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27: The Faith Of The Next Generation, Middle and High School
188 Plays3 years ago
The gang's back together again! Laura Fleetwood, Ryan Pfendler and Jill Devine sat down to continue the conversation about the faith of the next generation. Ryan is the Director of Student & Young Adult Ministry at Messiah St. Charles. Ryan’s ministry believes that following Jesus is the way young people grow into the best version of themselves. He wants every teenager to belong to a community of faith where they can learn who Jesus is, and discover the purpose He has for them now and as they grow.
Highlights from the episode include:
*Teaching students the importance of caring NOW
*The real life situations middle and high school students are facing
*Personal modeling
*Bridging multiple generations with one another
*The importance of small group leaders
*Common questions from teenagers
*Talking with our teenagers, not at them
*Teenagers are teenagers, despite how grown up they may seem at times
*The counselor approach
*It’s all about the relationship
Messiah Middle School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/middle-school/
Messiah High School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/high-school/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Normal Goes a Long Way. I'm your host, Jill Devine, and the gang is back together.
Meet the Guests: Ryan Finler and Laura Fleetwood
00:00:48
Speaker
I am talking about the gang from episode one, the two individuals that are really helping me a lot on this journey of mine with Faith, Ryan, Finler, Laura Fleetwood. Welcome back.
00:01:02
Speaker
I'm glad we're all through here again. This is fun. We're all sitting around the table just hanging out.
How Can We Preserve Faith in the Next Generation?
00:01:07
Speaker
So I will say that if you have not listened to the very first episode, episode one, how it all began, this is where you will learn why Laura Fleetwood and why Ryan Finler are walking alongside me, why I've chosen these two individuals, but we're back together because we are talking about the faith of the next generation.
00:01:31
Speaker
And we just had episodes on with Hannah Lang, who really is the specialist when it comes to kids' birth to fifth grade. But what we have learned about Ryan and what he does, he really specializes in sixth grade to seniors in high school, right? So I wanted to get that perspective on because that's also part of
00:02:00
Speaker
the next generation. And I wanted Laura to come in on this and do the interview with you, Ryan, but then I wanted to just kind of bounce in here and there with some of my questions, if that's okay with you. Sounds good to me. All right. Take it away. Well, this is very personal to me because I have two high school daughters who get to be in relationship with you, Ryan, as their director of student ministry. And so I get to see kind of behind the scenes.
00:02:30
Speaker
how their faith is growing and some of the things that they're learning and talking about. And I have some questions that I'd love to just ask you about how students develop their faith. But I want to kick it off with this statistic that you recently shared with me, which is that half of all high school students who go to church
00:02:57
Speaker
will fall away from a relationship with Jesus later on in their life. That's stunning. Yeah. And I'll be honest, that statistic came from a book in 2016, so it could be worse. It could be more, it could be less. I think 50% is safe. I guess I'd love some insight into your work with middle school students and high school students. How do you help them form
00:03:26
Speaker
faith and then how are you working to help them sustain it after they leave kind of your sphere of influence in the church and they go off to college and they go off to start their lives. So what does it look like
00:03:41
Speaker
to be a student minister, right, at a church serving middle school and high school
Making Faith Relevant for Students
00:03:48
Speaker
students. Very terrifying aid group. I hear that all the time. I don't get it. They're pretty fun. They keep me young, which I love. But I would say that in today's world, the question has gone from what does this mean, simply answering, hey, here's what the Bible says and here's what it means. Well, now I think kids
00:04:05
Speaker
would ask, and why should I care? Or why does this matter to me? Yeah, I know what it means, but why should I even care about it at all? And so I think to reach them, you have to dig deeper into that question of, here's what scripture says. Here's what Jesus says. Here's what that means. And here's why that matters for you. Here's why you should care right now. Here's why you shouldn't just wait till you're 80 years old and on your deathbed to know Jesus.
