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Dr. Heather Leigh Landon on Ghosts, Science & the Shadowy Hat Man | What’s Kraken Interview
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Jo dives into the strange and science-meets-spiritual world of the paranormal with Dr. Heather Leigh Carroll‑Landon, a researcher and ghost investigator who blends metaphysical studies with boots-on-the-ground evidence. From seeing spirits as a child to using fidget spinners as ghost tools, Heather brings decades of personal experience, academic study, and wild stories.
She opens up about a powerful dream where a spirit warned her of a health crisis—and how that dream may have saved her life. Jo and Heather also unpack the creep factor of the Hat Man, why this shadowy figure shows up in multiple cultures, and how locations like ghost towns, petroglyph sites, and even ley lines might be tied to paranormal energy.
This episode is equal parts goosebumps and grounding. Whether you’re a believer or just paranormal-curious, you’ll walk away with chills and new questions.
KEY MOMENTS:
- Opening riff – A Coke Zero wardrobe malfunction kicks things off
- Personal story – Dr Heather shares a dream-visitation from a spirit during a major health scare
- Guest’s big insight – Paranormal research needs rigor, data, and respect
- Behind-the-scenes moment – A mysterious miner appears to a museum guest—no one was there
- Why it matters – How belief, intention, and repeatable methods bridge science and spirit
👉 https://linktr.ee/Emptyhell
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Transcript
Introduction to Dr. Heather Lay Landon
00:00:02
Speaker
Hey everyone, Joe here and today on What's Crackin', we've got none other than Dr. Heather Lay Landon to talk to us about Paranormals. Hello. yeah How are you?
00:00:14
Speaker
I am doing fantabulous, minus mya warho my wardrobe mishap of ah a Cork Zero exploded on me. but ah should have seen that coming.
Defining the Paranormal
00:00:26
Speaker
so When we are discussing the paranormal, what is that to you? To me, it's anything currently that can't be explained by science. And ultimately, currently announcement my goal is to make the paranormal field regarding ghosts and I guess you would say cryptids and stuff like that to become a true science.
00:00:49
Speaker
Very cool. I have someone we can talk off air about. ah Lee is one of the tops in the field in Canada ah for this very thing.
00:01:01
Speaker
And so this interests me a lot on this overlap with making paranormal science and science based. Right. So what made you want to go in
Personal Paranormal Experiences
00:01:12
Speaker
this direction? Well, I've started having experiences um when I saw my grandfather when I was younger.
00:01:17
Speaker
And then as I continued growing up, um I just kind of went down a rabbit hole per se. And the more I learned about it, the more I wanted to keep learning about it. But the one thing I started noticing was that nobody i I know I get flack for this in the paranormal field, but not everybody takes this as serious as I think it should be taken.
00:01:38
Speaker
They go out because they want the scare. They go out because they want answers for themselves. And which is true. I want the answers for myself, too. But I also want to get answers for everybody else because it's not just me that's suffering and not really suffering, but not me that's just experiencing it.
00:01:52
Speaker
So I think and I also truly think I guess it's my OCD that comes into play where i see people doing this research and They're going in not really taking notes that they should be taking. They're just going in and doing it.
00:02:07
Speaker
And I really think there needs to be more behind it.
00:02:11
Speaker
Absolutely. No, 100%. Your best friend is a paranormal researcher. Exactly. Notebook. And a flashlight, by the way. You always need a flashlight. you know And people, it's amazing how many people just don't take notes. And even on the shows, there's some shows that like, oh, we just go out and do. I'm like, ooh. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:31
Speaker
That's not research. That's just like, right. And when I was studying
Paranormal Research and Science
00:02:35
Speaker
with Dr. Kelly at I MHS here, and it was in Florida. um The one thing he did is he taught paranormal science, and he taught how the paranormal connects with string theory, you know, and interdimensional stuff and how we can use actual scientific based research that's already out there to help with our research and paranormal field.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, what's what's the thing from dancing wooly masters? Nonsense is just stuff that you don't understand Exactly. And it really brings it in. And that was all the quantum mechanic thing.
00:03:07
Speaker
So you really put a lot of study into this. What was your study It was interesting. and He definitely opened my eyes to a lot of stuff because I had always done research in it and always looked into it.
00:03:19
Speaker
But it kind of gave me more perspective on how that other areas of study can contribute to the paranormal field. It's not just using the scientific method, but we could also use chemistry. We can use physics.
