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Superman
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EMAIL: MGTTMPODCAST@GMAIL.COM
https://linktr.ee/MattGoesToTheMovies
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Transcript
Introduction to the New DC Universe
00:00:01
mgttmpodcast
Welcome back everybody. Matt Goes to the Movies here with a another episode and this time we are talking ah about the start of the brand new DCU universe and that is Superman.
00:00:19
mgttmpodcast
Now, I mean, Rob... clearly one of the most recognizable comic book characters in history, a role that has been played by many.
James Gunn's Direction and Control
00:00:30
mgttmpodcast
Um, and, you know, again, like I said, the start of a brand new universe, um, which I have a lot of thoughts on and I'm sure you will too, but you know, this is by James Gunn.
00:00:45
mgttmpodcast
This guy has control of everything. Um, i I have some thoughts on that and some of the things that have already come before this. And I think that's, that's a key to this um good conversation that we're going to have, but this is the second time i have seen this movie and the first time for you.
00:01:07
mgttmpodcast
um So my initial questions are, where do, where do you think this starts for the DCU?
00:01:17
Rob
That's a fantastic question. And it's one that I've literally been asking myself basically since this movie got announced and DC announced they were also rebooting their whole cinematic universe.
00:01:33
Rob
And I think it's an interesting choice because Superman is, like you said, one of the most recognizable, most iconic characters. I don't even, i' and you'll notice I didn't say comic book characters. I'm just saying characters in all of fiction and all of literature, all ah anything that has ever been created.
Is Superman a Box Office Draw?
00:01:52
Rob
That Superman logo is among the most recognizable that is out there. And he is one of the most important, most recognizable characters. where I think it was an interesting choice is that if you're going to try to just do box office, you do it around Batman, you know, like you do it around somebody like that.
00:02:13
Rob
Um, Or you you cast a major star as Superman. so So that's the draw. i you know For all the Superman tattoos that people out there have and things like that, I'm not necessarily convinced that Superman himself, that character, is the draw in 2025.
00:02:35
Rob
that some of these other characters might be. So I, when this was announced, I was like, that's a very curious choice that you're rebuilding on him. um as opposed to maybe somebody who, who's guaranteed to do a little more box office that, that you're not going with Robert Pattinson's Batman and, and using that as your jumping off point. That was always curious to me.
James Gunn's Leadership Potential
00:02:58
Rob
And a guy like James Gunn that certainly his his Guardians of the Galaxy films were largely beloved by all. The second one, neither of us particularly care for, um but it's got its moments.
00:03:13
Rob
But that first one really redefined a lot of things about superhero films. And him as your... your you know, your shepherd of the whole connected universe, I thought was also an interesting choice. I didn't necessarily see him as that guy, but to me watching this film, okay.
00:03:36
Rob
Yeah, I'm in. i I will will really get into it, but I, for one am interested to see what a James Gunn led DC cinematic universe turns into.
00:03:53
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, I think um he's laid a good enough
Critique of the Superman Film
00:03:58
mgttmpodcast
groundwork. in I mean, realistically, if you want to get very technical, because pretty much all of it is almost canon, um except for he changed the ending, and I don't know if you've watched anything from Peacemaker or Season 2, but The Suicide Squad almost really kind of is the beginning of this universe, even though and think essentially this really kind of takes place around the same timeframe.
00:04:27
mgttmpodcast
Um, but i think he's laid some good groundwork. I do think there are for as much hate as man of steel had gotten. And I think some of, and it's always like this though, but like,
00:04:43
mgttmpodcast
some of the hate that Henry Cavill got for playing Superman. And then when it was found, he wasn't going to be, you know, all of a sudden everybody loves them and, Oh my God, how could you ever replace them? Things like that.
00:04:54
mgttmpodcast
Um, you know, i do think that there are some pretty strong issues with this movie. Um, just like there was with man of steel.
00:05:08
mgttmpodcast
And although I think this is a good jumping off point, you know, one of my things that I will be curious about, because what I was looking for, and it's certainly a different universe than what Zack Snyder had.
00:05:23
mgttmpodcast
um And it's certainly a kind of ah a different way to portray Superman than what we just got um with the DCEU. but I wasn't blown away by his performance. Um, and that's David corner, uh, sweat sweet.
00:05:40
mgttmpodcast
Um, I don't think he's, I don't think he's any better. And that's one of the things that like kind of pulled me out of this on a second rewatch was, I don't think this is any much like any more inherently better than man of steel.
00:05:59
mgttmpodcast
Having recently just seen that as well. Um, I think this movie really falls apart towards the third act. I think it slows down to almost a crawl to the point when I first saw it, I went, oh God, like, wow. Because up until...
00:06:20
mgttmpodcast
about where Superman and we'll talk about it more kind of, you know, gets taken out of this movie for a little bit, so to speak. I was, I was really engaged. Um, I thought James Gunn did a very good job.
00:06:34
mgttmpodcast
And then, like I said, going towards that third act of the movie, I thought this thing came to a crashing and staggering halt. Um, which really caused me some concern. Now, I do think by the ending, he managed to get it back, um but it did give me some cause for so ah some concern here. um And, you know, it's just one movie, but there were some glaring issues to me ah with this. Now, one thing I will say is I do really, really love the fact that we don't need an actual...
Skipping Superman's Origin Story
00:07:14
mgttmpodcast
origin story.
00:07:15
Rob
Yes.
00:07:15
mgttmpodcast
I do like the fact like that he is established in this world pretty well. um It's, what, three years that he's been around?
