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"Rookies:" Reheating Episode 1 (Part 1)
917 Plays4 months ago
Thank you for listening! Since Rookie Season can be found wherever you listen to podcasts.
*We're aware of some audio quality issues--one of our hosts was moving and another one is naturally loud. We're working on finding a balance. Thank you! There's also 5 minutes of random silence after the credits--feel free to skip!*
Follow us on our socials!
X: @srspod
Threads and Instagram: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
Sources
"booktok, brainrot, and why it’s ok to be a hater” alisha not alihsha
@valentinavee “I guess I’m still at the cottage?”
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Transcript
Introduction to Sid's Rookie Season
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Sid's Rookie Season. Well, the summer before. A heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from Crave Canada's television series, The Game Changers Novels, and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon.
00:00:18
Speaker
Today we're going to delve into episode one, Rookies, so stay tuned for more Shane and Ilya first encounters, how on-screen intimacy sets the plot and the characters' vibes, and even a real hockey segment.
00:00:42
Speaker
Okay, so first up, it's our first episode. We should probably introduce ourselves a bit. We have our descriptions all over and in the description of the podcast. But yeah, first, who are we and how we were introduced introduced to this show, how we met, and how our
Hosts' Introductions and Backgrounds
00:00:57
Speaker
episodes are going go. So I can start.
00:00:59
Speaker
um My name is Amanda. I use they, them pronouns. I was introduced to the show by the timeline and by a lot of my other friends. fandom friends that I share fandoms with were talking about this and it looked really good and I was like queer media hell yeah so i I already have HBO Max so I started streaming it from the second episode and immediately I was like oh this this is important this is gonna be really good this is gonna be a hit the it's shot really well like just the the yearning of it all and so I picked up the books I've been making my way through the novels I just finished Common Goal last night as of recording this so I'll be finishing up the whole series soon and yeah and then I will let my other two co-hosts explain how we met because I have met both of my these friends separately and they both know me separately so I'll let them talk about how we met
00:01:46
Speaker
Okay, so I can go next. I'm Lau, I'm joining ah y'all from Bogota, Colombia. And I know Amanda from the Percy Jackson fandom.
00:01:57
Speaker
We're on the same Patreon discourse server for our friends at SeaWorldPrain podcast. um And we have been together at a book club a couple of times. So that's how we met.
00:02:13
Speaker
And I know Lauren through Amanda. I got introduced to Hitted Rivalry through the timeline as well. I follow queer shows and queer media. So that was on my list. And then we have a friend. um And then I have a friend who was very insistent that we watch it together, that we talk about it. So um shout out to Kaylee, who I know is listening.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, Kaylee started the idea when we made a channel, we were like, oh, should someone make a podcast about this? Maybe we should. um Kaylee made a new channel in our separate heated rivalry server and named it um Welcome to the Pottage or Going to the Pottage or something. And now in my head, yeah, Going to the Pottage. And so when I was like writing down like different like podcast ideas, I kept labeling stuff like Pottage or like whatever. So in my head, been calling this the Pottage.
00:03:06
Speaker
I'm Lauren. I use they, them pronouns. I met Amanda while I was working on my PhD at the University of Central Florida. I am kind of coming to this as not only a huge fan of romance novels, but also as an academic and a person who's and also does a heavy, heavy look at how fans interact with fan objects and the things that they love. So I've always wanted to do a podcast, especially on something that has like a really involved and really well-loved fandom. And so Amanda kind of like reached out to me over winter break and was like, hey, do you want to do a podcast on heated rivalry? And I was like, no, like literally and exactly like, shut up. I will do this. I will.
00:03:52
Speaker
Amanda and I have met in IRL, um and they are
Fanfiction and Hockey Romance
00:03:56
Speaker
one of my best friends. We have matching um little oh yeah ginkgo biloba tattoos, which are very cute. Many many a year have known Amanda. How I got into heated rivalry is kind of a very long, convoluted story, but I've always been involved in fandom, and actually... In like 2021, I found this fic on Archive of Our Own under the... it's ah It's a serious Black Remus Lupin from Harry Potter. It's a hockey A.U. It's very popular the Phantom. And I fell in love with hockey. I mean, I grew up, the Blackhawks were, the Chicago Blackhawks were like the closest hockey team to me. So I watched them kind of growing up, but I wasn't like super involved in hockey. But that fic like launched me into the stratosphere of everything hockey. And i started reading like everything hockey romance that I could get my little like grubby hands on. At the same time, I had friends who were dating players of the local ECHL team in Florida so I like went to a karaoke bar with them once which was insane and came back to Chicago ended up getting even further into hockey and probably read Heated Rivalry for the first time in like 2021
00:05:27
Speaker
or I think and actually was not on my radar until I saw something on a timeline like over the summer and it was like stills from the episodes and it was like first look at heated rivalry the gay hockey show and then it like kind of fell off again i didn't really think about it because I'm probably gonna hate for this but heated rivalry is not one of my favorite mm hockey romances and so I didn't really care kind of what happened and then I watched the show and then I was like oh no I'm I fear I am obsessed so that is kind of the very long convoluted story of how I got here
00:06:04
Speaker
I guess I'll throw out there as well, since I will say that um y'all, my my very close friends here, are very much more qualified than me, I'll say. like they're Well, no, I think um y'all like have your PhDs and stuff, and I'm coming this from a different angle, and y'all have like done such serious analysis of different medias and different things, and I...
00:06:24
Speaker
I have a bit of, I've just read a bit of like feminist theory and I have like, I have a sociology degree, which isn't to discount me, but I feel like y'all ah really thrive in this kind of environment and level of analysis. And so I'm really excited to see what y'all have to say and to get into it and see what y'all pick up on that maybe I don't, or like whatever dumb shit comes out of my mouth that you can help frame in a more like literary kind of sense, if that connects.
00:06:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, Amanda is going to be like, Amanda's going to be, we're calling you like our mediator. Like, to be the person that's hey, I actually don't understand what theory you guys are talking about. Can you please dumb it down for me and all of the people listening? Right. And I think that's so important. I think that sometimes academics, we enter, and I know Lauren agrees, we enter this code.
00:07:16
Speaker
where we're saying a lot of words. Yes, that don't make sense to people outside of equity. And also, that can blindside us to a lot of things that we're, like, we're dissecting everything so much that sometimes we're going to miss things that you, Amanda, are going to be more um aware of. So that's that's why I love this combination that we have here, like,
00:07:43
Speaker
we can ah bring a lot to the table, each one of us, PhD or not. Yeah, exactly. No, i always say like, ph people with PhDs are really smart about a really small subset of things. And then we're really dumb about like everything else. I, yeah, like, so I'm very excited. And one thing that I've always like tried to do is make my academics like accessible to people in any way, shape and form that I can do that. So I'm really excited about this like opportunity.
00:08:19
Speaker
And now that you mentioned accessibility, we just wanted to tell everyone that we will try our best to meet our access needs. So if there's anything we're forgetting, you can feel free to let us know through our socials or email address that is going to be on the description of this episode.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yes, for sure. no Accessibility isn't is so important to us. Please hold us to that Anything we say or do, please hold us to. Yeah, a exactly. Exactly. So maybe we should get into like an outcome our episode of like kind of how we'll go about these. um I know Lauren has ah a disclaimer that we're going to go over, but we're going to do obviously have like a whole body discussion of the the episode. It's of the, you know, Heat a Robbery show itself. Lauren's going to have a section to talk about actual hockey stuff.
00:09:07
Speaker
um We do have like a ah thesis question that we're following. um We have some different things that we'll be tracking like um how many times Ilya calls Shane boring and how many foot touches and the timeline and technology. We have so many things that we're excited excited to talk about. But Lauren, do you want to start with our disclaimer and our like thesis question?
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So i I guess we'll start with kind of like our overarching idea of this podcast. So obviously, like Amanda just said, we're going to be doing episode breakdowns, we're going to do book breakdowns. And we're going to look at the media kind of surrounding all of this. But the important thing to note is that this is not going to be your like run of the mill reaction podcast.
00:09:49
Speaker
We're all kind of trained to do some kind of analysis form. And so that's basically what this podcast is going to be looking at is it's going to be a form of analysis. of kind of this entire genre and etc we're also going to be critiquing the thing and I know we all want to be like oh my gosh please don't mess with my like my love my fandom object don't say anything mean or bad about it but we all recognize that like criticism is very important it helps us become better like intellectuals it helps us become better people and especially in eras of fascism like we are seeing right now criticism of media of the things that we are consuming daily even hourly or to the minute is really important and it's a skill that we all should like strive for, we all should learn how to do and like learn how to dissect the media that we are consuming, that we are engaging with, and learn how to talk about them with other people. So we will be talking about things like racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, all of those isms that are kind of like the bad parts of the world, the things that we usually stare stray away from.
00:11:10
Speaker
We'll be getting political. This is not a bad thing. It is just a way for us to analyze the things that we love. And we'll also still be very feral on the mics talking about... very good iss I know if you've seen my notes, but I think I have butts written down like 300 times. Please. A combination of both.
00:11:33
Speaker
Butts are important. Exactly. We also got to talk about which butts are being represented on this TV show and which butts aren't. exactly is ah so that is our little disclaimer we are not trying to make you hate this show huh all of that disclaimer aside we are kind of using like a guiding question to like make us think about this first season of heated rivalry this is first season of our pod um and it's this idea of like
00:12:06
Speaker
what makes this so addictive? Like what is in this story and the way that it was given to us that allows us to be this obsessed with this, like doing this many reheats, this many rewatches of it, just flooding the timeline with this much serotonin, like what is making it so addictive? And so we hope to kind of like touch on that in all of our episodes as we work through this season.
00:12:32
Speaker
So I have a question for you, Amanda and manan Lauren, but also for our listeners. Please leave us comments on our socials and answer this. Previous to this podcast, because I know we rewatched the first episode to take notes, right? But how many times did you watch episode one before we this we started working on this?
00:12:54
Speaker
I think for me at least two to three. the second one was definitely after HBO corrected their light issue, which they fixed after a few episodes. But yes, I i had watched the first few episodes with the light issue then I went back to watch it again. And then I was introducing my friends to it and I was like, no, you have to watch this so I can talk about it. And so then that was my third grade rewatch was binging it with them.
00:13:15
Speaker
I think I'm on like my seventh or eighth rewatch of the whole series. No! I cannot! Listen. I've been moving. I've been... Amanda's starting a whole new job. yeah i can't wait guess We get it. Literally, I was talking about this on threads the other day. I didn't plan my syllabus over winter break because I was too obsessed with watching Heated Rivalry.
00:13:43
Speaker
Like, I'm scrambling, because it's my first week of class, like, I'm scrambling to get stuff out because I didn't it over the break. It was our break. We work our ass out for it this class as we teach, Lauren. We deserved a break focused on heated rivalry. No, and, like, crazy because, like, all I did over this break was focus on heated rivalry. The other thing is I'm working on an article that's, like, looking at black... fan responses to Love Island from this summer on threads so I felt like all I did was be on threads for like eight hours to a point that I was like okay my new year's resolution is to not be on threads as much anymore like I have a limit because I was on it too much over break
00:14:33
Speaker
And we put it in charge. We put Lauren in charge of our friends. So I actually have been really good. I've been really good. Okay. I have my limit. I am proud of you. i am pro Thank you. Thank you. It's been difficult.
00:14:47
Speaker
Wait, Lau, how many... So, I don't know. You know that I'm not good with numbers. um More than four times, I guess. I also could have been working on my zombie seminar that I will start teaching very soon.
00:15:02
Speaker
i was in Hitted Rivalry and Percy Jackson mode. No much time for, you know... planning classes being an adult. Real. Yeah. But i'm ah i' ah I'm a serial re-watcher. I think I... Yeah, that's so fair.
00:15:16
Speaker
The Weekend Hard Stopper came in on Netflix. I watched it five times in three days. No, okay. So like, I feel like I'm also a serial rewatcher like so much stuff. Like my favorite MM hockey romance book, it's called The Rest of the Story by Tal Bauer. I've reread that book like 300 times. It gives me like such a boost of serotonin every time I read it. It is like those books like make me cry. Like I am into like a book and I know we'll talk about this. I'm sure at some point about ah my thoughts on like book talk books and like how heated rivalry even fits into that because i have thoughts, obviously. But that book I've reread like probably
00:16:02
Speaker
Probably like 20 times at least. And so I'm like a serial rewatcher. Like i rewatch Avatar the Last Airbender. i rewatch Lord the Rings like once upon the whole extended editions because I love Lord of the Rings. Oh yeah, sure. yeah Anyways, let's get into... Okay, so our main segment is going to be breaking down the episode. We have, like, main highlights of time, of, like, specific scenes and things that we want to point out. So, yeah, let's get into it. And we're going to start... with December 2008, the International Prospect Cup. This is also actually known as the World Juniors, and the World Juniors just ended. Sweden won gold for the first time in a while, which was like crazy, because the USA got knocked out. They got fourth place.
