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EPISODE 92 - Jaylen Brown trade imminent?? Giannis fallout. Patriots talk.
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Transcript
Introduction to Savage Boston Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
All right, guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast, live stream, whatever you want to call it. We're we're all over all over the internet here. So here tonight, I'm Scott with SavageBoston.com, here with my co-host Snooty.
00:00:15
Speaker
And we've got our guest tonight, John Lyons from WEI, who I met John last year at a fundraiser, good guy, and wanted to have him on and thought he'd be a a good contributor. yeah. Yeah, man. So this is good. it's It's good
NBA Draft and Jalen Brown Trade Rumors
00:00:30
Speaker
timing. Super good timing considering the NBA draft is happening right now, which is why the views are already popping because we're live literally is it's about to be the number five overall pick going on right now, um which, by the way, there's been rumors right now that like.
00:00:46
Speaker
this is This could be the pick to watch for a trade potential trade for Jalen Brown. almost said AJ Brown, but for Jalen Brown. So I don't know, man. this has been This has been a crazy day. It's been a crazy like two days. The Giannis drama, the Jalen Brown fallout.
00:01:01
Speaker
John, why don't you take me into it first? kind of What's your initial impression of what's been going on with all the fallout and and what's happened the last day or so? Well, the first thing I guess is it's a good thing that I wasn't able to join you guys last week. I had to wait till this week. I mean, there's just more going on now, but yeah, I mean, look, it feels like when it comes to Jalen Brown, the Celtics, it's a weird spot for them. And it,
00:01:25
Speaker
Jalen Brown is a top 10 player this year, right? Sixth in MVP voting. And I think in the aggregate year to year, he's a top 15 player overall. And he's in his prime and he's also signed for multiple years and he's won a championship here.
00:01:38
Speaker
So it's a very rare profile of guy like that that gets traded. And if you're going to trade a guy like that to me, You only really trade him for one of two things, either a top five player, which they tried to do with Giannis, or can you get back multiple top 30 type players, really good players that can help you win a championship. And again, it feels like that route to the top five guys closed now with Giannis off the board. But it still feels like they're trying to make a move. And I know we can get into why they might want to continue trying to make a move at this time, why they're still
Should the Celtics Trade Jalen Brown?
00:02:12
Speaker
interested in it. and I think there's a lot of layers to that. But it's a really unique spot because, like I said, a guy of his profile, it's just so weird and unique for a guy like that to hit the open market at his age.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, true. Snooty, do you have an initial take you want to get out? So I was never huge in favor of moving Brown in general. I still think it's going to happen, but Giannis to me represented the only chance, like generally speaking, when you trade a superstar, you don't get value back, right? Like you generally lose the trade no matter what. Giannis represented the one chance that you might have to actually recoup maybe not the same value, but close to it, the best value you were going to get. So unless Brown is in there saying, you know, causing, the you know, a big shit storm saying, I want to move, I'm out. Then I don't, I don't want to trade him.
00:02:59
Speaker
I think there's other moves you can make. yeah It doesn't make you a better team in the short term. And it's a huge risk to be better in the longterm anyway, from a trade like that. Yeah. By the way, there is no trade at the fifth overall pick just got announced by Jake Fisher. Just leaked that. The fifth overall pick, which by the way, pre-draft was rumored that that could have just went for Jalen Brown, like Kawhi in five for Jalen. Like there's all sorts of shit going on right now, like live as we speak, which is We'll somehow have to try to stay on top of it as we're we're talking on the live stream here. But yeah, so the fifth overall pick, they will be they will be making the Clippers, that is.
00:03:37
Speaker
um And again, we'll see kind of we'll see where it goes tonight as we're going on. um Yeah, so someone in the comments here is kind of like, this is this is kind of how I'm feeling in some respect. Pat's Canes fan, 130. Relationship is already damaged. I don't think it'll be fixed with Jalen Brown.
Impact of Trading Jalen Brown on Team Dynamics
00:03:53
Speaker
He's referring. So Yeah, man, I think there's there's so much here. there There are a lot of layers. But I think first overall is once the Celtics decided we're going to really put on the table that Jalen Brown's available.
00:04:04
Speaker
Like they're like, all right, it came like, ah you know, a day ago where they're like, get it out. He's on the table. He's in the trade. Like they had to know the plan B. You know, we're all talking all day, the plan B. What's the plan B? Well, there there has to be a plan B. And they knew it could fall through.
00:04:22
Speaker
And obviously it did, right? So the trade falls through. and now you're left with Jalen Brown, who by all accounts was borderline, i think a disgruntled asset is maybe too strong, but he's clearly a guy that has his own, you know, his own opinions about the organization and how they treat him.
00:04:40
Speaker
So yes, I think it's, can the relationship be fixed at this point? i don't I don't know. like yeah Like Jalen Brown could swallow his pride, And the Celtics, I guess, could, I don't know, they could they could assuage his his anger there a little bit. But I think, honestly, what does happen is I think he gets moved. And I don't know what that's for. It could happen, like, in 20 minutes. I don't know. But I think, genuinely speaking, I think Jalen could get moved.
00:05:09
Speaker
And it could happen tonight. ah Because, again, like, something tells me as soon as they they announced – Jalen could be traded. He's on the table. They were prepared to trade him.
00:05:20
Speaker
You know, that's that's my opinion. Yeah, and I think the biggest thing for me, and the Celtics can have to answer this, what's the line of
Celtics' Past Strategies and Current Standing
00:05:29
Speaker
demarcation? And what I mean by that is, okay, you tried to trade Brown for a top five player. It didn't work out. in yeah And whether you like the honest trade or not, like you can understand the logic there. Giannis at his peak is a better player. And I think he'd compliment Tatum really well, but it didn't work out.
00:05:45
Speaker
So obviously Brown's going to be frustrated by that, just like after they tried to trade him for Kevin Durant and years ago when he was in Anthony Davis and Kawhi Leonard rumors. But because he's so good and he signed for three more years and he's in his prime, you can't just trade him to trade him. So what's the level of return that you have to then say, no, that's not good enough and we'll deal with an unhappy star and hope we can work it out over the next you know weeks and several months and try to win that way. And I think What's interesting, too, about this is that they've won a championship, right? Like, if this was two or three years ago, and they or three years ago, and they hadn't won yet, maybe there'd be more urgency to try to move even more so than there's been.
00:06:27
Speaker
But because they've shown it can work, like, the last time the Celtics were in this position, or one similar to this, was the summer of 2023. They had the disappointing end to that season, losing Game 7 of the Heat, where Tatum got hurt early on, rolled his ankle. And that was the last time prior to this,
00:06:42
Speaker
where there's real talk about, hey, are you going to split these guys up? And what did they do instead? They gave Brown a supermax. They traded for Porzingis. Later on, they traded for Holiday. They loaded up around those two guys, and they won a championship. So that still might be the best path this summer if they can get Brown back on board, but...