00:04:31
Speaker
knowing him and following him can impact your life positively now and can change your future and it can change your vision for yourself right now. And so I think a lot of what I teach and speak to them comes from that place of wanting them to care now and wanting them to feel on fire now for what God has planned for their lives. So I think that's,
00:04:58
Speaker
a huge focus. And if we only stop it explaining the gospel and not saying why it matters, then we're going to miss the boat. You're going to get that 50%. And there's more to that number as well. There's another statistic we've shared about how every kid needs at least five influential adults in their lives outside of their parents.
The Role of Adults in Youth Faith Journey
00:05:18
Speaker
And I think that's huge too.
00:05:20
Speaker
I've shared stories with you about influential adults in my life who simply by their presence, they kept me connected to church and connected to Jesus. And so for our young people, it's explaining why the gospel matters and actually living it out and showing it to them in the form of
00:05:38
Speaker
of those who are above them, of the adults in our church. And so I think in our context, and I can probably say in every church context, it's a multi-generational effort to reach kids. So when I think about middle school students, right? So that's our sixth, seventh and eighth graders. What are some of the real life situations that they are facing in their lives
00:06:05
Speaker
And how do you help them tie that, what their lived experiences to, why it should matter to them, what Jesus did for them and how much he loves them? Yeah. So, you know, middle schoolers are very concrete thinkers. They're very straightforward. Someone say they think like an engineer. So it's like, give me the facts. The abstract stuff maybe comes a little bit later, but give me the facts, right? What does the scripture say? What is it all about?
00:06:34
Speaker
And they're kind of entering that phase. And that's why we have this program in our church called Confirmation. A lot of church bodies do it. I know the Catholic Church does it. And other church bodies, that's kind of the age that they found that a kid, they've left kids ministry and they're starting to become aware of who am I as a person?
00:06:53
Speaker
outside of just, um, my parents son, you know, and whatever my parents say goes, well, now they're starting to understand reality for themselves and they're starting to learn who they are. And so, Oh, you know, my parents raised me to be a Christian or my Christian. So that's kind of that age, that 12 years old, 13 years old,
00:07:16
Speaker
That's when we start trying to answer that question for them. Hey, you know, a lot of you grew up in our church. A lot of you grew up in this environment. Some of them didn't. So we always have to be aware of that. I think the days now are gone where you can just assume your middle school students heard all the Bible stories. You know, that changes how you teach. I've realized I used to start off by teaching. You know, I could rush through some stories. I could say something like, you know, the story of David and Goliath. Well, here's what
00:07:45
Speaker
You know, that says, well, you can't assume every kid in there knows the story of David and Goliath. And so you have to walk through it with them again. And if they did hear it in those first through fifth grade years, they've probably forgotten parts of it and need a reminder of it anyways. And so as they're starting to own their faith and discover who they are, we're also starting to define what Christianity is, what faith in Jesus looks like for them.
00:08:14
Speaker
That's where they're starting to see and notice, okay, you say you believe this, how do you live it out? They're kind of starting to become aware of that.
Perception and Role Models for High Schoolers
00:08:23
Speaker
And I think high school is one that becomes really important. When the personal modeling, you're teaching me this thing, you're teaching me to be generous, well, are you generous? You're teaching me to serve, well, are you serving? High schoolers especially, but teenagers in general, they're pretty perceptive.
00:08:42
Speaker
and they can smell a fake a mile away. Yep, yep, they can. And that's my fear is I don't want to be a faker. I want to practice what I preach when I teach and when I'm in conversations with these students, I want to be able to be confident and say, yeah, this thing I'm teaching you, I've also practiced it and wrestled with it and struggled with it. And so I know where you're at wrestling with it and struggling with it too.
00:09:08
Speaker
And so I think that's a huge part of it is defining for them what the gospel is, defining for them how to live it out, and then personally modeling it for them as the leader.
00:09:21
Speaker
I want to chime in listening to you talk. I said this about Hannah and I think Laurie, you can agree on this one too, but the way Hannah was talking about what she does and the ages that she is working with, that is exactly what God called her to do. And I have had the pleasure of also seeing you in action, so to speak. And I would say the exact same thing about you. It takes a certain person to be able to reach
00:09:51
Speaker
this age group and I Personally feel like when I see what you are doing and how you're presenting it You're it like That's why they're coming back. I just thank you for saying that you're welcome. I I do We have the saying at home. It's called we like to live with an open hand which is just saying that we don't want to set our hearts
00:10:18
Speaker
against something or set our hearts for something and not take on the equation, not be obedient to him first. And with student ministry, you know, I've always felt like, hey, this is just a unique period of my life where I can, as a young person, bring a certain energy, a certain perspective to these kids that I might not be able to bring when I'm older.