00:16:54
Speaker
No, they got fifth place, I think. And Canada only got up to third, which is like kind of crazy because One of the kids on Canada, his name's Gavin McKenna. He is like a generational talent and he's having like a really good year. And the fact that they didn't get a gold is insane. So December 2008, International Prospect Cup, Regina, Saskatchewan. Let's talk about it When we see these big timeline things, we want to talk about um either big moments in history, big moments in queer history, and like where we were personally in our lives at this time to kind of see where the parallels and how this falls out. Because Shane and Ilya's love story or like this whole story is told over the course of many, many years. And so I think it'd be really fun if we were like, okay, where were we in our lives and what were they seeing? like we Were they seeing Britney on stage before they like all of this? like They went through both the Obama administration, you know what I mean? One Direction it became a band. and disbanded day the timeline the 1d updates blog that i used to run is quaking in her boots literally right now exactly period okay so so i love i love amanda that you're asking where were we because we are part of queer all of us all of us are part of queer history yeah
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, so 2008 economic crisis, me as the youngster in this trio, I was in first grade experiencing the economic crisis with my parents working in the real estate agency. So that was fun. um Big economic crisis. I don't know what, like, further beyond being in first grade and watching the election happen and this ah crisis economic stuff. Yeah.
00:18:28
Speaker
I was 13. I was in middle school, probably being awkward as fuck. Definitely not queer at that point in my life. um I definitely probably had glasses, braces, and bangs, which was like being a triple threat combo. I met my best friend like during this kind of era, and she's still my best friend to this day, the love of my life. Lau, what about you?
00:18:55
Speaker
i I also had, you call it bangs, I've always called them a fringe because I have family in the UK. I have family in the UK so that's why. ah So I had a fringe but the fringe was red. o Like red head on a thread because i was ah i was a Potterhead and I was obsessed Ginny Wisdy. Like, you know, do I want to be here or do I want to be with her?
00:19:22
Speaker
i was i was the question the question I was too young to even ask that question. i was 14. So that was not on my radar, queerness at all.
00:19:35
Speaker
um And I think it was it was the calm before the storm of being a teenager. Like everything was very calm. Everything was working out.
00:19:46
Speaker
i I knew who I was. I was reading one book after the other. I did not hate school as much as I will later on. And as I just said, I was not questioning anything. I was just there. ah And my brother just sent me a reminder of the video we recorded that New Year's Eve.
00:20:09
Speaker
And he always jokes, he's like, today's the anniversary to the dumbest video my sister made because I end the video saying like, I hope you have the best 2009 year of your lives. So I was just playing around. So, you know, he's gonna laugh at that.
00:20:32
Speaker
So yeah, it was it was a nice moment before things were not nice in the world, you know? like Listen, you know, like everybody was like, oh, America elected a black president. Racism is over. Uh-huh, uh-huh.
00:20:47
Speaker
They're like, oh my god, it was i kind of felt like summer 2016, you know, when like nothing could go wrong, but then everything did. Uh-huh. I was fully immersed in my scene phase, I will say. like I was very much like emo kid, 2008, listening to My Chemical Romance, um like straightening my bangs, putting eyeliner like on my waterline.
00:21:12
Speaker
The photos are gone. And you know what? Emo kids did not get enough representation in this show, I think, for that era. I would just like to go out there.
00:21:24
Speaker
I went to through Dun & Phil's rabbit hole last November and December ah for the first time in my life. And I was like, yeah, we're talking about queer history. Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
Wait, queer history! December 2008 is the last December before Dan and Phil know each other. Holodong came before Dan and Phil. Oh my god, there was something in the water!
00:21:51
Speaker
Okay. Holodong is older than Dan and Phil. Yes. No, I love this. I love this. Okay, so we open on our boy, Ilya Rosanov. He's trying to light his cigarette. Okay, first of all, I love this that it like doesn't catch until he makes eye contact with Shane, like the lighter, like it is like the spark, like, shut up.
00:22:16
Speaker
Jacob Tierney, the man that you are. And I love that we we see Ilya first because we are seeing everything through Shane's eyes. So we enter with Shane, we see Ilya, and then when Ilya turns and sees Shane and make makes eye contact, that is when we see both of them.
00:22:39
Speaker
So I thought it was a very clever way to build the POV. We start with Ilya, not because Ilya is more important, but ah because we're walking in Shane's shoes. and we're playing with this idea that we're gonna be jumping from POV to POV and we are gonna be with both of them, it's not like our protagonist Shane and his love story with Ilya.
00:23:06
Speaker
They're both our protagonists and I think for sure like the cinematography here communicates that very well. And the body language. Shane mimicking the smoke because he's not sure Ilya understands. And we have the no smoking sign, just out of focus, but Ilya looks at it. like I know it's there. Like, I don't really care.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Like, babes, come on. This is, like, also such a great moment because I feel like before we even know who they are, there is, like, a juxtaposition between the two of them. From Ilya being blonde-haired and, oh my god, we don't talk about Beanie Ilya enough. Jesus Christ, Beanie Ilya.
00:23:52
Speaker
okay but like he's blonde blue-eyed shane is dark hair dark eyed you even see like class distinctions like shane is looks like he's more like buttoned up a little bit he's wearing like nicer items like he's in a big puffer and a Like in a sweatshirt where Ilya looks like he's more lower class. He's got like a workman's jacket on. He's not really like super dressed for the weather. Like there is this like immediate distinction between the two of them before we even know that they're rivals before we even know who they are. And so I love I love how that like scene is like immediately set up.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, we also get our first intro to Ilya's known asshole facade. Like, he's just so known to be such a jerk because this is like the first thing of that where like, yeah, there's a no smoking sign right there. going smoke right here. And also when, like, Shane says you're an awesome player to watch and he goes, okay, okay.
00:24:48
Speaker
Like, he's just such an asshole. And this so this is our first thing. And he's but he starts off that way with Shane. And then as we go through this, and I'll mention it again, where he like, lessens some the he's still an asshole, but like, less so to Shane than others. And then also Shane is just like, awkwardly hanging around. But like, he immediately rebukes the trash talk. And I love that. Like he baby bird learns how to chirp throughout this. But he immediately knows when someone's trash talking him and will throw it back.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yes, and also for all you non-hockey people, chirping is what hockey players call throwing insults at one another, like you're chirping another player. So I'm sure everybody's learned that, but it you know, just in case you're not aware. no the only thing I wanted to say is ah just for stuff we want to track, for stuff we will be talking about, disclaimer,
00:25:34
Speaker
We will explain why Ilya is not toxic. So even though we are saying that he has this asshole facade, I also, as the international in this group, want to point out our cultural differences and how they're going to affect these interactions between our characters. And there's a lot here happening with Ilya. First, how comfortable is he talking?
00:26:03
Speaker
in English, having this conversation in English. Second of all, he how used is he to yeah rival... team members coming to him in such a friendly way.
00:26:16
Speaker
and we're going to see throughout the episode when like what is his environment at home. So we're going to understand a bit more how like that OK, he has a facade. He is he has a wall up. He's protecting himself. But we know that there's a lot there to unpack.
00:26:38
Speaker
Lauren was pointing out at the class. social class thing, but also this cultural thing and being the foreigner being approached in a language that you don't feel that comfortable in and sometimes we can seem like assholes because we don't feel like connecting children language we're tired we're overwhelmed like see how his coach treats him in the next scene so like clearly he's stressed out he's got a lot of pressure on him from home because his dad is like the traditional russian russian hockey parent where he's like you have to win everything and show everybody how good russia is at this and how Show everyone how better Russia is at hockey. And so like he's probably I mean, like the smoking we can see is like a stress reliever for him like throughout the series. And so like him smoking outside and then like being approached by this kid who's like, I just want to have a friend. And that'd be like, wait, hold god I'm not comfortable with this language. I've had a stressful day. Like, I really don't want to do this right now. And so like, while I can like support Shane Hollander's like little, ah like nice Canadian boy thing, is very like, it is very not what Ilya wants at this moment. But also Ilya does check him out like four or five times in this scene. So we see the eyes. The eyes, the eyes tell Ilya stories. Just watch the eyes. Connor does a great, a great job with eyes.
00:28:08
Speaker
He is, both of them are great with face expression and i acting and I think this adds to our idea of why is this so addicting and I think that Connor, Story, and Hudson Williams are so such phenomenal actors and we will continue to say this throughout but like the way especially if you've seen any of their interviews or how they talk about the production of the show they're so they become so comfortable with each other and they give everything to this production to their roles like Connor constantly being praised for his accent work and he's like yeah I think he said in some interview where he was like yeah I just am not embarrassed about it and I just absolutely give it everything even if it does come out bad and his commitment to that
00:28:43
Speaker
really shines through like to the point where people think he's actually Russian, even though he's not. He's from Texas or something. So I think that that idea of that the fact that we can pick up on this through them, of like, they're eyeing each other so much, and we pick up so many of those microexpressions,
00:28:56
Speaker
gives to the idea of why is it so addicting is because they're fucking good at it. They're so good at acting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're such good actors, but all right, moving into the next scene. So the next scene is like starting with a voiceover. You're learning about who they are as hockey players. They talk about Shane. They're like, Oh, he isn't sociable, but he has like the highest hockey IQ. And, And so basically in hockey, what that means is that you're not only good at like doing all of the things that hockey requires you to do, like passing, shooting, skating, but you also can like see the game happening and you can make like split second decisions on how you are going to change the play. Hockey is talked about as a game that's played in inches. So like, even though the rink is massive, um it is like oftentimes down to like split seconds, down to milliseconds, down to inches for players to make decisions about things. So players with really got high hockey IQs. Currently in the league are people like Connor McDavid, Connor Bedard, Macklin Celebrini. These are all people who are like amazing playmakers. They can like see what's happening on the rink before it even happens. Basically, they're like, basically... telling the future of the game before they make a decision. So also, I think this is also where they kind of, again, juxtapose Shane because he's like, you know, he's smart, he's dedicated, he's fast, he's got a good shot. He's like all of the things you would want a hockey player to be, but he's not sociable. And then you see the opposite when they're talking about Ilya and they're like, oh, he's strong on puck. He's a strong skater. He gets under people's skin, but he's good in the room. And I think this will also play into like how we talk about Ilya as a captain, especially in like episode two with the Olympians. So it's literally like if you put them together, like Shane and Ilya, they would be like the perfect hockey player. but they are distinctly separate and they distinctly have their own things that make them very good and they don't intersect.
00:31:00
Speaker
So this is why them playing together would be amazing. That's great. Thank you for explaining that because it does add a lot. And if you don't know about hockey, you might miss some of that. We also get like, I think it's so important that we have the juxtaposition between the previous scene and this scene.
00:31:19
Speaker
because we got to meet them very intimately before knowing them as the public knows them. So the show is telling us we are not gonna be seeing them through the POV of the public. We're gonna be seeing them in private and then contrasting them to their public image. um So we have the cameras showing the names on on the backs of their uniforms.
00:31:48
Speaker
We get nationalities, um we did it before that, and we get all these hockey analysis on who they are as players. But we, as as spectators, we know other things. We know Shane admires Ilya. We know Ilya is a rule breaker.
00:32:09
Speaker
We know also ah that there's a vibe between them. We are maybe not sure exactly what kind of vibe, but we know this is a romance, so I... If anyone was, like, surprised by the fact that they fuck in a few scenes... Okay. No, they're and this is, I think, important to set up. Yeah, they're not enemies. They're not enemies. Like, the first seed, like, they're, they're like, like, they don't hate each other. Like, and like, this rivalry is mostly media. Like, this happens every year with and NHL players. Like, there are rivals, like, totally. But like, this is not an enemies to lovers story. This is a rivals to lovers story. They don't hate each other. There is no... they don't want to kill each other. They don't want to kill each other's families. I know hockey is very important to Shane, but it's not life and death in that sense that some enemies to lovers get.
