Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
"Hunter:" Timeline F*ckery, Extra Bananas, and Letting That Man Pay for Your Student Loans
319 Plays3 months ago
This week, Amanda, Lau, & Lauren dive into the 'Skip' episode, and no that does not mean we skip it!!!!! Scott and Kip are the titular game changers, and their relationship isn't easy. Join us for a chaotic episode full of rants, raves, and weird things we've done for crushes. Thanks for listening!
Sources & References:
Rachel Reid Stucky Fan Fiction
@Wadjilicious on Threads Curated Fic Spreadsheet
"What's The Deal with U-Haul Lesbians" by Kira Deshler
Brock McGillis Coming Out Story Instagram Reel
Brock McGillis Coming Out Story Article
Media We Reference:
Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins
Young Royals by Lisa Ambjörn, Lars Beckung, and Camilla Holter on Netflix
Suggested Reading
Homophobia, Misogyny, and Capital: The Example of *Our Mutual Friend* by Eve Sedgwick
Sport and Eating Disorders - Understanding and Managing the Risks by Alan Currie
Send us your fanmail to our email or social media inbox:
Twitter: @SRSpod
Threads & IG: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
Send us your fanmail to our email or social media inbox:
Twitter: @SRSpod
Threads & IG: @sincerookieseasonpod
Email: srspod@protonmail.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Divergence
00:00:00
Speaker
rivalry fan companion podcasts where your hosts amanda lau and lauren break down the episodes from the crave canada television series the game changers novels and various media surrounding this fan phenomenon Today, we're looking into episode three,
00:00:16
Speaker
hunter so stay with us as we meet skip and enjoy some smoothies
00:00:31
Speaker
Well, hi everyone. Thanks so much tuning Today we are covering the episode Hunter. it is our fourth episode, so we're really excited.
00:00:42
Speaker
And just as a lovely reminder of our season question, we're trying to find out what makes Heated Rivalry so addictive. Like, what is it in this story and the way it's given to us that allows for this amount of obsession and rewatching, except This episode is a bit of a divergence from the rest of the episodes in the series. We thought we were following Shane Hollander and Ilya Rosanoff, but all of a sudden we're with a different couple here. We're with Scott Hunter and Kip, whatever his last name is. Grady. Kip Grady. My bad.
00:01:19
Speaker
i actually I actually was watching Danny Mota's reaction to this episode, and he calls Kip's dad Mr. Kip. Nice. No, so we're following Kip Grady, and his real name is Christopher, but he calls himself Kip, which, okay.
00:01:35
Speaker
i Yeah, okay, we're following Scott Hunter and Kip Grady, the start of their relationship, how they meet and everything, and we get really interesting timeline overlaps with our main storyline of
Timeline Confusion and Narrative Context
00:01:48
Speaker
Holonov. So yeah, we're the timeline, like how we do timelines and in this episode might be a bit off or different just because we've already covered them from last episode. But all of a sudden this episode starts off back at the winter 2014 Sochi Olympics. No, and and that's different than the book Game Changers because the book Game Changers. like, is set up in the lead up to the Stanley Cup final that the Admirals win. And so I guess I'm kind of confused on this, like, part because then, like, I don't understand. Timeline makes no sense with this episode. but Honestly, I usually watch this episode after I watch episode four when I'm doing my rewatches because that way it makes more sense, like,
00:02:35
Speaker
how I read it in the Game Changers novels, that's what makes sense in my brain. Yeah, there's a lot of differences in from the book, from ah specifically from the Game Changer the book that I will be mentioning here and there. But I also I think that this starts off with the Sochi Olympics and like to give us a timeline perspective and to kind of shift us like I think it's supposed to rewire our brains a little bit about Scott Hunter, if you didn't already know, because especially in when we do get the Sochi Olympics from the Holomouth perspective, There is a like a couple like shots specifically at Scott Hunter, which if you know, you know, like you pick up on or on your rewatch you pick up on. But I think it's to kind of be like, oh, keep this bit in mind, especially where Vaughn's talking about like must be brave. To be like that, think they're doing that to give you a different idea about Scott specifically to can add context for the rest of the episode. And I understand that point. I'm just saying like it could have been like a flashback at the beginning the episode and then we could be like, I think like i think there's like two reasons for this episode like coming where it does in the television show. Because ah like honestly, i don't think the fandom would have been able to live if we got the end of episode four and then we went and switched to like an entire real new couple. like with the like I think we would have all died if we had to have two weeks between episode four and
Character Interactions and Personal Anecdotes
00:03:54
Speaker
episode five. So like I can see why they did it this way but it's still like to me who's read the Game Changers novels it doesn't make sense like chronologically and then I think it kind of gives this like weird like okay like they Scott and Kip like just didn't talk to each other for three years and they're like still yearning like what is the deal there in episode the end of episode five so but yeah this is different than the books so going back to our timeline we've kind of already talked about where we were at in 2013 and 14.
00:04:24
Speaker
But there is, like Amanda was saying, that repetition of the ice cream cafe scene. And with this time we get Vaughn and Scott's POV, like, point point of view. Yeah, and we we then zoomed to Scott and kind of, like, entered his mind. So we finally... i think i think it was... Sort of evident, if not obvious, when we got this scene last episode, that Scott was also thinking about this whole being gay in Russia thing, like Shane, but we didn't have any context about it. So maybe like... I know a lot ah ah lot of people were thinking, oh, maybe it's because he already clocked Shane and Ilya's thing with the hotel room, so he's like, careful what you're saying next to Shane, because I know Shane has like something going on there.
00:05:09
Speaker
ah But we now know that Scott is in his own world. Okay, so Lau and I both went into this knowing who Scott Hunter was. Like, I like, in the first episode, they were like, this is Scott Hunter. I was like, oh, okay. Like, I know who this guy is. Amanda, what were your, like, thoughts, like, coming into, like, did you think Scott was gay? Like, did you clock it?
00:05:30
Speaker
Or were you, like, very surprised? Amanda, besides who is this white man, which we discussed. Which we know you didn't know who this white man was. Well, and also I struggled with Vaughn because he comes back a lot and I was like, well, he has a very American accent. Like he me to me, he's just so like, I don't know his actor at all. But to me, he's like, i'm like Oh, yeah, i definitely. Because they have like the jackets on and stuff. And I'm able to remember some of them. But once this episode opened with that, I was like, why are we back here? i don't I was like, I was like, did I click the wrong episode? Like, what is this? And then we kept going and then we um zoom in on him more and I was like, there was a conversation. I was like, hold on, they talked about the black mold. I was like, I felt so weird. And then they cut back to it, to him running. And I'm like, oh, I was like, this is different. I was like, for me, it like totally blew my mind. i was like, is the rest of the series going to be different POVs of people? Or like how, it I was like, I know this is going to tie back into Shane and Ilya somehow. I just didn't understand how. And that had me on like the edge of my seat. I was like, I was like, what the fuck is happening? Who is this dude? Why are we in New York? Like, I don't understand. But then as soon as he walked into the smoothie shop and, like, they had their first interaction, action I was like, I see where this is going. I understand now. I sort of put the pieces together, but from a meta perspective, I was like, and then now I've i've since read the books. um Which, also to update listeners, I am 50 to 60% of the way done with the long game, so hopefully by next recording I will be done done.
Fanfiction Origins and Community Impact
00:06:55
Speaker
But... I know, I know, it's terrifying. I understand how this series is structured now, but to have that thrown into the a third of the way through the season, I was like, huh, it's the caveman meme, you know, the like very shaky, like, huh, it was very much that. Yeah, and I think when this came out, it was like a 50-50 reaction. Like, people were like,
00:07:15
Speaker
I love this couple, I love we getting like other stories and like getting this world a bit more in depth and other people are like where are my sexy Russian and sexy Canadian guys? No, and I was like here's another sexy Canadian, well not really, but here's another sexy one for you to lust over or whatever. Yeah, and i it was around either it was either the second or third episode that I was started tuning in weekly. It might have been this episode that I started tuning in weekly, and so I was still trying to get tapped into the fandom and tapped into like the weekly hype and stuff, and it was starting to be during the holidays and when I was starting to move as well, so I didn't have... I wasn't watching right when it came out. I would watch like a couple of days after or well into the next week, and so i would see some of what people were talking about, and was like that's when I was like, I gotta to lock the fuck in and figure out what is going on because I...
00:08:09
Speaker
I need to be online and I need to be involved. Also, your your phone was going off by now because we we were we didn't have the server yet, but the Steward Brain server was every single Friday. We were like, ah yeah that really for me was like pushing me because i was like okay i've got to finish packing so i can watch whatever the hell they're talking about and catch up because the fomo goes so hard oh the amount of like when i started to read the books i read the books because of fomo because everyone on the server knew about it and i had no idea what what was happening so yeah fomo fomo has has done amazing things for me know Yeah, it turned out really well. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really, yeah, im really glad I ended up here. No, I wanted to um see, I looked back through my text messages to see when the first time I texted somebody else about the gay hockey show. And I say, I say gay hockey show colloquially. Okay. I know it's a queer hockey show. Don't come for me. But the first time I said it was to my friend Allison. I said, gay hockey TV show on HBO.
00:09:18
Speaker
And then the second time I said to text, and that was on 1128. So that was when the first episodes came out. The second person I texted about it was my friend who does a Blackhawks um like YouTube channel. And I was like, have you seen the gay hockey show? And this is a straight man. Um...
00:09:36
Speaker
so i it was after i think after skip or no was that like the week between skip and holland off i don't remember when everything aired anyways yeah really really good stuff no it came at such a good time i swear like the that was it hit especially because then people were like talking about watching it with their family and they're like oh my god i would go between watching like percy jackson and then my family walked away i would have put it on I put it on either drive-in. It was great. Same. my my My partner will come into the room and he will be like,
Cultural Spaces and Representation
00:10:04
Speaker
what is this? Like, what are you watching? Last time I checked, you were watching these little kids in orange t-shirts and now... Running around at monsters. Why are they naked men in our screen? That's great. No, I fully watch the television show in my living room, but the problem is my TV. Like, I live in a courtyard building in Chicago, and so you can see into, like, the other apartments, and I watched the first episode with all of my curtains open just on my television facing out.
00:10:40
Speaker
So, yeah. I mean, I'm the naked neighbor anyway, so I, like, kind of own that at this point of my life. So... Yeah, I think I was, i was watching it on my iPad in a hotel room when we were visiting because my family wanted my mom wanted to visit where my internship is now in Florida. And she was like, Oh, let's go spend Thanksgiving there. bla blah blah blah And so mom was like, I don't know, out at the bar or something. My brother's taking a nap. And I was like, I'm gonna watch this show. And I put it on my iPad. And I watch it. and I was like, Oh, bad. Yeah. Yeah. So it was definitely end of November. I'm so glad that Kayleigh told me um not to watch with people in the house or to use like airpods or something because it was like the first two episodes, the sound, just the sound. And I really, I really, Kayleigh, Kayleigh, I love you because you always tell us when something is not appropriate to listen in public. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, I love the friends that will shout you out for that because if I don't have a warning, I might play it around people that- No, usually I have headphones on, but i love a warning is appreciated. No, and exactly. So also another timeline moment. So we see the the whole ice cream scene. Then we get another timeline title card. We get Fall 2013, or four months ago. This is also Holonav check-in around the time Ilya goes to Shane's apartment for the first time with the like Mr. Businessman and the pillows and of this stuff. You're gonna murder me.
00:12:07
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. it's It's similar to that time period in Hollow Up, which I think is a great reference point because Hollow Up does take time over the course over so long that having these check-ins is is fun. um We get a Man on the Crease podcast, the same that we hear at the start of both Sochi scenes in episode two and three. And they're critiquing Scott for his poor performance this season. Now, why would Scott be listening to this? This sounds like it would be so like I guess it maybe he wants like the anger and the hype to like help push him in his run that he's doing. But for me, I would like cry if I heard someone talking so much shit about me like like that.
00:12:39
Speaker
I was it was stressing me out. And so that's what we cut to is that That framing device, to to it's kind of showing and telling us, but we see him running down the block. He's in this tight, tight shirt. you can see his abs, his muscles. and He's listening to this listening to them talk about how bad he's doing, basically. Yeah. His running technique stresses me out. No!
00:13:03
Speaker
He's talked about this. Francois Arnaud has talked about this. I don't run, but my mom does and my partner does. And i my my swimming trainer, she was like very like she made me run to train for swimming and she would correct my technique. And every single time I see someone with bad technique i'm thinking of all the issues that that technique is creating and for for francois i'm so worried like i'm so glad he's not an athlete because that is not a good technique for running poor dude i know his feet hurt and his shins hurt after that No, for sure. Claramente. Also, this, like, I had learned about this after I watched the TV show, but the fact that supposedly early, early stages of Game Changers was a Steve Rogers, Bucky Barnes fan fiction. is this wrong?
00:14:02
Speaker
Well, I heard, i don't know, there's been some back and forth. Some people talked about it Discord. I'm not entirely sure which is true. I heard someone say that she had written original work and then uploaded on AO3 and then apparently didn't like didn't think you could put original work on AO3, so she changed the names to be Stucky, but it might also just be Stucky fanfic. I don't know, but sometimes the characters are written where you're like, I see it, but I don't know which the truth is. I've heard both of these things.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, okay. That's what Aaron says is it was originally wrote as an original or it was wrote as an original work but then didn't know you can't post original work on AO3. You can post original work on AO3. You just have to like tag it as an OC like original characters. It's totally fine. and This is from your person who knows the founders of AO3. That's my flex. i think that i i have um I know the founders of AO3. I've had conversations with them. I have their phone numbers maybe. Anyways, I always am like why is AO3 down? But anyways. You were advocating for Mal deal the other day when Mal was freaking out because 803 was down. Yeah, no, I absolutely, and I was at a kid for myself too. I, excuse you, i have the entire, the fanfic spreadsheet, which is, so lovingly given to us by a threads user whose name is ah escaping me, but I follow on threads. Oh, found them. Wadgie, the lady with the fanfic spreadsheet. And so there is a curated spreadsheet of 200 plus fanfics. And I found out about it the day before AO3 went down. Damn. like
Socioeconomic Backgrounds and Chemistry
00:15:30
Speaker
Brutal. What am I supposed to do? Hello? i had to download fics. I haven't had to do that since like 2008. But Especially with the snowstorm. I did not have to do that since Hollander and Rosanoff met Miss Laurie. No. That's wild.
00:15:44
Speaker
And literally like there's so many new fanfics being added every single day. Every single day. Wild. Do you want me to to transition at the Strawberry? Uh-huh. Yeah. Trans my gender at the Strawberry. I got gender reassignment surgery at
00:16:07
Speaker
How can I clip that and send it to you and be like BTS?
