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EP 31: Childcare
2.4k Plays2 years ago
This episode was prerecorded before Shannon’s passing. Shannon had so much to offer the world and this community and although it’s heartbreaking to hear her talk about the future, we also want as much of her insight, humor, wit, and love to be out in the world as possible. After talking with her family, we made the decision to release these episodes. We hope that this episode makes you smile, laugh, and remember just how incredible Shannon was. We love her and miss her so much everyday.
In today’s episode, the moms do a deep dive into the complicated process of hiring childcare. Shannon and Whitney share their experiences of hiring childcare and nannies, while Candace offers her insight as a former full time nanny. If hiring childcare is something on your to-do list, this episode is for you.
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Transcript
Tribute to Shannon and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi moms! The episode you're about to hear was pre-recorded before Shannon's passing. Shannon had so much to offer the world and this community, and although it's heartbreaking to hear her talk about the future, we also want as much of her insight, humor, wit, and love to be out in the world as possible.
00:00:17
Speaker
After talking with her family, we've made the decision to release these episodes. We hope that this episode makes you smile, laugh, and remember just how incredible Shannon was. We love her and miss her so much every day. Enjoy the episode.
Newborn Life and Milestones
00:00:39
Speaker
There's no right way to do it.
00:00:45
Speaker
Oh, we're going to get into it. Hello, hello, my moms and baby Margo. I'm Shannon and I'm here with Candace Whitney and baby Margo. And this is the Mom Group Chat podcast. Hey. Hey, go, go, girl. She's she's not wanting this nap in the crib, so she's here with us today. I love it. This is going to keep it so real. Like this is the reality of newborn life.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, if you hear a little coup, a cry or a hiccup, that's Margo. That's our girl. Oh, there was one right there. Yeah, she and I were just saying she made a little appearance.
00:01:28
Speaker
like pre-pod a few weeks ago and she still was like a baby newborn. Like you had to fully support her neck and like you're like holding up like a squishy wound. And then just now she was like head up, eyes alert, sitting up straight, at attention, like ready to go. She's a full on infant now, which is so nice in my opinion. The newborn life is hard. So I like it when they turn into actual humans.
00:01:57
Speaker
And they become fun and smile back and all that fun stuff. So we're here. We made it this far. I'm so happy.
Challenges of Hosting Events with a Newborn
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, when they start smiling back, I feel like it was like eight weeks. They say they start laughing and smiling and
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, you forget all the milestones. But it's yeah, anytime between like five weeks and eight weeks, I had to look it up because she started smiling pretty early. But now it's like full on and it's intentional and really cute. But she's doing great. She's giving us seven to eight hour stretches at night. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. Which is still like a three a.m. wake up because we put her to bed at like eight.
00:02:40
Speaker
But it's functional. I'm alive and functioning. So we made it to the other side. And I think I was having a bad week like two weeks ago. And Candice was like, Whitney, just remember like you're on the good stretch of things. Like it's only going to get better week by week. And it's like, yeah.
00:03:00
Speaker
The second you said that, things got better. It was weird. Like divine intervention. I manifested it for you. You did. But she's doing so good. Graydon and her are really interacting now. She's following him and watching him. And he's really starting to play with her a lot. So it's really cute. Oh, that's cute. Yes, he's very sweet to her. Loves her so much. Does he like ask about her? Does he talk about her? All the time. Like even the teachers at his daycare know
00:03:30
Speaker
Her name is Margo. He must talk about her a ton or something so Really precious very precious. He loves babies But yeah, so we're doing good But
00:03:45
Speaker
Gosh, I feel like I've had such a whirlwind maternity leave. We had Graydon's birthday, which I don't even know if I talked to that. I guess I did. I talked about it on here. We had that a month after Margo. And then I just hosted one of my best friend's baby showers last weekend. I thought I had my life together, but I don't.
00:04:07
Speaker
Can we just talk about how you're an actual superhero? Like the fact that you have hosted two events at your house. Yeah. And your baby is nine weeks old is truly like you. I don't even know. Like you're a superhero. That's insane.
00:04:25
Speaker
Well, it's so funny like talking with y'all like I was I was thinking, you know, I'm already a mom. Like I got this in the bag, like having another baby. Let's go. But you kind of forget you're adding a whole nother human to the mix and you don't know them and you got to go with their cues. And I thought I'd have my life together and I definitely don't like it's been hard. I was telling Shannon and Candice that
00:04:52
Speaker
Last weekend, I had my friend's baby shower. And this whole time, I thought it was from two to four. Well, you not only had it, you were hosting. Yes. Yeah. You hosted it at my home, but there was seven other hostesses, which was amazing. So we got to really have a lot of fun with it. But I was hosting it at my home. And this whole time, I thought it was from two to four.
00:05:18
Speaker
And I told all the hostesses, I was like, I have everything together. Like y'all just come 30 minutes early. We'll set up the food. And they all like started trickling in around 1230. And I'm like, wow, they're early. I was in my robe. Hair was wet. Shit was not together like.
00:05:36
Speaker
You know, I just was like, wow, they came earlier than they said. And I was like, I guess I'll go upstairs and get ready. And they're like, yeah, people are coming in 10 minutes. And I was like, what do you mean the party's at two? And they're like, no, it's at one. And I was like,
00:05:52
Speaker
Fuck! The way I was scrambling. I looked like an ugly bridge troll, as Candice likes to say. Well, I don't say that about you. I say that about myself. I don't ever call you a bridge troll. It was like...
