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Episode 83 - 10 Reasons We're Jealous of Neurotypicals (a bit)
53 Plays3 months ago
Join your hosts, Paul & Martin, as they navigate the chaotic, hilarious, and oh-so-relatable world of ADHD. In this episode, they attempt (and almost fail) to discuss 10 Reasons We’re Jealous of About Neurotypicals—but technical glitches, forgotten scripts, and a deep dive into emotional stability (or lack thereof) take center stage instead.
🔹 Highlights:
- "We lost 30 minutes of pure podcast gold—sorry, world!"
- Paul’s struggle with remembering 700+ Italian names (brain says NO)
- Why neurotypicals get to be "understood by default" (and we don’t)
- The eternal battle: dopamine vs. peace (can we have both?)
🚜 Hop on the ADHDville tractor (metaphorically) and join the chaos. Whether you’re here for the laughs, the rants, or the occasional deep thought, you’re in good company.
🔔 Subscribe now for fresh episodes every Tuesday!
💬 Comment below—what’s your ADHD jealousy list?
Theme music was written by Freddie Philips and played by Martin West. All other music by Martin West. Please remember: This is an entertainment podcast about ADHD and does not substitute for individualized advice from qualified health professionals.
This is an entertainment podcast and does not substitute for individualized specialist advice.
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Transcript
Technical Difficulties and Restart
00:00:00
Speaker
gez and We're back in the room, Paul. We're back in the room. Oh, no, it says error. Oh, Jesus Christ.
00:00:11
Speaker
There's something that says, fail to start recording. the following participants may be experiencing connection problems.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello? Hello?
00:00:27
Speaker
and Hello? Oh, it's recording. Back in the room. we're back We are back in the room, Martin. We are back in the room. We're back in the room.
00:00:37
Speaker
We're having some technical errors, peeps. You know, so sorry to our public, but let's try it. Let's give it a go. Let's give it a freaking go. Right. So we're off. Okay.
Envy of Neurotypicals: Ease of Life
00:00:50
Speaker
So ah what am I saying? Yeah. So today we're going to talk about 10 things. that we're just a little bit jealous of when it comes to neurotypicals. not not because Or envious.
00:01:05
Speaker
No, right. and And it's not because we think that we're that they're better or that we're better. It's just that they are more standard issue.
00:01:18
Speaker
standard issue um the the world bill around then so they So they get to do things easily.
00:01:29
Speaker
And on occasions, like, even if it's just for one freaking day, could we just not be like them? And just, you know, things could be a little bit easier. yeah
00:01:43
Speaker
Right. A little bit. Just little bit. can't help but think. Teeny, weeny bit easier.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. So, let's go to a place where the distractions and landmarks and the detours are the main roads. Welcome to ADHDville! Yeah, let's go there. Let's go there.
00:02:02
Speaker
With the music. Yes. Talking about jealousy. Talking about envy. The music is happening. Envy, jealousy.
00:02:15
Speaker
Jealousy, envy. I can't hear the... I can't hear any music. so where did Where did the intro go? Intro music go? It's gone. Which is weird.
00:02:28
Speaker
I don't know, mate. I don't know, mate. Let's just pretend that I overdubbed it in. Right. We're not slaves to technology. We just, we can improvise.
00:02:40
Speaker
wi Hello, I'm Paul Thompson. I was diagnosed. And I was diagnosed. and i was diagnosed And I was diagnosed. that that That'll do. I was diagnosed. Well done.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah. I'm really proud of that. I was diagnosed with the ADHD in 2013. and practically a couple of years ago okay
00:03:05
Speaker
i ah i'm martin we i was diagnosed with a aty yeah in twenty thirteen a lifetime ago. And we start off as always here the town hall, in the mayor's, in the inner pub. No, we don't start off in the town hall. We are starting off in the in the mayor's no not even the mayor's where are we but it's like it's like such a chaos it's chaos thompson it's because we are starting off as we as we do well just let's put this in a little bit of context we started this podcast about half an hour ago
00:03:47
Speaker
And then technology went against us. Technology. technology yeah And we had to abandon the whole freaking episode. And we had to start all over again.
00:03:58
Speaker
What the fuck? Yeah. catue kickca superro
00:04:04
Speaker
It's okay. And this is us restarting and trying to find the energy, get the energy back. um pretending that we haven't already done this already the energy.
00:04:18
Speaker
This is us, like, being agile. I have the energy. It's just it's just my my brain has said, I've already yeah said all this. i can i can I can just forget all of that, right? I can just dump it in the waste paper basket.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, you've already ticked those boxes. yeah Right. Have you ever done this thing, Paul, where you're cooking something from from from a packet and it has instructions on the packet, right, and you and you get the thing out and you shove the box into the trash can, right?
00:04:54
Speaker
And then you go, oh, hang on a second. Right. And then you have to rummage around the trash can to read what the cooking instructions are. right Fish back.
00:05:06
Speaker
that's that's what mo yeah right That's what my brain is currently doing. It's just through right okay all all of all of the first episode, all of the first 15 minutes into the trash, and now I'm having to um to like get into the trash. and Right.
00:05:27
Speaker
Right. And also, by the way, i'll ah just want to say to our wonderful public, our wonderful listeners, the half an hour that we lost was pure fucking podcast gold that the world is never going to hear.
00:05:46
Speaker
It was buffed to a shining How do you feel about that? Right. Comments.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, write in the comments. Please send us some comments about that podcast called that you're never fucking going to hear ever again. Right. get too we um We're up to, we just need to decide where we're going, Martin, to discuss it.
Virtual Coffee Shop and Energy Focus
00:06:13
Speaker
Which um I would suggest we go to the coffee shop at this point.
00:06:19
Speaker
All right. thank Thank you, Paul. I'm glad someone is vaguing. So we start tractor. The tractor sounds.
00:06:30
Speaker
The tractor. Let's start the tractor. Let's go to the coffee place. And hopefully, yes just's go there the tractor starts.
00:06:43
Speaker
Oh, there go. You know what? That's good. Let's pretend...
