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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3
21 Plays10 days ago
EMAIL: MGTTMPODCAST@GMAIL.COM
https://linktr.ee/MattGoesToTheMovies
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Transcript
Introduction to TMNT Trilogy Review
00:00:00
Matthew Allison
everyone, welcome back. Matt goes to the movies and we are finishing up the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles original trilogy. It started with Turtles 1 and now we are here at what some people call Turtles in Time or just Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3.
Is TMNT 3 as Bad as Its Reputation?
00:00:19
Matthew Allison
The last time Rob and I talked, I... kind of made a bet that I can't imagine that this is as bad as the second movie because on a rewatch the second movie was not as fond as we remembered it but that is the question today is this movie as bad as I remember it Rob remembers it hell it's 19% on Rotten Tomatoes it's the worst reviewed one and Rob, weve we've
Could TMNT 3 Have Been Better Than TMNT 2?
00:00:48
Matthew Allison
been through a lot. We've known each other for a long time.
00:00:51
Matthew Allison
um i I don't think this is the one, but I'm here to say right off the bat, this is not worse than Turtles 2.
00:01:03
Matthew Allison
um Rewatching this and kind of going over things, I actually think there's a lot here that could have worked with a few minor tweaks. I think there's actually a really good...
00:01:17
Matthew Allison
like bones to like a house here where you could have actually made a really good movie. um Whether or not you agree, we'll see. But i this is not as, this is not as bad as I remember it. And it's, it's no less goofy. It's no less far fetched than the second one.
00:01:36
Matthew Allison
um I don't think this is as bad as everybody says this is.
Story Potential and Time Travel Inconsistencies
00:01:42
Rob
and So i I watched it and i I remember not liking this as much as the other two from when I was watching these movies all the time as a kid. i still think this is pretty bad.
00:01:55
Rob
um there's ah yeah I'll come with you and I kind of want to hear your thoughts on on where you think some of these bones are. I'll come with you on some of it. I think there was a framework that if it was better executed, largely where... And I guess I kind of stopped...
00:02:12
Rob
complaining about this movie in my head as I was watching it. When I, when I realized like this whole thing really just plays out like a 90 minute version of a really bad early episode of power Rangers. Right.
00:02:25
Rob
it's literally like a Saturday morning cartoon or like a Saturday morning cereal. That's just stretched for time and created at warp speed without any consideration for a red pen, like anywhere.
00:02:38
Rob
um That's kind of like when I, when I realized, Oh no, this isn't like the second one is bad because they tried to make it good and they failed this one. I don't know that they really tried to make a good movie necessarily. I think they just kind of like,
00:02:55
Rob
it really does feel like just a Saturday morning kid show plot that they he was like, well, let's make it, let's make it a feature film length. And when you kind of look at it that way, you take it a little less seriously.
00:03:10
Rob
And it's kind of like, there are some things about this that like as a kid made no sense to me, like the time travel thing. Like I have so many questions about how this works. Um, um, But there's there's parts of this that that
Impact of New Turtle Designs
00:03:22
Rob
are fun. There's parts of this I laughed at.
00:03:24
Rob
And there's parts of this that um direct quote, because I watched this again with my son, direct quote, I wrote it down. This is seriously the plot of this movie. um And that was his direct quote. It was right around when the time travel stuff started happening.
00:03:38
Rob
um So that's kind of that's kind of where I'm at on this.
00:03:44
Matthew Allison
Yeah, I certainly see that. And that's where I think the bones are there with the time travel, whether or not they execute it correctly.
00:03:55
Matthew Allison
But, Rob, I'm going ask you a question right off the bat. And you can think about it through the entire episode. You can give me an answer right away. And for people that have seen this movie, like, okay, think about this in your own, you know, your own terms.
00:04:12
Matthew Allison
is this movie any better at all if they don't change the Turtles' design? Because how distracting are the new suits during this movie?
00:04:25
Rob
Terrible.
00:04:26
Matthew Allison
because So, is this a better movie if they're in the original costumes? Is it not as distracting and maybe it's not as, like...
00:04:37
Matthew Allison
you don't focus on because you're focusing on a bad story and you're focusing on what the hell did they do to the design?
00:04:46
Rob
ah they They look significantly worse. Splinter looks terrible. I mean, think about how much praise we heaped on the the the character model for Splinter in the first movie. Like, you really felt... Even though we know it's a Muppet. We know it's a Muppet.
00:05:01
Rob
But, like, we still felt something seeing him hung up in the chains and the foot layer. And this one, it's just like... it's like a ah bad animatronic, like pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disney world sort of look. And actually that's probably being too generous because the pirates in that, you know, in the ride at Disney, like actually look pretty good.
00:05:21
Rob
This is way below that. um It's, it's like, yeah, you're right. the The character models are just terrible for this.