00:06:08
Speaker
a panic makeup hair. I didn't even like have time to straighten my hair. So I looked like a puffball. And you know when like it's my house was put together, right? It was clean. I had it the way I want it. But then since I had to step away,
00:06:24
Speaker
They were scrounging for all my platters in the forbidden zones where you don't want people to see the mess in the closets. That's where everyone... Yeah. So that meme where they're like, when people come over and they immediately go to your closet, that happened to you? That happened.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, they were like, where is everything? I was like, well, you got to dig under this pile and this. And then Chris was trying to help because he was here because he thought it was it too. Graydon had just gone down for a nap. I was like, this is a disaster. And I know they thought I was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They're probably like, it's on the invitation, bitch. What's happening?
00:07:09
Speaker
So yeah, like I said, I thought I had my life together and I didn't even know what time my damn party was. Yeah, but your house was ready. That is incredible. In theory, it was ready. You looked very beautiful. I saw the pictures. So you threw yourself together in a jiffy. But I am laughing about
00:07:33
Speaker
when you have people over and you're hosting an event and someone's like, do you have a pie server? Yes. And you're like, yeah. And they're like, well, just tell me where it is. I'll make it easy for you. No. Just tell me where it is. I'm like, no, I cannot tell you where it is. I have to go get it myself. There's no way that me telling you where it is, because truthfully, I don't really even know where it is. I just feel like I might know where I might have placed it.
00:08:00
Speaker
So I need to go searching myself. And that always like bugs me. I'll just tell me where it is. Just tell me where it is. That's why I felt unprepared. And they're like, do you have like a large spoon stir for the mimosas? I was like, what? I don't know.
00:08:17
Speaker
I'm just like, oh my God, I don't know where anything is. It felt like a rush. And so I felt unprepared even though the house was pretty much ready. It just was disheveled. Were people on time
Family Dynamics and Expectations in Hosting
00:08:31
Speaker
for the party?
00:08:32
Speaker
pretty much like thank god Cassie was like on time so it looked like I was like hey welcome to your party as I'm like breathing heavy and she's like oh my god I was so worried that you were gonna sit you think I was late and I was like nope you're good you're ahead of time according to me you're an hour early so it's all good but it went off without a hitch they all thought it was lovely
00:09:00
Speaker
And then I collapsed after. I was like, oh my God. I was so embarrassed, truly. You should not be embarrassed. Were any of the other hosts moms? Well, yeah. All of them, pretty much. Oh, OK. Except for one. Then they all get it. They should get it. Well, one girl has a newborn. I think she had her baby two weeks before Mario.
00:09:25
Speaker
And she's so beautiful and put together and she's like, it's okay. You have a newborn. Then I was like, you have a newborn. I'm not put together. You're put together. I was like, she's not having it at her house. Like it's at your house. And I, the whole, like finding the platters and the spoons and stuff. I feel that's so hard.
Nanny Search and Hiring Challenges
00:09:44
Speaker
We hosted a friends giving last year.
00:09:46
Speaker
and it was so stressful. Whenever someone asks me for some sort of hostess serving thing, I know one of three places it could be probably. I know it's here and I know it's in one of three places, but also our buffet in our dining room is you open one of those doors and something's going to fall off. Well, that's happened.
00:10:10
Speaker
It's like cocktail napkins just shoot out at you. Literally. Literally. So that whole time people were asking me where things were and I was just like, I hate this. I know. I hate this so much. It was so awful. And that's how you end up with like,
00:10:27
Speaker
multiples of stuff. Have you ever been hosting something and you're like, I'm just going to go to Home Goods and just get new stuffs because I need it in the next few days and I just want to know where it is. Then you end up, you're like, how did I get all of these tongs? I have so many tongs.
00:10:47
Speaker
But yeah, we, I mean, literally both of you, I say this so many times on the podcast, but both of you are like, I aspire to be as good of hosts as you are. Like you are queen at hosting and it's like something I aspire to, but it is just like so hard for me. We had dinner with.
00:11:10
Speaker
uh, Charlie and Tamra, Andrew's an uncle, like they're kind of like our local, our only local family. And it was like tied to this little like Halloween parade that we had at the neighborhood. So I was like, just come over for the Halloween parade and then we'll have dinner after. So it required me to like set up our little table for the Halloween parade, make dinner for four adults and a child.
00:11:33
Speaker
And I was flat out dead at the end of the day. And I was like, Andrew, I need a foot massage. That afternoon slash evening of making chili and handing out candy to children just put me on my ass. No, it's so hard. And anything out of the ordinary is like, I'm exhausted now. I just want to go back to my routine and be done with this.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, I love hosting so much. It's truly like a joy of mine. It's very stressful. Now that I have kids, I feel like I was so good at it before I had Alice. And now I'm like, I'm still fine at it, but I'm not where I would like to be. But it's conversations like this that made me like whenever we think about building our dream home,
00:12:21
Speaker
Like I start to think about things like a butler's pantry that has tons of like storage for all of our hostess things. And like I like to have decor for each, you know, season. And when Vinnie and I talk about our future home, I'm always like, oh, that's unnecessary. We don't need that. But then conversations like this, I'm like, no, wait, I think I do need that but that butler's pantry with all the cabinets and the like. Yeah, I mean, for sure. And storage is.
00:12:52
Speaker
If we ever actually renovate our home, I'm going to make sure there's like double the amount of storage that I think we need. Storage is the key to mental health. If you ask me places to just kind of like have enough room for error. Like I want it to be organized, but I don't want to have to be so meticulously organized because I have not enough space for everything. I kind of want extra rooms so I can just like shove things in and close doors.
00:13:21
Speaker
and feel like things are clean. Yep. 100%. Well, all this is to say that everyone that's on maternity leave during the holidays and hosting, I see you and. Yeah.
00:13:33
Speaker
While I look like I have my shit together, it's a sham, and I'm embarrassed that everyone saw my secret dirty closet, so... Yay! Not a sham. This is the part where we have to build you up and say, you hosted a baby shower eight weeks postpartum, so yes, maybe your hair was slightly damp in the back, but...
