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#175 - Emma Steele
430 Plays1 year ago
High concept romance writer, Emma Steele is on the podcast this week chatting about her debut novel and going through each step of her publishing journey from writing her first manuscript all the way through to the launch of her debut, "The Echoes of Us".
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Transcript
Introduction and Ad-Free Listening
00:00:00
Speaker
To listen without ads, head over to patreon.com slash rightandwrong.
00:00:04
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:06
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:07
Speaker
Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
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Speaker
You can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
00:00:15
Speaker
So it's kind of a gamble.
Welcome and Author Introduction
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
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On today's episode, I am joined by a debut novelist whose first book is coming out soon as of us recording this, but will be out by the time it airs.
00:00:31
Speaker
It's Emma Steele.
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, welcome.
00:00:33
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Hi there.
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Nice to be here.
00:00:35
Speaker
Great to have you.
About 'Echoes of Us'
00:00:37
Speaker
Always good to start these things off with a sense of you as a writer and what your writing is about.
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So let's talk about the novel, your debut, Echoes of Us.
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Speaker
Tell us a little bit about it.
00:00:48
Speaker
Okay, so it's set in Edinburgh and it's been dubbed as a sort of time traveller's wife, times with a one day kind of romance mystery.
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And it's about a couple, Jen and Robbie, who are driving home one night in Edinburgh.
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And this is after Jen's been mysteriously away for several months.
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And just before a truck hurtles into them, Robbie is thrown inexplicably back into her memories.
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And he realizes that she's got a secret and he's got to figure out the secret before the truck hits them and try to save both their lives.
Genre Focus: Romance or Mystery?
00:01:30
Speaker
The way you phrased it where it's like, he has a split second to figure out this thing.
00:01:35
Speaker
It's like, well, the time is really confusing this, but it is fantasy realism.
00:01:39
Speaker
Like you say, like time traveller's wife.
00:01:43
Speaker
Is romance the core kind of essence of this or is it more on the thriller side?
00:01:49
Speaker
I would definitely say it errs more towards the romance side of things, but actually I really wanted it to have quite a big mystery element in it.
00:01:58
Speaker
So the book sort of opens almost with a question to be answered right at the end.
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And I really wanted that to kind of, I don't know, keep the suspense going throughout the whole thing and keep the pages turning.
00:02:13
Speaker
So it's probably more mystery than I intended, but it's mainly a romance, I would say.
00:02:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:22
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:02:23
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Because that, the, I've had a lot of psychological thriller authors on and when they pitch the book, it's always like, but so-and-so has a secret and will this person discover this secret?
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Will it like tear them apart or whatever?
00:02:35
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So like it has that kind of essence of a kind of thriller, a real page turner.
00:02:39
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But yeah, as you said, it is romantic at its core.
Emma's Writing Journey Begins
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Speaker
as I mentioned, this will be out, but this is your debut.
00:02:46
Speaker
You've kind of done this now once and this, by this I'm talking about the publishing journey.
00:02:52
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Um, and it's been a while, I think since I did like a full kind of start to finish on the podcast with someone.
00:02:58
Speaker
So I thought it'd be quite fun if we, if we did that, if we sort of went back.
00:03:03
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Um, I think so the, the best jumping off points probably, um,
00:03:08
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When did you decide to write a novel in seriousness, in earnest of being like, I'm going to write a novel and I'm actually going to try and get this published?
00:03:19
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I think, well, it's a bit of a funny one.
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I think it was after I'd had my first child.
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And unlike my second one, who really was a terrible sleeper, my first one actually, she really was a terrible sleeper, did not sleep at all.
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But my first, amazingly, did sleep.
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And so I kind of found myself in the evenings quite a lot.
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And I'd always wanted to write.
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So I just decided, you know, I'll start writing something.
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But even when I actually sat down to write inverted commas seriously, I don't think I knew what I was actually writing.
00:03:54
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I just started writing a psychological thriller at the time.
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It was kind of what I was reading.
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Speaker
And I remember just thinking, I'll just write a psychological thriller story.
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And, you know, some stuff came out, but actually...
00:04:09
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It started forming into a proper book.
