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Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders (2018)
338 Plays2 years ago
Our regular DC animation contributor Stacy Dooks is back again. In this episode, we welcome back Adam West, Burt Ward, and Julie Newmar in all their campy glory. It's time to discuss Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders! We share our memories of Batman '66, how this movie honors the legacy of the TV show, and have fun discussing the little self-parodies all throughout.
Listen to Stacy on The Fanboy Power Hour podcast
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Transcript
Health and Smoothies
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm not as young as I used to be, which means I can't treat my body the way I once did. In fact, last year's medical checkup didn't turn out the best, so I decided I needed to change things up and start eating healthier. One of the ways I do that is by making smoothies. But smoothie shop prices can be pretty high, and making them at home always seem like a pain. You gotta pull the blender out, find the right attachments, set everything up, and then cleaning everything is annoying, making it difficult to quickly whip up a breakfast smoothie in the morning.
BlendJet 2 Review
00:00:29
Speaker
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00:00:45
Speaker
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00:01:02
Speaker
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Riddle Time
00:01:45
Speaker
Poor people have it. Rich people need it. If you eat it, you die. What is it? Nothing. I can't come up with anything either, Batman. No, Chief. The answer is nothing. How can nothing be a clue when it's not even a thing? In this case, nothing is certainly something, Robin.
Batman & Robin Mystery
00:02:07
Speaker
Let's see. Zero.
00:02:09
Speaker
Zilch? Goose egg? Precisely. Farmer Jones delivered a shipment of his prize-winning goose eggs to the local market just last week. They're after eggs?
00:02:20
Speaker
It's not what was delivered, Commissioner, rather when. Last Tuesday, which was also the night of the total lunar eclipse. You see, it's really quite simple. The Atomic Energy Laboratory, headed by our old friend Professor Nichols, just opened a new wing dedicated to the science of total lunar eclipses. And I'll bet my cow, the laboratories where those felonious fiends are going to strike next. Of course. How could I not see it myself?
00:02:50
Speaker
Come on, Robin. There's a bad moon on the rise. To the Batmobile! What would we do without him, Commissioner? I shudder to even consider it, Ohara.
Intro to Superhero Cinephiles
00:03:08
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Barry Constantine, and welcoming back our frequent DC animation commentator, and that's Stacey Dukes. Stacey, how you doing today?
00:03:18
Speaker
Hey, I'm doing well. Very, very chuffed to be on the show. I think this is gonna be a fun one, so.
00:03:22
Speaker
This is gonna be a fun one, yeah. We were looking for something after you came on for the Superman one and I saw this one, HBO Max, and I'd been meaning to watch this for years, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to do that. But before we dive too much into that, and people already know who you are and everything, you've been on the show enough times, but let's talk about what you're into lately. What kind of stuff has been grabbing your interest? Movies, TV, comics, what is it?
00:03:51
Speaker
Well, the most recent piece of like superhero related media that I saw was Shazam!
Shazam! Fury of the Gods Review
00:03:56
Speaker
Fury of the Gods. I recently caught that in the in the theater. And I have to say that it's it's quite quite enjoyable, quite quite fun. It's got a very, very much a
00:04:07
Speaker
a feel of like the, it's got a bit of that power of Shazam kind of mixed with the new vibe that Jeff Johns brought to the Shazam universe as well, with the Marvel family being, you know, as big as it is, although they still don't quite have that name yet. That's the one part that they kept teasing it, where like Freddy calls himself Captain Everypower, and then he refers to Billy as Captain Everypower Jr.
00:04:37
Speaker
This is a fun bit, but I'm like, you're so close. You're so close to getting it. And they don't obviously, but there's some fun bits of business in it. And you get to see, you know.
00:04:47
Speaker
Shazam fighting a dragon, which is no bad thing and you got like you've got Helen Mirren and Lucy Liu Playing villains playing the daughters of Atlas and they're ostensibly trying to get the power of Shazam back To kind of kickstart their world slash get revenge on the world of man so that's that's really interesting and and you kind of see how Billy's been dealing with the
00:05:10
Speaker
with his new family dynamic, where at first in the first movie, he didn't really have time for them. But now he really wants to hold on to them so badly, even though they're all just kind of starting to drift and do their own thing. But he's dealing with that fact. And he's about to turn 18, so he's about to age out of the foster system. And he's concerned
AI in Creative Writing
00:05:28
Speaker
that Victor and Rose are going to kick him out of the house. So there's a bunch of fun bits of business there. And they actually do some fun stuff with the Rock of Eternity, where I was like, oh, that's really neat.
00:05:38
Speaker
It's a lot bigger than just the throne room. It's kind of like the TARDIS. It's got all these different things and the room with all the doors and a hidden occult library and prison cells. It's actually pretty neat. So yeah, it's a shame we'll never get to see that seventh throne filled because somebody doesn't like the idea of being in Shazam for some reason, although his character directly ties into it, but we're not here to talk.
00:06:09
Speaker
I'm just going to put my anger about that in the happy box and we'll move on. But if you want to see Shazam Fury of the Gods and you see it played in a matinee, yeah, by all means go. It's real fun, I would recommend. How do you compare it to the first one? Is it better, not as good, or on par?
00:06:28
Speaker
It's as good, maybe a scooch better, because everybody's a little more assured now. We all know the drill. They've all got the powers. You get a chance to see everybody kind of bring things to the table. And you get to see the parents come a little more into the fore. You get to see, I don't want to spoil too much, but the rumors of the wizard's death might be slightly exaggerated. So we get to see some fun with the wizard and Billy and their dynamic. So yeah, I would recommend it. And if you've managed to avoid spoilers, there are some,
00:06:56
Speaker
there's some stuff in here where you're like, oh, well, it's logical that this would happen and this person would show up. So okay, I get it. So, but if you know, you know, but it's fine. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, I've avoided. I haven't been trying to, but just managed to avoid spoilers. Like I'm not a big I was never a big Shazam Captain Marvel guy. I enjoyed the first one and well enough. Black Adam's a different story, but
00:07:21
Speaker
Mostly I went to see Black Adam just for Pierce Brosnan as Dr. Fate, and I was happy with that. On that, I was happy with that, so I got that. If they wanted to do a Hawkman movie, I would be all about it, because Hawkman was real cool in that movie. He was underutilized. Very underutilized. I was looking forward to seeing him, but I was kind of disappointed by what we got in there. I was very happy with what we got with Dr. Fate, though, so Brosnan did not disappoint on that aspect.
00:07:49
Speaker
Um, but yeah, and
New Mutants Comics Discussion
00:07:51
Speaker
like this one, I think I'm just waiting for it to come on to HBO max. I'm not in any rush to see it. Uh, my wife actually enjoyed Shazam more than I did. So, um, but we'll probably have to wait until it comes out on Japanese rentals so we can get a Japanese subtitles for her. That is, that is fair. Uh, it is, it is, it is enjoyable. Yeah.
00:08:11
Speaker
But for my part what I've been into lately is I just started well two things actually first off I've been playing around with chat GPT and just as a writer It's been it's been really cool because like I plug in like, you know I've got a bunch of these kind of like half baked ideas floating around in my head I'm like, I'll be cool to do this. It'd be cool to do this. I
00:08:32
Speaker
So I just type it into chat GPT. I'm like, what do you think of this idea? And it gives me like a whole bunch of suggestions and stuff like that. And it's like, oh, that's cool. I didn't think about that. Or yeah, that makes sense. It's been really cool to play around with and just to get some ideas and stuff like that and stuff that I might be building up into something else. But it is cool to use to help spur creativity and all that kind of stuff. Not having it write the stuff for you, but just get some ideas and get some
00:09:00
Speaker
Uh, get the creative juices flowing a little bit. Hmm. All right. Okay. And a little leery of the AI, but I could see it. I could see a case being argued for it as kind of like a creative prompt, kind of like those boxes of writer prompts you see at bookstores. Right. Yeah. And then you, you take that scenario and just kind of run with it. So.
00:09:20
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Although it works better because you can, you know, you can bring it back. And so it's like it gives me some ideas. I'm like, I don't like that. Do you have what if we did this instead and it will rework those ideas based on what you what you've inputted. So it's it's really good. It works really well. It's it's I've been pretty impressed with it so far. I mean, that's that's a whole different story from like the, you know, the the image AI, which is a whole different thing because that's been trained, you know. Yeah.
00:09:48
Speaker
We're not going to get into that here. We're not going to serve. Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:53
Speaker
But the other thing is I picked up, there's a new mutant sale on Amazon at the time we're recording this. So I picked up the first two epic collections and then also the more recent series, the one, first the Zeb Wells and the Abnett and Lanning stuff. So I've been reading the Zeb Wells stuff and I was never a new mutants guy. That was like, that's like my one blind spot in X-Men is new mutants X-Force.