00:33:08
Speaker
We have a... like the conflict will be how their private life contrasts with people's images of them, like what the public has projected on them.
00:33:22
Speaker
How the but capitalistic machine of the League has been drinking from this golden fountain of the rivalry between Shane and Ilya. And I think this is very important to point out that they never hated each other. they might be annoyed by each other sometimes, they're gonna be like rivals on the ice, but everything else about this rivalry was built as a PR thing.
00:33:52
Speaker
that yes brings people to the games, gets people into buying things because they will choose a side and choosing a side will make them more dedicated fans to them. Exactly. So this is not like a story about two people that hated each other and then fell in love. That's not what we have here.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah, they just have like a supposed rivalry that has been set up for them in this way. And they play into it because that's like what they're meant to do. But of course, they have something else going on on the side. And I do think that in this scene specifically, it's a very interesting framing narrative um like that is used throughout the show as a way to illustrate like what you're saying of like how the public sees them and in different ways. to It's a different perspective of like, oh, how is the public seeing them? Because we as the audience get that personal first person be almost basically point of view from each of them.
00:34:45
Speaker
and But then you have to zoom out to the other side of like, okay, but what is the public facing of this and how are they acting in public? And I also want to say that we are looking at framing narratives in a meta perspective of like the protagonist antagonist. We need to look at who is the antagonist in this story. true And I saw it was a tweet or a TikTok or like someone sent me a reel or something, but I was the antagonist of this story. Isn't the other one. it isn't their like their parents or whatever. The antagonist is the league, either the NHL or the MHL or whatever they want to call it in the show or the book.
00:35:14
Speaker
is the the league that they're playing for because it won't let them be who they are. And in like they have to, and don't know, I'm not going to use spoilers for the rest of the the series, but like these are, there there are obviously obstacles of why they couldn't express these feelings that they have and why it becomes a ah whole hidden thing.
00:35:29
Speaker
um And I think that keeping behind that idea of like, who's the protagonist antagonist and why does this is drive part of their motivations and why they act the way they do, I think it is very important to keep in mind. And also to add on to that, the antagonist is Russia. Like, it's the other thing. Because, like, that is like, I mean, we get into this, like, later on in this episode even, and, like, further on in the series but like vladimir putin's like anti-gay laws and like the way that russia treats gay people is like a major antagonist in this story and like to who like not acknowledge that and to not acknowledge like the things that like gay people in russia have been through or people who are allies of gay people in Russia have been through i think is like really disingenuous so it's not only both the and NHL which is a super racist sexist homophobic rapist like centered organization but also so this country that is just like literally destroying like everything about this young man's life
00:36:34
Speaker
Yeah, and and I have more thoughts on this, but I think we'll we'll get there when we get to the towards the end of the episode when they're a couple years later in, I think, Vegas. For now, I also wanted to say this scene, we're in the scene where they're still eyeing each other and setting up the idea of them as rivals. We get the first look at the hashtag momager. I do love Hollander. think she's so funny and so great.
00:36:54
Speaker
Kris Jenner works hard, but Yuna Hollander works harder. devil works hard, but Yuna Hollander yeah works harder. Yes, and I do i want to shout her out every time we see her because she, i ah i adore her. So this is our first look at the momager, but also like the way she's sitting, also the way that Shane obviously has her support, but where is Ilya's support? The only thing he gets in this, the only like acknowledgement he gets is a call-up from his his coach. And so he's sitting there like manspreading, chewing on his, the aglet of his hoodie in the seats and staring at Shane. So I think that was a really cool showing, not telling, but like showing us how that side of their life as well.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yes. Yes. No. And I wanted to say like, just very briefly, Ilya's support is negative. Like Ilya doesn't have support. Like his coach, like the way that his coach talks to him is negative. The way that he talks to the other Russian players is negative. Like I think he says, I think he says something about like sucking a dick or something to another Russian player. I gotta go find the exact translation, but that is all negative. So he has nothing. He has no one. It makes want to cry.
00:37:57
Speaker
It's negative. And and it's not it's not that he has nothing. He has a lot of negative, as you were saying. like It's not only the absence of support, it's the presence of harassment.
00:38:11
Speaker
ah Correct. Which makes it more complex. and i Two things. First, ah We were talking about how Shane is portrayed as not very sociable, but the contrast between that and Shane are approaching Ilya, who is a stranger to him. you know So is he not sociable or is to us, and for anyone who is for some reason not aware, Shane has been confirmed as being on the spectrum, being autistic. So we're gonna also see how we portray neurodivergence in media. Like how people assume that there's only one way to be sociable.
00:38:52
Speaker
And ah this is something we're gonna track as well in this podcast is how Shane is actually a good friend. Someone that is reaching out constantly to the people he loves.
00:39:05
Speaker
someone who communicates even, just not very party guy sociable, which I feel represented as a NeuroSpicy person in that. So... Yeah, and I think we're going to do a special episode after we cover this first season. We'll do a special episode on NeuroDivergence and how that relates to Shane and and perhaps some of the other characters in the show. I'm really excited for that. And so we'll highlight things here that we'll further explore in that episode as well. Yes. Yes.
00:39:34
Speaker
we have a couple things we're tracking here. First, the thing we're tracking is the see you at the draft. So we cut we get this idea of that we they keep saying the next time that they'll see each other. So it's like, oh, see you at the draft. So this is our first iteration of that.
00:39:46
Speaker
And then this, I want to just for petty, not petty purposes, but just, I don't remember where, i might have been in an air interview or something, but they were saying, so I think Jacob Tierney was saying that it's not the hockey so much as matters, but it's like the hockey that we're getting is who Which side of the couple is wins or loses and how are they portrayed? And so I want to follow that. And so, Rosanoff's at one here and Hollander's at zero. Now back with the timeline, six months later, the lao was saying that this timeline was wild to you the first time you watched it. Do you want to talk about that?
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, for me it was like, oh, we're already jumping and i think two scenes later we're jumping six months later. again. so I was like, oh, this is going so quick. So I was getting used to it this first episode. And I think they do a great job with pointing it out. Like, I don't think there's a way to do this time jumps so frequently that is better than the one they chose.
00:40:41
Speaker
Like for me, it would be so hard to track and it might be because I can't count. But I think that the big six months later adds a lot to the experience of this timeline that is so convoluted and so fast at first.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a really cool way to frame them. And it it is very outright, but I think that's important to show like how often they are or aren't talking to each other. It's to say that they're they're maybe not seeing each other. This is the next time they see each other and they're not talking much in between. And I think it's a really cool narrative to set up for in a love story of the time and distance that grows between them and what can happen to them in those in-betweens. And so it's really cool to see them to like skip time and be like, oh, how do they look now? They look a little older. They're coming into their own. They're like, what, 18, 19 when we first meet them. And then now they're getting into their early 20s.
00:41:32
Speaker
That continues in how they change. So now that puts us at June 2009 or about there. um We're in l LA for the MLH Raft. And so this is really important. This sets up what teams they're going to be on and and how that's going to work. And there are some really interesting there little things that you pick up on in these short conversations. The first time I watched it, i i i had to like turn back the the time because I was like, whoa, there was so much that just happened here between the comparing between them and like the little microaggressions and the little things. um So I'm really excited to talk about this.
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, so just a little info on the draft before we get into it. so Yes, please! um as the As the hockey guru, I will get into it. Okay, so leading up to the draft, players play in a ton of different leagues, do a lot of different things. Typically, they have to be above 18 before September 15th and under 21.
00:42:26
Speaker
for that year. So you can get drafted between 18 and 21. Most of the time, these are people who have either played on junior leagues, like the Ontario Hockey League, or the Western Hockey League, or there's a Quebec one that I'm not going to butcher the name of, or they played in like junior leagues in the United States, or even in Europe across the world. And so typically what happens when you are being drafted is the team with the worst record gets to draft first. So that year or the year before, the Boston Raiders were the worst team in their division. And so were the Montreal metros. They were like the two worst teams. And they always get the first draft pick the next year because like when you're in contention for playoffs, you don't really want to like mess up your team by bringing in like a whole new player or a bunch of new players. And so that's why you draft later.
00:43:24
Speaker
And so, yeah, so basically they are like fresh little 18-year-old babies. They are being drafted by these teams. And now it's a little different than it was in 2008. Now there's like a lottery-based system that the National Hockey League uses for their drafting process, but it was a little bit different in 2008. 2009, sorry. But the draft always happens in the end of June, and it is after the playoffs finish for the year.
00:43:51
Speaker
That's my hockey lesson for you today. That's so interesting. i had You just added so much ah to the background of these two teams that we're going to get to meet. we Then we see obviously completely flip the dynamic of the teams with with what we see with how these two play on each team. so Lau, do you want to tell us about the the three teams that we see here? with the Which also I want to say, there's ah because then we see the ah Shane, Ilya, and a third random dude. And I want to say, I've seen so many memes about whatever third guy is put in. of like They're like rooke nominations for rookie of the year that comes later. and then like But in this instance, it's like, oh, number three is so excited. He's like holding up three fingers, and but Shane and Ilya are to the side. And I've seen so many memes of the POV of that guy. it He's like, I promise I was not hooking up with anyone during that time. i don't know anything about them. I don't have any secrets. I've seen so many memes about him.
00:44:38
Speaker
About this team, so first about the logos of the team. The Montreal Bottoms? The Montreal Bottoms? And the Boston Tops?
00:44:51
Speaker
Yes. Yes! Whoever was in charge of that, great job. I remember an interview with Jacob Tierney and him saying like, yeah, they showed me this. And a lot of people were like, is this too much? And I was like, no, this is perfect. um And I agree, it's perfect.
00:45:13
Speaker
We're not being shy about what we're trying to foreshadow here. About that ah third guy. It's very interesting how they managed to do these big event scenes with the budget that they had. $3, two breaks, and a dream. Because they didn't have a lot to afford extras. So we're going to see in the big events.
00:45:38
Speaker
we We're going to see that especially in those like big events. The award ceremonies that we're going to get. um Public spaces. So this that we get here is actually a crowd for this season, like for the standards that we get in this during this season. i want to shout out to Valentina V on Instagram, who is such a director and she does... I'm actually not sure if those are the pronouns.
00:46:12
Speaker
I'm just assuming because of the name, so sorry. Valentina does this analysis on the cinematography and especially the camera works on scenes and what is in Valentina's analysis of this specific scene is how the camera is gonna tell us a lot about how are we feeling as Shane and Ilia.
00:46:38
Speaker
So We get a first Shane with his parents and ah this person from the Montreal metros. that is talking very excitedly and we can delve into the microaggression in a few seconds about how excited he is and how he doesn't care that Shane is half Asian or whatever. But we the the voices start fading a bit when Yuna starts talking. ah The only thing that Shane says is, ah I'm shocked, but I'm really excited to be here. So he's explaining why he's not like super like talkative.
00:47:17
Speaker
And then we get the camera focusing like the center is Shane. And again, this is all Valentina. I want to cite my sources. So the center of our scene is Shane.
00:47:29
Speaker
Everyone else is moving, talking, doing stuff. And Shane is just existing there. like And we are with him. We are the only ones with him.
00:47:40
Speaker
Until he looks up and meets sides with Ilya. And that's when the camera goes to Ilya. So we leave Shane and we go to Ilya.
00:47:51
Speaker
And then we get something very similar with... We're focusing on Ilya. We again see like like with the person from the metre from the Montreal metros. We see the person from the Boston Raiders.
00:48:07
Speaker
Only his back, we don't see his face very much. We see Ilya's dad after. First we hear his voice, but we're focusing on Ilya's expressions. So the camera work here is communicating a lot. First, how awkward they both feel in this situation.
00:48:26
Speaker
how maybe this is something that is happening to them, not with them. they're being like They were drafted and now they have a boss, and that boss is also talking to the parents a lot. They're they're still like kind of kids and also adults, There's a lot of attention, so they theyre may be really tired and overwhelmed by the noise, by the faces, by the action. We see Ilya being um mistreated by his father, being sold as a lazy person, which is not a very good move if the father wants Ilya to like succeed.
