Transcript
Speaker: an Energy, back in the room! Yes we are! Back in the room! and okay So yeah, this week we're going to be talking about ADHD and form filling. Filling out those forms. yes So, let's go to a place where the distractions are landmarks and the detours are the main roads. Welcome to ADHDville!
Speaker: Hello!
Speaker: Chum chum.
Speaker: Yes, we are. ADHD. Kind of way. Hello, I'm Paul Thompson. I was diagnosed with the combined ADHD and the D, crawling towards, like, really slowly, but getting there a pair of years ago.
Speaker: deuce, you... ah Dropping a deuce of years. And I'm Martin West, and I was diagnosed with the combined ADHD poo-poo platter in 2013. thirteen I believe.
Speaker: So we start off as we have been lately, as the co-mayors, no, the ex-co-mayors of ADHDville, sitting at the back of the King's Agitated Head pub, yes um where we take care of business. And today, as I said, we are talking about ADHD in filling forms.
Speaker: um Yeah. yeah Yeah, I think, you know what, I think we will have to stay in the pub because I think we do because i I think I'm going to need a beverage. This is particularly, is this is hardcore from for for farm filling.
Speaker: Farm filling. Farm filling. Farm filling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. Farm filling is like the one thing will guarantee me to um two two two to provoke me, to trigger me, that's the word, to trigger me into some kind of meltdown.
Speaker: Yep. Number one. Number one. The number one. Not big meltdowns, but, well, sometimes, but not like mini meltdowns.
Speaker: And I have to, like, you know, have to, like, get up and have a, like, wander to the other side of the house and, you know, compose myself. Right. Yeah. I think there's...
Speaker: For me, there's an avoidant part to filling out forms. Like if you've got some documents you have to fill out, there's a kind of a procrastination part to it, which is like, I know it's going to be shit.
Speaker: I know it's going to be boring. and I'm just going to put it off, right? You just kick that can down the road until you know and so the the deadline okay really starts to kick your ass, and then you get into it, and then you get into the whole meltdown, yes and you're filling out the form, and there's tears coming down your face, and they're dropping on your on the form. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, you you're you like, you you're kind of like yeah your eyes are bleeding. Yeah, and crying. They're crying and bleeding. The left is bleeding. I did a bit of research. I did a bit research on Reddit.
Speaker: There are people out there that actually get people in to do form feeling for them, ADHD as that is. They get people in. fucking They recruit. Wow. They get back up. wow they croop they get back up That's, man, if if you've got those kinds of resources.
Speaker: Yeah. I love it. I love it. it's It's a bit like I read the other day that a japanese with Japanese, you can hire a grandmother to come and cook for you. Yeah.
Speaker: It's similar. I'm just putting it out there as parallel worlds. I've probably read somewhere. You can hire someone to quit your job for you.
Speaker: That's brilliant. I think ah that's right. That is brilliant. Well, if it's not right, let's make it right. You could send a substitute.
Speaker: Yes, I believe so. You send like a body double in to quit your job. You know what? I mean, like I am kind of like talking.
Speaker: i have this thought on the edge of my memory, so I can't be 100% sure, but it is something like that. Could have been a dream. Well, yeah.
Speaker: But, I mean, ah ah well, yeah, yes. if If I could have someone to come in and do my form filling for me, that would be freaking awesome. It's like another, well, something similar in Napoli in Italy, you can hire people, women, to dress up in black and mourn at your funeral.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. as Well, not only that, but before the funeral, they they come and and perform at the wake and, you know, stay a lot of time and say the right things at the right moments.
Speaker: Right. see to Do do? Yes. And cry, which is important. Yes. Do they require forms? That would be silly. ah Okay. Is that right?
Speaker: Do you have to fill out forms to kind of get these people? do. And if you' see if it's an Italian form fill form of filling um exercise, particularly torturous. Yeah. you're...
Speaker: um torturous yeah yeah so So you're the one crying, filling out the forms. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's like a funeral because you're like mourning for your sense of humor. It's just like when out the window. Mm-hmm. um You know what? ah like I was thinking about what types of forms.
