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Antagonist
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The pain continues.
We discuss the devastating end to the Charge's season and give our expansion thoughts. We also jinxed the Habs (you're welcome).
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Transcript
Return of Beata and Burner's discussion on Elite Suns Brain
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey guys, we're back with another really depressing episode! Did miss us? Here we go again!
00:00:17
Speaker
them themmo see hey guys we're back with another really depressing episode who did you miss us here we go again So welcome to episode Robi Yerventi of Elite Suns Brain.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm Beata. I'm joined by the artist formerly known as Twitter user at Ericsson's Burner. How's it going? So bad. When has it been going well, you know? No.
00:00:48
Speaker
It's actually good. It's actually like, so this year we had our Olympics episode. And then we had our playoff preview. That was the one the one episode where we were really happy.
00:00:59
Speaker
And then we had our depressing Ottawa Senators post-mortem before we even had got the chance to record any episodes during the playoffs because they got swept.
Ottawa Senators' playoff sweep and fan emotions
00:01:10
Speaker
And now here we are.
00:01:12
Speaker
To discuss our other team losing in possibly an even more heartbreaking fashion. Yeah, I guess that's always the question of like, is it better to have gotten swept or had hope I think I genuinely don't know. Recency bias would say it's worse to have hope.
00:01:33
Speaker
But... i feel like it's weird because, like, going into the playoffs, I cared more about the result of the Sens series. um Sorry, like, the Sens have, like, what, a 23-year head start on the charge for me, you know? and it felt like there was more at stake and everything.
00:01:54
Speaker
But... i I think I'm more upset about the charge losing and have had a harder time processing that and like...
00:02:06
Speaker
dealing with all the emotions around it which is like, you know, we'll get into it. it's It's a testament to how well the charge played during that playoff run, that they were able to get me that that invested um and make me so upset. It's really cool that women's hockey can hurt me that much now, but it really hurts.
00:02:26
Speaker
So funny. I also feel like Maybe it's because the city of Ottawa did not have time who get behind the Sens as much. Like, I don't know. but I just feel like it was such like, I don't know, like, I was like, oh, my God, the city is rooting for them. Like, we're all behind you. And then it was just so sad. Like, I feel like everyone in the city was sad.
Ottawa Charge fan support and playoff attendance
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, and especially for me, i live in Montreal, but I went to Ottawa for, like, most of the playoffs, um or at least, like, from game four of round one onward, I was in Ottawa.
00:03:03
Speaker
And seeing the contrast, man, like... People in Montreal like the Victoire. They're like, oh yeah, it's so cool that they're, you know, good, that they have Pune and everything. Yeah, I'll show up to a game from time to time. They're not intense the way that like Ottawa Charge fans are, you know? Like you talk to the average Victoire fan and they can name two maybe up to like five players on the team, which is fine. But then you go to Ottawa Charge game and everyone on the bus is in like fun costumes. You like I was striking up conversations with random people on the bus to the CTC and people were telling me their favorite players. And it was like, you know, random players that people outside of Ottawa don't know. And it's just like the city has embraced the team in a way that I don't think any other
00:03:52
Speaker
PWHL City has and it was like extra heartbreaking to see our team lose when it feels like we deserve it as a fan base.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah, like, I do think I was like, this is our, like, God-given right. Like, we should have won it. Like, I don't know. It's also, like, I mean, I think we talked about it a bit. I can't remember. But, like, attendance-wise, like, we won the attendance cup. Let's just say that. Oh, and we've won it every single year that the PWHL existed. list did yeah So, like...
00:04:28
Speaker
I don't know. it feels so bad. because it's like we are definitely the most hurt. No one cares as much, I don't think. Literally, no fanbase could have been as hurt by this as we were.
00:04:41
Speaker
yeah it's actually just like so messed up. i I don't know if we want to get to it later, though. Some people were not upset enough. Some Charged Wins weren't, but we can talk to that we can talk about that a bit.
00:04:55
Speaker
We're going to do some good old-fashioned gatekeeping later.
Ottawa Charge playoff recap and emotional journey
00:04:59
Speaker
um Yeah, so what we decided to do is we're going to go game by game, because even though the charge made a very deep run, there were not that many games, all in all. And so we would like to to do a quick recap. First of all, if you'll remember, Parge went into this series...
00:05:16
Speaker
Not with a ton of hope. um The charge during the regular season did not look like a team that should make the playoffs and certainly not like a team that should go far in the playoffs.
00:05:27
Speaker
So we were not super optimistic about their chances. And game one, I don't remember that much about game one in Boston, except like they got pretty thoroughly outplayed and they lost by one goal, but it was like, probably should have been more.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, I was saying before we started recording, for some reason, in the Boston series has been like basically wiped from my mind. And especially like game, i don't, I, you know what, it doesn't even matter though. Who cares? But yeah, they lost apparently, allegedly.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, well, and after game one, it was kind of like, this is not going to last long. Like, you know, it's going to be a sweep or maybe it'll be four games or something. Like, this charge playoff run is is not going to be fun. But game two, Ottawa wins it I feel like that third goal was very last minute. might have been an empty netter.
00:06:22
Speaker
I just checked the scores on, like, the PWHL website, and I was like, I feel like that was a one-goal game. I don't think the games were... um I don't think any games were like won by that many goals.
00:06:34
Speaker
But yeah, so Ottawa wins that one and it's like, oh, cool. We get a second home game. How fun. At that point, I booked my train ticket to Ottawa. I got my ticket. I was like, really hope I don't watch the charge get eliminated. But monkeys fall. I hope I don't watch the charge get eliminated on home ice. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
But, you know, oh it wouldn't be that bad because I didn't expect much from them. It would be nice to kind of be there to send them off. um So, yeah, they would they win game two Game three.
00:07:06
Speaker
Another 2-1 win this time for Ottawa. And that was the one with the hilarious ah of a line and goal where she just like banks it off the boards and then it goes in off of Frankel.
00:07:17
Speaker
Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. was just hilarious. That's like, you know, the game is tied right toward the end. You're like kind of like, oh, we're headed to overtime. um You know, this is not going to be fun. here we go. And oh, never mind.
00:07:33
Speaker
We got like the flukiest goal and now we're winning the game. Cool. We deserve. Like we deserve the fluky goals. i think. You know, we've been through a lot.
00:07:45
Speaker
Mm hmm. Oh. Yeah, exactly. And it's also like, after watching the Sens, you're like, finally, we get to cheer for the kind of bad team that gets the like insane bounces. Especially, I'm at this point, hate watching the Habs going like, how the fuck are they doing this? And I'm like, ah, now I'm the one cheering for the team that gets these lucky breaks. How much how fun is that?
00:08:07
Speaker
the so yeah, then game four, I was at game four. That one was crazy because the charge took a two nothing lead. And i remember sitting there being like, wow, you can lead by more than one goal. Like, this is crazy.
00:08:24
Speaker
This is so crazy, guys. I didn't know you were allowed to do this. we like We've won the series, basically. um And then there's a sequence of, like I felt like one minute or something, where suddenly the fleet just scored three goals all at once. yeah So it's like, what the hell? Do you remember that? I thought it would be over at that. like I think everyone did. But I was like, oh, this game's over. That sucks.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, like, oh, wow, weird. um But no, they come back to tie up. Game goes to overtime. And Michaela Cava wins it. And we get to watch them advance to the finals on home ice.
00:09:00
Speaker
At this point, like, we're also, we have, like, several days off because we're waiting for the fraudulent results of Minnesota versus Montreal. ah um That bullshit series.
00:09:14
Speaker
And, yeah, life is great.
Ottawa's playoff series against Montreal: Hope and disappointment
00:09:17
Speaker
We're in the finals. How fun. Also, at this point, I'm watching Minnesota-Montreal and I'm, like, low-key. we could win the cup. i Yeah, I think I honestly didn't watch much of that because I was like, I don't, I don't know until the very end. I didn't believe. so I was like, I don't even want to invest in that. But yeah, I truly think that looking back, I was like, well, this is amazing. Also, um i had not I did not myself go on late Reddit. But one of my friends was telling me that they were on like Fleet Reddit, I guess to embrace the haterism of it all. But apparently Fleet fans very sweetly were doing that thing where they were like, how did this happen? Like, how could this have happened? Like, we were so much better. How did this happen? And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's that's nice. I'm happy that we did that to you a little bit.