00:10:41
Speaker
And you can do youth ministry as an older person, but I think there's something unique about reaching young people while you're still kind of young that I love getting to do. There's something powerful about being like just a step ahead, you know, not 10 steps ahead. You can relate. I wonder if too.
00:11:00
Speaker
Part of my job is being a bridge between these young people that I'm called to reach and older people in our congregation who aren't quite sure where their place is in their faith. If I can bridge these generations to being connected with each other and to being in relationship with each other,
00:11:19
Speaker
you know, I like to think that that heals some of the divisions that we might see between age groups. Once you're in a relationship with them and walking alongside of them, you realize, oh, teenagers aren't actually that scary. And my parents and my grandparents aren't just boomers, boomers that don't know nothing, right? They actually love me and care for me. And when you put them alongside of each other, that's where that happens.
00:11:44
Speaker
But I think about the peer pressure and the I've got to be cool and maybe going to church isn't cool and Jesus isn't cool. And I feel like sometimes do some of them just get lucky and they stick with it. I just know some of the things that I did and I
00:12:10
Speaker
maybe wanted to walk alongside God, but I had friends that were like, no, that is not cool. Yeah, like what is the difference between that 50% who sticks with their faith and their relationship with Jesus and the other 50%, what makes the difference?
Community and Mentorship's Impact on Faith
00:12:29
Speaker
Community.
00:12:30
Speaker
I would say that if you are not walking in your faith with other people, you're kind of already setting yourself up for a moment of losing your faith. I'll lean on nothing but the Bible. Jesus himself said, you're not supposed to go through this alone. You're supposed to walk through this with someone else. When he sent the disciples out to the different towns and villages around the area, he always sent them in groups of two.
00:12:57
Speaker
And I think he knew that none of his people were meant to do this alone. And so the kids that I see most engaged and most connected are the kids that are most relationally connected and most relationally engaged with other students and with adults who they can trust. And that can only come with time, unfortunately. That's what I always say. For these relationships to work, it takes time.
00:13:26
Speaker
You're not going to be best friends with a small group leader. You're not going to be best friends with someone in your church on day one. That's why we do community groups in our church, right? It starts out a little awkward, but as the weeks go on and as time together grows, you start getting to know each other more personally. And you realize that you're walking through this journey of faith together.
00:13:49
Speaker
Something that we failed it, I would like a definition on is, because Hannah brought this up too, what is a small group leader? A small group leader is someone that essentially I've given, let's say 10 young people to and said, hey, this is your group.
00:14:07
Speaker
Every night on Sunday nights, when I'm done giving a message, you gather together and talk about what we talked about with them. But they're also there to celebrate birthdays, to text students, encouragements. Sometimes they show up to performances.
00:14:24
Speaker
at, you know, if they're athletes or if they are in a play. And so it's really meant to be maybe a mentor is a better word. There's so many different jobs that a small group leader kind of embodies. You're kind of a coach, kind of a teacher, you're kind of a friend, you're kind of a
00:14:51
Speaker
older sibling in some ways, you're a little bit of all those things. My vision is that yes, our students see me as the leader, the guy on stage. But like, if I if I could paint a picture, my goal is that when these students graduate high school, that that group leader is the first person they invite to their graduation party. Maybe I'm invited.
00:15:17
Speaker
I wouldn't say no, but I also want to see these group leaders be so invested in their lives that they trust them and know enough that I want to celebrate the past four years with this adult who's been here for me. Does that answer your question? It does. The one thing that they are
00:15:35
Speaker
is that they are always there. Present, yes. Presence is so important. Presence with a C, not presence at similar Christmas. Those presents are also important, but presence with a C, that is the most important thing. I've told you about different small group leaders in my life before, but one consistent thing that I think about now, 10 years later, looking back on my experience with them is specific teachings,
00:16:04
Speaker
I can't quite remember, or maybe one or two jostled my brain, but my relationship with them, my love for them simply came from the fact that they were present there for me and with me. So what do you find are common questions that kids this age have for you when it comes to faith?