00:07:02
Speaker
Again, what's the line of demarcation there? at what point do you say, OK, these returns or this return is good enough and we'll make a move or it's not. And we'll deal with an unhappy player because we can't. He's too good a player to just trade to trade or trade because he's a little bit unhappy and not try to get it back on board. They they have to figure that out.
00:07:22
Speaker
Maybe they'll figure it out tonight. Maybe it'll be three weeks from now. But that, to me, is the key question to ask because they will get offers. Some of them will be legit and serious. But will any of them rise to the level that it's really worth them doing?
00:07:38
Speaker
You almost wonder, like, how much research have they done into what they could get for Brown before the honest talks? Right. Because like hope some you'd have to think you'd have to imagine if they're as smart as we think they are as Brad, if Brad is as smart as we think he is, that they would have run through those scenarios and those different permutations of, you know, at least just general talks of kind of gauging interest and and what they could possibly get in return.
00:08:01
Speaker
um Because I know they they were unable to get a third team in the deal with the Bucs, but. you know, what you're willing to take from ah a third team is different from what the Bucks might be willing to take from a third team. So that doesn't, I don't buy the, you know, that means he has no value elsewhere in the league. I don't buy that necessarily.
00:08:17
Speaker
Um, But, like, I don't know. It's just you have to – you'd have to imagine that they talked to him beforehand, that whatever the relationship is, it's well known. It's been established. I don't think he was put into trade rumors, especially publicly, without his knowledge beforehand.
Media Influence on Trade Rumors
00:08:35
Speaker
um That's just my take. So I don't think it's been – you know, suddenly or or damaged irreparably the relationship. I think it it kind of has built to this point that he knows like where he stands at this point. Well, so let me, so my first question to you guys would be like, do you know, do you believe sham Shams, right? Do you believe Shams? Like he's the number one guy, right? Shams reporting. He's, he's the one, right?
00:08:59
Speaker
So if if you can choose one NBA guy to believe it's probably going to be Shams, right? Well, Shams within the last hour or two, not only confirmed that, The Celtics were listening to calls on Jalen Brown, but they were making calls. And I find that word, that's like, that's the word, man, making calls, right? Instead of just being a receptive entity, like they're they're pursuing and being, again, another quote Sham said 45 minutes ago, they were being intentional.
00:09:27
Speaker
Again, like these are key words. Like Sham doesn't, Sham doesn't fuck around with language. it's like um It's like reading Mike Reese on the Sunday column. You read Mike, every word Mike says,
00:09:38
Speaker
is thought out it's not me fucking around and like uh like messing around on a tweet like every word is thought out how he's phrasing things right so the same thing with shams when he's saying the celtics are intentional in making calls i don't see how do you how do you go back from that And I think you even go back to
Celtics' Playoff Performance and Brad Stevens' Plans
00:09:58
Speaker
Brad Stevens end of the year press conference. He said they were going to need more impact at the rim. And he said they might have to go outside the organization to do it. Like all due respect to Nima Skata, who I think should have won most improved player this year at a great season. But he said they might have to go outside the organization. You look at the Celtics this past year.
00:10:17
Speaker
They were 16th in points per possession on post-ups when they won the championship in 2024. They were number one in the and NBA. points per possession on post-ups. Like, that's a massive drop-off. And they became a pretty good rebounding team as the season went along, but they struggled a lot in the first month of the year, especially giving up offensive rebounds in key spots.
00:10:38
Speaker
And then they struggled again in the series against Philadelphia. I mean, how many guys... explicitly mentioned Joel Embiid coming back as a reason that they lost that playoff series. Now, whether you fully agree with that or not, like they said it. So for him to say they need to go outside the organization, then as you mentioned, the things that Sham said today, making calls, being intentional, like the best way to go outside your organization to get more impact at the rim yeah You don't want to trade Jalen Brown, but he is the best trade ship you have if you're trying to do something. So again, it's like I said before, what's that line where, yeah, you get impact at the rim, but it's such a drop off not having Brown that it's not worth it. And I think that's really what they're trying to figure out because I agree with what you guys said before. They didn't just magically decide over the weekend, oh, yeah, we'll offer him for Giannis and see what happens. They've been thinking about this for a while. They asked about Giannis at the deadline. Clearly, they knew then that Milwaukee would be interested in a package centered on Brown. So it's not new for them. So obviously, they've thought through it.
00:11:41
Speaker
But I think it's going to come down to who exactly will give them a package back, especially either directly in the package or as a facilitating way to get that more impact at the rim that Brad Stevens talked about at the end of the year.
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's it's going really interesting to see how it resolves and obviously like what they end up doing. um You know, do you think. I'll throw it to Snooty first. Do you think just Brad Stevens messed up?
00:12:08
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean As a general question, did he mess up? Or is this part of the plan and we're just executing plan B? Like, Snooty, did did Brad Stevens mess up? mean, it all goes back to how you view Brad Stevens. He has supporters who will say everything he does is this, you know genius
Complexities of NBA Trades
00:12:23
Speaker
plan. every Everything was a masterstroke of of logic and and planning.
00:12:28
Speaker
I mean, it's it's probably somewhere in between. Like, I'm sure he didn't want it to be as public as it was. If you look at his track record of trades and and things, it's very, very quiet before anything happens. Yeah.
00:12:42
Speaker
I mean, look, like the Heat paid a ridiculous amount of of stuff to get to the point where like their team is just gutted. And I don't see how they're anywhere closer really to being a contender. I mean, I get it. They are because it's Giannis. But like, I mean, they don't have anything else. They have no depth. And I'm not sure how Bam and Giannis fit together, to be honest with you, especially on the offensive end. So I don't think he messed up.
00:13:09
Speaker
as bad as we think he i'm trying to split the hair here uh you know yeah you gotta give it no no splitting those i don't yeah yeah and so and look i believe he's he's too smart to to do this without realizing that he might not get the player he wants and to not have a backup plan so i don't think he messed up to be honest with you I think some of this too is the nature of the caliber of player you're going after. Like, for example, when they traded for Porzingis, I don't know about you guys. I didn't know Porzingis was available until the night they traded for him. Right. That kind of came out of nowhere.