00:05:30
Matthew Allison
Well, it looks like they took the character models from not the Broadway show, but from the musical and use them in the movie.
00:05:38
Rob
Oh, Jesus. Yeah.
00:05:41
Matthew Allison
um
00:05:41
Rob
Well, and the turtle
Exploring Alternative Storylines
00:05:43
Rob
spots look like mold spores.
00:05:43
Matthew Allison
Maybe to save on money.
00:05:45
Rob
Yeah.
00:05:45
Matthew Allison
Right. it's It's a weird design choice. the ah the The beak, the upper lip on them is really awkward when it moves. Yeah. But I think this movie looks slightly better if they're in those original costumes. um Not that it changes the story, but it just changes the overall aesthetic of this movie.
00:06:04
Rob
Yeah.
00:06:09
Matthew Allison
And, you know, one thing that I will say is I do think this movie still has some... Heart's the wrong word, but there's still some good humor behind it.
00:06:20
Matthew Allison
There's still some good brother, ah you know, like brother interaction. I still feel like these guys are a team. And again, for me, I say there's a really strong base here where they could have gone back in time.
00:06:37
Matthew Allison
And going through this, I would have loved to have seen It's almost a combination of this universe and Michael Bay's first Turtles movie where Shredder was, well, before he made the change and, you know, William Sachs wasn't Shredder anymore. dave ah Who's the guy's name that plays him that's from Buffalo? I'm sorry.
00:07:01
Rob
Oh, geez.
00:07:01
Matthew Allison
And Michael Bay's, who was supposed to be Turtles, William Fichtner.
00:07:02
Rob
Um,
00:07:06
Rob
yes, yes.
00:07:06
Matthew Allison
Is his name, I believe? Yes. so Because in in that first Michael Bayes movie, he was supposed to be Shredder. um And then that got changed with script rewrites and everything.
00:07:18
Matthew Allison
But you think about that story about how he was taught as a boy under Shredder because he was like left behind in Japan. this could have been a really good story where maybe you don't go all the way back. You don't go back to what, like 1603 feudal Japan, but you could have used this as like an introduction. They don't know. Cause you never get his name that like this guy is shredder, but we know as the audience, so to speak, I think that could have been a really cool concept.
00:07:50
Matthew Allison
Um, with the time travel, maybe you start to see the origins of shredder. Um, but I don't think this is overall again. i don't think this is as terrible as it's made out to be because it's just like, it's just dumb.
00:08:08
Matthew Allison
I do like some of the characters in this movie. I do like Walker's character. I think he's dumb. I think he's funny. um
00:08:17
Rob
The dude has seriously the whitest teeth I've ever seen for a pirate.
00:08:22
Matthew Allison
Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable.
00:08:24
Rob
It's distracting.
00:08:24
Matthew Allison
Um,
00:08:25
Rob
Like it's literally that distracting.
00:08:27
Matthew Allison
But like I do like the fact, too, of like towards the end, like I wish it would have been... Again, everything could have been fleshed out more. But I like the fact that there's that thought of, well, why wouldn't we want to stay here?
00:08:42
Matthew Allison
like well We're able to just be out in public, so to speak. We're not confided to, we have to stay in this sewer, everything like that. I think there's there's good things here where you could have...
00:08:57
Matthew Allison
expanded on that or made that the movie. um And this isn't as bad. And that's what I mean by there's some good bones
Time Travel Logic Issues
00:09:05
Matthew Allison
here. I think there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good things that you could think of um that was some better direction could have made this a pretty strong movie actually.
00:09:05
Rob
e
00:09:17
Rob
So I'll take that and run for just a second because I like where you're going with this. Imagine this movie was more of a... ah you there's something in here that's never really like there's, there's a setup that's never paid off in that they they have these scrolls of the Kappa, right. And they look just like our four heroes.
00:09:37
Rob
And, and these are, there's a myth, there's a legend about these Kappa characters defeating, you know, the evil army or whatever. And it's kind of almost like, okay, have, have,
00:09:49
Rob
Have turtles traveled backwards before? Have there been other mutations? Like it kind of sets this up, but it never bothers really to pay it off. And it's kind of like, well, why did you even bother introducing that?
00:10:01
Rob
But imagine that the movie... shows us kind of the start of what would become the Foot Clan. Like that would have been cool if if they still play with the time travel and show us that and show us that maybe the title of Shredder was passed down, you know, from from person to person or, you know, from master to student or was was you had to usurp it, you know, like that would have been kind of cool to to give us that.
00:10:27
Rob
um And the idea that you were just talking about where the movie focuses more on belonging and the idea of them not having to, which by the way, they've kind of sucked at keeping themselves hidden. Like they don't even bother there in their first two movies to really hide themselves. So I'm not, I'm, I'm kind of losing where, you know, like that's even a priority for them. And it's like, Oh, we have to keep hidden. Like, dude, you don't even bother to try ninja ninja rap. Like, come on.
