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EPISODE 89 - What we're hearing on Stefon Diggs
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Introduction and New Website
00:00:02
Speaker
All right, we are live. Welcome back. This is the Savage Boston podcast. It is, what day is this? Not Tuesday, as usual. We're recording Thursday, June 4th, 8.45 at night. um Yeah, man, it's been great glad to have you guys back on here, which is fun. I'm Scott.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm here with
AJ Brown and Stefan Diggs Trade Rumors
00:00:23
Speaker
my normal co-host, Brett and Snooty from savageboston.com. New website up and loaded. Go check it out. um Got a lot of awesome articles on there.
00:00:35
Speaker
More cool stuff coming. So I'm excited to launch that and have a ah cool space for people to to write and be published and and for creators to get their their voice out there if they otherwise couldn't. So that's at savageboston.com.
00:00:49
Speaker
And I'll be sharing articles pretty consistently on there. So, but yeah, man, so this is ah this is a huge week. i was able to, i was on Foxborough Fellows pod on Monday night after AJ Brown got traded, which again, we, we thought was coming, you know, forever.
00:01:05
Speaker
That's something that, uh, you know, it's obviously been talked about for many, many months, but, um, I kind of want to start today off, like before we talk about AJ Brown and and how he looks in practice and all that stuff.
00:01:18
Speaker
Um, kind of the the most current rumor, the thing is like a hot takey is, is Stefan digs and what happens with Stefan digs. And so I just want to touch on that first. And, uh,
00:01:29
Speaker
Before I go on, like what I'm hearing, why don't you guys kick it off? Snooty, you can go
Snooty's Take on Diggs and Team Dynamics
00:01:33
Speaker
first. Tell me kind of like, what's your feelings on Diggs? And, you know, do you would you want him back? um I mean, the talent in and of itself, sure.
00:01:43
Speaker
But he's an alpha, right? Or like that alpha mindset. Like, is he willing to take a lesser role in order to come back um and try to accomplish, you know, what they they fell short of last year? um Because that's kind of why Brown was so upset in Philly, right? Was that he...
00:02:03
Speaker
um You know, that he he wasn't getting into the touches that he liked. He wasn't getting the looks that he liked. And that was with Devonta Smith, who's a admittedly a better receiver than Stefan Diggs. But, like, if Diggs comes back, he's not going to get the same level of production that he did last year. He's just not. So, like, in and of itself, sure. Yeah, absolutely, right?
00:02:23
Speaker
But how is the how I question how the locker room dynamics would play with that. Yeah. but How do you feel about it Brett? Not concerned at all about locker room dynamics. The way I look at it is it's really one of those low risk, high reward type signings.
00:02:41
Speaker
You basically look at it and say you don't really need him, but obviously you add him to the mix and your team is just that much better. You're that much more dynamic. So,
00:02:53
Speaker
Bring them in. And as I said, when it comes to the contracts, like this is a time to maximize because we're obviously not paying top dollar to May. We're not paying top
Impact of Diggs and Team Strategy
00:03:03
Speaker
dollar for our left tackle, right? That's rookie Will Campbell. That's coming up.
00:03:08
Speaker
I'd like to see us get on Gonzo. I'll keep beating that drum. I'd like to see that get extended. But you can absorb a contract, which I don't think is going to be crazy for a guy like Diggs. Bring him in.
00:03:19
Speaker
understands Rabel, understands May, seems like a really great guy in all accounts last year on the team, like good soldier type guy. He just fell off as he got into the playoffs. He comes in here. He's going to have way less coverage on him because now he's got better tools around him, and he becomes another weapon for Drake May. If things go south, he becomes a cancer in the locker room.
00:03:41
Speaker
You cut bait, right? It's not going to be one of those things where you feel like you have to be obligated to work right out with this guy. You can find ways and cut bait. But to me, if he comes in here and he does the same thing that he did last year, it is absolutely a win and something they should pursue. Now, do I think it's going to happen? I don't know. I mean, I'm probably more up to like the 60-40, like 60 yes, no.
00:04:04
Speaker
and which is better better than it was like two weeks ago, just because he hasn't signed anywhere and it's getting like louder and louder to make me feel like there's something there. When there's smoke, there could be a fire.
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah. So, um so what I was, we were talking about before we, we went live, right. Just talking around with a few people, right. Just, so there seems to be a lot of smoke.
00:04:31
Speaker
um And a couple pretty reputable, let's say, New England guys are are pretty high on the idea of him coming back. Heard the phrase from a few people, you know, if the money's right, Diggs should be back, which, again, that's pretty strong. Like should is pretty strong.
00:04:49
Speaker
um Again, take this all with a grain of salt. None of this is from, um i don't know, this is from guys who, you know, it's smoke. it's it's It's fun. It's smoke. It's not someone making a report, right? These are guys talking. So, um you know, I checked in with ah with a reporter, a New England reporter today about it, who said Diggs, the Patriots weren't in on Diggs back in like, you know, March or so. They didn't want him back.
00:05:16
Speaker
um And that was probably, i assume, in relation to the price tag digs had at that point, right? Maybe that was
Keishon Booty Trade Speculations
00:05:23
Speaker
pre-cutting digs. I'd have to go back and check the dates. But I think obviously things can change. And, you know, again, that the the person, the reporter I checked in with admitted, you know, sometimes things can change. So, um so yeah, nothing nothing definitive. But definitely talking around, there's there's a couple guys that really believe this is something that can happen. So just just pivoting to, I think, the money about it.
00:05:49
Speaker
oh Why don't you go, Snooty, what do you think is a fair a fair comp a fair contract or comp, let's say, for for someone like Stephon Diggs right now in like a third receiver role?
00:06:03
Speaker
um Yeah, i mean, ah so it won't be what he was making before. um I'd say you're looking somewhere at least in the $8 million to $10 million range um with likely incentives to you know boost it from there.