00:07:26
Rob
Yeah, so that's actually something that I really took note of. This movie starts off with um several titles ah that are put on screen telling, you know, it's been 3,000 days. So the the things that this does is it really sets up that, yes, there are metahumans um that are out there.
00:07:46
Rob
They've been around for this long. Humanity's been around this long. Superman crashed on Earth this many years ago. And he, you know, showed himself to the public for the last three years. I really thought that was a very interesting choice and kind of a bolder choice to kick it off.
00:08:03
Rob
And what I have to say, seeing how this works, and I've seen this once. So, i you know, maybe on a rewatch, I might feel differently as is it seems like your second watch gave you very a very different experience than your first.
00:08:18
Rob
But having seen this and now having also, you know, we've had Tom Holland's version of Spider-Man around for a while. I'm really convinced that I never need to see an origin story again for a superhero who we've already seen multiple, multiple, multiple variations of on screen.
00:08:38
Rob
I never need to see Uncle Ben die again. I never need to see Thomas or Martha Wayne die ever again. I never need it again. Like when you look at this and how well this starts,
00:08:49
Rob
and how we don't necessarily need to see him growing up in Smallville. We don't need to see Ma and Pa Kent, like raising him as a boy and explaining to him how he can't just be on the football team and taking everybody out and like all of that.
00:09:05
Rob
He's already on the job. and And that's one of the things that sometimes slows superhero stories down is trying to slog through that origin story a little bit. I didn't feel like we missed anything by that not being included here.
00:09:19
Rob
He's freaking Superman. We know who he is. We know the bit. We know all about him. um I kind of like that this movie said, look, we know you know who he is. We don't need to tell you who he is.
00:09:32
Rob
Here's some superheroes punching each other in the face.
Superman Costume Design Praise
00:09:34
Rob
We'll just give you what you want.
00:09:36
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, um I do like that. ah One thing I want to point out, too, is i will give credit for the for the costume because, you know, one of the big things was we've gotten away from the tights, you know, the the tights with the underwear, things like that.
00:09:59
mgttmpodcast
But I do think this costume... is probably the best interpretation of this version of Superman.
00:10:11
mgttmpodcast
I think it looks better than the version in Superman Returns. I, you know, I think it looks better as much as people want to say, um It looks better than Christopher Reeves.
00:10:25
mgttmpodcast
I think this is the best version of this outfit that we've seen on screen. um And that goes to the Arrowverse and everything like that. um i do give him credit because I really think that in...
00:10:41
mgttmpodcast
For whatever reason, this universe, whatever you want to say, this outfit works. I think he looks fantastic in the suit. I think that's a very, very strong point of this movie is that he looks great in costume.
00:10:59
mgttmpodcast
i will I will give him that.
00:11:00
Rob
And I kind of looked at the choice to do the red trunks as kind of being... It just fits the theme of this overall film. where Because like what's the point of that? like he He puts his pants on, and then he puts another set of red trunks over top. like Why?
00:11:15
Rob
like What's that about? and it's It's obviously a you know, it's it's an art decision that was made for the comics way back in the day. And it's just been his iconic look because it it serves no purpose. It doesn't do anything.
00:11:27
Rob
So the fact that like it's just this goofy kind of look, like if you actually think about Superman having to pull those on after he's already got his pants on, like it's just kind of silly and it's kind of goofy. It's a little bit.
00:11:39
Rob
It's just it's just kind of. not entirely serious. And to me, i felt like a lot of this movie was that.
Balancing Humor in the Film
00:11:48
Rob
It was one of the things that I think overall about this movie. And and i and I just, I sort of see the costume as, is again, a piece of that where,
00:11:57
Rob
Parts of this movie were very funny, but at no point did I feel like this movie crossed the line between funny and goofy or funny and silly. Like we didn't have a Thor love and thunder moment in this movie to me where it was like, okay, that was, that's just, that's just ridiculous. Like get the hell out of here with that nonsense. Like it, there were legitimately funny parts that I laughed out loud and it never felt like this, even with Lex being, and I loved the interpretation of Lex Luthor in this, um, I never felt like it, this movie took itself entirely too seriously for any long periods of time where it wasn't just kind of fun.
00:12:39
Rob
Um, and I, and that's just sort of how I interpret the costume is sort of through that same lens. Like, yeah, of course they would do that version of it. If that's, if this is how they're presenting the movie, does that, does, am I making any sense on that?
00:12:51
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, I think you're making total sense. um And yeah, I thought Nicholas Holt was fantastic. um I can't wait to see more of him. I like Nicholas Holt a lot.
00:13:02
mgttmpodcast
I think he's very, very good. Yeah.
00:13:04
Rob
Can we talk about how badass it was when he's walking through Antarctica, just pops up and just he's just strolling?
00:13:06
mgttmpodcast
it and
00:13:11
Rob
Where do you get those sunglasses? I want a pair of those sunglasses. I want the sunglasses. I want the coat. The whole thing was just so badass because, you know, dude is freezing without a hat on.
00:13:21
Rob
He's got a bald head and it is Antarctica and he's got no hat on and he's just strolling because he doesn't care.
00:13:23
mgttmpodcast
Mm-hmm.
00:13:27
Rob
I was it was so badass. I love that bit.
00:13:30
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, i I thought that was really good.
Superman's Interview with Lois Lane
00:13:33
mgttmpodcast
um I thought the CGI was, you know, that's one of the areas where I thought the CGI was lacking a little was some of those ah those fights um inside the Fortress of Solitude, especially when ah they hack into the computer. I thought that was a ah a little much. I was like, what are we doing here? Yeah.
