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"I'll Believe in Anything:" Let the Sunshine In... We Deserve It
344 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, we break down Rose's breakup with Shane, the MESS that is Tampa, Ilya's trip for the funeral, Shane high out of his mind, and the Earth-shattering Skip kiss. Also, Amanda has a VERY interesting tale from the JOURNEY that was Florida to Chicago. Thanks for listening!
Sources & References:
Our Anecdotes:
'Garden Of' Events in Chicago, IL
Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid (Book Amanda mentioned)
Pop Culture & HudCon Stories:
What Chaos Response to Olympics
Daddy Hockey Guide (must have AO3 account)
Russian Rye Bread & Vodka For The Dead
Connor Storrie Russian Grandma Story
Dapper dudes: Young men’s fashion consumption and expressions of masculinity
Getting beyond the fear of queer: The transition from gender-specific fashion to inclusive style
The black suit epidemic: why is men’s red carpet fashion so boring?
Scholarly References & Resources:
LatAm Autonomy Over Coming Out
University of Iowa Fandom Zine Library
Early Fan Studies "Enterprising Women"
More Than an Athlete: Olympians on Mental Health, Pressure, and Finding Balance
Speaking a different language can change how you act and feel
Concussion Protocol (Fic Amanda recommended)
The Second Shift (Home Labor & Gender)
Follow us on our socials!
Twitter: @srspod
Threads & Instagram: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Since Rookie Season'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Since Rookie Season. Well, the summer before. a heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from the Crave Canada television series, the Game Changers novels, and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon.
Discussion on Episode 5: 'I'll Believe in Anything'
00:00:17
Speaker
Okay, so today we're looking into episode five, I'll Believe in Anything. So stay with us. As we go to Tampa, we get vulnerable and see the best public kiss in the universe.
00:00:36
Speaker
All right, welcome back. As a reminder, which, you know, I've said only a million times, we're talking about what makes heated rivalry so
Emotional Impact and Viewing Experiences
00:00:46
Speaker
addictive. Like what is in this story and the way that it was given to us that allows for this amount of obsession and re-watching. i will say that the other day i was feeling and sad and I put on episode five and it it immediately immediately made me feel better. i like only watched like maybe five minutes of it. And then watched the rest of it later. but yeah, it really was an ah immediate serotonin boost, which I loved.
00:01:11
Speaker
It always does that.
Release Strategy and Subtitle Issues in Latin America
00:01:12
Speaker
Yeah. I was so sad because HBO has finally, finally given us heated rivalry in Latin America. And I was super happy to, you know, tune in to take my notes for the episode on HBO Latin America. ah But they're doing one episode per week. So they're only in episode three.
00:01:31
Speaker
Oh no. So by the time they have episode five, we would have probably done be done recording the episodes of the first season. aha That's crazy.
00:01:44
Speaker
i can't believe they're releasing them week by week. Like, did they do that with I wonder if they did that with the other like places that it's like been released either, you know? That's an excellent question. They're doing that here. And I was very disappointed. Yeah, if you watch T-Dubrivalry for the first time, not VPN, and you're in like Europe up or the UK or in um Latin America or South America, um let us know how they released it. Is it episode by episode or did they give you it all at
HBO Subtitle Errors and Corrections
00:02:14
Speaker
once? Because I really want to know because that's very interesting. Yeah. I've also heard a lot about the subtitles.
00:02:21
Speaker
People complaining, people are not happy about how this, like the Latin American subtitles are. Obviously this is like hardcore fans that had watched it before with a VPN and now we're watching it on HBO Latin America. so we still like HBO has a reputation of not being very good with subtitles. And once again, we have that issue. Yeah, i actually noticed when I was rewatching episode five this week that they finally changed the subtitle in the um in the episode when Ilya's playing with the kids in the pool and he goes like, no, splash her. It used to be Flesher for like the longest time. And it finally, it was like Flesher, F-L-E-S-H-E-R. And they finally changed it to Splasher.
00:03:19
Speaker
like i finally noticed that
Travel Stories and Fandom Experiences
00:03:20
Speaker
this week. And I mean, I've rewatched so many times. That's wild. I did not notice that. Also, before we get into this episode, i have something so crazy that I want to talk about to shout out. And I mentioned at the top of the episode. As I think we mentioned, we we took last week off, but the week before, I mentioned that I was going to visit Lauren in Chicago.
00:03:43
Speaker
It was so fun. We went to a heated rivalry party, but that's not the part that I want to shout out. Oh my god. So first of all, it was so crazy getting to Chicago. So I'm flying out of undisclosed location in Florida. It is...
00:03:57
Speaker
It is tropical, and it is on a coast. But anyway, so there was tilde on that part is that it was a 20 hour delay. I was supposed to leave at 4pm on a Thursday. I did not we did not end up in the air until like noon Friday, like it was nuts.
00:04:09
Speaker
But during that time, which we didn't even know it was delayed till the next day until 11pm. So I had sat 10 minutes from home for seven hours from like 3pm to like 1030, like whatever it was. And as I'm sitting there, I'm like, you you look at the people around you, you know, There's a guy in the section like across from me, like in the little like row, the next row over basically. He's probably in his 50s or 60s, I think.
00:04:33
Speaker
He's reading Heated Rivalry. And I'm like, oh my god, no wait, Twin, hey. And i don't go talk to him because, but he's like at the end, like he's definitely at the cottage. And so I'm like, oh my god, I'll be trying to gauge his reactions. Also, I was watching I'll Believe in Anything to take notes for this recording. So I was like, what a crazy world. But I think it was him and his partner that were on their way back home to Chicago because overheard him talking to someone else. but But also, as they told us that the flight was delayed to the next day, that guy reading a heated rivalry starts yelling at the gate agent.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I believe that no one deserves to get yelled at while they're at work. And I share his frustrations. And also, that doesn't mean we take it out on the gate agent. But I was like, dude, we're better than that. Like, we do not, as heated rivalry consumers, we do not yell at people. It was the whole thing. No. not where the story ends. So the next day, i begrudgingly or frustratedly or whatever, i get on the plane and I see, I'm in row, I don't even remember what row I'm at. I'm in one of the rows in the middle-ish. And I see down the way, there's a girl in the seat near mine who has a hat on that has words on it. And I'm like,
00:05:38
Speaker
something There is something that is telling me that I need to read this hat. I'm getting closer and it says, I'm going to, and it says, and I'm like, what does it say? What does it say? I know it's going to say something that I'm interested in. and I get closer and sure enough, it says, I'm going to the cottage. And I was like, no, no, she's sitting behind me. And I'm like, oh my god. So I'm like kneeling on my seat. I haven't even put my bag down yet. I'm kneeling on my seat, and I'm like, oh my god, you watch Heated Rivalry? And so we're talking about it. I tell her that story of the guy from the gate who was reading the book and then yelling the gate agent. It was a whole thing. And I told her about the podcast, so you know if you're listening, shout out to you. didn't know. her name or her email or her Instagram or her phone number or anything. But shout out to her. me up. It was
'Heated Rivalry' Party and Community Engagement
00:06:24
Speaker
so, so crazy. it was so awesome to like meet someone in the wild like that and get to like have a little moment together. And then we're on the flight and I am reading this book that I was reading. My friends from book club recommended it. It's a lovely book. It's called Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins reading. Yeah. It's sapphic. It's so fantastic. It's a beautiful book. But I'm reading it and I'm getting towards the end and I hear like a commotion behind me and I just like turn to see like and someone's just like getting up or coming back.
00:06:50
Speaker
But the girl behind me, heated rivalry girly, is like, oh my god, I'm reading that book too. And I'm like, oh? way no way and I was like we would be such good friends I just thought it was so cool that like we are both on this flight we both consume heated rivalry we're reading this like really highly rated book I know the odds are like high I guess like it's not that crazy but I thought it was a very sweet moment that I shared with this stranger where like we had both suffered this long delay and we consumed the same media and I was like just finding a bit of companionship in everyday strangers and really shout outed to that girl. We like walked together at the Chicago airport a bit, like on the way to baggage claim and he did rivalry was in one of like the little shops they have. And she's like telling her
Shane's Coming Out Scene and Media Portrayal of Athletes
00:07:33
Speaker
friend like, Oh yeah. Like that's that, like the long, the, I don't remember. She was talking about one of the sequel books and I was like, Oh my God, like, look. And it was just so fun. So I have been thinking about this. So as of recording this, this was almost like two weeks ago. This episode still isn't coming out for another two weeks. So this is almost a month in the past.
00:07:51
Speaker
I don't even know she's still listening. But shout out to her for real, for real. That was really awesome. And I have been every day. I'm like, I've got to tell that story on the pod. I've got to tell that story. I'm thinking of you, girl in the airport.
00:08:06
Speaker
on the plane them up Girl on the plane. on the plane. Yeah, she was so cool. I was like, maybe I'll hear that he did rivalry party. I did not. But also we had so much else going on at that party. Oh my God. That so cool.
00:08:18
Speaker
but Amanda, I have like these really adorable pictures of Amanda outside in the snow. um Because it was like it like, we got to the party and then I was like, I got an alert on my phone because it tells me when it starts snowing. And I was like, Amanda, it's snowing. And Amanda being the sweet little Floridian was like, can we go inside? I was like, absolutely.
00:08:40
Speaker
I did not ask. I was like, no, was like, Amanda needs to go see Soap. Lauren tells all of like the the bag check, the security. All like friends and stuff. It was just so good that I got ratted out as the like whatever it's not that you wanted to go smoke. I wanted to have a cigarette. It was great. No, it was so much fun. love having a cigarette. the the The end of the, they played the skip case, like they played the whole scene of the admirals winning the the cup.
00:09:08
Speaker
yeah and They played the whole thing and the crowd went nuts. You would think it was like someone just won the Super Bowl. You, which one is even that. you would It was awesome. It was so fun. yeah Shout out to bestie Eden Strader for being Chicago's favorite lesbian and amazing. And shout out to Seth for also hosting a great party. Like you guys together, dream team. If you're Sofic and in Chicago, come to Garden of Events. They're so fun. I'm just going to do a little shout out because I love them and I love being Sofic and Garden of Events. So yeah. Engage in community. Engage in your community.
00:09:44
Speaker
Get a community. Get a queer community. Yes, they're the best. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, speaking of queer communities, let let's get into this freaking episode, bro. Okay, we open on this episode after we've been emotionally destroyed in episode four. We're in the middle of this gay nonsense. We're deep in it.
00:10:04
Speaker
We're here. We're vibing. We open. Dane, there's alarm going off. Rose is leaving. I'm I don't know, do you think this is supposed to be like directly after that night? Or do you think it's supposed to be like, it's supposed to be directly after that night, right? No, no, because afterwards in episode six, Ilya is like all jealous. Shane says like only twice. And I think this is a different night.
00:10:27
Speaker
where he didn't manage to have sex with her again so yeah i think we are getting like i another they're a different night okay yeah because then he does go to the airport and marlo when elia goes to the airport marlo is like did you get lucky last night and first of all we never talk about that elia enough the hoodie under the blazer elia but that's why I was like a little confused because I was like, is this the same night? That didn't really look like Shane's Montreal bedroom to me from what I remember. So I was just like very confused on like where we were in the timeline. But Rose is basically being like, I'm going to leave. And Shane's like, I'm sorry for underperforming. I think the season is just really stressing me out, which like, baby, I get. i understand that completely. But also...
00:11:17
Speaker
Like, this is this is a moment, for sure. And also, Rose is kind of like, let's get a drink or, like, get dinner this week. Just the two of us, which is different. It diverges from the book because Shane, in the book, Shane doesn't, he shows up to dinner and he sees that it's just going to be the two of them. Like, it's kind of more, he gets more blindsided by it. But I think, like, I think this moment where Rose is like, hey, we should get dinner, like, just the two of them.
00:11:43
Speaker
this week think that is like being very like i think that's being like very aware of like shane and his routines and things like that so shout out to rose for being a disabled ally we love that we love that from her are we going to the man in the crease part next oh god i hate them so much the man in the crease i hate them they're so mean like leave scott hunter alone for a second They're like, especially mean to him, which bothers me. Like, they're obsessed. Because if you have players that are not doing well in this huge pool of people that are playing the sport, why are you spending such long conversations and time to just... Rag on them.
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like, if we think about, like, I mean, this is mostly how, because, like, I have friends that are, like, sports podcasters or, like, make sports content and stuff. And so, like, sometimes they will say things to, like, rage bait people to get them to, like, watch their content and stuff. But, like...
00:12:48
Speaker
These are men who are making like multi-million dollars um to play a sport. And like they absolutely 100% deserve all of the critiques if they are playing badly. Because like, what do you mean you're playing badly? i am giving you all of this money and you're still not doing well. And especially if like it is like a continuous like thing. The Leafs got this a lot for like not being able to perform well in the playoffs because the Leafs can never perform well in the playoffs.
00:13:25
Speaker
And like, it like seriously makes fans pissed off because it's like, why am i giving you like all of this money, all of this like time, all of this dedication to be a fan of the sport? And then like, you are like not delivering like what you are capable of.
00:13:42
Speaker
like Scott Hunter is more than capable of being a Stanley Cup winner. Like the Leafs, Austin Matthews, like William Nylander, they are more than willing or like more than capable of being Stanley Cup winners. And to like be just like petty little assholes is just like very, like it's like barely like, I don't know, like I just have no sympathy for male athletes or like men athletes. Like there's nothing in your life like that's kidding Listen, i I understand that in real life because I don't really care about sports.
