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Portable Worlds & Dumb Dares with Matt Henderson (Loke Battle Mats) | What’s Kraken
9 Plays2 days ago
Jo chats with Matt Henderson of Loke Battle Mats about building portable, erasable battle-map books, why modular tools beat bulky map tubes, and turning “players derailed my prep” into a feature. Matt also teases Loke’s party-at-the-table card decks—Deck of Many Insults and Dumb Dares & Silly Sidequests—plus the new Dungeon Designer toolkit for instant encounters and solo play. He shares his one-line advice to younger him: bet on yourself—be your own boss and set your destiny.
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🔑 Key Moments
- From wargame mats to erasable RPG map books you can throw in a bag.
- Why modular, two-book spreads beat single giant maps for fast session pivots.
- Built-in QR codes for matching digital maps (VTT/online play).
- Deck of Many Insults and Dumb Dares & Silly Sidequests: party energy inside the RPG.
- Dungeon Designer: scenery + encounter cards + mini guide = instant dungeons & solo-ready play.
- Design ethos: make tools they want as players/DMs; ship quickly, iterate.
- Advice to younger self: start your own thing—“put your money on you.”
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:08
Jo
Everyone, Joe here, and today is another Gen Con guest. That's right, I'm racking him up now. We've got none other than Matt Henderson from Loke Battle Mats. And, sir, I have to say I'm a huge fan of your work.
00:00:24
Jo
It's amazing.
00:00:24
Matt
Thank you very much. It was great to catch up and show you all of our ah new offerings at GenCon.
00:00:31
Jo
The ones you can show up because they sold out. i was there day two.
00:00:35
Matt
Yeah, well, I think we took enough this time. We've into problems at shows before where we have, we've misjudged it a little bit and run out like two days into a four-day show.
00:00:38
Jo
yeah
00:00:46
Matt
but It's a good problem to
Origin and Early Days of Loke Battle Mats
00:00:47
Matt
have.
00:00:47
Jo
yeah Exactly. Absolutely. And for those that don't know, you should all know about Loke Battle Mats. This is the stuff that it looks like is built by someone who plays games because it was.
00:00:59
Jo
Of all the things we wanted as a GM, like, oh man, i really wish I had this. And now you can. So what brought you to building your own Like basically building your own company.
00:01:10
Matt
um I think we originally started off doing wargaming products. So I've got a graphic design background, and um I did the large scale, sort of like six foot by four foot, um mats in, PVC, neoprene, all those sorts of things.
00:01:28
Jo
Really?
00:01:28
Matt
um But I tend to do more RPG and board game related things than wargames, which might just be a time issue. But having said that, RPG is not a light time game.
00:01:40
Jo
No. Yeah.
00:01:41
Matt
effort anyway. um But anyway, so um I ended up doing mats for RPGs. And we did a Kickstarter back in about 2016, 2017 for smaller scale mats.
00:01:51
Jo
wow
00:01:53
Matt
So the sort of things you'd get for war gamers, but for people doing RPGs. So two foot by two foot, two by four, that sort of thing. And it's around that time we came up with the the book idea.
00:02:06
Matt
And
Innovative Map Solutions for RPGs
00:02:08
Matt
fact, I still do. I tend to travel and DM quite a lot. So back then, I used to have like a big rucksack. I used to have like the big sort of like specialist sort of like roll map bag.
00:02:19
Matt
So you'd have like um um almost like a sword bag.
00:02:19
Jo
Yeah.
00:02:22
Matt
It'd be a three-foot tube bag to carry things around.
00:02:24
Jo
Right.
00:02:27
Matt
And yeah, just getting to the point where it's like you get there, and the players don't do what you're planning on yeah having set up for them. they did something else, you're like, oh, I've not brought that map because bringing two or three of them a bit of a pain.
00:02:42
Matt
And then you've got the wrong thing. And you you can always draw your own, um which, know, like nothing ever survives contact with the players in every situation.
00:02:46
Jo
Right.
00:02:51
Matt
So being able to draw is always good.
00:02:52
Jo
Yeah,
00:02:54
Matt
And I do have one to hand. So this we do a whole bunch of different versions and size of these things these days.