00:10:19
Speaker
but I started reading the Zebwell stuff and it's really enjoyable. I've been really digging it and I'm looking forward to going through that and then eventually going back to the early stuff as well. Yeah, New Mutants is one of those things but I was never a huge ex-guy and even when like in the 90s when it was on fire and I think everybody legally had to have
00:10:43
Speaker
the Chris Claremont, Jim Lee, X-Men number one. I think it was the law. I think they issued it to you whenever you moved into a new neighborhood, like packets of tide. Yeah, I was never the hugest guy. I mean, there are individual X-Men I like. My favorites are like Colossus, Nightcrawler, but I mainly kept it like X-Factor when Peter David was writing it and George was doing the art. That was more my speed.
00:11:07
Speaker
But yeah, yeah, the New Mutants, I, they've always been in kind of my peripheral vision, especially when they went to like, I think I remember reading the annual where they went to Asgard. Cause there was that whole bit where Danny Moonstar was a Valkyrie. So that was, that was pretty wild. So comics kids. Um, yeah, that was, that was interesting. I wouldn't mind necessarily dipping back maybe in that whole era where like.
00:11:31
Speaker
Arthur Adams was on the book, and then, you know, Leifelt showed up for the first time, and it was like a big deal, like, oh, crap, here comes the man called Cable. What's his deal? And then, and then the 90s happened. Yeah. He just came in in a big, bad way. Yeah. Yeah, you know, Zeb Wells has really kind of impressed me lately. I was, you know,
00:11:52
Speaker
I was put off by his work early on, because he did that reality TV show, New Warriors thing. But he's done now this, he's doing a run on Amazing Spider-Man, and I read the first two books of that, I think, and I really like those. And now this series, the new mutant series that I'm reading now, it's really good. It's really kind of turning around my impression of him. That Spider-Man run, that's the one with Romita Jr. on the art, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, where they do that cool arc with Tombstone.
00:12:21
Speaker
where it's like, you think that tombstone's going straight? But then you find out that, no, he's played Peter like a Stradivarius and has him take down all the roses thugs. And then Peter's like, oh, dip. Yeah, yeah, that's some good stuff. Yes, yeah. I've only read the first two books on that, so I'm still waiting for other stuff to come on sale.
00:12:43
Speaker
I really like those. I really enjoyed those. But that's not what we're here to talk about.
Batman Return of the Caped Crusaders Discussion
00:12:48
Speaker
Today, we're here to talk about Batman Return of the Cape Crusaders, which is an animated follow up to the Batman 66 series, which sees Adam West, Burt Ward, and Julie Newmark coming back and reprising their voices as Batman, Robin, and Catwoman.
00:13:07
Speaker
And this was also followed up by a sequel, Batman versus Two-Face, which saw William Shatner as Two-Face doing an idea that they had had in the series for Two-Face and just never got a chance to do it. And they finally did it in this animated form instead. Now, I haven't seen that one. We're just talking about the first one here. But before we jump too big into that, let's talk about
00:13:28
Speaker
you know our histories with Batman 66 because we talked on off mic a little bit uh yesterday about this and you would you talked briefly about your history with Batman 66 so let's dive into that
00:13:42
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's kind of always been in the peripheral vision of myself as a young nerdling. I mean, I grew up with superheroes in the home. I learned to read, thanks to the Fisher Price read-along books that were based on DC property, Superman from Krypton to Metropolis, Batman and Robin in the case of the Laughing Sphinx.
00:14:01
Speaker
And, you know, that book in particular was kind of very kind of influenced by the 60s show, but they would utilize classical music for the score. That's where I first heard Night on Bald Mountain, because they use Night on Bald Mountain as Batman's theme. So that was real cool. Makes sense, especially if you've seen Fantasia, like holy moly. But then, yeah, mainly with a 66 show.
00:14:24
Speaker
It was on a Canadian television show called Switchback, which was kind of like a talk show format, like variety show format geared to a younger crowd. And every episode, they would feature a Batman serial, which was one of the episodes from the Batman 66 show, which always ended on a cliffhanger because they'd always be in some predicament and it would get resolved within the first two minutes of the new episode.
00:14:51
Speaker
That was how I kind of came on board with it. And, you know, when you're a kid, it's all just input, right? Like you love Batman. You don't notice that the show is obviously meant to be ridiculous, but it's grounded by West and Ward's performance, just taking it deadly serious.
00:15:07
Speaker
Like, for older cats, it's hilarious. For younger kids, it's still, it's Batman. He's beating up the Joker. Why does the Joker have a mustache? Who cares? It's the Joker. Like, and they fight and they have crazy situations and it's incredible. And when you grow older, you know, there's invariably that period where I was like, oh man, this show's just dumb. It's stupid baby stuff. And look at Tim Burton's Batman is so much better. I mean, look at that Dutch tilt.
00:15:35
Speaker
Look at that over-the-top performance from Jack Nicholson. Look at the Batmobile. Wait a minute. It's got a rocket engine. Wait a minute. This is suspiciously similar. And then those, that familiarity would only increase as the original Batman movies went on and the Bill Dozier influence got cranked up to 11 once we hit the July Rare. Yeah.
00:15:59
Speaker
So yeah, I adore it. And when the comics came back, when the web series, Jeff Parker was doing the writing on it, and then you had all those great crossovers like Wonder Woman 77, Batman and Robin Meet the Man from Uncle, Batman and the Green Hornet, where they actually get to meet for the first time. It's written by Kevin Smith and Ralph Garment of all people.
00:16:18
Speaker
But it's actually pretty fun, like you get to see them have a full on team up in a comic book form, which is a follow up to their actual team up when they met each other in their crossover episode, which was like, that was the event that was Avengers before Avengers was Avengers. So right. Yeah, we're John, Steve and him appeal, of course. But I digress. Yeah. Batman 66 is a lot of fun. And as I get older and I kind of like.
00:16:41
Speaker
I don't necessarily mind a grim dark story. My brother Ryan likes to paint me as the silver Bronze Age guy that like, you know, you put a jet pack on there or like a fin on someone's head and you're in like fin. And yeah, I'll eat that up.
Nostalgia for Batman 66
00:16:53
Speaker
I mean, I love Adam Strange. I love all those 60s, 70s characters. And I do like, I like a dark superhero story. I like it redeemable, incorruptible. Gail Simone's leaving a megalopolis is good. I thought Brightburn was actually pretty okay. Oh yeah, I like that. I thought that movie was real good.
00:17:11
Speaker
Um, yeah, so yeah, I don't mind a dark superhero tale, but there's just something nice about being able to go back to superheroes at their core, which is just big over the top stories that are meant to be, you know, inclusive to kids. Don't, don't necessarily talk down to kids because the 66 Batman for all its silliness and for all the archiness, never talked down to the kids. Like they always played it like,
00:17:35
Speaker
They always played their hearts out on the ice and they made a great show that kids could enjoy and adults could kind of laugh at, but secretly behind your cynical veneer, you like it too, because you like Batman when he's big and friendly and nice. You like superheroes when they're nice. That's the whole thing. They're meant to help people. That's just my opinion. Batman 66, I eat it up with a spoon these days. I absolutely love it. And this movie,
00:18:02
Speaker
when I got a chance to watch it. And when I watched it again, and as I mentioned to you off mic, I have taken many notes. Many notes. This might be a long one, guys. You might wanna get a snack or something in the fridge. But yeah, it's real. Well, speaking of the light and dark comparison, have you ever read the wrong Earth comic book series?
The Wrong Earth Comic Series
00:18:23
Speaker
Oh, absolutely I have, Dragonfly Man and the Dragonfly. And just like the whole notion of like,
00:18:30
Speaker
Yes, you are initially meant to think of, oh, one is the bad one, the other is the good one. But then when they switch earths over a period of time, you begin to see that they have more in common with each other than you might think. And yeah, it's really fun. And they the art, the art is incredible. I forget who did.
00:18:50
Speaker
angle yes yes he is he's great he manages to evoke like batman sixty six in the arkham games at the same time so absolutely i would recommend that if you're looking for something in a similar vein but one that plays around with the the premise yeah i would absolutely recommend the wrong earth yeah um that's a that's a great series uh i remember reading that one of my favorite moments of the one that sticks out in my mind is when um the
00:19:15
Speaker
the dark version of Dragonfly is in the Dragonfly Man universe and he's in the car and he's talking to his computer and he's like, he's like, where's the location of it? And they tell him exactly what the, it's like, holy shit. Oh my God, it's like the bullet repellent spray or whatever. I'm just like, I love this, this is so good. It's like, is this for real?