00:14:15
Speaker
Scott is my baby. He must be protected. He's a sweet man. He's a sweet man. He's going through a lot. And I have no sympathies for white male podcasters, which I assume man on the crease is full of white men. So, ah yeah. um um But also... Why are you apologizing for a white man? Why are you apologizing for Scott Hunter?
00:14:41
Speaker
Because he is sweet and he's my son. but but Well, male is or Man the Crease is somewhat important in the structure of the show because they set up for us the All-Stars theme as East vs. West. So this is going to be important later with Shane and Ilya on the same team.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah. we're We're getting dinner. Yeah, we're getting dinner. i love this. Like, this scene is so, so important to me because it like, opens with Rose kind of being like, oh, like, Miles is, like, you're so cute. And I'm already, like, I'm already clocking that as, like, oh, uh-oh. Like, this is, this is gonna go bad. Like, this is not what Shane wants. Like, the, have ever told you how cute you are? Like, I've said that to men that I'm gonna break up with her.
00:15:33
Speaker
how does that make sense because i i just like immediately clock that as kind of like a friend zoning tactic like i just like it's like you're not you're not like okay amanda you always are like you always quote that chapel rowan line where it's like oh call me hot not pretty Call me hot, not pretty, right? Because when you want people to be sexually into you, like, you know, she should be like, Shane, you're so hot. You're so sexy. Like all of this stuff. But she goes, have I told you how cute you are? and you're like, oh, oh oh no.
00:16:08
Speaker
I understand. This is a great scene. Yesterday I watched Dan and Phil's reaction to this episode and the way they were locked in for this scene. They were so worried of like how it's gonna go and they were stopping every single time to say like she is amazing. We love Rose. We want a Rose in our lives. They were like, we never had someone like that. And i was so happy that um we...
00:16:37
Speaker
got a different conversation that we usually have in media. We usually have like, you think of like Love, Simon and other like man who's gay but is not sure dating a woman who's a friend, you usually have like this whole drama where the woman like discovers that is like that this man is gay and they take it super personally and at the end, yeah in in almost every single one of this, they make up and they're friends. But there's always like this betrayal and I love, and and of course first Love, Simon is about teenagers, so that makes sense.
00:17:19
Speaker
um But I love how emotionally mature and attuned she is. To understand that yeah he actually likes her as a person.
00:17:30
Speaker
He thinks if I'm gonna like so a woman, it's gonna be this woman. And it's like this man is torturing himself. And I've been through this a lot of times. I'm just gonna help him. And I love her. I love her for that. I love that she... is in a great place with herself and her self-esteem. That she is not hurt by this, but actually happy to win another friend. Because she loves Shane. And I, again, i said this last week, um I love that we do get chemistry between them. This is not a matter of we do not go well together as two humans that interact. This is about sexuality. Right.
00:18:13
Speaker
But we need to be the best of friends because we do have chemistry. And that happens. A lot of the times people are trying to comply to social standards about sexuality. They do go for the person that they feel they click with. And they convince themselves or are confused about the difference between platonic love and sexual and romantic love. So...
00:18:38
Speaker
I love this. think it's one of the most powerful scenes we have in these series. And it's a no-brainer that it's part of one of the episodes that broke all the records online. And think this is the... episode that got
Narrative Shifts and Character Arcs
00:18:57
Speaker
best reviews and all that all over so it makes lot of sense it's it's super cool and i love that we start with this conversation and we're not dragging the viewers through anxiety for 20-30 minutes before resolving this drama. Yeah, for sure. It's such weight off his shoulders, I think. She really eases him into it and he is a little unsuspecting until she's kind of poking at him a little bit and gently opening him up. And he tears up and he gets to a point where he can only nod or shake his head. he's thinking of ilia when she asks if it was better when it was with the man and it's it's so sweet it's we also the we get the one of the most iconic moments in the show dare i say we get the hole and peg joke bros got jokes he's so funny shane is so funny and no one else gets to see that or understand that but he has such a specific sense of humor that is really endearing but he he says i'd rather be the hole of the peg like it's And it's true. He is little bottom boy Shane, you know? Like, I don't know. And Rose is like, yeah, that makes sense. One of my favorite scenes. And everything in this scene, I was saying, like, it doesn't drag us with our anxieties for a long, long time. Even before we fully understand what's going on, if you don't clock it like Lauren did the second Rose started talking, the music is telling us it's going to be all right. Yeah. He's telling us this is sweet.
00:20:24
Speaker
This is a good moment. And also in nonverbal cues that we get, we get like Hudson's hand is doing a lot in his acting, the way he covers his face, his mouth, ah the way he's like soothing himself by stroking his like lips. It's It's a beautiful depiction of someone who is very overwhelmed, who's feeling perceived at a level that they're not comfortable with, but who's also coming to terms with it and allowing this other person to have this conversation with them. So I really loved it.
00:20:58
Speaker
But both Hudson's and and and and Connor's acting, have like it's all on the small details. They're If you follow hands or eyes or voice, there's where you're going to find like the key to what they're doing and in a scene, yeah which I love.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, I started watching, when I was rewatching this, I started, like, normally what I do is I, like, watch, like like, the whole scene, but I really, like, zeroed in on, like, Hudson's acting, this most recent rewatch. And, like, even at the beginning of the, like, scene, you can see him when she, like, mentions, like, are there any out gay hockey players? Like, you can just see his fucking, like, face. face drop you can see like the anxiety immediately set in and I think this scene is also really important because it's one of the only scenes that we get in so far in these two books um or in this heated rivalry universe where Shane gets to have like autonomy over his coming out story because like long game spoiler if you've read those books here's my one allotted spoiler for the episode Shane and Ilya are like pretty brutally outed in the second book. And then we think about, you know, like in episode six, like Shane's dad finds them like, and like he doesn't get the autonomy to like tell his own like coming out.
00:22:24
Speaker
But like with Rose, she really like gives him the space to be like, yes, I am gay. Like, yes, this is like who I am. This is like the journey that I'm on.
00:22:35
Speaker
um And so I think that's also really powerful that it happens with a friend and not with like parents or whatever. Because like that is in reality, a lot of our like similar to a lot of our coming out stories, you know, like we maybe interact with our friends first and tell them that we're queer first before we go to our parents or larger institutions to let them know. And so I like those kind of echoes that this has as well. And then I was also thinking like, or Rose, like, Like, yeah this girl has been through it. Like, she's like, you're like, I've dated like 80% of my former boyfriends are gay. Like, she was like, I'm gonna go date at a hockey player.
00:23:15
Speaker
and Like, they're all straight. Like, there's gonna be no problems. I'm not gonna get a gay boyfriend. And then you're like, Rose, sweetie, my love. But then I'm also like, Rose...
00:23:28
Speaker
de are you are you a little Are you a little safe space? Are you a little are you a little you know? are Back my line, Rose. Are you you know? The people that ship like Rose and Svetlana, it's so real. It's so true. And also pair Rose with Ilya's gaydar and they would be unstoppable. They would sniff out every what like if they read everyone. which if you don't know, if you don't understand what I'm referring to, in the rest of the books, in the rest of the Game Changers series, Ilya just happens to somehow find all of the other queer hockey players and that yes well that he encounters, like in the teams that he plays. And so just pair him up with Rose, and they would be so unstoppable. that i would love to see that AU. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, and I mean, poor Rose, but at the same time, This girl loves a gossip, you know?
00:24:21
Speaker
So imagine the amount of gossip that she is like. She is so good at reading people. And she is just like, she is getting friends, like good guy friends she likes and doesn't have to have sex with, which sounds quite fun. Yeah. Her girl needs their gays. Yeah. So I fully understand that it must be frustrating at some point where you're like, what does this say about me? But at the same time, she's winning here. And apparently it hasn't been traumatic for her. She's just laughing it off and she's having a great time. And she's like, oh, honey, I can help you because I've been through this conversation so many times that I'm just going to guide you slowly and very carefully through it. And you're going to be fine. Woo!
Hockey Careers vs. Personal Lives: A Paralleled Discussion
00:25:12
Speaker
Right. And I think this really like ties in well to our like fan mail that we got from last week, which was like about like, oh, don't like trick some straight woman into like being your girlfriend. And it's like, this is way more the reality with Rose and Shane, like of like people who find out their partner is queer after dating them or whatever. And so like, I think this is like, it's just such a healthy representation of like having like friends that are of the opposite gender and like just really having them as a support system. And so I really love this like moment for Shane. And then he finds out that he can like trust Rose with this because he doesn't, like even as he says, as she's getting the car, like he doesn't know about things and stuff or whatever. Like he doesn't have anyone to talk to about it.
00:26:06
Speaker
You know, like the only person he can talk to about it Ilya. Rose gives Shane something that is very precious, I think, and I love that we keep seeing the women of this show being the best allies. Great representation, historically accurate, the way women have been there for the gay community and for their gay male friends. is so important. And I really love the change in the narrative that this is not the source of the conflict. It's not about how is Rose gonna react and we're not using her as only like an obstacle. She's a person who is gonna be there for more than just being Shane's short period girlfriend. So I really like it. I feel refreshed by this change of narrative. Yeah, no, I totally agree. really yeah
00:26:58
Speaker
And I mean, I think it's like, it's very well paralleled by like the scene where Ilya and Svetlana are like hanging out in bed. And like Svetlana does get like a lot of time this episode, but especially as Ilya like goes to Russia. And so I think it's like, it really shows that like both of these people like who have really struggled with like having supports and like feel like they don't, like they can't be themselves because they will like lose something in some way, shape or form, still have these like background characters, these people that love them, these people that care for them and give them like unconditional support and are really important to their stories. And so I think that's also like a really nice juxtaposition between Svetlana and Rose this episode as well.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And we we almost immediately get that conversation in bed that you're mentioning. And Svetlana is reading the room so well, not only the hockey, because we already know, like she's she she and Juna are like the best ones at reading hockey, even better than Shane. But she's also reading Ilya. so so well and she is gently pushing him to acknowledge that he knows shane is a good player and that he knows that shane is good looking but she won't push further than that she's like okay enough for today let's breathe for a while and then she mentions rose landry Yeah, she starts talking about Shane in a positive way and he goes, if you say so, and she gives him such a look and that definitely says like, you are not fooling me, pal. Like, absolutely. She brings up Rose, which is such a touchy subject. Also, I think it's really funny that she's so smart about hockey and Ilya could not give less than a shit and it's his fucking job. Like, he does not care. he does not he does not care the way that Shane cares. he does not care the way that Svetlana cares. He only cares in that it gets him paid and that lets him do do what he wants to do. I think that he has so many things that he has to care about that at this point he's played his plate is full. Like, ah I saw that on the notes and I was like, hmm, there's a lot of discourse around Ilya not being into hockey. And I think that he enjoys it. And when he's on the ice, he's having a lot of fun. But when he's not on the ice, he has so much on his mind. He has to be on constant... alert and I think that does take away the ability to enjoy and be obsessed about like your job when you need to be on top of so many things like he is managing his own family from the distance he's like here's money for this and this and this and this and please stupid brother do what you're being told and don't abandon our father and don't use this money for cocaine use it for his care and at the same time he's like And now Shane left me and is dating this other woman. And now we have to play together. So they're talking about the All-Stars game. And probably Ilya is freaking out about what is this going to be like to play with Shane in the same team when they are not on speaking terms. So I think that that indifference ties very well with Ilya's mental health. I agree. I do believe that we're getting hints regarding his depression in ah in the future. And that just not caring about so many stuff besides like what is immediately urgent. And he's like, hockey, I got it. like I can handle it even if I don't log in. So that is not a priority right now.
00:30:31
Speaker
And hope that we get in this new book that is coming, we do get him enjoying hockey a bit more. Now that all of these things are out of the way, you know, and now that he's playing with the people he loves, I do want to see Ilya enjoy hockey. I think that we will, especially because him and Shane will be on the same line. We're assuming the Sun Tars in Ottawa. I think they might be having, both of them will be having a better time than where they were before. Yeah, I like the winger comment. I was really funny from Svetlana because like a lot of times people who play center can play wing. Like it's very common see like center men or center players be able to also play wing. yeah, There are people who are like true centermen and those people like Shane are really going to be like developing playmakers. And so that's why like the right or left wing will not work as well for them. And when I say wingers, I mean forwards in the game because there's three forwards on every team. You have a right wing, a left wing and a center. And so if you are a playmaker, it's really hard for you to be a winger because you direct all of the plays, right? And so like you are the one that's passing up into your wingers or telling your defensemen where they should go. You are being both like a forward and defenseman kind of like almost midfielder in soccer and so like developing a two-way skill as a centerman is really important being able to play both offensive and defensive whereas someone like Ilya
All-Star Game and Tampa's Narrative Impact
00:32:03
Speaker
is more of maybe a natural winger and he maybe just plays center because he's the captain it makes more sense I see Ilya's play more as like a really good goal scorer I think that he would be really great on Shane's wing like I've said before in the podcast and probably people have heard me say in general but I don't think they would put them together on line all of the time at Ottawa think it would be better if they were first and second center first and second line centers just to spread their abilities across Yeah, I love this kind of little peek into their hockey styles and how they differ this All-Star game. So is it time for us to head to Tampa? Yeah. I think it is. We finally get a timeline mentioned because up to this point, we're a little loosey-goosey in time. I mean, we knew it was closer to the last episode's title card, but here we get the 2017 All-Stars Tampa World.
