Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
68: Joy & Grief Coexist Together with Jen Myers Farmer (Part 2)
232 Plays3 years ago
This week’s episode is Part 2 of the conversation with Jen Myers Farmer. If you know Jill Devine from her radio days, then you are bound to know Jen Myers Farmer. Jen and Jill worked closely together for almost ten years at the same radio station.
In 2016, Jen was diagnosed with breast cancer and her difficult cancer journey continues to this day. Jill invited Jen to come on the podcast to talk about the journey she has been on, along with her perspective on everyday life. The most important part of the conversation (in Jill’s opinion) was the reinforcement that ups and downs in relationships are normal and how powerful saying “I love you” can be.
You can read more about Jen’s story and make a contribution by clicking this link. Every dollar raised will support the Farmer family today and tomorrow. To offer them the blessing of one less thing to worry about as they navigate this next chapter. To pursue any future medical treatment available. To be together. To have fun. To, in the face of uncertainty, keep their resolve high and keep their lives moving ever forward.
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
Two Kids and A Career: https://www.jilldevine.com/podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Jill Devine Media and podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production.
Perceptions of Christianity
00:00:04
Speaker
Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset.
Jill's faith journey and podcasting role
00:00:13
Speaker
This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The normal goes a long way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
Introduction to Jen Myers/Farmer
00:00:40
Speaker
This week's episode is part two of my conversation with Jen Myers slash Jen Farmer. I'm Jill Devine. And in last week's episode, I introduced you to my friend Jen.
Jen's resilience against challenges
00:00:54
Speaker
We were in the radio business together and she is fighting. She is fighting hard. And I would love to continue that conversation right
Handling sensitive topics: Death and difficult conversations
00:01:05
Speaker
now. The kids, you said it's the kids. Yeah.
00:01:09
Speaker
God, I claw for like every second that I have with him. We talked before this episode via text. Um, I will say thing.
00:01:23
Speaker
gosh, you're pushy because she said, we got to do this in person. If we're going to talk about death or dying, I'm like, ah, no, I just want to talk about perspective. And then I said, no, I want to respect your health. I don't want you to be exposed to germs or anything. And I'm just so glad we're doing this in person. So thank you for, for pushing like, but when we talked about that, you said that you don't have
00:01:53
Speaker
well, the new normal, the normal conversations in your household with your kids. And I mean, I want to respect you and your family. I want you to be comfortable with what you are comfortable with. I just keep thinking about that family that needs to know how you have these conversations.
Faith crises and questioning God
00:02:15
Speaker
So one thing that I thought about, and then I had this conversation with a couple coworkers not too long ago is, you know, with faith and stuff,
00:02:24
Speaker
how it can be very easy to question our faith and have these faith crisis and be like, what the hell, God? Like this is, what? Have you gone there? Have you had the kids go there? I mean, I know that you are a faithful person. That's where I'm, I just, those conversations. Yeah.
00:02:52
Speaker
So many different conversations. We've been dealing with us for almost seven years. So when my kids, when we first started talking, they were three and a half and six. And now they're 13 and 10. So the conversations have changed.
Breaking difficult news to children
00:03:10
Speaker
I mean, I remember talking to my son when I was first diagnosed, I think we were talking about one of the drugs and he said, well, what if it doesn't work?
00:03:21
Speaker
Because he worries like I do. He's like my clone. And I said, well, if it doesn't work, then we'll switch to another drug. And he's like, well, what if that doesn't work? We'll switch to another drug. Well, what if that doesn't work? And I was like, you know what?
00:03:38
Speaker
We're going to hope that this drug works because that's what a six year old needs to hear. Right. We recently had to tell them about the cancer spreading to my brain that I think was tough for them to hear, but
00:03:59
Speaker
I said, you know, we're all full. They talked about how they think we caught this early. We're going to do radiation. The chemo that I'm on is a chemo that breaks the blood brain barrier. And they've seen women with breast cancer that spread to the brain. They've seen the tumors shrink. So we're just hoping that these drugs do what they're supposed to do. I don't try and like,
00:04:27
Speaker
force these conversations with the kids. Like if they want to talk about it, they can talk about it. And if they're worried, we kind of bring it up and talk through things. But I think they are aware of what's going on. Yeah, we say I love you all the time and we have these like silly competitions of like escalating love.