00:19:40
Speaker
Oh man, anything in an aerosol can with just a big bat hyphen whatever this is. I'm like, yes, yes. Please slather more of it on like gravy on my mashed potatoes. I'm here for it.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, I had a I I had a love-hate relationship with Batman
Comparing Batman Styles
00:20:01
Speaker
66 for a while because you know, like I said when I was a kid to it was there had reruns out of it when I I think was on fire on one of the Fox affiliates and it's like in the afternoon I'd watch you know, they'd have like an episode or two on like the local Fox station and
00:20:18
Speaker
And as a kid, this is the thing that always made me laugh whenever studio heads would get all up in arms about, we can't have two versions of the same character. People would be confused. And I'm just like, bitch, when I was a little kid, we had Batman 66 reruns. We had Batman 89 on VHS, Batman the Animated Series on TV. And I had no problem at all differentiating from these three different versions.
00:20:45
Speaker
Oh yeah, when I was a kid, my dad would buy me comics from the corner store, like on the spinner rack. And you know, there's no continuities, there's no nothing. So I remember one of the earliest comics I ever read was like All Star Squadron with like,
00:20:59
Speaker
the Golden Age Superman. And they would explain at the top of every issue that, hey, this is a parallel Earth where everything happened a little earlier and they're in World War II. So I was never confused. The whole notion of like, I know Marv Wolfman and the various creative cats who did Crisis on Infinite Earths and then built Legends and all that stuff afterward were like, well, we felt that it might be a little too confusing for the kids. And it's like,
00:21:24
Speaker
Buddy, I knew like I knew from I knew from jump and I was like seven or eight years old. And I could figure I could tell the difference between the modern day Superman and the, you know, Earth two Superman because Earth two was Jerry Ordway. Earth one was Kurt Swan. And those are very different.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah. And you know what? The only people who find this stuff confusing are adults. Like kids have no problem differentiating between it. We're just like, okay, yeah, there's this Batman here and he's Adam West and he's dressed in this ridiculous costume and he's obviously not in the shape to be wearing something that tight. And then we got Michael Keaton.
00:22:04
Speaker
Let's be honest. I love Adam West. He's not ripped. He's not on the cover of Men's Hope. He's just an athletic guy. There's no steamed chicken and tuna diet in him over there. He's not dehydrating. He and Burton Ward are not dehydrating.
00:22:21
Speaker
Right, yeah. And then over here, we got Michael Keaton in the molded bat suit with the rubber abs and all that kind of stuff. And it's all dark and gothic. He can't turn his head. He's doing the bat turn. He can barely move. And then we got Kevin Conroy on TV. And they got Batman jumping all around in this art deck. And I'm like, I have no problem telling the difference between these. This is obviously Adam West. This is obviously Michael Keaton. This is obviously Kevin Conroy. I had no problem. I was not confused at all as a kid.
00:22:52
Speaker
Grant Morrison has a great quote about this in their book Supergods where it's just like, children are not confused by this because they know something that most adults have lost track of and that is that that man is not real.
Adam West's Batman Appreciation
00:23:09
Speaker
And they don't need to worry about who puts the air in the Batmobile's tires because they know the Batmobile is not really real in the way that so many of us want it to be. And I was like, okay, that hurts me as a guy who owns...
00:23:24
Speaker
multiple editions of DC Comics, Who's Who, and the official handbook of the Marvel universe, where I need those stats, Grant. I need them, because they help my soul. But I understand what you're saying, Grant. Super Gods is amazing. I read that book. And I've quoted that thing on this show before. Adults ask stupid fucking questions. Who puts air in the Batmobile's tires? Nobody puts air in it. It's a fucking imaginary world.
00:23:53
Speaker
God, I love Grant Morrison. If they ever do a multiversity thing, like, oh my God, I'm here. Or we should, oh my God, if we did multiversity. First of all, that'd be a multi-part epic in your other book club. But we'll stick a pin in that, because that's for the Patreon. We'll stick with it. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. They're dealing with it right here. Yeah, as I got older, I started to develop, I started to hate Batman 66 because, you know,
00:24:20
Speaker
There was a time when, you know, anybody who nowadays, not so much, but anybody who was coming up of age in like the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, maybe even the early to the early aughts, to a certain extent, there was this tendency in the mainstream.
00:24:36
Speaker
whenever something comics related, I swear to God, every fucking article that had something to do with superheroes or comic books, it was like editorially mandated. It was like a congressional, I don't know, it was like a law that every single article had to start with biff, bam, zap, comic books aren't for kids anymore, or some bullshit like that.
00:24:57
Speaker
Every fucking time. And it was just like every goddamn time. And then seeing like everybody's vision of comic books being Batman 66 as the basis. And me trying to be there like screaming to the void, comic books aren't like this. They're serious. There's good stuff here. You know, we've got Watchmen, we've got V for Vendetta, Dark Knight Returns, you know, God Loves Man Kills, all this other, this is serious stuff. You should pay attention. And everyone's like bam bam zap. I'm like, fuck you, fuck Batman 66.
00:25:26
Speaker
fuck Bill Dozier. And that was my attitude for a long time. And then, which is why I had such a negative reaction to Batman and Robin when I first saw it. And then over time, you know, just like the Grinch Who Stole Christmas, you know, my, my teenage angst hard started to soften. I'm just started like, yeah, Batman 66, that movie, that slaps pretty hard. Like the bomb scene. It is one of the most
00:25:55
Speaker
It's one of my favorite pieces of physical comedy in the latter half of the 20th century. That's almost Buster Keaton-esque, Charlie Chaplin-esque, and Adam West sells the hell out of it. It's obviously just a giant paper mache bomb with a fistcracker in it, but you don't care because you're so invested. You can't let the blokes in front of the nuns, Batman. You can't let the duckies get hurt. Come on, Batman. Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb. Yes.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yes, Batman, we applaud in there. But then also what happens afterwards, like I can't believe, Robin's like, I can't believe you almost sacrificed your life to save that riffraff in the bar. They may be drunkards, Robin, but they're still human.
00:26:41
Speaker
You love it. You love to see it. Like all the little safety bits and public service bits that are laced throughout the Batman movie. God, I love it. Well, even like when he goes, because he has to ask Alfred to drive the Batmobile, because of course Robin can drive the Batmobile because there's never license. And then he asks Alfred, he's like, do you have your licensor in my wallet, sir? And it's like, good man. He's like, as if someone, some cop is going to pull over the fucking Batmobile.
00:27:05
Speaker
And then Alfred's driving around with the fucking eye mask on. With the domino mask on. Oh my god, yes. Under his glasses. Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Like, oh man. That's one of my notes for the movie. We'll get into it when we get into it, but Alan Napier. Oh my god. That man had an understated sense of comic timing, and he's just so perfect as Alfred.
00:27:30
Speaker
Amazing. I have to think that Efron Zimbales Jr., when he took over for Batman, the anime series, had to have been studying a couple of those classic 60s episodes. Oh, yeah. Because it just feels like they're of a continuum of just this nice mix of servile and snark. You know, I'm glad you mentioned it because, you know, just like whenever I read a Batman comic book, I hear Kevin Conroy's voice in my head. Anytime I see Alfred in a comic book, I hear Zimbales's voice in my head. Like he was just like the pitch perfect Alfred.
00:27:58
Speaker
the dry delivery of, I diapered your bottom, I bloody well ought to, sir. Like, so good. Oh my God, yes. By the way, I took the liberty of putting away your utility belt and your exploding gas balls. Sartre, you're the very model of sanity.
00:28:22
Speaker
All right, so let's talk about this movie. What did you feel, what was your thoughts after watching this the first time and then rewatching it this last time? Watching it the first time, I quite liked it, I quite enjoyed it, but I really think that the second viewing really made me fall in love with this movie in a big, bad way because it's just, it's so good in that, all right, folks, from the jump, you need to know that this movie
00:28:52
Speaker
is ridiculous. That is not a bug. That is a feature. You need to be aware that if you're coming into this movie, you need to know that much like Batman 66, the movie, this is more of that. So if you were like, this is not my cup of tea, you might want to consider finding a different film. But if you are on board for that, boy, howdy does this creative team just dive in. Like this was written by Mike Jelenic and James Tucker.