00:03:30
Speaker
you know We can use photography. you know art in our research in it so it's amazing how many areas of study can be contributed and used in the paranormal field no i i think you hit it on ahead it used to be the but when ghostbusters first came out right is the it was always that stigma attached to it and i think as science expands we as a society are going like well maybe there's things we don't know Because we thought we knew a lot of stuff that turned out to be wrong. So maybe this thing is there.
00:04:05
Speaker
So you said you saw your grandfather. Was that a vision or was it a feeling? Multiple different things. um When I was younger, he well, a little bit of backstory on that one is when I was five.
00:04:16
Speaker
He had a heart attack while we were outside playing in the snow. He was shoveling the patio and i witnessed the heart. mean, granted, they got me out of there as fast as they could because I was little. But witnessing that, that always stuck with me and I was really close to him.
00:04:29
Speaker
And then as a teenager going through teenage issues, he um came to me in a dream. i would see him walking the hallway and that's kind of what started it because we lived in a home that he had never been to because we moved to that home years after he had passed.
00:04:42
Speaker
And that kind of continued developing um as a young child, but then or as a teenager. But more recently, wanna say eight years ago now, I hadn't seen him for many years and I was going through kidney disease and I was diagnosed with stage five. And I had a dream one night and it was him telling me that it's not my time, you're gonna be okay.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I woke up to him sitting next to my bed, rubbing my arm and then he faded away And then next thing we knew my kidney disease completely reversed itself with no medical intervention and I'm in full remission of it.
00:05:14
Speaker
So, thank you. Oh, wow. Well, first congratulations on that. So he would, you know, appear, you know, visually and then also, but mostly in dreams, but then dreams I would wake up and he would be there. Yeah. It's interesting you say in dreams because i was doing research into my own ability. I mean,
00:05:34
Speaker
Dreams, for those that don't know, aren't just dreams. You can have lucid dreams. You can force a dream. there's There's a whole science behind that. And, you know, Domhoff used to do dream work.
00:05:47
Speaker
But there's a bit of what I'm investigating is into his dreams as the gateway into an astral.
Dreams and Other Planes
00:05:55
Speaker
Right? Right. And so maybe is that how you're seeing the dream of your grandfather? like the gateway into i think that plane? think That's how I'm kind of viewing it as, or it's his gateway into seeing me and coming to me when I, yeah, either way, the revolving door.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, both ways. And then the residual energy kind of like when you wake up is still kind of. yeah There. i That's interesting. Do you see that with other people? The only other time that I've seen it, I mean, my uncle had appeared in a couple, but it was always with my grandfather.
00:06:25
Speaker
um Then there was one time we would do investigations at a local museum, and that was kind of like our training, where we would actually train and experiment and do stuff the museum would let us do that as long as we gave them our research.
00:06:38
Speaker
And um one night there was always this dark shadow figure at that museum. And one night he came to me and it was in a dream. And it was like, don't go to the museum on the next investigation.
00:06:49
Speaker
Something bad is going to happen. And then when I woke up, you could see our TV was still on and you can see the outline of the shadow figure standing in front of the TV at the foot of the bed. and then that faded away as well.
00:07:01
Speaker
So I thought it was really interesting. And then at the next investigation at the museum, we had a very negative energy there. It wasn't the same. It was almost like something had moved in And it was just really weird. And that was his warning telling me not to go. And I mean, we had strange EVPs telling, you know, we never had an EVP telling us to get out. All the spirits there knew us. They welcomed us.
00:07:24
Speaker
Then we're getting, you know, get out, you know, F you.
00:07:29
Speaker
And it was just a completely different experience. What do you think that, it I mean, was it because you're doing repeat investigations in the same place, right? Which I think is, by the way, if anyone doesn't do that, I think it's absolutely mandatory you should do. Like you would never do a scientific specific experience on one thing. And like, oh, no, you keep repeating it. That's science. That's the science part of it.
00:07:51
Speaker
And you think that there was an entity always there and it was kind of like, oh, people kind like waking up after they're long. Right. Well, at that time, the museum was under construction to bring in a new exhibit.
00:08:08
Speaker
So we, and we, but then COVID hit and we never went back after COVID. So. Right. Maybe something in the construction kind of jostled it or even the.
