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EPISODE 93 - Jaylen Brown gone?? with Cerrone Battle and Mark Dondero
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
ah All right, guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. I'm here. I'm Scott, your host with SavageBoston.com. Here with one of my co-hosts, per usual, Brett with SavageBoston.com. And here with two of the guys from 98.5 The Sports Hub who we've had Saron on before, our guy Saron, our local...
00:00:22
Speaker
our local b-ball expert and, you know, guy I respect tremendously, his opinions. And we got Mark Vendero here, who's another 98.5 guy. Love the
Unusual Off-Season Topics
00:00:31
Speaker
passion, love the fire from Mark, and love hearing him on the radio. i hope we get to hear him some more. So, yeah, I'm happy to have you guys on tonight, man. This is like It's been crazy. It's been busy. This is like, I'm happy we got some shit to talk about in the middle of June. Cause honestly, I thought it was gonna be fucking absolutely dead, like completely dead for months. Like as soon as AJ Brown hit, which I was talking about forever, you know, like as soon as AJ Brown landed, I thought it was me dead zone. So I'm happy to have some juice here, but
00:01:00
Speaker
You know, honestly, I feel like it's kind of it's like turning sour. You know what i mean? Like, I feel like the whole thing is kind of going sour already. I don't
Celtics and Jalen Brown: Trade Rumors and Decisions
00:01:07
Speaker
like how it's turning. So um I'm going to throw it. I'll throw it to you first, Saron. don't you just give me your initial take on how they've kind of handled the Jalen Brown situation and and how this is. ah I guess you you just just generally how have they handled it so far. Give me your take.
00:01:23
Speaker
I think, well, first of all, this whole thing started with, of course, the Yonis situation. And when you have a chance to get a guy won multiple MVPs, a guy that fills a need, you know, basically a seven-footer center in today's NBA, low post guy, fills a need for you, I think you have to pick up the phone. You have to make that call and see if you can get a guy like that.
00:01:44
Speaker
Now, you know, Brown's going to be in his feelings, any player be in his feelings if they were up for, you know, the name mentioned in trades or whatever. But when they didn't get him, I mean, Brown still feeling some type of way or whatever. I mean, it's a it's going to look bad when you miss out on a player. But I think they have to you have to make that attempt. I think it would look it'd look worse if we found out they could have had a chance at him and never even tried. I think that would have been worse.
00:02:07
Speaker
But look, Brown's going to be in his feelings like any player is going to be in it. Be upset about that. But I don't know how they handle it behind the scenes, but it seems like they're shopping them and trying to move on. And I think the biggest thing is, is he, is he initiating it? Is he the one saying I want out or they're saying, cause we're not going to give you the extension or whatever it is.
00:02:28
Speaker
Either way, it seems like they're ready to separate from each other. But I think we all can agree that one of the better moves they can make is not making a move at all. So we'll see, we'll see
Team Direction and Decision-Making Concerns
00:02:37
Speaker
how things play out. Yeah. Fair. Mark, are you feeling about it so far?
00:02:42
Speaker
Horrible. I hate this whole thing. I never wanted Jalen Brown involved in any type of trade discussions. I don't understand why we or how we've gotten here or why we're at this juncture.
00:02:52
Speaker
um You know, I have a lot of questions. Obviously, a lot of those questions were not answered in that press conference after the draft or during the draft or whatever that was. I don't understand.
00:03:04
Speaker
OK, because from my perspective, um when you move away From a player the caliber of Jalen Brown, I typically don't see it getting better. I typically don't see you going in the in the right direction.
00:03:18
Speaker
Usually you go in the wrong direction. So I'm really, this is a distasteful situation overall for me. um The Giannis thing was was, that was one thing.
00:03:28
Speaker
But that obviously didn't work out. And I think, I don't know, Cerrone, based on what I'm gathering, this isn't reporting or anything, but just following this and listening to everybody, it doesn't really feel like Jalen Brown is the one that started these started this action here. It sounds like, it feels like it was the Celtics.
00:03:47
Speaker
And I don't understand it. I don't get why at this stage of his career, coming off of the, unless it's strictly financial, yeah Why are you trying to move off of Jalen Brown?
00:04:01
Speaker
Giannis was one thing, but, and I get it. He's better on paper. Now, I don't know if he's better right now. That was, that was years ago when Giannis was the the real Giannis, the two-time MVP, all those things. I don't know what he can still do.
00:04:13
Speaker
I never liked it. I like this tandem. I thought they could have changed some things up internally that would have helped move them along and get that get the back to where they want to be. Moving Jalen Brown wasn't a part of that. So i'm
Internal Dynamics and Financial Considerations
00:04:27
Speaker
this whole thing ah pisses me off and I don't like where they are right now.
00:04:31
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Before I, before I, before I thought of Brett really quick, I just want to just to weigh in on that quickly. It's a huge topic. Like who started this, who, who wanted out? I heard one rumor that Jalen did go in and kind of express interest that he was, he kind of wanted his own team. I don't know if that's true though. That's like speculation.
00:04:49
Speaker
ah And obviously, you know, in my opinion, I think it's just money related. Like that's, that's my opinion. Cause again, we can go into depth with this, but like you're just not going to be a better team without Jalen Brown.
00:05:00
Speaker
That's my, that's my opinion. I thought you could have upgraded with Giannis. Like I thought there was room there that you were going to be a really dynamic team with Tatum and Giannis, but um you're not going to be more competitive, especially now next year without Jalen Brown. So um I don't love it. And it's I think it's just the ownership group looking ahead three years and saying, we don't want to pay $70 million dollars for a 33 year old.
00:05:22
Speaker
And they don't think they're trying to move on from the asset now for just looking at, you know, asset management, not them as people and just assets. I think they're trying to move on from an asset. Brett, you give me your initial take, Brett. how you feeling?
00:05:36
Speaker
Well, just to chime on that. I don't think it's a money thing because they were willing to go ahead and trade for Giannis and then extend for a guy that's 31 and coming off an injury. So yeah I don't think Giannis, but I don't think they want to pay Jalen. Sorry. Go for it.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, but you're paying a guy. So at the end of the day, you're willing to pay some money and for a premier star player. So to me, it's one of those areas where what was plan B?
00:06:03
Speaker
You went into this shopping Jalen Brown, understanding that the guy's already kind of a volatile guy as is and willing to speak his mind, which is fine. He has every right to do so. But you've got to recognize it's not Tatum.
00:06:19
Speaker
Like this happens to Tatum. He'll quietly be, you know, talking through, but he's not going to, he's not going to go live stream and talk about it with everyone else in the world. Jalen will. And so you piss the guy off by doing it. And then it's like, now all of sudden plan B we're shopping for pennies on the dollar.