00:32:59
Speaker
We're in Florida, baby! Also, resident Floridian, I will say Tampa low-key sucks. Tampa isn't even on the coast. It has a bay. Wait, kind of love Tampa. Shut up. I like like Clearwater and St. Pete a lot better. I know they're different. and like I just like the actual coast of it more. you know like Yeah, but Ybor City in Tampa is so cool. really guess. The people I know from Tampa, I guess Tampa is a big place and the sections within it are very different. People I've known from Tampa can be very like it's very hit or miss.
00:33:28
Speaker
Well, okay, so, like, Clearwater is, like, just all fucking Scientologists. Which, I had a friend who lived in a house that, like... that Yeah, no, literally, that Tom Cruise used to stay in when he would let he would go to Tampa for Scientology stuff. um And we, like, one time I was visiting her during a hurricane because it was on, like, my side of the coast of Florida and I wanted to go to the other side because I was stupid and I didn't know.
00:33:51
Speaker
It was my first year in Florida. Like, literally, I moved down to Florida and, like, three weeks later, there was a major hurricane and I was like, oh... yeah So I went to ah St. Pete, like Clearwater area, and we drove around in the St. Pete area and like looked at all the Scientologists just like standing out in the corner trying to get people to become a Scientologist. And then St. Pete feels like very, like St. Pete's like very gritty. Like it's very like dive bar feels. Like it's very beach town. Like no shoes, no shirt, like no problem, like kind of vibes. Whereas I feel like Tampa's a little more like, upscay I don't know. I also know that like in Tampa, there's a lot of like Chicago transplants. Really? I had like a lot of like, like aunts and uncles like had places in like Tampa St. Pete area because like that's where all the Chicago transplants go is on that side of the like of the state and on the Gulf. I've been to USF a few times for either concerts or college tours or other miscellaneous things, and that part of Tampa is just like, it it reminds me a lot of my hometown, which is on and another undisclosed part of Florida that I'm not going to actually put out there, but it reminds me my hometown where it's just like six lanes of road and like strip malls and like, it's not cute and it's like kind of shitty apartments. Like, I don't know, just my impression of Tampa is not positive. It's not one of my favorite parts. of for Granted, a lot of Florida sucks, and I will say that out there, even like the urban- Yeah, I was like, you're describing of Florida. It's all strip malls and like apartment buildings and concrete and gross shit. I've some the better parts of Florida in my time, but i'm seeing this in the show, I was like, man, they got the that fancy filter over it that makes it look like it's a little nicer, but Tampa, it's Tampa's not really on the coast. You still got the Pinellas County out over there. It's on the bay. It's on like the Tampa Bay. like
00:35:46
Speaker
Also, I think that side of Florida's nicer anyways because of the Gulf. I'm an Atlantic ride or die. Like i that is my goal. I know. I know you are. I know you are. Well, I was just sitting here being like these stupid fucking Floridians. Well, and because people threw Tampa into central Florida and I'm like, i don't really know. For me, it's is the Caribbean, right or die. You know, like, to me, nothing compares. Nothing compares. So I'm just listening here like, sure, Florida.
00:36:15
Speaker
Sure. No, i I like Tampa. I went in, ah my best friend Al and i we took a trip to Tampa to see Beyonce. It was like literally the hottest Beyonce concert on record. It was like 103 degrees outside and it was an outdoor stadium. It was hotter than her concert in Dubai was, which was like crazy. But we stayed in Ybor City, which is where like all the gay clubs are. And like... That's true. I would go back to Ybor... Yeah, it has a really cutie like nightlife and stuff. So yeah, I really enjoy Tampa. I mean, it's not like if I'm like, oh, let's go to Florida. It's not like my number one. Like I love Miami. Like I would go to Miami hands down. But Tampa's fun.
00:36:56
Speaker
So that's that's my take. But anyways, we get these boyos. We get these boyos in Tampa Bay. um Oh, personal check in. No, before that, before that personal check in 2016 or 2017. I was 16. Sorry. Well, what part at what time of year is this? This is like spring?
00:37:13
Speaker
February. February. Oh, oo
Personal Reflections and Growth Parallels
00:37:16
Speaker
I was 15. was not quite 16 yet. This was yes, I was born in the middle of 01. Just right there in the middle the end of 2017, was 15. I had my learner's permit. This was the spring of my freshman year of high school. This was when I was starting my queer relationship. I know I mentioned it last time.
00:37:34
Speaker
had the timing a little off. Queer relationship, for end of freshman year of high school, it it exploded and was such a mess. And I'm sure I'll bring it up again. But that's important because it's my queer history and we're all queer history. And I'm putting it out there. and I was in Florida. I was still in Florida. I've been in Florida the whole time, but it's relevant to right now. so I was already with my current partner. We had just decided to go vegan together. So that is my second month as a full vegan, which has been one of the most amazing experiences of my life to do that with someone else.
00:38:07
Speaker
And we're about to experience the curse that started with 2016 in politics in my own country with what we call it plebiscito para la paz. And it was really traumatic. I remember exactly what I was when that happened. That was a few months later than this timeline. So it was like a mix of really good things. Like um in my last year, like by by December that year, I would have finished my my undergrad.
00:38:34
Speaker
And I was already starting to look at masters and PhD programs in the to move out of Colombia and continue my studies. My partner was about to move to Boston in the summer. So yeah, it was, I actually, actually, Lauren, February 2017, was in Chicago. because I was with my partner. He had a campus visit at UChicago. I was like, I have some free time and we have family and friends in Chicago. So I decided to join him and ah just be there for him. And it was so fun.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah. We had a lot of fun and we froze our ass off. Oh, yeah. Because it was freezing and hell. Oh, for sure. I didn't live in Chicago at that point. In spring of 2017, I was, i probably found out like that I got accepted to where I got, but like where I did my master's at um in Chicago, probably in that spring. i was still dating a man. Yeah.
00:39:37
Speaker
um And then i'm I didn't move to Chicago until like August of 2017. So i was not like a Chicagoan just yet. But it was definitely like, like my best friend was at the same school that I was going to do my master's at. So it was like big for me. I was probably drowning in like grad school applications. I was also student teaching at this time. Same. And... student teaching seventh and eighth graders in Indiana. And i cried every day of my student teaching, every single day. um It was the worst time of my life.
00:40:17
Speaker
Crazy shit happened during it. my My mentor teacher was, one of my mentor teachers was like the worst human on the face of this earth. It was a really hard semester and it really solidified that teaching k through 12 was not going be for me. So I'm kind of glad that that happened to me because it like really put me on my like road to being a college professor. um Yeah, I was definitely very, very nervous. But that's also when I kind of decided that I was going to start studying fan fiction. and studying fan studies as like a part of my master's program because my master's program had a really big like DH component, digital humanities component to it. So I
Fandom Significance and Character Chemistry
00:40:56
Speaker
was able to like learn a lot of skills during my master's degree that like aligned well with fan studies, um which is now what I kind of basically have a PhD in.
00:41:05
Speaker
Although according to some people on the internet, you know, my PhD isn't worth the paper that it's printed on, but... Tea. Tea! Also people's opinions are wrong. Yeah. Fanfiction is also part of queer history, so we're all on track, you know, like... Listen, i and if you go back to the history of the beginning of, like, when fandom became a thing, like, the reason why fandom became a thing was because of Kirk Spock fic from Star Trek. Like, that was what people were writing at fan conventions. Yes. It was Star Trek and X-Files. Yes.
00:41:39
Speaker
Well, X-Files was like later, but it like really like in the 60s and 70s when fandom started like booming. Actually, very interestingly, um you can go look at historical zines made by fans that are Kirk Spock related at the University of Iowa. They have a fandom zine library. And you can go like look at all of the historical like artifacts from early fandom, which is really awesome. Yeah. And I like fandom was like, fan studies was like conceived as a field in the early 90s, which is when we start to see so like X-Files come out. um So yeah, that was definitely what we were all doing in 2017. Speaking at fan studies, this fan do be studying Ilya fine as fuck at that bar. Oh my God. Okay. This is my least favorite Ilya look, I think.
00:42:27
Speaker
Oh, No, I hate the club one. You hate the club one? I hate this shirt. I hate this shirt. I hate this shirt. For me, there are two of the top of the, like, Ilya, where I am so... I can't think about anything else because all I'm looking at is how he looks. And it's this one. He's at the bar in the floral shirt in in Florida. And then also at the cottage where he's, like, asking if Shane about ah Yuna and David... Those are my two, like, Ilya, like, his just, the angle and the hair and the face, it's just really, I'm like, oh, I'm, yeah i my my brain is, like, wiped out. No, my top Ilyas Russian bathroom Ilya in the tux.
00:43:09
Speaker
Oh, true. And, like, Ilya in the black sweatshirt with the blazer over it. Like, I don't know what it is. i don't know what they put in those fucking... And an Airport Ilya. Airport Ilya at the the Cottage episode because the backwards hat, the glasses, and the sleepless tank top. ah this I do like that one. That's probably my third. Lau do you have any input or are you just here i I'm good I'm just here I you know like I I only have strong opinions about his club look that's it this one I find so like and I know that he in the book is feeling super ashamed of his look because Shane is rocking this suit so he's like oh I look silly but what I was focusing on
00:43:56
Speaker
It's his self-suiting with the ear again. Yeah. but baby And the way he just like drinks this Corona as soon as he sees Shane. Like liquid courage. yeah Yeah. Which speaking of drinks and Shane, he breaks his no drinking during the season rule again. This is the I think the second or third time that he does it. And um I don't know what that's about. I don't know if it's... I don't know. i'm starting I'm starting to see, like, Shane with the drinking as, like, liquid courage. Like, I think Shane really buys into that, like, liquid courage kind of aspect of it. Like, I think Shane fully goes into this, knowing that he's going to see Ilya, like, understanding that he's gay, knowing that he's going have a conversation with Ilya. Like, so I think he's very much like, I am so anxious about this whole scenario. I need to have a beer. Like, because otherwise I'm going to die. Yeah. And he's also flirty as hell. And this is part of the performance that he has. Because he's like, I need to act cool. I need to, like, I have a new personality. Because I have new clothes. And yeah he does sell, like, Ilia clocks it immediately, like, no ginger ale. And Shane is like, I'm feeling a bit wild. Wink, wink. And I've never seen Shane has this much game before. Like, there's... the way he is attacking Ilya. Like, Ilya is just losing it. He's like, but why are you doing this to me? I don't understand what's going on. Why are you flirting with me right now? Yeah, well, Ilya, he tries to poke about the Rose situation. on like he tries a few times to try to like get at it, but like Shane's really like picking up on it. Oh, he's not subtle at all. He literally is like, did you bring on anybody? I'm like, I'm like sitting there watching it. I'm like, Ilya, come on, bro.
00:45:45
Speaker
Yes, but Shane is going like our slash whoosh just like right over his head. He's like, my parents didn't come because they're going we're somewhere soon or something. oh But we do find, yeah, oh yeah yeah. It's like King Koon or something. And he says, he says, I didn't feel like being managed this weekend.
00:46:03
Speaker
Yes. And to me, again, he's like saying, I wanted to be home alone. Like, I have... I have plans! We said, yeah, when when when we were teenagers, we say like, tengo casa sola, my house is like empty. Come over. My parents are home. There's no, uh-huh, exactly. And this is giving that vibe. Like, I didn't want my parents to be here because I have something in mind that I want to be doing.
00:46:30
Speaker
yeah In my free time. Exactly. And, like, when he first sits down, Ilya is, like, so standoffish. Like, he's, like, captain. Like, you know, like, he's very, like... And Shane's, like, you can kind of see Shane being, like, wait, what's wrong? And then as soon as Ilya's, like, did you bring anybody? And Shane's, like, no, I didn't, like, bring my parents. Ilya's kind of, like, his his, like, demeanor, like, immediately changes. Like, immediately. And, yeah, it's...
00:46:57
Speaker
They're like checking each other out, staring at one another. like this Shane wants to kiss him so bad. so bad so much There's like a little bit of awkward tension, but they always have that sexual tension going on. But Vaughn comes and just breaks this tension. And after he leaves, there's this shot of them because beforehand like we the only shots we get like first we get ilia kind of zoomed out before shane gets there but then it's just kind of close-ups with them at the bar but then after vaughn leaves there's the shot of them in the middle of the bar center of the frame zoomed out from the back of the bar they're close together again not like when they're on the couch when they're far apart or purposely distant they are purposely close here they are next to each other like shane could have shane could have sat two seats away he could have like scooted over no he is in ilia's space and
00:47:41
Speaker
That's exactly where Ilya wants him. Exactly. Exactly. Finally, Ilya asks directly about the road situation and Shane tells him they're not compatible, which we'll put a pin in. Ilya looks at Shane's lips. Go watch it again.
00:47:53
Speaker
Ilya looks at Shane's lips. Like they are wanting to make out so bad right here in this part. They don't give two fucking shits. They both look drippy as hell. They're hot as fuck. Like they are in Tampa. They're in like a wild city.
00:48:04
Speaker
They just want to make out. And then speaking of drippy and wet. drinking and what Like perfect segue into god damn. the Like I watched the behind the scenes of the pool scene the other day and good lord. need to link that to me. i need to watch that. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, it's on threads. So you need to get on threads, but, um, T, uh, get off Twitter. It's a hellscape. It's my hellscape.