00:04:53
Speaker
Like, I love you. Well, I love you more. I love you times all the infinities and all the universes and all that. And I'm like, oh, you won this time. But yeah, we like don't. I don't take those things for granted.
00:05:08
Speaker
And I feel like I can't tell my kids enough every day how much I love them. And I don't know if it's because of my cancer or because that's the way we talk in our house now, but it comes back to me. So it's like a gift.
Jen's support system
00:05:29
Speaker
What about you though? Who are you talking to?
00:05:34
Speaker
I mean, I talked to my husband and my friends and I've talked to my pastor. I see a therapist. I'm lucky that I go to Simon and they offer free counseling. Oh, okay. For all their patients, which is great.
00:05:51
Speaker
but I see a therapist who, you know, talk about all the things that I can and can't control.
Living in the moment and appreciation
00:06:01
Speaker
And my pastor said something really great recently. We think of like life or death, but really like, I'm sorry to break it to everybody. It's not just me. You are all going to die someday. So it's life and death.
00:06:22
Speaker
We're all living at this. I mean, no one's promised tomorrow. And I've seen a lot of people who didn't have cancer. I mean, look at COVID. We saw so many people, healthy people who didn't think they were going to die. I know people who have been in awful accidents or had like sudden health emergencies who've died. So I feel like I just have the awareness
00:06:52
Speaker
or like the knowledge that I'm like walking through life realizing that every day is a gift. Like I cry when the sun rises or I cry when I see a beautiful sunset because it's like, God, I'm still here. But that's what sucks because
00:07:23
Speaker
I feel like it always takes something awful for people to do that. And like, I can talk to you and I can talk to other people and I can hear that all day long.
Being present despite challenges
00:07:34
Speaker
And part of it probably is like what I see, you know, like when you joke around like on Instagram, like they have it all together. But like,
00:07:49
Speaker
I guess it's like, oh, if I start to take a page from your book that I never get mad at my kids, but you still get mad at your kids. And so I think that that's where it gets confusing to me. And I don't even really know how to put it into words, but it's just, I know I'm not seizing the day. I know, but maybe I am. I don't seize the day every day. There are days when I'm too tired, but sometimes seizing the day doesn't mean like,
00:08:20
Speaker
You know, our type A personalities. Jumping out of bed and doing a million things with your kids and racing to the zoo and riding a Ferris wheel. Yeah. Sometimes seizing the day is you wake up early like I did this morning. And my daughter came down early and she said she had a nightmare. We just sat and like snuggled on the couch and watched the sunrise. She's like, when is the sun coming up?
00:08:49
Speaker
Oh, here it comes. We just sat there and like snuggled together. And that to me is like, might be my favorite part of the day, but when, but before cancer, that's what I want to know. My brain might've been thinking of all the other things I had to do. And I wasn't present in that moment.
Apologizing and learning from anger
00:09:16
Speaker
It's about being present and also, yeah, there are times when I yell at my kids. And I remember one not too long ago where like I cherish my 10 minute drive to school with my son. My husband's always like, I can take him. I'm like, no.
00:09:39
Speaker
That's the 10 minutes I get in the car with him every day. And sometimes it's like not even a big conversation, but it's everything to me, especially since I worked.
00:09:52
Speaker
mornings in radio for years and never, I was out the door before my kids were awake. And one day I had lost it the night before and yelled and went upstairs. And the next morning I drove him to school and I said, I just want to tell you how sorry I am about yesterday. And he's like, it's fine. I said, no, it's not fine.
00:10:20
Speaker
accept my apology. I'm sorry. I said, sometimes I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired. And I took it out on you and your sister. And that's not fair. And so we talk about how sometimes
00:10:42
Speaker
You know, sometimes you're angry about something and you take it out on the people you love.
Adapting communication with children
00:10:50
Speaker
Kids do that a lot because they feel safe. And I talk about that with my kids too. Like I know you're upset because you lost your game.
00:11:04
Speaker
Should you really be taking it out on your sister, your dad, me? So we have those conversations too. Like where's, where's the hurt really coming from? I mean, I've kind of joked that like another irony of me losing my voice is that when I try to yell a little bit louder, my voice goes out completely.
