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"Rose:" A Rose-anov for You, Valentine
362 Plays3 months ago
ALLTHETHINGSSHESAIDRUNNINGTHROUGHMYHEADRUNNINGTHROUGHMYHEAD--That's right, we're breaking down the Rose episode!! Just for you in this Valentine's time of year. We talk about comp-het, more JJ, and all the angst, plus some 2015-2016 reminiscing (both the good and the bad, which trust me, there was so much of both). See below for things we reference during the episode. Thanks for listening!
Follow us on our socials!
Twitter: @SRSpod
Threads and Instagram: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
References:
- Goalie Fight 1 (highlighter vs Bluey)
- Papa Doc/Francois Duvalier
- Haitian Diaspora in Quebec
- Haitian Canadians in Quebec Political History
- Adrienne Rich Compulsory Heterosexuality
- Robert McRuer Compulsory Able-Bodiedness
- Marc Andre Fleury Tries to Fight Binner
- Trailer Park Sports Network Discovers Hockey
- Goalie Fight 2 (Florida)
- Gasparilla
- Harrison Browne IG
- USA Hockey Banning Trans* Athletes
- Hudson Hates Fries
- "All the Things She Said" Theme Song?
- "All The Things She Said" 20 Years Later
- Ilya Club Shirt
- Stop EATING HOMOPHOBIA CHICKEN
- Rafiki Ban
- Banning Gay Marriage (US)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Series Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Since Rookie Season. The summer before. a heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from the Crave Canada television series, the Game Changers novels, and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon. Today, we're looking into episode four, Rose. So stay with us for lots of angst, jealousy, and the club where nothing is enough.
Episode 'Rose' Discussion
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome back. Today we are going to be discussing the episode Rose, which is the fourth episode in Heated Rivalry. Just a reminder of our season question, we are trying to figure out what makes Heated Rivalry so addictive. Like what is in this story and the way that it was given to us that allows for this amounts of obsession and re-watching.
00:00:56
Speaker
In today's episode, we are doing a deep dive into the tuna melt scene. We meet Rose Landry, o and we will absolutely be discussing the infamous club scene at the end of the episode with all the things she said. I'm so excited. Let's get into it.
00:01:13
Speaker
No, let's get into it. Okay, so the start of this episode is super interesting because we start without a timeline with a face-off, right? it's It's not very clear when because this is followed by a montage, but we know that Boston is winning and Shane is stressed and then we get ah this face-off. At the end, Boston wins. 4-1. So Amanda, what does our count say?
Rivalry and Game Highlights
00:01:40
Speaker
Yes, from what we're shown, Shane is still up three two They do play later in the montage and we don't know who wins later at that point, but from the scores that were shown in the show of who wins and loses, Shane is up 3-2. That includes the two from the Prospect Cup and then this one. and i mean Like we said, they play more. We just don't know the score. But there's still it's basically neck and neck. like One wins, the other wins, one wins, one wins, the other wins. It's a whole like back and forth. So yeah, we finally get a timeline, but it has nothing to do with that face-off, with that game. And we start on summer 2014 after Vegas. We already discussed the timeline and the highlights of this timeline last episode. So I think we can skip that and we get a montage, like the start of the montage. We keep the parallels that we had pointed out in our analysis of episode three. Sorry, episode two. But in this case, we do get one divergence is Ilia parties a lot. Shane doesn't. Shane is always either at Hayden's during like family time some family dinner, doing commercials or reading at home. Yes.
00:02:48
Speaker
The shots of him reading. I think that he's at the cottage reading it back. I was like, oh, I know. I know that space. Well, yeah, because it's summer because that's where he sends his summers at. Like that's so typical of like and NHL players. like you get their like summer rewinds on Instagram and it's all them at their fancy billion dollar cottages in Canada somewhere.
00:03:08
Speaker
i I wish.
Character Development and Relationships
00:03:10
Speaker
I wish. Tea. And we get the slam, fuck, slam, like juxtaposition of scenes. Like slam during the hockey game, then being fucked on the couch, then slam during the hockey game. The editing here is phenomenal by the way. It's so good. It's so good. that Like all like the parallels. Yes. With my mood in the background. oh Yes, I wanted to talk about that later, but it's such a good song. Yeah, I love that song. it it it it really hypes me up every time I see this montage because of the song, you know?
00:03:45
Speaker
I'm just like very happy and it sets my heart for failure. for what comes next. Oh my god I'm always like super happy, super hyped. Even if I know that my heart is going to get broken in a few minutes. Right.
00:04:00
Speaker
Exactly. This is also like, because what we keep seeing is we see like three years of summers. Right. And so like the first summer is 2014. It's right after Ilya wins the cup. And like, I feel like this, like, io winning the cup, like, lights a fire under Shane's ass that is like, oh, he already did it, babe.
00:04:20
Speaker
Come on, go compete. Go compete. Go meet your man. We see them starting to, like, text more and be, like, more, like, interactive with one another as opposed to before when they would only text during the seasons. Now they're texting during the summers and then as we get into 2015 we see Ilya maybe maybe we start to fall in love a little bit he's a little less interested in and his club scene and he's a little more interested in Shane maybe maybe what else do we got in 2015 I also wanted to point out that Shane wins the cup in in one of these parts and Ilya smiles, but Ilya is alone and i I will note that again later because he's not always alone in the cup because if you remember when Ilya wins the cup, Shane is at Hayden's with his whole team, with the whole Montreal crew. um And so then now Ilya is alone just smiling to himself watching him play. So yeah yes. Also speaking of summer 2015, oh my gosh, y'all, there is...
00:05:18
Speaker
I have to tell this story. There is a video of me at like my family gathering in North Carolina. we're We're like a house where we were all rented for all of us to gather at. And I am like videoing but the mountains around me going equality.
00:05:34
Speaker
because we got the legalization of same-sex marriage in the u.s i faced backlash from that for years like my family still remembers that shane gives me so much hell but also like i don't regret it i was not out at the time i did not know how i was queer at the time i thought i was the world's biggest ally and so i took that video but that moment stays with me no i love that like i'm trying to think about where i was during that because i wasn't did i had a No, I, okay, so I was like in undergrad and it was like right before I was going to move down to Indianapolis to like continue my undergrad.
00:06:09
Speaker
And so I don't really remember where I was when Ogilvy got passed, but I remember posting about it on my Facebook and I think on my Instagram. ah So I was also not gay at this point in my life. No, you last time you said in the last episode that you... But I was also like having sex with men regularly. Fair. This was like 20 year old Lauren before Lauren went insane. wo That's like, that's when I moved to Chicago for the first time. Listen, 2015 was a good time. Before the dark times. It was like videos of like Grandpa Joe eating ice cream and...
00:06:47
Speaker
There was so much love in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love is love. Things were progressing. we felt hamilton was in the works. It was going to come out soon. yeah We also get an, since our boys are texting, right? We said, and Ilya texts to Shane, have a boring summer. And I'm counting that as boring number four. There's one that I have a question on later, but this one is definitely counting as boring number four. i wanted to point out that ah every summer montage that we get starts with Ilya running at the same place in Moscow. Who knows if it's actually, I don't think. no So it's like the same place that points out to the viewers that we're not in Canada or in Boston. And i just love it. I love being situated. I like it. Yeah, like for sure. Not having always to have dialogue or like text that is telling me where we are.
00:07:41
Speaker
um i like that. I like that we trust our viewers to visually localize what is going on Yeah, for sure.
Humor and Social Milestones
00:07:50
Speaker
Also, in one part part of this montage, they kiss as they're going up the stairs, which I'm going to put a pin in and we're going to revisit that later. But they kiss going up the stairs.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yes. Also, this is the same park in, I think, in Montreal or wherever they're shooting. um The park that both Ilya and Shane are running at. It's just totally different parts of the park.
00:08:11
Speaker
Hell yeah. What's our saying? Listen, they're wearing a budget, so... that literally on a budget it's called freaks a dollar and a dream it's called dundurn castle in hamilton ontario okay sure so yeah they're in like very similar areas and actually one of the producers of heated rivalry i think his name is brendan i'm pretty sure is the like past Brendan Brady, I think is his name. He is like the director of Shane's like photo shoots. Like you see him talking to Shane because again, we have $3. And a dream. And a dream.
00:08:51
Speaker
and a dream we have We have Shane winning the Stanley Cup again. always have Shane winning it. the um like His team wins it.
00:09:02
Speaker
But he's like in the screen. And Ilja is watching it. But this time he's not alone. He's with Svetlana and other people. And he's like in a very funny voice. Saying, like it should have been me. But you can see...
00:09:18
Speaker
He's joking, he's having a fun time, he's not sad, he's not upset, which is like an important growth and parallel from what we see in the first two episodes. Every time he didn't win against Shane, he was troubled by it because he knew his family was gonna give him shit. and now he's so into shane that he's like meh i love this and so he texts shane lucky and shane answers the luckiest and i said that's emotionally charged that's emotionally charged i love that scene i love that scene and shane in a backwards hat hu oh Okay, this is like my biggest gripe about heated rivalry is there's not enough backwards hat representation. a lot It's so hot. so hot.
00:10:06
Speaker
Hockey players literally can't wear their hats straight. Like they always wear them backwards. And so like I there's just not enough backwards hat representation in this show. And Jacob Tierney, I'm going to at you and tell you there needs to be an or for the next season. So unpopular opinion in this podcast, I don't really mind.
00:10:25
Speaker
Wow. It does absolutely nothing for me. Really? Because i like it usually doesn't do anything for me. But for some reason, that shot of Shane slash Hudson, where he's like getting sprayed with stuff and he's smiling and he's got the backwards hat. I'm like, it's really it's really doing it for me. No, to me, what is doing it for me is it' it's mostly the fact that he is texting while everyone else is celebrating and he wants Ilya to be present in the celebration. And I think that's something, Lauren, you were saying it and I want to highlight it. This montage shows us that progression from like casually texting every once in a while because they start the montage already texting not only to like hook up, but by the end of the montage, you can see how dependent they have become on this conversation via text. like they are not putting any distance between their phones and themselves no matter the situation which this scene portrays so very like great because we know and we're gonna get scenes where shane is like don't don't don't throw water at me i could have my phone or stuff like that but here he's like
00:11:35
Speaker
I don't mind. I'm going to text you, Leah. Exactly. Yeah. OK, so I have a little bit of hockey information to bequeath upon you, bestow upon you. Thank you.
00:11:46
Speaker
So back to back cup wins. There are i think it's let me double check 10 in NHL history, which is from like the early nineteen hundreds 10 different franchises have accomplished a back-to-back Stanley Cup win with 19 total instances of consecutive championships. It's really rare to do, and only three teams have done so in the last 30 years, which are the Pittsburgh Penguins, ah the Tampa Bay Lightning, and the Florida Panthers. Nice. The Florida Panthers literally won the past two consecutive, but we don't like the Florida Panthers because they're all Trumpers. damn boom i' was gonna say Yeah, the Pittsburgh Penguins did it in 2016, 2017. So it's really hard to do. Obviously, um the team with the most back to back wins is the Montreal Canadiens. Actually, in episode six at the cottage, Ilya makes this quip where he's like, historically, the Canadians are the best team in sport. It's not true anymore, because the Yankees have won more championships totals, the New York Yankees and baseball. But Montreal is like second because they've won so many championships. And a dynasty, which is a term that they use in NHL, is when you have a team that does like consecutive wins or multiple wins within like five years. So they call the Chicago Blackhawks, who won in 2010, 2013, and 2015, they call that a Hawks dynasty because the team was so good that they made the playoffs every year. They won multiple titles.
00:13:16
Speaker
They were just a stacked team and it was, they were so hard to play against. And so, you know, they've called the Florida Panthers a dynasty, but right now the Florida to Panthers are having a lot of issues with injury and they haven't been as good this semester or this semester.
Politics and Podcasting
00:13:29
Speaker
Jesus Christ. Can you tell I'm a professor in my real life? for This year. Um,
00:13:33
Speaker
They're trying to start Hawks Dynasty 2.0 right now in Chicago. San Jose is trying to start dynasties. And so this is like creating a dynasty is both. It's not only like drafting high caliber players and training them up in various leagues, in the NHL, in the NCAA, in the ncla and whatever.