00:29:21
Speaker
and they put it all on the ice. I think that they might've thought that they only get the one, so let's just throw everything that we want, everything that we always wanted to see from 66 Batman, but if they had an unlimited budget and could just go completely ham, let's do this. I adore it on the second viewing, and I think it really holds up, and I think there's a lot of bits in this
00:29:50
Speaker
that are just fun in a way that they knew that if kids watch this, they would have a great time. Adults watching this are gonna have an amazing time. Because it's just basically like spot the references, spot the Easter eggs, enjoy the jokes, enjoy the banter, and good Lord, there's a lot of it, so.
00:30:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Love it. I love this movie to bits. So I've only seen it the one time, so I'm going to have to watch it a second time to see how my opinion changes of it based on that. But yeah, I dug it. I thought it was a lot of fun. What I loved especially, well, first off, I mean, Adam West, you know, God rest his soul now, but he had, even at the age, I'm not sure how old he was when he did this, but like in his 70s or 80s or something, has not missed a step, right? He's still just right on point in this.
00:30:36
Speaker
Oh yeah. Burt Ward, I was amazed. Burt Ward still had that youthful voice in it. I was amazed at how well he was able to, because when I heard, when I read that they'd be doing it, I'm like, okay, Adam West, I've heard his voice in other stuff, family guy and all that kind of stuff. I heard him when he was on the old edition of Kevin Smith's Fat Man on Batman.
00:30:57
Speaker
and just like that voice has stayed consistent throughout so I knew that but like Burt Ward he was a you know he was a kid when he did this young man or whatever and 20s right 20s and you know
00:31:11
Speaker
I wasn't so sure if he could still match that voice that he had back then, but he did a pretty damn good job. If you told me this was recorded in the 60s and it was like some lost soundtrack that then put animation to, I would have believed it. Julie Newmar, I think less so. I think she's definitely, her voice is definitely showing signs of age.
00:31:32
Speaker
I would argue that West also sounds a little more, his voice is a little craggier than it was back in the day. It still holds together reasonably well. It's not a deal breaker, but him and Noomar, they have aged a bit and it's visible in the recording.
00:31:50
Speaker
Not a deal breaker, it's just an observation that you make. But Ward is, Ward is close to perfect. Like holy crap. Like if you were to lay some of his dialogue in the 60s episode next to his dialogue in this movie, I would be hard pressed to tell which was which if he gave me a just, if I was unaware.
00:32:08
Speaker
Well, also, I think I got to give a shout out to Jeff Bergman, William Sellers, and Wally Wingert, who did The Joker, The Penguin, and The Riddler, respectively. And then Jim Ward is Commissioner Gordon, and Steve Webber is Alfred Pennyworth. All of those guys, because we didn't have those original actors, they're all, you know, they haven't, they're all long, long gone. But they
00:32:32
Speaker
If I didn't know those original actors were dead, with the exception of, I think it's a little bit less so with the Riddler, but with the others, I could have sworn those were the original guys. I could have sworn I was listening to Cesar Romero and Burgess Meredith. I thought they really did a great job with that. Yeah, I feel that the, I actually feel that Joker and Riddler are pretty close. Like the Frank Gorshin cadences are pretty close with the Riddler. The Penguin is good, but I just feel he doesn't quite have
00:33:01
Speaker
the zing of Burgess Meredith. There's just something there that's a little lacking. Again, not a deal breaker. He does an amazing job with what he's been given. And I did like the bit where like, I think the subliminal was like when they introduced all the comic covers with the various villains. It's like, okay, this might not be a one-to-one with what you remember. Because of course, the most egregious thing about the Joker is that the Joker does not have the mustache. I was like, how dare you? How dare you have the supposed thing in that too.
00:33:28
Speaker
without the mustache. But then I was like, well, maybe it's a likeness thing. They don't want to make them look too much like Cesar Romero, or they might have to pay for some likeness rights. But I was just like, how dare you, sir, come here and keep the one bit about the 60s Joker that is timeless and delightfully insane. Is that, of course, the Joker has a mustache, but it is also covered in the makeup.
00:33:52
Speaker
which I never noticed as a kid, but as an adult, I can't not notice it. Like every time I watch Batman 66 and every time the Joker's on screen, my eyes just go straight towards that upper lip. I was like, it's right there, it's right there. Yes, if you can get past the mustache, then you know that you are going to be able to accept the premise as outrageous as it is. Much like you can accept that Batman and the Joker will have a surfing contest and they will go short over their clothes.
00:34:21
Speaker
Yes, yes, please. But the Easter eggs, like, the Easter eggs were great, but one of the things I loved too was just like the hinting at like the double entendres, right? Like, and here it comes in and she's like, it's like, oh, you know, they've got this double life. You know what they are. And Alfred's like, excuse me, I have to go upstairs and pause the doorknobs? Yes, I loved it, I loved it.
00:34:49
Speaker
Aunt Harriet being there and being in this episode was delightful because of course it's all that worth of bull crap coming to the fore. And the reason that she was even on the show was to help allay those fears. Which she comes out and directly states like, I thought you kept me around as a, you know, as a, I can't remember the exact words she used, but it was perfect.
00:35:12
Speaker
So so dumb, but yeah like the whole like the fishing trips you boys sure go fishing a lot They have to leave at night You're gonna go fishing like
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh Lordy, that was amazing. And we get to see some stuff that we logically never saw from the show, where they jump on the bat poles, you get to see the transformation sequence of the costumes as they go down the bat poles. And it's almost like a Sailor Moon magical girl sequence.
00:35:46
Speaker
Then the costumes are swirling around, and their actual clothes are being taken away, and they get down off the bat poles, and they're in their full togs, and then they jump in the Batmobile. And it's just so lovingly rendered. I love it. And of course, my notes here say, 60s Batmobile is the best Batmobile. Fight me. God, it's so good. And in animated form, it looks even better. I adore it. But yeah, it's so good.
00:36:16
Speaker
Um, Derek would have definitely agreed with you on that. I know he had always said like, six, six Batmobile was his favorite Batmobile. For me, I go with, I like it. It's cool, but I prefer Canopy Batmobile and. Anton first, 1989. 1989 is great, but I think the animated series one is my favorite. Oh, well, yeah. Also. Cause that's just like a nice sleek update of the, the 89 one.
00:36:45
Speaker
It's just taking the 89 one and just making it as aerodynamic as possible and kind of doing away with a lot of the busy work. A lot of the busy work, it gets rid of the turbine at the front and replaces it with just like, you know, a more retro style front bumper. Yeah, yeah, it works much better, I think.
00:37:01
Speaker
um although you know i am kind of is kind of interesting that none of these other adaptations have incorporated like the big bat grill which is like almost in every single comic version of it right yeah i love the bat grill i my favorite version of the batmobile in comics is like that
00:37:18
Speaker
late seventies early eighties gym apparel batmobile where it was it was replicated in the superpowers toys where it has like the the swooping lines and like it does have the canopies from the sixty six batmobile but it also has like the uh the bat like silhouette on the hood where like the eyes are the are the headlights yes it looks so choice like that batmobile is the best and i think like
00:37:42
Speaker
I think only the Golden Age Batmobile really rivals it because there are other Batmobiles where I'm just like like the Norm Breyfogel one which just looks like a Lego brick that's colored in Batman colors and is just driving around but yeah yeah like in the 60s Batmobile especially in animated or like comic book form as well just just it just pops in a way that
00:38:03
Speaker
It just makes me happy seeing it tearing down the street. And when they pull up to police headquarters and Batman pulls off that turn on a dime park job. That's amazing. I love it. Yeah, absolutely. Have you played the Arkham Knight video game?
00:38:22
Speaker
I have, I have, Arkham Tank as I like to call it. Arkham Tank, yeah, yeah. But one of the things I loved about it was putting on the different Batmobile skids. And yeah, just doing those skidding to stops like that, I love those. Yeah, they're pretty good. They're pretty cathartic. The 89 one and the 66 one are both pretty fun, although the model for the Arkham Batmobile doesn't quite give you exactly what you want. The one-to-one conversion I found was a little janky, but fun. Yeah, I had a good time with it. Yeah.
00:38:52
Speaker
Um...