00:13:56
Speaker
That doesn't mean your shit is not together. It was like kinked in the back like a little crispy. And let's be real. Here's what matters on Instagram. It looked perfect. Okay. You looked beautiful. The flowers and the decor and everything looked absolutely stunning. I'm sure everyone had a great time. Yeah. The flowers. I still have them out. I'm like, I want to keep these forever.
00:14:20
Speaker
They're so cute. It's a big win. Big, big win. And I'm sure Cassie felt so loved and appreciated. That's also what matters. Candace hosted my baby shower and it was like the nicest thing. I know. If I'm like top five things that anyone's ever done for me, that's on my top five. I know. I love that so much. If you were here, I would host the other one. The birthday video Candace did for me, I was like,
00:14:46
Speaker
Wait, that was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me. You're so sweet. Good friend. Thanks. I love doing things like that. It's fun. Can't wait to reciprocate for you. You deserve it. Thank you so much. But yeah, you're, you're killing it wit. So don't, don't be down on yourself. Is she asleep now? Yeah.
00:15:12
Speaker
So now I don't look like I'm like in a psych ward shake, like rocking back and forth. Like the video footage, I'm going to be like. But I feel like I just stopped, you know, when you have an infant and you're just like constantly rocking, you're just like rocking all the time. And then you realize that you're just like moving the stroller at all times. There's no kid in it and you're like always rocking. I feel like I stopped doing that.
00:15:37
Speaker
but it's going to come back like that just like instinctive like I need to be swaying and moving at all times. Yeah. Wait, I have a random side tangent story about that, about rocking. So there was a girl I went to middle school with who we were at a sleepover and I remember we were like sleeping in the same bed. And to put herself to sleep at night, she rocked like she was on her side and she rocked
00:16:04
Speaker
back and forth. And I was like, what are you doing? Rock. I'm Rocky. Like I'm rocking. And I was like, she's like, this is sleep. I rock. And even in middle school, she was still needing to like rock herself to sleep at night.
00:16:20
Speaker
Oh, I remember going home to my mom and telling my mom and being like, this girl, like, she's, she's scammy mommy. My mom was like, oh, it's probably just a soothing technique from when she was younger. And I was like, yeah, but we're like 12. So nice. Karen is so sweet. My mom would be like, that's weird. Yeah. You can't stay there. You can't stay there anymore.
00:16:48
Speaker
Did your babies do anything to soothe themselves? Graydon used to, it was so cute, he used to play with his hair until he liked a lovey, and now he strokes a silky part of the lovey, but he used to twirl his hair.
00:17:04
Speaker
My sister twirled her hair. They're so cute. He does not anymore. Until she was really old. It's a little less, I guess, big as rocking. Rocking is very hard to do quietly. Here's rocking. But Hannah twirled her hair for a really long time, and she might still do it.
00:17:25
Speaker
Um, Alice, like I still pull my eyebrows out. I like that about you. We've seen on the videos. I like it. That's going to be Shannon's birthday. Shout out. Just twiddling her compilation of her twiddling. No, please don't. It's called trickle tole mania and it's real. Um, Alice.
00:17:48
Speaker
She still does it. She takes her two fingers and she strokes her cheeks like this. Oh my God. How funny. Isn't that so random? She even, and that's, that's one of the bet like tellers that she's tired is we'll be watching a show or something and she'll be sitting there going like this to her cheek. How cute. Teacher just sucks his thumb. Classic.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes. Classic boy. Good stuff. Well, Whit, you're crushing it. Very happy to have you recording with us today. Happy to be here. I'm excited to get a little bit of an update from you on your nanny search because that's what we wanted to talk about today was nannies, babysitters, how we find them, how we work with them, how we set expectations. I feel like this is an area that when you're new to being a mom and when you're first
00:18:41
Speaker
exploring all of this is really quite scary. I had a lot of anxiety around it.
Nannying as a Profession and Industry Insights
00:18:47
Speaker
And then we also wanted to hear from Candice, who has like her whole clan in Tampa locally. She's got an army of babysitters, but they're all family. So like, what are the dynamics with that? And she also Candice was a professional nanny in New York for two years, three years, four years, four years.
00:19:11
Speaker
I was like, we are old. I can't believe you did that for four years. I know. Because in my mind, there's not enough time that we've lived for you to be able to have done that for four years and then do everything else that you've done. So from the perspective of somebody who was a full-time nanny, how do you treat your nanny right? What do you look for when you're hiring?
00:19:34
Speaker
all those types of things. I have a lot to say and this is an area that I feel like I get a lot especially from my Q1 moms like my mom group they all know I used to be a nanny so when everyone was hiring a nanny almost everyone reached out to me like can I pick your brain can I pitch this to you and see how it sounds like
00:19:54
Speaker
Um, I shared a lot of nanny descriptions with people like job descriptions and helped them make them. So I have a lot of experience in this area, actually, even though I don't have, I haven't hired a nanny for myself because I have family members that literally fight over watching my child. So I don't need one at this point of time, but I'm happy to share all of my knowledge. Hit it.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm just remembering like when in our mom group chat, when, you know, a couple of years ago when the babies were new and like Whitney, you were hiring babysitters for the first time for Graydon and like all of us, I think like this mostly applies to Whitney and I because we were hiring like non-family members to come like stay with our new babies. Like it was so anxiety inducing to have somebody new come over.
00:20:49
Speaker
And you just like hand your baby over, but it's also this push and pull because you want the break so badly and you want the time to yourself. But then like, as soon as you step away, you're like, what have I done? I don't know this person. So.
00:21:04
Speaker
There's all the emotions that go with it. I think it probably gets easier and easier with each baby. But like, we just hired a new nanny a couple months ago. And it was very hard like adjusting to a new person, even though I've had experience at this point hiring and having help in the house.