00:13:55
mgttmpodcast
But I will say one thing that I will say is a standout in this movie for me. um ah Above all else, above the action, above the costume.
00:14:07
mgttmpodcast
And I was hoping for maybe a little bit more after this. um But that scene... where Superman is getting interviewed by Lois Lane and it's just the two of them because spoiler alert folks, they're together.
00:14:21
Rob
Mm-hmm.
00:14:27
mgttmpodcast
Um, that scene is amazing. Um, that is to me probably one of the best examples of what maybe it would be like to be this person.
00:14:44
mgttmpodcast
Um, to know that you could do the right thing to help someone and still maybe get ridiculed or questioned or say that that's not your place. Um,
00:14:57
mgttmpodcast
that scene I thought was absolutely incredible. Um, I thought he showed a huge range, um, in that scene. And it really was like, I was absolutely glued during that. And when he just kind of lets out that, like that primal, just yell, people were going to die.
00:15:24
mgttmpodcast
That's, it's fantastic. um I really thought in that moment, like, Gunn was able to capture with the script, like, what it would be like to be Superman and to just know that basically you could do anything.
00:15:42
mgttmpodcast
um But maybe you're not supposed to.
00:15:46
Rob
it was one of my favorite scenes of the movie. And frankly, it's one of my favorite scenes that I can think of, um, in all of superhero films. Like it's, and we've never seen anything like this before. And that's what I love so much about it, where doing the right thing is sometimes the wrong thing or can be interpreted as the wrong thing.
00:16:04
Rob
It just, it was so interesting to me. I was just like you, i was glued to my screen. i was like, I've, you know, if my house is on fire, I wouldn't leave right now. Like I need to see how this ends. And I almost wish we could have gotten a little bit more of that. I mean, they did play with some of those themes a little bit more, but when you think about the character of Superman,
00:16:24
Rob
One of the problems that writers have when working with him is that, yes, we're all aware that Kryptonite is his, you know, that's that's his Achilles heel is is this one thing.
Challenges with Superman's Character
00:16:38
Rob
And I think magic kind of no actually I think he is immune to magic. I don't even remember. they They kind of turn some of that stuff on and off. But. the you really like he's invulnerable. He's super fast. He can fly. He's super strong.
00:16:51
Rob
He can do everything. So in terms of putting him in peril, it's really tough to put him in peril, like without weird kryptonite just showing up all the time. So the way that writers typically try to create drama, create tension when you're writing a Superman story is you have to put those around him in the peril.
00:17:11
Rob
He has to always be saving Jimmy Olsen. He always has to be saving Lois, you know, or it's something where it's, you know, threatening the entire world. um And he's the only one that can stop it. And he can't be everywhere at once.
00:17:23
Rob
ah The other way that they sometimes really create that drama is by, um working with his secret identity and having to, you know, threaten that his secret identity will be found out, which by the way, like four or five years ago, I think he just announced to the world that he was Clark Kent.
00:17:39
Rob
I don't know if they're still doing that in the comics or not. I haven't picked one up in a while, but at one point he just announced the world, like, Hey, I'm, I'm Clark Kent. um And that was kind of an interesting bit for a little bit. So they kind of got rid of that.
00:17:50
Rob
but that this was where I think Superman as a character becomes as fascinating as you can possibly imagine, because he has the ability to stop an invasion.
00:18:02
Rob
He has the ability to, to halt a war where innocent people absolutely would have died. ah millions would have suffered. Um, And he he did it, but he was being criticized for it because he's not a diplomat and who gives him the authority. Like all of these moral and ethical questions that um that that book that that book series that I love that I've recommended before, the Ann Philosophy series, where it looks at all the the pop culture references and like writes whole essays on on these things. Like you could absolutely...
00:18:35
Rob
delve right into an essay on that whole idea. And it would be fascinating. um That to me, I was like, I i love where they're going with this. um Because that's, that's the way you make Superman interesting. Otherwise he can be boring at times because he's impervious to everything. He can do everything. His powers are everything.
00:18:54
mgttmpodcast
Yes, exactly. And i do, again, i will say one of the things that I will give this movie credit for is they did manage to make me go,
00:19:09
mgttmpodcast
okay I believe what's going on in this story. I'm interested to see him doing these, you know, events, these heroic things fighting.
00:19:20
mgttmpodcast
Um, and it didn't just feel mundane. Like he would automatically win. Now, again, like, do you know he's going to? Yeah. Like, no offense here, I'm not trying to throw a shade, but like, you're not going to kill him in his first movie slash second movie, Batman V Superman. Like you're not going to do that.
00:19:41
mgttmpodcast
um But like you said, you also know that he's pretty much impervious to almost everything, but still they made these things believable and they made it. So again, Lex is incredibly smart and he's,
00:19:57
mgttmpodcast
you know, getting data and doing all of these things to make sure that he would be able to, you know, have someone that would successfully be able to fight Superman. um I thought that was done very well in this movie, too.
00:20:13
mgttmpodcast
I thought, yeah, I believe these fights going on. I believe that there is a struggle. I believe that he is hurt. I did enjoy that.
00:20:22
Rob
Yeah, I think um overall, the visual effects, I think, were pretty solid throughout this. i I really struggled at times to notice what, you know, sometimes I thought something was ah practical or was ah like a real person or was, you know, even crypto the dog. I was at times I was like, is that real or is that not really? You know, it was it was actually really tough to tell. I was really impressed.