00:49:06
Speaker
and the you don't talk, you listen in Russian. We also see how the families see these two players. So we we got the media, how the media sees them, then we have why they were drafted and why why they wanted them in these teams, and then we see the families and how they respond to the praise to their sons. So there's a lot there and the fact that we stay with Ilya and with Shane the whole time reminds us
00:49:37
Speaker
We are not here for the external POV. We're here for the intimacy of this and how it feels to be in this situation as a young man just out And one could argue not actually out of adolescence.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. this isn't This is an audio medium. So I want to say that Lauren and I are both nodding along with what Lau is saying. We're not just quiet to be quiet. We're like nodding along. Like, yes, exactly. Exactly that. Yeah. No, we're like nodding along. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I have like so many thoughts in this in general. One of the things that like this first scene is always like, like always brings me back to is that Shane loves hockey and Ilya loves Shane. like that fact like like Shane's face at not being the number one even if he's not like what Boston wants in a player because like his hockey style like even we hear it back in the first like in the International Prospect Cup like what the part we were just talking about where they're like Shane's really fast on pucks like he's got this insane hockey IQ but it seems like when Ilya's dad is talking to Boston he's like
00:50:46
Speaker
Oh, we would like never like a pass on a guy who's this strong on puck, which means like he's just like a bigger, brutal, more brutal player and has that good of hands, which means he like can handle the puck really well. And so it doesn't even seem like... shane would fit in boston's like system but the fact that he's not number one overall is like disappointing to shane like the fact that he tried his hardest and this kid still beat him out like you can tell he's upset in that scene and so like that's the first thing that like stands out to me in that is that shane loves hockey and ilia loves beating shane like ilia loves playing the game with shane We move into this like second scene and actually this is where I like to juxtapose Shane's parents versus Ilya's dad because i mean ultimately this all comes down to capital in some way shape or form. Yes Shane's parents really want him to do whatever he wants but like yuna is about getting in the bag like she's just about getting the bag in a way that will benefit shane whereas ilia's dad is about getting the bag in a way that will benefit him or will benefit alexi his other son right and so it's all about like the connotations of like capitalism in that kind of scenario that i think are really interesting
00:52:15
Speaker
Okay, so what we have to talk about is we have to talk about the way that Shane and him being Asian is portrayed in this show. And this is this is like one of my biggest points of critique in this novel and of like white authors in general. um and it's that white authors like oftentimes do not really know how to write races other than their own so we see whiteness as being like the norm and the media sees whiteness as being the norm and the fact that they like call out like shane and they're like oh we like love that he's like asian canadian like that is it's so fucking disgusting and it also makes me think about like
00:52:59
Speaker
the players who are currently in the NHL who are Asian or who are black or who are, you know, people of color and how like their race is talked about in really kind of like disgusting kind of like, oh, look at how great this person is. They're not the norm. They're outside of it. They're not white. So that makes like their participation in this sport, Like so much more, we can talk about it so much more in a different way. Like Jason Robertson is Filipino. He's a player on the Dallas Stars right now. And he is like the best, one of the best American goal scorers in the league right now. And he just got passed over for the U.S. men's Olympic team.
00:53:47
Speaker
they did not put J Robb on the team which is because of racism it's because of racism like don't know what else to fucking say bro and then for this show to be like to make such a big deal in the first episode about like oh Shane's Asian like his mom is an immigrant because like Yuna is talking about how like she started she learned English by watching like the Montreal Metros like she clearly she is an immigrant too but then to not mention his race like any other time like it is a complete nothing burger it is like why the fuck did we write this character as asian and then just like not talk about it at all like what is the point because in the nhl and ah in a league where you have over 80 percent of people are whites like race is a big thing that we talk about like i hear it in the way that people talk about like black players and and how their rants against like black players playing styles immediately are anti-black and they will go on these like rants about their playing and like how they act in the locker room and all of these things and they are like intrinsically rooted in anti-blackness and then to like not talk about any of that in the show like to not address like the fact that shane is probably getting slurs hurled at him in both the locker room and on the ice every time he steps out on the ice He is probably facing like an unprecedented amount of media narrative about his race. And then to just have like this one kind of like throwaway moment and then never mention it again. It feels so disingenuous. And it's like, what is even the point? Because honestly, what it feels like to me is that you were like, I need to have diversity in my novel. So I'm just going to make this character Asian and then do nothing else about it.
00:55:37
Speaker
And that's one of my biggest critique. He mentions, it's like, there's like maybe one other mention of like, oh, people look up to me and it's insinuated and it's like, okay, but like how? Like there's no, there's just no like attribution to it anywhere else. And I think that we'll we we'll talk about this further on our episode of intersectionality, but I do think that if the overall antagonist of this story is the NHL for its oppressiveness to queer people and its homophobia, I think you have to add in all the other isms and the other ways that it is oppressive. I think that this is so important. And so to me, it is like,
00:56:07
Speaker
to demonstrate that there are microaggressions and to demonstrate that this structure and the system is flawed in this way and is oppressive about this because the the way this disgusting they're talking about it I think it's a start to highlight it but the fact that it it's not continued throughout and the fact that he's not getting slurs like we get like I think an F slur later but not even in on the ice it's from the Alexi But I think that there could have been other ways to highlight that Shane struggles this way because we've said before that like Ilya struggles so much. She has so many others maybe I saw it. Sorry. Maybe I saw elsewhere, but
00:56:39
Speaker
Ilya has so many of these struggles going on with Russia, like we said, and so many other like oppressive forces and problems like his father and his brother, like these problems. And Shane has this almost hunky-dory life. like He has nearly no problems and he has so much support.
00:56:51
Speaker
um And so I think it would have given him some more depth if they had shown some more strife. or see like If you mention it here, I think you need to follow through. And if it's a problem, not a problem, but like a personal problem for him, of like, oh yeah, he's this this like they' tokenizing representation representation of Asian-ness in the NHL.
00:57:07
Speaker
what what other implications does that have for him later on aside from just the sports mentioned during the French interview um yeah those are my thoughts as well
00:57:21
Speaker
yes I do I do hope that we get more in season two ah Because i do agree, and with JJ as well, and you two know that I'm so excited to talk about JJ when he comes into the story, because I, Haitian immigration is so important to me. And I do think that we're missing that whole thing. I think it's more present in the series than it was in the books. Please do better.
00:57:50
Speaker
wanted to highlight one thing that I think is more... It's much more... I don't know if this was Jacob Turney's work or the actor who plays Shane's father, David, but when... ah when the metro the Montreal Metro says, oh, we don't even care. Yuna is keeping a straight face. Like, we can see how much territory she has in dealing with this, of course, because she she's an immigrant. And she does the, the I don't register yeah what you're saying, and changes the subject, right? But David... He clocks that. He's like... David looks ready to jump this guy. Like, he is just, like, looking around... And then he hears it and he's like, excuse me?
00:58:37
Speaker
pardon yeah i'm thinking about like what jacob tierney said in like relation to like okay we didn't show like shane prepping like doing an enema before it and like i know there will be some criticism that like yes this story isn't about shane's race but like the fact is is that this it is it is but it the fact is it is is that shane would like players of color like black, brown, indigenous people in the league currently, Shane would be missing out on certain things, like certain captaincy, like he would be missing out on the Olympics because of the color of his skin, because that's how the league functions with its all-white owners. And his queerness is much more of a problem because he is not white. Right. And that's important.
00:59:29
Speaker
Just as Ilya's queerness is a problem because he's Russian, and yeah that ah in itself is very complicated. Yes, right. and and it's For shame, like the hypersexualization of Asian people is gonna play into that.
00:59:48
Speaker
The way that um he is already having to fight in a wholesale environment. yeah Him saying that he's gay is going to add to that. Right. Like, there's so much.
01:00:01
Speaker
Right, and, like, the fact that, like, Yuna even gets the respect that she does from, like, this Montreal Metro. And the fact that she accepts it and plays into it, think, is that respect in the way that she is talking about it. Because you know she wouldn't get that in any league right now. If she had tried to do that, they could have very well been like, oh, you know, maybe we don't want Shane actually, like, maybe if this is going be a problem, they would have absolutely done that. And also, did want to throw out, I believe Canadian marriage equality for queer people was established in, like, 2005. I think it was before this show takes place. So I think for most of Shane's life, he has known that, or he has had that, like,
01:00:34
Speaker
It was like fought more or less fine, like like in his teenage years when it was legalized. But also that is like something where he's like, oh yeah, like queer people have a right. Not that he knows that this time that he's queer, but I'm gonna throw that out there. And then also within this scene, something that I am gonna track on the low, I'll mention it a couple other times, but like we don't even get the face of these people speaking, on these face committeeing the face of these people committing these microaggressions. There's a scene later on um during the commercial where it's like,
01:00:58
Speaker
We don't get the face, like because like what Lau was saying of this is Shane and Ilya's story, it's not about the rest of them, but of the way that there are so many people in their lives that they interface with that they don't even, we don't even get to see the face of, of like people, like their coaches. we don't we get It's like an off screen thing.
01:01:14
Speaker
voice and I don't know if that's because of the budget or whatever but I think it contributes to this narrative of the way of like they have all these people around them that are saying things to them and directing them and giving them these things that control their lives and then we don't even see their face it's almost like in cartoons it's like the parent is like we only get their body you know And then this is even echoed over into, like, the media that Hudson and Connor are doing, where Hudson is facing, like, anti-Asian microaggressions in interview. And has to deal with that. Yeah. Like, so, this is, like, I mean, racism. Woo! Title the show. Oh, my God. I think we're going to do a special episode on that as well so we don't digress as much but I do think it is it is so critical and so important to follow um and we're going to keep pointing it out because it is relevant and it is important and I do want to keep talking about it.
01:02:01
Speaker
to listening To the thing that Amanda is saying about these faceless people, I think it's it might have something to do with budget but it what it communicates in the so cinematography is that there's a system, not an individual, that is doing this. And that I love. I love the fact that the ANHL is faceless and that the journalists are also... So you can't hold them responsible? Yes and no, because you you can hold them responsible, but also you can understand how there is something that goes deeper than this individual's choices, right? Like you are being told this is a culture.
01:02:42
Speaker
This is a system that benefits of this, right? So we can be David and want to jump this person, but there is a systemic issue that needs fixing because if you don't fix the system, you're just going to get more and more of these people.
01:03:02
Speaker
even if you Right, and exactly. and and and like, Shane has to kind of shut up and take it, unfortunately, because this is what he, is his job, you know? Like, and this is, I mean, this is the reality that, like, Black, Indigenous, Brown people, like, face in their work positions, in their social positions, like, the impact.
01:03:23
Speaker
like just constant microaggressions from white people and the fact that they just have to shut up and take it because it's tied to capital again exactly wait ah should we just call this capitalism listen capitalism is a problem and i am very aware of it Right now, today, thank you. i am oh I am located in a specific part of our geography that makes me think of capitalism as a problem. So, yeah. Right, exactly. And yes, I realize like I am a white person.
01:03:58
Speaker
And this conversation about race is like something that I am very much like outsider looking in. But I think something that we consistently kind of talk about in media studies is like the idea of like meaningful representation versus just representation. And so I very much feel like...
01:04:16
Speaker
While it's great that we have like an, uh, like a white Asian or like a Canadian Asian person as our like lead for this show, that meaningful representation and like,
01:04:30
Speaker
more delving into that identity and what exactly it means, especially in relation to the entire and NHL and their like history of racism is I think something that like the show and the book should do more of because like I said, like Shane would most likely not get the opportunities because of his race and because of the way that the like and NHL functions. And just because racism is so inherently ingrained in these like systemic oppressive sports complexes. I mean, I could go on and on and talk about how the draft is really just an example, like modernized example of the slave trade, but it's like that is for a whole nother pod or episode or whatever. So...
01:05:19
Speaker
I agree with you and I think what what happens is you're teasing this, right? You're mentioning it. I understand this is women's, right? So we're like kind of putting our rose glasses on and idealizing a lot of things. But if you're touching all of these other things, not touching on the race part as much yeah feels uncomfortable, feels like something is left there that you didn't explore, that deserves to be explored as much as the other parts. So I understand. If we were just like pretending this is paradise and everyone is the same,
01:06:01
Speaker
we will not be telling Ilyas and Shane's story, right? Right, exactly. So I do think that this story in particular asks, like the narrative is asking you to go there. Yeah. I am expecting them to go there in the future. not necessarily as portraying a lot of aggression towards the character, but I want to see how being who he is in his entirety affects the way he's going to deal with lot of the issues we will see him dealing with in the next season.
01:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we should probably move on from this point. I mean, I can talk about this point forever, and we will have an episode like dedicated to intersectionality. But moving on, after the draft, when Illion and his dad are talking to the Boston rep... I think that's the first moment that we get a memory issue with his dad. Like, I think his dad's already having memory issues there, and I'm going to theorize why. Because the way that Ilya looks at his dad is almost like...
01:07:12
Speaker
I'm scared of what you're going to say because I don't know if it's going to be like the other person is going to be able to understand what you're saying. Not I'm scared of what you're going to say because I think it's going to be something against me. I think Ilya has made his peace with the fact that his dad doesn't like him. I think that moment is like Ilya being like, oh shit, I know my dad has been having memory problems or memory issues. And I'm afraid he's going to say something in front of this rep that's going to make this rep or this GM or whoever think that I will not be able to be on this team because of your failing health issues.
01:07:55
Speaker
And so then when we go to after this scene where they're in the ah where they're on the bikes and it's the World Juniors Part 2, which I can explain why it's World Juniors Part 2, but I'll get into that in a second. where Ilya's talking to his brother and his dad. he tells his brother, he's like, he asked me to go get bread, like to bring home bread the other day. And so I think that like further reinforces my hypothesis that like Ilya is not afraid of what his dad could say to insult him. He's afraid of how his dad being like perceived could impact his career because then he does say something like when he does start talking to his dad,
01:08:38
Speaker
like a bunch of things happen that make you kind of like think that this is maybe an issue. So that was my thoughts that I wanted to start. Interesting. Yeah. I think in hindsight, that is a really good thing. Cause at the time you're like, Oh, he's like such an asshole. Like why would he say that in front of Ilya's boss? But I think in hindsight, that is a really, really interesting point to make.
01:08:58
Speaker
Right. And so I think that also like goes back and further informs when Ilya and Shane meet at the prospect cup the first time, like all of the other stressors that Ilya is having. Because like, if we think about dementia is it's like, it happens gradually, right? It's like people start forgetting things. And so he also might be dealing with that kind of stress at the World Juniors the first time or the International Prospect Cup the first time.
01:09:22
Speaker
But moving on to the next part of this episode, which is the infamous biking scene. Also, okay, I just want to see what y'all think, because in the books, they're running on treadmills. So why do we think, because Jacob Tierney, he doesn't do anything without thinking.
01:09:42
Speaker
Why do we think he changed from treadmills to bikes? I think it's easier... think it was just like that was what they had and they like... No, no, no, no, no. I think it's easier to film, to have them side by side on bikes than on treadmills. Like the distance that you can be safe when two people are using treadmills to run, you cannot have that closeness and that intimacy that we start getting with the bikes. And also, yeah ah it would make more sense to me that they're both training in the middle of the night. Evidently, Shane is like, this was too much, I need exercise. So it would make more sense to me for them to go and sit on bikes, you know, just like to do a small cardio workout to clear my head before sleep, then go up on a treadmill and do like ups, downs, now I need inclination, you know, like...
01:10:36
Speaker
There's lot in there that you can show with a bike. Make it harder with the screw, but you can have them closer together. There's less noise than like a machine.
01:10:49
Speaker
that you have to turn on. And that is so important because one of the key elements of this scene and why you get so into it and you discover how the sexual tension is there is because of the breathing and nothing else. So if you have a lot of noise, yeah you lose that. You lose all that. We don't have them, like, we we're not presented to them face to face. We see Shane.
01:11:16
Speaker
and we see Ilya's shadow, right? And I think all of that is so important to understand how intimate, how close they are, and how this is one of those pivotal moments where we understand how good they are at non-verbal communication. I envy them because that I suck at that. Shane is there, he has his ear... like he's listening to music. He's in his bike. He feels Ilia, but he never turns his head to look at Ilia. And Ilia starts and Shane is very aware of the pace.
01:11:52
Speaker
So Shane starts pedaling faster and then Ilia is doing the same we know because of the breathing. and they non-verbally decide to compete, right?
01:12:04
Speaker
And eventually, yeah, eventually Shane concedes because he's tired. So, ah but there's no dialogue here. Nothing but... No.
01:12:16
Speaker
Oh my god, the breaths. Okay. Nothing else. The dialogue comes after that. And I just want to highlight that. Because I think in the terms of how you portray intimacy on screen, a lot of people are thinking about lights and how you see and you don't see. And all of that is very important. Like, how do you simulate penetration? How do you simulate a blowjob? But how you tell the story about how these people connect for me and make the...
01:12:46
Speaker
spectators feel like they are in the room with these people because we are sweating as well. Our breathing, our heartbeat connects to them because of the sound. Like the way we focus exclusively on the... is It's very important. If we had like a song playing and some banter, we will have a completely different dynamic being presented to us.
01:13:14
Speaker
This is like the click, the chemistry, the rivalry, everything is clicking here. But also the fact that they didn't agree to meet. They just did, right? They were both in need of the same thing. So there's a lot of here, how, what we're gonna see in the next 10 years of this relationship being presented to us in this Viking scene through breath and sweat.
01:13:44
Speaker
you know like This is brilliant in terms of intimacy representation. This is great because they click not only when they're fucking, they click in their moods. When when they click, because there's miscommunication as well, when they click, the chemistry is off the charts and the way they they know what the other is doing. It's just incredible.
01:14:07
Speaker
yeah I have something i want to say, something else about the gym scene before I'm done with it. Just I want us to look at the outfits and what they're telling us. How Shane is way more covered than Ilya. How Ilya's posture from the beginning after they ride the bikes and they sit on the floor, his body language is very open while Shane is covering himself some way and keeping his extremities to his chest. a lot. Ilja is the one reaching with feet and hands and eyes. They're basically not blinking. There's almost no blinking here. And well, we have the infamous water finger touching, but I think i think that's what people like highlight the most in the edits, in the discourse, but the foot touch, which is something Amanda is tracking.
01:14:57
Speaker
So we have our first, right? yeah um and the body language yeah way it is like legs open arms open chest out tank top and shane is like has a long sleeve high neck his arms are against his chest his legs are folded and slowly he starts relaxing and he starts opening his extremities towards Ilya. So I think that is, again, great work from intimacy coordinator coordination, I'm sure. Like, I'm sure there's something there, the work they're doing with the intimacy coordinator, and we can talk about that later yeah a bit more because the work with intimacy on screen is just brilliant.
01:15:44
Speaker
Yeah. I think the foot touches also really contribute to the nonverbal communication, which is why I want to track it is because it's just, again, goes back to their nonverbal communication and how in sync and how in click they are or like how well they click.
01:15:57
Speaker
um And I also wanted to point out, um why is Ilya dropping his asshole facade with Shane here? Like the physical openness, like you're saying, and then and another attempt at friendliness. Like Ilya says they'll be seeing each other a lot. And he's kind of almost matching Shane's openness from the first scene of them of like, oh, like, I really admire you, like all this. Like, I feel like he's trying to reconnect a bit of that because Shane is like, okay, I know you as an asshole now. Like, why? Or why are you offering me your water? Why are you being nice to me? think that Ilya really only drops this asshole facade with Shane I think this is our first instance of that and so I was curious about what y'all thought about that and like unpacking that I this is like a really vulnerable moment for Ilya the line that really gets me is when he's like Montreal is nice and then he's like Boston is nice too and I'm like this poor little baby like he's never been to America he's never like he's probably been to America he's probably come and seen these teams like because typically before the draft there's something called a draft combine and you like go and basically meet all your teens in person and talk to them and do like exercising and stuff but he's like never lived in america he is just this little guy who has no support system as we can tell like based on his family interactions leading up until this point he's clearly got like some kind of issue with his dad who's
01:17:13
Speaker
maybe going through something potentially. And so he's like very alone and he's also, you know, like seen Shane with his parents and with his support system. And maybe that like changes things a little bit for him. Maybe he's like, all right, like, you know, maybe I can joke around with this guy a little bit. Maybe I can be a little more open to him because I am so alone in this. So I think it's like a really great moment for vulnerable, like Ilya, that we like are able to see in the first couple of episodes, which we don't really get i like on like large scale until the fourth episode, which is vulnerable Ilya central. Yeah, and he's like, okay, we we we clicked.
01:17:57
Speaker
I know you. You're familiar. Nothing else here is familiar. And we've been seeing each other a lot. so And we met at this odd hour here. So we have things in common.
01:18:09
Speaker
I need a friend. I need to feel like I know someone. and you're nice and I remember that time when you approached me and I was probably not in my best behavior so I think that's what's happening here and also Ilya knows that Shane is probably sad about being second right so he's like offering that olive branch because he admires Shane as a player and as a person.
01:18:36
Speaker
And I think this this should be the scene used in the argument against the Ilya haters. Ilya is a toxic abusive partner just kidding. Yes! Yes! Also, he checks Shane out a bunch in this episode! i Like, this scene, and Shane's checking him out a bunch! And so it's like, yeah the learning is there, baby! The eyes are going to those words. The eyes!
01:19:03
Speaker
the crutch yes him saying more like that stopped me in my tracks the first time i watched i had to like pause the show and like get up and go get a drink of water because i was like i don't know if i can handle this the water sounds who else was thirsty Yeah. Who is the Give them what they Next up, we have New Year's Eve 2009.
01:19:31
Speaker
And we're in Ottawa, Ontario, in the International Prospect Club. ah So first season on the routine. And this is the first season on their team. No, it's not the first... of all Okay, let's explain a little bit how drafting works. But it's been a year after. Okay, so of them so after you're drafted, most... Like, unless you are, like, the overall first-round pick, most of the time...
01:19:57
Speaker
like you go back to your junior teams or you go to like the AHL, the American Hockey League, or you go back to like your European country. If they were in their and NHL teams, if they were on the Raiders and the Metros, they wouldn't be playing in the Prospect Cup because that happens during the NHL season. And the NHL is like, it's the show. Like she's way more important than playing for a juniors tournament. So they most likely did not have, like, a lot of times players will spend time in, like, college or in junior leagues to, like, work on building up their skills, playing against, like, bigger and better opponents before they are brought back to team teams, like, either at the end of the year or they are... um
01:20:44
Speaker
Or they do training camp at the beginning of the NHL season, which is in September, and they pass through training camp and the preseason and then are like on the roster for the team. That makes lot of sense because they are playing against each other as Russia and Canada just a few scenes after that. Yes. That's why is Ottawa.
01:21:09
Speaker
It's because going to win. Yeah. So for example, this year, the Blackhawks had the third overall draft pick and we drafted a kid named Anton from Bell. from sweden and he came to training camp he played and pre i think he played no he didn't play a preseason game but after training camp they were like you're still not a strong enough player to make the black hawks roster for this year so you're gonna go back to your league in sweden and you're gonna play in your league in sweden for another year and then next year at training camp we'll like reevaluate you And so then he played on Sweden's team for the World Juniors and Sweden ended up winning gold for World Juniors. So he was...
01:21:53
Speaker
One of the reasons why they won gold because he's an amazing player. So he's just like building up his talent on a European league this year before he comes back to the Blackhawks again next year. So it's not.
01:22:06
Speaker
I see. So it's almost like their junior year, they would get drafted. So then after like their senior year. three right Yeah. So they get drafted during like their senior year. And then it would be like, but like some of them go to college and you play in the NCAA. play or you go back to a junior league and you play in the junior league or you go to a European league like Austin Matthews um was drafted to the Toronto Maple Leafs but like the year before he was on a I think he was no he played a year after because he didn't make the Toronto Maple Leafs roster I think the first year and he played a year in a European league, I think, but I'm not really sure. But yeah, it's very typical for your draft.
01:22:46
Speaker
Like if you get drafted in 2025, let's say you don't play the season in 2025. The only, like there are some exceptions and it's usually the first overall pick. Like Macklin Celebrini, Connor Bedard and Matthew Schaefer are the last three first round overall draft picks. And they all played their first years on their perspective teams. Yeah.
01:23:07
Speaker
I'm so glad we have an expert on this. Because that's... That's me, so long.
Ilya's Family Dynamics and Cultural Expectations
01:23:14
Speaker
Because i dont I was not paying attention to the teams at all. I was like, oh yeah, whatever. and then But we see... My main point with it being was that they um there's this really cool framing of them. like We see the like loser crossing. like like It's the same framing of like the team celebrating in the back. And then R side of the couple that we're following, the loser of them, like, hanging their heads sliding across the ice of the screen. I thought i thought that was a really cool advice. And so I was like, oh yeah, like, 1-1, like, they're both tied now. But they're tied not on their own teams, but in this tree. Yeah, and that's why Ilya is getting very aggressive reprimanded very aggressively reprimanded by his father as ah someone who represents Russia and not someone who plays for the Boston Rangers. I wanted to just point out that some things that were happening during this moment in the world. So we continue with the economic crisis. The US is in Afghanistan.