00:04:13
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And I think that was the moment that I was like, you know, I've actually got, you know, 80 to 90,000 words here and I could technically submit this to editors kind of thing.
00:04:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:25
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So it really started out as more of a sort of outlet, like a hobby thing.
00:04:30
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Okay.
00:04:31
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That's obviously not this book, unless it changed dramatically.
00:04:36
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It's not this book.
00:04:38
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That was the very start of
Feedback and Improvement
00:04:40
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the journey.
00:04:40
Speaker
And it was, I mean, I will say I had always wanted to write a book, but I think in that first moment, as you say, it was an outlet.
00:04:47
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It was a creative outlet.
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I just really wanted to write and get lost in a story of my own.
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And so, yes, it started as that sort of hobby thing, but I could feel it turning into something that I wanted to, I guess, achieve something with and turn it into something else.
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Yeah.
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So did you take that novel, that manuscript, did you submit that to agents?
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Did you try and take that to the next level?
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I did.
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I did go through the whole experience of submitting at that point, which looking back, I mean, it was quite exciting and sort of entertaining.
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Speaker
And I basically, you know, got a friend to read through the whole thing and edited it.
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And I mean, looking back now, I think it was...
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It was still quite a messy book, but I went through and I checked through all the agents.
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I made my lists and all that kind of thing and then started sending out in batches.
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The good thing was that...
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I did start to get some full requests, which was, I can still sort of remember the first full request I got.
00:05:55
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And I, I think I sort of did that thing where you're like, Oh, it's amazing.
00:06:00
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Okay.
00:06:00
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That's great.
00:06:01
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I'll just publish a book and you know, that's fantastic.
00:06:04
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And that's wonderful.
00:06:06
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Um, and then, you know, sent off the full manuscript and then you kind of get that silence.
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You're like, well, what happened?
00:06:17
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And no one tells you, you know, what happened to the manuscript or what's going on or anything like that.
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So I sent out, you know, I got, I think I maybe got kind of five full requests in total, which was really good looking back.
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And I also got some great... I mean, that's amazing.
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It was great.
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That's the thing.
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It was exciting.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
00:06:36
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But then you kind of get the, you know, the notes coming back in over the course of months.
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And I could basically just see that I had more work to do.
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Like I saw what I'd written was, was working, but actually I was like, do you know what?
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I've got, I've got work to do at this point.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Was that, did you get a lot of feedback from those full requests?
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I got some and actually, I mean, I won't say the name, but actually quite a big agent was particularly helpful.
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And I always kind of think, do you know, they are actually, they're just super nice people.
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And a lot of them are, you know, very constructive of what they say.
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And she was kind of giving me tips and pointers and, you know, bigger twists and keeping things concealed and all that kind of thing.
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So, yeah,
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I did kind of, I felt quite buoyed after it, even though I hadn't, you know, obviously got an agent out of it.
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I felt like, you know, I knew what to do next, if you know what I mean.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I think being, you know, doing submissions is like a scary thing.
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It's like daunting.
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Getting full requests is like a huge achievement in and of itself because you know that you're onto something that you know, that there is something here, whether that's in the manuscript itself or like more likely just in kind of the way that you write and the way that you're kind of looking at telling these stories.
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So like you should take that as like a big achievement and that
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it is, it should be encouraging, even if nothing comes from a full request.
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Yeah, I definitely think that.
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And I always say that with, you know, if anyone, any writers speak to me about their experiences, and I know other ones that have, you know, gotten so far with the process and then had a rejection.
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I'm like, no, no, you're on the right track because, you know, it's a journey.
00:08:26
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You've got to keep going on it.
00:08:29
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Yeah.
00:08:29
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And it's, it's the, uh, it doesn't matter if you get a hundred no's, all you need is one yes.
00:08:34
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:35
Speaker
Exactly.
Writing Evolution and Creating 'Echoes of Us'
00:08:36
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That's what you're fishing for there.
00:08:38
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So was it the, was it the next novel that, that, that landed you an agent?
00:08:44
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No, um, but...
00:08:48
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It was certainly a journey.
00:08:49
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Um, but basically at that point I went off and started doing writer groups and I wrote, um, I wrote a rom-com actually, uh, which is weird because I, you know, I read them sometimes and I watched them, but, um, it wasn't my main genre.