00:06:17
Speaker
um Because, look, I mean, look if he plays, if he signs, he plays, and he puts up the numbers, then... you know hats off to him he deserves the money right um but it won't be what he was making last year I mean I'm not even overly concerned with the cash um they have ah they have the money they have the cap space they can make this happen it's a question of are they willing to get to go the distance to make it happen yeah no fair what do you think's a fair contract Brett It's going to be in that range. So 10 is 12. I wouldn't pay.
00:06:50
Speaker
i wouldn't pay much more than 12. But to Snooty's point, it's not my money. So I don't really care. They're not. and It's not a cap issue. It's a straight cash issue. ah Because this is gonna be a short term deal. There's gonna be a lot of different ways to manipulate it. So that's not the issue.
00:07:04
Speaker
I think, again, the biggest thing that I look at is what does this do in relations to what you're going to do with Gonzo? I mean, they restructured on Wenu, which made a lot of people believe that, okay, well, maybe this has indications that we're going to do something towards Gonzo.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so far, nothing's come to fruition. And we're coming up on mandatory camps. It's, I mean, Gonzo wants the contract, so it's in all likelihood he'll be the guy that's showing up at mandatory camp in gym shorts and just sitting on the sideline. So to me, like, ah cash is not an issue. Salary shouldn't be an issue when it comes to digs. If you want the guy, you go get him, like,
00:07:44
Speaker
That's it's nothing crazy. It's really about how does that position you for Gonzo and what are you really going to do
AJ Brown's Role and Team Fit
00:07:51
Speaker
there? Because that's that guy's long term and that guy's in a premium position that you got to figure it out. So we've done a lot of moves this offseason. We keep making the I think a lot of the right moves. But the one move that we just have held over that I want to get settled is that Gonzo contract.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, i think with Gonzo, though, like, so there was, they mentioned it today on Pat McAfee's show where they had Rappsheet on, Ian Rappaport, and said, basically, Rappaport says he thinks the contract gets done.
00:08:22
Speaker
He's like, basically, you know, don't worry about it kind of vibe. It's very light, like, I wouldn't worry about it. Also says he doesn't think it's getting done in the next, like, day or two. So, you know, which tells you, again, there's there's stuff to wait for with Gonzo. Like, is this a deal where, you know, again, are we waiting for Witherspoon first?
00:08:39
Speaker
right with Cause again, they, they work for the same agency. So they're the same agency works for them. I should say, you know, so are we waiting on witherspoon? Are we waiting to check his deal? Is he getting top of the market? Are we having Christian Gonzalez at the market?
00:08:55
Speaker
Like did Gonzo come in and say, I want 35 million a year versus what he really should get, which is like maybe 31. So I think there's a lot of question marks with it, with Gonzo.
00:09:07
Speaker
um just in terms to touch back on the, in terms of like the actual football fit with Stefan Diggs, if you bring him back, I heard people trying to talk about, trying to talk themselves into this being a bad thing in some way. Like people were talking themselves into it, right? They're like, um you know, someone had a comment. Tay had a comment. I feel like Witherspoon is waiting on Gonzo also. Yeah. They're, they have the same agency. So they're kind of,
00:09:34
Speaker
I'm presuming playing off each other. Again, i agree. But yeah, sorry to flex back to dig. So, you know, I don't, I don't see on the football reason. If you go like on the football field, what, ah what could there, what negative reason could there be on the football field for having stuff? Stefan Diggs, like, is there a football reason you wouldn't want that player back?
00:09:55
Speaker
You guys answer me that. The, the only thing, is if it like upsets the you know the order of the room type of thing. and in In other words, like are there enough touches to go around?
00:10:08
Speaker
That's the only concern I would have because he can play inside, he can play outside. i think Brown's going to play a little bit more in the slot than people anticipate going into this year because I think they're going to move him around. I think the fact that they have receivers who can play if Diggs were to resign, the fact that they could have multiple receivers who could play outside and win outside,
00:10:30
Speaker
and still move around the formation, play in the slot, things like that would be just tremendous. Like the the stuff that Josh McDaniels could do would be amazing. Yeah. um So, i mean, long story short, there is no negative on-field advantage or on-field issue with Diggs resigning.
00:10:49
Speaker
I mean, yeah there's I guess there's risk of chemistry, but other than that, no. Well, good comment here from Trey Mitty. Tremedy Tremedy Trey Middy um who says gotta let the young boys eat so you know I understand that like I get I get where that comment's coming from right like I feel like that's in direct relation to Kyle Williams right and are you by signing digs are you stifling Kyle Williams and it's kind of like i don't know man if you're in a two to three year window
00:11:24
Speaker
Right. Like if this is the window and you think we want to go to the Super Bowl again, like we want to win one. how How can you pass up bringing in digs on like a short year, short money veteran deal just so you can be like, we want to try Kyle Williams in the slot. Do you know what Like I don't like how do you how do you guys tell me? Brad, how do you feel about that?
00:11:46
Speaker
Well, so that's just it to me. The only downside would be you're basically saying that our recent investment in drafting Kyle Williams, we are taking away reps, taking away opportunities for him to develop. So that'd be the only downside. But to me personally, Kyle, if you want it, go get it.
00:12:05
Speaker
I mean, Diggs is an aging wide receiver that you should be able to beat out. So, To me, I look at it and say there really is no downside on the on-field play. If it's because it's going to slow down Kyle Williams' reps, well, that's a Kyle Williams problem. And if he's struggling to beat out Diggs, who's, what, 32 years old and
Offseason Moves and Team Analysis
00:12:27
Speaker
can't come on the field, he can't out-beat that guy? Well...
00:12:32
Speaker
That's on you, dude. I mean, you got to earn it. This is a doggy doll world when it comes to the NFL. Guys get pushed around all the time. Like there's you could talk about it across the board. People talk about Lomo and can Lomo Lomo compete for a job and actually get some reps this season. We'll see.