00:13:55
Speaker
and making sure that you have like depth of prospects coming through so that you can sustain your dynasty for longer. It's also making sure that you are doing trades that are like benefiting the team in the long run. So like for example, we last year had a really big trade like kind of before the deadline, which is coming up, the and NHL trade deadline, which is basically GMs can't make trades after a certain date because it's too close to the playoffs. And it would like having certain and trades done before the playoffs would make
00:14:27
Speaker
some teams like do better. If like players could get traded at any point throughout the season as close to the playoffs as they wanted to, like what would stop like really high players like who have really good skills from going to teams just for playoff runs? So they have a they have a trade deadline that's usually in March and you usually see a lot of movement between teams during that time. For example, last year the Blackhawks got rid of this defenseman named Seth Jones. We traded him to Florida because he wanted to go to a team that was going to make the playoffs. And we got Spencer Knight, which is one of probably going to be like one of the best goaltenders and like American goaltenders in the NHL in the future. And we got a first round pick for the draft for this year from Florida. So that was seen as like a really good trade and a way to help us like sustain a new dynasty in the Blackhawks. So a lot of it's like a lot of moving pieces when you're thinking about trades, building teams, etc. for really long times. Nice. Interesting. Thank you. I really needed you to explain that to me. Before we continue, there's something I wanted i wanted to say and I forgot at the beginning of this podcast. But you mentioned this theme being Trumpers. And now I need to say it. I think my co-hosts agree with me. But people are giving a lot of shit to the Puck Crew podcast because of their Free Palestine comments on the last analysis they did on Hitted Rivalry. didn't hear about this. Yes, on especially on on reviews. And I just wanted to say first, we stand in solidarity with our peers from the Puck crew, who are very close friends of ours. And also, this is a free Palestine, free Congo, free Haiti, free Sudan, free Haiti, and free Puerto Rico. Free, free all the oppressed people everywhere. ahhu And we are not pro-Trump or anything like that. So if you are one of these people who think that heated rivalry has nothing to do with politics, first of all, rewatch the series, I would say. And second of all, I think this podcast is not for you. Just wanted to make that clear. clear We are going to be touching on political issues as we have done so far.
00:16:44
Speaker
I don't think it's not that the podcast isn't for you. I think that you should learn use this podcast as a way to learn and change your views because... Well, so yeah. Yeah, something I always talk about is that we consistently in the United States see politics as a negative thing. When politics is literally in everything you do, even saying that you are not political or saying that you're apolitical... is taking a political stance of some kind. Exactly. yes And having the privilege to say that.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yes. And you're very privileged to say that. So you may look at reframing, relearning, kind of doing a lot of that stuff. And then come join us on the Free Palestine Movement. Yes. Yes. Because we would love for you to be here. And just remember, there is no pride in genocide.
00:17:29
Speaker
And exactly. And exactly. Now we can continue with that. Now we can continue. Which is a great segue into our next timeline moment. Lau, do you want to tell us
Cultural and Personal Reflections
00:17:38
Speaker
about it? Yeah, well, we are at summer 2016. But and o but first first of all, the good news. You know, the General Synod of Anglican Church in Canada voted in favor of same-sex marriage.
00:17:54
Speaker
Also, Health Canada relaxed blood donation restrictions on men who have sex with men. reducing the deferral period from five years to one year. And after that, well, 2016 is awful. full So, you know, yeah, this was the year that I started high school. This was the year I got my learner's permit. This was so chaotic. The following in the following spring, like in that school year. So spring 2017 is when I got into a messy queer relationship. My first one, it was
00:18:28
Speaker
Nuts. It's, yeah, just a messy, messy time overall. Messy time indeed. Yeah. I mean, summer 2016 literally feels like a fever dream. Like, now that I look back back at it, like... Like, 2016 is on par with 2024 in terms of, like, terrible years. Yes. Yeah, for sure. But the summers felt like you were like, oh my God, maybe we could have a woman president. That would be crazy. No, we can't. We can't in America. i'm sorry. We just can't. um We just can't. We just can't have nice things. Something to maybe cheer us up. This is the year that I started dating my current partner. So yay for me. Oh my God, 10 years. Look at you guys. I know.
00:19:08
Speaker
I'm so happy. Okay, so we have a new parallel in this montage, which I call the father parallel. We see Ilya very stressed, giving his father some medicine while he's talking on the phone. Who knows if with doctors or with his brother, but he seems stressed. And then we see Shane and David having a good time at the cottage, just talking about the past and some kid from Shane's childhood or something like that. And then we get this moment that I know we all loved, Lauren, Amanda and I. Ilia ignores this woman at the bar to not to answer Shane's message, to reread past messages. Right. yeah And Shane is doing the same thing during family dinner. i think it's one of Hayden's kids like birthday or something. And he's like under the table, like a high school kid texting in class, yeah rereading this text.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah, and technology moment, we definitely have touchscreens here. I wasn't too keen on on the last section, but definitely by now we've got touchscreens. So definitely iPhones, the blue bubbles. it's I feel the technology shift from the late 2000s and early teens to the mid to late 20 teens. Do you know what I mean? like I feel like there's a ah shift within that decade of of technology, and now we're on that other side. Also, he films the commercial that we see during the skip episode. The commercial that travels in time?
00:20:43
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Which is why I always watch this episode before the skip episode. It's fine. It's fine.
00:20:51
Speaker
It's fine. I like something I also noticed during this kind of whole montage is we see Shane wear like less and less clothes, like when working out. And so that to me like signals that he's becoming like a little more like, um like comfortable with himself and maybe maybe more comfortable with his like sexuality and like showing off a little bit, which is then why this aquarium scene with Hayden hits us like a shit ton of bricks because they're like so why aren't you dating women yeah yeah excellent segue but before we we segue to that funny scene because it's funny even if we're touching on very hard subjects Amanda, did it did you want to say something about the song that plays during the montage? The Moon and My Man? we mentioned it we mentioned it earlier, but the whole... this is ah there's so The music in this just loops in my head constantly. like Whenever I'm thinking about couples and specific points in time, I'm thinking about some of these songs. The Skip I'm thinking about at the end of episode 5. That is their song. And for me, like just The Moon, The Moon and My Man is just so... Like they are each other's man, but only in the moonlight, you know, and they're thinking about each other a lot. And like Ilya is like clubbing and stuff, he's still thinking about Shane and they're just in each other's heads all of the time. And so like the moon in my man, it's like, it's really just the moon and in each other, you know, like it's no one else. It's they're each other's world, basically. i and it's so so sexy and playful the music is so playful and yeah I think that's why it works so well like we're seeing a montage where they have established a rhythm of communication long distance and they're being playful they're they're relaxed most of the time, even though we have some scenes like the commercials or Ilya at the club by the end that seem to be like, but the the song is playful and it's communicating like we're happy, which is why we should have known that this episode was going to wreck us because oh this is the beginning of the episode. The beginning of the end. yeah We are happy at the start. nothing good awaits us yes also i wanted to throw out there i forgot to mention it earlier because i've had a whole a whopping two hours of sleep i finished the long game finished the long game everyone so i don't we probably won still won't give spoilers but i now we can no i'm fully jumping on the spoilers train of the long game at this point lauren you get you get one spoiler per episode maybe it's a new context spoiler or something yeah for sure all right so we very quickly move into october 2016 where we go to the aquarium with hayden which i think this is a really funny scene because one just like the non-existent children in this that are just like laughing on screen like that's so funny yeah they're that's so funny to me hayden not getting recognized like because like Hayden's definitely on Shane's line like he's definitely Shane's winger so like well and also these girls say can you hold his baby but wouldn't they know that he doesn't have a baby like the math there is not math thing and Hayden says something about like says him having kids and he goes geez hey do you want to get me pregnant too and I just wanted to shout out the Shane and pregnant moment hilarious shane is hilarious during this fact that hudson supports this wait the mprag yes he's like you get that bottom boy pregnant i don't know how but you get him pregnant he's so funny like hudson's such a freak and he loves us for it yeah and i love shane has the most beautiful report with hayden even when he's feeling stressed you know even when he's telling the baby like can you tell your father to leave me alone? He loves this man so much. They have developed this friendship that is so precious. And I love when Shane is like, so now we both have to make your wife happy. And Hayden is like, well, yes, if you want her to keep stocking our fridge with ginger ale, yes, we do.
00:24:59
Speaker
No, and he, exactly. Yeah, I think this, like, we hear a little bit about, it like, a Shane's ex, like, Jessica that he was hanging out with, which we don't that Yes, was going talk that. We, yeah, we get to see, like, Shane as, I feel like this is, like, the first time where we get to see Shane as an adult. Like, he is, like, a real human being. Like, he's on his own. He's doing his own thing. Yuna isn't, like, hovering in the background.
00:25:24
Speaker
It is Shane as an adult. carrying a baby in a very uncomfortable way for everyone who wants to know how you carry a baby without like having back problems very quickly you use your hip as a seat for the baby a baby that big like newborn babies are different but a baby the size and the age of this baby you can sit them on your hip And that will make your shoulders carry less weight and probably save your back. So don't take babies in your arms like Shane is doing here. He's a game man. He doesn't know shit. doesn't know shit about hockey. He's a hockey player. He has no idea what he's doing here.
00:26:07
Speaker
He doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah. So then we get to Boston at Ilya's and Ilya is watching Shane's cottage video thing. Like the little like like behind this. Like I kind of what Lauren was talking a recap of just like he's talking about he's doing yoga and whatever else about his cottage. She's really hyping up this cottage, you know, and Svetlana is ready to go. But she calls Shane hot. And i it's so funny. Ilya calls it boring, which I don't know if i should count it since it's not to Shane. don't want to know what y'all think, but he's just so like This is so funny to me, like the whole Svetlana between them and she's just above them all in terms of like intelligence. I have another thing i'll mention about it later, but there's she's so funny. I count that boring. I say valid. Okay, so five? Yeah, for sure. Okay. I think we can count it I also, when Svetlana says Jane in Russian she like puts every word that she speaks before it has kind of like a weird s on it so it almost sounds like she's saying Shane but she's saying Jane and so I think it is like very much like a fun little like poke the bear kind of situation and I mean I'll talk about this later where like Rose and Rosanoff come on come on Rachel Reed come on Come on, girl. We see you. In the car, she asks about Jane, and Ilya says it's nothing serious, but Smedlana has been new since day one. Baby girl is smartest the whole show. like She knows Ilya so well.
00:27:29
Speaker
i don't she clocked like she Maybe she didn't know Jane at first because she was there. She surprised him, if you remember, in Ilya's apartment. after right after he gets Shane's phone number and he she's like, oh, who's Jane? but Like whatever. But I think somewhere between that point and where she sees the cottage video, I think at some point she connects the dots and realizes it realizes that it's Jane because it's like, who else would he be seeing in Montreal at that specific time that he's texting? Like the dots are there. i don't think it's crazy math. Yeah. And just after this, we get the scene with Hayden and Shane at the hotel in Boston. And Hayden is also clocking this Lily thing, right? So Hayden starts like just basically making jokes about it because Shane is getting ready to go out and Shane insists that Lily is just a buddy and Hayden is like, uh-huh, sure. Yes. Hayden drops the, I hope you get laid because you play so much better after. Shane's brain just like explodes and that's it. He's so adorably awkward here. he it makes me giggle. he's The way he's he's standing all like awkwardly, like not really knowing what to do with his body because he's like wanting to go see his mans, but like not he wants to be so chill about it, but mans is not playing cool at all. Yeah, we know you we know you see some girl named Lily. You're like, clocked.
00:28:50
Speaker
clocked! Every time you're in Boston, you see Lily. Yeah. So speaking of Lily... Speaking of Lily, we get to Lily's house.
Intimacy and Emotional Growth
00:28:59
Speaker
And Ilya is arranging his hair before opening the door. They're both shy and nervous. This is a big-ass door, by the way. Big-ass door. Realistic...
00:29:08
Speaker
Mr. Real Estate. Mr. Landlord. Can we stop for a second to just dissect Shane saying, do we think we need to talk before Ilya says like no and kiss him against the counter in the kitchen? yeah what do you think that's about? I don't know. Like...