00:06:36
Speaker
And like, to me, that's the part where it pisses me off the most. Cause I feel like you totally effed up. If you were going to push for Giannis, you should have pushed in hard enough to make close the deal. And if you couldn't,
00:06:49
Speaker
Plan B should have been figure out what we got to do to fit work through Jalen. And it seems like they just didn't foresee this going south. And now they're scrambling. And Brad looks very bad. And this is a situation where it is like detrimental to the organization. and where do you go from here? We can't look at it and...
00:07:10
Speaker
like close further on the window that you have with Tatum by trading this for assets that are sub what we have Jalen Brown and future picks to then try to reset the table. Like you got to try to be aggressive now.
00:07:24
Speaker
So if the, if they had pivoted early, I felt like it was salvageable with Jalen. Now I feel like
Team Chemistry and Trade Strategy
00:07:31
Speaker
it's it's gone. Like you have to trade. And because you have to trade, you have no leverage.
00:07:36
Speaker
And it's going to hurt your trade value. So it's just a giant misstep in my opinion. And I feel like they went into it without a plan B, which is mind boggling. Yeah.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. I think, yeah, Sir Owen, go for it. Oh, no, what I was going to say, I think the Celtics fell into the same trap we all did. Did we all overvalue Jalen Brown? Did we think that the league would be falling over themselves to try and get him?
00:08:01
Speaker
And I think we realized early on when Milwaukee said, no, we'll just take Tyler Hero and picks over Jalen Brown. I think that raised a lot of eyebrows. I think around the league teams like, no, we know we're good for some reason. I don't know why, but it just seems like he's not as valuable outside of Boston.
00:08:17
Speaker
as we think or even the Celtics think. But I'm not giving up on the fact that he could potentially be back. He could be upset. Players are upset all the time. They have to be professional at times to get through it. I think he he i think he can and will be professional about it if he's still around.
00:08:34
Speaker
I don't see him being the type of guy that will go in and you know, start throwing chairs in the locker room because he didn't he, you know, because he was mentioned in trade rumors. But I think they, with free agency starting up, the offseason really getting going, i think they're going to figure out a way. i try I believe in Brad Stevens to figure out a way to get this team where they need to be.
00:08:54
Speaker
But I agree with Mark early on. I think the first move that should have been made, my opinion, was organizational, how they play, the style of play. I think talent wasn't the reason they lost. It was style of play is the reason they they lost the last two years. And I look at the two teams in the finals.
00:09:09
Speaker
I don't look at them as both being overly talented. They both had two really good players. One, I mean, one really good player on each team, but they weren't loaded teams that we thought going in were going to be championship contenders.
00:09:20
Speaker
And I think around the league, teams have seen that and said, wait, maybe we don't need three superstars to win. But I think style of play is important here. And I think Mark was right in the beginning. I think changes on the sideline, my opinion, is where it should have started. But now that you've got this going, Brad Stevens got to really earn his money now and figure out how he's going to handle this situation, how he's going to save face, how this team is going to be going forward.
00:09:44
Speaker
And what can you put around Jason Tatum if you do move Jalen Brown? What kind of play are you trying to get in return? Yeah, it's I mean, ah i mean there's a there's a lot here. I think there's a lot to it. I just want to know, first off, like, why why don't they think they can succeed with Jalen Brown? You know what I mean? Like, like what's going on those meetings between you're talking, you're Brad and you're Bill Chisholm, right? And you're sitting there and you're like, why don't we think we can succeed and win with Jalen Brown?
00:10:12
Speaker
Is it truly like analytics like Bobby Marks alluded to that they think he's the seventh best player in a roster? Because that seems just a little silly to be fair. Like what what is it in that in that room? Because they're sitting there. You know they're sitting there talking like, okay, we got Tatum. All right, we have Jalen. Well, don't think – you know, Jalen's metrics, blah, blah, Like they're thinking about this shit like ad nauseum in a room talking about it. Like what – so what is it? Mark, you tell me. What is it about Jalen Brown that they don't think they can succeed with?
00:10:41
Speaker
You know, Savage, I wish I could answer that. the What I can't understand is I don't know how much more evidence you need. Do they think the partnership doesn't work? Because it seems to work pretty well, especially when you consider how they won the championship where Tatum put up a lot of, you know, had a good statistical run through those playoffs.
00:11:01
Speaker
But it was Jalen Brown, whether you like it or not, who won the MVP of the conference finals and NBA finals. So he obviously was doing something there that caught the eye of the voters, the public, et cetera. He had a couple of big shots, big shot against Indiana, big shot in game. What was that game four in Dallas towards the end?
00:11:17
Speaker
um That was a nice complimentary exhibit that they put on display there between those two superstars. You're also in the unique position of having, know,
00:11:28
Speaker
two guys that are all NBA players in this case Brown should have been on the first team this year just missed it whatever that were drafted in consecutive years and you got them kind of holding hands through this career they're having they've already won a championship that they've they they complemented each other well during that run I know players got injured and teams run at their best I don't care that doesn't matter I don't understand what more evidence you need to see that this can work that this should work and then you look at what happened in the NBA finals this year you look at the San Antonio Spurs a lot of talent a lot of good players young players um that should have been a big wake-up call for the Celtics for two reasons number one
00:12:08
Speaker
How many times did the three-point fail them? The three-point shot fail them. It failed them in one of those games. I forget which one it was. Game four, was it? The tip game when they shot all they went crazy in the first half and then dried up in the second. That's the life of living and dying by the three.
00:12:24
Speaker
Okay? So that was ah that was a ah knock against Joe Mazzullo. That game, he wasn't even playing. That was a bad night for Joe Mazzullo. And then the other thing, How many guys on that team were young, were huge contributors, despite the fact that they were within their first three years? and Now I understand Harper, Castle, they were top five picks.
00:12:44
Speaker
You haven't had that. But I mean, i just would rather take my chance with two superstars and I'll let Brad Stevens, who I still trust, fill out the rest of the roster.
00:12:56
Speaker
I don't understand why you'd want to go away from that and then and go with Jason Tatum. who isn't the perfect player by any, I love Tatum, but he's not the perfect player. There's issues with him. And then try to what?
00:13:07
Speaker
Surround him with talent? Surround him with supporting? but Like, I don't understand how you're going to get better moving on. We keep saying it, how you get better moving off of Jalen Brown. It's never made sense. I didn't even want Giannis. I didn't want Giannis.
00:13:19
Speaker
if If the Heat could put Tyler Hero in a deal for Giannis with picks, why couldn't you put Derek White in a deal with picks and other players? I don't get why Jalen Brown had to be in that deal. And I don't understand this whole thing. So I can't answer your question. I'm sorry, Savage. I don't know. it not I don't know what, I don't know where this came from or what they're thinking, or if there's an ownership or Brad move or an analytical move, which would drive me off the wall, off the cliff.
00:13:46
Speaker
Um, But I feel like we're going to find out more and more as we go along. yeah i I said the exact same thing, Dundaro. As it was going down, I was texting Savage and a few other guys, and I was like, why ah you telling me Derek White is not an equal value as Tyler Hero and then other assets we have on the team? like that Everyone says like that was a massive trade.