00:16:12
Speaker
They're handing out free gender reassignment surgeries at the straw plus Mary. Yeah, it's actually Maria doing most of the work. mother I got my hormones. I got my hormones from straw plus Mary. Uh-huh. Yeah.
00:16:26
Speaker
With extra banana, you know? With extra banana, exactly. Exactly. Scott like rips out his headphones because of course he's like, man, i don't want to hear this slander. And he stops his run and he's outside of these the infamous straw and berry or straw plus berry. They argue about the pronunciation of the book. It does not matter whatever straw and berry. And he walks in and finds an asleep kip behind the counter.
00:16:48
Speaker
How is he doing this? The position of the book is so unnatural. It does not feel comfortable. I have done this in, admit ah to be fair, when I was in high school, I fell asleep in band class all the time. I would like actively be playing and fall asleep. No, clearly y'all have never worked a service job before because I have dead ass falling asleep exactly like this behind a bar. The way I would fall like i would break my nose like every single time I tried to fall asleep and no nothing is supporting my head I just hit myself so I am like when I said the position is so unnatural first I was thinking my clumsy ass would like just have a big big nose accident but also the way he like the book you know like the this the display of the book so we know what he's reading it's just so hilarious to me that art and it's also like generic art history like one of those books yeah that a kid would take out of the school library library yeah about art history for the first time yeah yeah It's like, I don't know if y'all have ever watched MTV's Teen Wolf, but they used to do these like product placements of like the vehicles or the phones in the show. And they were like so obvious, like that they were doing product placement of some kind. And so like, that's exactly what this felt like. But like product placement of he's a grad student going for art history. Like that's like, also, come on, baby. Like, I know I have a humanities degree, but art history, come on.
00:18:23
Speaker
Baby. Baby. You're going to be working with straw plus berry for the rest of your goddamn life. ah Wow. and No, I'm just kidding. Christ christ in literature, BA. No, exactly. but But I have a stable job, which is not this podcast. Okay. But yeah, I was like, maybe you should be reading something else if you want those applications to actually work.
00:18:50
Speaker
ah You need to, like, if if we're going to grads like grad school depth of art history, maybe it's not the time to be reading generic art history with the Greek Yeah, yeah. Also, if you are planning to go to grad school anytime soon, please diversify your interests in any way, shape, or form so you have any hope of getting a job when you get out. Especially if you are going into something that is related. Don't just go for an English PhD. I second this.
00:19:18
Speaker
Unfortunately. It's rough out there. The job market. but The two PhDs on this podcast are like, don't do it Don't do it. i I literally watched Lauren go through their PhD and it's literally trauma. Oh, yeah.
00:19:31
Speaker
Have you seen the meme that is like, we have reading for pleasure. Why don't we have like reading for torture? And someone's like, that's going to grad school. That's going to grad school. What you talking about? Reading for torture? As someone who finished her PhD one year in advance because I didn't want to go back to the US after my year of research in Colombia, yeah, I was desperate to get out of the prison. I put i voluntarily put myself in and prayed for for months. no Exactly. i I did my PhD. I finished it in 2023, and it took me like a year and a half before I started doing research. Oh i done same. Because I was so traumatized from my PhD. So let this be a note to skip or to Kip. Let this be a note to Kip. Don't go to grad school, bro. What are you doing?
00:20:24
Speaker
um I'm glad he's getting he's applying for a scholarship because I always tell my students, just promise me you're not going to pay for it. Oh, this this, yeah, okay, yeah. If you're going to go to grad school, don't pay for it with student loans or by yourself. Because nothing is worse than being in a grad, like, because I had to pay for my first year of my master's. And nothing is worse than being in a class and being like, I'm spending so much money on And I hate it. And like, if somebody else is paying for it, then you got to push through. Like you got keep going. But when you're paying for it you could be like, I'm just done. Like, I'm not going to do this anymore. No, t t I didn't pay for either of mine because my um being a native speaker of Spanish makes people want you as cheap labor as a language instructor. So yeah so I didn't.
00:21:12
Speaker
I wasn't paid enough in my master's though for the city I was living in at all. But yeah, if you're gonna do grad school in the humanities, at least get paid for it. Like, get a stipend, get a scholarship, and use that as a way delay. grades, baby. Yeah, and use it as a way to delay the terrifying moment of going on the job. Or, as Kip does, get a sugar daddy. I have a few different thoughts about how they integrated Skip into the show and one of them is about how in the book one of their biggest points of contention is that Scott offers to pay for Kip's degree like offers to pay the whole thing like literally his Christmas present or like birthday some present he gives him or his student loans Yeah, yeah, it's like he gives him this big check and Kip is like, absolutely not. How could you do this? This is insane. Like, this is so absurd. Like, I'm not a charity. Like all this. It's a whole divide in their relationship. I don't that's spoilers or not, but also like, whatever, but not whatever, but like, they didn't put it in the show. But that's one of their things that I wanted to bring up is like, that is like a point for them. And again, we're going to talk about it later, but their points of noncommunication. This is a great segue to what actually happens in this scene because we're gonna see like a wink wink we remember that this happened in the book but we're not putting it there with the money with tipping.
00:22:38
Speaker
um Just in a few seconds if we ever get into this scene. Yeah I think i think scott and Kip are a little refreshing because like one Kip is an out man like he's out of the closet he's out to his friends he's out to his family So like, you know, he's like giving this whole explanation and this like spiel about the drink and like all this stuff. But he's totally like flirting with Scott and Scott is flirting back. So like the like the extra banana thing is like, bro, that's a euphemism. Come on. Like, let let's be so real. Like they are gay. ah ah The banana makes a big difference? Come on.
00:23:20
Speaker
Come on, baby. Like... My... I don't know if this is my socially awkward ass or what. The first, like, four times I watched this episode, I was like... And I put it in the outline.
00:23:31
Speaker
Does he does this with every single customer? And then I was like, no, of course, he's flirting with this man. But ah this is me who needs like a friend to translate the world to me and say, oh, they're flirting with you because I never know. I never catch it. i'm I'm the last one to realize that something is happening around me. So... Yeah, also i do see ah in our outline was Maria there the whole time. I do think she was there the whole time. i don't know if she's fully on screen the whole time. I do think she was fully listening and watching on her phone the whole time. And then like once thing once maybe he said like the pandemic's a big difference. I think she looked up and it's just observing this whole interaction and I love how they both go girl. Girl! Girl! I'm obsessed! The whole time since when? Because Scott enters the the place and Kip is us asleep but Maria isn't there to like... You know? So that's why I was asking that like when did she just like appear and started eavesdropping on their conversation?
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, maybe she just snuck in at some point when she heard the vibes. I definitely thought she there little while. She felt like something gay was happening and she was like, yes. Her gay senses were tingling.
00:24:43
Speaker
Ilya in the Game Changers, like any time an NHL player has a thought about another another man. Ilya pops up somehow. She sniffs them out like a bloodhound, I swear to god. He's like, hello, I heard you were having gay thoughts. He's the peers. Hello? Yes. No, I definitely, i mean, as a person who's worked in the service industry before and had hot customers come in, like, yeah, I would like totally be open and flirting with them and trying to get their number and everything. I mean, it's like that weird thing of like, can I ask this person out? Because even though they're at, like, they're at work right now, ah but like, listen, you know.
00:25:17
Speaker
yeah no, I can't imagine you flirting with customers the way I can imagine No. yes No. I like, i used to have on, when I had dating
Character Development and Narrative Arcs
00:25:30
Speaker
apps, because I'm not doing dating apps anymore. um When I used to have dating apps, I literally would put on my dating apps that I'm flirtier than everyone. Like I flirt with everyone. Like, yo, la what are you doing after this?
00:25:42
Speaker
Sleeping probably. that That wasn't good. how many miles separate us also ah right now? Girl, I'm not talking about being there in person. I'm talking about a little FaceTime. little phone call. The FaceTimes that happen in this series? Hello? Listen, I you're lonely out there. i can i can help. I can help support.
00:26:11
Speaker
so tempting yeah I'm sorry, Lao's husband. Lao's partner. Juan, you want us nowhere to be found. Juan is dead in a ditch. but Yeah, poor Juan is like under 30 centimeters of snow. Juan, are you okay? Please, please send a signal.
00:26:34
Speaker
Hell of a time to fly back to the U.S., Juan.
00:26:39
Speaker
Oh my god. Yeah, so they're- I mean, these guys are clearly flirting from fucking round one. Round one. And I feel it so refreshing that- um because before we had like fully closeted Ilya and- and Shane was about to say Hunter. ah And the only like out queer character that we had seen like that was visibly in his performance, ah very, very queer was Sasha. And it's good to see someone else be like openly queer in their performance out of the closet. So we can also have but the contrast of how the dynamic changes. when everyone is in the closet, when someone is a bit more out than the other. so I like that we're exploring the differences and not everyone is a closeted hockey player. Yeah, I think this is, I think Kip and Scott are like a little refreshing in a way because also scott at this point has had, from what I remember from the books, he's had other interactions with gay men. And so it's not like he's like Shane, who's this like little,
00:27:45
Speaker
I haven't, like, there haven't been anybody other than Ilya. I mean, he does, like, later on, as we learn as readers, but, like, Scott's kind of been around the block a little bit, so he's maybe a little more, like, okay in scenarios where he knows he's maybe safe. And so it's it's refreshing to see them kind of very openly, like, flirt with one another.
00:28:05
Speaker
Speaking of safe places for queer people to flirt, we get our first look into the Kingfisher. Now, this, at first, I didn't understand was as important, but as book readers, which I hope we can talk about maybe in a very, very future episode about the books, but the Kingfisher is is critical as a queer space. But this is our first look in it. We think it's like a dingy little sports bar. It is not. It is a gay bar, and I love it so much. We get the thank you, Kyle, from all of them, which also kyle and Easter egg. And this is something I don't... Maybe I'll bring it up here.
00:28:35
Speaker
i don't think we are getting any sort of like common goal, like the book, the common common goal adaptation or reference beyond this, because I feel like they've merged a bit of cut because like, I don't know, semi spoiler alert, Kyle has a story with another NHL player in a later book. um Kyle as in yes, this bartender and the Kingfisher. And he doesn't he's not the only thing we get is his name. We don't get any other background like kip's whole thing in the show is art history when in the books he's history and kyle is art history and there's a bit of a difference there and that's what draws him into eric and so i just think that i it kind of they kind of put some of kyle's parts of him and i think when they go later on in this episode when um skip goes to the art museum is a scene from common goal so it's
00:29:23
Speaker
I think that they've kind of taken some of that and put it into skip. And so I don't think that's just my theory is that I don't think that if they are putting in these little parts of the other books, and and if we do get like, maybe in season two, if we get a, what's it What's the one I just finished role model. If we get like a role model episode of spoiler and spoiler that I won't say, then if we get that in the future, I don't think that we would get a common goal episode, if that makes sense.
00:29:50
Speaker
I think Common Goal is something that can be more easily skipped. I think Role Model is kind of intrinsically, like there's a lot of reasons why fans read Role Model and The Long Game kind of back and forth because those two books I think are very interwoven with one another. yeah um Whereas Common Goal is kind of just like a floaty one in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. So, I mean, there's definitely, there's a lot of similarities between Eric and Kyle and Scott and Kip. Not as big of an age difference between Eric and, or Scott and Kip as there is between Eric and Kyle. But, like, I think there are a lot of similarities between those two stories. And so I can see why Jacob Tierney was like, Well, let's just kind of like meld these two stories together. So yeah, that makes sense.
00:30:37
Speaker
But the Kingfisher, i I'm glad that the Kingfisher stayed because that is really important for a lot of different reasons. Yeah. In the books. Yeah. We need our queer bars as well. Represent. Yeah. We need spaces to hang out with our friends and have queer community and. And for Ilya to bring NHL players for their first gay bar. Yeah, exactly. and We need Ilya to take everybody to the gay bar. Yeah. the gay bar gay At the gay bar. gay bar.
00:31:08
Speaker
And so at this gay bar, we get some exposition about who these people are. So we get again Maria, who is... What is the word? Co-worker. Thank you. Co-worker. And we get Kip's name, that's Christopher. We get some discussion about grad school applications, so we're getting more lore and we're getting situated regarding where he is in his professional life. So there's lot exposition. for sure. done fairly well and in a funny way that doesn't feel like okay we need to pause so the viewers can understand who this person and of course we get then the maria maria is like knows your name oh yes yeah yeah and then they're like your name is stupid That's how they enter into the grad school application, they're teasing him like, please tell me you didn't sign your grad school applications as KIP.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah, no, um and that's exactly what queers do. All we do is... What if I said that was giving T-boy energy or like choice people picking a name and you're like, please don't name yourself. No, exactly.
00:32:21
Speaker
Amanda, do you remember we were reading for book club? I don't know if you were there, but for book club, we were reading Sunrise on the Ripping and we had like all the tributes names and all the names. Yeah. And we were like, this is giving non-binary person names themselves. So true. Some of them are great. Some of them fuck. Some of them suck. Exactly. I was literally, I met somebody the other name other day and their name is Fern.
00:32:51
Speaker
their Their name is Fern. And I was like, that's kind of just that's my cat's name. And they were like, a how did you decide that name for your cat? And I was like, I was trying to think of the most non-binary cat name or non-binary name I could give my cat. Fern. Fern. It's giving, i love it's giving divergent, your name is Four, like the number.
00:33:14
Speaker
so exactly. No, and literally her name is Fern, like Winter Storm Fern that is happening right now in the United States. And she is a menace, just like the Winter Storm. Even more of a menace, I would say, than the Winter Storm. The cat or the person that you met? The cat! but My cat. Fern is a menace. Fernie!
00:33:33
Speaker
We love Kip, but Kip is a silly... Skip is a cute ship name. I do like Skip as a ship name, though. But it also gives me the feeling every time ah every time i tell I told you this week that like I'm getting ready for the Skip episode, I felt like we were saying that it's the episode that you skip because it's not Julia and Shane. Yeah.
00:33:54
Speaker
No, yeah no, we don't skip this episode because this episode is important in the narrative arc of Shane and Ilya. Without Skip, we don't get the cottage. We don't get episode six, baby.
00:34:06
Speaker
Exactly. And this is something that I was going to reference later, but I want to bring it up now. I think that this is really important because Scott Hunter is New York's golden boy. is so like beloved, like he's such like a philanthropist. that he does all he does all these like benefit things and he has this whole foundation and blah blah blah whatever he has by the end of this with his relationship with kip he really sets a precedent that's referred to by everyone and i think that's really cool like all of these the future people i mean whether they love them love him or hate him he is referred to it's like oh well this was really important because or i feel this way because scott you know came out and did this and that And it it gave a lot of people in this universe confidence to be themselves and to open minded and like really open up this narrative ah to help, I guess, kind of overtake the antagonist of homophobia. I mean, it did stir up a lot of homophobia, but it did a lot for queerness. And so I think um Scott Hunter being really important in this universe. I think that's why this episode is so so important in this series is because sets a domino effect that triggers so many other things. And i love it.