00:12:48
Speaker
But like that's what you want to do. You want guys chomping at the bit behind you to come in into play. So. I look at it and say there's really no loss here other than is Kraft willing to spend the money, which I don't care what Kraft spends for money. It's not my money.
00:13:01
Speaker
To me, it's not even a beating out Diggs thing. For Williams, it would beating it would be beating out Hollins. Right? So, like, you can play Brown, Williams, and Diggs at the same time. Mm-hmm.
00:13:13
Speaker
Right. Like, I don't see why if he can't beat out Hollins for reps and if he's not and he's also far and away the fastest player, fastest receiver on the team. Right. Like, yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. yeah but like I don't I don't understand. Like, if he can't. beat either of those two guys out for reps like serious reps then yeah i mean he's not the player that we thought he was at least not at this time's always like ended up in the wrong place last year at times you know i mean he was always like like no one doubts his ability but he's always just in the wrong place somehow and like you know even in um otas this year you hear of there's it's so sporadic, right? You hear of a day where Drake threw it to Kyle, he bobbles it and it's like an interception, like pick six. And then few plays later, Kyle Williams caught a 60 yard touchdown.
00:14:02
Speaker
So you're like, you know, is that what you're getting feast or famine inconsistency? Um, If people are mentioning Dobbs in the chat, I guess we forgot about Dobbs. Like we're not forgetting about Dobbs. I think to me, if you had just to mention Dobbs because people are talking about him. I'll show you this guy says we're thanks for Joe Nolan says we're forgetting about Dobbs, not forgetting about Dobbs. So I think Dobbs, I think if you had a top three, right, if you're playing your top three of.
00:14:29
Speaker
Obviously, you know, A.J. Brown at, let's say, X, Romeo Dobbs at Z, and then you bring in Stephon Diggs to mostly play the slot.
00:14:40
Speaker
How good would Stephon Diggs be in the slot? I mean, I think that would be a perfect role for him. I mean, he was going there for a lot of time anyway, this past year, but like he said, he's so, uh, instinctive and he can read zones. He can sit where he needs to sit. Like he's so good at it. Such a good route runner. Like I feel like just a perfect fit to be a guy to play the slot. And like, to me, that's elite. Like that's, that's probably the best. If you brought digs back, you, you might, you probably have the best wide receiver core in football other than maybe just,
00:15:11
Speaker
i don't know, the Bengals with Chase and Higgins, them too. You know what i mean? But like, I think that to me is just such a phenomenal group. And then throwing like Matt Collins as like a fourth big body or or Kyle Williams, right? So I would love that. I would love that group.
00:15:25
Speaker
um So again, I think you don't, if you're going for a Super Bowl, you're not going to not sign You know what I mean? You're you're not going to not sign Stevon Diggs just because you want to like dev develop Kyle Williams. Like this, it feels like to me they've decided we're going for a Super Bowl now.
00:15:44
Speaker
like this is this my opinion like they're like we're going agent we have a two to three year window with drake we're going yeah uh aiden figuero on here said rip booty yeah i'm sorry booty's getting traded i'm sorry um he's gone if you want to come in and talk about booty you're welcome to love what you did appreciate you booty um you're gonna get traded for a day three pick
NFL Teams' Prospects and Patriots' Defense
00:16:06
Speaker
probably and if that doesn't work it might be just be like a pick swap um Ian Steele in here saying move Hollins to tight end as an option.
00:16:16
Speaker
i mean i'm not going to put anything past josh but i think hollands is i like hollands anywhere pretty much i just i just like matt collins personally i think he extremely overachieved for you i think he's a great player blocks super well i love what he brings everyone the locker room loves him great energy i have absolutely nothing bad to say about matt collins he was so much of a better signing than i thought he would be im i'm just a huge fan of that so um Anyway, I touched on a lot there. I couldn't.
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, go for it, Brett. Just to chime in, I would just say when you look at the wide receiver room, it's clear it's clear cut what we're looking at, right? You got Brown at the one, you got Dobbs at the two. After that, it's really packages. Like, what are you looking at for your package? And so depending on what Josh is looking at for sending it out, like you're going to have different skills with different wide receivers. I think from a redundancy standpoint, Kyle Williams and Diggs are a little bit redundant in what their overall skill set is. But clearly Diggs is about a route runner with better hands.
00:17:19
Speaker
You know, we're hoping that is what Williams becomes, but he's a faster guy that has a high upside. So those guys kind of share similar roles on the wide receiver set. But like Hollins is a different wide receiver than those guys. And then you throw in like a guy like Chisholm or Pop, who I think that could be interesting to see if they make a cut or make a move.
00:17:40
Speaker
Because one of those guys may be on there, may not. I think Chisholm, because the special teams could make it. So it's going interesting when we get into camp and start looking at depth charts. You're right. Booty's gone. Can we move him for some sort of an asset? We'll see.
00:17:55
Speaker
Probably a late rounder is what you're going to get because his market value I don't think is tremendous. but You know, bar I mean, we talked about earlier, Barth threw out the idea about like, hey, maybe they trade him to the Giants for Thibodeau and we do some late round swaps, which I would not be opposed to. Two guys on expiring contracts. Both are looking to try and basically perform for themselves.
00:18:19
Speaker
Giants need wide receivers. Let me ask you a second. What would the Giants get out of that, though? Like, I want that to happen. a but like is that helping Giants? They get a wide receiver. But do they want to get a wide receiver? they get wide receiver.
00:18:31
Speaker
I don't know. I heard people poo-pooing that. like like I'm down for that, obviously, because I want another edge. I want an edge. But like would the Giants do that? Do they want booty? Well, it would be booty, plus it would be fairly ah deep more than you think in terms of kind of draft compensation going back with booty for Thibodeau.
