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Games for Everyone with Derek Chung of Nomnivore | What’s Kraken Interview
12 Plays5 days ago
In this episode of What’s Kraken, Jo sits down with Derek Chung from Nomnivore Games to talk accessibility, inclusivity, and why fun should always come first in game design. From the origins of the “Nomnivore” name to building games that double as therapeutic tools, Derek shares how titles like Emberwind, Snack Attack, and Nomaventure are breaking barriers and bringing players of all ages and abilities to the table.
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🔑 Key Moments
- Origin story – How late-night MMO raids (and snacks) inspired Nomnivore.
- Design philosophy – Accessibility isn’t an afterthought; it’s the foundation.
- Games as therapy – Why Derek says “therapeutic,” not “therapy.”
- Catalog highlights – From Snack Attack to Emberwind, modular games for every player.
- Advice to his younger self – “Get more sleep now — you won’t later.”
- Why it matters – Games as community builders: no kid eats lunch alone.
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Transcript
Introduction to Derek and Nomnivore
00:00:08
Jo
Hey everyone, Joe here and today's special guest is Derek. And honestly, Derek and I met before at Gen Con, hello.
00:00:16
[NOM] Derek
Yes, hello.
00:00:17
Jo
And it was weird because we were not supposed to meet. I was actually at the booth for something else. And I saw the, we'll say the overly abundance of positive energy coming from Nomnivore. like, we gotta talk about this. And we started talking about game design and what the game was and just the different aspects of it.
00:00:39
Jo
So first I have to ask why nomnivore? Why nomnivore?
00:00:46
[NOM] Derek
Like, do you mean the the name, the mission, what exactly?
00:00:48
Jo
Yeah, the all all the above, the name, where's the name come for?
00:00:49
[NOM] Derek
like
00:00:51
Jo
He's like, I'm nomnivore.
00:00:52
[NOM] Derek
Sure. ah Yeah, so it's a bit of an inside joke, I guess, is the story there. Nomnivore, the name comes from when I used to run guilds and raids and MMORPGs.
00:01:06
[NOM] Derek
ah Yeah, I met a lot of really good friends that way. And um sorry, what?
00:01:09
Jo
Warcraft?
00:01:12
Jo
Was it Warcraft? Was it rhyming with World of?
00:01:14
[NOM] Derek
it It was was World of Warcraft. It was like Ragnarok. It was Guild Wars, et cetera. Like Guild Wars was was really where it kind of took off.
00:01:20
Jo
Oh, wow. he did Really?
00:01:23
[NOM] Derek
um
00:01:23
Jo
Nice.
00:01:24
[NOM] Derek
Yeah. And the name came from us all you know gaming till whatever hours late at night and just enjoying snacks while we chatted and just having fun. and And the the idea there, which kind of became the spirit of the particular company, was like,
00:01:43
[NOM] Derek
Back then, we were all you know in like high school and everything.
Nomnivore's Inclusive Game Philosophy
00:01:47
[NOM] Derek
And as we continued to develop, we realized just how much games were important to our not only like mental health or social health.
00:01:48
Jo
right
00:01:56
[NOM] Derek
It was a great way of connecting people from all different walks of life, from different areas in the world together.
00:01:56
Jo
Yeah.
00:02:00
[NOM] Derek
um And that's effectively the spirit behind like this little guy, the little dinosaur that we have here, at the nominosaur, where they they love snacks, they love a bunch of trouble, they love games. And ah we we built this entire company about trying to make sure there's always a seat around the gaming table, literally for anyone and everyone.
00:02:20
[NOM] Derek
And our our company is built around trying to make games as exclusive as we can, or sorry, as as inclusive as we can with them
00:02:28
Jo
Right. Really? Right.
00:02:29
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, with being like neurodivergent accessible, with ah trying to wrap in a lot of positive psychotherapy elements to it, and ah we also dabble in making things as accessible to physical disabilities as we can.
00:02:38
Jo
no
00:02:45
[NOM] Derek
It's not where we specialize, but something that we partner with a lot of different charity groups to achieve.
00:02:48
Jo
right
00:02:51
[NOM] Derek
And that's also why, despite us technically not being a non-profit, we operate like that, where we're really kind of paying forward to make sure we're raising everybody up to be able to play however they want.
00:03:04
Jo
Well, that's amazing thing. And that's one of the things I really loved about your booth was when we were talking, it was everything you want as an educator, everything you want as a, well, actually, at least human being, I should probably preface there, being as inclusive as possible, and being something that can help everyone from from being neurodivergent beyond, enjoy gaming.
00:03:32
Jo
Because we don't want to, you know, games, you don't want to exclude anyone that always should be the more the merrier type thing. And yours was the but first booth that really hit that home.
00:03:38
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:03:41
Jo
That really hit that home.