00:35:12
Speaker
We also, also in this scene, they're in the Kingfisher watching the hockey game, which they don't usually. apparently I don't know what else they would watch. ah It's a sports bar, I don't know what sports gays watch. But they were are watching the hockey game. And it's a different perspective than we've got with Holonov because we get one side of the couple watching the other in like a non-playoff game. It's from like a civilian plebeian non-hockey person reallyian but watching the hockey person, you know? I love the civilian.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, that was interesting. and ah And they're watching, but nobody understands what's happening. You know, like, they're like, he's cute. He knows my name. Please don't, please don't change the channel. And that's it.
00:35:51
Speaker
So we're invested in the man. Yeah. And that's how we and invested in the in the sport. Yeah. And honestly, what a way to get into hockey. Like I fully support you finding like the NHL player that you think is the hottest. I mean, there are definitely some that you shouldn't ah root for, but it's a hell of a way to get into the sport. Personally, like one of my gateway men into the sport. That's wild. Gateway men.
00:36:20
Speaker
Marc-Andre Fleury, but he's really funny. He's not cute. And um Austin Matthews, Poppy. oh good Lord, Austin. Yeah. So I think what a way to get into hockey. They're doing it right. Good. Let's go back to the straw and berries, straw plus berry, the smoothie place. Our boy is obsessed because, as we discussed, he was interested in the man and now he's into the sport through the man. Right.
00:36:44
Speaker
And Maria is like, shut up. And I wanted to ask you, what is the wildest thing y'all have hyper fixated on because of a crush? Amanda, why don't you go first? Ha ha ha ha ha! I have had so many love interests over the years that i don't even know if I could pick the wildest. Well, Lauren, you've known me for so long, mainly through a couple of characters. my gosh. Lauren just did this face like this. Maria and Lauren did the same face. Like, oh my gosh.
00:37:20
Speaker
What? it Wait, is that have I done something crazy because of someone? No, I just want to know if what your, uh, what your, what your hyper fixations are based on men or based on your crushes.
00:37:32
Speaker
Not all of them are based on other people. Oftentimes it's stuff I'm interested in that trickles into other people. Maybe being trying to be interested in some of the games they were interested in, like in video games or whatever. I've definitely done that for people that I've loved or been attracted to where I was like, oh, I want to spend time with you. Let me join like join you in this thing. Or here, you can like screen share for me this game or you know tell me all about this game or whatever. I think that's probably- it's nothing too crazy. I am the kind of person who I have hobbies and interests and then that kind of bleeds into the other person where I like make something for someone or i like am doing something in and thinking of them during it in a way. But I would say maybe like, especially when I was in middle school and I wasn't into a lot of the other games people were into, but i I was like, oh sure, like I'll download this game because you're playing and we can do it together, I guess, even though I would rather be playing like Minecraft or something else. Yeah, I would say... Like with my ex-boyfriend, he was like super into like, like I credit one of my ex-boyfriends with like making me like a foodie. Like just was really into like really fancy restaurants that like, or just like really good restaurants, like figuring out like Michelin stars and all of that kind of stuff. He was also like really into coffee and into like doing like really fancy stuff with
00:38:53
Speaker
coffee like doing pour overs and french presses and all of that kind of stuff the foodie part i think's definitely still but like the coffee thing i like got rid of all of my like coffee accoutrement like a couple of years ago because my brother got me like an espresso machine and so i just use that all of the time now um and i would rather drink that than drink like a pour over honestly fair and i drink like listen i'm not going to a coffee shop and buying like bags of expensive coffee i'm going cafe bustello from i got really into it when i was in florida because it was just everywhere in all of the cafes and yeah i just started drinking cafe bustello all the time and also it's cheap like girl i love that shit definitely folk metal don't judge me i was 16 Yeah, that that's my answer. Like everything else that I have been on because of a crush has been good. I am thankful for it. like okay people haveuch People have shown me amazing films, amazing series, great music. But yeah, the folk metal era was a lot. Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
00:40:05
Speaker
I do think it's it's nice in theory because it's like we want to connect with people over the things that they're interested in. And so I do think that is like and something nice is to like, oh, yeah, like I want to know what you know and I want to know what what you love and to to get to know you better. And I think that that's very sweet. But I do think it will take you to the wildest places of the earth and the internet that you otherwise would not have been.
00:40:28
Speaker
Especially because I can't love something in a normal way. so Yeah, right. It's either I'm all in or I don't care about it at all. Also, I would like to say that I don't think Scott is hyper fixated on the banana, the blueberry banana smoothie. I like from what I remember in the books is it's like a ah it's like a hockey superstition. No, no, no, no, no. When when ah when I mentioned the hyper fixations, I mean, kept learning about hockey plays and. and how he's talking to Maria like he he scored a hat trick last night did you know did you know that and she's like we were together watching the game I know are you asking me what that means yeah okay so that's you were talking about Kip not about Scott I was like I don't think Scott's hyper fixated on the banana I think Scott is this is where like the hockey superstitions come in and this is like Hockey players are superstitious as motherfuckers. Actually, i just saw something the other day about heated rivalry, about how the only people who touch the cup in the show are actors who are playing hockey players because... The rule is like you don't get to touch the Stanley Cup until you win it. Like that's the superstition. And so like they're not even touching the fake Stanley Cup.
00:41:44
Speaker
Like all of the extras who are actual hockey players, they're not even touching the fake Stanley Cup because it's they're so superstitious. Like you can't it's like saying Macbeth in a theater. Like it's the same kind of vibes. Like I think Sidney Crosby. has worn like the same like jockstrap for like too long like too long like hockey players have all sorts of superstitions and this is something we'll even see with Scott at the end of the episode like when we see him getting dressed like he always does I think right skate and then left skate and he starts putting on his right or he puts on his left sock for or he's maybe left skate and then right skate something like that um but he like messes up his superstition because his head's not in the game it'll get down to like They have to be the last ones off the ice. They have to tap their sticks a certain amount of times. They have to like drink only certain colors of Gatorade. And if it like makes, if they like win a game and they do something that like they can credit winning the game to, they'll keep doing it. So Scott's going to keep going back to Stropolis Berry because he drank this banana smoothie on a whim before he had this game. And then he scored a hat trick, which is really hard to do. Yeah.
00:42:52
Speaker
And also he likes Kip. And also he likes And will we saw but i saw some of the superstition with the beards mentioned in the last episode as well, watching Ilio in the cup where they were talking, Shane is at Hayden's house and they're talking about the playoff beard and it's the superstition, which also we get the hot lumberjack comment from Kip. It's just iconic. And I love that moment so much. Goalies, ah goalies are known to be like just super like neurotic, like just weird little freaks. Every time Spencer Knight saves like a puck from going in the net, he does like this little waddle. Like, I don't know how many times he does it, but he does this little like waddle and you can see him do it when he saves a puck. He always does it. That's so funny. I was talking about Marc-Andre Fleury earlier. He always used to talk to his goalposts.
00:43:39
Speaker
And be like, hey, guys, like I was gonna say Eric in the book does that. Yeah, he talks to his goalposts. What was Oh, the big one is like, there's two trophies. So when you do like the Eastern and Western conference, that's like the round before the Stanley Cup finals. And they either get the Prince of Wales trophy or the Clarence S. Campbell bowl. And they like can either touch it and like touch the trophy and not touch it. But people believe that like if they touch the conference trophy, it's a bad omen and it decreases the chances of them winning a Stanley Cup. so like last year so two years ago the oilers and the panthers played and the oilers didn't touch the western conference trophy but the panthers did they touched the eastern conference trophy and then the panthers went on to win and then this year the oilers touched the western conference trophy and the panthers didn't touch the eastern conference trophy But the Panthers still won again. So it's like it doesn't necessarily make sense. But like they're i mean, they're professional athletes. This is also their job, you know, so they're like so concerned with winning that like they will do anything to win. And so this is more like Scott getting his banana smoothie, blueberry banana smoothie is more he's obsessed with winning and he then becomes interested in Kip.
00:45:01
Speaker
Listen, i I come from a very superstitious family. Like both my parents are super, super mega superstitious with a lot of things, especially when it comes to success in their careers. Like my father, he's a journalist and a writer. and he will never, never, ever talk about his projects, like books or or anything like like that until he's like signing to a contract. yeah and My mom does similar things too. I am not as superstitious, but I definitely have some stuff like I, if I would never pass the salt to someone hand to hand, I have to put it on the table because if you pass it hand to hand, you might fight and stuff like that. So I,
00:45:47
Speaker
i I do definitely respect superstitions. I, um yeah, respect for them. I think it's an endearing characteristic of hockey players to me. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:45:59
Speaker
i think this leads us like pretty nicely into the next section where we meet Elena for the first time. um and elena's like very much like do we actually think this guy likes you like or is he just she also says fuck off kyle versus where all the others say thank you kyle she's like fuck off kyle but she did bring him food with extra shrimp so she can get away with eating in there it just she cracks me up i love her so much i think that i don't know if said in this section or the next one i think she's one of the smartest people in the show her and so alana are like tied for smartest people in the show And row and love into Rose! Rose is there too. Yes, absolutely. But I adore Elena. I think she's so cute and adorable and smart and beautiful and funny. I think she's great. She's one of my top characters for sure. Yeah, and I love what Lauren was saying. She's like, are you sure this man likes you?
00:46:47
Speaker
And immediately asked, what does Maria think? Like, I want exactly a smart person's opinion, not yours. And it goes back to our discussion on women as these support roles for these gay queer men. Yes. And that whole conversation we had last week. Yeah. Yeah. And I've definitely been there. Like someone is telling me about their crush and I want to be supportive, but I don't know if they're like deep in the Lulu or not.
00:47:15
Speaker
Right. Like, yeah, i've've I've had, I've had, especially with my, actually, especially with my men gay friends that they're like, oh, I met this man. And I'm like,
00:47:28
Speaker
Are you like the Lulu right now? Or is this man really interesting to you? So I need, I agree with Elena. I need witnesses. That gives me some perspective. Me when I say, I delusional harden up.
00:47:43
Speaker
ahhuh And actually, if if for me as a viewer, if Maria was not like, girl, i would think at this point of the episode, I would also be like, is this just one-sided?
00:47:55
Speaker
Because Scott is like... I don't trust men, you know? So for me, it's like, is this man just wanting to get like special attention for his stupid smoothie to win his games? Or is he actually interested in the man that makes the smoothie? So I am glad we get Maria to help me understand and read the situation because I'm like, yeah, man, I don't trust you, Scott. I don't know if you're flirting like genuinely or just trying to get like best treatment at this shop.
00:48:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I also wanted to shout out a little technology moment. I know what we've touched on this in the last episode with Holonov, but they have touch screens and there's an emoji moment later. um And so I think we're we're fully into the iPhone era, um at least, especially for this crew in this scene in and New York. They have iPhones for sure. Yeah, I think the iPhones came out in 2008. I definitely had my first iPhone. 2007, yeah.
00:48:57
Speaker
In like around 2014. Yeah, this is when they're rising to popularity. Yeah, I got yeah i got my first. Because I have like pictures from 2015 on my phone. And those are yeah from my original yeah iPhone. I have Snapchat memories from back then. Yeah, so definitely like when I was leaving school, like leaving high school, we were like, I had a Snapchat. I had all that stuff. Okay, Elena is also like fix that.
00:49:23
Speaker
Like, make sure you're there every single morning before a game. Yeah. And ah we're so glad that someone is doing strategy here because these two men are, yeah, you know, like,
00:49:36
Speaker
Later on, we're going to joke about lesbian stereotypes here. But oh this is also like a lesbian stereotype or a sapphic stereotype. Like they could have stayed in this mood of flirting without knowing if the other one is interested for years. yeah Just through the banana thingy. Just like happen to do with every single woman that I find interesting. I would just be like, she's just being friendly, right?
00:50:04
Speaker
And continue with my life. No, exactly. Yeah. I also, just as a reminder for our viewers, Elena and Maria are different people. Just in case you. So true. Those are the people scrolling when they're watching. Yeah. Once again. Hello. Put the phone down. So we get into now our next, our final, is this the final smoothie? No, there's a montage, right? Yeah, but this is the final like smoothie long scene. Yes. yeah where they have a bigger conversation this is the serial killer versus spree killer it's so fucking funny it's like bro have you never talked to a person like he's like i'm trying to impress this guy i'm gonna talk about this like what you sound like a a psycho it made me feel so good about my social skills but
00:50:52
Speaker
I was like, okay, I'm not so bad. not so bad, actually. Especially compared to Holland, yeah. Oh my god. Those two, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall. Jesus.
00:51:05
Speaker
it did i I love hockey players. I love hockey players, but Jesus Christ, trying to get them to talk about anything. It's so funny because the captain of the Montreal Canadiens, Nick Suzuki, who was like drafted in 2018, so like could possibly be some of the like inspiration for Shane. because Nick Suzuki is also like a quarter Japanese. He was asked about heated rivalry and his like, it's painful to watch him answer that. Like painful because he's, they're just like a hockey robots. Like they don't, like, I beg of you go watch any Connor McDavid interview. It's like the worst thing that you ever have. Like,
00:51:48
Speaker
to watch they've never talked to somebody outside of the locker room that surfer that's like and it goes who and he's like you know i'm talking about them no it's nothing to watch they're just like they're i said this in our like our last episode i think uh our second episode where they're just like yeah we just gotta like you know get pucks in deep you know we just gotta work on our four check uh yeah you know it's been it's really hard but you know like we're a team so we just uh we just gotta work together like i mean just imagine the amount of concussions that these men are dealing with like those brains are doing their best they're mush they are they're it's full brain in there full smooth brain
00:52:32
Speaker
They get so many concussions knocking around, it smooths it out. It's like when, I forget if it's Shane or Ilya, but one of them says like, oh, we just got to get more goals in the other team. like Yeah, no, literally. Like that's, that that is ah when ha is, when Hayden's like, how how do we beat this other team? And Shane's like, you know, we just got to get other more goals. Like I have heard that verbatim come out of a hockey player's mouth during a media scrum. I've heard it. It's happened. So like Scott being painfully like, painfully awkward i'm gonna talk about spree killers like bro what the
00:53:04
Speaker
The difference between serial killers and spree killers. I mean, I'm the person who talks about cults and I talk about a different kind of serial killer, aka vampires. But um we can all argue that like, Le Stade de Léoncourt is way harder and less creepy than talking about spree killers. Yes. Oh, for sure. For sure. We also in this scene get the iconic hot lumberjacks comment. Uh huh.