00:21:23
Speaker
So there's like the whole gamut. There's like the babysitter that comes over when the baby's already asleep and you're going like out to dinner. And then there's like, mother's helpers. There's people that are coming during the day, like to take shifts here and there. And then there's like a full-time nanny that's like part of your family. So there's all kinds of ways that you can get help from other people. And I guess we should just kind of start with, I want to hear from you Whitney, like those first experiences, what they were like, and then,
00:21:53
Speaker
now what you're doing to find help for Margo the second time around. Well, I don't know if y'all remember that the first go with Graydon, I could not get him into daycare forever, as you might remember from what I've talked about. He didn't start daycare until he was nine months old, but I was going to go the nanny route the first time.
00:22:15
Speaker
And do y'all remember my story of how she flaked on us and it was so crazy? Anyway, I don't even want to get into that because it was kind of crazy. But anyway, I mean, can you get into it? Oh, God, y'all.
00:22:31
Speaker
Okay. Well, um, she was supposed to start in January. I hired her like early December and I like didn't hear from her for two weeks or something. Um, and she met Graydon. She was, I interviewed three people. She was the only one that like asked to hold him. She was seemed so warm and I was like, I loved her. Like I offered her the job on the spot. Like I just bonded with her. I felt good about it.
00:22:58
Speaker
And I was like, you'll start in two weeks. Um, yada, yada. And she like disappeared. Um, and she, I texted her like the week before and I was like, are we good? She didn't say anything. I texted her the day before and I said, you're still coming tomorrow, right? And she goes, I'm in the hospital. I understand if you don't want me to work with you anymore.
00:23:23
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, well, this is the day before she's supposed to start working. And I mean, I only responded with, Oh, my gosh, are you OK? Is there anything I can do to help? And then she just disappeared.
00:23:39
Speaker
And so anyway, I just chalked that up as like, okay, red fucking flag. I don't even want to pursue what's happening. I'm over it at this point. I can watch Graydon. I have been. I don't care. But since I already had her number, she popped up as a person that you may know on TikTok, right?
00:24:02
Speaker
And so all of a sudden, I started seeing her video she was posting. And I don't mean to knock her on this, but it was all about suicide and suicide awareness. And she was starting to push her story and how to help all this stuff. And I was just like, holy shit. So she was mentally unwell. Yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
She was amazing. Like I said, I wasn't going to not hire her because of her past or what she was dealing with. But all I could think about was, oh my gosh, what if she was having an episode while watching Graydon? And something happened. And I was just like, oh my gosh, that's why she was in the hospital. I think she had another episode. OK, I take back when I said, OK, cop ballot. I take that back.
00:24:56
Speaker
But at the same time, it's like she, as on her side of things, it's up to her to communicate effectively, like, you know, to let you know the day before and she had to be reached out to to tell you. It was scary. I mean, it was scary. So that was like my first experience. And I thought.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, it was a little scary. But just finding babysitters for, I guess it was the six months that I was working with Graydon at home. The days that I knew I had certain meetings and things, I went through this thing called Southern Sitters, which is like a nanny service here in the Nashville metropolitan area.
00:25:40
Speaker
And it's amazing because they're all CPR certified, have three plus years experience. It got to the point where I didn't care which babysitter I got because I knew they were all well qualified and whatnot. That's good. Oh, and I love every single person that I've had. I have nothing bad to say. I've told all my friends about it.
00:26:00
Speaker
And that's who I'm using to go through to find a nanny for three months for Margo, just because I want to send her when she's six months old. So I'm going through Southern Sitters to find me that nanny this time, who will be- Okay, so you're using an agency. Yeah, an agency just because I trust them. And I've had great experience with them with just the babysitter side. So they will hopefully be starting December 4th through
00:26:28
Speaker
February, and then I'll send her on to daycare with Graydon. But yeah, I pretty much.
00:26:35
Speaker
reached out to them at the end of September to give them two months to look for me. And I'll start interviewing them hopefully this coming month. So I'm excited. Amazing. Yeah. That was going to be my question is what does that process look like? Like, do they, do Southern centers talk to you about your preferences, I guess? Yeah. I had to fill out this huge questionnaire. They called me up to follow up after.
00:27:02
Speaker
just talking through what my expectations were, et cetera. And then they're going to give me seven candidates and they're going to have me interview them and go from there. So they pretty much just outsource all of it and find all the qualifications that they have for themselves, like the three years
00:27:22
Speaker
of, uh, experience, et cetera. And I mean, it's a reflection on them. So I just know that it'll be well vetted and I feel way more comfortable this time. Yeah. The first girl, where did you find her? Um, what was it? What is it? It's like, what's that website care.com? Yeah. Yeah. I know Candace, you found your family through care.com. And I know a lot of people have success.
00:27:49
Speaker
I have never had success with care.com. I have only had flakes. Um, and then just on the topic of flakes, like I've had my heart broken a couple of times looking for nannies and it always makes me like feel for people who have to hire anybody. It's like the amount of ghosting that is done is just.
00:28:13
Speaker
I know. I had a connection with this girl. This was looking for TJ's current part-time nanny. I was obsessed with her. I checked her references. She came and visited. I was like, this is it.
00:28:31
Speaker
She told me straight up, she was like, I can't wait to work for your family. We bonded outside of even TJ. I knew her life plan. I was going to be mentoring her. I was like, oh my god, this girl is going to be in our family now.
00:28:48
Speaker
ghost, just like didn't hear from her after I was checking in to like solidify our start date. Nothing. And then it was like, you end up like triple texting, quadruple texting, calling. I'm just like, I felt really good about this in my gut, but the fact that she's not responding to me is a red flag. Like, yeah, I need someone who's reliable. And then it was like,
00:29:14
Speaker
she reached back out and was like family emergency, you know, like, I'm so sorry, family emergency, not going to be able to start for a little while. And I was like, that's okay. Like, thank you for communicating. Like you just have to communicate with me. And then we went through that again. And then she was like, I found another job.
