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Intersectionality? In this economy?
235 Plays27 days ago
This week, our trio discuss intersectionality and how it applies to many of the characters in the Game Changers universe. Tune in for lots of feminist theory, interesting history, and us not knowing US states! Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Since Rookie Season'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Since Rookie Season. Well, the summer before. a heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from the Create Canada television series, the Game Changers novels, and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon.
Episode Focus: Intersectionality in Heated Rivalry
00:00:16
Speaker
Today, we're looking at the concept of intersectionality and how it plays into our analysis of the heated rivalry universe. Stay tuned for more academic discussion and, of course, our usual jokes and chaos.
Hailey on Intersectionality and Queer Stories
00:00:38
Speaker
Hi, since rookie season, this is Hailey. Pronouns are she, her. i am a big fan of our beloved heated rivalry, and I am also a psychotherapist, and I have a master's degree in women's and gender studies. So in my academic studies, in my professional experience, I learned that intersectionality is essential in our critical analyses and also just our mindfulness of human experiences. In the case of Heated Rivalry, both the book and the show,
00:01:09
Speaker
I think it's important to remember that queer stories and queer people are not one-dimensional because no person is one-dimensional. People have racial and ethnic identities, cultural backgrounds, gender and sexual identities. We speak many languages. We play different roles in our families, in our relationships, in our communities. We have different values, desires, passions, love languages. And all of these things can be transnational and cross borders and oceans.
Creating Intersectional Characters
00:01:35
Speaker
just to name a few So hence the need for intersexual analysis. Yes, many books and TV shows are, I guess, quote-unquote, make-believe, and they might not always fully encapsulate real-life experiences. And sometimes people just want to be transported to make-believe, and that can be okay.
00:01:53
Speaker
At the same time, this type of storytelling can really intimately reflect real human experiences And all of our human experiences are intersectional, some more than others.
00:02:05
Speaker
And we also consume media because, like in so many other ways, we want to be seen, we want to feel validated, and we want to feel held emotionally. So I believe there is a responsibility to create characters and character stories that are intersectional, like real people.
00:02:19
Speaker
Furthermore, if you are telling stories about people that are not you and do not reflect your experiences, you must be mindful of the intersectionality of others' experiences if you are even going to attempt to do justice to them.
Understanding Stories Through Intersectionality
00:02:33
Speaker
Like I said, people are not one-dimensional, so it does us all a disservice to look at each other that way. Looking at the world through an intersectional lens gives us the gift of understanding each other's stories with more depth and rich richness and humility, whether you're reading it on a page, watching on a show, um or connecting in real life. If we don't, we run the risk of perpetuating disconnection, ignorance, and even oppression.
00:02:56
Speaker
So thank you all for your episode on intersectionality, and thanks for listening to my thoughts.
Introducing the Theme of Intersectionality
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay, so that was Haley, my best friend. Thank you so much for sending in a voice memo. I know I kind of poked you to do it, but she is like one of the smartest people I've ever met in my entire life. And like I love her. Anyways, we thought that was a really great way to frame our conversation on intersectionality. So we wanted to start our episode off with that, but we're going to get into all of the good stuff about intersectionality and heated rivalry starting right now.
00:03:37
Speaker
I think that this was a really great, concise way to frame this discussion that we're going to have. I think this was really beautifully said. Hayley is so smart and cool. Shout out to Hayley for this. um I love her. miss her. And Lauren, I hope you tell her that. Or as she's listening. Hi, Hayley. That was awesome. She's listening.
00:03:54
Speaker
No, I think that was just like really insightful and really well said. And I know that we are probably going to use a lot of jargon in this episode. And so this helps to hopefully clarify some of that and put in perspective why intersectionality is important and how it applies in a real world framework. And so I thought, i just thought that was a really, really great thing to say. And so I'm glad that we're putting it up here at the top. And yeah, thank you.
Apology for Focus Shift: Racism to Intersectionality
00:04:17
Speaker
I know at the end of last episode we said that we would be doing racism this week, but we're kind of doing racism of adjacent. We're doing- Are we doing racism? Are we doing a racism? I hope we're not.
00:04:29
Speaker
We're not doing a racism. We are covering racism in heated rivalry, but actually we're covering intersectionality in heated rivalry. And there's no guests today. it is the OG crew.
00:04:39
Speaker
Amanda's with us. Yeah, very sorry about missing last week. I had something come up. I haven't finished. I haven't even listened to y'all's discussion yet. And I need to throw my voice notes in there. um I will be getting there this shortly, probably after we record this. But I'm so happy to be back. I missed all of y'all so much. And I have so much to say.
A Humorous Story: Vibrator Races
00:04:55
Speaker
I'm so excited. Who won the vibrator races?
00:04:58
Speaker
Which vibrator was the best? <unk> There were many vibrators night. Everyone needs to know. They all had funny names like Landing Strip or Coochie Coochie Bang Bang or like stuff like that. They all had silly names and they would race four at a time. And so what they would do is they would introduce one, show it around, and then people would bid on it. to like to to One, to raise money, but two, to like see if it would win. And they would bet $100, $200, sometimes $300. And it was crazy. And like who has that kind of money but just on them? Literally. right. And so then they would after they would introduce them, which took like 15 minutes, they would race them down this like thing, this like wooden track thing. it was only It wasn't very long. It was probably like less than 10 feet long, probably like 6'8".
00:05:39
Speaker
And then also they had a dong gong where the bartenders would like throw these giant dildos at the gong and get it to stick. And then if you if you bet more than $100, you got to like bang the dong on. It was a whole thing. It was nuts. The drinks were great. The charity was great. there were too many men for my liking i would prefer it was like run by men and like men like hosts and stuff and like what do they know about vibrators listen yeah i know they can be there are they like cis men or gay men um some of them could have been queer but it felt like mostly straight men like the vibe was not giving queer the vibe was like like it was mostly tourists too there was a couple bachelorette parties one in group of which was all in hot dog costumes oh wait absolutely amazing
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah, so it was not- this is not like a usual queer thing. This is like a touristy and like some locals were there, but the vibe was not queer enough. T. That's was. we told everyone that you went and watched Five Rater Races last week. I wasn't gonna say that on the pod, but that's fine. I guess what. It was my last time hanging out with that friend before she moves away forever and ever, and I never see her again as we split up in our lives. And I get to talk to you guys almost every day, so unfortunately that had to happen. T. Real. Real. But now everyone
Advice on Joy and Happiness
00:06:50
Speaker
knows. Well, I'm sure there are vibrator races all over the United States. So... Are there?
00:06:55
Speaker
I don't know. We'll figure it out. Which also... Local gay bar propose vibrator races. I bet our favorite in Orlando would do it. are Are you Googling it? ah Yes.