00:53:35
Speaker
So great. They don't look like hot lumberjacks. Let's be so fucking for real. They look like fucking mountain men who are gonna cavemen drag you off into your- Oh yeah, this was Kip- this was Kip flirting.
00:53:47
Speaker
Oh for sure. This was Kip signaling gay. YouTube gay? youtube gay Gay? Gay? Question. Gay? Gay?
00:53:58
Speaker
Gay? Gay? also want to say, and part of this whole awkward conversation they're having, which I don't know which one of you put, but it's really funny. Save some true crime fun facts to impress strangers at Smoothie Shop. That was really funny. But, good one. Very funny. Yes, always have fun facts to impress your crush. It works every- My palm trees aren't trees, they're actually grasses. That works on a lot of people, believe it or not. They love my stupid fun facts. Oh, that's me. That's me with zombies. Zombies in Hollywood were just like extracted from ha like Haitian voodoo culture to be like pro-U.S. occupation in Haiti propaganda. So that's mine.
00:54:42
Speaker
Also in this awkward conversation between Skip, there's this thing that some, a very small, i don't know if it's a small percent of viewers because they're mostly queer people and queer people overlap very greatly in these things, is the art behind Scott when he's like, his back is to the window and he's talking about Spreakillers after he's answering these emails or whatever. There is a very specific piece of art that some people are like, is this purposeful or not? And if you know, you know, it is a little colorful, like rainbow, like loop-de-loop type thing that some people, have seen on the dropout show Game Changer.
00:55:14
Speaker
It's a show called Game Changer. It's like hosted by Sam Reich and then there's a bunch of different improv comedians on it. I won't give you the rest of the context. So basically the whole art and theme is this loopy loop thing. encourage you to Google it. It looks so similar. It could almost be the same and people online. So like multiple people sent it to me because they knew I was into both dropout and heated rivalry and they were like, is this purposeful? And it's because Game Changer, the name of the show and then Game Changer, the book series i don't know it's if it's just like a happy coincidence or what since it's like a canadian show and then dropout is very much based in la and it's an american show i truthfully i have no no idea don't know of any overlap between cast crew or characters or whatever but i think it's cute and nice and i i don't know it's fun it's whimsical but also it could just be a rainbow loop the loop So this is where also that conversation about the giant piece in Ilya's living room behind the couch, they say, like a lot of people have said that it looks like the cover art of Heated Rivalry. haven't seen it.
00:56:17
Speaker
I cannot figure out for the life of me how that looks like Heated Rivalry. But the piece above Ilya's bed does look like a face-off. And I know from like watching Letterkenny and from watching Shorzy, that everything Jacob Tierney and i think everybody everything that everyone who worked on this show i think they're everything is intentional and so it would not it would not be a surprise to me that the art is created specifically for this Is it because Skip is the game changer? But also I feel like if we get a game changer name drop in the long game, like about from the the kids. Yes. But I think it's because Skip is the game changer. Yes. yeah Like they changed, they literally changed the game.
00:57:03
Speaker
And that's why this is not a skippable episode. It's just a skip episode. It's skip, but it's not skippable. Yes. Yes. But I encourage you all to also look into the show Game Changer. It's a very fun show. I love it. It's very funny. It will have your mind reeling. And you get really fun Brennan Lee Mulligan quotes. Yes.
00:57:20
Speaker
The Donald Trump as Sauron still to this day. True. Cracks me up. Okay. Okay, so we we jump a lot from bar to smoothie shop and vice versa. And I think we're like, the show is trying to get us used to these characters with a very limited amount of scenarios and a very like clear routine. So we don't get like overwhelmed by the amount of information of new information different from the whole enough thing.
00:57:49
Speaker
Which I appreciate. I appreciate to get settled in a clear routine before you keep changing stuff. I get uncomfortable when things change. So I really like that. We get to enter their routine and these are two people that are very like fond of routine and ah the big theme of like Scott as a character and like how this relationship is born is this whole superstitious thing about repetition and repeating what goes well. So I appreciate that we're on that loop, jumping from one special place to the other special place and not going to any way anywhere else before we get like a full exposition about who are we focusing on this episode. Yeah, I think this is very much a relationship that's about like domesticity and routine. And I think it shows the different ways that they're trying to maybe break out of those routines, but also different ways that they are trying to still uphold those routines as well. So, um I mean, to continue on with routine, we get to see Skip at a hockey game. ah Scott is on the ice and Kip is in the stands with Elena. They're sitting in Scott's seats and Kip is like, is he waving at me? Like, girl,
00:59:06
Speaker
Girl, you little you little dumb baby. And Lena's like, way you wave back. And again, ah god thank God. skip will Skip will not exist without Lena. It would be just like the little anecdote of the hot smoothie barista that I met once and the hot hockey player I met once. And that' said that's it. That's it.
00:59:28
Speaker
And it's important to mention how does Kip and Elena end up in this game is that after Kip does like the hot lumberjack comment, testing the waters, Scott is very awkward and Kip is like, fuck, I misread this whole situation. And then Scott is like, fuck, I need to fix this. So he's like, do you want to go to my game tonight? Yeah, I can get you tickets. But also trying to to seem like it's not a big deal. It's just like nobody else is taking these seats. Right. so
01:00:01
Speaker
If you happen been to want them. No, and like the fact that this is probably like the first person who like Scott really cares about who has come to see him play a hockey since his parents died. Like, yeah. oh oh So sweet.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um this is very sweet. I feel like that is also like a very underlying part of their relationship is it kind of has this like very sweet part that I don't think Ilya and Shane's like relationship really takes on until they like come together at in episode five and six. So it's nice to kind of see that from the start with Scott and Kip.
01:00:43
Speaker
Yeah. So then, speaking of hockey games, we are in Boston. And we get an Iliad cameo. Hey, Bessie. Which we also, i don't know if we mentioned it, but we got a Shane little cameo in an ad when we were at the Kingfisher.
01:00:57
Speaker
And that was really cute. Just a quick little, like, Shane, like when Elena is hollering at Kyle for the remote to put on the game, we get a little Shane moment. I thought that was really cute. But that pisses me off. That continuity pisses me off because Shane doesn't film that commercial until 2016. So what the fuck is the timeline, Jacob Tierney? Answer me. Answer Gun to your head.
01:01:17
Speaker
Lauren, this is like asking Rick Riordan to explain the timeline on Percy Jackson. to your head. Figure it out. No, it's true. i think I think they admitted that they messed up a little bit of the timeline. Which, you know, it happens to the best of us. But we get an Ilya cameo as a good captain and informing us that Scott is good at home but bad at playing elsewhere. We assume that like Kip is like elsewhere. But Ilya chirps at Scott. It was more fun if you were there, which Ilya is known for trash talking. He's known for being a little shudder. He's known for getting under people's skin. we're like, okay, this is normal. But then cut to Montreal, literally the next day, the next day. We get a little Shane moment, reinforcing the Scott loses when not playing at home. But also Shane says, paul he pulls up so cutie. And this is one of my favorite. This is a top three Shane moment, if not my favorite, where he's like, he's like holding his stick look sideways. And he's like, hope you decide to show up next time. he's so proud of himself he's so perfect he's so proud scott spits as a show of disrespect and shane spits back and ah scott says you're starting to sound like him i'm not even saying Who? Not even saying what, but as a way to say, like, I clocked your tea. I know he gave you his hotel number or his hotel room number. And Shane loses it. It is so fucking funny. We get the the TV framework again of the of the, oh, they're fighting, which, like, has Shane Hollander ever fought but anyone before? And we get you can see Shane mouthing, which is so funny because you can see Hudson try not to break, where he's like, you're 45 years old. Go home. You're old.
01:02:53
Speaker
It's so fucking funny because Mance has never thrown his hands in his entire life, but he will throw hands over his mans. Like, that is Shane Hollander. Like, he does not give two shits about anyone else except Ilya. Shane Hollander is like, baby first chirp.
01:03:07
Speaker
Baby's first chirp. He's like- He's so proud. He's like a kid coming back from his first day at kindergarten where he's like, I made a friend and instead he's just beefing. He cracks me the fuck up. It's such a top tier moment.
01:03:18
Speaker
oh There's this amazing fanfic I read recently where um Shane learns how to chirp and it's everything to me. And it yeah like it makes... And like Scott's teaching him. like it's It's everything. It's everything to me. And like Scott is supposed to be his friend, right? They're supposed to be on the same side. He feels comfortable with Scott. That's why he tries it out. And it ends up so badly. like It's so's so funny. It's so funny. like The emotional damage that Shane just took. Well, and also because like in later books, like they are all friends at the Kingfisher, or especially Ilya and stuff. like Outside of hockey, they're great friends. And I learned this and in Role Model 2, where like on the ice, they are hating each other at each other's throats, like killing each other. like Even Shane and Ilya shoving each other up against the boards. But off the ice, they're hanging out. They're there for each other. They're party dudes. No, I love when like and NHL players, because there's like probably
01:04:15
Speaker
there's probably like probably like 10 current siblings who are all in the and nhl like pairs of siblings. And well, then there's the Hughes brothers. And that's all three of them, which is a whole nother thing. But yeah, like I love like the dichotomy between like hockey players. It's really funny because we see it a lot in Chicago with Nick Foligno, who's the captain of our team. And then his brother Marcus Foligno plays for the Minnesota Wild, which is also in our division. And so they like do a lot of like hockey fights cancer stuff, like a lot of fundraisers and things. And they like, it's just really fun to watch them like beat up each other on the ice.
01:04:56
Speaker
Good times. Good times for sure I, yeah, I mean, besides how funny this is, I love the transition from like we're in the ice and then we go, like Amanda said, to the TV framework. Yeah. And we get Kip completely baffled, you know, he's like, why, why are you fighting this man after the game? Like, this makes no sense.
01:05:21
Speaker
And then we get um Mr. Kip, as Danny Mota say. Yeah. I love him so much. He's so sweet. He's such a New Yorker. He's the best dad ever. He's like, I support you. i support your hustle, kid.
01:05:35
Speaker
And that relationship is everything to me. Right. So we're at the party where KEEP is catering. We have this mid-cute trope, you know, like clumsy person that ah spills something on the other person's fancy clothes. of course. the ah The awful, of course, rich people being awful. Awful, rich white woman commenting on, no, they they used to hire good waiters. Now they just hire models, blah, blah, blah. We get more exposition on keep being a scholar and needing money. So he's doing this because obviously his work as a smoothie barista is not paying what it should. Please pay people what they deserve for the amount of hours before.
01:06:21
Speaker
and And we get the I'm not a serial killer from Kip when Scott is like very obviously asking him out. So I know that everyone else was creeped out by ah the spree killer versus serial killer conversation, but apparently Kip was into it.
01:06:39
Speaker
Apparently it worked for him. So we're doing the banter back with it. the callback And ah this is all for us to get like their first date together. So Scott is waiting for Kip, this dark alley, for Kip to be over with his shift.
01:06:57
Speaker
And they're supposedly going to this Mexican restaurant that Scott really likes. But there's a lot of people and i don't know, this feels like he actually was always planning to get Kip to eat at his house because he must have known that he wasn't comfortable. You know, like, because in the book is really different, right? The book is so different.
01:07:19
Speaker
I think the book, well, the book they try to go, then they end going to like some other like burger place or something, but they do end I think it was Scott's idea in the first place was to get Kip home, like at all. So I think even if they had eaten, he was like, do you want to come over for like a drink? Or you want come over for like a nightcap? Yeah, No, what I meant with different is that in the book, Scott changes his clothes. He has like a famous people, these guys with a baseball cap. And here he's just in his two-side chain wearing tuxedos.
01:07:50
Speaker
Oh, no. No, and I think he's like, maybe not trying to get Kit back to his house. I think he's just like so excited by the prospect of like, somebody being in him and wanting to like share an emotional connection with him in some way. she performed me Like this man is alone in his life. Like, I think he's very into like that idea that he maybe forgets about like all of the things. huh.
01:08:12
Speaker
That is happening on a round and like, and this, we see this happen again when they go to the like art studio. Like he's very much like, no, I would love to do the thing that you're interested in. You know, like, let's go do that. Like, I want to support you in whatever way. But it's like, unfortunately he also doesn't think about how he's going react to those situations and, because he's so like petrified of being outed that he like realizes when like he gets there it's kind of it's like this realization that like Shane does in Russia like oh shit it's actually really bad for gay people here like that's also what Scott is going through I think
01:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. yeah Okay, so we get to Scott's apartment, and for me, this was like a Mr. Real Estate parallel. But here we are, what what the whole apartment, which is crazy for New York real estate, is pointing out. I mean, this man is making millions of dollars. yeah Yeah, that is exactly what this is communicating to us and to Kip. But it's also talking about the class differences because we know that Kip is living at home with his father. He's working two jobs. He's struggling to get an education. And Amanda was saying earlier in this episode, like, we don't get the whole Scott trying to pay Skip's student loans, but we do get this, like, Scott tipping, like, huge amount of money. we We never know how much, but we know for from Skip's, like, face that it's ah too much for the standard. And then we get this huge apartment for Skip who's like, I've never been in a place that costs this much. Like, yeah. This is crazy. And I like that we still kept that, even though we are not delving into that as the source of, or part of the source of the conflict. We're getting in this couple, ah but we're still mentioning these men are loaded. These hockey players. And there are other people out there working like two, three jobs trying to get by doing their best to get an education. And ah there's a class inequality issue here that we should at least acknowledge. Yeah. And I mean, for context, like NHL players do not make anywhere near what like and NBA players or MLB players or... football players like NFL players make. um I would say like on average a hockey player is probably making like three or four million a year just to like play and then like oftentimes they'll have like various sponsorships on top of that. Right now the highest paid player in the and NHL his contract doesn't kick until next year but His name's Kirill Kaprizov. He, he works at, or he, he plays in Minnesota and I think his contract is going to be $18 million dollars a year.
01:11:08
Speaker
So, but I mean, like, this is like compared to like football players who are making like $200 million dollars a year. Like, are we talking about football? the American football. Yeah. Because soccer plays also are loaded, right? Yeah. Soccer players, like European soccer players are for sure. Yeah. And I mean, like starting salary. So when you get into the and NHL, like if you're playing games in the and NHL, what they call is like your entry level contract or your ELC. is um caps at 975 000 per year so like conor bedard signed an elc that was 975 but like this kid was driving a really fancy car and some blackhawks promo and i was like that's probably like a like a three or four hundred thousand dollar car and he just has like sponsorships out the ass like with sherwood and a bunch of other like brands and stuff Scott, just accept the check. Pay your student loans. No, this is like, the like i i'm I want to save this for when we're talking about the fan mail because this is like a point of contention in a lot of romance novels and like, it's it's such a stupid, I'll just wait, I'll just wait. Yeah.
