Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ghosts, Cheesesteaks & Forgotten Cemeteries: Offbeat Philly’s Wild Side with Fayge!
6 Plays6 hours ago
What do Victorian tea parties, buried skeletons under Philly sidewalks, and kosher cheesesteaks have in common? Public historian and founder of Offbeat Philly, Fayge, joins Jo to talk about the quirky, hidden, and jaw-dropping side of Philadelphia’s history. From guiding ghost-curious tourists past forgotten graves to designing historical adult coloring books (yes, really), this episode is a deep dive into the fun, freaky, and fascinating world of Offbeat Philly.
🎨 Learn how Fayge crafts tours that balance fact and flair, why graveyards are everywhere, and which Philly cheesesteak actually counts.
👟 Whether you're into dead presidents or vegan cheesesteaks, this one’s a walk through time—with laughs, drama, and sandwiches.
🔗 Find Fayge at OffbeatPhilly.com and the full pod at https://linktr.ee/Emptyhell
🧨 KEY MOMENTS:
- 2:00 — What makes Offbeat Philly... offbeat?
- 3:45 — Dead bodies under the sidewalks of Old City
- 5:50 — The mystery of the missing container of bones
- 10:00 — Arlington Cemetery’s hidden origin story
- 14:00 — The most unusual tour request ever
- 17:00 — The truth about Philly cheesesteaks (and sesame seed rolls?!)
- 22:30 — “Phillies Forgotten Dead” tour breakdown
- 30:00 — Why tour guides are really storytellers
- 34:30 — Fayge’s dream: coloring books for history nerds
- 36:20 — Where to find Offbeat Philly and get weird
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
00:00:07
Jo
everyone, Joe here, and today we've got a special What's Crackin', because all the way from Offbeat Philly, we've got none other than Faga.
00:00:19
Jo
Faga, pleasure to have you here.
00:00:20
Fayge
Hi, awesome to be here.
00:00:22
Jo
Now, full disclosure, I love Philadelphia. I'm guessing that's where Offbeat Philly is located. Awesome.
00:00:29
Fayge
Yes.
00:00:30
Jo
far so So far, so good. All right, good, good, good. So what brings you into Offbeat of the Offbeat Philly? What's what's Offbeat about it?
00:00:38
Fayge
I mean, so I have, all edits so Offbeat Philly is a historical events conference. I'm a public historian and we run events, tours, birthday parties, whatever, whatever people want to do, living history, uh,
00:00:52
Jo
Wait, a birthday party? Somebody actually said, you know what I want for my birthday? A history tour.
00:00:56
Fayge
but we're working on telling that it's, uh, we're going to the princess party market with Victorian tea parties.
00:01:02
Jo
oh Oh, my gosh.
00:01:02
Fayge
Yeah.
00:01:03
Jo
I want one.
00:01:04
Fayge
Yeah. So, yeah.
00:01:05
Jo
I want one.
00:01:06
Fayge
So the, the original plan had been to really focus on tours because I come out of tourism.
00:01:10
Jo
Right.
00:01:14
Fayge
That's what I've done for a decade.
00:01:16
Jo
Smart.
00:01:17
Fayge
And then, you know, the political situation got a little more complicated. And I know, right?
00:01:23
Jo
There's a political situation in the United States.
00:01:27
Fayge
I know nobody's heard of it. It's very, very under the radar.
00:01:30
Jo
and rock You have to be like, be really subscribed to news for this one. Yes.
00:01:34
Fayge
Yeah. So, yeah so it's a result. There's tourism is down. And so... I sort of have been pivoting to focus more on the events.
00:01:47
Fayge
So now we're just sort of doing everything all at once at the same time.
00:01:48
Jo
right.
00:01:50
Fayge
And it's chaotic, but it's fun.
00:01:52
Jo
Fun and chaotic.
00:01:53
Fayge
That didn't answer your question at all.
00:01:53
Jo
This sounds like a...
00:01:54
Fayge
So yeah, offbeat, the original concept is that compared to other tours in the city, I focus on the lesser known stories.
00:02:03
Jo
So not the Rocky statue.
00:02:05
Fayge
I mean, I'll take people to Rocky statue if they want.
00:02:08
Jo
That's the only thing I know about Philadelphia right now.
00:02:12
Fayge
I actually was over there recently. But yeah I don't usually go over there. I'm not a history person.
00:02:18
Jo
So weird, this might be a weird question because might've hallucinated this. I think the Eagles won the Superbowl this year. I believe that's what happened.
00:02:26
Fayge
Oh my God, I don't know. Yes, i think I think they did.
00:02:29
Jo
Did that increase your business tourism to see like during that time and people are like there for the Superbowl, but you know, it's like a one day event. So
00:02:38
Fayge
There were some people. But it's it's and the cold time of years, which is our sort of our off season.
00:02:40
Jo
to see the whole thing. Yeah.
00:02:44
Jo
Yes.
00:02:44
Fayge
But we do tend to see people coming in for football games and baseball games. Like there's people who like travel around. They're like deadheads, but for baseball.
00:02:55
Jo
Oh, cool.
00:02:56
Fayge
And so when we have a game in town, usually there's a little bit of an update.
00:03:02
Jo
That's awesome. And that's amazing. I like i know the football, and football I know the Super Bowl wasn't played in Philadelphia, but I was saying like they're watching it live in the bars because, and people probably came there even though they live in Philadelphia at all.
00:03:13
Fayge
Yes.
00:03:17
Jo
They probably came there just because of the the parade afterwards, stuff like that. So when you're
00:03:21
Fayge
Parade's one word for it. yeah good
00:03:23
Jo
Yes. There you go.
00:03:25
Fayge
We do also have a parade in addition to the riot.
00:03:29
Jo
It's a two for one. Come for one, stay for the other.
00:03:30
Fayge
Yeah.
00:03:31
Jo
It's all good.
00:03:32
Fayge
Yeah. I don't
00:03:33
Jo
So what's the weirdest place you've been for Offbeat Philly? What's the weirdest place?