00:20:43
Rob
um I actually think the most impressive visual effects work were the lantern constructs. And those were incredible. Those were so well done. um I thought, like, give me so much more of these, um especially when Nathan Fillion's throwing the the middle finger constructs just out of the ground to blow up the tanks towards the end of the movie.
00:21:05
Rob
so was That was fantastic. I love those parts um and and the constructs in general, like i said, so well done, ah was probably my favorite visual effect of the whole film.
00:21:17
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, I thought he was very well done as well. um Again, like having them be part of this universe, it it was all very well done.
00:21:28
mgttmpodcast
I did like all of that.
00:21:29
Rob
and But that was also incredibly risky because you had kind of talked about this a little bit earlier in that there is a good bit of this movie that is not Superman and are brand new characters that had to be introduced.
00:21:31
mgttmpodcast
absolutely.
00:21:43
Rob
And i immediately, when they said, oh yeah, we're going to get Mr. Terrific and you're going to get Guy Gardner and you're going to get all this. And I'm like, what... Like give us a Superman movie first, before you start trying to introduce all these other characters.
00:21:57
Rob
And the first thing I immediately thought of, and, and if anybody's listened to who's listening now did listen to our Batman V Superman review, which you should do that, by the way, we had some fun.
00:22:08
Rob
um um that One of the major problems that that movie had was you you were introducing way too much. You were introducing Doomsday, a new Batman, a new Wonder Woman.
00:22:21
Rob
There were several other characters that were being introduced and trying to be set up and trying to do way too much all at once. It was trying to tell 14 different stories and didn't really tell any of them particularly well.
00:22:33
Rob
And that's really where that movie fell apart. And to me, in my head, I'm going, okay, you're you're really... you're really kind of trying to use this film to boot this whole new connected universe together.
00:22:48
Rob
We don't know who Superman, and we don't know who this guy is. Like most people have never heard of him before and he's going to be leading your franchise. And then you're also going to introduce not even the most popular green lantern, the one that everybody knows and how Jordan or even Jon Stewart, like you're not giving those ones.
Introducing Lesser-Known Characters
00:23:04
Rob
like we like Nathan Philly and sure. Like he's funny. Like he, you know, he's definitely got nerd cred, but Mr. Terrific is kind of a deep cut. Like you're, unless you're a comic nerd, that's not one you're going to really recognize. And and maybe that was a fan kind of courtesy.
00:23:20
Rob
um But that was, that was incredibly risky and hot girl as well, which, not a super deep cut, but also like not one of the core justice league members that everybody would recognize. Like we're not talking wonder woman. We're not talking cyborg. Like we're not talking Martian man hunter. Like there's, there's definitely more recognizable justice league members that you could have picked and definitely not Batman.
00:23:43
Rob
um and So i I think it was really risky, especially with the track record, the DC films have had to go the route they did. I think it worked.
00:23:55
Rob
I'm thinking you're going to say you disagree.
00:23:58
mgttmpodcast
No, I i think it worked. And here's the reason why I think it worked is because, yes, like, you know, Green Lantern.
00:24:09
mgttmpodcast
OK, but again, most people, the average person is going to go hal Jordan.
00:24:16
Rob
Yeah.
00:24:17
mgttmpodcast
I think this works because you're not introducing major characters and almost treating them like side characters. And even though this group has obviously a big effect on this world and they're a major part of it, they are still side characters. So I think I didn't care that there's all of these people in here because...
00:24:40
mgttmpodcast
you're not trying to just shove, you know, ah the Batman or Wonder Woman or Flash in here just to go, oh well, we need to catch up.
00:24:52
mgttmpodcast
Like, this has nothing to catch up to. And I think that's one of the things that I like that James Gunn is doing is it does seem like he's going to do his own thing. He's not going to try and catch up, like, and...
00:25:07
mgttmpodcast
you could argue that you don't have to catch up to them anymore because of the fact that, you know, they have, it's it's funny to say that they've fallen so far. Um, when,
00:25:18
mgttmpodcast
you know, 500, $600 million dollars are considered like failures um compared to what Marvel used to make.
00:25:23
Rob
Yeah.
00:25:27
mgttmpodcast
Like, it's a funny world that we live in now like that. But, you know, he doesn't, he's, okay, this is what it's going to take. If I don't like a script, we're not going to put the movie into production.
00:25:39
mgttmpodcast
He's actually canceled projects already that he himself confirmed they were working on and then came out and said, look, We could not get a script right. Maybe we revisit it down the line, but it's not going to hold up other things that are working just because I said we were going to do it.
00:25:56
mgttmpodcast
I respect that. um For now, i respect the fact that the studio is allowing him to do that. They are letting him control this. Yeah.
00:26:07
mgttmpodcast
That's why with with the flaws that this movie does have, I still have hope because it does seem like he does have a vision and they're going to let him do that. I mean, you think about all the stories of studio interference and, you know, things that happen to these projects that just go, and now they're dead.
00:26:28
mgttmpodcast
For a studio to sit there and let this guy go, yeah, no, this movie's done. Like, we're cutting this script. We're not going to do it. It's very rare. Um, so I think that's why this works in this movie for me is because again, it's not shoehorned. And I feel like, yeah, you can have these people in this universe.
00:26:49
mgttmpodcast
Um, um, And let's see how other characters come in, how they're introduced or what they, you know, what they have been doing. Why weren't they a part of this first experience? um I am actually going to give him trust that he's going to bring that in accordingly.
00:27:08
Rob
The thing that really, thinking about the future of this franchise, one of the things that kind of surprised me was at no point do they ever say the words Justice League?
