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"Olympians:" Consent Kings, Queer Disasters, Who Fell First?
437 Plays3 months ago
In this episode, we analyze “Olympians” with the big trip to Sochi, Russia for the Olympic games. We get context for Ilya's Russian struggles, we discuss who fell first, and of course we dissect the infamous Vegas scene. See below for things we reference during the episode. Thanks for listening!
- Stanley Cup playoffs
- Threads post Lauren mentions
- Tweet that Amanda mentions
- Anal Sex 101: a beginner's guide of tips for how to have anal sex
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Twitter: @SRSpod
Threads and Instagram: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Since Rookie Season'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Since Rookie Season. Well, the summer before. A heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from the Crave Canada television series, the Game Changers novels, and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon.
00:00:17
Speaker
Today, we're looking into episode two of the series, Olympians. and So stay with us for our first trip to Russia, text messages, and Ilya almost getting murdered at a dark alley in Montreal.
00:00:31
Speaker
You will murder me. Maybe. Get in there.
00:00:40
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Welcome back. I hope you enjoyed two-part of episode one, Rookies. Sorry, we literally could not stop yapping about all of the different things in that episode. And I feel like it also just went long because there's so much in that episode. Like it's like three years of time.
00:00:58
Speaker
But we're hoping to keep it sweet and maybe not short for this episode. So just as a reminder, what we're focusing on for our first season is we are looking at what makes heated rivalry so
What makes the rivalry addictive?
00:01:13
Speaker
addictive. Like what is it in this story and the way that it was given to us that allows for this amount of obsession and rewatching? I believe I am now on rewatch number nine, if I am correct. Okay, so thank you for that rewatching number nine. I lost count of mine, so... Yeah, yeah I rewatched the whole series last weekend.
00:01:39
Speaker
And we're so happy for you. That's how you should spend your free time. Okay, so I just wanted to get us through some overview what this episode is about. We are going to get a very fast montage of text messaging during the year of 2011, 2012, 2013. And eleven two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen and yeah it ends there. Then we land in And then we're going to have the...
00:02:07
Speaker
Olympian
Texting montage and cultural events
00:02:09
Speaker
season. So they're going to be in Russia at the Olympics. And that's basically what the... So the episode is going to delve a lot into Ilya's very complicated relationship with his family and his country.
00:02:25
Speaker
how Shane is processing that information and also ah a lot of smart and cute scenes between them and how they text, which is fascinating. So oh god that's basically what we have in this episode.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, we we start in yeah summer. twenty 2011, so 2011, in both Montreal and Russia, because this is our texting montage ah start. And for to keep up with our tradition of bringing some information of what was happening in the world regarding queer queer history, i don't i just want to shout out to my country, Colombia gets a Supreme Court ruling saying same sex couples constitute a family. And yeah congress they give congress Congress two years to write it into law. We also have a lot of back and forth in the US like legislation regarding marriage equality
Personal stories from 2011-2013
00:03:24
Speaker
depending on the states. And the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada starts allowing same-sex marriages in their church.
00:03:32
Speaker
We love that. What were you doing in 2011, Lau? I was discovering that I was queer. Yes! ah It was a lot. It was a lot. It was... You are queer history!
00:03:46
Speaker
You are queer history! It was so intense. But we're happy it happened, right? What about you? I love that. 2011. Okay, let's think about how old i was
00:04:00
Speaker
And this was a very, very formative time in my life because I was a One Direction stan. had a 1D updates blog. I had so much going for me at this time. i was watching them perform Torn. on YouTube like a million times. I used to make, one of the things they would have us do like as early stands is we would make YouTube playlists of their music videos, like when the music videos would drop and we would put them on a playlist and it would be the only video on the playlist and you would just let it like repeat in a tab in your background so that the like count of the video, like the amount of views would go up.
00:04:50
Speaker
ah sounds about right yeah I was fully obsessed I was writing one direction fan fiction on quote of um shout out to quote of um
Texting dynamics between Shane and Ilya
00:05:02
Speaker
I was not a hairy girl though And at that point in my life, I was a girl too. So um i always loved Zane. Zane was my favorite. He was like my little emo boy.
00:05:14
Speaker
he was everything to me. So I was a huge, huge Zane fan. But that was that was all I was doing was One Direction and Pizza Restaurant. Amanda? In 2011, that summer i turned 10, so I would have been going- Oh, baby!
00:05:30
Speaker
i know, I know, I know. i don't have my queer awakening until way later. Not much later though, um only a few years later. But i that was when I was going into fifth grade, probably fifth fourth or fifth grade, so I was probably reading Percy Jackson, picking fights with boys, probably the smartest kid in the room, but not understanding what that meant and how that meant I interacted with people. Yeah, went to public school around that time. So was at a private school before the economy collapsed.
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, not a lot fighting with my younger brother and um starting to starting to develop my own personality and becoming a human. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think this was like very, forward very formative time in my life. Cause this is when I got Tumblr. So like I was a part of the Tumblr 2010s heyday, you know, like think I was maybe identifying, maybe that wasn't until like my junior year, but I think I was definitely identifying maybe as like bi curious, but like I didn't it like, ah like my parents didn't know. And that was like very select friends who knew that. but It's Obama's first administration. so yeah Lauren and I are contemporaries and we were in the feelings and the Tumblr and the Bicurious era. ah Discovering this label bisexual was... Yes! What does it mean to be bisexual?
00:06:53
Speaker
right yes you mean you don't have to pick exactly i can be greedy i
Queer milestones and personal impact
00:07:00
Speaker
love being a greedy bisexual just kidding that bisexuals are not greedy but we kind of are anyway also a shout out shout out to that boyfriend of mine in 2011 telling me i couldn't be bisexual while i was with him because he couldn't compete with women i just want to say he was right he can't He was so right. Sorry, love. That was the only thing he was right about. That was the only thing he was right about. And you know what? Ilya Rosanoff is also probably at this point in his life being like, am i bisexual? Yes.
00:07:36
Speaker
And you know what? We love that for him. and We're going through a bisexual awakening all at the same time. And that makes me feel really connected to Ilya Rosanoff. I feel seen. I feel seen. 2011 is a very short scene. It's the beginning of our montage. And we address the Vegas thing, like the whole Shane leaving without saying, see you next season and all of that after the kiss. And we really quickly resolve it.
00:08:02
Speaker
Ilya is like, are you still mad about Vegas? And Shane is like, I'm not mad about anything. And so we start the episode by making clear that the conflict that we ended with last episode is water under the bridge. We're teenagers, we're we're young, we we get into other things and we forget that we were even mad at people.
00:08:22
Speaker
And what also is the scene where we establish the dynamic of the texting mote montage. So we're going to see during this montage that take us through three whole years that we're going to see a lot of paralleling on what Shane and Ilya do separately. Yes. So when one of them is running, the other one is as well. When one of them is at the gym, the other one is as well. They even chew on strings at the same time.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yilea with his necklace and Shane with ah the things in his hoodie. So we're being told like, yeah, we might be doing distance friendship, but we are connecting emotionally. We're so connected that we're doing the same thing. And Amanda, do you want to say something i' about the tech?
00:09:08
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so this is something that I'm tracking as well. I have it on my list of things to track is the technology. we
Early Tinder culture and digital dating
00:09:14
Speaker
see that We see it start to slowly shift here. we see It's different than it was in the in the previous episode. it's just just i Mainly I think I'm talking about the interface, at least for us as audience members. where We're seeing that shift a bit. It's becoming a bit more fluid, less chunky, less blocky. And I think that contributes to it as well because I do remember my parents getting smartphones at this time. and the iPhone coming out and all of that. And then we really see their tech start to evolve here and eventually we'll be moving to touch screens, but we still see them, like they're texting from emoticons to emojis at some point. And I think it's really cool that we see over the course of these years how their tech evolves. And I think it's something fun to look at. And we get a dick pic. Like, most importantly. Oh yeah, eventually we get a dick pic in this montage.
00:09:55
Speaker
We get a dick pic. Like, get a dick pic. we get a dick that's not and it's not until like 2012 or 2013 but like i was on tinder when tinder like first started like i've been on tinder really like because i was like freshly 18 when tinder came out so you used to in the early days of tinder is you used to be able to send photos to one another and it was like snapchat wild I've never been on Tinder, so I don't have context. meaning The amount of unsolicited dick pics I just got from men all of the time, I kind of felt like Shane a little bit in that scene. you know because it would just I am so sorry.
00:10:30
Speaker
so It would just be like one of my folks out to dinner with my parents, casual. i I know I said that I like that we don't have to pick like bisexuals and pansexuals. We don't have to pick a side and I love that for us. But also, dicks are not that nice to see, you know? It's not like my favorite part of the human body. definitely also ah also from that picture ilya is not nine inches and yeah i did you so that bad i think everyone agreed it wasn't yeah i don't think he's lying both both of the nine inches and that is not yeah i think he just chose a random pig and send it to it no which that means he had to like google it and you know what i've done that before
00:11:22
Speaker
I've done that before. When someone's pissed me off
Ilya's bisexual awakening
00:11:24
Speaker
and they've been like, send me a picture, I've just Googled something and sent it to them. You know, that makes you gay. I was going to say, Ilya, that makes you gay. You googly. Googly, you dick. I think we already knew that Ilya was gay, though, baby. Like, I it's just... um Yeah, no, I mean, there's definitely like a lot of flirting over these messages. Like, yeah, definitely. And but Ilya mostly, right? We have Ilya being really flirty and Shane is super shy and avoidant. We have the infamous come while you're in Boston.
00:11:56
Speaker
And but Amanda for our count, English comment from Shane. about grammar and Ilya's like, no, read that again. i It's correct. It's what I meant to say.
00:12:08
Speaker
We also have see you next year. I still want that asshole for the count as well, Amanda. And before, there's something else I want to track. But before that, a few highlights of these ah three years that we rush in this montage.
00:12:24
Speaker
In February 2012, this is really sad, ah Russia passes anti-LGBTQ ruling with fines up to $17,000 US dollars for offenders. ah In December 2012, Mexico leaves the ban for men who have sex with men to donate blood.
00:12:42
Speaker
Which is really exciting. Which still isn't lifted in the United States, by the way. I'm not sure if Colombia still has it. Last time I checked, they did. Same-sex marriage becomes legal in Maryland in January 2013.
00:12:55
Speaker
Same for marriage and adoption in France a couple of months later than that. And June 2013, Russian parliament issues a ban on gay propaganda.
00:13:05
Speaker
So it's a good year for same-sex marriage ruling in many states of the US, but it sucks in Russia. So that is also giving us a lot of context on how Ilya's relationship with his own identity and Russia gets even worse.
00:13:23
Speaker
Because this is the
Personal and cultural growth
00:13:24
Speaker
era that Pudding is like, this is the era that Russia got worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. As he's actively flirting with Shane. As he's actively flirting with Shane. We have the beginning of the, what I like to call the winner losing dynamic between them. So the whole, if Boston wins, of if us Montreal wins, so who gets to like ask for things during sex, depending on how well they did during a game. And I'm going to start tracking that.
00:13:52
Speaker
during this episode because I think we do have a lot of dumb sub dynamics as well but a lot of people are mixing the two and I want us to be very mindful of how even if Shane is usually subbing in the dumb sub dynamic when he wins we get stuff like Ilya telling him where do you want me what do you want you know so it's It's something that we need to be mindful of that we don't conflate both of those. like the
00:14:25
Speaker
what We're going to talk about this later. We're going to see it in the scenes that we have in this episode. And I want to shout out Ilya's use of emojis because I think he's hilarious. He's so cute. i love I love that we get to see his like little humor here. I think this is also coming from a hockey standpoint. They're like joking around and Ilya says to Shane, he's like, playoffs are fun. How come you're not here? And for Ilya to be drafted, go through his rookie season and then be in playoffs the next season. That's insane. Like that does not really happen. And like Boston, like remember I said in the first episode, like Boston was the worst team in the league the year they drafted Ilya.
00:15:09
Speaker
Like. So for them to be in the playoffs, to be one of the top 16 teams in the and NHL, that's wild. Like, Ilya is carrying that team on his back. Like, I don't know what the statistics are, but I'm sure I could find some. But that's that's crazy. Like, yeah, that's very wild. Like, even from what I remember about Chicago Blackhawks, I think Patrick Kane got, I think he got drafted in 2009 and then they won the cup in 2010. So, like, that's, like, that level, which is kind of crazy. And that does definitely not happen. um But he might have been drafted in 2008. But I have to look at that. Anyways. That's fascinating. I think that is a fun little precursor to, I mean, the end of this episode when Ilya does win the cup.
00:15:56
Speaker
which we'll talk about later. yeah We then go to fall 2013 and that's where we like kind of land and stop this very rushed montage. So we're still in that montage at the beginning of this, I like to call landing into this moment. But we're in Montreal.
00:16:15
Speaker
They're about to play against each other. And we get to see their dynamic in the locker rooms ali bit a little bit more. So before that, I just wanted to check in again. Where were we? 2013.
00:16:26
Speaker
Fall 2013. fall two thousand and thirteen I was 12. I had just turned 12 fall 2013. Yeah, I know. I know. it's when I'm 2001, so it's always like I was turning the year. It's a whole thing, but especially birthday is in summer. So I was going into sixth grade. um So I was, oh, God,
Evolving relationship dynamics
00:16:45
Speaker
it was the start of middle school, which sucks, which to be clear, seventh grade was my worst year. I feel it's true for many people. So I was i was on the cusp of my career journey, probably by maybe the next timeline or maybe the one after that, maybe by...
00:16:58
Speaker
2014 maybe 15 I was really really in my queer journey but this was the sixth grade was definitely the start of of me learning about other people and and queerness and people from other places and starting to fall in love for the first time with a boy crazy shit really just thumbs down Lauren's doing thumbs down yes I agree and thumbs down he sucked that way oh he sucked we hate him yeah yeah he blew so that's where I was was unfortunately stuck in the hell that is middle school little baby I was living in Europe. I had just graduated from high school and i spent ah like a month in Paris, a month and a half in Berlin. And then I went to see my family in the UK because my godson had just, he was turning one and I got to see him during his birthday. um
00:17:46
Speaker
Paris was crazy and it was my first gay party I went my first gay party We thought in my friend group that it was a queer party So we were excited because it would cater to everyone's interests. However, it was a men gay men party So I've never seen that many nude mentors in my life.
00:18:14
Speaker
I'm really happy for them. They were definitely having fun. um I saw a lot of drugs that I don't know what they were being passed through my group of friends. I am 100% sober, so I don't do any drug or alcohol or anything. So I was like a bit lost in the logics of stuff, but I had fun. It was the first party that I had gone to where the line for the women's bathroom was inexistent and the line for the boy the men's bathroom was so long it was terrifying. So that was a whole ah whole experience, very formative. I will never forget it. ah And it ended with me walking with my friends along the Seine River in the moonlight at like 4 a.m.
00:19:04
Speaker
because the subway was not open yet. So yeah, it was a way that's beautiful beautiful moment of my life. Paris 2013. I love that.
00:19:15
Speaker
I was actually getting ready to graduate from high school because I graduated a semester early because i hated high school. I had a 2.5 GPA. Relatable. And I wanted to get the hell out of there. um So relatable yeah again I was going through that. um But also during this time is when Gamergate was happening. And so I'm like having my feminist awakening. which was like a crazy time because I'd never really like, like my mom always like taught me to be very independent and stuff, but I, I never had like formally like realized like what feminism was. And like, I always heard about like really important women growing up, but like, This is like me like formally understanding what it is. Again, I'm on Tumblr like 90% of the time. i am less of a One Direction stan at this point. um But very importantly, i at least have seen One Direction in concert.