01:12:18
Speaker
Yeah. I did want to say that this is also where I think it was a ruse to kind of get Kip back to Scott's apartment is because Scott's like Kip is taking it all in this look at the view and he's like well, like having his like, you know whole moment of all of this. And Scott in the background is taking his clothes off. And um and so Kip turns around to like a mostly naked Scott.
01:12:40
Speaker
and scott's like do you want a tour now or kip goes or i pick or and i love that i love this for multiple reasons first of all just because that's a hot line that is a hot that that energy that exchange i think hot as fuck second i think or picking a sneaky other thing or a second like the sneaky third thing i think that is i'm a hater a known hater of dichotomies i will always pick this pick the sneaky third non-binary gray area morally whatever choice i always pick that and just like Scott doesn't even pick anything else like or Kip doesn't even pick anything else he's like whatever Scott says that's not the tour that like whatever Scott is doing that means taking his clothes off Kip's picking that no I don't definitely done that to a hookup before like they've gone to the bathroom and I like they come out and I'm wearing lingerie I'm like wait Lauren just slip it as a little more comfortable. Lauren has game. We already have discussed that Lauren is very flirty. No, I have game. I have game. We're now discovering that they have game.
01:13:35
Speaker
I have game. I don't know what tell you. I have game. Lauren so much game. I mean, listen. I'm happy for you. This is where I'm also like, okay, maybe he was just like, I like, as soon as I get in the door, I'm like, I'm taking my bra off. I'm taking my pants off. Like so that kind of thing. I can see where his was like a little more sexual connotation for sure. But I was also like, you know, and if he was like, okay, I'm just going go change. That would have been okay too.
01:14:03
Speaker
um So yeah, that's definitely there. are I mean, I have thoughts there, but. you know I don't think it's negatively coercive. I think it's suggestive. No, no, no. I think it's suggestive. No, no, Scott has game. Scott has game.
Body Image in Media
01:14:18
Speaker
Scott and I have game. When you know the vibes, what the vibes are, like I wouldn't do that to a person. or i know And then like Scott probably wouldn't do that to a person who like he didn't have that vibe with. No, no, This was clearly a date. Yes, when I know what the vibes are, come on. it's Yeah, this was clearly a date. we We know, we know. We then get the sex scene. I think this is a different story than Holandorf, right? So it makes sense that the scenes are different. I do think that we're falling back into something more traditional here.
01:14:53
Speaker
regarding how we shoot sex scenes. I think what what we were doing with Holonov was amazing because of how different it felt. Like we were addressing certain events of intimacy in a light and sound manner that felt new to me. I think here werere we're going back to the silhouettes, clair-obscure thing.
01:15:19
Speaker
We get sounds, but we get less moaning, even if we get some. And then we get the, wow, you're so beautiful, which is so romantic. But at the same time, i wanted to take this opportunity to open the conversation about body types. Because I have a lot of friends who are like, okay, I love this series. And it makes sense that the hockey players have this like abs and huge ass. But the art history grad student smoothie barista, why is he so ripped?
01:15:54
Speaker
And this is no shade to the actor. But I just wish that we could see a different body type. I mean, we kind of get that with Harris, because I think Harris is the only one in any the- well, and also some of the other non-couples, like I think Eric- what's his name? Yes, Eric, like Kyle doesn't work out, and then Ryan Price's boyfriend doesn't work out.
01:16:14
Speaker
And so I think in other couples there are, but I understand what you mean about this visual medium, because tip just kind of likes working out, and it For the like TV series, like I understand the amount of pressure that I would feel as an actor in the industry as it is. If I was the only non-athlete one as a character, that has to get naked. But I also wish that we could diversify. Because as much as I enjoy cute ass...
01:16:46
Speaker
I'm not into Buffy men at all ah so that might be why but ah but I do have a lot of like I have a friend who's gay and has struggled a lot with body image because of how the gay community treats bodies that are not like this Adonis image of like the R.I.P. man and he was like I was really hoping for Kip to be a different kind of mud of body since he's not an athlete And yeah i i i I do feel a bit weird about that. well and And also because he we see him naked a lot. like Not even just when he's with Scott. We see his abs a lot in the camera. And and I'm thinking here of series like Queer as Folk. that were giving us different body types, different types of gay, of being gay. And i I really hope that next season when we meet other characters, we get to see gay men being read as attractive by other men without them being ripped.
01:17:51
Speaker
For as much as I love the whole Connor story... Huge, beautiful ass. Dump truck of an ass. I want diversity in the bodies that I see in my screen.
01:18:04
Speaker
No, and that's, I mean, that's so real. I think this is more largely symptomatic of homicidistic. gay culture is itself yeah definitely think there is it's like something as a person who's in queer culture like i have always noticed the way that gay men who don't have the body types who don't like fit into the gay archetypes of like a twink or an otter or a bear how they are like exiled from the community in a way and how they are often pushed towards more accepting queer communities like the lesbian community or like the trans community or the non-binary community and so I think that is like I think Kip being buff is a little more symptomatic of like gay culture i think it also plays into like conversations about desire and like who do we desire um and what bodies are seen as desirable um especially in media because i was just thinking i've seen like i mean so many different tweets and everything about this but like one of my favorite i don't want to say internet personalities because i know they have like a master's degree but like they do a lot of posting their name is erica hart They were like, let's think about like this show would not do as well if we, if these were both black men characters or if any, if it was predominantly a black show, it would just not do as well. And that's because that's not what white people want to see on the screen. And like, there's so much we can do about that, but like, we have to think about like, what is unfortunately going to sell this show And especially in an episode that you're already concerned about because it's taking away from maybe the main storyline. It's telling a different story and you want to make sure that viewers come back. Of course, you're still going to put two hot dudes in this show and make them buff and stuff because there are people who are just watching this show for the fetishization of gay male bodies and for like looking at hot men. Like, Absolutely. I mean, even like I went to, I went to a heated rivalry, rivalry warehouse party a couple of weekends ago in Chicago. And I mean, love the organizers, everything. They had the edits running on the screen um on a, like on a projector all night. And like, there were more screams for like the sex scenes than there were for like any of the other content that was being shown in these edits. Yeah. and so like like there is a certain level of women fetishizing men and their bodies in this show men fetishizing men and men fetishizing men we're talking about the gay community as well and i think if we saw kip i mean kip in the book is a buff person like he goes to the gym and like yeah i meet queer people all the time that are very like aware of how they look But I think it is both like symptomatic of queer culture, a but not even queer culture. I think it's symptomatic of gay men culture. And I think it's symptomatic of like yes what bodies are valued on the screen by the audience that this show is being presented to, which is the audience for romance novels, which is women.
01:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, i I fully agree as a woman myself, but not a straight woman. I just don't see at the i don't see the appeal. like I like cute asses, but i rip men just make me feel uncomfortable, I think. I don't like men that are stronger than I am.
01:21:42
Speaker
Personally. I think for me, it gets to a point. Like, i some of some of it is, like, attractive, but there it's sometimes when it's too much, like, some of the skip scenes where they're, like, they've got the eight pack of them, and every single muscle has to be defined and outlined and whatever. Like, don't get me wrong, there but i think the parts of, like, skip I find most attractive is, like, when they're at the countertop being really, and i'm gonna we're going to get to it here after this scene, but, like, it's those kinds of moments that I find where they're, like, intense and talking to each other and more attractive instead of where they're all, like, let me flux for you real quick.
01:22:13
Speaker
type i know that yeah I mean, we're all on a discord together and something that I kind of posed this question a couple of weeks ago to our discord members about like, if you identify as femme or a woman, like, why are you interested in this show? And I think a lot of people are just interested in representations, especially queer people are just interested in representations of like queer people having A happily ever after because Jesus Christ, how much queer media do we consume where everybody dies at the end? Yeah.
01:22:41
Speaker
So I think there's like that part of it, but also just like seeing emotional attachments from like men, which we normally don't see. Men being vulnerable. Men being vulnerable and emotionally, especially emotional attachments to another one another that we don't ever really see in media. I think that is, I think that's something that draws a lot of people to this show.
01:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with all of that. Like, I wasn't surprised. I was just like kind of bummed by it. Like, yeah, no, I mean, it was doing so much and I was like, oh, okay. Hollywood aesthetics for bodies. yeah And, and this is, I don't want to throw shade to these beautiful, beautiful, beautiful humans that are portraying these characters like Hot Gun. I admire them deeply. They're so young and they're doing so good work. But sometimes when interviews go into food and regime and all of this, I get so anxious about yeah the messages that we're sending about bodies. I get so anxious about viewers that have experience or are experiencing eating disorders. And also I'm a vegan, so every time they talk about meat, I just skip the conversation. Yeah, I just i just wanted to throw up. like For me, animal cruelty is not sexy. But also, like I understand like them being super excited about like getting into the hockey player body, but...
01:24:08
Speaker
I do feel like I wish interviewers and journalists and all of these people would tone it down with the body image and with the regime because it can be so harmful. like someone can what like We know that a lot of people watch this show and went straight to the gym, you know? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean, same.
01:24:31
Speaker
I want an ass like Billy Rose House. I understand, I'm doing my squats, even though we know that's never gonna happen for me. But it worries me that people that are a very vulnerable moments of their lives and their body image are gonna get harmed by the focus that interviews are giving to how the actors look. And I really appreciate when we get journalists that are interested in other their stuff. And I think even Connor and Hudson are like have expressed being a bit like tired of being asked the questions about their butts and their abs because they're doing so much more. you know like Yeah, their bodies are the way they like portray characters. like They're working with bodies, but bodies are so much more than just being ripped.
01:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. i mean, yeah, it's it's a lot to, like, think about and, like, figure out, especially since, like, Shane, like, we've talked about and we've mentioned before, like, definitely has an eating disorder in the long game. And, like, these, like, and then, like, is basically ignored by the author. So, like, that is definitely, like... something we have to consider when we think about this show but I mean I think I think there is more diversity in the other books yeah I really hope that when we get some of the other couples in the future yeah but I mean it really it really not only is it about like casting and who shows up for these kind of roles but I mean like when when we are casting
01:26:03
Speaker
Or like when people are getting cast, they're being cast based on height, weight, looks, you know. And so if this is coming from the books, then we're kind of having to stick to what the books have to say. And you know what, if if Game Changers is really stucky romance... then yeah, of course Kip is going to be a Buffalo a buffalo guy. Like, have you seen Sebastian Stan? Jesus Christ. I also want to shout out, and I think this really highly relates to Hudcon's matching sex sells tattoos, I think is really relevant to this whole overarching conversation, is that they have the matching tattoos that say sex sells because a lot of it does, I mean, and granted this is, Kind of our whole thesis of this podcast is why heterogivalry is so addicting and not just because of the sex. Sex is obviously a part of it and the the nudity and the intimacy. But there is, of course, the aspect that sex sells and having these bodies on display like this, especially these like, header like not in a heteronormative in a way, but so like, what is the word that I'm looking for? Like, popularly like normative in a way kind of bodies having them on display like this is what makes them popular yeah and I mean like like something I am nervous about is the way that like Harris is going to be cast because we know in the books that Harris is like does Harris call himself fat or like No, no, it's hardly it's mentioned like maybe once or twice where it's just he just doesn't look the same as the above hockey players. But I don't think he's overweight. I think he's maybe just a little chubby or he's just a little round.
01:27:37
Speaker
Like it's not mentioned in any other way. But to me, I feel like people do think of him as fat, which I don't think he is. I think he's just he just doesn't work out to be. you know what? Same. Real. ru Yeah. This is why i shout out to Alice Osman for always drawing ah Nick Nelson with ah little fat rolls. ah Even though he's a rugby player, we love that kind of representation of chubby man. I love and it.
01:28:02
Speaker
I mean, something we were talking about before we got, we started recording was Netflix is releasing a America's Next Top Model docuseries like Talal. Yeah. And something that Lel and I were saying was like, I was considered fat. Like I was above a size four. And Tyra Banks told every girl on that show that they were fat if they were above a size four. And like, this is when, you know, like cocaine chic was like a big thing. Like literally like Gen Z, you guys don't like Gen Z and Jeldon Alpha. You don't have idea. don't understand like how bad it was in the early two thousand s Like if you couldn't see girls' ribs, they were fat.
01:28:37
Speaker
Like you had to be able to see like their collarbones. Like everybody, nobody ate like at all. And so like, I think there has definitely been made, like there's definitely been like so much more like push for body positivity. But I know that as soon as they cast a...
01:28:55
Speaker
not ideal body for harris it's immediately going to be why did they cast this fat actor like this fat actor or we're gonna get the bridgerton discourse about oh this actor is so brave yes for you know yeah ah or like yeah the actor then getting hate for being fat and like just facing like like people are terrible on the internet um and i mean we've seen that in this fandom in more ways than one yeah but i do think that the creators of the show will take it carefully and with the greenest salt will be absolutely aware and you know jacob tyranny and the rest of the crew and directors i think are really great with this sort of stuff and we'll keep that in mind and i believe in that yeah
01:29:38
Speaker
I want to, like, I'm going to mention this series later, ah Young Royals, but ah for me, it was such, like it loved that show it really changed my life in many ways. Like, I really loved, it was it was amazing to me to see teenagers with acne as an acne prone person.
01:29:57
Speaker
yeah to see them have like Edwin he like the the actor of of of uh Villa he is like so so so beautiful and hot and right now he's like fans are crazy for him and he has like doesn't have perfect teeth doesn't have perfect skin I love the character of Elise and how they treat fat phobia and how it interwines with ah race issues as well. So I think there's there's room for
Relationship Dynamics and Misuse of Language
01:30:31
Speaker
this. Like we have been educating audiences a bit more and I really hope, and as Samantha said, I trust the people that are making this show to to take that risk in the future and also to protect the actors that they ah take the risk with, right?
01:30:48
Speaker
Right, yeah. And I mean, I think this is like I mean, both Hudson and Connor have like visible imperfections like Connor's teeth and stretch marks. Like these are like mostly unaltered, quote unquote. Like they're not, you know, like anyone in the Trump administration who's full is so much filler. They could fucking drown themselves and stick to the bottom of the lake. Like these are like in a world where everybody doesn't look the same as they did two years ago. And especially in a world that's turning back to this like skinny as chic with Ozempic. Like, right. Yeah.
01:31:27
Speaker
I think it is important to have those bodies represented, but also we want to like critically think about why they are not represented when we think about Kip or Scott Kip Kip. When we think about Kip Kip.
01:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, the the sex scene is like, we get cute consent, nonverbal consent, which is great to model. And we like, I think for us, the most important part of this scene, like us as viewers, why is this scene like we're we've have been discussing how intimacy furthers the plot and then reaches the plot here, what we're getting is this is not hollow enough. This is not another hollow hollow enough story, because for all the issues that we're gonna see this couple has with communication, they are great at communicating the feelings that Shane and Ilya are not even uttering. You know, like, ah so Scott is like, I'm so into you. You're so beautiful.
01:32:23
Speaker
Can you stay? Please stay. Why leave? And i just think it's it's, again, we were talking about the importance to portray diversity. And I'm glad that we get On the one hand, the hookup on like kind of the download that we get with like 10 years of Ilia and and Shane. And then we get what we have collectively collectively decided as a fandom to call the U-Haul lesbian ah of our universe. yeah Lauren, do you want to talk about the U-Haul lesbian? Yes. Okay. So I had this conversation with one of my friends because...
01:32:59
Speaker
We were like just talking about this episode and they were like, is this love bombing? And I was like, I don't think this is love bombing at all. And so to clarify, I did look up what love bombing is. And so love bombing is an attempt to influence a person by demonstrations of attention or love. Psychologists have identified love bombing as a possible part of the cycle of abuse and i have warned against it. It's used by cults. um It's psychological manipulation. And i think like it is focused on like constant, nearly constant contact and like constant kind communication. But the thing about love bombing is that it starts out one way.
01:33:40
Speaker
Like it starts out at like, here's flowers, here's this money, here's this constant connection, like here's all of this, here's all of this. And then it immediately shifts to something negative. It shifts into abuse in some way, shape or form. And so I don't think that what is happening with Scott and Kip is love bombing at all I think it's more aligned with like u-hauling which is what lesbians do like I know lesbians that have literally like gone out on a date have like talked every night for a week and then been like why don't we move in together and like even my best friend like she knew probably within like a month or like
01:34:18
Speaker
like three or four dates of dating her now current partner who she lives with. Like that, that was the guy she wanted to date. And I think there is, I think there's something really beautiful about that. Like just knowing that this is your person. This is a person you feel so comfortable with. I think it kind of overrides like a lot of the like tendency currently, especially on social media, to co-opt the language of therapy, of things like love bombing, gaslighting, all of these things, but to not critically think about them and to kind of just take them as face value. And like I said, like love bombing, the implication of it is that a lot of love happens and then all of the bad stuff comes right after that. And so like it has to have that second side to it, which Scott and Kip's relationship doesn't have. I think Scott and Kip's relationship does have is like a lack of communication. Like, yes, they have a lot of conversations about how Scott feels and like what he wants. And I think they talk a lot about like consent and sexuality, but I don't think they ever communicate with one another. So like,
01:35:30
Speaker
I don't see this situation of Scott basically being like, move in I don't see that as like love bombing. I see it more of as a U-hauling thing, but there is still work to be done in that kind of situation, just like there is in any other relationship. And like to call back to something that we've talked about before, like, like et cetera in our pod is like the friction is important because it helps us tell a story. And like, there has to be some kind of like,
01:35:57
Speaker
conflict. um And it is not that Scott is love bombing. Kip, it is a totally different thing. Yeah, and I think it's important you said something here like co-opting therapy vocabulary actually harms victims. Language is important because language has power and if you take the word that I can use to name my pain and my struggle and my trauma and you banalize it to the point where it stops meaning things then you are disempowering me.
01:36:30
Speaker
I cannot longer defend myself or name what is being done to me in a way that ah takes me out of that situation, in a way that helps me ask for help and be taken seriously. If every single thing that someone does, like grand gestures, grand romantic gestures, not everything is um love bombing. And right you pointed out something that is very important. What love bombing is, it's a strategy to then be able to abuse and be violent. Yes. But have the person hooked to you in a way that you can like like you're always compensating for the abuse then with grand gestures and with a lot of stuff. So what what I always say when I talk about abusive relationships with people and I try to explain why people stay in abusive relationships is exactly because of that. Because if if it's only bad, you don't stay.
01:37:29
Speaker
You stay because... confusing as fuck because you are in a situation where one day have the most beautiful person by your side you are the center of the world and the next day you're being treated
Romantic Storytelling and Audience Engagement
01:37:44
Speaker
like shit and that is the cycle of abuse so i i i take personal offense when people just don't use language carefully, not only because I'm a major and a language professor, you know, but also because I know how important it has been to our communities to have language to call the things that we need to communicate. So don't take that power away from us, please. And actually research your terms before you use them to just criticize a show. Yeah, absolutely. I think U-Haul is way more apt. I have seen so many people U-Haul. is definitely a phenomenon. wouldn't say that I've done it. I've definitely had the experience of the lesbian date of, which I'm not a lesbian, but the 10-hour date of just doing all of this together. And then it's like, all of a sudden, it's been four days together. And you're like, oh, well, okay. Yeah, I've definitely done that before. I've seen people who on their second date, they're like, oh, do you want to move in? I've seen it. I've seen it much. It happens. It happens. And you know what? I think, I think approaching those kinds of situations, like with an open mind and like being aware and like understanding the signs of love bombing, but also like making sure that you like feel comfortable with this person and like you understand your boundaries and all of those kinds of things. I think like, I think there's kind of a beauty to you hauling and like starting a relationship so quickly with someone and Yeah. Like learning change and grow with them. But I think you have to be open to all of those things.
01:39:20
Speaker
it's definitely trial by fire i would say it's definitely not for everyone because it can also just so quickly kill a relationship and it did nearly happen to skip and they pulled through but they we get this really cool framing in this show about the kitchen counter and the other bars and like the counters to signal the distance and closeness in the relationship because we get this moment where scott is so intense and he's so polite he's like i'm just gonna dump this all on you and please just like Just listen to me for a minute and he just is so intense. And to me, this is what I think he is so attractive for. He's like, I want you so fucking bad and I'm asking for what i want. Which he does not usually ask for what he wants. We know as book readers that he's such a private guy and lives such a private life, but one really knows anything aside from his parents dying. They know nothing else about him. that so he never really asks for what he wants wants because he usually just puts hockey first and everything else. He puts everyone else except himself first. So now he wants Kip so bad. and I think he's so polite to to he's just so intense here and I think it's really sweet but Kip for like a second after Scott like word vomits all over Kip you think he for a sec he's like please just say something and you think Kip's about to get up and walk away but he walks around the counter and sits next to Scott and it's a really sweet moment he's like I'm not leaving your or he's like i also i also wanted to say, Scott says, I want you to be here when I get back back from practice later and from my game tonight. And this is so sweet. i have a This is a great feeling of having friends or partners be home when you come home from like work or like a long day or whatever. And they're so excited to see you and they just want to hear all about it. And you just like you get to unwind and there's just someone at home waiting for you with like open arms. And it's really sweet. And so I totally...
01:41:03
Speaker
understand that feeling and it's so sweet but I thought this was like this whole section was like when I thought Scott was like very basically at his most attractive where I was he was like let me be so open and vulnerable with you and then let's see you all I thought that was great yeah yeah for me there's nothing that is hotter than people being vulnerable people being like I am not gonna buy into the narrative that my feelings are shameful and I'm gonna offer this very precious thing to you right right um um and you should feel at least honored that I trust you this much and that I'm gonna throw this at you um and what is not done in a manipulative way when it's not done with weird intentions behind it I find it super hot
01:41:50
Speaker
Yeah. So then we get this montage. The music starts and it's super cute. It's so fun. they're i think it's this one clip just plays on a loop inside my head all of the time. Every time it comes up on my feed, I must play it. It's where Scott walks in the door looking for Kip and sees him on the couch with his glasses on. And Scott throws his bag down and tackles Kip on the couch. I love that clip. so much. so like The way he just throws it down and he's so excited. He's like, fuck everything else. I need to hug you right now and tackle you. So cute. yeah
01:42:22
Speaker
It's a really sweet montage. We do get more on Kip's relationship with his father. And this is the start of the lying, which is actually like a big sad face. First it's with his dad and then his friends. yeah yeah It's a real fairy tale montage. Yeah, and and and and because of that, because he's so good,
01:42:39
Speaker
and we know how long the episode is. Like, when you're there and you're seeing this fairy tale thing and you know you you still have a big chunk of the episode. You're like, oh, something's gonna happen. Yeah. And I was so stressed and it happened because then we have the art gallery. Yes. Yes. And we have this first conflict. I loved how the echo of the gallery made it like super evident how exposed Scott felt.
01:43:10
Speaker
Exactly. I felt like that was brilliant. Also, I already mentioned Young Royals, but Jacob Journey did acknowledge that Young Royals is one of like the inspirations for this series, for the way he approached these stories. And I think for me, I see that influence specifically in this episode with Scott and Kip. We get Scott shushing a Kip. Oh, I would walked out.
01:43:33
Speaker
Season three of Young Royals. Is this? Yeah, season three of Young Royals. Ville does that to Simone. And it's so aggressive. And it's a point where you're like, oh boy, I'm not on your side today. And that's how I felt with Scott Lewis. This was so unnecessarily aggressive. And it reminded me of that. And it reminded me of you. Like, it's being in the closet can be so ugly. Yeah.
01:43:59
Speaker
yeah ah In Vila's case, it's no longer the closet because they're out already, but it's still like the the weight of being a public figure and not having privacy. It really makes you discover things about yourself that are not ready to see. Because you go into this like very fight or flight instinct that makes you so, so, so aggressive towards the people you love sometimes because you feel in constant danger. Also,
01:44:27
Speaker
Couldn't we just pretend that Kip was an art consultant for the very loaded hockey player that wants to buy art because he's loaded? Like, that brings me back to what I was just talking about earlier, which is like the fact that Scott's just kind of like a yes man. Like, he's kind of like a, yeah, sure, I'll do that. Like, I want to like love and support you and show you all the support that you, because I think like Scott is like a very like giving partner. Like I, I feel like, like we, I mean, we see this in the book when he tries to give Kip $50,000, which I would take, but like, I just, I think it's just this, like, he does not like think through things. Like he is just so excited to like have someone who cares about him and like, have this relationship with someone that he like did not even think through that. Like he did not even was, he wasn't even like, how might I think about this? You know?
01:45:21
Speaker
So I, yeah, the, I, that would make too much sense for these men. Also, men don't think. men Men are stupid. I'm sorry if you're... You know what? And I'm not sorry if you're a man and you're listening to this podcast. You need to do better, okay? You have been you have been treated so nicely for your entire life. People have just fawned over you your entire life. They think you're so smart. You're not, okay?
01:45:49
Speaker
Definitely not beating the men have only one neuron allegations with this dynamic. Because you had two full-grown adults and none of you could think about a way this would be less dangerous for you both. Also,
Societal Expectations and Personal Growth
01:46:04
Speaker
this is how I know neither of you bitches have anxiety. Like, this is how I know none of you have anxiety, generalized anxiety disorders. Because the way that I would have been like, okay, where are my exits? Like, let me look up the location. Let me let me look up everything. Same. You bitches aren't neurodiverse. Same.
01:46:22
Speaker
Poor Scott basically has a panic attack with this art scene, though. like Like, he does have a lot of anxiety with it. He might not have a generalized anxiety disorder, but he definitely did not think that through. But he that's why like he like shoves his way out of there and is like, excuse me. And then he's like heaving as they get back to the apartment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and Which makes it much more so like suspicious. like For sure. Man, you're trying to be discreet. You storming out of this gallery not discreet at all. At all! also makes me think about, I was reading, think it was a series of threads, a queer hockey player like was talking about this show and how it wasn't like representative of like his experience as a queer hockey player who was closeted, which, you know, mean, take that with a, with a grain salt, but like, he was talking about how like even opportunity to go out with his boyfriend in public, he would have never even taken that. Like the suggestion of that was, would have been like would have put him off so much from the scenario like he was talking about how if anyone in the locker room even made a joke in some way shape or form like we talked about this in the last episode but where um JJ says like if Rosanoff fucks you I'm gonna fuck him back he was talking about how like that would have like he would have spiraled from that like he would have walked out of the locker room and like never like wanted to set foot back in it How even the hint of that is enough. And so that was like, this kind of seems like a, like a thing that if Scott was really that afraid of like, like, I don't want to say if Scott was really that afraid because I've just been saying this whole time that he doesn't really think things through. But yeah, I mean, I think. I think he definitely can have a panic attack and obviously because he didn't think this through. But I think it is like this scene is probably my least favorite in this episode, just because seems so far fetched. Like it seems like Scott would have never even have done that, like in general, like he would have been like, oh, you can go by yourself. Oh no, to me it makes sense because he really wants to make Kip happy and it seems like he is picturing a future where he is out just after he retires but wants to do something that is as fair as possible for his out boyfriend. And I don't think that for a minute Scott has just taken for granted in any sense.
01:49:00
Speaker
And he acknowledges the struggle and that's why he makes these efforts. It just, it reminds me of fellow travelers. There's one scene where one of them is like, I want to go to a restaurant and have dinner with you.
01:49:15
Speaker
We can do that. men have Men go to restaurants together. Like two men can be seen at a restaurant together and not be read as queer. And it it it really breaks my heart the way that when you're hiding who you are, every single thing you do seems dangerous. Because every single happy thing for you is a door or a window into your real self. Right. So for everyone else, it's just two men at a gallery. But for him, it's a date. So he feels super exposed. Yeah. And I mean, for a man who is like heavily being scrutinized in the media already for his play, his playing style, who he is, is ah you know, all of this stuff, like I can see, i can see why this is like an anxiety inducing situation. Yeah, I also think in this general section, we also get the can I fuck you after Kip makes him the smoothie, which was really sweet and really like a nice consent moment and also just like a sweet moment of them doing stuff for each other or of just Kip doing stuff for him. And then we also get Kip finding the socks. stuff We are so not Holonov. Holonov would never. There's so many parts of this that Holonov would never. Yeah, this feels like a...
01:50:24
Speaker
hey, I know the thing that happened at the art gallery was rough, but I'm still okay, like kind of situation, even though I'm not okay and I'm not expressing that to you. Yeah, for sure. i thought that was a really sweet moment and really cute, especially because like that was some of the kind of angst. week I mean, we get more angst at the end, but this was some of the stronger angst. And so to get a bit of soothingness after that was was pretty nice. And then we get the bar there where they're back at the bar again. Kingfisher. Love it. i want I want to go to the Kingfisher. And Elena Clark.