00:18:52
Speaker
Thibodeau is not a bust. He's he's a productive player. Yeah. Up 10 pick, like, DN, premium position. Like, he's a substantially better player than Booty. So it's going to take picks with Booty to get Thibodeau.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, sure. But I don't – Do you have to send – yeah, you have to send a higher pick with Booty to get him? Like, maybe. Which, again, I might do. But I would look at it and say it'd be a fifth, and we have a preffler of those. So, like, we're not going to be concerned about that. So, to me, I look at it and say, yeah, it's going to take Booty and a late-round pick to get a guy like Thibodeau. But the reason why the Giants would do it is they clearly need wide receivers. I mean, they just signed Juju Schuster and OBJ. mean, what the hell is that? know. They're they're hurt. And I believe neighbors need.
00:19:42
Speaker
Malik neighbor's knee is like spaghetti, dude. That's his knees. Fuck. He, his knee is way worse than people let
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:19:49
Speaker
on. And, um you know, hope for his sake, he gets back to where he needs to be. Cause he's ah was a fantastic player, but like, yeah, his,
00:19:57
Speaker
His knee is Swiss cheese right now. I just want to read this comment from Joe Nolan here. They're taking advantage of Drake's rookie contract, but also investing in Drake for his development, which is another way to look at this deal. It's going to take another leap this year.
00:20:10
Speaker
i agree, man. I feel like all this this shit, we're we're just we're not even talking about Drake. Do you know what I mean? like that's That's what's crazy about this. like We're talking about all the pieces around Drake, but we're not even talking about how good how good Drake was and how good Drake should be.
00:20:28
Speaker
Do know I mean Like, I think, like, I think Drake, I think Drake should be again, like a top five MVP candidate without a doubt. um And I think with this team, I think they, they just have, they got the weapons to support them. I just, if the stuff we're hearing on digs, man, from like a few different people. And like, I know a lot of people chatting and smoke today. Like some of it is if you believe where the sources it's coming from, you know, again, we're hearing smoke from a few different places. It doesn't mean it's,
00:20:57
Speaker
It doesn't mean – I don't know where it's coming from. it doesn't mean it's coming from the Patriots. I don't know where it's coming from. But there's a lot of smoke today around Diggs. I hope they bring him back. I think it would fantastic for Drake. I think you would have to be – this would be one of the most dangerous offenses in football, bar none.
00:21:13
Speaker
Probably the best offense in the AFC, I would say. um But, yeah, but everything is not – it's not set in stone. Somebody said here, dude, Malik Nabors is a top five wide receiver. Yeah, Malik Nabors is awesome, dude. He's awesome.
00:21:28
Speaker
I'm just saying his knee's fucked. He's had multiple surgeries. His knee is fucked, dude. He's had multiple surgeries. He's not going be back for a while. like he his he's He's not doing well so far. You know what i mean? so It's kind of like with ah Micah Parsons.
00:21:44
Speaker
He's not going back until October. like way longer than they thought. So some of these injuries, people aren't healing well versus like digs ACL last year. he was way ahead of schedule. Right. So do you guys have anything, Brett's new, do you have anything to comment on that stuff?
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, Malik Neighbors is not top five, so that's laughable. But again, I look at it and say to myself, they're clearly desperate if they're going out and signing Juju and OBJ, who, like, sure, 10 years ago, great signings. That looks amazing. I mean, OBJ was on the Giants 10 years ago, but, like,
00:22:19
Speaker
Those guys are so washed up. They would love to get a guy like Booty in the room. And they're clearly in a rebuild setup. So, like, he's still a young guy who could be a good two or three option on the roster.
00:22:33
Speaker
And you're getting him on a contract here. so And you're getting rid of a guy like Thibodeau on an expiring contract who they don't seem to be in on. I mean, yeah, he was a high draft pick, but he's had up and down years. I think he's he's one of those guys that it's not like he's established himself. um You know, so he'd be the chase on replacement.
00:22:53
Speaker
I feel like we're drastically overrating K. Sean Booty. And I feel like this fan base has done this for like three fucking years now. We're like. Look, he's fine.
00:23:04
Speaker
He's okay. He's not great. He's okay. He's not even that good. He's okay. Like, he's he's got it's going to cost a lot more than just him and, like, a sixth-round pick for fucking Thibodeau.
00:23:17
Speaker
He's, like, they've tried they've tried to shop him for, like, two years, and no one's taken him. Right? And there's plenty of teams that need receiver help. What are you talking about, Booty? Yeah. The Chiefs need receiver help.
00:23:28
Speaker
right i don't know why no one's take I don't know why no one's taken. Are the people truly like not believe? There's some guy in our chat going off on – we got like a Malik Neighbors fan in the chat. i There's nothing wrong with Neighbors, dude. He's injured.
00:23:43
Speaker
Anyway, sorry. Sorry to get off track. Go for it. I just feel like we're – like all last year, they ah you know this fan base overrated Booty going into last year, they overrated Booty, and we're kind of doing it again. We're like, oh, well, what can we get for Booty? It's like, dude, they've shopped him for two years, and no one's taken him.
00:24:01
Speaker
Like, you tell me that if someone was willing to give up, like even a fourth or fifth round pick right now for Booty, going any at any point in this offseason, like they they wouldn't have done that?
00:24:14
Speaker
Like, so no one's really interested in them So like you're best going to get a late round pick swap. You're talking fit six rounds, you know, pick swap, that type of thing. That's what it's going to be. It's not going to be. Patriots fans value booty so highly.
00:24:29
Speaker
And again, like everyone, I i kept reporting, i kept reporting last year. shit people were saying about like, oh, booty's probably available. And everyone always got so mad. They're like, they're like, you hate booty. You hate booty. I don't hate booty. There's nothing wrong with, he did well for us.
00:24:47
Speaker
He's not going to be here next year. He's at the end of his contract. And they've now have two guys that like play his position that are better than him. So it's, it's just not, he's done here. And like, eventually he's going to be traded or probably cut.