00:14:08
Speaker
And I look at it, I'm like, yeah, they got like some B and C player type guys and then a whole bunch of Picks, but like, don't we have that too? Couldn't we have matched that? I mean, imagine our team just clean the cupboards and just say you got Tatum, Brown, Giannis, and I don't give a shit.
00:14:26
Speaker
And you'd probably be a competitive team. I think you would have found ways to make it work at that sort of setup. But for whatever reason, we felt like we couldn't do Brown. And that's what I'm saying. Like we went into the trade willing to put Brown on the table for Giannis, but we wouldn't go the extra step to close the deal.
00:14:44
Speaker
And now you just just fucked it all up. Yeah, I think it was. um I'm wondering was initiated by the Bucs. I think the Bucs called and asked about Jalen Brown. I think that's where it got started. And it was like, well, you know, like again, it's Giannis. OK, we'll talk about that. We'll see what we can do. And then you hear about Brad not wanting to put other players in the deal.
00:15:03
Speaker
And, you know, they're in Miami going down to the wire, which I thought the Celtics were going to close that deal late at night. But. It seemed like it was initiated by the Bucs. The Celtics took the call. They was they was in on it.
00:15:14
Speaker
And then when it didn't go through, now you're stuck there with a mad Jalen Brown. But don i don't I'm not sure if they went into it this offseason as the season ended against Philly and said, OK, we got to move Jalen Brown. I think it was one of those, another superstar on the other end, star for a star. I think it's only thing we could agree to even move Jalen Brown for is another all-star caliber player.
00:15:34
Speaker
They had that guy. They had a chance to get that guy, and they didn't. Now it's how how do you how do you repair this? Or they looked at Jalen Brown and said his value would never be higher his now.
00:15:45
Speaker
He got MVP votes. He had a spectacular season. All-NBA, best two-way player in the league, all those things, him and Kawhi. And they figured if we move him, could we get multiple pieces to improve several sections of our team and make up the scoring in other ways? Like without Tatum this year, they were still one of the highest scoring teams in the league.
00:16:02
Speaker
They probably looked at that and said, hey, we don't need two guys to get 117 points. We got one in a full team around them. Maybe we can pull that off.
Player Relationships and Management Decisions
00:16:11
Speaker
But it just is not... unfolding the way I think they expected it to after the whole Giannis deal. I mean, something still might come through, but I think it's going to take a really good player in return and maybe a few players for them to be a good basketball team. i think they're going to be good, but to be a contender, you're going to need some really good return players plus some movement and free agency.
00:16:31
Speaker
Yeah, and Sarong, doesn't it feel like I'm not saying this is the case, but it feels like there's something that happened that made it, you know, that broke the camel's back.
00:16:43
Speaker
It made it untenable. Like, we can't keep Jalen Brown anymore. Yeah. I'm not saying that. Something happened. Yeah. i agree. It just feels like that. Like he did something off the record that we don't know about that. right. We can't, we can't be in business with that. He's got to go.
00:16:58
Speaker
I don't know what that could be, but that just feels like. I think something, something genuinely happened where I think he actually expressed interest in leaving the team. Like that would be, again, probably my opinion that there was no, it's not a demand. It's not, Brandon Ayuk, you know, making videos, trash, and but like like, you know what i mean? Like he went in the office, so I think he expressed interest in some capacity. Like, hey, like I wouldn't mind exploring other options. It could have been like a really gentle way to put it right to Brad. But I'm just more I'm upset about the process, right? How this has been handled altogether. I'm upset that a they didn't get the honest trade done.
00:17:37
Speaker
because I think they should have actually gotten that done period. Like if you had to include young guys, include young guys, like they should have to me gotten that done now that apparently the whole league is aware that you're blatantly shopping Jalen. You're not, this is not like a receptive thing now. Like you're making, making calls. You're, you're shut. You're literally, canvassing someone said today you're canvassing the league you're shopping jalen brown and then shams comes out and says you know one guy thinks you're getting 40 cents on the dollar and i'm just sitting here like how do we get here how do we get here like how fucking poorly manages this is brad like what i don't get what brad's doing like again like we all think brad is the the master plan guy and he's he's untouchable he's the best like he's the best gm in town does no wrong but
00:18:23
Speaker
I don't know, man. Like, could this have been handled worse? like Like, they devalued him completely. It's it's it's just like what Mark said, though. for For Brad to normally be on top of things and his whole front office would be that solid, for them to look this rattled, I agree with Mark. Something had to happen.
00:18:40
Speaker
something had to Something threw them off where they had to scramble. And I go back to the – I think you've seen it. It's been posted around a lot. A few years back, how he mentioned how he wanted to get his own team before, and Tracy McGrady talked him out of it.
00:18:54
Speaker
Like, no, I think you should stay. After having the season he had and all this success of being the man, that my best season of my career, most fun I had, whatever the words he used, I think immediately after that, he whispered around like, look, I kind of want my own deal.
00:19:10
Speaker
And maybe the Celtics are trying to do him a solid. Like, all right, we'll move you. You go to Milwaukee. It's yours. And it didn't work out. So now they're stuck and he's frustrated with ESPN and and Bobby Marks and everybody else.
00:19:21
Speaker
It's all just kind of unraveling. But I agree. Something had to happen. And I think he somehow, some way expressed interest of having his own team and being moved. And I think they tried to not only accommodate him, but figure out a way to keep themselves a contender while moving him and putting him in a good place.
00:19:38
Speaker
And they chose Tyler Hero, the local Milwaukee guy. And that's crazy you know now Now they're scrambling. But I but i agree with Mark. I think something something happened behind the scenes that got to self-scrambling like this. At some point they shifted.
00:19:51
Speaker
I'm not saying that something happened. I'm just saying it feels like that. It feels like it was some comment, some action. Something was said yeah where where Brad or whomever just decided he's clearly interested in something else and it's not us. So we're moving on. And that was it.
00:20:10
Speaker
That's what it feels like. Yeah. Well, I think, I think to come back to the point too, I think it feels like this is where I'm confused again. I'm confused apparently about a lot of this situation, right? As we all are, but here's where I'm confused. You started trying to do what felt like not just a unilateral move, right? For Giannis. Like it was a borderline mild upgrade. You're like, all right, we're going to get Giannis. Like we're okay. We're upgrading now. Like we got a rim protector, blah, blah, blah. Like we're going to upgrade this team. And you somehow now transitioned from being like, we're upgrading the team
00:20:40
Speaker
to were offloading pieces for first round picks. So where the fuck is that? How did that happen? and who's And I'm pissed kind of because we've just been watching it for the last week, being like, what's going on?
00:20:55
Speaker
Like what? And someone's in the comments here. It's the CBA. I get him in. I get the CBA is a problem and I get I get it. Like, I hate the CBA sucks. But like that doesn't explain like they should be if if they're trying to make the team better now, you got to try to go for for an equal talent or somewhat equal talent um NBA player rather than offloading for four four first rounders.
