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00:00:01
Are the Packers Playoff Chances Sleeping With the Fishes?
62 Plays2 years ago
G'day! Nick and Joe are joined by Pack-a-day co host, writer for Packer Report and Godfather of GameOn Wisconsin, Jacob Westendorf! With the Bye week the guys talk about what the offseason could look like, Packers chances at making the playoffs and looking ahead to the Rams game.
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Transcript
Introduction and Weekly Catch-up
00:00:21
Speaker
Good day, everyone. Welcome to the Outback Packers podcast. The podcast with two mates from all the way across the world. Have a yarn talking Packers football and the green and gold. I'm Nick Gregory, joined as always by my co-host, Joe Pearson. Take a look at the Packers off season plans and sneak a peek at the upcoming Rams game. But before we start, let's welcome on very special guest, writer for Packer Report, co-host of Packer Day and the godfather of game on Wisconsin, Jacob Westendorf. Why Jacob?
00:00:47
Speaker
You like that one, didn't you? That was quite an intro. I appreciate that. Let me let me real quick. Let me go shave real fast. I get one of the really thin mustaches like the Godfather. But yeah, I know. I appreciate the appreciate the welcome. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys having me back after last week's little hiccup. So we'll call it a bye. We're going to talk about that one. All right.
00:01:13
Speaker
No, we appreciate you coming on at this late hour. So, you know, not a lot of people are up this time. So we appreciate you sacrificing. Never too late to talk about the Green Bay Packers, even in admittedly not the greatest of seasons. But yeah, let's get to it, man.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, so as always, every single week we start here just by doing a little bit of a catch up and a look, see around kind of the conference, especially. I mean, this week was kind of a funny one for the, especially for our division, right? I mean, the Lions have kind of started to go on a little bit of a tear here. They're kind of picking up a little bit. And that was a good game. Yeah. I mean, that was the only game I got to watch because that was the only noon game that was on our local stations.
00:01:57
Speaker
And that was a good game. I don't know if you guys got to watch it
NFL Games and Player Highlights
00:02:01
Speaker
or not. Oh, I bought Sunday ticket. So I'm certainly getting my money's worth on that front. Yeah, I got the Lions and Vikings. I got some Eagles and Giants throughout the course of that. But it's fun. The Lions, I'm on Ross St. Browns on my fantasy team. So I watched them by extension. Jamal Williams, friend of Game on Wisconsin, my favorite player in the NFL. So I roofed again.
00:02:23
Speaker
for him when he's not playing the Packers. Aiden Hutchinson, the best Michigan player I ever saw in his prime play. So. Okay. Now I got to take a time out on that because obviously we got a lot. I mean, we could do a whole nother episode
NCAA Football Transfers and Potential
00:02:37
Speaker
of a podcast over this because you're Michigan. I'm Iowa.
00:02:42
Speaker
How'd last year's Big Ten championship game go? Yeah, we don't talk about that one too much. But the big question is, is what the hell is Cade Mac and the mayor thinking by going from one program that didn't use the quarterback to another program that doesn't use their quarterback? Yeah, I can't speak for Cade. Obviously, I'm speaking like I am friends with him.
00:03:05
Speaker
Uh, I, you know, I don't know. I think that when he came in this year, uh, last year, obviously Michigan won the big 10 for the first time in, in 18 years. It had been since 2003. It beat Ohio state for the first time in 10 years. Uh, and he did, he was rock solid, you know, solid at fun, spectacular. I will say, um, from Iowa quarterbacks that I've seen that they've had in recent years.
00:03:27
Speaker
what Nate Stanley and whoever those bombs were that they trotted out there this year, like he's better than all of those dudes. You know, I just, I'm not sure what his thought process was. I know he had some quote the other day saying, please think we're still going to be a crappy offense. He said something else. You know, I don't know. I think that.
00:03:48
Speaker
He wanted something similar. He's from Vegas. And maybe he didn't want to go back out there. Maybe he wanted to stay in a program and have a shot to play Michigan. Because I mean, that's the reality about his situation was he was the quarterback who won the Big 10 for the first time in 18 years. And then he came back this year and got benched. So that certainly is something. It was the right decision. JJ McCarthy is much more talented than Cade McNamara. But when you're Cade, I would certainly understand feeling slighted by that.
00:04:17
Speaker
I got to wonder if he's kind of regretting it now after all the guys that are jumping from Iowa into the transfer portal because they've lost two of their top receivers or two of their young up and coming receivers.
00:04:30
Speaker
that's
00:04:51
Speaker
a couple other more talented guys. And, you know, Arlen was supposed to be the second coming of and Keegan was coming into his own. And you got to wonder if Cade's kind of regretting it now that, you know, hey, these guys are leaving when I'm just showing up and Iowa doesn't have much else sitting down there. So I don't know. It's crazy. It's going to be interesting.
00:05:15
Speaker
and their tight end is going to be a Green Bay Packer by this time next year, so. I'm going to say he's going to go and we can put this down as like Joe's prediction.
Packers Player Performance and Potential
00:05:25
Speaker
He's going to go in the fifth round just like George Kittle did because the big knock on him is at least in my eyes from seeing week in week out as he's not consistent with his hands.
00:05:38
Speaker
And I think he'll go in and I think he'll tear up the combine just like Kittle did. But I still think he's gonna fall to that mid round range just because they're gonna question his hands. Okay, well, I'm gonna give you a name for Iowa to keep an eye out for then and it's Tyler Ellsbury. That kid's gonna be a really good offensive lineman for you guys at some point if he sticks around. I don't know.
00:06:04
Speaker
They're all skipping out though, because right now we're worried about the top five guy out of Southeast, or I mean the five star out of Southeast Polk, that Caden Proctor, he's taken other visits after verbally committing, so there might be an opening for him. There you go. Well, Tyler is, I believe he'll be a sophomore next season. I think he was a redshirt freshman, so he should be a redshirt sophomore, but I've known him since he's like 10 years old.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah. It doesn't stop her. Kirk will go out there and recruit him as a sophomore. There you go. So sorry, Nick. That was a little bit of our little side corner here, because we don't have that much back and forth on Twitter, so we've got to do it somewhere.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think, well, speaking of former Packers, I mean, you know, Joe's number one, he gets crushed.