00:06:51
Speaker
Let's pretend. What? Can you hear the... How can Totally. I'm going to have to overdub that afterwards.
00:07:05
Speaker
So ah what what are you going to have, Martin? What kind of coffee are you going to have? Anyway...
00:07:14
Speaker
god You know what, mate? I think last time i i went with an iced matchup. I think I'm going to have to have something a lot stronger. I'm going to have to have what we call a red eye. Okay.
00:07:32
Speaker
All right.
00:07:34
Speaker
I'm going to go for a Bloody Mary, which is totally off menu. It's a coffee shop. But I do happen to know that they do happen to keep some cheeky, you know, quantities of if you if special clients. If they roll in like me and they want a Bloody Mary, they do them.
00:07:53
Speaker
ah got to have that. I know the manager. Yes. Exactly. it's Exactly. Cool. So let's get on, I suppose, at this point to the theme. Let's get on on to our 10 things though that we're slightly jealous about.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yes. Right. Slash envious. So, yeah, what this isn't is a new neurotypicals versus ADHD thing. Right.
00:08:23
Speaker
This isn't a sort of a brain war. this is This is just like 10 things we're a little bit jealous of because the world works for them and not for us.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yes. There's enough, God knows, there's enough polarization in the world. And this we are not. People do not come to ADHD or podcasts for polarization.
00:08:49
Speaker
It's not what we're about. So let's start with you, Martin. What's your what's number one on your list? Number one, number one yeah is consistent energy and focus.
00:09:05
Speaker
Without burnout or getting bored. And I'm jealous because neurotypicals seem to right just like decide to turn their attention to something.
00:09:19
Speaker
See, that's already resonating for the second time. And then they do it. They go, oh, you know what? I'm going to fill out some paperwork. Yes. and then Do it. And then I'm going to go mow the lawn.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then I'm going go cook breakfast. I don't know. Whatever it is, right? but They're like and like, you know what? I can prioritize stuff. I can like yeah just do it. i not can do it Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
And yeah that they might have off days, right, where they're tired because they've been drinking in the night before or something. Yeah. No problems with transition. Right. But they can somehow just manage to kind of like write keep going at a steady pace. Right. got a hangover. Yeah.
00:10:04
Speaker
Whereas we are like either all like we're either on fire and we're like, we're like running a hundred miles hour and doing stuff. Yes. Or, Or we're just kind of flatlining and we're like, no, I can't do this thing.
00:10:20
Speaker
um On it. But they are so consistent. consistent like Yes. You know. Yeah. I wish I could just have that sometimes. You know what I mean?
00:10:35
Speaker
If I could just kind of hit the consistent button for like a day. I'm not polarizing. Yeah, totally. No. Yeah, yeah. No, totally.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. On the upside, the twist, if you like. That sounds good. That's good. Is that. Okay. Is that. ah My. the my the The first one on my list, Martin. Thank you for asking. Hang on. hang on yeah ed Ed is caught in my in my in my headphone lead.
00:11:05
Speaker
He's got his legs wrapped in it. Hang on. Eddie.
00:11:12
Speaker
I need my headphones back. There we go. Chaos episode. Chaos episode. okay Is he garroted? Yeah, yeah. So I was just going to finish up and say... is Was Eddie... No. it is Is Eddie garotting your headphone cable? No, he just got his little back leg caught in it.
00:11:34
Speaker
um ah So I was just going to say that the upside, if you like, a our of of our of our not having consistent energy and focus is that when we are on...
00:11:46
Speaker
when we have that energy and we do have that, or that focus, we are like, you know, yeah we is we can learn stuff really quick. We can be, we can master all kinds of different stuff.
00:12:01
Speaker
Um, you know yeah So it has its advantages. But sometimes would just like a little bit of consistency. Totally. All right.
00:12:11
Speaker
So I'm only guessing, but I'm guessing that neuro normal people are looking at us at certain points i think and thinking, oh, God, I wish i was as spontaneous
Memory and Emotional Stability Envy
00:12:21
Speaker
as that guy, Mr. West over there.
00:12:25
Speaker
There's upsides and downsides. Anyway, on my list, I've got something quite specific. The first one on my list. remember Remembering people's names in Italian.
00:12:37
Speaker
Italian. All right. Okay. So I didn't know this yeah until about 18 months ago. But my brain has my brain has a, yeah how can I put it?
00:12:52
Speaker
It has like a, it maxes out be ah beyond 30 names that I need to remember. So I started after 35 years as being a ah creative director, I started, i changed, um,
00:13:09
Speaker
profession and I became a teacher in high school. And all of a sudden I need to remember somewhere well in the last 18 months, somewhere between 700 and 900 different names in Italian.
00:13:24
Speaker
That's crazy. Turns out I can't do that. Turns out my brain is saying absolutely fucking not Thompson. Are you off your rocker? No.
00:13:38
Speaker
You can't do it. And literally I've realized 18 months on my brain is saying, no, I can't do it. Not only that, it's not like I can't remember any of those names.
00:13:54
Speaker
I can't remember any names beyond this point. It's all become a big mess, a big mush, a big blur of names.
00:14:05
Speaker
And I can't remember anyone's names anymore. So I envy, and I'm slightly jealous slash envy, of people that can remember names. Because it is a problem, actually.
00:14:16
Speaker
Especially it Italian names because they're longer. Stefano, the Vici, the Barley, the Barley. um And they all end with they all end with a vowel.
00:14:30
Speaker
Yes. Well, I've got, I did some bit of research on it. There is a thing because I've, as an English speaker, everything that's like Italian names often contain sounds, syllable structures, or letter combinations that are not familiar to an English brain.
00:14:50
Speaker
Right. So even if they were English names, I would probably be having a bit of a struggle. But in Italian, with these syllable and, you know, sound combinations, my brain goes, no no, you can't do it.
00:15:08
Speaker
Forget about it. which i Which is a... It has become a problem, actually. Forget about it. Especially when it comes to a point where have to give kids at school um a grade for their conversation English.