00:09:07
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I would say that I tend to read, but I kind of felt like writing one and, um, um,
00:09:13
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applied to the Curtis Brown course with it and got onto that with it.
00:09:17
Speaker
So in a way it kind of helped me go to that point, but actually every time I sort of started working on it or writing stuff, um, I kept sort of writing sort of sad material into it.
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And I'm sure my chitter at the time was like,
00:09:34
Speaker
I'm just not sure, you know, what's, what's happening here with this story.
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And I was like, I don't know if I, if I know what's happening with this story either.
00:09:44
Speaker
And I felt like everyone else, they were all so lovely on that course, but they were all much more certain of their stories, if you know what I mean.
00:09:51
Speaker
And I was sort of, yeah,
00:09:53
Speaker
flailing around trying to figure out what was happening.
00:09:57
Speaker
And then you kind of have that opportunity on that course to submit things at the very end to the agents.
00:10:05
Speaker
And I kind of, I don't know, it was that kind of moment you get where I was like, you have to kind of pull up your socks and just do it or...
00:10:14
Speaker
not do it.
00:10:14
Speaker
And so I had this idea, the idea for the echoes of us.
00:10:20
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And I actually took the male character from the rom-com Robbie, because I really liked him, but I kind of thought he would be better served in a sadder story.
00:10:31
Speaker
I didn't know why.
00:10:32
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And I took him and I wrote an entirely new intro with the new concept idea.
00:10:39
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And submitted that to the agents and basically got interest from them on that.
00:10:47
Speaker
And then I think by the end of, you know, a couple of months on, I'd had a few agent offers on that kind of opening that I'd done for the Echoes of Us, basically.
00:10:59
Speaker
Oh, that's so interesting.
00:11:01
Speaker
So you sort of...
00:11:03
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:11:03
Speaker
Your first novel was a psychological thriller and then you jumped over to rom-com and actually where you've, where you've ended up is almost sort of on a, like a weird, oddly shaped spectrum between those two things.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:11:21
Speaker
I don't think I entirely knew what I was doing.
00:11:24
Speaker
And I think that's the truth of it.
00:11:25
Speaker
A lot of writers don't like, I know, I feel like I know so much more about the market now, which is also maybe quite confining in a way, but actually at the time, you know, I was just writing what I wanted to write.
00:11:39
Speaker
And if I felt like writing it, I did.
00:11:41
Speaker
Um, and the echoes of us sort of came out of it, I think.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
I mean, I do think that's the healthiest way to write is like, just write what you are feeling, write what you want to write.
00:11:56
Speaker
You never want to fall into the trap of writing to what you think the market wants, because especially nowadays it's moving so quickly.
00:12:04
Speaker
What's popular now, there's no guarantee it will be popular in six months time.
00:12:08
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:09
Speaker
I think it's far more dangerous to write to market than it is to, I guess, kind of write from the heart and kind of write something raw, I think.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I've spoken to and heard about authors who have written a book, which at that time was not popular.
00:12:29
Speaker
So, I mean, it's happening quite a lot right now, actually, because
00:12:32
Speaker
I keep, I haven't seen it yet really, but I keep hearing rumors and like people are saying, yeah, vampires are back.
00:12:38
Speaker
A lot of people who wrote lots of vampire stuff about 10 years ago, but that, but because that was all being dominated by Twilight and then no one wanted vampires, uh, that none of that got published, but a lot of people are sort of bringing out those manuscripts again.
00:12:53
Speaker
Oh, I love that.
00:12:54
Speaker
It's, you know, it's
Choosing the Right Agent
00:12:55
Speaker
hot again.
00:12:55
Speaker
So it's like, Oh, totally.
00:12:57
Speaker
I still have grand plans for that, that old psychological thriller.
00:13:00
Speaker
I feel like,
00:13:02
Speaker
I've got a way to make it work now.
00:13:04
Speaker
So it may make itself out the door at some point.
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
So you mentioned that you actually had multiple agents asking about this, what has become your debut novel.
00:13:19
Speaker
I know the title changed at some point, but echoes of us.
00:13:23
Speaker
What's the kind of situation?