00:13:41
Speaker
But when Jalen Brown was offered for Kevin Durant, that was kind of out there. And Durant at that time, He's a top five, top 10 player, much like Giannis is now. and i think sometimes when you get like, and and I know this is going back a ways, but when the Celtics traded for Kevin Garnett, they traded for him at the end of July and it felt like they'd been talking to the Wolves and we knew about it for over a month, if not more. So I think sometimes when you just, when you trade for a player or try to trade for a player of that high a caliber, you have to go in knowing that It's probably not going to be quiet. Like the Luca thing, staying quiet was more of the exception than the rule. And that was because that was a weird situation where they only talked to one team and did it really quickly. Like usually when you trade for a guy, that's that high profile or tried to, i feel like it, a lot of times it gets out there. So I,
00:14:25
Speaker
I would find it hard to believe they went into this not thinking that it would get out there at a minimum. I mean, just that you're talking about Giannis, common sense dictates there's only two ways to get him. And the most obvious way is the package centered on Brown. So they had to have gone into this at least with a pretty good idea that it was going to get out there. And then they have to have contingencies for that.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah. And a lot of people in the comments, obviously saying that, you know, JT and JB should stay together next year and they should be, they should, you know, you keep the core, right. And you build, build out from that. And I think in a vacuum, uh, that would be what you did. And like, you could, you find a way to would acquire ah a real good center and like you, you build pieces around it. But like, I don't know, dude, as Brad said, like something stunk, like he, that, that post game, sorry, postseason press conference was really telling. Like, Rad didn't come out and say, like, man, we just – couple opportunities. He came out and he's like, man, were really fucking suck we really Like, that's what he that's what he was saying. Like, we sucked.
00:15:27
Speaker
We blew it. Our pieces aren't good enough. We were 3-11 against teams over 500. We don't get to the rim. We shoot too many bad shots. Meanwhile, Joe Mazzula, the coaches over here, like, I like all the shots we take. And you're like wait, wait, so is the GM's disagreeing with the coach?
00:15:44
Speaker
Okay. Like what, how, what's going on? You know what i mean? So to me, that was, I thought, i thought fascinating. And I wasn't advocating firing Joe Missoula. I like Joe. I think Joe is a good player coach. The players love Joe.
00:15:56
Speaker
um And obviously we can debate stylistically what kind of basketball you want to play. But the the overarching point is that this doesn't exist in a vacuum. Like you have Jalen Brown, who's developed this kind of like, I want to be on Twitch streaming, like a public figure type persona um where that's, that's,
00:16:14
Speaker
maybe how he's going to want to be the rest of his life. Like he wants to be a public figure like that and be influential. And he's trying to do streaming things. And and I just think he, the I'll leave you with this. And then John, you can take it. But like the the comments that he made after the season ended, and know we've talked about this, but the comments he made saying it was his favorite season are really telling.
00:16:38
Speaker
And I can tell you that upset people around the organization. I can tell you, It pissed people – it rubs people the wrong way. When you blow a 3-1 lead, everyone in the organization is fucking pissed. You blow a lead to Philly. You've, like, never lost to them in the playoffs or whatever. And then you blow a lead. And and within two days, he's like, you know what, man?
00:17:00
Speaker
My favorite season ever. It's like, wait, you just got – your asses kicked. What are you talking about? So, sorry. Go for it. No, but what the the one thing that really bothered me about that is that if he had clarified it and said, well, it was my favorite regular season of my career, but I was upset with the playoffs and the way it ended, I frankly would have agreed with him. I mean, you look at the regular season, he took a team that some people before the year were saying 38 wins and tried to tank and got them to the two seed. And he mentioned seeing Tatum and his recovery journey and come back and how much he enjoyed that and the growth of the young players.
00:17:35
Speaker
But when you got to the playoffs, not only did you have a 3-1 lead, you had a lead at home in game five in the second half. And you blew that. and You blew game six. blue Game seven, I mean, what, they have three straight possessions down by one with the chance to take the lead and miss three straight shots? So if he had clarified that, if he had just said, hey, it was my favorite regular season ever, i i like I said, frankly, I would have agreed for But when he stuck to that, it's like, really? like you know That, I thought was – I didn't like that.
00:18:03
Speaker
But also, if we're being honest here – Is an organization, especially one as well run as the Celtics, are they really going to trade a guy who's a finals MVP and was sixth in MVP voting because he made a couple comments about the season on a stream they don't like?
00:18:18
Speaker
like I don't think they're going to do that. I think it has to be more than that. like If he really does yeah want his own team, then okay, that's a reason to trade him. You have a chance to get a guy like Giannis. It's not just Giannis, too.
00:18:31
Speaker
that he's a top five player. It's the type of player he is. We talked earlier about wanting more impact at the rim. I mean, last year, Giannis played 36 games. He made 321 shots within five feet of the rim.
00:18:43
Speaker
Guys, that would have been the most on the Celtics for all 82 games for any player. Like, totally different type of player than what they had. Not just that he was a top five guy. So I think... Yeah, I didn't like those comments, and I i think you should have clarified them regular season to postseason.
00:18:59
Speaker
But I also don't want to go as far as to say just because they were pissed at a couple stream comments he made that they're going to trade him because of that. Maybe it's one piece of the puzzle, but it's more than that to be willing to trade a Supermax guy that you drafted.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. Further. and i mean, how do you feel that I think, again, I think he could have, all he has to do is clarify his comments and say, you know what? It was a challenge. You know, JT coming back from his injury. Like I was the guy, like I, I enjoy the challenge, something like that. It's very easy to simplify that. And just, yeah, it goes away. All you have to do is just throw some bull, even if you don't believe it or mean it, you just say something, it's easy. It's PR one-on-one. You can get rid of it, but he didn't. Um, I,
00:19:40
Speaker
i Part of it is i like his attitude. i like Brown. I've always liked Brown. um I think he's got some of the stuff that Tatum, quite frankly, just doesn't have, and that's fine. But he's got an attitude. He's got, you know, he just kind of has that moxie and that kind of...
00:19:56
Speaker
that little little bit of grit to his game. and And I like that. And I think the team needs more of that. So it's another reason why I'm leery of trading him. Again, depends on the return. But, you know, you need to be able to make sure that you keep that.
00:20:08
Speaker
You need more of that, to be honest with you, especially in the playoffs when it when it really so everyone really starts play defense and gets really hard. and Well, and I don't think, again, like, I don't think they, you know, it's not trading him because he said that. But like you said, this it's interesting, right? if we really If we're really trying to break down Jalen Brown and Jalen Brown's psyche and say, He's a guy who considers himself maybe like a pseudo intellectual, right? He considers himself a thinker. He wants to be a thinker. He wants to be on stream, wants people to hear him. And then he says comments like that. And then he comes back the next night and has an opportunity to clarify. And he literally quite literally, i believe he said, um I met what I said.
00:20:47
Speaker
It was my favorite season. And he said, because we overcame, like he gave his justification, but he had an opportunity to change his language slightly.