00:25:03
Speaker
Now, I don't know. I know everyone wants to say, like yo hold on to him, hold on to him. When is he going to get time on the field? First of all, he wants to be traded. Schefter said that the other day. Schefter literally in his own podcast said, Booty is open to a trade. That means Keishon Booty wants to be traded.
00:25:21
Speaker
He doesn't want to play here. Do you know what I mean? Like he doesn't want to play here because he won't have an opportunity. He's staring down fucking A.J. Brown and Romeo Dobbs every day.
00:25:34
Speaker
Do you know what mean? like Like we're talking about these guys are better players. Dude, he gets to watch fucking A.J. Brown. He's got the best seat in the house, dude. So all I'm saying is like, I don't know why no one's biting on booty. No one wants to get, can give you a fifth rounder.
00:25:50
Speaker
Like, is that it? Like no one, no one's willing give up a fifth for booty. You know I mean? No, for two years, that's been the case. Ridiculous. He's not going to get much. It is what it is.
00:26:02
Speaker
He's a fine player. I think part of it is like they finally drafted someone who can actually play a little bit. And so it's like, we want to hold on to him because, you know, we we haven't had that in two fucking decades, but like, it is what it is. You got a better receiver in AJ Brown. You got a better receiver in AJ, in Dobbs. Like, you know, like it's just give up on it. It's okay.
00:26:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it is what it is. um Good comment here again. Joe Nolan says, what do you guys got for AJ Brown stat line? Brett, what do you got for AJ Brown stat line this year? I would say best case scenario, he hits that 1200 mark with eight touchdowns. I would guess he's probably going to be closer to around a thousand with like, yeah, I think he'll probably get like eight touchdowns. Yeah. I think Drake's still going to spread it. And think they're going to intentionally move it around and go forward with it. And Brown could get some double coverage, which is going to open some other guys up. So
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i I'll be okay with that too, because ultimately, Look, I'm not looking for the guy to light it up on fire. I just need that guy to help us make our offense dynamic and score so we can be, like you talked about, one of the top five offenses in the league. Can we be the best offense in the AFC type of a guy?
00:27:24
Speaker
We don't need him to be all world to be able to do that. We got a lot of other weapons, lot of other options, especially if you're bringing a guy like Diggs. And we haven't really talked about it too much, but like – Vrabel wants to run the rock.
00:27:36
Speaker
So we're going to run the ball. It's not like we're going to go out there and throw the ball 30, 40 times a game. Like we're going to run it and Drake's going to be somewhat in that like 25 to 33-ish rep, you know, passes per game. I don't see them airing it out for him to get a ton of targets that's going to result in these crazy yardage. So best case scenario, 12 with like,
00:28:01
Speaker
nine touchdowns i think he'll probably be closer to like a thousand with eight yeah i think uh it's funny yeah i think people are so not used to watching high level wide receivers anymore you know and and this is this has been the the reality for new england for geez i don't know since 2019 maybe since he had like that aj brown game with like josh gordon or whatever you know what i mean like when's the last time you had healthy high level wide receivers. Like Edelman was so banged up in 2020. And then it's just been like a dead zone for like elite wide receivers.
00:28:37
Speaker
And so, you know, AJ Brown, i don't think people ru realize that we're talking about a different animal here. Like this is a different, this is a different kind of guy. And they're even saying an OTA is with him like jogging through stuff. Like not only does he just still have that burst and release off the line, but like he's so fucking smooth with everything and he's massive.
00:28:58
Speaker
Like this ah this is a first ballot hall of famer we're talking about. And he's 28, he'll be 29, you know, soon, but he's not 34. thirty four um You know, like i don't, will he have the impact Randy Moss had when he came here?
00:29:15
Speaker
That's pretty intense. Like that's an intense statement to say. I don't quite think anything prepared the world for Tom Brady and Randy Moss in 2007. and what that looked like and how perfect that is. But could I see AJ Brown getting 1300 yards and 10 TDs?
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that. I think that would be pretty excellent. He just needs to stay healthy, as we talked about, right? But like, that to me would be ah an absolute banger year. So um what do you think, Snooty?
00:29:46
Speaker
I think he's going for 1250 and 11 touchdowns. I mean, that's that's a pretty that's a pretty sick year. do you what mean? Like, that's a great year for him here. I think he's going to help some solve some of the red zone problems that they had before. I also think they're going to try to run the ball more. They probably will run the ball a little bit more effectively than they did last year. But losing Hill, the tight end, is a big problem with that. um They also don't have much in the way of tight end depth. You're relying on either a second year guy or an undrafted rookie free agent ah in addition to a rookie tight end and Hunter Henry at 33 or however old he is. um So I think that's gonna kind of forced their hand a little bit.
00:30:28
Speaker
um And there's also the potential with that with a tougher schedule, they may be forced to air it out a little bit more. So I think, I think 1250 and 11 touchdowns is, I think that's where he's going to go. Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
i mean, that'd be, yeah again, that'd be an absolute hell of a year. So do you guys watch any like behind the scenes stuff or anything like that? The Patriots put out on AJ Brown, like the other day.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, snippets of it. I mean, guy's in heaven, right? You know, it's one of those things where he's loving life. That was a crazy quote. Dude, I mean, could a guy be any happier coming in to an organization? He dreamed about this. Rabel telling the story about how when he got drafted to the Titans, he was like, hi I wish I got drafted by the Patriots. Like after he just got drafted to the Titans to coach Rabel at the time when he was on the Titans. Like this guy loves being here, which is going to be awesome. And I think.
00:31:32
Speaker
Just put on a tangent, that's the part I look at. All the haters on the on trade, and they're trying to grasp at straws, basically calling the guy a diva and someone that shot himself out of town when he was over in Philly, which I get the Philly media has kind of beaten up on him, which I don't blame them. But I also look at and say – Like what makes you think that's going to happen here?