00:13:26
Speaker
Because you've submitted before, you kind of know that where it's like the power dynamic is very much in the agent's hand.
00:13:33
Speaker
What happens when you're in a situation where multiple agents are now saying to you, oh, I really want to represent this?
00:13:40
Speaker
I mean, it was, again, it was that really lovely, exciting sort of time.
00:13:45
Speaker
And I feel like with writing, there's so many long periods of time where nothing happens.
00:13:52
Speaker
And it's quite dull, really, or not dull, you're just sitting writing by yourself.
00:13:56
Speaker
And then that I kind of had that sort of lovely week of having phone conversations with multiple agents and
00:14:05
Speaker
It was very strange, if I'll be honest, because, you know, I'd gone through the runner before.
00:14:10
Speaker
I'd had a lot of rejections.
00:14:11
Speaker
I knew what it felt like to be rejected.
00:14:14
Speaker
And suddenly you have people that really, really want to work with you.
00:14:19
Speaker
And yeah, it was just super, super nice.
00:14:23
Speaker
But I think...
00:14:26
Speaker
I kind of had that legal hat on at the same time of being like, actually, you know, it is a good idea to have conversations with people and see if they're aligned to what you're thinking you want to do with the book and if you get on with them and all that kind of thing.
00:14:43
Speaker
Uh, so that was, it was a good week I would say.
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say so.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, because it's such an important relationship.
00:14:51
Speaker
It's like one of those weird kind of business relationships that sort of goes beyond business.
00:14:55
Speaker
There is...
00:14:56
Speaker
a camaraderie between an agent and an author for like a successful, um, working relationship where I think it does need to sort of, you need to be on the same creative wavelengths as well as, um, like all the business kind of side of things.
00:15:11
Speaker
When you have two or three agents who have said, yeah, I would like to represent you.
00:15:16
Speaker
How does it, do they all sort of come to you with like a pitch of like, this is how I think we can like market the books.
00:15:22
Speaker
This is the direction I think we could take some edits in.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think they'd all kind of said roughly what they would sort of pitch it as, which was kind of erring towards the book club kind of, but, you know, women's fiction romance sphere.
00:15:42
Speaker
So in that way, it was all quite similar and had lovely conversations, if I'm honest, with all of them.
00:15:50
Speaker
But at a certain point, you kind of have to look at
00:15:53
Speaker
there's a, there's a gut feel as well, I think about what you want to do.
00:15:57
Speaker
And I think at a certain point that decision kind of takes over.
00:16:02
Speaker
I think, I think my dad always says that as well.
00:16:05
Speaker
He always says, um, you know, if you've made your decision inside yourself, just at a certain point, go with it.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:13
Speaker
It's the Jack Kerouac thing of like first thought, best thought.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:16:18
Speaker
what, what was it ultimately?
00:16:19
Speaker
Was it, was that the thing that ultimately made you sign with, um, Tanner and Simons?
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was a gut feel.
00:16:26
Speaker
It was a gut feel in, in many ways.
00:16:28
Speaker
I just felt, um, you know, if you looked at the books that she had taken, I knew that, you know, she'd done brilliant commercial things with them and she just had a brilliant commercial head about her.
00:16:41
Speaker
And
00:16:41
Speaker
And actually, at a certain point, that's what an author often needs, because you're kind of sitting there in your creative space, you know, kind of making art.
00:16:51
Speaker
And then you just need someone to kind of help you mold it and get it to the right position and then position it in the market and work.
00:17:02
Speaker
Just all the things that she was saying to me really made me feel like she was sort of going to take it and look after it, if you know what I mean.
00:17:10
Speaker
And, you know, and almost get that sensible agent hat on it where I think authors are all sort of.
00:17:18
Speaker
running around a bit, came up sickly sometimes.
00:17:22
Speaker
And then the agents were like, no, no, okay, we're going to just, you know, package it up and, you know, kind of sharpen it and make it punchier and all that
Collaborative Editing Process
00:17:32
Speaker
kind of thing.
00:17:32
Speaker
And I think that's really what I needed someone to do at that point.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:37
Speaker
I think authors are on the whole creatively driven, whereas what you need the agent to do is to have a creative appreciation, but to be business driven.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yes, exactly that.