00:07:09
Speaker
yeah They are. There is a vibrator racing championship in Tampa. Oh. And they are, it looks like kind of all over Florida, which is.
00:07:20
Speaker
Waaasy! Anyways, don't- I had never heard before I moved here. Don't look up where Amanda lives, that's weird. No, that's weird. I didn't say the name of the place or what or where, so. Anyways. Anyway, while we're also yapping at the top, I have some things I want to say! Amanda has had a week. I've had- It's Monday.
00:07:38
Speaker
Amanda's had a week. And it's Monday. And you know what? Amanda's had a sort of weekend. And I need all y'all to know, i know people of all genders listen to our podcast, but I need you to know that if a man is getting you down and a man is pissing you off or upsetting you, you can't let that happen. You are too good in this world. There is too much to do. This world is too beautiful. There's too much joy and happiness out there. And we are the happiness and the joy in the world. And you cannot be letting a man dim you like that. like there' Like there's too much to do. we There is an agenda to complete. And...
00:08:14
Speaker
There you go outside and like look at the sunset instead of being upset over this man There are multiple men that have pissed me off recently and my friend's boyfriend pissed her off And so I did tell her this and it helped her so I'm hoping that it helps some of you as well is that if a man's pissing you off He's literally just a man and you're better than him and that's that and you know what you are better than him You are better than every man. Yeah, but I feel like that's related to our topic today.
Origin and Significance of Intersectionality
00:08:38
Speaker
Yep and Yeah, kind of, in a way. We're going to be talking about intersectionality today, which is such a fun little little thing to talk about. I'm so excited. I'm sure you've heard about intersectionality before. Just like I know you know what our season question is, which is, Why is heated rivalry so addictive? And so today we're going to be examining heated intersectionality through that lens. I'm sure you've heard that term before. I'm sure you probably use it incorrectly somewhere on the internet. I hope you really loved learning about what exactly parasocial and
00:09:12
Speaker
queerbaiting mean because yes oh the things i've been seeing on the internet so we're excited to teach you another term which is intersectionality so we're just gonna dive right in intersectionality it's a term that is attributed to kimberly crenshaw who is a american civil rights advocate and a scholar of critical race theory um She's currently a professor at UCLA and Columbia Law School, and she specializes in and race and gender studies. Kimberly Crenshaw wrote a book in 2014 called On Intersectionality and Essential Writings. And so basically, this is a term that she coined, and it means to speak to the multiple social forces, social identities, and ideological instruments through which power and disadvantage are expressed and legitimized. So we're going to be going into discussing what all of that means to us and how we think it fits into the heated rivalry universe. I would like to clarify that intersectionality does not subscribe to the ideas of the oppression Olympics, which is another term that we see all over on social media. which is when bringing up like people who are oppressed or identities that are oppressed or othered in some way, shape or form, somebody will often jump in and be like, well, because I have this various other oppressed identity, I'm more oppressed than you are. Yeah, this is not a math problem of who has more apples. This is a tool to understand how the system oppresses differently according to context and identity and and and situation of many factors. So it's not about who gets to be the perfect victim. It's about how we see the problem and how we understand how very complex powers are at play in order to know how to solve those problems. yeah So if you have been using this as a metric of where you stand in the pyramid of oppression, I would discourage you discourage you to continue doing that. And I hope that after this episode, you will know why
Personal Encounters with Intersectionality
00:11:26
Speaker
exactly. Yeah, for sure. So when did y'all first encounter intersectionality like as a term or like you finally felt like you understood it? Like, give me the deets.
00:11:39
Speaker
i I can go first if you want. I feel like I kind of knew the concept before. i knew the whole word. Like I remember being in AP Human Geography, which was like when I started arguing with my family about politics, but specifically about the wage gap and how race was like interacting with that, with the gendered component of the wage gap, because we have the gendered wage gap for sure. But then when you divide it or look at it further by race and how that shifts things and puts different things into perspective, I think that was when I first kind of conceptualized it. And then definitely as I got into my sociology classes, like even first of all, intro to sociology, freshman college, but further into my sociology degree, um And even further into my environmental studies degree that came up as well, talking environmental justice and the the interrelation between environmental issues and other identities and like societal impacts, especially because marginalized identities or marginalized groups are further impacted by environmental issues. And that is further compounded. And like, but yeah, that was just kind of how I came across it was through my classes, but definitely first through in high school. Yeah, for sure. So what is interesting about these terms is that I i believe that many people have the experience of being introduced to the concept without the name for the term before. So I think for me, the first like experience where I became conscious of something like intersectionality was, well, learning about former Black Panther women who criticized the movement for its treatment of women. Mm-hmm. and their discourse that said that we first need to fix racial issues before we get into gender as well as when I started learning about how complex the concept of woman is and when I got got into gender theory. When I first heard this term was during my master's when I was in Boston because I think it it it it was like not as common in the Colombian academia before I graduated from my undergrad So I heard it for the first time in class in Boston and it was this Francophone Women Writers seminar and we were focusing on black women. So it was super interesting to finally have ah like a theory and a term and like a tool to tackle in my analysis what I already had seen without having like words to express it. Yeah, I think I first encountered intersectionality around the time of like the Gamergate movements. um And it was probably in some Tumblr spaces. This was also when I was kind of entering into um my undergrad and I was an education major for my undergrad. And so I had a lot of courses on like like educational psychology and like classroom management and thinking about like urban versus
00:14:40
Speaker
non-urban classrooms and like a lot of that I would say the first time that I encountered the term itself was through a book called Waking Up White by Debbie Irving which was a book that was assigned to us in my like first like typically like how my program was structured was you did like two years of gen eds and then you did two years where you were like being in schools and then also taking education specific courses. And so my professor at IU, really just lovely professor, like who I credit a lot of my growth in like these kinds of ideas to, she assigned that book for our class and because our class was like basically all white people. I think there were like three people of color. maybe. um And it was to get us to like start contending with white fragility as soon as we like got into schools because we were working in Indianapolis public schools where the students were mostly students of color or black and brown students and, you know, like had very different ah social, physical, emotional experiences than a largely white classroom of um early 20 somethings. And so It was like the first book that I read that I like interacted with for talking about intersectionality.
00:16:02
Speaker
But I, you know, like further read a lot of other books that I think further kind of cemented this ideal for me. So a piece of work that I would recommend about intersectionality,
Further Reading on Intersectionality
00:16:16
Speaker
if you're looking like very academic, I would say on intersectionality, the essential writings of Kimberly Crenshaw, Like that is definitely what I would read. If you're looking for something less academic, um Hood Feminism, Notes from the Women That a Movement Forgot by Mickey Kendall is one of my favorite books about intersectionality. And I also really like Sister Outsider by Audre Lorde, who is a Black feminist, lesbian writer. And one of my favorite writers, I love her fiction works. But also that is a really great work as well. And she was really... a part of a lot of those movements in the 70s and 80s for like women's rights and especially black women's rights. Yeah, for me, i think you were talking about that experience teaching.