00:10:10
Speaker
Well, literally, it was like, this is an extremely fraudulent team. Like, I think every Charge fan was watching that series going, yeah, we had no business winning this. Like, honestly, if this was a seven game series, I don't even think we would have won it, you know? Like, yeah absolutely no business winning it. Just got, like, insane lucky bounces somehow, like...
00:10:31
Speaker
you know, yeah, scammed our way into the final. what of league is this? Whatever, it's benefiting my team. I don't care. And then, yeah, at this point, though, I'm watching Minnesota and Montreal, and especially Montreal. I'm like, wait, since when is Montreal this bad? Like, they looked so bad.
00:10:50
Speaker
At least, I don't know, in the games that I saw in the first round, I was like, what the hell? Maybe we can actually beat these guys. Like, I don't know. i was I was kind of bracing myself for another, like, loss to the fleet, or not to the fleet, to the Frost, because I was like, apparently that's the only team that can win the cup here. Yeah.
00:11:07
Speaker
whatever But then yeah, when when Montreal won, was like, low-key. Maybe Ottawa does have a chance here. We beat them last year, all of that. um So that's when the hope sets in. It's the hope that kills you.
00:11:20
Speaker
who Yeah. and Do you want to talk about what happened in Game 1? No. Okay. um wanted to double-check that this was in fact Game 1. Okay.
00:11:33
Speaker
So Game 1... I don't really, I think the most that happened was in like third period and then overtime, but I don't really remember the first two periods. i don't know. See, what I remember is the charge were the better team. And this was the first game, all playoffs, except maybe game four of the first round. But like I was at that game. So it's, you know, your perspective is a little bit skewed there. um But I was like, this was the first game of the playoffs where Ottawa was so obviously the better team.
00:12:02
Speaker
So it's like, holy shit, like, we're winning the cup. Because we're actually the better team now. Yeah. And then we're... What happened? I'm trying to remember the sequence of what happened. Okay.
00:12:15
Speaker
and we Did it get tied first? or No, no, no. Yes, no, Charge were winning late in the third. Yeah. Also, Breanne Jenner misses a fucking empty net. McKinnon-esque.
00:12:27
Speaker
Like, as in he was literally empty. Not like McKinnon, but like... like the timeline moment of like if she just buries that empty netter literally it changes everything that was so but you know what the like a part of my mind which was like guys it might be my fault maybe i did it but like i remember i watched it and i was like honestly not that big a deal like it's basically over anyway like we've been dominating the game you know oh it was not over there were like well yeah and then
00:12:59
Speaker
With less than a minute left, it's like 21 seconds on the clock or something. Gabby Hughes, there's like ah an awkward collision with Laura Stacy against the boards. Right. Like completely accidental. Obviously not malicious.
00:13:12
Speaker
Stacy is obviously in a ton of pain. Ends up, it's probably, probably like dislocated like her knee or something because she ended up
Game 1 Controversies and social media narratives
00:13:20
Speaker
being okay, thankfully. But yeah, she's in a ton of pain. No penalty on the call, but on the next face off, they tie it.
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, it was weird, too, because obviously, like, she was, like, ah like you say, like, in a ton of pain. So, like, it was, like, a big break in time. So, like, i felt like it was, like, okay, like, we are having some, like, momentum or whatever, like, we can put this game away. But then obviously, like, big break. So having to, like, reset on the face off and everything. Yeah.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah. So it goes to overtime. And then the thing is, like, yeah, Pune... was This is the one where Pune banked the puck off of Abbey Rock's face. And it was just, like, the weirdest bounce. And you're just like, how does that even go in? But of course, because it's Pune and over time, you get the narrative of, like... Laura Stacy got injured and then Puley avenged her and it was oh it was so frustrating to have that go for the other team you know know and like not like it looked extremely painful Laura Stacy I hope she's okay like I hope everything's okay she was out for overtime so like the whole like if she was still not there would feel like that narrative works better it's like oh my god she's there injured and Puley does this but it's like she's she's on the ice though like what do you mean avenged she's right there and it's like I'm sure that like
00:14:36
Speaker
i' i i'm I hope this wasn't the case. I hope she just organically felt better. i know, like, whatever goes on, like, I hope she didn't get, like, some, like, mix of, like, some pain meds that would be bad or whatever. I hope she's genuinely okay. But, like, she was on the ice. Like...
00:14:52
Speaker
She was fine. I will not tell people what you texted me during that game because I don't want you to get cancelled. But it should also be noted, alright? should be noted that earlier in that game, at several points, Laura Stacy was diving all over the ice as she tends to do. i have been calling her a diver for two years now.
00:15:16
Speaker
She does this. And then also, I thought it was interesting that Montreal hockey fans suddenly think it's inappropriate to call someone a diver when they're riding in pain on the ice and then they get back onto the ice not long after. Interesting, considering what happened in Montreal a few years ago to a different team. Yeah, which like, I don't know. It's also...
00:15:43
Speaker
Like, i I don't know what the... That's the thing. It's like, what did they do to her back there? Like, how did she come back out? Because, like, there's no faking. Like, she was genuine. I think she was, like, shaking in pain. So I was like, okay. Oh, yeah. It was like yeah like... I was like, why are the why the cameras on her? Like, please go to a commercial break. It was so scary. Yeah. But then it was so... I was, like, so confused. I was like, who let her back here? Like, I don't know. Yeah.
00:16:06
Speaker
and think it was probably dislocated. Because usually once you, like, pop it back in, Yeah. ah yeah Yeah, I'm sure you're right. but I was just like, damn, probably just take the day. i don't know. Good for her. Like, that's amazing.
00:16:18
Speaker
i hope she's okay. yeah. But yeah, um the the one thing is, here's a lesson just not to use social media, guys. Unfortunately, my angry tweets calling her a diver from like the first period of that game were being shown to people after the game ended, and then people were getting mad at me thinking I was calling her a diver over that incident. um Which, like to be clear, if anyone had any like ah got the wrong idea, saw any of those tweets, thought I was calling her a diver over ah her genuine pain,
00:16:50
Speaker
To be clear, I do think Laura Stacey is a diver, and I don't think she was faking that injury. Honestly, if she was, like, call the Academy. Like, that was... Yeah, like, honestly, I respect it. Good for her. yeah Like, it was Tim Schutzler watching? Honestly, take notes. No, but yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
Anyway, so that that one was, like... I don't know. i feel like the narratives just always worked against us. It was like, that's a beautiful story. Wow. It just happened to be against us.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah, we're like, it's a real life heated rivalry because Prune was on the ice when Stacey got injured and she was obviously worried. And look, I'm sure it's very moving if you are Big 12 fan or a neutral fan. To me, I was just pissed off. I was like, I don't give a shit.
00:17:38
Speaker
They're from the other team. Yeah. I refuse to be moved by that. And yeah, I was just like to have that whole narrative go against us. But then like, you know, as Charge fans, it's like, it's a frustrating way to lose, but to come out of that game being like, well, you know, we were the better team for the whole game. We almost won it. Like, just, just keep at it, you know, and surely we'll get the next one. Right.
00:18:06
Speaker
maybe we didn't get the next one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was the one where the charge were slightly worse in game two. I thought that was, well, and that that was their worst game for the most part. um Obviously, like the very end of game four.
00:18:20
Speaker
I'll take that out because that doesn't count. I blocked it from my memory. But yeah, game two was not great, but the charge weren't like badly outplayed. It goes to overtime and there's a missed call.
00:18:34
Speaker
I mean, like, there was bad defensive coverage, but also, like, the most blatant tripping call you've ever seen in your life gets missed and ends the Vic 12 score. Yeah.
00:18:45
Speaker
Which, like, I wasn't keeping track of, like, did we have a missed call, blah, blah, blah. And I know that, like... I don't know the narrative ah it's like oh let them play but I was like uh it's annoying but yeah
Game 3 Highlights and final playoff heartbreak
00:19:00
Speaker
and then at that point I was like because I'm used to games I'm used to series of seven right so i was like what's what what happens like now like is this is it over Yeah. ah
00:19:15
Speaker
So I bought game three tickets, like, you know, the moment they went on sale, I was like, I'm going to be at game three. um Obviously, you feel a little different about that game when you go in being like, maybe my team is going to get swept to literally my least favorite team.
00:19:30
Speaker
ah That would not be fun. And the friends who went to that game with me can attest that i i was not enjoying myself for that game. I was very stressed. I was staring into space. It was very tense. I cannot tell you what happened in that game ah except for...