00:07:04
Speaker
of the season before he left, Amari Rogers popped off for, was it a touchdown in 50 yards? Was it four catches? Four catches, 57 yards with one touchdown, and it's his first career touchdown. Come on, man. I'm not the number one fan. I just was not ready to move up on the guy.
00:07:24
Speaker
I saw Jacob talking about this a little bit. We've talked about this before. There's two camps of thought when it comes to Mario. One is he was just not utilized properly and maybe he's going to be a great player, but the Packers just didn't support him enough. The other train of thought, which is what I think, is that he didn't show enough to really get those opportunities. He didn't earn them.
00:07:49
Speaker
And I mean, look, either way, he's a form packer. I'm going to support him. He's such a lovely guy. And, you know, he has a connection with Randall Carvin. It's nice to see him doing well, but I'm not like, wistful and missing him and like wishing that we never released him. I mean, where are you at with this jacket?
00:08:05
Speaker
No, I have I I said last year. I remember after the Lions game the season finale That you could make a case that the Packers should build their roster for 2022 as if Amari Rodgers wasn't on it Never showed any flashes as a Packer like that says I'm an NFL player Showed plenty of flashes that says I'm not an NFL player never looked comfortable return I was at his first preseason game and I remember noting that
00:08:33
Speaker
he looked like Peyton Manning in the pocket where like if you're chopping your feet underneath you trying to catch a punt that tells me you're not comfortable doing that which is odd because he had experience doing that in college so this idea that the Packers did him wrong by making him a punt returner because it was something he never did is wrong because he had done it before he just didn't do it well in the NFL for whatever reason and the other thing is like
00:08:55
Speaker
I made note of, if you're going to play him, which the idea was like, oh, give him a chance at receiver. Okay. Over who? Alan Lazard. He's not better than Lazard. Randall Cobb is not better than Randall Cobb. Christian Watson is a, the, I think he's in the hall of fame already. So there's that Romeo Dobbs when he's healthy, you're not playing him over that people say like Sammy Watkins, but Watkins and Rogers played two different positions for one. And secondly,
00:09:20
Speaker
He had just as many career fumbles as he did catches in his time in Green Bay. So, like, if he's fumbling the ball as a punt returner, why am I going to manufacture touches for him on offense when there's a pretty good chance based on what we've seen, he's going to fumble. The kiss of death for Amari, and when I figured out it wasn't going to work in Green Bay, for sure, for sure, was when, I think it was early in the season, Matt Steinman of the Athletic asked a question, like, about Amari Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers was just like, yeah, he's returning for us.
00:09:49
Speaker
That's all I got.
Packers Playoff Chances and Season Reflection
00:09:50
Speaker
You're okay. Here's the thing. Rogers gets a lot of like crap. I don't have a more technical term for that for like the way he speaks about players, but he'll tell you if somebody's good. Like Pat McPhee, he'll tell you when he's like, Oh, Christian Watson, even when Watson hadn't done this yet, he would note how he'd go back through the film and still see Watson being open to potentially make plays if he's in the progression or, you know, just whatever reason they didn't hit on something or whatever.
00:10:18
Speaker
He'll also tell you when he thinks a player stinks. But he's not going to say players are good or bad. He was complimentary of Romeo Dobbs. He was complimentary of Samari Toure eventually after he was calling him Captain Casual. We don't want to talk about that because I'm so pissed off with that.
00:10:34
Speaker
Sorry. That's fine. But I mean, he's complimentary of players like this. This notion that Aaron Rodgers only cares about his friends on the team or whatever I think is an easy boogeyman to point to because the offense stinks. But like that's not why the in my opinion, that's not why the offense stinks. And there's that's a that's a whole episode in itself of why the offense has failed for the most part in twenty twenty two. But
00:11:02
Speaker
No, they don't miss Amari Rodgers. Amari Rodgers has been gone for a month. Yesterday was his first catch in Houston. So like, yeah, I did find it humorous. These people that were taking a victory lap on, see, I told you they should have played him. Okay. So he has, let's extrapolate that he's been gone for a month. Let's say it's been four games. He averages now one catch a game. They just all happen to come.
00:11:24
Speaker
against Dallas in one game and he scored and I don't know. There's nobody, there's no fan base I've seen that cries over spilled milk like Packers fans. That guy's gone. I remember a few years ago when they had Travis Fulghum in training camp. Yes. Yeah. I was going to mention that exactly. And they cut him and now like everyone was like, Oh my God, look at this huge mistake they made. He's balling out for the Eagles. And where's Fulghum at now? Does anybody remember? Oh, that's right. He's on a Packers practice squad. Like I sincerely think that
00:11:53
Speaker
you know, when we look back on everything, and maybe it won't be right. I don't I don't I'm not rooting for a Mari Rogers, but I'm not rooting against him either. But I think when we look back at his career, we'll be like, Yeah, that was the best giving his career. Yeah, it's quite possible. Yeah. And I was never I know, it sounded like I defended a Mari Rogers every time we turn around.
00:12:16
Speaker
But it was just more that when they're on the team, it's hard not to support them because we always say, you know, once you wear the green and gold, you're family. Well, you know, you got to stick with the guy if he's on the team.
00:12:32
Speaker
one way or the other. And I honestly don't think he did get a fair shake on offense. Now, I understand punt returns, kick returns. Yeah, he should have been booted off of them a long time ago. But I would have rather seen a little bit more out of them in the offense, especially when guys were going down with injuries. We lost Romeo. We lost Cobb. We lost those guys for a couple of weeks. And we still weren't seeing a lot of
00:12:59
Speaker
you know, snaps out of him. So I mean, not that like LaFleur and Rogers and Steno and all those guys, they could very well be wrong on stuff. They started Jake Hanson for God's sake, but I mean, doesn't it kind of tell you something that now for two years, Randall Cobb was injured both years he's been here and Amari's never taken a role in the offense.
00:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and last year was kind of hard because he kind of went the AJ Hawk route where he took some bad advice and really bulked up before the draft. And it zapped a lot of his stuff to where he came in heavy. He came in slow and all that stuff. So this year he talked about how he was working with guys. He dropped the weight. He was putting in the work with the Olympic speed coach.
00:13:51
Speaker
and stuff like that. So I don't know. I would have loved to seen a little bit more out of him. But again, I wasn't going to trash him. I mean, yeah, I was angry with him just as much as everybody else was with the punt and kick returns.
00:14:06
Speaker
But again, you know, I view it. We always talk about how the pack again, we talk about how the Packers are a family, you know, fans and players and all that stuff. So I don't know. I wasn't ready to, you know, completely, you know, want to kick his ass and throw him in a dumpster. But I understand what they were doing with him. If that makes sense. I know. I'm rambling. No, yeah. No, yeah. I think, yeah. I mean, look, I best wishes to him, but I'm I'm not sure that he's gone. I mean, you know, it's whatever.
00:14:35
Speaker
Um, the last thing I want to talk about here before we kind of get into the meat of this episode is just, you know, we're still technically in the mathematical race for the playoffs. Right. And our percentage actually went up too.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was. I think prior to this weekend, it was 9% or 8%. Went up to about, I think, I saw like 11.4%. It kind of changes depending where you look. I think Schneiderman said 11.6% or something like that, but I could be completely wrong. Right. And so I kind of went into the playoff calculator, played with a few different things. And you know, so if we win out, we have the Rams, the Dolphins, the Vikings, and the Lions.
00:15:13
Speaker
If we win out against all those teams, we have roughly 53% chance to make the playoffs. The teams that we're looking to compete against, hypothetically, the Giants, Seahawks, the Lions, and Washington, it's such a long shot. If this goes right and this goes right, maybe we get in.
00:15:37
Speaker
If there is a scenario where the Packers do get into the playoffs, I mean, do you see the Packers having any shot of beating any of these teams? Well, as of right now, if the season ended and the Packers got in, let's just say like everything breaks right. That means Green Bay is the seventh seed. Right now, the two seeds, the San Francisco 49ers. The Packers can't beat the 49ers when the 49ers are worse than they are.
00:16:01
Speaker
,
00:16:17
Speaker
The, I call this the trust the process era of sports, um, essentially derived from that Philadelphia 76ers team where people were actively celebrating them being terrible and making a complete mockery of sports and competition. Uh, and it happens now, I think more in, in all the sports, like you watch major league baseball, there are teams actively not trying to compete to win.
00:16:43
Speaker
which is supposed to be, and we're talking for years, like the Houston Astros are a modern day dynasty and that's how they were built. Sure. But they're also kind of the exception, like the Orioles have been tanking for years. I don't know if that's still tanking or not, or if they're just a shitty team.
00:17:02
Speaker
Well, they were a little bit better last year, so I will give them that. But I mean, there are teams that have been the Pittsburgh Pirates for years. They've been terrible. Like, I don't I don't do that. I don't like it. You know, some of that I can make the joke of it doesn't really matter where the Packers pick, because do you really trust Brian Goudekunst anyways? Maybe you still do. I think there's at least a fair question on that shake. The thing about this team is so coming into the year, I don't know what your guys expectations were. My expectations for the team was I didn't think they were a Super Bowl contender.
00:17:33
Speaker
I didn't think that when everyone was healthy, I had them winning 11 games and losing in the first round of the playoffs. I have that written down. That's the only reason I really remember that. But I had them winning 11 games, winning the division and losing in the first round. And I basically did that because I didn't think Minnesota would have a horseshoe jammed up their ass all season when it came to sheer dumb luck. The lions I still thought would suck. They don't. And the bears I thought were terrible and they are. I just didn't anticipate
Christian Watson's Offensive Impact
00:18:02
Speaker
quite this level of inconsistency from the Packers on offense. I thought they would be good enough on that side of the ball. And they really weren't in the first half of the season. And I never thought this defense was going to be great. I think the biggest mistake that the Packers fans, media followers, everything around the team did.
00:18:21
Speaker
was buy into a defense that was not good last year. I don't care how they, I know how they finished. They finished great, but game to game, they were not good. They finished poorly. I think they were ranked 23rd in football outsiders, defensive DBOA. That's the bottom third of the league. Like they were not good last year. The only thing they added to that defense was Jeron Reed, who was a nice rotational player.
00:18:43
Speaker
Kway Walker rookie, Devontae Wyatt rookie. So like expecting much more out of that, especially when you consider the high variance of Rasool Douglas and Dre Campbell potentially being one year wonders. And it certainly looks like that was the case for both of those guys have been fine, but none of neither one of them as good as last year. They're just not good enough. Like that's really what it boils down to. I will root for them to make the playoffs, but, and I'll root for them when they get to said hypothetical playoff game. But I very much believe if they played
00:19:13
Speaker
Philadelphia, San Francisco, even if they played that Dallas team again, the only reason I would have faith against Dallas is because of the Aaron Rodgers voodoo magic against the Cowboys that he seems to have. But I think all three of those teams in a normal setting and a normal game, if they played each other 10 times, would bash the Packers skulls in. Especially as this team, the health situation, it's actually getting better on offense, but it's likely
00:19:38
Speaker
to continue to decline. You know, the Rashawn Gary injury is one that is very hard, has been very hard for them to overcome. I don't think they'll be able, obviously, the defense is terrible. So they're not able to overcome that. So we're for them to win. I certainly would. And I think
Offseason Plans and Draft Strategy
00:19:56
Speaker
they have a good shot to win three out of those four games that you just mentioned. I have a hard time seeing them winning in Miami on Christmas day. But- Yeah. That Florida curse.