Speaker: And there's ah there is a type of form which is just like if it's just your name, address, email, telephone number, right sign date, yeah right? Fine. Yeah.
Speaker: Fine. yeah I could do that. That's easy. It's boring. i also like I like the ones that also on the similar theme, I like the ones that say, okay, this shouldn't take any more time than 10 minutes.
Speaker: Shouldn't take up any more than 10 minutes of your time. Oh, that's okay. Right. That's okay. So you don't get to say, oh, this is like a six-step thing and I'm going to be here for an hour. so Okay. ah Yeah, I can do that. That's already helping me.
Speaker: Yeah. Even if there was a recruitment form feeling I had to do, which we'll go on to recruitment later, the recruitment form feeling thing that I had to do like 10 days ago, they said it was only 20 minutes. It was no way it was 20 minutes. It was at least 40 to 50 minutes easily.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they they've just like, oh, come on. Who are you kidding? Mm-hmm. ah know I know. ah like if If there's a bit of form filling, I have to do. And I think for me, taxes is a version of form filling where I have to open up documents, I have to collect data, I have to fill out the boxes, i have to provide numbers.
Speaker: And that is probably my that that is my worst annual form filling exercise ever. I have to do. one and what Sorry, what what could what he what annual form filling do you have to do? Taxes.
Speaker: Doing i your taxes. Oh, okay. yeah yeah Yeah, I don't have to do that. ah I pay someone to do that. Well, i have to I have to provide all the information for my accountant.
Speaker: Okay. who does Who does the actual kind of the official tax part. But I have to kind of almost fill out his form, if you like, provide him on with information so that he can then deal with it. Well, that's a good point. You just reminded me of something rather timely.
Speaker: He sent my man, accountant, my yeah my man accountant sent me forms to fill out about six weeks ago and i haven't done it yet and it's probably for that exact thing maybe it's probably that i've been avoiding it although i don't know when your tax season starts houses in like well our taxes during like april so um okay don't have to deal with that till next year
Speaker: What else you got, Paul? I've got here types of things um in the actual forms or the actual creation of the forms that makes my blood boil.
Speaker: All right. Lazy coders. You lazy coders, you. Lazy coders. So, like, for instance, it's I think it's fairly easy for a coder when they're doing, you know, creating a form-filling thing on online, that if you make a mistake and you need to go back, you don't need – you have autofill.
Speaker: You don't need to re-fill. Do everything that you've done up to that point. Or there's a timeout. Oh, timeouts. It's either not autosave or there's a timeout. So after 10 minutes, you lose it all.
Speaker: Damn you. i have to do the whole thing again. yeah That's just lazy coding. That's just me pun punching the screen at that point. Yeah. okay
Speaker: Okay. Just anyone who's listening on a podcast, Martin literally just pointed, punched the screen. Yeah. As an example. Yeah.
Speaker: I know. then I've gone next to my list of annoying things. When the form filling is on your cell phone and there's this like, there's a field for where you need to write a description, you know, oh, why do you want this job or something like that?
Speaker: And the field is really tiny. And after about five words, you can't see what you're typing anymore.
Speaker: Oh, And there's no way to actually expand the field to see what you're actually typing. Damn you coders. Coders. Lazy coders. Come on.
Speaker: Oh, I'm going punch you. Have you got anything particular about... Have you got anything particular? Oh. Specific.
Speaker: Specific. um Oh, well, generally... I will ah will jump in and say that my worst form filling part of my life was the years of paperwork that it took me to become an American and an american citizen.
Speaker: but Going through the through the visa process, then the green card process, and then the actual naturalization process required rooms of paperwork like yeah I cannot stress how unbelievably bureaucratic that whole process is. it's not just an excuse then?
Speaker: Every time, no. Every time I had to you know renew a visa or or apply for the next one, it was it was like a war and peace-sized paperwork.
Speaker: And... it required it It required copies of of of other documents. Right. If anything, it kind of taught to me how to read forms and to do them if there was any upside to any two of that. Okay, yes. Well, yeah, because, you know, like on forms, my pet peeve on forms is one of them is,
Speaker: You're never quite sure sometimes whether you're supposed to write on this line or the line below it or the line above. You know, like where it says name and you think you have to write your name there. Yeah. And realize, oh, no, it's actually it was supposed to be on the line ho under it.