00:19:50
Speaker
the Rebecca Leslie goal at the end which was like so beautiful but also I was like what's like how did that go with like it looked weird I don't know if that's the idea yeah it was just like it wasn't pretty and also no one really thought it was going in and then who I think I don't know if that's it but like people were just kind of like okay yay like you know I feel like it was like wow I can't believe that one went in yeah yeah So weird. And yeah, with less than a minute left. So, you know, thankfully this time they hang on for that last minute. yeah And um they, well, because the Montreal scored the first goal and then I forget who tied it, but the charge tied it fairly late. And then also Rebecca Leslie got the last minute winner. Man, for some reason during these playoffs, the Sens were, so the Sens, the charge were so good at like getting the game winner in the last minute of regulation and not sending the game to overtime, which I really appreciate.
00:20:44
Speaker
yeah i ah also like that was obviously just such a beautiful moment auto zone i know yeah and you kind of leave going like if nothing else we got that moment you know like what what a great moment but of course like with a five game series you're like wait we're undefeated at home like literally we were the next one and then it's game five yeah yeah Yeah, so, and again, up until this point, like, it's just so, like, it's the way that they lost that's so heartbreaking because, like...
00:21:17
Speaker
Again, they didn't really belong in the playoffs. They did not deserve to win round one at all. But then they get to the finals and it's like, okay, actually they fully deserve to win that series. Like they were the better team and it wasn't particularly, okay, it was fairly close, but like they were very obviously the better team. I was watching all these games, like low key, did the fleet deserve to win the cup? Like what?
00:21:41
Speaker
Everyone told me the fleet were fraudulent, but i don't know. I watched Ottawa play them and Montreal, and like I know which team gave us more trouble. Yeah. ah Yeah, that's the thing. like Also, something... like I honestly view Game 4 as a one-goal game.
00:21:57
Speaker
Technically, it wasn't, but like it was. so like i don't know Yeah. And again, Game 4... It was the way that they lost.
00:22:08
Speaker
Again, it was like... I don't know if if any if there's any good way to lose that game. But i was there again. Because you know after after the high of game three, I was like, I'm good luck. I need to be there And the Charge were the better team for most of that game. like That's going to be forgotten because of the score. I haven't heard people mention it. But like the Charge were the better team. um And then there's this weird goal in the second period
00:22:40
Speaker
Where, like, Abby Rock comes down boards. I don't even think... Like, I think it's a line change or something, right? Like, she's not even trying to shoot the puck on net. I think she's trying to pass it to a teammate or just Dinn or something like that. Savalainen is covering her. And the puck...
00:22:59
Speaker
uh gets to and like Rory Gilday is between Sabalainen and Gwyneth Phillips right and I see what she was trying to do right there was like a saucer pass going towards her and she tries to like bat it down with her stick and ends up like tipping it perfectly and the puck just goes in which like man Chris Phillips asks hi yeah That's the thing. it's like a beautiful, it's a beautiful like net front presence just for the wrong team a little bit.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like at the end of it, once it became clear that that was going to stand as the game winner, I was like, okay, actually, it is kind of hilarious that both Ottawa hockey teams have now scored the cup winning goal on their own net.
00:23:46
Speaker
Like that's a little funny. Yeah, the funniest thing, I think that they were so obviously trying to make that not happen too, because at the end it was like clear, okay, like you're losing. They were still giving it their all. I was like, they just don't want that to be the game winner. But unfortunately, it was written in the stars. And also, i was thinking the opposite. I was like, look, if we have to lose this, at least let the funny stats stand. Yeah, like that's really funny. and We lost to ourselves, honestly. So it's fine.
00:24:13
Speaker
literally look ottawa hockey you see that you're losing and you're like fuck it i'm gonna lose on my terms that's the thing it's like how an you know in like soccer it's like an own goal doesn't actually it is counted as an own goal but like in hockey it obviously just goes to whoever we should get rid of that we should just make own goals own goals so like technically speaking the game winner was scored by an ottawa charge player and then we just don't look more into it Yeah.
00:24:39
Speaker
So yeah, anyways, rewinding a little bit. After this goal goes in, you know, obviously, like, just, just, like, the worst goal to give up in an elimination game, you know? Like, so demoralizing. But also, it's the second period, you know, the charge, like, the charge in that series had lost every game where they scored first and won the one game where they scored second. So it was like, okay, maybe we're fine, right? It's fine. The charge are playing really well. Like, just keep at it. And like...
00:25:07
Speaker
When you watch a lot of hockey, at a certain point, like sometimes your team is getting so many chances that you just know that they're not going to win, you know?
00:25:18
Speaker
Like it just reaches a point where you're like, ah this isn't happening. And for me, it was a it was one particular chance where Wozniฤ missed the net.
00:25:29
Speaker
And I was just like, I had the most like sinking feeling just going, this game is over. Yeah, I honestly, just like as soon as it became like 2-0, I was like, okay, it's like over. Because me, it was before that. It was literally 1-0. No, it was 1-0, but it was just like, right after that goal, the charge was so good, and they were just putting everything on net, and there was just one particular chance that I was just like...
00:25:56
Speaker
it It was like game two in Carolina between the Sens and the Hurricanes, where at a certain point when Timmy misses so many chances, you're just kind of like, this game is, we're not going to win this. Like the hockey gods don't want us to win this. And I just, I just distinctly remember having that moment where like my stomach dropped and I was like, this game is over. We're done.
00:26:15
Speaker
Like Montreal has won the cup basically. And then, yeah, it was like late in the third that that the goals just started coming. Yeah, which like that's what I'm saying is that like those ones don't even count because it's like the writing was already on the wall. Like who cares? Like it's like not like they were going to win. if it Like it was a one goal game.
00:26:35
Speaker
Let's be honest. Yeah. And then yeah, after that fourth goal, like i I couldn't stay. Like I ended up leaving. I remember turning to my mom and I was like, I'm going to start crying if if we don't leave right now. Like we need to leave. I cannot be here.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's so fair. was watching with a friend and think after the, I think after the goal to make it to nothing, I was like, can I leave now? Mm-hmm. And I was like, or no, to be finished. was like, oh, do you want to stay? And I was like, okay. And i I was just like miserable. i was bad company. Mm-hmm.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, I did not stay to watch the end of the game and I have no regrets. I know that there's discourse about whether that makes you a bad hockey fan, but like, no joke, I was gonna cry. Like, I've never been that like sad at a hockey game before. I've been angry at hockey games. I've never been that like, just sad.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's hard because it was like, I don't know, it was just such a fun run, which like, it was also just so unexpected, so fun. Like I say, like everyone really rallied behind him. so And it's hard when no one else, no one else is that sad except for like your own fan base.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's really demoralizing or it's really, like, upsetting when everyone around you is like, oh, a Canadian team wins either way. Like, I'm happy no matter what happens. And I'm like, no, I'm actually crying over this. Like, I don't want to talk about it. I'm so upset. And everybody else is just kind of like, oh, but aren't you happy for Pule?
00:28:09
Speaker
Which, like, No, but really not. Like, what? I wanted my team to win. The fanboys have booed her for no reason. Like, Honestly, we need, like, Charge fans, listen, we need that energy back. Why am hearing and seeing so much? Oh, I'm just happy either way. Oh, at least, like, I got to see Pune win. No. Remember when we booed her for no reason?
00:28:33
Speaker
Get back to this. Like... I mean, we're mostly joking, but like also truly, i i believe in treating women's hockey as a sport. And I think that a huge part of sports is haterism. And honestly, I think it is like infantilizing players to act like we all have to be friends and support everyone. Like there was just a lot of this kind of stuff during the finals, especially when people were calling Stacey a diver. Again, not over the actual injury, over other things, right? Where it was like, Oh, why can't you just support both teams and both players and it's like, and then all the players and it's like, well, that's just not how hockey works. like I think it's actually misogynistic to act like we can't treat them like athletes and can't be like, really into our own team and cheering for our own team, you know.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the exact opposite of like, I think we've referenced i think we referenced this Tumblr-ask like last episode or something, but it's like, oh, so you just think that the better team, but it's like the exact opposite. It's like, oh, so you just think that like, I don't know, like, I don't even know how to phrase it but you know what I mean? It's like, oh, like you just think that your team. You think it's okay to root against the team just because you personally dislike them? Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
It's like, wow, you don't think that it's normal to just love both teams? And it's like, oh, like what are you talking about? yeah And like, obviously, i
Dynamics of women's hockey fandom and PWHL expansion
00:30:00
Speaker
i don't know, there's there's a lot of this kind of discourse. And I feel like a lot of it turns into like, why does women's hockey fandom have to be exactly like men's hockey fandom? And I agree with that.