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:49
Speaker
So something that I've heard from authors and agents who've been on the podcast as well is, like we said, it's a very important relationship between an agent and an author.
00:18:00
Speaker
And obviously when you're first kind of signing with someone, you don't know them that well.
00:18:05
Speaker
So yeah,
00:18:06
Speaker
you do, like you say, very important to have those meetings and to like talk with someone because like everything could be good, but like you also, there is like an element of you need to get along.
00:18:15
Speaker
You need to be seeing things eye to eye, like on the same wavelength.
00:18:20
Speaker
Um, so did Tanara say things, was there a sort of like setting expectations?
00:18:29
Speaker
Was there like a warning to you where she said, look, this is great.
00:18:31
Speaker
I think we can do great things with this, but
00:18:34
Speaker
there's a lot of work that we need to do.
00:18:36
Speaker
Did she ever like say anything along those lines to you?
00:18:39
Speaker
I was just laughing there because I think even the side book I just did, we've done five rounds in it.
00:18:45
Speaker
So I'm like, there's definitely been a lot of work.
00:18:50
Speaker
So yeah, so she definitely,
00:18:52
Speaker
She's really good in that, you know, she'll keep, she'll keep going and keep critiquing and editing.
00:18:59
Speaker
Well, not editing, but critiquing and suggesting edits until it hits a point where you can tell that she's happy with it, if you know what I mean.
00:19:08
Speaker
And I think the more you work with someone, the more you sort of start to understand when they've hit that point, because I've definitely had times where I've
00:19:18
Speaker
Again, I think I've, you know, I think the book is in a good position, but actually there's still something that's niggling at her.
00:19:27
Speaker
And I fully trust her on this basically, which I think is incredibly important that she will tell me when it's clicking and when she's kind of getting that, I don't know, that kind of it's done feeling.
00:19:44
Speaker
And I think it's a really...
00:19:48
Speaker
cool sort of part of the process and particularly more and more as you go on, I think working with an agent, um, that you really start to understand when they've kind of got that feeling about the book.
00:19:59
Speaker
And then that's exciting for me as well, because then I'm like, yeah, it's, it's the right time for it to go out basically.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's a sort of, it's sort of like a chain, I guess, where you're kind of editing it, you're writing and editing to try and get it good enough for your agent, who is going to say it's good enough when they think it's good enough for an editor.
Handling Submissions and Rejections
00:20:23
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:20:25
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:20:25
Speaker
And that's before, you know, it's even gone to editors as well.
00:20:29
Speaker
Well, exactly.
00:20:30
Speaker
It's running a gauntlet with them.
00:20:32
Speaker
But the agent, I always, they know the market.
00:20:35
Speaker
They are having these conversations with the editors.
00:20:38
Speaker
And so no matter what me or my mum or anyone else thinks about the book, you know, you have to have, you have to be able to trust your agent that they know what's working out in the market at the moment.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:53
Speaker
And as you say, like as much as you edit it, you're then going to be put with an editor and a publisher and you're going to have to do a whole round of new edits.
00:21:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
All over again.
00:21:04
Speaker
So like, uh, when I speak to people outside of publishing, I have to like qualify, qualify these things where it's like, okay, so there's like two kind of separate rounds of submissions.
00:21:12
Speaker
There's, there's authors submitting to agents and then there's agents submitting to editors.
00:21:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:21:19
Speaker
How did you find the process of just being kind of the author and you're not really, you're like on the periphery, but you're not really in the loop so much when your agent is submitting to editors.
00:21:34
Speaker
How did you find that kind of sitting and waiting process?
00:21:36
Speaker
Because I know people who tackle in different ways.
00:21:39
Speaker
I know people who tell their agent, look, I don't want to hear anything unless it's good news.
00:21:43
Speaker
And I know other people who are like, I want to hear every single thing minute by minute.
00:21:47
Speaker
Tell me what's happening.
00:21:49
Speaker
I think, well, I'm quite an anxious person anyway, at the best of times.
00:21:54
Speaker
So I will say it was, you know, I find the whole thing very anxiety ridden, but it is just now part of the process you kind of have to go through.
