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We're Going to 'The Cottage'!!! (with Lauren's Mom)
357 Plays2 months ago
WE'RE AT THE COTTAAAGGGEEEE Y'ALL!!!!!! SO excited for the open windows, fire pit, emotional vulnerability, and POD NAME DROP! Highlights also include gimme kiss while playing mermaids, lovers, momifrewup, and many other silly bits. See y'all next week for a BOOK TALK about BOOKTOK (too much?) and talks about Game Changer: The Book. Thanks for listening!
Sources & References:
How We Write Now; Hijab Butch Blues; Disability, Literature, & Genre by Ria Cheyne; Metrosexuality; Heart Stopper Syndrome; Bury Your Gays; Queer Baiting & Fandom by Joseph Brennan; The Importance of Found Family for LGBTQ+ People; AI Chatbot Psychosis; Mental health resources for USA; Community-based alternatives to policing; Talking to Children About Suicide; Self Soothing and Stimming in Autism Link 1 ; Corrective experiences; Loon Call Podcast; Laila Edwards (GOAT) meeting Megan Thee Stallion (GOAT); Hilary Knight Being Insane; PWHL; Salaries & Contracts (AO3 fanfic); NHL Trade Deadline 3/6; Rent the Cottage on Airbnb; “Yes It’s Scary, But You’re Brave” Fan Art; ilyascigarette tweet; full interview; r0zan0vs tweet; full interview
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Twitter: @srspod
Threads & Instagram: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Since Rookie Season. Well, the summer before. a heated rivalry fan companion podcast where your hosts, Amanda, Lau, and Lauren, break down the episodes from the Crave Canada television series, the Game Changers novels, and various media surrounding this fan
Discussion of Episode Six: The Cottage
00:00:16
Speaker
phenomenon. Today, we're looking into episode six, The Cottage. The final episode of season one. stay with us to melt and cry at the most perfect cottage.
Show Hiatus and Future Plans
00:00:38
Speaker
All right, welcome back. I hope you all enjoyed your week off. I know that we did. We, as always, are trying to determine what makes heated rivalry so addictive. Like, what's in this story and the way that it's given to us? that allows for this amount of obsession and rewatching and screaming about it on threads and all of that good stuff. And today we're going to talk about the last episode, which is so sad because we don't get any until 2027. Like that's... It's so funny.
00:01:13
Speaker
It also means that we need to get creative the rest of the year. Yeah, we're excited to talk about what we're doing next, which we'll we'll explain at the end of the show. so Yes, we have so many so many exciting episodes for y'all. oh Shout out Lauren's parents, who apparently missed us last week. Shout out... Am I? I hope y'all are...
00:01:35
Speaker
ah Hi, Lauren's parents. I don't know you, but I appreciate you. I've met them a couple times.
Friendships and Personal Stories
00:01:41
Speaker
They're nice. Amanda's met my parents, and, like, every time Amanda meets my parents, my parents are like, wait, is this, like, a partner? And I'm like, no, is a man.
00:01:50
Speaker
And if you don't have allegations, you're not true friends. And you know what? If we don't have allegations, like, me and Hailey probably have, like, the craziest allegations from people that we went to high school with because all we do on Instagram when we put stories up is, like, This is the love of my life. And she is.
00:02:07
Speaker
that Friends yeah are the love of our lives. Yeah. I like to say that Amanda and I have like a Connor story, Hudson Williams relationship. Absolutely. We are
Character Analysis and Book Recommendations
00:02:18
Speaker
doing that. Those those freaky theater movements. We are absolutely in the most insane adventures together. I'm Hudson and Amanda is Connor. Yes.
00:02:29
Speaker
Although I don't know if Amanda could ever be a clown. Like, I don't know if that's ever been in your purview. I'm only a clown in the, like, I've made an ass of myself kind of way. but we love that about you. I'm cute enough that I can pull it off. i don't think i I don't think any normal person could pull off the clowning. Like, that is, I've watched videos of it and I get, like, such bad secondhand embarrassment from it. I like i can't do it.
00:02:57
Speaker
yeah Yeah, not for me. Not for me. Not for me. At least he sounds fun in the show. All I mean, well, you know. Sometimes. Maybe a little. I just wanted to add very quickly that I forgot to recommend everyone a book that I think is super on
Show Notes and Recording Challenges
00:03:18
Speaker
topic. Because we're talking a lot about dementia and Ilya's burden on emotionally and like economically with his father being sick and there's there's this beautiful black feminism book written by one of my uh professors from my phd jennifer nash and her book is called how we write now and It is black feminist theory and she weaves her analysis of texts and cultural artifacts with her own experience as she sees her mother deteriorate through like Alzheimer's. And there's a lot of like thinking around womanhood in black spaces and knowing that you have a hereditary condition that you might like, you might be seeing your own future when you see your mother go through that and you have a daughter and she's, she's a great writer. So we're going to put that on the show notes that I know Amanda wanted to remind everyone of.
00:04:25
Speaker
about but yeah it's a great book to think around what it means to see uh someone that a just start to forget who you are who other people are who they are and feel lost and scared sometimes because they cannot remember what is going on awesome thank you for that that's awesome no we'll put it in the show notes for sure Yeah, so speaking of show notes, I know I mentioned it at the end of last episode, but I wanted to put it at the top of the show as well. For most of our episodes, I think starting at the second or third one, we started having a more comprehensive show notes. Shout out Lauren for helping me collect those. Shout out Lauren and Lau for that. But these are different links and references that we make. So further readings, there's some like technical hockey details. There's stuff about like Haitian history and some of the political issues. cultural dynamics and important context there in case ah you want to know more about what we're talking about or even like the goalie fights that I mentioned one time about ah Bruins and the Panthers question mark and when they were fighting there's a clip there of that so again I wanted to shout that out we put effort into those show notes of making hyperlinks and stuff I have stayed up
Personal Experiences and Reflections
00:05:32
Speaker
till 2 a.m. multiple times trying to make sure everything's in order. So, if you want, you can check that out. That would be so great. And this is just a little side note about my recording today. My landlord is doing some renovations in the unit next to mine. So if there's any random noises, I will try to edit them out. But I'm really i'm really sorry if you hear some some fucking hammering or something. I don't know. I wanted to put that here. so Okay.
00:05:56
Speaker
Episode overview. What do we have? ah So we're basically going to the cottage. Yeah. We're going the cottage. Yes. Yes. This is amazing because when this episode came out, it was like around New Year's Eve. So my partner and I were at some sort of cottage in Colombia, in Antioquia. It was in the middle of the mountains. It was from some family member that landed to us because nobody was using it. And we just like got to... experience nature and privacy and it was super fun so i watched the cottage from a cottage ah cottage consumption almost uh-huh and i was sending y'all uh on the discord like a lot of pictures because i was like this is crazy that's awesome yeah
00:06:48
Speaker
I watched it because it came out the day after Christmas. I stayed up until midnight when I was in Indianapolis to watch it. I was supposed to watch the episode with my mom, but then I was like, I literally cannot wait. So I watched it by myself in the bedroom at my parents' house. Wait, you watch heated rivalry with your mother? yeah she listens to the podcast, bro. My mom listens to the podcast now.
00:07:12
Speaker
I know. my mom listens to the podcast. We don't watch it together. I love my mom. well she mostly watched we mostly watched it separately but then we did watch it together it was like there was a point where i was like i feel kind of weird about this but also look at my mom like at this point like i'm a 30 year old person like it doesn't really like pays me anymore or that's awesome I might put my mom on it. I don't know. i don't know if she'd like it. she might she would not. She might it's she might call you and be like, Amanda, are they gay?
00:07:42
Speaker
she would She would do that. She would call me and ask if they were gay. I would say. Amanda, are they gay? don't know. she's But she would like the love in it though. I think she'd appreciate that. um I watched this. You said it came out the day after Christmas. I don't, I'm not going to lie. I don't remember if I watched it. You were moving. Or, well, okay, but there were a couple of days that I was visiting my mom for Christmas and then I left on the 26th. So I might not have watched it until after I was back from my initial trip to where I moved to. Cause I went back to Orlando after Christmas for New Year's. And so I might've watched it when I was back in Orlando. um Yeah, I think it took you a few days so you were like, I'm silencing every single message that's everyone is sending. If my memory... and Your memory is better than mine because that's so true. My memory is very good. yeah careful, be careful because everything you say, I'll remember. ye It's true. It's true. Yeah, i was late because ah i was moving and it sucked real bad and it was one of the worst experiences of my life and I hated it, but I'm here now and I love it here. And I'm here at least now through June, which is great. I got an extension on my job.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yay! Anyway, yes. So, Lao 2017, the summer. Take us there. Tell us about it. Sure. It's not a great year. Let's start by saying that. Yeah. So, summer 2017, it gets better like around September, but summer,
00:09:06
Speaker
the israeli government announces that gaye couples will not be allowed to adopt in israel we will not fall for your rainbow washing propaganda israel we see you for what you are A piece of There is no gay marriage in Israel. If you get married outside of Israel and then you go back, then it it is recognized, but you cannot get married there and gay people cannot adopt. So for everyone, falling for Israel is super queer friendly. is not.
00:09:42
Speaker
Because there is no pride in genocide. Also, in another lovely government, US President Donald Trump announces a ban on transgender people serving in the US s military.
00:09:56
Speaker
But Ireland, as always, is here to save us because Leo Varadkar is selected Tishek, the head of government of Ireland, and he becomes the youngest and first openly gay leader of Ireland. So shout out to Ireland for always, always showing up for us because the US and Israel and other governments are making it super hard. Super hard. and super Super hard. Well, in summer of 2017, I turned 16, and um i know, I know. I got my driver's license, but also on my 16th birthday, my ex-girlfriend cheated on me ah on my birthday during band camp, and it was a whole thing. It was nuts.
00:10:43
Speaker
I only found out later on Tumblr. it was a whole mess. It was crazy. And after that, I was still in a different queer relationship, but... That was a crazy year, for sure. Where were y'all
Scott Hunter and Series Themes
00:10:55
Speaker
in summer of 2017? Well, you your driver's license, at least. It's true. It's true. It was a different type of freedom, but still things were mess.
00:11:04
Speaker
You were literally Olivia ru Rodrigo's driver's license. I license. actually had just moved to Chicago in summer 2017, and and like fell in love with uh summertime chicago if you've never been to summertime chicago please come it's amazing amazing it's beautiful it's gorgeous like it's the best time you'll ever have your life they have so many things at the park yes it honestly makes like this part of chicago when it's like disgusting as hell and 20 degrees like so worth it and like you cherish it so much more So yeah, I had just moved to Chicago. I broke up with the man that I was dating and I started to go into my ah slut era of living in hill Chicago where I was very promiscuous.
00:11:55
Speaker
And you know what? 22 year old Lauren, we love that for you. i was I was happy. I mean, my partner was about to go and leave abroad, but we were having a good time before that. Yeah, it was a fun summer. It wasn't summer technically, but yeah, you know what I mean. So it was cool, nothing to report, which is wild for me. So we're happy about that.
00:12:20
Speaker
Love that. Love that. Very cool. Shane and Ilya are about to go to the cottage for the first time. But before we go there, we got to talk about our boy Scott Hunter. Yeah. Vegas baby. Vegas baby. yeah And the implications of everything that happened after last episode.
00:12:37
Speaker
After last episode. So this is like a month after the Stanley Cup finals happened. Scott Hunter gets the award for being most valuable player in the league, which is voted by all of the other players in the league. And he has this very cutie little speech that Kip and all of his friends are watching at the Kingfisher.
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, and we get a smaller framing on our screen. So it's like TV Inception. Like, you're watching TV inside your TV. So it's it's I like it because even even the quality has like this live streaming yeah air to it.
Queer Representation in Sports
00:13:13
Speaker
I really like how Scott goes from his hands on like the thing where he has his notes to his pockets to the thing again, like supporting himself while he's talking. And the way his voice breaks when he says lonely. Maybe. And then he has this...
00:13:33
Speaker
I love this sentence, fear is a powerful thing. And I know that after that he's like, and I found the thing that it was even more powerful. And that is like his love for Kip.
00:13:44
Speaker
But this is a series about fear, among other things. Fear is like ah a main theme throughout this series. Like not only the TV series, the whole of Game Changers series is about fear and about what fear does to you and how it keeps you inside a closet. So I really like that. um I was reading this amazing memoir, hiab Butch Blues, last week or the week before that. And the author has this sentence that...
00:14:15
Speaker
Like I had to stop the audiobook to think about it because she says i had started. She's she's talking about early adulthood and how she's coming to terms with her sexuality with with their sexuality. And the phrase is I started seeing coming out as inviting in. And I feel that describes this speech so, so perfectly because he is. inviting people into this reality that is queer people in sports and queer people coming out. So I really like that idea of we're always coming out of the closet. We're always going outside and trying to fit in and sometimes framing it as I am gifting you an invitation into who I am. It's a way better, i think. I like it. i felt i felt inspired by that. And I see i see it when I see Scott doing this speech. Yeah. It reminds me also of Grover and the Percy Jackson series where he he says hope is a powerful thing. Because I've just been holding on to that and like repeating that. And so when he said fear is a powerful thing, I was thinking about hope is a powerful thing. So I've just been thinking about hope and love as overcoming fear. Yeah, I think starting off with Scott's speech, because it's not something that you really get in heated rivalry. It's only something you get. Is it even in Game Changers? It's in Game Changers, right?
00:15:42
Speaker
No, I think it is. Yeah, because Kit's in the audience there. Yeah. So like it is a really good juxtaposition between like Scott's story and how like even though Ilya and Shane's story is different and they're like it has a different pathway to it because of just who they are. It still shows that like love is still a very powerful thing for them.