00:08:19
Speaker
The presence of, that's interesting. Has any other dark issues like that
Exploring Sleep Paralysis and the Hat Man
00:08:23
Speaker
happened to you in your investigation? The only, not during an investigation, but during COVID, that same dark figure appeared in our kitchen and was just almost like he was checking in on me. Like, hey, you haven't been to the museum in a while.
00:08:34
Speaker
Are you okay? and ah you know And then just kind of disappeared again. um The only other time is, and this is tough to determine if it is considered paranormal or not, because I have always suffered from sleep paralysis.
00:08:48
Speaker
It's the worst thing in the world. And I never associated it with the paranormal because I never had any hallucinations. It was just, it was all scientific for me at that point. But I started doing research with a friend of mine, Philomena, and she runs Project Umpra, which dedicated to um the hat man.
00:09:08
Speaker
And trying to- What's the hat man? He's known as, he's like a tall, dark figure, always used see him wearing a hat. But we've uncovered so much information. We have over, wanna say over 200 responses on a survey that of people who've experienced the hat man and they all describe him differently.
00:09:25
Speaker
It's with the type of hat, but it's always a shadow figure, always, you know, something like that. But when I started researching it, it's, I also, and she's always had other people try to help her, but they've always had negative experiences seeing the hat man and they quit.
00:09:41
Speaker
And I told her, I'm not going to quit. I'm not going to run. I'm going uncover this guy with you and figure it out. But as soon as I started that research, I had a sleep paralysis dream that night, but I was scared that night for the first time after having it for many, many years, I was scared. And I felt like someone was crawling up on the bed.
00:10:00
Speaker
and it was, and I relate it right now to that, even though I don't have any proof, but that is the first time I've ever had that type of sleep paralysis experience. Right. No, that makes sense. And sleep paralysis he itself is pretty frightening. I would imagine pretty frightening. And then most of it's attached to a visitation of some sort.
00:10:23
Speaker
You know, that's so usually are the stories, right? i Sleep paralysis, a lot of visitation thing like was just usually display explained away as sleep paralysis. Right. Aliens? No, sleep paralysis. Ghosts? Nope, sleep paralysis. Demon? Nope, sleep paralysis.
00:10:35
Speaker
So what you did is you flipped it almost. You had sleep paralysis. So you knew what it was. this is the first time it's like, oh no, this is different. Completely different. Yeah. Yeah. that That's...
00:10:47
Speaker
Have you kept the research up for this? We put it on hold because right now she was going through some issues and she was traveling for work. And then, of course, I just moved halfway across the country from Florida to Texas.
00:10:57
Speaker
But we're in the process of picking that back up because we have, like I said, we have hundreds of surveys. And they're not just your simple, have you experienced the hat man? What did he look like? There are like 100, I think it's 150 questions on the surveys that go everything into the person's health. And we're noticing a lot of people that are are age positive.
00:11:17
Speaker
are the ones experiencing this. So we're thinking there's a connection there. um Demographics, um geological or not yeah geological locations where people are living.
00:11:28
Speaker
And we're also noticing it's regional. People who are, for example, in like the Southwest United States see him wearing a sombrero. People in the New England area see him almost wearing like a pirate hat or a British soldiers hat from the, so it's almost like he, had dad and you know, China, he's wearing the, you know, the hats that you see the Chinese people wearing in the rice fields.
00:11:49
Speaker
So it's almost, we're kind of thinking either A, it's people are manifest, self-manifesting it from the stories to what they believe he should look like, or he's adapting himself to the culture that he's going to.
00:12:04
Speaker
yeah i've I've seen b i mean, I've seen b before where the entities would look mimic-y, like different to different people based upon their almost expectations. So it's almost like a but bit of both, I think.
00:12:19
Speaker
But what do you think? Is it A or B more for you? we're in the process of putting a lot of, cause we've actually had people write stories out for us and I'm in the process of reading through those and we're going to be putting them out in a book. um Some of them, as I read them, you can tell to me, it comes across, i would say it's about a 60 per 60, 40 split, 40% self manifestation, 60% something's really happening because just reading the stories and interviewing these people, cause we've also done video interviews with them all.
00:12:48
Speaker
um You can hear the fear in their voice. um Other people feel comforted thinking that he's just a watcher overlooking, but other people, there's true fear there. and just the way they describe it and how it occurs, it's too coincidental that all these stories are exactly the same with just enough twist to make it personal to that person.