00:22:05
Speaker
But I will say, you know, you can...
00:22:08
Speaker
just ask for what you need in a way from them so i really wanted to you know see the full pitch that's going out and see the list of editors and i think that sort of thing is really helpful so then before it even goes out you sort of you you have a rough idea of what they're doing where it's going what's going to be in that email and and then yeah basically you know you
00:22:31
Speaker
I would sort of check in probably quite quickly to see how it's going.
00:22:36
Speaker
But actually, I think it's just a completely natural response.
00:22:40
Speaker
I think most authors would be strange if they weren't sort of sitting there refreshing their emails and waiting for something to come through.
00:22:50
Speaker
So yeah, it's definitely a process, I would say in itself.
00:22:55
Speaker
You know what I think it is?
00:22:57
Speaker
I'm thinking of my friends who are authors who have that kind of agreement where they're like, don't tell me anything unless it's good news.
00:23:03
Speaker
They are not debut novelists.
00:23:07
Speaker
And I think that could be the big difference there.
00:23:09
Speaker
They've had one or two books out already.
00:23:11
Speaker
So they're like, I know how this works.
00:23:14
Speaker
Just don't tell me unless it's good news.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm probably, maybe I am a sucker for punishment because I do like to, I do like to have the full vision, I would say.
00:23:26
Speaker
So, you know, I have, I've seen rejections on books and I've read them, read them all through.
00:23:31
Speaker
And I like to know what they're calling out as well, because part of me also thinks that
00:23:36
Speaker
The whole thing is a process and you learn, you also learn from each book that you do.
00:23:43
Speaker
I think, you know, it's quite incredible.
00:23:45
Speaker
I would say if your very first book is the best book you ever write and actually for future books, you kind of want to keep building on what you've learned across the years.
00:23:54
Speaker
So I'm probably, I like to know most of the information is what I would say.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:01
Speaker
I feel like this might be inherited from your work as a lawyer and needing to have all the data.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:09
Speaker
I'm like, tell me everything so we can actually deal with the realistic situation as it is kind of thing.
Title Change and Market Fit
00:24:16
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:24:18
Speaker
Um, and just before we, we get past the, into the next bit, which is about like, I was going to ask you about promotion and stuff like that.
00:24:27
Speaker
I did notice speaking of edits, uh, mentioned it before.
00:24:31
Speaker
I think it was in the bookseller announcement when you got the deal, the title was originally the places between.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yes, it was.
00:24:40
Speaker
When did that change?
00:24:41
Speaker
So that was interesting, actually.
00:24:43
Speaker
It was the places between for a long time, actually.
00:24:47
Speaker
And a lot of it is to do with, you know, he goes through various places, actually, in the memories.
00:24:52
Speaker
So it does sort of work for the book.
00:24:55
Speaker
But actually...
00:24:56
Speaker
When, as part of my Weird and Wonderful journey, my lovely editor at the time at Welbeck, she left Welbeck and then there was another editor who came in who was also very lovely.
00:25:11
Speaker
And she just kind of thought that the title maybe didn't.
00:25:15
Speaker
maybe wasn't quite right for the market it was going to sit in and actually it might be nicer to suggest that there was a little more romance in it I think was the idea and actually I'm really pleased with the title now you know I feel like it goes really well with the book and the kind of the memory the echo memories and that sort of thing so it kind of I think worked out for the best really
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:25:41
Speaker
That was going to be my guess.
00:25:42
Speaker
I was going to say, was this genre related?
00:25:45
Speaker
Because I think The Places Between is a lovely title if you know what the book is about.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yes, I think that's the thing.
00:25:52
Speaker
Because otherwise, I think there's a TV show that's sort of a similar sort of name.
00:25:57
Speaker
And I think it's about traveling.
00:25:59
Speaker
So I can understand that.
00:26:01
Speaker
And actually, there is traveling in the book.
00:26:02
Speaker
But then I can totally see this is all part and parcel of learning about the whole industry as I've gone along is you do have to, at a certain point, try and figure out roughly which market you're supposed to be in.
00:26:17
Speaker
Because that will make things easier, I would say, longer term.