00:16:05
Speaker
So we then kind of move to Shane picking Ilya up from the airport. Shane is super nervous. I love this airport look on Ilya. It's so good. I mean, like I've said before, there was not enough backwards hat representation in this TV show. And this is perfect. I also so just think Ilya in all black is like the hottest thing to me. It's a really good contrast with his very blonde hair. So like anytime I was like thinking about this because we did a post on threads for like Connor Story's birthday, which was like a couple of days ago. And I was like, oh, all of the Ilya looks that I love are when Ilya's in all black. And I was like, and
Humor and Celebrity Privacy
00:16:48
Speaker
you know what? I think that says something about me. I don't know what it is. ah you so be person You're I'm a simple person. Yeah. I want to laugh, Maddie. I think he looks super hot, I agree. Even though I don't usually like the backwards hat. But I laugh so much at the famous people outfits. You know, like the dark glasses. Like they totally noticed him. No, no, no, but, but, but, but. but but but I have a friend who's kind of famous in Latin America and Spain. ah He's a musician, he's in a band. And the way him taking off his glasses makes him invisible to fans. It's crazy. You know, like every single time we go out in public, he will use contact lenses and that way we won't get bothered. Okay, that is crazy because was going to say, like, in Ottawa, where, like, hockey is the, like, life bread of that country, Amanda sent me a tweet last night that it was, like, how does a team where your country is ice for three quarters of the year lose to a team that has alligators in their nation? Like, how does that happen? That one got such a surprise laugh out of me. I was in bed, like, I had have a few minutes to spare before you to put my phone down. Let me go on Twitter. And I saw that, and I hadn't laughed that hard all day. It was awesome. Yeah. So, like, like i just feel like Ilya would have gotten noticed. I feel like Ilya does not also, like, this is a man who's been, a like, tabloided to hell, I'm sure. um But I also think about how, like, Sidney Crosby in Pittsburgh, like, genuinely like people go out of their way to like not recognize him. Like he like is just like a normal everyday figure. Like people like have kind of made it like this, like silent, like agreement that you like, don't bother Sidney Crosby when he's like out and about in Pittsburgh. well Like you don't stop him when he's at the grocery store or anything like that. So I was like, maybe they're giving Ilya that like same kind of like, don't bother the and NHL player when he's out and about. And also, like, i always laugh at this, at the, if you put glasses, but when I saw it in action and I saw it work, I feel so stupid because... You feel so stupid, right. Because people actually just, people don't see. People just don see what they expect. Like, so if you, if you take one element from the equation, you can fool people. and Right, and like, I guess like, and it's also like a, you're not expecting him to be in Ottawa,
00:19:21
Speaker
So, like, why would he be there? You know, but you know the NHL stan girlies on Twitter were going insane about seeing Ilya in Ottawa. Like, yeah you know, somebody said something about it. But, like, like when i every time I fly in and out of L.A. when I've gone – I'm always like, oh my God, I could see a celebrity at LAX. And then that makes me like double, like check everybody. Like, because potentially I could run into a celebrity at LAX. But like, I think actually in my my brain, I'm just like making shit up.
00:19:55
Speaker
You know, see, I was always terrified to see people in Orlando because there were some problematic people in Orlando that I was like, I don't want to be at the same bar as you. Also, now I have I'm in the Cindy Sweeney care zone. Like apparently Cindy Sweeney is at some of the bars that me and my friends have been going to down here. I'm not gonna say where in Florida, but she has a house literally yeah she has a house on the water like down we pass it on our field days leaving the canal like it is like three blocks from somewhere that I need to do a vibe cleanse after yeah go like throw field jeans on that and be like African Americans picked cotton which makes jeans you stupid ignorant bitch
00:20:35
Speaker
but Anyway, we get a bird trill in the title card of this episode.
Intimacy Themes in The Cottage
00:20:40
Speaker
Alone! Yes, which I thought was like such a sweet note. like You only pick up on it on your rewatch because, of course, you're rewatching this, but that was a a fun a fun little note. Lau, you want to tell us about this song that plays? Yeah, so but before that, Amanda, I know you love the Ilya's little... Okay. Okay. I do. And he does it again. There is a, ah what's it called, a compilation of every okay in every that he ever does in the show and it's one of my favorite videos of just okay. yeah Okay. Okay. Yeah. so we get this song called L'anarchie des jours heureux, the anarchy of happy days or of joyful days it would be. by Le Bronze and i realize I really like this because the the lyrics are talking about ah so it starts with ieusjo shoaicu not hobo de femal aselju sole own exist to monto s c two antiro exal deio nocar verme and
00:21:35
Speaker
It's talking about how it's always warm when we're together, like with us. And ah our beauty makes the sun like hurt, you know? It hurts the sun's beauty. And I really like it because the first time we see these two together, first scene of the of the series, it's cold as hell. It's freezing.
00:21:58
Speaker
And suddenly we have this, if fatusjo shuavic knew so now every time we're together, it's warm. oh and i really like it i i i felt like but i felt i felt it was like as such a ah beautiful parallel not only because it's summer and during the summer we get to be ourselves and we get to go to the cottage and not be like these celebrities or anything just ilia and shane together but also because
00:22:28
Speaker
it it It comes full circle circle for me. And the song is beautiful. It has carpe diem energy about like seizing the moment and to like eat it up and do everything and like just enjoy life. And also the voice, like texture or or color of the artist, it communicates both yearning and lightness. So it's setting up the tone for the episode so well. It's like we're no longer in this like very electronic music, percussion, anxiety inducing soundtrack that we used to get during intimacy scenes between these two. in the past now we we get to be soft we get to be fluid we get to be warm um which is a great segue to the whole i would like to relax with you and um i i love it i i think that jacob tourney is a mastermind in how he announces at the beginning of the episode what the tone is going to be Right? like Except for episode 4 that it was made for us to like feel very, very high and happy so we will crash down and cry by the end. I think every single episode, apart that one, it's been very clear on what you should expect and what the vibes are ah from the first seconds or minutes of the episode. So I just love this moment. I love this song. I think, again,
00:24:03
Speaker
that to me is super important that we're getting music in different languages so we don't get a fully anglophone soundtrack. um And I think people are diversifying their playlists because of this, so that's cool. Yeah, no, I love this song. It was, it's definitely one of like my most replayed from the album, even though I don't understand a word they're saying. I just like love the French music that's a part of this, like... series, they're it's all so good. so The car is like super a super sweet scene because they're both like, are you terrified? Because I'm terrified. And they're holding hands and just being very cutie and I love that they have this like little moment and then it's like very much paralleled in like the next scene when they like after Shane brings Ilya to the house he carries his bag in which is like so daddy and it also like calls back to that tweet where it was like um Shane looks like he would carry Rose's bags and all of her like hopes and dreams like I'm sure Ilya is thinking exactly about that tweet when he uh when shane carries his bag into the house but then when they settle onto the couch it's like when they're making out on the couch and they stop and shane's like let's be honest with one another like the moment in the car and then the moment on the couch they're both these like really good like like parallels of like trust and like intimacy in a way that we haven't seen with them before and i think that's like one of the beautiful parts of this episode is we get Like a very different Shane and Ilya almost in a way. Yeah, Shane is supposedly at a silent retreat. And I was taking notes for this and I was like, the thing we could never do, a silent retreat. That's so funny because my therapist literally told me a couple weeks ago, she was like, I was like, man, I just talk so much. And I like, I just have to say everything that comes to my mind. Like it's such an impulse. And she was like, you're a very verbal processor. Like you have to talk through things in order to understand them. i was like, you're so, right I do have to do that I have to rehash everything all of the time I was sick a couple weeks ago and I there was a time I didn't talk at all from like Thursday to Sunday just because i was home alone and just like texting people and not like on the phone but I yeah I am I'm such a yapper and if you let me talk I will yes exactly no and that's why that we have a podcast truly
00:26:23
Speaker
ah exactly With episodes that never, never go below the two-hour mark. So, yeah. And we're not sorry about it. Nope. No.
00:26:34
Speaker
Literally. We're not, we're not, we're not sorry at all. Just listen in chunks. fine. Exactly. So, they do this scene in, like, one shot,
Glass Cottage Symbolism
00:26:42
Speaker
which I, like, literally, like, in one take, I don't understand how they, like, from when they get out of car... to when they get like onto the show, show you to the room, that's one take. Okay, so this has a lot of technique involved. First of all, you need to make sure that the lights are right so you don't see the camera reflected on all the glass that you have, all the windows. So that's one thing that you have to do. You have to block the scene. So you have to
00:27:10
Speaker
make sure everyone knows where to stand when. And they, I know that all this because i I was obsessed with the show Adolescent and that show is all one-ers.
00:27:22
Speaker
So all one shots. Every episode is just one shot. You can even hear the audio change like from when they are outside when they get in the house. There's just a slight change in the audio.
00:27:33
Speaker
um because It took me a couple rewatches before I was like, hold the fuck up. They did not cut this at all. So that means like they're remembering all of the lines. They remember where they're yeah going. Just like the perspective shifts between them. think It's really beautifully done. So you have to... like They approach this very much... like Usually when when a series or a film is doing this, they approach it as theater would. you, because you have to do it, like there's no way to edit anything out. So you have to do multiple takes. And I think adolescence is like the big example of one-ers in the last year because of how long the the non-cut scenes are, like the full episode. But it's it's about like blocking everyone knows where they go. Every single camera knows like how to move. We make sure that we don't get the reflection of the camera on the glass. We make sure nobody drops anything. You need to lock You cannot miss a line and laugh because then everyone has to start all over again. And of course, they are using natural light here. So you need to, like, if you don't get the good take, eventually you need to stop and start all over again the following day. so this is like, everyone is talking about it, but it's because it's quite impressive. And it it it helps build this beautiful, beautiful, like feeling of being introduced to this space. So it works really well. It's perfect. And they almost knocked out the lamp. yeah and i'm so glad that they could like keep it without having to start all over again yeah no no whoa who who whoa whoa like no and that just is like a i like how real that is like i like that they're like laughing they're like knocking into shit like like that just like it feels very like this is real sex you know like this is a real intimate scene like And yeah, I love this scene. And then they go down onto the couch and like, i just, they're like, my God.
00:29:45
Speaker
i I think that I noticed this time, remember how Shane goes to Ilya's place and asks if he should take off his shoes? And he's like, no, you're fine. Now they get to the cottage and before Ilya enters the cottage, he like cleans his shoes with the mat that is at the entrance and then takes it off inside as soon as he enters. So it's like he's settling into this space in a very respectful way. And I love it. And I wanted to cry when I saw that. yeah yeah i think like shane asks like i know it culturally is a thing and like i know in both like russian and in asian culture it is like common for you to take off your shoes when you enter into somebody's house um i know that's a like cultural thing in a lot of people's cultures i think elia is kind of like trying to be like you know a little aware of that um but yeah like him like looking around when he's taking off his shoes And being like, wow, Mr. Real Estate, Mr. Landlord. Like this is, I'm like, you know, like it just is, it goes to show that like Ilya like truly never expected to be here. Like he he thought like the all that he was ever going to see of the cottage was that dumb documentary that Shane did. But now he like actually gets to be there and see it in person. Like you even can see that when he's like following Shane up the stairs to go to the bedroom. He's like looking around at the like what's going on around him. He's so he's so cutie. Which Shane also, he says, I can give you a tour. It's so Canadian.
00:31:30
Speaker
I didn't even go to the phone loud. It's so Canadian. Like, I know it's a Canadian-produced show. I know. You don't have to tell me it's from Grave. I know it's from Grave. But when i just every time I hear, Tuer, and then later he says, Pasta, instead of Pasta, it just it takes me out so quick and just reminds me so quickly that it's Canadian that I was like, LOL, Tuer. Tuer?
00:31:52
Speaker
him Him like doing them doing that like little roleplay where he's like, I'll be your bellboy. Like, okay, can we talk about that? Can we talk about that real quick? Wait, wait, wait, wait, let's before we get to that. Okay. I know we're gonna just lose our minds there. So hold your horses. Shane is not wearing any socks. We see that when he goes to the couch.
00:32:16
Speaker
Well, like, no shit. It's hot as fuck out. Like, he's wearing boat shoes. He's not gonna know. I know. I'll wear jackets later, though. Ilya is wearing socks. And Shane had been consistently wearing socks during sex the first two episodes. So that's why I'm pointing that out. And also the cottage. Let me just pause for a second to say what a beautiful home.
00:32:39
Speaker
It's so beautiful. I love how this very private cottage that we have told Ilya is very private. Is is all glass. Surrounded by, yeah, it's all glass. And I love it because I just keep thinking about like the closet is glass. But I love it because it it it really is like, it's private, but it's not hidden. Right. And that again sets the tone for what we're getting. But also the design of the home, the design of this cottage, the lightness of the materials, the simplicity, because it is very elegant. I am sure everything costs a lot of money there. But everything is very simple, the shapes, the colors, the patterns. It's very fluid, the space, like you you navigated in a warner, so you could not like film a warner in a different type of like floor plan. It would be harder. And it's super bright, so again, like echoing the song the vibes from the song ah and and at the car, like we're getting a very light version of this relationship.
00:33:45
Speaker
and are very simple and and and it's going to be comfy, but at the same time it's not going to be like full of obstacles and layers. We're going to see them very naked, very visible through the glass, you know? So I think even the architecture is sending us messages about what we're about to experience. And I love it and it's also very aesthetically pleasing to me. Yeah, you wrote in here, a private cottage full of windows is very symbolic and I i thought that was very cool as well. Yeah.
00:34:15
Speaker
And now we can go nuts with the bellboy. Yeah. Yeah. Our bellboy. Our bellboy moment. Can we talk about the Twitter trend right now? When this comes out, I don't know if it'll s still be a trend, but there is a trend on Twitter right now where people are writing out the...
00:34:31
Speaker
It's like Shane colon. So and then it's like some like scenario people have been going crazy. Some people are projecting their own fetishes, which is like, okay, you do you but also last we can see right through it. You don't need to be doing all that. But like some people are are writing like okay so we're in a hockey rivalry and in yearre from what and it's a whole thing it's just different like role play situations that Shane would absolutely be putting them through and so in some of the tweets like it continues with Ilya either like pushing back or like being like bro no um but some of them are like Shane is so kinky and it's so funny and I really hope that you are online seeing this Shane's autistic ass would never role play he's doing it right here
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think he would. i think he's like joking around. I don't think he would ever like sexually roleplay. i think he would. i I think he definitely would. Because separating himself. Yeah. yeah he was separate And separating himself from the idea that he has of himself. It's helpful sometimes to just let go. Yeah, I guess. But I just, I don't know.
00:35:35
Speaker
I can't picture him because like, I mean, sure, I roleplayed before, but like... Hi mom. Hi mom! ah This is why just told my mom about my fashion projects. We know that you two have a very, very trusty relationship and you share all that stuff. Listen, listen. No, like...