00:10:53
Rob
but But to your point, the whole idea of we like it better here, we feel like we can just be part of a community here, as opposed to just the four of us, our rat dad, Casey and April and Keno, I guess, is you know they They have that ability to be part of something else and the idea of not wanting to go back, but they still belong there and they have to swap back with the other four guards.
00:11:19
Rob
um it's you're You're right. I think that's a much more interesting idea that that really doesn't get fleshed out.
00:11:26
Matthew Allison
Yeah, I just, yeah you could have done that, and you could, because even them going back and switching places, again, you could say that this army is an early iteration Of the Foot Clan.
00:11:44
Matthew Allison
that he You know what I mean? like Maybe not evolved. They've kind of devolved into the first Turtles movies that we know. But ah imagine this in Japan is the original remnants. The original...
00:12:02
Matthew Allison
you know, but the original foot clan, like actual warriors with really good fighting skills that get sent to this time. You know what? Like there's a lot that you could have done there.
00:12:15
Matthew Allison
And you kind of see over time is like, you know, maybe again, you could tie this all together and I, you know, whatever I'm like, basically making my own movie here now, but you know, as things have passed on and like, as the world has evolved, it's only natural that the foot clan has deteriorated. So to speak to, they have to get kids. They have to do these things to, to get these members.
00:12:44
Matthew Allison
Um, but that could have been a really cool concept of just like, and then tie that into maybe the next movie. Cause there was supposed to be a turtles for, um,
00:12:56
Matthew Allison
And i think, you know, at the end of that animated one, TMNT, which I think is actually amazing, they make mention that Shredder is going to come back. um But man, you you really could have done something with this about...
00:13:13
Matthew Allison
you know, the, the foot clan and maybe the possibility of, you know, it's a lineage of turtles and this is you know, again, it's a turtles movie. I get it, but there's like a destiny type thing to this. I think you have what could have been a really, really good movie.
00:13:31
Matthew Allison
Now, Was that possible in 1993? Hindsight's always 2020. But that's what, ah again, that's what I mean when there's bones here. You could take a ton of these ideas and run with that.
00:13:45
Rob
Think about some of the concepts from the second movie where they were upset that they were an accident, like their creation was not supposed to happen. It was ah an industrial accident.
00:13:56
Rob
But now, again, if you're thinking back to the idea of there's these other... you know, turtle like mutant like figures that have existed before is almost though it's, it's destined that they were to be created, that that was all supposed to happen. There was something, you know, every few hundred years, these heroes emerge.
00:14:19
Rob
Imagine how much more interesting of a movie that becomes. And it kind of retcons a little bit of the second one,
Themes of Belonging and Destiny
00:14:25
Rob
but that's okay. Like I, I think that could have been a cool, addition to this um and it was to to kind of how you started it out it's uh it's a piece of an idea that just never got materialized for whatever it it kind of almost feels like okay you guys are going to come see a turtles movie so we're just going to put this out and kids are going to make their parents drag them to this um so you're just going to watch it and we don't really care
00:14:56
Matthew Allison
Right, exactly. But, you know, let's and switch here a little bit and let's talk about this movie, what this movie is a little bit more in depth. So, you know, one thing that was a bummer, um...
00:15:13
Matthew Allison
i I was a little less harsh on it this time around. ah The return of Casey Jones. um Perfect casting, by the way. When he comes on screen, and if you remember Casey Jones, you go...
00:15:28
Matthew Allison
Yeah, that's perfect casting. He looks exactly like the cartoon. Like, man, that's great. Um, I wasn't as disappointed with his, i guess, lack of participation.
00:15:41
Matthew Allison
Cause I did for what they were. I did enjoy his scenes. I thought his little camaraderie that he got with the honor guards, um, that he was basically babysitting, you know, some of that stuff I did like, I did like the hockey thing.
00:15:55
Matthew Allison
yeah, So I was a little more forgiving with his role in this movie than I remember being yeah based on my previous views and going, what the hell did you bring him back for? Rob, how did you feel this time seeing him?
00:16:09
Rob
You know, i think just because I like that character so much and I like um Elias Koteas as him so much, i was I was just happy to see him again in that role. um I thought it was fun. It made sense. Yeah.
00:16:23
Rob
I will say this, um when he's trying to play hockey with the four honor guard, it has the worst headbutt I've ever seen left in the final cut of a movie. And some of the other real issues I have with this movie are around the fights and the action scenes.
00:16:40
Rob
They are unspeakably bad at times. But just having him back, there was a there was an there's a a little bit of fun that that allowed because you kind of have to do something with those four guys.
00:16:52
Rob
You can't just leave them with splinter. Like there's not, there's not really anything fun there you can do. So having them show them around New York was, was really a lot of fun and having like, you know, I'd kind of forgotten about the song Tarzan boy.