00:20:20
Speaker
And that is something I like to lord over everyone who enjoys Harry Styles' music. I got to see One Direction in concert and it was amazing. And I cried probably the entire time. So yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
Okay. In Shane and Ilya's life, we are probably playing one of our first games of the season against one another. Typically, NHL seasons, they start in October. And usually, like, the preseason happens in like, the end of September, early October. But typically the most important thing about preseason is that preseason is a way for rookies to like, they're more like focused on seeing like who is going to be on the roster. So like your pieces that are like solidified, like Shane and Ilya would be, would probably not play all of the games in the preseason. They would probably not even like travel. Yeah. And typically with preseason, you do like your three closest like teams for like just ease of travel. Like the Blackhawks always play the Detroit Red Wings, the Minnesota Wild and the St. Louis Blues in preseason. And that's because like each of those places is probably like an hour flight at most from Chicago. Ilya and Shane probably didn't meet in the preseason because like one of them probably didn't travel or their teams night might have not
Team dynamics and representation
00:21:43
Speaker
even played each other. Like Montreal might have played like Ottawa and Toronto instead of playing Boston.
00:21:51
Speaker
um So, or they maybe even played Buffalo. So yeah, that's your little hockey tidbit there. Why did you smile at me like that, Amanda? Yeah. Because you... First, you said the second T in Toronto, which apparently you're... It's like Atlanta, where you say Atlanta and Toronto. You don't say Atlanta and Toronto. And then also you said Boston, and I was like, yeah? ah Boston. I've been editing, and I hear... I keep hearing your accent coming, and it's gotten worse since you've been back in Chicago, and I'm like, what the fuck are you saying? It's gotten worse, they say. Like, when you were here, like, it was fine, but... Yeah, no. mean, Boston. Boston.
00:22:30
Speaker
and Boston. Okay. I want to talk about the the the team's dynamic ah because we see like the teammates have more of a role this episode. So ah we meet JJ who has a special place in my heart because he's Haitian Canadian and he also struggles with English. And we have our first like English as a second language doing something that people love because you're saying something sexual. So when he says like, if Ibrassanov fucks you, I'll fuck him right back. I want to shout out to Benjamin Roy, who was kind enough to answer
00:23:10
Speaker
My message on Instagram when I asked him if he had hiddenitian Haitian roots, he said no. I think he has, because of the flags he has in his threats profile, he's from Canada, but he seems to have some relationship with Barbados. I'm not sure exactly what. But he told me that a lot of his friends are from the Haitian diaspora. So I was so happy to get to talk about it with him. So yeah, I love this character, mainly because I'm biased. Yes. Lau has been talking about this character so much. and la So much. Like, he's most excited to talk about JJ. This is Lau's probably, like, one point that, like, will be a thing.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Listen, Haiti is in my heart. I've never been to Haiti, but... um i love haiti I love that country. Free Haiti, please. And please educate yourself in why Haiti is struggling economically since they managed to be independent from France. Look up the the debt that they had with France in exchange for their liberty.
00:24:16
Speaker
We have the burning of Rosanoff. And I love that everyone is making fun of JJ's English. And it's like, that makes no sense. And then this other guy is like, they're burning a Rosanoff dummy. And they do the same when we play in Boston, ah but with Shane. And JJ is like, what the fuck are you talking about? And yes and we see the beautiful Hayden and Shane dynamic.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yes, I love Hayden and Shane. Shaden truther. No, I'm just kidding. I am not a Shaden truther. I was curious about Hayden's age. Do we know an age comparison? I think I had had this question either last episode or or at another time. but i Because at some point we get Hayden and his wife, yeah I believe it was last episode, feeding him after the game was cancelled. And I'm curious if we know their age comparison because Hayden has wife and kids and Shane doesn't. And I know that that's it's just like points with other characters and parts of the books of like how old they are. And it's like oh they've got a wife and kids and I'm still single and alive. think they're contemporaries. Yeah, i think they're like similar aged. It doesn't say anything on his bio, but it is very common for hockey players to like meet their partners very young and like start popping out children very fast. Yeah, that was what I gathered, which is why I was wondering if Shane felt that pressure at all or if there was anything there with it. Probably. Because then by the end of this this of season one, Hayden has four four or five kids. He's very fertile.
00:25:43
Speaker
I kind of picture Shane as myself, like similarly when approaching like topics about children. Like I don't feel any pressure to have children, even though I'm like at the age where I should be having children. Like for information, I'm 30. Biological clucking.
00:26:03
Speaker
Okay, well, first of all that's not true. That's just a way. my mom had me at 50. That's just a way for men to subjugate women under the patriarchy or people who are able to have children under the patriarchy. So, and it's honestly, it's men who have a biological clock that is ticking. Say louder Lauren.
00:26:22
Speaker
First of all. First of all. But like I think like Shade is like still so baby. Cause like okay he's 23 right now. Like i I think he realizes that like women are maybe not for him at this point. And I think he's like I don't even like recognize that as like a like as something that I should be doing. Cause like There are plenty of like 23 year old hockey players that I know of that don't have children right now. But it is
Pressures on athletes
00:26:55
Speaker
common. Like it's not uncommon, but i i would say it's probably like 50% of the league. Especially, i think it's more common with maybe European players than it is with like North American and an American players. okay But I don't think, I personally don't think that Shane is facing any of that situation.
00:27:12
Speaker
kind of heat but i don't know what y'all think i think it starts feeling good later yeah i think definitely as we get closer to some of the rose landry stuff is like so people trying to push him to start thinking about it and especially once he goes to the aquarium with jane where it's like kind of i don't know if it's insinuated but it's kind of like oh people from your cohort are starting to settle down and whatever. And I know Ilya has his whole like ladies man thing that happens, but Hayden as his, his close friend, I'm wondering if he starts to, at at what point he starts to feel that. And if he does. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I mean, i can, so I think the pressure is more like when we talk about Rose, I think it's more like you're not seen with anybody like at all. Like you don't have any partners.
00:27:59
Speaker
you don't have any partners So, like, that's what's weird, I think, is, like, that part is almost like you have to, like, not be seen as gay.
00:28:14
Speaker
I think that's more of the issue. Yeah, you're rich, famous, attractive, athletic. Why? Why? Sidney Crosby supposedly has a partner, but it's he's, like, a very private person about it. But like he still gets like a why are you never around in public with your partner kind of deal. ah Like Austin Matthews also gets like a similar type of ah not critique, but like microscope.
00:28:40
Speaker
would say. Microscope is a really good way to put it because it is getting so into their personal lives. And we'll talk about it later, but like Scott Hunter like is such a person is such a private person. And so to be put under a microscope like that is so much pressure and is so like parasocial yeah and so... like It's it is disruptive because they're working, you know? you don't get to know everything about them. right But that's tendential. Yeah, I was just curious if y'all knew. Yeah, I think we're going to see more and more of that. Mostly episodes four and five delving to it. I think it's...
00:29:11
Speaker
Early, it's still very early in his career to be
Pre-game sexting and locker room dynamics
00:29:15
Speaker
like an issue. And we also know that Hayden is fertile as fuck. Yeah. That's... Yep. Rabbits and Hayden and his wife. Stay off of that woman, Hayden.
00:29:26
Speaker
Right? Stay of That poor woman. That poor woman. We have the sexting before the game. And Shane is fighting for his life. Like, he he manages to, at the end, handle it and, like, gain control. Like, if you're lucky, I'll text you after the game. But he is, like, freaking out. And we have, again, the English comment from Shane for Amanda's account.
00:29:52
Speaker
Thank you. And we have our... one of our favorite lines the blushing lines you're fully blushing no i do not blush russians do not do that while he blushes i love marlo and ross yeah yeah they're funny i thought marlo would be an marlo is also supposed to be elias h which is crazy um no but this is one of my favorite lines in in the whole series it's why i chose it for my little bios we put on social media rush student through this it's cracked me up so bad the first time i watched it i was like he's so because he's just such a like the denying and like it's so like they're giving such a middle school at this point like when you're crushing or you're texting your crush and you're like no what i don't know no and it's oh i hate boys i hate girls
00:30:39
Speaker
kill me so no i don't because illio starts it too he's like teasing him and talking and shane just gives it back to him you see we see shane go through this where he like struggles and he'll like will like delete whatever and then like retype it and say something else and change his mind so we see his thought process and so but he's like no fuck it i'm gonna give it right back to him and i adore it it's so i was like yeah that's my boy shane that's right how many times can you come while texting that's crazy if someone texted me that while i was at work How many times can you cum in an hour? look for- Yeah. No. I will go- Same.
00:31:12
Speaker
But I love seeing flustered Ilya. I wish we I hope we can get more of that in season two from what I haven't read the long game yet, but I can't wait for you to read the long game. I can't wait for you read long game. You're in for treat. I'm scared. Yeah, because I can't like no, we'll get there the no, we'll get there Amanda you have to read it. I'm reading patient. All right, patient. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. Okay.
00:31:38
Speaker
All right. Okay. oh Montreal wins. How is her count, Amanda? Montreal wins. So I believe that they might play more play each other more than we're shown. But right now, as of what we're shown in the series, um yeah this puts Shane up 3-1 because Ilya wins the first prospect cup and then Shane wins the second one. And then this is Shane's second win so in their third game. So Shane's up 2-1 by my count.
00:32:00
Speaker
And please, if any tracking, if anyone wants to correct me, please let me know. But I am taking meticulous notes. You're also right. They do... They do play each other more. So the and NHL is 32 teams split into two conferences. There's the East and the West conference. So there's 16 teams in each and you play. And then those 16 teams are split into divisions. And so there's eight teams in each divisions and the divisions are Metro, Central, Pacific and Atlantic, I believe are the four divisions. And so I believe Montreal and Boston are both in the Metropolitan Division. And so you'll see your division like opponents three to four times a year.
00:32:47
Speaker
But basically, there is a divisional game and Stanley Cup playoffs games are of seven. So if they ever were to play in a playoff game against each other, they would have up to seven
Analysis of first sex scene
00:32:59
Speaker
games in a row. So they would see each other a lot during the playoffs, but that is not something we see until the long game is when Boston and Ottawa, or I'm sorry, Montreal and Ottawa play each other in the playoffs.
00:33:11
Speaker
Thank you. there's your hockey info. So yes, they would see each other a lot more than we see them play. Yeah. So the count for everyone, the count that Amanda is giving us is just the games that we know of in the series.
00:33:24
Speaker
Okay. So then we have Shane's apartment scene. So Shane, Ilya is lucky and gets a text from Shane with address. He's not homeless. And we see Ilya. He's not homeless. Yes, he's not homeless. We see Ilya arriving at this dark alley and being like low-key terrified.
00:33:44
Speaker
And then shane Shane opens the door and Ilya has one of my favorite lines. You would murder me. same you will murder me maybe get in i love sassy shane so much so much love the angry kitten um meme that we get angry kid like with the hearts all over his head Somebody making that beat right now. He literally pins Ilya against the wall and he's like, why were you sexting? Why do you think it was acceptable to sext me before the game? And we get again, Connor Story, the actor that you are, with the silent, what the fuck?
00:34:30
Speaker
what
00:34:33
Speaker
to shane's rage uh paralleling in episode one when uh he tells shane to get on his knees and shane actually does it and ilia just melts wow wow so thank you connor story for giving us that yeah no thank you connor story i love this like little banter where like shane's like pissed off and then like ilia's kind of like teasing him back and they start walking up the stairs and then they like turn it into a race i was like this is so cute like this is that's so teenage boy i'm literally like kicking my feet and giggling right now i know they're in their early 20s at this point or somewhere in there but that's so a teenage boy to like race each other up the stairs like there's because they're so competitive and they're such athletes and they're always because they're always trying to beat each other and like as we said before like ilio loves beating shay and fucking racing all the time i hate them so they're so what do you mean
00:35:25
Speaker
They're so, they're so, they're so. Like, and this just shows that the rivalry is just the media. like it Like, they fully, like, they're very playful with one another. And they're competitive, and they can be competitive. And I, like, I, this kind of, like, calls back to that time and at the cottage where Yuna's like, did you ever let him win? And Shayne's like, do you ever let dad beat you at cards? Like, like so like they can still be competitive.
00:35:52
Speaker
Like, and like, they'll be cutesy babies with one another. And also sometimes they feel like the only person in a room that could be like actual competition for them is the other one. That's part of what they like about each other. Right. And also like the only person in the room that understands what the other going through. Like to be at the top of this game, like the way that they are.
00:36:18
Speaker
I fully headcanon, had I fully HC that like all of the NHL, like first overall drafts from like of the players, they have a group chat with one another to like support one another because... The NHL is so insane. I fully HC that. That makes sense. Yeah.
00:36:39
Speaker
Ilya's so excited to be in the house, which we see like echoed in the cottage. like He loves that Shane is kind of like letting him in, even if it's like just for sex. like Mr. Landlord? Mr. Real Estate?
00:36:53
Speaker
real estate He adores Shane. He adores Shane. Like this is, yeah, this is so, it's so, I want to like giggle this whole time because it's so cute. And then we get into the sex scene, which is so perfect. And I know in the books, Shane and Ilya have sex the first time that they like have sex with one another, fully like P and A sex, like full penetration. um But I like that Jacob,
00:37:24
Speaker
wrote it so that this is like the first time they have sex. Like I like that the first episode was not really focused on that, that It kind of like waited till the second episode. It just it just shows like the tension and like the excitement and like the slow burn of it all a little It also is reflected in the way these scenes are shot. So last two episodes of this podcast, I have been like tracking the way the cinematography and the choreography tell a story about this couple. And now we see it progress. So this episode, I'm gonna show like,
00:38:03
Speaker
In this essay, I will. This episode, I'm going to show you how we get a different story. Like, the story is advancing significantly, and we see that in the way these scenes are filmed. So we start with this kiss at the kitchen, and that is completely silent, and we continue with this, like, sound effects are enhanced for the kisses and the breathing.
00:38:26
Speaker
Then we get the where do you want me? So we continue with this win and loser game. So Ilya lost... like Boston lost the game so Shane gets to like do whatever he wants with Ilia is basically the logic here. Then we we we go to the bedroom and we have like the whole banter with the pillows and we have our like asshole and cigarette comments that are also very important and central to the way they connect and Shane responds with banter to Ilia. And we have the cutest, wholesomest, come here, no, i love you come here, bit.
00:39:06
Speaker
And what I want to point out here is that in the previous scenes, what and in Rookies, all intimate scenes had silence, except for the noise of kisses, breathing, moaning, and friction, which is what we get at the beginning in this kiss at the kitchen. But then it changes. This scene, we get music, but we still hear the moaning and a lot of the sounds that they're making. So we have like both. which is very interesting. And when we get to the last intimacy scene in this episode, I will share my thesis on why this change is implemented. But I did this cute little table of both consent count and banter during the whole sex scene that maybe Lauren can then post on our socials because I wanted to add up to the discourse that Ilya is our consent king in this series. We have five instances in which during the the whole moment of intimacy, Ilia is making sure that Shane is okay, that he wants what's happening, that he agrees that he's giving his full consent and that he's enjoying himself. Because he knows this is the first time Shane has anal sex. And is very aware and caring in this whole scene. So we have the you still want. When they're kissing on the bed already naked. But before the penetration. Then we have is it okay?
00:40:42
Speaker
When he begins the penetration. Then you still okay. And is still okay? Later when they change positions. So he wants to make sure like... This change didn't affect the way you're enjoying yourself here. And then when when Shane is about to come and Ilya is about to come, but he doesn't want to come if Shane is not already there. So we hear, are you? And then they come. So I love this constant use of questions about consent that show us first that it's not like you full stop everything and sit down and write a contract. But you're checking on your partner in a way that ah you know they're okay. And it really shows, again, how much of soft and beautiful person Ilya is.