00:20:58
Speaker
Right? Like he he truly had an opportunity. He could have said like, yeah, you know, he, again, he, he shared a stat mid season about how much better they were. Like they were better really like without Tatum this year.
00:21:09
Speaker
Like the better number, you know, he's sharing stats like that. And so it just makes you think there's stuff going on in the room. We don't get, you know, Brad's talked to Jason and they probably have to some realization. they're like, Hey, you know, this could be on the table to trade him. Maybe Jalen has gone to Brad himself and say like, I'd like an opportunity to have my own team and to be a focal, focal piece, the, the, the, the big piece somewhere else. Right. Like, these conversations probably have happened. This stuff isn't happening just again, it's not happening in a vacuum.
00:21:41
Speaker
These are, these are real people with real emotions. And, and again, yeah, these are, you know, we're not privy to this information. The one guy who's going to come out after this whole shit's over might be like him was back from the globe and come out and, and have some like details about what actually went down with, with Jalen Brown and Brad Stevens. But, But again, just want to clarify, I think this stuff has been building and happening for a long time. I just think, again, I think, it's my opinion, I think he's getting traded. It doesn't mean it's going happen. It's just my opinion.
00:22:12
Speaker
So, you know. I think there's a big difference, too, because there's always been talk about, like, oh, Tatum and Brown, and do they get along? And I just, I don't buy, I think that's more a, like,
00:22:23
Speaker
media driven like narrative than anything else like I haven't seen any real evidence they don't get along but there's also a difference between that discussion and hey does he want his own team which if he really does want his own team I understand that like he was sixth in MVP voting this year he's won a championship you could make a case that his play in the finals was one of the catalysts for the Mavs wanting to trade Luca because they didn't think he'd ever rise to that level whether you agree or disagree with that I think that was part of their thinking So I think it's two separate discussions like the Tatum Brown thing. I don't really buy at all. Them not getting along.
00:22:56
Speaker
But that doesn't mean that he would wouldn't go to Brad or wouldn't make it known. i'm Like, yeah, I would like my own team someday. And I can again, I can understand that i I wouldn't like it. I'd rather he stay here and they build around the two of them. But I also would understand where he's because it's something that even though he was the third pick in the draft, like you go, but he was booed on draft night. He came off the bench as a young player. Remember famously in the locker room when Kyrie was complaining, everybody it was jailing that said, well, it's not always the young guy said that publicly. You know, he's always again, he's a supermax player. I'm not trying to shed tears for the guy, but he he's always been the one.
00:23:34
Speaker
to have these little obstacles thrown in his way. And if he did want to go somewhere else to just have his own show, i would understand. Again, I wouldn't love it, but I would understand his point.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah. Do you guys think, do you guys still think he has a lot of trade value at this point? Like it's as high or do you think his value is decreased at all?
00:23:57
Speaker
think it's the highest it's ever been. Yeah. so let do Go ahead. You first. I was just talking a bunch. Yeah. Sorry. No, i was going to say, why is it, why would it have decreased at this point? He just said, well, just quickly, I think it, it could have decreased. I'm not saying it did. I'm saying it could have, because again, they didn't complete the trade and he was offered for Giannis with two first round picks and they did not accept it. So does that change his value? But again, there's no one,
00:24:24
Speaker
I get answered my own question. There's, there's no one you're trading for. That's going to be the same value as Jalen. So again, they, the Celtics just have to decide what the fuck you want to do. But yeah but greg go go for it. But, but that's the NBA. That's what I was saying before. Like generally speaking, when you trade a superstar in the NBA, you lose, you almost always lose.
00:24:41
Speaker
Like even, you know, look at the, even the Mavericks, right? They just traded, um, uh, shit. What's his name? Um, you Luca, again Luca, they traded Luca and yes, they get, they got Cooper flag, but like,
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. At best, you're even, right? Like, it's really, really hard to win a trade when you're the one trading the superstar. it's why the um That's why Giannis was the only trade that could have made sense because you are getting the best player in the deal.
00:25:08
Speaker
Right. So like you're not going to do that anywhere else, which is why you better be damn sure that you have you get enough pieces back to at least win a title to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, it's you blew up a core that has at least three more years of elite level play with those two players.
00:25:25
Speaker
yeah By the way, a comment here from Tom Smith just says, Savage, Miami is better than Boston. I don't agree. i don't just don't agree. and We can debate that. I just don't think Miami is better than Boston. Sorry, go for it. I don't think they are right now because Norm Powell is probably going to leave. like Obviously, look, Giannis is a top five player when healthy. Bam is a great player. I'm not saying they're not good, but I think they jump from a play-in team like they've been to maybe the four seed or the five seed, whereas the Celtics are the two seed. So I don't think Miami is a lot better than they were.
00:25:55
Speaker
I just don't see them being better than the Celtics, right? Long off season to go. But on your point about Jay, like his trade value has never been higher. And you look at the four times he's been talked about in a trade, like Kawhi was a top five player at the time. Anthony Davis was a top 10, whatever you want to call a player at the time. Durant, top 10 player at the time. And Giannis, top five player at the time. It's not like he's just been thrown out there. Like, yes, it's been four times, but it's been for guys that are the elite of the elite in the NBA. And you look at it now again.
00:26:24
Speaker
29, three years left on the deal. Shoney can win a championship, sixth in MVP voting. I just don't see his trade value ever being higher than it was than it is right now. I just don't see it ever being higher.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah.
Potential Teams for Jalen Brown Trade
00:26:39
Speaker
Well, I think, you know, ah last out let's touch and last thing on Jalen here, just because obviously otherwise the whole thing is going to be on Jalen. But, like, do you have any idea what you'd want to get back for Jalen or like what team, you know, cause again, people throw stuff out. Like people before the draft happened, have been again, Kawhi in the fifth overall pick, or some people have said, okay, it's, it's Trey Murphy and another dude. And a you know, it's like, there's to me, there's no home run and answer my own question first. um I don't necessarily like love the trades for him right now. I kind of want to keep him because I don't, I just don't think it was Giannis for me. Like that was it.
00:27:18
Speaker
Giannis was a trade I wanted. yeah That was a trade I thought should happen. And i'm surprised I'm surprised that they didn't actually take the deal still. And I think their owner came in and overrode the situation and made them take the younger the younger core. So again, is there is there like a deal or or specific players that you actually want to see them do for Brown?