Speaker: Yes. And then you'll write your full name and then you'll realize it it says surname and and and and family name or given name or, you know, like, oh, I've i've written my full name. was supposed to break it out into two because because I didn't, it wasn't clear that, you know, that my first name and my second name were on different lines. I read out the whole thing and then I'm,
Speaker: I think, fuck it, hell. I can't even do the first the first the first line of the form, which is your name. Yes. ah Right. Right. If you screw that up, it's like, oh, Christ, is this is this how the rest of form is going to go? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I've got what comes to mind, you mentioned that, um is some because it's form filling in a way. um i do I do conversation English, online kind conversation English classes to Italians. so I do about 40 hours a month.
Speaker: And they send at the end of every month, they send an x an Excel sheet. Okay. With really badly, just really badly formatted. And there's no space because I maybe have four different clients in one day and there's no space to write the names of the four different clients.
Speaker: So I have to make it like five point. So if it's within the column, tiny, you mean. yeah And it's just, oh, man, it's just really bad. It's really, really bad.
Speaker: One time um when I was doing all my immigration paperwork, um which, as I said, is like the most horrendous form-filling exercise of anyone's life, um I got a an appointment to go to the American embassy. Uh-huh.
Speaker: um So I rocked up there and they and just ah when you go in, you have to show that you've done certain bits of paperwork. They will say, show your proof of A, B and C, like you've done all this kind of stuff.
Speaker: And then i realized that I hadn't. I'd only done like one part of the of the paperwork and the bulk of it I had not actually done.
Speaker: right and i was like would you hadn't seen it or you just forgotten actually i'd forgotten to fill out a whole load of paperwork right i'd already done like a big wodge and i forgot there was another huge wodge that i hadn't done because it's like complicated and crap yeah um and then i was like oh shit what do i do And then the guy pointed me to this Asian, no, this Indian um corner store, you know, like a sort of a bodega corner shop thing where you kind of go in and they sell bread and magazines and yeah tins of soup.
Speaker: And then yeah there's also like an internet cafe part right in the middle of the store where they'd set up some computers. Right. yeah And they were charging you like, i don't know, an exorbitant amount of money per hour.
Speaker: Just for people like me that had forgotten. So went, oh, Christ. So I just went in there, pay take I just gave him my life life savings and sat down and I filled out all this paperwork And then they pints it all out, and then and then I could run back to the embassy and go, I've got it all, I've got it all.
Speaker: Because you had a slot at the embassy. I have a slot of time. Yeah. Blimey. And they saved my my day, but Jesus Christ, that was stressful. Have they charged you a lot for that?
Speaker: Yeah. They were yeah kind of ah profiting from... Yeah, from my lack of form-filling skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. They got me.
Speaker: Yeah, I had a similar situation when I had to renew my residency in Turin in Italy. And I went to the the the the local, well, the place where the bureaucracy department of um of the town hall.
Speaker: And I had everything. had all the documents. And then there's one thing you can always be assured of in Italy is they'll ask for some random document that is completely irrelevant.
Speaker: And in this case, she said, okay, so you've got you this and that and this. Okay. Bear mind, you queued up for three hours. Right. And you queue up and you wait and you wait and you get there and you're like confident, you know, you're confident. You've got it all in.
Speaker: You don't have to go back. She said, Oh, ah need an original copy signed by the judge of your, your divorce. Right. And I said, what?
Speaker: What? I said, for residency? She said, yes. I said, that's not going to happen. told her that's not going to happen. but she could tell She could tell by the look on my face that, okay, I don't want to upset this guy.
Speaker: So she said, oh, okay, we'll let it go. but i just i said i've I said, I've never been, up lived in Italy for, well, at that time, 16 years. So it's four years ago.
Speaker: I said, I've, I've applied for residency numerous times. No one's ever asked me for, uh, uh, um, proof of my divorce for residency. That's just insane. Right. I gave her, this only works if you're, if you're English, but I gave her a Paddington bear stare.