00:03:37
Fayge
know about for offbeat Philly, because honestly, most of what we do with offbeat Philly is take normal stuff and we get weird. But actually, good the we have a tour that's my favorite thing right now, which is called Phillies Forgotten Dead.
00:03:53
Fayge
And we go around Old City, Philadelphia, which is where like Independence Hall, Declaration of Independence, all that stuff happens.
00:03:57
Jo
Really?
00:04:01
Fayge
And we basically stand like in the middle of random sidewalks. And I talk about how there's very likely dead bodies under our feet, and the story of that community that buried their dead there that is now underneath concrete.
00:04:14
Jo
Wait, that community being mafia community or like a different community?
00:04:17
Fayge
no, like church communities. Like, the the one that's in the middle of a sidewalk is Seventh-day Baptist.
00:04:19
Jo
Oh, I was like.
00:04:23
Jo
Okay.
00:04:23
Fayge
But...
00:04:23
Jo
I thought it was like more like they lost him in the concrete building.
00:04:27
Fayge
No, that's Jersey.
00:04:28
Jo
Okay. I was like, oh my gosh, that's really dark of you.
00:04:29
Fayge
Yeah.
00:04:31
Fayge
No, no, no.
00:04:32
Jo
Yeah, this is...
00:04:32
Fayge
i i mean I mean, there is a perpetual question where Jim and Hoffa is, but...
00:04:35
Jo
Show me if Fingers is here.
00:04:36
Fayge
of
00:04:39
Fayge
But no, these are just, you know, churches bear had a churchyard and then they sold the land and didn't move the bodies for whatever reason.
00:04:46
Jo
oh
00:04:49
Fayge
i first got interested in it because a couple, before the pandemic, like in 2017, I think that might be wrong.
00:04:50
Jo
Right.
00:04:55
Jo
Yeah, that's...
00:04:55
Fayge
and It's around that time.
00:04:57
Jo
Yeah.
00:04:58
Fayge
A developer started digging to build condos and they were going to add this very deep parking structure to it because there's no parking in the city. And when they, you put the augers in and took them out, there were like human skulls and stuff.
00:05:16
Fayge
And it's a bit of a long story, but where it ended up is some archeologists volunteered their time and they were given one week to dig up as much as they could.
00:05:28
Jo
one week.
00:05:28
Fayge
And the, the development is there. They only got about 10% of the cemetery. But the cemetery had, what had happened was in the 19th century, the church had paid somebody to move the cemetery and then they just didn't.
00:05:39
Jo
Yeah.
00:05:44
Jo
They moved it. They moved it all right.
00:05:45
Fayge
Yeah.
00:05:46
Jo
They moved the money from their account to their account.
00:05:47
Fayge
Yeah, so there's like 3,000 bodies there. so they Yeah.
00:05:49
Jo
Yeah. So in one of these houses, is there a small little blonde girl whose TV comes on? Because I think I heard this story Yeah, all the guys.
00:06:00
Fayge
You tell I'm not a horror fan, so like, what? Oh, right. That's a... but
00:06:04
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:06
Jo
but i was like, I'm thinking like, what did they do? Okay. they You said they gave them a week for the archaeologists. So after that week, is this kind of like back holes just go by, just take the bodies and dump them somewhere else?
00:06:18
Fayge
Yeah. I mean, what's left of the bodies is very delicate because this is from the 18th century, so just the process of, like,
00:06:29
Fayge
the augers and the back hose and stuff is, yeah.
00:06:30
Jo
They're just going to destroy most of it. Yeah.
00:06:32
Fayge
So, but yeah, it's mostly probably in some builder under I-95 somewhere or over in Jersey.
00:06:37
Jo
Oh, God.
00:06:39
Fayge
and the, the developer didn't have, the thing is the developer didn't have to do it. Like it's easy to be kind of down on the developer and trust me, I am there with, I am there too.
00:06:45
Jo
Just
00:06:49
Jo
being nice. They're like, I'll give you a week. That's nice.
00:06:51
Fayge
But like legally they didn't have to do anything.
00:06:53
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:55
Fayge
Like once the police said that they had no interest,
00:06:55
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:58
Fayge
That was, yeah.
00:06:58
Jo
but yeah The body's been dead for like forever. and
00:07:01
Fayge
Yeah, there's, it's about, I believe 70 years is the mark when they become historical instead of like potential murder scenes. So.
00:07:10
Jo
My gosh. And but we do laugh about this, but you're right. I laughed at like they gave him a whole week. Oh, wow. It's actually one week of holding up development is a lot. Like he's losing money on that week.
00:07:19
Fayge
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:21
Jo
And yeah.
00:07:21
Fayge
And he also, so that they could move as quickly as they could, he, took all the graves that they dug up and put them in containers and just stored them and until they were done.
00:07:32
Jo
wow
00:07:33
Fayge
Now, one of the containers went missing. So that's another pile of bodies someone's gonna find in 15 years.
00:07:41
Jo
I hate to see my eBay auction now.
00:07:42
Jo
It's and ah ah so surprise box. What's this one? oh
00:07:45
Fayge
Yeah, or all the other all the other bodies that were dug up at that time have now been reinterred at Mount Moriah Cemetery in West Philadelphia, where they were supposed to be in the first place.
00:07:54
Jo
Right. Now it's, that is, I see now the offbeat, because normal just a sidewalk, the offbeat about it is like the, oh my God, what just happened here?
00:08:03
Fayge
Right. And all old cities have this. Like, old cities and dead bodies are just like, go together.
00:08:10
Jo
I'm thinking of all the old cities I went to.
00:08:11
Jo
I'm like, oh my God, you're probably right.
00:08:13
Fayge
Yeah. Because what happens is people vary. There's been a lot of, over time, there's been a lot of changes in opinions about whether or not it's safe to live near a grave site.
00:08:18
Jo
Right.