00:21:18
Speaker
Jeremy like yeah and and here's the other thing um the precedent just isn't there like I said when in the league now not that I've sat online and looked at every trade situation or every situation that's ever happened across the NBA but when is a second team all NBA guy in the prime of his career gotten moved and the team has gotten better um You know, off the top of your head, you if you just think of a million examples where they lost a star and everything got worse, at least for a while, before it came back up. I mean, the Thunder didn't make it back to the finals for a long time after James Harden left. The Lakers, when when Shaq left, Kobe, that wasn't a good team for a little bit. i mean, you could go on and on and on.
00:21:58
Speaker
You know, I don't even need to sit here and do it. um It just doesn't feel like in basketball that's the move. And the other thing that I haven't heard brought up but it's worth bringing up You know, if I'm Bill Chisholm, I understand that he's gonna have his own way of doing things, but I'm also sorta looking at what's going on across town with the Red Sox. And over there, you got an owner that won, he broke the curse, won four World Series,
00:22:23
Speaker
with different general managers, different managers, different star players, and everybody by and large can't stand the guy despite all the success. Why? Because they've gotten out of the business of winning the way they used to be in that business. and it So why you would ever, ever want to flirt with that type of identity is beyond me, especially as a ah new owner. You think you try to talk Jalen Brown um if he did approach you wanting his own team or something. would try to talk him out of it. I try to say, Hey Jalen, how about let's win another one here where you were the MVP of the fucking, the, the conference championship and the finals. Why don't we do that again? That will help your brand, your legacy, all of the above. That's what I would have wanted to do.
00:23:07
Speaker
I mean, unless unless it is coming down to they don't see him as a $70 million dollars player, a $70 million dollars a year player. I mean, the highest paid guy in the league right now, i think it's Steffi, like $58 million or something like that, and Jokic.
00:23:20
Speaker
Jalen Brown being $11, $12 million dollars higher than that, I think scares some teams. I think they see him as a short-term guy, and and I don't think anybody's going to extend him $140 million for two years, but that's that's the way it is in the league now, and since he was the first guy to
00:23:38
Speaker
so time and time will tell yeah um okay yeah yeah no it's it's yeah man it's it's been a mess and again like i'm just upset at i'm upset that they've decided on the fly they need to uh be rebuilding apparently now i think honestly the best case and and we can talk about how do we want to fix it right like what's the fixing at this point but i in my opinion the best case for the celtics as a team is you is you somehow, Bill Simmons alluded to this today. He said, you go sit down at Toscanos and you know sit down with six guys in a room, Soprano style. You know what I mean? And and that's, I mean, honestly, like that would be my best solution, right? It would be like, you find a way to convince Jalen to want to come back.
00:24:23
Speaker
yeah And i again, I don't know how that's going happen. I just think that's what I would want to that's what i would want to have happen. um Brett, I'll throw to you now, like how do you how do you fix this? like Where do you go from here? like Do you have a solution right now to the to the problem?
00:24:40
Speaker
Well, I agree. i would want them to keep Brown, and I would want them to then trade other pieces. like I'm okay trading a guy like White. I'm okay i'm okay with trading anyone else.
00:24:52
Speaker
other than Brown and Tatum, if it, you know, to get the right pieces around it. We all know we need a big, and we've talked about this. Brad talked about at the end of the year, Kata was a problem come playoff time. Like he was a basically a hole on offense. We were trying to run an offense with four guys and Kata was a problem. And I like Kata. He's a, he's a great effort guy. Great story.
00:25:16
Speaker
good off the bench piece that's going to give you good energy but we needed a big we need someone that helps and they went and they tried to get Vucevic that clearly failed miserably was terrible and so for me I look at it and say yeah let's let's get the Soprano table around and and pull old Brown back in i think it's tenable because ah you know he's He's had the same kind of relationships with these guys for a while, and Brown is a level-headed guy. Like I said, he's going to he speak his mind, but he's a level-headed guy, and he's going to recognize the landscape of things and whatnot. and
00:25:52
Speaker
you know He's got a good relationship with Brad, and I trust that. so I think that is tenable, and you can bring it back in. I just don't feel like that's the way they're going, which is what's frustrating me the most.
00:26:04
Speaker
other unless like everything is just utter smoke and GMs are just absolutely going through, but like, it doesn't like, why would the Celtics not dismiss that? Why would someone else not come out and say, that's not true. This isn't what we're doing, et cetera, et cetera.
00:26:17
Speaker
So to me, it feels like the Celtics want to move on, which is probably a case where, yeah, Brown basically said, I want out. And Brad's like, okay, we're going to move this guy and we're to see what we can do with it.
00:26:31
Speaker
And he's just not willing to bite because he knows he's getting 40 cents on the dollar. And he's like, this isn't worth it. And if it all goes south, I can go back to Brown and Brown will be OK.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah. But we just had a random comment that's gone on the board. I just shared it on the board as if the guy from Jacob Brindle from Twitter just said, have you guys watched the Celtics this year? Brown carried. Yeah, we all – listen, we watched of it. We've been saying this whole pod, everyone's like very pro-Jalen Brown in this pod. Like no one – I don't think anyone on this pod's been – Mark's been very pro-Jalen Brown. We've all been pro-Jalen Brown in this pod. Like we we think he's he did a great job last year. and And I agree. There's something going on with his with this contract. There's something sour about people valuing him. Like again, as Saron said too, like they're not valuing Jalen –
00:27:21
Speaker
uh, or people around the league aren't valuing Jalen as much as we're valuing Jalen. There's something that we're, we're putting a premium on him. I just, you know, when you go back to, uh, the stock market analogy, which is obviously the best analogy for something like this, where it's like, you don't sell a stock when it's down, you know what I mean? Like you don't sell low, you know, buy high, sell low is not the way to make money. You know what I mean? Like,
00:27:45
Speaker
You know, buy low, sell high, man. And I think the Celtics thought they were selling high. and apparently they didn't realize they they weren't. So, and if you, if again, if you find a way to reconcile the relationship, he's under contract for three more years.
00:27:59
Speaker
yeah Like, I don't know. Like, you can't, you can't just keep him at the money he's at or or are you afraid he's going to demand his extension and not play? Like, I'm just trying to like, what's the worst case here? Like, what's the worst case scenario? You know?
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah, I not think what you just said, I think i think if this a deal isn't made, I got a feeling he's going to be banging around. But I think you can. I think he's a cool enough person and a smart enough person and has the relationships with Tatum. with with He doesn't have a relationship with his ownership group. These guys are new guys here. But with Brad, I think they can sit down. And I think the way you fix it, you sit them down and say, OK, how do you want to do this?
