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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: The Secret Of The Oooze
23 Plays6 days ago
EMAIL: MGTTMPODCAST@GMAIL.COM
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The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mark Caso, Michelan Sisti, Leif Tilden, Kenn Troum) again battle their archenemy, the rogue ninja Shredder (Francois Chau). Shredder attempts revenge by obtaining the same radioactive ooze that created the Turtles and unleashing two new monstrous mutants: Tokka, an oversized snapping turtle, and Rahzar, a fearsome wolf-like creature. When Shredder plans to use the remaining ooze on himself, the Turtles must harness their ninja fighting skills to stop him.
Release date: March 22, 1991 (USA)
Director: Michael Pressman
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Reflection on TMNT 1990
00:00:00
Matthew Allison
Welcome back, everyone. It is Friday night. We are here at Matt Goes to the Movies talking about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2, The Secret of the Ooze.
00:00:11
Matthew Allison
Last week, we went back and rewatched a childhood favorite, the original live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie that came out in 1990. That was like... that was like so good to go back to Such a great movie. Really enjoyed it. Thought it was very well done.
Critique of TMNT 2's Filmmaking
00:00:32
Matthew Allison
um And with the success of that movie, this was greenlit immediately. it came out a year later. um And unfortunately for me, this does not hold up as well as the original.
00:00:46
Matthew Allison
um Not by a long... like Not even close in some cases. there's There's some fun to be had here. ah But... Watching it as an ah adult and just kind of looking at things from a filmmaking perspective, there's a lot of gaps. There's a lot of errors here.
00:01:05
Matthew Allison
um Rob, how did you feel coming back to this?
Nostalgia vs. Reality of Sequels
00:01:10
Rob
So it was a lot of fun um watching the first one again. i kind of remember, and I think we talked about this when we started, that the first one is probably the better movie. The second one maybe is a little more fun.
00:01:24
Rob
and And re-watching it this time, I can definitely confirm the first one is a much better movie, ah much better executed overall. This one has its moments for sure.
00:01:36
Rob
ah Certainly Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go is permanently burned into the brains of of everybody who grew up in the 80s into the 90s. um That's always going to hold a special place in all of our hearts, as it were.
00:01:49
Rob
But and while while there are parts of this that are fun, holy cow, does the nostalgia shield my memories from the parts of this that actually really don't work that well. There are definitely...
00:02:04
Rob
whole sections of this movie that do not hold up. um Again, it's still, when you boil it down to the premise of it's, it's the, it's the four turtles kind of screwing around, kind of having a little bit of fun while they're saving the day.
00:02:18
Rob
Like those parts still work. And, and really it kind of, it kind of shows like when you think about how much bad Ninja Turtles content is out there, but yet it's still somehow good enough to be consumed.
00:02:32
Rob
I think it just shows you how much we love these characters that even in kind of a bad movie, there's still parts of it that are fun.
00:02:42
Matthew Allison
Yeah, you know, ah there is some fun to be had here.
Continuity Issues in TMNT 2
00:02:46
Matthew Allison
Filmmaking-wise, though, there's just some some major errors in this film, I feel. And, you know, one of them is... I'm a little confused because this movie...
00:03:01
Matthew Allison
is number one, ah Rob, correct me if I'm wrong, and listeners, throw in the comments if if I'm way off here based on ah you know the research that I did, but this basically is kind of like right after the first one.
00:03:16
Matthew Allison
It's not like Shredder's been gone for a year or six months or, you know, recovering from his death. Um, and he jumped in the Lazarus pit. Um, this immediately picks up right after the first one.
00:03:28
Rob
yeah
00:03:32
Matthew Allison
And it doesn't even seem to follow its own continuity at times. Number one, um, Where did April get an apartment? Like, i'm I'm a little confused by that, because I thought her building burned down, um unless the station, sure, gave her, like, a house to
Filmmaking Flaws & Audience Perception
00:03:54
Matthew Allison
live in.
00:03:54
Matthew Allison
Yeah.
00:03:55
Rob
She moved in pretty quick.
00:03:57
Matthew Allison
Right? Like, she's in Number two, um they make mention that, like, oh, like, the Foot was arrested. or But it seems like there's not a lot of the Foot Clan left until they need them to be a lot of the Foot Clan in certain scenes where...
00:04:20
Matthew Allison
They do nothing. And the first movie I thought did a good job of disguising some of this, but man, this movie, the camera just loves to show you people standing around doing jack shit, except for moving their arms.