00:08:25
Fayge
Because grave sites originally were in like the center of the city because churches were a lot times the first institutions to be
00:08:32
Jo
major thing there.
00:08:33
Fayge
to be there.
00:08:34
Jo
Yeah.
00:08:34
Fayge
And then they, so so as the city grows, generally the more wealthy people move to the edges because once you have electronic, electric trolleyes and stuff, they can eventually, yeah.
00:08:44
Jo
and okay And cars, once the cars come by, especially the suburb city. Yeah.
00:08:49
Fayge
Yeah, well, that's that's even more so, yeah. But I'm thinking you like 19th century and the,
00:08:51
Jo
Yeah.
00:08:53
Jo
Okay.
00:08:57
Fayge
yeah, and they, so it was mostly poor people and they noticed poor people were getting sick. more often than wealthy people. And the reason for that is they were living in slums with like human excrement in the streets, but they thought maybe it might be because they were living near dead bodies.
00:09:11
Jo
Oh,
00:09:14
Fayge
So a lot of the cemeteries were moved. But, you know, contractors are contractors. and they Sometimes they take your money and don't do what they say they're going to do in whatever year it is.
00:09:26
Jo
oh
00:09:27
Fayge
so
00:09:27
Jo
absolutely. it's It's a perfect storm of we've all known places where the church just kept reusing graves. Just kept reusing them.
00:09:35
Fayge
Oh, that's totally normal. Yeah. I mean, they do that at Arlington.
00:09:40
Jo
Knock on wood.
00:09:40
Fayge
like It's marked. It's not like a secret. Like, it's...
00:09:42
Jo
Oh, wait, have you been to Arlington before? Because I've been, it's huge.
00:09:45
Fayge
Arlington National Cemetery? Yeah.
00:09:47
Jo
It's absolutely freaking huge.
00:09:48
Fayge
Oh, yeah.
00:09:49
Jo
It's like, it's mind-boggling.
00:09:49
Fayge
Oh, it's so big.
00:09:51
Jo
It should not be this big. If ever like really want to do an anti-war statement, go to Arlington.
00:09:54
Fayge
And it's... Like, it's not like the only... Like, we have military cemeteries all over the city.
00:09:58
Jo
Right.
00:09:59
Fayge
All over the city. All over the country and the world.
00:10:00
Jo
the The country, yeah.
00:10:03
Fayge
Like there's one in France, I think. might have in
00:10:05
Jo
Oh, I've seen the unknown.
00:10:06
Fayge
But just from world wars, we'll have, wherever we fall, we'll have little military sanitaries.
00:10:07
Jo
don't know.
00:10:11
Fayge
But yeah, no, I've been to Arlington. The offbeat thing, I guess, about Arlington is got it got its start as a plantation owned by Robert E.
00:10:21
Fayge
Lee, Confederate
00:10:23
Jo
Of course it would.
00:10:25
Fayge
General. And one of his buddies, huh?
00:10:27
Jo
I missed that part of the tour.
00:10:30
Jo
I think I missed that part of the tour when I was there. By the way, this is where the plantation slaves lived.
00:10:35
Fayge
No, they still have the house.
00:10:35
Jo
What?
00:10:36
Fayge
If you climb up there, like they'll they'll tell you. it's not but it's But it is not the main focus of the place.
00:10:44
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:46
Fayge
Yeah, and what ended up happening was school friend of Robert E. Lee was really mad that Robert E. Lee had gone towards the Confederacy instead of the Union. And so he started burying Union dead in his wife's rose garden.
00:10:59
Fayge
And yeah.
00:10:59
Jo
That's how it started? Oh my God. That's brilliant. I didn't know. Honestly, God didn't know that. And that's amazing.
00:11:05
Fayge
Yeah, it's wild and big legal battle once the war was over. And eventually the government bought it from the family for not very much money.
00:11:17
Fayge
Because at that point, we've been using it a military cemetery for so long that like, what was he gonna do?
00:11:23
Jo
We already buried everyone there anyways. So you... so you Now, correct me if I'm wrong, that's in Virginia, not Philadelphia.
00:11:32
Fayge
Yes. Yeah, so in tourism in the United States, one of there's a couple of like things that when they happen, like all the tour guides walk there because there's a lot of work.
00:11:44
Fayge
And one of those is Washington, D.C.
00:11:44
Jo
Right.
00:11:46
Fayge
in the spring because a lots a lot of school groups send their eighth grade class to Washington, D.C.
00:11:52
Jo
Of course. It's close enough, yeah.
00:11:54
Fayge
And I don't do that anymore. But that was how I got started in tourism.
00:12:01
Jo
That's very cool.
00:12:01
Fayge
And even though I'm in Philly, was considered local because I could take the train, you know, like it wasn't like there were people coming in from like Colorado and to do the season.
00:12:09
Jo
Yeah.
00:12:13
Jo
Wow. No, like I was to say, you're close enough to kind of make it not quite a commute commute, but it was decent probably.
00:12:20
Fayge
Yeah. i mean, they, they, they get me hotel, but yeah, it's not a bit, it's like a two and a half, three hours depending.
00:12:27
Jo
Yeah. but And on a train, those trains are actually, well, okay. The last time I did one of those trains was like 2000, 1990.
00:12:32
Fayge
I mean,
00:12:33
Jo
You know, yeah
00:12:37
Fayge
Those the same cars.
00:12:39
Jo
but the probably, at least when I use them, but they're probably the same.
00:12:39
Fayge
i
00:12:42
Jo
but Okay. Yeah. They're the same thing now. Yeah.
00:12:44
Fayge
It's a little rough, but I have a great love for our attempted train system here in the United States.
00:12:44
Jo
That's yeah.
00:12:50
Fayge
Actually taking it at the end of July to go to Atlanta, which takes overnight.
00:12:54
Jo
Really?
00:12:56
Fayge
With train travel in the United States outside the Northeast corridor.
00:12:56
Jo
wow.