00:02:59
Jo
yeah I love these.
00:03:01
Matt
But this is kind of what started us as a company, really. And this is just a collection of locations for RPG use in portable format.
00:03:05
Jo
Really.
00:03:11
Jo
Right, and those are a ah race maps. Yeah?
00:03:14
Matt
They are erasable as well, yeah. So they're fully laminated for dry and wet erase.
00:03:16
Jo
Yeah.
00:03:18
Matt
And just to give an idea of the sort of number of things you get, it's just tons of spreads of scenes you can use.
00:03:21
Jo
I love it.
00:03:25
Jo
Yeah, and exactly.
00:03:25
Matt
and
00:03:27
Jo
and this is what you were describing. When you brought like all your maps, you almost have to have these big, like you said, the sword kit, obviously, the the big poster luggage, and it's bulky. And even if you're traveling, sometimes i go from the third floor to the sixth floor, and I don't want to roll these maps. I'm like, oh, man.
00:03:45
Jo
Like, I have one that's unruly thing. i'm like, I just say i had something that's small, portable. I don't like that. It's amazing.
00:03:52
Matt
Yeah, I think it's fair to say that all these things should be in your war chest. Don't not have a giant map because you've got a small portable one.
00:04:00
Jo
Right, absolutely.
00:04:01
Matt
that that i I think there's time and a place for all the different tools.
00:04:04
Jo
yeah Yes.
00:04:04
Matt
you know Choose the weapon from your arsenal. um But we'd like to expand your options there. Yeah.
00:04:11
Jo
And that's why I love, because if you only have that one weapon, and God knows that one rolled up white laminate paper has seen some share of battles over the years,
00:04:12
Matt
but yeah
00:04:24
Jo
But that's the only one I've got. You know, it was like that if I can't draw it out in this, well, well folks, if I ever forget one day to pack it. And that's the brilliant thing about your stuff. If you're going to conventions, you don't want to pack all that bringing to a convention. You want to buy stuff, bring it home.
00:04:39
Matt
Yeah, and we also tend to, especially on our sort of more core products, just put that little blank set in as well.
00:04:39
Jo
And this allows you to play.
00:04:45
Matt
So so you are still covered for traveling with the blank map.
00:04:45
Jo
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:04:48
Matt
You just happen to have an extra, in that case, 59 pages of other maps.
Product Versatility and Adaptability
00:04:54
Matt
So you've got lots of other options.
00:04:56
Jo
I love it.
00:04:56
Matt
and And that particular one, you know, it's got a tavern. It's got the ah the place where the ambush happens on the road. It's got the cave. It's just got a lot of very classic and encounter locations.
00:05:06
Jo
Yeah. Absolutely. And you can always re-image them. And there's no, the only limit to your maps is the limit of the imagination of the players in GM. Yeah.
00:05:16
Matt
Oh yeah, totally. And because we've got multiple products out there now in that particular sort of book format and range, they work with each other. So as soon as you've got two different books,
00:05:27
Matt
suddenly you can combine them and yeah like make a scene where you go from that tavern to that road.
00:05:31
Jo
Yeah, ah love
00:05:32
Matt
um And we we do a certain set which are, there' they're two book sets. I should have some behind me. So yeah, so these.
00:05:44
Matt
So this comes with two books in it. And let me just do that so two books will pop out.
00:05:47
Jo
Cool.
00:05:53
Jo
Right.
00:05:53
Matt
And these ones, you you basically you open them up, put them together. It's a bit tricky to do on the webcam, but you'd end up with like a two foot by two foot area that you can place them on.
00:06:01
Jo
Yeah.
00:06:03
Matt
And they're designed to be modular and interchangeable.
00:06:06
Jo
Oh yeah, no, I saw that Gen Con, they were so smooth. Like you just go from one to another. It's amazing how it's done.
00:06:14
Matt
yeah so on the back of this one, we tend to show the 2.2 spreads, try and get it without too much reflection.
00:06:19
Jo
Very cool.
00:06:19
Matt
Because almost everything we do is laminated, so it reflects like anything.