00:04:26
Rob
Yes.
00:04:37
Matthew Allison
And, even Even the turtles in the one scene where they go to grab the ooze, Michelangelo, you can see him, is just standing there doing like the same motion repeatedly.
00:04:52
Matthew Allison
Even the guys in the back of the Foot Clan are just standing there like waving batons around. it Some of these scenes are a mess, and watching it as an adult, I just i question why you would film that.
00:05:09
Rob
there's some very bad decisions that are made here that are made. um the the decisions are so poor and the execution of them. So poor, it's almost like contempt for the audience where it's just like, eh, it's just a bunch of dumb
Shredder's Implausible Return
00:05:22
Rob
kids watching this. We don't actually have to try to make this good.
00:05:25
Rob
And it's hard not to see that at different points. Like, Even just like Shredder coming back. you're and And you're right. I do believe this is intended to be picked up right at the end of the first movie.
00:05:39
Rob
um Why is it? Why are his bones not dust? Like, is that little purple shirt he was wearing? Is that is that like vibranium? Like, what is that? Like, how does he comes out of that with like, we see his helmet get squished like we see it.
00:05:55
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:05:55
Rob
He pops out and he's got a few cuts on his face and that's all the more he's got to show for it.
00:06:00
Matthew Allison
Yeah, I mean, I will say he looks great. Like, his new outfit's kind of badass with, like... the garbage helmet, like where he found a purple shirt.
00:06:10
Matthew Allison
He just had one hanging in his closet, but like, I like his new, yeah, I like his new look.
00:06:13
Rob
Well, that one was at the dry cleaner, so he just went picked it up.
00:06:17
Matthew Allison
He somehow managed to keep the same Cape though. I never noticed that until today. Um, when I rewatched this, he still has the same Cape somehow, but you know, he didn't have it in the final fight in the first one.
00:06:23
Rob
Yes!
00:06:30
Matthew Allison
So that was left behind. yeah, But yeah, the, you know, the foot clan, i don't know. I just, I don't know what this movie is supposed to be sometimes. And I don't think the movie does either.
Plot Inconsistencies & The Ooze
00:06:44
Matthew Allison
um I know there was backlash because parents thought the first movie was a little too violent. So it's definitely toned down. um Their weapons are pretty much holstered for 95% of the movie, but yeah,
00:06:58
Matthew Allison
but Yeah, there's just there's things about this that I don't understand what they're trying to go with. um Even with the ooze. Like, Rob, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I just watched this thing, man.
00:07:14
Matthew Allison
ah Professor Jordan Perry, who I actually like. I like this guy in this movie. I think he's, you know, whatever. um
00:07:22
Rob
Yeah.
00:07:24
Matthew Allison
It's not a great role, but, like, what he's got, like, so a doofus charm to him. I kind of, I like this character. Doesn't he literally grab the container of ooze and go, well, you're the last one.
00:07:38
Matthew Allison
Then Tatsu grabs it. They use it to make Toka and Rezar, who are clearly supposed to be Bebop and Rocksteady. um
00:07:46
Rob
Yeah. Why did we not just get bebop and rock steady? I never understood that about this.
00:07:51
Matthew Allison
Because they said the director said they were dumb.
00:07:55
Rob
Oh, well, I mean, I can understand that. Yes, he definitely made a better decision there.
00:07:59
Matthew Allison
ah um But then, how does Shredder have another whole canister of ooze? i I don't...
00:08:06
Rob
A full one.
00:08:07
Matthew Allison
What did he use to make Toka and Rezar? I don't...
00:08:14
Rob
Yeah, there's a lot of.
00:08:14
Matthew Allison
I don't get it
00:08:16
Rob
So I have a couple of thoughts on just ooze related stuff um going back just a little bit further. So they do the news story where TGRI is talking about, like, you know, their cleanup process and everything.
00:08:28
Rob
And Shredder is like meditating or not Shredder. Splinter is meditating on the roof while that story is on the air. And then he calls them up there and he just pulls the broken canister out of his robe.
00:08:39
Rob
has that Does he literally just walk around with that all the time? Like, I've always wondered this, even as a kid. Like, the story was airing literally right then, and he just kind of, like, pulls it out of there. Like, does he just always keep that around? Is it kind of like in Animaniacs, where, like, everything you ever need is just right behind your back, and it's like this magic closet you can pull anything out of that you need?
00:08:59
Rob
I just...