00:13:00
Fayge
Northeast corridor runs the way it should. Anywhere else, you just have to accept that you're going get there when you get there. And just enjoy the journey.
00:13:09
Jo
Yeah, I'm from Vegas and our high-speed bullet train from Vegas to Los Angeles has been promised for the last 25 years.
00:13:17
Fayge
Yeah.
00:13:17
Jo
One day.
00:13:17
Fayge
It's tough.
00:13:18
Jo
One day. It's not even l LA. We're just like Bakerfield. Just get us to Bakerfield. Just get us halfway there.
00:13:22
Fayge
Yeah.
00:13:23
Jo
But yeah, you're right. It's like the infrastructure and trains used to run the West and now it's kind of like, you know.
00:13:29
Fayge
I mean, it built the West.
00:13:31
Jo
Yeah, really.
00:13:31
Fayge
Such as this.
00:13:32
Jo
So you...
00:13:32
Fayge
The current iteration of the West is supposed to correct way to say that.
00:13:36
Jo
When you're doing this in Philadelphia, have you ever gotten an offbeat, no pun intended, or maybe I guess nowadays, ever get of an offbeat request? Like you just didn't expect this as like, why would you even want, you know, what was that like?
00:13:52
Fayge
I mean, yes. the The one that just came to mind, have a tour on Thursday that's for just a private person who contracted me.
00:14:02
Fayge
But it's he he wanted to mix together two of my tours.
00:14:02
Jo
Cool.
00:14:07
Fayge
So I have one that's America's most historic square mile, I call it, the that broken bell and other colonial nonsense.
00:14:16
Jo
Right. wow.
00:14:17
Fayge
And then there's another one that is way more specialized. It's about the first Jewish Commodore of the Navy. And that's because the Navy's birthday is this year.
00:14:26
Jo
wow
00:14:26
Fayge
And so there's going to be a bunch of people coming to celebrate that. And it this and individual from their website it was very clear to me that they were Jewish from a rather Orthodox community.
00:14:40
Fayge
And so I didn't think it was that weird. i'm like, sure, of course he would want to put these together, you know, see like the big things like Liberty Bell and then also learn some Jewish history in Philadelphia. But I talked to him on the phone.
00:14:51
Fayge
He's adorable. He's great. He, in fact, is on his way out of that very interior community and wanted to learn history, but also wanted to like have those like whatever those quintessential Philly experiences were.
00:15:07
Fayge
And he said, i always like to go get food. And this is a very, for I am also Jewish, so very fraud in Judaism.
00:15:13
Jo
Yes.
00:15:13
Fayge
What can and can you eat? There's a lot of debate about it. and But he came community where it's very, very, very strict. Like you don't even eat somewhere where there is not kosher food, even if you're not eating kosher food.
00:15:27
Fayge
Like it's just, it being there, it's too much. And so I'm sitting here thinking, Philly's known for cheesesteaks.
00:15:35
Jo
yes i was like,
00:15:35
Fayge
I know this guy's on his way out, but there's on your way out and then there's having cheesesteaks, right?
00:15:41
Jo
Welcome to my land.
00:15:41
Fayge
It's not as bad as like shrimp cocktail, but like, it's getting there. And so i he said, you know, hes is Philly known for anything? This is how insular's community is.
00:15:52
Fayge
He doesn't know this.
00:15:53
Jo
Oh, wow.
00:15:53
Fayge
And I said, well, I mean, cheesesteaks.
00:15:58
Jo
It's literally named after it.
00:15:58
Fayge
And he says, yeah.
00:15:59
Jo
Yeah.
00:16:00
Fayge
And he goes, Perfect. And so I'm really looking forward. I think that's, who I think that tour is going to be wild um ways I cannot predict.
00:16:10
Fayge
And those my favorite offbeat things.
00:16:10
Jo
Now,
00:16:10
Jo
I love that.
00:16:12
Fayge
is They usually happen on, on the fly. And that's what I love about it. Cause I honestly, when it goes the way supposed to, it gets really boring.
00:16:19
Jo
No, and then that's the greatest thing. When you're doing a tour group, it's live. It's actually and audience participation moment.
00:16:25
Fayge
Oh
00:16:25
Jo
It's the interaction, the mixing of betweens of it, right? And I have to ask now, i have to follow up because i can't get a good, feel okay.
00:16:29
Fayge
oh yeah.
00:16:35
Jo
I've had great Philly cheesecakes, but in Philadelphia. Outside of Philadelphia, most people go to Subway and order that and like, oh, give me a Philly.
00:16:47
Jo
I said cheesecake. Cheese steak. Wow. I'm just thinking of two things at once.
00:16:49
Fayge
That happens all the time.
00:16:50
Jo
I just combine together.
00:16:51
Fayge
I've had people argue with me about it They're like, no, it's cheesecake. And I'm like, listen, you can go find a cheesecake, but it's not going to be particularly special.
00:16:56
Jo
New York cheesecake. Philly cheesesteak. Come on, man. Get them together. So what is it? Does it bug you? What goes into best Philly cheesesteak? Besides, obviously, because everyone else thinks the subway version is the only version, and that's, of course, like saying McDonald's is a burger.
00:17:11
Fayge
Yeah, well...
00:17:14
Fayge
Like, God, if you're on subway, at least go to, like, Mike's or something.
00:17:17
Jo
Yeah. Yeah, it's like Taco Bell is not a taco, guys.
00:17:19
Fayge
But... So the thing that makes the Philly cheese steak the Philly cheese steak is the bread.
00:17:25
Jo
Yes. I need a nose.
00:17:27
Fayge
And it's it's an Italian-style roll that is sort of structurally... Has enough structural integrity to hold this, like, gloppiness, but isn't so hard that, like, you're crunching.
00:17:37
Jo
Yeah.
00:17:41
Jo
Yeah.
00:17:42
Fayge
and it The traditional place to get these is Amorosos, which used to be in West Philadelphia, now it's in Jersey. But you know every morning, hundreds of trucks, I'm sure, leave Amorosos to go to all the various restaurants in the area.