00:41:35
Speaker
He really is aware of what this means for Shane. What a first time... doing what they're doing can do to a person if it goes wrong. And this is mixed with the banter to lighten up the mood. So we have the pillows, comment we have the don't worry, it will fit that I loved. We have the condoms joke that Shane takes all of these condoms and Hylia is like, wow, do you think we'll have enough? No, i love that. And then at the end, Shane is like, the bed is all dirty.
00:42:08
Speaker
And he is like, shut up. And then he says, i would take a shower now. So we see like he wants to keep the mood very light, but for Shane's comfort. And I really appreciate this, that he is able to reach that balance between hate.
00:42:27
Speaker
You are safe with me. I want you to be okay with everything we do. I want you to be comfortable. But also, let's have a laugh. Let's make fun of each other. Be a little bit less serious because we're both very nervous. We have our first poop grab that I love. Elio's emotional support titty. I love it on this. That's awesome. And we implement the fade to black. So what we do with this scene is that, and this is great because it communicates that we have a longer thing happening and we get to see snippets of it. So we don't get the whole act, which is also something I like.
00:43:06
Speaker
I like when series and movies that are very quote unquote explicit do this is like, okay, this is so intimate, so emotionally deep that there are things we're not showing.
00:43:18
Speaker
And there's some things we are. Like you get the idea of what's happening, but you won't be there the
Discussion on safe sex practices
00:43:24
Speaker
whole time. Also, if they showed everything, yeah if they showed everything, it would be porn. Yeah, it has porn to it.
00:43:32
Speaker
Better acting. No, literally! We're telling a story here, and part of the story is that they both lust and enjoy themselves here. no i I agree. Like, Ilya is consent king here. There's literally, like, so, so cute with one another. i love that there is, like, ass eating.
00:43:55
Speaker
happening in this scene oh yeah yeah that was because that is like I mean obviously has so many like connotations in um like media and things like that but I love that there is like that that's shown like okay Shane's like he's not wearing his thighs like earrings for no reason and he he's getting his ass eaten he's wearing his thighs like earrings I love this I, you know, you know, it's perfect.
00:44:27
Speaker
I would also like to remind all of our viewers, if you are interested in doing anything with buttholes, um use more lube than you think you are going to need. And also, please make sure you are clean down there. i know men don't typically wash their asses. for some reason. So, you know, just make sure that we all, you know, we cover all of those aspects. And also, just as ah one last thing, condoms usage is important. I know that the joke is that Shane has so many condoms, but sometimes there are things...
00:45:04
Speaker
That could hurt if you insert them into an asshole. And condoms often can help that from causing any kind of issues or things like that. So here at Since Rookie Season Pod, we are very pro-safe sex and pro-lube. In any way, shape or form, Rex. So yeah, i just wanted to i just wanted to get that part Thank you, Lauren, for that because we need to be educated. People need to be educated on this. Condoms is not are not just to, like, prevent pregnancies and stuff. like So I want to bring up a piece of discourse that I've been seeing floating around online and I keep reading in fanfiction it's the nickname of Rosie or, like, Rosanov or Rosie even, as Marlo says ah in episode four. Shane does not call him that. Shane says Rosanov and it, like, He like moans out the end of it. So that's really important because Shane never calls him anything other than Rosanoff. In both the books and in the TV show, even a like nickname is too emotional for them.
00:46:09
Speaker
So I want to point out that that point of discourse is very much him saying Rosanoff. and just having a moan at the end of it there are so many other great parts in this scene i mean lao's gone over a lot of the consent which we love because consent throughout a sex act is really important like you cannot just accept that like the first and only consent you get is like like it it it covers the whole sex scene especially when you're dealing with something like an asshole so please please if you are having anal sex if you are pegging someone for the first time check-ins all of the time be like ilia rosanov uh be a consent king or queen yeah or ruler you know
00:47:00
Speaker
yeah Monarch. um They do, mean, there is like flip around moment where they do like a little doggy style, which shout out to Hudson Williams and that back Oh yeah, I have a question for you, Lauren. Yeah. Maybe Amanda. Yes. So we have that change of position that I was talking about and you just mentioned that.
Podcast scandals and representation
00:47:24
Speaker
Don't you think that Conor's face is doing all the acting in... There's one moment. And because we don't want to show things that we don't want to show, we rely a lot on facial expression, as we talked about the last episodes we've made. But the way Conor's face is telling us what exactly he's doing with his penis. Did you catch that? Because I catch it in my last rewatch and I was fascinated by it. I love watching his face in these sex scenes anyways, like, because he is so hot.
00:48:03
Speaker
Real? Real. Agree. but No lie was told. yeah no, I love watching Counter-Story's face and his eyes, especially. Like, his eyes tell his whole story. And I think it's, like, really, like, the way that he, like, even acts out the, like, act of doing this because we all know that like with the cock sock it's like attached to their leg so they like are having to like pan climb all of this And I think he does like an amazing job of this. but I have one more thing to say. The forehead kiss.
00:48:35
Speaker
The forehead kiss. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Panicking. The panicking. The forehead. The very like, the very tender kiss. The very like, hit Connor getting back into bed and being like, you've killed me. And I'm sorry, Connor. Jesus Christ.
00:48:50
Speaker
Ilya getting back into bed and being like, you killed me. And hit Shane just leaving over and, like, kissing him and then kissing his forehead. Like, oh, so much for an no emotion. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of face and eye acting, Ben. yeah the panic in his eyes like i've this my opinion is that this is uh ilia's oh shit moment of the like oh shit i like you a bit too much and and shane says i believe a bit later i'll pull it out when i see it but i believe this is the general ka as consensus is that this is when ilia is starting like the forehead kisses he's like why did i do that and then he it hits him all at once and he's like oh hard agree all right amanda take it away on the steps
00:49:33
Speaker
Yes. So this brings us back down the stairs, and they're hanging out waiting for Ilya's taxi or car or whatever. And so it's where they were racing before. Now they're just sitting and hanging out. And I had saw it in an interview hudcon Hudson and Connor were talking. Apparently there was a discussion about if this was too sweet too early before they were all lovey-dovey, but I don't think so. And I do believe that they fought to keep it in of how sweet it is. Because it is it's so it's them getting to be with each other after the sexual tension been broken and they get to be so just with each other in their own space and they don't have to be like hockey rivals, they can just kind of not be bros, but they can like start to build that friendship and that foundation. and I think it's really sweet and really cute, especially the way that Shane is sitting there and like the hoodie and stuff, and they're like lingering and waiting and like kind of just like gazing little lovingly at each other, but they don't quite realize it yet. But then what they're talking about, they're talking the Olympics and the parents, and Shane is just still not getting the thing. It's a bit like how Shane wasn't getting it in in Vegas. Shane is just not understanding where Ilya is coming from. and I think he might definitely at the Olympics when we get there like in ah in a few minutes, but In this moment in Montreal, he's just not... He's not there. He doesn't get it. And they have they have some nice banter like about the bronze medal. They're very funny. Oh, and the hands-free comment. that is That one is very funny.
00:50:58
Speaker
um That one, I think, is more of like a book mention because it's not as obvious in the show. I do think that it adds a lot. Shane is blowing Ilya. And he's so into it that he comes... ah without Ilya touching him. t Honestly. So that's why he said like hands free.
00:51:17
Speaker
And you know what? Ilya did say, how many times do you think you can comment tonight? True. Yeah, but there's a comment and Ilya is so proud of that. And Shane, i don't know Shane's embarrassed, but I don't think he is, but he, it's definitely like a, oh man, I definitely know that one better, but no, Ilya is really funny teasing him about it. And I bet that that's a definitely a goal for Ilya to have later is like, I'm going see what I can do to make him come without doing the least amount of stuff. But Shane shane is just so into it and into Ilya that it happens. And sha yeah, it's it's really funny. And it is referenced a few times in the book, I believe.
00:51:52
Speaker
And I feel like the staircase moment is like, very relatable like ah my best friend and I were recently re-watching this um together and she was like how many times have you been there where you're like waiting for your hookup to leave and you're like still a high on the and like burdens of sex and you're like sitting there while they're like putting out their stuff and you're just like I'm just so happy right now I just like kiss you again like I've been there. I've been there. Like, I feel like that is so common. Even if you're like, I'm never going to see this person again.
00:52:27
Speaker
You're still very much like, God damn, that was a great time. Like, you know, like beg my line again, hit me up. Like, it is very much. Next up, timeline. We have the winter 2014 Sochi games in Russia. Big, big, big things. The set for this, incredible. I was really impressed by it. Lau, do you want to give us some background of historical stuff happening at this time?
00:52:51
Speaker
Sure. So we have ah Scotland approving same-sex marriage. on January that year and England and Wales did the same on March 2014.
00:53:02
Speaker
fourteen So great semester for sex marriage. Yeah. And then that's coming up. I know in 2015 when I mean, we'll get there, but like 2015 is when the US s does it as well. So we're yeah we're getting closer. I'm wondering if these countries doing it had any impact on the US, but that was pretty cool. Intro to this as one of our other framing devices that the show uses really incredibly is a fictional hockey podcast. Now, recently at this moment in time,
00:53:31
Speaker
me we had There is something that has been happening in the heated rivalry IRL world. um This is coming out on the 30th, if I understand math correctly, like this episode. And so as of this past week, the week of the 18th of January, 2026, there has been an empty netters scandal. And we will, we need to talk about this for a second.
00:53:55
Speaker
Yeah, we need definitely need to talk about it. i think like, like me as a person who like is never any man's like, like peace, like is always like constantly calling out men for like, shit that they do and everything like you know I fell into the hype of like men talking about the pot or about the show in a really good way like it just it felt nice but like I did at I remember at one point like I when I was doing this I was like yeah but these are like just like white guys talking about this show like it just like you know like we really shouldn't be like Let's take this like white man's, these cis white men experiences and like praise these cis white men for the work that they're doing because this is like literally, literally like the bare minimum is like them being like nice to gay people. Empty Daughters is actually a really big hockey podcast. I've listened to it before as just like a hockey fan. It is run by two I believe both of the Powers Brothers did hockey before and they were actually in the and NHL for what I'm From what I remember, at least I might be wrong about that, but they always have like hockey players on the show. They do stuff with pop culture. so yeah, so basically what happened was the Empty Netters were not the first people to talk about heated rivalry on like a hockey podcast. That was What Chaos? And I've watched What Chaos before as well. Those two hosts are very like,
00:55:37
Speaker
pro queer ho like they're very like queer allies like they have been to a bunch of different stuff um and in general like i i've watched empty nighters before but i've initially been like not so thrilled with how they talk about like women like it's just like some like it's like locker room talk you know like it's just like It makes you feel kind of icky when you listen to it. And so when Empty Matters started doing the heated rivalry, I was like, wow, this may be a way for them to like kind of redeem themselves. And so, yeah, I like listened to what they had to say and I thought it was great. But I think like.
00:56:17
Speaker
these text messages that have now come to light and the not apology apology video that came out yesterday i think it just shows that like this show is we should not be like listening to like straight white men's like ideas about this show like this show is made for queer people it's about queer people And the people that we need to center and the conversations about heated rivalry are queer people and not these straight white hockey bros. And I know that's going to be really hard for a lot of maybe straight women to accept because we all want men to do better. But I think like it's a necessity that we need to all start de-centering men in our lives and find other voices to uplift and you like
00:57:03
Speaker
talk about when we interact with media like this so those are my thoughts yeah well the whole thing with the scandal was that they were talking about heated rivalry they like like apparently loved heated rivalry and like raved about it on their podcast and were even talking to some of the people on the show or like the producers or something like that yeah they had robbie who plays kip and ksenia who plays svetlana on the show as a guest Yeah, and it was great and stuff. But then all of a sudden this week, it comes out that one of the hosts before watching Heated Rivalry was just talking all this trash about it and was saying like really homophobic stuff and was generally being really negative about Heated Rivalry. And so he was being really two faced and fake about all of this and apparently released some type of apology video. But again, exactly what Lauren's saying about it's great that men can talk about it, but it's
00:57:50
Speaker
likely going to fail and like we need to de-center men from these kinds of discussions and like yes hockey is like quote unquote like a men's sport like a men's world but also like this is a queer story and these cis het men are homophobic about it for sure for sure yeah i think you were you were pointing out the counter example that is what chaos and i think it it it says a lot when you like please cis het men listening to us if that is even a thing If you have always been an ally and you start talking about these shows and consuming these shows, that's fine by me because you have been there before. The thing about these guys at Empty Netters, as a lot of people have been pointing out, is how...
00:58:36
Speaker
they were, as Lauren was saying, utilizing all these like locker locker room talk before on their podcast. The vibe was off before and suddenly they're raving about the show when it becomes profitable. They were selling a lot of merch and that's when it becomes suspicious. Like when you capitalize on other people's stories, struggles, that's when I'm when i'm saying like, straight men,
00:59:03
Speaker
stay out of it. Like you shouldn't be the ones benefiting economically from these stories. And for me, for me, it has a lot to do with capitalism and consumption. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Everyone can consume the show. And if it, if it makes you you think stuff and if, it it It enlightens you and makes you grow as a person great. But who are you, really, to be deciding if it's worth the try and all that? Because a lot of the texts that were uncovered were Dan Powell's raving about... him like he He was like, we need other kind of shows being made. He was using a lot of vocabulary that reminds me of Republicans talking about queer issues. He was implying that this was just like a quota thing about gay stuff. And he was basically saying like, we have been waiting for a real hockey show for so long and they produce this. And that's the thing about heated rivalry is telling us this is also real hockey. There are stories that are not being like portrayed in media and there's a lot of silence stories. like
01:00:17
Speaker
There's a lot of things that are being invisible because of how the system works. That doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist and because this is your not your experience. And i'm i' ah this is also for queer people who are like, oh, but that's not how it works. That's not how men have sex. That's not how know my personal experience works. So I am upset that this is the story we're telling. We need to remember that queer people are not a monolith and ah hockey people are not a monolith.
01:00:48
Speaker
We are diverse and that's what we're celebrating every time we celebrate queerness is the diversity of it all. So if you don't feel represented, maybe it's because you're not the center of the universe, darling. Yeah. And and and of course it's it's it's cool to critique, for example, what we have been critiquing about the representation of Asian folks with Shane and all that. But sometimes a lot of people are like, no. I don't feel seen, this is not my experience. Well, maybe go watch something else because you are the default all the time. Like, for yes, for once you're not being represented. For once this is how we represent gay sex.
01:01:31
Speaker
And I don't know, you could go and there's a lot of shows that represent sex between gay men differently. And you can find like what do you want or maybe Make your own story where you represent... Because what we want is to show that even though we share... Maybe share identities or but or like...
01:01:52
Speaker
sexual orientations or identities in terms of gender we're not this like i don't necessarily love and exist in the same way as every other single pansexual person in the planet so that's yeah that's kind of it for me there's a lot of not Being aware of who you are in in life. Because you have been, so as you were saying, Lauren, you have been centered in this discussion so for so long that the moment that you are not the center of it, you feel displaced and you feel angry.