00:08:59
Matthew Allison
He might have keistered it.
00:08:59
Rob
I always thought that part was weird. He kept it in his prison wallet.
00:09:02
Matthew Allison
Like, who knows? Like, yeah, like, you know, who knows?
00:09:03
Rob
Yeah, that's that's where he had it. and The other...
00:09:06
Matthew Allison
But go ahead. Go ahead.
00:09:08
Rob
was going to the other thing that i like I just couldn't help but figure out, dude's memory of an inventory error from 15 years ago is remarkably good. Like, oh yeah, there was one canister we never accounted for. Like, it was 15 years ago and he remembered an inventory error from that long ago with a company that size. Like, get the hell out of here.
00:09:32
Matthew Allison
I guess too, like what, and maybe I missed this, but what is the point for them cleaning it up now? Like, I don't understand, you know, oh, we buried all the canisters. ah Were they saying that now they're just seeing the results of the canisters being buried and it's content? Like, where did the contamination come from? What did, like, it just seems like an odd thing McGuffin that TGRI is there cleaning up waste that again, maybe I missed something, but doesn't seem to actually really have any kind of effect.
Tone Shift to Kid-Friendly
00:10:14
Matthew Allison
And I'm sorry, in 15 years, like those dandelions just grew. Like, I don't actually know what's going on.
00:10:21
Rob
Yeah, I think this is one of those things where, like, remember Captain Planet was really big around this time, I think. I think it was probably one of those things where it's like, oh, yeah, they're doing a good environmental thing. And we were just supposed to kind of go with it, I think.
00:10:34
Matthew Allison
Yeah, like, it's like it could have been... um Like, it could have been part of the movie where, like, the turtles get discovered. or so You know, when something happens that TJRI now has to actually go back to try and clean this up.
00:10:53
Matthew Allison
And i know he mentions it later in the movie um where he's like, oh, they're trying you know probably trying to dispose of records and things like that when a mishap occurs. Like, I get it. But again, just like that original involvement and why they're there.
00:11:10
Matthew Allison
Um, a little odd. I just don't know where that comes from. I will say though, i do like the fact that, you know, the the banter's back. I think the four brothers are very good together. Again, ah the relationship with splinter, I think is very good.
00:11:28
Matthew Allison
Um, you know, I don't know why... i couldn't find anything as to why Casey Jones is not in this movie. um Whether it's contract, you know, they wanted... You know, because it's a kid's movie and they wanted maybe somebody who... You know, Kino that could be like, oh, like, he takes karate. I could take karate.
00:11:50
Matthew Allison
I'm not saying that I don't like him, but... ah Like, he's not a replacement for Casey Jones. You know, I just... There are some, like we've talked about, there's some definite decisions in this movie where you could tell, you know, they made it more kid-friendly. um And I think it actually, i think it hurts this movie more so than the serious tone of the first one where that surprisingly helped it.
00:12:21
Rob
And it made some of the comedic aspects of the first movie work that much better because it actually felt grounded in some kind of reality. Whereas like with this one, one of the first notes I wrote down was just that the opening fight scene was still super fun.
00:12:37
Rob
And i and i I wrote down as well, my nostalgia may be preventing me from seeing some of the flaws in this part. Still great comedy combat. The turtles still suck at not being seen.
00:12:48
Rob
I feel like if I were having just rewatched this a few days ago, if I were to watch this again, now already knowing how I feel about it in 2025, comparing to how I felt about it, you know, the last time I watched this movie, which is probably literally could have been in the late nineties or early two thousands for all I remember.
00:12:48
Matthew Allison
Mm-hmm.
00:13:05
Rob
ah i I probably would have disliked this opening scene.
Super Shredder's Anticlimactic Conclusion
00:13:09
Rob
And it, I think with, the decision to go with, okay, we're going to make Kino kind of one of their other, you know, human ah allies as opposed to Casey Jones.
00:13:21
Rob
You know, he he definitely is a more lighthearted character than than Casey, although Casey's flexible enough as a character, the way he's been written in different times where he can carry some of the the lightness and some of the humor. In fact, he did plenty in the in the first film.
00:13:35
Rob
I guess just to try to make it a look, I was actually talking about this with my brother, Eric, and he kind of compared this to some of the campiness we get in Batman and Robin, which I sort of see where he's coming from. But at the same time, like I think that's goofy for the sake of being goofy. And this is like goofy, but doesn't always work as well at times. um Does that does that kind of make sense? Am I explaining that well?