00:17:05
Speaker
think for me, it became really clear besides like what I was studying, the going from Colombia to the US. I think it's Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie who said that she became more aware of her blackness when she moved to the US. yeah she's a big one too i am white i am not black but i come from a very privileged background here yes i am queer and i am a woman which in latin america is a whole thing but i think when i move to the u.s the fact that my movement within the territory and my permission to stay dependent
00:17:41
Speaker
on politics and on the state and on a visa that really changed the way I perceived my identity and my place in the world and so I am that's how I learned that intersectionality is not just about like who you are as an individual but also where you are situated because uh and we're gonna see that with our characters like Context is everything here and it would mean different things to be who you are depending on where you are.
Intersectionality in Various Fields
00:18:08
Speaker
And for works that I recommend, I have to, like for those who are like really into like, let's get hardcore academia lingo. The work of Carol J. Adams is great. The Sexual Politics of Meat is my favorite. It's quite old already, but she has been revising it. So the latest edition has like a new prologue and she has like been very good at
00:18:34
Speaker
like making sure that her thoughts reflect changes in history and in her own own like process of writing so she does change some of her arguments and add stuff and I think it's a beautiful way to understand why for people like me there is no way to be a feminist without being a vegan and there's no way to be a vegan without being a feminist it's wonderful it's beautiful it's super interesting And for those who are wanting to learn about how to apply this concept, I think Omiseke Natasha Tinsley has this very beautiful book called Ursulis Mirrors, and it's a whole book about queerness in Haitian Vodou, but it mixes genres, so it has like music, and it has academic writing, and it has journaling, It analyzes movies like Paris is Burning. It analyzes albums. She talks about different artists like Whitney Houston, like Rihanna. She talks about dominatrix and healing sexual and racist trauma through BDSM. So it's like a huge thing that tackles different ways to use this tool of theory to understand different phenomenons in our society from a queer perspective, which is great. Yeah, yeah bouncing off of that, and it's something that I'm going to dig into further, is a lot of stuff written by queer feminists, specifically, like the Compahee River Collective, which was a black feminist lesbian socialist organization from Boston in the 780s. Sojourner Truth's Ain't I a Woman speech is really huge here. um That is what a lot of feminism, I feel, is rooted off of.
00:20:17
Speaker
Bell Hooks writes a lot about this. And really bell hooks is, read a lot of bell hooks, but so did my philosophy major friends. um One of my closest friends was was a philosophy major. And he said that when he read bell hooks, it was very, it didn't feel like super academic, but it was a like you were able to engage with it and digest Mm-hmm.
00:20:36
Speaker
A really nice way because sometimes I feel like when you dig into some of this stuff, it can be a bit harder to process or there's so many like complex thoughts trying to come through at once and Bell Hooks does a great job of suffering out. I also loved, loved, loved Punks, Bull Daggers and Welfare Queens, which is an essay but essay by Kathy Cohen and then Black Lesbian in White America and Other Writings, a collection of essays, which like Black lesbianism and really just queer people of color are so huge in this. And if we're ready, I i want to kind of talk a little bit about the controversy over intersectionality, both in history and in. Wait, whoa, wait, before we get into that, who introduced you to punks, bulldaggers, and welfare cleans? I do believe that was you, Lauren. We did start talking about this. On our many late night talks.
00:21:22
Speaker
Our listeners cannot see this, but Lauren was like, pulling up a post, like, who introduced you? And you know what? Who told you about this? Who let that queer queer theory of the reading group? And then had to be like, hey, by the way, okay, so also, you're gonna read, you might read, Punks, Bulldaggers, and Welfare Cleans. And I need to tell you right now, that Kathy Cohen, because I know some person's going to read that and be like, Kathy Cohen's advocating for pedophilia. And I need you to tell you to tell you right now, she's not.
00:21:53
Speaker
She's not. You're reading it wrong. Thank you. But that's a great that's a great segue for talking about intersectionality, current politics. Well, yeah, even i mean historically, because I want to give homage to that and pay homage to that and talk about that, but also talk about the problems that it's facing right now, which relatedly, I learned, I first read a lot of these works in my sociology classes, and now I just am finding out that either sociology classes are are being banned as being required for first-year students, intersectionality as a topic is being banned, that's a whole problem, but intersectionality when it first came out
Controversies and Impact of Intersectionality
00:22:26
Speaker
was very radical. I mean, and subsequently, that's why it's so controversial today is because people, it wasn't seen is like, oh, you can't both be impacted by this, but both as a woman and black or color. you It has to be one or the other, or like people just could not understand it. This especially came to be in like, you know, the quote unquote second wave of feminism, if you're familiar or If not, it's the wave of feminism from the 70s to that feminists wanted to come together, but the first wave of feminism, the ones that like you know got women the right to vote, etc., and the old 1800s, they were all white. Or the all the people that got the credit and fame from that were all white. Whereas when you get to the 70s and 80s, we're out of the civil rights movement. You know, it's like the Black Panthers have been thriving for a while. There are are various other movements through these decades. So then when it comes to this this next wave of a feminist movement to push women further in society for social change, all of a sudden, Black feminists want to get involved. And there's... No, Black feminists don't want to get involved. Like, all of a sudden want to get involved. Like, right they were... they were not allowed to be a part of the feminist movements. But they have always been involved because yeah they have always been involved. like and yeah A lot of times, like in when we were talking about the right for like women' like women's rights to vote in the 1900s to 1920s, Black women were the people who were giving white women the ideas to do that. Oh no, yeah, that's why I said that white women got the credit for it and louis attribute it to them. But it was everything that has always been rooted in black women. I mean, going back to Sojourner Truth's Ain't I a Woman, going back to her speech about that. But the head started budding in feminist spaces because there was still that racism aspect and lot of white feminists hadn't decolonized or factored in that that racial component that they were still very internally racist and particularly in queer spaces and and some of the the works I recommended a few minutes ago have this black lesbian lens because these essays that I've read, these black lesbians, I feel like they're not getting heard in white spaces or it's either you can't be black and you can't be a lesbian and you can't be a woman. Like it was this whole combination of things that they were like, okay, feminists are only on women or feminists, are you're only on whatever. Like you they people there was a a struggle to combine all of these ideas, which is what for intersectionality. And so fast forward to today, it's so controversial because i mean, At the root of it all, the people in power, i.e. cishet white men, don't want non-cishet white men to be in power. And I think that having recognizing intersectionality and understanding it would give people power. So that's why it's being banned. They come call it critical race theory for whatever. Which like critical race theory is a separate thing that isn't bad. It's just a very high level of academics. that like That's a separate thing. But it's very controversial right now. They don't want black women to have power. They don't want people ever have power. Ever. At all. And so that's the kind of the controversy now is that like classes that I couldn't take some classes in my undergraduate career because my university literally like either put it like fired under mysterious circumstances, the teacher, i e the teacher got so uncomfortable with everything they had to leave. The classes were determined to be like antithetical to the the state's laws. Like there was a bunch of stuff I couldn't take some classes and then classes that I was taking the teachers had to be like there was a bunch of rules and it became really, really political. And it impacted parts of my education. We were like, this is the exact, we're literally talking about these systems of oppression and these are the implications of it and the like, if like actual practices of it. Like this is how it it goes from the institution to the people. um And it was so highlighting of the stuff that we were reading and learning about to actually have that happen to us. Now it sucked, But I get to talk to people about that and be like, hey, so actually intersectionality is a real thing. And I just watch them like be so shitty about it and totally discredit a bunch of work that my professors had done or we couldn't read some articles, we couldn't read a bunch of books.