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question, because now that you're at this point, as I mentioned earlier on, like, what's that line where you take the deal or you just try to work it out, even if he's unhappy? Because I still would love for them to try to just build around the two of them. They've shown they can do that before and win a championship. But like. Look, I mean, yeah, you can sit here and say, yeah, call Denver about Jokic and they'll say no. Call Indiana about Halliburton, they'll say no. But, like, if you're talking realistic, I look at Sacramento and I look at the Spurs. And I know the Hawks and the Rockets are going to be in on it. Maybe the Clippers will be eventually. Obviously, they already picked tonight at five. But, like...
00:28:13
Speaker
Sacramento has not just Sabonis, but they have some young pieces there. Maybe they can try to move and Jalen can take over. The Spurs are interesting to me because they have Stephon Castle. They have Dylan Harper. They can put those guys in a deal. They can throw in old friend Luke Cornett, too, which is not a great piece of a deal, but like...
00:28:32
Speaker
For salary matching purposes, and he's a big man. And you look at what the Spurs just did in the finals. They led 72% of the finals and they lost in five games. Maybe they want to keep it all together like the Celtics did in 2022, keep the core together and add to it.
00:28:47
Speaker
Or maybe they look at it and say, hey, we need a guy with finals experience and championship experience. And then try to bring in Jalen. To me, it's Sacramento and it's San Antonio. Those are the two teams I think have real assets that could you could bring back in a deal that maybe would make you better, but you would be similar, just kind of playing a different style. And also, obviously, again, the Hawks going to be in it. Maybe Orlando tries to be in it. I don't know if the Celtics like Banchero that much. But... They'll try to be in it. Houston will be in it. Seems like that. Like, and again, it's like I said with poor Zingas earlier in the show, I didn't know he was available to the night he got traded. There's probably someone available.
00:29:25
Speaker
We're not thinking of that's going to be available and we won't know until they're dealt. Yeah. True. So did you have anything, anything in specific? you you I mean, I was, I was going to say the Spurs, I don't want picks. Any pick you get, it's just going to be used in a different deal for someone else. So if they do it If they do trade him and if it does involve picks, we just have to be mindful that that just means there's another deal coming because picks are useless to this team at this point. I mean, any player you draft right now, even tonight, right?
00:29:53
Speaker
um yeah Anyone you were to take tonight isn't going to really contribute for at least three, four years. And by that point, Tatum's going to be, you know past 30 and, you know really going to, really, really going win now mode. So, yeah.
00:30:07
Speaker
I don't want picks. I want established players. i don't want to There's too many teams in this town that suck. I don't want any more that are going through a rebuilding thing. Well, as someone's mentioned the chat, Evan Mobley. I heard someone else float that earlier too. Like that's that's potential. Again, like the problem is you're just not going to get equal value back. So I kind of this point what i what I want, and I'll put this on again record here. I think at this point I want them to keep him. I don't think they're going to. I want them to keep JB, keep them together, see a way if you can add ah Trey Murphy. Again, like so you can have JB, JT, Trey Murphy, and then you need like a legit center.
00:30:45
Speaker
Like that's what i would that's what I would do. And I think if you – maybe again you trade Derek White for Rudy Gobert, right? And you just swap you swap them because the money is the same because D. White was atrocious last season, um the whole season. i don't know. I hope he bounces back if you keep him. But like he did not have a good season and it had a horrid postseason. So – I don't know if you get a center JT JB and Trey Murphy as you're a core four. i don't think that to me, that's good team. And that's a, that's a really solid team. Like, are you good enough to win it all? I don't know. I just think that's a solid team. They would win a lot of games and be really competitive, but I just, I get the feeling they're, they're gonna, they're gonna offload.
00:31:23
Speaker
You know, I think they're gonna offload Jalen. I just, that's, that's my opinion. Um, I'm going to pivot now because, again, we're talking about the Celtics for a while.
New England Patriots' Receiver Strategy
00:31:30
Speaker
So, sorry, if you're tuning in about Celtics talk, you can go watch the draft. But um just just to chat for the Pats a little bit because, obviously, we we that's usually our focal point is talking to the Patriots. But there's so much fucking Celtics recently. Like, this is the busiest time. It's been a long time news-wise, especially for the Celtics. Kind of had a funny thing happen today. I thought it was hilarious. I saw a report.
00:31:53
Speaker
I saw a report today, and I was reading something on Twitter. obviously. And ah I saw a report from 20, it was like 20 days ago or something from, ah from, ah oh my God, I forget his name. A guy, Dan Graziano, he had a report for 20 days ago. It said like people were calling on booty for trade talks.
00:32:11
Speaker
That's all it said. Something like that. It was from a while ago, but I was like, oh I don't think I tweeted this out. So I just, I tweeted out there. I think within like two hours, I heard the, I heard the report on the updates on Felger and Maz.
00:32:25
Speaker
like They're like, Dan Graziano reports that ke shan boot the Patriots have received calls on K'Shawn Booty. and I just thought it was funny. I was like, they just read did they just read my tweet and put it on the headlines? like Did they see when the report was from? Because for me, like it was it's a 20-day-old report. i just thought it was really funny. It just shows that they're you know they're on Twitter looking at shit to throw up on you know throw up on the rundown or whatever. but um I guess let's let's start there, man. are we Are they getting calls on Booty? Are they going to trade Booty? what's Who's got some opinions on that?
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think he's going to be here – I mean, maybe during this, I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by the end of camp. And I think the thing about Kayshaun Booty and his spot is just there's a lot of redundancy there, right? Like A.J. Brown's going to be your ex. Romeo Dobbs is going to be your Z. In the slot, you'll have Kyle Williams or DeMario Douglas, and Kyle Williams played a lot of ex last year, too. You have Mac Hollins, who's a big guy. Like, I just don't see a ton of snaps for Kayshaun Booty in that mix unless someone gets hurt. And if I were him,
00:33:27
Speaker
Like one of the best freshman receivers in the country at LSU in 2020, but fell to the sixth round. He's been in the league a few years. This might be his only chance to get a big contract.
00:33:38
Speaker
So he might not want to stick around if that's the case. So unless there's some sort of injury to somebody early in camp, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up moving him at some point this summer.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've talked about it before. think our, largely as a fan base, our perception of booty is way higher than how the NFL views him. He's a good player. I love his story. I love the fact that he showed up, like you said, sixth-arm pick, overlooked, busted his ass, especially when he started in the doghouse that first year after I think he fumbled once or dropped a pass or something. He didn't down bounds against Philly in week one. Yeah, he got one slow. We all joked around about it. It's not a college, bro.
00:34:20
Speaker
He did it twice in one game, including on the final drive. Belichick sent him to the moon, basically. He was never heard of again, right? um But I think if there was going to be a real offer for him, it would have happened already.
00:34:35
Speaker
I think his best bet, and i think the Patriots' best bet, is to wait through camp, see if someone gets hurt, either here or somewhere else. Because if someone gets hurt here, you know now you're not moving them.