00:14:03
Matthew Allison
I would say, like, I get what you're saying. I would say for a comparison, i would say this is more Batman Forever, where it didn't completely jump the shark.
00:14:11
Rob
Yeah.
00:14:13
Matthew Allison
um And then they just went, oh, well, people like some of the lighthearted tone of Batman Forever and the goofiness. Let's just ramp it up um to 100%.
00:14:28
Matthew Allison
And I don't think this movie quite goes to that level.
00:14:28
Rob
Yeah.
00:14:32
Matthew Allison
um But again, like, i just, you know, you don't, and not that the battle was long in the first movie, but you don't even get a fight with Shredder.
00:14:43
Matthew Allison
And the, like, you know, again, Keno kicks the canister out of his hand and then he's crushed by debris. you You don't even get a fight with Shredder here. Right.
00:14:55
Rob
Or super, I mean, like, especially super shredder. So I, I'm going to go ahead and get into this part right now.
00:14:57
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:14:59
Rob
I have questions. Um, why does the ooze mutate his metal spikes and helmet too? I didn't understand that. I never understood that as a kid. I still don't understand it today.
00:15:09
Rob
ah But apparently the ooze also makes his helmet get bigger and the spikes get spikier because reasons. um
00:15:15
Matthew Allison
what
00:15:16
Rob
So we're watching this.
00:15:16
Matthew Allison
Because it has dangerous, mutinogenic properties.
00:15:20
Rob
Yes, that works on steel.
00:15:21
Matthew Allison
the and
00:15:23
Rob
um Everybody knows that.
00:15:23
Matthew Allison
And spikes are dangerous.
00:15:25
Rob
Exactly. Makes perfect sense. So we're watching this and I kind of forgot, like, I do remember like as a kid, like him falling into the water, but like, I kind of forgot how the ending worked. And for those of you who are listening to this and have not seen this in a while, I'll describe what happens. So ah Shredder dumps all the use on himself, drinks it, whatever he does.
00:15:44
Rob
He mutates into super shredder and he's scary looking. I mean, it's just like, oh, wow. How are our heroes going to get through this? And then all of a sudden he just starts punching the peers down like the the posts holding up the dock.
00:15:58
Rob
He just starts like slamming them, trying to, I don't know, drop debris on the turtles instead of like go super shredder on them and go hand to hand combat and mess them up like that could have been really compelling and cool.
00:16:11
Rob
And as he's just knocking down all of the supports of this pier, he just brings everything down on top of himself and then just drowns and dies that way. And I was I was like, oh, my God, this was literally terrible.
00:16:26
Rob
This was absolutely terrible. And I wrote down this is a direct quote from my son, Wes, who was watching this with me. Well, that was anticlimactic. And he's 12, which is exactly how old I would have been when this movie came out, I think.
00:16:39
Rob
And somehow I gave it a pass. But i don't know. Kids these days are just smarter or just have better expectations because he was like honestly pissed at how bad the ending was of this and how we don't get to see, you know, a steroided up super shredder fighting the Ninja Turtles as a team because they really didn't even.
00:16:57
Rob
i mean, there's just that little bit of the rooftop battle and you could even call that in the first one, a little bit anticlimactic because he just charges splinter splinter grabs the nunchucks and wraps it and chucks him. It's like kind of a almost a little bit anticlimactic in that way too.
00:17:13
Rob
um But super shredder is literally on screen for like 20 seconds just to drown in a dock collapse. And it occurs to me like, How does this even happen? Did they did they literally the only thing that makes sense to me?
00:17:27
Rob
Did they just run out of money the day they went to shoot this? It was just like, all right, guys, we're like three weeks overdue. Like we're way over budget.
00:17:35
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:17:35
Rob
We got just we just got to wrap this thing up. So um instead of like this big choreographed thing, Strud is going knock the pier down. He's just going to drown and we're all going to go home and we're going to get this to the theaters because Pizza Hut has a deal with us and we have a timeline to hit.
00:17:51
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, seriously. I mean, I'm... I was so confused by that. um You know, I do like...
Comic Relief & Inconsistent Tone
00:18:01
Matthew Allison
The funny thing is is i do like the Toca and Rezar stuff.
00:18:06
Matthew Allison
i'm I'm not gonna lie. I don't actually... i don't actually hate them. um Again, like, it's clearly meant to be Bebop and Rocksteady, but I don't mind them, actually, at all. I think they're kind of like...