00:17:56
Fayge
There is a little bit. Sometimes during the pandemic, someone decided that you needed sesame seeds on the rolls, which has never been the case.
00:18:04
Jo
What? Really?
00:18:05
Fayge
And all these places are using these sesame seed rolls. And i don't know if it's like a supply chain issue. Like I don't, but everybody's just acting like that's normal. And I'm like, this is not normal.
00:18:19
Fayge
I saw somebody talk about it on TikTok and I was like, yeah, yeah, they are doing that.
00:18:19
Jo
That's bizarre.
00:18:24
Fayge
like, they're like.
00:18:24
Jo
Yeah, no, that's the first time I heard it.
00:18:26
Jo
It must post-pandemic. Maybe it was because with the Big Mac buns issue they had during the pandemic, they just had to overproduce Sesame Street they'd like to get them away.
00:18:36
Fayge
Maybe. mean, get them cheaper or whatever.
00:18:38
Jo
Yeah, i was like, what do think of these away?
00:18:38
Fayge
But. but the But the bread is what makes it. And the the steak and the cheese, people get really up and arms about cheese. Whatever. Get whatever cheese you want. Like, have a good time.
00:18:51
Fayge
The traditional, they used to say cheese whiz, now it's, yeah, that's, well, but it's it's like a, it's like a, can't like a jug, like it's like a jug of cheese.
00:18:54
Jo
I was going to say cheese whiz. It's a spray can.
00:18:59
Jo
the The dip can. Yeah, the dip can. Yeah.
00:19:03
Fayge
it's, it's totally normal also to have American cheese.
00:19:03
Jo
actually
00:19:06
Fayge
I'm more of an American cheese than a cheese list, which has, it's more, it's the same thing, just different structure.
00:19:11
Jo
Yeah, one's little more gelatinous.
00:19:13
Fayge
yeah. And, uh, then there's provolone. It's a totally reasonable thing to get.
00:19:19
Jo
Now, onions and peppers or no?
00:19:22
Fayge
Yeah.
00:19:22
Jo
Yeah. yeah Yeah.
00:19:24
Fayge
Yeah.
00:19:24
Jo
And you're right on that.
00:19:24
Fayge
I mean, I like, yeah.
00:19:24
Jo
Yeah.
00:19:26
Fayge
And I, I'm very cheesesteak, like, uh, neutral in a lot of ways. Like I think you're like, if you like it and it is got cheese and some sort of meat and the, and a roll, like have a great time.
00:19:44
Jo
I want some Doritos with mine.
00:19:45
Jo
like crunch it inside. But little, I don't know. I'm weird. I'm weird that way, man. I'm weird.
00:19:47
Fayge
I mean, listen, do it as like, there's a, there's a, there's a place in my neighborhood that sells vegan cheese steaks that have like broccolini on it and stuff is delicious.
00:19:56
Jo
but Is it? I'll try it.
00:19:59
Fayge
It's so good. but it's They use seitan. Seitan is anything else besides seitan does not work.
00:20:04
Jo
Oh, yeah. It's the gluten off the Yeah.
00:20:06
Fayge
Yeah. But that said, there are limits. I had somebody on tour once who came and said, I got a cheesesteak. And I was like, cool, what'd you get on it? Because we'd had this whole conversation.
00:20:19
Fayge
And he goes, it's chicken with barbecue sauce. And I'm like, okay.
00:20:24
Jo
Huh?
00:20:25
Fayge
that's not i'm very like live, let live with the cheesesteaks, but that's not a cheesesteak.
00:20:30
Jo
A hoagie at best. Yeah, like, no, that's just like a sandwich, man.
00:20:31
Fayge
It is... That's a hoagie. Like...
00:20:34
Jo
Yeah, you at best man.
00:20:34
Fayge
I feel like at a certain point, it's not a cheesesteak anymore.
00:20:36
Jo
At best.
00:20:41
Fayge
You've removed too many of the things that make the cheesesteak.
00:20:41
Jo
I got one with cottage cheese. Yeah. Oh, my God. So, full disclosure, it's 1230 my time. Did you think about, you're talking about cheesecake this early in your day. Do you think, going to go on a podcast we're talking about cheesecake.
00:20:56
Jo
cheeses Oh, cheesesteak. My gosh.
00:20:59
Fayge
yeah You're not alone.
00:21:01
Jo
Oh my gosh. And I'm just dumb. That's what it is. Now, i think you're right though. That a is a hoagie B there is a wide variety. And now I do want to try the the vegan one. I'm turning vegetarian. So might as well try that.
00:21:16
Jo
So walk me through what is your best tour? You used to have tour packages. What are your best tour packages?
00:21:24
Fayge
That I have like on offer right now or
00:21:26
Jo
yeah
00:21:27
Fayge
Yeah, so it for people who are just like, I'm Philly, want to do the Philly thing.
00:21:32
Jo
Nice.
00:21:32
Fayge
That's the Broken Bell and other Florian Nonsets tour. You're going to see all of the big stuff. You're going to see Independence Hall, Bessie Ross House, the Liberty Bell, et cetera, et cetera. But you're going to get it from another perspective.
00:21:45
Fayge
And you don't have to be like really like knowledgeable about American history to get it. It's all woven in. I just had somebody from Taiwan the other day.
00:21:53
Jo
nice
00:21:57
Fayge
and they didn't know hardly any American history, but they still, like, they loved it. And so that's the sort of most standard one, but i I have to put up a little another thing for the Phillies Forgotten Day, because I love that tour. I had so much fun writing it.
00:22:14
Fayge
And it's it's always fun to give it, because you're standing in the middle of the sidewalk, and people are walking by like, what is that tour doing? Like...
00:22:23
Jo
Why are there dead people here?
00:22:25
Fayge
Why are they in the middle of the sidewalk? I didn't even fall over there, guys. up
00:22:30
Jo
but Right next to the bell. There's the bell.
