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WandaVision: Episode 9
76 Plays4 years ago
Streaming On Disney+
Show Notes
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Opening Theme: Cutting It Close - DJ Freedman
The next chapter of the MCU concludes with Episode 9 of WandaVision. The Basement Binge and Rob join the show to help break down this episode.
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Transcript
Emotional Reactions to WandaVision Finale
00:00:04
Speaker
What's going on listeners welcome back to Matt goes to the movies and this is the final episode of WandaVision so if you've been listening to the show you know that that means I'm joined by Rob and Harrison from the basement binge so a bittersweet episode but guys welcome Rob how are you feeling with this being the last episode
00:00:29
Speaker
Um, I've got a lot of emotions about this.
00:00:31
Speaker
I, uh, I would definitely say I've felt most of the feels this week.
00:00:36
Speaker
Um, this one, it takes you on a roller coaster with, with what it brings you.
00:00:40
Speaker
You've got some pretty fun moments.
00:00:42
Speaker
You've got some light moments.
00:00:44
Speaker
Um,
00:00:45
Speaker
You've definitely got some pretty heavy moments, though.
00:00:47
Speaker
There's some real gut punches in the series finale.
00:00:50
Speaker
And I just have to say that I'm so glad that we get to do this show together to kind of work out our thoughts and our feelings and our emotions about this, since we don't all have the ability to create a pocket reality to deal with those things on our own.
00:01:03
Speaker
We kind of get to do this together.
00:01:05
Speaker
So I'm really happy to be able to talk about this with both of you guys.
00:01:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:09
Speaker
Harrison, what are your thoughts here?
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, similar situation.
00:01:13
Speaker
I remember finally coming around to the day to recording house.
00:01:16
Speaker
I was like, finally, we can talk about it.
00:01:18
Speaker
And just being so excited that I've waited so long since Friday to have complete thoughts about it and to be able to talk to the two of you about it.
00:01:27
Speaker
Because we text each other, but it's so limited.
00:01:29
Speaker
It's like, did you watch it?
00:01:30
Speaker
And then it's like, yeah.
00:01:32
Speaker
You can tell that we all want to talk about it, but we wait to say something.
00:01:36
Speaker
So I was extremely excited.
00:01:39
Speaker
But then also I was like, oh man, this is the last WandaVision episode.
00:01:43
Speaker
So it's just bittersweet.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy to think about that.
00:01:48
Speaker
You
Initial Skepticism and Series Appreciation
00:01:49
Speaker
know, I feel the same way.
00:01:49
Speaker
It's like, oh, man, like it's over.
00:01:51
Speaker
It's super fun to talk about.
00:01:53
Speaker
But for a show that in the beginning wasn't super on my radar, when Rob and I did an episode called Matt Goes to the Mailbox, I...
00:02:03
Speaker
You know, I named Moon Knight as my most anticipated show for Disney Plus, and I was like, yeah, you know, WandaVision, I'll watch it.
00:02:10
Speaker
But for me personally, you know, this isn't something that I was like, oh, my God, I like I have to have this.
00:02:16
Speaker
It was, yeah, it's going to be MCU content.
00:02:18
Speaker
It'll be nice to have things.
00:02:20
Speaker
you know back from the mcu but this quickly turned into something that was okay i need it to be friday and you know it certainly helped heaven you know you guys to talk to about it but you know on its own if you don't do something like we're doing or you're not texting a buddy which i'd be surprised because this is pop culture now um
00:02:42
Speaker
It's still super entertaining and engaging.
00:02:44
Speaker
So I'm super excited to get this episode started and we have a lot to talk about.
00:02:50
Speaker
So Harrison, I'm going to let you go first on the segment that we call two minute warning listeners.
00:02:56
Speaker
This is where we're going to give our spoiler free thoughts about the episode before we really break this episode down.
00:03:03
Speaker
So Harrison, you, you got first dibs.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah.
Character Development and Cultural Impact
00:03:08
Speaker
Just as like an overall review of,
00:03:11
Speaker
The season and the episode, like Matt said, I had no idea that I would care this much about WandaVision.
00:03:18
Speaker
And the way that the episode was able to wrap all of that care that I have developed for Wanda and Vision into a final episode and also into a season concluding, not necessarily season, but like event concluding thing, because I don't think there's going to be season two.
00:03:35
Speaker
Either way, it's ending is what I'm trying to say.
00:03:37
Speaker
And the way to wrap that all up, I thought, was phenomenal.
00:03:41
Speaker
it's interesting to now go back and like realize that I have complaints because in the moment I thought it was the best thing ever there wasn't a single thing that I had wrong with it because I was so wrapped up in the emotions of Wanda and Vision and everything that's involved in this concluding episode on top of a bunch of exciting and like cool things like whoa like this is like like a superhero movie and and this is happening and type of thing and to have both of those was just
00:04:06
Speaker
Great.
00:04:07
Speaker
And I, week in and week out, I found out all the reasons that I loved WandaVision that I had no idea.
00:04:16
Speaker
I came to care for Wanda and Vision in a way that I didn't before.
00:04:19
Speaker
And...
00:04:21
Speaker
I had no idea that I was going to love this show this month.
00:04:23
Speaker
So to have it all wrapped up is, again, bittersweet.
00:04:26
Speaker
But the way that they managed to do that and the way that it made me personally just totally love it in the moment, I thought was awesome.
00:04:32
Speaker
I know not everyone feels the same, and I'm sure we're going to get into the complaints.
00:04:37
Speaker
I'm going to get my spoon feeding over here as jack-jack as I've labeled myself.
00:04:41
Speaker
But it...
00:04:43
Speaker
what is just a great episode to enjoy.
00:04:44
Speaker
There are so many, um, even as we've had a chance to talk about it a little bit and I've kind of come to terms with my complaints, there's still so much about it that I love that I just think about this final episode, uh, in great regard.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:00
Speaker
Rob, what are, uh, what's your initial, you know, thought about this episode?
00:05:07
Speaker
I think we're all three in agreement that, wow, we never saw it coming that we would feel, um,
00:05:13
Speaker
so into this show when it was first announced.
00:05:15
Speaker
I mean, it was just kind of like, OK, what's this thing going to be?
00:05:18
Speaker
They're doing it based on old classic sitcoms.
00:05:20
Speaker
Like, what?
00:05:22
Speaker
OK.
00:05:23
Speaker
And we didn't really pay much attention to it, I don't think.
00:05:28
Speaker
And this show has really become like this is the piece of pop culture right now that really is moving the needle.
00:05:34
Speaker
This is what people are talking about online.
00:05:37
Speaker
This is what people are talking about at work.
00:05:39
Speaker
This is the show that people are talking about.
00:05:43
Speaker
And it was just so great to have new MCU content after over a year of nothing.
00:05:48
Speaker
Just every week when that opening credits rolls and we get the theme song and we get the Marvel Studios logo, like just every week, I'm so just excited for new MCU content.
00:05:58
Speaker
And yeah, Matt, when we did the mailbox episode, we looked at this and said, this could be kind of trippy and kind of wild.
00:06:06
Speaker
Like, what is this thing going to be?
00:06:08
Speaker
I'm a little more excited for it than I was initially.
00:06:12
Speaker
And sitting here after nine weeks of this, eight weeks, I guess, because we got two episodes in week one,
00:06:19
Speaker
Wow, I just, I can't stop saying that I'm blown away by it.
00:06:23
Speaker
But yeah, I never imagined that this would be as well executed as it was.
00:06:29
Speaker
And yeah, like I should really doubt Marvel Studios because how often do they really let us down?
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's so much to like here.
00:06:38
Speaker
However, there's one major thing that I absolutely hate from this episode.
Disappointments and Missed Opportunities
00:06:44
Speaker
We'll get into it.
00:06:45
Speaker
I hate it.
00:06:47
Speaker
I detest it.
00:06:48
Speaker
I cannot dislike it enough.
00:06:53
Speaker
nitpicks on other stuff throughout, maybe some, some story things that I wish would have been developed differently or wrapped up differently.
00:06:59
Speaker
But one major thing, uh, I actually feel kind of offended about, and I don't mean offended in the way that like, you know, somebody had said an offensive comment, but just, uh, as a fan, I kind of feel like my, uh, my sensibilities were, were betrayed.
00:07:14
Speaker
Um, and, and just kind of, um, discredited the fan base.
00:07:19
Speaker
Um, and what we were expecting with one major thing.
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot that I agree with there.
00:07:26
Speaker
I would say that this episode has one major snafu for me that's kind of unforgivable.
00:07:35
Speaker
It would take a lot to make me understand that decision, and we'll talk about that here in a little bit.
00:07:43
Speaker
But there's a couple minor things too.
00:07:47
Speaker
One of them is not as unforgivable as I feel this one plot point.
00:07:52
Speaker
But there is another part of this episode that really causes some doubt for me about... I can't believe they would miss out on that opportunity.
00:08:02
Speaker
But overall, this episode...
00:08:07
Speaker
In the moment, it's really easy to forget some of these things while watching the episode.
00:08:13
Speaker
It's when you're sitting and thinking about it, but it still cannot really shake how great this show was and what I felt was good about this episode for me does outweigh the negative.
00:08:27
Speaker
So...
00:08:29
Speaker
That's going to be my spoiler free portion of this.
00:08:32
Speaker
So listeners, if you've been following along with this show, this is where if you haven't for some reason by now been able to watch this episode of WandaVision, pause the show, go watch it and come back and listen.
00:08:47
Speaker
If you do not want to be spoiled, because this is where we get into our spoiler discussion and, um,
00:08:53
Speaker
Guys, I think it would be appropriate considering we've talked a little bit before recording about what we feel is the disappointment.
00:09:02
Speaker
And we have a couple of varying opinions on it.
00:09:05
Speaker
But one thing that I know we're all in agreement on is it's a major missed opportunity that the first time that we see a
00:09:15
Speaker
white vision because that's what we know him as he's not voiced by James Spader.
00:09:21
Speaker
I felt that was a huge missed opportunity to really drive home emotional trauma for Wanda.
00:09:27
Speaker
Not that she didn't have enough of it for God's sakes, but I just felt like that would have been a slam dunk.
00:09:34
Speaker
It would have added to the episode.
00:09:36
Speaker
And I was, I was quite frankly, I was surprised that they did not, uh,
00:09:41
Speaker
you know, have that happen.
00:09:43
Speaker
So Rob, I'll defer to you first.
00:09:45
Speaker
What were your thoughts on that when he shows up on the screen and he speaks to Wanda and it's Paul Bettany's voice?
00:09:54
Speaker
So last week I thought I was pretty slick and I had a theory.
00:09:57
Speaker
Turns out both you guys had that exact same theory that that's what we were going to get.
00:10:02
Speaker
And we had seen through IMDB, the James Spader was credited as being a part of the show.
00:10:09
Speaker
Ultimately,
00:10:10
Speaker
I don't think we ever got him unless they were crediting him because of a previously on WandaVision and they set up something in one of the scenes leading up to it where it was a piece of Ultron's voice, which I don't even remember seeing that.
00:10:26
Speaker
But yeah, to call it a missed opportunity, I think, is just absolutely the perfect way to put it.
00:10:33
Speaker
It would have had even more tie into the creation of Vision, which was a lot of what was going on with this.
00:10:41
Speaker
It would have really differentiated the two of them together.
00:10:43
Speaker
I do like that.
00:10:46
Speaker
They made his voice different.
00:10:48
Speaker
When they face off against each other, it makes it much easier to understand which one of them is speaking at what point and which one of them is doing what.
00:10:57
Speaker
So I do like that even though they kept Paul Bettany's voice, they altered it, they made it slightly more digital, they made it slightly more robotic.
00:11:03
Speaker
But man, that would have been such a cool callback to have James Spader voicing White Vision.
00:11:10
Speaker
And then he can adopt Paul Bettany's voice again when he kind of regains his memories.
00:11:15
Speaker
But yeah, missed opportunity for sure.
00:11:19
Speaker
Harrison, what are your thoughts on that?
00:11:22
Speaker
Yeah, I've definitely had some time to stew over all of these things.
00:11:26
Speaker
But I'm just going to refer back to what you said, Matt.
00:11:28
Speaker
You said that it could have been a slam dunk.
00:11:30
Speaker
And I think that that's a great expression because...
00:11:33
Speaker
I think with Paul Bedney and the editing that they did to this voice and the way that it does, it was just like a nice, easy layup, right?
00:11:39
Speaker
It got the job done, but there was some more that could have been added that really would have been like a slam dunk.
00:11:46
Speaker
And I like, I, you know, those moments when you're watching a TV show or a movie and something happens, you're just like, Oh, you just kind of freak out, raise up in your seat a little bit.
00:11:56
Speaker
That would have been that moment.
00:11:57
Speaker
If it was James Spade, it didn't happen.
00:11:59
Speaker
So,
00:12:00
Speaker
Total miss opportunity.
00:12:02
Speaker
But I will say beyond just the initial shock that I was wrong when Paul Bettany's voice came out instead of James Spader in the episode when I was watching it for the first time, I he hadn't talked yet.
00:12:15
Speaker
And I was like, OK, he's going to open his mouth and it's going to be James Spader.
00:12:18
Speaker
And it wasn't.
00:12:19
Speaker
And Paul Bettany's voice came out.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I was surprised.
00:12:23
Speaker
Once that initial surprise was gone, I was like, okay.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I got used to it and it was totally fine.
00:12:27
Speaker
And it worked actually quite well for me.
00:12:29
Speaker
I actually really liked what they did with his voice.
00:12:32
Speaker
So I really did have a big initial disappointment.
00:12:35
Speaker
But by the time we got to the ship of Theseus conversation, I had just kind of come to terms that I was wrong and that it was like, yeah, missed opportunity, but whatever.
00:12:43
Speaker
This is what we got and I'm okay with it.
00:12:45
Speaker
so yeah definitely could have been better but i've come to terms with that one so to speak like it's not like i like oh yeah it's the best thing ever it's just like whatever that's what we got and i guess i just have to accept it okay so let's move on though and i think rob based on your comments i'm aware of the part that you're saying you hate but
00:13:09
Speaker
The real elephant in the room for this show that I think everybody was waiting to see what this payoff is going to be.
00:13:17
Speaker
Let's get that out of the way now.
00:13:18
Speaker
And let's talk about fake Quicksilver because we find out in this episode that any crossover theory, at least initially, who knows?
00:13:28
Speaker
They could certainly do something down the road.
00:13:31
Speaker
But as far as fans know right now,
00:13:34
Speaker
The Evans Peter crossover was simply just them placing an actor inside the show because we find out and I'm not saying this wrong for listeners.
00:13:45
Speaker
If you have seen this or for some reason don't care to be spoiled to the episode.
00:13:50
Speaker
His name is Ralph Boner, which I never thought I'd have to hear from the MCU.
00:13:55
Speaker
It sounded kind of juvenile.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:58
Speaker
But he's a nobody.