00:03:41
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, which is a bit of like an unfortunate element. um like i don't I didn't necessarily want to be the first one to do it. and ah But like it became kind of a thing um that we're we're currently known for.
00:03:55
[NOM] Derek
But like ultimately, what we want to do is we want to establish a pattern so that other developers, game companies, and all that can follow.
00:04:01
Jo
Right.
00:04:04
[NOM] Derek
Because as you put it, fun, games, all that shouldn't be exclusionary toward anyone.
00:04:10
Jo
It's wonderful.
00:04:11
[NOM] Derek
um Yeah, if if anything, we we actually started off in a pretty weird way. Most people that fall into this particular industry come from other ones. People aren't born inherently as game designers, though.
00:04:22
[NOM] Derek
um That's changing now with ah college programs being built around game design. And if people specifically want to learn about like how I go about designing games, I do also teach at like a college.
00:04:34
[NOM] Derek
on this type of stuff.
00:04:34
Jo
wonderful
00:04:36
[NOM] Derek
um And you know don't don't tell the college this, but like all of my my teaching materials are available for free. Feel free to reach out at any point.
00:04:42
Jo
Right.
Psychotherapy and Educational Psychology in Games
00:04:43
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, because we want to make sure that it's not just about being able to make games that are accessible, but we also want to teach people how to make games ah accessible in the most accessible way we can. But this all started actually where when I actually came from psychotherapy to start.
00:05:00
[NOM] Derek
And I really wanted to make psychotherapy more accessible to everyone, right?
00:05:00
Jo
right
00:05:04
[NOM] Derek
Because mental health shouldn't be something that's exclusionary either. But to democratize care, we realized, you know, what better way of doing it than hiding all their cool best parts of ah psychotherapy into games, right?
00:05:17
[NOM] Derek
Like that that's the best way to have people gain access to it.
00:05:18
Jo
yeah
00:05:20
[NOM] Derek
But it was in that process that we realized that games weren't accessible, which is what got us on this particular warpath.
00:05:26
Jo
I love that because A, I do teach as well.
00:05:33
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:05:33
Jo
I teach as well. And part of the the wonderful things I love to do with my classes is teach them how to play games. Let's see if anybody missed, you know, there's a couple on the shelf up there. And then like the next part of the semester is how do you make your own game?
00:05:41
[NOM] Derek
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:05:45
Jo
But I never took this step further as saying, how do you make your accessible game? And i love how you're pushing that out there. And this is like, I get to learn too, you know?
00:05:55
[NOM] Derek
Well, the the irony there is i actually ah think we always get to learn as long as you're willing to lean in and listen to the people around us.
00:06:03
Jo
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:04
[NOM] Derek
um So like we specifically utilize an educational psychology ah terminology in how we design games called scaffolding. And that's really just a fancy schmancy academic way of saying that Everyone is a wealth of knowledge, and so long as you can find a way to listen to each other, you can actually learn from one another.
00:06:25
Jo
yeah
00:06:26
[NOM] Derek
And games are just a great meeting place to make that happen. right like Think about the last time you came up with a really cool a gameplay strategy or like a build because you saw someone else in your group doing something cool. You're like man, I want to do that as well.
00:06:37
Jo
Absolutely.
00:06:38
[NOM] Derek
So, yeah, no, I feel like we we vibe on that wavelength.
00:06:39
Jo
And brings a social part of it. Yeah, and and you're right, and it brings a social part of it. And I think that when we were both, at least when i was growing up, I went through the Dodgers and Dragons evil scare, where like, Oh, they're devil worshippers, those people playing games, you can never play them.
00:06:57
Jo
But have Milton Bradley is like the Ouija board. Milton Bradley put that one out, or Parker probably, whatever it was.
00:07:00
[NOM] Derek
Yep. Yep.
00:07:03
Jo
Dungeons & Dragons, that's bad. And Warcraft, that's you're just wasting your time. wait They're not real people. No, they are real people. like You're playing with real people. And I think our generation is one of the first ones to kind of see that online is real.
00:07:17
[NOM] Derek
yeah
00:07:17
Jo
you know It has that effect.
00:07:18
[NOM] Derek
yeah
00:07:19
Jo
And you're bringing it into your nominavore game. So you went from this concept to make a diversive and Yeah, wrong word. A diverse, that diverse ah two different words, it sounded like.
00:07:30
[NOM] Derek
Yep.
00:07:31
Jo
and A diverse game that can be inclusive for all peoples. And you decided to make it at a card. Is that a card game?
00:07:40
[NOM] Derek
ah No, it's actually much more than that.
00:07:43
Jo
Oh.
00:07:43
[NOM] Derek
um Yeah, so ah Nomnivore is an entire company and we publish tons of games and not just games, but we publish children's books, kids toys, everything.