01:50:56
Speaker
Elena clocks what is happening. I love her so much. Kip says that he's happier with the saddest face ever because he's caught in this in-between and we just once again realize that Elena and the women in the show are the smartest people because she just understands what is going on. And this is why later on we get the you deserve sunshine. and I know we're not there yet, but we this is a great transition to some of this turmoil because then we get... and Sorry, I know we're going a little fast, but then we get... Scott saying that I left something in the closet for you, which is like, come on, that metaphor should not be going over your head. But Scott left Kip a suit, a tux in the closet for him that is like was like fitted to his size. This is a thing that happens in the book where they are going back and forth about what to wear for this fundraiser that they're both going to because Kip is going with Elena and Scott is going as like part of the host or whatever. And we get we get this whole thing with also, again, emoji shout out the technology moment. Oh, that was another technology moment I wanted to shout out. We see Kip when he's finding the so the socks. He puts, and we assume it's like an application, he puts some paper mail in, but he has a ah touchscreen on his phone. And I'm like, why are we sending paper mail and paper applications when you probably could do it online? but ah Grad school is sometimes very weird about that. So, yeah, let's not.
01:52:17
Speaker
In 2018, I had to say that I accepted an offer, sending it via physical mail. And I was in Colombia and the school was in Massachusetts. Yeah.
01:52:29
Speaker
bro Yeah, that's academia for you. We get to the fundraiser. Again, Elena is our queen. We get the lore drop on Scott's parents and Vaughn is like super supportive about it and is like, hey man, you okay? We get the awkward skip convo where they're looking at different directions, which is so symbolic because they're kind of at different points in their relationship. you know Kip wants to be out. Scott does not want to be out, but they're out together at this function, but they'rere they're just looking past each other. We get the dance with Elena. People are clapping. People, maybe in the book, people are like, maybe like thinking that maybe they're together. But really, Elena is like, if you hurt my boy, i will end you, basically. Not really, but it feels that way. But she says he deserves sunshine, which reminder, first time they fucked in the dark.
01:53:12
Speaker
They fucked in the dark. And so our boy deserves sunshine. They all deserve sunshine. Okay. and I said this is long games coded the nobody wants to be kept a secret where I'm at in the long game I think it's coded yeah and then it cuts to them in the dark in the kitchen it's so sad also can I shout out I think Robbie GK who plays Kip he sounds Canadian the way he says bar he's supposed to be from New York I can hear the Canadian on it I'm listening at capital L I'm listening he says he misses his dad which like he didn't mean it like that but also like aww yeah no it's so Yeah, the first time I heard that, I didn't catch why he was saying, like, I didn't mean it like that, and then I was like, oh. caught me since he's bad because he's there is bad. Yeah.
01:53:58
Speaker
All right, people. Welcome to the Dead Dads Club, Scott. Yeah, Dead Dads Club. Ilya's going be there so very soon.
Cultural Perceptions and Future Narratives
01:54:05
Speaker
but It's Amanda, Ilya, and Scott. Once again, homophobia, I was reminded, is the antagonist. Like, that was what was going through my mind because that is their biggest barrier right now. It's not because it's literally just the homophobia is their biggest barrier right now. Well, it's it's it's not even the homophobia. It's the NHL. Like, remember, when we talked about this in the first episode, like, our big antagonists are the NHL and Russia, and it's because of the anti-homophobia in both of those places. And so... homophobia is a symptom of the larger cause
01:54:36
Speaker
Yeah, I half expected Scott to give a big speech to Kip because it seems to be his theme in this series is big speeches. But no, he does not give a big speech to Kip. I don't think that's like Scott as a person. i think that's like Scott who he needs to be in the media. Like, I think true i think he is like, ah like, I mean, we see this with Shane and Elia and we see it with Scott. Like, I think he is a different person in front of the media. And so like in the media, he has to be Captain America. You know, like he has to be the captain of the news. Literally, he's Captain America. He's the captain of the US team. That's what we call them. They're Captain America. Like, come on, It's true. Like, so yeah, like, he's got to be the Captain America. He's got to be the figure who gives all the inspirational speeches and stuff. But I don't think that's, Scott is not that, as a person, like,
01:55:19
Speaker
Yeah, and we get the sad music. Kip goes home and he's so sad. He has mail, really exciting mail, but he's crying. And also I wanted to say another difference from the book. Scott shows up to Kip's house for dinner and surprises him. And also in the book, Kip has a mom and his sister, but I don't know where they are in the show. Budget. Amanda, we don't have the budget. Yeah. We don't have the budget. I guess. We don't have the budget. Remember, we have $3. And a dream. What did you say the first time? $3, two what? Two freaks and a dream.
01:55:56
Speaker
Two freaks. It's not even US dollars. It's Canadian dollars. So even less. It's that weird yeah Monopoly money up there. yeah That smells like maple syrup.
01:56:10
Speaker
also so It literally does. you There's like, i if you scratch the maple leaf on all their money, it smells like maple syrup. Why? Because it's Canada.
01:56:21
Speaker
I don't know. I love how I love how US people perceive Canada as this like fairyland, you know, like it's fantasy land. And there's a lot of like mythological ideas around Canada because the US sucks so big. Like there is nothing better for Canada's PR than the US being what it is.
01:56:49
Speaker
And that is how we forget all the crimes that Canada has committed against minorities because the US is just there. I was reading about ah Japanese Canadian people and I was like, wait, Canada had Japanese internment camps?
01:57:04
Speaker
Yes. They didn't cover that in US s history. And let's not forget about all the indigenous kids that there. The First Nations. Okay, I do know about that one. I am well aware of that one, but I didn't know they had Japanese internment camps. so Yep.
01:57:17
Speaker
Yeah. The thing is, the bar is very low with their neighbor. So that is why Canada seems like paradise. Because the U.S. is hell. Yeah. I'm- We're aware. We're aware.
01:57:29
Speaker
me and my friends made plans to to move away to Europe when when things get bad. Welcome back, Neptune and Aries. We haven't seen you since- And when is, when is things get bad? Like, where is the red line at Amanda? Because when thing gets, gets bad, when is that?
01:57:46
Speaker
I'm going to just, I'm, my plan is just to drive into Canada or walk into Canada. Who fucking cares? And then get out that way. But that my my question is Amanda said when it gets bad.
01:57:58
Speaker
Yeah. Where is the line? Yeah. do Towards the end of Trump's administration, I think if he tries to go for a third illegal term, I think it is when I'm like dipping. I'm like, I love my mom so much.
01:58:10
Speaker
Unfortunately, if she's not coming, I'm leaving her because there's no way I'm staying again. That's when I'm taking my best friend and yoinking him away somewhere else because no, we're not doing that. um Also, that's like you guys know, um Neptune entered Aries today. The last time Neptune was in Aries April 1861, the day after the Civil War started.
01:58:32
Speaker
Okay, okay. I just, you said Neptune enter Aries, and in my mind these are gods. Aries isn't a god. Oh, yeah. you A-R-I-E-S, not A-R-E-S. I'm talking about the Zodiac sign, but it's okay. Yeah, i know, but phonetics is weird.
01:58:49
Speaker
The last thing in this episode, we get the window by the end because it's Kip's birthday. He invited Scott. Scott doesn't show, but he's outside. He's by the window. The metaphor. oh it's so sad. We are crying. I mean, we're cheering because he got a full ride because ah Kip got a full ride, which, as we said, scott had in the book, Scott had offered to pay, but no, in this one, he got a full ride. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's loved. He's loved. He has friends. He has his friends. He has his dad who's like incredible as like ah an incredible father figure. And it just like reinforces Scott's like it juxtaposes Scott as this like person who's alone.
01:59:29
Speaker
Yeah. And he's on the outside looking in And we flash back up. to Sochi 2014 Scott's socks. We're back where we started at the start of this episode. Sochi Scott's wearing the socks, but he pulls other socks over them. I saw people arguing if this has meaning or not. So there's a couple of different things. One hockey rinks are pretty fucking cold, especially when you're down on the ice. So it's not uncommon for hockey players to wear like you when you're wearing your uniform you have a compression layer on underneath and so he's wearing like compression socks which he probably takes his like compression pants into right and then there's also hockey socks which are like footless so like he's wearing compression socks over a pair of like normal socks so i saw that as like he's hiding who he truly is by putting on the like compression socks over his own socks Like he's hiding his relationship with Kip. He's like hiding who he truly is. But also he like puts his socks on in a different way. And for a man who's like so concerned about superstition, for him to put on his socks on different feet, it means that his like, because his socks are on different feet. They're on the wrong feet. Like for him to like do that. It just shows that his like head isn't in the game and he's still thinking about Kip. So it's kind of got like a double meaning to it too. But yeah, hockey uniforms are very extensive because probably after he put on his compression layers, he's going to put on his pads. Then he's got to put the uniform on top of it. Everything smells. There is this interview with Jacob Journey, Connor, and Hudson, where Connor and Hudson compete to see who takes off the hockey uniform first. Fastest? Yeah.
02:01:17
Speaker
yeah Yeah, because so it's like usually your base layer, which is like your jock and your socks. And then it's like your compression layer over that, which is shirts, pants, pants. socks then you do all of your pads so that's like shin guards you have your chest protector that has shoulder guards you have like your arm guards you have like your hockey pants which are typically like have like some kind of compression or like padding in them as well for your like hips and ass then you have a fight strap on your hockey shorts which you connect to your jersey so they can't like pull your jersey over your head when you're fighting. And then you've got your hockey gloves, your stick, your helmet. The NLHPA, which is the National Hockey Leads Players Association, is now going to start requiring net guards for all players starting in 2026 so that they can prevent like head and neck injuries, especially with skate blades, and then your skates on top of that. so
02:02:18
Speaker
it's It's a lot I play roller hockey. It's it's a lot. I'm familiar. It's a lot to get in and out of. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the closest I've been to that is winter in Massachusetts or winter in Chicago. Winter in Chicago. Yeah, i'm like to go outside right now, I... I'm putting on 10 pairs. So walk to the train, I'm wearing tights and then pants.
02:02:35
Speaker
Clearly. Too much. Okay, so I think this this is a very... In terms of narrative, in terms of structure, we have a very traditional episode here. like Unlike the first two episodes, here we're following a very traditional narrative. Very circular. We're back in Sochi by the end. So we get this flashback and get back to them.
02:02:59
Speaker
It's a very traditional structure for romance as well. Like meet cute. We are just missing the grand. is third act breakup. Uh-huh. This is the third outbreak. And we decided to finish the the episode here without our grand gesture, grand romantic gesture that's going to fix it all. That is what is missing from this structure that we're so used to as viewers. So that is to be continued. With that, we're going to go ahead and switch over and do our fan mail for this week. So just a reminder, if you're new here, we do fan mail submissions every week. You can submit and talk about whatever you'd like. We ask that you keep them usually between two and three minutes, but they can be just you talking about your favorite parts of the story. You can have like more academic critiquing kind of things, but you also can just totally be feral on a mic for two minutes and that's totally fine. We'll respond to it. All of our submissions for fan mail can be submitted to any of our social media on X, threads, or Instagram, or you also can submit it to our email, which is srspod at protonmail.com.
02:04:13
Speaker
Okay, so this week's voice memo comes to us from Anna. and So we're going to go ahead and let her take it away.
02:04:26
Speaker
Hello beautiful and amazing hosts. I wanted to talk about Scott and Kip's relationship because I think they have some very interesting points of tension that we don't explore a lot. And I think that's a shame because they have a lot of potential for the story. However, I don't know if it's due to the constraints of the genre or if it's because we don't have enough time. We don't really dive into them.
02:04:54
Speaker
And the resolution at the end of the book doesn't really give us answers about those topics. I think the show does a beautiful job of focusing the story on the secret relationship, the coming out story, the sacrifices and the insecurities that all that that situation brings up.
02:05:15
Speaker
But I think two tension points specifically from the book are... Maybe for me more interesting, but also more long lasting as far as the relationship goes.
02:05:28
Speaker
And I want to hear your opinion. First, the mismatch between Scott being profoundly introverted. and keep very extroverted and going through the spirit of isolation when having the relationship, the secret relationship. And the other point is their socioeconomic status and how...
02:05:54
Speaker
they fail to connect as much as Scott wants to on the fact that Scott knows what it feels like to be of a working class background and now he has a lot of money and keep only seeing him as rich I find that really really interesting and I don't think we get enough of a resolution of those two issues so I want to know what you guys think and and put those two topics on the table thank you
02:06:28
Speaker
I think these are some great points. I agree with a lot of what Ana is saying. Like, I i see the vision. I understand. I feel like there there could have been more done in the show to portray some of these disparities and to show that not everything is hunky-dory. But yeah, i have I have a lot of thoughts on this. What are y'all's initial thoughts? I guess my initial thought is, I don't know if I necessarily, I can see like the introvert extrovert like conversation like that dichotomy between Scott and Kip but I think of I think of that issue as more of like who's in the closet and who's out of closet how out of the closet and how that influences like them being introverted or extroverted Like, I don't think it necessarily is for me at least, like, I don't necessarily be looking at this and saying, like, oh, Kip is extroverted and Scott's introverted. i think of it more of as, like, Kip is out of the closet and does have a lot of friends. And while Scott might also be introverted... he is like in the closet. So that is like another, i don't know. Does that make sense? Like that dichotomy is different to me. Like, I think it's more of a pressing issue that he's in the closet and Kip is out of the closet on their relationship rather than if they're introverted or extroverted. Yeah.
02:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think Ana included some some extra notes with her voice memo. She says that about like the other ones have like their social needs met in a way. So Scott has his all his social needs met by having his job and he goes home to Kip, but Kip has other social needs outside of Scott and by ah the nature of hiding their relationship kind of hinders his social. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I do agree that there is something of extrovert, introvert, or at least a lack of communication of your, like every one of them social battery when they're talking about how they want to do things. Because I do feel like Scott is very content with just going home, you know, and and and he seems to not be like super into social events.
02:08:29
Speaker
while Kip is. And we know from the book that Kip is like very into going to the club, going to the bar, having friends. In the book, his family is more than his father's, so he's also like from a very lived in household, you know? There's like yeah always family time. And I think Scott has gotten used to being alone in a way that he feels comfortable with silence and loneliness. And the only thing that he was missing was a partner. So without Kip vocalizing that, I think Anna is pointing out to that as well, Kip doesn't vocalize his needs at all.
02:09:09
Speaker
during um and and especially during the episode. I think in the book he does a better job at vocalizing ah the second half of the book, but still he's not he's not very communicative about him feeling lonely and estranged from his life support network because he has to keep the this big secret. And so Scott has only the possibility to like evaluate the situation through his own needs and eyes. And I think this is this is one of the things when you're U-Haul is that you're basically... You're basing almost everything on what internally works, you know, like the chemistry, the sex, the emotional intimacy, the way you two like work together. But you are not necessarily taking into account the external context of both people's lives until you're already in the situation where it becomes part of your daily life as well. So I do think that it would seem that Scott would be very content and okay with a very silent and isolated life. While Kip is definitely not because of how, like, he he is clearly very friendly with Shane. He's friendly with his teammates, but he is very, like, he gives lone wolf...