00:36:04
Speaker
My mom is like a nurse. And so like when I was younger, I was just open with her about like a lot of the stuff that was happening to me because like in case there was an issue where I was like, I think I might be getting an STD or, you know, like something like that. And that is super really cool.
00:36:21
Speaker
It's just something that's continued into, into my adulthood. So I support it. No, I'm, I'm, I'm super happy for you. I'm like trying to justify it. Um,
00:36:33
Speaker
Anyways, back to Shane roleplaying. I just can't see Shane roleplaying. Like, I think Shane is already like, so focused on being like, Mr. Bottom Eyes. He literally can't do anything else. Like, I think he is literally like, as soon as Ilya touches him, he's like 404. Like, we see this later when he's on the phone call with Hayden. Like, he is like 404 error. Like, you can't have the phone call with Hayden when Ilya is touching him. But he probably roleplays during foreplay. And then Ilya touches him and it goes through the window. Listeners, let us know what you think. Let us know. Do you think Shane is into roleplay? Lauren's mother, what do you think?
00:37:22
Speaker
My mom's gonna be like, what the fuck? Why do you guys keep talking about me? Because it's awesome. And I love your parents. she will actually be like, no, I'm amazing. Because she is. She'll be like, no, keep talking about me. She sounds amazing.
00:37:36
Speaker
We forgot to mention the it's been it's been a long time and I haven't and Shane's grin. Super happy about it. I literally put on the notes he's so colindy. He's so excited. like You think can tell him he's going to fucking Disney World, bro. He's like, wait, you haven't fucked any bitches? You haven't fucked any bitches? I'm the only bitches? miss her.
00:37:57
Speaker
He does the cutest thing, i have an idea, and he just laughs at himself because he's so embarrassed that he's gonna so vulnerable. Open vulnerable! and it's I love that we get to see this Shane. I love it. Like, it's such a departure from the Shane that we've seen. Like, this brings me back to life. This is the Shane that foreplays with roleplay. Shut the fuck
00:38:24
Speaker
This brings me back to the aquarium when Shane's like, damn, Hayden, you want to get me pregnant
Family Dynamics and Trauma
00:38:29
Speaker
too? Like, like this secretly funny Shane like is really coming out of this. Shane is so funny. He's so funny. No one gets him like I do because he's so funny. Well, ah no one gets him like we do because we're all autistic and so is he. so They proceed to then have sex in the bedroom. After Shane tries to close the shades. And Ilya's like, no, no, no, no. Because we're done fucking in the dark, buddy. We're done. We're done. We're fucking in the sunshine now. We're not going back.
00:39:03
Speaker
The Niple Pinching. The nipple pinch, the hunger, and the breathing. Ilya is a equal opportunity lover. He is a titty man in both genders. That is his emotional support titty and his emotional support nipple. Do not take them from him. Something bad will happen to you. And we know something is wrong with me because we're getting all this very horny and beautiful thing and all I'm thinking is look the glass!
00:39:34
Speaker
The hands on the glass! Okay, we all know Shane was immediately as soon as they were done, Shane was like, let's take a shower, let's brush our teeth, and then I'm gonna get those handprints off of the glass. The Windex was out as soon as they came. And then he was like, and now I'm going to go make eight burgers. And okay.
00:39:58
Speaker
First of all, this is such an autism thing because like, this like, I cannot have a recipe to save my life. Like I, it does not work. I will always make more food than I need. Like, no, dude, it doesn't. I can't not make it exactly. can't do it. I can't do it. But also because of autism, I can't do it because I can't count. I can't do math. Well, yeah, you have dyscalculia. I have ADHD. No, the other thing is these are two professional hockey players. They would have totally eaten eight burgers. Like, I'm just saying. Yeah. They would have absolutely eaten eight burgers. Like, wasn't Connor eating, like, eight pounds of ground beef a day on set? Not eight a day, but yes, multiple pounds, yes. Multiple pounds of ground beef a day on set. Like, these two motherfuckers would have eaten all of those burgers. Like, do not even try me.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yes. We also get boring count number eight. This is our last boring count of the show, but it is number eight. They're talking about David and Yuna, but he was saying about how you get boring from them. They were talking about his looks. He says, I'm pretty sure he gets, it says like you get the cute looks from your mom and then the boring from your dad or something again, which David gets a lot of shots from Ilya. This is I think another time, think it was in the bathroom scene where he'd called David boring again. Well, I think it's totally like reasonable that Ilya does a lot of shots at David because like Ilya has only seen men and father positions in negative ways his whole life. Like he's only experienced fatherhood in a negative way, which is why think it's fascinating. He's fascinated David. I was just wondering if David was also autistic.
00:41:46
Speaker
I mean, probably somebody's gotta be, but it is genetic, you know? Wow. Genetic. No, I was like, you do like how, how my English has improved Lauren.
00:41:59
Speaker
yeah Are you reading The New Yorker? Probably. No, but my father does. Exactly. Wow, The New Yorker. Genetic. No, I think, I mean, Ilya doesn't understand, like, Shane's relationship with his parents because, like, Shane is very close to them and Ilya does not have, like, that modeled for him, you know? So it's like, It's very weird for him to experience that Shane is very close to his dad and that he likes his dad because he didn't have that himself. So he doesn't understand why Shane is so obsessed with his dad who seems really boring. Because Billy is obsessed with his He doesn't understand him watching hit the rivalry with his mother. Are you going to keep calling me out for this whole episode?
00:42:42
Speaker
I'm gonna call my mom. I'm gonna call my mom and I'm gonna be like, Lau was so mean to me on the episode today that we watched Idiot and Rivalry together. is payback for every single time that you have made fun of my love for JJ. I've never made fun of your love for JJ. We literally did last episode, bro. I just listened to that. was just editing it. I've never made fun of you for JJ.
00:43:11
Speaker
I'm being attacked right now. It's okay. It all comes wrong because y'all attacked me about the other stuff. It's fine. that's Yeah, yeah. And your mom.
00:43:24
Speaker
Your mom in a different way. I'm going to talk about it again, too. I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. Okay, so we get the, like, Ilya asking about Shane's parents. And do they know about you? Of course not. Know about you.
00:43:43
Speaker
And um I love how for Shane, because I relate to this. I do. Hi, mom. they't Like, not being able to separate his coming out to his love for Ilya is so relatable. Like, Ilya says, like, you don't need to give them a list of all the guys you're fucking. But... People do ask, like, how did you find out? And if you found out because you fell in love like a fool with someone else.
00:44:08
Speaker
Right. um How do you not talk about that? like it is Right. sometimes Sometimes your queer awakening is a high velocity train that just takes you by surprise and just kills you. And then it's very difficult not to link both that queer awakening with your coming out.
Outdoor Scenes and Weather Humor
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like, Shane doesn't know how to separate the two. Like, in his mind, because, like, Ilya's one of the only people he's, like, slept with, you know? Or, like, the only person that he's, like, as they mentioned later, like, the only person he's been in love with. Like it's so intrinsically tied into this, which I think is, you know, like one of the reasons why Shane has never but come out to his parents because he like, yeah yeah he can't separate the two because he sees it as like they're intertwined with one another and they can't, he can't separate them in his head. Yep. Yeah, they're so inextricably tied. Absolutely. Yeah, he yeah there is no separation for him. I also really appreciated the shot of Ilya's hand pulling off of Shane's lap as Shane gets up. He's like emotionally pulling away a little bit.
00:45:11
Speaker
It's a little sad because we know they are at the cottage supposed to be so emotional with each other and more open and vulnerable. And for him, he he's pulling away just because he's not, he doesn't want to talk about that with Ilya right now. And obviously he's going to be forced to later, but he's He's just right now he's still getting his own mind wrapped around his queerness and his feelings for Ilya. And so trying to get his parents for that is just too much for him in the moment.
00:45:34
Speaker
And then our next moment is one of the best ones. The fire pit. Shout out to the that electricity bill. Okay, also, like, the doors being open in the cottage, like, just letting bugs in all the fucking time? Jesus Christ. They left the car windows down when they first got there, and I was like, girl, what? The bugs. You're gonna get something there. The bugs, sir. They would never survive the tropics.
00:45:59
Speaker
Are there ticks in Canada? Because you got like, ticks, mosquitoes. i'm I'm sure there's probably, like, snakes or, like, small critters. Like, what are y'all doing? What are y'all doing?
00:46:11
Speaker
These two men will never survive to the tropics. Also, I headcanon that Ilya is, like, very afraid of spiders and, like, will not kill any, like, bugs in the house. Like, yeah I headcanon that he's he's very afraid of, like, small insects. love this.
00:46:26
Speaker
I support. I support that. Also related to like the summer stuff and all that, they wear, have a pet peeve. It's with this and with Percy Jackson. I know it's like a costuming thing, but they're wearing jackets in the summer. I don't get it. Why are they wearing jackets in the summer? Because cold at night, Amanda. Yeah, it's cold at night. That doesn't make any sense. What do you mean? It's the summer. No, because like, no, it's not. Like when the sun goes down up north, it's cold. It's like in the 60s at night. Yeah. Why? That doesn't make any sense. That's all the weather. I don't know. warm. Moon, not warm. Dark, cold. To me, I'm like, it's summer. It's just hot all of the time. No, because you live in Florida. You've never experienced another climate. Amanda, my friend, I'll take your hand when I say this. lived in New Zealand for six months.
00:47:17
Speaker
You and I live in situations where weather is following different logics than what the north is like. And having been in Chicago during the summer, I can say yes, efectivamente, when you lose sunlight, it's cold as hell. So you need a jacket. Like, I would say, like, in June, it'll be, like, light jacket weather. Or I'll, like, take a sweatshirt with me when I go somewhere. Because, like, by the time I get home, like, I used to go this, like, Soffit collective, and we would have beach events. And, like, as soon as the sun sets, it gets pretty cool. And then if you're trying to, like, make it home and you're in a swimsuit, you're to freeze. Like, it's just cold. I suppose this makes sense in places with no humidity because humidity holds the moisture and so here it's still humid at night and so it holds the moisture. No, no, no, no, no
00:48:09
Speaker
ten blocks away from me like it's still fucking human as how yes i just don't understand this but i did to be clear i have not lived there was the six months i lived in new zealand i want to shout that out it was during their winter but i just to me i don't know just something doesn't compute about that because i'm like why are you wearing jacket and in percy jackson they're wearing jackets during the day and i'm like you're in supposed to be in new york like i don't buy it no it's cold up in the caskills and in the summertime like you like i always when we go up and in like vacation in michigan in the summer like i always bring a sweater with me because i know one night One time i was in North Dakota in June and it was really cold and we I was wearing like three hoodies. But like, i it just, I don't know. I just, to me, it's just so like, if it's going to be summer. I have like pictures of myself on the 4th of July in a sweatshirt and jeans. What? Same.
00:49:00
Speaker
No, 4th of July is for being like mostly naked. like so Amanda doesn't, can't differentiate between white men. Yeah. And doesn't understand weler i understand weather. I understand northern weather. I weather. think you will be very happy here in Colombia. You should come. I think you should just move to Chicago because it's so fun in the summertime. And that's why we do that's why we do fire pits in the summertime or bonfires or whatever you want to call them is because it's cold night.
00:49:31
Speaker
yeah fucking whatever we have to do that but it's the buffering buffering amanda 404 does not confuse so anyway but it gives them an excuse to cuddle if it's like a little breezy or whatever they're like well i think they're also both wearing shorts so also like man don't northern behavior though those things oh my god amanda i saw someone on campus in shorts today and it was 18 degrees outside Yeah, that one I understand. That's like an Ohio thing as well. Like people, it's a very, what part Midwest are you from if you wear shorts in the snow? That part you understand, but you don't understand like jackets during summer nights? I very confused. understand them wearing shorts in the, I don't know, because people are dumb and wear shorts in the cold. It's the same way I see people in hoodies in the summer because the AC is blasting so much. You get cold in lecture halls. And so people across campus wearing hoodies, they don't take it off, but I get that. Wow.
00:50:24
Speaker
Lauren's face! i i Okay, you're going to come to Chicago ah in a temperate summertime when it's like 75 during the day or like even gets into the 80s, but then it drops into like the low 70s at night and that's chilly. I mean, I've seen people in parkas. in full length parkas when it's been 68 in Florida. So you have really no fucking... if you can I have seen people in full blown winter coats, like in 70 degree weather in Florida.
00:50:58
Speaker
I mean, to be clear, the weather right now where I'm at, it it says it's 60 degrees, but the windchill is making it feel like 40. So sometimes it depends on where you're at. yeah the baseball amanda when amanda comes to visit me in chicago in the summertime they're gonna be like i'm cold as soon as it's below 80 and i'm gonna be like well guess what here's where your sweater yeah anyways so they're hanging out in a bonfire in sweaters or long sleeve shirts i also love this long sleeve shirt on ilia too um they're fine yeah they're both so hottie them sitting there talking about Rose. This is so funny to me. Ilya is so jealous of Rose. Like that's
Autistic Traits and Family Trauma
00:51:38
Speaker
hilarious. And it's just the way that Shane feels about Svetlana too. Like it goes both ways. Yeah. No, it's so. Ilya, I'm gay. Ilya, I'm gay.
00:51:48
Speaker
Not so gay that you couldn't fuck Rose Landry. It was a disaster both times. I'm not going to go into details. Disaster how?
00:52:00
Speaker
ah set that boundary Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then they, uh, that's when we hear our famous wolf bird. Yes. So now you speak bird, another gay autism moment. I will say we almost named this podcast, something similar about stupid Canadian wolf bird or something. I will say there, I think there is another heated rivalry podcast that is something about that loon call or something there. Yep. It's called loon call. Yeah. Nice one. Cool. don't know them. I don't know them.
00:52:30
Speaker
Hi Loon Call, if you're listening. my Loon Call. I don't know that they know us. I did not know them. You should tag them next time. Because I looked for Heated Rivalry podcast before we started and I didn't find them. Yeah, no, no, no. They they came out after us.
00:52:43
Speaker
Oh. Then we transition to deep talk. And now Shane is the one soothing Ilya after all of these episodes of seeing Ilya soothe Shane. There's no eye contact, which I thought was really relevant.