00:07:50
Jo
Nice.
00:07:55
[NOM] Derek
And it works in a way where we understand that everyone has unique and independent interests and we still want to bring you together to share in those interests with one another.
00:07:59
Jo
Right. Okay.
00:08:04
[NOM] Derek
so we use a unique way of approaching game design called kernel x modular design, where we take the core of a game and compress it into the simplest possible experience.
00:08:14
[NOM] Derek
That doesn't mean there's not depth to it, it's just compressed in a way that where it's super efficient. And then we add modules, which are ways that allow you to change how the game works a little bit ah to fit kind of your particular play style. So the way that we described it is not playing our game so much as you're playing your game.
00:08:30
[NOM] Derek
And our games are
00:08:30
Jo
Right.
00:08:32
[NOM] Derek
have that in a built in a micro way where you can customize everything within the game, but also in a macro strategy where you can progress from one game to another game to another game to another product and whatever else in a way where the game suite develops alongside of you.
00:08:47
[NOM] Derek
but like
00:08:47
Jo
right
00:08:48
[NOM] Derek
I'm not so conceited to think that my game is going to hold your interest forever. but like Everyone likes to play lots of things, and you as a person develop, as your skills develop, because your as whatever else.
00:08:57
Jo
right
00:08:58
[NOM] Derek
So we wanted to create something that could help foster that particular growth, but not just as like a singular product, but as a web of products to be able to meet you wherever you need as you, ah let's say, grew up from two years old to 80.
00:09:13
[NOM] Derek
or if you were trying to let's say develop your ability to read despite being being dyslexic, we'd always have something to catch you.
00:09:21
Jo
that's That's wonderful. So it's a modular approach as well.
00:09:26
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:09:26
Jo
you can build on, build on, but you don't need to, and you can get the one that vibes you the most to build onto the game.
00:09:31
[NOM] Derek
Exactly.
Fun and Educational Game Design
00:09:33
Jo
Awesome. Have you ever seen parents or educators reach out reach out to you saying, my child is this. Well, I have a classroom of X. What's the best way to approach it?
00:09:43
[NOM] Derek
Oh, all the time. And i always have the most, ah I guess, like benign or stupid answer for them, which is well, have you tried making it fun?
00:09:54
[NOM] Derek
right like as much as
00:09:55
Jo
Step one. Yeah. Right.
00:09:56
[NOM] Derek
Right, step one. And in fact, it's kind of the most important part. like yeah All of the game design, and we we can kind of get onto the soapbox and get like really nitty-gritty into the details, but game design is ultimately finding a way to systematize fun. The rules ah create restrictions, and those restrictions allow for creativity, and that creativity is where you get player expression.
00:10:17
[NOM] Derek
And the mastery of those skills, knowing finding and finding ways to express things that are uniquely you, is arguably where a lot of the fun is. And the main problem a lot of time, not only in like psychology, but even academia, is that we ah don't care about you individually.
00:10:32
[NOM] Derek
right like Despite us being multiple generations beyond the Industrial Revolution, our school system is built like that, where we're trying to get people into being interchangeable cogs in a factory system doesn't exist anymore.
00:10:38
Jo
Yeah. Right. Absolutely.
00:10:43
Jo
blue but group
00:10:45
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:10:45
Jo
right
00:10:46
[NOM] Derek
um And because of that, a lot of learning isn't enjoyable until, and this is what a lot of people are realizing now, gamifying learning can make learning really fun. um and there's so many people that will learn from games they'll learn from just conversations with one another right like right now we us having this back and forth so um yeah finding ways to make that uh more engaging by not uh like effectively optimizing or systematizing all the fun out of it
00:11:02
Jo
and
00:11:05
Jo
absolutely
00:11:17
[NOM] Derek
is where you'll be able to find ways to encourage that. So um but that's kind of the the like philosophical answer. And then on the practical level, like we have organizations. I'm going to shout out one right now, ah one that's a really near and dear favorite of mine, VTC USA, which is short for Video Game Clubs of America.
Creating Inclusive Gaming Communities
00:11:37
[NOM] Derek
ah
00:11:37
Jo
Cool.
00:11:38
[NOM] Derek
It's, in my opinion, poorly named. Yes, Josh, if you're listening to this, you can you can hate me for saying that out loud. But um the reason why I don't think it's a great name is because they go well beyond video games. The entire philosophy behind that ah charity is that they want to make sure that no kid ever eats lunch alone.
00:11:57
[NOM] Derek
and yeah like I'm aware, ah Joe, you probably watch Klee. I'm pretty sure most of your listeners here probably watch Klee too, but like think that model, but about games.
00:12:06
Jo
yeah Oh.