00:27:23
Rob
They continue to say Justice Gang. they can ah They're obviously still workshopping it. you know It doesn't seem like they're really sold other than Guy Gardner. and Nobody seems really sold on it.
00:27:34
Rob
And I just thought for sure by the end of the movie, somebody would call it the Justice League and that would be what they would move on. But they didn't. And i did that surprise you?
00:27:46
mgttmpodcast
Um, again, no, i don't think it did because of the fact that...
00:27:52
Rob
Thank you.
00:27:53
mgttmpodcast
ah Based on hearing him talk again, i I think that he's just he's taking the road that he wants to take. So I didn't feel like it would be rushed because to me, it just it wouldn't make sense in the interviews and the things that I have seen him say.
00:28:11
mgttmpodcast
um So I never had any kind of doubt that that might happen just because, again, like. I feel he's been very true to his word with what he's going to do.
00:28:23
Rob
And that's probably something and I need to get used to more with James Gunn is that as soon as you think he's going to zig, he zags. And that's really been kind of what he's done a lot of um throughout his you know last several years of filmmaking. So ah perhaps i was I was anticipating him going the more conventional filmmaking route when I should have known better.
00:28:46
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, I think he showed um you know some so pretty good world-building skills here. um Certainly for people who have watched Peacemaker, um and won't spoil anything here, um except for he certainly tied things together.
00:29:07
mgttmpodcast
like You fully well know that Peacemaker is a part of this universe. um Rob, have you seen anything from Season 2 yet?
00:29:14
Rob
Not yet. And i i enjoyed his character so much in The Suicide Squad that it was always something that I wanted to check out the the separate show. um But it was never something where I it it never seemed imperative that I needed to.
00:29:31
Rob
So it just got it got itself moved to the bottom of the queue of other stuff that I'm behind on.
00:29:37
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, I think ah season two here, especially with some of the things that have happened, ah season two, I think, is essential um to see what's going on in this universe, because I do believe, um and he has said this himself, and I think in a big way, but it it so far doesn't feel forced that season two is going to lead the the next Superman movie.
00:30:09
mgttmpodcast
um But it doesn't feel like Marvel feels right now. Well, like Marvel felt where you're, you're overloading. These shows are really made for no reason.
00:30:23
mgttmpodcast
um ah This feels like it should be watched instead of has to be watched.
00:30:31
Rob
o
00:30:32
mgttmpodcast
And that's another thing that I'll give him credit for.
00:30:35
Rob
So definitely credit to gun for a lot of things. um If I am going to do some critique, um one of the things that I wish he would have left behind when he exited the MCU permanently was the hero fighting a villain with the same power set trope.
00:30:55
Rob
That was a plague on much of the MCU. um We get to the end of of this film. And Superman is fighting Ultraman, who is just a co clone of him.
00:31:07
Rob
um And I wish they would have done something different with that. um A, I'm still waiting for somebody to do the whole Forever Evil story in some way and do it right, um which was a great run.
00:31:22
Rob
Probably, i would say it might be the most iconic story of the New 52. Like when you go back to like that, those years that DC ran the New 52, I think, you know, the crime syndicate and the forever evil storyline, that was a huge story. It was like a long period of time. And it it was like their whole line was involved in in that, in that story.
00:31:45
Rob
um I'd love for somebody to do it and do it right. i mean, we kind of got it in like the Lego DC supervillains game, which was sort of fun, but I'd like to see a serious take on it. And that's already done.
00:31:56
Rob
Like we can't do Ultraman now. We can't really do, you know, the crime syndicate or anything like that. Um, but it just, I don't know, like, and I, part of it goes back to what I said earlier about how Superman is, is kind of tough as a character because he's invulnerable to everything just about, um, but, uh, having, having him fight a clone of himself, I don't know. That was a bit of a letdown to me.
00:32:21
mgttmpodcast
Well, and again, I think that's where this movie kind of falls apart for me is that last bit. When he's trapped in that dimension... um i don't I think this movie really crawls. like It almost crashes to a halt.
00:32:40
mgttmpodcast
And I don't think anything in those particular scenes is that great. I mean, yes, um that person that helped Superman up out of the crater, ah that was done that like i thought that was a very good scene. But...
00:32:57
mgttmpodcast
him going back home to the farm. i have to say, i think Mon pod Kent, I think they're the weakest interpretation that I've seen.
00:33:04
Rob
Hmm.
00:33:05
mgttmpodcast
And I know they have a very limited time. Um, I, I think they're a very, yeah.
00:33:09
Rob
They came across as simpletons.
00:33:13
mgttmpodcast
And you know, here's the thing. Um, and I hope I articulate this well enough.
00:33:24
mgttmpodcast
You look at the other interpretations, Kevin Costner and things like that, of these characters, and man, like, i know maybe like maybe that's his point, like, just two very average people having to deal with this...
00:33:44
mgttmpodcast
extraordinarily ah above average person and raising him to be a good person. But they just like, these two people have no screen presence whatsoever.
00:33:56
mgttmpodcast
Um, I don't think they fit into a scene with this. Like, they seem like the characters that would be his parents in the Arrowverse, on the CW.
00:34:09
mgttmpodcast
They don't seem like major motion picture actors and actresses. um And that, you know, that's just my opinion. That's nothing to say about them personally.
00:34:21
mgttmpodcast
It's just they don't feel like they fit here.