00:22:33
Fayge
Yeah, but we're in the process of adding things.
00:22:33
Jo
The rock used to be this way.
00:22:36
Fayge
where We have an event coming up on the 18th of July at a new coffee shop in Old Kensington called Bubs. And it's to be roasting the founding fathers.
00:22:46
Fayge
So that'll be fun.
00:22:49
Jo
I dig it. Nice pun. Now, how do you write these? I'm guessing you have to write the tour. have to get the idea. then you have to write the tour itself. how What's your process for this?
00:22:57
Fayge
So when it's just me giving it, I you actually, no, regardless, it's if it's it's not just my general tour, which that one, I've just given it so many times that it was just, I just wrote it down.
00:23:00
Jo
Right.
00:23:13
Fayge
But for a a brand new tour, it starts with a lot of research.
00:23:19
Fayge
And because a lot of times I've learned over the years that there's a lot of stuff that I think I know.
00:23:19
Jo
Okay.
00:23:19
Jo
Yeah.
00:23:24
Fayge
that isn't always actually true because tour guides are notorious for telling stories that they genuinely think are true and are not. And so over the years I've picked things up from people or as a kid I went and saw the thing, you know, and so it's a lot of research makes for everything I think I know is actually accurate.
00:23:37
Jo
yeah
00:23:43
Fayge
And also just like, there tends to be ah some serendipity to it sometimes. Sometimes um like I'll be, I was researching a neighborhood and i came across a quote from the guy who gave me eulogy at Benjamin Franklin's funeral about how much he hated Ben Franklin.
00:24:00
Fayge
And so that's now part of the other tour. But once I feel like I've got a concept of the topic, then I sit down with a map and I just sit there drawing dots and
00:24:12
Jo
well
00:24:14
Fayge
You know, and do it on Google Maps now, but it's like a lot of like, oh, that's too far. Oh, that's a 20-minute walk. No, can't do that. That's cut. You know?
00:24:23
Jo
Like mapping it out.
00:24:24
Jo
Oh my God, i never thought about that. You have to actually have to map out how long it takes people to walk and factor that in.
00:24:29
Fayge
Yeah. and And in total, the amount of walking total. I have found that going over a mile and a half is just pushing it.
00:24:32
Jo
Right.
00:24:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:24:38
Fayge
Even a mile and a half is pushing it depending on the group.
00:24:40
Jo
Wow. this That's really cool. where'd you This might be a dumb question, but where did you learn how to do that? Is it through tourism? Yeah.
00:24:49
Fayge
Yeah, so I, how I really learned how to do it was doing these student tours because we we didn't write them.
00:24:53
Jo
Right. Oh,
00:24:57
Fayge
These are these massive, topic like I worked for like the Walmart of student tours, not letting people who are teachers guess which of those i worked for. but
00:25:04
Jo
right
00:25:05
Fayge
hu But we would get a a itinerary written by some women who may or may not know the city of Washington, D.C.
00:25:15
Jo
god
00:25:16
Fayge
And, you know, they have little things in their, in their, little guidelines that are like, you know, it takes this much, you know, they'll go into Google Maps and be like, okay, it takes 10 minutes to get from the White House to the Capitol.
00:25:28
Fayge
But that's not always actually how it works.
00:25:31
Jo
If you teleport.
00:25:32
Fayge
And the, I mean, it can go in the middle of the night.
00:25:32
Jo
Yeah.
00:25:36
Jo
Right. No one there.
00:25:39
Fayge
And so as the tour director, my job was to make the itinerary work. And so a lot of times there's a lot of puzzle pieces of, looking at it, actually, like, like a friend of mine just contacted me for a Philly one and I took a quick look at it and I was like, why are they having me spend three hours with the Rocky Steps?
00:25:58
Fayge
Like, that's not, no. And so, you knowing that, say, okay, well, that we'll just add in Logan Circle or we'll just flip these around so you do this in the morning and this in the afternoon or, you know, while at the same time having, there's always things that can't move.
00:26:01
Jo
Yeah.
00:26:14
Fayge
And so, like, moving everything around. So, you do that on the fly as a tour director. So doing it ahead of time and actually sitting down and like clicking stuff like that's, it's much easier because you can figure out what truly is the most efficient way to do it.
00:26:29
Jo
That's pretty cool. So you basically were battle tested on the, and I won't name any companies that I might know of, but the ones that say you get paid by tips and that's it. Is that one of the things?
00:26:40
Fayge
No, they hate us.
00:26:41
Jo
Okay. Like.
00:26:43
Fayge
You do get tips, especially with student tours because the expectation of tips with student tours is minimal.
00:26:48
Jo
Right.
00:26:50
Fayge
because usually it's like a teach kids that tipping a thing and so you end up with like you know a bag of the loose change yeah
00:26:57
Jo
Here's some donut powder.
00:27:01
Fayge
no because they you you get paid student tours adult tours you get paid a low it's kind of like sales like you get like a low and then yeah tips and yeah
00:27:09
Jo
Okay. A low wage. And then they assume you're going to make a tip to make it up. And hopefully you do. Otherwise you're paying taxes on what they assume.
00:27:17
Fayge
tips and or if it's a really like low end company, I don't mean that like in a value judgment, it's just the, you know, the cheaper companies ah might also be selling like extra things you can do.
00:27:30
Fayge
So like maybe a tour like mine, like this is the thing they, I, that's, you know, some companies do where the tour director can, can sell my tour for X number of dollars over what I'm charging them.
00:27:33
Jo
The
00:27:43
Fayge
And then they keep part of that.
00:27:46
Jo
at that you know that's the the weird world of tourism, it really unlocks a lot because a lot of people just go on a tour and they think, like wow, this person probably went on a tour once themselves and then they memorize some stuff.
00:27:57
Fayge
Some of them are like that. Oh
00:27:59
Jo
Yeah. And you've probably seen some yourself and I've, I've been on some fantastic ones that I've been on somewhere. i'm like, I pay for what now? And has anyone ever asked you the question that you're like, I cannot answer this.