00:12:07
[NOM] Derek
And they build all these cool gaming clubs, after school clubs at schools, at libraries, these interactive spaces where kids are able to learn from each other. And they're not only backed and staffed by a bunch of educators to special needs professionals and all that,
00:12:24
[NOM] Derek
But they're built in a way where they take games, both the ones that you love, as well as specialized games like ours, to write SEL standards so that you can actually use them in an educational way to help kids catch up, learn the essential skills that they need, and so on and so forth.
00:12:41
Jo
And part of those essential skills, especially since COVID, is socialization.
00:12:45
[NOM] Derek
Oh yeah, yeah, the the amount of people that really push and care about like ah ah SEL now is huge.
00:12:46
Jo
One that was missing.
00:12:53
[NOM] Derek
In fact, a lot of like the the cohort that I'm currently teaching, even at a college level, are the ones that went through all of high school remotely. And it's a remarkable difference between them and even just like students from a couple of years either before after that.
00:13:02
Jo
Yeah.
00:13:08
Jo
Absolutely. the same experience where sometimes you see a student like, hey, how do i talk to this girl? like, well, you just do.
00:13:16
[NOM] Derek
yeah Have you considered?
00:13:16
Jo
What do you mean you just talk to her? like, yeah, you just talk.
00:13:18
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:13:20
Jo
Yeah, that's what the mouth's for right there. But you see this as an educator. You see this as a game designer.
00:13:28
[NOM] Derek
Mm-hmm.
00:13:28
Jo
Are you also, and you are a fan of games, did you ever bring in the game you wanted to play but didn't have yet as inspiration to make new games?
00:13:38
[NOM] Derek
Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, um ah we do a lot of different games, but like my heart and soul is probably in my TTRPG Emberwind.
00:13:49
[NOM] Derek
um
00:13:49
Jo
Yeah. Correct.
00:13:51
[NOM] Derek
Mainly because it completely reversed the formula. like We wanted very much to deliver the type of experience you expected of game like D&D. But we wanted to build it in reverse.
00:14:01
[NOM] Derek
The way that ah that ah most people look at D&D is this is a game that's built for like this audience, and then we're now going to find ways to lower the barrier of entry so more people can get in. And I hated that approach.
00:14:14
[NOM] Derek
the The idea of lowering a bar so more people can play means that you've designed something that is exclusive from the get-go, and now you have to find ways to make it inclusive.
00:14:22
Jo
Right.
00:14:24
[NOM] Derek
right
00:14:24
Jo
By definition. definition Yeah.
00:14:26
[NOM] Derek
yeah By definition, and so I wanted to create something that was as inclusive to every audience as we could and then lift people up to play however
Design Principles of Emberwind and Other Games
00:14:32
[NOM] Derek
they want.
00:14:32
Jo
ah love it.
00:14:33
[NOM] Derek
so We created a really unique system that works off of like a one-page rule set. ah that anyone could play. And for ah you know the the more neck-beardy type like myself, there's ways with the modules that you could add to it to create 300-page rule set to be as nitty-gritty and as nuanced as you want.
00:14:50
[NOM] Derek
And now I finally had a game that I could play together with my wife, right like as selfishly as that sounds, because like she was the target audience, so somebody who always wanted to get into this type of stuff, but had no ability to get through that 300-page rule set no matter how much you simplified it.
00:14:56
Jo
Right.
00:15:03
Jo
but 12 volumes of like right not even i mean we grew up as ah with a kids we had had start but if you starting now like I can't even tell you how many player have books how many monster manuals how many player dungeon master monster manual player handbooks you know it's like oh my gosh, I just want to play a game please.
00:15:12
[NOM] Derek
yeah
00:15:20
[NOM] Derek
Right. And like nobody necessarily has the time. And if they don't have the time if they do have the time, theyly they probably don't have like the the money necessary to get into it. Because like well how am I going to play if I need 800 books to to get into this, right?
00:15:33
Jo
Absolutely. And a lot of the books were, if you ever read your terms of service from Apple, that's some of the material, that's some the material.
00:15:39
[NOM] Derek
ah
00:15:41
Jo
That's how thick of it is. It gets it so granular. Like, oh my gosh, just, just how do I get into this? So you built something that you can go from a one pager, which is amazing and have isn instant fun, right?
00:15:53
Jo
Not a lot of setup, set up and gone. And I have to ask, does your wife like it?
00:15:58
[NOM] Derek
ah Sort of. she yeah shell She loves it because I make her love No, kidding. but ah No, she...
00:16:05
Jo
Nice.
00:16:06
[NOM] Derek
She does enjoy it. She definitely sees the artistry behind it. But um what makes her enjoy it probably the most is that my wife is unfortunately both a sore loser and a sore winner.
00:16:17
[NOM] Derek
She's the type that's incredibly competitive.