00:28:39
Speaker
how do you How do you got Tatum? I got Tatum and Brown. That's it. It's Brad Tatum Brown. How do you guys want to do this? How do you guys want to play? Who do you want to play with? Who do you want us to go after in free agency? How can I make this good for you guys? What do you want here with this team? We're not going to just do everything around you. Now we want your input on this team and give him some power with how this team is ran and how, what kind of changes they make and how, what kind of style of play don't put it all in Missoula's hands and say, all right you guys just do it.
00:29:09
Speaker
give the players some input and give jalen brown and tatum some power here and i think he'll he'll stick around i think he's the kind of guy that will almost say get over it he's going to be he's going be bitter but i don't see him as a guy that's going to ruin the locker room and be a headache with his teammates and all i don't see that with either one of the two stars which is a very good thing but i think they can figure out a way to get past this past this trade season off season and then go into next season ready to play basketball but if If it's not a big deal out there, I'm not making it. I agree with you. I'm keeping him. You're under contract for three years. We're going to roll the ball out and see how it goes.
00:29:44
Speaker
But I'm going to give him input. I'm going to give him, you know, power of of the team. You guys, this is how we're going to do things. Give me your feedback. But I wouldn't treat him like he's just a role player, the seventh the best player on the team ain't going forward. I'm going to treat him like a true star and give him what they want. And I think i think you'll hang around.
00:30:04
Speaker
yeah Can I just say one other thing? Please. So joe so i have my issues with Joe Missoula. I don't know who's behind the analytical approach and the three-pointers, which I have an obvious distaste for.
00:30:19
Speaker
I think they need to change that. I think they need that approach to be a thing of the past. um I don't like his end-of-game execution necessarily, X's and O's, and all those things.
00:30:29
Speaker
What I will say, though, This, I think, could align with what we're talking about, with what Sarone was just saying about, and I'm with you, Sarone. I do think that this is a situation that can be saved.
00:30:42
Speaker
I do think that maturity um is on the side of the Celtics and Jalen Brown and the Stars, Tatum and Brown, and that they can find a way to figure out how to make it work again. I haven't given up on that, but this, I feel like could be a situation where Joe Mazzulla thrives. Like this should be one of the areas where he can be as effective as he is in any area as a head coach in the NBA, finding a way in a mess like this to to reach Jalen, to reconnect with Jalen in association with Jason Tatum too, and bring them back. And like, I don't know, take them to some movie or do some weird Joe Missouliism thing to get them reconnected, get them all back in the room on the same page.
00:31:28
Speaker
You know, fight. go Go fight each other. I don't know. Like, he he would do something crazy. But find a way a la Phil Jackson. That was his thing. that That's what I've always said about Joe Mazzulla.
00:31:39
Speaker
I read Phil Jackson's book, Eleven Rings. i don't know if you've read that, Sarone, but if you're a basketball nut, it's a great book. for but Like, a junkie for basketball. And he talks a lot in that book about, like, the importance of not just the X's and O's and and the on-court stuff, but getting those bulls and those Lakers teams to gel and to understand the common mission and work together and all that.
00:32:00
Speaker
I think Joe Mazula is decent at at least getting the guys to buy in to being a unit, to you know, make keeping them happy in the locker room and on the in the organization. That I feel like could be an area where he's effective in this situation.
00:32:15
Speaker
Find a way to get Joe Mazzulla linked up with Tatum, with Brown, and have him be a part of the process to find a solution to keep him here. Now, I don't know if that's going to be the case. I don't know if that's where they'll lean.
00:32:26
Speaker
But it feels like, based on what I've ah've learned about Mazzulla over the years, that's an area he could be successful if they decide they want to try to salvage the relationship. So he could be an X factor in all this.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah. Mark, let me, to respond to that quickly, because I like the point. I like the point about the mission. Right. Like think about the mission and like we need a mission. Right. We need a common goal. What was it? Ubuntu and and two thousand yeah take it. We had
Playoff Dynamics and Future Strategy
00:32:52
Speaker
the coal man. Like, and that you know, you know, Doc Rivers, the whole thing. Right. or That was that was that was legit. And so anyway, so the mission is important. Right.
00:32:59
Speaker
But to play devil's advocate slightly, you know, what was the mission when Jalen Brown was sharing statistics midway through the season about how good they were with him while Tatum was out?
00:33:11
Speaker
You know, like in the middle the year, like, oh, look at how much look at we're like the same and Tatum's not playing or how good how important was the mission to Jalen Brown when he came out two days after they blew a 3-1 lead and said it was his favorite season ever.
00:33:27
Speaker
That to me is like a clear indication that Brown he wasn't clued into the mission. His mission was to have an unexpectedly great season and really rally the troops and, and overcome obstacles. But like overcoming to Jalen, like he, he said that it was his best, his favorite season.
00:33:47
Speaker
And to me, like, you just can't say like, maybe like later in the summer, be like, I really loved this year. I love the guys. We overachieved. We, you know what mean? We were underdogs. We didn't have Tatum, but to do a two days after man where your fan base is really pissed off.
00:34:02
Speaker
You know, like it still feels weird. and And then he had an opportunity to correct himself days later. Right. And then after Brad Stevens spoke, he had an opportunity to correct himself and he doubled down. He goes, no, this was my favorite season.
00:34:17
Speaker
He doubled down. that That could be a moment, Mark. That could be the the situation right there. this is ah The Celtics are like the Dallas Cowboys, are the Lakers, the Yankees. They have fraternity.
00:34:28
Speaker
How many ex-players you think picked up the phone and called and was like, man, what is he talking about? You know what i'm saying? Like, this this ain't it. He should be upset losing to the Sixers, blowing the 3-1 lead to the Philadelphia 76ers.
00:34:39
Speaker
He should be... so upset that he shouldn't even be on the podcast the next day or two days later, whatever. yeah But to double down on that's a great point by you to double down on that. I don't think that was that went over well in that locker room, in that building with the organization.
00:34:55
Speaker
And to your point, it seems like he got a ah taste of being the man. And as the season went on and the people, even a the guy hates the most was yelling the loudest about him being an MVP.
00:35:07
Speaker
Look at what his Celtics are. Look how good they are without Tatum. Yeah, I think some of that might have got to his head. And then to end the season with that, after that performance, I think that might have ruffled some feathers in the building, and that could be a moment right there, Mark, to where someone said, you know what?
00:35:21
Speaker
Before this gets real ugly, let's see if we can get something get something for him, and then, bam, there's the Bucs right there with Giannis, and you have to make that call at that point. But, I mean, that could have been a moment right there. At that moment, at the end of the season, when he doubled down, like you said, that could have been the turning point with the organization where Brad, somebody said, you know what?
00:35:40
Speaker
I think we got to do something here. Here's where I... I just going to come in and say, here's where i disagree with some of the narrative, though, when it comes to, like, Brown's angle. You talk about mission, his motive, why would he say things like that?
00:35:53
Speaker
And the notion that he's saying it because there's somehow, like, he then downgrades Tatum and basically says, like, I should be the guy, not Tatum, and it should flow through me, et cetera.