00:17:04
Rob
Had you forgotten about Tarzan boy? And what, what a fun throwback to the early nineties that was.
00:17:08
Matthew Allison
Yeah. that was definitely that That was definitely fun. Again, even in the beginning, um like the kind of opening when April comes down and she's, you know, kind of passing out gifts and stuff, like little subtle things I thought were actually pretty fun. Like when she's like, this is for Mikey. He's like, yes.
00:17:29
Matthew Allison
And then he pulls out the lampshade and he's just like, what is this? Like, it's stupid, but I'm like, this isn To me, that's no dumber than their banter in the second movie or things that they did in the second movie. um ah So there's things about this, like I said, like yeah, I think there's fun to be had here.
00:17:54
Matthew Allison
um It's just unfortunate that ah it does feel like this might have been they had a couple of different rights from this. And it's some points.
00:18:08
Matthew Allison
It feels like pages from each script got knocked on the ground and then shuffled together. Like script one, script two, script three got dropped.
00:18:20
Matthew Allison
And, And then they just combine the pages and didn't bother to go, ah well, hang on. This was from um like these pages are from a movie that we envisioned, but now they're in this movie and they don't mesh together because there are times that feel like this is two different movies.
Could a Darker Tone Work for TMNT?
00:18:41
Rob
Yeah. um i I feel like if they would have slowed down to just really clearly define this time travel thing, because anytime you introduce the concept of time travel, one of the biggest problems is how do you deal with the inevitable paradox conversation?
00:19:00
Rob
Like what are the rules of time travel? And I think, i may Maybe this is just a me thing, but I do kind of get distracted anytime there's time travel in a movie trying to figure out, like, how does this work? What are the rules?
00:19:11
Rob
Or is this just one of those things? Like, I guess it's in the second Austin Powers movie where Basil just almost kind of looks at the screen and tells the viewer, just try not to think too hard about it, right? Like, I think maybe sometimes I just need to do that. But that was...
00:19:25
Rob
that was one of the things, even as a kid, that I sort of wished this movie would have defined a little better or or tried to at least help us understand.
00:19:36
Rob
um Like, just even something as simple as, like, When, uh, when April's like hanging onto the scepter and she's like, I don't know what it's doing. Like, she's just kind of like holding it.
00:19:47
Rob
Like, why wouldn't she have just set it down? I don't know. like Hey, this thing's going crazy.
00:19:49
Matthew Allison
Yeah, yeah you could you could let it go.
00:19:52
Rob
I'm just going to keep hanging onto it. But she's like, yeah, whatever. But when they swap back and forth, um, She keeps her Walkman, but was wearing his clothes. He keeps his sword, but is now wearing her clothes. Good thing they wear the exact same size, I suppose.
00:20:08
Rob
um Like that, that part like kind of doesn't make sense. And then like, yeah, Like, does it just take random points of history or is it literally any time in history, four people are touching the scepter at the same time, they could potentially swap or anytime there's one person touching it. Like, why did it choose that moment and not 10 seconds earlier when she was walking around? Like, I just, I have so many questions about how the time travel thing works that it's just really like,
00:20:35
Rob
I don't know. it It never feels like they bother to kind of define it. And to me, I think that's a little distracting, but I don't know. I did. Or did you, did you think about any of this? Did this bother you? Or is this just a me thing? And it's just a weird kind of like, I should just get over it.
00:20:50
Matthew Allison
No, I mean, look, I think there's there's definitely some questions there about, yeah, so... you're telling me that, and again, you don't need all this backstory, I'm sure, but this scepter has been sitting in this antique store.
00:21:07
Matthew Allison
At no point did somebody in the antique store pick this thing up, look at it, and one of the honor guards or one of, um you know, like somebody else was holding it, they were moving it, um...
00:21:18
Rob
I think
00:21:23
Matthew Allison
Because it's at one point, though, um the... I don't know what you call him like in in history, but the the lead guy um of the...
00:21:35
Rob
they call him a daimyo.
00:21:36
Matthew Allison
of the set of this Yeah, the Daimyo. You know, he does say, like, oh, my guards were bringing back. So I believe that village originally had it.
00:21:48
Matthew Allison
So what did they do with it? Did they just keep it in, like... Do they keep it in a case? Do they keep it hidden? Like, what... How did nobody touch this just repeatedly, time after time after time? Um...
00:22:04
Matthew Allison
You know, the the Travelers have to have the same weight. I thought they did a good enough job with the actor where it was believable that him and April are... I mean, they they honestly do look about the same size.
00:22:16
Matthew Allison
Like, they they they really do.
00:22:17
Rob
Yeah.
00:22:19
Matthew Allison
um Now again, like, why does she keep her physical object and he keeps his physical object? um I guess that makes sense. Like, I guess that does kind of make sense, but...