00:28:12
Fayge
oh yeah, all the time.
00:28:14
Jo
How do you handle that?
00:28:14
Fayge
Like, depends on what the question is. So if it's like, what date did that happen?
00:28:17
Jo
Right.
00:28:20
Fayge
I'll say what I think is true and then I'll take out my phone and Google it. And this is this is controversial. But I am of the opinion, have dyscalculus, so dates just like, they don't stay in here.
00:28:31
Jo
Absolutely.
00:28:32
Fayge
I've got like the big ones, 1776, 1780, like some, you know, oh but like, if you ask me like when exactly Ben Franklin came back from London, don't know, man.
00:28:44
Fayge
like Like, I can give you maybe a decade if that's right. And I figure you should use all the resources you have.
00:28:52
Jo
absolutely
00:28:53
Fayge
And if the fact that you're taking out your phone and doing a quick Google search for date or if a guest does it, makes it so that people don't like your tour anymore.
00:29:03
Fayge
You're probably doing something wrong because you shouldn't be just walking with the people.
00:29:07
Jo
Yeah, it's
00:29:08
Fayge
Like you're supposed to be like doing interpretation or telling a story and performing it. There's a lot of stuff you do.
00:29:14
Jo
performance art.
00:29:14
Fayge
And like, if, if, if you're just spitting out dates and whatever, like you're feeling boring. Oh,
00:29:24
Jo
yeah but That's exactly it. I'm thinking of one, actually I'm thinking one from Oxford, and he was a theater major, and it showed.
00:29:31
Fayge
oh yeah.
00:29:32
Jo
It showed. I have zero...
00:29:32
Fayge
Neater people are great.
00:29:34
Jo
Yeah, I'm pretty sure was all BS. Like, really? And he would even give a little wink when he's saying stump stu some stuff. I'm like, oh yeah, no, that's BS. But the way he said it, the way he presented it, you didn't care. It was a story.
00:29:45
Jo
And remember parts of it.
00:29:46
Fayge
Oh, yeah.
00:29:46
Jo
You remember the the highlights, and that's what you do
00:29:49
Fayge
Yeah. And i i mean, it's like I, I'm not a huge fan like ghost tours, but I went on one once.
00:29:56
Jo
Great.
00:29:58
Fayge
It was so good. And part of why it was so good was the tour guide was also an excellent performer. And he actually told all those no-go stories and just did like a normal tour.
00:30:11
Fayge
But my guests, I was a tour director on that. My guests were delighted. They had a great time. Which I thought was hysterical because, again, this man was like, a ghost story. He told, like, one ghost story at the end.
00:30:22
Jo
Right.
00:30:23
Fayge
But nobody cared because it was fun.
00:30:23
Jo
But those are the best ones. yeah Those are the best ones. Those are the best factual story-based or about storytelling. Instead of like, yeah you know, we have to get all these things.
00:30:32
Fayge
Yeah.
00:30:34
Jo
I love it. Now, if I ask my guests always this, if you're going to give your younger self, which i means basically every moment in life besides this one, I'm going to say younger child to early teens self advice, what would it be?
00:30:52
Fayge
Oh my gosh.
00:30:55
Fayge
i The advice would give is to go out and like find information from people who are actually in the field that interested in and listen to it. made a lot of so like a lot of career and education choices that did not create a foundation for me to build upon for the things that up wanting to do.
00:31:21
Jo
Right.
00:31:21
Fayge
And in retrospect, I wish I had just done what i wanted to do in the first place.
00:31:26
Jo
That is, ah ah that's an amazing answer. It's the, the college guidance counselor is almost never right because they only went to school for one thing, college guidance counseling.
00:31:36
Fayge
Yup.
00:31:37
Jo
So how they talk about the rest of the stuff, we don't know, you know,
00:31:40
Fayge
Yeah. Like I say to people all the time, you know, people make fun of the humanities in general, but history in particular, as like, oh, what does a history major do? Like they're flipping burgers at McDonald's or whatever.
00:31:51
Fayge
Like us an English major, like people are always shitting on us.
00:31:53
Jo
Yeah. I was both. Yeah, I know. Okay.
00:31:57
Fayge
yeah But the the thing that people don't realize is there's more to being a humanities person than just like teaching college or like researching in dusty books.
00:32:06
Jo
Yeah.
00:32:08
Fayge
Like there's a lot of different jobs that exist in all of these fields. Like I know history,
00:32:13
Jo
Absolutely.
00:32:14
Fayge
but myself, like as a public historian, I didn't know that was a job. loved the History Channel a kid back when it was you know the Hitler Channel slash History of the Spoon before Ancient Alien.
00:32:23
Jo
Every once a while, Jesus. Hitler and Jesus channel. Yes.
00:32:26
Fayge
Yeah.
00:32:26
Jo
And Ozzy now.
00:32:27
Jo
Ozzy's got one.
00:32:29
Fayge
And I obviously knew people had jobs related to that because it existed, but like i I didn't really understand that there was more than just the History Channel.
00:32:32
Jo
Right.
00:32:38
Jo
Right.
00:32:39
Fayge
There's all these things that people who are historians can do that are related. And it's it's weird things too. like Usually it's an archaeologist, but historians get involved with this too.
00:32:52
Fayge
like Anytime like a new highway goes in, you have to do research on is there something potentially under the ground, which is a historian's job.
00:32:55
Jo
yeah
00:33:05
Fayge
And then archaeologists go in and see if they're right. Yeah.
00:33:11
Jo
That's amazing. So it's almost like city planning.
00:33:11
Fayge
yeah Yeah, I mean, there's just tons and tons and tons of stuff that you need a historian for.
00:33:14
Jo
Really?
00:33:18
Fayge
And it's, you know, i it's not as high paying as being like, don't know. I don't know what the high paying job is now anymore, to be honest.
00:33:28
Fayge
Back in the day, we would have said computer programming, but that ain't it anymore.