00:29:25
Speaker
You wanna talk about anything? No, literally, like, I've done it with hookups before. Like, you wanna- Are we just gonna- Oh, I thought he meant it as in, like, do you wanna talk about us or- Like, so I thought he was, like, a serious you do- Do we need to talk? I didn't think it was casual. That- That was my feeling as well.
00:29:39
Speaker
I thought it was, like, very much like, um, like, do you think we need to talk about anything? Like, and then they were like, nope, we're just here to fuck. So maybe the the reason why I think he is initiating a serious conversation is because I know that in the book he is thinking, i am gonna go just to talk and say we need to stop.
00:30:01
Speaker
yeah And then he gets distracted by ilia Well, and like Ilya is low-key feeling the same, but can't resist, which is why I think he's like, we're not, we're using our mouths for something else right now. We're not talking. We are doing something else. Yeah. If we talk, we get into dangerous territory. We know how they behave. We have emotions if we talk. Jesus Christ. Yeah. We saw that in Vegas and then they didn't even kiss. So, you know, definitely avoid that. Let's definitely kiss before anything else. Then we jump to a sex scene.
00:30:30
Speaker
And first of all, the marvelous, marvelous, marvelous gift that it is seeing Shane riding Ilia. We know that this is the moment where we all lost our minds because you can see the stretch marks in Shane's legs and we love that and Hudson has talked about it and we love that we didn't edit those out. Then we have the position change, so Ilya's on top and this is our first sex scene that functions as a preamble to intimate conversation.
00:31:05
Speaker
whereas in the first two episodes every single sex scene was the intimacy that was being had we didn't have intimacy in any other way that wasn't sexual so I i like the the change that we're getting here of course we're also getting like we're fucking in plain daylight with which never happened before. Right. and it's super brief compared to the other ones.
00:31:32
Speaker
It's not as... Like, it's super sexy, yes. And we see Shane riding Ilya. But it's not the center of what is happening here. It's not the center of the dynamic. It's just a preamble to Ilya asking Shane to stay the night and to spend the afternoon and evening with him at his place. What is hating your mother? hating your mother. Okay. Also, Shane riding. Like, we don't talk about how good Shane is at riding that dick.
00:32:06
Speaker
Like. Yes. He got the twerculator going on back there. Like, he got... The choreography is perfect. Absolutely perfect. He's moving his hips. He's moving his ass.
00:32:19
Speaker
All of the body parts are moving. And you know what? yeah God bless. God bless. And we get to see we get to see the stretch marks. Yeah. And Ilya is just so into him. Like, what can you say? Like, it's so, to me, this is very much giving, as we were talking about before, of the who fell first. And to me, this is just another indicator that Ilya fell first because he's so desperate for that intimacy and to have the domestic domesticity, which is why he has hit him say for tuna melts. Like, it's, he wants that so bad with Shane because he doesn't do that with anyone else. It's for him, I think, its at this point, it's definitely only Shane.
00:32:51
Speaker
Right. and And Shane doesn't know how to respond to this because all he's gotten from Ilya before is, like, Not domesticity. Like, we're not doing this. We are just fucking and leaving. Like, we fuck. It's like, we fuck and we leave and that's fine. Yeah, he really thought he was gonna see Hayden that night very early and he was not gonna get any questions about it. We have a nap and cuddle.
00:33:15
Speaker
Our first napping and cuddling. i And then, I am hungry for what? For food pervert. And sweet boob squeeze. Ha ha!
00:33:26
Speaker
That's an emotional support titty. That's an emotional support titty. Don't take it away from him. Correct. We get the tuna melt offering and the ginger ale. They get small talk. It's so adorably awkward because they're just navigating this for the first time of like, how do we do this when we can actually be nice to each other and not assholes? And like, I can just imagine Ilya being like,
00:33:46
Speaker
I need to like practice all of this. Like he's like setting all of this up. Like he's got all the ingredients to make the tuna melt. That is a part of Shane's macrobiotic diet. He's got the ginger ale cold. He's going to put it on hockey so that they can like watch it together. He talks about hockey because he knows that's what Shane wants to talk about. He was trying to do everything to not scare this man away. And then his dad calls. He loves Shay so much. It's so bad. Oh, I can't. So they're on the sofa and the distance between them is so clear to the viewer. And again, this framing, and I'll talk about it again later, but this framing of where are our players, where our characters in frame? Like in Vegas, like how are they like so close to each other? And with Skip, like where are they in relation to each other? Because they can have be having an an ah intimate conversation, but if they're sitting on opposite ends of the couch, it don't mean shit. this framing of just where their distance is on what part of the frame, I think is huge. It tells a lot. and And you see them come closer and closer and closer as the conversation goes. ah So when at at the beginning, they're super far away and the sofa is massive. So it's like really highlighted how tiny they are. look and how far away they are. But then we when when we get Shane asking Elia like what are the cities you like the most ah to go and play and all of that and they're getting closer and closer. We get a ryan's Ryan Price mention.
00:35:21
Speaker
I really want to have him in season two. I think if he had an episode like Skip, I think that would be great. I really like his book. I don't know if that's a spoiler, but also that's just kind of the the plot of the book is that he gets one. I think it's number two, three after Heated Rivalry. Is it? Yeah.
00:35:38
Speaker
It's Tough Guy, right? okay Also, I think I forgot to mention earlier the artwork above Ilya's couch. Some people say it's it's supposed to look like the Heated Rivalry book cover, but I don't see it. I, yeah, i' I must be stupid. I don't, I don't see it. Like, I think it's the same colors, but like, I don't, I don't get it. don't need to see it like superimposed, you know? Yeah, that's what i need too. Also, the couch is very much giving like, two dudes a hot tub, five feet apart. Exactly. Exactly. Like.
00:36:11
Speaker
like i feel like very much jaina's like i need to sit this far away from this guy in case anybody comes into this house and then like them eating the tuna melts on the coffee table forces them to be closer and then like yeah they like keep moving like they keep gravitating towards one another and yeah yes that's their whole story in a nutshell For your count, Amanda, we get the whole banter that ends with like, and people say you're not funny. Who says that? Me. I say that. Yeah. we get our board People say you're boring. People say you're boring. Yeah, so I'm counting on a that as number six. They say, they call out Buffalo as like a bad team, which I think is really funny because Buffalo, since that episode has come out, Buffalo's been on like a hot streak. And they've won. Like, they are on, like, their winning a streak in, like, the history of the franchise, which is hilarious. Because Buffalo so is, like, nobody wants to go there because it's such a shitty team. Also, not Ilya's hand just, like, casually being in his pants. Like, the whole time.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yes, it's so self-soothing, so domestic. I think it's really not like almost vulnerable because I don't think he would do it in front of his other boys. I think he can do it in front of Shane because he knows that Shane will judge him for it and that he can be himself and unmask a little bit. And I think that this is that is him just being like hanging out This is me.
00:37:33
Speaker
You know, we also get his hand on like across his head, touching his ear. yes i love it and we've talked about ilia and like how much he moves and like uses his body to convey things but we also get some vulnerability when he says the line but you know me i'm lazy so and shane's like right i don't know that side of you like m and he melts like the awful thing they're gonna eat Okay, these two are certified TunaMelt haters.
Hockey Culture and Weather Humor
00:38:05
Speaker
I love a TunaMelt. I'm honestly thinking about having one for dinner. Listen, I'm gonna say what I told you yesterday. i love tuna alive in the sea. I'm a vegan. I don't love animals dead on plates. But also, before I was a vegan, I hate the smell of tuna.
00:38:22
Speaker
Same. It makes me vomit. And to think of the texture of tuna with melted cheese... Makes me want to throw myself from a window or something. Also in this talk about different locations in which they play hockey, Ilya, this cracks me up, Ilya, they say like, oh, i like the hot places and when they're like like teasing about it, but also Ilya says they love him in Florida. because it's full of Boston people. And I just as Floridian born and raised the all 24 years of my life, except for the six months I spent in New Zealand, all 24 years have been in Florida. And this, this like cracks me the fuck up because like, What do you Canadians know about snowbirds? What do you know about ah new Northerners moving to Florida? so okay snowbird When I say snowbird, I mean people who for the for the majority of the year live in the North, usually New York. Other parts of Florida have different. My part of Florida gets a lot of New Yorkers, but also some like New Englanders. but Then somewhere between like November, between Halloween and Thanksgiving, um or maybe even after, they come down and live part of their life in Florida and then leave after Easter. and they make traffic an issue, they make housing an issue because now they've got multiple houses. They've got like just, they complained about everything. they Like everything is such a nightmare when it's snowbird season. And sure, sometimes it can be great for local economies, but growing up in Florida my whole life and like half of the time it is a ghost town and then the other time it is full of these Q-tip headed ass people is so annoying. And so I just- thought
00:39:54
Speaker
I just think that Ilia recognizing that I felt like somewhat vindicated but also just like ah yeah exactly if you didn't pick up on this it's because there's fucking people who moved to Florida thinking it's all well and good and then they've got like a million STDs in the villages it's a whole thing. Also, this is kind of a tongue-in-cheek reference to something that happened in hockey last year, which was that Brad Marchand of the Boston Bruins got traded to Florida at the deadline, which was like super crazy because Brad Marchand had been on the Boston Bruins for a really long time. And if you don't know who Brad Marchand is, he is the player that's known for licking and kissing other players on the ice during games.
00:40:35
Speaker
Oh, Ilya-coded. Very Ilya-coded. Except Fred Martian's also a maggot. Oh, ew. But also during this week in in hockey, is during time of recording, ah which is like first week of February, there was a game with the Boston Bruins playing some people in like blue or some shit. I saw a tweet that said that it was like- what tampa bay at the yeah it's a part Would you like me to explain this? or you go i saw I saw a funny meme, which first of all, it was a goalie fight, which i don't know if we've talked about it before, but goalies don't usually fight, which was a whole other set of memes that I saw. But it was a highlighter fighting Bluey, and that just really sent me, I talked to my lab tech about it, who's really into hockey, and it's just really funny that, because... Boston is like what yellow and then Tampa is blue. And so it like just looked like a highlighter fighting bluey. And so this whole like Boston moment is just killing me endlessly.
00:41:26
Speaker
So Florida played Boston. Okay. So because Florida has now won the Stanley Cup championships two years in a row, they do two big games every year. outdoors for the NHL. One of them is the winter classic. It's always either New Year's Eve or New Year's Day.
00:41:47
Speaker
And then the other one is called the stadium series and they play in like either a baseball or a football stadium. And so These both took place in Florida this year. And it was really funny because a month ago when the New York Rangers played the Florida Panthers, they couldn't keep the ice cold enough. Like they couldn't get it to freeze. It kept like getting puddles and being like really slushy because it was too warm in Florida to have an outdoor rink. Like,
00:42:13
Speaker
duh And then this month, it was too cold in Florida for the rink, and the rink kept cracking. The ice kept, like, getting fucked up, which was causing divots, and it can cause, like, a lot of injuries for players. So, yeah. But talking about goalie fights, it's really funny because goalie fights rarely ever happen. The goalies usually, when there is a fight happening, they, like, get out of the way. But one of the...
00:42:36
Speaker
One of my favorite goalies of all time, his name is Marc-Andre Fleury. I talked about him last episode. But he wanted to have a goalie fight so bad, and the refs literally wouldn't let him. Like, he took off his helmet, and he took off his mitts, and the refs wouldn't let him fight. And now there's been, like, two goalie fights in two weeks. And, like, I just need Marc-Andre Fleury to suit up, go play with, like, the Penguins, sign a one-day contract with the Penguins. The next time they play, the St. Louis Blues, because we all hate Jordan Bennington. And I need... Marc-Andre Fleury to beat the shit out of Jordan Bennington since they're letting goalie fights happen now. I also think it's so funny that usually after players fight they get a penalty because you imagine if both goalies got penalties like that'd be so funny. So when a goalie gets a penalty another team player sits for the penalty. So like both get penalties because they'll like trip people in the crease or whatever, but they don't get like pulled out of the game. Another person off the bench gets pulled to sit for the penalty. What was the tweet you were saying? Did that ruin the tweet? No, it did not ruin the tweet. I also, this weekend that this thing happened that we're talking about with the game outside in Florida where they had to heat the ice because it was too cold, which is a whole other set of issues about the fucking weather down here this week. But it was Gasparilla, which if you're not...