00:16:17
Jo
night
00:16:19
[NOM] Derek
And um I designed a system that found a way that allowed us to have our own unique and independent rule sets while still playing together. um And not only was that something that's the case, the game also functions without a GM if you don't have one.
00:16:35
[NOM] Derek
So it it creates this kind of dynamic where she's able to play her own way and still be competitively on par with whatever I'm doing, even though like it it is technically like a cooperative narrative game.
00:16:35
Jo
Right.
00:16:46
[NOM] Derek
But like she's all like, hey, look, you know I did just as much DPS as you did. I'm like, OK, chill. That's that's fine. but like That was kind of the heart and soul of it, right? The fact that we were able to create an experience where no matter what type of gamer you are, you're able to find that fun out of it, right?
00:17:02
[NOM] Derek
The narrative gamer can enjoy the narration. The power gamer can power game.
00:17:05
Jo
Right.
00:17:06
[NOM] Derek
And it doesn't in any way with you expressing yourself detract from somebody else's expression. So, yeah.
00:17:11
Jo
Absolutely. That makes sense. So the narrative game that doesn't detracts more a back and forth is kind of like the bloody bloody head and name of bronze, if you're familiar with where you have the the the one person is who sailor and then you the name dealers and stuff like that.
00:17:22
[NOM] Derek
Mm-hmm.
00:17:27
Jo
So you have this aspect of your game that's immediately social. immediately social built in and cooperative and the same time competitive.
00:17:32
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:17:37
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily competitive in like the typical, oh, like I'm going to PvP you type thing.
00:17:42
Jo
One person must win. Yeah.
00:17:44
[NOM] Derek
yeah it it gives you Yeah, it gives you the ability to express yourself, be yourself, but also, and and this is kind of the the real thrust of the game, it inspires you from within to want to know about why other people are doing things that particular way.
00:17:44
Jo
I talked about controller hand.
00:17:52
Jo
Right.
00:17:58
[NOM] Derek
It inspires that curiosity.
00:17:58
Jo
Love it.
00:18:00
[NOM] Derek
but ah Rather than, you know, ah forces you to read 300 pages rules or more likely you'll make your DM read it and then have them try and explain the rules to you.
00:18:00
Jo
Yeah.
00:18:09
Jo
As you break all the rules, you kind of planned out for a while. Absolutely. So what's your current catalog? What's your current catalog for Nomadivore? What do you have?
Nomnivore's Game Offerings and Charity Work
00:18:18
[NOM] Derek
um So currently, ah if we're talking just games, on the casual card game end, we have Snack Attack, which is a competitive snack-stealing game ah that may or may not teach kids how to gamble, so i don't tell them that.
00:18:31
[NOM] Derek
ah We also have Dungeons & Dinos, which is a fun twist on on games like Munchkin. It's a co-op take of a dungeon crawler. ah But by co-op, I don't mean cooperative.
00:18:39
Jo
Yes. That's very cool.
00:18:40
[NOM] Derek
I mean co-optional. um the The last card game we just dropped is called Get Baked, and it's a competitive cookie baking game. And that one is built specifically for a charity called um Cookie Brigade, which is, if you go to like the PAX series of shows, you'll know them very well.
00:18:56
Jo
right
00:18:57
[NOM] Derek
but All the money that goes to them, um the like it depends on where they decide to forward it, but it sometimes goes to things like child's play and whatever else to make sure that so kids in hospital care can receive that.
00:19:07
Jo
very cool
00:19:10
[NOM] Derek
On the RPG end, along with Emberwind, we have Nomaventure, which is our baby's first RPG built for kids 5 and up. uh same type of modular build but it's built for like uh all types of neurodivergence not only in an educational way but um it's good for like straight up family fun and it's built for professional use in uh both like uh clinic clinical settings and also in schools and special needs um beyond that we
00:19:17
Jo
Yeah.
00:19:38
[NOM] Derek
We have a bunch of other game things that I can't necessarily talk about yet. We may or may not be dabbling in some video game stuff and some other really interesting hardware, but like our goal is always to find more ways to bring fun to more people.
00:19:50
Jo
and That's what it should be. Honestly, I love how you're using this as part of a therapy and part of educational, right? If you gamify things, it goes great.
00:19:58
[NOM] Derek
ah So... If you don't mind me interrupting really quick, I really don't like the term therapy. I'd like to say that this is therapeutic. And this is coming from like specifically like a psychotherapist.
00:20:07
Jo
Therapeutic, okay.
00:20:10
[NOM] Derek
Right.
00:20:10
Jo
Right.
00:20:10
[NOM] Derek
um and And the reason why I'm saying that is the therapy is very formal and it's built around like the specific thing where like for a 50 minute hour, we'll sit in a sterile office where you tell me about how much you hate your mom. Right. Like, cool. And for some people, that's going to work real well.