00:36:06
Speaker
I just disagree with that. I just think he looks at it from the standpoint of, He wants people to respect his game. I mean, he said for a while, I think I'm the best two-way player in the game in the world.
00:36:17
Speaker
He's talked about like how he was able to carry the Celtics. And anytime someone basically pushes down on what he did, he tries to add to it and says, like no, look at me. and And I don't take it from the standpoint that he's trying to slight Tatum.
00:36:32
Speaker
I just think it's trying to put some respect on his name. And I don't see... anything from Tatum or the organization or anyone else that would think otherwise that's in his side.
00:36:43
Speaker
To me, I think it's just everyone else out outside of it that he gets mad at and lashes out with, which is why I do think it is tenable. And just to kind of chime back in on Dundero, like I think about the Missoula effect coming into the Celtics.
00:36:57
Speaker
I mean, he made – Tatum ultimately buy in to what we needed Tatum to buy into. And I forget when it happened, but I remember there was like an interview and they're talking about him working with Tatum. And they said something to the effect of, you know, how have you helped to teach him how he has to deal with the media pressure and this and that. And Missoula and Missoula way just cut her off and basically said gets to.
00:37:22
Speaker
He said he gets to deal with that pressure. He gets to have all of that issues. He goes, this is you want to be a superstar. This is the privilege you get. And it was like just that mindset change. And you can see that happen throughout the rest of the Celtics where they buy into that mindset and crazy. Now, X's and O's and how he approaches the game.
00:37:42
Speaker
I agree too many three threes. It drives me crazy just as much as everyone else. But like when it comes to his ability to connect with the players and they're willing to listen to him, I think he still has that room a hundred percent. And I think he can try to pull that back in, but when it comes to Brown and how he's lashing out, I don't see this as anything else other than him just wanting to be respected and considered that top guy in the league.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. I just, I don't think that that comment, obviously I didn't, ah I didn't, like the comment um especially the timing and the platform and all that but i that wouldn't have been enough for me to say oh that's it he's out he's he's not here he's not with us 100 now if i if he said that and then i brought him in and had an additional conversation and he echoed similar sentiments and he doubled down to me and it said other things i didn't like okay that could have but You know, to me, I was never really one to kill him for what he said, even though I didn't really like it in the timing.
00:38:40
Speaker
You know, he was probably just caught up in his feelings. The team was just beaten after having a 3-1 lead. And he was, you know, I looked at at him kind of defending his guys after they overachieved all year. Now, does that mean a lot? No, to me, because the NBA regular season, I think, is a farce.
00:38:58
Speaker
But to him, you know, they battled, they got to the whatever, the two seed. They, you know, they didn't, they didn't lay down when Jason Tatum wasn't in there. He had a great individual year. Like, I don't think.
00:39:09
Speaker
I don't think that was the worst thing I've ever heard said. So it would have had to be more than just that one comment on the stream, even though that could have been the comment that offered the insight into the comments that ultimately um led to the decision that we have to move off of Jalen Brown unequivocally.
00:39:25
Speaker
So we'll never know what those comments or what that conversation was like. But I just... You know, I'm not going to kill him for that one comment, even though I despise the stream. He doesn't need to talk. I like, I like Saron. I like how you said the fraternity comment too, because, you know, kind of reminded me of, do you remember when, I mean, of course you guys do. but Remember when Brady said he didn't have a dog in the fight?
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah. Before the Superbowl. How did his former teammates respond? Yeah. Not fucking well. And I know,
00:39:57
Speaker
but We heard a lot even publicly, even like someone like Teddy Bruschi publicly who took Tom to him was like, that you know, is like younger than him. You know, he was like the ah the upstart when Bruschi was there, right? We're all in probably similar-ish ages. And like, you know, Bruschi was there. He was the guy. And and Brady to come out and saying there's no dog in this fight.
00:40:17
Speaker
Again, like I think his teammates and former teammates took extreme exception to that. Now, I just wonder, and again, I don't know if we'll ever know this shit between – Jalen and Jason. I don't know if we'll ever know the details. Maybe Himmelsbach comes out with a piece and he's because we know he's the mouthpiece for Brad. You know, maybe he's he's going to come out with a piece after and say just something happened with the relationship and they couldn't fix it. But I don't know. It just it can't it couldn't have gone over well, certainly with Jason, when basically Brown's favorite season was the one Jason didn't play.
00:40:51
Speaker
and And they lost in the first round. And I think this, our job as media and, that you know, me, like I'll, you know, take clips or whatever and post them and you guys talk about them on the radio, right? Like our job is to parse parse words and parse language and figure out, right? Like what are people saying? Like we're dissecting this stuff. There's some potential that they're like, i don't give a fuck with jake i don't give a fuck what he says on that.
00:41:13
Speaker
Like they might not care at all. Tatum's like, I don't care. Like Tatum's a laid back dude. Like he might not care at all. Right. But there's at least in our opinion, something something happened here. Something happened to the organization because in no right mind would they be selling a player like this.
00:41:29
Speaker
and and but kind of embarrassing the player almost that like he's out there every day in the public eye like hey he's no value he's like he's getting ripped apart right now and I think honestly like I don't think I don't think they can bring it back I want them to bring it back I don't think it's solvable like I guess there's a different way to form the question then we'll kind of round it up in some way but like do you think the relation they can repair the relationship like do you think it's uh repairable I think it is.
00:41:59
Speaker
i think it's possible that they can if all parties want it to happen. Jalen Brown has to want to repair the relationship. He has to want to stay. Brad has to want him to stay and all the other pieces, you know, ownership, whatever.
00:42:13
Speaker
But if Brown has one foot out the door, I don't think there's anything you can do to save it. And you have to go ahead and make the move. I mean, I don't know what he can do to to to sabotage the Celtic season or or anything like that. But if he wants to go and he's letting it be known that our now, maybe he didn't feel that way before the honest deal, but now he does and you have to deal with it.
00:42:34
Speaker
I don't think there's any way you can save it. You have to do what's best for your team. And now it's hard to find a good deal for this team. Everything looks terrible. But if the guy wants out and he wants to move, I don't think he's needing you do with it. But if he's willing to stay.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, you sit down, you have that conversation and you invite somebody over to the crib and you all sit around and and and hash it out. Get all your frustrations. I'll get everything out. if You're sitting there crying. oh it So be it.
00:42:57
Speaker
Because we've seen. NBA players who've been mentioned in trades with trades have basically gone through where they had, i think it was the story of Robert Orr was on a flight going, being traded. And then at the last minute, they had to tell him turn around and come back. He ends up winning two two championships.
00:43:11
Speaker
We've seen this situation play out before and you got to be professional about it. But if the guy wants to be a star, he wants to move on, is nothing you can do, then you can't really work it out. But I think I agree. I want him to stay.
00:43:22
Speaker
I think there's a chance he can. But if he wants to go, I think it's a done deal and they have to make that move. Where are you guys on the relationship between Tatum and Brown right now? I can't imagine it's like that amazing at the moment.