00:20:07
Speaker
the Florida, they could beat Minnesota at home. Like I wouldn't pick them to win either of those last two home games either though, because it was better and people will be like, well, it's hard to beat a team twice. And I understand that, but Minnesota is better than green Bay is. And Detroit is better than I didn't think I would ever say that, but Detroit is better than green Bay.
00:20:28
Speaker
So yeah, it is. And like I said, this seems not very good. It's fun. And I know that we're kind of riding maybe still a little high off the fact that they beat the Bears a couple of weeks ago. But I mean, they played like crap and beat the Bears. And it still took everything for them to beat Chicago. So I don't think they're very good. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Rams. But I wouldn't be surprised if they lost to them either. Yeah.
00:20:54
Speaker
I to go back to kind of what you said about you didn't know what we thought of the team going into the season. I'm always the okay we're going to the Super Bowl type guy be just because that's you know why not any given Sunday you can have that you know that's
00:21:13
Speaker
that can happen. But I think my fault was as I bought into the hype on the defense. We only lost one main starter on defense and we're returning the full team and we're gonna do better and all that stuff. But I thought we were gonna have a hard time on offense just because Devontae wasn't there anymore.
00:21:38
Speaker
We were going to maybe return Bach, who knew, maybe return Jenkins, who knew. So I really thought that the offense was going to struggle while the defense was dominating. Well, boy, was I wrong on that shit.
00:21:58
Speaker
So, I mean, the pieces are there. I don't know if it's a simple, and I've been seeing it now week in, week out, fire berry, fire berry. I don't know if it's as simple as getting a new defensive coordinator in there to fix it.
00:22:14
Speaker
It's not going to hurt. It never is. But it's not going to hurt it. I mean, I could see them cutting ties with him. But I could also see them keeping him, just because he's the LaFleur guy. And we know how the Packers like to hang on to guys longer than they probably should have, petting and capers and guys like that. And I know a lot of people are saying they don't want to in-house hire either.
00:22:43
Speaker
But I wouldn't be opposed to letting Jerry Gray get some time as a DC. I mean, he's got experience at it. He's been pretty solid as the cornerback or, you know, as a DB coach. I mean, yeah, the safeties haven't been great this year, but, you know, he's pretty much the corners have been pretty solid up until, you know, Stokes regressing on his second year. But
00:23:08
Speaker
And I don't think it's gonna, this is another one I'm gonna make a prediction. I don't think it's gonna be a Jim Leonard hire. I know a lot of Badger fans are really riding the Jim Leonard train, but I think he had his chance and he turned it down. And I think the Packers are gonna look elsewhere if they do fire Barry. So the offense has been surprisingly better than what I thought it was gonna be, which is scary to think that it's not even been that great.
00:23:37
Speaker
Uh, but, and I know nickel is going to talk an hour about Christian Watson. So, uh, so though, cause when you look at, I mean, and there are stats numbers, a bunch of stuff, the dusty Evely's and Ross ugloms and all those really smart people of the world, of course, there are things to, yeah, there are things to, to back that up to the Packers offenses so much better when Watson's able to play. And now that.
00:24:04
Speaker
it's not even just as a decoy, but as a, like, what do Rogers say last week is a high level game breaking player. And like, that's something that, I mean, seriously, Devontae is the best receiver I've ever seen play in Green Bay. And when's the last time you think Green Bay has had a player
00:24:22
Speaker
like any time he touches the ball you're like he might score like Devontae wasn't Devontae was awesome he wasn't that and that's not to say Watson will even end up well I feel pretty confident saying Christian Watson won't end up better than Devontae Adams because that's a very very high bar
00:24:37
Speaker
to clear it good for him if he does. But this offense is so much better with Watson, not just on the field, but now making the play. And he's still going to have a struggles. He's a rookie. So we're going to ride that wave for a little while. But it is nice to see because especially you want to talk about a guy who didn't get a fair shake at the beginning of the year, just from sheer dumb luck, bad luck, frankly, gets injured, misses camp.
00:25:02
Speaker
first play of his career. The entire world is watching. It's America's game of the week. He drops a walk-in touchdown. And then he's in and out of the lineup for the next month and a half with injuries. And I always say this. It's rare that you can see the exact turning point of maybe a player's career, certainly his season. But if you stop the game after the first quarter against Dallas, Watson has two drops in the first quarter.
00:25:28
Speaker
Maybe I'm being a little tough and grading one of them calling it a drop, but his hands were on and he should have caught it. Contestant catch. Contestant catch he didn't make. If you pause the game right there, you're thinking, man, like Watson's the only time we've asked him to do anything as a receiver, he's dropped the ball. Like not, not in a figurative sense, quite literally has dropped the ball. And then the rest of that Dallas game is history. Like the deep ball over his shoulder, bang, like complete turning point of
00:25:57
Speaker
his season and maybe his career, like that's where the Packers offense has changed. And ever since his emergence, I mean, Green Bay has started scoring a lot more, but they had one bad game against the Titans, which
00:26:11
Speaker
That was for a variety of reasons. But I think they've done much better since Watson's Emergence, 30 against Dallas, scored 28 last week against Chicago. They've played really good football. They scored 30 plus. And that Eagles defense is really good. So scoring 30 plus on that isn't exactly an easy accomplishment. And they found a way to do it even with their backup quarterback, which I'm sure we'll talk about as we get to here.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah. And by, by pure points per game, since Watson's emergence of the Cowboys game, they've actually been fourth in the league points per game. So yeah, they're doing absolutely fantastic. And obviously it's quite difficult to extrapolate that to a full season, but I mean, it's, it's what you want to see. You couldn't really ask for more. And you know, your comment about, you know, him being as good as Davante, the, the, the, the beauty of that is that he doesn't need to be as good as Davante because this, the, the pure,
00:27:04
Speaker
The raw ability and this nature of him being on the field just adds so much to the offense. It's everything that you wanted to see out of him.