00:38:53
Speaker
And the references, like the Easter eggs, like I love how they gave him like the, when Batman, so, you know, people who haven't seen this, Batman gets hit with batnip and he goes dark. And it's Adam West playing dark Batman and it's perfect. It's so perfect. Because he's doing the quotes of like Michael Keaton Batman and Frank Miller Batman. He tells the Riddler, he says to the Riddler what he said to the mutant leader in
00:39:22
Speaker
the dark knight returns you know he's like this is an operating table and i'm the surgeon and it's just adam west delivering that line it's so perfect or what he i think he says i think he does say to the jokers like you want to get nuts let's get nuts yeah absolutely and there's the whole bit of like
00:39:38
Speaker
you know, he's slowly getting darker and darker. And like, he starts doing things that other batmen have done. Like when he disappears out the window and Commissioner Gordon, you know, they're like, he disappeared out the window. That's so strange and antisocial of him. Like he's never done that before. And Robin has to be like, yeah, he's going through some things right now. I'll see myself out. And then he goes out the door. Like it's a nice little meta commentary on like,
00:40:08
Speaker
Batman and then Batman 66 and then there's that whole bit where dark Batman basically goes up to O'Hara and Gordon is like, why are you guys a thing? Like, why? Why do I put up with you? You two are incompetent. You don't have any like when they're left on their own during the crime wave, they're as helpless as babes and woods. Suck.
00:40:31
Speaker
like they can't stop anything and those the headlines with the increasingly insane alliteration it's just it's just great when they they pull on the strings of the premise it's so fun and uh also speaking of that like you know added an odd to the the surfing thing you mentioned when his replicas take over as gordon and o'heara they put the uniforms over their bad costumes on
00:40:54
Speaker
They put the clothes on over their fat costumes to the point where he replaces the citizenry and you've got a Batman pushing a stroller.
00:41:04
Speaker
like a house 50s housewife get up. I'm like, okay, all right. Yep, yep, yep. This is all insane. I love it. Yep. You knew the assignment and you did it. Absolutely. They all knew the assignment here and they're, they're all having a blast. Like when Batman gets hit in the head and like he looks at Catwoman and Catwoman splits into three Catwomen, Merryweather, Newmar, and Earth again.
00:41:30
Speaker
That was fantastic. My one regret is that Catwoman didn't get hit with the replicator ray, and we would have had all three of those Catwomen running around for a brief period. That would have been amazing. That would have been nice, yeah. You don't always get what you want. But also, in the Batcave, we get the classic bat suits. You've got the first appearance one. You've got the more classic year one version. Yeah. Yeah, there are some nice bits of business. One of my notes just reads, giant robot T-Rex. Because I saw it when they're pulling into the parking lot, and I'm like,
00:42:00
Speaker
Yes, someone here in the set design was like, you know what this needs? The giant T-Rex. The only other thing that was missing was the giant penny. If the giant penny had been there, I would have been like, yes, please. But also, here's one quote I love. You know, I'll turn myself in on one condition. We run away to Europe together, sip tea in a cafe, and live happily ever after. Then Robin, holy unsatisfying ending.
00:42:24
Speaker
I hope whichever of the writers of that bought themselves a nice steak dinner afterward because that was perfect. I think anybody who's seen The Dark Knight Rises and was just like, yeah, no, nah, dog, that's not for me, was absolutely like, yes, yes, that's exactly right, thank you, yes. Yeah, that's the only response. Yeah, so good, so pure.
00:42:49
Speaker
And the sexual innuendo, too. Like, you'll be gentle with me, Batman. You have my assurance. I will handle you, personally. And the whole bit where, like, you know, they get into the catmobile and, like, Robin's going to take her going to take Catwoman to the Batcave. And she's like, I trust you'll keep your hands to yourself when he, like, hits her with a knockout gas. And there's that moment where Robin does the slow pan over Catwoman in that suit. And you're like, Robin, don't. Dang.
00:43:19
Speaker
Watch it, bud. And he's just, he shakes his head clear and like, he looks at the road real intent, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that was, that was funny. But I was like, whoo, whoo. The line is like right here, guys. It's right here. You're getting real close. You might want to pull up, but real fun. Like, yeah, all the bits of business, like, you know, when they're, when they're about to go to the observatory and Pat has like, I see a bad moon rising.
00:43:46
Speaker
One of my favorites, though, is when they're going into space. An intergalactic spaceship is just another tool in the crime fighters arsenal. The Bat Rocket. Okay, okay, where are my notes? Where are my notes? Oh, my God, I loved it. The Bat Rocket with the Bat Countdown, the Bat Radar Dish, and Bat Ignition. And if you look carefully in the cockpit, everything has bat hyphens.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yes, you all knew what to do. Everybody, I think, who worked on this thing loves 66 Batman and its shows, because it's on every frame. And when Batman gets darker and he's starting to hit people, he breaks out the brass knuckles, and you're like, oh, oh, no. And even the font of the hits are like, fracture, brutalized.
00:44:37
Speaker
He's just yeah, you're just like oh Oh, okay. Yeah, it's getting dark in here, but the show is still built to be
00:44:46
Speaker
friendly so it's trying to do two things and it's not working that's why it's so great because it's such a great thing about it's just such a nice little meta commentary unintentional intentional or otherwise about how deconstructing this doesn't work because it can't like the fictions the fictions don't they don't blend well hearing hearing Adam West Batman saying you want to get nuts is just like partially awesome and partially like okay you know something's wrong
00:45:17
Speaker
Something's wrong. This is off model. Yeah. Love it. That's just so great about it is just the point you made earlier about how the one of the great things about the 66 show was how Adam West was dead serious the whole time. You know, it's I liken it to
00:45:35
Speaker
Leslie Nielsen, an airplane, like he's just deadpan. That deadpan delivery is what sells it. And it's the same thing with 66 Batman. Adam West's deadpan dry delivery works so perfectly. And when you take that and you apply it to dark Batman, it's so good. It's so good. I love it. Yes. When he goes full supervillain and literally starts cackling,
00:45:56
Speaker
It's simultaneously one of the most unnerving and funniest things I've ever seen, where he's just like, I'll see you fools later. You're like this, no, no, I don't like this. I don't think I like this. It's kind of funny, but I don't think I like this. He's so good. Like we'll ditch, what do you say, baby? You and me get together and it's just like, Batman?
00:46:21
Speaker
So good. Yeah. But West also manages to bring in some real moments of like, holy shit, you're kind of menacing here. Like when he threatens Aunt Harriet and then he straight up fires Alfred, like, and then he's, and then, you know, he's watching the thing and it's like, it's almost like Superman three, when he goes evil, like he's watching the Miranda, Miranda Monroe, like vah, vah, voom.
00:46:47
Speaker
No, no, no. And I love how Robin throughout the whole movie has been like, no Batman, don't kiss her like cooties. Just stuff like that. He's just so dorky. It's amazing. The Catwoman Robin dynamic is great too. And then we'll kill Robin and everything will be fine. We'll fly off together. And of course, who among us who watch that show has not thought of killing Robin at some point?
00:47:14
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, yeah, he is, like, as straight-laced as Batman is, good lord. Like, Robin, like, you need to chill, bud. You are at 15. We need you at about 9. Like, you've got to calm down. And I love how
00:47:34
Speaker
that doesn't go away like there's that great bit when like Dick's living on his own he's got the apartment he's got the closet that's full of Robin costumes like I don't know how he'd explain that if he ever had a guest over um I go to a lot of conventions something like that like I don't know how he would explain it but still practicing his ballet because ballet is important but also to the point of
00:47:59
Speaker
uh firing Alfred like I love the end of that where he's like Alfred and I had a discussion about one day I maybe brainwashed into becoming a supervillain I told him what to do. That man is always a step ahead.
00:48:14
Speaker
like that's the whole point he's Batman of course he would come up with a contingency for that sort of thing he's Batman and then you come to find out the whole premise of the movie is a giant misdirect the whole point of making Batman evil wasn't for anything else to just to do this art robbery and I'm just like
00:48:35
Speaker
This was, this was, this was the goal. You made clones of yourselves and sacrifice them to die so that you could steal the first puzzle in the world. A hobo clown painting and the penguin steals a bunch of like bullion or something. And it's so over the top and ridiculous. And I'm here for it. You went to outer space.
00:49:00
Speaker
You went to outer space, you went to a space station that looked like the Kremlin. The nation of Belgravia, I believe it was called. And then I was like, in my notes, it's like, of course it looks like the Kremlin. Of course it does. Like, it's got the little spinnerets and everything. Like, oh, God bless. God bless the designers of this show.
00:49:22
Speaker
And also the abandoned TV dinner factory with the giant- Yes, yes. A giant TV dinner that they're gonna cook them on. Like, first of all, several questions. Second of all, he uses the lemon tart to burn acid, burn the ropes.
00:49:43
Speaker
Like, that almost had me on the floor. Like, I forgot that that was how he got out of that. And then when I saw it, I immediately started cackling with delight. Like, yes, of course, Batman. Use the lemon meringue. Yes, please. Please, God, yes. Like, that would be at the moment I think most sane people would be like, come on, man. This is some bullshit. Where's the Mystery Science Theater 3000 crew to make fun of this?