00:15:22
Speaker
And I can't remember any of them. any of them Right. Forget about it. No. Right. I completely forgot their names. No.
00:15:35
Speaker
yankki pisonari
00:15:38
Speaker
Okay, so that's my thing. Right, yeah. and What i basically said was I can't even dream of remembering their names. I just thought actually sort the Greek names were even longer.
00:15:52
Speaker
So what's second on your list, Mr West? So this will be number three, obviously, as we're going down the top ten, um not in in in any any order. But he's...
00:16:04
Speaker
I think this is one where you and I overlap. So my one is is his memory that shows up on time.
00:16:16
Speaker
Like, I need, like, when I need something, like, where are my keys? um Yeah, even, like, what is that person's name?
00:16:26
Speaker
Or what is that, know, like, I suddenly need to remember something, like an appointment, what time it was, like, That part of my brain just decides to shut down.
00:16:39
Speaker
Just goes, no, no. So, you know, like a it would be good if I could just remember things when I need to remember them.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, that would. There's walkies. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it is very yeah difficult um to to yeah find an upside to that.
00:17:07
Speaker
Yeah. No, I get that. Totally. Yeah. like And I mean, that's it's interesting because its like the it seems like it seems like the most basic of things, doesn't it? Oh, I made the chair.
00:17:20
Speaker
Okay. Number four is managing documentation. Yeah. Managing documentation. I literally, this literally happened to me today. Okay.
00:17:33
Speaker
I had to go and find a document and um it was, there it was time precious. It was time precious. I had to find it within a certain slot.
00:17:45
Speaker
Okay. Not a physical slot. I mean, a time slot, Martin, get your mind out of the gutter. Okay. And, and I had to find it and I got, uh,
00:17:56
Speaker
so anxious about it. And I said to my girlfriend, because my girlfriend was all involved in this. And she said, i said, well, I said to her, look, I know you can, you're looking at me and I'm getting anxious about it.
00:18:12
Speaker
I know I'm not pretending there's any logic to my anxiety about this freaking document. There's no logic. I'm not pretending it. I'm not pretending that it needs to, it needs to some kind, it needs to in some way coincide with your logic.
00:18:31
Speaker
I'm saying it just makes me very anxious. I remember I said to my ah accountant years before I had my ADHD diagnosis.
00:18:45
Speaker
Okay. I said, I think I've got some kind of um phobia. with documentation.
00:18:56
Speaker
As it turns out, ah it is a kind of, it feels to me, the best way I've ever found to explain it to my girlfriend is that it feels like a phobia and it does make me very anxious to kind of like, oh, i need to find a certain document in a certain time frame um And it is time precious because if I don't find it in time, is going to
00:19:28
Speaker
have a it's going to have repercussions, financial repercussions. ka And I became, at least it's happened today, i became really nervous and angry and frustrated.
00:19:42
Speaker
And it's it's hard to explain. Yeah. And so my envy is that I wish I didn't have to have that kind of yeah that's that sense of phobia. So is that like of shit finding things within a certain time frame? Does that resonate for you? Did you have that kind of level of anxiety? with Yes, all the time.
00:20:04
Speaker
Oh, ay oh good Lord, he's offline now. Where has he gone? Oh, it's like a disaster episode. It's a shame because I think with there's some podcast gold in in there.
00:20:17
Speaker
There is. No, no, no. i think I think it's good. I think I like the energy. I like i like the the chaos energy of it. Yes. Yeah. So I think we're at five.
00:20:29
Speaker
Right. So I'm going to crack on and say like number five, count of, is emotional stability, like neurotypical people aren't quite as, so that they're therere there a little bit more, you know less up and down, right?
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like if they get an if they get annoyed, they are they are and annoyed for a bit, right? And then they kind of get over it and kind of carry on.
00:21:03
Speaker
whereas Whereas we will be, you know, like if if someone' if something bad happens, that that can like flatten us out. Like we'll just be dead. We'll just be either sort of like, you know, have ah have a complete meltdown you or um you know, like we'll just kind of emotionally just burn out and overthink and...
00:21:32
Speaker
yeah Well, I'm going to challenge you on that one, Martin. I think... say One thing about being neurodiverse is that we're ultra sensitive to the ups and downs of our um sensitivities.
00:21:58
Speaker
okay right And there are many people, I've known many, many neurotypicals that they have no consciousness of their ups and downs.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what I mean. Yeah. And so, okay, okay. So it's it's like I always said before I got diagnosed with ADHD, my sensitivity was my best friend and my worst enemy at the same time.
00:22:27
Speaker
Right. Okay. Yes. You know what mean? Yes. Yeah. It'd be like somewhere. It doesn't have to be your best friend or your worst enemy. It could be just like um an associate, someone that, you know.
00:22:44
Speaker
A co-worker. A co-worker. I mean, what the how banal can you get? Co-worker.
Stability vs. Freedom
00:22:54
Speaker
Once in a while, you know ah would like that.
00:22:57
Speaker
A co-worker. yeah That's brilliant. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Love that. number six is yours. Oh, this is a big one.
00:23:09
Speaker
A sense of place. A sense of place. This is ah b a biggie. All right. Okay. So since this sits place, this is like I've got in brackets restlessness.
00:23:24
Speaker
Okay. four Five S's in one word. Well done. Restlessness. Five S's in one word. Let's bring on.
00:23:35
Speaker
Okay. Anyway, so I worked out... Since I since i've moved to Italy, I've moved house 12 times in 20 years. That's crazy. ah I've moved house 12 times in 20 years.
00:23:52
Speaker
Since I was 21 and I left home, i counted this evening. i've left I've moved house, I think, twenty maybe 21 times.
00:24:05
Speaker
That's crazy. Here's where the envy comes in. i see people that have stayed in the same freaking house, in the same freaking village, in the same freaking country, in the same freaking continent.
00:24:21
Speaker
um for the last 35, 36 years. think, oh, God, that sounds good.
00:24:31
Speaker
You know? Yeah. No. Yeah. And at the same time, there's this, you know, best friend, worst enemy thing we were talking about before. I've got friends that call me, you know,
00:24:45
Speaker
um good friends that call me, you know, we maybe haven't heard of you from each other for like a year or two. And they call me or they send me a message. They say, where are you, Paul?