00:22:32
Matthew Allison
um it's not so more to me that it was the, okay, these, the guys are like able to just travel. It was the fact of, so yeah, like based on the rules there, people should just be swapping back and forth.
00:22:51
Matthew Allison
And how did anybody ever figure this out? How did anybody figure that this was, a time travel device. And again, that's where I think like you could have sat there and was there history with the turtles going back in time or what, you know what I mean? Like there's just a lot there that seems like it could have been explored.
00:23:15
Rob
And and it because it's never really defined, that's what kind of like leads me to my earlier point about this. It just really feels like a Saturday morning kind of plot that got stretched into a movie. Because if you're if you're just watching a cartoon or you're watching like...
00:23:32
Rob
you know, a Power Rangers type show. Like you don't really care about that. But when you're, I feel like when you're presenting that in a film, in a feature film that you're going to buy a ticket for and you're going to eat popcorn and you're going to make plans to go to a movie theater to watch this, like you kind of have a little bit higher...
00:23:50
Rob
level of expectation that things are going to make sense. That things are going to be explained in a way that you go, oh, okay. Yeah, I can see that. When you're just, when you're just watching something at home again on a Saturday morning, you don't really care that much. Just show me the action.
00:24:05
Rob
Like just, okay, give me the plot pieces. They're going to lead us to the action scenes and then we'll move on. Like, that's okay. That's all I'm here for. So I think maybe that's where my critique of the way that time travel is presented here.
00:24:18
Rob
I think that's where it comes from. I guess if that makes sense.
00:24:22
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, absolutely. um And, you know, I think one of the other things that's kind of good here is, and again, it's not explored, but this could have been maybe more so in tone with the...
00:24:40
Matthew Allison
darker version of the first movie is the fact that, you know, there's the one scene where, uh, Raf standing there and Yoshi's son's running around with some of the other kids.
00:24:52
Matthew Allison
And he's like, what are you doing? he's like, Oh, I'm practicing to fight the daimyo and things like that. There's another interesting plot point where it's like, okay the tur and And they kind of touch on it where they sit there and go, oh, if we didn't have the scepter, we'd have no choice but to stay and fight. And it's like, boy, there could have been more to that. And the level of, in that environment, like this kid who, what, is probably six, seven years old, you know, is is in this village and in this era where...
00:25:29
Matthew Allison
he thinks that he has to fight. Like, again, there's just, there's some things there
Critique of Action Scenes
00:25:34
Matthew Allison
where you could have went with a darker tone for this movie.
00:25:34
Rob
Yeah.
00:25:38
Matthew Allison
um Now, again, i think that's just, you know, that's obviously after the first one and they got so much feedback about it being too dark. They certainly probably weren't going to go back there again.
00:25:50
Matthew Allison
But part of me thinks about could you do a potential movie like this in this time when we know darker plots more, you know,
00:26:01
Matthew Allison
tone violence things like that can work and can bring in big box office um you know you you think about what everybody would kind of like to see now in a turtles movie or like there's been so much talk about a turtles video game that they would like to see like a turtles game almost in like an arkham knight style or you know translating the last ronin to the big screen um you know Think about sort of maybe ah that kind of tone in this movie.
00:26:33
Rob
ah That could be kind of cool. um and And the concept that you were getting at where even at from an early age, the six-year-old boy is growing up believing that he has to learn to fight that violence is the only way to protect himself. And that's, he's just, you know, born into it that way.
00:26:54
Rob
It's just what he knows. It's not like he even sees that as a corruption of his youth and of his childhood because he doesn't know anything else. Sure. There could have been something kind of cool with that.
00:27:05
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, I think that was definitely, you know, ah something that we could have gone with. um But there isn't a lot. I haven't really seen a ton, though, to say how this movie turned out the way it did. Like, what caused them...
00:27:28
Matthew Allison
to go with this. I mean, obviously this was not well received. It's the lowest grossing one. It's the worst reviewed one. um One review even said that parents have to come up with new ways to stay awake because this will bore them um like taking their kids.
00:27:41
Rob
Mm-hmm.
00:27:43
Matthew Allison
um But again, i just,
00:27:48
Matthew Allison
Maybe it's just, again, I accept it more for what it's it is and watching the second one so close to this one. You know, there's... To me, there's not as big of a gap between the second and the third one as there was before.
00:28:07
Rob
um I think that's partly because in my mind and I'll come, I'll agree with that 100%, but I think that's because the second one moved so far down in my mind, not necessarily that I think I moved the third one up any, i think I just moved the second one down so much, but I'm still kind of ranking them in my head. Kind of, kind of similarly.
00:28:27
Rob
um I want to kind of get into really some of the, other than just sort of the, the goofy, silly tone that doesn't play well at times, um, But so other than that, one of one of my real issues with this is the action scenes.
00:28:43
Rob
They are terrible. The worst of the series. even from the opening fight. So there's ah the, the opening fight is in Japan and they have this sword fight with that's on that takes place on horseback primarily.