00:48:31
Speaker
pushing out of the pool and like standing over Shane, like, oh, Dom daddy. Get it. Get it. it It's so hot. It's so hot. The dripping off the face, the body, the tiny fucking shorts.
00:48:50
Speaker
The only daddy I got out of this was that he's so good with kids. Like, it's so cute. I did not get a dog daddy out of this. Okay, so so daddy in every sense. Daddy in every sense of the word. Okay. Absolutely. Two things here. Like, I love the daddy vibe and I love how Shane is shamelessly checking him out when he comes like, Hollander, give me your wallet. But also, I said that I was watching and Phil's reaction to this. The way Dan is like, he sees Ilya with the kids and he's like, this is doing something for me. Like, I'm invested. This is like husband material. I love this man. Yeah. Yes, he's like trying not to watch, but you, like those shades are so dark. He's not doing anything but watching. Like also the shot where Ilya's like open mouth in the pool, like fake drowning. It's so funny to me. Like, you can just tell that they're like a perfectly balanced pair, like especially as parents. Like, Ilya is like the like wild dad that like gets all the kids in the pool and everything while Shay gets a break because he needs a mental health break from all of the like support and love and everything else that he's doing for these children. And then Ilya gets to have like a break of like being the fun dad and being like the supportive dad in like the fun spaces and stuff. So...
00:50:10
Speaker
Like it is very, it's very, it's a good balance between the two of them. You know damn well he does this with the Pike kids. Uh-huh, exactly. I saw on threads the other day, someone pointing out that you can see Connor's background as a gymnast. Because when both in the scene with Svetlana in the bed and here every time he jumps, he just like points his foot perfectly. Like amazing, beautiful. But at the same time, we're doing the shark fin. I just love this man.
00:50:38
Speaker
He's so funny. and I honestly think if he and Shane didn't have the conversation at the bar, this scene wouldn't have happened. like Like, I don't think he would have been as funny or... like he's, like, showing off for Shane. Like, he's, like, being like, look, I can be, like, funny and interesting because, like, he's, like, fully sold on this point.
00:50:57
Speaker
So other places where Ilya is fully showing off for Shane is at the All-Star Game. We get them playing together for the first time. This, for me, as a hockey fan, is really hot.
00:51:10
Speaker
Like, I love the signals that other players... Like, the tapping of the... like Like, because that, to me, is, like, so quintessentially hockey. Like, the way that, like, players talk to one another on the ice, both through, like, their movements, but also through, like, how they actually verbally talk to one another. like That was like, I was like, oh, Jacob Tierney did his big one with this scene. He was like, okay, you guys have been bitching that the show isn't about hockey. Here's the hockey right now.
00:51:37
Speaker
Like, so hot. The no look pass is like something we all fucking dream of as happening to work and hockey. This is everything to me. Ilya takes the opportunity to kiss Shane's cheek. You know, and this is why I love social media. AU's on Archive of Her Own, you know Stan Twitter was going insane about that. You know NHL Twitter like could not shut the fuck up about Ilya. Even like Shane's dad notices that and like mentions it in the sixth episode. like There was so much chemistry between the two of you. Like, like if Stan Twitter did it wasn't like, these guys must be fucking.
00:52:16
Speaker
Like, you guys have no eyeballs. Like, come on. Come on, y'all. yeah They are so cute on the ice. It's awesome. And they're so good together. that ah i love that there the fans are actually getting what they wanted when they ask repeatedly for them to be in the same team. Because it's like, I know I said I don't watch sports. But I do what watch some sports sometimes. I'm watching the Olympics right now. And it it is so fun when you get good people together and they do amazing things. Like, that's exciting. So I also see the Twitter going crazy, even those who are blind to queerness, about the way these two men play together and the way they're, on like, unbeatable when they're together. Yeah, I think your comparison to the Olympics is like perfect because like one of the reasons why I've been so excited to watch the Olympics is because we get like best on best hockey. Like you are taking the best like players from each country and putting them on a team together. So you just get to see like magic on the ice every time you like watch the games. Like the women's U.S. team, by the time this episode airs, hopefully, hopefully they will have won a gold medal. But they are like so in tuned with one another. Every time I watch a game, i am like, Jesus Christ, these people are incredible freaking athletes. Like unbelievable.
00:53:44
Speaker
They are doing things like on the ice that like you only can do with the best players. And it's happening with the U.S. s men's hockey team. It's happening with the Canadian men's hockey team. It's happening with all of these teams. And it just like, it is like why the Olympics are so exciting. I mean, I have a lot of like thoughts about like, you know like mental health pressures, especially like if after like the Ilya Malinan, upset that happened this year and like his kind of comments about like how if he had gone to the 2022 Olympics in Beijing, he would have been more prepared for like the mental pressures. And so I think there are like, even we've seen this like in the past with Simone Biles and like just the way that like like the hyper fixation on these athletes for a very short amount of time. can be very detrimental to their mental health and like this insane amount of pressure that we don't see other countries as like much as we do in the United States. I
Sunset Scene and Relationship Transitions
00:54:42
Speaker
mean, I have a like a lot of thoughts on that, but one of the greatest things about the Olympics is that you get to see like just such a high caliber of talent on the ice doing magic together. And that's what I imagine it feels like to watch Shane and Ilya actually play hockey together. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Well, then we move to this beach sunset that I love.
00:55:01
Speaker
it's It's one of the most romantic scenes that we get in this series. And we have the whole, like, I looked it up, compatible. I thought I knew what it meant, but I wanted to be sure. And then the thumbs meeting. And Ilia is looking at Shane with hunger and with yearning like the yearning in the scene is like something else and it's just like a small like preamble to what we're gonna get in the next scene that works so well and like it works perfectly yeah it's such a beautiful shot but it's it's such a thematically important shot too like this sunset we will come back to as well and i also want to say they're not sitting too close but they're not too far they're still in the middle third of the frame which i find to be important and they're like so worried about being in public even though they could probably hold hands and literally no one would notice or tear off but they still just it's only thumbs like that's the most they can do in public but i wanted to ask y'all what do you see the significance of the setting suddenly like do you think that that has meaning for them here at this point in their relationship Yeah, I mean, i definitely can see it being like... Because, I mean, the exact next scene is, like, Shane coming out to Ilya, even though Ilya is like, you've sucked my dick for a really long time. Like, I know you're freaking gay. But, like, it it's one thing to, like, come out and actually say it and kind of, like, take that next step. And so I think this is definitely, like, the sun setting on one part of their relationship and moving into the next. Mm-hmm. I also think about this scene where it's the first time that Shane, we see as viewers, Shane offer up his, like, offer to come to Ilya's room. Like, in the past, it's always been like, Ilya, like, when think about in the first episode, Ilya asks for Shane's room number. Ilya tells Shane 12 or 1221. He asks
00:56:56
Speaker
Shane to come to his penthouse in Vegas. Like he asked Shane to come over to his house in Boston. Like all of these things are like Ilya asking Shane to do things. And we finally see like Shane reciprocate. So it also could be like a moment, like the sun setting on this could be like also like Shane's role as being kind of like a backseat passenger maybe in this relationship and like finally becoming a part of it and wanting to like go move forward with Ilya. So I think it's it's a really nice moment. Yeah, and ah besides, I fully agree with you, Lauren. And besides that, i I think the light that we get in this moment is very significant as well. Because we have seen them at night. And then last episode, we were talking about how it's the first time that they're intimate during the day.
00:57:44
Speaker
And they actually see each other at like daylight. And here is like the the merging of both. like You have this sort of light that allows you to admire the other person but at the same time you can hide in it so like enough for them to to touch in a very like subtle way but still touch in public which i i love that's what sunset sunsets have like romantically you know like it's first beautiful to watch But at the same time, you do have like this mystery of the night that is coming and of this light that is not uncovering every single secret that you have, but it's allowing you to see some things. So that for me was one of the best parts of this is them having the freedom to touch slightly because of the kind of light that they're getting and because of where they are. Yeah. That was really great insight. Thank you. Yeah, I didn't realize the importance of that at first, but then after watching something that happens in the cottage, I was like, oh, this is this is very important. So thank you for that. Then we get to Ilya's room and he does get a call from Alexi, which the full iPhone interface, no longer just Blackberry screen or something like that. This is full iOS, baby. Just wanted to throw that out there. Shane comes in and is stressed as hell. He sits. He tries to address the connection between them. Ilya will not give him an inch.
00:59:09
Speaker
Shane tells him that he's gay which is just lol like it's to be very serious and to Shane it's so serious but to Ilya it's so unserious he's like bro what do you mean you've had your my dick in your mouth of course you're gay bro come on No homo? What? Yeah, and he's like it's not just being gay. It's you. It's this like I feel like we were something and Ilya is like we can't be something They just go so back and forth that I think I like you a little too much and it's oh I want to say something about this because I was nonverbal
00:59:44
Speaker
when I took my notes, but that means that I draw a lot of doodles that help me understand the blocking of this scene. So I need to use that. And also, Lauren, you're free to use that for teasers. Of course. Yeah, area yeah, yeah. Will do. do. There's so a lot of like drawing.
01:00:01
Speaker
So, Ilya breaks down, he drops the family lore about Irina dying and his dad is sick with dementia, and Shane climbs on top of him, kisses and hugs him, again using his body to reach through emotions, but we actually got emotions this time instead of just yelling. And I think that's really huge. I do think this is a new chapter for them. Like they are actually talking to each other and trying to get through things like how Shane was trying to talk to ah shade was trying to talk to him about his feelings, but Ilya cannot have all that right now. He cannot have panic attack coming out on him right now. And this is the first scene they filmed, if I remember correctly. This was the first like actual scene, and then the first intimate scene was the Vegas scene, which is wildly monumental things to to kick off the gate, but I mean, that just kind of launched them into that dynamic that they could hold through the rest of the season, so Loki iconic. But I thought there' was really interesting, it was the first one they filmed. But I thought this was a really, really sweet moment of just the way Shane is just immediately there for him. He's not trying to have sex with him, but he is trying to be there for him with his body, like like crushing him with his body weight and being like a weighted blanket. We do get to cut to black, but then we get back to Shane leaving and Illya says, good night, Shane.
01:01:09
Speaker
Shane says, good night, Illya. And they both smile. So then they know they can be on a first name basis and they can be intimate emotionally. and And so this is just breaking through all sorts of barriers for them. And I really love it. Yeah. Yeah. I think this scene is a beautiful scene and i was very tired when I took my notes so I basically just made doodles to help myself understand how this scene is built because you know i I love to dissect how intimacy is built and how a lot of the cinematography is communicating to us where we are at this relationship and where they are emotionally So when this scene starts, we have we have them being very away from each other. Like, Ilya is at the desk. He is visibly uncomfortable. Shane asks him to sit down, but Ilya is not quite sitting down. He's, like, halfway through actually being sat down. So he's, like, complying, but at the same time, he's resisting this conversation with his...
01:02:12
Speaker
body and with his posture and Shane is completely vulnerable. He is on this bed, sitting down, ready to purr his heart out and he is not closing himself up physically at all. Which is a huge contrast with our first intimacy scenes that we got in episodes 1 and 2 where he will always like cross his arms or protect himself with arms, hands or knees. Here he's open. And then when ah Shane does the like boring comment and you can see Ilya give up. You can see him like his whole body relaxes with that with that ah breath that he lets out. And he is just like, OK, this is happening. I'm going to do this.
01:02:57
Speaker
And he moves to the bed. So he he realizes that if he continues to resist this conversation, things are going to end sort of like they ended last time. So he's like, okay, we're going to do this. But he's still resisting because he's terrified. And so Shane comes out and this whole conversation, Ilya repeats a lot. Why? Why? Why? and But once he's on the bed, he's actually listening. He's just freaking out. And he turns his body towards Shane, even though...
01:03:29
Speaker
he is constantly looking away because he is like so scared that he's getting angry and uh we then get him turning back to shane and screaming in his face like i couldn't go back to russia and immediately shane disarms him with what would happen to you and he breaks his voice breaks when he says i don't want to find out and that's where you like understand that he is in like survival mode right now and that's why he has been so close up so tense so aggressive but you see him melting down all his ah defenses and then Shane how does Shane melt these defenses by asking questions which is something we didn't get before as much like he he did try it in Vegas but Ilya was not up for the challenge
01:04:22
Speaker
back then. And then we get to like, my mother is dead, father is sick, dementia, and he turns away again and we have the one tear. And that's where, when we get them like merging in the same like spot because Shane comes up to him and hugs him with hands and feet. Like he's enveloping this huge man with his whole body and he kisses him. He comforts him physically. Yes. But also, he he's talking, like, Ilya is saying sorry, sorry. And Shane is not, like, what he would have done before is this kiss would have led to something very sexual. This kiss would not have been a gentle, comforting kiss, but it would have been the initiation of sex, so you can take your mind out, like, of these awful, awful feelings that you're experiencing. Instead, we get him rocking him in this hug. And this is actually good for your nervous system when you're not feeling well. And we're going to see other like super good technique in the next episode. But emotional regulation benefits a lot from a lot of these movements.