Speaker: Yeah. No, I mean, I have had to do that. So that's that was definitely part of my of my of my form filling was the was the proof of divorce stuff.
Speaker: yay Yeah, yeah. But and in Italy, they have to they have to see the original. You can't you can't give them a copy. Yes, I know. It has to be the original. Yep, here as well.
Speaker: Same, same, right, okay. because I suppose they're pretty sure. I know i have a friend of mine who's Ukrainian, and she said, and but she said it's the same in Russia.
Speaker: Everyone in Russia, they um it's a well-known, it's almost like a national sport in that in that part of the world, that all your documents are forged.
Speaker: Right. ah they It's just a well-known fact. It's like, yeah, of course. we they Completely fearless about it It's like, yeah, that's just what you do. Hmm. All right.
Speaker: ah look Yeah, no, so mean like, so one thing that I, one one of my things that I learned to do through all of that was part of the reason why forms get me is because as you kind of say, there's There's the parts that I can just fill out, name, address, blah, blah, blah. It's fine.
Speaker: But then they will ask for other stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. Other things, information about this or that or something, you know, and numbers or documents, right? So there's all of that part, which...
Speaker: spins you out into like, oh, now I have to you go and search for this piece of the info and piece of that info. So um what I did was to to get me through all those forms, is which I still do, is I have a Word doc, which sits online,
Speaker: ah and to end in in in dropbox and in it yeah is like my master list of everything so it's got all my passwords to everything all my bank account details all my card details my parents details any anything basically that i might need piece of information that i may ever need that yes and i can put it up on my phone Right. It's my life.
Speaker: I can put it up on my phone anywhere. So it doesn't matter where I am in the world. If I need to find my passport number, if I need to find my bank account details, if I need to find anything random, I have it.
Speaker: Plus also i keep on there photos of my driving license, my passport, like any documents that I've scanned end up going there. Anytime I go on, this is this is this this is like where the autistic part of my brain has gone, all right, Martin, just just follow this system and it will make it easier.
Speaker: So every time I go online and I create a password for something, my brain automatically opens up that password. password doc and we'll go down and i will and I will put in the password for the thing. Yeah. I've done that.
Speaker: I've done that. I've created a password. Right. Password records. Because otherwise it's a nightmare. Yes. Yeah. And it's the same thing for like, you know, like when you do job applications, which is like the fucking form filling.
Speaker: yeah if If you're hunting for a job. That's the worst for me. Right. So I've got part of my of my document is like all my job details. Yeah.
Speaker: details Yeah. And everything for filling out all those things. I just copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste. i mean, it's boring as hell. there is I mean, it's getting better because um I uploaded, this is literally 10 days ago, uploaded my CV as a PDF.
Speaker: And with AI, I suppose, oh it auto-filled my work experience based on the on the PDF that I'd already uploaded. All right.
Speaker: Which is smart. That's really cool. yes Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah. I like it. But then they started asking really annoying questions. It's like pseudo psychological stuff, you know, and I, I abandoned it and I actually told, I wrote the recruiter and said, I'm sorry if you want, if you want me to go any further with, with this application, you're going have to find another way. Otherwise wish you luck finding someone.
Speaker: Yeah. It was like, it it got really excruciating, like a pseudo. i mean, they were it's so obvious they're like trying to, you know, um ask questions that were going to, you know, pretty potentially, you know, might trip up on or whatever.
Speaker: And I just wasn't having it, you know. Yeah, I've done those kind of stuff psychology tests before. They aren't fun.
Speaker: No, no, no, no. At all. and Anyway. Yeah. What else do you have, Mr. Paul? I've got i've got here. there There's are just interesting the kind of level, the sheer level of of um discomfort.
Speaker: You know, for some people, it's just discomfort. For me, it's physiological. I get really wound up. Like I could feel like a knot in my stomach with this kind of stuff.
Speaker: It really winds me up. I have to psych myself up to even ah start a form filling exercise, especially when I know it's going to be quite long. And I have to like really kind of try and be disciplined, like come and pull, you know, if like, so I have to psych myself up.