00:14:00
Speaker
He is just a resident of Westview like everybody else.
00:14:06
Speaker
And Rob, I'm going to assume that's what you meant is the part that you hated.
00:14:11
Speaker
So I'm going to let you close out this segment.
00:14:15
Speaker
So Harrison, I'm going to go to you first.
00:14:18
Speaker
What are your thoughts on this?
00:14:21
Speaker
I'm definitely in the minority between the three of us.
00:14:24
Speaker
first let me say when I was watching the episode it didn't even cross my mind that it was something to complain about like I was so involved in whatever was happening like it's hard to explain where my mind was at but I was just kind of like oh interesting like like like I was just watching it play out and just observing it I didn't have too many critical thoughts about it the episode ended and I put a five stars up and wrote a review and I was like this is the best thing ever and then I started to read other people's reviews I started to think about it more and then I was like wait
00:14:54
Speaker
He's not Quicksilver.
00:14:56
Speaker
He's Ralph Boner.
00:14:59
Speaker
And so in the moment, whatever you want to label it as, I was fine with it.
00:15:07
Speaker
But the more I think about it critically, I'm going to stand firmly on the line since I've been swashed back and forth between my own thoughts and people who have similar feelings as me.
00:15:18
Speaker
And then you guys, who I think strongly dislike it, kind of land somewhere in the middle and say,
00:15:25
Speaker
I think it was a missed opportunity.
00:15:26
Speaker
Do I hate it?
00:15:27
Speaker
No.
00:15:28
Speaker
Am I kind of like disappointed in the MCU and the show creators that they didn't capitalize on it and that the way that they did capitalize on it is with a stupid joke?
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like kind of irritated and like that was dumb.
00:15:42
Speaker
Clearly this is the wrong decision, but I'm not so bothered by it where I'm like really upset.
00:15:49
Speaker
I'm just like that.
00:15:50
Speaker
That was dumb.
00:15:51
Speaker
They should have done something differently, but I'm sure that it's going to be awesome.
00:15:54
Speaker
Whatever does happen.
00:15:55
Speaker
Like I have such confidence still that they've kind of,
00:15:59
Speaker
I've lost a little bit, but my confidence is still strong that whatever Evan Peters is is important.
00:16:06
Speaker
So I just kind of view it as a misstep that should have gone differently and sadly didn't, but will get eventually.
00:16:13
Speaker
But I know that I'm kind of soft in my perception of it, especially compared to the two of you.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'll just say my thoughts on it.
00:16:23
Speaker
And my thoughts are, I'm still thinking of it in terms of what we have right now.
00:16:30
Speaker
I'm taking it at face value that this is what it is.
00:16:33
Speaker
And to me...
00:16:36
Speaker
If this is the route that you were going to go, it was great to see him.
00:16:41
Speaker
But seeing him and how now this has come to light of him just being a regular character, I can backtrack and say...
00:16:53
Speaker
I don't feel that you needed to cast him to get to where we were in the season finale.
00:16:58
Speaker
So to me, that's why I'm one, a little bit more harsh towards it, because I feel like you could take that entire point out and still have the same result.
00:17:08
Speaker
So the fact that you...
00:17:10
Speaker
really kind of Rob, I think you said, you know, had like a betrayal, so to speak to fans, especially too, because regardless of what you think of the, the Fox X-Men movies, one thing that a lot of people liked about those movies were most of the cast choices and he was one of them.
00:17:30
Speaker
So I know a lot of people were excited to say, well, at least we're going to get him crossing over.
00:17:36
Speaker
So yeah,
00:17:37
Speaker
The fact that it just seems to be a throwaway is why it upsets me.
00:17:42
Speaker
And it also, too, I immediately thought of the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, where they've shown almost...
00:17:51
Speaker
a track record, so to speak now of taking somebody who seems to be a really interesting character in a really interesting theory.
00:18:01
Speaker
You know, before it was revealed that Ben Kingsley was playing a character named that was an actor playing the Mandarin, he was absolutely terrifying in that movie.
00:18:11
Speaker
And then he's turned into a joke and it's the same thing here for me with Quicksilver.
00:18:17
Speaker
It was great to see him.
00:18:19
Speaker
You were wondering what was going to happen.
00:18:21
Speaker
Is this going to be the first sign of somehow he got plucked from the multiverse and it's treated like a joke?
00:18:30
Speaker
I don't know if maybe it wouldn't have been treated as much of a joke if his name again, I can't believe we have to say this is his name, but his name was Ralph Boner.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
Maybe I wouldn't have thought of it as much as a joke, but yeah, taking it at face value.
00:18:46
Speaker
This part of the episode does really aggravate me for those reasons.
00:18:50
Speaker
So Rob, I'll let you close this part out.
00:18:53
Speaker
Cause I'm assuming this is what you're talking about that you hate this.
00:18:58
Speaker
Matt, you would assume correctly, sir.
00:19:00
Speaker
So Harrison was pretty nice with how he went on it.
00:19:02
Speaker
Matt was pretty straight to the point.
00:19:05
Speaker
with how he discussed this.
00:19:06
Speaker
I'm just going to rain straight hate on it for a little bit if that's okay with everybody.
00:19:11
Speaker
I'm just sitting here in my office.
00:19:12
Speaker
I've got a glass full of Haterade and I'm ready to drink it all because I'm actually pissed about this.
00:19:19
Speaker
Um...
00:19:20
Speaker
It's it's so I find it disrespectful to the audience.
00:19:23
Speaker
You throw this cliffhanger out at the end of on a very special episode.
00:19:29
Speaker
You know, back in episode five, they give us this crazy cliffhanger.
00:19:32
Speaker
We all knew who Evan Peters is.
00:19:34
Speaker
We all know he played Quicksilver in the other version of this character.
00:19:39
Speaker
So you bring them in, you get everybody thinking about what that's going to mean, how that's going to tie in, how does this create more storylines and Doctor Strange, who else is coming through.
00:19:51
Speaker
You do all this stuff.
00:19:53
Speaker
Then you have the Halloween episode where he's basically functioning.
00:19:57
Speaker
As Quicksilver, as her brother, they have kind of a little bit of a back and forth, and she kind of accepts that he's her brother, but not really.
00:20:06
Speaker
What happened to your accident?
00:20:07
Speaker
Well, what happened to your accent?
00:20:10
Speaker
They have that moment.
00:20:12
Speaker
They give them the super speed.
00:20:13
Speaker
They give them kind of the homemade version of the comic-accurate Quicksilver outfit.
00:20:19
Speaker
They do all this.
00:20:20
Speaker
They give him still super speed when he's kind of acting as Agnes kind of thug.
00:20:26
Speaker
And then his name is Ralph Boner.
00:20:28
Speaker
Like, are you kidding me?
00:20:29
Speaker
Like, it just... It's probably...
00:20:34
Speaker
It's probably my least favorite thing that Marvel's done with their whole cinematic universe.
00:20:40
Speaker
I'm just going to, I think I'll, I think I'm, I'm confident enough to say that.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:45
Speaker
The Mandarin twist that I'm using air quotes as big as I possibly can apply here was terrible.
00:20:51
Speaker
And this is also terrible.
00:20:52
Speaker
And there's really nobody that looks at Iron Man three and says, man, what a cool twist that was like, you don't ever hear it being discussed that way.
00:21:01
Speaker
It's,
00:21:01
Speaker
In most cases, everybody is doing the same thing you're saying, Matt.
00:21:06
Speaker
Like, wow, what a waste.
00:21:07
Speaker
Like, what an absolute waste.
00:21:10
Speaker
And they repeated that same mistake here.
00:21:13
Speaker
And I'm going to jump in the same camp with you where as we sit here today, this is what we know.
00:21:19
Speaker
We know that he was not actually Pietro from the X-Men universe.
00:21:25
Speaker
As we sit here today, that's what we believe.
00:21:28
Speaker
That could change down the future.
00:21:30
Speaker
I don't necessarily believe that it will at this point.
00:21:33
Speaker
I've been wrong about a lot of things with WandaVision, but it doesn't seem like necessarily that's what they intend.
00:21:40
Speaker
It's a throwaway.
00:21:41
Speaker
Like if you're going to do that, what was the point of even adding Pietro to this show?
00:21:46
Speaker
Like not only casting this actor for this role, but what did you even need him for?
00:21:52
Speaker
He really didn't serve any real purpose that you could have had a different cliffhanger for the fifth episode.
00:21:59
Speaker
There really wasn't a whole lot that he needed to be there for.
00:22:03
Speaker
And it feels like...
00:22:07
Speaker
I kind of, I feel like my emotions are betrayed and I kind of feel like as a fan, that's somewhat disrespectful to me.
00:22:13
Speaker
I think is, is the way that I'm looking at it.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:19
Speaker
I mean,
00:22:21
Speaker
Don't forget to like I kind of one thing and I'll close my thoughts on this that kind of aggravated me a little bit more is the nod that they put in to X-Men Days of Future Past later in the episode when and I forget the kid's name.
00:22:40
Speaker
When he goes to stop the guards, it's literally he takes the guy's hat.
00:22:45
Speaker
It's literally like the scene from Days of Future Past where Quicksilver runs around the room playing time in a bottle and he puts the cop's hat on.
00:22:55
Speaker
you get that like little Easter egg back to that movie.
00:22:58
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh, don't reference the fact that he was in the, like, don't, don't double down on the fact that you know what you're doing.
00:23:05
Speaker
And then like slap me in the face.
00:23:07
Speaker
Like, Oh, so like having that Easter egg in there kind of aggravated me a little bit more, but that's, that's just me.
00:23:17
Speaker
Um,
00:23:20
Speaker
I feel like Rob does, so to speak, that at face value, it's pretty disappointing.
00:23:24
Speaker
But there's still a lot of good with this episode.
00:23:29
Speaker
So...
00:23:31
Speaker
I really would like to start talking about some of the good stuff unless, you know, Harrison, do you have anything else nitpicking wise that you want to get out of the way before?
00:23:41
Speaker
Again, I don't want to bag on this episode because there's a lot here that I am emotionally invested in.
00:23:46
Speaker
So I'll just say, Harrison, do you have anything else that we want to get out of the way with this?
00:23:52
Speaker
And let's move on to what we love about this episode.
00:23:57
Speaker
It's not necessarily one specific thing.
00:23:59
Speaker
It's just that I wish they would have fleshed everything out more.
Emotional Core and Character Motives
00:24:03
Speaker
For example, the emotional... Sorry, let me start this sentence over.
00:24:10
Speaker
This is the most emotionally character-driven...
00:24:14
Speaker
thing we've ever had in the MCU.
00:24:17
Speaker
There were attempts for this, like we keep talking about Iron Man 3.
00:24:19
Speaker
That was an attempt at having a story focused around someone's emotional state of being, and it was a total fail.
00:24:25
Speaker
Like, at least in that aspect.
00:24:27
Speaker
We can talk about the rest of it later.
00:24:30
Speaker
Do we have to, though?
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, right.
00:24:33
Speaker
So, like, the amount of work that went into...
00:24:37
Speaker
me being emotionally involved in Wanda and vision and also understanding both of them emotionally, mentally, all of those things is really significant and a strong step in a good direction for the MCU and is incredibly interesting and, excuse me, really creative, but there's other things that aren't taken up to that level.
00:24:58
Speaker
And, you know, you can't be firing on all cylinders all the time.
00:25:01
Speaker
I get that.
00:25:02
Speaker
But,
00:25:03
Speaker
What I am disappointed is, is what was holding you back from making the episodes 20 minutes longer or 10 minutes longer and having these little details fleshed out a little bit more where the references were something besides just a reference.
00:25:17
Speaker
The amount of times that Agatha or Agnes referred to her husband, Ralph, and...
00:25:26
Speaker
all the ways that it hinted at him being Mephisto, all the ways that things hinted at the multiverse.
00:25:31
Speaker
I'm sure we're going to get things for these to play out in the future.
00:25:35
Speaker
Maybe we're not.
00:25:36
Speaker
They were all just red herrings.
00:25:37
Speaker
But whether it's the complaints about Evan Peters or about the missing person or about the engineer or these little things that were really hinted at that the three of us spent hours talking about to just let those be more fleshed out or just let the things as a whole...
00:25:56
Speaker
be more than like okay let me let me sum it up in this one sentence and stop rambling if you take out the emotional weight behind wanda this isn't a very good show uh the last episode the season as a whole i was so invested in because of the emotional weight for wanda and provision and what it meant and it brought me to tears it did i mentioned that multiple times that i was really emotionally affected by the show if that's not there there's not much else to really hold it together so i feel like
00:26:26
Speaker
The emotion behind it is a really strong glue holding all these weak pieces together.
00:26:31
Speaker
And I just wish that all of the pieces could be as strong as the glue, so to speak.
00:26:36
Speaker
But I will say that glue is so strong that it made this series as a whole really good.
00:26:42
Speaker
And I really enjoyed it.
00:26:43
Speaker
And I, I have really loved watching it.
00:26:45
Speaker
It's just looking back now it's over and I can look back and look at it as a whole thing.
00:26:51
Speaker
It's just a little weak.
00:26:54
Speaker
Yeah, Rob, I just want to jump in really quick.
00:26:57
Speaker
I will say I think that's a really good thought on that.
00:27:00
Speaker
My last complaint that I will have is speaking of the emotion.
00:27:07
Speaker
Once you find out everything that's going to happen and you really kind of get an idea for how this is going to end.
00:27:15
Speaker
The ending scene between Wanda and Vision did not pack as much of an emotional punch as I feel it should.
00:27:25
Speaker
And I don't think there was any way you were going to convince somebody that Vision will be gone for good.
00:27:33
Speaker
However, after they spent so much time building them up and getting them specifically for me, because I've talked about it, two characters that I did not care about.
00:27:44
Speaker
Not only did I not care about their relationship, I really kind of did not care about them individually at all.
00:27:50
Speaker
I didn't think they were fleshed out all that well in the movies that they were a part of.
00:27:55
Speaker
So to get me as invested as I was in them,
00:28:00
Speaker
I didn't feel the emotional payoff of the goodbye, knowing what we know is still out there for vision.
00:28:10
Speaker
That's, that's my last thing where it doesn't, it's not a huge problem for me, but I wish I would have felt more at these last moments, which I'm sure we'll get into.
00:28:24
Speaker
But that's my last thing, Rob, what do you got?
00:28:28
Speaker
A little bit of a little smattering of everything we've kind of talked about, but I kind of want to talk about S.W.O.R.D.
00:28:34
Speaker
and Tyler Hayward in general.
00:28:37
Speaker
Throughout this series, their motives seem contradictory at times, his specifically.
00:28:43
Speaker
It kind of seems like he flips into villain mode based on when it's convenient for the plot or when the plot needs a villain to sort of show himself as opposed to like, when you stop and ask yourself a question, like why exactly is he doing this?
00:28:55
Speaker
Oh, because we need a dramatic moment.