01:05:33
Speaker
that we see here. So for me, it was like these bodies are telling a story about how key this moment is for that vulnerability that they are available to a achieve achieve. Because yeah, before we're having fun, like Rose is out of the picture and we're having fun and we're having chemistry, but right now we have to face our fears because this is getting serious and it's completely normal to like this is very on character for both of them. Their reactions and the way they they guide each other through this like Ilya is angry because he's scared and not because he finds Shane annoying. which is something that I know a lot of people didn't read appropriately. This is a fear response. And I just want to remind everyone that the the danger is very, very real.
01:06:27
Speaker
Right. The consequences for being gay in Russia are terrifying. Okay. It might not be the most terrifying one that we have on the planet, but it is still. not pretty. So I just want everyone to keep that in mind that this is where this man is coming from. He is literally fighting for his life.
01:06:46
Speaker
isn
Ilya and Shane's Relationship Evolution
01:06:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, I think this scene is really important because it it helps establish the next scene. And then um where Shane and Ilya are in his bed at his Boston house together. and Shane is like asking him questions about his family. And Ilya is like, you asked too many questions. Like he's trying, he's using this as a shield, like very much so. And I like, he doesn't, he's not able to move past it until his father dies. Like, he is very much, like, when his father dies and when he realizes that he won't be coming back to Russia, like, like I don't want to say it's, like, a complete change in personality, but it is a very obvious, like, change to Shane and I think to viewers as well. Like, before, Ilya is very much being, like...
01:07:35
Speaker
I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure. Like, no, or rude, or like, as Lau was just saying, but like, I think this is like, when his father dies, it is a distinct change because he realizes, oh, I don't actually have to come back to this horribly homophobic and awful country anymore and see my family that hates me. Like, I can go be in Canada with the man that I love and everything will be fine, or at least we'll be fine in the future. yeah Yeah, I think that's a great segue into him back in Boston or what we get next in Boston, which is two weeks later. Hayden is like leaving and Ilya calls Shane, which, oh, I wanted to say we get the haptic typing sounds from iPhones and the classic iPhone like sent like the little bloop. Ilya is texting him to like to come meet up and Shane is like, no, we can't. As he's grabbing his stuff to go, he's like actively saying, no, we can't. As he's out the door, which I thought was really funny. Literally me. Yeah, I was like, LOL girl. But yeah, they don't run off to shower. They do actually talk. And as y'all were saying, we do get the stops him with the too many questions, which is all of my friends at me. Amanda, you have too many questions. What is with the questions? No, i think it's very, i think it's very different between you and your friends versus Ilya and Shane. Like for Ilya, this is like a really painful subject to talk about. yeah You're just autistic.
01:09:00
Speaker
yeah ah think I get you, Amanda. I get you. I've been that person in a situationship where the person is like, stop. Stop with the questions. I don't have answers. Like, shut up. But yeah, I like that here Shane is doing the same thing as Svetlana. He pushes a bit, opens the door. And then understand understands the boundary and backs off. And um he makes a joke and starts the banter again. So I think he's communicating like, if you ever want to talk about this again, i am here. Yes. But I also respect the fact that we are not only going to have these moments and always be like this raw and vulnerable. And sometimes we can just like let it go. Yes. Yes, for sure. Montreal goes home crap. Montreal goes home crying. ya Which we don't even get any ice time in the scene. It's just room to room. We don't even know no who won. It's just Ilya saying... Montreal wins. Montreal wins. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. no no
01:10:07
Speaker
Montreal wins? Montreal wins. I thought... Because Ilya is saying they owe him they get money if they win. And then when he comes back in, he's like, oh, no, no, no. You owe me money for every goal I scored. Well, no, no. Okay, so what he tells them before they get on the ice is he said, I will give you $1,000 for every goal that you score.
01:10:25
Speaker
So Montreal goes home crying. So then when he gets back in the, he was like, I will give us $1,000 for every goal you score. But then he's like, I'm the only one who scored goals tonight. You guys didn't do shits. So that to me implies that Boston lost and Montreal won. Because I also think the team is a little dejected. um And that's me using my context clues and my critical thinking and skills. Shut up. Was it super clear? No, i'm I'm referencing the person on the internet who told me that my PhD wasn't worth the paper that I was written on. This is not against you, Amanda. They told me that I didn't have critical thinking skills or ah wasn't able to read context clues. Yeah. Amanda, your count.
01:11:11
Speaker
How is your count? Because we haven't visited your count in a long time. Yes, this puts Shane up 5-2. Shane was up 4-2 before, but as far as we're shown, which we know, they play a lot more than what we know. We're only shown certain snippets. This puts Shane even further up where he is 5-2. Great. So after Montreal goes crying and all of this, that Lauren explained to us by being good reader, basically. He finally answers Alexei. That has been coming like crazy for days. And immediately the music stops. Everything goes silent. And then we fade black.
01:11:49
Speaker
We know shit is real. Yeah, it's bad. So because Alexei had been blowing up his phone when he was with Shane earlier, like he and Ilya is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever. oh I'll deal with it later. and But it's a little foreboding because the camera zooms and you're like, huh, what's that about? Is it Alexei after his usual shit, wanting money for drugs? Or is something wrong? And so now after the game, he's in this like jovial mood. He's been ignoring him because he doesn't want to get in that headspace before the game. So finally, it's after the game, he can pick up and be like, okay, what the fuck is going on? And shit hits the fan. So immediate title card for next day, Montreal POV. JJ, which is as we know, Laos' favorite. Laos' favorite. Wait, did you guys know that JJ was Lau's favorite?
01:12:32
Speaker
Oh my god, did you know? JJ tells us that Ilya didn't go to Nashville and Shane, very nonchalantly, very coolly, very chilly as you'd go to text anyone about anything, texts Ilya to check on him and he calls him that night and everything. It's very sweet. And then Ilya FaceTimes Shane and he's obsessed with the glasses. we This glasses thing, he we could see Ilya later, he's like tapping his face for the glasses. Oh my god, wait yes Lau. Wait, wait, wait. The way? I'm sorry, Dan and Phil are all over my notes because I i watched this reaction yesterday and Dan is like, slutty glasses. And then when Ilya tells Shane, like, put them back on and does the, like, tap tap, Dan literally said, a man of taste. but Enable that for us Like the the way that we get the two gays in the internet That had been so central to a lot of queer people journeys Saying that Ilya Rosanoff has statess taste because he likes Shane's glasses Yes It means like full circle we're We're healing This is community Yeah I love it Wear your glasses babe Wear your glasses more often
01:13:40
Speaker
We do get confirmation that Mr. Rosanoff is dead. And if you look closely, when Ilya is holding up his phone, the camera is in the middle of the phone, which is not iPhone behavior. Like it's like in like of the phone. It's I'm holding it up to you too, as if our listeners can see it. No, it's like in the middle. iPhones, like the cameras in this on the side, on the corner, right? And so this one, i don't know. I just thought it was a silly moment because if they're going to have iPhones, maybe he has a different Russia
Cultural Elements and Set Anecdotes
01:14:07
Speaker
phone. I don't know. But the camera was in the middle and I was like, that's weird. Also, also Amanda, did we clock the wind sound to tell us we're in Moscow?
01:14:18
Speaker
No, I did not clock that. I literally have in my notes like, Wind sounds for Moscow. Yeah. And then for the next scene, the next scene after like the morning of the funeral, you get Ilya like drinking whiskey or so or vodka. Yeah, vodka. And you can hear like,
01:14:40
Speaker
In the building. Inside of the building. do really love, they include in this, i ah this is just like shout out to the like props people, the people who are working on, on Heated Rivalry for having like not only Grigori's like medals, but also the black rye bread. Yeah. It's a traditional like Russian sourdough bread and it is used um like at funerals as a way to like break bread with the deceased and like give like the farewell gift to the person like as a way to connect them to their roots. So the black bread and the Russian vodka is like really important here. And I really love that they like had that piece of this as well. shout out to Danny Mota, who thought this was banana bread and was really confused about why there was banana bread on top of a glass of vodka. That's so funny. He was like, is this like a Russia thing that you go to a bar and you get like side banana bread? And I was screaming at my screen like,
01:15:55
Speaker
Have y'all heard the anecdote about the Russian grandma in this scene? The what? She thought Connor spoke Russian? Yeah, yeah, they're like, they're this scene and they're going to reset something and she starts like talking to him in Russian and he's like what I don't he's like oh I don't speak Russian I don't speak Russian and she was like this kid's good yeah yeah she's like like have someone else down the table translate it was a whole thing but i for me i was like wow damn right that's awesome damn this kid's good like what the hell we got going on over here like
01:16:27
Speaker
Just yet another moment. I also, i do love funeral Ilya. Like, I kind of love, like, buttoned up Ilya little bit, I guess. That's maybe just me. yeah And I love how he pretends to be chewing food. Yes. Yeah. I have something, like, I really love when people pretend to eat.
01:16:44
Speaker
in in in TV and movies. I don't know. There's something very satisfying about that. Oh, no He ate all of that pasta, by the way, in episode six. I know. I know. and And you can tell the difference between like real chewing and acting chewing. So then he he gets up because he can feel Alexei's eyes burning on him. like He's like, leave me alone. So he goes somewhere else and we have mirrors again, right? Yay! True reflections! Yeah. Yeah.
01:17:16
Speaker
ah Oh my God, absolutely.
Family Dynamics and Ilya's Protective Nature
01:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, when will it? And Alexei follows him and he's freaking out. And you can tell how abusive did this man has been to Ilya because of how they enter this dynamic physically. yeah like As soon as Alexei puts Ilya against the wall and is like, shh, shh. You can tell that this has been happening to Ilya since he was small. yeah like His reaction is just like so used to it. And Alexei knows that he only has to make a few gestures to convey the message. yeah And to me, this is like a very good portrayal of an abusive relationship that has gone on for years and years and years. yeah But then, so Ilja is not defending himself, but as soon as Svetlana enters the room and Alexei insults Svetlana,
01:18:05
Speaker
That's where ilia is like, yeah oh, no, no, no, this won't fly. And I love the representation of I suck at defending myself, but I'm so good at defending my friends. Like, yeah, I show up for my friends. Yeah, Ilya will take whatever slurs you hurl at him, but will not hear a tongue raised against that lot. No one will speak against our queen. Mm hmm. No, and I think that's like... it I mean, it shows that Ilya is very protective of the people that he loves. And Alexei has so many parallels to his father, right? They're both policemen. They both were abusive to their wives in some way, shape, or form. They both have children that they, you know, are not... interested in raising or being with or providing for in any shape or form. They both have their own vices. um And so I think like, I think this is also kind of the reason why Elia cuts him off is because he's like, you've taken so much from me, I'm not going to let you become like your father because that would be Like I see it almost as like like Ilya is trying to be like, like, I don't want you to become our father. So I'm doing you this like solid of not giving you this anymore.
01:19:19
Speaker
Like, it's almost like a, what is the word I'm trying to use? is Like a gift? I don't want to say gift, but like, it's very much like, to me, that's how it kind of reads. It's like, if you continue down this path, you will be in this same situation. and so like, you need to figure it out now.
01:19:36
Speaker
you know and so i'm i'm done like dealing with you as you are right now also he the fact that svetlana is one breaking the line like you have two things that break the dynamic that disempower alexei and empower ilia the first one is the death of the father so there's not this figure anymore that is the reason why ilia is trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship with his brother, but also Svetlana enters the room and Ilya can see the scene through her eyes. So he's no longer inside this routine that he has with this person because he can see how it looks from the outside. And so that's when he's like, I'm done with this. This makes no sense, you know? So I love that. I love that he's like, my niece is not at fault here. So trust fund for her. But you will leave me alone. Yes. And I will show you that I also have power. Yes. So shut up. And as soon as Alexei leaves, we get like something very similar to what we got at the restaurant between Rose and Shane. And it's this moment where Svetlana is like, I'm gonna open this box of Pandora and I'm gonna mention Jane. Yes. And she said and it sounds like Shane. but Yeah, exactly. yeah and and And I love how she has been like setting up this conversation in the last few scenes that we have seen them together. And she's like, Ilyia's like, I don't deserve you, which parallels her in the first episode saying you don't deserve me as a joke. And then she's like, you do.
01:21:13
Speaker
And I love you, but you don't want me. And I need you to see that I am safe for this kind of honesty. And that's where like Ilia gets it's's it's almost frame by frame. Like when Rose is saying goodbye to Shane after dinner, Svetlana is telling him is telling Ilia, like, I hope Jane knows how lucky he is. He uses like the pronounce he is. And she like tells Ilia like, wink, wink, I know what's going on. And also kisses him in the mouth the same as Rose did.
01:21:46
Speaker
And yeah I really love that parallel. I love this dynamic. I love him getting someone who's telling him, i am not going anywhere and I love you. So go and live your life because I'm going to still be here for you and I want you to be happy.