Addressing Personal Faith Questions
00:16:26
Speaker
So that's an interesting question, but
00:16:31
Speaker
The questions that are most on their minds are the ones that are most personal to them.
00:16:36
Speaker
I don't get a lot of grandiose 30,000 foot view questions from these kids. I get a lot of questions about, I've got some friend drama that I need help processing. What do I do in this situation? I have been dealing with some self harm. What should I do in this situation? I am dealing with depression. I'm dealing with a breakup. I'm dealing with issues, finding friends at school.
00:17:03
Speaker
It's in some ways the the typical teenage questions right. But sometimes they ask you questions in the form of statements and you gotta realize that someone might come up and say you know i think blank.
00:17:17
Speaker
And that's all they say. Well, they're saying that as a statement, but internally they're also asking, and how do you feel about me now that I've said I believe this? Or how do you feel about me now that I've said this thing? Like they're looking for validation. Are you going to reject me because I said this? So there's actually a lot of hidden questions in these conversations.
00:17:39
Speaker
I had a leader who a student in her group came to them and said, hey, I think this, or I believe this. I don't wanna be too specific, but I believe this. And this leader felt convicted that, man, I see things differently than this student. And I think the scriptures, Jesus says things differently than what the student might be saying. And they were trying to figure out how do I respond?
00:18:05
Speaker
And I said, what's more important or what is the win here? Is the win being right or is the win them believing what's right? You can tell them what you think is right. And if they're not ready to receive it, you might've lost them. But if you wait for the right time, you might get the opportunity.
00:18:29
Speaker
And so, and it's funny, I think it took a couple months, but a couple months later, the student came back with the question of, hey, I believe this, how do you feel about this? What do you think about it? And they had the chance to speak, their mind said, hey, I love you, you know I love you, but I see things this way. And I think Jesus would encourage you to see things this way. And the student said,
00:18:57
Speaker
I don't really agree, but I'm willing to listen to you, basically, because that relationship was there. So prioritize the relationship over the rightness. Your question was, what are they asking? I kind of said, here's how you should respond to it. But teenagers, be on the lookout for the questions. They might not always be phrase-like questions. That's what I would say. Well, I think what's concerning to me is,
00:19:26
Speaker
I love that teaching and I love what you are teaching and training your small group leaders, but something, Laura, that you brought up to me in one of our very first interviews, what if the conversations went differently with some of the people I came across? And as I'm saying that out loud, I'm remembering what Hannah said. Ultimately, God's the bigger picture. He sees it all. It does concern me, though, that some of these impressionable
00:19:57
Speaker
teenagers go to the wrong place, and they are not heard, and they are judged, and they're not able to have an open conversation.
The Importance of Trust and Authenticity
00:20:07
Speaker
And I can't change the world, neither can you, neither can you, Laura. But if we really want these kids to know who Jesus is, we have to listen to them. And I say kids, but teenagers.
00:20:23
Speaker
There are some truths that are best shared from a stage and some truths that are best shared around a table. And it's important for us to recognize what those are because if I from a stage say something that's meant to be shared around a table, it's going to be rejected. And so Jesus had the saying, it was that the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few, which is why we always need more Holy Spirit filled adults that are willing to invest in kids.
00:20:53
Speaker
Because where are they going? I mean, you're saying where are they going to go? And that's always my question. Where are they going to go with these questions and concerns?
00:21:03
Speaker
If they don't come to us, you know, they're going to go to the internet, go to YouTube and search dating advice for teens. You are going to feel compelled to speak some truth to your young people when you Google that. It's kind of funny, but you know, that's resource number one these days as, as
00:21:24
Speaker
an adult myself, I oftentimes I need an answer to something. Sometimes it's medical related. Why does my shoulder hurt? Um, but I'm going to the internet for these, for these answers. And sometimes the internet has good answers for us. But when it comes to faith questions, oftentimes that's not at the top of the Google search list. And so the more we're brushing shoulders with our teens, the more we get to be that resource. Maybe they don't come to us first.