00:27:12
Speaker
Sterling Sharp. Yes, the last time about a receiver that you knew was going to score when he got the ball in his hands. I had to sit here and think. I was right. Didn't you see the smoke coming out of my ears on that one? I really had to think on it. And I would have to. But that could be. Thanks a lot there. I already have all the gray in my beard. I might as well be playing Santa Claus. But I.
00:27:42
Speaker
I'd hate to say it because they're two different body types. But yeah, Sterling Sharp would probably be the last guy that you could make a case for that was the last guy that we had that played similar to Christian Watson. And I will admit, and I've admitted it several times on here, that when the Packers drafted him, I had question marks on him, like everybody else, because there wasn't a lot to him at North Dakota State.
00:28:09
Speaker
You know, they didn't ask him to run a sophisticated route tree. He wasn't called upon to make these plays. He was the gadget guy and he had a lot of raw talent. But the one thing that I kept saying is if he could learn the route tree and become, you know, get polished with his routes.
00:28:30
Speaker
He could be the next, you know, top five receiver in the league. So I'm happy. I can't wait to see him and Dobbs back out on the field together. Yeah, I think it was. I can't I can't remember if this was Andy Herman or Peter Bukowski, but one of those top dogs, as far as Packers podcasting goes, said once that if every receiver in this draft class, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, you name your guy, if every single one of them hits their ceiling,
00:28:57
Speaker
Watson's the best one. And now that doesn't mean they're certainly not all going to hit their ceiling. And Watson may not even hit his ceiling. But I do think you've got to feel much better about it now than you did six weeks ago about the shape of Green Bay's receiving core. Not just even now, but moving forward, I've made the case of, say they want to run this thing back with Aaron Rodgers. If you bring in a veteran who's useful, which
00:29:23
Speaker
Sammy Watkins was not this year. Do you find somebody that's useful pair him with Watson and Dobbs and let's roll?
Draft and Contract Considerations
00:29:31
Speaker
Like, I mean, there's certainly a way for this offense to not just be good, but like really good next year. Um, I'm not necessarily banking on that, but there is a way, there is a way. And that's kudos to nine because you know, the player, the player is always the one who
00:29:49
Speaker
It takes a long time to reverse that. Because what do we talk about for the first, by we, I mean, I'm using collective we on Twitter. And I know that's not real life. But like, what do we talk about for the first three months of the season? Oh, man, that could have been George Pickens. Well, Christian Watson's better than George Pickens right now. Now, maybe that will change throughout the course of the career. But Christian Watson's a better player. And again, maybe that'll change. We've got a long way to go. But I will advise, and I beg of the people listening to this show, just please remember,
00:30:16
Speaker
that a player's rookie season is not indicative of their entire career. And sometimes even a couple games in their rookie season is not indicative of their, like Devontae Adams, we rode the wave with Devontae, had a couple games his rookie year, New England, Dallas, and the playoffs, but he had some other games where he was two targets, zero catches, one drop, like nothing special.
00:30:37
Speaker
But the progression is the history of Packer receivers, though. They have a rough first couple of years and then they just they click. I think that there could be receivers in general, maybe less so now with the the presence of like seven on seven football and the passing offense is becoming more sophisticated in college and stuff like that. But, you know, in general, like what was it? I think coming into the year, the leading receiver in terms of catches in yards was MBS because of under with Aaron Rodgers.
00:31:06
Speaker
And that was basically because of necessity. Like there were games where MBS was the de facto number one wide receiver by the end of that season because Devontae was hurt, Cobb and Jordy were out, et cetera, et cetera. But I mean, I'm excited to see their development regardless of who's throwing them the rock, which is going to be a very interesting. I thought we were done with this for a while, but apparently maybe not.
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah, and that could be a whole other episode too on just talking about what Rogers is going to do next year. So yeah.
00:31:39
Speaker
Well, I mean, look, so we've already kind of like started to dip our toe into this, but let's, let's talk about what we want to do. What would we would like to see from this team in the off season? I mean, we've talked about, you know, the shape of the offense next season and kind of hinted at what might happen at DC, but something I want us to kind of look at with the roster, right? I mean, we were all aware that 2020 was the all in year, right? Like that was the year.
00:32:04
Speaker
2021 was like an extension, like, you know, that kind of stretching of the window, all in resources, blah, blah, blah. We all know Ken Ingalls breaks down the Packers cap. For the next season, 2023, this was kind of three years ago was supposed to be kind of the end of this window. And in a lot of ways it is, but we're feeling the repercussions still of 2020 in 2023.
00:32:30
Speaker
You know, Ken Ingalls has written down here, we're already 2 million over the cap for next year. By the time that we draft people and kind of fill out the roster, we're going to be 30 million over the cap. And that's before we sign any free agents or anything. So what I want to ask you guys, long answer, is how do you see the Packers dealing with this situation and kind of setting up the team in the way that they traditionally have going in 23?
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that starts with the quarterback situation. That's the biggest question that needs to be answered. Are they going to redo that contract? Are they going to redo Rogers' contract? Are they going to pick up Jordan Love's fifth year option, which doesn't apply to the 2023 salary cap, but it all kind of ties together?
00:33:17
Speaker
What are the, and then you go in from there, like if 12 is here, then yeah, you want to figure out a way to get Aaron Jones back in here. Cause you're trying to win the super bowl in 2023. You want to keep David Bakhtiari on the team. You want to resign Elton Jenkins to that contract. You want to tender Yosh Niman and run back that top five. And you might want to do that part anyways, but
00:33:38
Speaker
There's, you know, yeah. So let's be realistic. I mean, if, if Jordan love is the starting quarterback next season, the expectation is not going to be to win the Superbowl. That's not fair to him. That's not fair to the team. And the roster will look likely drastically different. You know, this is where Russ ball earns his money. As we've seen the last couple of years, I think the way that they're going to go is kind of the way they've done the last couple of years, touch contracts, move some money around as much as they can do some stuff like that. But I do think.