00:24:57
Speaker
And they, I know that some of them actually say that they envy me. Oh, right. For moving around. for like if this freedom I have, you know, it's like, where the fuck are you, Paul? with this eda You know, 2025.
00:25:14
Speaker
Oh, I'm here. oh okay. And they kind of envy that freedom that I have. But at the same time, I envy them. Like, oh, some people that have lived in the same village all of their lives. That's stability. Yeah.
00:25:31
Speaker
Right. i I kind of, oh, God, that's got to be good, isn't it? Yeah. No, I do tend to like to stay in one place. So so that's where i I get to challenge you, Mr. T, because because I can say, right, well, if you're autistic, say, then the idea of you sort of moving house, right,
00:25:57
Speaker
ah Even for some ADHD people, vi i the idea of kind of giving up your stable place where you know all the root routines and the habits you know where everything is and you know how to get to the the store. and you know So your entire system of how you run your life works in this house. And the idea of moving house to go somewhere else Yeah.
00:26:24
Speaker
Is too much. So you'd like try and cling on to staying in one place.
00:26:34
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I really, I've always really loved the idea of going to and and into a new reality and challenge myself into a new reality. ah ah For instance, I've even, mean, I talked before about moving, how many times I've moved since um I left home when I was 21. Yeah.
00:26:55
Speaker
But even since I've been in Italy, I've moved 12 times in the 20 years I've been in Italy. i mean, that's insane.
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah. No, there is something fun about about that. Yeah. But I've seen more of Italy than 99% of Italians have seen.
00:27:17
Speaker
Right. I've been to Palermo, I've been to Turin, I've been to Milan, I've been here and there, and I've seen so much of Italy. And there's a sudden richness survive that I've experienced in that.
00:27:33
Speaker
That's all good and that's great, and I wouldn't change it for the world. But I am fucking exhausted. You know? It's exhausting. Yeah.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, there is something I really like about, and it comes, and it it really comes to home when, when I'm sort of growing things like I can, I can grow seeds and I can put them in the ground and I know that I will be there.
00:28:01
Speaker
Okay. Next year. Yes. You know, yeah i can I can plant. so i So I've started some strawberry seeds this year the that won't come up till next year. And then they'll kind of like be good for another two years of so or so.
00:28:18
Speaker
And I know um exactly where I'm going to be. hmm. So I can kind of, I can, I like that stability. I can plan ahead because I'm in one place.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's that's very nice. It's nice. i ah of this was i'm going back 10 years now i was at the cinema and i watched um at the cinema there's a documentary about nick cave who is not australian those who don't know him australian um is part of ah in a group called um nick cave in the and the um bad seeds okay ah Australian ah musician lives in Brighton, okay, as do most of his Australian band members, okay.
00:29:07
Speaker
At a certain point during this documentary, I think it's called 20,000 Hours. It's documentary that just basically... shadow his life for 20,000 hours goes to see his mate in Dover in Kent.
00:29:23
Speaker
Okay. And his mate lives in the middle of nowhere in a little ramshackled bungalow. Okay. And so there, there is, and he'd like goes to visit his mate in his ramshackled cottage in Dover.
00:29:39
Speaker
And me at the cinema, I start to cry. Oh, blimey. For no particular reason other than ah but i was shocked. It's like, oh, what am I crying about?
00:29:53
Speaker
and My eyes are broken. My eyes are broken. No, they weren't, actually. They were actually quite what literally fixed. and they I realized that I craved that, you know,
00:30:08
Speaker
That life that he was having in my home country, middle of nowhere, but slightly bit of a hermit life, this kind of very kind of um this way of living, way of being that I crave to have, you know? Mm-hmm.
00:30:28
Speaker
And I'm totally unexpected out of nowhere. I was, I was crying like, holy crap. I had no idea why I was crying. Yeah. But yeah, it comes back to this, this like feeling having at some point in life, I want to feel rooted.
00:30:46
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I haven't had so far. Nice. All right. nice Nice. um So where are we up to now? um I think we're up to five.
00:30:59
Speaker
Oh, no, no. We're on one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. So so number seven. Yes. Number seven. All right.
00:31:11
Speaker
I've got...
00:31:13
Speaker
Being able to dart something when oh yes start something something. You know, just starting something.
00:31:24
Speaker
yeah When you want to start something, it just seems like such a simple, simple idea, you know, that yeah you can pick a task and then without kind of like spiraling out of control and like don't have you and you don't have have enough spoons and whatever it they can just start.
00:31:45
Speaker
and like And I struggle. I struggle to start. Even things that I really want to do. Even things that are kind of like, oh, yeah, really you want to do this. And it just, there seems to be a lot of, my my brain seems to want to process, start to kind of like want to process the thing that i'm going to do i'm going to start doing. And then it just it just gets caught up in the,
00:32:14
Speaker
yeah thinking about it or something and then i get anxious about it and then i yeah you know don't yeah yeah and it's there's and there's often nonsensical as well take why you why you'd like you know why especially post-diagnosis You think, okay, you you think, Jesus Christ, I should know my mind by now.
00:32:41
Speaker
And you're almost like um like, for me, i need to finish. some For me, it's not so much starting something, it's finishing finishing something off.
00:32:53
Speaker
Right. you know yep um like ah So many good ideas I've had in the past. So many good ideas.
00:33:03
Speaker
Like when the dot-com thing started 25 years ago, I had a ah really good idea. ah even had investors. Even the investors, we even your ex-bosses, Martin, I had a conversation with.
00:33:17
Speaker
And they said, oh, we'd really invest in that idea, Paul. And I didn't take it on. And it's like, oh, fuck's sake, you know, um like yeah good ideas.
00:33:32
Speaker
And I want to I'm now a point where i it's really hard to do it, but really trying hard to like, okay, got a good idea. Okay, let's take that idea and run with it.