00:11:34
Speaker
We can laugh about it. So I had to sit down with my kids early on. And I was like, just, you know, this is my normal talking voice. And my yelling voice sounds like this. I cannot yell. So you will not be able to differentiate between regular mom and angry mom.
00:12:02
Speaker
So I'm going to need you to do things when I ask you to do them. Yes. It was just funny because I was like, man, this is like a test of my patience because yeah, I'm going to have to like stop. And if I try to yell, nothing comes out. And they're like, they're scheming. They're like, who's going to get her to yell? Because then I know. I know.
00:12:30
Speaker
So I was like, Oh, this is an interesting little exercise. But also I will say I don't yell at, I don't get upset about stuff that I used to get upset about.
Focusing on family and friendships
00:12:42
Speaker
Give me an example. Oh gosh. I'm trying to think maybe not like upset about stuff. But when I was diagnosed with cancer, I feel like there's so much static in our lives.
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, there are so many distractions and with social media you see other people and if you're like constantly comparing yourself to people on social media or at work or in your neighborhood or at your church or people's Christmas cards, it's like all that static went away and everything in my life that it was important was so crystal clear.
00:13:29
Speaker
Like at the end of the day, it's your friends and your family and the people you love. And that's it. I gotta say that when you said love, you say it and you mean it. And I remember recently when we were texting and you said, I love you. I was like, and I love you. And I didn't realize,
00:13:57
Speaker
how important that was until you talked about it. And when we worked together before I was diagnosed with cancer, I probably never said it to anyone, coworkers, friends, but gosh, as soon as I was diagnosed, everybody, everybody. Again, you have to understand too, with Jen and me,
00:14:24
Speaker
I think after everything, that happened at the radio station, I never wanted anything to feel like a hidden agenda. When you're very careful about your text or whatever, and so you carry this, and I'm speaking for me, I carry this for so long until we had to sit down and to talk about our feelings and our friendship. And then even now, speaking of bathroom cleaning, this is no joke. This is not a joke at all.
00:14:55
Speaker
I was cleaning the bathroom and I was just thinking of you. Maybe you were cleaning the bathroom at the same time. And I was thinking of you. I stopped what I was doing. I sent you a text and said, I'd like to have you on the podcast. Would you be willing? And I got real scared for some reason. I set it down because I thought, okay, maybe she's going to think, and this is me and my overthinking.
00:15:23
Speaker
talking about death and all that. And that's not what it was. I was like, she's, I need to share her story. She needs part of it's for me, selfishly. And another part is I want your story to be told. And I want it out there. And you responded so quickly. And then when you said, yes, I just started crying. And I was like, why are you crying, Jill? And I think it was just because
00:15:53
Speaker
of just everything, like just everything, everything. So yes, this podcast episode is more personal and won't mean as much to somebody else, of course, but it's also, I feel like,
00:16:13
Speaker
a power of want to say forgiveness because it's not that it's a power of we get like a do over. Yeah. That's a crummy thing about people like leaving your life suddenly, which like happened with us. Yeah.
00:16:31
Speaker
It's a weird situation when someone does not get to leave their job voluntarily. And then you're left there. And it's weird because like as much as our relationship revolved around work, it really didn't. So that's the thing. Like it was different. Cause then you realize that you miss that person. Yeah. And that you weren't just work friends. You were friends. Yeah. And you don't have
00:17:01
Speaker
Like that's the other thing too is that, and I've done this to myself is sometimes I have created this status on friendship that, you know, if you're a best friend, then this is what's, I don't know where it came from. I've talked to somebody about this and like,
00:17:22
Speaker
Wait, you can't have more than one best friend. You have a best friend and close friends and good friends and you're considered a best friend when you talk every, okay, no, that's not what that is. Just because we don't talk every day doesn't discount you from, it's a label, like stop.
00:17:43
Speaker
And that's where it comes into play too, because trust me, there are people that I worked with that I don't wanna do over with.
Self-care as a priority
00:17:55
Speaker
I wish them all the best, but I think that that's, yeah, you're right. You figured out. We never got like a final. No, we didn't get a final. We never got a final day. No, not at all. So yes, this is very self-serving for me.