00:28:57
Speaker
Like why is he shooting at the kids right now?
00:28:59
Speaker
Like,
00:29:00
Speaker
That escalated quickly.
00:29:01
Speaker
Like, you know, he just, it just starts shooting at kids.
00:29:05
Speaker
Like who doesn't do that?
00:29:07
Speaker
Just, Hey, this seems to not be going well.
00:29:09
Speaker
Time to pull out my gun and shoot at kids.
00:29:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:11
Speaker
Well, why?
00:29:11
Speaker
Like, it just doesn't make sense except that that's what you needed at that moment in time.
00:29:15
Speaker
And it kind of seemed like that's what Monica Rambeau's character needed to fully let us see what her,
00:29:21
Speaker
you know, photon or spectrum or whatever she's going to go by.
00:29:25
Speaker
She's, she's had some different names in the comics, you know, to kind of see what those powers look like.
00:29:30
Speaker
It just little things here and there.
00:29:32
Speaker
And then it's just like, okay, you're off to jail.
00:29:34
Speaker
Like, no, he probably wouldn't be like, that's, um,
00:29:38
Speaker
he really wouldn't be, he'd get out of it.
00:29:40
Speaker
Like there's just so many things that just, I don't really understand what they were doing.
00:29:44
Speaker
I don't understand what he was doing at times.
00:29:46
Speaker
Um, he seemed very compelling and interesting at different parts of this, but then I just feel like the way they ended it with him, I just didn't really like, um, I also kind of nitpicky, but the way her accent just goes in and out all the time, like pick one, like just pick one.
00:30:02
Speaker
I don't know that maybe it's, maybe it's just me.
00:30:05
Speaker
Um,
00:30:07
Speaker
the final scene,
00:30:09
Speaker
I actually, I kind of disagree with what Matt said a little bit.
00:30:12
Speaker
I did find that to be quite emotional.
00:30:15
Speaker
Um, with one caveat, man, that wall sure closes slow, doesn't it?
00:30:20
Speaker
Like it seemed like it was going really fast across the rest of town.
00:30:24
Speaker
And then when they're getting ready to say goodbye to one another and we need this longer drawn out, like, you know, um, kissy huggy sort of tear jerky scene, that thing starts moving really, really slowly.
00:30:39
Speaker
you know, um, and then, you know, knowing that the kids are going to kind of evaporate and disappear was kind of like, Hey, wait a second.
00:30:45
Speaker
No, I, I kind of need to know about that.
00:30:46
Speaker
Like that's, I'm a little more interested in that idea.
00:30:49
Speaker
And maybe it's just cause I am a dad and that, that part of it, you know, when they said goodnight to their kids, like, I was like, this is kind of messed up.
00:30:56
Speaker
Like, this is really kind of messed up.
00:30:57
Speaker
Like they know they're going to disappear and they're just tucking them into bed.
00:31:00
Speaker
And yeah, that was kind of messed up to me.
00:31:02
Speaker
Um,
00:31:04
Speaker
And we get to watch Vision die a third time.
00:31:07
Speaker
Like, yay.
00:31:09
Speaker
Because who didn't ask for that?
00:31:13
Speaker
I think that's probably my list of nitpicky stuff.
00:31:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think all pretty good, solid points there.
00:31:23
Speaker
But let's...
00:31:26
Speaker
You know, let's get into the good, because, again, there's a lot to like about this episode.
Production Value and Visual Excellence
00:31:32
Speaker
And first and foremost, to me, is the production of this episode.
00:31:37
Speaker
We get, you know, a vision versus vision fight.
00:31:42
Speaker
We get to see Wanda using her powers.
00:31:44
Speaker
And there's certainly no skimping on the budget or the effects in this show.
00:31:51
Speaker
I mean, to me, this was up on par and even better than some of the stuff we got in some of these Marvel movies.
00:31:59
Speaker
When Vision is fighting and they're flying around and they're phasing in and out of each other, throwing punches, it's all absolutely...
00:32:09
Speaker
top notch.
00:32:11
Speaker
And I was just blown away with the production level.
00:32:15
Speaker
And it makes me even more excited for these other shows that seem like there'll be a little bit more action focus, like Falcon and the winter soldier that boy, they, they,
00:32:26
Speaker
It's not they're like, well, we got to kind of hold back because, you know, we don't really have a budget like this isn't a TV network show.
00:32:32
Speaker
This is Disney saying, no, we're treating these like live action movies.
00:32:37
Speaker
So, Harrison, I'll let you go first.
00:32:41
Speaker
What do you think about some of the production in this and some of the things I talked about?
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah, something that really makes me appreciate this season, or I gotta stop calling this season, the series as a whole, is that I remind myself this started in black and white as like a 50s sitcom.
00:32:59
Speaker
That episode is the same one as the last, like the same series as the last one.
00:33:03
Speaker
We traversed time and space of television.
00:33:09
Speaker
And the production was top notch in everything.
00:33:13
Speaker
And
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's all I'll say.
00:33:19
Speaker
Rob, what are your thoughts on how they, I mean, even as a whole, the way that they treated this show, again, this is not where we want to do it, but we're not going to go, you know, in terms of production, we're not going to go all out.
00:33:34
Speaker
There's nothing held back with this.
00:33:37
Speaker
Not at all.
00:33:39
Speaker
I think you talked about the CG and the overall level of production that we got here.
00:33:44
Speaker
It felt like this was another piece of the MCU.
00:33:48
Speaker
This did not feel like they were cutting the budget a little bit and cutting corners with some of the effects to save money because they didn't necessarily want to blow it out to the budget of
00:33:58
Speaker
of, you know, an Avengers level film, you know, the fight scene between vision and vision, which, you know, one of the critiques that I and many others have of the MCU as a whole is that, man, there's a whole lot of people fighting other people with the exact same power set as them.
00:34:13
Speaker
And we kind of got that here too.
00:34:15
Speaker
You know, we had vision on vision.
00:34:16
Speaker
They're literally the same character.
00:34:17
Speaker
And then we had two witches kind of battling back and forth.
00:34:20
Speaker
So, okay.
00:34:22
Speaker
Once again, we're right back with characters with the same power sets fighting each other.
00:34:26
Speaker
But I really liked the creativity that was used in the vision on vision fight.
00:34:32
Speaker
You know, I think kind of my gold standard in the MCU for just absolutely wild creativity with how characters with these abilities or access to powers that do these kinds of things was, was an ant man.
00:34:45
Speaker
I just love the growing and shrinking and the way that he, they used his,
00:34:50
Speaker
those, um, those ideas and made compelling, interesting fights.
00:34:54
Speaker
That was just more than kind of your, some of your slapstick, you know, um, just basic punching and stuff like that, that we get in, in other action films.
00:35:03
Speaker
Uh, there was real creativity with that.
00:35:05
Speaker
And I saw that also here, you know, if a character could phase in and out, um, and had the ability to fly and had the ability to do some of these things, what would that actually look like?
00:35:14
Speaker
And I thought it was done spectacularly.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, I was a huge fan of the Vision fight scenes.
00:35:23
Speaker
Also, too, I thought this was another episode as it progressed with Wanda.
00:35:30
Speaker
She became more and more confident in her abilities.
00:35:35
Speaker
You start to see it on her face.
00:35:38
Speaker
I love the part where she disappears and sneaks up behind and she does the mind control thing, similar to age of Ultron.
00:35:48
Speaker
When she takes over the Avengers that I love that aspect.
00:35:53
Speaker
And I loved the progression for her throughout this episode.
00:35:58
Speaker
And I sent you guys a picture of it, but when she goes full Scarlet, which mode, wow.
00:36:07
Speaker
Um,
00:36:08
Speaker
This is to me, one of the best costumes in the MCU.
00:36:14
Speaker
Like I'm absolutely stunned by the costume that they have for Wanda.
00:36:22
Speaker
I thought it was fantastic.
00:36:24
Speaker
I didn't know what to expect for it, but I just blown away by it.
00:36:29
Speaker
Rob, what are your thoughts on, on her in this episode?
00:36:33
Speaker
Yeah, I love the moment where she kind of really assumes that mantle and we get what I would call perhaps a more like practical and modest version of the comic version of her costume, which is, you know, the comic version bears a lot of skin, which doesn't necessarily always translate the film very well, nor should it all the time.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
Just, you know, here's what it is.
00:36:59
Speaker
Like, I don't know that we necessarily need that.
00:37:00
Speaker
You know, we're trying to get families to watch this together.
00:37:03
Speaker
Um, but, uh, no, it, it looked fantastic.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I, uh, I was really excited to see what they had done with it.
00:37:11
Speaker
Um, and I, and I'm happy to see that they're hopefully going to continue that, you know, we saw another glimpse of it at the end credit scene.
00:37:17
Speaker
Um, but man, when she puts those runes up in the, in the sky, you know, it, it seemed kind of obvious to me that she was missing on purpose.
00:37:25
Speaker
Um,
00:37:25
Speaker
um and i wasn't sure what that was like i didn't necessarily put two and two together that it was for the runes uh but when she kind of um you know shows her final like put that final piece in emotion and just makes checkmate um what a phenomenal mic drop moment that is it's just like click boom and it's it was just awesome i mean i was like jumping up off my couch like fist pumping in the air i was so excited about that moment um it was it you know it showed
00:37:55
Speaker
One, it can be vulnerable.
00:37:57
Speaker
It showed one, it can be loving.
00:37:59
Speaker
It showed one, it can be a lot of things.
00:38:01
Speaker
It also showed one, it can be a frigging bad-ass too.
00:38:05
Speaker
And yeah,
00:38:06
Speaker
Moving forward, the character that Matt, I agree with you.
00:38:09
Speaker
I didn't particularly care that much about her in previous films that we'd seen her in.
00:38:16
Speaker
I want to see her in everything.
00:38:18
Speaker
I want to see Wanda in every Avengers film moving forward.
00:38:21
Speaker
I want to see her cross over into as many things as we can get.
00:38:25
Speaker
I want to see more of what's going to happen next with this character.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, Harrison, your thoughts on Wanda.
00:38:35
Speaker
I agree with everything you guys said.
00:38:36
Speaker
Earlier when you asked me about the production, I was thinking about so many things, so I just had a brief comment.
00:38:43
Speaker
But I got to say that
00:38:45
Speaker
this show has done a lot.
00:38:47
Speaker
And one thing that it has done phenomenally well is the costuming.
00:38:51
Speaker
And I, I just want to touch on that one more time is I think it's just great.
00:38:54
Speaker
Everything they've done with that, but also just to kind of echo everything you guys have said, you guys have said to make, uh, you know, we can kind of nitpick and say, Oh, it's, you know, a hero and a villain with the same powers fighting each other, but to make those exciting and to make them,
00:39:12
Speaker
interesting and to make them kind of unique and something more than just like a blast battle so to speak i i really enjoyed it and i was really impressed with and i i remember watching when one when agatha goes like user magic and it doesn't work and the runes appear i was like oh dang that was sweet like it's just like the way that these things escalate my appreciation for wanda as a character
00:39:42
Speaker
I had no idea.
00:39:43
Speaker
When I pressed play on episode one and I saw that black and white 50s sitcom, did I know that at the end of this series I was going to be really involved in Wanda?
00:39:50
Speaker
No clue.
00:39:51
Speaker
I had no idea.
00:39:52
Speaker
I was excited to get a House of M adaptation and to get the multiverse.
Wanda's Transformation and Future Speculations
00:39:58
Speaker
We got a loose House of M adaptation, which again props to them for adapting such an iconic story so well to existing characters.
00:40:07
Speaker
Where was I going with that?
00:40:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:40:10
Speaker
I wanted the multiverse.
00:40:11
Speaker
Like, that's all I cared.
00:40:12
Speaker
Like, forget Wanda and Vision.
00:40:13
Speaker
What I want from WandaVision is the multiverse.
00:40:15
Speaker
Well, we haven't gotten the multiverse yet, but what I got is a huge, huge appreciation for Wanda and Vision emotionally as individuals, as people who really are kind of broken, but also appreciation as like a hero who can get up and just be a total boss and own a battle.
00:40:31
Speaker
I had no idea.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think we kind of talked about, too, where there's some things left unanswered.
00:40:39
Speaker
But one of the things that works being left unanswered, because she's so intriguing now, is Wanda.
00:40:48
Speaker
And one of the lines that piques my interest in this show is Agatha talking to her.
00:40:54
Speaker
And I'm probably not going to get this line exactly right, but she says, like...
00:40:59
Speaker
powerful enough to destroy the Sorcerer Supreme.
00:41:03
Speaker
Anybody who's watched the MCU knows that the Sorcerer Supreme is Doctor Strange.
00:41:08
Speaker
WandaVision will be in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
00:41:12
Speaker
But the simple fact that it's mentioned that she can destroy him and is more powerful is
00:41:19
Speaker
Well, what does that mean?
00:41:20
Speaker
Like, are we going to see the two of them fight each other?
00:41:24
Speaker
Like, oh, you took a character that again, I cannot stress this enough.
00:41:29
Speaker
I didn't care about at all.
00:41:32
Speaker
And now you've made her one of like my number one intriguing options going forward with.
00:41:39
Speaker
well, is she always an overarching problem in the MCU going forward?
00:41:46
Speaker
Because at any moment, she could snap because she's still probably very broken.
00:41:54
Speaker
It's not like this season ends with everything's tied up in a bow and Wanda's great.
00:41:59
Speaker
The end credit scene surely shows that everything is not okay and there might be more trouble on the horizon.
00:42:06
Speaker
But man, have they made her...
00:42:09
Speaker
just incredibly interesting to me.
00:42:11
Speaker
So, you know, Rob, anything you want to piggyback off of with that?
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of want to go a little bit further on something you started to allude to.
00:42:21
Speaker
For the future of the MCU, is Wanda going to be a hero?
00:42:25
Speaker
Is she going to be a villain?
00:42:26
Speaker
Is she going to be somebody who sets things in motion that other characters now have to respond to or deal with because she's pursuing her own interests that might not necessarily line up with others' interests?
00:42:43
Speaker
I think that we could see a little bit of both.
00:42:46
Speaker
Certainly, I think it's the 47th or 48th end credit scene.
00:42:50
Speaker
I can't remember which one it was.
00:42:53
Speaker
But we see her researching something in that little valley cabin she built for herself.
00:43:01
Speaker
And we hear the kids saying, mom, mom, help us, rescue us or something along those lines.
00:43:08
Speaker
So you have every reason to believe she's trying to figure out how to do that.
00:43:14
Speaker
what she's going to be messing with in order to get there, whether or not they adapt the actual Genesis of those characters from the comics where like they're forged out of a piece of Mephisto's soul, which is going to get like really, really out there.
00:43:29
Speaker
Um,
00:43:29
Speaker
I, as much as I didn't think that, um, Agatha Harkness was going to be in this show initially.
00:43:35
Speaker
And I, and I kind of stood, uh, pretty firmly and said, I don't think that's a thing.