00:31:57
Speaker
He's coming to an organization, a team that he's dreamed about coming since he was a kid. He's playing with a coach who he's loved since he was drafted and as the Titans and always wanted to come back to and be with on that team. He's going to the best deep ball wide receiver quarterback in the league in Drake but May. And reports are he didn't like the way he was being utilized at Philly, not because of targets, but because he was being asked to run slots and schemes that he didn't like because Jalen Hurts couldn't make it work for that.
00:32:27
Speaker
So he's putting himself in ah ah amazing situation. on a Super Bowl contending team, just like he was in Philly, and Kraft's a great owner who's going to help take care of his players. So I see no signs whatsoever that A.J. Brown's going to be a drama in this locker room, and I think anyone that reports otherwise is just grasping at straws, dude.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. yeah I mean, im I'm not concerned with him from like an effort standpoint. I've said that from day one because I think he has too much respect for Vrabel in order for that to be a thing.
00:33:00
Speaker
um And also, like, generally speaking, he wanted to he wanted to be here. He's wanted to be here for so long, like you said. And like, you're only looking for two or three years, right? Like ideally three years, healthy years is what you want to make it worthwhile to give up the first round pick. So I feel like that's a, that's not overly difficult. It shouldn't be overly difficult to survive and not be an asshole for three years, at least for two.
00:33:27
Speaker
I mean, i don't, I think like this could be, this is his like last stop of like super high level football. presumably for his career. You know, if we're talking about ages 29, 30, 31, you can play at a high level, especially for him.
00:33:41
Speaker
Takes great, great care of his body in shape. Big dude. Doesn't have to, this is what I like about it Like he doesn't have to be the fastest guy in the room. He can be a technician, a big dude. Like he could be like, i don't know, like Nquan Bolden.
00:33:55
Speaker
Is it, okay comp, not as good or like a Larry Fitzgerald ish, but you know, Larry Fitzgerald turned into like a big slot at the end of his career, not just like a burner, right? Like these guys change how they play a little bit and we're still really great. I mean, Larry Fitzgerald's again, first ballot hall famer, amazing wide receiver. Like these guys who are this skilled, they can change how they work at what they do and and they can, they can make it happen. I mean, these dudes are are legends for a reason. I think AJ,
00:34:25
Speaker
i mean listen there was a story by i think it's craig carton in philly is his name there's a story that the real falling out reason was because he was like with some other girls and his girlfriend found out and told jalen hurt's girlfriend and then it was created like personal drama and so that's why ultimately led to a falling out so like it was literally just a personal issue not even football related but basically a personal issue Because, I mean, he wasn't that happy when he won the Super Bowl, man, and he was an absolute freak.
00:34:57
Speaker
So, and I think, again, I think AJ, I'm just stoked, dude. Like, I just think the Patriots have so much more juice. know I mean? Like, we talk about being back and having juice, man. Like, how much more juice does this training camp have?
00:35:12
Speaker
You imagine you bring in Diggs. Imagine the juice in that room if you have AJ Brown and Diggs from Drake May. Yeah. Training camp is going to sell out, dude It's going to be crazy.
00:35:23
Speaker
so You just got to look at it and think to yourselves, like just take a step back from where we were two years ago and where we are now. It's just insane. I mean, clearly last year exceeded everyone's expectations. Couldn't imagine it happened.
00:35:39
Speaker
We get to the Super Bowl. and we can go down that rabbit hole again, clearly our offense just showed how inept they were in the biggest spot. We've continuously focused on developing and drafting in that position and finding guys to be able to go through. And in a matter of a year and a half, like we've totally reshaped the offense to the point that we're now saying like, Hey, we could be top five in the league on offense potentially this year, which is not a crazy take. And no one would laugh in your face about it.
00:36:11
Speaker
Obviously this is largely due to the development of Drake may and how he's far exceeded expectations this early in his career. But like all the pieces and how we've put around it has just been such a game changer that yeah, you're right. I mean, the vibes are insanely high as they should be. And you look at it and say like we have a legitimate chance to make another run. I mean, I've been saying forever. I think they're they're still top four in the AFC in my opinion. um And I think that puts them in contentions and AJ Brown is going to help them out with that.
00:36:45
Speaker
I mean, I'm not really sold on any one team in the AFC. but like Clearly in the NFC, there's a few teams that are are very dominant, but in the AFC, they all have flaws, right? Like, yeah I mean, I'm true personally, not a big believer in Denver this year. I just feel like they're going to regress, but I don't know. I think Denver's pretty good, to be honest. like i'm laughing i agree That's my take. I'm sticking with it. That's fine. I'm i'm down on Kansas City. That's my – Kansas City, Cincinnati's got a ton of questions. Buffalo is Buffalo, right? The Chargers, I can't take seriously until then. The Ravens have a new coach. Who knows? Because the NFL coaching matters. um
00:37:26
Speaker
And then who else? Jaguars? Never been a – whatever. Who gives a fuck about the Jaguars? I think the biggest the team that's going to be the biggest scare is going to be the Chargers because I think McDaniels is a legit X factor there and is going to help Herbert figure things out.
00:37:44
Speaker
So that one that team scares me. i don't They don't scare me yet because until you see Herbert figure it out in the postseason, like he's truly been horrific.
00:37:55
Speaker
like horrific in the post season. So it's, it's hard. You know what i mean? Like it's really bad. So I think the AFC is kind of flawed. like Like there's some, there's some really good teams, but everyone's got their own flaws. Like so, so the comment I pulled up by Deshaun W says people just assume the Ravens chiefs, et cetera, will be good just off name value. And I agree.
00:38:17
Speaker
i don't know. Do the chiefs just lost John Harbaugh. I mean, sorry, the Ravens lost John Harbaugh. I don't, Is that supposed to count for nothing? Like their hall of fame, long-term coach goes and like, they're like, oh wow, breath of fresh air. Like, I don't know how that team's going to be.