00:18:10
Speaker
And I admit that. I also think too for you and the individuals that would listen all the time who haven't gotten to hear all of your story. They know a lot of it from when you were on the radio, but I'm just so glad you're taking care of yourself now. That's my biggest thing on the outside looking in at you when
00:18:35
Speaker
You left radio like I know you loved it just as much as I did. That was, that was our life. Right. And I know that that wasn't easy to leave, but the absolute best thing. I know. I finally said, what happens if you treat taking care of yourself like your full-time job? Yeah.
00:19:02
Speaker
which is, I reached the point where I was like, this is what I have to do, is take care of myself. And even in taking care of myself, like, you know, there have definitely been lots of bumps in the road in the last year, but then I feel so lucky that I was, that I'm able to devote all of my attention to this. And don't you feel, cause I feel this way too now with my job at the church, the flexibility, like that if,
00:19:33
Speaker
your kiddos need you, you can be there. Not that we couldn't be there before with radio, but there's definitely like, I think about snow days before. I hated snow days because I knew I had to drive to work and it would take me three hours.
00:19:55
Speaker
because I had to be on the air and now I'm like, I love snow days.
Impact of COVID-19 on life perspectives
00:19:59
Speaker
I can stay with my kid, you know, things like that too. I mean, because even though, like you said, and I think that's changed for a lot of people since COVID. Yeah. It's just nice to focus on you and your family. I think the last few years we've all realized that what is it all for? Yeah.
00:20:20
Speaker
everyone's walked up to that line and seen that you can lose everything. And everybody had to sit in the uncomfortable, which when it, when COVID first started, I was like, Oh, people are going to understand like what it's like for someone who has an illness and they have to be more careful and
00:20:44
Speaker
Like maybe everyone will learn more empathy towards each other, which I think for a while we did. But also, there are a lot of people who are very uncomfortable with feeling uncomfortable. I think we saw that with like, now there's more attention to mental health.
00:21:06
Speaker
Um, thank God for that. Right. Um, and still dealing with it, but yeah, it's like, how comfortable can you be with being uncomfortable for an extended period of time? And what are the lessons that you learned or like, what did you come away with? Thinking was important for you. And I think a lot of people's values and
00:21:35
Speaker
like hierarchy of importance, like completely turned on its head.
Appreciating life with cancer
00:21:42
Speaker
So as we wrap up, is that your advice? Is that what you tell someone who might be struggling, someone who might not be struggling? Like, what is it? I feel like
00:21:58
Speaker
In the last six and a half years, like I've lived more in the last six and a half years than I did before. Like so much of my life before I was like sleepwalking through life, like just have to get through the day. Have to get all this stuff done. Check all these things off my list. Kids check groceries, check work, check like
00:22:21
Speaker
all the checkworks and then everything changed. And I feel now like just like it's not life or death. It's not just grief. You can't have these great moments of joy without the grief.
Coexistence of joy and grief
00:22:37
Speaker
Someone was talking, it's like the movie Inside Out.
00:22:40
Speaker
Oh yeah. Where joy keeps trying to like keep sadness away. Like go away, go away, go away. You're ruining everything. But then when sadness comes in and like you realize that they exist together and some of my best moments of joy I've had because I'm living with cancer and I probably appreciate them more than I would have before. Silly things like
00:23:10
Speaker
Watching my kids sleep, you know, when you like stand over your kids and just watch them breathe. Just little things where I might've been distracted before because I had other things that were going on that I thought were important that really aren't. It's like the joy and grief.
00:23:35
Speaker
who exist together. I feel like it's, I don't know, it's made me appreciate everything that I have for. I love you. I love you too. Here's what I'm gonna leave you with. If there is something that you need to get off your chest, if there's a person you need to reconcile with, if there's someone you need to forgive, if there's a conversation, a hard conversation that you need to have,
Resolving conflicts and supporting Jen
00:24:06
Speaker
Please do it. I'm also going to invite you to check out the GoFundMe that Jen's friends put together and consider donating to it or sharing it so that we can make sure that there's a little peace of mind for Jen and her family. You can get that link and anything else that you need in regard to Normal Goes a Long Way at normalgosalongway.com.
00:24:35
Speaker
Thank you in advance.