00:43:38
Speaker
I think they're going to probably be, you know, I don't want to get too supernatural.
00:43:42
Speaker
I don't think we're going to really get Mephisto.
00:43:44
Speaker
I think there's maybe still a limit, even though we did get Agatha, I was completely wrong on that.
00:43:48
Speaker
Um,
00:43:49
Speaker
I'm just not necessarily convinced.
00:43:51
Speaker
Maybe we see Mephisto in Ghost Rider because we are still supposed to get that, I think.
00:43:58
Speaker
I'm not necessarily sure that we're going to really start getting into pieces of soul forming children level territory in the MCU.
00:44:06
Speaker
So I think they'll adapt that differently.
00:44:09
Speaker
But something she's going to try to do to get her kids back could certainly lead to events in the multiverse of madness.
00:44:19
Speaker
Yeah, Harrison, anything you want to follow up with on that?
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's actually a big thing that I want to mention is to compare, not to compare, but to tell Wanda that her powers exceeds that of the Sorcerer Supreme.
00:44:33
Speaker
All right.
00:44:33
Speaker
So this is the guy who not even at like his peak ability saw 14 million potential futures, single-handedly fought Thanos pretty well on his own, and...
00:44:47
Speaker
kind of like master plan the whole successful end battle of end game on top of just working like epic looking spells and being a genius wanders powers exceeds his like that's incredible i hope that they we they just capitalize on that instead of just getting red glowy beam shooting out everywhere we get some of the great style that we got with doctor strange and uh wanders vision
00:45:12
Speaker
Did I just say Wanda's vision?
00:45:14
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:45:15
Speaker
Wanda's powers can start to become a little bit more fleshed out, which I'm super excited about.
00:45:23
Speaker
So yeah, something that I thought about that I don't talk about very much, but
00:45:28
Speaker
when you were talking about, oh, what's the deal with Wanda?
00:45:30
Speaker
If she could snap at any moment and become a villain, I think about this frequently.
00:45:35
Speaker
When in Endgame, when Carol Danvers or Captain Marvel shows up and just wrecks day, which is a sweet scene.
00:45:41
Speaker
I love that moment.
00:45:42
Speaker
It makes me clap.
00:45:43
Speaker
But when that happens and she just destroys Thanos' ship and then pretty much single-handedly fights Thanos until he cheats with a Power Stone, like in my head after I was like, okay, I don't even care if she's OP.
00:45:54
Speaker
Like just fix it later.
00:45:56
Speaker
Because in that moment, she's really is just kind of like, geez, how do you have a threat after that without it being another Thanos?
00:46:05
Speaker
So thinking about all of that, where was I going?
00:46:09
Speaker
I have too many thoughts.
00:46:10
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:46:10
Speaker
So Wanda is now supposedly up there in like OP level.
00:46:15
Speaker
How are you going to have villains that are threatening if these characters are this powerful?
00:46:20
Speaker
One thing.
00:46:20
Speaker
there's part of it that they're learning their powers and growing into them.
00:46:24
Speaker
But the second thing is, I hope that it's a kind of a continuation of what we got in WandaVision where the threat isn't so much
00:46:31
Speaker
a villain, but it's, and their physical presence or physical dominance that you have to win in a fight, but more of like an emotional or intellectual battle like Wanda had in the series where things, emotional lines are great.
00:46:47
Speaker
I'm thinking like Civil War and Civil War II comics, specifically Civil War II, where it's not so much a fight of
00:46:54
Speaker
You know, physical presence or dominance or power, but it is of intellect and emotion and reason because that's threatening and that's menacing.
00:47:02
Speaker
If we can get villains that challenge these physically overpowered characters, which we're getting more and more of and challenge them in a unique way, I'm really excited for.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
00:47:17
Speaker
I think this show, you know, showcase that you don't have to have huge battles to make it interesting.
00:47:26
Speaker
There's a lot of emotional weight behind this series.
00:47:29
Speaker
And, you know, one of those emotional weight scenes, Rob, I know from talking to you, you really love this.
00:47:37
Speaker
So I will let you kick it off.
00:47:40
Speaker
You love the dialogue between vision and vision when the fighting stops.
00:47:46
Speaker
You're a big fan of that.
00:47:47
Speaker
So do you mind kind of talking us through your thoughts on that?
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah, so we get something kind of different.
00:47:54
Speaker
Normally when good guys fight the bad guys in these kinds of things, there's a lot of explosions.
00:48:00
Speaker
There's a lot of, you know, there's pretty much no wall made out of concrete that's safe because it's going to get a person thrown through it.
00:48:07
Speaker
Like you're just guaranteed that that's going to happen.
00:48:09
Speaker
Anything breakable in the room is going to get shattered, destroyed.
00:48:13
Speaker
You know, property values in the area are definitely going to fall because the insurance adjusters are going to be very, very busy for days after, you know, these guys fight.
00:48:22
Speaker
But right in the middle, they make a choice to instead of vision defeating vision by punches or powers or beams or energy or any of these other things, they actually have him defeat him through logic and through reasoning.
00:48:40
Speaker
And to really, and it works, it works incredibly for both of them.
00:48:46
Speaker
There's a reason why, you know, the colorful vision says what he says.
00:48:51
Speaker
And there's a reason the white vision listens and chooses to allow him the opportunity with the whole ship of Theseus discussion, which is one of those really fun thought experiments.
00:49:00
Speaker
There's a bunch of them out there.
00:49:01
Speaker
If you ever get time to research thought experiments, they're one of those ones that like,
00:49:08
Speaker
I wouldn't say start doing it right before you go to bed.
00:49:10
Speaker
Cause you'll be upstairs and at the ceiling.
00:49:11
Speaker
I'm not trying to figure them out.
00:49:12
Speaker
Like maybe do it on lunch.
00:49:14
Speaker
Like don't do it at night.
00:49:15
Speaker
Cause you'll be, you'll be done.
00:49:16
Speaker
Like, you'll be like, Oh my God, why did I do that?
00:49:18
Speaker
But the ship with Theseus is a good one.
00:49:21
Speaker
And for him to throw it out there and it works perfectly in it.
00:49:25
Speaker
And it kind of causes him to short circuit just temporarily enough for him to say, may I, and he asks permission.
00:49:32
Speaker
And the white vision gives him permission to do it.
00:49:35
Speaker
And it just, everything about that scene from the moment they start the conversation till the end of it works.
00:49:43
Speaker
Every detail, every shot, every piece of dialogue, every decision works.
00:49:50
Speaker
I love it.
00:49:50
Speaker
It's just, it's one of my favorite scenes of this whole series.
00:49:56
Speaker
Harrison, what are your thoughts on this part of the episode?
00:49:59
Speaker
Because it is different.
00:50:01
Speaker
It's interesting for a fight to just break down to a conversation immediately.
00:50:06
Speaker
So what are your thoughts?
00:50:08
Speaker
Well, first, I've been thinking about the ship of theses quite a while now.
00:50:12
Speaker
Luckily, not staring up to the ceiling at night, but I think about it frequently.
00:50:17
Speaker
And specifically in where the heck did White Vision go and when is he coming back?
00:50:23
Speaker
Because I want more of him.
00:50:25
Speaker
Especially to see what someone with Vision's memories, but not the Mind Stone, is going to become.
00:50:33
Speaker
But that's a whole other question that you didn't ask.
00:50:35
Speaker
So what I do think about that moment is that, kind of like I said earlier, I think it's great to...
00:50:41
Speaker
as much as I thought it was really cool to see the two visions use their powers against each other in a unique way, like one of them phasing and catching the other's punch in his arm and then throwing him, you know, with his hand in his arm, that type of thing.
00:50:54
Speaker
That was really cool, but it kind of got boring because it looked kind of cartoony.
00:50:57
Speaker
Like, Oh, there's just these like guys who first props to the VFX people to making these people not look like they're flying, but they're people who are adjusting their density and, um,
00:51:08
Speaker
floating around so to speak through adjusting their density i mean that was sweet to see they really capture that but it can get boring uh really quickly and so to slow that down and have it be a battle that's consistent with the character of vision was sweet and i i had no idea i did not expect it i thought they were going to punch each other till the live long day one of their brains falls out
00:51:32
Speaker
But we didn't get that.
00:51:33
Speaker
One of their brains exploded into memories and then he disappeared.
00:51:37
Speaker
So I prefer this because I think that it's – I don't have – this isn't the right word, but it's the word that's coming to mind.
00:51:46
Speaker
It's challenging to the – yeah, there we go.
00:51:50
Speaker
It's challenging to the concepts that we're used to.
00:51:53
Speaker
as far as a fight goes.
00:51:54
Speaker
And I hope we get more of that.
00:51:56
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong.
00:51:57
Speaker
I'm super excited for Falcon and the Winter Soldier on explosions and people punching each other at full speed.
00:52:02
Speaker
But, you know, I like a challenge here.
00:52:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's incredibly well put.
00:52:08
Speaker
I certainly like this.
00:52:10
Speaker
I wasn't really a fan of it during my first watch, too.
00:52:15
Speaker
And not that I didn't like it, but I had a much better...
00:52:20
Speaker
understanding and appreciation for it on my second watch through of wow this is so much different than what we're used to and in terms of why this character would do this it may you know it just makes so much sense for talking about some things like well why did you do that that didn't make sense or like why did you not take this opportunity and
00:52:42
Speaker
This is something that when you break it down, it makes sense why this happened between these two characters.
00:52:50
Speaker
So I loved it.
00:52:52
Speaker
I thought it was a great scene.
00:52:53
Speaker
It did pack emotion for me.
00:52:56
Speaker
And again, getting back to emotion, this is backtracking, but...
00:53:01
Speaker
When Agatha turns the people of Westview off, so to speak, and they're back to their own reality, when they start approaching Wanda, wow.
Psychological and Emotional Depth
00:53:14
Speaker
You get again for a moment, yeah, she did create this.
00:53:18
Speaker
She's kept these people captive, and...
00:53:23
Speaker
When is it Rob?
00:53:26
Speaker
Is it Dottie or who's who's the girl that comes up to her and talks about her daughter?
00:53:30
Speaker
I'm drawing an absolute blank of her character's name.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yep.
00:53:34
Speaker
It's Dottie.
00:53:34
Speaker
She was kind of the the HOA kind of ringleader or the PTA, I think, president or whatever it was from the second episode.
00:53:43
Speaker
If you've forgotten about her by now, I wouldn't blame you.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, so Dottie, but when she comes up to her and just says, I have a girl, if she could be friends with your boys, if that works for you, if you would just let her out of her room, please.
00:54:02
Speaker
It didn't turn me in like, oh God, Wanda, you're such a jerk.
00:54:07
Speaker
How could you have done this?
00:54:08
Speaker
But man, again, it's so impactful to sit there and once again, just be kind of punched with the fact of...
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah, there's probably still, regardless of how this ended, there should still be a lot for Wanda to answer for.
00:54:24
Speaker
And again, she seems like she's okay with it at the end of the episode, but I don't know how you could...
00:54:34
Speaker
just forget everything that you did.
00:54:38
Speaker
Even though these people are now free, she really messed with a lot.
00:54:43
Speaker
And I thought that scene was fantastic.
00:54:47
Speaker
It once again, showed you the weight of what she's done to these people.
00:54:51
Speaker
Because again, as far as we know, the people of Westview and Harrison, I'll go to you first.
00:54:56
Speaker
So correct me if I'm wrong here.
00:54:59
Speaker
They still know what happened.
00:55:01
Speaker
Like,
00:55:02
Speaker
they understand where they were.
00:55:05
Speaker
So it's not like Wanda's just Scott free to me and inside of her own mind, so to speak.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah, I've actually been thinking about that a lot.
00:55:15
Speaker
Like when she closed the barriers to the hex, did she like wipe the memories?
00:55:21
Speaker
Probably not.
00:55:23
Speaker
So does that, that kind of gives her reason to be viewed as a villain more.
00:55:29
Speaker
So that could drive some motivating things.
00:55:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think that also in terms of the future of the MCU, their perception of Wanda is never going to be the same.
00:55:39
Speaker
Whether the people in Westview remember it or not,
00:55:42
Speaker
sword definitely remembers it people like darcy and uh agent woo they definitely remember it so they're not just gonna let wanda uh float around like she owns a place because she can cause some problems but at the same time they also saw wanda as a person of reason how to quote monica when you may if she's a problem she has to be the solution when you really do think about that they know whose side she's on ultimately so
00:56:08
Speaker
So yeah, it was a very interesting scene that carries a lot more weight than I really appreciated in that first moment because, uh, I think that Wanda is going to continue to deal with her own trauma, but part of that trauma is going to be what she did to other people.
00:56:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:25
Speaker
I mean, Rob, what are your thoughts on that?
00:56:27
Speaker
I mean, she does have her Thanos like retirement home out in the woods.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:33
Speaker
Um, you know, she does.
00:56:34
Speaker
It seems when she kind of, uh,
00:56:37
Speaker
pulls her hoodie up and starts walking away, it does kind of seem like she starts to process what it is that she's actually caused.
00:56:47
Speaker
We've spent a lot of time through our recaps of this show talking about her emotional state and her post-traumatic stress that she's experiencing from all these terrible tragedies that have happened in her life.
00:57:01
Speaker
I want to shift for just a second.
00:57:02
Speaker
Let's talk about the people of Westview.
00:57:06
Speaker
What kind of therapy are literally every resident of this town going to need?
00:57:12
Speaker
You think about, they were not in control of their own actions.
00:57:15
Speaker
They were not able to comprehend where their loved ones were.
00:57:21
Speaker
None of them, when they kind of break out of that, you think about when I think it's Norm gets, not Norm, one of Vision's coworkers, when he pulls them out and he's like, I got to get my phone.
00:57:30
Speaker
I got to call my sister.
00:57:31
Speaker
I got to check on my mom.
00:57:33
Speaker
You know, he's panicking.
00:57:34
Speaker
He's having some serious issues, not being in control of your own actions and being forced to kind of live a fake alternate life.
00:57:43
Speaker
That's going to mess up a lot of people in this town for a very long time.
00:57:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:49
Speaker
And it's kind of interesting to think about what that could turn into as we sort of try to decide, how will she be thought of in the future?
00:57:57
Speaker
Will she be a villain?
00:57:58
Speaker
Will she be a hero?
00:58:00
Speaker
Will they ultimately appreciate her when she shows up to take down a big bad that nobody else could have been able to do?
00:58:07
Speaker
Or will it be a mixed bag?
00:58:08
Speaker
I think they're kind of setting it up to be a mixed bag for her.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that you could certainly sit there and be like, okay, well, she realized her mistake, but if the end credit scene shows us anything, Rob, you mentioned it, she's...
00:58:27
Speaker
a la Doctor Strange when he's in his movie physically sleeping, but he's projecting himself to study.
00:58:36
Speaker
We get that as the end credit scene.