00:52:54
Speaker
And Ilya soothing himself. like It's like Shane was observing and has learned. that Ilya soothes himself in his ears and and and and head. So as soon as we get into like very vulnerable and emotionally hard territory, you can see Shane's hands not being super invasive, but signaling like, this is okay, I am here. Yeah. And I find that whenever they have deep conversations, they don't make eye contact, which is so real. Like, i struggle with eye contact already, but for, like, serious conversations, it is so hard. And I know that it's, like, head-on-lap moment, but it's so much easier to just stare into the fire and talk to each other than make eye contact. I also hate that the like I understand that this is how it is in the book but like I hate that the loon call interrupts like the story that Ilya is like telling about his mom but I like I see the use for it because it like shows that there is still like communication communication issues between the two of them and like the loon call like acts as like the physical embodiment of that but I hate it being there I hate it being there And also because it's a really heavy topic.
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah. And sometimes I appreciate when we get like those moments because we do get like that interrupted and all that. But Shane is still very open signaling to Ilya like, if you want to come back to the deep stuff, I'm here. Ilya says that she died, like Irina died, it was an accident, she accidentally swallowed a lot of pills. And I think the book the book is clearer about why he does this. This is because his father would say like, it was an accident, it was an accident. But Ilya found her, so he knows. And I i think this, I mean... we
00:54:38
Speaker
it's It's not surprising that Ilya's father sucks at this point, right? Right. But you can and you should be very honest to children about suicide. Against what we were told and what was believed when we were young, the idea of suicide is not contagious. Talking about suicide is not something that is going to cause more suicide to happen. It's actually what prevents it. So asking direct questions about suicide can...
00:55:05
Speaker
save someone's life and if you have children in your family and you just experience the loss of someone you'll love because of suicide it is very important that in a very children appropriate way you do explain it because if not it's gonna hurt like they know that something else is going on they can pick up on maybe they they they cannot make sense of what is going on but they can feel it and it will affect them so it is important to actually talk to them of course avoid graphic details but do say explain what suicide is in a very children appropriate way go to a professional if you don't know how to have the conversation but do have the conversation and you can see here like how how resentful ilia is for this like And of course, Ilya's father was not trying to protect Ilya, he was trying to protect the family reputation with this lie. But the lie is hurtful and it's traumatizing.
00:56:02
Speaker
And so he makes he makes this joke and Shane is kind of like taken aback by by it. He's like, oh. accident pills yeah oh suicide and I love how even though he's like shocked he remains calm and he focuses on soothing Ilia that's growth because the Shane from episode 1 and 2 would not have known to do that so we're growing We're promising. Yeah. I think about, i don't remember where I saw it. It was probably on threads at some point, but like we talk about Irina lot in this episode, Ilya's mother. And somebody pointed out that like Ilya has like a very like romanticized, like version of Irina and that like possibly what was actually happening was that Ilya was like caring for his mentally ill mother throughout his life even as a child.
00:56:59
Speaker
And that like he maybe has like distanced himself in some way, shape or form as a way to like protect his memory of his mother. But that like most likely that he, you know, like unintentionally like suffered a lot of trauma throughout his childhood with having a mentally ill parent that didn't start and end with Irina's suicide. And so that's something I think a lot about. And like, especially as we think about like Ilya's own mental health struggles that we encounter in the long game and how like in romance novels, like.
00:57:35
Speaker
something we talk about when we talk about like disability studies is that like a disability in the romance novels is seen as like a interrupter of the happily ever after there's a great work by believe their last name is cheyenne but i've quoted it before in my work or i've cited it before And it's just that like people in romance novels who are disabled often think that they are not like deserving of like love because of their disability. And this is something that we run into a lot with Ilya in the long game is that he doesn't think like he is worth like Shane's love and adoration because he's mentally ill. And that's maybe why he takes so long to talk about his mental illness with Shane. But that like
00:58:17
Speaker
Ultimately, in romance novels, the way disability is like solved in some shape or form so that like there is no like stop to the happily ever after that like disabled characters don't get to be disabled and have a happily ever after and have romance. And so I think like Irina's story kind of shows some side to that, like of being mentally ill and not getting to have like a happily ever after. Whereas Ilya is kind of in the exact difference to that. So I think that's ah like an interesting side to it as well. But I also think about like when I taught I taught like middle school for like six months i as a student teacher. And I had like, you know, 12, 13, 11, 12, 13 year olds. I had middle schoolers. And a lot of my students were refugee students. And like, I would be able to tell like the students that were like, like i would get a group of seventh graders and I would be like half of these students are like way more emotionally immature. They are definitely even almost like on the level of like high schoolers. They have like just more understanding of the world around them and like, et cetera. Whereas then I would have a group of like very sheltered, like younger children.
00:59:30
Speaker
who just like were like needing to have people get them on the bus and like take them to lunch and things like that. And so like it makes me think about how Ilya as a child probably knew that his mom committed suicide, but that that language is like specifically what his father told him to say.
00:59:51
Speaker
like yeah Yeah. Because of, like, i mean, this is what we talked about before with, like, high context versus low context. Like, damaging the face. Like, Irina showing that things were not perfect in this family. Like, made Ilya's father resent her. And made the way that he talked about her death to Ilya, like, a really negative way. Which also then might have given Ilya, like, the like recourse to be like, oh, no, this was...
01:00:18
Speaker
like my mother was actually a really good person you know she didn't suck when that might not be the truth yeah mental health issues with parents is very hard on children especially one is not managed with transparency and good support and one of the kids ends up being the caretaker that uh really sucks and that this is a great segue into something I realized with the next scene when they're like waking up and Ilya's like has his mouth open, and breathing through his mouth. And the first thing he says as he wakes up is, I
Mental Health and Relationship Dynamics
01:00:53
Speaker
like. And I think many times during this series, the door to Ilya's emotions and vulnerabilities is being heard when talking about Irina.
01:01:02
Speaker
And that makes a lot of sense because his whole emotional trauma stems from that loss and from that inability to talk about her because I am sure he was never allowed to talk about her after she died. Right? So every single time that he is able to talk about her and be heard and not be invalidated, it's a moment where he feels safer and safer and the wound is um able to heal a bit. So that is why almost like seconds later or the the morning after, he gives Shane some vulnerability after because he feels safe because of that. And I really like that because it is very real on how people who have put walls between them and the world emotionally because of a traumatic event in their childhood, how that traumatic event becomes the gatekeeper of their emotions in in a sense. And until you are able to feel safe to talk about the dark stuff, you won't be able to talk about anything else that is related to your real emotional situation. So I love it because it does do justice to people like Ilya and to the complexities so of his mental health and what yeah we are hopefully seeing next season. Yeah, for sure. Also, I love that my cat Bones just climbed into my lap when we were talking about this because he was like, you need emotional support right now. I noticed that too. As soon you were talking about it, I was like, aw, hi, Boney. Even though literally I opened the door and he tried to escape today. He'd come back. The duality of cat. Would he? i don't think he would. I think he would. You have like regular food and love and cuddles and stuff. I think he would. Would you come back? The duality of cat.
01:02:52
Speaker
The duality of cat. He's really trying to beg to go on the back porch is really what he's trying to do. It's still cold, Boney Money. No. We go out there every night after dinner. We go take a walk on the porch.
01:03:05
Speaker
Well, I think that mental health and illness is very important in both sides of Holonov because I think that, yes, Ilya, his mental illness is definitely more prominent in the relationship, but I think that Shane struggles as well. with like especially looking at the long game with like that eating disorder that is definitely like a mental health thing but in somewhat enter it doesn't and interfere with their relationship but it is at points like a um a more point of contention for them I would say I would argue that it does but I can save that for me
01:03:37
Speaker
True. Yeah, we'll talk about him in the long game, but I wanted to bring it up as well. um And it's not as prevalent here, but Ilya really loves Shane's idiosyncrasies that come, or like, he appreciates them and holds space for Shane's idiosyncrasies in a way that... Relating more to his like autism in a way, which autism is not like a a mental illness. um It has related mental illnesses, but like that's why we get things like Holland, are you were having a panic attack? Like that kind of thing where he is able to help Shane kind of come down from that and from when he is in those like very like big emotional states. But I think that Shane's mental illness will become something for them as well in the way that Ilya's mental illness is. It's just something they both have to work on together and separately and it helps them to be stronger in their relationship. Mm-hmm. yeah be stronger to get yeah those are my thoughts so then we get we get a few boys being boys moments in in this episode but one of them cover the fucking game like i love that they're swapping places i just love it yes love that like a beautiful detail and connor's story ilia is so hot in this scene and i love his silly gestures like i'm in the coven of the fucking game and the whole hand like that's so gagging it's It just kills me. It just kills me. I'm i'm not um' um i'm feral.
01:04:57
Speaker
Feral for this scene. yeah Just because of the silly tank top and his silly mannerisms and the fact that I have a photo of Corey mimicking Ilya. I need all of y'all to run to the Instagram or our socials right now and look at this Quidditch picture that is the exact, it is the embodiment, it is perfect. It is like like, the corporate needs you to find the difference between these two images and there is no difference. It is that. Please go look.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's amazing. It's so good. Yeah, I love their, like, little banter here. i love that Montreal Metro's sweater. I just think it's really cute, and I'm so upset that I can't, like, I can't physically get it because I hate Montreal. Lauren, I have a question for you. Because Amanda was a baby, but do you remember...
01:05:45
Speaker
Do you remember the whole metrosexual trend? was there for that. yeah you were there for that, okay. Because every time I hear the Montreal metros, that is what comes to mind. And you know what? It's honestly, like, I would not put it past Jacob Tierney to have done that on purpose. Because Ilya says something like, i was i always wonder what it would be like to be a metro.
01:06:08
Speaker
And my millennial brain was like, what? What do mean? You want to be gay? Excuse me, sir. Also, the Montreal Canadiens are not the best team in sport. i will say it is the Yankees at this point in time. Really? Yeah, the Montreal Metros have won. um The Montreal Metros. The Canadians um have won. They've won the most Stanley Cups.
01:06:34
Speaker
twenty four wow They want it in 1916, 1924, 1930, 31, 44, 46, 53.
01:06:44
Speaker
fifty three 56, 57, 58, What? 59, 60. 65, 66, 68, 69, 71, 73, 76, 77, 78, 79, 86, and 93. Damn. And so they haven't won in hot minute. So they had that like regular streak getting multiple times decade and they still haven't won since the 90s? Yes. will say that the, like when they were winning in like the there was only six teams.
01:07:11
Speaker
like when they were winning in like the nineteen twenty s there was only six teams So that was the first thing. um They're called the original six. It's Boston, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, and New York. Those are the original six teams. So their early times, they were there were only six. um Then there was an NHL expansion in... I don't remember when the first and NHL expansion was. There were six franchises added in 1967. And the Canadians, the Montreal Canadians have been largely against all of the NHL expansions um because they don't want to like ah to divide up like the market in Canada. And so currently there are only seven Canadian teams and 25 U.S. teams. The most recent expansions gave us the Las Vegas Golden Knights in 2017. Boo.
01:08:09
Speaker
The Seattle Kraken in 2021. I don't have anything to say about that. And then the Utah Mammoth um in 2024. They are originally the Arizona Coyotes, but the fran franchise folded, deactivated, and then they moved it to Utah. There are also six additional cities that have expressed interest in expansion, which include Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Indianapolis, and New Orleans. Interesting. But yeah, um now, so the Canadians have had 24 and the Yankees have had 27 World Series championships. The Yankees are the best in sport, unfortunate un
Women's Hockey and Inclusivity
01:08:49
Speaker
unfortunately. Unfortunately.
01:08:50
Speaker
I have been getting into hockey lately, especially with the Olympics. I have been, want to keep up with the rest of the season. I don't know where to watch or who to watch, but it helps that my, one of my colleagues at work is really into the Maple Leafs. And so I can ask him my dumb questions and then show him memes and we get to talk about it. I love that. I tried. You should have watched the PWHL. All of their games are streamed on YouTube. Yeah. Because after what happened with the U.S. men's Olympic team this weekend... We think about it. We're not going to, you know, associate ourselves with any men's hockey teams anymore.
01:09:26
Speaker
No. It is only women's hockey from here on out. I personally, for women's hockey, I like the Minnesota Frost just because they're closest to me. The women's hockey players that we hate... are Britta Curl because she's a TERF and a MAGA. And supposedly Abby Murphy is not great either, but we love Hillary Knight. We love Layla Edwards. We love Sarah Nurse. There are so many great female athletes. We love lesbian hockey here. So absolutely. The other thing that you always can do is you can get a flow hockey membership, which is like the AHL games, the ECHL games, college hockey is usually on there and like other minor league. I think you can watch like ah Canada Junior Leagues on there as well.
01:10:12
Speaker
um So that's like if you want to watch outside of the and NHL. But I would highly suggest the PWHL. um and i think i'm gonna go to the pwhl expansion like they are like doing a game in chicago soon so i'm excited because i think i'm gonna go with a bunch of gay people which would be fun where were we okay we're talking about they're talking that they're playing the video game and hating the equivalent of like what my brother used to play fifa manager but yeah the nhl hockey game is a real game oh
01:10:42
Speaker
I know. I know. It's made by yeah e I just come from a football culture. So that's what boys are into here. And my brothers, my brothers will play like obsessively. Yeah. So if actually last year, Jack Hughes, the guy who scored the gold winner. Oh, with the teeth dating Addison Rae.
01:11:02
Speaker
Yes. He was on the cover of NHL 2025. This year, Matthew Kachuk's on it, which, gross. Bruh. Yeah. So, but other famous covers. I know Patrick Kane was on it one year.
01:11:19
Speaker
McCarr was on it one year. Austin Matthews, I believe, was on it one year. yeah Is Sid Krause on there? Uh, Sidney Crosby has been on it, yes. I believe all the Hughes brothers were on it, actually, in 2025. I just found out they have a sister in the PWHL. I did not know there was four of them. Yes, there's four of them, actually. That's wild. And now in n in the NHL video games, you can play with, like, the PWHL teams.