00:43:48
Speaker
If you're not familiar with Gasparilla or Gaspi, as we also know it, in my experience as ah someone who went to college in Central Florida, is an excuse for people to dress up like pirates and go get drunk on boats that are moored in the Tampa Bay. um and it's a whole, like everyone's day drinking the whole time and then gets incredibly sick. But I saw this. So this is happening at the same time as his hockey game. in Tampa. And I saw this tweet that said someone watches their first ever hockey game tonight. It's outside in Florida. One team shows up in football uniforms. The other are 1700s Patriots. One coach is Scarface. The goalies fight. And at the end, they do a bunch of breakaways to break the tie. Fever dream sport. And it's just such a great time to be a Floridian because i I don't know what's going on, but I'm having a great time. No, this is like, ah I love how people get into hockey. One of my favorite like hockey creators, his name is Traylor Spock.
00:44:35
Speaker
trailer park sports network instagram but he got into hockey during the four nations face off last year when there were three fights in seven seconds of a game and he was like i am like bricked up for this sport this is crazy like these dudes are just duking it out on the ice Like, this is insane. Like, I love this sport. And so, yeah, he got really into it just because of that thing. And I i can't wait for more people to get into hockey during the Olympics. But just remember that the hockey of romance novels and the hockey of heated rivalry are very different than the hockey of the real world, which fucking sucks. It's true. It's true. So anyway, back to our fantasy hockey where things are not always fun, but like we can have a bit more fun and live in our fantasy world. We get the talk about women and sexuality. There's not a lot actually being said between them, but they are trying to communicate some different things here. So Shane has no idea what he's saying, I fear. And I also think Shane is endlessly jealous of Svetlana. Yeah, no, I just wanted to say, like, like yeah, Ilya seems to be trying to have a conversation that Shane has no idea is happening. And I want to clarify that we do not think
00:45:52
Speaker
because this has been like a whole discourse on threads. We do not think that Shane is stupid or less intelligent than Ilya. No, just you know how sometimes people are talking to you and you have no idea what they mean?
00:46:07
Speaker
Ilya is not being like very forward with it. He's just testing the waters, trying to get a sense of what Shane's sexuality is. And Shane is not ready for that conversation. So it's not ah it's not an issue of intelligence, it's an issue of being in the closet. I was like, I just don't think Shane realizes. and also I don i think Ilya is trying not to scare him, but he's beating around the bush. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like trying to approach this very scary and angry kitten.
00:46:36
Speaker
And Shane is like blocking this whole thing from his mind because we are not having this conversation. He's not ready. So I just wanted to clarify that we're not saying like Shane is stupid. We're just saying we are still not in sync of what kind of conversations we're having, which is something that we have seen before with the Russia thing. So Ilya wasn't ready to talk about that. Now Shane is not ready to talk about Liking or not liking women.
00:47:08
Speaker
Imagine not liking women. Like, oh my God, no. Tea? I would never. Jesus Christ. I think also, like as a neurodiverse person, which we know that Shane is definitely, i am constantly trying to think about like what like why is someone talking about the thing that they're talking about? like What are they trying to get at? And like trying to overanalyze why they are mentioning that specific thing to me in this instance. um And so I think that Shane is already like always reading into Ilya anyways because he recognizes that Ilya says a bunch of things and then does a bunch of different things that don't go along with what he says a lot. And so he's very much like, wait, what is going on?
00:47:56
Speaker
Like, what am I missing the point here? Like, are you trying to set me up with your friend Svetlana because she thinks I'm hot? Like, I clearly am not interested in her. I'm interested in in you. Like, so Shayna is just very overall confused. And as like, it's like exhausting to constantly be like that. But that's, I mean, that's just being neurodivers. Yeah. Yeah, I think also, I've been thinking about this since I got my own diagnosis, about how much like my state of alert is on constantly, because I grew up, I had a childhood where half of the time I had no idea what was happening socially, like, why are people saying this? Why is this happening? What is going to happen? And that made me feel so uncomfortable and out of place, and it
00:48:45
Speaker
took me to situations where I was feeling very very uncomfortable so I developed this like high awareness state where I'm like trying to anticipate what's where are we going with this all the time And sometimes I, that makes me miss the point of the conversation because I am three steps ahead without having understood where we are right now. So like for me, it was super relatable. For me, it makes a lot of sense that Jenny is like, what is going on?
00:49:20
Speaker
Right. And then to then have the situation where they like, Ilya gets up and clearly comes back from this phone call with his dad, where he's like, very distressed. Like we see him as the viewers where he's like literally like shaking out things like playing with his necklace like trying to like make him like self-soothe and make himself feel okay and then comes back to this conversation with Shane where he's trying not to project that he's tense but Shane immediately clocks that something's wrong knows that like the way that you can kind of get Ilya to settle is through sex goes through the motions of having sex with him and then Ilya says his name and he's like wait what yeah wait
00:49:59
Speaker
Am I not understanding anything that's going on right now? because Yeah, it's back to to no emotion. So using bodies to reach the other the only way they know how. what i just want I just want to say about this sex scene, the hand like movements and touches at the beginning when Shane is going down, Ilya's hands and sha Shane's hands, the choreography is beautiful. like It's so different from what we see. before this and ah yes the names and the being face to face like mouth to mouth it's it's it's telling us a lot about how intimate and different this moment is but also the hands the hands yeah tell a a whole story here that for me was one of the most precious elements of the choreography of this scene and of course it it it always gets me like the way they breathe into each other's mouth the way they breathe They're like maintaining eye contact the way Yulia is like completely melting under Shane's touch. The are you gonna come fucking make me? The spitting in the hand. Everything is just like it's so raw and so vulnerable and you you understand how Shane clocks that this is different from before. yeah I think it's because Ilya has feelings and he knows it. And wo yes, I think Ilya went into this entire thing knowing that he had feelings and that he was trying to do something about it. But he like, like, and this just goes to show that like, yes, they've been like communicating more another with one another. It's just like Scott and Kepp. Like, yes, they've been communicating with one another, but they are like, or no, yes, they've been having conversations with one another, but they are not communicating with one another. Like, yes, they text all the time, they might have ideas about stuff or whatever, but like it just hits differently. Yeah. Yeah. i I have something else to say about this scene. I don't know y'all. I just wanted to highlight the face acting. It breaks heart. It breaks my heart. Like the way Connor's story manages to act, being on his, I'm gonna quote Bridgerton here, his pinnacle. Coming down from that orgasm to this man going away and freaking out and his brain is trying to connect and understand what is going on
00:52:21
Speaker
yeah It breaks my heart because he was reaching nirvana and he was on lead yeah suddenly his heart is getting broken broken in yeah a billion pieces. In a million pieces. Yeah. And I do know that Connor breaks accent on one of the times where he says, like, go. Like, when they're, like, yeah he's, like, they're having this back and forth. It sounds enough like Shane, but if you look really carefully, Ilya says it, but that you're so, like, ah it's like a tennis match. The Wimbledon one that Shane doesn't go to. LOL. But they're, like, in this, like, he's, like,
00:52:55
Speaker
He's like, oh, Challengers? Challengers was Vedlana who said that? They're in this like back and forth of like, don't go, don't stay, don't don't, no, don't, that you get lost in it. But, oh, it's so, I feel like that script had to be choreographed in a way, you know? Like, I feel like that is a dance in itself. Yeah, like even them them saying their names, like if you watch their mouths during that part, they don't, it's like an audio replacement. Like they, like their mouths don't say their names, which is like, Like, I first noticed that when I was, like, watching the show. And that really sucked because I know that's, like, such a big moment in their story. But, like, I understand why they did it because, like, there's so much other stuff that's going on during that scene that it just, like, might have been hard to pick up their their voices, like, during it. so But also it does, like, if you think about it if you analyze it or whatever, you do the the the English teacher with the blue curtains or whatever, it can mean that, like, it's out of their control.
00:53:58
Speaker
Like, it is just said by the whole situation. even Even, like, there's a lot being said that they're not saying with their mouths. Right. So we can play a bit with the narrative and interpret how that thing... We didn't talk about it, but the spitting in the hand. Yeah? For the hot... That's all I have to say is hot. That's all I to say. mean, picking at hands, we get the Hollander, Hollander with the hand up as an offering extended out, palm up. I mean, boy oh boy. I cry every single time, I cry. It's, it's, I mean, it's so reminiscent of the Vegas rooftop in the first episode. Yes, exactly. It has so many parallels to that.
00:54:41
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, we get emotionally destroyed. I like to say that episode, at ah episode four ends after Ilya makes Shane to them out and then nothing else bad happens in that episode. you're talking about. Nothing bad ever happens. ah Nothing bad has ever happened. Just like episode two ends when they kiss on the stairwell.
00:54:57
Speaker
They don't go to the Olympics. What? No, that's where the Olympics. Now we pivot to the restaurant with David and Yuna. I don't know how long after Ilya's, after he's at Ilya's, but we get it's ah it's so very soon after because Shane is in a state TM at this thing. So, But I wanted to talk about the seating arrangements. I've spoken about it. I don't remember which episode in one of the first two ones where Shane's at brunch with his parents or he's at food with his parents and he's in them in between them, like framing wise, shot wise. And then this is related again to my thoughts about Shane and Ilya being on opposite sides of the couch on opposite ends of the frame. And here they are.
00:55:34
Speaker
it's It's framed similarly and it's just barely there, but it's enough for you to kind of almost subconsciously take it in. The waiter asks if someone else is expected and Yuna says, no it's just the three of us. Like there should be another person in the family. And this is reflected in the shot from behind, you know, where Shane is in the he's in the left third of the shot. And then there's an empty chair and the right third of the frame. As he says, as he's talking about, he says, next to someone I don't know. Bro, bro, because they're trying to, his parents are trying to set him up with this Rolex thing to the Wimbledon tennis, whatever. And he says, someone next to someone I don't know with an empty chair. So this is telling us that maybe, there is there someone missing in his life? Should there be someone else in this family? Is there Shane missing this companionship? Or that level of kind of analysis is there? And we can kind of infer that there, as viewers, that there could be someone there. There theoretically could be someone there. And they're trying to help him fill this in his life. But he is... in that state and he's kept in that left third of the frame the whole time. like and Like I said, last time he was in the middle and now he shifted over to that left third where there's space for someone in the right third. He's very uneven here, unbalanced both internally and within his personal life. And when I first picked up on that, I was like, oh my god, ah it's nuts. Yeah.
00:56:50
Speaker
It's also like very subtle foreshadowing, right? It's like yeah foreshadowing that he is going to be involved with Rose in some way. even if that's not who he wants to be sitting next to. Like yeah all of this, all of the lead up to meeting Rose in Montreal, we have so many mentions about Shane not dating, Shane not having a partner. When is he going to join all of his friends? All of these things. And this like scene with his parents, when he's talking about this Swedish princess, just reinforces that Shane is alone.
00:57:22
Speaker
And it's, heartbreaking. Yeah. It's so sad. I love that we get a mention of the race issue here with Shane like being super candid about why they want him at Wimbledon.
00:57:36
Speaker
We know that famously Wimbledon is a very white space. Like not only the dress code is super white, but it's a white event, right? It's very preppy. Like the public is very white. It's super expensive. So he clocks the quota thing that Rolex is doing immediately. And it takes Yuna and David. like They're very shocked because Shane usually stays quiet about this. He's not someone who complains about these kind of things. And I really like this... exchange because you can see how David and Yuna want to reach out. They want to know what's going on.
00:58:18
Speaker
And Shane is just putting wall after wall after wall. So also cutting off Ilya is not only putting a wall between Ilya and himself with but between him and everyone else. So David tries. He's like, you seem tense. Then we get Shane telling you, you know, like you two should go. And Eunice is like, but they don't want us. They want you. You're the famous one. And he's like, ah we can say that i that I'm going and then pretend that I got sick or something. And she says, I don't want you to lie. That is not who you are. and you you can see the pain.