00:33:49
Speaker
Right. But not just run with it. See it through to its potential. God, that's hard. I can remember you and i working at Redland Marketing Department.
00:34:03
Speaker
So we're going back many years now. And I was working on a project and for and then for some reason I was struggling to finish it.
00:34:15
Speaker
And it was at that point that i realized I was great for the first 80% of a project. And then yeah on that last 20%, I really tailed off badly.
00:34:29
Speaker
Right. Right. and and know And it came to me like, oh, my God, 8% and then this is 20%. And then from that point, I went, no, I'm going to be good that 20%. And it almost became, had to put 80% of my effort into last 20% of project.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:48
Speaker
into the last twenty percent ever project yeah to make the whole thing work. Like I had to realize that that I had to put way, had to, most of the project was the last 20%.
00:35:03
Speaker
twenty percent and and once I kind of like totally accounted for that, I became a lot better. Yeah. ah totally get that. I totally get that.
00:35:14
Speaker
I worked on, as you well as you know, Martin, I worked on a sculpture ah last last year. Yeah. And it was exactly that. It was exactly that.
00:35:25
Speaker
Finish it, Paul. Finish it. Finish it. Oh, for God's sake, finish it, you know? the But not just finish it. Finish it to its full potential.
00:35:38
Speaker
God, that took so much energy for me. Yeah.
Composure and Simple Pleasures
00:35:43
Speaker
All right. So that was number seven. Okay. Number eight is yours, Paul. Composure.
00:35:50
Speaker
Composure. composure
00:35:57
Speaker
never had it you've you've talked about this before yeah neurotypical people seem to be kind of somehow centred and they kind of come off as like self-assured and just yeah or at least have the potential to be composed they don't panic so much yeah yeah and I've never, I mean, the nearest thing I think I get to compare is when I'm painting, sculpting or photographing.
00:36:33
Speaker
Right. you like but in your But other than that, yeah, other than that, composure is so hard. And it's I remember ah um ah I started working working with, I started having sessions.
00:36:49
Speaker
God, God, even that sounds weird. Anyway, I started having sessions with a new psychologist. Yeah. in Turin about, oh, blimey, going back about eight years now. Blimey.
00:37:02
Speaker
No, seven years. Okay. and she so she but From the get-go, she said, so, Paul, what do you want out of this, you know? and basically what she saying, what you want out of the relationship relationship between me and you?
00:37:15
Speaker
And her as a psychologist, me as a patient, I said, ah basically said to her, I wanted composure. I wanted to get to a point in life where I felt happy with my lot.
00:37:30
Speaker
who And I could just be.
00:37:36
Speaker
And that was enough. Right. You know, that's why said to her and it's true then as it is today. Compose is like, yeah.
00:37:50
Speaker
Don't have to try any harder anymore. You know? Right. Is that like kind of sort of like peace, like bit of a sense of calmness?
00:38:02
Speaker
and Yeah. um Where your nervous system is not kind going, your brain's kind going. Just it, just letting it, letting it, let it be, let it be, let it be, let it go.
00:38:18
Speaker
Right. But it is that. It is that. It's like, you know, len just whatever will be will be, you know, it's like, you know. Right. You know what?
00:38:32
Speaker
I definitely feel I'm more in that place than I ever have been. Oh, that's good. Like I'm, I and know what it ends up being. And at the same time, Fuck you.
00:38:44
Speaker
You bastard.
00:38:49
Speaker
I only wish the best for you, mate. Yeah. Thank you, mate.
00:38:57
Speaker
ah That's good, though. That's good. Let me just see how jealous you are. Oh, okay. Fairly. Oh, madam. Fairly. That's good, though. That's good. Yeah. You know what?
00:39:09
Speaker
it It comes from... I think at some point you end up, as as i as you are doing, you you you you start to pull apart your life and go, well, this gives me anxiety and this...
00:39:24
Speaker
gets my nervous system on the edge and this doesn't bring me peace and you kind of go well let's just chop these things out right and you and you start chasing just just those kind of like nice quiet times which is ah think one of the benefits like i used to like living in manhattan right or working in manhattan and i lived in brooklyn it was buzzy buzzy all the time i like the that city none edge but then when moved out and now I've got like space and I've got a garden I can plant things and I've got and I've got and like I was like oh suddenly my my whole body just goes just kind of like that could be challenging right winds them
00:40:13
Speaker
It is for while. That could be really challenging. Yeah. Right. It's like, this is weird. Like, this is silence. I'm not, I'm not, um not and like, where are they where are the cop cars screaming up and down the road?
00:40:29
Speaker
Right.
00:40:34
Speaker
That's really nice. That's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I guess what came to mind was you were saying that it's like, oh, well, I've been chasing the freaking, you know, dopamine all my life.
00:40:48
Speaker
That didn't work. Right. You know? Yeah. yeah It's like, oh, so paul Paul Martin, when you going to give that up?
00:41:00
Speaker
Well, you know what? I almost feel like it's um I just get dopamine from smaller and less chaotic things. Right. So a like if you have like if it's bustle and trauma and stuff going on, you can get dopamine from that.
00:41:22
Speaker
um yeah But actually, over time, you can get dopamine from just real, really simple little quiet times. Oh, God, yes. and You know, like i just listening to birds and shit.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the simplest things, like noticing stuff. you know, that other people don't get to notice, you know.
00:41:48
Speaker
oh For me, one of my greatest pleasures in life is good food, good what good wine, and good company. Mm-hmm. And I don't really, you know, ah of an evening, I don't really want more than that.
00:42:03
Speaker
I've done everything else. Right. You know, in evening kind of, an evening kind of entertainment realm, you know, clubbing, concerting, you know,
00:42:15
Speaker
um drug filled, alcohol fueled evenings. You've done everything and more. Okay. Done all of that. I don't need to do that again. Now I'm more than happy with, you know, good company, good wine, good food.
00:42:31
Speaker
That's more than enough. Right. I don't need the good wine. Yeah. out yeah And the good company once in a while. but yeah mostly not.