00:18:27
Matthew Allison
fun in their own you know in their own way um i do i'm sorry like just the sake of like scenes for scenes when they go out and they start knocking down telephone poles and things like that the there's one couple that's randomly out getting a cab nobody else like Nobody else sees that, but I still, for whatever reason, like I chuckled at that scene. Like, what do we do if they come over here? And she's like, eh, let them get their own cab.
00:19:00
Matthew Allison
Like, it was funny. It worked for me, but it's just like, that's the only couple that's there.
00:19:02
Rob
Yeah.
00:19:05
Matthew Allison
Like, again, what are we filming? Like, what is, that like, what is happening?
00:19:11
Rob
Yeah, there's i agree with you. Like when you just kind of look at like, OK, this the whole premise of this is just silly, right? Like this is like this is kind of nonsense. I mean, again, teenage mutant ninja turtles for words that on their own like mean something. But when you put them together, it really
Action Scenes & Engagement Issues
00:19:30
Rob
shouldn't make sense. But somehow through all kinds of different magic has become this, this property that we do love.
00:19:38
Rob
So you, but you can't really take it too seriously at times. Like, so yeah, Tokar and Raze are being a little goofy, especially the parts where they, they call shredder mama. Like that's actually funny to me.
00:19:49
Rob
Like that, that part is kind of funny.
00:19:51
Matthew Allison
Yeah.
00:19:51
Rob
I like those bits. Um, what I don't like though, what I don't like traditional pre fight donut. Um,
00:20:03
Rob
Oh, seriously. Like, how did I stand for this shit as a kid? So again, if you haven't seen this in a while, they they have this concoction that the professor helps them make in their subway lair where they're going to try to like shove this stuff and make them eat this, this stuff that's going to de-evolve them or demutate them, I guess.
00:20:23
Rob
Back to their original state. So they cram it in. Their plan is they're going to cram it into these donuts and make them eat the donut. and And they're going to call this a traditional pre-fight donut. And they're going to share these things together.
00:20:38
Rob
And somehow... And it it had to have been like a cocaine-filled writer's room where they came up with this. Like, what like this was the best they could come up with? Like, really? i and there's surround And you mentioned it earlier. Like, the foot have all been, like, arrested for the most part until we need them to do literally nothing. They're background dressing here. They come out of nowhere.
00:21:00
Rob
They fill the entire, like, three floors of this construction site. And then they proceed to just kind of, like... You know what they are They're like, they're like in Wii sports, like the background characters that just jump up in the air and do that. That's what they are.
00:21:14
Rob
The foot clan are literally the characters from Wii sports.
00:21:15
Matthew Allison
Yeah.
00:21:17
Rob
That's what, that's what they're there for. Like instead of everybody dog piling and just ending the turtles and like making this problem for shredder go away, he's going to send out his two mutants and everybody else is just there to cheer them on.
00:21:30
Rob
I guess like it's that whole bit is honestly terrible. on And if I'm being honest, like I kind of like that first fight a little bit. I'm sure if I watch it again, I would probably hate it, though.
00:21:42
Rob
It actually just gets worse. like The TGRI lab fight is really bad.
00:21:45
Matthew Allison
Mm-hmm.
00:21:47
Rob
There is an ungodly amount of guys just standing around waiting. The junkyard fight is pretty bad, too. The second junkyard fight is maybe worse. like How do I not remember how bad this was? like There were so many parts of this that were just completely phoned in And it's, um it's kind of sad.
00:22:08
Rob
Cause it's like, I, I don't remember this being this bad.
00:22:12
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, it's it's a lot of phoned in things.
Flawed Final Battle
00:22:15
Matthew Allison
um And even
00:22:19
Matthew Allison
even the so ending fight, um you know, you see all of those Foot Clan members before, and then they take out, what, five or six?
00:22:31
Rob
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:31
Matthew Allison
And then they're gone. Like what happened to all of the ones that are in the warehouse and like even filmmaking perspective, where does like, how does shredder get behind that speaker?
00:22:45
Matthew Allison
Like there's no spot in that whatever club, whatever you want to call it for him to just enter from behind that speaker and push it over. Like he would have had to have walked by people who I'm sorry,
00:23:02
Matthew Allison
are way too fucking casual for two giant creatures running in then turtles, then guys in ninja outfits.
00:23:13
Matthew Allison
But then when shredder walks in, you notice how like, while they're fighting, everybody's like, yeah. And they're doing the song and everything, which again, like, yes, everybody knows that song. It's hysterical.