01:22:06
Speaker
And I love her for that. Yeah. Yeah, I also love the mirror from where Ilya says, i don't deserve you, which mirrors what she said in an earlier episode. ah But now she clocks that he doesn't love her like he loves Jane. So I've said it before. I think she'd been knew that Jane is Shane. But I do think that there was that parallel from an earlier episode of the like, I don't deserve you. Yeah. and I do love that the Svetlana rose parallels because I do think that, like i don't think I was thinking about this, we've said before that Marlo is like Ilya's Hayden, but I don't think Ilya has a Hayden. I don't think Marlo is that for Ilya. I think Marlo is Ilya's JJ. yeah Yeah, for
Language Barriers and Trust in Relationships
01:22:47
Speaker
sure. But he doesn't have a Hayden, but they both have this Rose and Svetlana mirror. yeah um and So I think that's going really important for Ilya later on. but This for him, just like how Rose is important for Shane, this is another important emotional relationship for him. i mean, maybe they're not as emotional, but it's still a close intimate relationship that he can have with someone that matters to him that is outside of Shane. Okay, so tunnel. Ilia asks Shane if he's alone and then they have this call. And we're gonna do a little experiment. We're gonna analyze the scene, of course, and Amanda's gonna get their points, and Lauren's gonna get their points. But first I want to do a little experiment, because this is the scene where Shane invites Ilya to express himself in his own language, Russian, even though Shane doesn't understand it, because he knows that sometimes, as we have talked before, it's easier to express yourself in your own language and not to translate your emotions into another language. So our experiment today is since neither Lauren nor Amanda understand Spanish, and I am convinced that even though they know some words in Spanish, they have no idea how to deal with Spanish from Bogotá. Yes. And my accent.
01:24:02
Speaker
I'm going to I'm going to just talk a bit. about something that I thought about the scene in Spanish. So those who do understand Spanish, you get the benefit of getting that little snippet of my thoughts in my own language. But also then Lauren and Amanda are going to tell us briefly how it feels to be in Shane's shoes.
01:24:24
Speaker
Okay. Are you ready? You're locked in? I'm ready. I'm locked in I'm going to put my Spanish from 11th grade to the test. I failed out of it, by the way. Okay.
01:24:36
Speaker
but okay Well, one the like most about this scene is that the are not saying all the time that she is listening, it's like, she speaks and... and... embar commentaisandra and... the and
01:25:27
Speaker
Okay, you didn't tell that you going to speed.
01:25:37
Speaker
okay you didn't tell me that you were gonna go like de no last feed ah That's just how about speak I speak every single day. um I got Hudson. I got Ilya. I got Hudson's expressions. I got Ilya. I got something about the music.
01:25:55
Speaker
You did say muy muy muy at one point. So that was very, very, very. i got No Intendo. We're talking about how Shane doesn't understand what Ilya is saying, but he's listening to it like it's music. Was that right? Yes. yeah Yeah.
01:26:07
Speaker
Oh, yay! Moimian! Moimian! And that's all I got. That's all I got. So... And I think is that's super similar to what Shane is experiencing because he also gets like names. Yes. Like Svetlana. Svetlana? Who?
01:26:21
Speaker
Who? Pardon? Yes. No, i I think like, I think they both kind of have like a very like musical quality to like language, like listening to people speak in like other languages. So like, I think there is like that part to it. I've also seen like a bunch of people on the internet being like, I would have Google translated what Ilya said. And I was like, That is not the point of this scene. No, no, no, no. That's not the point of this scene at all. Like, first of all, one, have a little fucking trust in your partner. Two, like, it's very toxic for you to be like, oh, hey, I'm going to give you this opportunity to say things in your language. And then, im by the way, I'm going to go translate it. Like, and that in the book is like Ilias Fierce that Shane goes to translate it. But like, don't, first of all, don't do that. But like, second of all, like, like we've talked about before on the pod, like, like knowing how to express yourself and like explain yourself in so many different languages is very hard. It's very difficult to do. It's very like,
01:27:18
Speaker
like emotionally, physically, like mentally taxing. And so like to take that trust that a person puts in you and then to immediately be like, I'm going to Google Translate like this. Like that's so upsetting. Like it's almost how upset I get when my like, like when Meta or like Apple or whatever auto translates Bad Bunny's music. And I'm like, no, I like listening to it in Spanish. Like, i like listening to it and like i hate don't tell me what titi me pregunto is about i know what titi me pregunto is about because i know a little bit of spanish but like there is like beauty in experiencing cultures in their like original supposed to be forms you know like they're like it is it is so western centric to be like i'm gonna go google translate like this or be like I need to know what they're saying. Like, no, you don't. Let your nail tech ladies talk about you in another language, okay? You probably need to oil your cuticles more.
01:28:19
Speaker
absolutely Well, thank you for doing this with me. yeah No, that was fun. yeah That was fun. Thank you thank you for doing that. That was really cool. like it I i feel like I'm so accustomed to but how both of you speak and your language patterns just for one, being friends a long time, but also editing so much and so much over the past like month and some that like i could, even on ah on a first listen to that, I could tell that it is so different from how you not or from how you speak to me on and on on a day-to-day basis. And so I can see that it's...
01:28:49
Speaker
I've heard people say it before, but I understand it when I hear other people speak their languages. Like you have a different personality. I think yeah one of our fan mail people put it in in an earlier episode. You have like a different personality. And I think that this little experiment kind of highlighted that because like you were able to talk a lot quicker and a lot smoother than other. Whereas English, you're still finding all of the words. And it's it's not that's not jab at you. That's just a matter of the fact of like, it's so much easier. It's your fourth language. Yeah. It's victim it's literally your fourth language. Yeah.
01:29:22
Speaker
Of course, I'm not as ah upset and emotionally vulnerable as Ilya was in his moment, but I... i could like I could feel my alertness going. I was, of course, very comfortable. So I love this literal experiment. It ah occurred to me at 2 a.m. Yes. No, was so fun. um Spanish is so fun. It's just different. It's a whole thing. I love linguistics. and i There's a parallel very close parallel universe where I studied language and linguistics instead.
01:29:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's like, and there's so many parts of Ilya's speech that like, I'm glad we get to know as a viewer, like give him so much much depth and like so much backgrounding to his story. Like, especially the part where he's like, like, I know that Alexi and my father hate me. And like, the part where he says, like, I made sure that my father was buried next to his parents, Like, to show that, like, Ilya is so much more aligned with his mother and that, like, her death, even though, like, Alexei and his father hated her mother, had such, like, implications on Ilya's life and how he was treated by those people for so long. I kind of wonder if Alexei is also, like, if Alexei is ah a half-brother if he's a full-brother,
01:30:42
Speaker
Because to me, like, it reads a little bit like Alexei is not Ilya's full brother. um Like, a little bit of, like, context clues from that scene. Maybe Alexei, like, was never really, like, um aligned with Irina in certain ways. Maybe Alexei was very, like, jealous of the way that um you know, his father, like, took care of Ilya's hockey career in a way. But I think it also shows, like, it gives us depth about Irina and about her relationship with Ilya's father and her other potential son. So I think it's, like, it's ah it's it gives us so much more about Ilya and, like, all of the hardships that we know that he's been going through with these episodes, but we haven't been able to put the words to it.
01:31:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. I also hope that we can get another Russian monologue in season two, potentially with Galena, if you know, you know, but I think it would be really cool to get a parallel repeat of this, even if it's just as like a check in of where Ilya is at emotionally, because Shane can do that with his family or with his friends or whatever. But I think if Ilya could do this again in this way, i i think would be really incredible. And they're both crying, my boys. And in just the actual like language of it all of the, but not like I love you and all love is you, Paramore, I'm so in love with you and I don't know what to do about it. Like this is, oh my God. So I'm gonna recommend everyone check out We Are All Teen Girls by Olivia Gatwood. I love her spoken word best but on Button Poetry, but if you wanna look up and read it yourself, that is good too. But I love the way that she performs it. But this is so to me this was so giving like we are all teen girls because that is so it's just like I love you so much and my emotions are bigger than myself and I don't know what to do about And that every everything everything is just so new. And it's so hard but then they're immediately back to sex jokes and 180 with the I wish you were here right now like they're so back and forth. And i think this goes to show that like, even though they've like made, they've had like so much growth, even over the course of this episode, that like, they still don't exactly know how to
Communication Challenges and Rituals in Hockey
01:33:01
Speaker
communicate with one another. And this is something that we're going to see come up again and again in the long game and is an issue like throughout that. Like they, even though they've made so many strides, they've really come together. They are no longer this weird little situationship kind of scenario that they still don't know how to communicate with one another
01:33:19
Speaker
beyond their initial ways of communicating with one another. Like that is, it's very much like they're a little set in their ways in some ways. Also, Shane is in a stairwell.
01:33:31
Speaker
Girl, why? It's so echoey in stairwells. Like why? i feel like if I'm taking a phone call, a stairwell is my last place that I'm going. Why you, it's so echoey. They're going to hear you across the whole freaking thing. And you're like so being emotional. But he's not really saying anything. I get it yes, but i just, for me, it just gave me such a fear, and, like, and it like I had like such anxiety of, like, but someone, anyone could come down, and it's, you're gonna, I don't know, for me, it was just, like, I would not take a phone call there, like, there's gonna be an echo, imagine you put it on speakerphone, and then it's just the reverb, I was just, like, for me, i was, like, a stairwell is not it, you need a carpeted hallway, maybe, like, a a secret, uh, not a secret, but, like, a a closeted, like, conference room, a closet in the gym they need to go in a closet amanda we've just done so much work to get out of the closet babe no i i think like i don't know like i think it's fine that they're at a stairwell like i shane's not really saying anything so i'm not i don't think he's really worried about like if he's echoing or not you know like i think he's just trying to find a private place and that happens to be the private place I suppose. I still disagree, but you do you, boo. for shane Then we get one week later, tv announcer setting. So one week later, that means we're still in spring, probably like probably March at this point. cause's Yeah, they're making um they're talking about making a playoff push. So this is like probably like mid-March at least. Yeah, i and this is when we know that Ilya's dad passing is public knowledge. We get Holonov meeting up at Center Ice, confirming plans for later that night. And I love when hockey players bonk helmets. It's so cute because, oh, Shane is like telling Hayden or whoever, like, oh, I was offering my kenalysis and he's such an asshole, whatever. And they bonk helmets and it's so cute. They just like, dink, dink. Like, I just, they're like Barbies where you just like shove their heads together, you know?
01:35:28
Speaker
Like, it's so dumb. um But in, like, an acuteness aggression way, I don't know. I feel a certain way whenever they bonk helmets. I really love it. No, okay. But we all know that, I mean, yes, hockey players do bank, like, bonk helmets against one another. um but hockey players will... um slap each other on the ass. um They do do a lot of like tapping with their sticks against like the back of their legs, which is like a classic hockey thing or like the back of their, like even taking their stick and hitting other people on their ass. I believe it's it's either the Washington Capitals or the Carolina Hurricanes. Before they go out on the ice, one of the guys like gets down his hands and knees and the other like hockey players will walk him like a dog before the beginning of every time they get on the ice for the game.
01:36:16
Speaker
Okay. That's kinky as fuck. That's kinky as fuck. You're trying to tell me how players aren't gay? But yeah usually usually the bonking of the helmets is reserved for the goalie when the goalie is at the end of the game. You go and if your team wins, you bonk the goalie's helmet as a thank you.
01:36:33
Speaker
They do have like this little, they're like facing off, they have a cute smile, they a moment to themselves. They're in their own little world, just enjoying their moment. Just like, la la la, might as well be fields and butterflies. And then boom, reality check. Just kidding, it's Marlo.
01:36:48
Speaker
No, bro, okay. Homeboy is down. this This pisses me off so much because Shane Hollander, the fucking hockey hockey bro that you are, the hockey IQ that you have, and you're skating through the neutral zone not looking?
01:37:06
Speaker
Like, are you fucking stupid? Like... Bro, bro, bro. Like constantly. Love will make you stupid. Love will make you stupid. I guess so. It's like one of the things that hockey players like usually when they get hit or when something happens is because they're not keeping their head up.
01:37:25
Speaker
Like. you're really not supposed to be looking at the ground and looking where you're skating. Like hockey hockey is a very instinctive game. You're not supposed to be looking at like your feet and where you're skating and where the puck is. You are supposed to be looking. Your head is supposed to be on a swivel. You're supposed to be looking at everyone else. And so the fact that like Shane makes like the number one hockey sin of looking down or looking back over his shoulder while he's skating through the neutral zone, which gets like some of the biggest amount of attention in a game, bro, i was I was like, you fucking, of course you got injured.
01:37:56
Speaker
Like that was so stupid. And it's literally 25 seconds into the game. It's nuts. We instantly go to the the TV framework. So we like are not on the ice anymore. Well, at least for a minute. Like Hayden instantly goes to Marlow to throw hands. Oh, absolutely. Which like the rest of the metros should have been there too. They should have either been throwing hands or Shane's head. They know to let the paramedics do their job. But they should have been throwing hands at Marlo. They're just like hanging out. But Ilya is right there for his mans. Like, oh my god. It's just right at the start of the game. It's so sad. Yeah, and the TV announcers write it off. It's like, ah oh he has so much admiration for him and but blah, blah, blah. But we know. Yeah, one thing that I was really sad about like that we didn't get, um because it's a line in the book. It says, like, Ilya, they can see us. which is Shane telling Ilya to like step away because he's like, Ilya, they can see us, like get away from me basically kind of. But I also think that this scene, like you're in Shane's point of view, right?
01:38:52
Speaker
And so you're like drifting in and out of consciousness during this happening. And so you don't know exactly what Ilya is saying to Shane or what Shane is saying to Ilya. It's all kind of like very cut up and very jumpy. But we learn in the long game, like because Shane and Ilya go back and watch this hit I think at some point together um and Shane's like how did they not know so I'm wondering if like during the long game or during next season we get more of Ilya's POV where we get the line like Ilya they can see us Because I think that is like a very, like for Shane to be like so petrified, even though he's like very injured, he just got injured
Privacy, Intimacy, and Personal Growth
01:39:34
Speaker
on the ice. He has someone who's like there trying to care for him. And he's like, we can't let them see like, even still, like it is, it is instinctual for Shane at this point. Yeah. And I wanted to...