00:42:46
Speaker
I totally get that. I totally get that. Yeah. Just me. I totally get that. Yeah. Me doggy. Yes. My dog. Watching the ducks in our swimming Yes.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I could, for instance, it so it's a good point. Well put, Mr. West. last Last Saturday I cooked with me me and my ah partner.
00:43:13
Speaker
cooked a risotto, asparagus risotto. All right. Good bottle of wine, having a chat, playing cards. Nice. And that was it.
00:43:25
Speaker
That was our evening. And it was fabulous, a fabulous evening. Fabulous. I love that. i think she quite liked it too. wow. Cheeky.
00:43:37
Speaker
Cheeky. ah But, yeah, but and and other simple things, you know, noticing, you know, well, you know, you and i we both, we actually, we first met at art college, and the the first thing that I think was Sheila said to us on the first day, or definitely the first week, she said, going to teach you to see with new eyes.
00:44:04
Speaker
New eyes. New eyes. And I still hold on to that. now It is a gift that keeps on giving to see things.
00:44:15
Speaker
The gift that keeps on giving to see things, see beauty and, you know, um in, a you know, everyday things is is a joy.
Thriving in Chaos
00:44:25
Speaker
So what we're saying is like neurotypical brains have far less noise.
00:44:32
Speaker
than yes so it would be yeah nice to kind of like have a have a brain that that was less chaos in your head and you could just kind of like be it would just be easier just to kind of find your little zen yeah yeah but but i guess my how I would wrap up that, at least in my mind, that discussion is that in that chaos, when you've experienced that level of continuous chaos for 40, 50 years, you, your brain becomes somehow trained in all of that chaos and,
00:45:21
Speaker
to deal with the chaos and therefore filter the chaos and know what feels good and what doesn't. Mm-hmm. You know, so does that make sense?
00:45:33
Speaker
Yep. Yep. we are We are very good at working in chaos. Yeah. So that be will be I think you develop a very agile mind in the end.
00:45:47
Speaker
You know, it's a painful journey, but you get there. Right. You can find peace in a very difficult situation, right? Yeah, exactly. That's if there's a problem and people are freaking out, someone with ADHD or some neurodivergent person can be quite level-headed and cool and and actually you function a lot better in chaos. Mm-hmm.
00:46:18
Speaker
because i Because we are so used to working in chaos. um Yeah. Nice. um Nice. i My last one, number nine, I so i saved my brain big guns and for the loss for the last
00:46:38
Speaker
um so i am generous ah Neurotypicals being understood by by but but did it cool by default.
00:46:53
Speaker
you know like They can be understood. like like The default position for so society is they are on understood.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah. Whereas is we, neurodivergent, we have to work matt
00:47:15
Speaker
explaining ourselves you know we you know like know we we we find that we have to kind of like make up or mask right so you end up having to mask and to put a lot more effort into just working in that normal world and being understood whereas neurotypical people have a lot less work to do to be to just you know be understood yeah yeah you know what i mean yeah know what you mean
00:47:56
Speaker
And at the same time, the complexity of the ADHD mind is also its joy. Well, yes, I was going to come on to the twist part, why it's oh good for us.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah. Part. Yeah. Right. um I just I just want to kind of hang on to that kind of for a little bit longer, like. like Sorry. Neurotypicals have this.
00:48:24
Speaker
I didn't leave room enough room for the hanging. no no, we should hang more, Paul. We should hang more. All right, let's talk about something else.
00:48:37
Speaker
That's a really nice point, though. That's a really, really nuanced and really nice thing. Why do they get to be understood? And we have to work. Yeah.
00:48:48
Speaker
We have to work. yeah We, Paul, we have to do a podcast. You know what mean? that That's work. That's extra work that we're putting in. Yes.
00:48:59
Speaker
Just to try and explain to the world. Yeah. you know, just to make the world understand us more.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yeah. But also be vulnerable because it's not new. It's nothing new. It's like ADHD didn't happen now today in this episode. It, it's always been there.
00:49:24
Speaker
Right. It's just that we're, we'd like being putting ourselves on the, you know, um on the block, putting our heads on the block and, And actually being vulnerable, where there's nothing more vulnerable than having your head on a block, um and saying, you know, this what it feels like to be vulnerable, to be authentic, to be sensitive, you know, and more sensitive than neurotypicals are.
00:49:54
Speaker
it's It's hard work. Right. Think about this, The world assumes that we are normal. the world assumed that we are normal So you walk down the street, you go into a store, you do this, you yeah do that. And the world assumes that you're normal unless you have to know that person.
00:50:20
Speaker
and then And then because we are who we are stuff will happen. We'll be fishing out, trying to fish our keys out of a restaurant trash can, right? Right.
00:50:32
Speaker
And they go, oh what? No, this isn't this person's not normal. And then we have to there a city we have to put in effort to explain who we are and and yet and to try and include us under that normal umbrella.
00:50:53
Speaker
um Yeah.
Masking and Empathy in Society
00:50:54
Speaker
I would go further than that. but yeah Okay, go on. No, no. Go go further, Paul. I'll go further than that. think it's it's become flipped now. It's become that, think it's become, they've started to, i think that there's a certain level of aggression against people that are neuro diverse.
00:51:15
Speaker
I think it's based, based on envy because like, oh they have something that can really hang their hat on, you know,
00:51:28
Speaker
They can hang their hat on, okay, there' there's oh, there's a why, there's a reason, you know, why they're struggling and everything.
00:51:39
Speaker
I think there's a level of envy, you know, because there's a level, there's a sense of place, tribalism in being neurodiverse that they...
00:51:52
Speaker
Right, yeah. Yeah, i would yeah i would the I would definitely say that there is a reaction to neurodivergent people having a voice and and putting ourselves into a group.
00:52:10
Speaker
um I think identity. Right. I'm not too sure that it's necessarily jealousy or envy. It's just like... we are now the the other and we've just become visible. Right. and Otherness.
00:52:26
Speaker
They don't like that because it means that... normal is bigger than they thought it was right there's more yeah there's more in normal than they think which which and it requires them to put in effort or work or something into including us and they resent the work it would need to understand right to um to understand us Their perceptions have been challenged about what normal means.