00:34:07
Speaker
that it's more likely that Green Bay is going to lose more players than what they'll be able to add. You know, you look at free agency this past year, Jerron Reed was their biggest free signing of significance. They brought back Resul. They brought back Dre. They were able to re-sign Preston Smith. But in the process,
00:34:24
Speaker
lost to Monte Adams too. So that was a really big, big piece that they were, they signed Sammy Watkins too. You know, so they've got, they were able to do some bargain hunting and free agency. What you're kind of hoping is if they can do that again, that they just kind of have better luck with some of those signings. Sammy Watkins was a, was a zero. Reed wasn't, I don't think has been quite what they thought he was going to be. And frankly, do you get,
00:34:48
Speaker
some better production in the draft and from the players from pretty like Eric Stokes needs to play better next season. No question. Absolutely. Yeah. Wyatt and Devontae Wyatt and Kway Walker both need to and Kway has shown a lot more than Devontae just because of sheer opportunity.
00:35:03
Speaker
That's a guy, quite Walker specifically that needs to play better next season. Um, and they need some help. You know, I know that when we get into the draft and everything like that, everybody's going to be saying the same stuff that we've said for basically since the day Aaron Rogers asked to be traded receiver, receiver, receiver, receiver, receiver. Well, I don't know how you watch this team and think that's their biggest need.
00:35:27
Speaker
But I mean, just because that doesn't necessarily need to be the way that they draft somebody. But yeah, as far as what to do with the offseason.
00:35:35
Speaker
some of those questions might get answered here in the next three, four weeks. Because if they make a magic carpet ride run to the playoffs and win the Super Bowl, then the answer to your question is, I don't really care, because they won the Super Bowl. But since that's probably not going to happen, then, yeah, there's a lot of question marks. Because this is a team that was supposed to, like, they've pushed their chips to the center. They have mortgaged the future. Gudukhan's just talked about,
00:35:58
Speaker
some long-term pain for some potential short-term gain. Absolutely. And that time is eventually, like, you can manipulate the cap, certainly. But at some point, it comes time to pay the piper. And that time is coming for the Packers. And that's the biggest question. Like I said at the top here, that starts with the quarterback. So whoever that's going to be, whatever that's going to be, that's where it all starts and, frankly, even ends to some degree, too. Yeah.
00:36:25
Speaker
The running joke we have on this show is that I think the minute Rogers retires, the Packers will draft a receiver in the first round. I hope they do. That would be hilarious. But yeah, the thing that I got to say is they must have a plan in place somewhere because they kept saying that they offered Devontae the same contract that the Raiders gave him.
00:36:56
Speaker
They did. So if they offered him that, then they must have room in there that they know that they can move around because that had been hard to fit his contract in with what he got. So they have a plan in place somewhere. But yeah, there's a lot of money that's gotta be moved.
00:37:13
Speaker
And well, it's something to keep in mind, too, is remember the NFL is going to get a new TV deal, right? And I was just going to raise that salary cap. So I don't know when that'll take place. But the cap number like Ken's numbers and Ken's as good as it is, you can possibly be for something like this. You know, Ken's numbers are based on a projection. That number is not set just yet. That number probably won't change drastically. But I do think that TV deal is something that's going to kind of help
00:37:40
Speaker
green base salary cap situation. They'll still have to do some like, you know, there are guys that this happens every year though. Guys are going to get cut. Guys aren't going to come back, you know, whatever it is that, that happens and they've got some.
00:37:51
Speaker
Relatively, you know Elton Jenkins, Allen Lazard. Those are both pretty useful players. They're free agents, you know, those are guys one of them I don't think I've been saying all along that I think that they're gonna pass on Jenkins and I know a lot of people disagree with me on it, but My reasoning is is I just think that with his aid not that he's old you know, he's not old but by standards the Packers have set on themselves with their draft picks and
00:38:17
Speaker
He was an older draft pick than what they normally get. And I just think that I could see him pricing himself out of Green Bay. Now, it's not saying I want him out of Green Bay. I'm just saying that I think that he could probably price himself out.
00:38:34
Speaker
So yeah, it's going to be interesting. Now the question I'm going to put forth to you guys, do you see maybe Aaron Jones doing what AJ Hawk did there towards the end of Hawk's career where the Packers cut him but immediately like resigned him for a better, you know, a better team deal? Or do you think that
00:38:55
Speaker
I'm going to put three options. Do they cut him like they did AJ Hawk and bring him back on a cheap deal? Do they just cut him and cut ties with him? Or do they restructure his contract? Because let's face it, he's been pretty much the face of this offense for the last couple of years. Yeah. Some of that, I think, has to do with Aaron Rodgers, what his decision is. Like I mentioned, if he's back, then you're trying to win a championship next year.
00:39:21
Speaker
if he's not, you know, Aaron Jones, his number is, is very high. I think it's around $20 million that he's owed next season. So that's a lot of money, especially for a guy who, I mean, Aaron Jones isn't old. I'm not ready to take him out back and old yeller. He's, he's aging as a running back. There is.
00:39:44
Speaker
Some signs of decline. And let's face it, he's not the biggest running back either. So there is going to be a little bit more wear and tear with him. And he's had health issues during his career. That's kind of why I won the packet one. I know he's like the team's best playmaker. I understand all that. But there's a reason the team limits his touches because it limits his exposure because he's such a small guy. You can't take that just pounding after pounding. On the other side of the coin,
00:40:14
Speaker
The Packers don't have anybody to potentially replace him. I mean, AJ Dillon is on the roster. He's a good player, not the type of player to replace Aaron Jones anyways. The offense would kind of fundamentally change with AJ as the primary running back. Take that back. There is a guy, and they just got to give him a chance. He's sitting on the practice squad. That's my boy. That's Tyler Goodson. Right. Yeah, well, yeah, OK. Patrick Taylor is on the roster.