01:02:29
Speaker
That should be telling you something. Yeah. Yeah. So overall, what they what empty netters with that guy said was rooted in like bigotry and privilege and insulting a queer show before you've watched it and referring to the audience is like blue haired Twitter and saying it's pandering is homophobic, like just end of story. And this is I'm like, that's a tweet that I saw. that I'll put in our show notes from ChibiBinch at ChibiBinch. But that's exactly how I feel is like those comments was just like rooted in such hatefulness and then to go in and like then watch the show and decide you love it. Like there is something to be said about like changing your mind and all that, but it's still fake and it should have been addressed from the start to be like, oh, I didn't think it was great at first, but now I love it. Like there's there were so many other ways to go about it and for it to have to be uncovered in a scandalous way is like people had faith in that you know like people really wanted to hear their praise for it and so then to find out they're actually still hateful people oh no exactly like this is like the point of this novel like that these hockey bros are like a part of a system that promotes racism sexism homophobia all of these things and they like need to break free of that system because it's ruining their lives like and preventing them from having community with one another and everything and so like that is why things like this like are like very important to like the culture and important for this representation to happen for those kinds of things to be addressed in like in the daylights and to make
01:04:06
Speaker
like significant moves forward to get rid of them, you know, like get rid of racism, i get rid of sexism, et cetera. There was something else that I wanted to say. I think like just in general, like the language that the hosts used in both their apology video, but then even like calling Svetlana a puck slut,
01:04:23
Speaker
but like in the show and then being like no no no we mean that like your beloved Svetlana how dare you yeah like being like no no no we mean that like very like we mean that because we like love her like I don't like yes I call my friends sluts but like Like, it's a little bit different. Like, it's a little reclamation for me because I am a slut and my friends are sluts. It's very different when it comes from a man.
01:04:51
Speaker
Exactly. It's like when, like, I hate when men use the term bitch. Like, that is, like, number one. If I hear a man use the word bitch, I will never... ever like that man ever again. I don't want to hear it out of your fucking mouth. Even gay men, like I don't want to hear you say bitch at all. When like ah girls are king or like the they's and the thems and we're like bitch, bitch, like that's a little different. Like it has a very different connotation when it comes from a man. Yeah, I also think it was really interesting for this whole scandal to drop when we got- Unrivaled? In a week, we had just gotten the synopsis of Unrivaled, the trilogy of the Holonov books, like the the seventh book in the Game Changers series. Like, literally, the synopsis dropped in the release date and everything, and then like within a week, this Empty Netters scandal happened, and it's like, oh, this is exactly what she was talking about. I don't know if she predicted it or what, or this is just like-
01:05:42
Speaker
exactly what she's seeing in this whole system in the whole and NHL of like oh yeah this system is fuck and then example a you know yeah I actually it's funny it's funny because in my notes I was like we get a fictional hockey pod and I had to like do we think this could be the one from Unrivaled and then I had to go back after the scandal like also empty neuters it's that gif from Euphoria where she's like wait is this fucking play about us
01:06:13
Speaker
literally literally it's that i think one of the last things that i kind of want to say is this thread by kevin t norman it says i don't know about you but when i'm insecure or jealous i don't suddenly become homophobic and spew right-wing talking points and i think this like this is like it ties into like so many like conversations that i have with people about like if you're autistic it like doesn't you don't like it to be racist but yeah just because you're autistic. Like you can't just start saying like the N word and then be like, well, I'm autistic. I can say that. Or like, if you are, queer Like you shouldn't be misogynist. Like, hello, gay men. Like, and I'm sure we'll talk about that, especially when we talk about Hunter next week. Like, just because you have some like marginalized identity or you like maybe feel uncomfortable with something, it doesn't like excuse your behavior or your words or your, you know, like your things that you say. Yeah. Repeat after me.
01:07:15
Speaker
A diagnosis is an explanation, not a justification.
Sochi Olympics and socio-political challenges
01:07:20
Speaker
And same for emotion. You are, you you cannot control how you feel, but you are responsible about how you manage that. Yes. And exactly if you are someone who for example like me struggles with regulation sometimes you are responsible to notify people in advance you know and to have all your tools in place so it doesn't harm others like yeah sometimes you're gonna inadvertently harm people but the thing is how you are owning that how you're not weaponizing
01:07:55
Speaker
your diagnosis, your emotions to just say, oh, but I was mad. And it's okay to say stuff like this when I'm mad because I was mad. I wasn't serious. I was drunk. So I i became racist somehow. listen no and like and then to say that like that absolves you from like doing the work or like learning like the right way to talk about these things or having conversations about these things. Like, no, you still have to do the work. You still have to go out and learn and unlearn your behaviors and learn, unlearn your biases and make yourself better. Like, like they did a donation, I think, to, I don't even know what Empty Nutters did a donation to, but I think like,
01:08:43
Speaker
that is still not enough. You have to like show that you are like doing the work to unlearn like biases and things like that. And this is, I mean, this is something I talk about with my students all of the time. Like we all have preconceived biases in,
01:08:58
Speaker
everything. you know Sometimes our biases are there because they were developed as like coping mechanisms in order to keep ourselves safe. But we are you know like products of our environment. But the thing is with bias is that you are going to spend your entire life changing your ideas about the people around you. You should spend your entire time life learning and growing and like learning how to treat other people with Respect and like autonomy and everything. And so like, this is not a bad thing to say, hey, I had this bias in the past.
01:09:33
Speaker
It like really harmed a lot of people. Here's all the work that I've done to change as who who I am as a person in the future and what work I will continue to do. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that I think that's a really good segue into kind of talking about the Russian Olympics and the Olympics in Sochi, because I think there are a lot of like bias and stereotypes that are present in this scene that I know we all really want to break down. So we're talking about the Sochi Olympics.
01:10:03
Speaker
I do you guys remember the Sochi Olympics? Like, do you remember how it was covered? Because All I remember, all I really remember about the Sochi Olympics was that it was like in a beach town in Russia. Like we all expected Russia to be like cold and stuff. And they were like having such a hard problem, like keeping the snow cold enough on like the ski runs and like the ice cold enough because like it was too warm in Sochi, like it was like 50. And so they were having like all sorts of issues like with keeping it cold enough in order to do the Winter Olympics. That was like all I really remembered about Sochi. But I've always been a huge Olympics fan because of Sean White and snowboarding. But I mean, now this year, I'm really excited for the Olympics because the NHL is back in the Olympics. They weren't there for 22 2018. And so now you get to see like best on best hockey in both men and women's because the PWHL players are also going. And so, you know, it is going to be a really, really fun time to watch hockey this Winter Olympics.
01:11:10
Speaker
I think these were the Olympics yeah that radicalized me. Because these were the Olympics where you had a lot of queer people protesting and getting arrested because of what was happening in Russia with gay rights, as we have covered in our timelines. And I remember vowing not to go to Russia's territory yeah until this changed. It hasn't changed.
01:11:35
Speaker
I haven't gone. But that was the first time that I stopped viewing the Olympics as just this fun thing that I love to watch with my family. And it became like, it was the first like big sports event to disappoint me and to make me realize how this, um,
01:11:54
Speaker
organizations don't mind choosing host countries that commit crimes that are unspeakable, you know, like, and and and and we keep getting that and we know who the host for the Olympics is going to be next. So yeah, that was, that was little me just starting college because that was the that was the semester I started college.
01:12:17
Speaker
getting very angry and being disillusioned by the Olympic Committee all at once. ah So that's what I remember. I remember the pictures of young people protesting outside events, getting arrested, and it being so like weird with how things were going.
01:12:37
Speaker
in other yeah countries, you know, like we were getting all this progress in my country. It was like crazy. it was it It was really like getting on paper in the law, very progressive, even though people here can be very bigoted. So I was like, how is this happening at the same time? a country that has to like keep up an image e for the Olympics and is not even trying, you know, to hide their homophobia and the way ah the violence they use to to to treat these people that are by then i already considered part of my community because i was already figuring that out yeah for sure so that's how i remember them so i i have no idea i had no idea about the snow melting and amanda was three years old so amanda doesn't remember any other
01:13:33
Speaker
decision I was in middle school, was busy being on Tumblr figuring out what being asexual meant. Hell yeah. oh I was having a time, I was a kid. I i think I remember the the anti-sex beds, if that was at the same time, or maybe that was different Olympics. That's why I put it on the notes, like the anti-sex beds, because we get like this hint at they're not staying at a five-star hotel, you know? Like... The Olympic villages. No, which I think is so all funny. It can be an experience for from what we heard. Yeah, so Shane is like so worried about the black mold. Oh, of course he is. He's probably having so much like anxiety about getting... like They probably stayed in a Soviet b block. Oh my god.
01:14:25
Speaker
They probably like... Because it was in Sochi! In Russia! Yeah, it's just wild to think about.
Ilya's struggles in Russia
01:14:30
Speaker
Gen ignores a text from Yuna to text Ilya, and I thought that was really sweet. Oh, yes. He's so worried worried for Ilya. Because he lost the game at home. He hasn't even had the realization that comes a few minutes later about being gay at home. He's just overall so naive. Yeah, do we want to talk about that conversation? Because that scene... Before we get into that, I want to talk about, like, Russia losing the Olympics, because that's what we open on, is basically yeah these podcasters are all talking about how Russia's been, like, already... like kicked out of the tournament. And honestly, like Ilya probably wouldn't even stay after that because like the Olympic break is like the middle of the NHL season. Right. And so like, they want to go on a, like a little bit of a vacation and stuff. And so like most of the time your accommodations don't last once you've been kicked out of like the metal rounds or like even not even the metal rounds. So realistically, Ilya probably wouldn't have stayed as long as he did afterwards. Yeah. But we see him for obvious reasons so he can have conversations with Shane, which are so sad. but
01:15:38
Speaker
Let's talk about my two favorite gossip girls. Carter Vaughn and Scott. I love Vaughn so much. He's so funny. i love him. Also Scott's face during this whole thing. Yeah, about Vaughn. Funny anecdote. I was watching it this for the first time and we were chatting with Kaylee, the person who we credited for creating this whole heated rivalry, rave around...
01:16:01
Speaker
our friends and and i was like i've seen this guy who's this actor and kaylee was like girl i have no idea and i finally realized he is in my life with the wall with the walker boys but then kaylee sends me this tweet that says like every single series i'm watching every single romance i watch this year has this guy who is this guy Wait, I didn't know he's in my life with the Walker boys. Is he one of the Walker boys? No, he's one of the football players. He's the son of of the coach, of the football coach. And one of the brothers was quarterback until he injured himself. So this guy, the actor that plays Vaughn, plays the person that kind of replaces him, but is also his best friend. Yes, Colton Stewart.
01:16:55
Speaker
And he suddenly appeared in the RTVs, Dizzy. years. Once again. I know you. wait hold on i know you no and i mean vaughn is he's amazing in the books and i i love him in the show and he is the one that brings up this conversation of like hey guys uh it's really hard for gay athletes to be here right now and be out and like be visible in this space in a country that hates gay athletes And so I think this is like a really important moment because I think this is when Shane, like I'm sure Shane has heard about anti-gay laws in Russia. And I'm sure that he is aware of what is happening in Russia with its crackdown on like gay athletes. And he is aware that, you know, like how gay people are represented in Canada where they're able to get married and be visible. And so I think this is like the first time that he like actually realizes, like it actually clicks for him, that he's not safe in Russia. And then even to that extension, that Ilya is not safe in Russia. And so I think this is like we've been talking about how. every time Shane like brings up Russia, Ilya is kind of like, I don't really want to fucking talk about it. and I don't really want to talk about my family. And I think this like is the first time that Shane's like, oh shit. Like I've been bringing this up and like, this is not good for him. Like he can't be who he wants to. Like what we're doing is like actually a crime right now.
01:18:32
Speaker
And I think this puts like a lot of things into perspective. Yeah. When, when he says in the stairs, in that scene that Amanda loves so much, that we all love. But I always... Now, every time I see GIFs of that scene, I think of you, Amanda. Aww. Yeah. ah When he says, like, I guess we're not seeing each other in Russia, he's thinking about Olympic, like, endurance. And then he realized, like, oh, we're not seeing each other in Russia because it's fucking terrifying to do that. And Ilya could, like,
01:19:08
Speaker
it's It's more terrifying for someone who is a Russian citizen and has no other citizenship to ask for asylum. So you can see in in in hunter in in Hudson's acting, his face acting, you can see when he clicks, when he's like, oh, fuck.
01:19:28
Speaker
Now everything makes sense. Now I understand. And I think this also, like, There is, like at this time too, like a lot of like not so great like relationships between the United States and Russia. And so it's not even like... Because this is like... a lot of people call this like the second Cold War because it's 2012 to 2015. And so then it's also like oh, for help because...
01:19:55
Speaker
ilia can't even come to the united states for like help because Like they are so anti-Russia at this time too. And so it's like Ilya is really alone.
01:20:08
Speaker
Like, and I think this is like where Shane really realizes that for the first time. Yeah. On that topic, I think, I don't think anyone is listening to us in Russia or from Russia.
01:20:21
Speaker
I don't think we're that big yet, but in case someone is listening to us, just know that we're thinking of you. And we acknowledge how fucked up this is. Like, not being able to be who you are, to talk about who you are, because you're afraid of the consequences is so real.
01:20:44
Speaker
And even if that... And this applies for people outside of Russia as well. Just know that if you're experiencing this, with we're thinking of you. And we are sending you our strength and love.
01:20:59
Speaker
So then we're at the figure skating competition. And we see Ilya get a text from Alexei that says, dad is mad at you. um And he doesn't really respond, which also technology side note. I know I said it before, but it's still we're getting updates on the interface and like the tech itself. um And it's it's another step before. don Not in this episode, we'll get touchscreen, but where're the it's definitely getting a lot closer to it. Like the iPhones are definitely out.
01:21:23
Speaker
now um but we have shane approach him which i was wondering i was like shane is like he's sitting with vaughn and scott and i'm like why he like already looking at the rafters like he's just like looking up elsewhere not at the figure skater as he's finishing it's not like he just like suddenly looks up and sees ilia he's like scanning around looking for something i'm like don't know why he was doing that but he sees ilia anyway and goes to approach him and he's like, Ilya did not respond to Shane's text and Shane is like concerned because he's just like found out all this stuff about being queer in Russia and he's like, oh, like, are you okay? Like all this and Ilya has to be fine. Like he is so, he's not looking at Shane. He's looking ahead. He's so cold and hard and so, well, hard, but- Cold and hard. Is he a vampire?
01:22:10
Speaker
Your skin is cold as ice. this This is the skin of a killer, Bella. This is the skin of a killer, Bella. He's just Russian. This is the skin of a killer.
01:22:27
Speaker
So, anyway, it's so serious. Ilya is, like, such an asshole, not at all who we had seen before, where he's, like, trying to be friendly with him, like how he is in the States. He has to be fine because he cannot be emotional. He cannot...
01:22:41
Speaker
handle anything because he already on the side he's dealing with this loss he's dealing with the shit he's gonna get from his country and his family he's gonna deal with his personal and stuff with his family with both alexia and his dad has so much on his plate and now he has a situation ship in his home and he can't even do anything about it like that is he must to be like so torn up inside but he can't show any of that he can't even be seen with hollander because they're gonna if people see them together they're gonna be like why are they together that's so weird at this time We also get our boring count number two where he's like, I didn't answer your boring text. And he's just so sassy. And he's just putting up all of these walls between them. And just my my poor baby. He says, we are not anything. Like, no banter, no tenderness.
01:23:23
Speaker
It's just so harsh. There's a lot of yeah of jaw clenching. It's... the way they're placed in this sort of balcony is paralleling the the ending of episode one with the Vegas. Here's view, Hollander. Because they're also distant, but this time it won't get resolved with a kiss.
01:23:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's not possible. And I think there's a lot of people speculating and analyzing on... social media that uh ilia said boring texts as a way to signal like their common code like their banter ah while not saying anything because he doesn't know who's watching who's listening and yes yeah yeah that is quite a fair approach to that conversation.
Family pressures and support
01:24:12
Speaker
i know a lot of people hate Ilya for how he had acted here. I know it hurt Shane. like Shane is like, okay, fuck, blah, blah, blah.