00:26:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:22
Speaker
And I think Echoes of Us is like, if you were to tell someone that's the title of the book, the title of the story, for me at least, I would be like, okay, if I were to guess, this is romance, but this is also like drama.
00:26:37
Speaker
This is not necessarily like, this is not a rom-com.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:41
Speaker
You know, yeah, I think it definitely does that.
00:26:42
Speaker
The places between
00:26:44
Speaker
I know what the book is about.
00:26:45
Speaker
So I know that it makes sense.
00:26:46
Speaker
But also like, if I didn't know what the book is about, I could be like, Oh, is this like a, one of those weird Neil Gaiman kind of fantasy?
00:26:53
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:26:54
Speaker
Totally.
00:26:55
Speaker
And I think that editor in the nicest possible way, it was like, yeah, I think we'll just, we'll just throw around a few other ideas here.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:03
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's a nice one in the end there anyway.
00:27:06
Speaker
So last question before we get onto the desert island, this is your debut.
00:27:11
Speaker
You've, you've not done the whole kind of marketing promotion cycle for a book releasing before.
00:27:18
Speaker
Where sort of, I guess you're kind of warming up to it at this point.
00:27:21
Speaker
How are you finding it?
00:27:23
Speaker
Do you know, it's kind of two ways.
00:27:26
Speaker
I think at the start of the whole promotion thing, I was, again, quite nervous and sort of felt like I didn't totally know what I was doing because it's a very different skill set to creative writing.
00:27:38
Speaker
I think then suddenly you're getting a promotional hat on and doing lots of weird and wonderful things.
00:27:45
Speaker
But I think one thing that I've...
00:27:49
Speaker
you know, enjoyed is, is actually that I do really like talking to people and I like being with people.
00:27:55
Speaker
And so actually in a way, after all that isolation of writing, I'm now kind of going out and about going into bookshops and, you know, doing podcasts and radio bits and, um,
00:28:08
Speaker
Like I do actually think it's really good fun.
00:28:10
Speaker
And I think if you can look at it that way, rather than something that's a chore, then that's really helpful, I would say, because I love talking about books.
00:28:21
Speaker
So it's, you know, that's all great.
00:28:24
Speaker
That's all great to me.
00:28:25
Speaker
So I think now that it's just before publication, I also feel...
00:28:30
Speaker
you know, I've done what I can do.
00:28:33
Speaker
And so much of it is down to the publisher at the end of the day.
00:28:36
Speaker
So in a way you can kind of relax at a certain point and just go, I'm just going to enjoy the launch and, you know, kind of keep doing everything that I'm doing.
00:28:46
Speaker
But actually, you know, there's only so much control you've kind of got over the whole thing.
Reader Interpretation and Author Inspirations
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker
Wow.
00:28:52
Speaker
That's, I mean, you said you were an actress person, but that's like one of the healthiest approaches to a debut book coming out.
00:28:58
Speaker
I've heard.
00:28:58
Speaker
You should probably see me a few days before the launch and I'll be freaking out again.
00:29:05
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that's, it sounds like you're, you're, you know, what else is really fun about it, um, is you get to talk about this thing that you just made up in your head to a bunch of people, uh, which normally would make you seem insane, but because you've written a book about it and it's coming out.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
It is.
00:29:25
Speaker
It's so funny because I met up with my lovely host that's going to host my launch in June.
00:29:33
Speaker
And she was so lovely.
00:29:35
Speaker
And she'd written down all these lists of themes in the book where she'd sort of read through it.
00:29:40
Speaker
And it was just so, I just had this weird moment where I was like, wow, like someone's picking out scenes out of like a story again I've written in my head.
00:29:50
Speaker
And actually it was a really nice feeling just, you know, knowing that it was kind of getting out into the world and it was becoming its own little piece in itself, I think.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:30:01
Speaker
It kind of takes on an existence of its own, like once it's out of your hands and kind of set free.
00:30:09
Speaker
What's that famous quote where it's like, um, the author starts a story and the reader finishes it.
00:30:14
Speaker
That's exactly it.
00:30:15
Speaker
And I think people just take what they want from it and they connect in with it where they want to connect in with it.
00:30:20
Speaker
And you've kind of got no, again, no control over that part of it.