00:26:18
Speaker
and it's like, well, why don't you want us to read it? Huh? Why don't you want us to read banned books? Why can't I have this professor even though they are totally qualified? That's part of that as well. And another example in practice is this court case that i I, don't know if I learned about it in a high school or in college, might've been college. But it's DeGraffenried versus General Motors. It's from 1976. Basically, we'll link the Wikipedia page. But the courts weighed in the allegations of race and gender discrimination separately, finding that the employment of African-American men in the factory disproved racial discrimination and the employment of white women in the offices disproved gender discrimination. it was this culmination of this court case where these black women or African-American women were felt that they had been treated differently because of this intersection of their identities and literally intersectionality went to the court and they argued about it and you can read more about it but I just wanted to highlight that that was like an actual in government situation where like they hadn't had the framework for it yet like in the law and they were like well we can't do both and I'm like literally why can't you do both it is both But they argued about it. So go read up on that. We'll link that in the show notes. But that was once again, another highlight of intersectionality in practice of people being impacted by both their
Character Analysis: Shane and Ilya
00:27:31
Speaker
race. Right. And if we if we think about like men, all men hate women, like We see this like very, very obviously, especially with the rise of like alt-right movements currently. The Manosphere documentary, if you haven't watched it on Netflix yet, it's very good. There is a lot of like hatred for women done by men. And like it is something that men have to unlearn and not saying that men can't unlearn it, but instinctively or like from birth men are taught to hate women and white people are taught to hate black people like and so black women are the most hated people in america like they get less money they get less rights They get less everything because of these intersecting identities. And so it's important to recognize that and then to also recognize how these identities or as we like to call them, interstitial ah identities, how they like work together, how they don't work together. they like have boundaries and borders and what those are and like how that applies to heated rivalry as well. Yeah. Lau, do you want to tell us some of the examples of how, of intersectionality to help us further understand? Of hater rivalry, yes.
00:29:04
Speaker
So, wait, before we get into this, can we break down everybody's, like, identities from what we know about them? Yeah. Like, can we kind of list them out for, like, our characters? Yes. Mostly what we're going to talk about, or Lau is about to get into, or what we're about to talk about is, we're mostly going to be looking at Shane and Ilya. So just so our readers kind of remember, Shane is gay.
00:29:26
Speaker
He's half Asian and he is assumed it's never been, it's been like not a diagnosis, which some people ah argue gives it more power, but Shane is assumed to be autistic.
00:29:41
Speaker
But other kind of identities for Shane that we have is Shane is definitely at least upper middle class growing up. And then he's very wealthy in the future. And Shane is also young. um So he is under 30 throughout most of the series that we know him, even in this first television like season. And he's able-bodied. He's an athlete. Yeah.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yes. He's physically able-bodied, which is we're going to keep separate from his emotional... Neurodivergence. Neurodivergence. On the opposite side, we have Ilya. Ilya is not from like Western-centric culture, so that's important to note. He is bisexual. He is, potentially, we could read him as a refugee, especially since he cannot...
00:30:29
Speaker
return to Russia. We can read him as like having a refugee identity. We also can assume that he is possibly upper middle class and then eventually very wealthy. He is physically and able-bodied but has emotional disabilities, aka depression, which we assume And then also is wealthy and young. And importantly, he's also white, too.
00:30:53
Speaker
It's interesting that in the book, he seems to not be coming from such a privileged background economically. Because he comments on the first scene in the book, not in the series. He comments on how Shane looks. And he says, like, oh, he looks wealthy because he has a good winter coat and I only have like this rag thing so I think he was written less privileged than what we see his family to be in the series right we would have to dig how like much makes ah police people yes in Russia but definitely in the series it's a completely different story Yeah. And from what I know about Canadian and American like upbringings in hockey, like if you are playing triple a hockey, which is the highest level, it's like 20 grand a year oh um to play hockey. And that's not including all of the equipment. So I'm not sure we could definitely look into how much it would cost in Russia,
00:31:58
Speaker
to play like youth hockey. But Shane's family definitely like we've talked before on the show about that hockey is inherently out of reach for many like young people because it is so expensive. It's of the most expensive sports. to get into. Like ice skating? Yeah. Yeah, and so, but there's, like, this is a very diverse set of characters, like, not only the two protagonists, and they're not diverse as they represent one identity, they all represent this very complex situation of the intersection of different identities and how like
Diverse Identities in Heated Rivalry
00:32:39
Speaker
they engage with it.
00:32:40
Speaker
We have talked about Yuna being an immigrant, being Japanese and learning how to perform and sometimes even pass whiteness with her speech, with her way of like engage with people in the hockey industry. We have talked about JJ in the books.
00:32:59
Speaker
JJ, it isn't clear if JJ is an immigrant himself of if he's like second or third generation Haitian. Canadian. The series give us like less. But just being francophone in Canada is already like of a lower status in many regards than being anglophone mainly. Yeah. So that so he has an accent. He is probably like from he's he's black. So that's definitely something else to have in our minds. Then we have like people like Hayden. who is typical white hockey player. he's straight. He has a wife. He has kids. He is living his life. He's million he's a millionaire. So he can have like five kids and not get broke. you know We have people like Kim, who is white, yes, but is also gay and middle class and struggles to pay student loans, which is like a huge source of like making people per poorer than they are in the US. Yeah. You have Scott, who, yes, he's a millionaire now. He was on a scholarship before and he's an orphan. So that also plays like, how was your family dynamic growing up? Like Shane has this family of two parents that love each other, that stay together.