00:28:57
Rob
And it is beyond terrible. It literally looks like kids playing in their backyard. Like that's, that's what it looks like. They filmed just a bunch of kids running around their backyard, playing Ninja turtles with nerf swords or plastic or whatever it is.
00:29:11
Rob
And that's what it looks like. And it is so bad. um There's another one, at the river uh when they when the villagers kind of uh surround the turtles it has some of the most rubbery sticks i've ever seen used in in a feature film half the parries happen before the attacks even launch i mean they're just like it's it's really it's really bad um but you
00:29:26
Matthew Allison
Mm-hmm.
00:29:40
Matthew Allison
That's one thing really quick I will say i totally agree with you on because I didn't think you could get worse than the second one compared from going to the first to the second.
00:29:51
Matthew Allison
But that is one thing that I will say took a major leap from the second one is i don't know how they managed to make the fights worse than in two.
00:30:03
Rob
Yeah. um And there's so many things in the action scenes, like particularly climactic moments that just make absolutely no sense. So they do the the reoccurring wet Willie gag on Niles and they wait to like wet William until just the perfect moment towards the end to make him misfire to knock off, just knock off the captain's hat before he shoots Mikey. Yeah.
00:30:27
Rob
I mean, this is unspeakably dumb.
00:30:27
Matthew Allison
Mm-hmm.
00:30:31
Rob
ah Like that part of it is beyond bad. There's a scene later on. on the beach where, um, Walker has the cannon that he's testing and, uh, he fires it at a target and it's one cannon, one cannon fired a single shot.
00:30:46
Rob
And somehow it chain fires across multiple targets from one shot, all center body mass. Um, that was terrible. And there's this, then we get to the climax and Walker's got the cannon again.
00:31:04
Rob
he, The cannon misses and everybody, all the bad guys who have guns and were just previously trying to attack the turtles.
00:31:11
Matthew Allison
Yes.
00:31:15
Rob
They all decide because the cannon missed, they were going to stop doing everything they had been previously doing and all just run away. And it's, it makes no sense at all. It is so stupid. it There's no justification for why it's happening.
00:31:32
Rob
um This is, and this is right before Walker. So remember in the first one, we talked about how great it was that shredder falls off the, off the building, but then gets like squished. And you don't normally see that because normally it's the Disney villain, you know, falling off the the cliff and into the water.
00:31:42
Matthew Allison
Yeah.
00:31:48
Rob
Well, this time we get.
00:31:48
Matthew Allison
This is a Robocop out the window-like fall, but without the coolness of him getting blown to bits, but, like, just the the green screen, blue screen, whatever it is.
00:31:51
Rob
Oh, it's. It's.
00:32:00
Matthew Allison
Like, he doesn't even splash into the water when you watch it.
00:32:02
Rob
There's no splash!
00:32:04
Matthew Allison
Like, he literally just...
00:32:04
Rob
There's no splash!
00:32:06
Matthew Allison
He like transforms into the water. Like, and that's one of the other things too, is there's a couple of shots where like they show like horses riding or like the background. And it's like, this is a painting.
00:32:19
Matthew Allison
This is not, this is like not even CGI at the time. This is not a real landscape. Like this is a legit painting. Like, holy cow.
00:32:30
Rob
Yeah, there's there's definitely, like, when you when you see the action scenes, which, if you're watching a Ninja Turtles movie, there's really like there's really two things I want out of a Ninja Turtles movie.
00:32:43
Rob
I want there to be fun moments with the guys kind of screwing around, just having fun, you know, getting on each other a little bit. But mostly during the the fights, I want them to be like...
00:32:54
Rob
I want it to be kind of fun and different. I don't want it to be like, you know, John Wick style serious. I want it to be like, you know, kind of goofy and kind of silly, and but, but I want it. I want the fights to work.
00:33:05
Rob
I want it to be fun and I want the fights to be good. Those are the things I want most from any kind of Ninja Turtles, be it a video game, be it a movie, be it, you know, the old cartoons from the eighties and nineties. Like that's what I want from it.
00:33:18
Rob
And this movie, when it comes to the action scenes, it's, it's it's an unequivocable failure.
Appreciating Performances and Humor
00:33:26
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, 100%. um You know, and there's not a lot, but there's enough action scenes where you go, oh God, you're reminding me of this again.
00:33:39
Rob
Yeah.
00:33:39
Matthew Allison
Like, don't put this in here, please, for the love of God. um So, yeah, that's that's a huge step back. um Again, the turtle design ah design of Splinter, that's a huge step back.
00:33:54
Matthew Allison
Yeah. So there's definitely some some things that are glaring, glaring issues with this movie. um But the one thing that I will say one more like one more time is i do like most of the human... like Kind of some of the human performances. Again, I do like Walker's performance. He's kind of like...