Speaker: There was a lady, ah red she was on Reddit. She said something quite interesting. She said she was going to she's probably going to retire quite soon. um And she said, like most people in her position, the idea of never having to fill out a timesheet again is a massive thing for her when she retires. I was going to say timesheets.
Speaker: Fucking timesheets. hate them. I hate those things. Yeah, I can't do time time sheets. Okay, I'm not the only one then.
Speaker: i was yeah I was lucky because usually freelance, so I would just pretend not that I'd forgotten to do them or just didn't do them. And people generally would like, oh, Paul hasn't done a time sheet. It's like, okay, and they step over it and it's okay.
Speaker: I could get around it. i would I would basically just guess ah how much time I'd spent on yeah something. And then I would go, well, I know that I'm probably underestimating, so let's times that by two. And then I then ah i double the whole thing.
Speaker: and then i go And then I feel sort of guilty. And then I kind of like, and then I kind of shave some of that off. So it isn't quite double.
Speaker: Yeah, that's what I would do. Yeah. It would be like creative. I would just like, oh, if it looks right, then it's good enough. Right. Looks and sounds right.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Fucking timesheets. I've worked at agencies on a freelance basis where they would spend um the first hour every morning, especially on Mondays, with like, um you know, um organizing people's time management software, who's doing what and when.
Speaker: And by the time they finished, most of the morning would gone. Right. Yeah. I think that's fairly. And hardly any conversation at all about how they're going to do it.
Speaker: who And, um you know, best practice, you know, who's going to do what, any of the good stuff. Everything was like, but everything's become so mechanized.
Speaker: Yeah. It's the process has become more important than the actually the output. That's when you evenly know that. Even in agencies, creative agencies, the process has become king.
Speaker: That's when you know when an agency is struggling for money, that's yeah that's when they start looking at the hours under a yeah microscope.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I mean, generally in Italy, the margins are probably smaller than they are in New York or London. So, you know, in Italy, ah margins are tighter and, you know, they're, but I think, I do think there's also a case of whether they need to or not.
Speaker: This is a sort of kind of comfort involved in the people that are running the company that, oh, let's give them a time management software they all have to fill out, you know, and there's some comfort to be had from that.
Speaker: But actually what it takes away is it, what what it creates is a, is like a very mechanical system process orientated. Right. All right. So before we get on to rate ADHD and paperwork, have you got any any any other last?
Speaker: No, I think that, well, host oh ah there's only like sometimes you get glitchy stuff. Have you ever had that thing, like especially on um on your, if you're feeling out of form on your cell phone, and you've got to press a button to like submit something or to go to the next page, and you caught and there's like something that's hiding it.
Speaker: like partially hiding it and you can't scroll down. Like desperately trying to scroll down to like ah submit ah next page or whatever. And you can't.
Speaker: And it's hidden. there Yeah. Damn you lazy coders. Lazy coders. Bastards. All right. That's me. That's me on form filling.
Speaker: Let's yeah. Let's go. Right. Right. Things.
Speaker: Is it a dopamine hit or is it a burnout thing, Paul? It's a dopamine hit is zero. An absolute zero. this is This is the easiest score that I've ever had to give anything in the fixed 58 years of my life.
Speaker: Of my life. Of my life. i will I will actually be a bit more generous and give it like a two because I do get a little hit after I've finished filling out the forms.
Speaker: found ADHD. Like there's a little bit of pat on the back. ah Okay, but i I like that I finished it. so I did find some ADHDers on Reddit who left in the comments that they actually quite enjoy doing forms.
Speaker: Oh, no, that there will be people out there who, o yeah, love it, love it. Sometimes the mechanical things, like I like drawing maps.
Speaker: I like drawing technical drawings. I love that. So I guess it's a similar thing if that's your, the cut your jib. I can see it. I can see, like yeah, I can see that your jib will be cut.
Speaker: For forms. um All right. ah Burnout. What's your burnout, mark Mr. West? I'm going to go like, I mean, it's high.
Speaker: is i mean, I would say it's like eight. i mean, it's not the absolute worst, but it is right up there. Right. that's this Yeah, there's got to be wiggle room, hasn't there, for like other stuff that's going to make you burn out more, isn't there? So, okay, I'm going to give it eight and a half.