01:24:22
Speaker
And um I don't think, like, we know because of the books that Ilya's internal monologue and feelings are like, I wish I could explain what is going on. But this is so dangerous that I'm just going to react With instinct. And I need to protect myself. And I need to protect you. And there will be time later to fix this when we're safe. And it sucks that people are put in that position. And it sucks that we're so afraid that we end up hurting the people around us. Because I know that hurt both of them so much. That interaction really broke both of them.
01:25:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, this scene is just so, like, all I keep thinking about is, I read this fic, like, a couple of weeks ago, probably at this point, um and it's about, like, Ilya and Shane, like, hooking up in the Olympic Village and, like, getting caught and Ilya having to, like, escape Russia. And, like,
01:25:24
Speaker
it Like that makes me think a lot about like the scene and how like little like Ilya could react to Shane because of his fear of like being caught being found out in some way shape or form. And so like I think there is a lot that is going on with Ilya and as we see kind of in the next scene especially where Ilya is you know meeting with a minister which is kind of just like a it seems like just like a foreign like or it seems like just like a Russian politician is what they what it looks like from I think it's Vatlana's father
01:25:59
Speaker
no Yes. So I think it's maybe like Svetlana's father got into politics after being a goalie in the United States and in the NHL. Like that would make sense, I think, in some way, shape or form. And it doesn't necessarily like mean like a head of government. It could just be like a person in like a specific area of government. But like before Ilya goes to meet the minister with his father, he is like,
01:26:25
Speaker
helping helping out his dad and his dad is like having memory issues like asks ilia if his mother like did the bow tie because she doesn't know how to do it right and then like forgets what who russia played against um and so like this also once again shows that like ilia is so complex and there are so many complex issues that are going on in his life he's not only a queer athlete in russia But he is also like struggling with this like family dynamic and like letting his father down in some way, shape, or form. And all of these other things that add so much context to that conversation that he's with Shane and those we're after. Yeah, and I think that's a ah great transition into this next section with his father and the gala. It's like his dad is just like laying it on him and just giving him absolute hell. And then it's such a quick flip into this like big memory oof. like It's so showing of...
01:27:18
Speaker
showing of Like, this is so confusing for Ilya because he's like, yeah, I'm so ashamed, like blah blah blah. And then all of a sudden his dad's like, oh, your mom, this and that. And it's like, hello? Like, what do you, what do you mean, mom? Like, she's been dead for over a decade at this point. it's so It's such a quick flip. And the piano music, as I was in my rewatch, I picked up on this. It's like low and dark and slightly ominous. It's a bit like...
01:27:41
Speaker
tumultuous I would say a little bit, just slightly, not not incredibly, but just a bit. And then it transitions, it like really bring in strings and then that's the transition into the gala. And Bro is dissociating as fuck, like almost like as much as he was at the draft yeah that n h drafts, NHL drafts. And again, he's with his dad. His dad's talking about something as he was, as a well, he mentions later something as, ah, just like when they were kids. And he's like, memory is great. And he's like, oh, there's no leadership. And just bragging on Ilya while he's standing right there. And I was like, oh,
01:28:09
Speaker
My poor baby. I love, again, this is paralleling the draft in the camera work as well. We're focus for're focusing on Ilia. The voices are not that clear and sharp. And suddenly as Vytlana arrives and you can see Ilia's shift immediately coming back to the present. She anchors him.
01:28:31
Speaker
You know, with nobody else can in this situation. Shane's presence is unsettling because it's dangerous, but Svetlana is Ilya's anchor and she's always going to be Ilya's anchor in Russia. And I appreciate that so much.
01:28:47
Speaker
not only because I love this queen, but also because we need to show, like I love when we get to see the friendships that keep queer people safe, you know, like, and how women have shown up for queer men so many times.
01:29:07
Speaker
Oh, so much, so much. The way that for me, Svetlana and the other women, and we're going to have an episode on this, eventually the women of this show, how they represent this presence of of of both straight and especially queer women in protecting queer men. Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, this like, I mean, yeah, we'll talk more about this. But it, I was just having this conversation with a colleague the other day. it just means like, we're talking about how this show for a lot of women feels safe, because there is like, no...
Role of women as allies
01:29:45
Speaker
like seen or anything where like the woman is seen as like a problem or she's like being forced to act emotionally for men or anything like that they are just there like the women in this show especially when we see things like elena in um episode three and hunter and then rose later on um like they are just safe spaces for the men and it called like it like draws me back to like how women were like caregivers, activists, leaders, and like the AIDS movements in like the 80s and 90s, how like they like had these conjoined efforts for equality between women's liberation the gray rights movements in the and 70s in America. And how women have been like safe spaces for gay men during like lavender marriages as well. yeah And it's just like, a lot of people are like, do you think like the women are being erased in this show because they are not the points of like contact and that that safety is erasing them? But I think it just centers like the emotional efforts that women do and like the effective care that they have. Or that they complete the effective labor that they complete. And it centers that in a different way. And I think that's something that's really important about the show. And I think that's ah a reason why a lot of women are drawn to the show as well. And so I think that is like Svetlana, like she's never shown in like a bad light. Like it is never her fault that something happens. And she is just there as like a piece of support for Ilya. And I think that's really important when we're talking about representation of women in shows like this. Yes. Yeah. They are supportive, but they receive acknowledgement for that.
01:31:32
Speaker
from the Yeah. Yeah, and even through the rest of the books as well, which in that episode about the women the series, I do want to cover, the i want to mention the ones in the books as well, because there are many others in the rest of the books that we haven't seen in the show yet. Fingers crossed we get more of them, but in we get like Maria, who is in Skip's book in Game Changer, but she comes up in other books as well. But reinforcing that these women are these support systems and like help guide these men in these tumultuous times, these emotional times, I think also partly because a lot of these women have been through similar situations of like just dealing with emotionally unavailable men or that sort of stuff. But I do think these are important like gender relationships and dynamics. um I think that the women being there for them is important. And I think it can help expand these men's ideas of emotional intelligence and bring them to new places in certain ways. So I don't want to say that these relationships are bad because women are doing all the work. I think they're good and important and also men need to do more.
Power dynamics with Sasha and Shane
01:32:31
Speaker
I think a lot of times.
01:32:33
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like, this is something we'll probably discuss when we talk about the Rose episode with Shane, when she's kind of just like in the, like in the restaurant and she's like talking to Shane and she's like, you know, does it feel different when you're with a man? It's not like she's like kind of, she's not like forcing Shane to be out. She's just like giving him the space yeah to like talk about and like emotionally react to things. And I think that's really important. And I think, you know, women are also drawn to the show because even though, yes, they are um a little emotionally stunted, it like, it shows that like men have like the ability to like, or men could be, you know, like more,
01:33:13
Speaker
ah open, more expecting or more accepting, more emotional, and that's one of the things that, like, drives women to the show. And I think, like, Ultimately, like it's a deeply happy story and there's a guarantee of the happily ever after. And like women are not guaranteed that most of the time, you know, like are happily ever afters. I say are as i as if I'm a woman, which I'm not. um Are happily ever afters are like intrinsically tied to like men and capital and everything. And like, I think more and more women are seeing past that. and developing kind of foundations for themselves to find happily ever afters in other spaces. And I think that's one of the things that he did rivalry really does well. Yeah. So that's a great transition into this next man that we meet is Sasha. He's flirty instantly. I think he's cocky and a little annoying.
01:34:03
Speaker
i don't know how much I want to talk about him, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everybody, I have like so many thoughts about Sasha um because i'm like, is Sasha a little toxic? Yes. Like, is there like Ilya and Sasha's relationship? Is that like more toxic than i think like that has one. I think it has a lot of power dynamics like that are interesting in it because Sasha is not a hockey player specifically. Like I, I feel like Shane and Ilya are on a much more like level playing field. Like they're both hockey players. They're both queer. Like, you know, like they're yeah more level with one another. Whereas like Sasha kind of has something a little bit over Ilya where it's like, Oh, I could tell my dad that you're gay. Like, I could, like, throw you under the bus. And, like, I think there is a lot in romance novels this idea of, like, the taboo-ness of, like, fucking your coach's son or daughter. And like the power dynamics that go into that as well. And so I think if there's any toxic relationships in Needed Rivalry, it's this one. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought up power dynamics because I, it's towards the end of the scene after Svetlana leaves, which I do want to talk about Svetlana. We'll go back to that in a second. But Sasha is so tall and opposing. Like when he walks over to Ilya and he's just like leaning over Ilya and trying to make a pass on him. But I think that Ilya holds the power. I think that like,
01:35:28
Speaker
I think he just like the way he says just like no doesn't talk to him doesn't engage. I think that Sasha wants Ilya to engage but the fact that Ilya doesn't i think gives him a bit more power and I it was yeah I don't know that was what I was getting like he I also think that related to the toxicness I think Ilya has shown because by now he I think he is ah aware or closer to aware of his feelings for Shane and I think that eliminates to him how he can can have a happy queer but or closer closer to a happy queer relationship that he couldn't get with Sasha who is who first of all is so forbidden it in so many ways but also I don't think Sasha is a good person and so I think he has realized that that he wants Shane he loves Shane and Sasha is just so irrelevant to him that he does not care about him at all and so like Sasha tries to bite his lip and he does not kiss back he's just like I'm just here right now you know
01:36:18
Speaker
I think that's a little manipulation on Sasha's side. Oh, for sure. Yeah, he's he's trying to get Ilya's desire to act instead of his reason and his actual desires, you know, like he's trying to provoke him physically. So he lets go and Ilya is not letting go.
01:36:39
Speaker
Like his whole body is like, which, like, I think we could go back to Svetlana because I have a question. is she setting them up? because she thinks this is gonna cheer Ilya, because it it did it did feel like that.
01:36:55
Speaker
And it shocks me because she is so clever and she reads every single situation so well that it confuses me. I don't know if she's necessarily setting them up. I think she's aware of the stuff that's happened between Ilya and Sasha. like I think she's 100% aware of that because that girl misses nothing. yeah um I think she is more trying to get Ilya out of a situation he doesn't want to be in and Sasha just happens to be there, i think is more of like how I read into that scene because I think they are all friends, right? yeah And so like, I think it's more of like, oh like here let's just all go hang out as friends and then kind of go from there because I think Sasha or I think Svetlana does like I don't remember what her reason is or why she leaves she has to go to bed so she can look perfect for tomorrow
01:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think, like, that maybe is a little bit of, like, she's, like, she reads Ilya really well, and she's, like, maybe this might help. um But I think Ilya is just so – don't even think it's, like – I think some of it, yes, is, like, I like Shane, and this is, like, something that I want to pursue. But I think so much of it is, like, I cannot physically do this right now. Like, I – I have too much going on that like I just cannot handle this. like and Real, real, real, babe. Real.
01:38:18
Speaker
I also wanted to to point out that the first time Shane and Ilya hook up, he talks about – Shane asked, has he done this before whatever, and Ilya is talking about how – yes, with like his coach's son, which is Sasha, but he also is saying how he likes – he's into like the danger aspect and he likes stuff like that makes him curious or like is a bit taboo, which is why he's also attracted to Shane is because he is his purported rival, which is what makes him interesting and and curious.
01:38:43
Speaker
um and So I think that's related, but I think he's just fully lost that with Sasha. like He's just not interested in the tabooness of Sasha now because I think he has something to lose now. I think he actually could very well lose like his hockey standing and therefore his freedom and therefore Shane if he were to... like but Even if it was like a random fling with Sasha, I think Ilya...
01:39:02
Speaker
would not want to risk it. Yeah, no, for sure. but I think you're totally right there. Yeah, and definitely I think his loss against Latvia is like the representation of all the possible losses that are on the table right now with his father, who he has this very complicated relationship with.
01:39:24
Speaker
But you can see his sadness at his father being ill and at him like losing that connection. So I... I think he is stressed as fuck.
01:39:36
Speaker
And um he is thinking about Shane, not only like, oh, I love Shane, but also I feel so bad for how I treated him. And I feel so bad for ignoring the text. Sasha leaves. Ilya takes his phone out again.
01:39:52
Speaker
and for a minute, you think he's going to answer. And then he's like, yeah nope. Okay. I mean, bro, if my situationship hit me up and was like, ah ah how are you doing after I lost in the Olympics?
Intensity of hockey playoffs
01:40:02
Speaker
I...
01:40:02
Speaker
like I would also not respond but um I think the Latvia part is important because like Latvia was a part of the USSR and so like to see your country lose to a country that you used to control i think has like I mean we were talking about this like um high context culture in our last episode and like the ideal of like preserving the face and I think like the fact that Latvia beats Russia is like, it's an insult to the face, you know? Like, it's an insult to, like, this power that Russia is or was, and it shows that, like, this is even... It even goes deeper than just, like, Russia losing. Yeah.
01:40:43
Speaker
Going back to Svetlana, I have a couple thoughts. i think she might be setting them up because she feels the tension, and we talked about that. i think I think she might be setting them but also, she is just so smart. I think I was saying it in our Heated Rivalry Discord server, like, kind of where we... we This whole... podcast started but I was saying she is so smart one of the smartest people in the show both emotionally and about hockey I think she understands how Ilya's father's opinion doesn't matter because he would be an asshole regardless because he's like she's trying to console him and be like don't even worry about him like he's even if you did
01:41:15
Speaker
great like great like he still would have found something to be a jerk about and so I think that was like really like emotionally intelligent of her because even if she isn't aware of the illness she still like knows him but also if she is aware of the illness she could be like just don't let it bother you kind of thing she does this incredible team math and the first time I watched it I was so astounded the way she just like connected all of these dots and did the math it's like that one gif of the like um like moving all of the i don't know if it's from like Marvel series or what but they're like moving all of the screens around and like all that she's doing that right now where she's saying all this like oh well the admirals won't make it past jersey and something something and then they won't get past montreal and you can take montreal this year and then in the west like something something san francisco and it's this whole incredible she plays it out so well and then she also says chicago aren't what they used to be lauren how did that make you feel that okay that made me so upset because chicago literally won the stanley cup in 2013 oh
01:42:09
Speaker
ah like she's like oh chicago isn't what it used to be and i was like bitch they won in 2013 like suck my dick it's so funny no i i clocked that and i was like i bet lauren's feeling attacked it was so funny i literally felt so attacked don't say anything about my keep my city's that name out of your fucking mouth shut the fuck up about chicago i was like i wonder if they wrote that like later on after the blackhawks had been like regularly bad but we get a timeline moment spring 2014 montreal at hayden's home while watching the finale of the cup dan and phil are still in the closet at this moment by the way one direction is about to go on their where are we tour the movie of pride is about to come out which if you haven't seen it you must it is a fantastic movie and low-key i think we should reference it later uh take me to church wait we need to stop and sing
01:43:00
Speaker
Every woman needs a lesbian, not heart. Yeah, yeah, I was literally thinking about that when we were talking about women supporting the AIDS crisis. I was like, oh my God, and pride with the people um like the coal miners supporting the gays.
01:43:14
Speaker
Take Me to Church by Hozier is at its peak with his video regarding Russia, which came out in 2013 and is the opening track of the album on so that came out in September of 2014. So there's some history for you.
01:43:25
Speaker
Oh, I love Hoser. so Hoser? That was when I like first started listening to him. it was Same. Somebody told me the other day, they were like, I didn't start listening to him because I thought he was just like ah another white man. And I was like, no, that's like the white man. Excuse me. Excuse you? Hello?