00:34:23
Matthew Allison
you know he's this ignorant buffoon. um I do like to like, there's a, there's some levity in it. And when the, ah when the April 1st goes back and he's standing there and they're like, you know, and his, ah oh God, what's, what's his guy's name again?
00:34:41
Matthew Allison
They always gets the wet willies Niles and Niles asked him like, so what's going on?
00:34:43
Rob
Niles. Yeah.
00:34:47
Matthew Allison
And he's like, ignorant buffoon like buffoons or whatever he goes, and he's like, we was just wondering. Like, I actually get a genuine, like, I got a genuine, like, oh, that's actually kind of funny.
00:34:59
Matthew Allison
Like, he's like, not you nitwit.
00:35:00
Rob
yeah
00:35:01
Matthew Allison
Like, I'm like, okay, there's actually some okay humor like there's some okay humor in this in his over the top um when he's like the daimyo thinks you're a witch is this true and she's like yeah i shrunk four guys and i locked him in there and he's like done shrink me witch i'm like that's actually kind of funny like because it's it's so over the top that i'm like no it kind of works um so yeah some of the performances though i do think it works um
00:35:28
Rob
that That does work.
00:35:31
Rob
But the the one thing that I'll ask you, though, is you think about like Walker's character and how serious he is and how. he's he's a bad dude, right? Like there's no part of him that seems like there's anything really redeeming to him.
00:35:48
Rob
And then you look at like the character of Niles and pretty much the rest of the pirate crew, right? Like with the guy that's the, the, um you know, that's played the same as Casey, but that, that it's the same actor.
00:36:02
Rob
Like he seems like he's possibly, ah he's possibly with it and possibly also able to be a really bad dude um before he redeems himself later. Yeah. But Niles and the rest of the crew seem like so cartoonishly buffoons that it almost feels like they're like, i don't know. There's something about that. It that seems like they're so ah far apart from one another.
00:36:27
Rob
Like it's, it's almost like, how does, how does Walker bring along someone this dumb, like this absolutely like, like this kind of babbling idiot. Like I'm trying to think of ah of another example where the, like your, your big bad,
00:36:39
Matthew Allison
It's probably because he doesn't have to really pay him. Like, my my assumption is he just gets these guys because they are idiots and, you know, they say there's strength in numbers, so, and especially with guns, if people are using swords, it's like, well, they can be idiots and still just shoot somebody if they need to.
00:36:43
Rob
Yeah.
00:36:58
Rob
yeah
00:36:58
Matthew Allison
um
00:37:00
Matthew Allison
But, you know, watching this movie today, too, tell me that this, that that guy is not just... the base mold for how they made Gibbs in Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:37:16
Rob
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:37:20
Matthew Allison
Like, he, that character, is Gibbs.
00:37:25
Rob
Gibbs has got he's he's fun, though, like he's kind of got he's a pirate, but he also.
00:37:29
Matthew Allison
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:33
Rob
He's still a light like he's he's likable in his own way.
00:37:38
Matthew Allison
Yeah, he's he's likable. he's not this like He's not this bad, but it's like, man, there was there was like the outline.
00:37:46
Rob
Yeah.
00:37:46
Matthew Allison
And they said, let's just let's not make him as dumb, but that's the outline for what we want for this character. like for this character
00:37:53
Rob
Oh, yeah, I see that.
00:37:56
Matthew Allison
So, um you know, I do think, too, you know, part of, obviously, the Warring Clans and things like that, um you know, they take things that were real, um and they have them in this movie. But again, that's where I say there's just, it's a couple of different movies trying to be meshed together with what could be some serious tones about kids having to fight, families being at war.
00:38:24
Matthew Allison
um You know, um
00:38:28
Rob
where you belong, finding a place to belong.
00:38:28
Matthew Allison
ah
00:38:30
Rob
Yeah.
00:38:31
Matthew Allison
right. So it's just like, there's definitely some points here where you go, yeah maybe you shouldve just like you should have just stuck with maybe just being all campy and, you know, almost like just Batman and Robin did.
00:38:51
Matthew Allison
Maybe it would make it a little bit more bearable if it was all just one tone throughout.
00:38:57
Rob
Yeah. And if it wasn't kind of like, we didn't have that first one that really set the example of what this world was. And then this was just like, I'm sorry, what? Like, and and it almost is kind of funny that they bring Casey back because you almost like without him, this movie feels not at all connected to the first movie.
00:39:18
Rob
And I've kind of always felt that way that without Casey in the first and the third movies, they don't feel like they belong in the same universe.
00:39:18
Matthew Allison
right
00:39:26
Matthew Allison
it Well, it doesn't even feel connected to the second movie. Like, it you know, it it doesn't feel, yeah, it doesn't feel like it's part of the first two. It it feels like it really is almost a standalone thing.