00:50:09
Speaker
I'm like, no, keep going. Yes, keep going, please. I loved it to death, like all the over the top stuff. And it was a nice nod to like Dick Sprang and like the giant typewriters and all that kind of crazy shit. Of course, what's the next logical progression? A giant TV dinner in the 60s. Oh, man, I love this movie. You know, I think the one disappointing thing is that this came out
00:50:33
Speaker
before or around the same time as Batman v Superman, because it matches like the kind of gags they would have played based on that.
00:50:41
Speaker
Oh my God, could you imagine? Like one of the unrealized dreams of like the 60s, like the 60s Batman comic was like, okay, he's teamed up with Wonder Woman 77. Could you imagine if we got George Reeves Superman in here? Like it's so good. Like it's an unrealized dream. Like I would love to see that. Even just in comic form would be cool. Like just playing around with like the setting and the other characters within that sort of milieu would be, would be really fun. I just, yeah.
00:51:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Because I was like, if they're being lowered into the nuclear piles, like, man, it's a shame Superman in around to save you in the nick of time. But thankfully, Robin had a had a plan with the anti bat isotope spray. That was actually one of the that was one of the disappointments about, you know, they had the Batman 89 comic and Superman 78. I'm like,
00:51:34
Speaker
And it's just like one thing each, like just that one mini series. And I'm just like, oh man, these are so good. And I just, I want you to do with Batman 789 and Superman 78, what you did with Batman 66 and have them team up and have them interact with each other. I would have loved to see that. Or Batman 66 and George Reeves Superman, that would have been, oh, that'd be amazing.
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, because there's that one great Alex Ross piece where you see Batman and Robin in the 60s Batman will be on there as George Reeves Superman flying above them, like saluting them. It looks so cool. I'm like, make that a reality. That would be incredible. Like George Reeves Superman and like 60s Batman. That would be so good, especially if each was a product of their time. So yeah.
00:52:21
Speaker
Ten years later, George Reeves' Superman with like a little bit of gray at the temples, like a nice little, I see you there. I see you there, George Perez, with your Mr. and Mrs. Superman look. Jose Garcia Lopez with a little gray at the temples. Yes, please, marinate me with that stuff. Slather it on like gravy. I'm, ugh. But this movie is also really great, even without Superman, because you've got an army of Batman clones, a Batman who's gone mad with power, and just like,
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah, that final fight where they recruit all the 60s Batman villains like King Tut, Hopeworm, Egghead, all these goobers, and like Mr. Freeze, and a bunch of nameless jobbers that I didn't recognize because, sadly, I think I've only really watched the first half of the first season. I really got to get back on
00:53:11
Speaker
Batman 66 because I got to track down who all these people are because they were holding their own. Some of them were holding their own pretty well against Batman for a little while there before the tide turns. So it surprised me that they haven't released that on HBO Max yet. I mean.
00:53:24
Speaker
You would think because they have those box sets and my brother has the complete series. So. Because I know it originally like those, those weren't on DVD for a while because of rights issues with box and CBS, something like that. But my understanding is that they got all that straightened out and Warner Brothers now owns it lock, sock and barrel. So I'm not, I'm surprised they haven't put that on, on the HBO max. You would think, but I'm,
00:53:51
Speaker
I'm not sure, maybe there's just some residual syndication rights somewhere that keeps it from being seen on TV, like you can collect it on Blu-ray, on DVD, but something's holding it back because this would be a no-brainer for like content because it's three years of some really fun television. I mean, even the third season when they brought in Batgirl and things didn't quite seem to be at the same level as it was in the early seasons, still fun, still entertaining.
00:54:21
Speaker
That was actually, that was surprising to me that there's no mention of Batgirl. I figured they would have tried to do something, at least some sort of cameo or something here of her. Yeah, you would think, but I think this is meant to be of a piece with the first season, first two seasons, and then kind of leading us into that. This is supposed to slot in somewhere in that era, because- Right.
00:54:47
Speaker
Yeah, I might be misremembering, but I think the Two-Face one kind of features into that. Although that could mean mists tumbling it in with the comics. But we'll see. Although, oh, wow. Like, I got to see the second one now, because I just saw, too, that not only do you have Shatner as Harvey Dent and Two-Face, but they've even got Harley Quinn in there, too. Yes, they do have Dr. Harley and Quinzel in the 60s version of that. Do you know who they wanted originally in the 60s Batman show to play Harvey Dent slash Two-Face?
00:55:17
Speaker
Uh, no. I mean, I did it one point, but I forgot. It's gonna be a young man who was famous for the TV Western Rawhide Clint Eastwood. Oh! He wanted a young Clint Eastwood to play Harvey Dent slash Two-Face.
00:55:34
Speaker
That's why in the 60s comic special, the model for Two-Face is very obviously Clint Eastwood. And it looks real good. Not that Chatner does a bad job. His performance is actually really fun. So maybe that'll be the sequel to this episode. We'll talk about that one. We'll gush about that one a little bit. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now you had a bunch of notes for this. So is there anything else you wanted to mention? Jumping out, let's see. I mean, we did cover the,
00:56:03
Speaker
The lemon meringue pie. I loved the lemon meringue pie. Anything else you wanted to mention? No, let's see here. Let me just double check. I did like the bat diving suits with the grills on them. Yeah, that was pretty fun. The capes on them, I should say. Yes.
00:56:30
Speaker
The old fashioned deep sea diving suits, right? Scooby-Doo looking diving bell suits, which were amazing. Let me see here. The Catwoman and Robin teamwork was pretty fun. I like how they absolutely hate each other, but it's- The Catmobile too. The Catmobile, that was wonderful. The Jokermobile makes a brief appearance, which I also thought was fun.
00:56:56
Speaker
The line about Batman forever where I was like, I see what you're doing.
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, the prison inspectors, prison inspectors. I've never heard of such a thing. Holy Jesus. That was great. And, you know, the whole notion of Batman literally pulling a Joker and holding the town hostage by having his bat clones attach bombs to all the VHF, UHF cables. They turn off the TV or change the channel. It'll explode. So I'm crazy. And he six all his army of Batman on them while he's doing the Batucy. I mean, just, just.
00:57:33
Speaker
Yes, it's so good. I would recommend it to everyone. So yeah, this is some great stuff.
00:57:40
Speaker
Was it the end credits with Batman and Catwoman dancing? Oh, yeah, they're all just dancing and rocking out. And I'm like, yes, that's how every superhero movie should end. It's just like the heroes just having a dance party, just having a good time, showing that everything's all right. We're all doing well. Why don't you come over and have a good time with us? Yeah, I had a great time with it, yeah. You've seen Titans, right? Have you seen the second season of it?
00:58:07
Speaker
Uh, I've seen a little, but I haven't seen the full, the whole thing, so. Did you see Scott Glenn doing the Batute seat?
00:58:14
Speaker
No, I think wasn't that when Dick was like tripping out on something? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, he was hallucinating and he was in this strip club or something trying to find a contact and then he hallucinates Bruce Wayne on stage and he's doing the Bat 2C and everything. Scott Glenn was like, I know a lot of people don't like him as Bat, but I thought he was great because he's like this bizarre mix of Michael Keaton and Adam West. I don't know why, but it just works.
00:58:42
Speaker
I think he's one of the better, the brighter lights of that show, if I'm being really honest. Absolutely. You hit it on the head. He's a nice mix of the 60s weird and the 80s weird. And I think that's a good thing for that show. That's exactly the kind of sweet spot they want to hit. Yeah, yeah. Definitely look up that clip on YouTube, because it had me on the ground when I saw it. Oh, I plan to. Yeah, absolutely.
00:59:09
Speaker
Uh, so, um, nothing else about this movie in particular, like one of the things I think that is cool about this, and also the Batman 66 comic book, and also like, you know, I'd mentioned Superman 78, Batman 89, is the idea of doing the continuing these very brief versions of these characters. And they had talked about maybe doing a Wonder Woman 77 with Linda Carter doing the voice, which would be cool too. But
00:59:34
Speaker
Are there any of these versions of these characters and like other media that you would like to see continued like in animated form or in comic form that we haven't seen so far? It's tough, I mean.
00:59:48
Speaker
of the TV show stuff. I mean, it might be fun to revisit the John Wesley ship Flash at some point, like the 80s Flash. I mean, we've touched on him briefly in like, you know, the Flash, the Berlanti one. Right, crisis he appeared, yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
sacrifices himself to save the multiverse which is what flashes do but it would be nice to maybe just have like a little tribute to that as well because the 91 flash show is kind of underrated like that first season is real fun you know does it always stick the landing your mileage may vary but that pilot was really great and i loved the um the previous golden age hero that they invented for it the deadly nightshade the gentleman like he was he was
01:00:32
Speaker
He was a black superhero. He was kind of like a shadow spider type. Like he wore this mask and a gas gun, that sort of thing. So that was pretty cool.