01:24:04
Speaker
Please look that up, given the fact that a lot of similar things are happening again. Fun fact! It was both a blue moon and a lunar eclipse that night where Ilya is talking to his family.
01:24:17
Speaker
in his hotel room. What is the astrology on that? Where's my astrology girlies? Tell me what that means. I need someone to explain that. Please, if you're an astrology person, hit us up with a comment. Astrology girlies, hit us up. Both DC and Mexico passed a same-sex marriage law in December of that year, 2009.
01:24:40
Speaker
And the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union comes into effect, and it includes a protection of sexual orientation. So we see we're not there yet, but ah we're getting some recognition in the legal side of the things. And we also get important astrology events that we cannot understand. We as us three. We don't know. I have no idea. If you leave a comment or message us, we'll include it in our next episode. And then the last thing I wanted i wanted to track here that I'm kind of keeping an eye on that I picked up on on my first watch.
01:25:20
Speaker
of the show was the technology. um I really really, really, really, really liked how they did the technology through this. um It's something I'm also, like, that is in other media where it's like, it it because it it so quickly becomes dated at a time where everything moves so quickly. um And so I think the technology here is something to really follow.
01:25:36
Speaker
um We get the first look at Ilya's, like, it's like a Blackberry-esque type phone that i thought was really cool. And then his dad's contact is in Russian, but Alexei's is in English letters. I didn't know what that was about, but I thought it was interesting. His dad is, like,
01:25:48
Speaker
I think it's like the Colonel or the Commander, like some like, other that was what my subtitle said was it wasn't Dad or Father, it was like a title and then Alexei was in English letters. So yeah, and then we get also in this technology in this episode, we get some like texting, like the texting style changes over time and like emoticons and just like it's very like basic type of texting. It's not like the the Apple Glass type shit we have now, it is very like the basic bare bones, like square blocky, chunky messaging.
01:26:13
Speaker
Amanda, we know you don't know what that's like because you were a first grader.
01:26:18
Speaker
I had a slidey phone in middle school, it slayed, it had like the buttons you had to press multiple times on, and it was a whole thing. i was aware of it. Did you have a Nokia that wouldn't break with anything?
01:26:32
Speaker
Because I had Nokia. Oh my god, I threw my Nokia like across the room one time. Excuse me, if three floors down, mine. Three floors, I like put out a wall. What? No! We call that here a panela. Panela is like a block of brown sugar. Like bread. No, a block of brown sugar. So that's solid as fuck. And we call that panela.
01:26:56
Speaker
I love that, I love that, I love that. Okay. Yeah, so we then we see this conversation, and it starts off framed where Ilya's on the bed, and we don't see his head or his face. And I think this is helps to highlight like how distant he feels from his family, or how distant he feels from his home.
01:27:12
Speaker
That was kind of the impression I got, where it starts off where, like again, like faceless conversation. He's like watching this like New Year celebration happen, um and he is just... feeling very disconnected from it all. Like, he it was set up to be, like, a very sociable guy where he gets along with his teammates, but then why is he spending new years alone? But wait he gets the call, he skips the call from his dad, and he gets, he answers the call from Alexei, his brother. And I think this whole scene sets up his family dynamics and relationships. yeah Like, his brother as an asshole that just wants money from him, and so he looks down on his brother, but his father is someone that he wants to make proud of. And he's also a little... intimidated by, he's obviously a little scared of him, but he still wants to be- wants to make him proud, like he still wants to live up to his- his father. But his brother, he seems to be like, it's- it's so weird because his brother like is calling him these slurs but still asking him for money and he's like oh we can all live without you. you? You're asking him for money. Can you? So, um... He means we can live without you.
01:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I was like, I was just- I was just like, It just, it's so icky. and And I mean, obviously it's icky, but it's, and it sets up Alexei as this asshole that's just going to keep asking from Ilya until he's drained. But I was just like, I, like, I just understand Ilya so, so deeply here. Like the family that you can't stand, but like that you love, like to have family as a core belief and as a core value, but then as people, it they just suck.
01:28:29
Speaker
hey I'm going to push back a little bit here the Ilya trying to impress his father, because I don't think Ilya... Like, I think Ilya cares for him and that he is his father, I don't think Ilya cares about impressing his dad with hockey because I think Ilya is aware that like, nothing he does is ever good enough for this man. And like, especially as we learn more in the long game, but even as we learn and heated rivalry, like how close Ilya was to his mother and how like much her death and like her suicide affected him and how much it was intrinsically tied to his father. I don't think Ilya is that connected to his dad. I think Ilya is trying to be the best at something because I think that's what Ilya wants is to be the best and to do the competition. And so I think that's where maybe he's upset at himself for not doing well enough. But I don't really care what he – I don't really think he cares about what his father thinks, especially as he becomes more distanced from them. And like is becoming into like his own as we see in like episode two and episode four, where he like is living in the United States. Most of the time, he's not really going back to Russia except for the summer's. Like, he really becomes his own person and it like distances himself from his family. Yeah, I see that too.
01:29:56
Speaker
i can see what you're saying, but I think it's both. Like, there's like a rational part of Ilya that knows all of this, right? And that resents a lot of things as well. But also, and I say this because of things he will say in the next episodes as well, because of how... I'm thinking of Frankenstein here. I'm thinking of the way Guillermo El Toro rewrote it, you know? Like, what Del Toro does in in his movie is that he shows us Dr. Frankenstein's education with his father and this resolved not to be like his father, but at the same, like, in the sense that I'm gonna push back against what you said was intentional, but at the same time, the daddy issues are there. right And that's why Dr. Frankenstein is the worst father ever, because he didn't deal with what he carried. And I think Ilya is dealing with something super complex of knowing nothing he does will ever be enough. But if he was as distant as we wish him to be, you know, for his own sake, send money, he wouldn't take the calls, you know? right
01:31:06
Speaker
And he feels like he's connected to these people. and that things should be different and it hurts him but he cannot leave them because he feels like they're my family. So I think he is yeah navigating that line between my reason tells me my father is not a good man, my brother is not a good man, I deserve better, people should not be treated this way But my emotions are telling me this is what I have to deal with and I have a responsibility here and i so I'm still linked emotionally to these people even though it's the most painful relationship I have.
01:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm also wondering like how much of a like cultural impetus is also there. I mean, my family is like mostly Polish, but there is kind of like an ingrained like thing where like children take care of their parents. as like their parents age and ah especially like in general. And I know like from what I know about hockey and what I've experienced in hockey culture, first of all, hockey is like immensely cost prohibitive. And a lot of hockey players will, their parents will spend like, $20,000, $30,000 a year for them to be on, like, high leagues when they are children, like, AAA or in juniors or whatever. And so I know that a lot of hockey players, like, feel indebted to their parents when they, like, make the show, that they want to, like, pay back, like, all of the money that they have earned for, you know, like, or all the money that they, like,
01:32:41
Speaker
spent when they were children so they like buy their parents cars and houses and whatever because they feel like indebted so I feel like that's maybe also a part of this like ilia psyche that we're kind of talking about as well yeah that's so true I I don't know the Russian culture that well I only know mine. Yeah. Which is very family-centric. if you're Russian, chime in. Yeah, please. Because I don't... Like, if we're learning Russians in chat... For me, this makes a lot of sense because I'm from Colombia and Latin American people... This is a very Catholic culture and family is the center of everything. And stranging yourself from your family brings a lot of cultural baggage. ah that maybe other cultures don't have. So when I see Ilya, I'm like, yeah, I know so many people that are like you in my culture that will like keep doing this out of this belief that you owe your
Queer Rights Advancements
01:33:35
Speaker
family something even though they're abusive towards you. But I have no idea how it works in Russia, so I would love to know. Yeah, and Russia's also Eastern Orthodox Catholic, they do have like still some of those foundations in religion and stuff like that. but Amanda got us a timeline here and we're around May 2010.
01:33:54
Speaker
two thousand and ten um So to we're in Toronto, commercial shoot. I just wanted to say that 2010 is a very interesting year for queer rights, especially in the Western world, but not exclusively. Some highlights are the decriminalization of homosexuality in Fiji, the legalization of sex same-sex marriage in Iceland, and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act is signed into law in the US.
01:34:19
Speaker
So those are the highlights, but ah the Wikipedia entry for Queer History 2010 is worth exploring. It's all I'm saying. Just go there and and
Ilya and Shane's Relationship Development
01:34:30
Speaker
and and look it up. So we're in the commercial. The commercial. Okay, so like... Very interesting. This is just a hockey point, but so in the books, it's a photo shoot for CCM, which is a hockey...
01:34:42
Speaker
like brand and i and like this is it's probably not a CCM photo shoot like in the show because it's I caught this because only because I know this but like Ilya's gloves are Bauer and his stick is Sherwood which is like ah totally different brands and so if it was actually a CCM photo shoot like he would not have those gloves or that stick I do know there is CCM in the show though I've seen it on some of the different players like either shirts or helmets right but I don't Yeah, I don't know if it was, like, specifically a CCM photo shoot or if they were just doing, like, it's a Rivals photo shoot, you know, like, kind of type B. So, yeah this is, like, when Ilya was, like, no, I wanted you here, like, ah it was my idea for you to be here, I was, like, oh, he loves you.
01:35:30
Speaker
Like...
01:35:33
Speaker
we be And again, like it is it it is very like, Ilya dropping that assholery. Like, he's just, this is him reaching out, and it's so contrary to what the public views as Ilya, and so i thought that was just so, I was like, you a little sweetheart, you're such a softy, which in one of the books, i don't remember, because i'm been mentioning them, but some of them do, one or two of the main characters in the other books are like, secretly, I think Rosanoff's a softy, and I'm like, you're right, you're right. Yes, he did he so and when he says when he says you look pretty Shane is immediately like flushing this must be an asshole this has to be like he must be making like a misogynistic point here Shane does not read that as actually you look pretty and I fully believe Ilya was 100% honest like yeah you look pretty I'm this close to you
01:36:32
Speaker
And I can see how pretty you look. They did a good job. Literally, like... Thinking about his freckles? The freckles! The freckles! you imagine being, like, face-to-face with your crush like that and them being, like, you look pretty and not being, like, oh my god, i'm gonna melt into the floor.
01:36:51
Speaker
I have had that before. You say melt, Lauren, and I think that's the perfect, perfect word for what happens in this scene. We start very cold, very distant, and in the eyes, you know? and as... the more we do this, the more we approach each other for the for the shoot, the more we laugh, the more we connect, and the closer we are. yeah And I found that to be so simple and perfect.
01:37:19
Speaker
They're melting the ice between each other and... They're literally melting the ice! Yes! Yes! It all starts with... you look pretty.
01:37:30
Speaker
yeah yeahy i also wanted to reiterate how impersonal it is with the staff um like what i was talking about earlier of like the faceless people like we're solely focused on the rest of the in-universe world like they don't really exist like again once again it is these people that are like dramatic and like okay one more take y'all like we're almost done like all this all these people that are like off-center but also ah they like they become each other's worlds like eventually they don't see anyone except for each other um but i thought this was like i was on my rewatch and was like you know it's just there's something so impersonable about how i don't know anyone there is it their coaches is yuna back there like i don't jacob tierney and brendan the producer like it's actually them is it really that's so funny yeah it's actually them and
01:38:17
Speaker
And I love that we're the POV of the cameras. Because again, this is highlighting that we are not hearing the story from the POV of the audience. We are privy to the intimacy of this couple. And so we are close enough that we hear what they're saying to each other. We are laughing with them. We are part of that bubble.