00:06:22
Jo
Right. 80 maps.
00:06:23
Matt
So, yeah, so that's lots of two by two combinations, but you can swap them around. So if you want a hedge maze going into like the castle kitchen, just put those two pages together. And as soon as people start to get more of these in their group, so, you know, not necessarily, you know, the DM has to get everything, but if the group's got two or three different products, suddenly I've no idea what the maths of it is, but your options go up and up and up with the more you have, because you can change what is happening on different pages.
00:06:52
Jo
Right, and and that's the great thing is not everyone's going to bring rolls of white laminate with them to draw their own maps out if if they're not DMs, but they can bring that.
00:07:06
Matt
Yeah, for for the traveling GM, absolutely perfect. and For the GM who's got their fantastic 3D modeled setup ready to go, and the players come around, they're like, we're going to get to like the Temple of Doom any moment now, but first we're going to go to the pub.
00:07:11
Jo
Right.
00:07:21
Matt
And it'll like, right, okay, well, we'll park that for a minute.
00:07:22
Jo
Right.
00:07:24
Matt
You can have this super epic boss battle after you've had your pub encounter. And you can just pop a map down, and it's ready to go, and
00:07:30
Jo
Right.
00:07:32
Matt
You don't have to railroad your players too much into the big setup you've got. you know
00:07:38
Jo
That's always it.
00:07:39
Matt
Or it's it's the other one where you've had the big fight and they've run through it in like an hour and you've got like four hours of session left. Then what else do you do? Yeah, that probably goes somewhere else.
00:07:48
Jo
The maps pop out.
00:07:50
Matt
Yes, yeah.
00:07:50
Jo
but That's, i mean, if you've ever been a game master, you know that the players, no matter how well thought out you had to encounter beforehand, the players will wreck it.
00:08:03
Jo
No matter what.
00:08:03
Matt
Yeah, well, I had the absolute opposite in the last session I ran.
00:08:06
Jo
Really?
00:08:07
Matt
um I'd spent a good few hours setting up the next things and got to that and they're like, oh, no, we're we're just going to nosy around this area for the entire session and re-go over what we did last week.
00:08:16
Jo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:17
Matt
It's like, oh, I could have done zero prep and everything would be fine because they just went back over it all.
00:08:24
Jo
yeah
00:08:24
Matt
But, you know, that's what they do.
00:08:25
Jo
That's what I want to do.
Expansion into Card Games
00:08:27
Jo
That's what they want to do. And so you go from the Loke battle mats into card games too, though.
00:08:34
Matt
Yes. ah We're always trying to sort of like think of things that we would want as basically the customer and then see if we're in a position to create, make and bring it to market.
00:08:42
Jo
Right.
00:08:47
Matt
So some of the classic examples of that are things like the wrapping paper. So there's always this conversation, every sort of light holiday season that keep your wrapping paper.
00:08:52
Jo
Yeah. Right.
00:08:56
Matt
It's got a one inch grid on the back it's like, Oh, well we can work with that. So we basically do wrapping paper that has a fully detailed dungeon battle map on one side and then a one-inch grid on the other.
00:09:07
Matt
So you can thematically gift to like, you know, your friends who are into D&D and whatever RPG stuff or to your gaming group.
00:09:07
Jo
Love it.
00:09:16
Matt
And then you can carefully take it off and use it.
00:09:17
Jo
That's amazing.
00:09:19
Matt
that We usually have like gift cards that we've got a QR code so you can get a digital copy so you can reprint it if you want to and things like that or use it in your online games.
00:09:25
Jo
Really? um That's very cool. That's very generous too. cause I know people who are just like, no, that's it. you know like Once you buy it, you're done. You ripped it too. Tough. tough
00:09:36
Matt
i The logistics of digital is so much easier than the logistics of physical products. We we tend to be as generous as we can be with the digital for people that have got the physical.
00:09:48
Jo
Really?
00:09:49
Matt
So a lot of our books will have a QR code on so that you can get those maps in digital format to use as well as using the book. And some places, yeah.
00:09:56
Jo
So you're saying like the actual laminate battle map books have a QR.