00:34:45
Speaker
right um or if someone gets hurt somewhere else okay maybe now they're willing to pay a little bit more because it's right you know towards the season that's to me that's probably what's going to happen um i don't think they keep seven receivers i know mike reese had something like about that um i don't think they keep seven just because they're going to need the unlike years past they actually have talent and depth at other spots on the roster so there's other more valuable players or positions that they can use that roster spot for um So I don't think he'll be here unless someone gets hurt, which obviously I i hope doesn't happen.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, also read today that Breer said a while ago the Patriots wanted like a third. I think I believe the the article I read misspoke. They said a third third round pick. I believe they meant to say a day three pick was I believe what the article meant to say, because again,
00:35:38
Speaker
there's no chance you're getting a high pick for booty. And I think at this point, unless someone gets desperate, for it like I think he would be a great fit for the Kansas city chiefs, to be honest. I think, again, I know that nobody values him as we do as fans, but again, if this is the Brady days flashback, this is a Brady days.
00:35:55
Speaker
And we're talking about your wide receiver, like three who had 500 yards receiving. Do you think we'd be talking this much and have the fan base being like, we need him. you know mean? Like it just wouldn't happen.
00:36:07
Speaker
and so i think we got to go back into an era now now that we want to be good again and we have a much better roster and a lot more talent and mike variable and you know we gotta to go back to expecting good players and and i'm not saying casein booty is bad but we shouldn't be making like the fan base is making a real fucking stink out of trading booty every time you mention it people get pissed And i think it's I think it's a little over the top, man. If you trade – like, you really think that's harming your team if you trade Keyshawn Booty? Like, does that really harm you? Yeah.
00:36:40
Speaker
And I think, too, like – and I know he's had a good rapport with Drake May, and they've had a lot of touchdowns together. But how many of those touchdowns were A-plus, almost perfect throws from May in the one spot? And look, the catch against Houston in the playoff game, one of the best catches I've ever seen by a Patriots receiver. He's a good player. But – Like a guy like AJ Brown gives you margin for error that if you don't have a perfect ball, he can still go get it.
00:37:08
Speaker
I don't think that's something Kayshawn Booty is going to do a lot. Not that he can't make contested catches, but AJ Brown last year had what? 17 contested catches would have been the most on the Patriots. That's just one example, but like he's a pretty good player.
00:37:22
Speaker
He had a good rapport with Drake May. But it's just there's now a guy ahead of him that's definitely better than him. And there may be some other options as well. And I think if you can get value for, again, if everyone stays healthy, if you can get value for him, then it might be worth it. And on the point about them keeping seven receivers...
00:37:40
Speaker
It gets a little dicey when your first-round pick in Caleb Lemieux is going to be a swing tackle. So that's six offensive linemen right there, plus Ben Brown is seven. Let's say they keep Marcus Bryant, who had you know some flashes last year of development.
00:37:55
Speaker
That's eight. like If you're going to keep you know eight or more offensive linemen and maybe three running backs, like there's only so many receivers you can keep. You're going to have to probably keep an extra defensive tackle or two. So Milton Williams and Christian Barmore don't get run into the ground. Like it's again, these things add up pretty quickly. So I just, they're going to have to make a couple, at least one, if not two tough decisions in that receiver group this summer.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think they keep, I don't think they keep seven. I know that I know again, like, and I know was in the Reese piece like, oh, someone says like Troy Brown says they could. i just They've done it. Math gets tough.
00:38:33
Speaker
That's all. I think either someone's in my opinion, again, someone's leaving, right? Whether it's Pop Douglas, who I think they like, and I think they want to keep Pop there. Like, I don't think. Although again, Pop doesn't have the the next contract right now.
00:38:46
Speaker
So again, you got follow the money too. Like Booty's on his last year of the deal. Pop's on the last year of the deal. You know, Chisholm potentially could go, I think back his year too. He could go back to the practice squad for a little and maybe you don't lose him.
00:38:59
Speaker
But I think, you know, someone would try to sign him. um And again, like, i don't know. You got follow the money. I think you're going to either one of those, Booty or Pop are probably going to be the odd man out.
00:39:11
Speaker
And so again, like, And I think Pop Douglas has his use as a change-up type player in the offense. The problem is, like, size-wise, you know, Pop doesn't fit what they want to do right now. i I disagree. I think he can fit because they need a guy like that in the slot. Like, he's the only real guy in the slot with quick twitch that can get open underneath. Now, he didn't do enough of it last year.
00:39:39
Speaker
but he's really the only guy like Kyle Williams has a great release package at the line. He's got great speed, but he wasn't on the same page with may consistently last year. And he hasn't really played the slot at the NFL level yet. Like I think Douglas has value in that.
00:39:54
Speaker
I think the skillset he brings is one that they like, like the McDaniels likes in that offense. And I feel like he's going unless there's someone, maybe it's an undrafted guy, maybe Chisholm develops that a little bit more, but Douglas is really the only guy with that specific skillset, much like Matt Collins and his size.
00:40:12
Speaker
He's like AJ Brown's big at six one, but Matt Collins is the only truly really tall, big guy they have. And that in itself is a virtue, I think for him making the roster. So I think it comes down to like,
00:40:25
Speaker
Booty, Chisholm, like, do you keep both of those guys? do you keep one of those guys? Do you keep neither? i don't think they'd go so far as to keep neither of them, but I don't know if they keep both of those guys.
00:40:36
Speaker
So I understand what you're saying. um I like Pop, and I think Pop could be dynamic still in the slot if he figures out how to, like, sit down in a zone and run the right routes. Like, I think pi Pop is a good player and ah and ah and a very quick, twitchy player.
00:40:52
Speaker
But I'm talking, like, As far as the profile of wide receiver, they are filling the room with, right? Like when you look at the profile of player they want, yeah you ask yourself like who, what type of wide receivers do they want right? now And you look at Matt Collins and you look at AJ Brown and you look at Romeo Dobbs and they're all fucking moose.
00:41:14
Speaker
Like they're all huge. They all block. They're all physical. And that's why I wonder, again, it's like, no slight to pop. I like pop. I think pop is dynamic and he shows out every training camp, slows down every season.
00:41:27
Speaker
But like, I think hes he's dynamic. But again, I'm just talking the 20,000 foot view of how big these players are. And and do they just want to fill the wide receiver room with dudes that can,
00:41:37
Speaker
with literally can can block like you can have any package, any block, you know, like you can have versatility every every play. counter but That's the point, right? You want a guy in there that brings something different to the table, right? And we've seen that with the McDaniels offense over the course of many years, like David Givens and Dion Branch, granted that was Charlie Weiss, didn't bring exactly the same skills to the table. Same with Moss and Welker, same with Chris Hogan and Edelman and LaFell. like they And look, Hogan and LaFell were both big guys. And Edelman is a bit of a bigger slot, but they didn't also bring the same things as Amendola. So I agree with you that they did need to add more size, like not just Matt Collins last year, but A.J. Brown. Yeah, like A.J. Brown this year. like they And they did add size. But I think for Pop's role, it's good to have a guy with that different skill. So now he has to be more consistent.