00:21:53
Speaker
but they'll come to us when they're ready for us. They'll come to us when they are ready to hear from us. And that's why that relationship again is so key. Because if they've trusted you for months to be with them or years, then when the heavy stuff comes, the heavy questions come, they're gonna, you know what? I have this trusted adult that may have been there before that I can,
00:22:17
Speaker
go to with this question, know that they're not going to reject me, even if they disagree with me, but I do want to hear what they have to say. Yeah. And that's something you learn, Jill, you'll learn this as your girls get older. Like that trust takes so long to build and it's broken in an instant, you know? So it's like, it's learning to talk with
00:22:46
Speaker
kids and not to them. It's about listening, you know? And it's like you were saying, Ryan, it's those caring adults who are willing to give two hours of their time a week to be with our teenagers and to care for them and to listen to them. And hopefully God will use that to reach out to the kids who don't have that in their life and bring them to it.
00:23:17
Speaker
Do you find that Ryan? Like are kids bringing friends who don't have faith in their family or don't have a source of that hope elsewhere in their life?
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah, we're starting to kind of see that. And I think mission one there is create a space that they feel safe in, create a space that they can trust and create a space that they can come back to or that they want to come back to. It's probably more important than just simply being able to come back. If you're starting at square one, right? That's the other difficult thing.
00:23:51
Speaker
in a student ministry space, you've got kids that did the K through eighth grade, you know, Sunday school experience. But then you've got kids that Christmas and Easter is about all they've come to church. Maybe they haven't come to church in years. How do you speak the truth and how do you speak things that reach both of those kids? And it's possible. It's just about, Hey, I'm going to speak to
00:24:22
Speaker
that lifelong church kid and that first time church kid, you might have a value system in your heart that has been developed over years. And as adults, it can be easy to be frustrated that teenagers don't have that same value system yet. Well, they're teenagers. That's the difficult thing. They look like adults, they can drive, they can get jobs. So sometimes we think they're grownups, but they're not yet. And they might act like grownups, they might appear like grownups,
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the most important thing to remember is where they actually are in their life and their journeys. They are still forming those values and those opinions. And so if they're not, quote unquote, there yet, whatever you define as their being, be patient. Well, what about you, Laura, though? Your girls have been a part of this. You've been a small group leader, right?
00:25:18
Speaker
I have served in various ways. Okay. But your girls have been a part of this. They have been under the teachings of Ryan. Like, do they come home and talk to you about this stuff? Do they, or do you, you know, I mean, you are in that situation where you have a household that everyone is following Christ. Everyone is on this journey and it's always been this way.
00:25:48
Speaker
So how does it look in your household when you know what they're doing on Sunday nights or whatever it is? Well, first of all, we, Justin and I started very early on making sure that we were safe people to talk to for our girls. So,
00:26:13
Speaker
I can, I mean, I've gotten it wrong so many times, but, um, so many times they'll ask a question or they'll make a statement and like internally I want to say, Oh, that's wrong. Or, Oh, you know, that's not, that's not what I believe. And I forced myself to go. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Tell me more about that. You know, just listening instead of reacting.
00:26:42
Speaker
We've kind of cultivated this dinnertime conversation. So dinnertime is our time to just talk about whatever. And literally it's limitless. Like we've had sex conversations at dinner. We've had the drugs and the alcohol conversations at dinner, you know? And just tried to really make it a listening on both sides. So what do you think about that? What do I think about that? And instead of using judging type words, being curious.
00:27:12
Speaker
Right. And so I think that transfers over a lot to faith. And so, um, my girls will come with situations with friends, you know, my, my friend is gay, you know, my friend, um, was at a party Saturday night and we talk through these things and we listen. And I think having Ryan and their small group leaders be another
00:27:38
Speaker
safe space to have those same conversations is huge because they are comparing. They are trying to see, you know, who's being fake, who's being like, you know, they're very wise to that kind of thing. So I fully believe that what Ryan said is true about having those five trustworthy adults in your life.