01:39:45
Speaker
Quickly, like shout out to um the book Game Changers, because this also happens with Kip and Scott, but Kip is watching the game with his his dad at the rink, right? And that's when Kip's dad clocks that Kip is in love with Scott, because he reacts in a way that is so raw and real that he later tells Kip, like, that's where that's what I knew. And that's why, of course, Kip's father is... way smarter than the commentators of this game saying like there's a lot of admiration here which we have decided to say is the and they were roommates and they were roommate version of this episode but yeah of course like when when we revisit this hopefully next season and Shane is like how did nobody know Kip's father knew
01:40:41
Speaker
He plugged up. Kip's dad knew. Well, Mr. Kip is smarter than the average bear, so. And T. And T. The paramedics do not understand him calling for his boif. Not at all. So we get to the hospital. Shane is so happy to see Ilya. He's high as fuck. This is awesome. This is Shane now.
01:40:59
Speaker
Hollander has relaxed in his entire life. They love each other so freaking much. Can I i put just the accurate or like the the first initial of every word? Can i recite this? I actually did it today at lunch. i heard our listeners, I was talking earlier before we started recording that at lunch today, some people at my work were talking about heated rivalry. And I was like, will you come to my cottage? I recited the whole thing.
01:41:21
Speaker
ah alia will you come to my cottage this summer don't go to russia come to my house we'll have so much fun it's so private no one will know we can have a week or even two we'd be completely alone together oh no. The nurse and he goes, Oh no.
01:41:45
Speaker
oh no And then does like this See you next season Thank you for visiting Yes, we are returned to our roots We get to see you next season Because they hadn't been doing that in so long And we finally get it again And poor Ilia is like That poor boy didn't have a single minute of sleep the night before And Connor's breathing act Like the way he's like against the wall, like breathing and he he's like sighing so much. And then it's Hollander, you know, you know, I can do that. And he he really he thought he was losing shame and the way he caresses his face and all that. I'm just like and then I just I'm a sucker for him, for Ilya doing shh, shh, shh.
01:42:35
Speaker
Yeah. As he leaves the room. ah Yeah, yeah. I just, I just melt every time I see this scene. Yeah, I recently read this fic called Concussion Protocol, and it's ah the flip of this where Ilya gets injured and he stays with Shane in Montreal. It's awesome! i so I was sick this past weekend, and i so I spent like three whole days, like from Thursday at 5pm when I got home till this morning at eight a m when I had to leave for work. I spent basically that whole time horizontally with on my couch or on my bed, and I was i swallowed this fic. It was awesome. I recommend it so much on AO3. And you had nothing to edit.
01:43:15
Speaker
i Yeah, I had nothing to edit too because we were caught up on pod stuff. So it was so much fun. i recommend it. It's called Concussion Protocol. Check it out. But it is a flip of this. And Shane has to take care of Ilya. And it's the whole thing with the parents. And he's like crying. It's way more dramatic than this. It's not just a simple overnight in the hospital and he's fine. But it is it's way more serious. Ilya is out for like the rest of the season and most of the next one. But it's really good. And the writing is phenomenal. And I recommend it.
01:43:41
Speaker
So in the book, Heat of Ravelry, Ilya is actually like planning to break up with Shane that night. um Like to go to his house and break up with him. um And then Shane gets injured. And you know what? I understand. I understand this because coincidentally at like the same time in my life that these two are going through this in their life. ah i um was in a long distance relationship with my like first real boyfriend and he was trying to break up with me because he was actually cheating on me with somebody else. But I got bit in the face by a dog and so he couldn't break up with me.
01:44:22
Speaker
um And you know what? I feel that. But then also I didn't have like a really like, like he didn't have like a big come to Jesus moment like Ilya has in this next scene. And so we are, you know, we never got back together, which, you know, I don't think, I don't think if we got back, I think if we got back together, I wouldn't have been as gay as I am. So here we are. Hell yeah.
01:44:45
Speaker
So low key shout out to that, but also like, I'm glad you're okay. and Yeah, no, I cannot be around certain types of dogs anymore. It's really, it's really good time. That was also like 2017 to 2018. Like that year of my life, like starting my master's degree, I like got hit by a car. I like moved into my first apartment with a roommate that was like it issues. I got bit in the face by a Wow. Like, that whole year of my life, like, from September 2017 to, like, May 2018 was a mess. It was a disaster.
01:45:19
Speaker
You know what? Same. Same. You know what? Hashtag growth. For other reasons, but same. Hashtag on God. Hashtag character development. Hashtag the lore. Real. Real. So, like Ilya, I grew. i grew from my horrible, horrible summer 2017 moments into something even better in 2018 and forever on. And like Ilya, I got gayer.
01:45:43
Speaker
so So true. True story. We love to see you it. cameme that well You know who also grew? Shane and Rose's relationship. They're no longer dating, but they're good friends now. And she's calling him like a good friend and checking on him.
01:46:01
Speaker
and asking if he's jerking off. As any good friend should. Yes, ask if he's jerking off Ebates. I love this scene with Rose because Rose is like, I'm never gonna tell anyone that you're gay. And then immediately is having like an the phone. She's on speakerphone. In front of me.
01:46:21
Speaker
A makeup artist. Literally, my notes say, is she like she's not wearing earpods or something? then Dan and Phil were were watching this scene. And of course, I'm obsessed about them today. and They're like makeup artists and people that get you like groom you before shows or filming. Yes. They know everything. like They have all the tea. And I loved it because I was like,
01:46:46
Speaker
oh yeah this person doesn't count not because they don't count as a person but because they know right and also they've signed ndas of the ass so like they're not they're not discussing yeah any of this and also like shout out to the actor or actor act person who plays rose's makeup artist is another trans actor we love to see that we love their big lesbian secret how they're both like i wish we could date women honestly so funny well i i took that as as rose being like oh my big lesbian secret and the makeup artist gives her a look and said and rose is like i wish and the artist is like same took that to mean the artist was like would have been into rose if she was a lesbian like i wish you were a lesbian the artist was saying artist was saying i wish i was a lesbian i wish i liked women
01:47:36
Speaker
oh well and also rose is getting painted blue and says that the movie she's making makes no sense and this is definitely and i'm living for it didn't make any fucking sense yeah i saw someone say that is she supposed to be like jennifer lawrence or something and i was like la mal yeah she's supposed to be jennifer lawrence in the x-men films and this is supposed to be specifically right referencing dark phoenix the movie I miss being kidnapped. Yeah. tea, same. I love that for Ilya and Shane could kidnap me anytime. Take me to the cottage. I'm ready.
01:48:05
Speaker
Oh, well, back to Ilya and Shane. She can go to
Gender Roles and Personal Choices in Sports
01:48:08
Speaker
the cottage. Shane goes back inside and Yuna says his ribs are hurt. We're putting a pin in that. Yuna is so smart and knows ball and also his ribs are hurt. and also can we talk about hollinger's fuckery of gender i didn't know if i this was like corn plating or not um if you know what means i can explain that too but like you know was watching sports with the kid while david cooks and i was like yes feminism or whatever but also literally not she's his manager and everyone should know how to cook but i did think it was interesting that david seems to be bit of a homemaker i know i love that dynamic i love that dynamic and we need more of that dynamic on television so And also taking care of the home is also real job. So even if he was a stay-at-home dad, he has a real job. Show us that invisible labor, Jacob Tierney. Yeah. Good for Scott Hunter. It's his year. And David said she's a witch.
01:48:55
Speaker
Okay. Did y'all click that Shane tries to get his parents to hate Ilya less? Yes. was like, good luck, buddy. was like, ah no, we don't hate him. He came and visited me in the hospital. Also, I'm in love with him and i've seen his penis multiple times. Tasted it, Avin.
01:49:09
Speaker
I've tasted it. It's been in my body.
01:49:14
Speaker
They're texting and we get Ilio boring count number seven. Number seven, lucky number seven. That's awesome. wow And then we get one week later, everyone's in the same spot, more or less. Was which Yuna right? Shane hates lying and Yuna knows he's not a liar. He tells Shane that earlier, but he's easily lying to Yuna now about who he's texting. And I thought that that was really sad. Ilya is watching with Svetlana and a couple others, but everyone's really quiet.
01:49:43
Speaker
And Ilya's random Russian friends that actually are real Russians, but we can't pay them enough to actually speak in the television show. Really? Is that what that is? Yeah. No, they like were not allowed to speak because we don't have enough money to pay for them.
01:50:00
Speaker
It's like how we like never see Hayden's children because we don't have enough money to cast. Well, there's continuity problems with that. But yes, fair. Also that too. But you know. Yeah, no, Ilya is hanging out with his random friends. Svetlana is packing to go to Russia, and Ilya is giving her some things to take to his niece in Russia. Because he's not going Yeah, because he's not going back, because he's going to the cottage. But we don't know that yet. We don't know that yet.
01:50:25
Speaker
Well, not for another minute or so, because the Admirals win. Baby, we get Scott Hunter. We cut from the TV to the ice where they're celebrating. Kip's crying. We're like, oh my god, it's the people from like a few episodes
Iconic On-Ice Moments and Representation
01:50:40
Speaker
ago. Wait, they came back? We know that. I know that guy. my god, they came back. That was important. we would We don't skip the skip episode. Who are these weird people? And Vaughn takes the cup.
01:50:48
Speaker
And the song starts playing, like the song. And there's something about the lyrics with Sunshine. Yeah. Yeah. And he turns to Kip and it's this whole thing. And Lau is showing us her notes that we can post online with her little drawings. Eyes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Sunshine.
01:51:07
Speaker
Yes. Because everyone deserves sunshine. It's true. It's true. Svetlana, come back. You must witness queer history because she walked away. There's too much confusion, but Scott brings Kip into the sunshine, into the spotlight, and kisses him there center ice. In our notes, I wrote, skip kiss. And the crowd goes wild. People are cheering for this. Everybody so happy. And so it's like, the commentators, say like this is not something you see right but then they're also like the crowd's going wild for scott hunter good for scott hunter like it's not just scott hunter kissing his boyfriend on the ice in front of everyone after he won the stanley cup it is it's everyone going it's everyone going nuts and we get ilia stepping to the other room the music pausing shane picking up the phone and i'm coming to the couch coming to the couch But also someone pointed out that in the book, if you see my diagram, I have a tornado. And in the book, Ilia describes the way he felt while watching this as if a tornado had like uprooted his life. Like this changed everything for him. And if you see the movement of the camera, you do see sort of like
01:52:21
Speaker
a circular yeah moment there that is like some like some sort of vertigo that is communicating to you. yeah like Everyone is losing ground for a second and recalculating life.
01:52:36
Speaker
This changes the game. They are the game changers. Yeah. They are the game changers. I also love how this scene is framed out because as it's spinning, you get like Shane and Ilya's POV. So it almost feels like they are also spinning with Scott and Kip. And that you could spinning was the word that i was looking up that you could like almost replace them with Scott and Kip throughout this scene. And that is like, that's really beautiful. I love David like clocking Shane getting up and being like so shocked about this and like being like, there's something going on here. Well, because he's a team captain, immediately people are going to start trying to talk to him to be like, oh my god, what's going on? But like their mouths are open. It's so chaos. It's so chaos. And I love it. And this is such the quintessential skip song. And then it's so much chaos in this such like such a small scene, but it ends with this moment that like,
01:53:34
Speaker
is like so solidifying it like it brings us back down to earth it like ends the tornado it is like i am coming to the cottage i have made the decision it's grounded it's like no matter what happens next like obviously it's a romance so we're gonna have a happily ever after but like no matter what happens next we're going to be okay and i really i really love this episode yeah this this episode episode healed healed me like years and years of like a lot of stuff and suddenly i'm i'm fine and Last time, I promise that I bring Dan and Phil on. We're gonna have Dan and Phil count for this episode. yeah The way they stop like at the end of the episode and they're like, you can see what it meant for them as well to watch this and to see this represented in in TV.
01:54:19
Speaker
And they later go on and do the analysis and talk about it and say, like, this is so important for people, representation. But their faces while this is happening is very similar to the faces of the characters while they're watching Scott and Kev kiss. So that was so precious. And I love that we all collectively have the same reaction to this scene even Even those of us who already knew what was going to happen because we had read the book And even those of us who are reheating this moment, we still get the the experience and I love it.
01:54:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's truly a great moment. It's so iconic. It's so, yeah, it's just so quintessential. And again, I think this is part of why this episode is rated so highly. It's why this series is so appealing to so many people. i think it's a really great call. fallback moment, even if the timelines do get a little wonky, I do think this is a great way to like really engage the audience and be like, Oh, you remember that thing that we talked about, like a few episodes ago, what's coming back now. And this is how it is fitting into the whole rest of the series and how it's going to flip everything on its head and I think this is part of why it makes it so addicting because immediately you want to go back and rewatch and be like oh my god I have this new information now I need to go back and see it through this whole new lens um and I think that that goes back to our main idea here of why is it so
01:55:40
Speaker
fascinating why are people so into it and i think that this is part of it is like the music the cinematography the engagement how this is the idea of like this is such a public sport and so all of the players and characters can kind of interface both from the ice on the ice from the audience that sort of thing i think that it makes for really beautiful storytelling and and really conveys this uh awesome narrative so those are all of our lovely thoughts on i'll believe in anything the fifth episode of heated rivalry To kind of finish up, we are going to turn now to our fan mail. Reminder, if you would like to submit fan mail, you can do that on any of our socials or to our email, which is srspod at gmail.com.