01:38:41
Speaker
And the shadows are... somewhere else. So again, brilliant cinematography. All right, talking cinematography, we gotta to get the shot of the butts in the shower. let's go to the shower. Let's get to the shower. No, wait. We're going to the shower. No, there's something we need to do before that. no! Yes, we were talking about race. And there's one comment that ah is approaching a bit what we were asking for, but again, it's just teasing it and not delving deeper into it. And it's when Yuna is coaching Shane, and Shane is just like, oh, Ilya is just skating in the ice. my little princess and Juna's like pay attention well yeah because it's like the intro to this scene the transition yeah it's like you think that it's framed as where he's thinking about that conversation with Ilya and then we snap snap to when Juna is like Shane are you listening to me and he was um he's like looking down thinking about Ilya and so that's when you're first like I'm out yeah for our audio media flowers dancing and prancing around the screen And Juna is like, a lot of kids are gonna look up at you. A lot of kids who don't see themselves represented in
Sports and Cultural Dynamics
01:40:00
Speaker
this medium. Wait, I have the stat.
01:40:03
Speaker
I have the stat. Of course I do. While do you look for that, I just wanted to point out how um immigrants, children of immigrants, and most minorities live their lives...
01:40:15
Speaker
or we live our lives, depending on which point of my life we're talking about, with that weight on our shoulders about like how we are viewed as monolithic representative of our culture or group. And the way the pressure to not make mistakes, to be successful, to be virtuous is higher. um And there's a lot of trauma in immigrant communities about this. There's a lot of trauma in minorities to prove to the white, cis, et, western power that we are worthy.
01:40:57
Speaker
of being alive, of being given opportunities, and were constantly passing a test. And this is what Zuna is saying to Shane. And it was heartbreaking to me because that is what pull puts him back into the conversation. Before that, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about sneakers or, you know, like, you're talking about brands. I'm not here. I'm with Ilya. And suddenly you remind me of how I am the Russian boy in hockey.
01:41:28
Speaker
and of those little chains that are looking up at me and how I must be a good example and he locks in and it broke my heart because I've seen it you know and I've lived it you have to prove that even though you're Colombian you don't sell drugs, you know? You're you're not part of narco culture. That is just one example of my very super mega privileged life. But um it just broke my heart to see him come back to Earth after he was like crushing on Ilya so hard. Yeah, no, that's a really important perspective. Thank you for that, Lau. Thank you. Now we can go to the shower and do fabulous butts. Yeah.
01:42:09
Speaker
three one Yeah, now let's go take a shower. um Okay, so first of all, I would like to thank Connor's story for being the motivation for me to get an ass like his this year. i would just like to start off this conversation with, Jesus fucking Christ. Boy butt. We get poor boy butt. Someone who has an inability to grow an ass, you know, because I was scammed in the genetic lottery of my family. In the genetic lottery. I'm like, Literally, I sit in a hard chair and I feel the hard chair. There's no cushion there. I thank Connor's story for the fantasy of me maybe getting an ass eventually. That is half of what his is. Thank you.
01:42:59
Speaker
And truly, that is so accurate to hockey players. I follow a lot of hockey accounts on internet because I'm obsessed. And sometimes they be posting pictures from the gym and I'm just like, God damn, these men are double cheeked up on a Tuesday. like they have a whole bakery in there. They have the whole bakery and then some. Yeah. Like, I know we don't want to, like, yeah yeah, wow, wow, wow. Sexualized men? Really? Never? You don't want to? I don't want to, I don't, okay. Okay, so here's, here's my thing, is there has been, in the past, famous book talker who harassed and stalked a Seattle Kraken player after reading hockey romance novels. Which is not okay, by the way. um These people are at work when you go to hockey games. Like, that is their job. And if men showed up to your job and said things like, now kiss, or like, I want you to fuck me, or made weird things about you during warm-ups, you would also not be okay with it.
01:44:11
Speaker
Yep. No, that is very real. Please do not harass real hockey players, even if your butts look like that. You can appreciate by just liking an Instagram post and scrolling away. You can ask for their mood routine. Yeah. And try it. We need to go back to your social in private. Okay, stop being parasocial in hockey teams Instagram comments. Yes. Unless it's asking Hockey Canada why they let the rapists from the Canada 5 trial back into the NHL.
01:44:41
Speaker
and also if they can bring back the Canada fleece. You will have to explain that on and on and another time. Yes! I would love to know. No, no, no. no um Have I mentioned that the NHL is terrible yet? Has that been brought up? Yes, I believe we know. amazing. Back to the shower scene. Wait, also, you were going to bring up statistics earlier about, yeah i think, the Okay, so I looked. There are white players in the league and of the officials are white. So there's 35 current Black players on rosters, 19 players of Asian descent, eight players of First Nation or Indigenous descent, three Latine players, and three Middle Eastern North African players. Oh, wow.
01:45:25
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, that is very small. notice Yeah, very largely majority white. Yes, and a lot of them are Trump supporters. I'm so sorry to tell everyone. Like the Chucklefuck brothers, the Kachuck brothers, but I call them the Chucklefuck brothers.
01:45:40
Speaker
They are like, one of them is sitting on Donald Trump's like women in sports committee about how to keep trans women out of sports. oh So yeah, hockey's not good right now.
01:45:54
Speaker
Anyways, the show. Shower. Shower. Shower. Okay.
01:46:02
Speaker
Besides the bus. Okay. So Shane is just showering. Because we we need to break this scene down because some people are out there wild and on the internet talking about certain things. Some people are watching shows while they scroll on their phones and not paying attention. Some people should- I don't know how you do that with this show. Like, I don't know how you- I am, like, glued to the screen. Same.
01:46:27
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, but anyways, so Shane is, like, showering. Ilya walks in Shane, okay, from my notes, which I, like, slowed this down and, like, looked at it in a bunch of different ways. Shane looks first at him when he comes into the shower. And, like, it's like I've been in a locker room before. You don't do that. Like, you just kind of keep your eyes to yourself. So Shane, like, looks and stares at Ilya. Uh-huh.
01:46:54
Speaker
So there's an interest there, at least. And they, like we said, they flirted before this. There's been an interest. Shane has looked at Ilya before. Then Ilya looks at him, looks down, and like, raises his eyebrows. Because Shane's getting hard, right? He's getting a semi.
01:47:15
Speaker
And so then Shane's like, yo, fuck off. Like, embarrassed. Right? Super embarrassed. You don't sport semis in that. with your bros with your guys it is a boner free zone and then shane looks back even after he's like fuck off he like looks back and makes eye contact with ilia again and so then ilia's like wait do you want me to fuck off or like i if i was ilia i would be like i am missing like all of the things right and then
01:47:47
Speaker
like ilia starts jacking off like and she lets it go on and then he's like whoa not here not here like and then he's trying to like here go back and be like forget it happened like because i think he like gets out of the shower and is like oh like oh shit this could end up really badly for me because if it gets around that i'm gay like that could go badly for my team that i'm not even on yet like Yeah, and he wants to me be respectful to Ilya, which is why he says, hey, we can forget it happened, it can be no big deal. He's, like, trying to play it cool, which, obviously, he's not cool. Have you ever played cool? No. And I... Or tried to?
01:48:24
Speaker
No, he's literally a day in his life. No. He has tried. I will also say, I don't know if he has tried and failed. I know we have a note about the anecdote about the cock stock, but I also want to say the shoe gets me every time. Every single freaking time. It's so funny. He's like, because obviously waiting for Ili. He's like mostly dressed. He's sitting on the locker room bench. He's like obviously waiting for Ili to come back.
01:48:44
Speaker
And so he's like, he's like waiting, he's like putting on his clothes slowly, but he he wants to he wants to play it cool again. And so he like goes to pick up his shoe, wants to see that Ilya is like walking towards him, but then he sees the towel test and he drops it!
01:48:58
Speaker
My favorite, my favorite every time. Like he just absolutely fumbles that shit once he sees it. He's like, oh my God, it's hilarious. I see that point where he's like, he's like trying to be like, you're not going to tell him. Cause like Shane doesn't trust him. And this is something I talk about in the next section when we get to the room, but Shane doesn't trust him. Like, and Ilya is kind of like, I feel like I have an inherent trust with this person because I've done this before, but Shane's never done this before. So he doesn't like know and he doesn't trust him. And so that's why I think in that moment, he's kind of like, let me cover my bases. Let me cover your bases and just be like, we can forget it.
01:49:34
Speaker
Yeah. I want to talk about two things. It's the, how this scene is again, very nonverbal. You can see I'm obsessed with that. because I don't know how that works. In human real human interaction, for me, must be verbal because I don't get the other stuff. But they do, and I envy them. So there's a lot of looks, as ah Lauren kindly reminded us in the second-by-second summary of the scene. But I just wanted to point out that we only get two like two sentences during the shower. It's fuck off and not here, right?
01:50:08
Speaker
The rest is all eyebrow movement, eyes looking places, and hands putting soap in places. That's it. I just wanted to shout out to the hilarious anecdote of the cocksock. So for those who are not very familiar with the garments that are used for intimacy scenes, this is literally like, they call it a cocksock because it's literally like a little bag that, uh, yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like a nylon bag. Like a nylon bag. And for other types of or scenes where there's there's friction, they will add a pad to, like, avoid you feeling the friction. But, uh, since this is wet,
01:50:48
Speaker
shower they stuck and and they're not touching they stuck to the pouch but the pouch kept getting wet so yeah between in between takes they had to like either I don't remember Hudson said they changed it or just like squeeze it while they wrap a towel around them because it was getting wet. So, um yeah, intimacy garments and showers, that is tricky and you really need someone who knows how their garments are gonna work before they pitch them to actors and to directors. Which is not to say that Chala Hunter didn't know. This is just hilarious, but it worked. They kept... And this is for those who are not... who have not been reading about intimacy coordination. I just want to say, this is not only for the actors not to be fully naked in a scene and to protect them, which is of course very important, but it's also to protect the camera crew, the light crew, the boom crew, and Everyone in there deserves to have their boundaries respected, not only the actors. yeah So even if an actor feels super comfortable with frontal nudity, the team might not, right? Or the other actor might not. right So that's very important. And also something people don't have don't keep in mind and this will be relevant for the next intimacy scenes that we will talk about, is ah you also have to protect your actors against STDs. are you know like
01:52:19
Speaker
You don't want genital ungenital contact. Because that brings a lot of help, not only a lot of like legal issues regarding mental health, which is very important, about safety, about the difference between like a romance TV show and porn, but also you want to keep everyone healthy and safe from exchanging ah different types of fluids.
01:52:46
Speaker
So yeah, that is important, and you can follow a lot of intimacy coordinators. um hudson was literally there was some interview that i was watching i think it was maybe his cnn interview that came out today but he was literally talking about how like he's very comfortable on set but like intimacy coordination is also like making sure that the cast and crew like feels like fine he was like you know like when like a light shines on that spot you want to make sure that like that part is covered so that you have like the consent of like of the other person that you're like aware of their boundaries too and so he was talking about that in a little bit i think it was his sienna interview today yeah and he also he also mentioned mentioned cis it in the queen one that you did earlier this week or last week i don't remember and
01:53:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and also something that is important to understand is that intimacy coordination is about how to best tell the story through intimacy. So maybe you feel comfortable being being fully naked, but your character wouldn't. Yeah. You know, like there's a lot that is not about how careless you are with nudity.
01:54:01
Speaker
And I think Chala Hunter did a great job here. Really? We never have frontal nudity. We saw the bots, we talked about them, but we don't see the crutches. And so we rely on hand movement and eye movement to insinuate what is happening. And they do a great job here. I think we all got the point, right? yeah Shane is getting hard. Ilia notices. Ilia starts jerking off. That wasn't lost on us just because we didn't see yeah full frontal and i think like on this scene.
01:54:34
Speaker
I could maybe see like an argument for like dub con, like dubiously consensual. But I think like when you take into thought about like how much like tension and buildup that her has already kind of been just between like them looking at each other and their nonverbal communication, that's where I see like the dubious consent kind of maybe falling apart a little bit. um But also, like, we do have to realize that, like, Shane is, like, petrified of being outed. And so, like...
01:55:09
Speaker
like, that does, like, mess with his consent boundaries a little bit, but Ilya doesn't know that yet. Like, Ilya doesn't know that Shane is being petrified of being outed. They have, like, barely even talked up until this point. This is just... But still, Ilya's very careful. Yes. I know that what we understand as careful might vary, but he starts slow, looks at Shane, and then continues. He's, like...
01:55:34
Speaker
ready to stop at any second. And as soon Shane says, not here, it's over. It's over. It's done with, they're done. Exactly. And so that's where I think like some people might maybe like be projecting like stuff about consent and like what we know about consent, like largely as a society onto that scene. Where we don't know like what they've expressed, like they don't even know what they've expressed is like okay or not okay in their consent boundaries, which I think leads us really beautifully into them having sex for the first time.