00:38:34
Speaker
I don't know how Lamar is going to be. Will Lamar decline? I don't know. Like, is he going to return to MVP levels? For some reason I doubt it, but I don't know. You know, like the chiefs again, like I don't love the chiefs roster to me. I don't think they did enough to change with like their best wide receivers in prison.
00:38:54
Speaker
literally rehabbing in prison. Like I don't like that dude's an absolute clown who's not gonna get like a mat. Like, I don't know what they're gonna do with that player. So I don't necessarily trust the chiefs either. Like, I think there's a lot of flawed teams.
00:39:07
Speaker
um The Broncos to me are one of the least flawed teams, except that the most ab important position of quarterback, which they're limited by Bo Nix. So again, if someone brings up the Texans in the chat, did the Texans have CJ Stroud?
00:39:23
Speaker
CJ Stroud has been atrocious for a while. So the only team I'm seeing right now on paper that I think are are elite elite league wise right now are like the Rams and the Seahawks.
00:39:35
Speaker
And I think those teams are sick, sick. I think the Rams are going to be sick, dude. Like just, just depressingly good. and i And I think them getting Miles Garrett, like I just love, I love how they operate. And Snooty, you could probably weigh in on this. I said this Monday.
00:39:50
Speaker
i think obviously a lot of teams overvalue first round picks and the Rams are the opposite. They know they're like, give away your picks, get talent now. That's how they operate. What do you, Snooty, tell me, what do you think about the Rams philosophy of trading their first rounders? So you can trade away picks anywhere as long as you hit on the picks that you have. And they've hit on multiple mid-round picks for a decade plus at this point, right? like So, of course, when you have – first of all, you also have an older quarterback um who's on his last, what, year two maybe? Like maybe two years? i mean, he flirted with retirement this year. Yeah, bad back, bad back. Yeah.
00:40:31
Speaker
So like, sure, it makes perfect sense for them this year to go all in. And that's the Miles Garrett trade, et cetera. Fine. But in general, like, I mean, the Seahawks did it when they went on their run. Like the Patriots used to do it. They used to hit on all those mid-round picks and found players that can actually play. The 49ers did it. When they started going through all their teams, like they hit on third, fourth, fifth round picks, guys that became legitimate starters and players and contributors in the mid round every time. So sure, trade your first round pick for established talent, but you better hit on the other picks, you know, in the mid round. So that's how you can have a cheap labor, um you know, cheaper players to offset the expensive players you're importing, but then also, you
00:41:12
Speaker
You have depth, you very real depth and you and you're you know you're building something, you're building a system, you have people, you let, you sign. It's like the, you know, Belichick used to say this, like there's ah guys that you pay and there's guys that you replace, right? Like there's guys that the core, you have to identify the actual core irre irreplaceable players, you pay them.
00:41:32
Speaker
You let everyone else, you draft to replace everybody else. That's how it's supposed to work. That's why they're so good and have been for so long. Pukunokua was like what, like a fifth round pick? Well, yeah, they I mean, they've hit on everything, but they're also finding, like, they're finding that whole classic finding deficiencies, like you zig, they zag. Everyone's like, oh, we've got to get first-rounders, load up. Like oh like the Eagles, they're, like, coveting this 2028 first-rounder for AJ.
00:41:58
Speaker
You know, meanwhile, the Rams are like, I don't give a fuck about first-round picks. you know mean? Like, they're like, I want, you know, let's get Miles Garrett. And the best player, basically, like, the best player in football. And they fucking got him.
00:42:11
Speaker
And yeah it's like, you know, good for the Rams. I think they're just like, they're just going to be gross. I think they want another Super Bowl and it wouldn't surprise me if they got it. It's just like Matthew Stafford's back to see how that holds up. I think Seattle's going disgusting again too. I think I really like their coach. He reminds me of a young Belichick.
00:42:30
Speaker
He just, how he does his defense and envisions shit. Like their team was so fucking good last year. Again, people aren't talking about how good they were enough. the Seahawks and like, yeah, the Patriots got, got dealt. They got smoked in the Superbowl. I get it. They weren't, they weren't matched up.
00:42:47
Speaker
It just, the Patriots weren't even healthy. They weren't matched up. They didn't have the offensive talent, which brings me back to like people complaining now about an AJ Brown trade, like Felger and Matt's again,
00:42:58
Speaker
hate to just rag on just them, but like they go on and on about the value and this trade and why it's bad and all this shit. And like all they did and people did was complain like you don't have offensive talent last year in the postseason. You couldn't beat people in man.
00:43:12
Speaker
You couldn't get open. You didn't have the horses. And you're getting some horses and now they want to complain. Like you got to pay a price, dude. You got to pay for people. It's not free unless you just hit on crazy draft picks.
00:43:27
Speaker
You know what mean? have to defend something. Well, the good news is everyone. What's that? Glenn in the chat is saying that the Patriots have never hit on picks. That's the most like I'm fucking 12 years old take I've heard in a very long time. Like they hit on picks for fucking decades.
00:43:45
Speaker
They literally hit on picks. All the time. I'm sick of this. like boat to yeah They fucking drafted guys. They hit on picks. That's how they stayed so good. Part of how they stayed so good for so long. They actually did find contributions from players in the mid-round. Glenn, I don't know how old you are, but they they basically they hit on they hit all the time.
00:44:06
Speaker
until basically like, I don't know what feels like 2017 or so. And then they stopped being able to, whether was scouting or bill, or i don't know. You could go down with reasons, but like you can go again, go back, look up 20, 2010 draft, look up 2012 draft.
00:44:26
Speaker
Like you tell me they didn't hit when they drafted in the same draft, like Aaron Hernandez, Gronk and McCourty. That's not, that's not hitting. Do you know what I mean? or like, was it 2012 when they got like Chandler Jones and Dante Hightower? This is off the top of my head. Stop me if I'm wrong.