Cultural Interpretations of the Hat Man
00:13:13
Speaker
That's fascinating. And you're doing, a as we would call an Oxford qual quant, A qualitative, quantitative, like mixed method study, right? Because doing the interviews, you're doing some of the fill in bubbles, and you're doing some long answers.
00:13:29
Speaker
How long does it take you to go through the data? I'm still going through it. and And it's been about two years, because we're not we're graphing it. The other thing we're doing too, is we're taking the locations where these events happen.
00:13:42
Speaker
And we're comparing it to lay lines. And we've also discovered a commonality with missing 411 cases. Yeah, really?
00:13:54
Speaker
So you have an overm map of an overlay of the ley lines plus the missing cases and it happens to- they all connect. That's kind of, well, A, scary, but very fascinating as a researcher.
00:14:08
Speaker
It really is something cool. And when you're talking about the hat man, i was like, is that a regional thing? But we're talking about, like no, why it's everywhere. I'm like, okay. And now- It can't be like a mass psychosis. like oh going back the goes but People are trying to say it is because I mean, of course you see on TikTok, which I try to avoid as much as possible, but you see on TikTok that they have the hat man is induced by Benadryl, you know, and those are the, you know, the self-inflicted self-induced, you know, self-manifestation cases.
00:14:39
Speaker
But we've actually, the research we've uncovered, we've found petroglyphs in Nevada, Arizona, and I want to say over in the Middle East area, um even Egyptian hieroglyphs that have symbols that resemble what the hat man is described as today.
00:14:58
Speaker
Okay, so Nevada, that's Valley of Fire you're going to? Yeah, I kind of grew up in Las Vegas. We lived out there for eight years. Valley Fire program. five. i Really? It was quite a, way we moved four years ago to Florida and then now we're in Texas. So, but we were in Nevada before. ah wait, you, you did the haunted, uh, Nevada stuff, right?
00:15:20
Speaker
It's slowly popping my head. Las Vegas.
Family's Role in Paranormal TV
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. surprise we haven't crossed paths before. yeah be My family is actually my husband and my son are my paranormal team with me and we were featured in Real Hunts Ghost Towns and the motion picture Real Hunts series.
00:15:41
Speaker
Oh very very cool good for you guys and this is all exciting this is what i'm saying. When you take things seriously and you put the effort and the work and the discipline into it, good things, or as a hat man may be completely evil things right might happen you. And I'm always asked people are like, how do you get into the TV shows and how do you do X, Y, and Z? And I'm like, I didn't set out to do that. They're the ones that reached out to us and said, Hey, we'd like to, you know, so it's not, it's not our agenda. And I tell people, don't make it your agenda, make the research your agenda. And then like you said, good things will follow.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah. If you're David Lee Roth as a lead singer in Van Halen and you wanted to be a star as a kid, that's a one of a zillion chance. And he did it. Everyone else didn't.
00:16:26
Speaker
So if you're like your agenda is to get on TV or something like that and you don't have your own camera crew and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The science has to be the the passion for has to be the agenda. Right.
00:16:40
Speaker
So what do you like more, the research end of the interpretation or the interviews or the investigations or the writing part? Oh, you're asking me to pick between my favorite children. no i know.
00:16:53
Speaker
and is it I would say it would be the hands-on research because I just love how it all, the more you research, the more it all fits in together and seeing it come you know come to fruition and you know how this research and this investigation tactic actually proved a theory we had or something like that. I love seeing that.
00:17:14
Speaker
That is pretty decent. i I agree. It's the putting the puzzles together and seeing that like the the maps that you're about the maps of the lay lines. Like we we see pieces like that, like, Oh my God, i oh it kind of glows in your head. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
So when you're doing all this, you said your husband and and and your son, and your paranormal team.
Tools and Techniques in Paranormal Investigation
00:17:34
Speaker
Yes. Have you ever had disagreements with a paranormal team? Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
00:17:40
Speaker
It's, How did they end? You're like, I'm mom. They kind of often defer to me just because i have more than 30 years experience and they've kind of just been thrown into it the last 10 years.
00:17:53
Speaker
um So it's kind of weird. It's my husband is very, you know, okay, ghosts exist in your mind. I get it type of thing. And he, you know, believes that something could be there, but he's more of, I don't really like to use the word skeptical because I still believe skeptics can be believers.