01:43:43
Speaker
That is the white man. Shut up. Hosea will never empty netters, you know? like So we're at Hayden's house. We get ginger ale, which of course, a staple, our regular. The wine, when he first walks in, is so funny me. It cracked me up so bad, where he's like, I brought wine. And Hayden, bless her, I forget her name. um She's like, what do what do I do with that? like they're just To me, it's just show that they are so young because they don't know what to do about wine. like To me, like it's when you're like a bit older, you like bring wine to like a dinner party, and it's just like a friendly thing. And he's like, i don't know, my mom told me to do it. I'm like, yeah, you know, would say that. But of course, they' they're they're like in their early to mid 20s. They're like, it's what do I do with a bottle of wine? LOL.
01:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, because this is 2014. So he's like, I mean, and is Canada at the drinking age 18? Yeah. So yes. Yeah. So he's been he I mean, but Shane doesn't drink. So like, exactly. That's like what my mom tells me that like, anytime you go to somebody's house for the first time, you have to bring a gift.
01:44:38
Speaker
I like this scene because you get about, you get like a little bit of like hockey superstition, which is the playoff beards. So it's like, it's not like, it's like an unspoken rule that you, you like grow a beard until you are kicked out of the playoffs. And it's always really funny to see like the little rookie babies try to grow playoff beards because they're really bad. um Very famously, Patrick Kane of the Chicago Blackhawks, can't grow a playoff beard but he grew a playoff mullet like he would grow his hair out for the playoffs because he couldn't grow a beard and you can like maintain the beard so it doesn't get like like scraggly or out of control but some people even say like maintaining it is a problem so yeah it's it's always a fun time to see them all look like as kip says you know like hot sexy lumberjacks yeah at the end of the season but some of them have horrible horrible beards um and should just grow their hair out yes this is referenced in a lot of the other books yeah this is also like It like shows you like how brutal the playoffs get. Like Hayden's got like a head injury because he's got like, you could tell he's got like black eyes or he's got the like one blood when you get a head of injury, it like rushes and it gives you raccoon eyes. JJ's got an arm in a cast. There's a guy in a wheelchair and they're like so beat up and nobody like talks about it at all. But the playoffs are brutal. Like, there i mean up to six weeks you could play like on the low end if you go all four rounds you would play 16 games because that's on the low end you need to get best of seven so you have to win four games at least but on the high end you could play like 30 additional like 28 additional games gross yeah and it's there it's like a brutal thing because you have to so travel between it um and so like
01:46:36
Speaker
What's been really bad is like the Florida Panthers and the Edmonton Oilers, they've been in the Stanley Clip finals both years and two years in a row. And the Florida Panthers have won twice, but there are no direct flights between Edmonton and Sunrise Florida. And so they have like brutal travel days that they have to like very quickly turn around and then play games. And like at this point in the season, everybody is like has lost like all of the weight that they've like gained over the entire season. So they're all like skinny as fuck. They can't keep their like calories like high enough for them to like gain muscle or anything. So they're skinny. They look like they're just like bedraggled. They all have like dark circles. They're stressed out. They've all got these hideous fucking beards. And then everybody is like injured, like very famously, Matthew Kachuk, who we hate the Kachuk brothers, but he like literally tore his adductor, like clean off the bone basically and paid through the Stanley cup finals. And like, was it was such a big injury that he just got back right now in the NHL when the season started back in October because his injury was so bad from the playoffs. Yeah.
01:47:43
Speaker
So, yeah, they are like barely pieced together. You always get like the news reports after the playoffs happen, how everybody's like, Yeah, like my arm was hanging out of its socket, like I played with a broken wrist, like all of this stuff, because they just want to win the Cups so bad. Yeah, I know this will be referenced later, where I think Ilya has like slightly bruised ribs or something and he's playing it specifically, but we'll bring that back up then. I also wanted to say that, but we get the the little little hints that both of them are captains now, which I don't know that we got earlier.
Roles as team captains
01:48:15
Speaker
They were captains of their, like, well, at least Ilya was captain at the Olympic Games. But, like, when Shane comes in the door at Hayden's place, they're like, cap, cap, cap. And it's all, and they're like, Hayden's wife is like, shh, like, I just put the kids down. um Both of them are captains. And then the announcers, as Ilya's playing, says that he's captain. So was I thought this was really, really sweet that They're both captains by now, just showing their growth.
01:48:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, they're probably, they're not the youngest captains ever. Like, some captains, like, Jonathan Taves of the United, or of the United States, of ah the Chicago Blackhawks became, he was, like, one of the youngest captains ever. I think he became captain at, like, 19. Yeah. um So, yeah, I mean, sometimes like you just have players that are really good and really good at motivating everyone else and they become captains really fast. um So, yeah, I mean, it's totally not uncommon, especially if it's like if it's somebody that they see as like a franchise player like the GMs do.
01:49:13
Speaker
they'll make that person captain quickly. Here's the thing is like on hockey teams, you usually have a captain and then two assistant captains. So your captain was a C and then you have two A's. And like right now on the Chicago Blackhawks, the captain is Nick Foligno. And then the A's are,
01:49:28
Speaker
Ryan Fee and Ryan Donato I think um but I could be wrong so usually A's are like your more veteran players especially if you have a really young captain I think um Marlo is an A oh that would make a lot of sense for the Boston team yeah he's an A Well, speaking of captains, we get the pep talk. And this is peak acting, especially when Ilya is like, I want to fuck San Francisco. And he like drags his thumb across his neck. It's hype as fuck. He's just telling them like, leave it all out there. Like, I don't care where we're playing, but these are our fans. We're going play for them. Like, it doesn't matter where ever we are, we're going to beat them and all of this. And it's just very funny because it's also like, I don't think it's in this episode I think it might be in the next one but where he's like oh you guys owe me money for winning or he's like I'll pay you something something about money and winning he's just yay boo boohoo and he's crying and it's a whole thing but I think he makes a great captain and he is just such a team but this is highlighting that where he his team just loves him so much and they're like list really listening to him intently and he's just hyping them up so much um and I think Connor's acting is fun which I I meant to say earlier, Connor's Russian is like phenomenal in that scene with Sasha and Svetlana, but Connor is just so great. in the fact that he's able to be this dramatic and loud and like yelling with the accent, I think was really cool because I think and sometimes when people who are using accents get emotional in certain ways or like or like a bit bigger with it, they can lose the accent. So I thought Connor was did a great job with this.
01:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, no. um Okay, I think Connor does a great job with this, but I hate this speech. Really? Like, i I'm just like, it's a mid as fuck. Like, I do not, it's like, um when he's like, leave it all out there and, like, that kind of stuff, I'm like, that is so corny. It's little basic. If you want to watch, like, a really great, like, sports hype-up speech, go watch the speech in Miracle um that is, like, for the USA hockey team during the Olympics when they're about to play against Russia. Like, go watch those speeches because those are, like, hype, hype speeches. I always like to also watch the, like, um the Independence Day speech. Those are hype speeches. But this, like, I was, like, the leave it all out there tonight. I was, like, what are you? Are you, like, a, okay, Hamilton. i was going to say, it's giving, like, theater production. It's giving, like, a theater. Like...
01:51:59
Speaker
i That's okay. But it gets the job done and they end up winning and we're back in Shane's shin's room with his team.
Complex emotions about Stanley Cup win
01:52:07
Speaker
And as as it's obvious who wins, the the rest of the metros all get up and are like, ah, well, it start to grow like whatever, all injured and stuff. But we zoom into Shane's face and there's nothing but Ilya and Shane in that moment. And oh, also and on the couch, they're like, well, Shane hates him the most. And I was like, right, right, right. Shane hates him the most.
01:52:28
Speaker
But he tears up and he's so proud of Ilya for winning. And I love him so bad. He goes, for you, mama. And it's ah so sweet. It's so good. It's so good. Which people keep misunderstanding what Ilya is saying. And it's like, he's very obviously saying for you, mama. Yeah. Which is so touching. Like, my little baby. He did it.
01:52:51
Speaker
He did it. Shane and like, Hudson's acting in this, like his little chin wobble. The face acting, he is amazing at that. Hudson Williams, face acting. just I'm gonna cry, thinking about it. I've been talking so much about face acting, because this week was the finale of Percy Jackson, and David Poole was like, giving it all with his single eye. Yeah. Yeah.
01:53:17
Speaker
yeah so yes Okay, so summer 2014, we're back in Vegas, and some highlights of this time our history, Luxembourg and Croatia get laws in favor of same-sex partnership, and Obama signs an executive order banning sex and gender discrimination for companies receiving federal funding. Hell yeah, hell yeah. What were you doing in summer of 2014? It was my first, like, I just finished my first semester of college.
01:53:52
Speaker
Yeah, same. Yeah, it was it was a great time. I was thriving. i had my future, like like, ahead of me, you know? yeah No, exactly. Exactly. No, i it was also my first summer after college. I had just finished my first semester.
01:54:08
Speaker
I think I spent like way too much goddamn time working as a server that's a bartender. What a, what a great, what a time to be alive. And that was also like, that was also like the height of me starting to like figure out like things about, so I was taking like all these educational like pedagogy classes and like psychology classes. And so I was learning about like,
01:54:30
Speaker
anti-blackness and racism and like in like ways that I still contextualize now as like a professor and so that was like I think really formative time for me I mean it was also like a little bit after Gamergate so like This was, you know, like feminism was launching itself into my life, like at full speed. So it was a really, it was a time to be alive for sure. so i love this scene of the um the MLH awards.
Hollywood's perception of sports romance
01:55:01
Speaker
I love the parallels that we've just recently gotten with the Golden Globes and them presenting. yeah I think both in the MLH awards and at the Golden Globes, we get this like,
01:55:13
Speaker
they did the best with what they could to like with what they were given like and much i watch it you didn't watch the golden globe one no i just didn't it just i didn't it wasn't a thing yeah yeah um so i mean i've been talking about this a lot on social media especially on threads but like hollywood doesn't know what to do with yeah them like it doesn't know what to do with heated rivalry like and this is i mean this plays into like conversations about like art and aesthetics um and like what is valuable as art to the masses and who dictates what is valuable as art like
01:55:53
Speaker
This goes back to like conversations of like Marxism and like Marxist like theorizations of who like tells us what art is valuable and stuff. And of course, Hollywood and an institution like the Golden Globes do not think that heated rivalry is like high art. They don't think that like romance novels are high art. They view this as kind of like very low, like acceptable for the masses. And so like when they were on the carpet and Gail King was like talking to Hudson, it was like, Everybody last night was like, they're coming, they're coming, they're coming. Like, they're not talking about the the people that were attending the Golden Globes. They're talking about like the, you know, like other influencers that were at those parties, the like ah the like hair and makeup artists, and all of like entourages that went with celebrities to those parties. they're not talking about like Steven Spielberg watching heated rivalry or like any of like high, high artists that we view as like people who deserve to get Oscars and Emmys and golden globes. And so Hollywood didn't know what to do with them. They were probably the person who was probably writing. This was very on a time crunch writing this golden globe skit for them. And so they tried to make it funny, but they didn't, they probably haven't seen it because they've worked on the golden globes for this long. Like, So Connor and Hudson did the best with what they had and like like what they were given and what they were told to say, it like, falls into like a lot of conversations about like what is art and what are aesthetics of art that i think are important to analyze yeah i also think they hudcon or like anything from heated rivalry i don't know if everyone knows this but they weren't eligible for a lot of awards because it's produced in canada and a lot of hollywood stuff is american and so it's that was just like really sad but i'm i'm glad they can be included where where they are which also shout out don't think we've mentioned yet there it was just announced like the other day that they're gonna be the torchbearers the actual olympics and that's gonna be really cool we're gonna have to talk about that that's so cute yeah but also the selfie bit during in this episode it fries me so bad they are hockey players they are not for the stage this is it also they're like acting on acting if that makes sense yes like And it just, the Inception, it just killed me so bad because i was like,
Emotional bathroom scene
01:58:12
Speaker
they're so funny. And they're like little like stilted, obviously eating from a teleprompter, like whole thing. But they're just so like exactly what Lauren, I think was saying in another episode of like hockey players hate talking to the media. They don't, they're not for like cameras and stuff. It's, they kill me. They did such a, such a great job at bad acting. I loved it. The hand going down the back is criminal. Criminal.
01:58:36
Speaker
Criminal. criminal Then we go to the bathroom, right? And Danny Mota, who is a YouTuber who reacts to stuff. I love his reactions of Epic, the musical. And he started reacting to Hit That Rivalry recently. And he pointed out the amount of mirrors that we get. And again, we have mirrors here. First of all, and I want to echo this from the Puck crew. How do they...
01:59:04
Speaker
film scenes with mirrors. I was also wondering this. I need to know because there there's a lot of mirrors. Like we have the mirror at the gym. The first time they go to the gym at the hotel. We have mirrors during this very, ah like Sasha, Svetlana and Ilya's conversation. We have the mirror now in this filthy bathroom. So first of all, I need to know.
01:59:32
Speaker
So please, if anyone knows, we need this explanation. Both us and the pod crew need to know. But also, what is it about? what What is the cinematography telling us with all these reflections of mirrors? i Every time I see mirrors, I think of Mulan, of course, and I start singing, when will my me Yeah, exactly. Seriously, I want to know, like, how do you guys read that?
01:59:59
Speaker
No, I mean, i always think about it. I mean, like, when we think about mirrors in literature, they are, like, not only do they reflect back your image at you, but they reflect, like, the things you don't want to see back at you. Like, they are the way to, like, point out your flaws. And, like, if i think about how we all use mirrors, you know, like, we look at ourselves, but then you will see, eventually, something that you don't want to see in a mirror. And so I think that them filming in front of all of these mirrors, not only is, I think it's another way to like showcase a look into their lives, but I think it's also a way to like showcase like the things that they maybe don't want to see because like mirrors do not lie.
02:00:39
Speaker
Like, you can lie to yourself, but a mirror is always going to show what's actually there. I was just going to say that you can't hide from a mirror, which is ironic considering we're hiding the camera from the mirror. But um you can't really hide from a mirror, and they...
02:00:54
Speaker
I was also thinking about this analysis in terms of Percy Jackson's Sea of Monsters with like Circe's Island and also Polyphemus Cave of like what mirrors as like a distraction or as like a manipulation tool um and and a lot of different ways of showing like wanting their character to look at themselves instead of looking at what's around them or looking at their surroundings.
02:01:15
Speaker
So I'm curious about the implications of that of that here. And it's like, therere they don't really look in the mirror a lot. and so I mean, Sasha in that scene looks at the reflection of the mirror to look at the door. but Shane briefly looks in the mirror when he's in the bathroom after this after being on stage. But they're they're looking at each other. They're not looking in the mirror. I think it it could have been interesting if they had both been standing at the sinks and then looking at each other through the mirror,
Maintaining control and vulnerability
02:01:40
Speaker
but they're not. They're looking at each other directly. so I'm struggling to do more analysis than that.
02:01:45
Speaker
But that's what I think. Yeah, I agree. i We could track this because I don't remember if we keep getting this amount of mirrors in the next episodes.
02:01:57
Speaker
But i know that was something I hadn't noticed until I saw Danny Mota's reaction to the first and second episode and he was like going on about like a huge analysis and i was like maybe this is like english teacher blue curtains sketchy in the right meme oh my god the green light and Yeah, I love Danny Mota. I'm not making fun of him, but that's the vibe it was giving. So I really wanted us to to try and figure it out as well.
02:02:32
Speaker
I don't get this scene. like i was Really? I autistic? i'm like i'm like am i autistic um Yes. um For me, it's taken if you watch this to understand.
02:02:44
Speaker
Like, love it immediately. I've watched it, like, ten times at this point, and I still don't fucking get it. Like, I'm like, why is the, like, why is he, like, he, like, comes in, and I get, I guess I get because, like, Ilya only knows how to interact with Shane. Like, okay, because I feel like this scene is, like, a flip of the Vegas scene, maybe at the end of the first episode, where...