00:42:30
Speaker
with it. Like I know he became a deep threat last year and that's fine and all, but they do need more consistent production underneath because your only answer underneath can't be Hunter Henry or a swing pass to one of the running backs. Like you do need more production and maybe Kyle Williams could be a guy that does that too. I don't know. He did some of it in college, but not a ton. He didn't really do it last year, but I still think In this offense, but also in general, I think you want a guy like that. He's just got to do it on a more consistent basis, I think, this year.
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I think are yeah the other part of it is you have to look at the tight end room, right? With the the tight end that they signed going down, really the only two tight ends on the roster of of any value in the passing game are Henry, who's slowing down and older, and then Raritan, the tight end, yeah the rookie, right? And again, he's more of a, I know he's a big receiving threat, but he's not like uber athletic or anything. So,
00:43:26
Speaker
you know i mean If you really are missing a lot of that intermediate and you know kind of game, you need someone who, A, can get open in the intermediate part of the passing game, but then also I'd love it if we could get people who could make break a fucking tackle and actually get some yak.
00:43:42
Speaker
They haven't had that for so long that like you need a guy who can you know make the first guy miss and turn a four-yard pass into a nine-yard game. That's how you stay ahead of the sticks. that They haven't had that in forever.
00:43:55
Speaker
Not consistently. I think that's going to be a Romeo and Hobbs thing, by the way. what What about that? Romeo Dobbs is going to be a guy that I think you see get a lot of yak yards, much like when they signed Kendrick Bourne in 2021. I know it didn't end well. People forget he had 800 yards receiving that first year. lot of yak yards. Like, yeah like I think Dobbs will give you obviously he's a better player than Bourne, but I think he'll give you some of that stuff, which again, you're right. They don't get enough yak out of their passing game. Brown will give you some of that, but i think you'll see a lot of that from Romeo Dobbs this year.
00:44:29
Speaker
I wonder with with you know with Kyle Williams, I mean, this is real make or break shit this year. like this is real Like this is real. You flourish or flounder, man. Like this is a big – it's a big, big year for him and his career because you can see it, man. and we all Again, everyone loves the phrase release package, right? Like you can see it with his release package. You can see how he gets off the line. He's he's fast. But what you didn't see it last year – was him running the right route or being in the right place. Or like every time Drake threw him the ball, it didn't go where you thought it should go. And you're like, why is that not happening? So I think to me, i think you quickly need to see that change. And like, can he be your fourth option?
00:45:14
Speaker
Absolutely. and And can he, can he be a 600 yard receiver this year? I think that would be great for him. But You got to see it. and And I'm not like people again, get weird on on Twitter. sometimes Sometimes they're like, ah it's caught. We're going to pump up Kyle. And I don't want any more receivers. What do you need to get? I had people tell me they didn't want AJ Brown because they wanted to let Kyle Williams develop. I was like, Oh my God.
00:45:38
Speaker
I was like, what people are demented. Like I, it's a crazy take. So, but again, like where are we out on Kyle Williams? You guys, you guys have like, you think he's going to accelerate into this year or you just kind of like wait and see?
00:45:52
Speaker
I think Kyle Williams is the wild card in all this because we've seen flashes of it, right? The 71 yard catch and run touchdown against Tampa Bay. There was the great over the shoulder touchdown catch against the giants. Like you can see him being a really good NFL receiver. The problem was there was weeks at a time last year where he disappeared and he had no impact. So yeah,
00:46:13
Speaker
If he can give you, again, he's not going to be the most impactful guy in the room, but if he can be consistently, like, he can give you a long catch and run or some sort of big play, like, every couple weeks or so and, like, have an impact like that, we could be talking about this as a top five or six receiver group in the NFL. Like, he could up them to that level.
00:46:34
Speaker
Whereas if he's... missing in action like he's been at times last year, then again, it'd still be a very good receiver group. But it's he has a speed element that no one else in that receiver group has. And the only other guy in the offense that has it is Travion Henderson. He brings a unique speed element to the table. But to your point, he's just got to put it together. And if he does put it together, again, he's the wild card in all this. Because if he puts it together and he's just more consistent than a year ago,
00:47:02
Speaker
That's going to be a really, really good receiver group, and it's going to be something that's really difficult for defenses to game plan for. Yeah, I think he's going to be the type of receiver that, particularly with the depth that that he has in front of him, he is not going to put up gaudy numbers in terms of targets and receptions, but he has the potential to have a number of explosive plays where you turn around and he's got 650, 700 yards on the season, but it's not, it's on like,
00:47:29
Speaker
you know not nearly as many receptions as you'd think. um So he's not going to show up week in and week out, but he may have he's going to have spurts where he's going to go off. I think that's what this season is going to look like, and that's honestly a step forward for him. that's more i think he he will be more productive than he was last year. um he's Look, do I think he's go ever going to be like a number one true outside guy? No, that's not who he is. But to your point, John, like he brings an element – of speed to this offense that just simply no one has i mean that that reception against the bucks was you know the most telling one he simply just ran away from legit nfl players like that that's just silly speed that nobody else has yeah no he's athletic but um yeah i think the only other bigger talking point there's i mean there's a couple one was the christian gonzales contract which
00:48:20
Speaker
will Will happen at some point.
Contract Issues with Gabe Ackes
00:48:22
Speaker
like that That will happen. That'll get done. He'll be in camp. i you know Will he be in camp holding in? Maybe, but he'll be there. And again, we can that'll get done. Again, my opinion, people can say whatever. My opinion, that'll be done at some point. I think the Gabe Ackes situation is like slightly more interesting.
00:48:39
Speaker
And ah and i know people have touched on this again. Like, I don't know. I don't really at this point, like think this is just getting fucking weird. And I think some weird shit going on. and don't like it. Try to dig around at people about this.
00:48:52
Speaker
And it's just, everyone's kind of like, yeah, it's weird. So when you get a lot of like, yeah, it's weird. it's It's weird. It's a strange situation. There's my big insight. um ah Whether or not he lied to the organization about ah whether he needed or didn't need a surgery, whether they the medical staff told him don't get a surgery, and he did anyway.