00:10:01
Matt
Yes, yes. So it's the more recent ones. Um, Do some of our products have QR codes inside the packaging and things like that? um But yeah, ah they'll generally say somewhere on them if they've got free digital content.
00:10:09
Jo
Interesting.
00:10:14
Matt
And we're we're moving more and more towards having that free digital content.
00:10:14
Jo
Very cool.
00:10:18
Jo
Yeah, that's...
00:10:19
Matt
ah So as well as the wrapping paper and stuff, we have moved, as you say, into card games.
00:10:20
Jo
I mean...
00:10:23
Jo
Yeah.
00:10:26
Matt
The first of which isn't so much a game as and accessory. So the deck of many insults. it's It's what it says it is.
00:10:34
Jo
Yes.
00:10:36
Matt
It's a deck of 50 sort of like tarot-sized cards. i though It's more than tarot there. This is a different deck, but they're these sort of sort of oversized poker sort of cards.
00:10:46
Jo
yeah
00:10:47
Matt
And there's just 100 fantasy-themed insults. So good for your vicious mockery bards, good for a GM that wants their NPCs to be quite insulting to their players quite frequently.
00:10:59
Matt
And just a fun thematic gift. um for those RPG groups.
00:11:06
Jo
With expansion pack, by the way, because I saw the one that it was for those are wondering the insults get they're good. we'll say PG 13 in America.
00:11:17
Matt
ah Yeah, that this yeah there there's there's a mix.
00:11:18
Jo
16.
00:11:20
Matt
ah I think it's got a 16 on it. But there' there's 50 cards have got some cursing and swear words on.
00:11:23
Jo
sixteen Okay. Right.
00:11:27
Matt
50 cards don't. So in theory, if you wanted to, you could split that deck and make it more child friendly.
00:11:33
Jo
right Or we can expansion pack and make it worse.
00:11:33
Matt
um Yeah, we're we're doing an even more Insulting Insults expansion pack crowdfunding on Backerkit in the fairly near future. So within about the next month or so, I think we are live on that.
00:11:44
Jo
Very cool.
00:11:46
Matt
um I'd have to find the link, but I i can share that later.
00:11:49
Jo
Absolutely. Yes.
00:11:51
Matt
um And along with that, we're also doing another expansion pack for something we released at Gen Con, which was Dumb Dares and Silly Sidequests.
00:12:00
Jo
yes
00:12:01
Matt
So this is more gamified than Deck of Many Insults is. um and it's essentially the concept here is that it's a party game, but it's not a party game that the players play with each other.
00:12:13
Matt
It's a party game that they play out as their characters inside the RPG session. So it's it's mainly whimsical things. It'll be things like, you know, narrate this combat like a sports coach.
00:12:20
Jo
Right.
00:12:24
Matt
um You know, give your weapons inappropriate names.
00:12:26
Jo
Love it.
00:12:28
Matt
think think Things like that.
00:12:28
Jo
I love it.
00:12:29
Matt
And it's to try and get a little bit of that actual play into character, comedy sort of light-hearted banter going and you can gamify it so when you do these dares you can kind of go to the gm or oh i've completed one of my dares i did the thing it said and people like oh yeah i think you did that well here's an inspiration here's some like xp for your character here's like um a re-roll token here's just a little something inside the game session to encourage you to sort of do the thing and the way that we suggest handing these out.
00:12:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:12:52
Jo
Right. Yeah.
00:13:02
Matt
So the deck of those, is there's 100 cards in there. So there's a big sort of range. And they tend to have a what the character should do. I've found almost one of straight away. So it'll be the character must, in this case, it's enthusiastically narrate your actions during combat.
00:13:18
Matt
And then there's an example. So the example here is, you know, stunning parry straight into a flawless cut knot. Topless. that Topless? Top notch, in fact. So I say top notch and flawless next to each other.
00:13:30
Matt
um And the idea is that the players at the table would each pick one card to give to another player. So say there's like five of you at the table, you'll end up with five cards. But it's five cards that have been picked by your friends.
00:13:30
Jo
You get
00:13:43
Matt
So if they know you don't like doing silly voices, they're, you know, know, my friends, they're like they're like, yeah, you're getting the pirate voice one.