00:43:37
Speaker
Like, like it just doesn't feel, I think if it, if it was truly awesome, you would have actually heard something from Jason probably but like publicly. Like, I think if they were truly supporting each other, be like, Hey, listen, like,
00:43:49
Speaker
I love Jalen. That's my guy. We've won together. We're buddies, you know, whatever whatever, right? Like they would be, but like, I think they were in Paris, like one day apart from each other. i don't even know if they hung out.
00:44:01
Speaker
you know what I mean? Like, did they hang out in Paris? Like there's no photos of them together. yeah Jason's at the club with Draymond Green. You know what I mean? Like, was he hanging out Jalen too? Like they're they're almost at like the same event.
00:44:12
Speaker
So again, to me, if that's your buddy and there's this many rumors swirling, you'd probably do something to acknowledge that you still are and in good standing. That's that's my kind of take on that. what I would add to that.
00:44:26
Speaker
The Patriots, excuse me, the Celtics, they remind me of the Patriots when Belichick and Brady were still here because now they don't let nothing out. you you very I mean, you hear leaks in the media, certain things, but when it comes to relationships and personal stuff like that, you really don't hear anything, and it kind of seems like they're I wouldn't say told, but brainwashed, like, you would don't say anything like don't whatever. Jalen Brown speaks his mind. But when it comes to teammates and stuff like that, you never really hear them speak in good or bad. You never really hear them say anything.
00:45:00
Speaker
And you find out through podcasts and some stories, some leaks, whatever about what's going on behind the scenes. But they're very good at keeping things in house, even down to their relationships. And it leads a lot of people to assume either they like each other they don't like each other or whatever.
00:45:15
Speaker
But it's just they're very good at being secretive. So yeah to me, Tatum and Brown have been quiet over the last decade. And I can i i see that continuing. Even if they're texting and talking with each other, we'll never find out how they how they really feel about each other.
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah, because that – mean, based on teams – obviously, I didn't play in you know professional sports. But you would think if if Tatum hears Brown say something like that, you send – I would immediately send a text and be like, I'm sorry, your your favorite season when I'm hurt? Fuck you, bro. And you go back and forth like, no, no, no. i sorry i just meant that And then you'd be cool. Like if they're really boys and there's nothing going on, that's how – that's one way that situation could have been handled. It would have been a nothing thing.
00:46:01
Speaker
And we could have made a big deal out of it. But I just I'm interested because I feel like that's a huge piece of this. If Jason Tatum is interested in keeping Jalen Brown here, wouldn't that factor in in a large way to what the Celtics are trying to do? I don't know.
00:46:17
Speaker
That's a great that's a great way to look at it actually like if Tatum wanted Brown around, wouldn't Brown be around? Yeah. If he was going to genuinely become unhappy with the, with Jalen Brown leaving.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like that would impact the Celtics actions. That's how yeah I feel. Like if he went to Brad and and Bill Chisholm he said, Hey, I really want Jalen here. He's my guy. I need him here. We're teammates and we can win together. Don't you think they would keep Jalen?
00:46:45
Speaker
Yeah. or Or I'll take it a step further. um And maybe I'm wrong. I know they don't want to be involved necessarily, but I don't know. Would the Celtics consult Jason Tatum about this? If they were going to really try it. I feel like that's not a bad idea.
00:47:02
Speaker
It's like talking to Drake May about AJ Brown. You know what mean? Yeah. Like you're going to, here's a question for a guy. i don't know how this, because everyone's talking about Duren from Detroit, who's a really good young center. Who's like really talented and wants out of Detroit. i don't know if they're going actually trade Duren, but what would a trade package look like? I'm not the trade package fucking guy. Like, it's probably maybe Sarong can cook up a trade package. I don't get the NBA is weird to me. The numbers. The numbers are weird. Like, I like football where you just trade the fucking guy. Like, you want the guy? Trade the guy.
00:47:32
Speaker
You know, like, NBA with the matching salary, it's killing me. Like the salary shit's killing me. It's not, it's like my least favorite sport when it comes to trading and deals. I'll be like, oh, hey, how
Roster Reshaping and Strategy
00:47:43
Speaker
about this trade? Everyone's like, dude, that doesn't work. I'm like, all right, I'm fucking done with my trade. You gotta line the money up.
00:47:49
Speaker
I'm being too. Well, that's why that's why you get all these multi-team trades to make all of the money fit and how those go through. It's fucking stupid. it's It's impossible. i don't I mean, those are for the experts that go through. When it comes to Brown and Tatum and their relationship, to me, like I just always viewed them as being professional.
00:48:08
Speaker
like I don't think they're boys. They hang out. they like Families are best – friends with each other, et cetera. Like, I just think they're professionals. And you see that on teams where you look at and they're like, like clearly Tatum and White have a better relationship than Tatum and Brown.
00:48:23
Speaker
Like you can just tell just how they interact, how they do press conferences together, et cetera. You can just tell. They're good friends. Yeah, they're good friends. That's a good friend for Brown and Tatum. I think they, I don't think they dislike each other.
00:48:35
Speaker
I just think they've always had a professional relationship and I just think they just don't necessarily have common ground on other aspects that they're just like, yeah, we, you know, we play together. We do great together. i respect his game. He respects my game, but like, we don't go hang out. We're not boys that chill on the weekends and whatnot. Like, and I don't think that's necessary either.
00:48:56
Speaker
i mean, you had freaking Shaq and Colby that hated each other. You know, and that obviously seemed to work out for a period of time. I don't think it's I don't think they just like each other. I just think they've always been professional. And I would be surprised at Tatum not saying something other than the fact that Tatum doesn't say like anything like the guy is super quiet. And I think that is intentional. I just think he loves to talk about him.
00:49:19
Speaker
But anything else after that, he doesn't really care to talk about it. I think you might have hit on something there. I'm just just pure speculation here. You mentioned Jason Tatum's relationship with the other players on the team.
00:49:30
Speaker
Jason Tatum's impact with the honest trade could have been Tatum didn't want some of his guys to go to Milwaukee. Not so much Jalen Brown. No, you're not trading Derek White. Right. No, I like I like Hugo. I like Peyton Pritchett.
00:49:43
Speaker
No, you're not including Sam Houser. I like those guys. I play well with those guys. You know what i'm saying? Like Tatum's relationship, you can see he's close with like you mentioned with Derek White some of these other guys. Could that have possibly been a reason why some of these deals aren't going through for Jalen Brown and why they're reluctant to add these other guys, not because they think they're great players, because they they know those are Tatum's guys. Those are the guys that are untouchable.
00:50:06
Speaker
And i said that's just me throwing that out there. As you said that about Derek White, I'm like, yeah, Tatum, does he did have a relationship with some guys, and you can see the way they they behave on the court, pregame, middle of the game, after the game, all that stuff.