00:34:23
Speaker
loving each other, not just stay together for the sake of it. So he has a very safe space at home. And yeah a lot of our characters don't have that. Ilya definitely doesn't have that. He has a family with his three suicide, a brother with an addiction. yeah so there's a lot of on that cocktail of identity for many of her characters. We get less info on Rose and Svetlana, but still, like, it it it is very interesting to me that Svetlana was cast as a woman of color. I love it in the series because definitely the Svetlana that we get in the books has, like, less depth than we see. Yeah, she's, like, the blonde, white Russian, like, she's the Melania trauma. Selling science to the goal, yeah. Like, yeah.
00:35:09
Speaker
selling fancy cars and we do get to see like although they she is always like the support of Ilia and she's very loving and she's smart we do see this instance of misogyny with Alexei when he calls her a whore yeah and I think there's a lot to impact there in the future and yeah we we get all these different characters that are not just one thing you know like they're not standing in for one single identity as a lot of people who want us to understand stuff so you have to choose between being racialized or being queer and you have to choose a struggle and you cannot be both and that's not the case and i love that this series represent that so well so i had like a little list of being queer and being disabled, right? so So we're talking disabled in this case, cognitive issues and mental disabilities like depression, anxiety, we're talking about being on the spectrum. And again, ah we say being disabled as the system is disabling you from bris navigating the world. in a way that it's possible. Being queer and being immigrant, and I think we're gonna delve into this a bit more, but Ilya's case is very interesting because he's queer and immigrant, but that doesn't mean that his home country is better than the one he's in, or vice versa, because the U.S., yay, great for queer rights. Yeah. I think even seeing Ilya, like reading Ilya as a refugee or like as a person who's been displaced yeah by his country, like is like an important analysis. And like something I want to like know is that like oftentimes.
00:36:57
Speaker
the compounding of the identities makes you more visible and in that way can make you more oppressed in certain shapes and forms. Especially when we think about like black trans people um who are murdered at extremely high rates yeah worldwide who have more visibility than maybe like Asian queer men do.
00:37:23
Speaker
ah And for example, like yeah and and and I like thinking about one of the things that I love that this series does, because yes, sometimes like this compound of things does make you more visible. And then you have like this thing where because of that visible part, you get read in a very specific way. Yes. So Shane is f read firstly as Asian Canadian and not as gay because that's less visible, right? And so the series is genius in that by casting Svetlana as a racialized woman, it gives us in this first season three women of color that are very different from each other. We have Maria, we have Svetlana, and we have Elena, right? And we can even see Yuna too. And Yuna, of course. yeah So we have people who range like super differently in stages of life, ages, that's so important. Like the way age is represented in Shane's parents or in Ilya's father, you know, how we tackle like stuff like dementia. And then what you have, like this very understanding and able to plastify their thinking. parents such as Yuna and David. But with Svetlana, Elena, Maria and Yuna, we get a diverse understanding of what being a right racialized woman in North America means. And I love this because usually what shows tend to do is to take one of each and just create like a a cliche of it. And here... my like Yeah, I love when you start watching a TV show and there is one black character and they're also gay and they're also disabled and you're like, oh, so you just said we can't have disabled people, we can't have black people, we have queer people. We just need to put it all in one so then it doesn't affect everything else.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yeah, and this is how tokenizing works and how literally the epitome of tokenization. um and I'm really glad that we didn't have that heated rivalry where we have such a diverse representation of identities from both race, gender, sexuality, etc. And the intersexual. Yeah, and and and and we see like And we're gonna see, I hope, in future seasons, also this that we're seeing with racialized women with queer people. We're gonna, like, Ilya and Shane and Scott and Kip already gave us, like, sort of a diverse way of being queer. Yeah. Men. Queer cis men, you know? Like, already we were having discussions about not all cis queer men like the same things sexually. Not all of them...
00:40:00
Speaker
love men only, so we have our bisexual bisexual king, Ilia, not all of them are as comfortable coming out. Some of them are not ah performing gayness in a very traditional way. Some others are, as we see at the Kingfisher. So I think I'm excited to see how we see queerness beyond being a queer man. yeah In future seasons, I know the books have trans people, especially a trans woman hockey athlete, i think, if I remember correctly. I think so, yeah. I believe that's correct. In the yeah in the long game. So i hope go I hope they keep the good work because this is really a ah really good piece of art to understand the complexities of intersectionality and how we understand people how people engage with their identity and the oppressions they face and how they are read by society. Because this is not only like how I perceive myself, it's how others perceive me and how that affects the way they treat me. Exactly. And how much access I have to rights and privilege and all. Yeah, and I think it also, i mean, I think a lot of the anxiety that Shane has about coming out is because he is both Asian and queer. Yeah, of course. And he already knows that he, like any other like player of color in the National Hockey League, experiences
00:41:36
Speaker
some kind of difference because he is Asian and that is how he is visibly presenting, right? And so he already gets some kind of pushback from that. And so he is even more nervous about the pushback from announcing that he is queer because also if we think about how Asian people have been, especially Asian men, have been portrayed as more feminized. Or how Asian people are often viewed through like very pedophilic lenses and are like viewed as like children or have like children like childlike terms associated with them. like that adds a whole nother layer to Shane's queerness and so that's why this intersectional analysis
Portrayal of Queerness and Intersectionality
00:42:22
Speaker
matters. Exactly, the just like the intersection between queerness and race, fascinating thing. Like the way the internalized homophobia and queerphobia in racialized communities work, the way of like divide and conquer of our system, how successful it has been in the past, because of how afraid and like it makes sense you can be of adding another layer to the ways in which you don't perform a card accordingly to the norm. it's It's fascinating from a theory standpoint and terrifying from an experience standpoint. Yeah, absolutely. And that was why I was interested in your put loud specifically like is in your specific person you were wanting share stuff ah about later. But I also wanted to add that what Lauren said reminded me like immediately in my head started playing is that clip of Shane and Yuna while they're watching Ilya after the hockey shoot where She's, like, talking about brand deals and stuff, and she's, like, a lot of people, like, are going to look up to you, you know, like, that that one specific line. And he is sitting there thinking about race, but I've seen a of people edit it to be, like, make edits of Heated Rivalry to be about his queerness as well, and and i believe this show makes us... Reference back to that as well. um And so I think that that's really important because exactly what we're saying like he takes that so deeply that people look up to him and he knows how huge of a star he is that once he comes out it's like he's not even just an Asian hockey player he is a queer
00:43:51
Speaker
hockey player and a queer Asian hockey player so even in like an Asian world outside of the hockey league this is a huge thing for like an Asian man to be out and proud as well but then if you bring it back into the hockey world this is a lot of our characters here revolve so much within this hockey world which as we've said the antagonist for this universe is the NHL and is homophobia and so this adds much more not much more nuance but this specific institution holds already so much of systemic oppression. If you look, I mean, both in-universe and in the real world, we see things like the Kachuk brothers, like in-universe we see like Matthew Kent, his first whatever his Kent, whatever his first name Dallas Kent.