00:30:12
Speaker
for like as a general principle, like, yeah, women's hockey fandom can be different and better than men's hockey fandom. I just disagree with the idea that, like, rivalries are a thing that we need to do away with, you know? I know. It's interesting because it's also, like, if you think that's only a men's hockey phenomenon, I urge you to watch any other sport in the entire world. Like, I don't know if there's any sport where people are like, wow, so you don't just, like, support all the teams? Like, even women's sports, like,
00:30:42
Speaker
WNBA fans like their own team. Like, women's soccer fans root for their own team. Like, I don't, you know what i mean? So, yeah. It's, like, i think it's honestly, it's in part, I think, fairly because, like, the league is so, still so new. So it's, like, oh, like, you want to just support the fact that there's a league in general. And it's, like, I guess that's fair. Like, I totally see where that comes from.
00:31:07
Speaker
But at the same time, i do love haters. So it's hard. And sometimes I do have to remind myself that like, unlike most PWHL fans, I had like 10 years of being a general women's hockey fan pre-PWHL. And like, obviously I did have teams that I supported, but I wasn't as into them as I'm into the charge, right? Because like, they didn't have fan bases really, you know? and so I definitely had like 10 years of just kind of going like, yeah, I root for the individual players and I'm happy for whoever wins and, you know, it's all wholesome and fun. And I'm very much like over that and ready to be a hater. And maybe I have to understand that some people aren't quite there yet. yet oh
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny too, though, because i feel like the players have true animosity in some cases. like I don't think the players are like, no, like support all of us. like um So that's what's also interesting. The charge players were crying on the ice. I know' like I don't think that they were just happy for the growth of the sport, if I'm being honest.
00:32:13
Speaker
the but yeah I don't know it's just like interesting because it's also like and i it's interesting also because like I feel like in like for example I think that like the women's hockey that most people were watching before the PWHL was like Olympics and like it made total sense to be like maybe it's because it's a country thing but it made total complete sense to be like no actually f the U.S. women's team or f the Canadian women's team depending on obviously your country or obviously like other countries and stuff But, like, I feel like it was so expected to just be, like, I obviously am not just happy for all them all. So it's interesting that, like, I don't know why. Maybe just because that's an Olympics thing. But, like, I know that we all have it in us.
00:32:53
Speaker
Maybe it's just the fact that especially Canadians have loved Marie-Philippe Penne for so long. Yeah. There's an expectation that we like all the Canadian players, especially her. i don't know. i also have this. Don't do for that, guys.
00:33:08
Speaker
oh I also have this theory that I do think a lot of newer women's hockey fans I mean, okay, a lot of people that I've met who are new women's hockey fans um didn't like sports at all before getting into women's hockey and i think a lot of them maybe hated sports in this like very kind of performative leftist way where it's like sports are, you know, toxic masculinity and it's a, you know, straight white male activity. And then they've gotten into women's sports. And instead of being like, oh, okay, sports can actually be fun if you take all the bigotry out of it.
00:33:42
Speaker
Well, not all of it, but you know, a good amount of it, right? um Instead of saying that they're like, I watch sports in a more like enlightened way. I watch it as reality TV. I'm here for like the player drama. I'm not a, I'm not like a sports fan, women's hockey. But then it's like, it's a, it's like a woke way of saying women's hockey isn't real sports, you know? yeah um I don't know. That's just, it's an attitude that I've noticed a lot. And that's kind of my theory about where it comes from.
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, i don't it's it's I think that makes a lot of sense because it is true. I think that like very, like very cool that like a lot of people who are especially i feel like a lot of the charge because I mostly know charge fans like weren't really in any sports before and like that's very awesome and cool like good for them like it's cool to get into sports.
00:34:27
Speaker
But yeah, <unk> it's interesting to be like, don't worry, guys, I fixed sports, though. Like, I'm here and I fixed it this time. It's like, no, like, there's a reason why people have rooting interests. I don't know, like, it makes it more interesting and fun. Maybe that is just like the enlightened way to watch sports, though. It just truly is not for me. so Yeah, and like, I, you know, I don't mind when people watch sports that way, whether it's men's hockey, women's hockey, whatever. My problem is when I, you know, opened up my Facebook and got recommended a bunch of posts being like, I can't believe that there are people in the crowd who booed the Big 12 players when they were announcing the st starting lineups at the CTC. And it's like, get over yourself.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, you know what? it's It feels and like the worst way possible a lot like like the people who are criticizing it. Like I feel like that would be like a fair criticism if this was like girls hockey. Like if the players were nine years old, it would be don't boo the opposing lineup. That's weird. They're like children. But it's like these are grown as adults. Like they can take a little booing.
00:35:36
Speaker
Well, yeah, and like several of these players have spent their entire adult lives begging people to care about their sport. Like some of these girls were in the CWHL before the NWHL existed, right? Which turned into the PHF, right? Like they've been around for so long begging people to give a shit about their sport and to treat them like athletes. And they finally get to be treated like professional athletes. And i just don't think that we're necessarily respecting that and like you know doing them a favor when we go oh we're all just having fun like don't get too intense about your rooting interest or your rivalries like you're being too mean to these players like no they want to be treated like athletes yeah it's also like they're like
00:36:25
Speaker
e Again, adults, they can take obviously nothing like awful. Like you shouldn't like, I don't know, just be a normal person. But like, yeah, they can take booing the starting lineup.
00:36:36
Speaker
No one cares. The other thing is that you're almost like depriving. I'm sure like, you know how like there's a ton of like men's hockey players who are like, yeah, I love to be booed. Like when I'm, it means I'm getting to them. It means that I'm, you know what I mean? It's like you're depriving them Some of them may be the ability to have the haters and fuel them.
00:36:54
Speaker
Well, honestly, Britta Curl very openly lets the haterism fuel her, right? like Yeah. and Because she's the only women's hockey player that gets booed for good reason, for the record, for like, you know, off-ice reasons.
00:37:08
Speaker
But like, you can boo people for stupid reasons too, and they'll enjoy it. Yeah, like, I can't, like, I'm trying to imagine a player who gets booed for being too good, genuinely being like, it really hurt my feelings that they booed like...
00:37:24
Speaker
That really effed up my game. Like, I'm ah like, famously, it fuels them so much. Like, I don't know. It's just funny. I think like they might, it might be a thing where like, everyone will just slowly reinvent like rooting interests, like on their own. like they'll be like, hey, wait a minute, what if we start doing this and just like, slowly just come to the realization on their own. Um, but yeah, honestly, that's the other thing is that like, if you don't want to have a rooting interest, that's fine. But it's like, just don't tell people like, why would you do that? It's like, because it's a sport. I don't know. It's just what people do.
00:38:01
Speaker
And like, I'm sure it'll come with time as like, I don't know, as the league gets more established, people watch their teams for more, you know, for more time and they get more invested in their teams. Not everyone can just like instantly be obsessed with their favorite team. Yeah. like we are I think also it'll help like I don't know just when other opposing players just annoy you a lot more like if someone is constantly owning your team if someone again like try to curl on ice reasons too if someone is constantly throwing like dirty hits like well
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah, and Laura Stacey owns our team. Like, I love her as a person. You know, I have nothing against her personally. But every time my team plays Laura Stacey, she's diving all over the ice and she's scoring on us. Of course I don't like her.
00:38:48
Speaker
and Right? I think it's actually more feminist to hate her than to just like act like she's any other player, you know? Like, no, I hate her because I recognize that she's an incredible athlete who like is really, really annoying for my team to play against. It's a compliment.
00:39:05
Speaker
Yeah. Side note, this is like totally unrelated, but it's related to Laura Stacey. I loved that clip of her speaking French. I felt so seen. I was like, exactly. she's representing my late French immersion skills.
00:39:19
Speaker
I refuse to watch it because I get a lot of dissuade Montreal propaganda. so I was not swayed because I still was like, no, like I don't like Laura Stacey as like a player who owns my team. But I was just like, I love when people speak French with an accent that sounds like mine. i feel very seen.
00:39:42
Speaker
So, yeah, we're sad you Yeah, it was so fun though, but like, it's so devastating. It would have been so much more fun. i honestly, like, right after that loss, I kept thinking, i think I would have preferred to lose in the first round and have Boston defeat Montreal.