00:50:19
Speaker
could Could some of these moves... be getting cut down because Tatum is like, nah, you're not you're not. These guys are off limits. Make the deal with these players over here, but not these three or four guys. These are my buddies here.
00:50:30
Speaker
These are the guys I want to play with. And if if if I'm going to be the last man here, I have say in with the other guys that are going to out here on the floor. And but to to the point of the Duran,
00:50:42
Speaker
If they can get him without giving up Jalen Brown, you put them in the finals. but That's exactly right. That's the type of move you're looking for. Yeah, that's now you – I'd give up the whole bench for that. I mean, yeah that's – If you get Tatum and Brown and they got a low post guy like that who we saw come into the garden and give them, what was it, 28 and 18 rebounds in 28 minutes, if you get a young guy that can do that in the post – Man, they they probably would have won it last year, but that's that's the kind of move you make to where you're right back as a contender if you can do it without getting rid of Jalen Brown. But I don't know how they make those moves now, and I don't know how they go forward with this.
00:51:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny that they, you know, Bill Simmons alluded to this too. He was saying how, you know, when he's talking about Hugo, Hugo Gonzalez for Giannis Simmons was like, well, you can't possibly trade Hugo.
00:51:31
Speaker
And then, then in like the week, a week later, he's like, how come no one wants to give up a Klingon to, for Jalen Brett? Like, you know, like, You can't value your own role player young bench dudes developing players that much higher than some other teams. All franchises have young cost-control players they like.
00:51:55
Speaker
you know like Yeah, everyone likes Hugo. We all want to watch Hugo. He's a fun player. Baylor Scheinman I thought was really good when he played. I like Baylor. He's a pretty solid player. Good effort guy. love him off the bench like there's a lot there but like we were talking about yannis dude there's good it's yannis like we're trying to win and now again we've reverted kind of to are are we trying to win what are we what are we trying to do are we trying to win are we trying to build are we trying to change picks into players like i don't know what the plan is and i'm Again, i hope I hope we find out. but All right, so we're at 52 minutes, and I won't keep the guys much longer because because we're getting late on it. so and Does anyone want to give a final? don't you to go around and just give me your final take, anything you want to get off your chest about anything. Brett, I'll kick it off with you. Any any final takes you got?
00:52:43
Speaker
that this is a very annoying story to have to navigate through around July 4th, just waiting to know what's happening. Cause I agree. I mean, we talked about, we thought we'd have the dog days of summer and that essentially we wouldn't have anything to talk about.
00:52:58
Speaker
I'd much rather talk about nothing than this. Cause I want to make sure that at the end of the day, the Celtics are competitive because right now there's red socks suck. The Bruins, like, I don't know what we're doing there.
00:53:11
Speaker
And, and We need something. We need something other than the Patriots. I needed the Celtics to stay competitive. I wasn't a big fan Giannis, but I would have been okay if they closed the deal. They didn't. And now this saga just keeps rolling and rolling.
00:53:26
Speaker
I need closure. I just need closure to go through the summer and enjoy it and not have to be stressing over what the fuck the Celtics are doing. That's
Conclusion and Anticipation for Patriots Training Camp
00:53:34
Speaker
fair. Who's that? say Yeah, go for it. If they, the Celtics deal Jalen Brown, um,
00:53:42
Speaker
they will unequivocally end the the window that features Jason Tatum. I don't think they'll ever get back to the finals. They certainly won't win the finals. I think at best, they will become one of those teams that we used to see. You remember, that I always bring this up, but the 2002 Celtics that went to the Eastern Conference Finals had to come back over the Nets. It was fun. we remember that.
00:54:07
Speaker
But the whole time, it was fun. But we knew they were never going to beat the Nets, even though it was fun and they had to come back. They were never going to beat the Nets, let alone the Lakers. They weren't on that level, but they were able to make a run and the East wasn't, you know, filled with great teams and they, it was, it was enjoyable.
00:54:25
Speaker
That will be the best case scenarios for these Boston Celtics for the rest of Jason Tatum's career. If they get rid of Jalen Brown, they will never be able to adequately replace him in time. And if they try those players, those picks will not be ready in time for Jason Tatum to be able to capitalize on them. If they get rid of Brown, that window is closed.
00:54:44
Speaker
Done. Yeah. I think with me, with this team, I think, like you said, getting rid of Brown, I think it puts you in a tough spot. We'll see how good Brad really is if he makes that move going forward. And we'll find out how good a head coach Missoula is, because I think if you give it to Jalen Brown, Missoula's days are numbered, because if this team goes 500, he's as good as gone. And Sam Cassell is probably a new head coach or somebody else.
00:55:06
Speaker
But is there's a i think there's a... ah a domino effect here of things that can happen with this franchise. If you get rid of Jalen Brown and then don't get anything major in return, but just in general with this team, what I want to see going forward, I think they need a ah as close as you can get to, to a true point guard.
00:55:24
Speaker
I think they need a guy that always brings the ball up, that always handles the ball that always gets them, gets them in the offense, not Brown or Tatum dribbling, bring on the ball up, turn it over. I think they need a guard. We all understand they need bigs. They need somebody that can play. I love the draft.
00:55:38
Speaker
I think that kid reminds me of Sean Marion a lot, but he's not a big player, but he does play. He plays big. um I think they need more size, but i think they need guard play. And I think the biggest thing for me, regardless of who's on this team come opening night, November, Halloween, whenever it is.
00:55:56
Speaker
I want to see how this team plays because there's no way you can run it back with that same offense that's gotten you put out in the last couple of years, throwing up 45, 53 pointers with ah ah basically a different roster.
00:56:09
Speaker
The biggest thing I'm watching is Joe Mazula and how he coaches his team going forward. And regardless of what kind of players they put on his team. So I want to see a guard somehow some way in this free agent period in this offseason and see what they do with the center position.
00:56:23
Speaker
Because that's going to determine how far this team goes, regardless what happens with Brown. You want LeBron? No. um um i don't think I don't know where LeBron, I think...
00:56:35
Speaker
we'll probably end up on the Warriors with Kari and that'll just be like, again, retirement home jokes. And there's this. Just, I don't know, dude. I think that'd be so disrespectful to Curry. How's Curry going to get a farewell tour if LeBron's sitting there getting all the, you know, stealing all the light from him? Does Curry you really want to play with LeBron? i mean, maybe he does. I don't know. But, um but yeah, man. Well, I appreciate you guys coming on. It was good show. And there's there's a lot happening. Like said, we got about 25 days till Patriots training camp. which I'm like i'm like dying. i' I'm trying so hard, man. I'll be down at that first training camp, and I'm just stoked to get down there. and and Looking forward to it.
00:57:16
Speaker
I'm so stoked, man. I'm just ready for football, so of course. But all right, guys. That joint practice with the Eagles going to be lit, man. I can't believe it. I'm going to be there, too. It's going to dope. I'll catch you guys later. Peace. All right. Thanks, man.