00:29:33
Speaker
And I was like, what the? I thought we were soulmates. It hurts really bad when that happens. And I feel like it's not an abnormal experience. Like what's that saying? You got to kiss some frogs before you find your prince. Yeah, but this is something I'm not going to go like too deep on a tangent on this. I know Shannon, I've talked to you about this many, many, many, many, many times.
00:29:58
Speaker
And I think this is somehow in my future, but I don't know exactly what it looks like or anything.
Qualities and Expectations of Nanny Candidates
00:30:04
Speaker
But the nanny industry is something I feel pretty passionate about, and it is an industry that, in my opinion, needs a full overhaul. I think being a nanny should be a full-fledged career. Childcare is so limited in this country, and it is something that is needed.
00:30:25
Speaker
But there is no regulation really around nannying. There's no official training. There's no official certification other than being like CPR certified and things like that. There's no guarantee that your nanny is, you know, knows the developmental milestones and what should be done to nurture those. And I think there is an opportunity out there. I don't know if you're an investor listening.
00:30:53
Speaker
I have some ideas. I don't know. I think there's an opportunity for there to be a national certification something for nannies to just make it more of a legitimate career. I think sometimes nannies, it tends to be people who are afraid of the corporate world, afraid of that commitment.
00:31:16
Speaker
There's a lot of flaky nannies, a lot of flaky babysitters, and it's giving nannies a bad name. As someone who prided themselves on being a good nanny, and I truly was passionate about that career genuinely, I want to make nannies legit again.
00:31:37
Speaker
And I don't know. I think it's sad that the amount of times I hear about people that have that exact experience that you guys both had. There's a lot of ghosting. There's a lot of lack of communication. And I don't know. I wish almost I could do an experiment where I interview these nannies to figure out what is it? Is it just that a better opportunity lands on your plate?
00:32:05
Speaker
Is it that you know, I think at least in our area, there is such a high demand for nannies like everyone is going to be a good employer and paying competitive rates.
00:32:21
Speaker
because they need childcare. I mean, I think it's part of the childcare crisis to your point, Candice. People can't get into daycare or they can't get into a convenient daycare. I mean, I think having a nanny is also expensive, but then when you start to add multiple children, it kind of starts to be like, well, it might be worth it to pay for a nanny. But the economics of it aside,
00:32:50
Speaker
I think there really is just like a high demand. And if you are a good qualified nanny, you kind of like have your pick of what family you want to work for. But if you are good and qualified, you should be able to text back, communicate, all those things. But side note, I think that's a
00:33:08
Speaker
like a really brilliant business idea. Like I know they have those really high end nanny camps that like Europeans go to where they're like, go live at nanny camp for a while and like get trained on everything. I mean, I'm not going to be hiring those nannies because those are like,
00:33:24
Speaker
very legit, but if there was some kind of like, I'm like nanny care certified, where you know, they have like the basics built in, they have a certain level of experience. That's what Southern centers is. I mean, they go through nanny training. That's why I'm like, I don't care how much it is. Like I'm not doing what I did last time. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
00:33:48
Speaker
So we're using an agency for, we use an agency, Carolina birth and wellness for our doulas. So we did it last time with TJ for our birth doula.
00:34:00
Speaker
which is amazing. You need to have an episode with birth doulas also. I got a message about that. Someone asking about if I used a doula and if we could talk about what that is, like she doesn't really know. So that's an episode idea for the future. I can't hit up my doula. She's coming over soon for us to talk about my birth plans. I'll be like, can we record? Ooh, you should.
00:34:22
Speaker
But then they also have postpartum doulas. So like people who really, they do short-term contracts and they're like, they know all about infants. A lot of them are, uh, lactation consultants as well. Um, and for them, you know, it's more expensive, but I'm just like, I don't want to go through the process of like figuring out if these people are legit. Cause it's, it is a newborn, like a brand new newborn and.
00:34:49
Speaker
It's an important time of life. So I'm willing to pay the agency a little bit extra to get somebody who I know has been vetted and I don't have to like do a bunch of research on. I feel like we're in the same boat. We're like, we've been scarred. We're going top dollar this time. I'm not dealing with it. Sorry.
00:35:08
Speaker
Okay, so now I want to ask you guys a question. What are some traits that you look for when you are interviewing and like what's a green flag? What's a red flag? What are some other than ghosting? Obviously, we've made that very clear, but what are some things you look for in a person? I'll let Shannon go because I've only interviewed like it was like two years ago, so yeah. So I think
00:35:35
Speaker
Gut instinct, Winnie and I just both told stories where our gut instinct was incorrect. But I feel betrayed by my own gut instinct. I have been bamboozled. Let us stray. I do think that there's something to be said for gut instinct. So I found our nannies through a Facebook group. And I think the Facebook groups are a double-edged sword.
00:36:00
Speaker
but I've had success with them. There's also a lot of like nanny shaming and bullying and, and parent shaming that goes on in the Facebook groups, which like maybe we could talk about another time where people will like post their, like, you know, post their job. They, they need a nanny, but they're offering, you know,
00:36:20
Speaker
$18 an hour and the nannies come for them. Not all the nannies, but these specific people and it's often the same people over and over again who are like, this is absurd. Nannying is a luxury and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, it's an open market. Let people post their jobs. But anyways, so we posted the job on Facebook and then
00:36:47
Speaker
you know, it's like, it's a hiring process. So I do a phone call with everybody who replies. And then you just kind of get a vibe for whether someone's gonna be cool or not. With like a 20 minute phone conversation. I just asked them about themselves, why, how they found themselves nannying, what kind of experience they have, like, to
00:37:09
Speaker
know how to feed toddlers who comfortable with diapering? Like, what do you do on a typical day with your current family? Those types of things. I want somebody who is going to be down to like go on adventures, and just play a lot. So I personally
00:37:27
Speaker
don't go for the older granny vibes because TJ is just way too active. So I'd rather have somebody a little bit younger who can get out and run around. And I make sure that I describe TJ to all of them and make sure that they know he is an active boy. And we play a lot. There's going to be a lot of playing. And then I check their references. You get a reference from everybody. Call people that they've nannied for before.