00:13:51
Jo
you get this one out.
00:13:51
Matt
And yeah, yeah you you already start that interaction and engagement between the people at the table trying to, in theory, have fun or, you know, wind up their friends. as you hand the cards out.
00:14:03
Jo
Which is always fun. Like the winding up part is is part of the fun.
00:14:04
Matt
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if if you don't want to be fully wound up, maybe you let people redraw one of their own choice, you know, so they've got at least something they can do.
00:14:06
Jo
It is.
00:14:15
Matt
um But yeah, it's it's gone down very well with people that have um come to the shows.
00:14:16
Jo
Such a good idea.
00:14:22
Matt
We've done a couple of sort of test games and things with um random groups of it.
Prototyping and Production Process
00:14:26
Matt
And yeah, it it's just a fun concept that,
00:14:30
Matt
We've got the boat because we're a relatively small company as far as headcount goes. So if we have an idea, we can kind of I think that's got legs. Let's design it. Let's cost it. Let's bring it out.
00:14:41
Matt
And yeah I think Dumb Dares was a conversation in January and it's a live product by the middle of the year.
00:14:46
Jo
Right. I was asking, like so it goes from conversation concept. Sorry, was going to hit my mic. Conversation and concept in January to full print to where can sell it because we saw those in Gen Con in late July then.
00:15:01
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:03
Matt
Yeah, so i mean, the the the full sort of time scale of that is there's a large B2B sort of like trade show early in the year, sort of February, March time, which is where you'd show off your samples of things coming out and yeah even prototypes and things to get feedback from retailers and yeah the the industry people.
00:15:11
Jo
Right. Right.
00:15:23
Matt
So yeah, not the direct customers, but the people between us and those customers.
00:15:23
Jo
right
00:15:28
Matt
um And we had a coffer prototypes made up in time for that show. So concept January, prototype ready by end of February.
00:15:39
Matt
you know Feedback's good, that's a goer. Print run is go. Print run can take about a month or two for a deck of cards. Shipping, about a month or two. So we we were keen to get it in time for Gen Con and, yeah, managed it.
00:15:50
Jo
from
00:15:54
Jo
That's pretty decent. When you're doing the demo, I've seen, and and there's a probably more than one, but there's one pretty popular one in and Prague. There is a gaming cafe that almost specializes in playtesting and demos. And sometimes demos are just like, here's a sheet of paper and with like two drawings on it.
00:16:16
Matt
Yeah.
00:16:16
Jo
you know How intricate are your demos at this point when you're doing B2Bs?
00:16:20
Matt
ah We tend to be fairly fully for set. So yeah, like um there there are places which um for cards, you can get um custom set decks of cards done without having to go through the factory process.
00:16:32
Jo
and Okay.
00:16:32
Matt
um And for things like just printed matter, you can go to copy shops and things and get a relatively complete
00:16:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:16:41
Matt
plato I mean, obviously, it would never work for trying to sell it on because you'd probably spend 10 times the amount you'd even think of.
00:16:44
Jo
No, would be cost prohibitive.
00:16:48
Matt
But yeah you can go and get a couple of like ah manually printed out sheets. A deck of 100 cards can be printed local quite easy, that sort of thing. So yeah I think this deck here is actually one of the prototype sets because they tend to loiter my office.
00:17:02
Jo
Nice.
00:17:06
Jo
Yeah, because asked that because had my it's off camera right now, but we were doing a drinking game mixed with trivia and stupid challenges.
00:17:18
Jo
And the first place that you you actually make these cards, the really first place is kind of like in in North America, we have Staples. It's a print center. You would never want to print mass production because they cost like $25 a neck just to print out.
00:17:31
Matt
i mean the The very first um set for Deck of Insults, we printed a prototype set out before Dragon Meat, which is one of the the UK cons in November, December.
00:17:41
Jo
yeah Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:42
Matt
And for that one, we we kind of had them ready and quite a tight timeline. ah We went to a business card shop. And there's there's just one of the online ones. um And they will do a different term image on one side for each card.