01:11:45
Speaker
So I'm getting that for my Switch. Um, absolutely. It's a lot of fun. I've played it before. The soundtracks are usually really good. And yeah, it's, I mean, it's basically the same thing as FIFA. You can be, like, a manager or you can be, like, a player I've played it before, but like and NHL hockey players do play it. Like a lot of the like younger guys, especially are like obsessed with it. And they have, we call it Chell, C-H-E-L. Like they'll have like Chell championships and tournaments and stuff between the teams. So it's definitely something that people do.
Intimacy and Consent in Sensitive Scenes
01:12:14
Speaker
And even as NHL players. That's awesome. Well, the game here turns into a game, another game, a sexual game. um My favorite. Which i've I've heard of people doing that before, but that's crazy. I would not, i would be too embarrassed. I don't think I could do it. I just, I don't know. I like the three a little bit. Yeah, i guess there's like a thrill aspect to it, but I don't know. I'm just like a little concerned about like the what's it like, i don't like it feels like I don't know. Like, I know Shane consents to it, but it just feels a little icky to me.
01:12:45
Speaker
Like, it just feels a little like non consensual. Like, Yes, Hayden doesn't know what's going on on on the other end of the phone, but like, like, I don't know. It feels like, I don't know. What are your guys' thoughts on it? I would love to hear your thoughts. i I mean, I've known about this happening both consensually and not, but I mean, to the person that is on the other side of the line, but it's usually like teenagers with that have to like talk to their parents and the other person is like taunting them to see if they break. Yeah. you know? I think it's as long as you're not making the other person on at the other side of the line aware
01:13:24
Speaker
that you're doing that and like or you don't tell them in a few weeks like by the way ah this was going on while i was right it will feel icky if you did that but if the other person never knows and it's not about who the person is just the fact that you're talking on the phone with someone it makes sense if it's about like who the person is specifically it does feel a bit icky but also based on the dynamic that hayden and shane have like Hayden had the sense of like, I'm gonna jerk Jack off in the bed in the hotel as soon as you leave. Yeah! to me in this specific case it doesn't feel icky. I do think that people could make it very uncomfortable and very icky super fast. But in this case I'm not against it. I um i think it's a very fun way to play around with your partner. Okay. As long as you don't make the third person, i mean, unless third person willingly participating in that. Yeah, like, you don't tell the third person. but but Okay, first of all, how does Hayden not know that it's fucking happening? Because it's loud. like I've been thinking about that so much, and I think it's exhaustion. He's, like, slapping him, like, putting fingers in his mouth. Okay, so... so
01:14:37
Speaker
What I did this time is that I went very slowly with this scene and i know I did notice that when he is the most loud, he is muted. Yeah, that's true. And the rest of the time, it does sound like he is running to the door or something. Yeah.
01:14:55
Speaker
And really distracted, but it's not very sexual. So it does make sense if he says like, oh, there's just this Amazon thing, you know, like it it it does sound like he's running to the door.
01:15:06
Speaker
i was like, oh, your speaker is on the bottom of your phone. Like there is no way that Hayden doesn't hear the Gluck 3000 that is going up like the Hawk Tua. Like there is no way that he doesn't hear that.
01:15:21
Speaker
i think I think that is what is confusing about the scene. is that It wouldn't sound that loud. Yes, but we... But because the sound engineering of the scene is giving us very loud head, it does sound... like That is the confusing part. But ah having done that to people, um you know, and know having...
01:15:43
Speaker
love people, people love in the past. I know you can make it so it doesn't sound like the loop, loop, loop, loop. What the what? forgot yeah tonight I think the folly person went a bit too far this time. Like it was, it it sounds exactly like when my cat is drinking water.
01:16:06
Speaker
no And I can hear him from the other side the apartment. I think it sounds like my cat is throwing up in the other room. like i See, see, see, see, see. The cat comparisons are frying me. like it It is definitely a a shout out the Foley work moment here, i would say. And I also think that... Hayden haden' just has a newborn. and He has like two weeks no sleep taking care of every yeah bit of Jackie's needs. like I don't think he can hear it that much, or if he does, he's not he does not have the brain cells. To start with, I don't even think Hayden has the brain cells. because i've read so I've been reading so many things lately where Hayden is such a fucking idiot, and I think it's a little bit canon that Hayden is just a little stupid. because i mean like that's how you know That's how that happens in the long game is because Hayden's a fucking idiot. so i think that
01:16:51
Speaker
He's a little too stupid to realize what it is. He also can't hear it. He's exhausted. And also, I don't know how much he would care because they are kind of like a bit like he's more open about sharing about their sexual lives. Like he would be like, oh, dude, like you don't have to tell me details, but he is a bit more open minded than whatever
Ilya's Career and Relationship Motivations
01:17:08
Speaker
else. You know what I mean? i think if later right it would be this like he would be disgusted about the Ilya Rossonov of it all. but Exactly. about Shane getting head. Well, he's talking to Exactly. If Shane told him later, I feel like Hayden would be like, I feel like if he said, oh, I was getting head during that phone call, he'd be like, my man. And then he said, oh, was Ilya. He'd be like, dude, what the hell? Well, I was on the phone with Ilya. Like, you know, think that's how that would go. Yeah. yeah But listeners, let us to know what you think. woo
01:17:34
Speaker
Anyway, Ilya is a menace. Ilya is a menace. and and and And his eyes and his hands and his gestures, he's a comedic king. And I love it. And I love how he's like, I'll make you a deal.
01:17:47
Speaker
And Shane is like, no, no, no. While he's positioning himself. yeah I love this too. and That's like when Shane was saying that we can't, we can't meet up, but as he's already out the door, like it's the, like you're not fooling anyone. And then we get the, that's not what this is, where Ilya's like, you like to be bad, and Shane's like, that's not what this is, like we're not bad anymore, like it's been years, like maybe we were, you know, risky at first, but we're not bad anymore. And Ilya says, so you love Hayden, which, you know, is a precursor to what we get later.
01:18:18
Speaker
Right, exactly. So, speaking of Ilya being a menace, we get our part two of boys being boys. They are playing soccer outside. That looked really fun. I've been itching to be active outside. They're playing Sorry. Football. Football. Sorry, they're playing football outside. um And Ilya just casually throws out there just...
01:18:36
Speaker
would love to not have a Russian passport. like I am thinking of you know trading to Canada, thinking of getting out of the the US, which like honestly, fair, 2017, I don't blame you. um Especially the us is are always so tense with Russia, but it's very chaotic at that point, and so he wants to maybe be in Canada, and also maybe be closer to his man's not man's new I don't know how much Shane's picking up on that, that Ilya's trying to do this to be closer to Shane. I mean, because we know how much Shane just sometimes just doesn't pick up on that sometimes. But this is to me very obviously Ilya being like, I want to be closer to you. I want us to do this. I'm going to trade to be closer to you, you know?
01:19:13
Speaker
Right, exactly. Yeah, it's very much like, because I'm just thinking about like, he doesn't really probably want to have like even an American passport because like America is so hostile to Russia at this time, too. So like, well, I don't know, this is into the Trump administration. I never really i still don't understand the whole Trump and Russia thing. Like, I don't get it. Do we like them? Do we not like them? Do we like them? Do we not like them? It's it's who knows. But still, there's there's history. There's history, yeah. And so i can I can see him very much being like, I want a Canadian passport, you know? And also, like, Canada is a little more progressive, you know? It's, like, had gay marriage longer, like, and it's where Shane's from. Like, come on, he, of course, wants to be a little bit closer. And it's easier to, like, ask for heat citizenship if he's a hockey player there. I think the right process in the U.S. will be harder. Yeah, I mean, the immigration process in the United States is literally impossible, but... um yeah
01:20:09
Speaker
um When he says that he's like a free agent. So basically what this means in like hockey terms is that when you sign a contract in the and NHL, you usually sign for something called like AAV. which is like how much money you get per year, right? So I've talked about this before on the pod, like Kirill Kaprizov in Minnesota.
01:20:33
Speaker
He's got the highest AAV starting this coming year in the league, and it's going to be $18 million for eight years. So... Typically, when NHL players, they sign their first contract. It's a, like, this is how, like, contracts probably would have gone between Shane and Ilya. They would have signed a three-year entry-level contract or an ELC, which would have been, like, probably $800,000 a year, plus any sponsorships or whatever that they got outside beyond that. Then after that, they probably would have gone. And so that would put them at like 21. They probably would have signed like the max amount of time that they could at Montreal and at Boston. So this is typically eight years and they probably would have got at that time, like 10 or $12 million dollars because that's how much like those players, like top players were being paid in that time. So that puts them like to into the beginning of their prime because NHL players are probably at their prime like 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. then it kind of goes downhill after that. So if they signed this contract at 21, they would probably be done at like 29. So that puts Ilya and Shane both being done with their first contracts and becoming free agents, meaning like there's
01:21:56
Speaker
Nothing like holding them to this like space unless Boston gives them a really good deal. They can kind of go wherever they want as long as there is cap space for them every year at a different location. So Shane later on suggests Ottawa because Ottawa needs a star center and has the cap space available. In order for Ilya to be a part of that, it's also then in Canada and closer to Shane than Montreal is. So that's what Ilya means when he's a free agent. It means he no longer has a contract with the Boston Bears. Like, it has officially
Shane's Vulnerability and Ilya's Support
01:22:31
Speaker
ended. Because sometimes people will be traded, and then they're called restricted agents. Like, they can't go certain spaces. And they have to finish out their contract somewhat Did I say Boston? Who did I say? Boston Raiders? Boston Bruins. You said Bears. Boston Bears. oh
01:22:47
Speaker
Oh. That's okay. We're moving to the couch. We're having some parallel play, which we love. Everyone is scrolling in their phones. They have blankets and footsie. I'm on that count. Yeah, I really love this moment. i don't know if I was counting the exact number of times that they've done that. But for them, this is such nonverbal communication, just casual touching, even when mentally on their phones in their own world, like just the casual, like I'm just here little tippy taps of just like just needing to be touching all of the time. I love doing that with my close friends. I love it's so reassuring. It's so nice. And so for them, it's always their freaking feet when they're at that conference later at at the parents house, they always at the Whatever they're doing, they're always just like low-key touching either in public or in private. And I thought that was a really sweet moment. And so we we are hashtag noticing that and tracking. Yes.
01:23:34
Speaker
And I could marry Svitlana. Literally, side i love this because murder i in my head, I always think of like the look that Shane gives him is so like, I want to murder you. Shane's like, yeah, and I could lock you in a closet with a loon.
01:23:51
Speaker
I love the trend. I love the social media trend. love the social media trend where people will just like, I could marry Svetlana and I could toss you to the loom. Yeah, those memes have been so funny. He's so teary-eyed though. Like immediately pig attack comes out. Like immediately he is just like spiraling and like thinking the worst all of this. It's he's so baby boy like that. Oh my god, my little baby. And then we get the I have this problem and Shay like wants to fix it. He goes like not he's not as teary eyed, but he like wants to fix this problem. He's so cold about it. He's like, what's the problem? He's so like harsh about it at first until he realizes and I love them. And says, don't marry Svetlana. Just don't. Like, might as well propose then and there, boy. Like, don't marry Svetlana, then marry who, huh? Marry me? What about that, then? ever consider that? What about marrying me, huh? We'll be gay together forever?
01:24:47
Speaker
With two kids? And a dog? And maybe a cat? Maybe. We're all doing the finger point. The... Please? Please? Please? Gay? Okay. So, this throws Shane into a spiral. And here, I want to shout out to my husband. Who is Shane in this scene, in the bed, middle of the night, sitting up, thinking, solving, formulating a 10-year plan for our future? And I am Ilya, being woken up, not understanding what's going on. Why is he just sitting up in the dark? Listen. No, that's so That's relatable. He's spiraling. But I just feel seen by this scene because this is my marriage. It's basically this.
01:25:35
Speaker
Wait, it's so is your husband an earth sign? When's your husband's birthday? He's a Gemini. He's a Gemini. Okay, damn. Because Haley and I, my best friend Haley and I, we were talking about this. And we were like, this is so earth sign coded because like I'm a Capricorn and she's a Virgo and she's like, I've done this. And I was like, I do this all of the time, just like sitting up and plotting. Like I'll even like get out of the notebook to write things down in the middle of the night.
01:25:58
Speaker
Yeah. So no, what my husband has is called anxiety. Same. But it's so true. Juan, I love you. You're the love of my life. And thank you for planning our lives for 10 years every single night.
01:26:13
Speaker
Just forgive me for not catching up as soon as you wake me up. That's funny. Do you really think that far ahead? Yeah, bro. That's how anxiety works. I have the next like 80 years I'm constantly agonizing over. Like for real, for real, for real. I am like constantly thinking about potential things that could happen to me in 10 years. It's so bad. Like, I, it's me for for all. Like, just, yeah. And Shane's hands are soothing Ilya again. and I really like that they're, again, comforting each other like that and touching. i love Hollander. I just woke up. What is narrative? hey He's like, the English is not there. the English is not working right now.
01:26:49
Speaker
As soon as I wake up, I'm so nonverbal. like I need time to like wake up and get my vocal cords ready. and i just don't like I would much rather use ASL as soon as I wake up. and I have done that to my friends that know before where I will use a good morning or an I love you when I first wake up because I just don't like talking. I'm so like, I'm there. I'm just not talking in the morning. Same. Same. It takes time for me to... I always tell my husband when he wakes me up, let me land. I was somewhere else. I'm landing. That's a good one. That was me this morning when I woke up and I had like a bunch of weird dreams and I was like confused and I was like, what day is it? Where am i What is today? That's me. I'm trying to land. Trying to figure out what fuck day it is But this whole plotting breaks Ilya. This was the last wall.
01:27:37
Speaker
And Ilya starts crying. Shane is soothing him. And Ilya just breaks and starts kissing him and saying I love you in Russian until the I love you in English comes out. He is broken. He's terrified. He's like, this just came out because I cannot keep it.
01:27:55
Speaker
to myself anymore and the holy shit just take me out back and shoot me honestly between the so much it scares me and the does it fucking kill you too and shane saying it also ilia saying the words in russian and shane just has this small smile on his face just listening to him hearing him in the russian he's got that stupid smile on his face The I love you and the I mean, no, because he goes, what? I love you. And then Shane goes, holy shit. And then Ilya says, I mean, ready to explain it. And then Shane says it back. Just fucking shoot me, bro. Just fucking. I can't. I can't. Does it fucking kill you too? ilia just
01:28:32
Speaker
He just melts. He just melts into him. And Shane is like, saying oh my God, I love you so much. So fucking much. Is it agony for you? Not anymore.