00:40:06
Speaker
But then, like, we wouldn't have had that great Rebecca Leslie moment in game three. Like, I guess looking back, it's fine. I'm just like... I'm so annoyed that Montreal won out of all the teams. Like, okay, also, this is the thing we didn't talk about. Like, controversial opinion.
00:40:24
Speaker
I think it hurts worse to lose to the most universally beloved team than to lose to the most universally hated team, as we did last year. Yeah, because then at least everyone was on our side. Everyone was like, Ottawa, we were rooting for you. And was like, exactly, you were. And it's really sad for all of us. But now it's just like, it feels like we're just like the step to the like to the protagonist getting their thing. And it's like, well, that feels bad. i was my own protagonist in my own story. think Yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
And it's just like, yeah, when... When the Frost won last year, it was like, everyone is going to be bad, you know, and everyone's going to sympathize with us and everyone's going to understand why I'm upset. But when I was thinking about the possibility of the Big 12 winning the cup after they went up 2-0 in the series, I was like, oh my god, everyone is going to act like this is just like the best thing for the world of women's hockey. You know, even like people who aren't really into women's hockey are going to be like so excited about this great story. And I'm going to have to be the one party pooper being like, actually, This was really upsetting to me.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yeah, because that's the thing. It's like, it is sadly, like, removing myself from the situation. I'm like, this is objectively a great freaking narrative. Like, damn it. They really cooked it up well here. so it's very sad. Yeah, just really hurts. Yeah, it's like just being like the protagonist or the antagonist in like a Disney Channel movie or something where it's like, no one wanted us to win and then we lost.
00:41:58
Speaker
Well, and then also before the series, everyone was like, and love lesbians, go Victuag! Or like, of course the Victuag are going to win. They have the power of true love and lesbianism. And it's like, we literally have a couple. We have a gay captain. Like, most of our best players are all openly gay. We have literally more openly gay players on our team than the Victuag do. like Literally, you guys just don't know anything about the Chargers.
00:42:24
Speaker
Look up gay players per above replacement and we are winning. It's just like, I don't know. I think it's also just lots of people see Ottawa and they're like, oh, that must be like a lame, boring team. I don't care about them. um and like so you don' really Do your one job of like promoting Ottawa propaganda. I thought that's where we were. And now everyone is back on being like, who cares about Ottawa?
00:42:49
Speaker
I guess Montreal is technically in heated rivalry too, but like it's so messed up. I know. It's, yeah, it just sucks. And it's like, wow, nobody cares about our team. Nobody knows anything about our team. Nobody is willing to learn about how great our team is. They all just think the Victoire are the best ever. The Victoire are a terrorist organization and I hate them.
00:43:13
Speaker
oh my gosh. It's just so messed up. Yeah, so those are our feelings about, um sorry, for those listening, my roommate's cat just ah barged into my room and is is now all over me. she's very cute.
00:43:29
Speaker
She's very cute. She's looking at the camera and everything. you have thoughts on the charge, Tanya? you want to say go charge me? She was screaming earlier. She has thoughts. and She wants to share. oh now she's being quiet. The one time.
00:43:42
Speaker
She's been mourning. yeah, we're sad. Uh, Vig12 fans deserve nothing. this sucks. Wait, I'm so sorry You look like such, like, a Bond villain right now. You're just, like, angry and petting a cat.
00:43:59
Speaker
up Such a good visual. Oh my gosh, I wish this was a YouTube video. It's funny. It's just like getting a cat being like they just deserve nothing. Stupid nothing.
00:44:09
Speaker
Stupid Montreal. Oh my god. Okay, because also another actually I'm going to say this, another theory I have about about Montreal fans and why they deserve nothing is truly i feel like so many hockey fans in Montreal, as in, okay, so many Habs fans think it's cringe to cheer for a team that's not like the most storied franchise ever in the whole world. And I think that's why a lot of Habs fans have like not gotten behind the victual the way that Sens fans have gotten behind the charge whereas Sens fans we don't care we're like oh here's our new like Ottawa culture generally is like we have a new team and they're bad who cares gonna dedicate my whole life to them I love them so much like we don't need to win to be like obsessed with our team whereas I think a lot of people in Montreal I get the vibe that they're like
00:44:57
Speaker
you know, they would be embarrassed to cheer for a team that wasn't,
Habs fan culture and PWHL player salary implications
00:45:00
Speaker
like, the greatest ever. Yeah. My theory about Montreal hockey fans and why they deserve nothing. That's so funny, too, because it's like, well, you have, like, the greatest player ever, so, like, that's not enough for you. Well, I think some of them like the Victoria in that sense, but, like, again, I think I feel like people think it's cringe to, like, get really into a team that, like, and, you know, be really enthusiastic about supporting them if they haven't earned it the way the Habs have, you know?
00:45:27
Speaker
That's so interesting. That's the thing. I, like, have no real knowledge of, like, Habs fan, like, culture. Today I'm just getting on this podcast being, like, this is why these fans suck. All these different categories of fans. Here is my analysis of of why they are the way they are and why I hate them and they deserve nothing. That does, like, it makes sense, though. Like, I feel like, I don't know, it gives, like...
00:45:54
Speaker
I don't know how to describe this energy. It's like, you know, it's like expansion team energy where it's like, yeah, we're from the 90s and no one cares like on the Sens thing. So like, even though obviously like the Charger are an original team, not an expansion team, it's that same thing of like, they're new and who cares? Like, we all love them still. Oh my God, she's so cute. But yeah, I think it that makes sense that they're like, what do you mean they haven't won 5 billion cups and been here since 17 whatever? Yeah.
00:46:21
Speaker
whatever Yeah, they're not like an established franchise. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, next, I don't know if we have anything more to discuss before we move on to our next topic here. we keep being like, we're done here. And another thing. um So in case you haven't seen, the PWHL finally released player salaries, which is really interesting. The thing is, like, we knew what the average salary was. We knew what the minimum salary was. So it shouldn't be shocking.
00:46:49
Speaker
But it's still kind of shocking to see it written down, like with the specific players and what exactly they make. Yeah, I think I had a lot of moments where I was like, is this player worse than I thought? Or are they just like severely underpaid? Or like, I know that a lot of players have like contracts, like, we're gonna get big paydays. Like, obviously, like Rebecca Leslie comes up as an example. But yeah, it was like a very shocking. And then the other thing is, I was like, have you have to like, I guess like I was reminding myself like, okay, this is obviously like, really underpaid in a lot of ways. A lot of like the more famous players obviously have like huge brand deals where like they're definitely making a lot of money. But like it was still I was like, whoa, kind of shocking.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah. Also, yeah. Is Emily Clark the first ever overpaid women's hockey player? Like, is this women's hockey history right now?
00:47:42
Speaker
Put it in her Wikipedia, honestly. Okay, why would she? Like, good for her, to be clear. Good for her. ah She's still underpaid relative to, like, you know, her resume and everything. yeah Like, everyone is underpaid. But, like, I do feel like she's the first and only player so far where we can say...
00:48:01
Speaker
She's a little overpaid. I know. I'm like, honestly, shout out to her agent. Good deal. Like, man, um i wish everyone could get paid $126,000 a year to score three goals. Like, that is what I think three goals are worth for women's hockey players. I wish it was possible for more than just one woman to get paid $126,000 a year to score three goals.
00:48:24
Speaker
You know what, though? i felt like... Is this a hot Emily Clark take? I felt like game three and four, she I was, like, noticing her in a good way. i was like, go, Emily Clark. Okay, yes and no. There were lots of moments during the playoffs where I was noticing her, but also I feel like all playoffs, I kept noticing her in the sense that she had great scoring chances that she wasn't burying. And at a certain point, I was like, girl, bury the chance or get off the ice. I don't care. That is fair. i Because you know what? I view a scoring chance as I'm like, oh my gosh, so good. You almost did it. But it would have been nice for someone to go.
00:49:00
Speaker
But yeah, I think that that was... Well, there you go. she She's getting paid for. That's what she's getting paid for. And that's why everyone should get paid for. is beautiful.
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah, again, good for her. I do think, like, imagine being Fanuza Keterova and you're making 38,000, okay, US dollars a year. i did I do keep forgetting this, that it's US dollars, um which makes Emily Clark even more overpaid. But anyways, right, Fanuza Keterova making equivalent of 52,000 Canadian dollars a year, which is still not a lot of money.