00:20:24
[NOM] Derek
but that isn't true for everyone and at the end of the day ah if if you can conceive it this way a therapist wants you well enough to never have to see you again right like it's not because we hate you but we won want you in a position where you need to rely on us right so um but we're not
00:20:24
Jo
Right. Right. Yeah.
00:20:35
Jo
and right
00:20:39
[NOM] Derek
but like As humans, we're not ah socially isolated creatures. We need to have friends, family, some sort of support group around us. And what better way than to create something through games, right to find those support groups of shared interests where you can be yourself around other peers that you know love and enjoy you for who you are.
00:20:52
Jo
no
00:20:58
Jo
Absolutely.
00:20:59
[NOM] Derek
um
00:20:59
Jo
Right.
00:21:00
[NOM] Derek
and And in that particular case, like I think way more than the therapeutic intervention you get from a therapist, what really matters is that therapeutic moments where you're having a fun time, where you're able to enjoy yourself and sharing that with the people around you that really mattered to you.
00:21:14
Jo
right
00:21:19
[NOM] Derek
Right?
00:21:19
Jo
Absolutely. Yeah, sometimes it's those, especially in classrooms where i would see a student who is painfully shy, because maybe English is a 12th language.
00:21:20
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:21:30
Jo
And there's painfully, painfully shy. And you see them get lost in the game. and then start speaking and then start opening up and then start wanting to come to class next week.
Games as Tools for Personal Growth
00:21:42
Jo
And then all these things built from these small moments they build in people's lives. And sometimes as you're an educator, you know, this, you might have been that child's or that adult's moment in his life or her life, whatever for that day, for that week, for that year, you were the bright spot and it takes that one spark to keep them here.
00:22:02
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, i don't think I don't think I can put it a better way than you did.
00:22:02
Jo
So I appreciate these games.
00:22:07
[NOM] Derek
right like It might, for to you, be a small, meaningless moment, but to someone else, that could have been life-changing.
00:22:13
Jo
life changing. Absolutely. We never know whose lives were changing. Now, speaking of changing things, I'm must say wait here. you Has there been something you just wanted to put it out you couldn't because of technology is not there or like the the right rule sets not in your mind yet some kind of issue or problem you just got I wish it's like 10 years from now I can probably get this one done.
00:22:37
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, so i mean the the irony to that is ah that was Emberwyn.
00:22:37
Jo
Anything that's Yeah,
00:22:43
[NOM] Derek
right like I made that game system in high school, which, oh my god, at this point, was over 20 years ago. But like it's something that nobody understood when I first released it.
00:22:49
Jo
Good.
00:22:53
[NOM] Derek
Everyone's like, well, OK, but like I don't understand how this is an RPG if you don't need a DM. And wait, what do you mean you could have a DM? like What does that like flexibility mean? and people are
00:23:02
Jo
could
00:23:03
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, and people are kind of looking into and buying into that a bit more now. They're like, oh, we get kind of where this is going. If anything, ah something that really helped conceptualize it to people is the popularity of Baldur's Gate 3, where Baldur's Gate is like the video game adaptation of a TTRPG.
00:23:20
[NOM] Derek
Emberwyn is a TTRPG adaptation of a video game RPG.
00:23:20
Jo
Right.
00:23:24
[NOM] Derek
And everyone's like, oh, like it's come full circle. This all makes sense. And Emberwind still is that project. It's that dream project where it's the pie in the sky where I'm chasing things. And the next step that we're currently at, it could take us another 10 years, is specifically hybridizing in a way where we have it as a physical digital game.
00:23:47
Jo
Love it.
00:23:48
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, like originally it was always built to be that, which is why Emberwind, when you pick up a physical book, it comes with digital parity.
00:23:49
Jo
Amazing.
00:23:55
[NOM] Derek
It comes with PDFs that update for life. And we give you support packs you play on once enroll 20 in Foundry. But um the next step, and it's the step that we got hung on, unfortunately, because our web development team is Ukrainian and we all know what's going on Ukraine currently.
Integrating Technology for Accessibility
00:24:09
Jo
Very cool.
00:24:09
[NOM] Derek
um Yeah, it was full digital databasing. We wanted to create an entire suite, basically give you guys D&D Beyond, but free. But that only brings us up to like where everything is currently. We have all of these ah desires, all these plans, and all these things where we want to streamline in a way where anyone at any skill level can basically create whatever they want to kind of build that community, to then be credited for it, to also grow it in a way where, let's say, the the online database will not just communicate and like know your stats in a way where when you're playing the physical game, you're rolling a die, that die should be able to tell you if you you missed and so forth.
00:24:46
[NOM] Derek
If you're blind, the diode should be able to read out the roles for you.
00:24:47
Jo
Right. Yeah. Right.