01:28:45
Speaker
Not anymore. I wish they had kept it. Is it agony? But I do love the does it kill you too. oh so kills me bro. It kills me. It kills me bro. Also Ilya's ass when he's laying on top of Shane kills me. No.
01:29:01
Speaker
but I'm sorry. I had to be that person, unfortunately. Absolutely. Of course you do. That's what this podcast is about. As we've always said, it's about the boy butts. The ass. Yes. yeah The next shot apparently was controversial. I think that they get up at this point. They go don't go back to bed because they're too excited. They've just confessed their love. i just I think they just get up and they're going to have coffee and a cigarette and blanket and cuddles by the water watching the sunrise.
01:29:26
Speaker
It's And again, this is a callback to like the sunset at All-Stars. We've had these these talks before. This is the sunrise on the new chapter. you know we sunset on the old one. This is the sunrise on the new one. And they're starting they're about to start this new journey together. They're about to you know figure out what Ilya's transfer could mean for them and figure out what their future looks like. And I think it's really sweet and it's very soft. And I really i really love this moment. This is really sweet to me. Like, they honestly, they could have ended it here. For me, like the episode low key ends here. Also, I mean, yeah, like I understand like the need for the rest of the episode, but like you could have ended it here. I know, I know. Also, the coffee and... No, no, no. The next scene.
01:30:06
Speaker
no no, no. Wait, before we go, the coffee and the cigarette is so, it's so me-coded, honestly. Like, I love a coffee and cigarette after a great, you know what.
01:30:17
Speaker
Cigarettes after sex, the band, they they knew what was going on. They knew what was up when they named their band there. I was just saying the the next scene because the episode cannot end here because we have the most beautiful sex scene and after this. I also headcanon this is the first time that they don't use condom. Oh yeah, I was about to mention that. Like, that's a common headcanon and I fully agree. And...
01:30:41
Speaker
because this is so tender and very raw there is no performance here like all masks are off and connor is acting his ass out like he's yeah flushed he has the face every single man i know makes when they're horny and they're just like no no No brain activity. All blood has gone to penis. Yeah.
Life Experiences and Relationship Growth
01:31:07
Speaker
And that's very good acting. And the whole, how did we let this happen?
01:31:12
Speaker
I just... And suddenly Shane gets scared. He's like, but this is real, right? And then we have the Shane putting his thumb into Ilya's mouth while he's fucking him. Please fuck me. And it's so... like there's they It's like they want to melt into each other. They're so tangled.
01:31:33
Speaker
like It's a human knot. That's what I see. And yeah, I approve the headcanon. Because it makes sense. It makes a lot sense. I really appreciate the how did we let this happen. It's very like... How did I get here? What dominoes fell in my life that led to this? like I follow this train of thought so often of like in my career, especially with my relationships, like how did I get to like Lauren and I, like our relationship, all the stuff we've been through. like I think about that a lot of like how, not a how did we let this happen kind of a way, but like- What kind of pieces in my life fell into place that allows me to have these really fulfilling moments and stuff? And so Shane is is reflecting on this in a very physical, but also I feel like emotional way of the like, oh my God, we just confessed our love for each other. Whereas when maybe Ilya a few times ago or a few years ago got too emotional and we had the Shane and the, I can't, I'm leaving. I can't stay like that whole moment. And this is also for me, this reminded me a lot of the Ilya's Instagram and the long game, which I won't spoil, but to me that that's, it's very that. And if if you know, you know, like if that makes sense to you, but to me that was just the how did I get here and the dominoes and like all of the puzzle pieces for me, it is give it very much giving Ilya's Instagram because we are just made up of like collections and pieces of other people in our lives, you know? And so I took a very big moment of that. I also appreciated the thumb in the mouth. I will say shout out to that. But I also but i liked the deeper aspect. yes no i mean this is yeah this scene for me is everything like i love it it's so it's perfect and then you get the kind of like the moment afterwards where they're like in the afterglow and shane starts talking about the arena foundation and like how he wants to make the summer camp about like helping kids learn hockey but then donating all the money to like
01:33:22
Speaker
Mental health organizations, which we stand an ally. Once again, we love an ally. And we love a supportive partner. Ilya gives my favorite line and every in the whole show, which is, she would have loved you like I love you. hi Yeah, real, real. Which, oh.
01:33:42
Speaker
Trying. Just take my heart I'm going die now, actually. like Like, Jacob Tierney, you ripped me apart. Like, I was put together and now I've been ripped apart again. Please. Yeah, that one is heartbreaking. That one is heartbreaking. And then when Shane asks Ilya to say it in Russian again, to say I love you in Russian, and then like gets him to say it slower.
01:34:05
Speaker
I wish we got Shane trying to say it because that happens in the book In Heated Rivalry of Shane trying to repeat it back to him, of him trying to figure out how to say it in Russian. And I wish we got that. Yeah, I mean, Shane probably, or Hudson probably never met up with the Russian dialect coach. So, I mean, I guess we could have butchered the language.
Cultural Representation and Authenticity
01:34:24
Speaker
But, I don't know. I kind of love just Ilya saying it. But we know that Shane in the long game does eventually learn Russian. It's true. Muy pomodor. Blue, blue, blue.
01:34:35
Speaker
That's all I remember is you blue. Yeah, tab, yeah. yeah um i kind of hate the people who are getting like the that tattooed on them not in Cyrillic like and not in the like actual russian script but they're getting like the you have to get it in Cyrillic that's the whole point yeah like i know like the latinized spelling of it like i love the latinized spelling of it for fan fiction do it totally fine whatever latinized i don't know what we're calling that But like if you're gonna get that tattooed on your body, get it in Cyrillic.
01:35:07
Speaker
And also, like, why are you getting a language tattooed on your body that you don't speak? I mean, a lot of people do that with a lot of languages, and I agree. i agree. I'm just, I'm just confused. I'm just a little, like, technically, quote-unquote, I have the Japanese kanji for south behind my ear, but that's because of Teen Wolf. Yeah. I do remember this. and not because i actually speak Japanese or I want anything to do with Japanese, it's because of Teen Wolf. So, because I love that show and I thought that was a really cool tattoo to get. So, true anyways. So, then we're in the water playing mermaids. I would like you to know that this section of our notes is called mermaids. And it's so true. It's so real. I'm playing in the water. i I think about that so much when I'm in the lab, um just like washing bottles or something. i was like I'm like, I'm playing in the water. And we get to give me kiss. Gimme kiss! Gimme kiss!
01:36:08
Speaker
Gimme kiss! I pointed out that, um, in our notes, that, uh, we never see Shane swing at a hotel. No, bro, the water's really cold as fuck. Yeah, but, but we do see Ilya there, right? Well, he's from Russia. Russia.
01:36:23
Speaker
Hello. From Russia. Because in the book, in the book, he does swim. I'm wondering if it's because of Hudson's tattoos or something. I was maybe i was just answering to that because Connor also has tattoos and I have been down the rabbit hole about this of before. Yeah, the tattoos you can see in the show.
01:36:43
Speaker
um No, no, no. The makeup they use to cover the ca tattoos is waterproof. So it's not about that. But I was wondering if it was something to highlight again the the autism part. I, as a neurodivergent person, took a long time to get used to the sea. Not because of the water at the sea, but because of the after. Like getting sand all over my body and then feeling sticky.
01:37:09
Speaker
It was hard. to the point where I perfected the technique of how to wash my feet so I could put my feet into shoes without getting sand into it. So I was wondering if maybe it has something to do with that. To see Ilya more comfortable swimming in this water and lakes tend to be like yes very cold but also sometimes slimy so it might have something to do with that.
01:37:34
Speaker
A lot of neurodivergent people don't like to go. lot of us love to swim, but a lot of people struggle with the after because the sensory overload of it is hard and it can take a lot of effort to deal with it. So a lot of people avoid it. So I was thinking maybe it has something to do with that. Yeah, they are wearing like water shoes, probably because like the bottom is gross. I just looked up because they're on Lake Muskoka in Canada. And the water temperature is at the warmest in August, but it's low to mid 70s. So like even Lake Michigan's warmer than that in August. Like Michigan gets in the upper 70s at least, but it's probably pretty cold. I don't like swimming and stuff that I can't see the bottom. So, like, that's kind of thing. Like, I want to be able to at least see the bottom or not go very deep. So, maybe that's, like, Shane's thing, too. I also don't know really what the lakes are like in Canada. Because, like, the lake that I have experience with is, like, Lake Michigan. like, I don't know if there's, like, like... plants or like moss or like any stuff on the bottom like where I go in Lake Michigan it's like sand you know and like sometimes seaweed but like not judging by the by the shoes is probably very slimy yeah yeah and I don't love or rocky yeah or rocky one of the two Yeah, when I was in the springs in Florida, I didn't love some of the bottom parts because it would get a little gross. But sometimes we just we ball. But also sometimes people people wear water shoes for like wildlife protection and for safety that way, which can be really important. So it might be related to that as well. But likely the rock stuff. Water shoes. Yeah, that's I just, I grew up in the tropics and I just respect bodies of water and whoever lives in it because we have, we have creatures. It is, according to Google, Lake Muskoka is very rocky. It's got a lot of granite and neat, G-N-E-I-S-S, shorelines of the Canadian Shield. It's deep, clear water. And Muskoka means to, is believed to derive from indigenous terms, meaning the place where the large rocks are red. And there's, they said there's a lot of submerged rocks requiring caution. Yeah, you don't want to like slip in. So that's why there's issues. Yeah, or like your foot, especially when their feet are so important to their job. True.
01:39:58
Speaker
Real. i love I love us going down this rabbit hole. What's in the water there? Well, and in speaking of, we get Ilya's I want to know how you like it. and that's literally me all of the time asking my friends what they
Shane's Panic Attack and Supportive Bond
01:40:12
Speaker
think about everything. Like when we're at restaurants or when we're watching a show together or when we're doing like anything. I'm like, what what are you? Like, I have my own thoughts, but also like, what are you thinking? Because like, if you're not happy, then like, I'm not happy. I need to know what's in your head all of the time. Right, exactly.
01:40:27
Speaker
same same. He's like, what if I had my phone in my pocket after he gets splashed? And Ilya's like, oh no, it's over there. It's been ringing all morning. And I'm like, foreshadowing. Oh my God. Bro, the way that I would be like, oh, I probably should go see what's on my phone then.
01:40:41
Speaker
Like the way that i would be like, okay, you wait here. I'm going to go see what's on my phone and what's wrong. Yeah. Like get you, you don't want to like stop the moment, but like, come on baby, critical thinking skills. It's been ringing all morning.
01:40:53
Speaker
And like if your parents know you're on a silent retreat, and know not to disturb you. If they're disturbing you, like that has to be important. like He doesn't know that it's his parents. But like for me, i'm like if my mom is contacting me, and I get it, my mom is different than other parents because she's older, but I'm like, I am always going to answer my mom because I'm like, I never know what the fuck is happening. like so There was the time that I got the call that someone in my family died, you know like and I have that anxiety. I don't know how Shane's not like, oh my god. Because he i mean he answered that freaking call of Hayden when they're playing games. like You can go see who the fuck's calling me you when you're in the water. like Come on, bro. It stresses me yeah ah
01:41:29
Speaker
Bro, it stresses me out too. Especially since I feel like it's a little OOC of Shane, of what we know about him. Which, I mean, some of this is a little OOC, but like, It asks you to suspend a little bit of disbelief when you are in telling. When you're in love, you are stupid. We keep saying this. We've been saying this since episode one. Because it's true. Because it's true.
01:41:55
Speaker
Then we get the pasta mention again. I said it earlier. Again, Canadian moment. Or hot dogs. Yeah. I know it's a Canadian show. But then how did they not see David as they're walking up? Like, it's David jump scared. But how? Like, how come it's like they're? I don't know. The sun. You think so? The sun?
01:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. The sun is in their in their faces. So that means that the house, from where they are, there's a lot of light coming into their eyes and the house looks darker than the outside. So that's... I was also thinking that David, like, I mean, they like kind of are like fucking around a little bit on the patio. So like, and it really seems like David just walks in. So like, we know how small like the crossway from the door to that area is because we've seen Shane and Ilya do it. So I really don't think that like it was.
01:42:43
Speaker
And also the doors are probably closed so they can't even hear like the door open. So it was probably literally he just like walked in and wasn't looking and then looked up and was like, oh. Yeah. Or maybe like they were looking at the reflection at first and not looking in the house because I do that sometimes where I'm like looking at my reflection in a glass and there's someone on the other side. And then I'm like, yeah, you're like foregrounding it versus backgrounding it.
01:43:07
Speaker
that's it yeah That's a great way to put it. i yeah yeah So then we get actual panic attack Shane coming out and I want to quote this tweet. It's from Ilya Cigarette who's referencing a video that Jacob Tierney gave and I'll link the tweet and the full ah YouTube video if I can find it. But it's basically saying that as Shane is having this breakdown, Hudson improvised this reaction to them getting caught by his dad at the cottage and Jacob says that what Hudson brought to the table was more interesting, surprising, and full of life than his idea because Hudson brought more to this reaction than what Jacob originally had planned or what was in his head. And so he's so Jacob is really talking about what it was Hudson brought to this that was really Shane. I mean, of course, it's not a great are it's not a great situation, but ah the the acting is great. And so what this tweet is saying about it's everything with Shane is so internalized until it's not. Like when Shane panics, he really panics. Like Ilya jokes about him being panic attack, but this is a real, real moment. And it's very true to the fact that Shane is autistic because you can really see him trying to ground himself and cling on to something for support. and He's grabbing either Ilia or the window or the furniture and it's really indicative of like a of an overwhelm of like a sensory overload moment.