00:58:56
Speaker
The painting his eyes. Bro. Bro. Yeah. Because like at the end, I mean, we see how that we'll talk about it in episode six, but like, it's so hard because he's not a liar. He doesn't want to have to hide. And yet we see in this and then in the long game, it's this whole, the fear and anxiety. And so in his, in his like upsetness, he goes up to the bathroom and, and David is like a Swedish princess, really. And Because David knows that that it's not really Shane. He doesn't, I don't, I think that he's close with his son and that he doesn't know exactly that Shane's gay, even though Shane like is trying to tell them at least once or twice, he is trying to tell them that he's not straight and they don aren't really super receptive to it. But I think David is a bit more understanding of his son. And I, well, I don't think he knows all of it until episode six. I think he is like, a our son is not Swedish princess material. I just love how Juna is like, sorry, I panicked. You know, like, I didn't know what else to say. So tri Swedish princess just came out. But they're both like, that was stupid. That was so stupid.
01:00:01
Speaker
I think this is a really good moment in the show. Because from what we've seen so far, as we know that like, Ilya's dad is the bad parents and Shane's parents are the good parents, you know. And we see that even though like Yuna and David mean well, they still don't fully understand their child in some way, shape or form. And it comes off in and it and it negatively impacts their child's life. And so it shows that like, even though like on the outside, they could be, you know, the best parents, In the world that like the lack of like truly understanding Shane, like Ilya's parents don't, or Ilya's dad doesn't understand him, like can like form cracks and issues in a relationship.
01:00:55
Speaker
And so I think this is also like a good moment to show that like maybe Shane can relate to some of the things that Ilya is going through with his father. like They do have a lot of similarities just in different ways. Yeah, and you know it's also showing us that there is not a perfect way to parent.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yes. Because they they are trying. Yes. But also the way that compulsory heteronormativity is like in putting like in our brains since like the sweetest age they are not like even if they suspect that maybe Shane is gay because we see them like and and and they will say it in the future like We thought that might be the case when, when they have to go into autopilot mode, when, when, when one of them panics and tries to connect and tries to get Shane's attention, they go back to these like very traditional ways of engaging with your kid. So I, I really appreciate it because we get this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful couple who is supportive, who is, always trying to care for their son, to check on him because David is asking, is there anything you want to talk about? You seem tense. They're very at like in tune with emotions. We talk about emotions in this family, right? The thing is, they are part of a system where there's only one path possible and they tend to fall on that when they don't know what is going on. So it really sucks for them and for Shane. But I appreciate that we don't get like perfect parents anywhere in this show, even with the parents that we love and that we see as good parents.
01:02:46
Speaker
Yes. And the term that Lau is talking about is called compulsory heterosexuality. It is often referred to as comphet. It's basically this theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people in like patriarchal, allonormative and heteronormative societies. It was popularized by Adrienne Rich in her 1980 essay titled, Compulsory Heterosexuality and the Lesbian Experience. And basically it's just that like women in every culture are believed to have a preference for men, both in romantic and sexual relationships. And that it's not always natural, but it's um like it is societally ingrained and like scripted into people. um And in a way, when we talk about, because I talk about it a lot in my own work as compulsory able-bodiedness, which is like the like performance of being able-bodied, even if you are disabled, because otherwise you are seen as like morally failing to society. And you are like outcasted. And so compulsory heterosexuality, compulsory able-bodiedness is developed from combat. And this is, you know, something that Shane is definitely experiencing in this episode is, this like need to perform as heterosexual even though he is not exactly and we see him also having this similar reaction to his autism we see a lot of masking all the time yeah i love this interaction because because these are the people that know him for the best right and even
01:04:27
Speaker
Even with them, there is this miscommunication happening because we had we had a script and we're following that script, but that script does not reflect reflect reality and we're getting frustrated because of that.
01:04:42
Speaker
Right, exactly. And I think that leads us really well into our next section where we are talking about Shane, meaning Rose Landry. Yeah. And Lau, this is a great time for you to talk about your favorite character, JJ. Dude, tell me about this. Lau, wait, do you like JJ?
01:05:02
Speaker
That's crazy, Lau. I never knew you liked JJ. The bling imagery. had no idea. IT Sherry! So, JJ invites Shane to his friend's restaurant and i wanted to, like, in my notes I just put in like giant handwriting like I need to talk about JJ and I need to talk about the music of this place. So, JJ, we hear him on the phone. And he does, like, knowing that Benjamin Roy is not from Haiti or doesn't have family from Haiti, I just want to highlight the way that he still does stuff with his accent and with French, like, francophone words that could also be Creole worlds words, and he pronounced it in a Creole way. So the name of the restaurant is Le Tambour, the drum. Or, no, Le Tambour, oui.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yes, in French. because But he says, la umbu so he he doesn't pronounce the R. That's a very Creole way of of of doing that. And then when Shane shows up at this restaurant, he tells everyone, like, Shane never comes out. He's always at home.
01:06:14
Speaker
It's a miracle. So he is not saying it's a miracle like in French, but saying or or in English, miracle. But it's a miracle. Very queolophonized in his accent. So for me, I was very happy. I was shocked when I discovered that he was not from Haitian roots.
01:06:33
Speaker
And very quickly, I just wanted to point out, like for me, the fact that ah we get a ah a character from Haitian descent in Canada is very important. Quebec, it's one of the places that has like a big, big Haitian community and most of them emigrated to Quebec from Haiti during the dictatorship of Duvalier or Papadoc and even during the dictatorship of Papadoc's son because they, they they like Papadoc died being a dictator and his son just like took his place. So a lot of Haitian writers, musicians, actors that are very famous, one of them, Daniela Ferrière, they lived in exile in Quebec. So i always want to I always like to highlight that because when people think about the Haitian diaspora, they usually think
01:07:29
Speaker
Miami. They usually think Florida. maybe Maybe Massachusetts and Texas as well, but a lot of these people went to Canada to to look for asylum during the dictatorship. So that is something we don't see as much in media. And I loved, like for me, as soon as I saw that, like as soon as JJ appears and has that accent, I was like,
01:07:54
Speaker
haitian character i know you, I recognize you. So i really I really appreciate it. And so when when we get to this bar, to this restaurant, i was keeping my ears open and my eyes open to everything. Every single thing that I could clock as Haitian. And the music is constantly like there's music in in English with Creole words and the rhythms are very like like ah a mix, a fusion between a lot of like partying music from the from North America and Europe mixed with a lot of Caribbean, especially Haitian rhythms. So I was really happy to See that we we weren't losing that in in the show. Because in the book, it's it's super clear that he's Haitian. like Shane talks about that. yeah Shane even talks about the accent and the language. And I was afraid that we were gonna just like make this character be... fully francophone and never hint at Creole at all. So when when when i see when I heard this music and when I heard this like Tombou Mirac, I felt very happy. And and and and the reason why I'm so obsessed with this is because we we tend to whitewash people
01:09:17
Speaker
Haitian identities and we forget that French is not a language that is spoken by most Haitians. Like a lot of the diaspora speaks Creole and English, not French. ah french ah French is the language of a minority elite in Haiti and is still imposed in education in a way that is ah very damaging to alphabetization programs projects. So I...
01:09:45
Speaker
Creole is so stigmatized that every single time I see it represented positively in a nice way, in a beautiful way, i feel very, very moved by it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, i love I love this scene. I think it gives us a lot of background on JJ. It reminds me a lot of, like...
01:10:03
Speaker
just going out to like industry, like dinners and stuff like that I've been like invited to, or I've gone out with friends. Like it feels very much like, like it feels like after hours at a bar when all the bartenders show up after their shifts. Like that's the kind of vibe that this gives. And so I think it's like a very cool, interesting, like artsy vibe. We get this little bartender who in the book flirts with Shane a lot more, but here I think it's a little toned down. Absolutely. But it's definitely a little flirty flirty. Which also a reminder that Shane does sleep with two other people than Ilya. And I think they both kind of occur during this time when they're broken up. And Shane brings breaks his not during the season rule twice. Because we see earlier in the episode, when he was with his family, he doesn't have wine because he's like not during the season. This is one of those instances where he does break his not during the season.
01:10:55
Speaker
rule, which is Shane and rules. We know him him and rules are like this, you know, like they're tight. And so for him to break it, I'm like, huh, that tells me that he's got a lot going on inside. You know, we get Rose talking about her brothers and growing up in Michigan. So she does say like two very specific hockey things that I wanted to cover. One, she says like one of her brothers went to the Frozen Four and the NCAA. That is like the big that's like the Stanley Cup for the NCAA for hockey and then the other thing she says is that one of her brothers is undrafted but he's in the AHL so in the AHL there are players who are not like a lot of times players are on a two-way contract meaning they move between the AHL the American Hockey League and the NHL because the AHL is right underneath the and NHL and so a lot of times you'll see this in like
01:11:47
Speaker
call-ups when and NHL players get injured, they call people up from the AHL team. But when she says that her brother is undrafted, it means that he didn't ever go through the and NHL draft. So he probably like went to college and then was like a amateur tryout for the team.
01:12:05
Speaker
Amateur tryouts aren't very um common. They usually at most are for goalies. So maybe her brother's a goalie, but it's Those are the two kind of things that Rose is specifically talking about when she talks about hockey with Shane. But she is like, I've said this, like she is like the perfect, like the dream girl for Shane. Like if only Shane were bi or straight or whatever. like She is like his type to 100%. She could talk hockey. She's like, you know, mild mannered. Like she's not I mean, she is like we see her out dancing and clubbing and stuff. But she's like, it doesn't really seem like that's what she wants to do all of the time. Like she's totally comfortable with just like sitting and hanging out. So like she very much is, you know, somebody who would be perfect for Shane if he weren't. And that's something I like. I love that they do have chemistry, that they do like each other. That is not one of, like it's not the cliche of just the first woman that crossed my path and I'm just trying to like you. Yeah. They yeah they do connect. They're soulmates in many ways, which fascinating.
01:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, and I love when we get good friendships in shows, especially in romance. You need good friends. So I was super happy with Rose because we're not supposed to hate her. where like it's It's like with Svetlana. There are like this...
01:13:29
Speaker
wholesome, beautiful, super smart character that is there to help us in this journey and not as like this silly obstacle to create like cliffhangers. Yeah, and as we said in our last episode as well, the women, I feel like, I think someone's, either Jacob Tooney or someone else related to the show, I was talking about the women and it's like they're never, or I think they were talking about why female Femmes and women are attracted to the show it's because women are never portrayed as doing anything wrong the women are portrayed in such like fantastic amazing way and they're such support roles but also they're super intelligent and so kind and loving that it's so this is part of I think why the show is so compelling and so addicting is because of characters like Rose Landry as we've said before and as I'm sure we'll talk about again but the way that she is so kind and compassionate and never has had a single thing wrong in her entire life except maybe not getting spit Lana's number she deserves the world
01:14:24
Speaker
No, I mean, Svetlana, bang my line. Rose, bang my line. Yes. Even if they're not meant to be together, they have chemistry and their conversations are really cool. like We don't get a bored Shane. like Shane is interested in Rose. like he He's not pretending. He's very genuine. And it's they get really deep into getting to know each other so quick. it's It's like a spark. And while it doesn't pan out to be romantic, it's still this spark that I think is really important to Shane and highlights to him how he can have relationships with other people. that aren't specifically his family or specifically Ilya. And they're breaking their diet together. Yeah, they break their diets together. I don't think Shane actually eats fries because Hudson hates fries. But anyways. But they look so fire, especially with that aioli sauce. Who hates fries? Hudson hates fries. He said in his um in his like little cunty photo shoot interview that he did with Sophie, where Sophie interviewed him, he was like, no, I hate fries. Wow.
01:15:16
Speaker
He couldn't be perfect. anyway I also think like this goes to show, you know, when they're like, oh, Shane's not really talkative in the first episode. And we were like, no, Shane actually talks to people. He just talks to people that he's interested in talking to. He just does not do well with small talk. Like this, like definitely shows that like even to a point where he's like, are you going to be in Montreal for a while? Like he asks her out. Like.