00:17:52
Jo
yeah
00:17:56
Matt
So you're like, OK, well, we can get 100 cards done with a different image on. and delivered tomorrow. Right, okay, that's good. We can get that for the show. We can you know show people a prototype that's going to be very different to the final product, but the concept is there and people can see.
00:18:06
Jo
yeah
00:18:12
Jo
And this concept. so
00:18:13
Matt
yeah and it it looks professional enough. Yeah, it's not got its um finished packaging. It's probably not the finished custom size and things like that. But,
00:18:22
Jo
Right, but it looked like you printed it out in your laser jet from 1987. Yeah.
00:18:26
Matt
oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have seen that Proton before where people just get like a card sleeve, so like a clear sleeve, and put, you know, normally a trading card, game card, in to give it some solidity, and then just a piece of paper slots over the top.
00:18:34
Jo
yeah
00:18:43
Matt
So yeah, it feels like a card, but it very much looks like a prototype.
00:18:48
Jo
I think you're talking exactly what I did for my first prototype.
00:18:51
Matt
Yeah.
00:18:51
Jo
Those are exactly like the card sleeves that put them in like one's going to notice.
00:18:55
Matt
Yeah, and I think that works absolutely fine.
00:18:56
Jo
It works. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:00
Matt
if If you're going up to a level where you're talking and pitching these sort of things potentially, then you'll you'll move to like you know the nicer finished versions.
00:19:07
Jo
Yeah, those are play tests. Like the ones we were doing, those all, you know, the the first play test room at Gen Con, especially, and know, you get 1200 people touching your stuff.
00:19:08
Matt
Yeah.
00:19:15
Jo
You want something to wipe down
Design to Market Journey
00:19:17
Jo
easily.
00:19:17
Matt
yeah Yeah.
00:19:19
Jo
But
00:19:19
Matt
Yeah. a prototype, I think, is fine to have like you know chess and checkers pieces and, you know,
00:19:23
Jo
yeah. And that's the thing is like, so you're saying as long as you can imagine it, you could probably build it now.
00:19:25
Matt
boards, printers, staples, all that sort of thing.
00:19:33
Matt
Yeah, I mean, we've stuck mainly with um printed matter. So we've done books, we've done cards, we've done boxes, posters, lots of things. We've we've got good relationships with factories that do that type of product.
00:19:47
Jo
Right.
00:19:48
Matt
We've played around with a couple of like um ancillary products. So things like um acrylic standees.
00:19:54
Jo
Right.
00:19:55
Matt
um
00:19:56
Matt
And there's you know there's always a deep the blue sky sort of folder of ideas has all manner of crazy things in that, youre like haven't got to the point of thinking, what would it cost to do that? you know So just the the ideas that you know haven't materialized into something yet and you know may very well be a different form by the time they do is a big list.
00:20:08
Jo
Yes.
00:20:18
Matt
Because you know anytime you have an interesting idea, you go, well, make a note of that.
00:20:22
Jo
Interesting.
00:20:22
Matt
and But if it's one of those ones like Dumb Dares was, it's like, that's an idea. Let's put it on the list. Well, you know what? We can probably write and have this printed within a couple of weeks. Let's see what see how it works.
00:20:35
Jo
interesting
00:20:37
Matt
um And yes, I mean, we've we've definitely got some things that have ah moved on from concept just into like early design stages, but have never become products. because either something else has come along or we've kind of never quite got the Zen down with it exactly how we want it.
00:20:47
Jo
yeah
00:20:54
Jo
Right. I was going to ask, that was actually my next question. was like Because sometimes it's a technology thing. Sometimes it's the artist going, something's not quite, you know, you have to work it out in your your mind as it goes along.
00:21:09
Jo
How long do those kind of stay in that purgatory?
00:21:12
Matt
um I mean, some are probably still there. um
00:21:15
Jo
Okay.
00:21:15
Matt
Probably my best, most recent example is the Dungeon Designer deck, which we've released. Again, that one was really, well, we sold them at Gen Con as a pre-release and their mass market release is anytime sort of now, or so I think in the US.