00:30:24
Speaker
Well, that's great to hear that you're, you're, it sounds like you're thriving, uh, as it's getting, as it's getting released.
00:30:31
Speaker
So I'm excited for it to come out and, uh, for you to be able to just kind of chat about it and hear what everyone thinks about it.
00:30:36
Speaker
It sounds really cool.
00:30:38
Speaker
And that brings us to the desert island.
00:30:41
Speaker
So Emma, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:30:49
Speaker
I always think I sound like a broken record about this book, but I absolutely love it.
00:30:53
Speaker
And it's After You'd Gone by Maggie O'Farrell.
00:30:57
Speaker
And I'm just obsessed with it.
00:30:59
Speaker
It's one of these books that I kind of keep around all the time.
00:31:02
Speaker
And if I'm in a slump,
00:31:04
Speaker
if I just pick it up and read a passage from it, it literally gives me creative inspiration again.
00:31:09
Speaker
And it's that sort of thing where it's part romance and part mystery.
00:31:14
Speaker
And I think in some senses it inspired parts of the echoes of us.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I think I like the idea if I was on an island, if I'm reading a book that's got lots of different parts to it, if you know what I mean.
00:31:28
Speaker
And I feel like there's almost like,
00:31:30
Speaker
five stories in one in that one, because it flits around between various women in the family.
00:31:35
Speaker
So, and actually a guy as well.
00:31:38
Speaker
So yeah, that's definitely the one I would want to have with me, I think.
00:31:43
Speaker
I mean, it's a great choice.
00:31:43
Speaker
Maggie O'Farrell is just writing on an incredible level of quality and almost in her own league.
00:31:51
Speaker
I know.
00:31:52
Speaker
Some of the books that she comes out with.
00:31:53
Speaker
I literally feel like her words are, you know, they're just sort of all poetry really.
00:31:58
Speaker
And, and also I love the fact, I just feel like I've heard her speaking about, or maybe read about it before, how she writes.
00:32:04
Speaker
And I think she goes out to this Victorian greenhouse without, you know, internet or anything and just,
00:32:10
Speaker
kind of writes.
00:32:11
Speaker
And I can so imagine that sort of writer that they're, they're literally not thinking about markets or anything like that.
00:32:18
Speaker
They're, they're literally just writing the words that are coming
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:32:21
Speaker
out of them.
00:32:21
Speaker
And I think that's really good inspiration for people.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:25
Speaker
It's like the Cormac McCarthy was a similar kind of thing.
00:32:29
Speaker
He would just live like completely remotely, never did interviews or anything like that.
00:32:33
Speaker
And then every book he releases is like a international, critically acclaimed, like one of the greatest works of all time.
00:32:39
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
It's just some guy living a sort of hermit life out in the middle of nowhere.
00:32:46
Speaker
I just find it fascinating.
00:32:49
Speaker
Amazing.
00:32:50
Speaker
Awesome.
00:32:50
Speaker
Well, that's a great choice.
00:32:51
Speaker
That's a really, really good choice.
00:32:53
Speaker
Next up, we're going to get into some more crafty stuff with writing stuff, planning, pantsing and inspirations, specifically in the form of music playlists, one that I found on Emma's website.
00:33:06
Speaker
But that will all be in the extended cut, which you can get as a Patreon member at patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:33:15
Speaker
Awesome.
00:33:16
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Emma, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about your debut novel, Echoes of Us, which is going to be out by the time this airs.
00:33:25
Speaker
It's been awesome chatting with you and hearing all about your journey and experiences in publishing.
00:33:29
Speaker
Well, thank you very much for having me.
00:33:31
Speaker
And it's been lovely, lovely chatting books.
00:33:33
Speaker
I love chatting about books and crafts and everything like that.
00:33:37
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Emma is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at EmmaSteel85 or on Instagram and Facebook at EmmaSteelAuthor.
00:33:48
Speaker
To support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and follow along on socials.
00:33:53
Speaker
Join the Patreon for extended episodes ad-free in a week early and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:33:58
Speaker
Thanks again, Emma.
00:33:59
Speaker
Thanks to everyone listening.
00:34:00
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next episode.