00:49:37
Speaker
And then your teammate who has three goals all year, making 126 000 us dollars it's so because i don't know the details like did they know about this like did the players were the players aware of like everyone's salary or was like just no one like they only knew i think the players were okay because imagine this is how you find out you're like what dude like i can't believe this Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, like, it's really looking through the b list. It's like everyone is is so underpaid. Like, it's ridiculous. um And, you know, like, this is still incredible by women's hockey standards. Like, we knew that the salaries were going to be low for the first few years. Like, it's not unexpected. I don't think it's like a huge problem or, a you know, a huge cause for concern, especially because these players do get stipends for housing. So, like,
00:50:29
Speaker
It's okay. It's just wild to look at it ends and realize how little they're making. Yeah, I don't, it's like actually very incredible. It's also kind of like, this is like the most Ottawa take, but it's like if you like then look up like the government earning salaries for many different levels, it's like, what do you mean that that's all they're making compared to like someone working for the federal government? I don't know. That's just like immediately whenever I like have salaries before me, I'm like, why do I have to compare this to a government pay scale right now?
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's just like, you know, most people in Ottawa make government salaries. And that's I don't know, like, my parents are both public servants. So I sort of like, have that as my standard of like, middle class income, you know, this is what the average person makes, not average person necessarily, but you know what I mean?
00:51:23
Speaker
Yeah, but it's just so interesting because it's like, oh my gosh, the charge players especially. It's like, oh my god, guys, get your French and then you can bump that up. i know. Okay, also, can we talk about how we knew that Daryl Watts took a discount to go to Toronto? We know that Ottawa offered her more. I need to know how much more Ottawa offered her because what do you mean she's making $59,000 year? Daryl Watts, who led the charge in scoring her first year.
00:51:53
Speaker
he hates us. I think I texted, I was like, damn, she like actually hates us. Like this was one of the first things I looked up. I was like, I want to know how much she sold her soul for. and it was $59,000 a year to live in Toronto.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, like, i that's the thing, is how much is USD compared to Canadian dollars? But still, like, I hope she's getting brand deals. I don't know if I've seen her in ads, but she must be getting it. She, Hockey Canada gives you money as well. She's on national team.
00:52:23
Speaker
So, that was probably part of the yeah equation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just crazy. And like, you know, at least most of them are making like at least a living wage with the housing stipend and everything. um But, you know, when you really think about it, it's like, it's not just about getting the players a living wage while they're playing. Like hockey careers are so short, you know, we're still at a point where like every women's hockey player has to have another career lined up after that, because even though they could meet their deeds, they're
00:52:54
Speaker
Now, you know, it's not like, it's not like NHL players where they make all the money they'll ever make in their life in a few, in like a span of 10 to 20 years. Right. Yeah. So yeah, have pay for these women more. And our other PWHL discussion point right now is expansion.
00:53:12
Speaker
Cause I'm not looking forward to it. Yeah, i i still haven't. Do we know what the rules are for protection and everything? or Yes, but they're really complicated. Okay, so no.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah, so like I have almost given it up on and trying to fully understand them. The basics of it is first there's a free agency period just for the existing team. So it's like re resign your own free agents, right? So we need Katarova, for example.
00:53:41
Speaker
Hopefully we re resign her. And then after you have done those signings, you protect three players. Then the expansion teams can offer like special, really good contracts.
00:53:57
Speaker
And basically it's like they have to release a list of the players that they want to offer it to and they rank it. It's like it reminds me of like um formal recruit in legal fields where it's like you apparently I never did this, but for like big law, you have to like rank your top choices and they rank their top people or whatever. It's stuff like that. Yeah. We're like the teams will rank the team, the players that they're targeting.
00:54:19
Speaker
And then basically they make these players an offer and the players are not allowed to refuse the offer. um But I think if they get multiple offers from multiple teams, because they were like ranked the same way, then they can choose which team to accept the offer from. So it's like they said it's to protect player choice, but it's like, not really, because if you get an expansion offer, it has to be for over $100,000 a year, I think. So like, it's a good amount of money.
00:54:44
Speaker
But like, yeah, if you get one of those offers, you can't turn it down. And then after that, I think there's another free agency phase, like, The existing teams can protect three more players and there's like another round of free agency, but it's with like less special contracts.
00:55:02
Speaker
And we don't have the lists yet of the protected players. Who would you protect? I don't know. Because how much of it, like does contract play a role? I guess, to be honest, all the players are fine. So I don't know. Rebecca Leslie, number one, number one protection. Well, Gwen Phillips, but Rebecca Leslie, number one in my part. Yeah.
00:55:22
Speaker
I feel like Gwyneth Phillips is the one lock. That's the one that everyone's like, there's absolutely no way they leave her exposed, which, yeah, I agree, like, 100%. now Second one, honestly, I still think it's going to be Savalainen. Like, that was that was my, like, hot take last year, and I ended up being right. And most experts who are putting out protection lists have also had Savalainen there, so I feel, like, fairly confident that they'll do that, especially because, like, they desperately need defense. Yeah, I think that makes sense.
00:55:54
Speaker
And then third one, I feel like probably either Leslie or Katarova. the It sucks that it feels like we can't keep both of them. And also it's like, man, Breanne Jenner, like, yeah, like they didn't take her last year, but like there are more teams this year. And also she was near the lead lead in scoring and was nominated for forward of the year. So like they might take her.
00:56:23
Speaker
please no hate again. Maybe they'll just go for like name recognition and be like, we need a big name. Emily Clark, come on down. literally face of the franchise for whoever yeah I feel like like all love to Emily Clark she has not been great at any point in Ottawa like she's had her moments but like I don't feel like she's ever been that good she had a really bad season this past year she makes a lot of money like You know, i say we leave her exposed. If the expansion teams want her, maybe she can go to an expansion team with Jamie Bourbonnet. And I would be so happy for her if she did that. Like, I don't think it's the end of the world if we cut ties with her. Yeah.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. I totally agree. that I think I truly. Yeah. Like, Phillips has got to be like the one definite, definite choice. But I feel like the other ones are like, i don't know what they're going to do. hmm.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, well, because like, and it's weird because with Rebecca Leslie, you know, she had such a good season this past year. And obviously, like, you know, hometown hero. I love her so much.
00:57:27
Speaker
um But like, she was also, she had a crazy high shooting percentage this year and kind of came out of nowhere. And so you hope that like, yeah, this is just Rebecca Leslie hitting her peak at 30 years old and like finally figuring it out you know now that she's able to focus on hockey full-time she's become so good but also it's like she only has this one year and we don't know if she's gonna regress especially if she loses Jenner potentially yeah whereas Katarova she's like two years younger and didn't score quite as much but she was on the third line versus Leslie being on the first
00:58:03
Speaker
And, like, i I see a lot of potential with her. So I'm kind of, like, I almost feel like we want to keep the the young, promising asset, right? And also just just, I don't want her to go. I love her so much. But both of them! im like, they can't They're so... They're such Ottawa-charged players. Like, it's so unfair.
Ottawa Charge unexpected stars and new PWHL cities
00:58:20
Speaker
Like, also, my brain... My heart it's like, Rebecca Leslie will never regress to the mean. She's going to the moon. Like, it's gonna be amazing. But my knows. also, like, maybe...
00:58:32
Speaker
Maybe other teams don't take her, right? Yeah, that's true. Especially like with the fancy like, you know, expansion franchise offer or whatever, where you're looking for like franchise players, like how many of them are going to go for Rebecca Leslie just because she had one good season versus I can see them going for Emily Clark, Breanne Jenner, or even Katarova, honestly. i think that makes a lot of sense.
00:58:53
Speaker
I don't know. i honestly never the tactic of this mention. I feel like it's just such like you never know what the teams are thinking. Also, i know that you I feel bad because you explain the entire rules, but I don't really understand the rules.
00:59:08
Speaker
I kind of don't either. yeah like I don't really know. i don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, who knows? Well, it's so interesting with Ottawa because, like, I do feel like for our entire three-year existence, this team, like, the really big names have kind of disappointed across the board relative to, like...
00:59:33
Speaker
the sort of unknown players that I feel like have been our stars. Like, you know, it's not that they've all been bad. It's like, Emmerence Mashmeyer was great, ah but she straight up lost the job to Gwyneth Phillips, right? Like she was outplayed. um And, you know, Gwyneth Phillips was kind of an unknown. Like she was very good, but I think she was right out of college, right? Like she wasn't, you know, this like really well-known, highly sought after player. We got her fairly late in the draft. um Or we got her in the draft at least. I don't remember exactly how late.