00:23:26
Matthew Allison
But from a filmmaking standpoint, it's, How does he know that they're Ninja Turtles? How does he know that there's a villain? Like, you listen to the lyrics of the song, and I'm like, I couldn't help but go, he would never make this song on the spot.
00:23:41
Matthew Allison
Nobody knows what the hell these things are.
00:23:44
Rob
I mean, not only do they have the song, like just he freestyles it, but his hype man already knows the words he's going to say that they're going to repeat at the end of the bar.
00:23:55
Rob
It's unbelievable.
00:23:55
Matthew Allison
yes
00:23:55
Rob
And the choreography is all the same. Like the band knows what to play and when to play it. And they, and the choreography just hits all together. The crazy thing is like, if,
00:24:06
Rob
If it wasn't for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, like 12 people on the planet would know what ninjutsu
Cultural Significance vs. Quality
00:24:12
Rob
is. Like the only reason but that that ninjas even exist in pop culture is because of Ninja Turtles.
00:24:13
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:24:18
Rob
Like that's that's the entire reason. So yeah, sure. It makes sense that Rob Van Winkle would be up there on stage rapping about ninjas and turtles because that's clearly what they are.
00:24:31
Matthew Allison
Yeah, but, like, yeah, though that crowd is just... They're so casual. Like, so casual about what's going on that I'm just like... Again, the Turtles at this point are not known.
00:24:47
Matthew Allison
Like, they're not...
00:24:49
Rob
but they kind of should be for the crappy job they do hiding themselves.
00:24:52
Matthew Allison
Right. Um... But, and then even after, like, when they get done, when Treader gets blown out of the window, if you go and look, it's so, like, yeah, by the
00:25:04
Rob
By a speaker, by the way, yeah we we got, we got to make sure we cover that. Yeah. they They just play a guitar note really loud and shredder gets launched. Like he's in a trebuchet and, and probably goes like, I don't know, 300 yards.
00:25:15
Matthew Allison
way.
00:25:19
Matthew Allison
Yeah, which again, though, based on the filming, how does he get knocked out of the window? Because he's still standing up against a wall. He's not, if you really watch how that's filmed, he's not on that side with the window at all.
00:25:37
Matthew Allison
So, but, um and then when they go to run out and go find where Shredder is,
00:25:38
Rob
Yeah.
00:25:46
Matthew Allison
Literally, you can see people like extras in the background. There's a group of people that are acting like they just met up at the club. Like they're introducing like they're introducing their friends to another set of friends.
00:26:02
Matthew Allison
Like no care that something just happened. Also, like this goddamn snapping turtle and fucking wolf are still just here.
00:26:14
Rob
No explanation. They're just there. yeah
00:26:16
Matthew Allison
Like, they're just sitting there. Like, it's just... It's such a random movie going back and watching it now that I'm glad I... Like, I am glad that we did this.
00:26:30
Matthew Allison
But yeah, I had... And you know what? The funny thing is, is I still watch this. The last time I saw this, I was an adult.
00:26:41
Matthew Allison
Like, I wasn't a teenager or anything like that. Like, I know the last time I watched this, I was an adult. But I think it had been so long since I watched the first one that I still had kind of like...
00:26:55
Matthew Allison
you know, oh, this is just a fun movie kind of glasses on, and watching it so close to the first one, just going, this is actually a really big downgrade.
00:27:07
Matthew Allison
um to To me, at least. Watching these so close together, this just feels like a major downgrade compared to the last time that I had watched this, just kind of on its own.
Rewatching Disappointment
00:27:21
Rob
i I really kind of feel bad for like younger Gen Xers and millennials that would have grown up with this movie that maybe haven't seen it a while might be listening to this.
00:27:32
Rob
I kind of almost feel like me, it like but I kind of feel like the two of us explaining to them that this movie actually is really bad is almost like, them finding out that Santa Claus isn't real for the second time.
00:27:45
Rob
Like it's, it's kind of like that same thing. Like I, I was really sitting on my couch and I was like really bummed out at like, I thought this was really good. I really liked this movie. I really was like, this was a big part of my childhood.
00:28:00
Rob
Cause again, Growing up, like we didn't like streaming wasn't a thing. Like you could go rent a VHS tape, but you had to like drive into town to get it. And you could only get like two at a time sometimes. So like you kind of watched what you had. And I've seen this movie dozens of times.