00:24:49
[NOM] Derek
Being able to build that into, let's say, physical hardware like your game board that can physically, despite you playing on on a table, communicate with another mat on a table halfway across the world.
00:25:02
Jo
yeah
00:25:02
[NOM] Derek
right that would be phenomenal and that stuff that people are turning into and tuning into now i think it will take a lot more years development to make some of that happen um but like ah we're we're here for it we're at that cutting edge and we're happy to invest the time energy and money to make that happen
00:25:13
Jo
i
00:25:22
Jo
Well, I'm glad you guys are because it's it's one thing to have ah friend who thankfully has a screen reader now or now there's programs on TV, they'll tell you like the stage direction so you can hear it.
00:25:38
Jo
But you playing tabletop, you rolling a dice, you don't know. And it kind of takes that like one more pause.
00:25:44
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:25:46
Jo
So you take that out of there. and you make it more accessible. And that opens up a whole new audience, not just for commercial use, but and whole new audience of enjoyment, a whole new level of inclusion.
00:25:58
[NOM] Derek
yeah I think it's also about...
00:26:00
Jo
And I think that's what needs go.
00:26:02
[NOM] Derek
Oh, sorry. I keep going. I interrupted there.
00:26:02
Jo
No, that i was not just no, that's what was just saying. I think this word needs to go.
00:26:07
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, well, the other thing, and and I think this is worth flagging, is this is also about preserving enjoyment. right like ah We belong to the generation of the very first nerds out there.
00:26:17
[NOM] Derek
It like blows my mind when like ah Zoomers go, oh yeah, you know like I've been playing like Fortnite and Minecraft since I was six, and somehow that's cool now. And I'm like, oh, well, back then we get beat up for this, right?
00:26:27
Jo
Yeah, I know.
00:26:29
[NOM] Derek
but um But but there's there's a saying in the the disability services and the specialists there, which is that we all should strive to live long enough to acquire disability.
00:26:42
[NOM] Derek
but like We don't want to like croak before then. And if eventually, right no matter how much we try and maintain our our physical body, eventually something's gonna happen.
00:26:45
Jo
Right.
00:26:51
[NOM] Derek
like Our eyes don't work as well. Our our our you know joints don't. like We've developed arthritis. Oh, no.
00:26:57
Jo
you talking to to me now?
00:26:57
[NOM] Derek
But...
00:26:58
Jo
i'm like, um ice pack I got special glasses to see anyone. Yes. One day that might happen to me.
00:27:03
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, right. Right. And it's it's coming sooner than people think, right?
00:27:07
Jo
Yes.
00:27:08
[NOM] Derek
And because of that, if we want to be able to maintain the ability for people to continue to do all the things that they love for as long as possible, because, you know, there's no reason why senior shouldn't be allowed to, let's say, play a game, right?
00:27:08
Jo
Yes.
00:27:17
Jo
Absolutely.
00:27:18
[NOM] Derek
that' There's more reason than ever now to make this stuff be a thing while we're still able-bodied enough to do it so that, let's say, 20 or 30 years from now, we can still be the nerds in a completely unmitigated, uncontrolled way.
00:27:31
Jo
ah No, that's brilliant. and And I love that aspect of it. Now, I asked this question to all of my guests.
Derek's Advice and Nomnivore's Online Presence
00:27:38
Jo
If you can go back in time and tell your younger self, and I mean like below teenage, so like 15, 16 or below, some advice, what would your advice be the younger you?
00:27:54
[NOM] Derek
Get as much sleep as you can now, because you won't later.
00:27:58
Jo
Oh, yeah yeah, that's that's good advice right there. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:28:03
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, because like game design is an incredibly rewarding profession when it comes to kind of like the creativeness that you feel, but it isn't one that really pays the bills.
00:28:04
Jo
not
00:28:17
[NOM] Derek
um And it's says doubly so for company like mine, where we don't actually take paychecks.
00:28:17
Jo
Right.
00:28:22
[NOM] Derek
um Every hour that we put in this company is completely voluntary, and every dollar that we make that doesn't go into making more content effectively gets donated out to the charities that we work with.
00:28:27
Jo
Interesting.
00:28:33
Jo
Right. Right.
00:28:34
[NOM] Derek
And um ah to basically make the bills and yay capitalism work, right because people need to eat and pay rent, ah everyone who works at NOM has full-time jobs running other stuff as well.
00:28:34
Jo
and
00:28:47
[NOM] Derek
And if those jobs are in the same realm that I'm from, right like everyone's heard of STEM, but HEAL is the flip. right This is like health care, education, and so forth.
00:28:56
Jo
right
00:28:56
[NOM] Derek
ah Where you're doing that in a way where like i used to also do psychotherapy for free right for as many people as I could. um But that is also a huge time sink because everyone kind of deserves that respect and time. So like ah I've regularly for like the past decade or more had like work weeks of 120 if not plus hours.