01:00:41
Speaker
kind of had their own version of the reverse flash, but it was really more of a bizarro kind of deal. But yeah, it would be fun to kind of play with that. And of course, I mean, if they were to bring anything back, I would want and beg and pray that they would bring Batman the brave and the bold back in some form or another because Dietrich Bader's Batman is so goddamn close to perfect that I
01:01:04
Speaker
It, it bombs my soul watching that show because it's just like these people all get it. Like this is, this is, this is the Batman show. This is the superhero show that I yearned for when I was a kid. Like I, I liked super friends. I liked superpowers, you know, justice league when it came along, Superman, the anime series Batman, the anime series, great, great, great, great, great.
01:01:26
Speaker
But those ones just were so earnest and took things so seriously. But Batman and the Brave and the Bold skirts that line so perfectly, where of course the Batmobile is a mech. Of course it's a mech. Of course it can fly. Like, of course. And like, lest you forget, lest you think that the Batman and the Brave and the Bold Batman is not harsh. First of all, there's the episode Chill of the Night, which is the adaptation of the classic story where he finds his parents killer.
01:01:53
Speaker
And it's good. It's written by Paul Dini. It's good. If you watch no other episodes, it's literally the Phantom Stranger, played by Kevin Conroy, and the Spectre, played by Mark Hamill, just basically playing chess for Batman's soul. Like, what are you doing? It's just a vengeance. And it's great.
01:02:12
Speaker
So good and then the other bit is there's a christmas episode of batman hates christmas he's grumpy about christmas he doesn't like christmas at all and red tornado helps them try to find his christmas spirit but he can't find it and why because the day that the flames went to the movie theater bruce wayne had a temper tantrum. On christmas day and they were like i will make it up to will go to the movies.
01:02:36
Speaker
Batman's parents got murdered on Christmas in this version. Like, that's the hardest shit in the game. Like, Jesus. Like, who? Who? Like, yeah, that show, it often plays it a little silly, but sometimes when it gets real, it gets real, real. So.
01:02:57
Speaker
And oddly enough, oh, sorry. No, sorry. Go ahead and finish your thought. Oh yeah. And as a nice little bonus feature to tie things back in Chill of the Night, you know, Batman travels back in time and meets his parents. And Thomas Wayne is wearing the bat suit from that classic Batman story where he's inspired by his father's Halloween costume and his mom's dressed like a ball. And the Waynes are played by Adam West and Julie Newmar. Oh, no way.
01:03:23
Speaker
Why wouldn't they be like? Yeah. So I have I've only seen the first episode of Brave in the Bulb. I've been meaning to I think I want to wait until my kids were a little bit older so that they could, you know, get into it by all means. Yeah. Yeah. Because right now, Helene is at the age where she won't pay attention to much other than TV show openings and. Teletubbies, which drives me and my which drives my wife fucking crazy because it's just like Teletubbies on a goddamn loop.
01:03:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I've been trying to get her into some of this stuff, like, you know, they got the Spidey and his amazing friends on Disney Plus and like the superhero squadron or like even some of the more like Justice League or anything like that. But she's just not she's just not ready to get into it yet. Not having it. Yeah. Not having it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, when she gets old enough. Yeah, would recommend. Yes. Yeah. I think for my part, I would
01:04:19
Speaker
Flash91 would be interesting. I've been meaning to actually check that out because I'd recently seen something on YouTube going back and looking at it. They're like, this is actually pretty good. And I'm like, I've been meaning to check that out because I had seen the pilot was on VHS like years ago when I was a little kid. I rented it from the library and I remember seeing that. And I've got some vague memories here and there of watching the show when I was a little kid, but I don't remember much about it. So I've been meaning to go back and take a look at that and give it a real chance because
01:04:47
Speaker
From my understanding, based on this YouTube video, it was actually quite a bit more serious than, say, Lois and Clark, which is the one that's more famous. Yeah, it definitely was played more as a dramedy. It was on CBS back in the day, and it was less the workplace office comedy, will they, won't they, and more of a time to be an earnest superhero show. Right, yeah.
01:05:12
Speaker
But I think I would also like to see, I mean, Batman 89 and Superman 70, I would love to see those continue or, you know, like you said, like Batman 66, Superman 55, seeing those do a team up, that would be so cool. But you know what I think I'd really wanna see? And you may think this may sound ridiculous, but I wanna see them do a comic book adaptation of Superman Lives. The Tim Burton, Nick Cage film that never got made.
01:05:42
Speaker
Because after watching that documentary, I am convinced this would have been the best, worst movie ever made. I don't know. I don't know. I think you're playing around with primal forces that you don't understand, Ferry. I think if you'll be like, let's pull open the seventh seal. And just like, oh, shit. We might have something amazing and astounding, but at what cost, Ferry? What cost?
01:06:14
Speaker
I'm willing to roll the dice on that. I'm willing to roll the dice on that. You're brave. You stand out over there. I'm going to be behind this blast shield.
01:06:26
Speaker
It could have been worse. I could have said, steal the, continuing the Shaq movie. Look, God bless Shaq. He just wanted to be in a superhero movie. He wanted to be in it so bad. And it's clear that Shaq, Shaq's physicality was an influence in John Bogdanovic's art. And I feel that if they had just,
01:06:50
Speaker
But again, it's like with Venom. How do you do a Steel movie without Superman? How do you do a Spider-Man movie where there's no Spider-Man? It doesn't make sense. Steel never had a chance. Never had a chance coming out of it.
01:07:11
Speaker
Venom actually seemed to manage to do it pretty well, I thought. I mean, to be fair, my brother and I, we walked into Venom going, this is gonna fucking suck. And we walked out, like, did that actually kind of rule? Like, did that rule a bit? And then, well, let there be carnage. Well, actually, we're gonna be doing that in an upcoming episode, actually, so. God, God be with you, my friend. God be with you. May God be between you in harm, because, oh.
01:07:41
Speaker
As good as Venom, as good as the original was, the sequel wasn't really for me. But I'll let you cross that Rubicon, make your own opinions. It was kind of surprising because I was expecting it to be better than Venom, given that you had Andy Serkis in it, you had Woody Harrelson in it. Woody Harrelson, yeah. This should have been a no-brainer. This should have been a slam dunk. And then I walked out of it like, what the hell happened?
01:08:12
Speaker
Oh, well. Anyway, any final things to say about Batman Return to the Cape Crusaders?
01:08:21
Speaker
If you're looking for a fun movie that you can enjoy, a superhero movie where you're like, I don't necessarily want to watch any of the DCEU stuff because sometimes it can skew a little dark. I'm looking for something fun for just me and the kids to enjoy. I would highly recommend this movie. In fact, you could make it a double feature with Batman 66, the movie, or you can make it a triple bill if you wanted to bring in Batman Two-Face because that one is also a lot of fun.
01:08:47
Speaker
So yeah, I hardly recommend this for people who are looking for something a little self-aware, a little meta at times, but still has that sincerity to it and everybody goes home happy. I think you'll have a good time with it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it was a lot of fun. I'm glad that they didn't pull any punches. They leaned right into the absurdity of Batman 66.
01:09:12
Speaker
They cranked that dial up and they left it there the whole time. They cranked it up and they broke it off. Which is where it should be because as I've often said with superhero movies, like realism is poison. You have to be willing to turn that dial up to 11, break it off, and don't run away from the crazy. Run toward the crazy.
01:09:34
Speaker
gotta have you know blue areas on the moon and negative zones and you know savage lands and all this kind of crazy stuff hidden gorilla cities and you know just over the top the city of Atlantis like you have to make this premise as silly as it is you have to embrace that silliness and make it part of you that's that's the beauty of
01:09:57
Speaker
of Adam West and Bert Ward and the Bill Dozier Batman is that they don't run away from the silliness. They don't clamp it down. They don't desaturate the color palette. They don't do any of that crap. They accept that this is gonna be a little silly at times, everybody. We're gonna take you through this journey. We're gonna have this adventure. At the end of the day, you're gonna have fun with it. You're not gonna be left with a Superman who snaps someone's neck.