00:33:30
Jo
Yeah, I would say it's no longer that.
00:33:32
Fayge
Yeah, don't it. But at any rate,
00:33:33
Jo
it is What was the joke? We told everyone to go coding camp? Yeah, don't go to coding camp anymore, kids.
00:33:37
Fayge
it's, you know,
00:33:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:33:38
Fayge
of but at any rates you know There are jokes.
00:33:45
Jo
Yeah.
00:33:45
Fayge
It's not just the joke about flipping burgers.
00:33:48
Jo
No, find your passion.
00:33:48
Fayge
that there's anything wrong with that.
00:33:49
Jo
I think you're right.
00:33:50
Fayge
Yeah.
00:33:50
Jo
Find your passion and research your passion with the people that are in your passion, not the one who are naysaying the passion.
00:33:56
Fayge
Or even, though maybe people aren't naysaying. They still know.
00:33:59
Jo
Just don't know it.
00:33:59
Fayge
Like...
00:33:59
Jo
it is Yeah.
00:34:00
Fayge
Yeah.
00:34:00
Jo
they mean They could mean well, but just don't know enough.
00:34:03
Fayge
Yeah.
00:34:05
Jo
Awesome. Well, what are you doing next? what's What's the next biggest thing for Offbeat Philly?
00:34:13
Fayge
So the, we're so we're starting to do events, which I'm kind in the middle, but like the the future is I want to create,
00:34:18
Jo
Awesome. Yes.
00:34:25
Fayge
I didn't call it educational books. It sounds boring. I'll come up with a better word for it than that, but just sort of activity books and stuff for adults that also teach history.
00:34:35
Fayge
So like I made one page the other day because it was just in my head and I had to get it out of the,
00:34:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:34:42
Fayge
time that Ben Franklin was canoodling with his landlady. This was in London. and Teal, I always forget his name, but he's an artist. He's the artist.
00:34:52
Fayge
like If you think of like Founding Father image, that's him.
00:34:54
Jo
Yeah, it's all them.
00:34:57
Fayge
Whatever you thought of, that's him. He was a student at the time. if you I guess he just walked in. and i don't know he does that, but he does apparently. He just walks in and Ben Franklin's like having having a good time.
00:35:11
Fayge
And instead of doing what normal people would do, which is leave, he sat down and sketched it.
00:35:16
Jo
like he start I was like, he starts sketching it. Of course, of course he would.
00:35:18
Fayge
Yeah. Yeah. So that that page is a, a an interpretate, a coloring book style interpretation of that, of that.
00:35:25
Jo
Oh God. I love it. It's amazing.
00:35:28
Fayge
And, you know, so stuff like that, where it's like weird little stories that also have coloring or like Sudoku or whatever, know, those things.
00:35:32
Jo
Yeah.
00:35:37
Jo
But that that's great. And this was really needed. It's a way to get people interested in learning.
00:35:43
Fayge
Yeah, and also, like, I'm finding I started i started coloring again, and it's so much better than doomscrolling.
00:35:48
Jo
Yeah.
00:35:50
Fayge
Like, I'm trying to, if I am gonna, like, scroll TikTok or something, I just reach for my coloring one instead.
00:35:50
Jo
Yeah.
00:35:58
Fayge
And it's been great.
00:35:58
Jo
No, it's good therapy.
00:36:00
Fayge
Yeah.
00:36:00
Jo
It really is. It really, really is. It's the artistic mind saying thank you for a bit. Now, where can we find you in Offbeat Philly?
00:36:08
Fayge
The easiest place is probably my website, which is OffbeatPhilly.com.
00:36:14
Jo
Makes sense.
00:36:15
Fayge
Yep. And I'm in the middle of revamping that, but on there you can sign up for, like, the, I call it the monthly newsletter. It comes monthly or less.
00:36:28
Fayge
i I'm aiming for monthly.
00:36:30
Jo
Right.
00:36:30
Fayge
it's that you're not gonna You're never going get the every other day email from me. I don't have time for that.
00:36:35
Jo
No spam. We promise. No spam here.
00:36:37
Fayge
yes yeah
00:36:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:36:38
Fayge
If you're lucky, you might get an email.
00:36:40
Jo
It might even be.
00:36:40
Jo
Oh,
00:36:42
Fayge
So you can sign up for the email list and socials and whatever. I'm on Facebook and Instagram or whatever that's worth. yeah.
00:36:51
Fayge
and yeah
00:36:51
Jo
that's awesome.
00:36:52
Jo
That's awesome. And you know what? I have to say I had a lot of fun. i learned a lot. I learned about places I've been to. i learned about places I've been to and I knew about, but I didn't know particular things that you told me.
00:37:06
Jo
And that was just in our 30-minute chat. So I can't imagine how great your tours are because if I have a degree, I have actually degrees in like political science, in this stuff.
00:37:18
Jo
And I'm like, my God, i didn't know that. like Am i a slacker? i'm like, what the hell?
00:37:21
Fayge
It's all perspective. Like it's not, i mean, yeah, knowing the little tidbits is very helpful in those things.
00:37:27
Jo
yeah
00:37:28
Fayge
But like I have, I have a guy who works for me who's an actor they don't know all the like minutia, but they present the tour as I wrote it where it just sort of, it it has to do with the perspective that you're taking on the stories.
00:37:35
Jo
right
00:37:45
Jo
Well, i you know what? Next time I'm in Philadelphia, i was just there last week and I should have contacted you first. I will definitely take an Offbeat Philly tour. And if you want to take a tour as well, go to Offbeat Philly.
00:37:58
Jo
That's Philly like Philadelphia. I don't spell it.
00:38:01
Fayge
P-H-I-L-O-Y-N. Awesome.
00:38:03
Jo
Dot com. And Fega, thank you so much for your time. It's been brilliant chatting you. Again, I learn and it's an amazing thing. Thank you.
00:38:14
Fayge
Thanks. thanks Thanks for having me.