00:44:45
Speaker
Like, did that not hit to you? You know what mean? Like, like, and the yeah, eventually it went to shit. Like in 2018, 2017, it stopped being good,
00:44:56
Speaker
but But belichick was Belichick was a great GM for a while. Like, he was an architect for a long time. He ran it really well. He was the only way you can win six Super Bowls.
00:45:10
Speaker
You know what i mean? Yeah. um Let me look at this draft now. Now he's going down a rabbit hole to find the 2012 draft. yeah I was just going to chime in. The good news is as you were talking about powerhouse teams with Seattle and the Rams, who I don't disagree The best part is they're in the NFC.
00:45:29
Speaker
And I agree. I think the AFC is wide open. and was By the way, Chandler Jones and Jonte Hightower. I hope that's what I said. was In 2012, it was Chandler Jones and Dante Hightower. Two first round picks that they just talked about crushing picks. Those are two phenomenal picks. They moved up for both.
00:45:47
Speaker
but like And then they moved up, which tells you, like oh, shit, these were guys that they obviously targeted. You I mean Again, 2010 draft. I'm going go to this shit now because now I'm down a rabbit hole. and I don't care.
00:46:00
Speaker
Uh, 2010 draft, which is again, one of their best in their history, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, and you like Brandon spikes, Aaron Hernandez, like other than Aaron Hernandez, crazy shit. He was phenomenal.
00:46:15
Speaker
Brandon spikes was solid, you know, McCourty and Gronk two Patriots hall of famers, you know, It is what it is. But like like I said, I agree with you guys.
00:46:27
Speaker
um it's It's not something where they hit for a long time. And everyone knows that, and that's how they they kept this shit together forever. um They had nasty players for a long time. You can't have a dynasty without you can't have a dynasty without hitting on picks, period.
00:46:45
Speaker
We got Bryson in the chat here saying digs. Bryson's in on the digs chain. Bryson's hearing in the smokes. He's in on the digs chain, ah train, chain, train. Um, I think we're waiting for something. So anyway, um anything else you guys want to go over tonight? and i know it's like, we're still like, we're in June, man. I'm just happy we got shit to talk about.
00:47:07
Speaker
And we got some juice considering it's been like, this was the expected kind of Before this, it was pretty dead. So I'm happy we have some juice. But any any last thoughts you guys want to get out or anything you guys want to touch on? Brett, Snooty?
00:47:25
Speaker
No, i'm just ready for I'm just ready to get them all in camp and and get them, like, fully going, right? Like, starting to see, like, how the reps look, get them in and – We haven't spent a lot. I mean, I get it. We've been spending so much time on ah offense. We haven't talked about the freaking defense, dude. But this defense could still be another team where you look at, like, I feel like people are sleeping on Milton Williams. like is crazy Call me crazy, but I just feel like people look it and they're like, Gonzo's the only elite talent you have on that defense. I'm like, dude, milite william Milton Williams is one of the best defensive linemen in the league.
00:48:01
Speaker
And that guy was a total game changer for us last year. And people are just like sleeping on our defense. Yeah, I think ah it's because obviously all the exciting stuff is happening on offense, but they still they still need an edge rusher.
00:48:16
Speaker
They need an edge. There's not there's not enough there. um I don't know. I still think – I tried to dig in a little today and, you know, I don't know what – no one knows what they're up to really. They're pretty they're pretty tight, but I think – Like i said, can you trade for Thibodeau?
00:48:33
Speaker
Can you sign Joey Bosa on a vet contract? um Chowder Sports here says, I think we're still thin at linebacker. I agree. going to do, though? You're to get in Matt Milano? you know who Who are you going to bring in at linebacker? like I wanted them to draft somebody, but they traded away their fourth-round picks. so um So, yeah. no i think i think the secondary I think the secondary is really, really good.
00:48:59
Speaker
Like, I think the secondary is really good. I think you have five dudes that are crazy solid. I love the safety position between Craig Woodson and Byard and, you know, Gonzo and Carl Davis and Marcus Jones, you know, kind of for the nickel. Like, I think, I think you got some really, really great talent on defense. You just, your, your front,
00:49:21
Speaker
D tackles are good, but you still, you're, you're lacking a little, just a little talent wise, but like, do they have room? They could load up. There's contracts to be had. There's, there's things to be done. So I don't think they're done. I think maybe craft is giving them the, the okay to spend the money.
00:49:37
Speaker
And cause they went to the super bowl. They're like, yeah, just get it as good as a, as good as you can. i mean, that would be different from the past, but maybe craft is letting them spend. I don't know. Cindy, you got anything?
00:49:49
Speaker
think specific off-ball linebacker, I think that's a position where they're going to see what it looks like with the guys they have on the roster, undrafted and otherwise. And then that's a place where they could make a move when it's you know more closer to cut time.
00:50:02
Speaker
See who's not going to make it. Maybe swing swing a trade for late-round pick swap, something like that. Try to get someone who's going to get cut. um That's a spot where they could do that.
00:50:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. mean, they're always trying to improve the roster. yeah they They really are. They're always trying to improve the roster. And I actually really like, I like the front office they have right now. I like what they've done.
00:50:26
Speaker
i pretty much every move they've made has been pretty successful to this point. So I don't know what they've done to to have you not earn their trust unless you're just someone who's like an anti-craft guy and you think he's not going to spend money. Like I think they've done, they've done a great job. so Um, right, we're, we're at the 50 minute mark here. um so I'll probably end the stream now. I don't know if anyone has anything else to contribute, but, um, appreciate you guys tuning in. We had a good, good crowd tonight. Um, this will be up on YouTube and, again, thank you, Bryson in the chat. Um, and yeah, so check out savageboston.com. Hey, we still need a ah sponsor for the live stream and, uh,
00:51:12
Speaker
Always welcome for people that shoot me in the DMs. we We could use a sponsor on here. So I appreciate you guys, and we'll we'll catch you next time. See you later. Peace.