Speaker: All right, here we go. with Nice. All right. With that, let's jump into the tractor. We'll make our way over to Alexandra's Inn.
Speaker: pounted it Which I believe is haunted. So I've been told. um
Speaker: Yeah, right. Well, we're at Alexandra's Horted Inn. Yes. um And just the looking around. ah it's It still doesn't have a name, by the way.
Speaker: so ah Okay. I almost think that that's like part of its charm now. It's it's like yeah it like the yeah nameless inn. um Anyway, she's left a note ah because we were talking about cults.
Speaker: Last week. Yes. Red. Red. and ah she she And she said on on YouTube, i would I would be the worst member, I guess, because ah because because obedience isn't my style at all.
Speaker: Which, you know, I kind of get, right? I'm very pro equality. So thinking of that structure is this disturbing. That was one of the things I hated in professional kitchens. I can understand how people get into this, though.
Speaker: um Now, because she was ah chef. I believe. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah. And i I was talking to her a little bit a while ago, and I was saying how how kitchens can also be a cult in go in them themselves. So you you might have a a charismatic head chef, you know,
Speaker: like some Some restaurants have like and a named chef there. yeah um ah you know And you have this kind of... you know ah is it is And they do employ quite a lot of culty...
Speaker: behaviors working in them. you know there There is a high exit cost. like you know they they they don't want you leave There's a high entry cost. You have to be good enough. yeah Especially if you're chasing Michelin stars. like um um There's one...
Speaker: so got one a chef who's actually he actually taught Gordon Ramsay Marco Pierre White he had three Michelin stars he's he's given them up recently since I'm not interested anymore just became this ridiculous thing that he had to chase you know and that's and it's the cult in that is is it's the cult of the Michelin star you know Yeah, chasing that. Chasing some kind of you know man-made ideal of what you know good cooking is about.
Speaker: Yeah. um So thanks, Alexandra, for that. um she is our She is our postmaster general. um Yes, official. and if And that leads us to you saying...
Speaker: you've Me saying your feedback is vital to us. ah We read all the comments and we might read out yours on a future podcast like this one from Hemibrat in Canada, Martin.
Speaker: Do you want to read yourself? Yeah, yeah. So um that was her comment on on ah on YouTube um about cults. It says, I love that you reached out to Daniela Young, one of the world's,
Speaker: Top most top minds on cults, in my humble opinion. um Yeah, so that was that was when I did like a little brief chat with with a cult scholar, um which kind of formed ah the backbone of the of last week's cult episode. yeah if yeah have If you haven't watched it, go and read it.
Speaker: And then she says some nice things, which you should read the entire comment on on youtube because um she says a lot of really good stuff and then she finishes off by saying you guys are awesome thank you for speaking on this topic there's certainly not enough info or education for neurodivergent people out there yeah you are welcome carol um All right.
Speaker: That's the post post bag. So, yeah. what what Let's talk about next week's episode. The next episode next week, yes. We've got about that we've got a a guest coming back. Tina, our guest is coming back for part two because she she rocked it so much on the first first episode that we've got her back.
Speaker: And we ran out of time because there was so much that we wanted to say, or especially she wanted to say. Right. And we had technical issues at the start. So we actually ended up recording halfway through our slot hour, belotted time.
Speaker: Yeah. So she's back. Tina, bless her. She was doing our podcast as a guest in her ah lunch break. I know. That's nuts. She sacrificed her lunch break for us.
Speaker: I know. How good is that? yeah So that just leaves me to say that ADHD is delivered fresh every Tuesday day to all providers of fine podcasts. Please subscribe to the pod and rate us most amazing.
Speaker: And feel free to correspond at will in the comments. But wait, there's more if you wish to see our beautiful, beautiful faces. Then Sally Forth to the YouTubes and the TikTok. Or Sally Fields. You can also pick up a quill and email us at adhdville at gmail.com but in the meantime be fucking kind to yourself and i beseech you fellow adhders fare thee well with gladness of that that