00:28:17
Rob
And at no point in those dozens of times that i watched it, did it occur to me that it was actually crap.
00:28:30
Matthew Allison
You know, I have to say, i really actually don't think I like this movie overall. um
00:28:42
Rob
Yeah.
00:28:42
Matthew Allison
I just have to say I don't like it. there's there was ah There was a couple of things here and there that I just, you know, I kind of chuckled and whatnot. But yeah, from start to finish, this... And and here's the real big final thing that I will, like, really say is when this was on, I was not focused because I was getting torn out of the movie.
00:29:09
Matthew Allison
When the first one was on, I was focused.
00:29:10
Rob
Hmm.
00:29:15
Matthew Allison
And this one just did not keep my, and this one did not keep my interest like the first one did.
00:29:16
Rob
Yeah.
00:29:21
Rob
I think this is like a reverse Watchmen, right? Where we kind of had it in our heads that Watchmen and and also the second Matrix movie were we're kind of bad.
00:29:25
Matthew Allison
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:30
Rob
And then watching them again, it's kind of like, oh, actually, no, I think I didn't give that movie enough credit. And now it's kind of like, oh, yeah, that movie was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it. And then kind of come out of it. And it's like, oh, man, ah why did I do that to myself? Now I now i know this isn't any good.
00:29:51
Matthew Allison
Yeah, i I truly feel this, again, like I said, this is a step back. um I mean, this was still a very, very successful movie. It made less money than the first one, but it still managed to be the second highest independent made film of that generation.
Production Challenges & Changes
00:30:11
Matthew Allison
um Behind the first Turtles spawned tons of toys, video games, and I mean, good Lord, it expanded to stage and they did like a musical, which was horrendous.
00:30:27
Matthew Allison
Um, but man, like again, insanely popular, um, you know, and popular enough to warrant the third one, uh, which came out two years from this.
00:30:28
Rob
right
00:30:42
Matthew Allison
Um, and then that essentially kind of just ended the franchise. Um, But yeah, ah a very disappointing second effort,
00:30:54
Matthew Allison
um I feel.
00:30:58
Rob
ah Do you want to do the third one or not?
00:31:02
Matthew Allison
You know, i almost feel like... I had no intention of doing the third one because I wanted to remember this series with the first and the second one. But I feel like the second one...
00:31:16
Matthew Allison
i want Rob, here's what I'll say. I want to do the third one to see if it's as bad as I remember, or of two and three or if two and three are essentially just the same movie.
00:31:30
Matthew Allison
After watching two again, is three actually any worse than two?
00:31:31
Rob
Yeah.
00:31:37
Rob
in.
00:31:39
Matthew Allison
So I think that's what we're going to have to do. We're going to have to finish this and go with the third one because I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the third one is that there's no way the third one is worse than the second one.
00:31:55
Matthew Allison
I think at the end of this, we're going to say, yeah they're both kind of the same.
00:31:56
Rob
and
00:32:01
Rob
And because the thing is, I remember as a kid watching the third one again, dozens and dozens of times. But like even then, i kind of knew like, oh, it's not actually good.
00:32:07
Matthew Allison
Yep.
00:32:10
Rob
But, you know, hey, it's it's you know, it's the turtles like and I and I had this statistic that I didn't get a chance to share. Yeah. when we talked about the first one.
00:32:21
Rob
Um, and what was interesting was the number of intellectual properties that got made and how, like, okay, found it finally.
00:32:21
Matthew Allison
Yeah.
00:32:39
Rob
Um, when you look in the nineteen eighty s Original film, so brand new IP, was like 72% of what was being made, as opposed to licensed IP, which made up like 28%.
00:32:53
Rob
So when you think about it, like for us growing up in the 80s and 90s, being able to see an adapted version of something we already loved was not something, was just a guarantee. And like in today's modern day and age, everything gets adapted.
00:33:07
Rob
As soon as anything becomes popular, you know, look at something like The Hunger Games, like the this massive, massive book that just blew up like crazy. This whole series, um you know, things like you can think of other book adaptions, like obviously Harry Potter is one of the biggest ones most recently.
00:33:22
Rob
But even things like Twilight and ah Fifty Shades of Grey, these books that just everybody, not everybody, I didn't read those. But, you know, a lot of people are reading, of course, are going to get adapted, like everything is going to get adapted.
00:33:34
Rob
But in today, um so the statistic I have is between 2015 and 2023, existing IP was 63% of the films that were being made, while original ah intellectual property was only 37%.