00:58:38
Speaker
She's making tea and her Scarlet Witch form is in the other room, you know, going through and studying the Darkhold.
00:58:47
Speaker
But you hear that cry out from her kids.
00:58:49
Speaker
So we've already seen what she's willing to do when she loses somebody.
00:58:55
Speaker
Well, if she thinks she can somehow get her kids back after them being wiped away, you know, to me, anybody who knows of these events, that's if they get wind of this, that's another sign to be fearful of Wanda because, okay, you, you made right West view, but now you're in the same situation.
00:59:17
Speaker
So do we have to come after you to ensure that you're not going to do this again?
00:59:22
Speaker
There's a lot there, but,
00:59:24
Speaker
But one thing that I want to piggyback on really quick too with that is Rob, when you and I did our MCU rankings, one thing that I talked about in end game that I did not like at all is how they treated Thor.
00:59:37
Speaker
And to me, hats off to Marvel because in end game, Thor's just emotionally destroyed and it's treated like a joke.
00:59:47
Speaker
This guy clearly has post-traumatic stress.
00:59:52
Speaker
It,
00:59:52
Speaker
And everybody makes a joke out of it.
00:59:54
Speaker
And that was one thing that I said in Endgame that I could just, that I did not care for.
01:00:01
Speaker
But man, Marvel knocked it out of the park with showing somebody dealing with this kind of trauma and how that can affect them.
01:00:09
Speaker
And again, like Harrison said, I'm not always hoping for these big rock'em sock'em robot fights in the MCU because...
01:00:18
Speaker
part of what made this show so great is the emotional journey and trauma that you saw these characters going through.
01:00:24
Speaker
So I just want to throw a quick shout out that they took that route with this because we've certainly seen them go the other way to the point where I just was really thrown off by how they treated Thor and end game.
01:00:37
Speaker
So I really liked that they use this with Wanda for this show.
01:00:42
Speaker
So I just want to throw that out there.
01:00:44
Speaker
I got to agree with you.
01:00:45
Speaker
If I can jump in here super quick, because in that,
01:00:48
Speaker
That's a difficult line to stick to, so to speak, is you can teeter either way.
01:00:55
Speaker
And I just want to add in there, like House of M as a comic is really famous for a reason.
01:01:02
Speaker
And something that I just keep thinking about was that this series is an adaptation of an iconic storyline that...
01:01:13
Speaker
is also fitting to characters that are pre-existing within a different universe, specifically the MCU.
01:01:20
Speaker
And to be able to adapt something and make it so unique and fitting these characters and so emotional, I'm just really impressed.
01:01:28
Speaker
I've commented in the past podcast that there was a few episodes that really brought me to tears for Wanda, and I did not care for her at all.
01:01:36
Speaker
I found her annoying as a character, and it was tons of fun to see Wanda
01:01:42
Speaker
both Elizabeth Olsen's and Paul Bettany's range emotionally and how great it was.
01:01:47
Speaker
Like my emotions were just totally manipulated.
01:01:50
Speaker
They could have just ripped my heartstrings right out at that end, which they held back a little bit, which I appreciate.
01:01:56
Speaker
And so do my tear ducts.
01:01:58
Speaker
But I was not expecting any of this.
01:02:01
Speaker
Again, to say this, when I clicked play on the very first WandaVision episode, I had some ideas.
01:02:06
Speaker
And every single week when I came back, I had my master plan of what I thought the episode was going to be.
01:02:11
Speaker
And every single week I was just impressed with what we were getting as an adaptation of an iconic story and what it meant for Wanda and just the uniqueness of this and almost like the rarity in this type of genre.
01:02:23
Speaker
You know, we had our complaints in the beginning.
01:02:25
Speaker
But when was the last time that we got something that was so...
01:02:32
Speaker
what's the word I'm searching for?
01:02:34
Speaker
So atypical.
01:02:36
Speaker
That's the word.
01:02:37
Speaker
So character focused in the MCU.
01:02:41
Speaker
And so well, you know, because we can talk about Iron Man 3 again to bring that dark horse up.
01:02:47
Speaker
That was an attempt at character focus that fell flat on his face.
01:02:52
Speaker
Went right over the handlebars.
01:02:53
Speaker
So I just, I gotta take my hats off to Marvel.
01:02:57
Speaker
They've come a long way.
01:02:58
Speaker
You know,
01:02:59
Speaker
Still some things can improve, but I like the direction that we're heading because if we can get more of this, I'm just going to be involved even more because there comes a point where the Rock'em Sock'em Robats, as fun as it is, how can you reiterate that over and over?
01:03:14
Speaker
We had 23 reiterations of it.
01:03:16
Speaker
Let's move on to something new.
01:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, Rob.
01:03:22
Speaker
You know, I probably have some thoughts on some of those things that were just said.
01:03:26
Speaker
What do you got for some of those thoughts?
01:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the things that I immediately come to as we're talking about the overall quality of this series and the time they're able to take to tell a story and build more development into characters that previously really had none.
01:03:44
Speaker
I don't remember, Matt, if it was the MCU rundown show that we did or if I had talked about it on this on this show's recap.
01:03:52
Speaker
But I really wish that we would have not gotten Civil War as a film, but we would have gotten it as a series, you know, a nine to ten episode series, because, man, if they would have really adapted.
01:04:06
Speaker
uh, more of the major events of what happened in the comic run of civil war.
01:04:12
Speaker
Um, you know, really focusing on Tony and, and Steve's kind of struggle, um, with what they were having to do and their motivations for it.
01:04:24
Speaker
Um, even in a movie as long as civil war, um, you know, there still was not enough time spent, I think developing, um,
01:04:34
Speaker
what they were feeling emotionally about why they felt so strongly about their opinion of sign the accords or don't sign the accords.
01:04:41
Speaker
And then all of a sudden when they had to meet one another, there was so much more that could have been done.
01:04:46
Speaker
I would have loved to have seen the same care given to this show, given to that storyline.
01:04:52
Speaker
So look for the future.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:54
Speaker
Keep giving me robe.
01:04:55
Speaker
Keep giving me the movies, you know, keep giving me, you know, as many films as I can get, but I would really love to see some of those really iconic,
01:05:04
Speaker
longer pieces of, of comic book history done more as, as a show, uh, where we can spend the time with it that we need to.
01:05:10
Speaker
I, it makes me very excited for what Falcon and Winter Soldier is going to look like.
01:05:15
Speaker
because look in the, in the, in the movies there's sometimes I do want a little more, but sometimes like if it's a Hulk movie, I don't really need them talking to one another.
01:05:23
Speaker
I can just kind of want them blowing each other up.
01:05:24
Speaker
Like I just want them smashing and everything to explode around them.
01:05:27
Speaker
Like that's what I want from a Hulk film.
01:05:30
Speaker
But at other times when you've got the chance to give me something like this, you know, in a, in a Dr. Strange movie, I want something a little bit slick where he tricks Dormammu with the sort of the time loop that he creates.
01:05:41
Speaker
Like I want something like that in that film.
01:05:44
Speaker
Um,
01:05:45
Speaker
know when to give me what I want.
01:05:47
Speaker
And in some cases, like we've said with WandaVision, we didn't even know that this is what we wanted, and it gave it to us in a way that we never knew to even ask for.
01:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's very well said.
01:05:59
Speaker
So, you know, I think what I want to ask you guys next is...
01:06:08
Speaker
We want to talk about obviously this is the end of WandaVision here.
01:06:12
Speaker
And we want to talk about some of our favorite episodes, some of our least favorite episodes, what we think as a whole of the show overall.
01:06:20
Speaker
But really, with everything that we've talked about and we've gone over the bad and we've gone over the good.
01:06:27
Speaker
You know, Harrison, anything on this episode particularly that you feel that we haven't touched on from your point of view that you still want to point out before we kind of move into another segment here of starting to really talk about the big picture?
01:06:42
Speaker
Yeah, let me double check here.
01:06:43
Speaker
I'm pulling up my notes here on my phone and just reading over them here.
01:06:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:06:49
Speaker
Monica.
01:06:50
Speaker
Monica Rambeau and Spectrum or whatever she's going to be called.
01:06:55
Speaker
She's great.
01:06:58
Speaker
I want... Can she be in everything from now on?
01:07:02
Speaker
I love her as a character.
01:07:03
Speaker
And she had like 30 minutes of screen time for this entire series.
01:07:08
Speaker
And every moment that she was in was phenomenal.
01:07:12
Speaker
She stole my heart.
01:07:14
Speaker
And I really rooted for her.
01:07:16
Speaker
That moment...
01:07:18
Speaker
so to take a character that we saw as like a nine or 10 year old and Captain Marvel, and then like, that's it.
01:07:24
Speaker
And to have me like totally cheering her on when she's breaking through the hex barrier and when she gains her power and having those voices playing her head, like, uh, I don't know what it is.
01:07:36
Speaker
I think it was partly the actress's, uh, performance.
01:07:39
Speaker
I think her name is Tiana Paris.
01:07:40
Speaker
If I said that wrong, I apologize.
01:07:42
Speaker
But,
01:07:43
Speaker
and the characterization that she had in the series when she was breaking through that barrier, I was clapping and cheering.
01:07:49
Speaker
Like, yeah, you got this Monica.
01:07:50
Speaker
Like, like good for you.
01:07:52
Speaker
Uh, again, bringing it back to those emotional battles, so to speak.
01:07:56
Speaker
Uh,
01:07:57
Speaker
But seeing her powers is super cool.
01:07:59
Speaker
Seeing her jump in front of a bolt to save some kids, seeing her be able to absorb kinetic energy and how it just kind of like shows that without like really spelling out both for absorbing them from a bullet and also from Wanda to seeing things through her power site or whatever you want to call it.
01:08:18
Speaker
What a great.
01:08:19
Speaker
character to come out of this series because she's awesome and I can't wait to get more of her.
01:08:23
Speaker
And I know nothing about her from the comics.
01:08:25
Speaker
I had to research her because of this show.
01:08:28
Speaker
But for somebody who had such a small part to just totally gain so much interest, what a great character to come out of this series.
01:08:37
Speaker
Rob, same question to you.
01:08:39
Speaker
You know, what do you kind of have left about this episode that you maybe feel we haven't touched on?
01:08:47
Speaker
I do want to
01:08:48
Speaker
talk about real quick, the neat little nod to the wizard of Oz towards the beginning of this, when, uh, Agatha kind of leaves her boots, uh, under the, uh, the car when it, when Wanda gets thrown at her, just kind of thought that was neat.
01:08:59
Speaker
You know, she's a witch herself.
01:09:00
Speaker
I, um, I did sort of like that.
01:09:02
Speaker
Um,
01:09:03
Speaker
you know, the one other part of this that we didn't really get a chance to talk about, um, as, as Wanda's opening and closing the hex and, and allowing real reality to, to creep in on her reality.
01:09:16
Speaker
Um, it, it kind of got me a little bit watching the kids and that version of vision sort of get dusted a little bit.
01:09:24
Speaker
Um, that, that was really well done that scene, just the, the weight behind it.
01:09:28
Speaker
And,
01:09:30
Speaker
what we were hoping that she was going to be able to accomplish, but knowing what she ultimately had to do.
01:09:35
Speaker
I don't think we gave that an opportunity to call it out for how well that was done.
01:09:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:44
Speaker
I, so I really liked the version with the kids, Rob, you mentioned it, you know, in the beginning, like, boy, that was kind of messed up.
01:09:52
Speaker
They kind of just say good night to them, but they know they're going, um,
01:09:56
Speaker
They know they're not going to be there anymore, but I think it also spoke to the fact that Wanda was aware that she couldn't hold on to this anymore, so I thought it did show character development.
01:10:13
Speaker
Like I said, I still kind of stand by my point of, at least for me,
01:10:18
Speaker
knowing that we have the other vision out there with all of the memories of Wanda and vision.
01:10:25
Speaker
Some of the final moments with Wanda and vision fell flat for me because of the fact that I was like, well, there's one out there that knows everything that they went through together.
01:10:37
Speaker
So essentially she's not really losing him.
01:10:42
Speaker
Um,
01:10:43
Speaker
And I don't know why I just, for some reason that didn't have as much emotional weight, but Rob, like you said, you know, you're a dad, I'm a dad and, you know, sitting there and having them just say, uh,
01:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, like I kind of don't even want to talk about it because I can't imagine saying, you know, I'm sure you couldn't either, like saying goodnight to your kids and knowing that's the last time that you would ever say goodnight to them.
01:11:11
Speaker
Like, how do you do that?
01:11:13
Speaker
So that was that scene right there was a ton of emotional weight.
01:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't have left their room.
01:11:21
Speaker
Like, I wouldn't have gone downstairs to say goodbye to my made-up spouse.
01:11:28
Speaker
I would have done that a little differently.
01:11:31
Speaker
So...
01:11:33
Speaker
You know, Harrison, I don't know if I, and forgive me, but what were your thoughts on those two goodbyes?
01:11:43
Speaker
Did that work for you with Wanda and Vision?
01:11:46
Speaker
I'm sorry if you did say that earlier in the episode.
01:11:50
Speaker
I think I just kind of talked on how it made me, like just the end in general made me emotional.
01:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to bring up those moments as well.
01:11:57
Speaker
Specifically Paul Bettany.
01:11:59
Speaker
I don't know.
01:11:59
Speaker
He just really drew me in.
01:12:01
Speaker
I don't have any kids.
01:12:03
Speaker
I plan to, but don't have any yet.
01:12:05
Speaker
So I don't think that the involvement of the kids had the same weight to me.
01:12:08
Speaker
Like I could recognize like, oh, that's awful.
01:12:10
Speaker
They're saying goodbye for the last time.
01:12:13
Speaker
But of course, not having that experience or something to relate to, I don't have that.
01:12:19
Speaker
The way that you guys do but what I do have is it like a very sincere relationship with my wife That's like the focus of my life right now.
01:12:26
Speaker
So saying goodbye to like made up kids is no big deal because I say goodbye to my nieces and nephews all the time but like saying goodbye to my wife was like torture so that that scene with Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen at the end when vision turns back on the light and
01:12:42
Speaker
I just, I lost it.
01:12:43
Speaker
Like I just started to cry.
01:12:44
Speaker
And then I just cried the more and more they talked and whether he comes back or not, I was just, because so, so something that I'll, I'll share.
01:12:55
Speaker
So something about me is that when I was my wife and I, we went, we met in high school.
01:13:01
Speaker
We dated each other in high school for our senior year.
01:13:04
Speaker
And both as part of the church that we're members of, we went on a mission.
01:13:07
Speaker
And, and when you do that in our church, you,
01:13:10
Speaker
For me, it was two years.
01:13:11
Speaker
For her, it was a year and a half.
01:13:13
Speaker
You say goodbye to everybody.
01:13:14
Speaker
Like, you don't have any contact with your family.
01:13:16
Speaker
Like, you do.
01:13:17
Speaker
You email them once a week.