00:28:04
Speaker
And being able to have open, honest, non-judgmental conversations about faith and everything else is so key. What you said, Laura, reminded me of the counselor approach to things. And the counselor approach to things isn't just telling someone they're valuable and thinking that's enough. The counselor approach is
00:28:26
Speaker
getting them to a place where they see their own value, where they believe what's true for themselves. So it's not just saying what's true and saying what's right, it's getting that person to believe what's true and what's right. And so I think that's a better approach. I am not gonna say how to do that as a parent because I am not one.
00:28:46
Speaker
And I don't want to be presumptuous, but I think for our kids, the win again, isn't just to say what you feel is right.
Rebuilding Trust and Transforming Through Love
00:28:56
Speaker
It's to get them to believe what's right and true about themselves, about Jesus. Yeah. It's about them owning it. They have to own it or it's not authentic. And that is a more patient approach. That's the thing. That's what's tough about it. It's a more patient approach to get them there.
00:29:15
Speaker
Your kids might say things and ask things and feel a certain way about things. And it might take weeks and months and years of patience and listening and conversations. And prayer. And prayer. Oh, don't underestimate the power of praying for your kids. I have a question about those individuals that go to church
00:29:44
Speaker
or they don't go to church because they're sick of it, they're bored, they're this, they're that, they're just done. I know that there's sometimes where I hear parents will say, I don't even put up with the fight anymore, it's not worth it, they don't wanna get up, I don't even know. And then I've heard parents that'll say, nope, this is a priority, this is what's gonna happen. And then the kids start to resent their parents and it's just like, whoa, that's not what this is supposed to be about. But it becomes that.
00:30:13
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like in that scenario, there's probably been a loss of trust. It could be a loss of trust in your youth ministry environment or a loss of trust in your worship space on a Sunday morning. But at some point someone said, I'm not loving this, or this didn't hit me, this didn't reach me and it's been that way for a while and so I'm gonna walk away. And so I think,
00:30:42
Speaker
Our job as my job and our pastor's jobs is to find ways to rebuild trust, whether that's with the parents or the students or probably both. Can I rebuild trust between you and us as a church? Can I show that I'm there for you? Can I give you a space that you trust?
00:31:06
Speaker
But it's hard once you've experienced the church and found something you didn't like and have chosen to walk away. It's hard to come back. If my time this year specifically, but if my time doing this has taught me anything, it's that no teenager is too far gone. We have had teenagers kind of walk away after eighth grade and show back up in 11th grade or 12th grade. And you know, I may have mentally,
00:31:36
Speaker
mentally written that kid off as they're just not coming back. But you never know when they're gonna come back to your space. And so you always invite, you're always welcoming, and you're ready for them when they're there. I think that's why I always have a lot of pressure on doing the Sunday night thing well, because that's the space that they're gonna show up in if they haven't been here for a while.
00:31:58
Speaker
or Sunday morning, but the same truth applies there. If they're coming back in your space after being disengaged for a couple of years, that's why I put so much value on that experience, on how warm and welcoming our leaders are, how prepared my message is, how the navigation of a small group works, because that can be an awkward experience for a first-timer.
00:32:24
Speaker
But all of it to me is like, man, if I can provide a great experience, if I can provide warm relationships to them, then I've done all that I can do. And the rest is in God's hands beyond that.
00:32:38
Speaker
And teenagers are young adults who just want to be valued and loved for who they are, you know? And God does the transformation. We do the loving. They want to be talked with, not just talked at. Yes. And I've seen that a few times. There have been some specific moments where
00:32:59
Speaker
I've seen teenagers kind of being, you know, they were talked about like they weren't in the room, for instance, in a church space. They were talked about like they weren't in the room and they're like, I don't like that. I'm sitting here. Why are you talking like I'm not sitting right in front of you? You know, you're talking about me like that. You're also defining me in a certain way that I'm not defining myself as. It's about navigating those things where they can have a voice and be heard.