00:33:50
Rob
So it's kind of like, it's hard to describe to anybody who wasn't there. what the feeling was of getting ah Ninja Turtles movie.
00:34:01
Rob
Like, but that just wasn't something that was guaranteed to happen.
00:34:02
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:34:05
Rob
Now it's like, you know, you think, of you think about the, the franchises that are huge. um You know, again, Harry Potter's done a million films and prequels, Star Wars, Hunger Games now is on their prequels.
00:34:16
Rob
um MCU, whatever's going on with DC, like all of the things that seem to dominate pop culture, are in a lot of cases, adapted IP.
00:34:29
Rob
so So to go back and just imagine how massive this was for us is really hard to try to describe if you weren't there.
00:34:38
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, again, like, huge, huge, huge cultural significance in media with these. um You know, some other facts about this movie, very, very rush like rushed production, um and again, just the...
00:34:58
Matthew Allison
the reason I just remember that I had this actually saved one Casey was taken out of this movie because he was seen by parents as a terrible role model. Cause he was literally was like parents wrote in saying they don't want to see somebody using everyday, a sports equipment, beating up thugs.
00:35:22
Matthew Allison
It's a bad example for kids. His hockey mask was scary. Like, just This movie was greatly affected by parents actually being upset with the tone of the first one.
00:35:37
Rob
yeah So instead of ah golf clubs and cricket bats, like just use the katana. Sure, that's better.
00:35:45
Matthew Allison
Yeah, like, they literally... um you know, had to take a lot of stuff out. um One other thing, April was recast because the actress that played her in the first one actually, like, got herself fired um because, one, she actually openly complained about the direction of the film.
00:36:09
Matthew Allison
She was another person who spoke out against the level of violence um in the movie. So she definitely, like... was not a fan of it.
00:36:22
Matthew Allison
um Shredder actually was not supposed to be in here. It was supposed to be Baxter Stockman, um but they didn't know how to actually make fight scenes with the robots, so they brought Shredder back.
00:36:34
Matthew Allison
He was not going to be in this movie.
00:36:37
Rob
Hmm. Interesting.
00:36:41
Matthew Allison
and So there's there's a lot of things that really just kind of got thrown together. um For this movie to be produced...
Practical Effects Limitations
00:36:54
Rob
And as much as we kind of talked about like, yeah, the live action stuff when it's actually live and not live action with like giant air quotes around it because it's all CG. Yeah. there's definitely things that I will fully admit as somebody who typically prefers practical effects, like, like go ahead and try to do Krang practically, like, go ahead.
00:37:13
Rob
Like what, how going to make that work? Like you could probably do it, I guess. And maybe honestly, that one's a bad example, but yeah, I think like Baxter Stockman, like, yeah, like how do you make that one really work?
00:37:25
Rob
Um, you know, when, when he has to fly, like, I don't I don't know. Um, I think that one, I think there are certain ones and that do get a little bit tricky. um And I can see where I will definitely say there's times where CG is going to have to happen. And, you you know, almost anything that happens in the MCU now, like you kind of need to be able to use modern special effects to make it work.
00:37:47
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no. So, you know, we're gonna we're going to go to the
Conclusion & Speculation on TMNT 3
00:37:53
Matthew Allison
third one. um My prediction is, like I said, we're not going to be severely disappointed because...
00:38:01
Matthew Allison
You know, we're both in agreement. The second one does not hold up like we thought. So we'll finish this off with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3, which sometimes people will say turtles in time.
00:38:14
Matthew Allison
um But yeah, we'll ah we'll see how that movie holds up and go from there.
00:38:25
Rob
We will make it happen. we We will watch that.
00:38:27
Matthew Allison
Yes.
00:38:28
Rob
So you, the listener, do not have to because you probably don't want to.
00:38:32
Matthew Allison
You know what? I will say this. I know that we have watched worse than Turtles 3.
00:38:39
Rob
Oh, oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. 100 percent until until something sinks below the Super Mario Brothers movie. Like, I'm I don't know what it will take to get worse than that.
00:38:50
Matthew Allison
Yeah. So, listen... Great to be back doing this show. Thank you guys so much for listening. Everything that you will need to contact us, email, comments for videos, everything will be in our show description. Please click those links, send in your ideas, thoughts on these episodes.
00:39:11
Matthew Allison
We are very happy to be back. Thank you for listening. We will catch you next time at Matt Goes to the Movies.