02:03:06
Speaker
Ilya's like, here's my emotions. Shane's like, I don't know what to do with those. And then Ilya's like, okay, well, I'll take them back. And then I'm going to switch this into sex. And I feel like then this scene is like the opposite of it where Shane's like, here's my emotions. And Ilya's like, well, I don't want those because you don't want my emotions. So I'm going to turn this into sex. And then Shane's like, okay, then I'm also going to go about sex. But Shane does want his emotions. Yeah.
02:03:29
Speaker
Yeah, but Ilya doesn't know that. So I do get it. I do get it. I think the book helps because we get Ilya's inner monologue and we know that Ilya was quote unquote late.
02:03:41
Speaker
You know, Shane is like, where were you before they go out and present the award? Because he saw Shane and freaked out and went to the bathroom to have a full like gay crisis, you know? And then he's trying to play cool because he has been ghosting Shane for months. But he is super not cool about this whole interaction. He is so into Shane that it's tilting his whole world and he's trying to regain control.
02:04:14
Speaker
The only way he knows how to regain control is through sex. And also he wants things to be okay again. He wants to forget what happened in Russia. He wants just to go back to business as usual. show And we're gonna see Ilya, the rest of this episode, perform.
02:04:30
Speaker
He is performing. He is not being vulnerable, he is not being transparent. He is performing to get them back on track. And Shane is being vulnerable. Ilya wants to take that pain away from him because we see the tenderness, even if he is like playing with him.
02:04:49
Speaker
when when when he When he tells him like at first he's like taking his distance against the wall and he's like, are you going to suck my dick? And Shane just explodes. And that's where Ilia approaches. And he caresses his face. He gets Shane to look at him.
02:05:09
Speaker
And the thing is that inside, Ilia is struggling with wanting to just melt. Because this man is gorgeous and he loves him so much.
02:05:20
Speaker
But he he knows that's not possible, so... But he knows that now that they are in the US, sex is back on the table. He wants to forget everything that happened. So he takes Shane's face, and once Shane falls...
02:05:35
Speaker
again into the game and he's like please suck my dick because he just wants like i think i think it's not the possibility to have sex again what gets shane is not like lost is the tenderness which that that ilia's transmitting through gestures and the hand caress in his face and he's like yes i also want to go back to how things were I also want to forget that we had this interaction that was so hurtful and I don't want to be in pain anymore.
02:06:10
Speaker
And so Ilya then does the Alex from Red, White and Royal Blue thing of, no, you're going to wait and then we're going have fun, blah, blah, blah. And this is as much as they can give each other at this point. But you do see you do see how they're both doing their best to get back to the dynamic that they had before Russia.
02:06:35
Speaker
To that stare, to that stare, well, kiss to the banter. Shane is crying because he, like me, cries when he's angry.
02:06:46
Speaker
But he he's also like, I want to shake this and I just want to have a good night with this man. You know, I want to... Reconnect in the way that we know how.
02:06:58
Speaker
um So for me, it was very clear that Ilya was performing at the beginning of the scene. He almost gives and melts, but he decides to keep his mask on because he has seen danger and he's not feeling safe still to express emotions. That's not for him. That is not available.
02:07:21
Speaker
so So I think what what is confusing about the scene is the words coming out of people's
Vegas scene and power dynamics
02:07:29
Speaker
mouth. Yes, that's what I'm confused about. But what is grounding for me and and and very clear.
02:07:35
Speaker
Please let's celebrate that. I'm about to say that what is clear for me is nonverbal language. This is huge. um For me, it's the hand gestures and the eyes and the body language that is actually telling us what's up. And I i understood it thanks to the book. i I'm going to be honest.
02:07:58
Speaker
But that's the intimacy. and And we have talked about how this series uses intimacy to tell a story. And here we get it. Humans lie.
02:08:09
Speaker
But there's There can always be like small things that you can cut and translate into what is really happening and what they're really feeling. That doesn't mean that Ilia is going to stop performing and we're going to see that at the penthouse scene.
02:08:24
Speaker
It's like full performance. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I do want to say that they Shane does address the ghosting and like calls him out, which, you know, I go back and forth on because they did have earlier on in their time knowing each other, they did have lots of stretches of where they wouldn't communicate at all, even though they had each other's numbers. But we've I've seen the summer montage where they're texting each other all the time with all the parallels and everything then back and forth. So Shane multiple times had tried to reach out to him and Ilya just blows him off. And so that's what Shane is so angry about. He's angry that Ilya was late. He's angry because he yeah he goes at him. But then now all of a sudden like ilia wants to be back to the normal routine. And so I think Shane has some some conflicting feelings about that. and
02:09:05
Speaker
i I do, part of me does think that he is trying to use part of his body to reach him because he doesn't always, I think he's still learning how to do that otherwise. Like he's, they're both learning how to be more like meet each other because now, right now what you're saying is they're staggered of the like, here's my emotions and then the other one doesn't want them. I think they're learning how to fit like puzzle pieces and try to give each other their emotions. They're in that process of learning about it. But Shane immediately caves and forgives him. Like Ilya loves playing games with him, We also get our third account of boring where he's like, oh, like, no, like you're you're boring, just like your dad or whatever about the New Yorker, which I thought that was it was funny. But that's our third boring account. And Shane's tears. I agree with you, Lau, of the like his tears afterwards where he's like, fuck, like he's just like there was a whirlwind and a roller coaster of of a conversation. And now they're back in the routine of texting each other their room numbers to go fuck. Does that make more sense, Lauren? Yes, thank you for educating me because I i was confused. I think also like to add to this conversation is I like I think autism like Shane's autism or like his him being on the spectrum like plays a lot into both this scene and the next scene where Shane I believe is like very very comfortable in like the submissive role in when he when he has sex with Ilya because it is like very explicit like if we think about BDSM and Ilya fulfilling more of like a dominant role he's like explicitly so telling Shane what to do and Shane who has trouble communicating with people as we've kind of seen and has trouble communicating with Ilya maybe is like very comfortable in that role because he's getting that explicit communication and we see this with like a lot of like people who maybe are on i don't know if i want to say like on the spectrum but like who are autistic or who are nor neurodiverse and like how many of them are involved in like bdsm communities because it has that very like well structured defined rules of like this is what a dominant does and this is what it submits it does And so I think this also is like a conversation about Shane's like neurodiversity that kind of plays into this scene and, know,
02:11:24
Speaker
Everyone's favorite scene, the Vegas scene. I know my mother has watched. She says she will put on the show just to watch Ilia drag the chair across the room. So um yeah what a great segue. Shout out to Lauren's mom. Shout out to my mom. Love Maybe. Shout out mothers. Like my mom. Shout out mothers. I showed my mom Ilia's butt on the shower scene. And she very tenderly touched my screen and was like, oh After being shocked, like, she asked me if it was fake. Like, if if if if the actor had had some, like, plastic surgery. Implants. And I was like, it's real.
02:12:05
Speaker
She was like, oh oh And then she was like, who else reacts to... Anyway. Anyways. Okay. Let's talk about the Vegas scene. Vegas. Vegas. Vegas. Yeah. right The outfits are telling us a lot again. Ilya is... that in this case they're not telling us as much as about how they're feeling and who they are but about who they want to portray to be especially ilia like shane arrives like with the with his tuxedo like less arranged but still dressed and ilia has his open shirt glass in hand open right daddy daddy yeah daddy is full and i feel daddy you won i he won
02:12:53
Speaker
the MVP award. So they have been playing with this, if I lose, if you lose, if I win, if you win. So we have the winner loser dynamic back.
02:13:04
Speaker
So Ilya is the winner tonight and he requests for Shane to strip. We get the folding of the clothes again. and then the very worried look at the window.
02:13:18
Speaker
So Ilya then does what Lauren's mother is obsessed about and drags the chair to the bedroom. Also to clarify, she's not the only one obsessed with that. I am also obsessed with that. That is so like, I don't care if anyone hears what I am doing right now. Like I am going to fuck this man through the mattress, through the floor. I don't care who knows. Like it is like, it is so like, daddy dom it's it's like the hottest thing i've ever seen like that alone the chair drag yeah amazing what was in the water that day of filming okay i'm so glad you brought up filming because i wanted to say this is one of the first scenes that they filmed if not the first is the first intimacy scene okay right right yeah um
02:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, I forgot about
Post-Vegas relationship reflection
02:14:07
Speaker
that. i wasn't I wasn't totally confident. But I feel like i either read or heard in an interview, Hudson said he wasn't as built out yet as he later became. And he was like a little bit like upset because this is where his body is most shown or something that. Or you can see his but i don't know. There was something about his body. He was like, we didn't film as much of my body like later on. where Even though I was like, i think it's about the ass comment where they're saying Connor has such a great ass. But Hudson's like, no, I have a similar ass. But my ass isn't shown much beyond.
02:14:36
Speaker
this scene, which is they filmed early on, so he wasn't as built out yet. Yeah, he didn't have that those nine pounds of clappable material yet. He didn't have the whole bakery built yet. Not yet.
02:14:47
Speaker
yeah what like okay there's so much that i love in this scene um the like ilia putting on a show like doing the dragging of the chair like even though he wants shane to put on a show he is also very much like yes acting and performing um i love when shane's like well like give me some of the vodka and ilia's like no that's your reward for after like that to me is like no, no, no, I want you sober for this. Like, I want you, yeah like, in this, like, so much. Also, Shane has no socks in this. Yeah, exactly.
02:15:21
Speaker
Because passing past, past, like, scenes, socks, oh, all the time. This time, no socks. And he was stealing his boxer briefs until Ilia rage baits him with the Stanley Cup. And then he... we get the asshole comment, so for your count, Amanda. and Ilya receives Shane's boxers like in the face.
02:15:48
Speaker
um So we are also having this kind of like who wins the I don't give a fuck game. yeah And they're both competing against each other see who caves- Who gets lots of a fuck. ah huh And I love it because it's so sexy. It's like amazing foreplay.
02:16:09
Speaker
yeah yeah oh my god but then as soon as shane throws the underwear ilia the switch up his notes because he's like laughing about the cup he's teasing him and then he gets hit with the underwear to his chest and he's like you can see the change where he like switches into he's like oh no i'm gonna fuck you now like he's it's nuts and also music intensifies we get the infamous arch the arch my beloved oh yeah the arch of the the is it peter peter or peter squared i don't know The artist for this scene, um this song is actually called Inferno on the album. And then when Shane escapes, it's called Fire Escape, which I think is perfect, like, like storytelling with this music.
02:16:49
Speaker
So yeah, this scene is, it's like literally like ingrained in my memory. Like it's my Roman Empire. Yes. When he stands up and he shrugs out of the shirt with like one arm. Yeah.
02:17:04
Speaker
Did you also thought that he was gonna smell Shane's underwear? Yeah! Yes, no, I absolutely- If this was like day two or three and they had done a different intimate scene first, he would have smelled the underwear. Yeah, Connor would have ad-libbed that, yeah. 100%. Yeah, yeah.
02:17:21
Speaker
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one. We have all these, like, we have the I need Say It, I need you, and then the infamous art. Oh, that one got me. Yeah. The I need you, that part got me. got me. While fingering himself, the he's open, he's... He's like- He's literally open. Yeah.
02:17:44
Speaker
His boy who in every single former scene has been like tense, you know? And suddenly he's like spreading those legs and those cheeks, opening himself up and saying out loud, I need you.
02:17:59
Speaker
And then crawling, begging. Crawling the nuzzle. Oh my god, yeah I can't. I can't. Like, oh, girl, I've done it. I've done it. It's so it's like, because I think of this as like one of their least intimate sex scenes. a Like, agree I feel like there is a lot of distance, like physically, emotionally in this, but like that moment, like Shane still trying to make that connection, like be that intimate. I was like, I love you.
02:18:32
Speaker
Everything about you is wonderful. Yeah, and we cut that intimacy out with the fade to black, the no sound, no music. We don't get the moans that we usually get. We don't get music. yeah We just get movement, very aggressive movement, very distant. Like, Ilya tends to put his hand on Shane's face to like, crush him on the bed. But this time it does feel like he's pushing him away.
02:18:58
Speaker
yeah fucking but like they're positioning yeah absolutely they're like not basing each other like they're so distant in this moment like even though he's inside of him they're distant yeah and then we have the awkward bird smoking and drinking in bed Yeah, Shane gets his promised vodka, but no shower it means they have to talk. I was remembering our episode before of like, oh, why does Ilya always shower whatever? And he doesn't shower this time, so they have to talk. And no banter, no connecting. Shane wants a do-over from the Las Vegas convo regarding Russia because at this point he's a little less naive. he's still he like He knows a bit of what Ilya is facing. and
02:19:38
Speaker
At this point, it's not a question for Ilya to go back or not. And this was an interesting parallel to the Olympics where Ilya is like so he's so wrapped up in it all. And he's like, Shane asks if he's going back. He's like, of course I'm going back. But even though we just saw Ilya go through all of this these hardships, but if that's his home. That's his family, whether he likes it or not. And so it's not even a question. um and He doesn't open up to Shane, even though he doesn't like it's so even though they're safe and in the US and everything.
02:20:07
Speaker
Ilya still does not open up and it's a very different post fuck vibe compared to their last time. The music's more apprehensive. Like last time they fucked, they got the passionate kiss versus no kiss. And in our previous sex discussions, we've talked about who's naked and who isn't. And Ilya is left need this time. Yeah. And I think Ilya comes out of this scene. Like, I think.
02:20:27
Speaker
like, a little more vulnerable. Yeah. Because, like, something I'm always looking at with Ilya is, like, how does he, like,
Cultural guilt and family dynamics
02:20:34
Speaker
how does he, like, move his body in relation to, like, traumatic, like, discussing traumatic things? Like, this boy means somatic therapy so bad because, he like, yeah the body is, like, keeping the score of the trauma. So, like, the way that he, like, is crying, like, after they have sex because he, like, rubs his eye in, like, a very specific way. And, like, he is, like,
02:20:55
Speaker
like you just like watch how he like is reacting to these kinds of questions that Shane has and how his body reacts to this and so like this is this is something that is so like it's something that I always think about when I watch like Connor's story and when I watch Ilya and responding to things it's like how does he respond with his body and how is his body like keeping that trauma and I think like I think him returning to Russia is not even like at this point like because we've learned so much about like him and his culture in this episode I think it's not even so much of like oh I have to go back to ru like Russia's my home but it's like it's, I have to go back because I cannot trust my brother to care for my father. and like, I need to go make sure that he gets the care that he needs. yeah Um, and so, I mean, this is kind of something that I was talking about in therapy this week with my therapist about like Catholic guilt and how, um, I know Lau is laughing at me right now, but like, I'm laughing at both of us. Don't worry.
02:22:02
Speaker
At both of us. Like how Catholics like put ourselves through like really traumatic things, even if it doesn't like, even if it is beyond our boundaries, it is like something that we don't want to like go through something that we like need to get rid of because we like feel that we have to be like martyred for our sins that we have to like atone for our sins.
02:22:24
Speaker
And I feel very much that this is what like Ilya is going through in this moment. Like, I face it with like thinking about like political stuff and et etc. Like thinking about my like atoning for sins via like sacrificing myself for the cause, which is crazy. um But like Ilya is like thinking about it in like, almost like I have to like sacrifice my like want and my desire to be with this man because I have to atone for the sins of like leaving my parents behind or leaving my father behind or whatever. Yeah. And ah yeah as, as a person from Latin America, I've seen so many memes and tweets and stuff from, from kids of immigrants in the U S saying like, my therapist just told me to go no contact with my family.