00:49:15
Speaker
Something odd happened that the team didn't like, won't guarantee his money while he's at camp. and you know i don't know I don't know if you have any insight to provide to this situation, John, but i don't like the whole Gabe Ackes thing is things really weird to me.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's frustrating on multiple levels, right? Because first, they traded up. They traded three picks to draft him. Then you look at the position he plays, defensive end, which is premium position to begin with, but also especially for the Patriots, which I think defensive end is their thinnest position group. like Safety's kind of thin. Tight end's kind of thin. But I think defensive end, like they let Anthony Jennings leave. They let Caleb on chase on leave. They signed Draymond Jones, who I think is a pretty good player. They played against him twice last year.
00:50:00
Speaker
And they have Harold Landry, but Jones is only one guy. Landry got hurt last year and faded down the stretch. Like, of all their rookies, guys, Gabe Ackes has the best chance to have an impact this year. Whereas Lemieux, Raritan, Prunty, Crowdover, those guys, like, those to me are more 2027 guys. Not that they won't have any impact this year, but I just really think, like, even J.M. Miller...
00:50:24
Speaker
They're more 2027 guys with Gabe Ackes could have a real impact this year at a premium position. And now it's like there's friction between him and the team. You saw Mike Vrabel. You could tell at that press conference when he was asked about him, wasn't happy. Them not giving him the player participation agreement, which is kind of standard for... like every rookie.
00:50:43
Speaker
That was really weird to me. Like that, that's like, you don't hear of that ever being not given to a guy, especially for a second round pick. It'd be one thing if they tried to haggle some undrafted free agent or a seventh round guy, which even then they don't do, but it's just the whole thing is weird. And now he doesn't have a contract still. And I know last year Henderson signed late, but there were several second round picks that signed late. Atkins is the only one. It was never weird with Henderson. Like it was never considered. It was like, oh, I want him to sign, but no one signed, you know? And I think one thing that's worth pointing out is Henderson was a 38th overall pick. Atkins is 55, right? Like, yes, they're both second round picks, but there's a 17 pick difference. between the two guys as well when you talk about contracts, compensation. So it's a weird situation, but it's also frustrating on multiple levels considering the capital they gave up to get him, the position he plays, and the specific needs the Patriots have at that position kind of creates this perfect storm where I'm not going to sit here and say they're totally screwed if he's not out there, but they are in a worse spot if he's not out there in training camp or if he somehow, you know, it affects any sort of his regular season.
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's certainly be really, really bad. i mean, they they need impact from that position. I think Bedard had it saying it was ridiculous to assume that he would make an impact this year.
00:52:03
Speaker
I mean, not really. Like, the opportunity's there. Like, I'm not saying he's an every-down player, but I see no reason why he couldn't come in and be a rotational pass rusher, right, and third down and and mix in on the early downs a little bit. Like, that's not outrageous for a second-round pick, particularly an older one with plenty of college experience. Like, I don't see why that's a ridiculous expectation.
00:52:22
Speaker
You know you're not looking for 12 sacks on the year right away, but, you know. four, five, six sacks, something like that in a limited role, rotational role. Like that's – I don't see that as unreasonable to expect. Well, hold If you're – well, if you're Greg Bedard, you know, apparently that's just – you just couldn't expect an impact this season whatsoever, as Greg said on his podcast. He said – I think the impact for him, though. How could you expect impact from the 55th overall pick?
00:52:49
Speaker
I think the impact for him would be like by Halloween. And what I mean by that is like Jones and Landry going to be your guys that start the year. But like it's a chance Akis could work into the top rotational role. Right. And then maybe if Landry fades again, gets hurt, Jones gets hurt.
00:53:06
Speaker
he has a chance to have a significant role on this team. Again, don't think it would be week one or week two, but by Halloween, second half of the year, think there would be an opportunity for him to have a real role there. And again, it's the combination of the position itself, but also their own individual need. But now with this situation, maybe it sets that clock back and maybe he won't have as much of an impact if he starts out behind the eight ball in training camp and is spending most of August trying to catch up.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. just think it's, to me, again, we'll we'll wrap it soon so we don't keep you guys forever. um But I think it's ridiculous assertion to say that the guy you traded up for at 55th overall shouldn't be making an immediate impact on your team. And and no, that doesn't mean he's an all-pro immediately, but that's a person. You take a second round, it's my opinion, you take a second round draft pick to have an impact that year.
00:54:01
Speaker
that's that That is the goal of a second-round pick. Like Travion Henderson had whatever, 900 yards rushing you know and a couple hundred yards receiving. I'd say he made an impact. For all the criticism he got, hit a lot of touchdowns, got a bunch of home run hits, clearly made an impact. if You're taking a second-round pick.
00:54:17
Speaker
You expect them to be an impact player and to have an impact on your season. This isn't a fifth-rounder, a sixth-rounder, a developmental. This is even third-round picks I want to have some sort of impact.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, so again, like it depends on your expectation, but yes, Gabe Ackes, I think we're in for some real shit. If we get to training camp and this isn't done, and then you're going to be, it's going to real story.
00:54:42
Speaker
i mean, again, for maybe like sickos like us who just pay attention to the Patriot stuff way too much, but like, yes, it'll be a, it'll be a story for us. Maybe not the general public, but I hope this isn't a Shamar Stewart situation.
00:54:56
Speaker
of really fucking around with contract and demanding money and holding out. Like that was awful. And he had an awful season. And I think Vrabel has been very clear in the media that Akis will fall behind doing this. He will fall behind and he's already falling behind. And Vrabel is publicly putting a lot of pressure on him. Like, what are you doing? And that's what Vrabel saying. I like my edge room. Yeah, I like everyone that's here.
00:55:20
Speaker
like he's putting public pressure on Akis and then Akis is sharing workout videos. it's like What are we doing? So again, very odd. um I just want to, I want to wrap it up here just because again, we're, we're 55 minutes in any John, any final thoughts you want to get out today? Anything you want to get off your chest before you wrap it up?
00:55:38
Speaker
Yeah. Just a pleasure joining you guys, talking some Celtics, talking some Patriots. So hopefully we get the chance to do it again soon, but it was a pleasure joining you guys. Appreciate it, man. Snooty, you got anything?
00:55:50
Speaker
No, just a pleasure to have you on the podcast. It's great talking sports. I can't wait till the Patriots are back and we actually have, you know, real games with a real team to talk about. Yeah, dude. I mean, I'm going to try to get down to training camp on the first day, I think on the 25th. I'll try to get down there. You know, I wish they would lift some of those rules and let you take videos and stuff like that. But unfortunately that stuff's going to be pretty, pretty under lock and key. So, you know, we'll see. But, ah but yeah, thanks for coming on, John. And thanks everyone for who tuned in and we will catch you next time. Peace.