00:18:08
Speaker
um And he kind of has that level head of like, are you sure that was paranormal type of thing? So he kind of keeps me in check and my son is still learning, but he loves coming up with different theories and he'll be like, Hey, what if this happened? Or, you know, so he kind of brings up different ideas.
00:18:24
Speaker
I love that. And when you're going out into the field, what kind of tools do you use now? Just a video recorder, an audio recorder. um We do have, um i of course, pendulums and dousing rods and all of those things.
00:18:37
Speaker
We do use a spirit box, but not as far as collecting evidence. We usually mostly use that. Of course, we used it when they filmed us for the documentary and when we would do tours.
00:18:50
Speaker
Just because on the tour, people want instant information. You know, so we, and but we would explain to them that this may or may not be paranormal, but here this is giving you that almost instant satisfaction, but it's not something we use as a tool for collecting data.
00:19:04
Speaker
um The other thing that I do like to use and everybody laughs at me about it is I have light up fidget spinners.
00:19:13
Speaker
Lee's team uses them all the, i think they call them cat balls some I won't use the cat balls because those can easily be, but the fidget spinners, they're heavy enough to where vibrations won't cause them to spin or go off. And they they don't light they don't light up due to vibrations. They stay lit up so we can put them in a dark hallway.
00:19:31
Speaker
And it's basically one of those things where it needs force to move. So nothing environmentally will disturb it unless there's an earthquake what trigger or a heavy grease.
00:19:42
Speaker
But it's real interesting there. I find those more sturdy and it's more or less just to see if something's there and willing to interact. nice read and I share that all the time. like I think it's the best tool out there. And it's it's not so much for the you know paranormal, you know, scientific data. It's more for us just to kind of have fun and, you know, lighten up the investigation a little bit because I mean, and they're all different colors, too.
00:20:09
Speaker
So you can use them for, you know, hey, spin the red one for no spin, the green one for yes. You know, kind of. yeah That's a great way of doing like the whole switch. Press this switch, press that switch. I like that idea. I do.
00:20:22
Speaker
And you're right. Sometimes the cat balls go off and you sneeze. The car drives by a mile down the road and they start blinking. yeah Yeah. but The truck. yeah UPS is here. like that.
00:20:34
Speaker
So I like how you also go. There's the instant gratification part of for the tours. I'm looking at the tours in minute. And the actual data collection are separate because what people don't see on the show is they're like, it was a 20-minute show. like No, that was like an eight-hour investigation, 20 or 25 hours of looking through stuff multiple times, and then splicing it into a 20-minute show. It's a lot of sitting around. So when you're doing tours, where do you tour? just curious.
Educational Ghost Tours
00:21:05
Speaker
we're in Nevada. um It was called McCaw School of Mines.
00:21:08
Speaker
We did it as a fundraiser for the museum.
00:21:13
Speaker
Oh, um it was is that the Haunted Museum now? No, it's um it's in Henderson. And what it is, is it's an above ground simulated mine.
00:21:24
Speaker
And i volunteered there for some other stuff. And I said, hey, wouldn't it be fun if we did a ghost tour on Halloween to show the kids what we do? Because they opened it up and made it like a haunted house.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so they would stop the haunted house for like every 30 minutes for 10 minutes. And we would take a group of kids in and we would run an event, you know, say, hey, this is how it is. And it was so then there we just would do, you know, it would I think we did three or four total while we were there.
00:21:49
Speaker
But it was we brought people in. We said, hey, you know, let's do a tour. And we did, you know, we had like a little class in the beginning of the different tools and how to investigate. Show them the hot spots that we've uncovered.
00:22:01
Speaker
And then they all got to go their merry way and do their investigation on the way they wanted to. So it was a lot of fun. but That's amazing because you get the young scientists of minds kind of going.
00:22:14
Speaker
And even if they don't go to paranormal, they still keep that curiosity about it which is great. And it's a fun experience. When was this? Do you remember what year? About five years ago.
00:22:27
Speaker
It was just before COVID. That's why. Okay. Okay. So I was out of Las Vegas, but then I'm how do I about this? But we started, because I would go there because I also ran, um it was Macaroni Kid. It was a kid's website that talked about all the fun things to do in Henderson.
00:22:45
Speaker
And I was there, I would set up a craft table for them because they would open up the first Saturday of every month. to allow free tours because the museum is dedicated to school tours. So school buses would come in and take the kids on a tour to learn about mining.