00:34:24
Rob
I, you know, it's funny. I needed you to say that for me to kind of understand what about those scenes just like kind of didn't sit right with me. And they do feel like they're not from the same movie is is really what it is. Like they, they can, they come across as very simple people, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. But like,
00:34:42
Rob
there was something just overly down home farm country, like excessively. So like almost caricatures of, of like that Kansas farmer stereotype um that just kind of felt like, how did, how does, how does any of this work? Like, um so I, I definitely am picking up what you're throwing down.
00:35:08
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, and, you know, like I said, just those scenes, I do think the, you know, the portal being open, causing the split, I even found those pieces of the movie to not be that entertaining. There's some weird cuts there.
00:35:26
mgttmpodcast
um It felt like the the earthquake kind of took its time because it started... And it's like, I think the line was like, it'll be to the city. And then ah it like it's like it's stopped overnight because he gets captured and there's a whole night to day transition. And it's not just like, it's not first thing in the morning. Like, it seems like a whole...
00:35:54
mgttmpodcast
Like 12 hours has passed and like all of a sudden this thing is like now just getting like I felt like the transitions in the third act weren't as crisp.
00:36:07
mgttmpodcast
It felt very delayed. Rob, did you kind of get any of that?
00:36:11
Rob
Um, yeah, I, I think it seemed a little bit fast and loose how some of the science works of that, of like that spreading, you know, fissure in the ground.
00:36:22
Rob
Um, and when we kind of just want, okay, like we're building towards the battle. Like, obviously we, we know that Superman's going to go ahead and save the day. So like, let's just go ahead and let's just get on with it already. Like, let's go ahead and, and cut the drama, like the fake drama of waiting to see when he's going to show up and let's just get him here.
00:36:41
mgttmpodcast
Right, exactly. um You know, I did enjoy his speech to Luther. I thought that was i thought that was well done, too.
00:36:52
mgttmpodcast
um One of the things I didn't like, though, is, you know, Luther's an intelligent guy, but he's not indestructible.
00:37:06
mgttmpodcast
And I thought him getting thrown around by Crypto... Now, maybe you can say that Crypto knows just how hard to throw him so he doesn't break him, but he gets his ass flung around.
00:37:16
Rob
It doesn't seem that way, though.
00:37:19
mgttmpodcast
Like, yeah, I'm like, yo, how does this guy not have like a broken leg, a broken arm? Like, he just seemed a little too clean. um Like, for being tossed around the way that he was. I didn't care for that.
00:37:37
Rob
Yeah, he almost went straight up Hulk on Loki from the first Avengers movie. Like it was he was getting messed up. um Probably should have. I don't think he would have been able to walk.
00:37:51
Rob
Or or eat solid food.
00:37:52
mgttmpodcast
Right, it it exactly exactly. Now, I will say, though, fantastic job. Loved crypto. Thought he was great.
00:38:03
Rob
I had no idea coming into this, how much of this movie like crypto was in. I mean, we talked about some of these other side characters, um, these supporting roles, man, crypto is like heavily featured in this movie and we've getting to things we've never seen. We've never seen that.
00:38:22
Rob
Like, Um, I don't, I can't think of any Superman media other other than the actual comics and maybe some of the video games, like the Lego ones where crypto is even acknowledged as ah as like a thing.
00:38:35
Rob
Um, so I thought that was even from the first trailer, when we saw that, I was like, what? Okay. Like, let's see what happens. And, and again, because of the tone that gun chose for this movie, it works like it. It just weirdly works.
00:38:54
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, it definitely worked. um I thought he was, you know, I thought he was well done. I thought, you know, character wise, ah he was used in in good situations. I didn't feel like, you know, you could get into the danger of potentially crypto being MacGuffin kind of like he just.
00:39:19
mgttmpodcast
is there when he needs to be, but I thought his interactions in the movie were well-placed.
00:39:20
Rob
Yeah.
00:39:24
mgttmpodcast
Um, they made sense. Um, I do like the fact that he's, so that he's Supergirl's dog. Um, I did not expect that. I liked that towards the end of the, well, not towards the end at the end of the movie.
00:39:38
mgttmpodcast
Um, I did enjoy that. I thought that was a a surprisingly great addition to this movie. um One other thing that I will say again, and I know he gets a lot of slack for this. I never particularly cared about this aspect of it and it's it's universe to universe and it, you know, but the color palette, the brightness, you know,
00:40:06
mgttmpodcast
I thought this movie for what it was, minus again, a few scenes here and there. This is a very well shot movie color palette on this. I think is absolutely amazing. um I liked how bright and alive this movie felt.
00:40:25
Rob
It would have the the the way this film was portrayed would have. I mean, imagine trying to like throw an A.I. filter and say, hey, make this look like Zack Snyder's version of D.C. How crazy would that have looked against sort of the the fun, the the humor, the overall just tone, the hope of this movie? Yeah.
00:40:47
Rob
With that kind of darkness behind it, it just, yeah, I was really thinking a lot about that too. um ah Yeah, it fits. it It's like good technical choices throughout.
00:40:58
mgttmpodcast
Yes, no, I thought it was very well done in that aspect. And again, i think there is there is a very strong foundation here um to go on and go to these next movies. And the thing that I will be very interested um as like a ah kind of overall thought, is I will be very interested just to kind of see...
00:41:26
mgttmpodcast
how he balances the other characters in this because, you know, he says everything is connected and creature commandos has come out and that's part of
Integration of Characters in Upcoming Films
00:41:37
mgttmpodcast
this universe. Like everything is going to be part of this universe. So as long as he can do it, actors who voice, you know, ah animated projects are going to be, you know, preferably the main characters and things like that. They'll be on screen.