01:13:18
Speaker
But it's not like pick up the phone and talk to them.
01:13:21
Speaker
Your life is totally different.
01:13:23
Speaker
And so we were dating and we were leaving.
01:13:26
Speaker
And it was kind of like, okay, we really like each other, but we're leaving and we're only 18.
01:13:31
Speaker
We're going to come back and maybe we'll date each other and maybe we'll get married.
01:13:35
Speaker
But honestly, we have no idea what happens if in two years we don't like each other.
01:13:38
Speaker
And so like saying goodbye to someone and hoping that they might be back, but appreciating what you had is something that like really I relate to because I've experienced that.
01:13:50
Speaker
And so I think that that moment that I'm finally putting together right now, I think that's why I was so impacted by that.
01:13:57
Speaker
Because I know what it's like to be vision in that situation.
01:14:01
Speaker
And it really moved me.
01:14:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's some really good points.
01:14:08
Speaker
It shows that we all have different reasons why we could relate to certain things in that scene.
01:14:14
Speaker
And I think, again, that's just one really great part of this show is there's a lot of different moments that
01:14:23
Speaker
different people can relate to you know obviously rob and i talked about relating to the fact of the kids and you know you're relating to the fact of you know you said goodbye to you know at the time she wasn't your wife but somebody that you know was a part of your life and well maybe i'll see you like that's weird like i'm saying goodbye to maybe see you again so you know this show did a really good job it
01:14:49
Speaker
you said it really well, Harrison, that there is, you know, there's a glue with this show that is incredibly strong, that holds a lot together.
01:15:01
Speaker
And it was a great refresher to see something that was carried by emotion and not strictly action.
01:15:08
Speaker
So, Rob, any final thoughts on that?
01:15:13
Speaker
No, no, I think we're ready to move on.
01:15:16
Speaker
All right.
01:15:17
Speaker
So,
01:15:19
Speaker
Guys, we want to talk about this show as a whole.
01:15:23
Speaker
And I think starting with...
01:15:28
Speaker
Rob, what would you say is your best episode of this show in general?
01:15:36
Speaker
We got nine of them.
01:15:38
Speaker
Some of them were really good.
01:15:40
Speaker
Some of them you look back on and who knows?
01:15:44
Speaker
Maybe we don't know until a complete second watch through if we get through one of those.
01:15:49
Speaker
But what would you say your favorite episode is of this series?
01:15:54
Speaker
You know, for me, it's episode seven, breaking the fourth wall.
01:15:58
Speaker
The one that's kind of a mid to late 2000 setting that takes some real, you know, Malcolm in the middle influences, some, some influences of, of the office.
01:16:09
Speaker
I'm sorry, that's not the Malcolm in the middle.
01:16:10
Speaker
It's the one that's more like modern family in the office.
01:16:14
Speaker
But there was, there was enough answers that we got.
01:16:19
Speaker
There was enough intrigue that was laid that, you know,
01:16:24
Speaker
I loved almost everything about it.
01:16:26
Speaker
We get the reveal of Agatha at the end.
01:16:29
Speaker
We get the whole spinoff kind of feel to Agatha all along.
01:16:35
Speaker
And I loved that episode from start to finish.
01:16:40
Speaker
All right.
01:16:41
Speaker
Harrison, your favorite episode of this.
01:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, I'm having a hard time picking.
01:16:47
Speaker
What I did real quickly while you guys were talking is I went to Disney Plus on my phone and just scrolled through all the episodes and kind of looked at the little previews they had.
01:16:53
Speaker
Now I'm scrolling through some thoughts I had written down for each one.
01:16:57
Speaker
And this is the one that I'm going to say.
01:16:59
Speaker
It's episode eight.
01:17:01
Speaker
It's called Previously On.
01:17:03
Speaker
And it's the one that I think could definitely be the weakest episode because it kind of just felt like
01:17:10
Speaker
Agatha revealing herself and then taking us through Wanda's life and then spilling it out for the people who couldn't put it together.
01:17:17
Speaker
That's kind of a dumb way to say it, but that's a lot what it was.
01:17:20
Speaker
It's like, okay, let's go to Wanda's past.
01:17:22
Speaker
Let's explain how it's led us to here we are and let's have Agatha explain to the people who can't put it together what's happening.
01:17:30
Speaker
Kind of like dumbing it down, but for whatever reason, that was the point where I knew no matter what happened, this was
01:17:38
Speaker
a five star series for me five out of five so to speak because i was just so in love with this being totally about wanda and her emotional state and how it led us to where we are and on top of that i just was broken like a twig when wanda drove in her buick
01:17:59
Speaker
to westview and saw an empty house lot that vision wrote on a map for us to grow old together and maybe it's just because i'm i'm relatively long young i've only been married for a few years and i'm very in love with my wife and so that's like a big part of my life is is romance and that it just it just broke me like a twig and i think of that episode in great fondness uh because it made me love wanda
01:18:25
Speaker
I wrote in my final review of this series that the saddest thing for me is I'm sad it's over for Wanda.
01:18:31
Speaker
I'm not so sad that it's over for me, but I'm sad it's over for Wanda.
01:18:34
Speaker
And it really was episode eight that did that for me.
01:18:38
Speaker
Okay.
01:18:40
Speaker
I have to say that my favorite episode for this series to me is episode five.
01:18:48
Speaker
And that is titled on a very special episode.
01:18:51
Speaker
And it's not because, you know, not even looking back while looking forward to where we are now.
01:18:59
Speaker
Obviously that's the episode.
01:19:00
Speaker
If people remember where we get, uh,
01:19:02
Speaker
Quicksilver at the end of the episode.
01:19:05
Speaker
But for me, it was everything that led up to that.
01:19:08
Speaker
That was really the first real, real chinks in the armor of
01:19:14
Speaker
between Wanda and vision.
01:19:16
Speaker
And there was so much emotion in that episode for me personally, especially when, you know, vision who never ever in anything that we've seen him in gets emotional, raises his voice, does anything literally yells at Wanda, um, to stop lying to him because he knows something's going on.
01:19:37
Speaker
And he's like, there's people here that you're keeping hostage.
01:19:40
Speaker
Um, yeah,
01:19:41
Speaker
I love that episode.
01:19:42
Speaker
It was incredible to me.
01:19:45
Speaker
I look back on that one extremely with, with fond memories.
01:19:50
Speaker
So for me, episode five is my favorite episode of this series, but I mean, there's so many really, really great episodes.
01:20:00
Speaker
So is that the one where she tried to roll the credits on vision?
01:20:04
Speaker
Yes.
01:20:05
Speaker
Oh, that's a great episode.
01:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:06
Speaker
Good pick.
01:20:07
Speaker
Both of you guys are good pick.
01:20:09
Speaker
Hearing you guys talking, I was like, oh, I should have picked that one.
01:20:11
Speaker
But it's just like an estimate to how good this entire series was.
01:20:16
Speaker
No takebacks, Harrison.
01:20:17
Speaker
You already said your answer.
01:20:18
Speaker
I'm like that kid in like second grade who wants to change his answer.
01:20:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:25
Speaker
oh man, you got that prize?
01:20:26
Speaker
I want that.
01:20:27
Speaker
It's like show and tell.
01:20:29
Speaker
I don't know if you had that kid in third grade because I specifically remember in third grade, like this kid, he'd bring something for show and tell and someone else would bring someone else and one-up him and he'd ask the teacher to be able to present to kids.
01:20:41
Speaker
That's what I feel like right now.
01:20:47
Speaker
What would be Harrison?
01:20:48
Speaker
I'll let you go first on this one.
01:20:51
Speaker
What is your least favorite episode of this series?
01:20:56
Speaker
Yeah, let me scroll through here again.
01:21:02
Speaker
Let me let me double check.
01:21:03
Speaker
I think I know, but I'm going to go with episode two.
01:21:11
Speaker
Um, because I think that it should have just been part of episode one and been longer.
01:21:16
Speaker
Like they did the double release.
01:21:17
Speaker
Why not just make it one episode?
01:21:19
Speaker
Uh, and just cause I like, I hardly remember anything to happen in that episode, except for that their beds scooted together.
01:21:24
Speaker
Like that's how I remember.
01:21:25
Speaker
Uh, so I mean, great introduction, really, really strong introduction to the show.
01:21:31
Speaker
But I think that episode two isn't good without episode one.
01:21:35
Speaker
But then again, it's been a few weeks since I watched episode two or episode one.
01:21:39
Speaker
But again, if I can't remember it, it's default the least favorite.
01:21:45
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:21:45
Speaker
Rob, I'll let you cap this part of it off.
01:21:48
Speaker
So I'll jump in with, for me, it was episode three because we talked about it in our review.
01:21:59
Speaker
That was the episode where I was like, okay, episodes one and two, I can understand the slow
Episode Critiques and Series Progression
01:22:05
Speaker
build.
01:22:05
Speaker
We're trying to figure out what this show was.
01:22:08
Speaker
Episode three felt like,
01:22:11
Speaker
the hardest episode to get through because it was three episodes of the same thing and we said it on the show but i remember you know at the end of that episode going boy if something does not happen here in episode four i'm a little nervous for this show um
01:22:33
Speaker
So I just remember looking back at that episode and going, whew, this one's pretty rough to get through here.
01:22:40
Speaker
I feel like for me, that one, like one, two, and three could have been combined into just one whole thing.
01:22:49
Speaker
Harrison, you're saying, why not just do one and two?
01:22:51
Speaker
I felt like one, two, and three really could have just been
01:22:55
Speaker
one whole thing so for me episode three was the weakest of this series um rob where do you stand uh mad i'm with you episode three um at the at the time when we reviewed it um
01:23:10
Speaker
on Mondays with Maximoff.
01:23:13
Speaker
I just kept referring and thinking back to Monty Python doesn't get on with it.
01:23:18
Speaker
You know, like, okay, we get it.
01:23:20
Speaker
She's got trauma.
01:23:20
Speaker
She created this fake world to live in so that she could deal with it.
01:23:24
Speaker
And she's trying to make everything I you know, this idyllic version of it.
01:23:27
Speaker
And we're going through TV history like, okay, we get it.
01:23:31
Speaker
Let's
01:23:32
Speaker
Let's see something already.
01:23:33
Speaker
And we do get it when Geraldine gets booted out of the hex and is surrounded by the S.W.R.D.
01:23:39
Speaker
agents.
01:23:39
Speaker
We start to get, you know, when she mentions Pietro for the first time and, you know, we get a little bit of it there.
01:23:47
Speaker
But, you know, it was definitely a slow build.
01:23:50
Speaker
And I know that it's been kind of popular online to make fun of people who complained early on.
01:23:58
Speaker
that this show had a very slow build and kind of didn't do a whole lot for a few weeks.
01:24:03
Speaker
But I think it's a valid criticism.
01:24:05
Speaker
I really do.
01:24:07
Speaker
In terms of what I rewatch this series or not, if I did, I would probably skip episode three mostly because there's not a whole lot you really need there.
01:24:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:19
Speaker
I don't know if I would ever actually rewatch this unless I was doing like just a complete MCU rerun through from start to finish and you have to include everything.
01:24:27
Speaker
Um, you know, then I, then I would, but the, um,
01:24:31
Speaker
the setup of Pietro not being really who we were hoping that he was or led to believe that he was is such a betrayal.
01:24:39
Speaker
Um, not necessarily on the same level as the last two episodes of game of Thrones, which spoiler alert for anybody who's not gotten all the way through, but the last two just completely ruined the series.
01:24:51
Speaker
Like you don't know anybody who's rewatched it during the quarantine.
01:24:55
Speaker
Like when we were all shut down and nobody was going to work and everybody was stuck at home.
01:24:58
Speaker
Like,
01:24:59
Speaker
I don't know anybody that said, hey, I'm going to rewatch Game of Thrones because the last two episodes completely ruined that whole series for something that everybody was building up and building up and became one of the most iconic pieces of pop culture for that period of time that everybody was talking about.
01:25:16
Speaker
I'm not quite there with the level of betrayal that I feel with the fake Pietro kind of twist on a twist, but I'm not far behind either.
01:25:25
Speaker
It's probably my second worst kind of twist or worst kind of way that the fans were treated.
01:25:34
Speaker
Okay.
01:25:37
Speaker
So we've got through the best.
01:25:38
Speaker
We've got through what we think are the worst.
01:25:43
Speaker
What is your... Rob, I'll let you go right into this one.
01:25:48
Speaker
What's your favorite moment of this show?
01:25:52
Speaker
What was the one moment where you were just like, yep, that's it?
01:26:00
Speaker
That is an excellent question.
01:26:03
Speaker
I think on...
01:26:06
Speaker
Episode four, you know, there's, there's definitely some moments there where we start to kind of put everything together.
01:26:12
Speaker
And that's, I think we're really, you know, we had just got done talking about where three was just, come on.
01:26:19
Speaker
I hope this isn't, I hope this is going to get better, man.
01:26:22
Speaker
There's so many parts of the fourth episode where it takes place completely outside the hex.
01:26:27
Speaker
We don't have anything in that that takes place inside.
01:26:30
Speaker
Um,
01:26:32
Speaker
You know, the scene, the unsnapping happen was definitely a great moment.
01:26:40
Speaker
I mentioned before previously my love for that ship of Theseus scene.
01:26:45
Speaker
That might be my favorite out of all of it.
01:26:49
Speaker
It's right up there for sure.
01:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, for me, definitely seeing the effects of...
01:27:00
Speaker
you know, the snap being undone because again, we hadn't really seen that yet from the MCU.
01:27:10
Speaker
This was something that really showed, wow, what was it like when everybody first came back and it brought back a lot of that weight that that should have had in the MCU that was kind of brushed over.
01:27:23
Speaker
So that was an amazing moment to me.
01:27:26
Speaker
I absolutely love that.
01:27:29
Speaker
Also, too, when we talked about a little bit earlier, but when Wanda appears as the Scarlet Witch for the first time, like full blown, not the little glimpse we get when she touches the Mind Stone.
01:27:41
Speaker
But when she comes full blown into that Scarlet Witch costume, like, holy cow.
01:27:48
Speaker
What a for me, like a geek out moment.
01:27:51
Speaker
But it also helped, and I mentioned it earlier, but I sent you guys a side-by-side photo of this where that costume to me just screams Magneto.
01:28:05
Speaker
There's a lot of comparisons that I drew from that costume to Magneto's, and that was like an off-the-charts moment for me, seeing her in that actual costume.
01:28:15
Speaker
So those are just two parts that I was blown away by.
01:28:19
Speaker
Harrison, what about you?
01:28:22
Speaker
Uh,
01:28:23
Speaker
There was a lot of moments where I was really like blown away.
01:28:26
Speaker
If I had to pick one that would be my favorite, it's the end of episode seven, the beginning of episode eight, where, uh, Catherine Han's character, Agnes reveals herself as Agatha one.