00:52:58
Speaker
Right. And they don't want to put in the work. It's easier to hate something than it is to love something, right? It's it's easier to go. Or indifferent. Right.
00:53:10
Speaker
I mean, that would be a start. That that would be fine. Yeah. I would take that over, they've you know, dis dislike. yeah Yeah. like I mean, that i mean there's it's it's a really difficult thing. I can't think of it in Italian, the Paragon, you'd say in Italian, in italian the similarity is so in the the yeah trans community at the moment.
00:53:40
Speaker
I mean, just, it's just abhorrent. It's just disgusting what's happening at the moment in the, and you know, the negative feeling towards the trans ah community at the moment.
00:53:52
Speaker
And it's just, there's so much just toxicity going on at the moment. yeah And I think the, unfortunately, you know, this, um, uh, what's, what's the word I'm thinking of?
00:54:07
Speaker
Um,
00:54:10
Speaker
Oh, God. um Dynamic. um What is the word? The divide. You know, the people are thinking it's black and white way.
00:54:21
Speaker
is not is you know It's not going in a good direction at the moment. It is not. Polarisation. Polarisation. ah It's this polarization. and just not The answer isn't in polarization. It's not there.
00:54:36
Speaker
No one's going to find it in polarization. It's going to be in nuancing. going to be be in empathizing and thinking, oh, maybe my perceptions and my thinking is missing something. Maybe I'm not informed.
00:54:55
Speaker
All these challenging concepts, you know, that people are feeling, seems it seems like they're less and less willing to take on. Right, because it's not useful for their agenda.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah. in Including or being inclusive is is there is more power in in having an enemy um pointing to an enemy um right and saying and it's it's their fault.
00:55:28
Speaker
like There is more power there than there is in the effort to include. but that Yes. um It seems like there's always been this obsession, you know and religion is a big part of it. It's good and bad.
00:55:45
Speaker
you know, good and bad. It's always been there. It's polarization. It's nothing new. So it's, you know, good and evil.
00:55:56
Speaker
And it's not, the world isn't like that. The world isn't good and evil. It's everything in between ah for heaven's sake, you know? Yeah. um All right.
00:56:08
Speaker
Number 10. Let's, let's, let's get to number 10. Mr. Mr. T. mr t um I've got what it just seems after that discussion, this one seems a little bit banal, but I've got number five. I'll say anyway.
00:56:22
Speaker
Yes. Avoidance of all all related ADHD, ADHD tax fallout. i i I envy the neurotypical world for notught not having um have had not having had to pay all of the taxes I've had to pay in my 58 years of the consequences.
00:56:50
Speaker
You mean actual taxes? No. ADHD tax. ADHD related taxes, you know, costs, you know, I'm talking and probably in my case amm getting, oh, God, this is interesting.
00:57:10
Speaker
i mean, think think about it. I'm probably talking about 200,000 euros. euros
00:57:17
Speaker
Right. I'm guessing, you know, putting it out there as a figure that it's cost me. I think that's pretty accurate, I think.
00:57:28
Speaker
Right. So you're... I'd rather have it in my bank. Right. So you're saying that because you have ADHD and the consequences of that and mean that you've ended up having to pay...
00:57:44
Speaker
another 200 grand. um Yeah. Whereas a neurotypical person, probably a little bit more on it, not procrastinating so much, and then yeah they don't end up. So the MP is less.
00:58:02
Speaker
An envy that's less emotionally based is more practically based. I would rather have that money. You know, money his is, you know, i don't want I'm not a capitalist by any,
00:58:15
Speaker
um can in any in by any shape or form, but um it is, money does have a consequence in terms of um peace of mind.
00:58:28
Speaker
It does. Right. Let's say I mean, it's it's the kind of like, oh, God. yeah I mean, because I've i'veve i'm been in this place before where I've procrastinated about something and it's cost me hundreds of thousands.
00:58:46
Speaker
Right. And... and and you And it becomes emotional but because you feel like such a fucktard, right? Because you kind of feel like such an idiot. Right. And yeah like you're like, yes yeah it doesn't hit job on your self-esteem, right? And you go into a guilt-shame spiral. and Yeah. ah Yeah.
00:59:08
Speaker
No, it isn't about the money. it's It ends up being about the sort of, emotional cost that it hits you with because you're like, I'm such a fucking child.
00:59:22
Speaker
Why? Yeah. ah yeah And then you just trust yourself. Yeah. but I should be, as a 58-year-old man, i should be way more comfortable than I am.
00:59:37
Speaker
Way more comfortable than I am.
00:59:41
Speaker
Right. But, you know, this is, hey, this is where I am. So, yeah, it's it's it's not very emotional. It's not very very kind of romantic, not the most romantic or simulating part of this conversation for this podcast. But it's a big, for me, it's a big factor in the end.
01:00:01
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and And it's related to your well-being, you know, state of mind. There we go. All right. So that is our top 10. Top 10 things that we are you were a little bit jealous about neurotypical people.
01:00:18
Speaker
um Yes. my My little kind of closing comment is that we might not be consistent, but we are memorable. Yeah.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. mean, there's... Yes. In terms of our, um you know, what we leave behind, what's what's the word?
Legacy and Future Topics
01:00:41
Speaker
It's one of those words that I can never remember.
01:00:43
Speaker
zawa Legacy. Thank you, Martin. Our legacy. On the ends of the hips. Okay. Legacy. Legacy.
01:00:53
Speaker
I've got... See what did there? Legabees. I've got legabees. And... and legacy say you know we push comes to shove who gives a flying doodah about what we leave behind other than a legacy an emotional legacy is the most important right i tend to like to think of that how Right, because it's like, you know, so much of my life has been chaos and crap and shit and damage.
01:01:26
Speaker
Right, in that order. Fires and, right, and disaster. Fires. I mean, just like, like you know, I just mean like, you know, ah know You know those kind of films where a disaster film, but so there was ah so there's a whole bunch of my life which is like a disaster film and then now I'm trying to kind of like at least kind of put things right and in some way and just trying to fix things and trying to at least end in a place that was like... Would you like, in terms of film genres, would you like it to turn into a kind of a rom-com?