00:44:34
Speaker
Yeah, Dallas Kent, who is probably just the Kachuk brothers combined, but we see those people who are representative of the institution and how those values are held through the institution by things, by like using slurs, by like being outwardly hateful and unapologetically hateful. They are holding up the, vote i mean, even the director of the NHL or that big head honcho guy that- The commissioner. Yes, that motherfucker, the one that is the institution himself, how he wants to uphold these values as a representative of the and NHL and how that is directly oppressive to the people. Yeah, so I think in this hockey world, the intersectional lens is just as critical because it's already such an oppressive force. Like, even in the first episode, we see the way that they're like, oh, we're so happy to have an an Asian person. Like, they're very... like Their microaggressions are hardly micro, like they're very outwardly, we've talked about this before, and so we already know how the institution of the NHL or the league feels about them, and so to to compound both Shane and Ilya's queerness is really complicated and nuanced and that's a lot of pressure. you know Even for them, like not even just the public on them, but their whole careers. like They're going in the Hall of Fame, and to have this kind of thing that could potentially tear them down, it's it's a lot. and i mean That's why it's a good story. It has a lot of angst as a story, but there are real-world parallels to the people, and there are real-world experiences that mirror exact this exact thing. um so I want to be heartless that we enjoy that this is a story, but also there are people that this is their daily experience. like These are their lived experiences, and that's the power of storytelling, is how we can understand... intersectional identities if we ourselves don't necessarily hold on. And like, it's a point, I mean, I know we like talk about the Chucklefuck brothers, but like, this is the majority of how the league feels. Like, the majority of current hockey players are Trump supporters or don't believe in this kind of stuff. Like the commissioner is an even worse version of Roger Crowell. Like Gary Bettman is literally like, even people I know that are like not woke or whatever you want to fucking call us, not leftist or liberal who watch hockey, hate Gary Bettman because he's a horrible fucking person. Like, so this like to say, or to like disregard,
00:46:53
Speaker
like Shane's race or like Ilya's status as a refugee or both of their identities as disabled folks. Like, in order to, like, hold up their queerness above all, I think it's a really wrong thing to do. Because the thing of intersectionality is that it often gets worse, like, the more visible your various identities are.
Lau's Personal Experiences with Intersectionality
00:47:20
Speaker
Clearly, yeah. And Amanda, you were asking, like, you hinted at asking about my experience. And... i I found... Last time I went to France to visit my host family, they had like this memories box of when I was there and of the adoption. they This is a very diverse family. They adopted two girls from Peru and that's why I went there because they wanted them to have connections with Latin America. They're quite like the exception to white people who adopt racialized kids in which they did educate themselves about everything. But so they had, it's's it's cute because in the box of all the adoption stuff from the other girls, they have also the stuff from when they accepted me for six months as a an exchange student. And so this was a very, very super mega small town in France. So me going there was like news, you know, like to the point where I went my first day of class, someone asked me, OK, you have an accent, a professor, a teacher like you have an accent. Where do you come from? And I explain and they're very confused like, why you end in this tiny town? And so journalists decided to go and interview the family and take free, you know, like it was like a piece of the newspaper of the town made.
00:48:42
Speaker
think peace about this family and our history together and the adoption part blah blah blah and i remember that by then like i had been coached by my family before i went there like you you represent our country when you go outside you are the face of colombia you have the responsibility to teach people that were not all pablo scobar I was 15, you know, turned 16 there. So imagine having like that. And I was also, so as I said, very privileged economically.
00:49:16
Speaker
I am from Bogota. And so my idea of what the violence was, I was not completely shielded from it because my father is a journalist. So we did receive threats and stuff like that when I was little. But...
00:49:29
Speaker
I was very privileged for the right norm. So in my in my mind, it was like, it's so crazy that they think that Colombia is such ah an insecure country, you know, like, why is this in all the blacklist or for exchange students beyond Bogotá? We have like such beauty and I had dragged the whole propaganda of biodiversity and the beauty of my country. I had no idea that this was a colonial way of presenting you know like the oppressed trying to sell their value to the oppressor. And so when I was reading that interview, I was so ashamed like the last time I went there because I was like, why am I saying stuff? yeah like my country is so peaceful the worst i've seen is a dead bird on the street stuff like that like was teenager but what that illuminated for me is this huge weight that i had to represent my country and to change the narrative. And this was this was like actually when I reread that interview was the same trip that I made to France where when I got to show the girls airport, I am fluent in French. So I took charge of the border control and told my my husband like I'm in charge here. And the guard, he asked me if I'm related to Pablo Escobar.
00:50:51
Speaker
oh Oh, before he grants me. Motherfucker. So I'm like, hu no, ah in the best way possible to be able to enter Schengen space. And he was like, ha ha okay, of course not because you have a beautiful accent, blah, blah, blah. I have no idea what. I just, oh my God. Enter autopilot.
00:51:14
Speaker
I have actually experienced more microaggressions for being Colombian in France than I had in the US, which is a lot. And the other great example is I lived in France again after I graduated high school, so at 19. And I was with some Colombian friends. And Paris has this like neck near Pellachez, the cemetery. There's a concentration of like Colombian business.
00:51:40
Speaker
Like there's a restaurant, there's like a convenience shop. There's a lot of stuff like that. And my friends were very, very into buying or one of our national drinks is guaro, which is made for anise, like liquorice. Anyway, it was very expensive, but I was like, yeah, I'm going to accompany you because I'm the only one who speaks French. So we went there and we were lost. This was before like Google Maps was a thing that you could like constantly use in the street. And so we entered a tabac.
00:52:12
Speaker
So like this small like bar where you buy cigarettes. It's a very normal thing and in in France. And I asked for directions. And the guy thought I was French or at least European because I guess my French was good. And he was like, oui, mademoiselle, but be very careful with those Colombians because I asked for the Colombian store. They are very dangerous people. And I looked at him and I say in Spanish, very indignant, in my best like, Sofia Vergara impression, like, Yo soy colombiana, hijueputa.
00:52:50
Speaker
So I was like, i definitely France is the place where I experience more the visibility and visibility of things. Like, i can sometimes pass for French. If I don't speak for too long, if it's just like two or three sentences, you cannot tell that um I have an accent because those are the sentences like asking for directions and stuff like that. Like I have perfected them and I'm white and I know my way in Paris and in other places. But the moment I become Colombian,
00:53:24
Speaker
I experienced the myth of the sexy Latina. I have experienced that. The question of why do you speak so good French, that as well. You know, like all of that. I didn't have that experience in the US because my accent is very clearly not a native accent. And because I had no idea how to navigate the system there. So it has been very interesting. And i and when I see Ilya and when I see the difference between him in the US and him in Canada, I think of that like how it is different to immigrate to different places in the world, even to visit with different passports. And yeah, border control can always surprise you. Derogatory.