00:39:41
Rob
and And like part of it is one of the first things that you said is that the turtles themselves look so different. Like, and, and that's, and that kind of almost breaks this thing off into like its own
Turtles Trilogy Legacy and Conclusion
00:39:52
Rob
thing. Cause in the first two, they looked, they looked close enough that you like, you, you just accepted that it's all the same, but this one, God, they just look so different that it's it immediately makes you think that this is like a standalone. Like it's, it doesn't exist in the same universe.
00:40:07
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, I totally agree. So, you know, ah Rob, we have ah a little bit um difference of how bad it is, but I do think we both agree that It's the gap isn't as far as we thought it was now the gap between one and two into it like is definitely um but i I think we're in agreement with the fact that three is not as far off from two is what I originally thought when we were going to watch these movies.
00:40:40
Rob
Did not have that on my 2025 bingo card for what it's worth.
00:40:44
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no. um
00:40:46
Rob
yeah
00:40:46
Matthew Allison
So, you know, be that as it may, um just a couple of things just to, you know, cap that off again, worst reviewed movie for the franchise, 19% on Rotten Tomatoes, lowest box office. um I mean, it still made a profit. It was $21 budget and it made um So there were still things there that, you know, it made money, but this really did kill the franchise. um This came out in 1993, and this movie did so bad that we did not get another film until 2007, which was TMNT, the animated movie, which when I first watched that,
00:41:32
Matthew Allison
I was not a fan. And then years later, going back, um I really grew to actually like that movie a lot. I actually thought that was very well done.
00:41:42
Matthew Allison
um But yeah, this this movie really just kind of like stopped this franchise in its tracks.
00:41:51
Rob
Which is a shame because like what was bigger in the late 80s and early 90s than Ninja Turtles? Like what was bigger than this in pop culture?
00:41:58
Matthew Allison
Right.
00:41:59
Rob
Like at all? Like nothing. Nothing was bigger than the Turtles.
00:42:04
Matthew Allison
So, you know, that's that's what will happen, but, um you know, who knows? um Hopefully something, i do hope we get something. I mean, I'm really hoping for the game, because that's been rumored for a while that we but we're going to get four-player co-op Turtles game more in style with... um you know, like a Batman Arkham series.
00:42:28
Matthew Allison
I did hear the last time I heard anything about that. It was going to be made by Warner Brothers Montreal who made Gotham Knights, which I think it's a little bit too much hate. I think if you play it outside of the realm of thinking about Arkham, like, you know, Arkham Knight and those other games, I do think there's a lot of fun to be had there. And I i think a turtle style game in ah and that four player co-op could actually be really fun.
00:42:54
Rob
especially if they allow couch co-op, because that's that's something that modern games just seems to forget about. If you give me, with couch co-op, four player, up to four players, can they can do like ah ah more evolved beat-em-up style. But yeah, if it's like if it's got some combos and the ability to use some like different, like each turtle has kind of ah an ability or a different kind of thing that they do, um yeah, i could I could definitely see that being something I'm a day one purchaser of.
00:43:24
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, I certainly would enjoy that. So, Rob, any final thought on Turtles here?
00:43:31
Rob
ah Final thoughts. No. um i think I've said everything I need to say about this.
00:43:38
Matthew Allison
Yeah, um so it was fun going back, re-watching these, regardless of whether or not they were good, whether or not they were bad. it was fun to actually kind of watch these with a new insight into them. But next coming up is, this will be a second watch for me, but a first watch for Rob.
00:43:57
Matthew Allison
um We will be sitting down watching Superman, which has dropped on HBO Max. And we will be talking about that movie.
00:44:07
Matthew Allison
lot of thoughts. I'm very interested to go back, watch this on a second view. um Because i something that I did enjoy when I went and saw it, I did have some more thoughts as I got home from seeing it. Kind of like...
00:44:25
Matthew Allison
reanalyzing some of it so i'm going to be interested to see it again see how i feel get rob's you know first time reaction to to seeing this movie um and going from there so superman will be the next thing that we are going to be reviewing on this show which should be very fun
00:44:46
Rob
I'm looking forward to it. i'm I'm actually looking forward to an excuse to like force myself to watch this because I've wanted to see it. I'm interested in what James Gunn is doing. let's Let's see what kind of happens. um It's a disappointment that the last connected DC universe...
00:45:03
Rob
didn't end better and didn't have more entries that we celebrate the way that I think we were hoping we would when that thing really got going for a variety of different reasons. um So let's see if this entry kickstarts something that we can get excited about.
00:45:20
Matthew Allison
Yeah, no, absolutely. I'll be very interested in your thoughts. So listen, thank you for listening. Everything that you need to contact the show, interact, is all in the notes for this episode. Make sure you can email, go on Facebook, go on Instagram, go on YouTube.
00:45:38
Matthew Allison
Everything will be right here in the episode description. Once again, thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll catch you next time at Matt Goes to the Movies.