01:28:37
Speaker
Cause I was just applauding myself for guessing it.
01:28:39
Speaker
And there's a little bit of selfish pride as a part of it and being like, I told you Rob, as I'm sitting here on a Friday on my lunch break alone.
01:28:49
Speaker
Just, uh, so that was like really fulfilling.
01:28:52
Speaker
I was wondering if anybody heard you like going, who is Rob?
01:28:55
Speaker
Like what?
01:28:59
Speaker
So that's definitely part of it.
01:29:01
Speaker
But the other reason that I loved it is one.
01:29:03
Speaker
I talked about how much I loved episode eight.
01:29:06
Speaker
And it started off by just like letting Catherine Han just steal the show as Agatha was tons of fun.
01:29:15
Speaker
Letting her steal the show, both in like the Salem, uh,
01:29:19
Speaker
when she was a witch, but also later when she confronts Wanda and kind of explains a little bit more about magic, but she's like, uh, says something about how, like, she's like, my thoughts aren't, uh, available to you toots.
01:29:31
Speaker
So don't go giving yourself a headache.
01:29:32
Speaker
Like I say that to myself in my head when I need to laugh, like imagining Catherine on my thoughts aren't available to you toots.
01:29:40
Speaker
I just, I just love that moment.
01:29:43
Speaker
I wouldn't say, uh, use that with the wife, but,
01:29:48
Speaker
unless you like sleeping on the couch i mean maybe you do yeah yeah then i can lay up and think about the ship of these so maybe if i read clarity oh man so you know one thing too that this show in some of them turned out to be nothing um
01:30:08
Speaker
but they're fun.
01:30:09
Speaker
Also too, one thing that we talked about during these episodes were the Easter eggs and man, there's so many of them throughout here.
01:30:18
Speaker
You have little tiny references that are really for fans where in the one commercial with the grocery store, there's something called Bova milk.
01:30:27
Speaker
And if you know the story of, uh,
01:30:30
Speaker
Scarlet witch and quick silver.
01:30:33
Speaker
There was a midwife named Bova who Rob we've watched X-Men the animated series.
01:30:38
Speaker
There's an episode with Bova the midwife and finding out who the father is of Scarlet witch and quick silver in the comics and the television series.
01:30:51
Speaker
but there's just, there's so many Easter eggs in this show.
Impact on MCU and Character Development
01:30:55
Speaker
So in line with the same thing of like scenes and everything, Rob, any of these Easter eggs that you still maybe have a theory on that we're think we're going to see, or just as a fan, you were like, Oh, that's really cool that they just kind of like sprinkled that in there.
01:31:12
Speaker
You know, there's a couple that jump out.
01:31:14
Speaker
Um, you go back to episode one with the, um,
01:31:18
Speaker
when the hearts are coming over for dinner, the day, and I think I talked about this on the recap of it, but the day in the month that they chose, I want to say it was like August 23rd, I think is what the date was, which is the 23rd day of the eighth month, which is 238.
01:31:35
Speaker
There's an episode, there's an issue of the Avengers issue 238.
01:31:42
Speaker
that focuses on them trying to bring vision back online, which I thought was a really, maybe it's a coincidence, but I don't think that it is.
01:31:51
Speaker
So I kind of liked that nod.
01:31:53
Speaker
I loved the nod to House of M with the wine bottle they were pouring.
01:31:58
Speaker
And another one that really stuck with me was I really liked the Lagos paper towels commercial, you know, for cleaning up messes you didn't mean to make.
01:32:07
Speaker
Like, holy cow.
01:32:09
Speaker
Like if you,
01:32:09
Speaker
knew what that really was like if you if you caught that reference um man that was kind of cool and um i think that's one of the things i missed about the final couple episodes is that we didn't get more of the commercials um we didn't get it in eight or nine um which i thought those were a lot of fun um it caught me by surprise because i don't think we expected that um
01:32:30
Speaker
and uh and when they had the stark toaster in the in the first uh episode and then we got you know those same two actors in in the each commercial for the the next few weeks um i kind of looked forward to those and i really enjoyed them uh it's kind of a neat thing that they tried that um you know it was very creative and i and i liked it a lot awesome harrison what about you man uh i'm gonna go with rob first and say those commercials were awesome like
01:32:57
Speaker
Of all the things that didn't need to, one, even be a thing, but two, to be that good.
01:33:06
Speaker
I remember us theorizing about how they meant all this stuff, and I don't think that they were ever intended to mean anything.
01:33:11
Speaker
I think it was just fun.
01:33:13
Speaker
It was sure as heck fun to theorize about, but they were just fun.
01:33:16
Speaker
They put a commercial on a series that you subscribe to.
01:33:21
Speaker
They put a commercial in it.
01:33:22
Speaker
How infuriating.
01:33:25
Speaker
I'd gladly watch those commercials again.
01:33:28
Speaker
beyond that, I'm just going to say all of the details that they put in episode one, where like I spent hours perusing that, those first two episodes, what are all these details?
01:33:40
Speaker
You know, what can I possibly pull from it?
01:33:43
Speaker
You know, all the M's and all the things alluding to house of M, but my favorite one without a doubt is in the very first episode where, um,
01:33:52
Speaker
Vision walks into the kitchen and Wanda's like floating a plate over to put it away and it smashes on Vision's head and he's like, oh, my wife and flying saucers.
01:34:01
Speaker
And she replies and says, oh, my husband and his indestructible head, which just like makes Endgame even or Infinity War even worse.
01:34:08
Speaker
But it's just like a funny Easter egg that like, OK, you didn't need to make that bad.
01:34:14
Speaker
Right.
01:34:14
Speaker
Like, you know, his head isn't indestructible.
01:34:17
Speaker
It's been crushed twice.
01:34:19
Speaker
Like, like, come on now, folks.
01:34:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:34:24
Speaker
There's just, again, you know, we started this episode guys by, you know, talking about some of the things that, you know, Rob, a couple of things that him and I thought are a little bit more,
01:34:39
Speaker
unforgivable than than Harrison but it just can't be said enough what this show has done for two characters that you know look fans like us um
01:34:52
Speaker
we're not the minority anymore.
01:34:53
Speaker
We're, we're the norm.
01:34:56
Speaker
Rob, we talked about this in the MCU recap where the MCU made it where it's not just like, oh, you like comic books and you like these characters.
01:35:06
Speaker
You're a nerd.
01:35:06
Speaker
Like, no, everybody likes these things.
01:35:11
Speaker
Now it's not uncommon to just walk outside and people are wearing a captain America shirt or a Deadpool shirt or, you know, something like that.
01:35:21
Speaker
this show took two characters, the three of us included, that not a lot of people really cared about.
01:35:28
Speaker
And I just don't think that can be stressed enough how this was able to
01:35:35
Speaker
get them to the status that I feel that they are right now.
01:35:40
Speaker
I don't think anybody can walk away from the show and say that I still don't like Wanda and Vision as characters, or I don't care about them.
01:35:49
Speaker
I just, I can't imagine.
01:35:52
Speaker
there's somebody out there unless that's just you know that's the person that wants to argue about it um kind of like rob with the last jedi he just wants to argue it's not good um there we go all right everybody drink we said it last jedi everyone drink but i just i can't imagine there's somebody who
01:36:10
Speaker
doesn't feel differently about these characters at the end of the show.
01:36:14
Speaker
And it excites me for what we're going to get with these other series, because, you know, we have Falcon and the winter soldier coming out, which I think people like those two characters right off the bat.
01:36:27
Speaker
We know people love Loki.
01:36:29
Speaker
You know, what will they do with she Hulk?
01:36:31
Speaker
How are they going to work blade moon night?
01:36:35
Speaker
This is such an opportunity to give characters that, uh,
01:36:39
Speaker
don't have a lot of mainstream attention, the spotlight that they deserve because they have some really good comic books and storylines.
01:36:48
Speaker
And if they could do this with two characters like this, I can't wait to see what they do with characters that are already liked, like a Loki.
01:36:57
Speaker
And if they can take him even further than the fan base that he has.
01:37:01
Speaker
So Harrison, I'll just let you piggyback off that and, uh,
01:37:06
Speaker
kind of recap what the show was able to do with wanda and vision of course i gotta add before i do i still want to put it down that i was the first person to suggest that she hulk should be a crime drama about all the people dealing with the chaos of the snap cost because that would be hilarious i remember uh rob generating that idea in my head and i just want to put it firmly and pridefully that i think that'd be a great idea i'm probably wrong but whatever
01:37:32
Speaker
So what what the show is able to do was set the bar for what Disney Plus and the MCU means.
01:37:39
Speaker
Like, I remember when they announced WandaVision and all these other shows and how they were stressing like these are going to be connected to the rest of the shows.
01:37:47
Speaker
And I wasn't sure if I was going to subscribe to Disney Plus yet.
01:37:50
Speaker
Like it was before it was really even a thing.
01:37:52
Speaker
I was like, you know what?
01:37:54
Speaker
If I miss them, I'll probably just read like a recap on you or listen to a recap on YouTube before the next movie comes out.
01:38:00
Speaker
Like I had, I really was like, that's not a big deal.
01:38:02
Speaker
But I'm not missing a single one of these because they're good.
01:38:06
Speaker
And they've set the bar really hard, really high and really excited me that, okay, these aren't just some stupid thing that they're using to just, no, here's all these dumb things that we're making you watch.
01:38:17
Speaker
So you pay for a Disney plus subscription.
01:38:19
Speaker
So you can make sense of the next movie.
01:38:21
Speaker
Like,
01:38:22
Speaker
If you're going to make them connected, make it worthwhile.
01:38:25
Speaker
And they really did.
01:38:26
Speaker
And they're not just in like the worthwhile for entertainment, but worthwhile for the characters and also for what it means going forward.
01:38:32
Speaker
Like the character of Wanda is someone I care about now, but also the character of Scarlet, which is a thing both in like name existing in the MCU, but also in threat level.
01:38:43
Speaker
So yeah, it's, it's exciting what it means for the rest of the MCU.
01:38:46
Speaker
And I'm going to take them much more seriously and,
01:38:49
Speaker
But also in the weird year and a half that we didn't have MC... Almost two years that we haven't had MCU content that kind of thrives off of controlling the zeitgeist.
01:39:01
Speaker
It was refreshing to be excited about the MCU again.
01:39:03
Speaker
Because as I've had so much time to enjoy other films, I kind of just like...
01:39:08
Speaker
cared less and less about the mcu but now i'm like i can't wait like when's the next one and uh it's exciting to be hyped up when that marvel studios logo comes on again you know whether you claim these are amusement parks or not i don't really care because i'm having the time of my life so if it's an amusement park strap me in for 10 laps i'm ready to go yeah rob uh same platform for you
01:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I kind of want to go one step further than just what does this mean for Marvel and Disney+.
01:39:41
Speaker
Let's just kind of look at the shows we've gotten on Disney+, and go ahead and throw Mandalorian in there, too.
01:39:48
Speaker
they've had the opportunity to kind of correct some things that maybe people didn't enjoy with some of the films.
01:39:56
Speaker
You know, there was a little bit of retconning here, a little bit of retconning there in both this show and a little bit in the Mandalorian, certainly just something as simple as spoiler alert, bringing Boba Fett back instead of having him killed off in the Sarlacc pit, you know, things like that.
01:40:14
Speaker
It really seems like we've got the opportunity to do things emotionally that
01:40:18
Speaker
with on television that Disney is giving us with their their live action shows of their major, major properties that they own, that it just, you know, Harrison's Jack Jack and Spoonfed.
01:40:33
Speaker
I'm Grogu just shoving the frog lady's eggs in my mouth.
01:40:35
Speaker
Like, give me more Disney.
01:40:36
Speaker
Just give me more.
01:40:37
Speaker
I'm just mowing these things down as fast as you can give them to me.
01:40:40
Speaker
I don't care what the project is.
01:40:41
Speaker
You can pick the most obscure.
01:40:43
Speaker
Give me squirrel girl.
01:40:44
Speaker
I will watch a squirrel girl episode.
01:40:47
Speaker
If, if Disney says that's the next show I'm in, I'm just 100% in give me the most obscure character.
01:40:54
Speaker
I don't even care.
01:40:55
Speaker
It's going to be epic.
01:40:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:40:59
Speaker
I think they, you know, once again, they've just earned trust that they're going to do.
01:41:06
Speaker
Something good with these.
01:41:07
Speaker
And Harrison, you pinpointed that where it could have been very easy when they stated, oh, you're going to need to watch these shows because WandaVision is going to lead into Doctor Strange.
01:41:20
Speaker
It could have very easily been a...
01:41:23
Speaker
Well, you need to pay for Disney plus.
01:41:25
Speaker
Otherwise you're not going to, you know, know what's going on, but we're not going to put a ton of effort into these shows.
01:41:32
Speaker
You know, obviously I don't think they'd make them terrible.
01:41:34
Speaker
Like the Eternals TV show, but,
01:41:39
Speaker
But they certainly have spared no expense with this, which is refreshing because of how many of these are going to do.
01:41:47
Speaker
So if this is what the bar is, it's really interesting to watch.
01:41:56
Speaker
But I also wonder, Harrison, I'll pose this question to you first.
01:42:01
Speaker
do you think that because of how much content we'll get and how these shows will be able to expand these characters, do you think somewhere down the line, it might hurt some of the movies because they don't have as much time?
01:42:14
Speaker
Or do you think because they're going to be so interconnected that it's literally almost just an extension of that?
01:42:20
Speaker
So it'll feel like things that happened in, let's say like Dr. Strange two in the multiverse are just an extension of,
01:42:28
Speaker
like they've talked about of one division.
01:42:30
Speaker
So it will feel connected and not just like, ah, there could have been more that they did with this.
01:42:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:42:39
Speaker
Great question, by the way.
01:42:40
Speaker
Like, Holy smokes.
01:42:41
Speaker
Let me, I haven't said this enough to you, Matt.
01:42:43
Speaker
And let me say this, Rob and I,
01:42:46
Speaker
You two, we bring this chaotic energy to these episodes, and somehow you steer us straight every time.
01:42:53
Speaker
And the question you ask, I'm always impressed with, and I just got to compliment your hosting abilities of these episodes, because I'm pretty sure I've tried to tip the canoe a few times, and you helped us stay afloat.
01:43:06
Speaker
So thank you, because that was a great question.
01:43:08
Speaker
But now that I get to the question, I think that it's definitely going to be a good...
01:43:16
Speaker
We've said this so many times, it's almost pathetic how much we say this.
01:43:21
Speaker
Neither of us would have cared about Wanda or Vision without this series.
01:43:25
Speaker
And...
01:43:27
Speaker
I'm really grateful for the series because now the next time Wanda or Vision shows up in a project of the MCU, I'm way more intrigued.
01:43:34
Speaker
So I think that it's going to be kind of similar.
01:43:36
Speaker
I think we talked about kind of this idea before is similar to comics where the series on MCU are on.