01:44:27
Speaker
There's multiple times both here and in other moments where shane crouches into the fetal position and i've seen this written in fix as well and it it's for me it's very real of the like wanting to like hug yourself like beast like not be small but like contain yourself like have some control and ground yourself and i i really thought that this was he has such a visceral reaction to this and i'm like yes this is exactly how it feels when something is like go like the plans go wrong like everything goes to shit i've been in
01:44:58
Speaker
Oh, such a nasty situation with like the the the girls I was dating in high school. It was a really bad time, but i just felt so... i was like, yeah, this is such an accurate representation of what it would be. It's not just like an, oh, fuck, let me run outside and go it. It's just like ah the fight. I know there's more than just fight or flight or whatever. There's like the freeze and the whatever else. And he's just so stuck in this moment. And so I will link this, break breaking this down a little bit, but i I really... felt seen by this panic and I think that it is so real and it's so like like yeah this is what it would feel like and I'm surprised that in the long game we don't see it as much. but I know that Shane has a bit more control over himself and his emotions a little bit but I really thought that we would get
01:45:38
Speaker
more of this in the long game as more and more people, like closer closer to them find out. But I guess Shane just lost like lost control of the situation in this moment. And he had told Ilya before that he doesn't really know what they would think and they would maybe be supportive, but he wanted to ease them into it and kind of take it baby steps. And this was just like a full, full send, hard launch, like absolutely like rocket launch of a situation. It's a beautiful scene. And I thank you for bringing that interview up. It's a beautiful thing, it's so super well-acted, it's so real, I agree with you, and I also do the crouching down and hanging up to stuff. ah
01:46:16
Speaker
And at the same time, I'm constantly thinking during this scene about the fact that they just came up from the lake. They're probably called Wet and Smelly. So I cannot focus on the emo- like I can't.
01:46:31
Speaker
It's just super powerful scene. But at the same time there's a part of my brain that is focusing on the sensory part of it. The sensory like fuckery of being. Yeah. Can you please take a shower before you go to your parents and come out? Because I need you to be clean. No, and like, no, I also so have like always done this thing when I get like really overwhelmed. I like find like the smallest place I can like crouch myself into, which is oftentimes like on the floor of a closet and like just like get through it. yeah um And my mom caught me doing it like recently, probably like within the past couple of years. And she was like, have you always done this and i was like yes
01:47:15
Speaker
it's always been like a self-soothing thing that I've always done so like what are you talking about I've always done this and speaking of soothing i love what Ilya is doing here he's waiting for permission to touch Shane and then he's like he's the tone of his voice the way he The way he grounds Shane and helps him navigate this panic attack? Marvelous. Absolutely beautiful.
01:47:43
Speaker
I love it. Yeah, it's so good. It is scary, but you're brave. Oh, no, not me seeing a drawing. I cannot remember who the artist was, but if I can find it, it was like somebody drew a comic or like fan art of Irina telling Ilya the same thing when he was a child.
01:48:02
Speaker
Yeah, I saw Oh, just rip me apart, literally. yeah i was going to throw in about being brave, about like, do it scared of like, you can do hard things. That was really going through my mind, which like, sometimes that's not a helpful thought. I have tried to tell that to people and and it's like, still really difficult to get through. And it's not It's not a helpful piece of advice, but sometimes like when you know situations are getting hard, kind of like getting ready for I feel like getting ready for this kind of situation that like you can do hard things is gives you that kind of confidence that you need to get through and I think that's what Ilya is giving here. that And that's really sweet. Yeah.
01:48:36
Speaker
yeah and I love and maybe it's time to wake up it's a beautiful phrase like yeah it's it's also about taking taking back control like yeah this is my nightmare maybe it's time to wake up maybe it's time back for us to get you out of this nightmare and reframe the narrative I love it right yeah because I mean like unfortunately like this is Shane being outed in some way shape or form and it's like that takes a lot of like autonomy away from him in this like really pivotal and like big a moment you know and like unfortunately it's something we talked about in the last episode but like shane never really gets to come out on his own terms you know like he's outed here to david and yuna he's outed i mean he kind of like tells you know what's going on because david doesn't share which is shout out to david But like when he and Ilya come out and the, or like when they're outed like pretty brutally in the long game. So like Shane doesn't get autonomy over that. We get into the car. We get the, I love, I love, love, love, love love this being funny at moments of desperation. Yeah. If you could hear my family and I,
01:49:46
Speaker
The things we said while my grandmother was dying. ah Colombia is a culture. Colombia is a country that survives survives through humor.
01:49:58
Speaker
And I always appreciate when I see that represented in narratives. How... I love Ilya saying like, well, maybe he didn't notice. Bro?
01:50:12
Speaker
They don't know me for Boston. And then when Shani's like, when Shani's like, maybe you should wait in the car. and then he was like His face? Real. That's so real. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll stay the car. like again with their
Family Confrontation and Acceptance
01:50:28
Speaker
non-verbal communication yeah and at the same time he's tender he's comforting but he is adding some ah like a bit of comedy and he always does that when when shane is is losing it and i i like it i identify with it that's me that's how i deal with difficult situations so if you're ever going through it and you hear me crack a joke know that that is my way to take care of you that is my love language during distress Yeah, and I i know this scene cracks us all up, like that scene at the living room.
01:51:01
Speaker
But I love the, it's me, Shane. And he's like, speaking up to himself as well, like, it's me. Like, it's your son, like, you know me. And I, it's because...
01:51:15
Speaker
because he's so scared. He's so scared. But also like they just watched him pull up, they just watched him walk in the door, like walk up the the driveway, like they know it's you, bro. It's not going to be anyone else. And then they're standing there in the mom I threw up position. Yeah, that's why I think he's saying it like not only like the person entering your home is your son, but also even after what you saw, it's still me. It's still me. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And we get the, this is Ilya Rosanthal. But you knew that. you already knew that. my Lovers love him lover he's ill No, Ilya, no We're gross Shane is so locked in in this moment And he's like calmed down a bit externally I mean internally he's still ah a maelstrom I'm sure um But he's very like point blank Let's get to business about this Like he's like down the arrow Like very this is what it is Like we are together Like I feel like he's very about You can't see what I'm doing But I'm doing a gesture you like very like forward with this If you know what I mean Let's get down to business. To feed the hun. To tell her parents we're gay.
01:52:32
Speaker
Yeah. They say friendly with Rozenov and then Ilya corrects to Ilya and David says Ilya sorry. Like, oh, we love David. we love David. So we get this since rookie season. mention!
01:52:48
Speaker
Yes! Hi! It's us! Hello! But also I wanted to say like, Ilya and Yuna, they're monarchs of comedy. Like the way the lovers is brought back to back back to the conversation. so funny. They're like in sync. And I think Yuna is starting to really like Ilya. at this point because she's like this man had spark i like just just what just just and illia's like hiding in his cup and shane's war giving gives him a warning like illia and yuna's like do not tell my mom that we've been fucking like yuna just goes like oh with realization and It breaks the tension and I can't help but laugh out loud every single time. It cracks me up so bad. And also, Ilya pays this huge compliment to David with the good vodka. Like to him, that's such a good compliment. Come on. Yeah. And I love the... And there were no nice men in Montreal.
01:53:40
Speaker
Oh. And Shayne's like, I'm sure they were. But I only had eyes for this one oh I've only been in love with one person. my gosh. I'll throw up. Also, I wanted to talk about, did you ever let him win? Did you ever let dad win at cards? And I think nobody's asking Ilya. And let me preface this by saying I love Juna. I love this one. But nobody's asking Ilya if he let Shayne win.
01:54:08
Speaker
And that is never a concern. of others. Right. So to me, there is something there about who is considered to bow to the other in the way a relationship is perceived. And in a straight relationship, it usually is the woman. And in here, like, Yuna is assuming that Shane could probably, but they think of Ilya as this very aggressive player. So they're they're they're not even considering that. yeah And I am glad that Shane like shuts that up. oh yeah yeah I also love the did you let dad win it cards moment because Yuna responds, oh, I'd rather die like instantly. I think Shane gets so much of himself from Yuna. It's really awesome because that's...
01:54:56
Speaker
That's how he knows how to like meet her at that level and like explain to her how important like winning at hockey in his room It's like, obviously, it's like this how else can I explain like meet you ah to a feeling that you understand this concern that she had? and I thought that that was really funny. and He just gets so much of his competitive edge from her and like that's when the momager is out. The momager comes back later, but that is where he's trying to meet the momager. I also love that Ilya takes all of his cues from Shane during this convo, like checking in with him, like looking at him. They read each each other so well. And again, back to that nonverbal communication of like talking with their faces, we get more foot touches. Like, and i just think that Ilya is just looking at him, looking because he knows how big this is. He just knows. And so they're like, send the communication of how much do we share? What do we tell them? Like, how do we explain this? I think that that's huge for them. Yeah, for sure. And then we get the bisexual moment.
01:55:49
Speaker
It takes so much- You're a ladies man? Ilya likes both, but they only have eyes for each other. And I think it takes so much guts to tell, one, your parents, but two, someone else's parents that you're in love. like That makes my stomach turn just thinking about it. like like you know I could tell my friends, I could tell whatever. But I feel like telling parents is so serious at another level. And so for them, for both of them to say this is so brave and so scary and terrifying. Like it it stresses me out to think about putting myself in that kind of position. And so I wanted to shout that out there as well.
01:56:28
Speaker
Yeah, I love this whole scene between the two of them, like the bisexuality, like part of Ilya is so important. Like, yes, we jokingly call this the gay hockey show, but we can't erase Ilya's identity as a bisexual man. And having that representation is really important. You know, bisexuals are not greedy people or whatever you want to say about us.
01:56:50
Speaker
I love how every episode I add a new layer to my queer identity and this week I'm going as bisexual. Hell yeah. You know. Sexuality is fluid. Yeah, exactly. and We get our footsies. They just like read each other so well. Like this whole conversation, like. even though it is like painful for Shane to get through. Like Ilya is just being there, like being support, trying to like, I don't think he like intentionally tries to be funny, but I think he is definitely like, I don't really know what to say. So this is what I'm going to say. And if it gets a laugh out of Shane, then I'm, I'm happy about it. You know, like it's totally fine. So, so let's talk Shane and Yuna outside. i I just love that Dig of Tyranny decided to put in this whole scene with Yuna. Like, to me, that's so important because, like, I think, like, just Yuna's response in general. Because, like, when we're leading up to this scene with her and Shane, like... you can really tell that she's like kind of in shock because like i think she's like finally realizing that like she might have been looking at her child but she wasn't really seeing him yeah and that like she like i don't think she's momager moment in this moment at all like i think she is very much like oh my god like i've let my kid go through something that is like completely Like, he's existed in this, like, very homophobic league for this long, and he's had no support. And, like, he didn't feel comfortable coming to tell me about it. Like, she looks totally shocked in this scene. Yeah, I'm gonna quote a tweet here that's referencing a YouTube video. and This is from Twitter user Rosanovs with zeros for O's. I'll link it in the show notes. But it says that she was thinking about loving him, obviously, getting him to hockey practice,
01:58:41
Speaker
getting him through all these levels of junior hockey, making sure he does his homework, checking all the mom boxes, but maybe missing who her son actually is. Like she loves him through and through absolutely, but I think it's it's kind of how it is with my mom a little bit of the like, my mom loves me, but she doesn't get me. She doesn't understand me. And I think it was a little bit of that with Shane of the like, Yuna loves him so much, but doesn't totally understand him in a way, if that makes sense. Right. And I mean, that's really hard for both children and parents to deal with, you know, like, it really sucks that like, she like realizes it in this moment where like, Shane is already so anxious, you know, like, and already having so many emotions and like, in a way isn't able to act like, like, I feel like if Shane had finally like decided to come forward and be like,
01:59:34
Speaker
you know, I am gay, like, I think he would have been acting a little bit differently. And so now, Yuna's not only having to deal with like, oh my gosh, my son is gay, and I haven't realized it yet. But also like, oh my gosh, my son is having like a clear like anxiety inducing like situation. And I want to make sure that he's okay. So it's like double edged. And I wasn't there for him. I didn't notice and I couldn't be there for him. I think that's very hard. They are so similar. i think that this is such perfect casting. Like, yeah they sigh at the same time, the way they approach this. And i cry every single fucking time I watch this. like If I'm allowed to be vulnerable for a minute, I'm not like formally out to my family. like They might like get an inkling over the years and whatever, or I don't even know if they've discovered, but I do this project. But i just it really destroys me all of the time because like my mom might be okay, which recently, it's really funny, she'll get a little wine drunk and she'll be like, Mandy, are you gay? Like, do you have anything you want to tell me? It's okay. Like you are you? are you? And it's so funny. And I'll be like, I will talk about this with you when you are sober. And then she never talks about it when she's sober. But and I would be okay with my mom knowing but I think it's the rest of my family knowing is the issue. And at this point, I'm so kind of over it that I'm like, I'm so tired of it that if they find out they fucking find out. i don't care anymore But all that was to say that it's I cry every time for real.
02:01:00
Speaker
Because ah it's just so heartbreaking. It's so... But also it's so comforting. And to be like, I'm sorry that i That you couldn't tell me. you felt like you couldn't tell me. It's... i don't know. It just really gets me. Every time. yeah There's something I want to say about this. is um'm I'm now at that point in life where people around me want to have kids. People in my my generation. And I always ask people like, okay, are you ready? yeah for a full human with these complexities to come like to bring someone to life because and and I remember having this conversation with um with both my brother and my partner's friends in like the same week I was telling them like okay do you know what to do if your child like comes out as gay yeah no but I was like you know it's like a lottery right like humans are so complex and diverse that you can get anything in the combination of genetics and I was like are you are you ready to accommodate to all types of mobility are you ready to accommodate to all kinds of brains Are you ready for them to not be straight, to not be cis? Because if the answer of any of this is no, you have work to do. And it should be your responsibility to maybe not know it all before it comes, before the baby is born, but at least have thought about it and have considered that anything is possible with a human. And they're gonna be their own person. And so when when Yuna says, sorry, I made you feel that like you couldn't tell me, I also think them i also think like it's not only about him being ashamed and you know all the reasons why one can stay in the closet, it's also the fact that the having to say it
02:02:53
Speaker
Having to come out means that you assumed that there was a normal and I deviated. So there was no, and and I really love Yuna, this is not like criticizing Yuna, it's just saying like, what is very frustrating about having to come out is the fact that I wouldn't have to do that if i was straight. you know? Because what I'm doing when I come out, and that is the part that ah sucks for all of us, is to confront the fact that I wasn't raised with this expectation and you didn't have that expectation.