00:54:03
Speaker
No, that's that's so wild. Well, thank you for sharing. That was- Yeah, no, we really appreciate it. Very insightful. It's always eye-opening. I like to think that I have heard stories either like online or from my friends, but it's I always feel like learning something or I'm like, how can people- i feel like I'm learning that people can just be shitty no matter where you are, and I think that that's a big lesson from
Decolonizing Identity
00:54:25
Speaker
it. And so for me, that's like a, wow, don't be shitty and judge people about where they come from or- or Also, French people just suck. That's true. I just need to say, the people from my village, in France, my village, from that little town, they're lovely.
00:54:39
Speaker
And ah my Peruvian sisters and I are very surprised at how such a white place was so welcoming to three Latin American people like us. And especially them, because they look indigenous. They are... people of color, I look white.
00:54:57
Speaker
I am pale. So for me to like to see these tiny Peruvian girls with Peruvian ponchos trotting around this Breton village where everyone else was white and knowing that everyone was like, oh yeah, we know them.
00:55:12
Speaker
And that was the place where I didn't experience microaggressions. No, so yeah, so yeah, it's it's like Parisians, o brit like people from Bretagne, usually quite cool.
00:55:25
Speaker
I love them. Thank you very much for being so welcoming. I feel like I've heard a lot of stories about French people who can just instantly clock if you're French or not. And so for them to think that you're like French or European is is quite impressive from what heard. I have a question for you.
00:55:39
Speaker
Those stories were told by people from the US? Yes, maybe. About French people being shitty? Yeah, I mean. I think like just the internet, I've always seen it. Like French people suck. So... The thing is, you get a very different treatment if you try to speak English. Yes. Right. and i if you try And than if you try to speak French or Spanish, like, they appreciate tourists from everywhere except the U.S. way more. Oh, no. I i am aware of the anti-U.S. rhetoric everywhere, and I fully support it 100%. I am a Dome American. I didn't know where Connecticut was this weekend. Yeah. Lauren? I was like, it's in the northeast. I don't know where it's at in the northeast.
00:56:26
Speaker
It's not that far northeast. It's like near Pennsylvania, right? It's above New York now. It's going to be close to New York City. Y'all, I'm shocked.
00:56:38
Speaker
I've never been to Connecticut. I know I lived in Boston. I know a lot of people from Connecticut, so that might be why, but I know where it is. I... nope. Well, in my... in your defense, Juan and I did drive from Boston to North Carolina quite a bit, so I know states. That's long drive. I know with cats on one day. It's not that far. i Like, and the... Listen, with a U-Haul full of a two-bedroom apartment. Yeah, that's a lot. And two screaming cats and only one of us knew knew how to drive the U-Haul. Juan. I drove from Florida to Chicago with three cats. I know. all
00:57:13
Speaker
I know. I know. Like, I'm looking at a drive from Georgia to North Carolina and it's seven hours. Like, it's in there right next to each other. Yeah. No, this was like in the U-Haul. It was like a full 15 hours because of fucking New York.
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah. And later on, we did it in a rented car because we were only moving Juan and Kalila and not the whole apartment. And it took us eight hours. Yeah. Yeah. Also, in the summer and the U-Haul AC is not great. No.
00:57:44
Speaker
it's It's not. Okay, let's get back to talking about intersectionality. So Amanda wanted to talk about colonial perspectives. i I love how we were like, this isn't the oppression Olympics. And then we were like, and actually it's worse if you have multiple identities that people, like if you have multiple identities.
00:58:03
Speaker
Well, they compound. They compound. it's It's not, we're not. Okay, first of all, everybody who is oppressed is oppressed. We recognize that. you are all oppressed in very different ways and we understand that and i mean the one of the big ones we haven't talked about is colonialism colonialism which root of all my issues the root of all the issues yeah but anyway including species and people who eat animals sorry Yes. Well, no, because that is so related as well. And like, oh my god, okay, I'm gonna go on another rant. And I'm now we're not gonna let Lau talk about veganism because Lau will go off. And I have to say... Just read Carol J. Adams. That's all.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah, go over that if you're interested in veganism. Some of us unfortunately cannot. But also, like semi-related, like veganism is like so tied to colonialism because there are cultures that aren't vegan specifically, and it's a whole thing because it's more sustainable else like otherwise. But anyway, back to colonialism, which is the root of capitalism and all of our struggles, and I'm so serious. They're so intertwined. Yes. And i could I could literally make like an hour-long presentation on this.
00:59:12
Speaker
I've wrote written so many papers about it. i feel so passionate about this, but I might have mentioned it before. going to mention it again in the future, and I'm mentioning it now. these some of these Most of these identities that we've talked about are, especially as Lauren mentioned with Ilya, a Western perspective. These are like specifically like like Western Europe and North American, very specific white cultured identities. There are other cultures outside of these that have varied identities both in gender and sexuality. I mean, indigenous communities, different Asian communities, pacific Pacific Islander communities, so many other cultures have different perspectives on one intersectionality, but also the identities themselves. And I think that that's very something to put into perspective is that you need to decolonize your sense of identity, also decolonize your sense of time, which I have a very great book recommendation if you're interested about decolonization decolonizing your sense of time. I took this class called Native American Philosophy and that disproportionately shifted my worldview, like absolutely blew my mind. Most of the the links that I'm sharing today are from that class as well. But decolonize your sense of identity because like this it's just rooted in whiteness. and identities change so much over time and space and places and that's something too important as well like even our idea of womanhood has changed in the past 100 years but even spending hundreds of years or decades or even just trends from like five years to five years to five years our ideas of gender and sexuality and various other identities and family and ability it all changes over so much time and so I think recognizing that can help expand your view if you're struggling with some of the the things that we're talking about or explaining this to friends and family or people that you know that struggle with this trying to explain that everything shifts with time and that nothing is stagnant and identity is never stagnant um that is very critical to broadening your horizons and understanding different people from different cultures different perspectives country or even like your neighbor who is you know you're from the same place you grew up the same but
01:01:14
Speaker
They can still be different from you. And I think that decolonizing your sense and and your sense of identity and understanding how things change is very important as well. Related to this and also in this class that I mentioned, it's something Lauren mentioned earlier, is an interstitial identity. And this is different than intersectionality. And I have been thinking about interstitial identities since I took this class in fall of 2023. That's two and a half years. that like at least once a week I'm thinking about interstitial identities. So this is like an interstitial gap or space when circumscribed with new defined angles creates a new interstitial identity. That's from Ann Waters, 2001. Link in the show notes. And another reference point here is people with mixed identities, like multiracial, um like check all that apply box or just check one box. you're familiar with it, people want, like if you're taking like an SATA, they're like, oh, what's your race, but you can only select one. People need to select multiple. and that's relevant here.