00:37:57
Speaker
I've had people that I've called for the references who are like, Oh yeah, I think I remember that girl. Okay. Obviously that's a red flag. Um, and then, so that person's disqualified. I want the, the referral to be glowing, like truly glowing.
Employment Practices and Maintaining Trust
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah. Usually I get a few of those and then those people come over and I think the real test is like watching them play with TJ. Yeah. So usually I do like a paid engagement where I'm like, come over for the morning, like we'll pay you and just like play with TJ. We do coffee and chat for a while. And then I let them play and I give them space, but I'm like checking in. I'm like kind of listening, just making sure they're like engaging and not being like on their phone basically the whole time.
00:38:46
Speaker
I feel like that's something when we were nannying, we didn't have social media. We didn't have an option to just zone out on our phone in the same room as the kid, which is something you have to look out for now.
00:39:00
Speaker
Does it seem like they like TJ? Does it seem like they like kids or are they just trying to earn a good hourly rate? So if you like kids and you think TJ is cute, I feel like that's a huge win for the credentials. And then the last thing is do text back. So it's mostly reliability and do you like TJ? Because if you have those two things, I will give you
00:39:30
Speaker
I will treat you so well. Like that's the other thing. Once Andrew and I have found people that we love, we're like, we got to treat these people like Queens because it is competitive. They don't have to be nannies. They could go back to teaching or nursing or whatever they did before. Like how do we make sure that they feel special? Like that's what everybody wants from their employer. So yeah, I feel like just going one step further. So we've had two kind of like,
00:39:58
Speaker
employees at this point that we put on payroll. We like keep it legit and above board.
00:40:06
Speaker
because we're paranoid. Um, yeah. So we do all of that. We put together a little contract after like a two month trial period, like, you know, come work for us for a couple of months, and then we're going to put you on a contract. And we put together a little Danny contract, put them on payroll and we guarantee their hours. So they get paid basically like.
00:40:29
Speaker
direct deposit, like you would get paid at your regular job. If we leave town, they get paid. If they need to go to the doctor, they have PTO. We just try and keep it legit so that they also feel like they need to show up and be reliable.
00:40:49
Speaker
Um, I think that the, everything you're saying is like what nannies want from the perspective of a nanny of a former nanny. Like I, all of that sounds amazing. And I think you guys have done a good job. I was going to say, I'm like, are you hiring? Cause.
00:41:06
Speaker
I'm intrigued. And I like TJ. Yeah, I love TJ. I'd love to play with him all day. I think that's whenever I did talk to girls in my group who were hiring a nanny, that was always the questions of like, do you give them sick days? Do you give them PTO? What happens if you travel? It's those logistic questions that I think a lot of people have. But I think that the way that you guys do it is the best way.
00:41:34
Speaker
If you want to keep your nanny, like you said, as a competitive market, you need to make them feel legit and make them feel like they want to show up for work. And that is like feeling valued. And I think everything you just said is what makes nannies feel valued. Yeah, it hasn't felt like we're overpaying at any point because we ended up with very legit people. Now, if
00:42:04
Speaker
I don't think this is going to happen, but if one day like our current nanny, Irena, who's a little bit newer, but she's going great. Like I really trust her. It's all working well, but if she like stops showing up or is like taking advantage or I don't feel like she's like fully in then it's like I have because I've
00:42:24
Speaker
put forward effort in making it legit. I feel like I do have a leg to stand on to be like, what's going on here? Like, do we need to? Yeah. And I think the way I would approach it is just like what's going on, you know? Yeah. Like people go through stuff and blah, blah, blah. When you have somebody that's like, you know, part time or a full time would be even more like somebody, you know, like a third leg between you and your husband, you know, like a tripod.
00:42:53
Speaker
You want to be able to have a relationship where you can just talk to them and be like, do you need to like take a break? You know, you build that trust like you do with any other employer. But I, I don't regret, you know, there's probably hours that we pay for that we don't necessarily like use, but I do feel like it's worth it because I have the. Like I've earned the right to have expectations because of the way we've set it up. Yes, totally.
00:43:23
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. That's our process. Yeah. I want to hear your side, Candice. You know, as a, as someone who was like a full-time nanny, like that was my career. I think what mattered to me the most was comfortability, I guess, or like the warmness of the family. I really, it mattered a lot to me to feel and be treated like a family member rather than like the help. Um,
00:43:52
Speaker
especially with how much I was working at the time. The family I nannied for, they were both doctors, so they worked a lot. And they were in that early part of their career, kind of, I would say. So they were hustling and props to them, they were working their butts off. But I was also working my butt off watching their child. And they really did make me feel like a part of the family.
00:44:20
Speaker
I felt like the communication was open. I felt like I could speak up and say something if I needed something specific for our day-to-day. They trusted me with a credit card to pick up anything we needed during the day because we were out and about in the city all the time. So if we needed to stop and grab lunch or I needed to pick up milk on the way home,
00:44:47
Speaker
They really did treat me like a part of the family and I felt like they trusted me and I trusted them.
00:44:56
Speaker
And again, I think they really built a foundation of open communication to where I felt like I could say something. And I felt like they could give me feedback too. And if I were to hire my own nanny, that would be a big foundational thing. It's like, we're a team. I want the communication to be open from your side and from my side.