01:15:38
Speaker
He like takes that initiative himself. And so that's why when people are like, oh, Shane's like stupid or whatever, I'm like, no, he's not. He just has a lot of emotions and he doesn't know what to and a lot of anxiety and he doesn't know what to do with all of it all the time. We get another comment question about race from Rose here. So this is the second time Riz has been brought up in this episode. She asks him if it was hard being the only Asian kid in like, like growing up in like the the hockey circles where he was. And he actually says, i wasn't the only one. There was another kid and he hated me because my name sounded very white and Western and he had a creation name. So he was being picked up on way more than I was. So we couldn't even be allies in this situation. were we were like,
01:16:34
Speaker
made enemies by the situation. Right. And he like, and Rose makes a comment. She's like, well, it doesn't help that you were like really good. But like, I, that wouldn't have stopped the racism. Like Shane definitely experienced it. I've been thinking about this a lot. And I've been thinking about like how Shane responds to like people around him and how he responds to like what people are saying. And like, we were, i mean, when we were talking about it earlier in this episode that like, shane is constantly trying to see if there is like a secondary connotation to the words that people are saying and so i absolutely think that shane would be like clocking the racism every time and that's why i also still think that this is like a disingenuous, like, representation of race. Like, and I was reading a couple of threads the other day and it was like, well, like, we, like, we, when we talk about race and, like, characters not showing, like, or characters, like,
01:17:38
Speaker
discussions about race not happening about characters of color it's because like we don't want to see like racism like them be victims of racism all of the time in these shows and it's like that's true like i don't think we only should be talking about shane's race in relation to racism i think like It is a huge factor of this story and of the like life that Shane lives is like the amount of racism that he would encounter. However, I think like we don't even get talking about Shane's race in any other way. like It is always viewed as a microaggression in some way, shape, or form. And so i think that's something I would love for Rachel Reed to get consultants on and expand upon in Unrivaled. and I would love to see them like be consulted on and expand upon in the second season. But, you know, like, I don't think we should just be looking for. Shane to experience race through racism. I think we need to experience it in in other ways as well. Because then like we learn so much about other cultures and other people through television. Like television was one of our greatest educators.
01:18:48
Speaker
About what you were saying, like we we want to see Shane's race beyond racism. That's why I was saying a few episodes ago, like, okay, I want to know more about is Japanese spoken in this home? What is Yuna's like history of like immigration? Is there something Japanese steal at their like daily lives? Because I was just praising the representation of Haitian Creole and JJ's background and JJ is like a secondary character so why can't we have that with Shane and I I don't want to go like on huge tangents on other shows Bridgerton season four is doing such a good job with the way Asian women women are represented like we have a main character love interest that speaks like she's praised because she she speaks many languages and in that praise that she's receiving korean and latin are put in the same level for example we get evil asian woman played by the amazing katie leung who uh please can we free from the harry potter history shackles thank you Yes, I saw that i was so angry. We get the funny one, we get the envious one, we get such a varied representation of languages, of dialects, of fashion. And that's what I want to see. i want to see Shane as this complex character. And I want to see like people who come from different backgrounds and heritage. and ah that are mixed race to be represented in their whole being. So race is not only a matter of racism and discrimination. I think it's very important to point out to those issues. Yes. But what else happens with his Ancestry is just like the focus and of violence is just is that all we get? So I fully agree with you, Lauren. I think we need more about what this identity entails for the character.
01:20:56
Speaker
right for sure yeah i mean like even him noting like that he has a western like even the language of like western last name like ah he's pointing out something very important and then for rose's character to just be like well i'm sure it also didn't help that you were like the best on the ice like you even see shane's face kind of be like oh like she's playing against like that model minority right right exactly right and so like that is something that i think definitely should be explored in the next season yeah also speaking of what rose says she goes your winter doesn't scare me and i wrote uh okay but i'm scared of winter please what the fuck is this because the feels like was in the 30s in a place where the lows should only be in the just throwing it out there literally and what The fact that there was frost on my old campus in Central Florida and I'm like, oh
Trans Athletes and Representation
01:21:50
Speaker
dear God. No, no, no. The way I opened Instagram this morning and one of the like national newspapers was covering the fact that we in Colombia, in the tropics, are getting ah
01:22:03
Speaker
Polar front and that's why Bogota is freezing right now and we're getting so much rain and I was like who I hate this I hate what we're doing with weather I am scared of winter I agree Amanda we see them talking and as like we zoom out of their conversation at the restaurant these songs are playing and I was talking about this song that is in Creole and English and one of the things that they say in Creole is couche avem that translates like roughly to lay with me like in a sexual way so we are setting this very sexy very sexual connection between these two
01:22:40
Speaker
Even with the music. Yes. We get them playing like a little bit of poker before they leave. But it's really interesting because Shane keeps his cards really close to his chest. Like everybody else is talking and gesturing. And so I think this even still shows that like, like, even though Rose, he's connecting with Rose in ways that he hasn't connected with anybody maybe other than Ilya. He's still hiding parts of himself. He's still keeping his cards close to his chest. And so I think that leads us really into next when we're talking about the Boston Raiders gym where Ilya gets, finds out! Ilya finds out.
01:23:15
Speaker
Also Boston Raiders gym, that's some Pokemon type shit. Just saying. No, literally. We get our ah first sighting of actor Harrison Brown, who if is on the bikes next to Raw's. um Not Ross, just kidding. Is on the bikes next to Marlowe. Harrison Brown is a transgender athlete. Grew up playing in the U.S. Women's Hockey League and actually retired from the league because taking testosterone hormones would register as a performance enhancement
01:23:47
Speaker
drug when they were drug tested for the team. And so Harrison actually stopped playing hockey in order to transition. And it also brings up conversations that are currently happening. USA Hockey just released new guidelines on trans players in sport in hockey and basically disallows anyone of genders that were not assigned at birth, that are not correlated to their sex, quote unquote, their biological sex, from playing hockey at any level in hockey. And also currently, I think it's just Matthew Kachuk of the Florida Panthers. He sits on Donald Trump's advisory board on women in sports. There's no women on the advisory board, by the way. And it's literally a way to keep trans women out of sports. So that's fun. But anyways, we get Harrison on our screen, which is great because we love trans representation.
01:24:40
Speaker
He has been so outspoken about all these issues in U.S. hockey. We love him for that, and we sent him all our support because it's not an easy battle. Yeah, especially since there's, like, i don't know, two transgender athletes in, like, every state that are competing at, like, high enough levels. Like, you guys are literally making mountains out of molehills. Shut the fuck up. Let people play sports. Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:03
Speaker
And thank you. And thank God. One of the tweets in this little, first of all, the entertainment talk, entertain entertainment tonight person who is talking about Shane and Rose being together is a tall drink of water. And I would like for him, whoever he is to bang my line. One of the, one of the tweets is from Reed of the Rachel. I was what i like like, Oh,
01:25:33
Speaker
But yeah, we get Ilya's response to all of this. Yeah. Also, I wanted to say when he stubs his toe, that's the fucking worst when you're already pissed off and then like your belt loop catches on some shit and you're... It is generational crash out, I fear. and He bro is like on a crash. We see this reflected in their playing. They play against each other two weeks later in Montreal and Ilya, they're just ignoring each other. they They're both somewhere else. both that that We get that ah framework again of either the podcasters or the announcers or whoever. They're saying that like where was Ilya Rosenhaf and where was Shane Hollander? like Everyone sees it. They're just not there. so Montreal wins, putting Shane up 4-2.
01:26:11
Speaker
two and But also we see Shane reading over his last text with Ilya before the game. He was texting with Rose and she's saying like she's not going to be there. But we see him open up his thread with Ilya and we're like, what is that about? Third big mess right now. Then we get Ilya looking at the mirror being like, o this is so annoying and this hurts so much. And he goes and says like, I need to get laid. And so they got to the club. Yes. Like his roommate is like fully, his roommate is fully settled in for the night. Gonna order something off of room service. And he's like, I need to get laid. And he's like, okay. And he's like, call people. I want to go to a club. Okay, queen. Crash out. Valid, I guess.
01:26:54
Speaker
And then we go
Identity and Attraction Themes
01:26:55
Speaker
to the club. And this scene starts with the song that broke us all. ah i I just, I can't believe, like, i still think about them having that, they were being interviewed with, like, Jacob, and it was, like, Connor and Hudson. And they were like, what song would you use to, like, describe this? And Connor goes, ah you know that song by that Russian girl band, Tatu, all the things she said? And Jacob just, like, gives him, like, the dirtiest fucking look. It's so funny. I don't know.
01:27:23
Speaker
Because this this moment ruined my life. It ruined my life. I'm so upset. Can we briefly give some context on this song? Because I think for my generation, this was like a whole thing. And it's really sad. I love that we chose this song...
01:27:40
Speaker
for the episode it works super well but the story of this song is so disturbing this is like a song by this russian girl group like it's it's it's two two women but i think they started us as as as girls like very super young and with this song they started like being together in the public eye and it was later discovered that it was just for like says for the sales of the song. And ah one of them has been like very outspokenly homophobic. But also, like it's very complex like how we judge their behavior because they were super young and they they were being forced to perform as lesbians. Yes, and this song was and i was directly in the response to ah anti-gay policies in Russia. that they were forced to like respond that way. like It was all of their manager's idea, but like they were there at all. And it was huge, and it's still like a huge cultural referent in a lot of queer circles, but it shows us again how the industry industry sucks. All the things she said, all the things she said. In a way, it I mean, it parallels like Shane and Ilya's own story. Like they are being told that they have to perform as straight, that they have to be called Pat, that in order to respond to the league's homophobia, you know? So it it really, it really like echoes their own story, so much. And it's, and literally, it's not enough. It's not enough. when This is not enough.
01:29:21
Speaker
This plate loops in my head 24 seven. Also, Shane says he needs a beer and that's the second not during the season rule. And Baby Boy's not okay. He's not okay. Also, bisexual lighting. The bisexual lighting? We needed more of the Miles in that situation because Miles is kind of giving like creepy.
01:29:38
Speaker
But he's also like kissing Shane's neck a little bit and I'm like, oh, hello. do we not have consent boundaries, baby? There was a lot of discourse about this. I think it was a weird choice cinema like in the cinematography to have that trio, Rose, Miles and Shane, knowing Shane as we know him. Because if Shane was a different person, maybe this wouldn't be creepy to so many people. Because people tend to be more sensual when they dance and not necessarily like...
01:30:08
Speaker
looking for something else but the fact that we don't get a lot of context on miles and shane's report makes it very difficult to know how to read that dancing so i i completely fully get yeah why people are like this is creepy having read the book i'm more like oh they have a really close report in the book like the shane is comfortable with him he's just freaking out about being with miles yeah not about Miles, like, flirting with him. So then dancing, like, sandwiching Shane wouldn't be as weird as it is in the series. I still write love the, the like like, visually it was so beautiful because the actor who plays Miles, Black Beauty, like, he is so... His face features and the way that plays with the light and the way he leans over to Shane like visually is just like so, so, so pleasant. But I do think we we needed more context for this not to feel...
01:31:10
Speaker
Like yeah it it felt, it it also felt weird, not in like creepy way. Also, it feels creepy, but it feels weird because we don't, we don't know when this happened, you know? Like who is this guy? And yeah suddenly he's all over Shane. Yeah, we didn't get much introduction into him, we don't get more context until until the next episode. I do want to say Rose is not tearing it up and enough, or that they're in general not tearing it up enough. Rose says she wants to dance, but Gurley is just like fun standing. I don't know if they were playing music i don't feel while they were filming, but she's the way they're all like kind of off each other, and I get that it does get very chaotic in the club like that. but Usually sometimes you're like bouncing together at least. Like they could have played some sort of like basic ass something and then done the music over it. I i was just like, you said you want to dance and that is just fun standing. I'm not really having it No, literally.
01:31:59
Speaker
We will not be doing that at the club on Saturday, up by the way. we will be dancing our asses off. Damn right. Damn right. Damn straight. Damn straight. Except we're gay. We see Ilya cloaking Miles. Jean Paul Gaultier shirt where the animal is flayed open because his heart is flayed open. Like, you fucking slut. Thank for giving me that frame because I hate the shirt. ah Oh, yeah I love the shirt. It's Paul Gaultier. It's so good. now I can... But he's, like, literally the cat is flayed Now can read Yeah, now I can read it as a symbol. So it bothers me less. His face acting. I know I say this every single time.