02:23:13
Speaker
And this is how I noticed that I need to find an immigrant therapist. I'm like, it's not that the therapist is wrong, right? But you need a certain amount of cultural understanding of someone's culture before you tell them how to react to their family's abuse. Uh-huh.
02:23:35
Speaker
Exactly. There's a lot of guilt and responsibility in a lot of cultures that are so family centered. I'm talking about like right now, but but I've seen this meme with Indian people as well. Like, yes, you don't just go no contact with family.
02:23:51
Speaker
That takes ages because you then have like aunts. uncles, grandmas calling you, trying to convince you to go back to the abusive family member. You get your own guilt because you were brought up in a place that focused on community and you never break that.
02:24:13
Speaker
That is not okay. Abuse is okay. Breaking the family is not. And I'm not saying that's good I'm just saying that is how culturally we end up sometimes trapped in family situations, because breaking out of them is not as easy as for other people that have grown up in cultures where the individual is so important, you know.
02:24:40
Speaker
when you protect yourself before protecting others and uh both have their issues right right for sure but yeah the catholic guilt the never never being able to feel okay when putting yourself first because that's not how you were raised so i i do see here ilia has received the message constantly has received the message that he his feelings are not important, his needs are not important, that he has a responsibility towards his family because they put up with him, you know, because they still like talk to him. That's that's what I get from Alexei's words sometimes like we still like I could be worse. So you should be grateful that I'm not worse. Yeah. And there is also the trauma of having lost his mother, who was apparently the only person who saw him as something valuable, you know, as someone who was worth of love and attention and then being like, OK, but the only way to
02:25:50
Speaker
stay connected to my mom is to stay in Russia and stay with my family. So there's a lot of there. And but I love how maybe Shane doesn't understand that, but he's trying.
Shane's internal struggle
02:26:03
Speaker
And I think it's the first time someone tells Ilya, what if you don't go back? yeah it probably hadn't crossed his mind before it it was not a possible like do you guys remember the first time that queerness was presented to you like the brain fuck of like what it does to your brain to suddenly consider something that had never even crossed your mind but it's exactly what you need to understand life i think that's that's what ilia is going through it's like
02:26:35
Speaker
I could not... There's another one. Yeah, there's... What? never Never in my life have I heard that that was an option. Our last little section here we get as Shane leaves. He doesn't kiss goodbye. Ilya stays in the bed smoking, just kind of thinking in his thoughts as Shane gets dressed in the other room where he left his folded clothes. And he is just kind of like, all right, like I'm leaving. And Ilya is like, bye, Hollander.
02:27:00
Speaker
like Yeah, Shane is just like, so awkward. He's so cute. And... He leaves and we see him in the elevator. he types, he brings out his phone, types out, see you next season, as if wanting to go back to their usual or like their whole like, see you next time. was we he didn't He didn't do that this time. We didn't even do it last time in Sochi. But he tries to go to their see you next time. And so he says, see you next season. He deletes it. And he types out, we didn't even kiss. Ah! And then he, he deleted the slow delete with the soft fuck. He goes, fuck, like, I'm crying so much. He starts to be like, why, why do I have feelings about that? Why am I emotional about that? Why would I, why am I upset? I think he's like having this, like, trying to pick that apart, his feelings a little bit in the elevator. And that's what the soft fuck is. is He's like, why do I care about that? And I also, I want to throw out there so many times I've been emotional and typed out a message to someone only to
Media literacy in fandom
02:27:50
Speaker
delete it. Oh, Shane, I feel like it's so hard here. yes I feel you so bad it's I cry i I've never related to something like i relate to a lot in the show but that part of the like fuck I just I feel that it's so relatable I want to cite our fellows from the pod crew specifically Camille because I was listening to their episode on this episode and they were Camille was saying like this is a great way for us to get the inner monologues that we get in on in the book Like this typing, erasing, typing, erasing is giving us a lot of information about feelings.
02:28:31
Speaker
Because we we just see Shane being awkward, but we don't see, like if we don't have the text, we don't see see Shane first trying to go back, go back as a business as usual. And second, trying to be vulnerable.
02:28:44
Speaker
It's just, if we only had the, I'm leaving goodbye, goodnight, hold on off. Hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on. hal good night hot guy um If we didn't have the the texts, we wouldn't see how Shane has suddenly realized that there's something more than just sex here.
02:29:07
Speaker
And the texts are like, if we just get him in the elevator saying fuck, it's not the same. We're not getting the same message. And also we know that a lot of people are not paying and attention because we see you on threads, we see you on Twitter.
02:29:22
Speaker
You're missing a lot of points. So stop scrolling while you watch. Watch, then scroll. Do one thing. Multitasking is a great tool, but it's not necessarily for every single activity that you do every day.
02:29:39
Speaker
Also, I'm not even sure if it's like so much of like, i I mean, I'm sure a lot of the like, I don't understand this like type thing is like because you're scrolling and watching the television. But I just think there is like,
02:29:52
Speaker
a need for media literacy and a need for critical thinking that a lot of the fandom is showcasing that they don't have. i don't yeah And so, yeah, I mean, I think there is, I think there's a lot of conversations about different things, about how some of the fandom is reacting to things. And yeah, I mean, that's definitely something we can talk about in in a different episode, but I think it is, it's not so much just, oh, I'm not paying attention, but it's also like, there's like critical media literacy that is not happening. Yeah, and it's not even just heated rivalry. Lau and I are also seeing this in the Percy Jackson fandom, and it's a whole thing. People just-
02:30:28
Speaker
not understanding things and it's like hello did we watch the same show because what the fuck are you talking about i do think that media literacy i have also further opinions on i like we can discuss but i do think we need to reevaluate how to be critical like think critically about things like it wasn't just some class you took in middle or high school like you have to it like think about what you were watching and not just blatantly take it because also not to be like tinfoil hat like that's how big brother happens you know like that's how fascism yeah you just let it like happen and not think about it Yes. Amanda, can I invite you to my classes? Can you say that?
02:31:02
Speaker
I learned something in Spanish too. Yeah, please. No, no. They're language students. They know English. so Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So now we are going to move on to our fan mail section as we love to. and Remember, if you want to send in voice memos, voicemails, or any like text We can also read it out loud. You can do so on any of our socials. You can send it to our email at srspod at protonmail.com. And we're looking for you to kind of talk about anything. It could be more critical ideas, but it also could be just you literally screaming into a hot mic.
02:31:44
Speaker
We're totally fine with that as well. But they can be anonymous. They can be whatever you want to talk about. And yeah, our fan mail today comes from actually one of my best friends, Allison. Thank you so much for sending this in.
02:32:06
Speaker
I want to share a theory that I have with you guys. There was chatter in the fandom about who fell in love first and when. So here is my theory on that. I think that Shane fell in love first and it was in the staircase when Ilya is saying goodbye and has to get into his cab. They have that really sweet adorable little kiss and the look on Shane's face just screams to me love. I feel as though Ilya does sort of have feelings of At least like this is more than just a hookup. And he uses things to distract from that. Like the shower. When they're in Russia. Like he says go away. We're not anything.
02:33:04
Speaker
But I think what really seals the deal for Shane. Like absolutely being in love with Ilya. Is the bathroom moment. And wow genetic. ah I mean, that's definitely like the moment that Shane is in love, especially because your situationship ghosts you for six months and you run to his hotel room to fuck him like an hour later. Like, baby, you are so down bad.
02:33:36
Speaker
And the other proof that I have to back it up is When Shane is in Ilya's bed and he says, i need you, like, the look on his face is just, like, longing. And he is so down bad for Ilya. And Ilya is starting to be down bad also. But he is throwing up obstacles. um God, and especially the we didn't even kiss text. Like, Shane, stand up. I love you. but
02:34:10
Speaker
I mean, I personally would not let a situationship treat me that way. i would if I were in love with them, though. so let me know what you think. Thanks, guys.
02:34:27
Speaker
First of all, and this is, yeah, this is always part of the contention of who fell first. And I, I am definitely a part of the like, Ilya fell first. Same. Like, contention. But Allison, you make really good points here. Like, I think, I think this episode, I think we get a lot of growth from Shane. And I think we see...
02:34:49
Speaker
him kind of have more of those emotions towards Ilya like also I mean they've been fucking for like how long now and also I think like I think there is something of like you know Shane and Ilya yes they've hooked up for but I think like having sex, like penetrative sex is a lot more intimate in some ways than maybe just giving one another like blowjobs or whatever they've been doing before. i definitely, I definitely could see like this, I could see the argument being made, like him being like, wow, genetic, like, I think they're just a little bit more flirty with each other. or They're a little bit more comfortable with each other. And so I definitely can see this argument being made. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm also Ilya fell first.
02:35:35
Speaker
um But I agree with Allison. Allison? Yeah, Allison. Or we call her Al. but I agree with Allison with about Ilya throwing a out like obstacles he is he's running for his life but to me that signals that uh he fell already yeah you know like that is me when i'm in love and i don't want to be right um deluluing myself so bad about how little i care and failing
02:36:10
Speaker
Olimpically. Miserably. No, i i literally, like, after I watched this episode, I had a hookup come over, and Like, he was leaving. This is wild to me. They were leaving, and I was literally like, wait, did we kiss? Even though we had kissed, like, multiple times before, I was still like, wait, hold hold on. need to make sure we kissed. Like, this is making me rethink, like, all of my own situationships. Like, yeah. If a man did this to me, or if a femme, or if a woman, or if a they-them did this to me... You know, Allison, you are so right. If my situation should set these things to me, I'm down bad. I'm down bad. I'm down bad. Yeah. Well, and the fact that Shane caves instantly, too, in that bathroom, as I said earlier, like, the fact that he caves does show me that I think he does have feelings. But I think also, like said before, Ilya, think for me, it's when Ilya goes to Shane's house and he's giving him all this shit about, oh, Mr. Businessman, and you have all these pillows and, you know, like, whatever. The come here, no you come here, no you come here. That's a crush.
02:37:16
Speaker
That's a crush. yeah Honey, that's a crush. Yeah, I think I'm in the, unfortunately, I love your points and I love you. I'm still the, I think Ilya fell first. But I don't know if they, like, Shane may have fell first, but he doesn't know it yet. Like, you know, I think that's a part of an aspect. It's like, when did they realize? Because there's definitely times when I've been in love with people before and other people put it out to me and I'm like, no, no way. And then months go by and I'm like, oh, oops.
02:37:38
Speaker
but i'm the I'm the last person, I'm the last person, famously, the last person to notice. Everyone else knows it and I'm just like, I idea. don't know what that's like, guys. I have no idea because I have... It's pain and torture is what it is.
02:37:54
Speaker
Pisces moon. Yes. And she doesn't let me rest. She does not let me rest. i like Part of this conversation of like who fell first... is not only just the who fell first, but who fell harder. And I think Shane, I think Ilya fell first, but I think Shane fell harder.
02:38:09
Speaker
Like, I think that's, that's why, wow. Stop looking at me like that. Like, I think Shane fell harder. Like, I think that he, like, you think Ilya fell harder?
02:38:20
Speaker
oh see ah yeah I don't know if've i don't know if I can know because you say that and I'm like, Ilia is so down. Like Ilia, Ilia, sixth episode. Ilia, no, Ilia, fourth episode. Fourth episode, yeah.
02:38:39
Speaker
I'm sorry. And Ilia, the long game. But then I know it's the same for Shane. It's the same for Shane. niki Well, okay, so this is what i'm saying. is like I don't really know who fell harder. I think if we don't get like Shane's emotional like connection that he's trying to make that he does in this episode, I don't think we would ever have gotten Ilya as down bad in episode four.
02:39:01
Speaker
Hmm. So I think that Ilya starts to open up more after he realizes that Shane's really down bad. Hmm. Also, Persebeth mentioned, I also love the the way I like to think about it. Annabeth fell first, but Percy fell harder. And we know this, I know this to be true. And I just, so thinking about it that way, I do think Ilya fell first. I do low-key think Shane fell harder.
02:39:23
Speaker
but they're both so deeply, by the end they're so deeply in trance with each other and that it's like, it doesn't even matter anymore because they can't, they're so obsessed with each other. that it's They're so obsessed with each other that it's like not even. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay.
02:39:36
Speaker
I don't know. But it's there's arguments for for all sides, I think. Or even if they did at the same time or there's no way of knowing, I think is also a good argument. that It's so hard to figure out. But definitely people I've seen online post the like the oh shit moments that are demonstrated in the show. I think I forget what episode it is. I wish I could. i have such a bad memory. But I think Ilya kisses Shane's head and has like an oh shit moment on his face. I think that's a really good one. Mm-hmm. There are so many just oh shit moments in both of their faces that i think you could compile. but Maybe that's something we should do is compile them and be like, break them down.
02:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. yeah Thank you, Allison. Thank you, Allison. i love you so much. Thank you. Yeah, so that was episode two, The Olympians. So I'm going to hand it over to Amanda to kind of sum up all of the great things that we talked about in this episode and where we're going next.
02:40:28
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. We started this episode in summer of 2011 and we ended in 2014 around the summer. So again, three more years with the boys. This covers their first Olympic Games. We get a lot more context into Ilya's life and what what Russia is like for him and his... We get the specific...
02:40:46
Speaker
a more detailed information about his father's illness because it was maybe hypothesized and in the first episode, but now we know for sure that his dad has some neurological situations going on. We also get some of Ilya's background with Sasha. And we also meet Svelana a lot more, which I personally thought was a great highlight of this episode. But yeah, the the queerness aspect and how that relates to Ilya's home life is one of the big, big themes of this of this
Ilya's team wins Stanley Cup
02:41:10
Speaker
episode. We get Ilya's team winning the Stanley Cup, which was huge and amazing and so fantastic. And we get to see Shane be really proud of him and and cry a little bit about it.
Impact of the Vegas scene
02:41:19
Speaker
And then we get the infamous, infamous Vegas scene with the arch, with the We Didn't Even Kiss, and the the chair drag, and all just the no socks, everything about that scene. That I think, honestly, i know I'm throwing this here at the end, I think that this Vegas scene is what launched heated rivalry. Like, maybe before the first couple of episodes were like, oh yeah, like, it's a gay hockey show. I think the Vegas scene really set it off for a lot of people and skyrocketed it.
02:41:44
Speaker
And I think... In my opinion, I think those are all the the highlights and the the bigger
Episode release strategy
02:41:49
Speaker
beats of the show. Laura, do you have anything you want to add? No, I think that this is one of my favorite episodes.
02:41:57
Speaker
um And I think it was it was clever that they released the first two together. that way Because the first one is really powerful, but as we experience with our own analysis, it has so much packed in it that if you leave people with only that,
02:42:15
Speaker
without developing some of the stuff, it's ah it's a bit too much for like a pilot to stand on its own. But the the combination of these two, like this the other episodes, they work very well as weekly releases.
02:42:30
Speaker
These two needed each other. They needed each other, yeah. To function, yeah. you Like Illya and Shane need each other to be. Exactly! Yeah!
Teaser for next episode
02:42:41
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening. We will see you loonies next week in New York for the skip episode. I'm excited to talk about that and how it relates to the overall universe and how this was structurally put into the show and maybe some implications it might have for season two of Heated Rivalry. But I'm really excited for that and we will see you all next week.
02:43:01
Speaker
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Since Rookie Season. We would love to hear from you about your thoughts. So you can always reach out to us on our social media platforms, which are X, Threads, and Instagram, or contact us at our email, which is srspod at gmail dot at protonmail dot com. We don't have a Gmail.
02:43:22
Speaker
We don't have a Gmail. You also can find Since Rookie Season wherever you listen to your podcasts, including on YouTube Music. Since Rookie Season is created by Lauren, Lau, and Amanda.
02:43:33
Speaker
The cover art is by Lauren and Lau, and Amanda is our editor. Thanks for listening.