00:29:20
[NOM] Derek
um That is thankfully being reduced now um because like we've gotten enough footing in the industry that we don't need to work that crazily anymore.
00:29:28
Jo
Now it's just $100. What am I supposed to do with all the 20 hours?
00:29:30
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, something like that. I think I'm averaging 70, 80 it's 200% too much. it's it's fifty percent less than four which is still two hundred percent too much but
00:29:38
Jo
Yeah.
00:29:39
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, but ah the point is, um yeah, I tell my younger self, please, you know get more rest. ah
00:29:47
Jo
Bank it now.
00:29:47
[NOM] Derek
and And yeah, from from kind of that humorous view, but also like it's it's through that rest, and this is kind of the ah more like philosophical bit of it, it's like through that rest that you really have to learn that the importance of like a work-life balance.
00:30:04
[NOM] Derek
Because if you don't know that work-life balance yourself firsthand, then you also won't understand what's fun for other people. Because I've spent so much time working on games that I rarely get a chance to play games anymore. And there are moments where like doing that for too long puts me in a position where I just...
00:30:26
[NOM] Derek
could very well not understand the audience I'm trying to serve.
00:30:30
Jo
Yep.
00:30:30
[NOM] Derek
Right? So making sure I take moments to stop for myself, realize that I'm human. Very important because, you know, at the end of the day, like that's all we all really are.
00:30:41
Jo
Absolutely. No, that's, that's brilliant advice. And I think that goes to all of our younger and current self sometimes, you know, so Derek, where can we find you and nomnivore online? Where can we find you online?
00:30:54
[NOM] Derek
ah The easiest place to find everything would be off of our website, nomnivoregames.com. It sounds difficult to spell, but it's really not too bad.
00:31:00
Jo
Cool. Cool. Interesting.
00:31:02
[NOM] Derek
It's the word Omnivore with an N in front of it, if that makes it any easier.
00:31:06
Jo
ah does
00:31:06
[NOM] Derek
um that'll That's kind of the parent site. It'll link you to things like our social media, to our Discord, to Emberwin's entire database, and so on and so forth. um we We will be updating that eventually. We're looking at opening up a charitable a foundation arm. where it
00:31:24
Jo
cool
00:31:24
[NOM] Derek
We're potentially opening up like a publishing branch and a bunch of like educator resources. So um please make sure to keep revisiting that site because there are there's going to be more and more cool stuff there for everyone.
00:31:29
Jo
interesting
00:31:36
Jo
Absolutely. And where do where we find you and your educational resources at also Nomnivore?
00:31:42
[NOM] Derek
Yeah, so if you reach out literally at nominivore for anything, it will always go to me anyway, because you know game design, everyone everyone wears a ton of hats.
00:31:48
Jo
Cool.
00:31:50
[NOM] Derek
And I'm happy to kind of email out those particular resources to you if you would like to request it.
00:31:50
Jo
Yeah. ah You might get a request in about 20 minutes.
00:31:58
[NOM] Derek
Ah, perfect. Yeah, I'm ready for it.
00:31:59
Jo
<unk> I'm just saying, maybe, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:02
[NOM] Derek
Yeah.
00:32:03
Jo
Oh, wow. So I appreciate it. I appreciate what you do in the gaming and educational community. I loved your booth. Again, it was a happy little accident. And sometimes history is made for all the different reasons.
00:32:16
Jo
And I'm so thankful for you to sit down and actually talk without the 12,000 million people in Gen Con popping back and forth. you know I can't wait to see what's next.
00:32:25
[NOM] Derek
Oh.
00:32:25
Jo
I really can't. It's something near to my heart, education and gaming, both and inclusion. It is wonderful. So I want to say thank you as an educator, people that actually had people who could not play a game before because they had blindness or they had some kind of neurodivergence that you're putting stuff out that we all need.
00:32:47
Jo
So thank you.
00:32:48
[NOM] Derek
Well, I'll flip it around and tell you thank you so very much. right um like I can do whatever I'm doing for as long as possible, but if nobody knows it exists, then like it's very much like if a tree falls, does anyone hear it? right ah so um like the The awareness that you're you're bringing to all this, i literally can't thank you enough because, again, like that's the whole point is accessibility and knowing that it exists is the hugest step in the process.
00:33:19
Jo
I appreciate that. Honestly, I do. And hopefully we can get a lot of people, get a lot of cool games, a lot of cool stories. And thank you so much. And on behalf of myself, Joe and Dick, we bid you, I'm trying my best Paul Harvey still.
00:33:32
Jo
Working one. Good day. I don't have it. by everyone.
00:33:37
[NOM] Derek
See ya.
00:33:38
Jo
Bye.