00:22:57
Speaker
um But when I set up with the crafts for this event, I said to him I'm like, hey, this is also what I do. And we also had one experience that was kind of interesting that kind of triggered a lot of it is a little of the museum. It had an emergency exit at the end, but otherwise you couldn't get out with. And if you left through that door, the alarm would sound.
00:23:14
Speaker
There was one way in, one way out. And this little kid came out and it wasn't that busy. And they just said to myself and the museum curator, they're like, thank you very much. The guy you have inside the museum is amazing. he's dress And he described him dressed like a minor.
00:23:29
Speaker
And he talked to me about different things and showed me different things. And I really think that was a really cool part of the you know the museum. And we're like, we looked at each other when the kid left. We're like, there's nobody in there. So we ran in there thinking there's some creepy guy in the museum giving tours without our knowledge. And there was nobody in there.
00:23:45
Speaker
And that kind of triggered that something's there. Oh, that has to mean that the entire area has got to be a hotbed. That was where, especially when the Great Depression happened, a lot of people went and even the Wild West and before that. But they they have um ah artifacts there from mines in the area. They have a train from Area 51 that's located there. They have um the elevator from the mine in Rhyolite.
00:24:12
Speaker
So yeah, so there's a lot of artifacts there that we feel might have some energy attached to it.
00:24:19
Speaker
Is there anything that you've encountered that made you want to quit?
Cleansing Rituals in Paranormal Activity
00:24:25
Speaker
kind of like No. No. Yeah. I mean, I've been pushed, shoved.
00:24:31
Speaker
We were um doing an investigation at a residential back in Vegas and I was cleansing, helping cleanse the house. And i was just putting some sea salt along the windowsill. And it was ah I don't get this, but some houses are built like this. She had a huge garden tub with this big, massive picture window over it.
00:24:50
Speaker
So I was standing in the tub, just sprinkling some sea salt on it. And all of a sudden it was like something karate swept my foot feet out from underneath me. And I flew up in the air just a little bit and landed in the tub on my knees.
00:25:03
Speaker
And it was like, and I just stood up and i yelled at it, whatever it was, like it was a little two year old child that got in trouble. I'm like, we don't treat people like that. We don't do this. How dare you do that? You know, you better not do it again and you need to leave the homeowner.
00:25:17
Speaker
And the minute I did that, the whole house brightened up.
00:25:22
Speaker
but that's cool That's a cool story. First of all, you're right. ah A bay window by a garden tub? I don't get it. really i don't get Maybe they want a natural light. I don't know.
00:25:33
Speaker
But a lot of people looking in. So you did this and you reacted ah appropriately, right? You reacted appropriately and it respected that.
00:25:44
Speaker
When you're doing cleansings, and this is more of professional curiosity, What are you doing? What's your method for cleansing? was it is you know You're saying you're sealing things off. I truly do believe that when it comes to cleansing a home, it's more of, and I don't really want to use, because I do believe cleansings work to a point, but it's more of an act for the homeowner.
00:26:05
Speaker
So you kind of have to base it on their beliefs. And what it was is the mother wasn't religious, but the daughter was dabbling in witchcraft, which is my background. So I was doing a pagan cleansing of the home and it's more to give them power to take back control of their home, because I truly do believe that if the person's home that you're cleansing believes that you're cleansing it, that's also going to help protect them in the home and help further cleanse it. So it's a combination of two. It's not just the cleansing itself.
00:26:34
Speaker
um So based on that aspect, we used, of course, sage, cascaria, sea salt, um and we did that. But ah you know flip the script, if it was a Catholic family, we would have brought a priest in and or used holy water to help cleanse the home.
00:26:50
Speaker
And we we also involve the homeowner in the process and show them what we're doing to give them the power to continue doing it so they feel like they're in control of their home.
00:27:01
Speaker
I think you're 100% correct on this because if you cleanse with all your belief and you cleanse the house, sure. But the family don't believe, ain't going to stay. It's going to come back in.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah, but unfortunately with that client, yeah she put her house up for sale and moved a couple of weeks later. so And there's a detachment. So it's with her. No kidding. We gave her our number and she never called us back. So we're we're hoping everything worked out for her. but we didn Yeah, it's either a positive or very bad sign.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think that was one of the most active residential investigations. And it was one of the last that we did for clients just because that's interesting There's too much legalities with going into a person's home that we've uncovered that we just kind of, and and you can't go into a person's home. Hey, we just invented this new investigation technique. Let's test it out on your home while you're scared.