00:21:30
Matt
um And that's a collection of 100 cards, a little fold-out map and a little reference book. And this is, the core of it is scenery cards um that will sit down and sort of merge neatly onto um the battle map.
00:21:42
Matt
And on the flip side of it, it's an encounter table.
00:21:45
Jo
Love it.
00:21:46
Matt
And that was down as a a thing we're going to do. um But whether it was the getting it drawing started or writing started, it just for some reason took a long time to get where it needed to be.
00:21:57
Matt
um Then seemed to sort of, once it got started, really just kicked off and became a very good product once it had started being written in earnest, I think.
00:22:09
Jo
Weird. Oh, there you are.
00:22:10
Matt
Yeah, just a bit of a blip there.
00:22:11
Jo
You're back.
00:22:13
Jo
So we were talking about the.
00:22:17
Jo
the The instant, the dungeon in a box, the instant dungeon. And I think we explained this in Gen Con, and I think that's a brilliant idea where the encounters can be card based. You turn over, boom, and that's what happens.
00:22:31
Jo
You know, so.
00:22:32
Matt
Yeah, so the um it kind of evolved from being sort of like um but basically just a set of scenery in card format to essentially being like its own little toolkit. And I think that's where it gelled because it was more of a sort of like, you know, why are we making this set of scenery cards?
00:22:43
Jo
Very cool. Right.
00:22:47
Matt
You know, that something else needs to fit into that product. And the idea that it could then become its own little toolbox that you
00:22:52
Jo
right
00:22:57
Matt
Because we put a book in there so that if the card's down on the table, you don't have to flip it over mid-session to reference what the encounter is. So you can kind of go okay, that's down. I can, as the DM, do my thing.
00:23:08
Matt
If you're solo playing, you could yeah know put a map down, f throw down a couple of random cards from the deck and not know what encounter they've got until you go into that room, turn it over, roll the dice, go, okay, right, this you know explodes.
00:23:23
Matt
This has a couple of skeletons coming out the wall, whatever whatever the thing is.
00:23:25
Jo
I love it. Yeah. Right.
00:23:27
Matt
suddenly you've then got to deal with it. So it's a great deck for solo play.
00:23:31
Jo
yeah
00:23:31
Matt
It's a great deck for GMs doing a bit of pre-planning because you can just deal a few cards and go like, why have I got some barrels? Yeah, like i'm an Astronomers study and a pool of water.
00:23:42
Matt
What is this room? Why do these things interact?
00:23:44
Jo
right
00:23:45
Matt
you know your Your creative juices start flowing straight away as you start to go, what could happen here? How can I make these things interact? and you know How can I make this interesting for the players?
00:23:56
Matt
Um, you've also got the bit where, um, as I say before, quite often the players will burn through the content you have ready for them.
00:24:03
Jo
Right.
00:24:03
Matt
You're like, right. We've still got two hours with, you know, sat around a table. Um, let's give them some more dungeons. So, you like obviously promoting our own products here for yellow, you could put an extra couple of pages of map book down, deal out a couple of bits of scenery to it.
00:24:19
Matt
And suddenly you've got something else for them to be doing on the fly very quickly.
00:24:23
Jo
right which is brilliant, which is that. but And that's the imagination of your products works with other people's imaginations. And that's the perfect synergy.
00:24:35
Jo
It's, it's a great mind flower. And it's something that you can just do a quick game or a quick setup, I should say, not quick game, and then just be able to play Boom.
00:24:45
Jo
Or if your GM is sick one day and it's trying, someone's trying to be a new GM. Boom.
00:24:50
Matt
Oh yeah, no, perfect for new GMs.
00:24:50
Jo
and Instant ideas.
00:24:52
Matt
And for that one, we've we've set rules on it that will work from first to 10th level D&D 5e.
00:24:59
Jo
Very Yes.