01:56:06
Speaker
So Amanda, do you want to give us your thoughts here first since Lau and I have been yapping? Yes. Um, yeah, I mean, even before they get to that part, we see, we had like, Shane on, week because that is he's on waiting mode, which is the most, like, relatable thing ever. It's so funny because this is anxiety. This is, like, so me because I show up anywhere early just to be, like, Lauren, you know this, I'm always, Amanda's not early, it's, like, where the fuck's Amanda? Like, Amanda okay? Because I'm just, and then I'll sit my car and I'll do waiting mode and I'm, like, doing all my Twitter and whatever. And I think that him getting- Low-key, low-key me this whole day before we recorded. Oh, no, literally, like, every time,
01:56:42
Speaker
Like I don't want to you know, we're gonna talk a little bit about my personal life But every time I have a hookup come over there is there's a list of things that we do before the hookup comes over that is waiting yes yes knows everything that He would need to do because this is his first foray into anything we assume almost He wouldn't know that there is other actual prep work to be done, but like the whole It's so it's so was it You know, but like he's so like, it's a little like, it's just sweet. Like, like a so he's like, wait, is this a date? It's not a date. And I just think that that was really funny and relatable. And then Yuna in the elevator, and it's like she knows with Ilya, she knows who she is, but i don't know if he knows who she is, but I think he would know who she is, and he's purposely defending his assholes.
01:57:22
Speaker
He does. He does. He does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does. I think he's seen, he's seen Yuna with Shane. And when she's like, oh, I'm going down. I like to picture Ilya and his head being like, me too.
01:57:38
Speaker
No, I'm going down. Oh, yeah, me too. I'm going to take this. On your son, actually. Okay, first of all, Sea Lion is a perfect song for this. I love Feist in general. um i Jacob Tierney, whoever selected all of the music. I mean, I know we have this in our notes, but...
01:57:56
Speaker
perfect perfect this i feel like this song monchtu wetleg who i got to see in september like monchtu is so good and then i tattoo is all the things she said like i cannot listen to it without crying anymore i don't think but anyways music is incredible c-line's so good calling back to like that' something amanda was talking about earlier just like the technology from like 2008 there's a taxi service pamphlet on the table it's like how to call a taxi and I was like because Uber didn't use it and it's in small touches that just adds so much to it that really puts you in it because it is like they can't just text each other what room number they're in all the time and I'm like we'll get there but like they just the way they communicate and like it's not like the constant communication every day that we experience now in in this stage of technology back then where it's like oh i'll see you in like six months and we can talk then like it is very it's different and i like it it's small touches it's great and um you're talking about music lauren and i just want to say
01:58:58
Speaker
Again, i don't want to delve too much into what i I already said for the previous intimacy scenes, but not having music during the first sex scene, during those first cases. So important, again, breathing and probably for like clothes, touching and sucking and all of that amplified. That's what we need.
01:59:21
Speaker
That's how you build intimacy yeah through the ears of your public. So there you go. Yeah. yeah And the moaning, the moaning, the moaning.
01:59:31
Speaker
The moaning? The holding Shane's face by his throat? i was like, God damn! but the way yeah the um something The way he guides Shane very gently against the wall. You know, like, the duality of men is guiding a gently exactly to peen against the wall.
01:59:56
Speaker
so yeah and I think like him like trying to ask questions is like is this your first time and I think that is like different from the the mirror the shower scene where they were Ilya is like trying to come on to them and she's maybe not understanding it or maybe is like not confused that's where he's why he says not here and then now they're in the room and they have privacy and then Ilya can get the like find that the like pin him but also say like what is your experience like where are you at trying to meet him where he's at and I think that is very sweet and it is very like we'll touch on this again where people will say Ilya is toxic I don't think this is toxic I think this is sweet and this is the very first time and there's a lot of things I find in this scene is reassuring it's just Ilya is always grabbing like Ilya is a boob man in both genders as we can tell from every time he grabs Shane's chest that's his emotional support titty okay don't take it from it And we support that. And the line where he's like, let me show you how to do this, kid.
02:00:51
Speaker
I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. Shane's dead. Shane's on the floor. Shane's puddling. Yes. I'm dead. Shane's dead. We're all dead. We're all dead. Connor's story has very defined lips. Like, lying. So when he's moaning and he lifts just one side of his upper lip, you know, like...
02:01:16
Speaker
Don't talk to me about it. Excuse me? Yeah. yeah Excuse me. no literally. Oh yeah, and Shane folding his clothes. Oh my god, Shane folded his clothes. love this. he There is, I don't know, we'll have to keep an eye out for it but I don't think there is a single time that we don't see him fold his clothes. I think it is almost just about every single time. He doesn't fold his clothes the second time they have sex in the first episode. I don't think he folds his clothes. We don't see it when he's at the house in Boston. Sorry, I immediately am cutting you. like I think we only see him fold his clothes twice and I I associate that with nervousness when he's the one yes or he's the one removing them
02:01:57
Speaker
I also associate it with like nervousness. yeah like I think as he gets more comfortable with Ilya, the clothes don't need to be folded. Because I know he does it in Vegas in the pet house.
02:02:10
Speaker
Yes, but he doesn't do it when they have sex in Montreal for the first time. True. And he doesn't do it at the end of this episode. But yes, that is so like that's so type a of him. I think...
02:02:22
Speaker
I think the clothes folding replaced Shane wanting to take a shower after sex yes every time. Because Ilya is the one taking a shower in some of these scenes in this episode, but not Shane.
02:02:34
Speaker
I think Ilya showering after they have sex is to create distance and to not have them like cuddle and not have an emotional connection. Exactly. um I think that's why Ilya goes and showers. Because like otherwise they would just like lay there and talk to one another, but God forbid they talk to one another! Which Speaking of talking, we have Shane comment on Ilya's English, and I see Lauren, you asked what do we think this is for? Do you want to unpack this a bit? i think like i think this scene, I think we see them be like comfortable for with each other, and we see like the beginnings of their dynamic, which I think we talked about a little bit in our notes, but like...
02:03:08
Speaker
We see like them in different interactions, ways that we haven't seen in them interact before. We see like a very jokey, like joking Ilya, which we have not seen before. We see like a little bit of like
Shane's Internal Conflict
02:03:20
Speaker
teasing from him. We see Shane kind of like giving into humor a little bit more. I think it like expands their character dynamics.
02:03:29
Speaker
And it really gives us like who they're going to be together, like throughout this series. Yeah. We see like, we also see like so much of Shane's anxiety about this, like, especially in that like post not clarity moment where um Shane's like, he doesn't trust Ilya. He's like, you're not going to tell anybody. Right. And that is so ah like, this is, this is going to be a long moment. So I'm, I just need to talk about this. Like, At first, when I saw when i like saw that in and the scene where Shane was like, i you know, like, you're going to tell anybody about this. I was like, that's a little selfish of Shane because, like, he doesn't realize, like, how much that also, like, people finding out what also hurt Ilya, especially, like,
02:04:10
Speaker
when we think about russia and ilia's like family dynamic but then i was like okay but the closet is such like a clusterfuck like ah as a person who's been in the closet it makes you like so only aware of yourself and it's like when you come out of the closet you find that you have like community and you're not isolated And that even if you're in the closet and you know that there are gay people out there, that there are people who would like be your community and things like that, like it is still petrifying to take that step into the light. And so I was like, I don't think maybe now that Shane is selfish. I think the closet itself is selfish and it makes you.
02:04:55
Speaker
like not have those links um and not have that community this is also shows like as elliot gets up to leave like this is a really big moment in shane's life like this is the first time he's ever been intimate with another person from what we know and like there should be like a celebration about this like that should be like a big moment for him but because the closet is so oppressive it's so selfish it makes you like just become this like hall of a person he doesn't get that and that's just like i think one of the most striking parts of this episode is like that aftermath of them having sex for the first time yeah and we see that in in the body language in the clothes whose clothes who isn't in which moment we notice something that is gonna be a constant in this episode shane never takes off his socks and
02:05:47
Speaker
We can see his body relax and tense depending on what is going on. um Folding his his arms again, closing off. So yeah, the closet isolates you and won't let you yeah really have the intimate relationships you wish to have with your community in the same way that being out of the closet will help you. i'm I'm not saying that like for anyone who's still in the closet and doesn't feel safe to come out, it doesn't mean you won't find a community. You will. But it does trips to your brain and makes you paranoid in a way that you suffer a lot. And we see that
02:06:24
Speaker
with Shane. And we will see that with Ilya as well. It's not just Shane. Ilya will also respond to that fear in a very similar way in the future. Yeah, I really like this, like, who's clothed and who's nude kind of comparison. I think it's really interesting that we see how it sets this dynamic for us and this almost ritual for them of the the talking and the hesitancy and then giving into it and the post-not clarity and the leaving and on-off emotional availability. Because they obviously had this very emotional, intimate moment where they're like, you make me curious, like, I make you curious, like, that whole thing. And then now where Shane is, like, standing there at the end and is like, we don't, or Shane's, like, sitting there and Ilya is leaving and he's like, oh, we shouldn't do this. It's like the, he's almost making it like a will they, won't they? Where he's like, oh but we can't, you know? But really, he's staring at it where they're like, we can't. And then they do. And then he's like, we can't. And then we do. And it sets up this dynamic that gets more and more complex as we go on.
02:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. I've realized that I've been quoting Eve Sedgwick's epistemology of the closet, which is like one of the foundations in queer studies
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
02:07:30
Speaker
and tackles the question of what makes up human sexuality. But I've basically been quoting that when talking about Jane in the closet. So here we are. Hell yeah. So some final recapping thoughts. Not everything, of course, but just little things. So overall, this spans just about three years. The first few years we meet them from their rookie season. I mean, of course, that's where we get part of where we get our lovely name here from into the first year on their respective teams. We get their first few hookups, which are really fundamental in setting their dynamic and their foundation.
02:08:01
Speaker
And we get a bit of background on their lives, their personal struggles, and some of their own side characters and their their friends and their family and how that can interfere and interact into their relationship here.
02:08:11
Speaker
Ilya's a grown-up for their idiosyncrasies and some of their kind of little habits like Shan wearing socks or folding his clothes or Ilya's smoking and whatnot. If any of you are ever wanting to get more into hockey or you want to know about current happenings on the and NHL, I'm basically living on threads at this moment. And I also run our Instagram. So you always can get in contact with me there. I can give you all of the good information. and I'll keep dropping hockey hints throughout this series.
02:08:42
Speaker
Yes. I think if... You're doing a great job there. Yeah, well, you're doing a great job. I'm trying to keep keep up on the Twitter, and I don't know if I'm as successful. but I think I'm just making the threads, like, my own personal account about Heated Rivalry. i think that's brilliant.
02:08:58
Speaker
Oh, if listeners do want to, like, email us or contact us or DM us, our email is srspod at protonmail.com. That's in the description everywhere, but that's s-r-s-pod, p-o-d, p o d at protonmail.com.
02:09:10
Speaker
P-R-O-T-O-N mail.com. So feel free to reach out to us there with questions or concerns or anything. DM or comment us if you have specific input. I think we're going to also set up like a little listener voicemail box if people want to share their specific takes on specific things. That'll be really cool to get listeners input on things. Yeah, anything else we should add? Follow us on all of the socials except Blue Sky. i think we're on we're on Twitter, Instagram, threads.
02:09:35
Speaker
um listen to us wherever you can we're on youtube spotify of apple podcasts other podcatchers etc have your friends listen to us tell us tell your mom about us i guess tell your parents about us if you watch um if you know hudson if you know Hudson Williams, Cotter Story, Jacob Tierney, or Rachel Reed personally please educate them on this podcast and let them know um if you know Ksenia please like tell her to dm me bang my line immediately you could slide into my dms any day anytime i'm happy to have you there um and i yeah i i think that's all i have to add allow do you have anything no uh this was great i enjoyed yeah
02:10:24
Speaker
Well, stay tuned. Yeah, stay tuned for next time. We'll cover episode two, hopefully. um won't be as long, but we did have like our intros and stuff in this one. And hopefully we've already established some some basic ideas that we follow. And so we'll be able to to follow that thread line through future episodes.
02:10:41
Speaker
Yes, we'll see you ladies at the cottage next time for episode two. Bye!
02:10:49
Speaker
Thanks for listening.