01:32:40
Speaker
Like every single time I open my mouth, I'm like the eyes, the face acting. But he is fully panicking. He's like trapped. He is the cat in his shirt. He is trapped in a cage. Yeah, well, and he knows he recognizes Miles because of course he knows Shane's new crowd. After he found out in the Pokemon gym about Shane's girl, he's gonna you will go down a rabbit hole and look up every single one of these people who was at that party, who were all Rose's friends, who was Shane associating with. So of course he's gonna recognize Miles because Rose obsessed. Right, Rose shows up to Shane's game and Miles is there too, sitting in the box with her. And yeah that's probably circulating on all of the social media. Ilya knows what's up. Ilya knows who that is. I mean, he like apologizes for his stupid friends at the bar, which I love. And then he's like, all right, actually, I'm to be a douchebag now. Give me a shot. Jesus Christ. Basically tongue fucks that girl's ear, which. Yeah. Jesus Christ. And he he's so hot. He's so hot in this scene. Yeah.
01:33:40
Speaker
And then we get this juxtaposition of this... I'm gonna call it a face-off because we started the the episode with a face-off and we're ending it in some sort of face-off. They're looking at each other. Ilia is like fully taunting Shane. Shane is basically crying. And we're mixing that with Rose and Shane at Shane's apartment about to have sex. Shane looks like he's going a war. Before we we dissect this beautiful work of art that is this juxtaposition, can we just take a second to admire Rose's ass? Continuing the great asses in this show. Rose Landry. Absolutely.
01:34:23
Speaker
The ass that you have. yes And the way that she drops the dress. The dropping the dress on the stairs. Oh, I would. i want This is what I was thinking about earlier and with the parallel to the earlier kissing up the stairs. They're not kissing up the stairs. She's trying to give him a show. She's trying to be sexy. She's trying to do all this. And him, if that was me on those stairs. Oh, man. i do not ask me the color of anything.
01:34:44
Speaker
and To be a fly on that wall. I would have done whatever she wanted. ever she wanted if she was like crawl up move up these stairs i would have been like absolutely and i will he has the audacity to look like like sadness he looks to the floor bro my eyes are not on the floor my but i am falling on those stairs because my eyes are on that moon like i am literally like the awooga like big eyes tongue falling out of the mouth like from the cartoons hard eyes i am i'm chasing her up the stairs like Shane Hollander, you did not know how to treat her well. Send her over here. i got it. If we need a confirmation that Shane is gay, oh this is it. Yeah. If he doesn't know, the audience knows. Literally having to imagine Ilya to finish. Ilya jerking off in his shower to finish. Okay, so now we can go yeah we can go there. like We're getting the club, we're getting the music changes to this like slower, less higher-peached version of the song.
01:35:43
Speaker
it's ah It's like a, yeah, it's a remix of. And we're seeing Shane going to war and Ilya at the club. And then Shane is fucking Rose looking to the horizon.
01:35:58
Speaker
And then we get Ilya in the shower grabbing his own ass in a way that is reminiscent of like maybe Shane's hand. And then jerking off looking at the horizon. And they have a face off. This shower, this jerking off, lots of discourse, is it Shane's imagination? is it a parallel that is actually happening?
01:36:21
Speaker
You have no idea the amount of threads I have read on this matter. Yeah, same. I'm definitely in the, it's like, cause it's Shane's shower, right?
01:36:32
Speaker
Like, because they have sex in that same shower earlier on in the episode. And so I'm assuming. Yeah, because they had kissed their way up the stairs. Yeah, I'm assuming it's Shane's place. And so I'm assuming it's Shane's shower and it's either he's remembering Ilya in his shower at some point, or he is like conjuring Ilya in his mind so that he can finish. So I like that, and I also love the idea that Ilya went to the hotel and checked off. You know, like... Also, that too. I think both can be true. I think both add so much the narrative. And we fade to black, and the last thing we hear is Shane moaning, which I think is criminal. Like, that broke. Truly. This scene, I feel like I'm almost caught in the middle of it at the end. Like, they're both looking at me... because they're looking at the camera. And like, out of this gay bullshit. Okay? I know what I'm doing. I know how to communicate with other people. Okay? Keep me out of your bullshit. I don't want to be here. And you guys have just talked to one another.
Queer Representation in Media
01:37:35
Speaker
you make a podcast about it? Yeah. No, that's true.
01:37:38
Speaker
Keep me on this gay bullshit. Yeah. And that is, that is the end of Rose. I like immediately had to rewatch this episode as soon as it came out because I was like, I'm not okay.
01:37:51
Speaker
Emotionally. Every time I watch it now, I have to immediately watch five and six right after it because I'm like so emotionally not okay from it. And it's Yeah, that's what I did even today. Oh yeah, I was in such a bad mood after I rewatched this during the weekend. I was just like, I hate life. I i don't want this. But I didn't have the time to go back, like to continue and watch Five and Six. So I just had to like to navigate this horrible feeling that it leaves me with.
01:38:21
Speaker
Yes. Awful, awful, awful. Alright, so our fan mail for this week is not an audiophile, but I think it is a really big conversation that we've been having a lot in this fandom, especially when we are talking about a fandom that is mostly dominated by heterosexual and or gay women. and how they or how they are treating gay men, both as subject matter, but then also as men out in the wild. And so this is from a fan of ours. This is a TikTok that is a bunch of edits of Shane and Yuna together, but it mostly focuses on Shane coming out. But it also does have like some of the moments that we talked about in this scene where like Shane and his parents are talking about the Rolex booths. at Wimbledon. So these are what the comments said.
01:39:13
Speaker
All right. So the first person is responding to Shane and Yuna in this episode where Shane is talking about like trying he's like having a conversation with his parents about not wanting to go to the rolex booth and the person the first poster so poster a says as someone who is gay and struggling with my sexuality this is one of the best depictions of being someone who struggles with coming out or with their sexuality i literally sat there and sobbed at this scene wishing i could come out to my parents and it would be this good right so that's the original poster A poster responds to them and says, i am sending good vibes your way. It's hurtful when the people who are supposed to love you unconditionally don't. I don't know your situation, but I do know that your people are out there. Your community is waiting whenever you are ready.
01:40:02
Speaker
The OP then responds and says, thank you so much. That means a lot. It made me tear up. Somebody replies to it and says, i hope you can come to terms with your sexuality. Please don't date any women without telling them your true intentions and attraction. You could really hurt someone trying to be straight. And so what our fan is saying is that they feel like flabbergasted at how someone could watch the show, see how hard it was for Shane to talk to his mom and about how anxious and panicked he was in this scene, see the person relating to that and feel sorrow that their own parents would not react as well as Yuna did, and then turn around and make it about straight women and how in their eyes this person has the capacity to cause harm because they are gay. Right. So, yeah, I think this is something that we've been i don't want to necessarily say it's misogyny.
01:40:54
Speaker
i I don't know how to kind of like think about that. i I know how to think about it, obviously, because I am talking about it right now on a podcast. I have been seeing a lot of things where gay men, like I saw a thread of like a gay man who went to a viewing party at a heated rivalry bar. He walked in and it was mostly straight women. And because he was like alone and kind of sitting in the back corner. a bunch of straight women like approached him and basically kicked him out of the bar during this viewing party. I know like on my experience, I went to a heated rivalry rave a couple of weeks ago. And even though the organizers were all queer, all of the people working it were queer, a lot of us helping set up were queer. And yes, a large portion of us were queer who attended. There were still an insane amount of straight people there who were kind of like occupying the space And being like pretty gross and fetishy about the men in the show. And also there were straight men there, which we don't want to talk about. I've also seen instances where like queer athletes have come out and been like, I really relate to the skated rivalry. You know, this is my experience and fans of the show. have like shut them down told them that their experiences are invalid and just generally have like a lot of hatred and mistrust of the gay community and I think I don't understand like how you can watch this show and then immediately turn around and be homophobic or just think that this show is made for you because it's a based off of a romance novel and romance novels have historically catered to women this story is a queer story like we are queer podcasters talking about this show queer queer people should be the center of these conversations that you're having about this show. And you should not be invalidating their experiences in order for you to talk about like protecting straight women. Like that is not the purpose of this show. And it is like, honestly, so gross and kind of disgusting that like you would put like
01:42:59
Speaker
that's above like a queer person's like feelings and experiences and everything and I think this like this like comes across in the fandom in so many other ways like I know in Chicago a lot of the other heated rivalry raves that are happening are straight run and it feels like straight people are capitalizing off of queer love I mean they literally are capitalizing off of queer love it's not feels like And so I think straight people need to reassess where they come into like viewing and understanding the story because the story isn't about you. Like you should not be centering yourself in these discussions and you shouldn't be centering your thoughts or your feelings in any way, shape or form. And so that's kind of my thoughts on this, but I would love to hear what Amanda and Lau have to say. to me, I really hope that we could learn to approach someone else's pain with compassion. This is the first thing that comes to mind. This person is expressing the fact that they don't have what Shane has in his family and that they are not so privileged as to get good and positive response to a coming out. And this other stranger in the internet is just using that moment of someone being very, very vulnerable and sharing very deep and awful pain that a lot of people are experiencing right now in the world to recenter it
01:44:22
Speaker
into like closeted gay men are misogynists and this is a conversation that I've had so many times with people around me that I care about a lot that I respect but there's like you know I am very like I can joke a lot about like oh man you But I am very careful about how I talk about gender and how I generalize the behaviors of people. Like one thing is like I acknowledge the patriarchy and I acknowledge gender norms and all that. And I acknowledge the privilege of sexuality.
01:44:54
Speaker
like people that are not queer and people that are like red as male in our society but I tend to be very careful because first of all as a bisexual woman who's married to a cisgender man I am usually read as straight, so I understand that many, many times where like the whole no straight people at gay parades, I'm like, you have no idea what the orientation of this person is. like You can tell by looking at So first of all, second of all, I think like I understand that a lot of men hurt women and that gay men are not necessarily the exception. Yes, we have a lot of misogyny in the gay community. That is true in like a statistic level, in a like historic level. That doesn't mean that you get to judge a stranger in the internet and assume that because they're a gay man, they will be misogynistic, first of all.
01:45:57
Speaker
And I was saying, like, I've i've had this conversation with a lot of cis people specifically. I remember having this discussion with some friends that I i love dearly. This is no shade to them. We're all learning. But they were saying, like, every single... Like, they said something around the lines, like, misogynistic men are actually closeted gay men. And I was like, we really need to be careful about And then they were like, no, that came out wrong. That's like, I wasn't saying that all of them, just these two people that we were talking about. And I was like, we really need to be careful about the way that we put people into labels and cages. Because the whole queer movement is against that. It's against assuming that everyone behaves in a single monolithic way because of who they are, right? And people experience very different ways. So this person has no idea. No fucking idea who this gay man is, besides the fact that he is in the closet with his family and that he is gay. This person has no idea if the gay man in question is living in a situation where coming out is dangerous, right? So, listen, in an ideal world where homophobia, transphobia is not a thing, where being queer is not a death sentence in many parts of the world, where this is not a danger to your person or in like less difficult situations, your career, your economical security, the only thing standing between your support network and being completely alone.
01:47:40
Speaker
When that is the reality, of course, you're going to have men doing what Shane is doing, trying, as in the in the words of this person, trying to be gay. That is going to hurt people. I know I know women that have been hurt by dating someone who knew he was gay and he didn't say because he was trying to be straight because that is what he thought he had to do and I am completely in favor of we should be honest in our relationships we shouldn't be using people in relationships we should be like very mindful and careful of other people's emotions and vulnerabilities But I also know that society is so fucked up that we have a like system um problem that should not be always like put on the shoulders of the minorities that are being like pushed back into the closet every single time. So to me, it's like, i'm I'm really sorry if you experienced this. I'm really sorry if someone hurt you in this way. I hope you can heal from it. And I hope you can understand this has nothing to do with your value as a person.