Fashion and Identity: Fan Mail Insights
01:56:22
Speaker
We would love for you to send us voice memos, but you also can just send us text notes or any like commentary that you want to have on episode topics or the show overall or any of the media surrounding it. This fan mail comes to us from one of my students, Donna, this week. So we're going to let her take it away.
01:56:50
Speaker
Hi everyone, I'm a huge fan of the pod, so I just wanted to come on and say a few things specifically about Shane's clothes, because I know you guys have talked a little bit about it before with his tuxedo and his clothes folding, you know, but I think it's like a really big part of himself, and it's something that helps him appraise what type of situations he's in, so so for example, with the tuxedos,
01:57:14
Speaker
Wearing a tuxedo tells him, I'm hockey player Shane. I'm perfect son Shane. I'm publicity Shane. So we can't be doing this right now because that's who I have to be. But then eventually, ah in this episode, he gets a personal stylist who's giving him more clothes because he says he's sick of wearing athletic clothes all the time. And that's basically him saying he's sick ah of being this one-sided hockey player Shane. And he wants to incorporate more things into his identity. Because, I mean, you have all mentioned this before, but it really rings true that if you've ever met a hockey player or just any professional athlete, even just college level, it is intense. And it's it really takes up just all of who they are. It's difficult for them to, like, express stuff beyond that. So Shane wants to get there, and he wants to bring his, like, you know, his love for Ilya and his feelings about, like, all of that into who he is, but it's really difficult for him. So saying, like, oh, he wants to wear non-athletic clothes, that's him saying, like, he wants to embrace this part of his identity and bring it up to be on, like, equal footing as hockey. So that's just something I noticed. And I'm really curious to see what you guys think, because i do think like since Shane experiences everything so acutely, like choosing what he wears, that's a huge decision for him.
01:58:35
Speaker
And so it really shows where his mind's at throughout the show. So thank you so much. You guys are so awesome. I love listening to the pod every week and I'd love to hear what you think about this.
01:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, I just, first of all, I want to say, Lauren, you have amazing and brilliant students. True. And so true. I love, because I didn't pick up on this. And it's not to say, like, if I didn't pick on this, you're brilliant. But...
01:59:07
Speaker
It surprised me. like I wasn't expecting that to be it. like when When you told us like what it was about, yeah I imagined something different. And suddenly I'm like, re and i I heard it before I did my rewatch for episode five. So I was like, wow, this changes so many things for me. yeah And I'm so happy.
01:59:29
Speaker
So I just want to say thank you because this made my real hit of the episode so much better. yeah like i enjoyed that scene at the bar significantly more and I didn't think that was possible. So kudos to you. Amazing. um So Donna and I have been talking because she's been giving me notes about on like she's been listening to the pod and then giving me notes, which I think is super cute and I love. um
02:00:00
Speaker
And so she had made a comment like a week and a half ago about when we were talking about um in the first episode where Shane's wearing a tuxedo. and they're on the rooftop and Shane's like we're both wearing tuxedos and so that kind of just like put a little like note into my brain about how like Shane is like the clothes that he wears throughout the show and how it like helps him differentiate like different parts of his personality and we've even talked about it before like I think we talked about it in the Rose episode where we were saying that like Shane um was becoming like more uncovered as he like got a little bit older that in certain scenes he's maybe a little more covered up because he's not really like comfortable with the situation that he's in even though it is like related to hockey in some way shape or form. And so I think that, yeah, this is like definitely a moment when he kind of gets the stylist. I feel like it's really a step into like him as a queer person and like coming out as a queer person. And so I think that like it is going to be really interesting to see the ways that Shane uses fashion kind the future to do this it kind of calls back to. um the fan fiction that I read that I to get into heated rivalry or to get into hockey and they kind of have commentary about one of the main characters after he comes out or after he's outed actually and they make like commentary about his clothes as a gay man and like kind of a very like
02:01:38
Speaker
gross and like oppressive way um and so i think that's also going to be a very interesting parallel as we explore more of shane's gay identity in the next series in the long game and like how other people perceive his fashion and his understanding of clothing. Yeah, absolutely.
02:01:58
Speaker
First of all, thank you, Donna, for listening and for the notes. That's that's very sweet. We really appreciate that, the attention to detail. i I feel like the first time I kind of picked up on the clothes was what we're saying, like where he's running with Hayden and he's is wearing less and less clothes and then like workout clothes. And then Yeah.
02:02:19
Speaker
as if he's just kind of like trying to be i mean he is one of the guys but he's just like really into the hockey mindset really into the athlete not giving much consideration of who he is outside of that And I definitely think there's something to be said of the closet aspect of it all. This is him, l LOL, coming out of the closet, but he, you know, um in clothes. But I do think there's the deeper analysis with like something to be said about what you were saying, Lauren, about queer men and and they're like how they are perceived or how they portray themselves and there's a thing about being effeminate or like back in the two thousand s with like a metrosexual like um or being too flamboyant like there's definitely i think men's fashion and what men wear can be so gendered and critical because all the time like we see like golden globes or whatever where there's like a theme and it's the same men and the same um suits just like maybe they have a sparkly tie or something and it's never anything fun you know and i want to see something fun and unique out of people and sometimes they wear a skirt and we're like oh wow it's a whole scandal but like women will wear all these different things and that's the attention and i'm like okay well i don't i think there's just a double standard in fashion and i see i think this is something that shane can be a bit more dressed up and it doesn't have to be tied to his sexuality but absolutely This is related to his sexuality, and it's not that he is dressing more flamboyantly. It's that he is paying more attention to himself internally and externally. like It's in the same episode we learn he has a stylist that he has this emotional coming out to Ilya, which Ilya is like, why is it a big deal? Because Ilya doesn't think it's a big deal. He already knows who he is and how he dresses. Shane doesn't. Shane was just getting day to day thinking about the next game thinking about the cottage and and whenever he would see Ilya. It was never that serious for Shane but all of a sudden it's huge for Shane.
02:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think this even plays into like how we're talking about like Hudson and Connor's style and how they are being dressed or not dressed and how they are being perceived or not perceived in many different ways. I'm just thinking about like Hudson's hudson doing the lunar new year party in new york which was also like his little birthday celebration and the ways that he like plays with gender and color and jewelry because he is like very comfortable with that whereas connor has like described his style as like more plain which is not necessarily like taken in his photo shoots like i'm thinking specifically about the photo shoot where he's on the beach in the Gucci swimsuit and he's also got like the um like the singlet and the vintage red shorts on. I can't remember what magazine that was for, but like how like people perceive things about personality about Connor from there. When in reality, when you see like Connor doing interviews or like out in public, he's like very much more of a plain dresser. And so clothes are definitely like a message and like how we portray ourselves to other people.
02:05:22
Speaker
And so I think this is like a very interesting like thing to focus on. Also, um to all of the straight men that have stolen lesbian style, please give it back. I keep thinking you all are mask lesbians and then you're not and it's upsetting. Or even other enbies. And you know what? Everybody needs to give black people back their style because let's be real. So true. Let's be real. The real tastemakers are black people. Just like Gen Z slang taken from AAVE. I literally saw a thread the other day and it was like, what's your favorite Gen Z slang that's not AAVE? And no one could name Gen Z slang that wasn't And AAVE for all you listeners is African-American vernacular English. It's not slang, babe. It's a dialect. So yeah. Thank you, Donna, for this very insightful voice memo. I look forward to hearing more notes from you always in the future. And yeah, if you're interested in sending us in fan mail, please do so. My students are Lauren's students. Please send me. We don't promise bonus points for class, but it would be great to hear from you. No, not say that. You will not be. My previous students, text me. I was saying we won't give you any extra points. I do not. No, no, no, But being ethically responsible. We would love to... Yeah, we would love to hear from you because we always love to hear that our students are smart and like to do close reading. That would make me so happy.
02:06:58
Speaker
My previous students are like bug and plant people, which they'd be interested in heated rivalry, but not all of them are close readers. They are just here. Get them to talk about the loon call and how it's fake. Get them to talk about the bugs in the background and how They really wouldn't have their doors open on the cottage like that because they would have mosquitoes in their house. It's so true. That bothers me. They leave the car doors open and i'll bring it up in the next episode, but they leave car doors open and leave all the doors open open. And I'm like, what are you doing? It is summer. Which I have a whole other thing where you're kids, whatever. there were mosquitoes during the filming.
02:07:31
Speaker
And that's why we get these very funny photos of Connor and and Hudson in like this mesh jumpsuit. Not very funny. Very hot. Very hot photos. Yeah. And funny. i They're also funny.
02:07:46
Speaker
I did have a running bit with one of my students slash friends. i called him one of my students. He's actually one of my close friends. Anytime the cicadas were like really loud in the summer, we would look at each other and go loudest cicada in the world.
02:07:59
Speaker
I don't remember where it started from, but it's really funny. But every time I hear it like in audio sound, I'm like, loudest cicada in world. Bro, I wish. In my next one, either let me be reincarnated as a cicada or let me be reincarnated as a cat.
02:08:13
Speaker
The cicada, because I want to only come out of the ground every 17 years. Amazing. I want to sit in and a tree and scream. I want to fuck. And then I want to die. Okay.
02:08:25
Speaker
Like perfect life, perfect life. And if I'm not a cicada, then I would like to be the cat of um some millennial who has no children and devotes all of their time, money and resources like Kuri, like Kuri on the bed in the background of Lau's video to me.
02:08:43
Speaker
just being happy and healthy and sitting in a window or chasing birds like that's that's all i need in my next life please and thank you i think i have done enough car karmic retribution this lifetime please in the next one let me be a cat or a cicada please please amanda your buck people could talk about mating rituals and No, and exactly. so next week on Since Rookie Season, we'll be talking bug mating rituals in the Canadian wilderness.
02:09:16
Speaker
And the loon. And the common loon, which is also known as the three of us. My best friend has been sending me a bunch of bird videos recently, like bird TikToks and stuff. And one of them was the loon. And I was like, oh, my God, stupid Canadian wolf bird. And he was like, LMAO is very funny. Wait, the hockey, the women's hockey team at the Olympics, someone named them loon and they named the loon wolf bird. Yes.
02:09:43
Speaker
Yes. That and the Canadian ice skating team uploaded like this ah TikTok when they were getting on the plane to go to Italy. Like, we're going to the cottage. No. Yeah, did see that. The US Paralympics hockey team, they released a video called Seated Rivalry and put it to the Maneater edit of sled hockey, which I think is perfect marketing. So... We're all, and like, when Amanda was telling like the story at the beginning of the episode about them encountering this person on the plane, like, that just shows that this is like, I'm not crazy. Like, this show has broken containment. I am not the only insane one here. um And I love that for us. I also hate that for us. But I love that for us. You know. Yeah.
02:10:32
Speaker
All right. As in Spanish, unas por otras. It means you win some, you lose some. Oh. I always say por no los dos. Me too. do say qué los dos. Oh, yeah. But that's when you want both options. Me, Hudson, and Connor? Por qué no los dos? May I introduce you? Unas por otras. Unas por otras is when you have, like, one good thing, but it comes with the secret bad thing. So you know that in order to get the good thing, you have to deal with the bad thing. Also Connor or Hudson.
02:11:07
Speaker
While we are talking about some housekeeping stuff, I did want to shout out our show notes. um I don't know if have noticed, but after the first couple episodes, we started putting a lot more effort into our show notes. There's a lot of references in there and citations, further readings. um If we reference like a thread or tweet or a specific thing in our episode or our show, we will link it there. um Lauren has so graciously helped collect a lot of further readings. There was that epistemology of the closet, I think it was. Mm-hmm. Other scholarly readings are all like free access. There's different journal article or different articles on um hockey players that we mentioned. i don't know if it was like Conor Bedard different people that we've mentioned. There was that hockey fight, the goalie hockey fight that I mentioned of the highlighter versus bluey. There's a clip of that in our show ah notes. So this is just Haitian Canada as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A lot of Haitian history and and politics breakdowns in there. So this is just an ode and a love note to our beautiful show notes that we've been putting a lot more effort into recently. um And you should totally check them out because they used to just be a description and are socials, but now there's actually a lot of hyperlinks. So please go check that out, especially if you... are not skeptical if you are curious about what what we're saying and would like further reading and would like reinforcement it is it is linked in the show notes we will cite our sources because that's what we do here we are scholarly upset our sources
02:12:32
Speaker
emily only will not make a bibliography that's as close as i'll get we are scholarly lauren laughing in the background kind of scholarly you two have phds and no amanda don't say that about yourself We all have something to add to this podcast. We are all very valuable people. We all have some, we all have, you know, backgrounds to add to this podcast, but also I think fems and thems and gays can create podcasts about whatever they want, whenever they want. And it's only straight white men that we should police on podcasts. So true. So true. Say louder for the people. Straight white men, put down your podcast mics and go be electricians. The streets are dark as hell. No. Yes! Real as fuck! Make up trade! Real as fuck! Please!
02:13:25
Speaker
We will see you loonies next time at the cottage! Woo!
02:13:33
Speaker
And that is actually what a loon sounds like. Period!