01:00:02
Speaker
And then like Emily Clark has been like fine. She was good in the playoffs last year, but hasn't really been consistently that great. Brianne Jenner obviously had an amazing season this past year, has been good the whole time, but not like necessarily the best player on the team.
01:00:17
Speaker
Even Savannah Harmon kind of sucked. And then we traded her and now she's retiring. I don't know if you saw that. oh no. Yeah. 30 years old. i think she's 30. Yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
I know. Really kind of shocking, but you know, I guess, guess needs a career change or whatever. and then, yeah, Justin Narok as well. Like that's another big name. And I mean, she's She's old, right? like i don't I didn't necessarily expect that much from her. Whereas like our stars in in the first year was Daryl Watts, who you know what was like a bit of a wild card on the team. um It's been this year, Katarova, Leslie, Ronja Savalainen, just a lot of the
01:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, players that people didn't necessarily... Oh, Teresa Venezova as well um last year, right? like the The players that other teams weren't necessarily looking at because they're not like the the big names from the Canadian and US national teams.
01:01:15
Speaker
um Which is... It's nice. I like that about the charge, right? That we're like the the kind of ah scrappy underdog team with the team of misfits and and players that are overlooked and all of that.
01:01:27
Speaker
ah But now I'm like, now other teams are going to benefit from us being smart and drafting Katarova, know? Yeah. Yeah. That's what's so annoying about expansion. It's like, we did all the hard work. We discovered her. Just kidding. But like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:45
Speaker
yeah so anyone could have signed emily clark that's obvious yeah you would have drafted fanuza katarova i don't know i feel like oh also i guess this is like a total well not a total change of subject but i guess last time when we recorded we didn't know where the teams were so that's interesting too Yeah, ah congrats to Detroit. A lot of people have been asking me if I have a rivalry with Detroit already. um My answer is, you know, I'm open to it. But truly, my rivalry with the Red Wings is very Red Wings specific. um This will depend on how many Red Wings fans get really into the Detroit team and how intense they are. For now, I i have no ill will toward this PWHL Detroit team.
01:02:29
Speaker
team. I'm very happy for the city that they have that team. That they finally have a good hockey team in Detroit. yeah Yeah, I also enjoyed seeing a little bit of Hamilton, Ontario discourse. I thought that was fun. Yeah, that was surprising. i i hope Hamilton has fun with that, you know? Like, it's fun that they get to be like the GTA team that's not Toronto, right?
01:02:54
Speaker
Also, i did i said this on Twitter, but like, back in the days of the CWHL, I cheered for the Brampton Thunder, who then became the Markham Thunder, because they were the only team that were not in an NHL city. And they weren't like affiliated with an NHL team. So I was like, oh, since I don't cheer for any of the teams that these existing teams are affiliated with, like, I'm going to jump on that team. So I like that we have the Hamilton team that's like, for people whose NHL team doesn't have a PWHL equivalent, right? Yeah, it's also like, in my head, I'm like, it's for all the people that want to commute, but like, or like, don't want to commute more than like,
01:03:31
Speaker
Like they're like, they get to Hamilton and they're like 40 more minutes, but I'm done. I'm staying in Hamilton. I'm not going to Toronto. and I respect that. It's like Southern Ontario's other team.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah. So I was initially like a little bit confused, but I'm, I'm on board. It really sucks to be Buffalo. Cause remember, remember guys, when people were so mad that Ottawa got a team and Buffalo didn't. Well, look where we are now.
01:03:58
Speaker
I was honestly shocked. I really thought that Buffalo would get one. Yeah. But then, yeah, San Jose is fun. Yeah. Should be cool. Vegas, sure, why not? Yeah, like, it makes sense. I'm sure that they'll draw a big crowd because I feel like everything draws a big crowd in Vegas. So, like, why would this be any different? But, yeah.
01:04:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, okay. And I guess it's too early to think about it, but I was thinking about it during these playoffs. ah Playoff format. What are we thinking? Oh my god, yeah. Wait, so how many teams are there now? 12? Yeah. Wait.
01:04:32
Speaker
I can't do math. great because Here's the thing. People online were telling me that they're probably going to do a play-in round, which is lame. I don't want a play-in round. I want 8 out of the 12 teams to make the playoffs, and we have 3 rounds of the playoffs. I think this is perfect.
01:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, you know, more than half the league makes the playoffs, but like we had that before too. yeah This year four teams missed. Four teams missed next year. i love it. I am fully in favor of like more teams making the playoffs because it's just more fun and then you have seeding and everything. I'd be down for like two conferences.
01:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, maybe can do West and East. But yeah, I think we need to expand the playoffs because these playoffs are too short. They're over too soon. Give us a third round, make it a little harder. i would also love to move to seven game series. But like, i I don't know if that's really possible. I know it's like it's intense. It's maybe too much hockey. i just think seven games is like the goaded playoff format. Yeah, it is really good. i don't know. I think it could be cool to eventually.
01:05:34
Speaker
i i think this used to be the NHL format. And I think this is like, I don't know if this is some other team's format, but I think it used to be like, or some other league's format, but I think it used to be like first round is like five games and then it goes to seven. It's like, that could be cool. Like if you want to do like feel like there was something with the PHF where it was like three and then five or something yeah i't even had to so like that. If they want to keep it at five, then like instead of doing like a, it's like not a play in round, but they could do like a round of three and then they can do like a round of five.
01:06:06
Speaker
yeah yeah i would Yeah, I'd be in favor of that. Well, but then the only problem is, like, yeah, but then what if you have the one seed playing three-game round against, like, a best-of-three round against, like, the eight seed, you know? i feel like that's maybe unfair. That's why I think it's ideal to expand the other two rounds to seven and then do the first round as five. Like, I think that that is, my ideal, but, like, I don't know. Or even, like...
01:06:33
Speaker
Even like 5-5 and 7, I'd be okay with that. Just say the finals are best of 7. But I think most importantly, i want a third round, not just a play-in round. just think we need more playoff hockey.
01:06:46
Speaker
It's true. it also like It also like obviously it's nice to be like, oh, like we made the finals, but I feel like it'd be even more meaningful if the finals weren't just in the second round. You know what I mean? like i think know, yeah.
01:07:02
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. i just want more playoff hockey, and I do realize that this would probably disadvantage the charge, because the charge are mildly fraudulent, but i don't care. the other teams are also fraudulent. Man, the Victoire are so fraudulent.
01:07:18
Speaker
I just... want expanded playoffs I think it would be fun I also I don't know how it would work with like the choose your own opponent format because like I think if you did conferences you could have the one seed in each conference choose their opponent um and that would make a lot of sense if you wanted to do one to eight at first I was like okay maybe the one seed has first choice and the two seed has second choice but then I'm like you're kind of devaluing the regular season if you're like it actually doesn't you know it doesn't have any effect on seeding because everybody just chooses an order you know so i don't know I'm sure i'm sure the PWHL can figure it out yeah I think like the idea of just having the one seed pick would make sense right yeah yeah and then the rest you just go by points maybe um yeah that would be nice I yeah I hope the league stops at 12 for now it sounds like they will
01:08:14
Speaker
um And I really hope that the talent doesn't get so badly diluted that the product is so much worse next year. I'm really worried about this. I'm not going to lie.
01:08:26
Speaker
I will be there cheering no matter what. yeah I guess it's a latency type thing. Honestly, i was like, I don't because I don't know how obvious it would be. But then I'm also like, OK, well, like four teams and how many people are on each team. Like it's a big, you know i mean? Like big jump. Yeah.
01:08:45
Speaker
I mean, lots of NCAA players coming into the league. Yeah. Which should help, but still, yeah. Lots to be ah excited about, but also lots to be dreading right now. um Man, we were saying, like, i was like, ah at least this is our final really depressing, like, post-mortem episode. And like, oh, and what if all our players leave an expansion and we have to do an episode where we're like, the charge are completely fucked. yeah Yeah. Well, I don't know. Positive thoughts. Let's say no. This will be our last depressing episode. Don't worry. yeah
01:09:22
Speaker
Our post-expansion episode, we'll just be so excited about all the players that we kept. Exactly. We'll be like, oh my God, they just skipped over us for some reason. I didn't even know that was allowed. on All our figures were bad. So like. Only Billy Clark. Oh my God.