02:10:37
Speaker
Vibes to me. And i I kind of like, I love having friends and I love my friends and I don't base my whole social life on my partner. But I am someone that because I work with, I work in education. So by the end of the week, sometimes I don't want to see anyone because I see so much people at my job. And and I talk so much. Uh-huh. And Scott's work life is very sociable. He has to give interviews. he has He's the captain of a team. He has like to be interacting with human beings all the time. So I do get why Anna is pointing this out. I kind of agree.
02:11:15
Speaker
Although i I always think that in this dichotomy of extrovert-introvert, you will always find like gray areas that don't fit into the description. Yeah, I guess I just don't really see Scott as an introvert. Like, I think I relate a lot to Scott where, like, I have, like, my very social tendencies and then I have, like, my, I just want to sit in my apartment and not talk to anyone and enjoy my rent. But, like, I don't think in any of the scenarios that we see Scott in, he is, like, acting very introverted. Even in, like, if we go back to like, episode one, like, he seeks Shane out to ask him to do shots with a bunch of the older vets. Yeah. he is like clearly okay in those scenarios and so this is where I think like I think Scott is alone but I don't think he's lonely does that make sense yeah yeah unfortunately and you know like his parents died when he was very young and so I think he has like a lot of abandonment issues i often kind of describe myself like this just because like I am alone does not mean I'm lonely like just because I like to like go out and do stuff by myself doesn't mean I'm okay Because I feel like, you know, Scott like goes out and he like goes to the smoothie shop um and like, I just, I don't know, maybe I don't see like, it which is like, you know, potentially a an an interaction that he has to have, you know, so I don't really see him as being that introverted personally. I think he's comfortable in his solitude and he can be social but not about his like sex life. But he is known to be like such a private dude so he'll hang out with the bros but he's not telling them his like private whatever or he's not expressing like this and that about himself. Whereas I think Kip is a bit different that way, which is why great that you brought up loneliness. ah Kip gets so depressed and he's so lonely. feel like it's shown very little in the show. I think they could have thrown it in in a tad more of him just like sulking around the apartment alone or something. Like he lies to his friends and family and and that is there.
02:13:11
Speaker
But I feel like his internal struggle could have been more because I feel like that is a big clashing point for them because then as we get the show where they try to go out together, it's a shit show. and I think that's that's a little related where Scott wants to like be social in public, but not that side of himself. Yeah. And I think this is, I mean, this is something that I kind of, going to touch on in our next episode talking about Rose, but like and NHL players kind of have the opportunity to be more private citizens than like any other major league sport, especially in the United States, especially in the U S because we just like hockey is not one of our main sports. And so like, like there are plenty of times where like people have like gone out and interacted with like and NHL players and not known who they were. The average American cannot like pick out an NHL player in a lineup. Now, this is really different in Canada where they are like in major, you know, like like on billboards and in commercials and a lot more than they are in the US. But like like I was just watching this like dumb local insurance commercial the other day while I was watching a Blackhawks game. And a friend was over and they were like, who are these people in this commercial? And I was like, oh, that's like a former hockey player. Like one of them is a former NHL hockey player. He was on the Blackhawks last year. And they were like, I would have never known that. And I was like, well, I mean, they're in hockey uniforms, so I don't know why. but Like, I think there is like a like...
02:14:47
Speaker
Like an a modicum of privacy that like and NHL players get that like and NBA players, NFL players, Major League Baseball players don't in the United States, especially. So that's like, I guess, my also kind of two cents looking at this as well. Yeah, and it does feel that for Scott, this is a big deal. But if you put it in perspective, and when we meet Rose, for example, it becomes a big deal. Like, we know that Hayden is not making the tabloids about his, like, fourth, fifth child. But Shane is, as soon as Rose Landry is in his life, it's definitely a different type of shh.
02:15:26
Speaker
of a fame and I think the fame that um these characters have is very attached to a niche community that is so is unfortunately very homophobic in its culture. right So I think that is what where the fear comes from but I agree with you that it's not like he's gonna... It's not the same where when like Ilya and Shane are in Ottawa, you know?
02:15:51
Speaker
or in or in or in montreal when like right especially with a city like new york that is so big and so full of people that are famous yes right no exactly like it's really i don't think the average american could tell you who conor mcdavid is like because and that's like the biggest hockey player in the world right now like he's the best hockey player in the world Like you two are looking at me like I'm fucking crazy. Like you guys, I'm going to send you a picture of Connor McDavid and you're going be like, this is that guy? like We cannot use me as ah an example because I'm i'm Colombian. Hockey means nothing to me. so
02:16:31
Speaker
No, and that's so real. That's so real. I can tell, it i can I can recognize soccer players, but I would never recognize hockey players by it. Oh yeah, I see the picture. Also, he's a white man.
02:16:43
Speaker
They all look good. Once again, our white man blindness strikes again. And what do we think about the class social class and im dynamic and the money? That we get...
02:16:56
Speaker
so much more in the book than we do in the show. And I understand this was like one episode, okay? Like there's only so much that it can. But Anna is pointing out a lot of interesting points here. And in the notes that she shared, she is also talking about the book. And she says that in the book, sometimes it's a focal point and sometimes we forget, right? It's it's not it's not there as much. Like we see it with the tips,
02:17:22
Speaker
in in the in the show. We see with the tips. We see it when Kip first goes to Scott's apartment. We see it with the fact that their first date is after Scott... Kip is catering at an event where Scott is a guest, right?
02:17:39
Speaker
Like, we get all that, but we don't get the way that affects Kip. Like, Kip is spiraling in the book. Kip is really thinking that he's less than Scott because of the money thing. And something that Anna also points out is that ah Scott doesn't come from money. He became a a millionaire because of a scholarship that, like, launched him into this industry.
02:18:06
Speaker
but he didn't come from money. So he knows what it means to like have to survive on your monthly paycheck, having to experience like food insecurity and all of that. And there's a tension because Kip is not seeing that. Kip is only seeing the present of Scott's life. And we do get an exploration of that dynamic in the book that was not in the series, but that is... an issue in how they communicate. communicate Like, it explains so much about why Kip is not vocalizing his needs. Because he doesn't feel he deserves it. We don't get that in the show.
02:18:45
Speaker
So he just looks like this very smitten boy who is... And I say boy, like, because that is, like, at at some point it's even infantilizing the way he's, like, just waiting at home, you know, for for Scott to come home. And he's not, like... He's playing by Scott's rules and Scott is not aware of that because Kip is never saying it. But the show makes you think that this is because he's so in love that he will take anything. While in the book, it's more of an inferiority complex.
02:19:18
Speaker
due to class dynamics yeah I mean money is always always a like huge topic in romance novels like the amount of like billionaire romance is that are out there even now is crazy i am you know like and I think they always have this kind of moment of tension where it is like oh, like, I'm poor and the person I'm dating is rich and they want to pay for things, but I'm a self-made person and I don't want to take their money. Like, come on, babes. Let's be so, so for real right now. If a man was like, I will give you all the money to pay off your student debt today, i would be like, fucking do it. ah I'll take it. No, no questions asked. like You know what that's called? That's cool.
02:20:10
Speaker
You know, like, that is social justice. You are... Taking a white man's money? it like exact repartision delar riquea Exactly. It's like this lie that rich people have tried to sell us for the longest time, which is money doesn't buy happiness. When clearly it does.
02:20:30
Speaker
Clearly it does. Financial stability is happiness. Like, especially when you are living paycheck to paycheck, when you are working three or four jobs. Like, it clearly does buy happiness. And so, like, this whole, like, I hate this, like, little fake-ass thing that all these romance novels are going through where they're like, no, I have to be, like, mad that my billionaire boyfriend is trying to pay for things. Like, bitch, shut up.
02:20:55
Speaker
Shut up! Like take the money and run like I don't know what to tell you like or like people are like oh i you know like and romance novels will be like oh I don't want to be like greedy or anything. You are dating a billionaire. You're dating a billionaire. Listen I Yes, Kip should take that money.
02:21:17
Speaker
keep like it is the The economic system that we have in place, it's so unfair that if someone is suffering to pay and not asking absolutely a single thing in exchange, because Scott is not giving that money you know as a way to keep Kip in his life. He's just like, right I shouldn't have this amount of money while you're struggling, which makes total sense to me. right yeah and and And we're not saying that rich people don't have depression or anxiety. We're just saying that um it sucks when you have those things. And at the same time you're working like and also poverty causes depression and anxiety and you don't have access to the things that help you with it. Like, you don't you don't have time for leisure necessarily. You don't have a stable home sometimes to go back to that is a safe place. safe place You don't get to even, like, if you are so lucky to have access to therapy, you don't get to pick who your therapy is right you don't you don't get to cast therapist, therapists to see what works. You don't get to sometimes buy the medication that you need in order to sleep. So, yeah.
02:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm just not going to sit here and feel bad for millionaires, like, or millionaires. Like, I'm really just not going to, like, you have the money to make your life exponentially better. And you, like, trying to cosplay as poor or cosplay as, like, you don't have the, like, means to get yourself out of anxiety and depression. Like, bitch, go to a doctor and get a Xanax. Like, i I just, like, i am I guess I'm so, like, anti-billionaire, anti-money. We're gonna explore this further. I'm talking about like really millionaires that are like, they have like, they're closer to billionaires, you know, or like. Okay, because i was gonna say like, we're gonna talk about this when Ilya Rosanoff, who is loaded as fuck, is depressed as fuck.
02:23:16
Speaker
Okay, and yes, no, no, no. Like, I get that. No, I get that. i get But this is where I'm also, like, I, like, I think this is why i struggle sometimes to read romance novels because, like, it's like, oh, yes, rich people, like, have like depression or anxiety or whatever too but I'm like but you have the means to like get rid of it like you not to get rid of it but like treat yourself you know like go do treatment and like or like take time off work to heal yourself yeah definitely and that's why the privilege is there The privilege is there. I can understand that depending on depending on who you like, why you have that amount of money. Like if that money is not because of your work, but because of who your parents are or who your partner is, that it can come with strings attached. So if your family doesn't believe in therapy, you're kind of fucked.
02:24:12
Speaker
But you're definitely having, like, there's there's always going to be gray areas, but I agree with you, especially when we're talking about people like deaf buses and stuff, like, I'm not going to cry for you, sorry. I'm not going to cry.
02:24:27
Speaker
will never. When are those all-gender restrooms opening, someone put those people in a grave so I could go piss on it, like... I also think that Scott, being a but a philanthropist professionally, like having his whole like foundation or scholarship or whatever and giving back, I think that's great for his his like character and like like him being like a good person and whatever because that's how he succeeded. But I also think that ki that made Kip feel a bit like a charity case yeah a little bit, which is where some of that struggle came from, which is where I understand like he's a bit people are a bit too proud. like There are people in my family where they're a bit too proud to accept help or to accept things like that.
02:25:01
Speaker
and And so it gets harder because Scott does it because out of the goodness of his heart and he wants to help people. But Kip was like, I'm going to work for it myself. And it's it's like a whole thing. But then also we've talked before about like hockey players who like want to give back to their parents because hockey gear is so expensive. So like buying them like houses or cars or like trying to give that back. i think I think there is more to it. But also like, boy, pay off those debts. That is a lifelong debt. like a Literally a lifelong debt.
02:25:27
Speaker
Like, and I think one of the reasons why they didn't include it in the show is because we would all be like, uh, yeah, get your stupid rich boyfriend to pay off your student loans. Like, we would not, like, I think more people would be yelling about Kip not taking Scott's money than, like, paying attention to their story at all, you know, like. Yeah, I think, i think our generation hasn't bought into this idea that, uh, Effort equals money. So we yeah have been like less vulnerable into buying the idea of letting someone else pay for my student loans is shameful because we know that no matter how many jobs someone works, they can still be in like in poverty the rest of their lives because of how this fucking system works.
02:26:15
Speaker
Right, and, like, i have I have an ex-boyfriend that I hang out with, and he maybe is wealthy. And he, like, I'm like, you will be paying for all of this. Like, we can hang out, but you will pay for all of it because I don't have money like you. And if you want to do the stuff that you do, which is, like, the other thing is, like...
02:26:33
Speaker
How are you going to expect Kip to pay for things if Scott is used to a certain lifestyle that provides a certain amount of discretion or caters to a certain amount of needs? How are you going to expect Kip to pay for any of that?
02:26:47
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Like the, them going to like nicer restaurants for the the secrecy of hiding in like a little booth or whatever, a little bit more privacy, especially once they become like, like famous and are more known and like getting recognized everywhere. They can't just go to their average, you know, coffee shop without getting bombarded all the time. They they do need to have that or like, when they say they're going to call a car service or whatever, if they don't take a taxi or the subway. Like, has Scott Hunter ever taken the subway in New York? Has he had to when he can have a personal chauffeur in an instant? Like, these are different things where it's like, like, imagine, I'm just trying to imagine Scott Hunter asking Kip to, like like, split an Uber with him, which would never happen. But could you, like, imagine something like that? I don't think that would happen just because i don't know that it, there's just in such different tax brackets. Yeah, and I think this is why, like, I think, like, I had to suspend a lot of belief. Like, I had to suspend a lot of my, like, understanding for this episode. Because even when they, like, go to the art gallery, and Scott's like, oh, I don't want to get seen. It's like, Scott, the reality is that art gallery probably does not have any idea who you are. Like...
02:27:51
Speaker
it's like It's probably the sunglasses and the cap that is giving away. would be more suspicious about that than just like you walking into an art gallery. So yeah, i think this is I think this is a really good conversation that I'm sure we will continue to keep having kind of as this series goes on. So thank you so much, Anna, for your voice memo. We really appreciate it. And again, if you'd like to send us one, you're more than welcome to. We would love to hear from Thanks.
02:28:18
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of since rookie season podcast. Follow us online on Instagram at since rookie season podcast on Twitter at SRS pod and threads at sincei since rookie season podcast. rate Rate us and like us, follow us on your pod catchers and tune in next week for when we are in fact crying in the club.
02:28:40
Speaker
So then actually, when we are in fact crying in the club. And thank God. We'll be we'll be crying in the club in the recording. Amanda and I will be crying in the club in person. I will be probably be crying tomorrow because the way I'm coming from very far away and with this weather, stay tuned for my...
02:29:05
Speaker
This rookie season is created by Lauren, Lau, and Amanda. The cover art is by Lauren and Lau, and Amanda is our editor. Thanks for listening!