01:48:52
Speaker
Because I understand that it can cause like a lot of questions about how attractive you are. I like a lot of women are like, am I too masculine or something? Or what was it about me that made me like the target of this? But I also hope that you can approach strangers in the internet with compassion. You have no idea who they are and how their lives are. And assuming stuff based on your personal experience is super hurtful. And I agree with our fan here saying like, How can you go from watching Youna's reaction to Shane, Ro's reaction to Shane, and then telling this stranger this in this situation? Right, right, exactly. Yeah, that's a great segue into, have a few points here that I want to make regarding this, both in my personal life and relating to hit a rivalry. So first of all, relating to this internet exchange that happens. part i think is very sweet and is very wholesome because i think the queer community is rooted in community and in this shared love and respect for one another and i think that is the important foundation that we need to stand on and we have these discourses and this historical discourse within these marginalized communities that i think is very nuanced and is to be recognized so i think this the first part of this is very sweet in the like oh queer person queer person like you know the queer community is here for you when you are ready. But this last person that's like being weird about it, I think it's parasocial. I think it's projecting. And I think that this has been a common theme with that we've mentioned before on our podcast about people who have certain experiences that are projecting onto some of the problems of the show. And it Sometimes I think it's okay to project and to see yourself recognized in these stories. I know I've mentioned it before. feel bit seen by some of the stuff that happens between Shane and Ilya. But I don't think that means you get to project your trauma onto them and then apply it to other people, if that makes sense. Like you don't get to, that's what I'm getting out of this situation. And identity is so nuanced. There's a couple of things within this I want to say. There are things like beards and lavender marriages where people who cannot be themselves do quote unquote pretend to be straight in order to have a life and identity and a culture outside of what they're allowed to do. You know, and I think that this was very present and very common in the late 20th century in the US, but I believe it to still be happening in other places worldwide. mean, we get other movies about that. They're slipping my mind. watched them in undergrad. That's such a shame. need to look them up. But there are stories that like books and movies that we see this of people who have these second lives and and I mean we see this in heated rivalry in in in a bit like in in a sense of like it's assumed that Ilya is straight it's assumed that Shane is straight and of course they have this secret life and so to say like I don't even know if I think This is Shane trying to figure out that he is gay and he is straight. I think this is him figuring out he's not straight. So he's not pretending to be straight. I think he somewhat believes he could be, or maybe he's in that stage of figuring out that he might be bi or he might be whatever, but he is trying.
01:51:57
Speaker
And for him,
Preserving Queer Spaces
01:51:58
Speaker
and he he does like Rose, like I said earlier, he has that spark. And for him, he thinks that means sexual attraction, but this is him realizing that he doesn't. Another point that I wanna make about nuanced identities. Again, not while not everyone can afford to present certain sides of themselves, I have a friend in my life right now She is queer and she has a boyfriend. She is by um but she was lamenting to me that she cannot date a woman because her family, because it just would not be fair to the other person. People who want to both have close relationships with their families and also don't want to put that kind of pressure on a non-hetero partner.
01:52:33
Speaker
You know what i mean? like' There's kind of that unfair balance there. And so she was telling me that she loves women and whatever, but she will mainly date men and bring them to her family and not publicly date women, if that makes sense. And then the last point that I want to make that we touched on earlier in this is about straight people taking up queer spaces. This has been such a thing that in like 2024, that was such a present part of my life where I had a man, cishet man in my life. He had many other problems that I will not get into on this platform. But one of them is that he would go to girls nights
01:53:06
Speaker
At the gay club, Saturday night, Suffolk Saturday, he would go there and he would try to make out with women. And sure, sometimes he would like try to connect women with other women, like, oh, go make out with my friend, whatever. But like the the performers that were there on stage at that club would say, like if you're not straight, get to the back. like I want my girlies and theys and the girls, the gays all up front. I want them up front. And men would get pushed to the back because it is girls night, boys night and guys night is on Friday.
01:53:32
Speaker
Like go on a Friday and cishet man, mind you. And he would complain that he would get pushed to the back. And I had multiple times over the course of our friendship, which we're no longer friends. i told him, you are in a queer space. You can go to every other single bar in Central Florida and have a good old time. Like you can hang out whoever you can not get looked at a second chance, whatever you can be, whoever you are, wherever you want.
01:53:53
Speaker
This is the only place I get to be myself. This is the only place I get to go do what I want. And it's not assumed that everyone is straight. And I would get given these arguments with him that he would refuse to understand as a man. And I think that that there is something to be said about people who Yes, you can find safety and sanctity in queer spaces, but you have to understand and recognize that we are uno oppressed people and there are only specific spaces, even in a country, quote unquote, as free as this place. I mean, look at Stonewall, but a place as quote unquote free as the US where we have the ability to express ourselves. Like if you try to take up space there, bro, let us get to the front of the stage. when I was living in Florida like I would walk down the street and get hate crimed like daily like because of how I looked like trans people and queer people are still murdered at insanely high rates in the United States like there has already been there is a huge push right now for like like what is it fucking conversion therapy and going back to the church and like
01:54:53
Speaker
people still eating fucking chick-fil-a stop giving chick-fil-a your goddamn money if you're trying to be an ally do not eat homophobia chicken they are literally paying to kill gay people like and if you don't understand that you have no right to speak on what gay people should or should not do with their lives Yeah, and this is what I mean when I say like, in an ideal society, yes, we can have the conversation about whether it is morally correct or not to date a straight woman if you suspect you might be gay. Okay. But we're not in an ideal society by far. We're not even in your something. I know I've heard so many CZ people say that they don't understand why we complain so much if we have rights and stuff like that. I don't think they understand the amount of stuff that are not okay. the amount of fighting and dying that like queer people had to do and still have to do like and still have to do only today i saw that rafiki that is a move a kenyan movie made like 10 years ago that was one the ones i was talking about now allowed again in kenya you know like For fuck's sake. And also, to Amanda's point, it's not like, yes, we are born this way. That doesn't mean that we come with the manual as we come into this world and we arrive into this world and we know who we are. We discover our identities and society makes it so fucking difficult. Like the way that, like how long it took me to come to terms with my sexuality, because bisexuality and pansexuality was not in my vocabulary. I didn't have the words to call myself. I knew like my family was like, super open to homosexuality, you know? We had gay people come to our house. But in my mind, you could be either or, you know, you could not be something in your brain that was always a phase, that was always synonym of promiscuity.
01:57:10
Speaker
So when you don't have the vocabulary, when you don't have the words to call yourself, when you don't have a reference of someone who's like you, it's very confusing. It's so confusing when Everyone is telling you that you are one way and you feel that maybe not. So that is why you see people coming out as adults. That is why you see trans people transitioning as adults. That you see people divorcing their partners because they thought they were straight or they thought they didn't have another option. and finally living their truth, as we like to say. It is a journey. It is a journey that is different for everyone.
Identity, Sexuality, and Empathy
01:57:51
Speaker
There is not a single timeline for coming out because not everyone has the same space to do it, nor the same knowledge to do the whole, like, the programming that you have to do because we are conditioned to be straight and to be cis since our birth. Like my nephew is 13 and since he was a baby people were talking about his future girlfriends. you know yeah where's your girlfriend exactly your girlfriend oh you're friends with girl that's your girlfriend deprogramming yourself from that takes work it's painful you're scared yes you you don't know who you are you try out labels you try out things you expose yourself to a lot of experiences so blaming someone from for doing what shane does with rose man
01:58:43
Speaker
it's so, so difficult to figure out that you're gay or that you're queer in any way or form, even if you're like Canadian, you know? like Right.
01:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, I knew so many people in high school like that just wanted, or even I knew people in adulthood. like I have friends in adulthood who are like, let me just give it a shot and see if I like it. like They get the confidence. And now that we kind of have a society, like more or less, I feel like we have a more... It's definitely not the 2000s when gay was a slur or like gay was like used, whatever. But I feel like people have the ability to to say, like I'm going to try it just to make sure. And like that's what Shane is doing here. And also, I wanted to mention, when you were saying that something about rights being taken away or like that we have rights, after Trump got elected for his second term last year, they immediately started having talks about the what we were talking about in this episode about Marriage equality. Supreme Court that allowed marriage equality, they're trying to turn it over like they did Roe v Wade. they were It was a similar path that they were trying to take, which I don't think is happening. No, it's a part of Project 2025. It's a part of Project 2025 and Project 2025. Yeah. And so I know people that are getting married now before all that happened, so that way they can hopefully still be legally married and attain those tax benefits and those rights and that equality after and hope that it doesn't disbar any marriage from before. And also I wanted to throw out there, these are very, like some of these ideas of identity and sexuality and all of this is very Western and very kind of colonialized. i
02:00:11
Speaker
There are some people out there, especially some, seems like some of these people in these TikTok comments that need to decolonize their understanding of identity and understand that these are very Western concepts, especially like, like what Laura you were talking about of either straight or gay and not in between, like, especially about gender. Like we're going to have a queer episode where I'm going to get, I'm going to, I'm to dig so far deep into this because this is such a passion of mine. And for you to say like, don't pretend to be straight. Like I will fight you so hard on that. will fight you so hard on that. So, but these are just very Western concepts. And I, I would like people to keep that in mind when engaging with people from across the world, from different cultures. And I think that ends my rant.
02:00:51
Speaker
I think it's just about the internet is it's one of the worst places in the world. First of all, we were never supposed to know like this much about people ever. Like the fact that I can know something about somebody like across the world is both amazing and also terrifying. Like, and it is just like,
02:01:12
Speaker
ah The fact that it has turned into this like toxic cesspool of disgustingness, it like, like it just is so, and it's, I mean, it's ah in some ways always been like that, like for sure. But like, just have a little more fucking empathy for people? i don't like that is the only way that we're gonna win.
02:01:34
Speaker
Like, I don't know when you it's like talking about the grasshoppers and the ants and bugs life. Like when the ants all realize that they have power and they have empathy with each other and there are more of them than there are grasshoppers. That's when all the good shit happens in the bugs life, right? When we take over the grasshoppers at the end. Okay, we need to do that more. You need to like learn how to have empathy for your fellow humans. And like, or people or whatever term you want to use.
02:02:01
Speaker
And like, that is very much like listening when people who have these other identities, when people are, you know, black, brown, indigenous, they're queer, when they are disabled, like listening to their experiences and understanding how those experiences have shaped their lives and how are shaped by these oppressive systems And learning to like let go of your like white fragility and like your whiteness and like standing up for people and having empathy for people, it's not that fucking hard. Like I'm constantly in shock and the amount of people that I interact with on the internet who are just like, I think this black person who's talking about race is wrong.
02:02:47
Speaker
And it's like, no, you don't get to say that. You don't get to say that as a white person. That is not your call to make. Just like it is not your call to make as a straight woman on whether or not a queer person lives their lives in a certain way. That is not your call. And that's all going Just remember, you don't know the person, the people that you're talking to in the internet. You don't know who this stranger is. So there's a lot you don't know. Don't assume. Remember what Ted Lasso taught us. Be curious, not judgmental. i was going to say assumptions. They make an ass out of you and me.
02:03:18
Speaker
Also that. Exactly. Yes. I love that one. Well, thank you so much to our fan for that lovely piece of fan mail. If you're ever looking to send in fan mail, we accept it on any of our social media platforms, including Twitter slash X, threads, and Instagram. You also can send it to our email, which is srspod at protonmail.com. We will accept text. We'll accept voice memos, whatever you want to send. We're happy to listen to you ah be whatever you want to be on the mic. Except for racist, sexist, homophobic.
02:03:53
Speaker
Exactly. Any of those. We do not stand for that. Don't send me that shit. I will report you. To God. We are the... To God. Right. I'm going to report you to Zoran Babdami.
02:04:08
Speaker
He's a heated rivalry fan, I'm saying. He's a heated rivalry fan. My king. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Since Rookie Season Podcast. A little note we want to throw on here at the end is that we will be taking a break next week because all of us have jobs. Some of us are unpaid. Some of us are working very, very hard. All of us are working very, very hard on the things that we do. And so we'll be taking an intimate of a break before we are so excited to jump back into Florida. Hell yeah, that's right. We're going to meet, baby. Well, I don't live in Tampa, but... You're coming to me in like lauren This is really funny timing, actually, because after write a few days after recording this, I'm visiting Lauren, and then like a month after this comes out, Lauren will be visiting me in Florida. so
02:04:51
Speaker
ah We're just all going to Florida. bo ah we ah We're trying to get loud to come to Florida, too. much I love you guys, but I don't think I want to go to Florida right now. No, and you're real for that.
02:05:04
Speaker
But we can be gay on the beach. Yeah, going to go be gay on the beach. I mean, I'm just gay wherever I'm at, but we're going to go be gay on the beach. um Yeah, so thanks so much for listening to ah Since Rookie Season Pod. We'll see you all in two weeks, and bye, loonies!
02:05:21
Speaker
Since Rookie Season is created by Lauren, Lau, and Amanda. The cover art is by Lauren and Lau, and Amanda is our editor. Thanks for listening!