01:02:06
Speaker
It's not one or another, it's both combined to facilitate a new identity in this gap. This is also where I love to reiterate my hate for dichotomies. um I just hate something being one or the other. There's always another third space or third or more both neither, secret third thing, gray space. I will never say it's just two things because it's always more than that. But interstitial identities, interstitial identity is more like being a member of multiple groups in the same category, whereas intersectionality is the intersection of multiple groups. So interstitial would be like having multiple cultures, multiple races, whereas intersectionality can be gender and race. It's where they meet in the middle, it's the intersection, if that helps. Interstitial as a gap between lines, whereas intersectional as two perpendicular lines meeting. I have further readings on this if you're interested and about decolonizing your time.
01:02:57
Speaker
But this is just something I've been thinking about and I think Shane highlights this really well as an interstitial identity. We've said before about being Asian and gay but also Asian Canadian and a hockey player and it's this it's the these ideas of where he like can kind of like shift between some of them. where he can I mean, if Rachel rewrote him better or- who said that? Right, like more into his Asian-ness versus more into his Canadian-ness. Excuse me?
01:03:22
Speaker
ah Or like, you know, even better, Ilya, how he can shift into his Russian-ness, but also I've seen some headcanons where he shifts more into his Boston-ness, which also Shane picks up his Boston slang, and then he's walking around calling things wicked and everyone's like, where the fuck do you start saying wicked from?
01:03:38
Speaker
That's a ditch. But I hope that makes sense. And I hope that an interstitial identity is something you can continue to ponder and perceive more in other characters or people in your lives or something else to kind of understand how they exist in two different worlds, or you yourself might exist in two different worlds and how that can create a third identity or like that gap between making that new space. I think that's really important to consider and think about in this intersectionality discussion and understanding people that have different identities you. Yeah, and I think that really leads to a good point and a good closing point that I have about allyship.
Encouragement for Educated Advocacy and Allyship
01:04:13
Speaker
I was listening to Everyone Deserves Sunshine, which is another heated rivalry podcast. And today their episode that came out on 4.13 was about advocacy. It's called Advocacy and Breaking Walls. And I thought it was a really good conversation. and ultimately they were asking this question, if a story moves you, is it enough to simply feel something and enjoy it?
01:04:35
Speaker
Or do you have a responsibility to act? And I think this calls back to a lot of our conversations about the heated rivalry fandom being like homophobic, or the heated rivalry fandom being racist, or the heated rivalry fandom being some ism of some quotes. And I think what they ultimately are getting at is that you should be, if you love this show, you should be fighting for gay rights. You should be fighting for like equality and racism and then like, or equality and race and equality and gender. And you should be interacting with not just as I know this happens a lot in the United States where when you first get into activism, you're like, I'm going to call my representatives like all of the time. And that is just one small thing that you can do and getting involved in your community and in organizations that support the identities that are covered in the show. especially right now, like refugee and immigrant communities or LGBTQ communities, they need the allies and they need educated allies. So we've just given you a ton of resources that you read through that you could start teaching yourself.
01:05:50
Speaker
I'm always constantly shocked at like how many people went through 2020 and the george George Floyd murders. and the George Floyd murder and the Black Lives Matter movement that happened in 2020 in America and didn't do the reading, like after that, like just went back to brunch and like didn't do all of the work. I'm telling you, there is still time to do the work. Now is the time to do the work. You need to start educating yourself. And we've just given you a ton of resources that, guess what, are probably free somewhere on the internet. And you can access and, you know, get into because you need to do the work and you need to be an educated ally. Because I've always said that uneducated allies are almost as bad as the people who oppose the movement that we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I have a quote that I think it's a good way to add to your comments.
01:06:46
Speaker
closing on to all of the things we have said from a book that I did not recommend but now I'm recommending queer freedom black sovereignty by I always remember just oh Anna Maureen Lara I always remember just last so this is from her chapter on war she also does work on voodoo and queerness and uh ecocriticism So, Lara says, I contain, constrain my body land or my water memories in the presence of certain others. I worry about being too much, too intense, too big, too much. This worry exists because the internalization of colonization, believing that i am in excess, that my queer black existence is beyond what Christian colonial capitalism needs, that I am the unnecessary appendage
01:07:36
Speaker
just waiting to be caught away. Under the weight of my worry, I silence myself. These mechanisms of self-silencing are a sign that I am navigating violence. They are also a sign of being beholden to the truths of others while silencing my own. But sitting with Lula Wanga in this moment displays this knowing. This is the time-space where my own desire and resistance to the allure of being a modern liberal liberal subject and where other registers of being come into creative content. Hell yeah. Thank you. that it I would love to read more. That's awesome. I should also have, if ah what Lauren was saying about Black Lives Matter, if you are not familiar with some of those readings as well, I have a free book that I got in one of my classes. I'm trying to find the name of it right now, but my apps. that If you would like that as well, I'm happy to share that too. and Oh, here it is. From Black Lives Matter to Black Liberation by Kionga Yamada Taylor. Click it in. But yes, and also if our our show notes are getting a bit long, so I think I might put them in a separate Word doc as like a PDF or something and link it there or or a Google doc or I'll do something, but I will collect all of these and separate them by subject. So if people are interested, they are there and most of them should be free. Some of them you might need to have institution library access, but I will try my best to find a PDF or freely accessible version because that's the best way to get allies is free readings and not having to pay. Yeah. Well, that is all for our conversation on intersectionality. um We will see you all next week with a new special guest and we will be actually covering racism this time. So we're going to do a racism guys. You excited? Actually, we don't have an episode on May 1st. Our episode on races on May 8th. Oh, tea.
01:09:13
Speaker
Okay. So, well, this was a great conversation. I always love talking with you all. It's almost like we should have a podcast or something. Crazy. Yeah. We are off next week. Amanda's mother is in town. And as the editor extraordinaire of this here podcast, they will not be able to edit. So that's perfectly fine. We will be back in two weeks with our episode on racism and heated rivalry with a special guest.
01:09:42
Speaker
yeah If you have fan mail, you are welcome to send it to us on any of our socials or to our email, which is srspod at protonmail.com.
01:09:53
Speaker
Also, please rate and subscribe to our podcast. Rate us five stars because we're the best. And follow us on all of our socials. We're on Twitter or X or whatever we're calling that platform now. Threads and Instagram. Yippee. All right. We will see you loonies next time. Amazing.
01:10:14
Speaker
Since Brookie Season is created by Goran, Lau, and Amanda. The cover art is by Goran and Lau. And Amanda is our editor. Thanks listening.