00:45:22
Speaker
So yeah, and then just like you said, Shannon, like I feel like one of the things that made me feel really valued is just like that PTO and like I always got like a Christmas bonus.
Nanny's Role and Bond with Children
00:45:36
Speaker
All of that stuff really does matter. I think it makes you feel
00:45:42
Speaker
It just warms the cockles of your heart. Do you know what I mean? To get a bonus or get some validation. I'm a big Words of Affirmation girl, so to hear that they value me really mattered.
00:45:57
Speaker
And then again, it's like, I think part of it is the bond you have with the child. I think it was very obvious from the second I started nanting for that family that me and the little girl had a very strong bond from the get go. So I think they could feel that. I mean, truly, I felt like she was my child towards the end. I was
00:46:20
Speaker
You guys know I was absolutely head over heels in love with her. We kept in touch for a very, very, very long time. It's crazy. She's like 10 years old now, which is so wild because I started when she was... 10? Yeah. No. She was born in 2013. It's not make sense. The math is not math-ing. No. Yeah.
00:46:39
Speaker
She's a little baby. I know. I started before her first birthday, so that is so wild. And she was like, my child, I loved her so much. And I think that bond is important. Like you said, inviting someone in and watching them enjoy the time with your child is so important. And that is truly how I felt, Nanning. I enjoyed my time with her. I loved going to work.
00:47:08
Speaker
I think all of those things are important. The other thing I would say, if I were to hire a nanny myself based on how I was as a nanny, is someone who's proactive about things, whether that's proactive about picking up after themselves, or I felt like I was always, and this may be because I had a child development background, like my degree is in psychology with a minor in human development and family studies.
00:47:37
Speaker
I was always proactive about milestones and looking ahead and trying to suggest activities that maybe would foster those milestones. That is something I would probably look for in a nanny, someone who's just proactive about that stuff and is proactive about planning activities or crafts or something like that.
00:48:00
Speaker
I did that when I was a nanny and I felt like if I had a nanny who came in every day and was like, what are we doing today? And asked me as a mom with the mental load I already have, I'd be upset. Candice, you would be expensive, but a dream. Yeah, I know.
00:48:24
Speaker
You're the expensive nanny that we all want but can't afford. I truly loved being a nanny. I still say all the time. It's probably the most favorite job I've ever had. I loved working with the family and the kids and the one thing I loved about being a nanny and this is like
00:48:47
Speaker
kind of weird, but I loved, okay, you know, when you have a corporate job and you go home and you still, you're still like thinking about work, you can't ever like fully leave it. Your email is there, whatever. One of my favorite parts about being a nanny is that when you leave for the day, like you truly are leaving your work at work and you, there is a full disconnect there. That's one of my favorite things about being a nanny that I miss a lot. That's good to hear. Cause sometimes I'm like,
00:49:14
Speaker
How do they do it? You know, I'm like, it's it's a hard, long day. And then I'm like, well, I do it a lot of days and also they don't do it.
00:49:23
Speaker
the whole day. They're working, at least my nanny is working nine to five. And she has another family that she splits her time between because we're only part time. So she has her whole morning to herself chilling. I hope she's like relaxing, drinking tea, sleeping in. And then she goes home and she's done. So even if you do have a nanny from nine to five, you're parenting from seven to nine and then five to seven, 30 or eight.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah. So you're getting a good five or six hours in that they're taking a break for. And that's good because our childcare workers, everybody, they need breaks too. Yes. Oh my God. You did remind me of one thing that I loved.
00:50:03
Speaker
that maybe could be good advice for you guys as you... I don't know that a nanny is in our future just with our family and what we need, but I remember as I worked for the family I nannied for, as the child got older and her schedule started to change, she was gonna be going to a little school or whatever. They really brought me into the conversation. They made it very clear they wanted to keep me
00:50:32
Speaker
And they wanted me to give input about the schedule. And if they did put her in this half day school, would I be okay with an 11 a.m. to 7 p.m. schedule instead of something else? I loved that they had me in the conversation as well to give input because it was gonna affect my schedule. You know what I mean? Totally. And I guess that just goes back. I think that just goes to show.
00:51:02
Speaker
When you find somebody who you want to keep around, you keep that communication open and you will do anything. I feel like if you... I don't know how many nannies we have listening to this, but if you are all the things Candice just said she is and the things that we've been talking about, families will bend over backwards to make sure that you're happy and that you're included in all the important conversations.
00:51:28
Speaker
Well, it just goes back, okay, when we were to backtrack a little bit and to talk about the ghosting thing, one of the things that came to my head, because you had said like the market is hot, nannies kind of have their pick, but if they were smart and trained on these sorts of things, they would leverage that for negotiation and to be taught the tools
00:51:47
Speaker
to navigate that and negotiate for themselves and make it an even sweeter deal. But I think nannies aren't equipped sometimes with that mindset of like, how can I communicate this effectively and use it to my advantage?
Babysitters vs. Family in Childcare
00:52:03
Speaker
I don't think that a lot of nannies are equipped with that.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yes, I wish the one girl I'm talking about, I wish she was just like, hey, I have another offer that looks really good. Right. I'd be like, oh, well, it's good about it. Yeah, exactly. But I just don't think they. Yeah. I mean, that's a scary conversation to have. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just interesting. I think maybe because we're older, it's like, oh, this is leverage. But when you're like early 20s, that's kind of a scary combo. Yeah, true. Maybe I should host a master class negotiating for Nanny.
00:52:36
Speaker
Candice always, she's always, uh, wheeling and dealing over. I also wanted to just like say, we've been talking mostly about like people who watch your kid during the day for like, you know, a long, long part of the day, like your nannies. And then with babysitters, I'm not doing all that just FYI. I don't want everyone to think I'm going like that above and beyond for people who are coming over to babysit.