01:09:38
Speaker
They took Justin that rock, you know? no no Yeah. um Okay, so our last few episodes, we've been like, send, send, send, send sends and at the very end, a bit of charge. um And now we're doing a full like, PWHL episode. And then we're gonna have like, little bit of a general playoffs discussion, which is just,
Canes and Sens playoff dynamics and criticisms
01:10:00
Speaker
go Canes, go. yeah you were saying, I think, before we recorded, but like, honestly, black and red team who like, whatever, you know, get it coursey.
01:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like close enough, whatever. we count those. But yeah, so we're recording this before, honestly, let's be honest, before they beat the half. 15 minutes before the start. Yeah.
01:10:24
Speaker
Yeah. yeah You don't want to jinx it. Sorry, my gun word. Yeah. it' No, let's not say anything about what's going to happen, but... Wow, the Carolina Hurricanes have looked amazing. And it's so funny because like so many people are like discounting what the Hurricanes have done this these playoffs and being like, oh, they haven't faced a real team. They haven't faced a real opponent. Like they've gotten the most easy matchups all the way. So they're so fraudulent. And it's funny to see Sens fans and Canes fans sort of unite in being like, hold on now.
01:10:59
Speaker
The Sens are good. Sens were really good, guys. Yeah, like, that's the thing is, like, right when they got swept, I was like, okay, well, what the hell? But then, like, the Flyers got swept, and I was like, okay, the Sens are not alone. And let's be honest, like, the Habs, like, sure, they won a game, but, like, They got one freebie. Yeah, and it's like, okay, the Habs are winning the seven shots on goal per game bowl. Like, what it like what's going on? Like,
01:11:29
Speaker
Like just watching how uneven that series has been, how thoroughly the Habs have been outplayed, it's like, okay, that didn't happen to us. Yeah, honestly, the only thing this has showed me is that like, there is some issue with this playoff format. Like we need to fix this seeding because like, what do you mean? It slowly got easier for the Hurricanes.
01:11:50
Speaker
Literally, that's what I was thinking too. Like, literally every round has been easier for them. And like, yeah, you can say the Habs are beaten up and injured. So were the Sens, honestly, in round one. um And also, like, the Hurricanes would be really beaten up and injured if they weren't so good. And maybe if the Habs were a little better, they wouldn't be so beaten up. Like, people act like it's completely out of their control that their series went seven. And yeah, like, they...
01:12:16
Speaker
They had an easier time with the Flyers than they did with the Sens. And I think the Flyers were a better opponent than the Habs are. um i don't think it's going to get easier for them in the finals if they make it, knock on wood. But um yeah, that is hilarious. Like, truly, it was the real Eastern Conference final. Nobody will believe this, but I swear, the first round see the first round series between the Sens and the Canes, that was the real Eastern Conference final.
01:12:43
Speaker
It's literally true. Also, like... I don't know what was going on in the West, but like, it seems the same, basically. it seems like basically every team sucked except one. so or like,
01:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and the one that was supposed to be good ended up just like falling apart and he's in the Western Conference Finals. The Sens and the Avs are like the same team. Like, that's what I'm learning. Like, we're basically the same. Yeah, basically. It's funny, though, because it's like, in a way, do you think the Hurricanes would have gotten would be getting more respect now if the Ottawa series had gone six or seven games? Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. By sweeping us, you shot yourself in the foot because now no one respects you.
01:13:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's like maybe if it had gone longer, people would have been like, wow, the Sens can really hang with this team. Like, this is a real battle. This is hard fought, you know? and instead it was like, oh it was so easy. Sens never led once during the series. Yeah. It was a cakewalk.
01:13:45
Speaker
They forget how many of the games went to overtime. Yeah.
01:13:51
Speaker
Well, and like, it's not just that the games were close in terms of the score. Like, the underlying numbers were also close. The shots, the chances. Like, no, the Sens did not deserve to win that series, but they deserve to lose it in like six games, you know, with how they played.
01:14:07
Speaker
And like, yeah and credit to the Carolina Hurricanes. Like the reason, like the the Hurricanes could have won this series in six, but they won it in four because they did not take their foot off the gas for one moment. Like this was was the type of series where like, if the Hurricanes had been slightly off for one game, even for one period, you know, if they had any stretch where they were just kind of like not on a game, the Sens would have won at least one game. you know?
01:14:36
Speaker
but like, the Canes gave us absolutely nothing. They did not take a night off. They did not get complacent at any point. They just, like, completely suffocated the
Habs playoff critique and speculation on Sens' alternate paths
01:14:45
Speaker
Sens. And, like, not every team would do that, you know? The Habs have had so many bad games on their way to, like, somehow stumbling their way into the Eastern Conference Final, right?
01:14:57
Speaker
I think the Habs have... I can't think of it. I watched a decent amount of the Habs games. I can't think of one where I was like, wow, these Habs, like, gotta to hand it to them. I literally think their opponents just hate themselves. And they're like, whatever. i don't care.
01:15:15
Speaker
No, like, truly the most fraudulent team I have ever seen make a deep run in the playoffs. It's so ridiculous. It's like, obviously, I hate the Habs. Obviously, I'm rooting against them anyway. But it's also, on some level, it's just like...
01:15:30
Speaker
sad for the sport of hockey that you're like how is it possible that a team this bad can just end up winning when they don't deserve to win any of these games like the games that they lose they're so bad and the games that they win they're also really bad they just like find a way to win yeah i honestly i feel like obish is like their only player and he can't score goals so Yeah. Also pisses me off that they just like stumbled their way into a franchise goaltender franchise. Yeah, I was so confused about where he even like, did they? I'm like, where did he come from? i don't remember him coming up. And now he's just here. And he's amazing. So they just get everything.
01:16:10
Speaker
it's so frustrating. But like, at least, it you know, it's nice to watch them. And of course, Habs fans are all like, the the Habs havebs have left the Sens in their rebuild. the set The Habs have arrived. They're finally a contender. But you watch them and you're like, no, they haven't.
01:16:26
Speaker
Like, absolutely not. Yeah, it's like, honestly, shocking. Because like, after I feel like, like, I keep coming back to the game that they like won to like beat Tampa, where they literally had like 14 shots on goal. And it like went to overtime. No, no, no.
01:16:41
Speaker
nine shots on goal oh my god wait really i thought it was 14 for some that game seven was nine shots on nine that's how many shots the rangers had in that one game against the sends where the sends had no defense like that's like if i'm like the tampa bay lightning i am never forgiving myself like what go what are you doing oh my god Yeah, it was also funny because during the first round, so many like the analytics nerds were like, Ottawa, Carolina is a recent conference final. But then Habs fans kept being like, clearly Montreal, Tampa is the real Eastern Conference final. And like, after seeing how Tampa played in that series, like, no, like either of these teams are like real c cup contenders. Are you kidding? Yeah.
01:17:30
Speaker
Well, I guess we will see. i just, like, I don't know how they've won a game. Like, I'm like, how did this, send how are the Sens, the team that got slept, compared? Like, i don't get it. i And I try, i try not to think too much about it, but sometimes I do wonder,
01:17:46
Speaker
What would have happened if the Sens had gotten one more point and played the Sabres in round one instead? Because, like, I don't know for sure that they would have beaten the Sabres, but I could see it happening. And then again, I feel like truly I believe in my heart that if they had played the Hobbs in round two, they would have thoroughly outplayed the Hobbs and somehow lost in seven games. Yeah.
01:18:11
Speaker
And then we would have the Montreal Carolina Eastern Conference Final and Carolina would steamroll them. So like we would have ended up at the same place. Yeah, but like it would have felt different.
01:18:24
Speaker
Probably would have hurt worse, you know, as we have discussed, you know, the hope that kills you and everything. um But would have been a little bit more fun along the way, maybe. yeah So yeah, hopefully hopefully this nightmare of the Habs making a deep run is over.
01:18:39
Speaker
And I wish them everything that happened to the Sens after they made the conference final in 2017. I hope that happens to the Habs. Yeah.
Closing remarks and social media shoutouts
01:18:49
Speaker
Oh my gosh. That's like the worst thing you can wish on anyone. Yep. Any Uber drivers, if you get Habs players in your car, like turn on that camera.
01:18:59
Speaker
yeah So yeah, I think that's it for this episode. Unless we had any other things we wanted to discuss. I could go on about being a Habs hater for ages, but we've we've gone on for long enough now.
01:19:10
Speaker
Alright, so that's it for this episode. Follow us on Twitter and Blue Sky EliteSenseBrain. Read Silver7Sense. ghost send willgo charge Go, Habs, no.
01:19:23
Speaker
Most importantly. i hey go Canes, go. Bye.
01:19:34
Speaker
you