01:43:42
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
01:43:43
Speaker
In Disney Plus are going to be like the the comics for the individual characters.
01:43:47
Speaker
And then the movies are going to be the big crossover events.
01:43:50
Speaker
I don't think it's going to be quite that simple.
01:43:52
Speaker
I think we're still going to get a mix between everything.
01:43:55
Speaker
But I think that it's going to allow for really rich storytelling both in the movies and out.
01:44:00
Speaker
I think that there's still specific formats and specific things that are better served in a movie like an origin story.
01:44:06
Speaker
Like I'm assuming we're going to get with Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings.
01:44:10
Speaker
Like, I love a good origin story.
01:44:13
Speaker
I'm all for it.
01:44:14
Speaker
I know some people don't like them, but I'm all for them.
01:44:16
Speaker
So, like, a good origin story movie, I'm all there.
01:44:19
Speaker
And if you drag that out in a series, especially if I had to wait every week, I would be so irritated.
01:44:23
Speaker
So, just like my personal patience, I'm excited that we're still getting both.
01:44:28
Speaker
But also to say, like, oh, we got the origin of Monica Rambeau as Spectrum without her standalone movie.
01:44:34
Speaker
And now the next time she shows up in a project, I'm super excited.
Disney+ and Future Storytelling Potential
01:44:37
Speaker
So...
01:44:38
Speaker
uh i didn't really answer your question except for chan is just like smeared it all around and said i think it's gonna be good so uh uh to to try and put a definition to your question uh i think that that uh the series definitely has a strength in the ability to develop characters a lot stronger than a movie but i think that there's still some things that the movies are gonna have um
01:45:04
Speaker
a better chance at.
01:45:05
Speaker
And I'm just excited for both for them to work together.
01:45:08
Speaker
Cause if anything is true about WandaVision is that it's going to work really well in the rest of the MCU, including black widow, whenever that happens.
01:45:17
Speaker
So yeah, I'm just excited for everything to mesh together and how we'll have the benefits of both.
01:45:25
Speaker
Yeah, they just really quickly, Rob, before I let you answer the same thing, they were just adamant that Black Widow will come out May 7th.
01:45:34
Speaker
There was just an article about that, that, nope, May 7th, it's coming out.
01:45:40
Speaker
It'll be in theaters, and you don't need to ask that question anymore.
01:45:45
Speaker
So that'll be interesting to see.
01:45:48
Speaker
Okay.
01:45:48
Speaker
what happens there.
01:45:50
Speaker
But Rob, same question.
01:45:51
Speaker
Do you have any, any worry that some of the movies might get lost in the shuffle because they're just simply not going to have as much time?
01:46:00
Speaker
Or do you think the way that it seems it's going to be so interconnected, it's just going to flow naturally?
01:46:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:46:08
Speaker
I think with your origin stories primarily happening in the films and then those relationships building up across multiple films, you know, it,
01:46:17
Speaker
we didn't get a TV show for Tony Stark of any sort, but when he snaps his fingers at the end of end game and, and starts to die, um, you know, tears streaming down my face, you know, like when they play his, his kind of, uh, his last message and they have the funeral for him.
01:46:41
Speaker
You don't need a TV show for that.
01:46:42
Speaker
You know, you can tell the stories you want to tell.
01:46:44
Speaker
I think if I do have a concern, and this has been one of my concerns all along, you know, were we going to get quality on TV?
01:46:55
Speaker
Or were we going to just kind of get something that, okay, guys, if you want this, almost like DLC in video games, like if you want all of this, you have to pay this much a month in order to have this.
01:47:05
Speaker
And if you want all the movies to make sense, you need to watch all this stuff too, which means you have to pay us more money.
01:47:11
Speaker
And I was in the back of my mind a little concerned that we might have that.
01:47:15
Speaker
And I still think there's definitely fans that don't have their sisters, husbands, bosses, cousins, friends, Disney Plus login that they're going to use to watch this.
01:47:26
Speaker
And that's okay.
01:47:29
Speaker
My concern is will there be...
01:47:31
Speaker
Will there be casual movie goers who enjoy these films?
01:47:33
Speaker
Maybe they've seen all of them.
01:47:35
Speaker
Maybe they haven't, um, that won't be as excited or be first in line necessarily like they normally would have been to watch the next film because they didn't see the show.
01:47:43
Speaker
They haven't had time.
01:47:45
Speaker
Um,
01:47:46
Speaker
You know, watching nine weeks of a show is certainly more of an investment than, you know, when a major tentpole film comes out and you make time to go see it.
01:47:56
Speaker
It's easy to get behind on TV.
01:47:58
Speaker
You know, I've got shows that I'm years behind on.
01:48:02
Speaker
Will this dissuade people from engaging in Doctor Strange 2 if they haven't seen this yet?
01:48:09
Speaker
And I hope that doesn't happen.
01:48:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good point.
01:48:17
Speaker
I got to jump in here super quick and say first, Rob, I'm sorry to interrupt you when you were talking about Tony Stark.
01:48:22
Speaker
I was so morbid.
01:48:23
Speaker
You just said it in such a deadpan way.
01:48:25
Speaker
I couldn't but laugh.
01:48:26
Speaker
He's dead.
01:48:29
Speaker
I also...
01:48:32
Speaker
I have to ask you, Matt, because yes, or the other day, well, time is weird.
01:48:36
Speaker
Whatever day we were talking, Rob was saying how you did the Justice League episode that I'm currently listening to that you guys did without any notes, which is impressive.
01:48:44
Speaker
So I have to ask, are you doing this episode without notes?
01:48:46
Speaker
Did you ask me that question off the cuff?
01:48:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not going to lie.
01:48:54
Speaker
I actually asked you that question while buying something on Amazon.
01:49:00
Speaker
This is unfair.
01:49:02
Speaker
Matt was using his astral form to think of the question while he was hosting the show.
01:49:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:10
Speaker
When it comes to something like this, usually I...
01:49:15
Speaker
I don't know.
01:49:15
Speaker
This stuff has just always been a part of my life.
01:49:18
Speaker
So it's, it's so easy for me to think about what I want to say and what I want to talk about.
01:49:24
Speaker
Now, you know, you asked me, was I supposed to pick you up at five 30 at the airport?
01:49:30
Speaker
Well, yeah,
01:49:31
Speaker
you probably know I didn't remember cause you took a bus to get here.
01:49:34
Speaker
So I'm going to call Rob for that, I guess.
01:49:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:38
Speaker
That's a good idea.
01:49:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:39
Speaker
Cause I'm going to have it in my phone and I'm going to have multiple reminders telling me to leave.
01:49:44
Speaker
Um, but you know, we've talked about the nature of fandom a little bit and, uh, Matt, even before you started your show, um,
01:49:50
Speaker
There, there was an offline version of Matt goes to the movies and it was pretty much every conversation you and I ever had for the most part was, was at some point kind of a version of this
Final Ratings and Future Excitement
01:50:01
Speaker
show.
01:50:01
Speaker
And, um,
01:50:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's great that there is something like this available.
01:50:06
Speaker
I mean, it's like we talked about.
01:50:09
Speaker
This is kind of the show that's in pop culture right now.
01:50:12
Speaker
This is the one everyone's talking about.
01:50:14
Speaker
And it's about a TV show based on a series of films based on comic books that in the 80s and even earlier than that were for kids.
01:50:25
Speaker
And you were a dork if you were into them.
01:50:27
Speaker
And almost one thing.
01:50:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:50:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:50:30
Speaker
And had to sell off their, their most popular characters, film rights just to stay afloat.
01:50:38
Speaker
And we talked about this before.
01:50:39
Speaker
I mean, the, the think what Sony could have bought the entire assortment of characters for is, is laughable.
01:50:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:50:47
Speaker
Rob, was it like 25 million?
01:50:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:50:51
Speaker
It was like, it was like half of what Iron Man brought in at the box office, like half of that.
01:50:58
Speaker
That's ridiculous.
01:50:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:51:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:51:00
Speaker
Let alone the, I think end game ended up making all of the money.
01:51:03
Speaker
So, you know, they just have a printing machine for money now.
01:51:08
Speaker
Exactly.
01:51:08
Speaker
The treasure just brought it and said, here, you guys are going to need this.
01:51:11
Speaker
It'll make it easier.
01:51:13
Speaker
So, you know, it's WandaVision's over.
01:51:17
Speaker
Um,
01:51:20
Speaker
Bittersweet here, but we'll talk about a couple of things that are still coming in the pipeline from the three of us, which I'm excited about.
01:51:27
Speaker
But there's two ratings that we have to do.
01:51:32
Speaker
One is for this episode alone, and the other one's going to be for what we think of the show as a whole.
01:51:39
Speaker
So I'll go first with just my rating for the episode.
01:51:44
Speaker
I give this one...
01:51:46
Speaker
four out of five because the things i mentioned earlier and i'm not going to harp on them just the quicksilver reveal the well or lack thereof the decision not to use james spader as the voice of ultron for white vision in rob i'll echo what you said about hayward just kind of especially in this episode too it's
01:52:13
Speaker
Some of his decisions were a little off to me.
01:52:16
Speaker
Again, it's still a solid episode, but this one for me is a four out of five.
01:52:22
Speaker
Rob, I'll let you go next.
01:52:24
Speaker
This one should have been a five.
01:52:26
Speaker
Should have been.
01:52:28
Speaker
But the decision to make currently Quicksilver not actually anything, it not only...
01:52:38
Speaker
makes this episode less, less to me.
01:52:40
Speaker
It actually makes the whole series less to me as much as I enjoyed it overall.
01:52:43
Speaker
Um, and again, like you had mentioned the, the whole point of sword and Hayward, um, you know, it just, he turned into a cartoon villain very quickly, um, in this final episode for, for no real reason.
01:52:56
Speaker
Um, I would have, I, I really would have loved to give this five.
01:53:00
Speaker
Um, but those, those things leave it as a four for me.
01:53:06
Speaker
Harrison, what are your thoughts?
01:53:09
Speaker
Yeah, for the episode, I'll give it a four and a half out of five for all the reasons that you guys said, except for the fact that I didn't have any complaints until after the episode.
01:53:18
Speaker
During the thing, I was like, this is the best thing ever.
01:53:21
Speaker
And then it wasn't until I stopped being spoon-fed as Jack-Jack that I was like, okay, maybe not.
01:53:26
Speaker
So four and a half for having both sides strong enough, particularly the spoon-feeding enjoyment.
01:53:33
Speaker
to not even notice the complaints until afterwards.
01:53:35
Speaker
So four and a half.
01:53:37
Speaker
I will say, and Rob, I don't know if you did, but this Quicksilver reveal, it did last longer than four hours.
01:53:45
Speaker
So I believe we're supposed to call a doctor.
01:53:48
Speaker
But that's a bad, that's, that's a terrible dad joke for listeners out there.
01:53:56
Speaker
What let's talk about the overall episode.
01:54:01
Speaker
Well, I should say series overall series and Harrison, you go first.
01:54:05
Speaker
What, what's your thoughts, man?
01:54:08
Speaker
What, what does this series rate for you?
01:54:13
Speaker
It's an easy, easy,
01:54:15
Speaker
Excuse me.
01:54:15
Speaker
It's an easy five for me.
01:54:17
Speaker
I've talked about this before.
01:54:18
Speaker
After episode eight, I was on board that I don't care what happens.
01:54:23
Speaker
I care about Wanda and the show's ability to make me care about Wanda in such a deep way is a five.
01:54:31
Speaker
for that reason alone uh yeah there's flaws yeah the season or it's a series not season i gotta stop saying that the series ended a little bit dry uh there were some areas where there were some serious missteps but the series as a whole blew me away week by week and i had no idea that i wanted it this badly like i i had no care for wandavision it was kind of like oh it came out
01:54:54
Speaker
Here's the first two episodes.
01:54:56
Speaker
I guess I'm kind of excited because it's something new.
01:54:59
Speaker
But then it got to the point where it's like, oh, my gosh, it's Tuesday and I need it to be Friday already.
01:55:04
Speaker
So, yeah, the series really sucked me in.
01:55:07
Speaker
And I deeply care about Wanda and Vision, and I did not before.
01:55:10
Speaker
So five out of five.
01:55:13
Speaker
Awesome.
01:55:14
Speaker
Rob series for you, where would this rank?
01:55:18
Speaker
So episode nine should have been a five for me.
01:55:21
Speaker
I couldn't because of a couple of things.
01:55:23
Speaker
This series as a whole probably should have been a five.
01:55:26
Speaker
And if I will say this and maybe I'm,
01:55:30
Speaker
Maybe I'm still just too hung up on it, but the red herring of Pietro, you know, he, he shows up, you know, and at the end of episode five, it's this major cliffhanger.
01:55:42
Speaker
We kind of deal with it the next week.
01:55:44
Speaker
We deal with it the week after we continue to deal with it, trying to wonder what this is going to mean, how this is all going to tie together.
01:55:49
Speaker
This is a major subplot of the entire series and it meant nothing.
01:55:54
Speaker
That,
01:55:57
Speaker
is the, probably the biggest thing.
01:55:58
Speaker
Cause I can overlook, I mean, I've spent time kind of nitpicking this nitpicking that.
01:56:02
Speaker
Um, I can overlook all of that and I could have given this a five, uh, as a whole series, um, because of how much I enjoyed it.
01:56:09
Speaker
Um, but it's a four and a half for me, if only because I just felt, I just feel really betrayed by the fake out on Pietro.
01:56:19
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with Rob.
01:56:23
Speaker
This is a four and a half out of five for me.
01:56:25
Speaker
And again, to me, that's a good problem to have because I did not think this would be this...
01:56:34
Speaker
This good.
01:56:35
Speaker
So the, you know, I, in no way, shape or form want to say that this is a bad review because this show completely exceeded my expectations.
01:56:46
Speaker
And, you know, to close this episode out here,
01:56:51
Speaker
We agreed, guys, that we're going to do Falcon and the Winter Soldier together.
01:56:56
Speaker
So I'm super excited about that because this has been a lot of fun.
01:57:01
Speaker
So before we close out, I do want to say thank you, Rob.
01:57:06
Speaker
Thank you, Harrison.
01:57:07
Speaker
This has been awesome to do this show.
01:57:10
Speaker
I really appreciate you guys being on here.
01:57:13
Speaker
To the listeners, I know...
01:57:15
Speaker
you know, Rob and I talk about this and, you know, Harrison runs the basement binge, which again, I just can't plug that show enough.
01:57:21
Speaker
If you haven't crossed over and listened to any of his episodes, please do that.
01:57:25
Speaker
All his show notes are in the episode notes at the bottom of this.
01:57:29
Speaker
The show's great.
01:57:30
Speaker
It was an inspiration for this show.
01:57:32
Speaker
So I really look forward to filming the Falcon and the winter soldier and, um,
01:57:40
Speaker
Until next time, we're going to see you on these next episodes.
01:57:44
Speaker
So thanks, everybody.