00:53:06
Speaker
We probably have like three or four babysitters on rotation. I call their references and make sure they're not Looney Tunes. But like, if they're only playing with TJ for a little bit and then like putting him to bed, after, you know, the first time kind of like getting comfortable with them, they're good.
00:53:24
Speaker
And they also don't pay them as much as I pay my nanny. Like they're not, they're just getting cash. Yeah. It's a different, it's different. Yeah. It's a different situation because it's like, like, I dunno, for some reason my brain always goes to like food and eating, but like if they get a cookie once, uh, you know, when the babysitter's here, like that's fine. If they're getting cookies all day, every day with a nanny, like that's a different, you know,
00:53:49
Speaker
And I mean that in like in a short period for one time thing, like I don't really care as long as she is safe and is put to bed around the time I would like her to. And you know what I mean? It's very I feel like I'm chill about one off babysitters to be obvious. Have you have you ever used anyone outside of your family to babysit? No. Oh, my God. I want to talk a little bit about like. Yeah, that's crazy. I've never.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's crazy. But like, because you're not paying them, can you tell them what to do? Like, I don't know. I feel like when my parents babysit, I'm more like
00:54:32
Speaker
Oh, I'm not. My mom hates me. So sorry, mom. That's what I was going to say. It depends on the family member. And I feel like I could do a whole episode on this, honestly. But I feel very comfortable telling my mom what to do. And I think she does a really like my mom props to her. She's incredible. She's incredible with Alice. She's also just.
00:54:57
Speaker
very open to all of my parenting and all of that. Like she never pushes back on anything. Other family members on the other hand, like sometimes it gets tough. Like I feel a little uncomfy telling them certain things or, you know, especially with like the older generation, sometimes they, they hit you back with like, Oh, well, you know, I raised children, right? I'm like,
00:55:25
Speaker
I get it but when you raise kids in 1990 or 1970 it's different than it's different than like this generation of kids. Also this is Alice like this is not your kid. So sometimes it's like oh well we used to do this I'm like I understand that you used to do that but this is how we're doing it now and sometimes that can be an uncomfortable situation and so I think my go-to for that is to just
00:55:54
Speaker
over plan, which is again, adding to my mental load. But if we have a babysitter that's not my mom or, you know, a very, very close family member, again, usually it's always family, but maybe not like immediate family. Um, I will prep her dinner and so all they have to do is literally hand her the plate.
00:56:15
Speaker
You know what I mean? To where there's no opportunity for them to step in and like insert their own like dominance. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. To me, it sounds like I do all that stuff too. But what I have with family that I don't have with paid sitters is like, I just worry more about my family having a bad time with him because he's a toddler and he is like going crazy.
00:56:42
Speaker
Like when I'm leaving the house and I can hear him crying and screaming and he's with my sister or my parents, I'm like, I'm sorry. But when it's with a babysitter, I'm like, you're getting paid by, like, I just don't have the guilt with babysitters. And with my family, I'm always like, I don't know. I still have this thing and probably because they're not local, so they're not with him all the time. Like Karen is.
00:57:07
Speaker
I'm just like, dang, I hope they're having a nice time. It's funny. I've never really had that thought, but maybe it like I, when I say people are truly like clamoring to watch her that that really is how it is. Like people are always like, and by people, I mean family are always like, I want it. I want to, I want to babysit. I want to babysit. So I feel like everyone steps into the role of babysitting for Alice as like, this is my
Screen Time Policies and Childcare Dynamics
00:57:34
Speaker
moment. This is my privilege.
00:57:36
Speaker
which is such a blessing. Okay. But so I just have never thought that it also Alice isn't Alice is a pretty good toddler with especially like her worst times are with me. Like her worst times are with mom and dad with guests and out and about and everything like she's so good most of the time. So yeah, I just feel like I've never had that thought or feeling. I don't know. I just.
00:58:03
Speaker
Parenting hack live where all of your family lives and watching and also have the first grandchild I'm actually so interested to see how all of this changes with a second because it's a whole different ballgame Oh to watch two kids. Yeah, like a newborn or an infant and a toddler I think
00:58:28
Speaker
I always wonder, are we going to have to split them up to where my mom watches the baby and my in-laws get Alice? Is it too much for one person? I'm so interested to see how that is going to go because I just don't know. I don't think I will know until the new baby is here and I see her temperament and what she's like, but I think it's going to change.
00:58:54
Speaker
I feel like, you know, Andrew and I are pretty strict on screen time, I would say, compared to the average. It's just one of our things.
00:59:04
Speaker
I just know that's going to slip when the second baby comes. And maybe it's something that we save as much as we can for babysitters. And like when grandma and grandpa comes, like it's a special treat. TJ gets to watch movies, which he'll be like hell fuck it. Yeah, I never get to do this. And, you know, that'll make things easier. But yeah, there will have to be some kind of. I think that that's actually like what we'll end up doing is being like,
00:59:33
Speaker
When you have babysitters, you watch movies and that's what makes it fun for you. Oh, he'll love that. Well, I think this conversation has actually been so helpful. I hope that's helpful for our listeners and my DMs are always open if I think our DMs are always open if any of you have any specific questions, but this was such a good episode.
00:59:57
Speaker
Hopefully, I feel like it's inspiring me to do some like holiday thank you stuff for my I know that's so nice. And I really can't wait to pick your brain when I'm about to interview. Yep, I'm here for you. Thank you. All right, that was really good. Love you guys. Love you. Talk to you later.
01:00:15
Speaker
Thank you so much for being a part of our mom group chat. New episodes drop every Tuesday. And don't forget, the group chat is blowing up on our Instagram page. So make sure you're following along over there. All right, gotta go. My toddler just put something in her mouth.