01:10:24
Speaker
I will die angry about that. I will die angry. But we're not talking about that. Yes, but you will have a good time with this. I think that's the main thing. Just enjoy it. Just have fun. Just have fun with your superheroes. It can be done. I agree completely. As much as I enjoyed the Batman movie, one of my biggest disappointments with it was that we had had
01:10:51
Speaker
three Nolan films, which were ostensibly Batman set in the real world. And then we get a bit of absurdity we get, you know, with the with the Snyder stuff, right? I mean, you know, he's jumping around the place, he's doing stuff that no man could possibly physically do in that in that suit. They bring back some of the absurdity.
01:11:12
Speaker
They, you know, they, they desaturate it all to hell and they, they have a lot of other problems with it, but I did like that they leaned more into the fantastical side of things. But then after that, they're just like, what if we did a realistic Batman? I'm like, you mean the one you just did three movies about? I'm like, why do we have to do this again? I just, I, I think that The Batman is a great film, much the same way The Dark Knight is a great film. Is it a great Batman movie? Eh, it might as well be very,
01:11:39
Speaker
I think that the Batman kind of eeks out the Dark Knight knows by just generally being like more about the protagonist and the antagonist. But yeah, I do think that with the recent announcement that they had that the villain that's going to be in the second The Batman is going to be Clayface of all people.
01:11:59
Speaker
Oh, I didn't hear that. And I was like, yeah, yeah, apparently the next, I'm not sure if he's the big bad, but what villain that's gonna be featuring in the second Batman, the Batman movie is Clayface. And I was like, Matt Hagen Clayface? Like,
01:12:12
Speaker
Ron Perlman Clayface? Shapeshiftery Clayface? That has me intrigued, because for so long, we've dealt with the street-level villains. We've dealt with your jokers, your ridders. They even took Bane, who ostensibly has a wild origin story, and the Venom chemical, and just essentially made him into one of Rachel Ghoul's followers, who just happens to be a world star.
01:12:36
Speaker
which I felt was like a big detriment to Bane. Like Bane sucks in the Dark Knight Rises. He absolutely sucks once you figure out what the twist is.
Bane as Anti-Batman
01:12:44
Speaker
Talk about wasting a character because he's the anti-bat. Like he's supposed to be just as smart as Bruce, just as physically dedicated as Bruce. And the idea that they had in Dark Knight Rises where Bane is younger and Bruce is older and he's essentially the mutant leader. Like that should have been the whole point.
Critique of Dark Knight Rises
01:13:05
Speaker
Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take five minutes. I'm gonna tell people to go back to listen to the episode I did on Dark Knight Rises because I went off on this exact thing and I'm right there with you. I am right there with you because when we when we first get introduced, like the first half of the movie, I love what they were doing with Bane. I'm like, okay, yes, he's younger than him. He's intelligent. He's
01:13:26
Speaker
The voice thing is weird, but whatever. I can live with it. But overall, I like what we're doing here. He is the anti-Batman. He's younger than him. He's stronger than him. He's smarter than him. Bruce has got to figure out a different way to do this. And then you get to the big twist and you find out, oh, so, or before the big twist, when basically it's just Batman punches him harder. And I'm like, that completely undermines the point you were trying to make.
01:13:51
Speaker
And then after that, you get the twist of Talia. It's like, which everybody saw him coming a mile away, but then it's just like, oh, he's only doing this because Talia, so basically he's just a slightly smarter version of Batman and Robin's Bane, right? He's still a henchman at the end of the day.
Bruce Wayne's Character Exploration
01:14:10
Speaker
It's so, it's such a drag because the one thing that I, the one thing that I missed, the one thing that I yearned for from the Dark Knight Rises was there should have been like Alfred in Bruce's ear, like, like the video footage, like Alfred in the chair going like, sir, he will kill you. Like you have to go right
01:14:30
Speaker
Now you have to leave right now and they just see Bruce turn off the comms and like, let's go. Because another thing they needed to play into a little heavier that they didn't was this version of Bruce has a death wish. He wants to die. Like he failed his best friend. He failed his city. He comes back and it's not meant to be triumphant. Like that's the reason that Molasses is rolling so much slower this time.
01:14:56
Speaker
because he wants to die. And like he needs to confront that and then move through the fire and we come back even more committed. Sipping tea with fucking Selena. I'm sorry folks, I'm sorry, I need to exercise the demons, let me cleanse.
Batman's Resilience
01:15:14
Speaker
It doesn't make any sense because it's predicated on a premise that doesn't work in that Batman gives up.
01:15:21
Speaker
If you've ever read Batman for any length of time, you know that's the one thing he will never do. Batman doesn't give up. He always comes back.
01:15:39
Speaker
I mean, like, I get they want to do the symmetry of Alfred living out his fantasy and all that. But before that, you completely destroy Alfred's life by making him think he failed. I'm just like, what the fuck are you doing to this poor guy? That's the cruelest gaslighting I've ever seen, Bruce. Like, if I were Alfred, I would have walked up to him and punched him in the face. Like, you son of a bitch, you made me think you were dead. I buried you. I cried my eyes out.
01:16:12
Speaker
Excuse me, I gotta go to the angry dome for like five minutes. Oh boy, oh boy. But yeah, you wanna hear me go off more of that, go back and listen to that episode Will and I did about Dark Knight Rises. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, but watch Cape Crusaders instead of Dark Knight Rises.
Return of the Caped Crusaders Recommendation
01:16:32
Speaker
Yes, the point is we really liked one. We didn't really like the other. Go watch the thing that's really good. Go watch the Return of the Cave Crusaders. You will have a wonderful time. It is fun. It's so much fun. And again, I will have to stress that.
01:16:47
Speaker
like Stacey mentioned, you have to really go into accepting the fact that this is going to be fucking absurd. It is going to be ridiculous. You have to take that logic brain of yours and just shut it off, take it out of your head and shove it in a closet for 90 minutes because you're not going to be needing it at all.
01:17:05
Speaker
If you like the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and you're like, I would like a comic book version of that, please, that kind of sensibility, boy, you're gonna have a good time with Batman 66 and The Return of the Capersators. Have some fun, treat yourself. You will not regret it.
Podcast Promotions
01:17:21
Speaker
All right, okay, Stacy, thanks again for coming on, and why don't you tell people where they can find you?
01:17:26
Speaker
Folks can find me online. I'm on Twitter most of the time at StaceyHD. That's S-T-A-C-Y. H is in Harold, D is in David. It's not high definition. It's just my middle and last name. My middle and last initials. So you can find me there. You can also find me doing a podcast every Wednesday with my brother Ryan, the Fanboy Power Hour at Fanboy Power Hour on Twitter. We talk about comics, movies, assorted pop culture.
01:17:53
Speaker
We're on a big Star Wars kick right now. We're discussing the safe Star Wars that is the Mandalorian and how people should really be watching Star Wars, the Bad Batch, because I think that's where a lot of the stuff is going. That's getting under the radar of the mouse and they're really taking some chances. Cause like not to give away the goal for this upcoming episode, but we watched, I watched the season finale and who bad batch and who they took no prisoners in that last episode. Like,
01:18:22
Speaker
Whoo, they took the whole premise and just were like, hey, how about we just upend this for you? How about we just flip this Apple card for you? And I was like, Star Wars? It's almost like you got some teeth here. All right, let's go. Let's do it. So yeah, we're talking about that. And if that sounds intriguing, swing by again. The Twitter handle is at fanboypowerhour on Twitter. And you can subscribe anywhere you subscribe to your fine podcasts. So there you go. All right.
01:18:51
Speaker
All right, well, thanks again for coming on. And as always, welcome back anytime you want. If you haven't yet, because by the time this episode comes out, the, in fact, yeah, the Patreon episode, I dropped that last night. So yeah, by the time you listen to this, if you're subscribed to the Patreon,
01:19:07
Speaker
Go make sure to listen to the episode Stacy did coming on to talk about Archie Goodwin, Walt Simonson's Manhunter. If you haven't gotten that dollar a month, that's all it costs to get access to that and the rest of the book club episodes. Plus you get these regular episodes where we can advance with no ads. But that does it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and we will talk to you next time.
01:19:29
Speaker
If you enjoy the Superhero Cinephiles, then you'll also love my companion podcast, the Superhero Cinephiles Book Club. All my Patreon subscribers get access to this exclusive podcast where I review superhero comics and graphic novels. Not sure what comics you want to read next or what you should dive into? I've got you covered on that. I'll be doing reviews, recommendations, and also talking to you about useful entry points
01:19:49
Speaker
If you're interested in reading some comics but don't know where you should start, plus you'll get access to all episodes of the main show a week before everyone else. On all of this for as little as just a dollar a month, all you have to do is go to patreon.com slash supercinemahot and you can sign up at any subscription amount to get started. Thanks so much for your support and please don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:20:33
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.