00:41:55
mgttmpodcast
Um, It'll be interesting to see how his worlds come together because not that it has to be dark, especially with the first movie that he's going to do, but how does your version, DCU Batman, come into Superman's world?
00:42:14
mgttmpodcast
You know, is Batman tonally dark? ah how is like How is he going to fit those things together to eventually have a movie where These characters have to come together.
00:42:30
mgttmpodcast
um That is one thing that I'll be very much looking forward to is how will he balance what is supposed to be kind of more darker and more lighthearted characters.
00:42:47
Rob
Yeah. um is he Is he going to go full like Batman in the blue in the 1966 camp kind of pow, bang? Like that's really the most recent time we've had an interpretation of Batman that was anything but pitch black, dark and not even just...
00:43:07
Rob
Batman, his villains, try to imagine Joker as anything like the Mark Hamill interpretation is like so, so good. um And, you know, um we just have seen like that variation.
00:43:25
Rob
um We're going to pretend the Jared Leto version doesn't exist for a second, as we all should. um Although I don't. It's actually probably better than I think sometimes the hate get ah that gets heaped on it.
00:43:36
Rob
The Heath Ledger version, of course, is is going to be forever an iconic performance. ah How do you do Joker? How do you do somebody like Victor Zaz? How do you do somebody like Bane?
00:43:50
Rob
like So many of Batman's rogues galleries don't work well, bright, hopeful, optimistic, funny. Like they just, they really don't work.
00:44:03
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, um that's going to be a tough, I think that'll be a tough challenge. um But again, i'm ah because of what he's done so far and things that he said, I'm looking forward to it.
Changing Box Office Landscape
00:44:17
mgttmpodcast
And i trust him to do it as long as the studio lets him stick out his vision. um
00:44:26
Rob
He'll probably give us like condiment man or something.
00:44:27
mgttmpodcast
You know, this movie was... right Right, like this movie for, ah you know, for as much as some people do want to say, um oh well, look at how much money it made or or didn't make and Man of Steel made more money than this.
00:44:45
mgttmpodcast
the The simple fact of the matter is, and You know, this day and age, superhero movies are not making as much as they did, but this was ah success.
00:44:58
mgttmpodcast
it Was it as big a success as maybe some people wanted it to be or were hoping for? No, but the simple fact of the matter is, again, we we movie-wise, relatively speaking here,
00:45:12
mgttmpodcast
We're in a world where somebody wants to say something bad about a movie making $125 in profits.
00:45:14
Rob
Thank you.
00:45:20
mgttmpodcast
like It's laughable and absurd to think that there's people out there going, yeah, but it only did $615 million dollars worldwide. Like, Man of Steel did $827. Okay, well, guess what?
00:45:39
mgttmpodcast
Marvel was, at one point, a juggernaut, and a billion dollars was expected. Like, it's just not how it...
00:45:46
Rob
What year did Man of Steel come out?
00:45:49
mgttmpodcast
Uh, was it 24? No. 2014. Was it? don't, when did that come out? 2000, 2013. was it when did that come out
00:45:55
Rob
For some reason, I'm thinking like 2009 sticks out in my head, but it's, I mean, trying to compare what people are paying money to see at the box office today.
00:46:03
mgttmpodcast
two thousand
00:46:05
mgttmpodcast
two thousand and thirteen
00:46:06
Rob
Okay. What people want to see in the theaters today compared to then I don't know that you can necessarily compare those things. I think not that streaming didn't exist at that time, but um it's a different world. it's a different world the The way people consume media is very different.
00:46:25
Rob
And um economically, there's a lot of different factors, too. So I think anybody that wants to just look at box office and try to compare it, um to previous releases of DC characters.
00:46:39
Rob
I just don't know that you can, i don't, I don't know that you can do that in in a way that if you're going to try to do that in a way that make this movie seem lesser than, um i just don't think it's a fair comparison.
00:46:52
mgttmpodcast
No, not at all. I don't think it is. um and And my number was off, so I apologize. um For Man of Steel, still, Man of Steel made a little bit more money than this one than this one did, but it's just, it's not a fair comparison. This movie was profitable.
00:47:10
mgttmpodcast
um And it had 13 million views in its first 10 days. That's A lot of views.
00:47:22
mgttmpodcast
That's insane. It's a lot of people going on watching this movie. um So this is a success. Whether or not you liked the movie, didn't like the movie, the simple fact of the matter is this is a success. And for the most part, yeah, this this movie is liked. um Do I think there are some things wrong with it?
00:47:42
mgttmpodcast
Yes. Is it a bad movie? No, absolutely not. This is good. um yeah Overall, this is a good movie. um my My issues withstanding, I can't deny my initial feeling watching this and being hooked.
00:48:01
mgttmpodcast
you know it Again, it brought it back, so I'm not going to say 25-minute chunk of the movie ruins it for me. Some movies have. This movie did not.
00:48:12
mgttmpodcast
um but this is a success and it's a great way to start. Uh, for the most part, I think, um, season two of Peacemaker has been seen as a success.
00:48:26
mgttmpodcast
I think we're going to get some pretty big reveals here in the next, I believe two episodes to finish off season two of Peacemaker. And then realistically it's, you know, what comes next? I mean,
00:48:41
mgttmpodcast
Clayface is the next thing coming out um that's going to be big picture wise. and And that's going to be interesting because, again, we're going for a shift. The Clayface is going to be a totally different shift from what Superman was. So how that movie is going to be portrayed, you know, what that's going to need to be considered successful um is going to be interesting. But I am excited for it.
00:49:06
Rob
Yeah, Clayface, B-tier Batman villain as as the next thing they're doing. It's an interesting choice.