00:33:27
Speaker
But you know, as a parent and as a leader, you too also have a voice. Don't be afraid to share your voice. Don't be afraid to speak truth to your kid. Let's be reciprocal about that listening and that respect. Exactly. If you want your kids to hear and respect you, you should hear and respect your kids too. And that's how you build that trust back and you get to speak that truth.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, good phrase to use is, you know, as you listen to them. Thanks for sharing that I understand where you're coming from. Do you mind if I share my perspective and where I'm coming from? It is one thing that I have learned as a parent and on the different podcasts that I host and the parenting advice I get I've been given like, just because
00:34:18
Speaker
They're a teenager or because they haven't hit 18 and they're under your roof does not mean that they cannot be talked to as an individual, as a human being. You are their parent.
00:34:33
Speaker
and you can do the whole, I'm not their friend, I'm their parent, but you can respect them and get them to trust in you. And I, that is my approach even with three and five year old, you know? Like I want them to talk to me. I want them to tell me if they broke something and know that I'm not mad. I would be upset or angry if they lied about it. So we have to start talking about those things. And I wanna,
00:35:02
Speaker
kind of end our conversation where we kind of started and it was something that you brought up and I had written down, but the fakers, like they can see it. And so what I wrote was, okay, if a parent is a churchgoer only, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with just going to church on Sunday or just going on Easter or Christmas.
00:35:28
Speaker
I think what we're trying to say is when you start to walk alongside God more, like I'm doing, I start to feel the benefit more. I start to feel fulfilled. And so if these teenagers are seeing their parents go to church or in our particular church and what I do, join a community group or volunteer outside of church, make cookies for someone,
00:35:58
Speaker
When they start to see all these things that we're asked to do by Jesus, that's the impact. And you said that, and yes, they're gonna call us out. Well, because that is Jesus, that is the Holy Spirit working through you, and that is attractive.
00:36:22
Speaker
And these kids want to be with people who light up the room, with people who are making a difference in their community, with people who love others the way Jesus loves us. They want that. And so if they see that in you, they're going to want to be part of whatever you're part of.
00:36:45
Speaker
A lot of people have moments in how they observe their parents or their leaders. You'll never know when this moment is going to come. But I found over the years that a lot of kids will say, man, there was a moment when this happened and I could tell that it was real to this leader or to my parent being faithful and small and serving and engaging like you were saying. They might not notice that day one.
00:37:10
Speaker
They might notice it when it's been a tough week, things have been rough, you're frustrated, you're annoyed, and it's community group time. And you say to your kids, you know what, as frustrated as I've been this week, and as selfish as I wanna be, I'm gonna go to my group or I'm gonna go to church.
00:37:29
Speaker
Maybe that's the moment. I can't say when that moment's gonna hit, but it's that long game. I think that's, I've said that a few times, but to me, we get so caught up sometimes in the short game. I'm gonna be right right now, or I'm gonna say this right now and be right right now and hope that they just magically receive it. But maybe the longer approach, maybe a lifetime of walking with Jesus is what it takes.
00:37:54
Speaker
In the life of my friend who got baptized at an older age, it was a years long process. It wasn't, I said the right thing at the right moment and it solved everything. And so I think as a parent, I would say, when God, when we get to heaven, God says, well done, good and faithful servant. That's a lifestyle that God's calling us to, not just one moment.
00:38:19
Speaker
But if you're living your lifestyle like that, the moment you're hoping will happen will probably come. We are going to see exactly how this feels because we have some episodes lined up with teenagers. I'm so excited about that. Male and female.
00:38:39
Speaker
And Ryan didn't pay them to be on here and talk about how awesome he is. They are going to speak the truth. They're gonna speak the truth of their walk. And Ryan, I want you here because they do trust you. They don't know me, but they trust you and they're gonna be able to talk about these things that we have been talking about today.
00:39:05
Speaker
Get ready because it's going to be fun. We're going to have all kinds of different perspectives. And we're really here to just talk about the importance of the faith of the next generation. So please, please, please, please come back, listen and get ready for some inspirational stories.