00:27:59
Speaker
We just, we can't do that. Yeah. Cause it's a psychological damage on it. When you were talking about witchcraft and you can say pass this is always questions come from professional or personal curiosities. They're never, you know,
00:28:15
Speaker
What is your, I don't want to say brand, yeah but path, thank you. I do follow more garden. um a lot of people are people refer to it as a kitchen witch where you use herbs and mother nature and all of that.
00:28:33
Speaker
But what I like about um pagan religions and witchcraft is you can pick and choose with what works for you. And you don't, you can do it solitarily. You don't have to do it out in the open. You don't have to be a part of a covenant unless you want to. Unlike churches that, you know, you have, even though you can still practice in your own, but most people do prefer a comfort of church. um I prefer sitting at the beach, sitting in a park and just becoming one with nature.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yes. No, I think that's one of the overlooked aspects of it. It is the ability to Do it as you want to do Do it as you envisioned it. Because again, it's like the homeowner thing. If you had the buy-in, it ain't going to work anyways.
00:29:20
Speaker
And so it should be very personal. I think that's a very personal practice. If you know want to say religion or theory, whatever it's going to be for you. So do you vocalize when you're cleansing?
00:29:35
Speaker
Is there anything like chanting? It depends. It depends on the situation um and the homeowner. Of course, I was raised Roman Catholic. So if needed, i do know how to do the different prayers in the Catholic Church.
00:29:48
Speaker
But I do have several um pastors and fathers and priests that I work with that can help depending on the come person's religion. For me, I do have a cleansing ritual, um but I change up the wording each time.
00:30:01
Speaker
So it's one of those that it's not... the same each time. um'm sorry, my son's in his room and he's watching. That's also a cleansing ritual. Laughter is always good. Always more laughter in the world. So I kind of base it on ah just whatever's happening at the time.
00:30:19
Speaker
Because I mean, you'll see standard ones that are, you know, if you search the internet for a cleansing, you know, witchcraft prayer or spell or anything like that. But I always like to make it personalized.
00:30:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, it goes back to kind of, oh, God, I'm going to completely misquote Bruce Lee. When you first started martial art, a punch is not a punch, a kick is not a kick. It's always the depending what And then as you start mastering it, you learn that a punch is just a punch.
00:30:44
Speaker
It's like whatever the words are, it's usually as long as your intention is here or the rhythm or whatever is making sense to you at the time. That's what you use versus something written down in stone tablets. Right. Because whenever someone asks me, like, i think what spell would you use for X, Y, and z I'll be like, well, here's what I would use, but I can't guarantee it's going to work for you.
00:31:08
Speaker
But, you know, I'll share what I'll use. But i always tell people to try to make make it their own.
00:31:15
Speaker
Well, and yeah absolutely. And plus, it's a lot of repetitions. You know, when you're first starting out, you might be very bad at something. And you're giving someone a spell to use or a cleansing to use and they're going to bumble it half the time anyway.
00:31:29
Speaker
Until they practice and they start going, oh, okay, I can get this now. And then you kind of make your own. Now I asked this of all my guests.
00:31:41
Speaker
What would be a device you would give younger, I mean like teen, two, even that five-year-old child you? What advice would you give them? Advice? um
Advice for Young Learners
00:31:50
Speaker
Never stop learning and never be afraid to ask questions.
00:31:55
Speaker
ye but Brilliant. yeah Because even though I've gone through and I've gotten the PhD in paranormal science, I'm still learning every day.
00:32:04
Speaker
yeah You have to. Absolutely. I appreciate that. And once again, where can we find you on the interwebs?
Connect with Dr. Landon
00:32:13
Speaker
I have um our website, which is in desperate need of an overhaul, but it's heatherleyphd.com or explorationparanormal.com.
00:32:21
Speaker
And then you can also find me on Facebook at, I believe it's HeatherleyPhD, but it might also be Dr. Heatherley. I'm not sure which one it's set up at. And then um all of our links for YouTube, it's basically YouTube and Facebook are found on our website. Nice.
00:32:39
Speaker
amazing time. Thank you very much for everything. i always love talking to someone who takes this as a science as it should be. i appreciate that so much. So behalf of myself and Dr. Heverly Landon, we bid you good day. Trying to get my Paul Harvey out, but you know.
00:32:59
Speaker
Bye everyone.