00:40:44
Speaker
They don't have a back that's overly explosive, I don't think, to make that. And then you're talking about adding another
00:40:53
Speaker
I don't want to, you know, running back in today's day and age, although the Packers have made it a priority, you know, they gave Aaron Jones a second contract and drafted AJ Dylan in the same season, same calendar year. So that's something that happened. You know, I, as far as what they do, I would, I would guess he's around in 20, just cause I think Rogers is going to be the quarterback in 2023. So I would guess he's around to try and find a way to make that work. And, and ultimately like,
00:41:20
Speaker
I think we get so as fans, especially now. And there's so much information and everything. And it's all good. But we get so wrapped up in like, oh, man, what's I going to do the salary cap? Like, I would rather root for Aaron Jones and not worry about that. Like, sure. They have guys that are paid to do that. So let them do that. Just kind of looking it over the cap for Aaron Jones's number.
00:41:44
Speaker
For the 2023 season, if the Packers were to cut him, he's owed just a little over $20 million. But the dead money would be $9.5 million, and the cap savings would be about $10.5 million. Whereas if you waited until 2024, the dead money would be about $5.5 million, and the cap savings would be about $10.5 million. So about the same savings, the dead money gets cut in half. Yeah, I don't know.
00:42:13
Speaker
I think that in a perfect world, you'd like Jones back for them to draft a back on late day two, early day three, groom him for a year, and then go the following year, it'll be AJ Dillon and whatever guy that they draft, plus whoever the third running back is on the roster.
Building Strong Lines for Success
00:42:32
Speaker
Sure. That's whoever insert whatever guy there. The Packers need an influx of explosive players. And that was one of the unfortunate parts about Kyle and Hill's injury and then subsequent release was that was another. They don't have players on offense that are explosive. Christian Watson, Aaron Jones.
00:42:52
Speaker
And that's about it. Romeo Dobbs is a little bit in there, but not really. Kabi's still got some every now and again. The tight end position, I think we all run faster than them collectively. I don't know, man. I've got two bad knees and a bad back. I don't know if I'm outpacing anybody. Robert Tonyan's got a bad knee and a bad back. No, I'm joking, obviously. But I might be able to take a big dog, or maybe even Bach.
00:43:23
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. I, you know, I don't, I don't know. Um, but I do know that, like I said, the, the team, they need more players on offense that can, I'm not saying every player on your offense has to go, but think about like how good some of them chief's offenses have been. You know, they had Tyree, but they also had Michael Hardman was like a role player. MBS is kind of a role player for them right now, but just how many guys they could just flip the ball to and watch them run.
00:43:48
Speaker
kind of thing. And as Eric Rogers begins to age, that makes things, or even the touchdown pass that everyone's raved about for Jordan love against the Eagles, there's an 11 yard throw. There's a nice throw. Great play. It looks comfortable and everything, but it's Watson catching the ball and doing the rest. Like how many guys like that? Does Green Bay have to make off? Look at the 49ers. That's a great example. George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, like Brock Purdy can throw the ball two yards every play.
00:44:15
Speaker
And they could potentially score on any of them, just because of the ability that they have on some of that stuff. So that's an influx Green Bay needs. And it's unfortunate because if they do cut Aaron Jones, they go from two explosive players on offense to one. Yeah. Yeah. I had to say it, but like Green Bay is definitely the kind of team, especially with this, this Clay Walker pick that was so confusing.
00:44:37
Speaker
is the kind of team that wouldn't surprise me at all if they drafted someone like Bijon Robinson in the first round. It would be so frustrating, but it would be such like a packers move that you just feel like. He'd be so sick. And I know that like running backs first rounds, blah, blah, blah. He would be so good at now for his offense. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's like the worst part is it would be so like beautiful to watch, but like the discourse of running back in round one in the top 15 would just be like,
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah. He better be like, I don't even want to say like Saquon cause Saquon hasn't been worth that. But like, think like rookie contract Zeke. That's, that's somebody who's theoretically worth that first contract, but it's not worth the second contract because Zeke hasn't been worth the second contract he got. Yeah. I think, no, I think, you know, with this, you know, I don't know if you guys have like looked exactly into specific prospects or anything for this draft, but.
00:45:34
Speaker
I mean, why, where do you guys like want to kind of aim these resources that we have in, in a year where we are kind of picking higher, we theoretically have more to work with. I mean, is there any, is there like a specific area you guys kind of really want to focus on in this season? If you were the GM hypothetically tied in. Thank God. I'm not the GM first.
00:45:57
Speaker
Whoever you guys pray to, thank them. I'm not your GM. Tight end is one. I wouldn't do that early. Early, I kind of like the way the Packers do things. And last year, notwithstanding, in the early rounds, I'm a big believer that the game's won on the line of scrimmage. The reason I like the Eagles as much as I do this year as a team is because I think on both sides of the ball, offense and defensive line, they are the best team in the NFL on the line of scrimmage.
00:46:25
Speaker
And in this day and age of fantasy football and betting and more casual observers, which is a really good thing to have. It's good for the NFL. I mean, it's good for things like this, too, obviously. But I think that gets lost in the shuffle that that ultimately matters a lot more than the shiny objects standing. I've never seen a quarterback complete a pass on his back is kind of the way that I look.
00:46:50
Speaker
at football in general. So I think it's a big man's game. So when you talk about needs the Packers have, everybody's going to mock Michael Mayer from Notre Dame to the Packers in the first round or Quentin Johnson or Jordan Addison or name your receiver tight end pass catching type of prospect.
00:47:09
Speaker
Pass rusher. I think the Packers have a need there. Sean, Gary out Preston Smith is maybe he'll be here. Maybe he won't. Like that feels like a year to year kind of thing. Kingsley, any bar has had a nice year, but he's a fifth round rookie with limited athletic potential. And I think he's probably better as a rotational edge rusher, which is a good thing. But I'm also like a guy who, if I'm building a team,
00:47:34
Speaker
Again, not to continue to point to the Eagles, but the Eagles can literally go on one series, Josh Sweat and Hassan Redick, and then the next series go Brandon Graham and Robert Quinn on their edges. They are legitimately too deep on every spot on the defensive line. That's how they won the Super Bowl in 2017. Exactly, yeah. That's, I think, to have that kind of Packers defensive line. That's another spot. Kenny Clark is there. They drafted Devontae Wyatt. So he'll go shop at the rest of those guys.