02:03:28
Speaker
So it's not it's is it's not only like, because you can tell that David and Yuna have always been very supportive and Shane knows that they're they're not homophobic and that they have nothing a but against having a a gay child. Mm-hmm. But it's the fact that he still has to announce it because there was no, there there was never an open door right to both possibilities. You know, there was never like, are you dating someone, a boy, a girl, you know? right So I think that's part of what is really, really frustrating about being queer is that most of our parents, even when they were super open, even if they were not like, even in the cases like my family, my family is not homophobic. But the fact that i have to announce something that my siblings didn't have to announce, that I have to go through that because it's not in the realm of possibilities that you presented me with, that is what is frustrating to me. And that is a barrier that exists even in the most open of families. And I hope that the next generations start destroying that a bit and and and and building new ways of presenting the future to their children so It's not about coming out. It's just about talking to your parents about a crush or about not having crushes because you you might be in the ace spectrum or being confused because you like two people and suddenly it's like a girl and a boy. i don't know. It's like... If you could just, if the thing that you had to disclose is mostly that you have feelings for someone and not the fact that your identity goes in a very different way from what everyone is telling you that is going to happen, there is one thing
02:05:18
Speaker
less to worry about. Yeah, absolutely. i also love in this moment, we get the look at me, which is a very autism moment because like I said, eye contact is so difficult, especially in these hard situations. And we know how Shane loves to avoid that. And so her knowing that that that's him struggling with it and says, look at me. If I said that this scene is the best change from the book, because I don't believe that we get this in the book or at least anything
Queer Joy and Community
02:05:43
Speaker
close to it. And so that I think that this is probably the best change from the book is the end of this because it is so, it is so. And then we get the enough. What is the plan? Like business woman, Yuna, that's my manager. Love over my life.
02:05:59
Speaker
And next scene, she is planning, plotting, strategizing while Ilya is doing his shimmy pasta dance. na Oh my God, yes. I love this like moment for Ilya. Like, I love this like whole arc. Like, know, like Kris Jenner and the devil work hard, but you know, Hollander works harder like that. She is on top of it. Like, and I love to see that support from her. Like, and it's like the way that she knows how to support Shane. Right. And so it's like very classic, like, okay, I can reach out to the endorsements. I 100% think she does this still, even though Shane's like, whoa.
02:06:36
Speaker
Yeah. Like, let's wait on it. You know, let's go back like a whole year. right Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. then Then she's back to the emotional part. And she's like, that's so sad.
02:06:49
Speaker
You're going to stay hidden until you retire? right exactly. No, there is a thread that I found by Esther Perel, who's a psychotherapist, but she talks about like how heated rivalry is a corrective experience.
02:07:06
Speaker
And how, like, there are so many points in this show where things could go really bad. Like, we get, you know, Shane outed. Rose and him break up. All of these things. But, like, Shane ultimately, like, still has all of these corrective experiences that, like, viewers might not have. Like, he has a supportive dad. He doesn't get... like fired from his job his mom apologizes his situationship becomes more he said like ilia says i love you back you know like there are endless examples in this show of like intentional choices where it could have been like negative or bad. And Renata Voci also is kind of quoting what Perel is saying, but like, we're conditioned to not only expect the worst, but we're also like looking for the worst in everything to protect ourselves. it how It like closes us off, it like mirrors our bad experiences. But like offering us a corrective experience helps us heal because it shows us a different way. And those experiences in life, especially in culture primed by popular media, are, like, able to then, like, help us, like, really heal on, like, our multiple, like, different levels. It's in the same way that kind of, like, meeting a soulmate brings out the best in you because they mirror, because of the mirror that they hold up, this show is an absolute, like, corrective funhouse experience of mirrors and so like you can't control accidents a canceled flight your power going out in the middle of a recording but you absolutely can like ah talk about how it like you can absolutely like change how you respond to that how like you act in the next time that happens or Whatever or how you prepare for this next moment. And so it's just a very like it's it's super important because corrective experiences bring out the best in us. It shows us what our traumatic past, our expectations are. It gives us an alternative experience and it helps us soothe anxiety and this alternate reality over and over again. And so I think that is one of the reasons why this scene with Yuna, this whole episode is like so powerful is because it helps all of us as viewers like heal from this trauma in a certain way. Yeah, absolutely on that note, you're talking about that. And I'm um um um remembering when Heartstopper first came out, there were a couple of articles about what eventually got baptized as the heart-stopper syndrome and it refers to older queer people that were watching the show like millennials who are already adults and were watching this teenage show and getting like very depressed and having to go through a huge process of dealing with the fact that this show brought them queer joy but at the same time they were grieving
02:10:03
Speaker
not having been part of this sort of story when they were young. And that's also something that is tackled by the show in the in their second season with ah two adults who talk about that and who talk about coming out later in life and how queer people sort of have like a second adolescence because we we didn't get to experience a lot of things when we were teenagers. So our brains are like, Okay, time to time to experience all of that. So I do think that those, like this idea of the corrective experience is so important, especially after consuming so so many years of kill your gaze. yeah So many years of queerbaiting. To finally have things not go completely wrong is healing. But it's very important that we remember that healing can be painful as for at first.
02:10:57
Speaker
So if you're feeling pain from seeing this and not being able to relate to Shane and having a very different experience with your family, know that ah that that that that is natural to feel that way, that it makes sense because it's a sad thing to not be able to find that comfort and support in your family but also know that a lot of us outside are there for you and that family can take many way many shapes and and and forms and that you will find your community just keep looking um but this this won't be just a positive experience for everyone Even though it's very important, it's very important that your brain learns that queer experience is not only tragedy and that that you can find joy even in the difficulties that it entails. There is a lot of joy in this community and in this experience and you deserve that joy. Yeah, and I think Ilya's story really models that like really well throughout this show. like He has a family that unfortunately rejects him, but by the end of this series, he has this newfound family. That's what we always refer to it as. in queer culture. I know so many queer people who have left the toxicity of their biological family behind and really found like beautiful community outside of that. And like all I wish for our listeners, for people who watch heated rivalry, who like are queer and not out or whatever, like I just wish that you have some someone to be a support for you, whether they're physically next to you or in the same town as you or in the same city or they are your Internet friends. I want you. I wish a found family for you. I wish a support system for you. I wish that you, I hope that you find what Ilya does in this story. And like, not necessarily even in a romantic sense, but like all of the support that he gains even through the end of it. Yeah. And shout out to internet friends. Shout out to internet friends. But okay, i I do want to caveat that conversation with AI is not your friend though. Please do not talk to AI chat. Humans!
02:13:28
Speaker
Human internet friends. Like us. That's This podcast is is brought to you by human internet interaction.
02:13:40
Speaker
Yes. I am not saying do not do AI friends. That is so fucking weird. Get those clankers off my internet. It's really because we not for you in the long run. It's bad for your mental health. Please don't do it. It's bad for your mental health. If you want some friends, interact with us on our socials.
02:13:59
Speaker
But rap absolutely yeah, yeah, I wanted to vouch the community again, because I like moving when I moved to Orlando for school and like finding a queer community there granted after a bit of the pandemic passed, but it was so integral for my happiness and well being and understanding of myself and my confidence to find other queer people. And that is so quintessential. Like I being in my early now to mid twenty s like understanding myself and my needs and my social needs. like Queer community is so important. And I just moved. Again, I moved out of Orlando and out of that queer space. And now I'm in a place where it was previously, i was thinking about this a lot today. Previously, this place that I'm in was known as like a queer haven or a gay haven, but mostly for gay men. There are no sapphic spaces here. where I'm at. And I'm now feeling that because I'm surrounded by straight people or people who are like very like cishet and I am finding myself missing my queer people. Like when I went to visit Lauren, it was so refreshing to be surrounded again by queer people and who have this understanding and and this shared experience as me. And being the online spaces are nice. And yet also on my day to day when it's just cis people, cishet people, it can get a little... Tiring, especially when like I am she heard every day at work and I'm like, well I haven't told them because I don't see it as necessarily like relevant or important, especially if I'm not there long term. But it is to me a little bit of like, oh, right. I'm not fully myself here. And so having those spaces, you can fully be yourself either online or in person is so critical, crucial and important.
02:15:37
Speaker
and surrounding yourself with those kind of people can go such a long distance for your mental health. And so even if you need to like have some other hobby where you find a queer space, um like I found a lot of queer people with like content creators that I was following online or like different fandom spaces. And sure, there are their own problems in some of those, like toxic spaces, but also like you could go to like a ceramics class or your local art gallery or trivia or bingo, like something. like Go find your people, I swear to God. And I needed to get on that soapbox for a minute because it's something that has been on my mind. Thank you, Seaweed Brain Book Club. We love you. It's one of the most amazing queer spaces that I have found. I enjoy it so much. Yeah.
Hopeful Future and Podcast Plans
02:16:19
Speaker
Speaking of people, straight people experiencing queer spaces, we get Shane's, I don't know how to transition, so I'm saying that. um Shane freaks out.
02:16:27
Speaker
Ilya helps him regulate. And this is huge for Yuna and David. We get their different shots of their reactions because for ah for Shane and Ilya, this is a normal interaction for them or this is like a very natural, like they all of a sudden David and Yuna aren't there and this is just them. But we get shots of David and Yuna's faces of them like looking at each other. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Like this is a really fresh perspective here. By now, like they're kind of an established relationship as Holonov. And Yuna and David think they're new, but this shows that they're not new. Like they're not new to each other. They might be new to Yuna and David, they are not new to each other. And so Ilya knowing exactly how to comfort Shane and exactly knowing what to say and knowing what he needs. And it's so natural for them. Like that is so mindful. And I think that it is the final proof. I mean, not that they needed proof, but this is another piece of evidence for them of like, oh, this is real. This is not a prank. There are not hidden cameras. Like this is I mean, there's kind of hidden cameras because it's a show. But um they this is just further illustrating how deep this goes for them. And I yeah, I really, I really appreciated that moment of showing them of what it means for each other. And also Ascension again, since rookie season the summer before. Yay! love means Tea? ah We get also, we get the please text, which it's like, oh, we don't need a text. It's like, no, please text. Yuna. Yuna. For the love of Christ.
02:17:59
Speaker
David is like, we will text. That also means Shay needs to check check his phone because David probably was texting for and we saw how that went. And they say, please check your phones. Yeah. they do And we drive into the sunset, which is another callback. Again, that was a brief chapter, but we're getting a new chapter. And I will say, y'all said this earlier, I'm going to push back a little bit. It's not a happy ending. Them driving into the sunset, it might be cliche, but I don't think Holonov get a happy ending here. I saw people online- no it's not- It's, it's, so romance novels have to have a happy ending in some way, shape or form, but they have a happy for now.
02:18:36
Speaker
That's their ending. Happy for now. And so it is in a way still a happy ending. In order for it to be a romance novel, it has to have a happy ending. I totally appreciate all of the fans who are writing like angst and all of these things in fandom. And you know, like there is definitely plenty of space for that in fan fiction and in fandom traditions. Um, but y'all, like, you gotta have a happy ending if you're gonna call it a romance novel. I wish we got the epilogue, but, like, I really do love this as a final shot, but that is a difference from the book is that there's no epilogue. So, T, I think they're gonna do the epilogue as, like, a little holdover episode because they keep kind of teasing it.
02:19:18
Speaker
Really? Like, the dinner with Hayden. Because it can be, like, really small and flat then. It's not, like... like having to tell kyle and eric's story you know that's like a bigger story but if they do the epilogue like i think that would be a very cute holdover yep any further thoughts about the sunset or no no i think no i love bad things it's like my get up and dance in the morning playlist like it's so it's so good this season was immaculate i love also not them all sobbing in the car in the front seats like Retweet. Retweet. Same?
02:19:54
Speaker
Retweet. Me during this episode the entire time. Literally, I tried. I had to take a lap taking notes for this. I had to take a lap. had to pause. i had to go clear my head a little bit. it's It gets me every time. Yeah, we were texting like, so many emotions at once.
02:20:08
Speaker
What I'm supposed to do with it. Yeah, real. Yeah, right. So, I mean, unfortunately, reached the end of the series. Like, are we going to still have a podcast, guys? What's going on? What's next? We have so many plans. Secret evil deviant plans. Evil gay plans. We have plenty of episodes that are coming to you very soon. We have plenty of great things coming up. We don't have fan mail today, but we would love fan mail for any of our upcoming episodes. um We're going to be releasing them like basically the week before just to kind of keep you on your toes. But if you have any fan mail that you would like to talk about, got the Game Changers book.
02:20:55
Speaker
or like anything that you wish had gone into the show. That is our topic for next week. So we're so excited to break down Scott and Kip's story in another way.
02:21:05
Speaker
And we're so excited to embark on our next kind of journey in this podcast. Yeah, this has been so fun. I have been loving and looking forward to my rewatches every week. um I'm looking forward to talking with y'all more. Books is really where my heart lies. Like I love books so much. And so I'm excited to get into a little bit of book coverage. But I will be yelling about books. I will be yelling about books. and I expect no less. People need to read better books. But that's going come to you next week. will be bringing maybe, perhaps, probably, yes, um my, you know, my 10 years of study of literature to the table. Yes. yeah
02:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. At first, we are at first, we literature scholars. Yeah. That is our home. is where we belong. Yeah, but we have some really fun episodes coming out. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I keep collecting little bits of pieces that I want to reference for later on, and we've been teasing some of the episodes throughout some our episodes, and I am so excited to get there and use the little critical thinking skills that I have and rant about different things like decolonizing your identity. It's whole thing. I'm so excited. No, and we're going to really great guests, too, so that's something better. Oh my god, yes! Not just voices in your ears. Not just our voices. We're going have maybe some friends. Maybe some fans.
02:22:33
Speaker
Maybe some academics. oo It's all coming very soon. Yeah. wo So stay tuned to those socials. Stay tuned here. i'm yeah, I can't wait. Can't wait. All right. We will see you next week for in New York. We're we're back in New York. New York. We're back in New York.
02:22:50
Speaker
Take care, loonies. Love you. Bye. Bye. Since Brookly Seasons is created by Lauren, Lau, and Amanda. Cover art is by Lauren and Lau.
02:23:00
Speaker
Amanda is our editor. Thanks listening.