00:25:00
Matt
We'll tend to either write things system agnostic or for D&D, mainly because if you've done it for D&D, it's the easiest thing to convert into another system, and it's the one with the largest number of people playing anyway. So even if you're not playing D&D,
00:25:15
Matt
these things will work because you'll understand things like oh it's got a high armor class so it should be difficult to hit
00:25:21
Jo
yes It's very transferable. and And that's part of the charm, especially when we were talking about the other adventures. I'm thinking like the extra token thing, the experience thing, the gold thing, whatever you want to give your players as an award. It's there across campaigns. It could be Cyberpunk. It could be Ragnarok. It could be any a Star Wars game, whatever you want. It's all kind of there.
Entrepreneurial Insights and Career Path
00:25:44
Jo
And it's very adaptable to that. And I think that's brilliant.
00:25:48
Matt
Oh yeah, yeah, that that's completely a... There's a slight fantasy sort of like slant to things, but it's so easy to go like, you know, give your sword a name to give your blaster a name is not a particularly big jump.
00:25:59
Jo
Yeah, absolutely. Now, I ask this of all my guests. If you can go back and tell younger, and I mean like teenager below you, one piece of advice, what would it be?
00:26:12
Matt
Directly game related?
00:26:15
Jo
yeah Anything you want.
00:26:17
Matt
Yeah, I... I think maybe that, you know, like um starting your own business and being in charge of essentially your own career and life is probably better than going and getting those jobs and working for someone else.
00:26:32
Jo
Yeah.
00:26:32
Matt
Although obviously doing a bit of that gives you the experience to go and do the rest of it. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:37
Jo
Absolutely.
00:26:38
Matt
Yep, yep. Being your own boss and setting your own destiny because your career is a big chunk of your life. You may as well be in charge of it as much as you can.
00:26:45
Jo
Yeah. and ah Brilliant. Put your money on you.
Where to Find Loke Products
00:26:49
Matt
Yeah, yeah, perfect.
00:26:51
Jo
Absolutely. Well, where can we find you besides these great cons, by the way? Where can we find you online?
00:26:56
Matt
ah So ourselves, LokiBattleMats.com. Although we are we're widely distributed, so you'll find us on your local gaming stores shelves, find us on most of the ah the big sort of like ah gaming online sort of places, as well as the more mass market things like Barnes and Noble, Books A Million.
00:27:12
Jo
Nice.
00:27:18
Matt
Amazon, all of those sort of places as well.
00:27:21
Jo
Very, very cool. Sir, it's been a pleasure. Again, if you've never seen a Loki battle mats, you need to try them out. If you have any any role players in your family, you don't know what give them a gift, check out the website.
00:27:37
Jo
Go like this. Pick something at random. It'll be perfect. I mean, this is the absolute place. But for anyone who's gamed or has friends or family who's gamed, I saw your booth and it was packed.
00:27:51
Jo
It was just jammed. And it was all people going, oh, my gosh i'm like God. Everyone's like more and more. I get a mob at some point. I had to walk around people.
00:27:59
Matt
and I think it's just the side effects of being essentially our own customers.
00:28:01
Jo
I love it. Yeah.
00:28:05
Matt
So yeah, like I don't think we would make a product that isn't something we would see on the shelf and go, oh, I want that.
00:28:11
Jo
No.
00:28:11
Matt
Yeah.
00:28:11
Jo
and and The hardest thing, honestly, the hardest thing was like, okay, my budget is X. How much can I buy here?
00:28:19
Matt
We're at the stage now where we tend to have more products than we can possibly put onto a convention booth as well. So you're like, oh, what do we put on? You know, like obviously then obviously you you do the new things and then, you like how much space do you give to
00:28:26
Jo
Oh, wow.
00:28:29
Jo
Yeah.
00:28:30
Matt
Yeah, existing. Yeah.
00:28:32
Jo
It's like the Rolling Stones. You guys are basically Rolling Stones at this point. Like, which which song you want to do? I don't know.
00:28:36
Matt
me
00:28:37
Jo
Love it.
00:28:38
Matt
I'll just have a 10 hour set list.
00:28:38
Jo
Love it. Yeah. Well, again, pleasure on behalf myself and Matt. And I'm um trying this this guy from the the Midwest of the United States with Paul Harvey. And he always signed off this way. I'm trying to get this.
00:28:52
Jo
And i've I've been failing for the last two months. We bid you good day. Bye, everyone.