01:02:04
Speaker
Oh, God, no. Who wants that? Who wants that? What film would you like your life to turn into if it was a film genre?
01:02:16
Speaker
Oh, God. You know, like, I don't know. It has to be of has to be like at the end of the film where I'm dead and then there's a sort of like a wake, a party, and they go and and they go, you know what?
01:02:32
Speaker
He was a bit of a cunt, but
01:02:37
Speaker
but what he came good in the end. Right. andy And he did these good things. And he was positive and he made a difference. Even though we started out in in like, yeah, arsehole world.
01:02:54
Speaker
yeah It's like a sort of hero's journey, right? So, you so yeah so you know so so ah you know, bad comes comes becomes good. but That's that's the that's the the film. It's just that hero's journey.
01:03:08
Speaker
yeah And it all ends fine. I think what you're saying is you'd like to be a genre busting. kind of guy no i think it's like almost every genre is like you know zero to hero ah story arc i'd like to be i'd like to be genre busting i'd like to be have you seen the film um uh pride prejudice and zombies no i've seen the book but Okay, have you seen it or read it?
01:03:37
Speaker
I've seen it. I've just seen the cover. Oh, okay. that you should see the You should watch the film. All right. Pride, Prejudice and Zombies is great. All right.
01:03:48
Speaker
That will never happen. I'd like to describe my life when I finally pop my clogs. i would a big I want to be that kind of genre. I want to be a genre-busting kind of chap.
01:04:02
Speaker
All right. and That would be okay for me. All right. Cool. That would be a ah legacy that I could deal with. Paul is genre-busting Thompson.
01:04:14
Speaker
um All right. Well, let's let's end there. um ah we are going to, I think I am going to kind of like say, let let's just kind of do the feedback.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yes. And then we'll zip through the final end is in sight. Okay. We've been recording since 1.30, 2.30, 3.30. Almost two and a half hours.
01:04:41
Speaker
God damn it.
01:04:45
Speaker
time
01:04:47
Speaker
Oh, we've had technical problems, guys. We have had technical problems. But I think it's one the best, maybe the best episode we've ever freaking recorded. well, you know. Especially because Martin said the word cunt, you know, five weeks ago.
01:05:04
Speaker
Which personally it was for me a highlight. It's taken 83 episodes for the C word.
01:05:18
Speaker
So that's good. Even Eddie got up for that one. Even Eddie was rooting for you on that one. No, he is. He's like down by my feet. Eddie was saying, finally, you said, it's about time.
01:05:31
Speaker
Actually, he's like, come on, can you just feed me, you bastard? That's what you're thinking. Okay. Is it? What is Eddie's feeding time? It's anywhere between four and five, and we're like ten to four. safe Same for my Rudy.
01:05:48
Speaker
Same for Rudy. He's like, come on, then. Get that food in me. What are you waiting for? Come on. Feed me. Come on.
01:06:00
Speaker
That's him. Okay. So, yeah, feedback. All right. to we we Should we get back in the tractor? or Let's get back in the tractor and we'll go back to the pub.
01:06:10
Speaker
Come on, let's get in there. can't hear it. I'm sure they're there. I'm sure it's getting there. All right.
01:06:22
Speaker
Cool. That's probably the tractor over. um Yeah. This is where you say... This is where I say your feedback is vital to us.
01:06:35
Speaker
ah Full stop. We read all of your comments and we might read yours. How are the future podcasts? Full stop. ah Like these two that Marty is about to mention. like Like this one.
01:06:49
Speaker
um this one? No, there is just the one. So... so a like Alex Zandra, the official ADHD town cry.
01:07:01
Speaker
um um Always, always ah lovely, lovely comments. um And she was commenting on last week's where you and I took an autism test.
01:07:15
Speaker
Yes, and we were kind of wondering about our particularly high scores. We're like, ooh. Yes. Ooh. It's a bit interesting. And she does point out that a the i negative autism test can be false, right?
01:07:31
Speaker
So yes if you score lowly if you score low, that doesn't mean that you don't have autism. But but but she goes on to say that a positive one, i.e. one where we've scored fairly high, is almost every time positive.
01:07:49
Speaker
So if you've scored highly... there is a far greater chance that it's correct rather than... yeah, I'll get that. Yeah.
01:08:03
Speaker
yeah I get that. Okay. it's yeah it's It's almost like if you scored highly, yeah, yeah, you're in the club, mate. That's what it is. I'd like to add, because I'm not sure if we said this, because if people are curious, go back to the the last ah talk last episode, I just want to point out that most autism tests are based on white males as subjects so you know the the autism tests are so um um they seriously need updating and they need to be made much more relevant to much broader audience autistic as we are white white males they are much more suited to us so uh if we've scored highly
01:08:55
Speaker
o Who knows? shout Watch out. um All right. So next week, next week, we're up next week we're going to talk about ADHD and the sense of smell.
01:09:11
Speaker
i we Some say sense of smell is, you know, the most linked to memory, right for instance. Right. Yeah, it is. So let's see how that turns out, Martin. Right. Some ADHD research into ADHD and smells.
01:09:26
Speaker
All right. So that just finally leaves me. Although, well, I'm not going hear this. A lot of hours. Oh, it's crazy. Oh, it's been hard work. Right, is to say that ADHDville is delivered fresh every Tuesday to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and wrote rate us most amazing and feel free to correspond with us in the comments. But wait, there is more if you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces and Sally forth to the YouTubes and the TikToks. Sally Fields.
01:09:58
Speaker
And you can also pick up a quill and email us at ADHDville at gmail.com. But in the meantime... and kind yourself. And I beseech you fellow ADHDers, know thyselves, sons of the hounds.
01:10:12
Speaker
Come hither and gather flesh. We've got to the end. We've got to the end. We did it. We've got to the end. Jesus Christ.
01:10:24
Speaker
There, says the mayor. That's that.