00:49:16
mgttmpodcast
Yeah. I mean, we've certainly seen, you know, this work, you know, you mentioned guardians of the galaxy guardians of the galaxy were not a well-known property. You know, that, that was a risk and granted it's a, it's a totally different movie than what clay face is going to be. But yeah guardians of galaxy is, is a risk when Marvel allowed James gun to do that, regardless of the success that they were having.
00:49:44
mgttmpodcast
Um, You know, who who knows them? who Who really knows Guardians of the Galaxy when you were going out to the theater or this was announced? um Not saying Clayface will be that, but, you know, under the right circumstances, an unknown can become an undeniable.
00:50:07
mgttmpodcast
And, you know, that's what Guardians of the Galaxy became under James Gunn. They became an undeniable success. So, you know, it can happen.
00:50:15
Rob
And I was right there with that. When that movie got announced, I was like, what? And I'm a nerd. And I went, who? What? There's a talking raccoon and a tree that only says his name.
00:50:30
Rob
the hell is this? And I really thought in my head, this could be Marvel's first miss. Like I, I remember like really thinking like, wow, that's, that's not going to make any money.
00:50:42
Rob
Now that's made three films and probably one of the biggest rides at, at Disney world is the guardians of the galaxy ride. And it's this crazy, huge mega property now, um, that the guardians is like this major,
00:50:57
Rob
you know, factor for Marvel. um And those characters on their own are important and and people want to see more of them. um So, yeah, I think when you give the right filmmaker the right tools and the right amount of leash with the right script and the right cast,
00:51:17
Rob
ah you can do some pretty amazing things with a property that nobody's ever heard of before. and And Clayface is certainly somebody, we we know who he is. We we have an idea.
00:51:28
Rob
um there's There's some interesting things there. I mean, there was ah a bit of time where Clayface was actually ah kind of an unofficial member of the Bat family. Like he he's he's got some depth to him that with the right right voice actor, and and i you know I guess you could also do him physically as well,
00:51:47
Rob
that That could actually be really good. That could be an un an unexpected hit.
00:51:52
mgttmpodcast
Yeah, no, I think that this could be a very interesting time. um Looking forward to seeing what will come from this DCU.
00:52:03
mgttmpodcast
um Rob, any final thoughts on this movie?
00:52:07
Rob
ah A quick one. The ah the part where you actually see the monkeys typing in all the hate messages into all the social media sites, like behind the scenes that Luther's doing was was so funny to me because I actually think that's how I think that's how it works in real life. Anyways, most of the time, if you're arguing with somebody online that you don't actually know person to person, ah there's a good chance it's just a bot.
00:52:29
Rob
And I just thought that was so funny.
00:52:32
mgttmpodcast
ah Yeah, no, i'm I'm convinced that's actually how it goes.
00:52:34
Rob
I think that was real.
00:52:35
mgttmpodcast
ah um
00:52:35
Rob
I don't think that was, I don't even think that was VFX. I think that they just found where, where that farm is and they just shot it.
00:52:39
mgttmpodcast
Right.
00:52:42
Rob
I think that's real.
00:52:43
mgttmpodcast
Right. so Somebody had, like, those Amazon glasses on that film, and they, like, just spliced it into the movie.
00:52:48
Rob
Yes. Yes. I think I'm pretty sure that was real.
00:52:49
mgttmpodcast
Yeah.
00:52:52
mgttmpodcast
So, yeah, no, um I think very good first outing, ah you know, was pleasantly surprised with a with this movie and looking forward to future DCU projects. So, you know, that'll wrap up this episode here and.
00:53:13
mgttmpodcast
You know, for the rest of the month, i'm I'm hoping with it being October, my favorite genre of movies, I'm hoping to do a couple of horror reviews in here. ah Rob, we'll kind of discuss that off air if you're able to join some of those ah for some of the movies that I have picked out.
00:53:29
Rob
Oh, I have a suggestion.
00:53:29
mgttmpodcast
um and we'll Oh, go ahead. Give that right now.
00:53:33
Rob
you want You want me to just do it live? All right. So ah we've covered, I'll let you try to guess it. We've covered two thirds of it so far.
00:53:42
Rob
You got it.
00:53:42
mgttmpodcast
28 years later.
00:53:44
Rob
Nailed it.
00:53:46
mgttmpodcast
All right.
00:53:47
Rob
On Netflix right now.
00:53:48
mgttmpodcast
Well, it is on Netflix right now. It is a dong of a movie. I wait. No, I'm sorry. There's just a lot of dogs out in that movie is what I meant to say.
00:54:00
mgttmpodcast
Um,
00:54:04
mgttmpodcast
So I actually have that on the list as one of the ones that I wanted to do.
00:54:09
Rob
Ooh.
00:54:11
mgttmpodcast
um So yes, let's make that a reality. um i think that'll be a very interesting one to talk about because I know how you and I feel about the first two.
00:54:23
mgttmpodcast
um And I am going to be insanely curious how you feel about this one. um I think this one is... Much more divisive than the first two movies um in terms of what people think of it.
00:54:38
mgttmpodcast
So, yeah, that'll be the first one that we will hit for horror movies in October. So I'm glad you spoke up.
00:54:46
Rob
Can't wait.
00:54:48
mgttmpodcast
All right. Well, again, listeners, when you go into the show notes, you will find every single thing you need to contact the show, how to see our other episodes. So I want to say thank you once again for joining us.
00:55:02
mgttmpodcast
This has been Matt Goes to the Movies, and we will see you next time.