00:48:03
Speaker
Maybe Slayton's good. I don't know. Dean Lowry, Rockford, Illinois, shout out. But he's probably at the end of his road here in Green Bay. Or maybe he's not. I don't know. But he's another guy who probably should be a backup. They need starting caliber players. And it's going to be frustrating, because I know fans have talked about how they've spent so many resources on the defense. And it still sucks. It's like, well, I understand that. But it still sucks.
00:48:27
Speaker
So that doesn't mean you quit spending. Exactly. So granted, some of this stuff will change, you know, Clay Walker, better your second year, maybe Devontae Wyatt better your second year. Hopefully health for Rashawn Gary for a full season. Kenny Clark playing better for a full season, but
00:48:44
Speaker
offensive defensive line. Um, and even, like I said, even the offensive line, because there's some question marks there, David box, Yari, how long is that going to hold on? That feels like a week to week thing. Yosh Niman's good, not great. Certainly not somebody that you don't look to upgrade from. Um, same's true of almost well, not Jenkins, but the other two guys on the interior.
00:49:04
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily draft a guard or a center in the first round, especially in the top 15. But I don't think Josh Meyers has shown anything to say like, yep, rock solid. That's our guy for the future. John Runyon's rock solid, if not spectacular. So it's a big man's game. So whoever.
00:49:20
Speaker
you know, and just for example, that I can give you guys the year, the last time before this time when the Packers had two firsts, when they had the year they took Gary and Savage, like they signed Z they signed Preston and then they drafted Gary. And I'm still trying to figure out a way for them to get Montes sweat or one of those guys kind of like that. I just think that that is a constant rotation that's needed, especially
00:49:44
Speaker
as this league continues to go towards throwing the football, you've got to have guys that can hit the quarterback or affect when his brand good con star says affecting the passer, like can't have too many of those guys. And right now green Bay has, do they have any right now? I mean, any bar, maybe Preston kind of like, I just don't have a lot of guys. And like, I think that that is something that
00:50:07
Speaker
fans and the Packers quite frankly have taken too long. And I remember it took them way too long to get somebody across from Clay Matthews. It didn't work until then they got Julius Peppers and then Clay ended up moving inside because they had Julius Peppers. Yeah.
00:50:22
Speaker
And so he was able to do that, but that Kenny Clark is taking them forever to find guys next to him. Um, I just would like to see them value that more and stop settling for what I've deemed like good enough. Like, like they both said, Oh, we're good enough on the defensive line. Like, that'll be great. Like that should be the goal. Build a like, look at the teams that beat the Packers into play a 49ers bucks teams like that. Great.
00:50:47
Speaker
Defensive lines, great pass rushers. The best teams in the NFL this year, Eagles, Bills, great defensive lines, great pass rushers. That is how you build a great defense. It's from the front back. And the same is true on offense. It's from the front out. So if you're talking about how to use your resources, build the trenches, man, both sides of the ball. And that's the best way to do it, I think. Bring in legacy Peter Skaronsky.
00:51:13
Speaker
That could be something. Sure. I think that, I think, you know, it's, it's December 13th, the draft isn't until April, whatever it is. So, I mean, there's a lot of time between now. I'm not saying don't pick small guys in the first round. Like if the best player available is Quentin Johnston, then yeah, take Quentin Johnston. This Packers team can't, they're not good enough. Like in what year was that? The year they drafted Eric Stokes. That year was like,
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah. So that year they were good enough to where you could say like, okay, pick a player at a, because they needed a corner. So it was like, okay, pick a player at a position of need. They need to do that because the starter is Kevin King. Well, you need to upgrade from Kevin King. If you can try and upgrade from Kevin King, this Packers team, is it good enough to do that?
Draft Strategy and Player Developments
00:51:59
Speaker
Like they don't have a thing where it's like, Hey, if we just add.
00:52:03
Speaker
Brian Breeze from Clemson, we're set. That's not the case. Green Bay needs help. And I've mentioned both spots on the line of scrimmage. Their linebackers are in good shape. Their corners, I think, are in good shape. Their safety position could use a makeover so they could use a pitch for a certain.
00:52:19
Speaker
So I think it sounds boring, but like take the best available player. And maybe that means Michael Mayer, maybe that means a receiver, maybe that means something like that. But yeah, take the best available player when that time comes. Cause like I said, this is a Packers team that they're five and eight. I think they go
00:52:37
Speaker
potentially one and three down the stretch, that means what, six and 11? It's a bad football team. They're not good enough to say like, oh, just get this and we're good. Like last year it felt like in the draft, we were like, pick 22, pick 28, okay. Find one of them top stud receivers, use the other pick to grab, you know, a pass rusher and let's ride. Well, they didn't do that obviously. And even if they had, like if I redo the draft and they end up with,
00:53:02
Speaker
Chris Olave and George Carlafdis, like, do you really think the Packers are better with those two guys? They might be better, but are they a championship contender with those two guys instead of Walker and Wyatt? Probably not. The one thing that they need to do is just get rid of all their third round picks.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah, so my standing policy, and I have tweeted this and you guys can check it out. My standing policy on third round picks is they are either, number one, traded to move up in the first or second round. Number two, traded for veteran players at the trade deadline. Or number three, if you have kept the pick and exhausted every option for options one and two, just pick a running back. Pick your backs in the third round because it's so hard
00:53:45
Speaker
to bust at that position. So they could just take a guy there. The Packers had find a way, man. That third round is just. Probably. So my suggestion is the knee injury will let him drop to day two, the third round. And there you go. Plug in Blake Quorum. So since you're doing your Iowa stuff, I can plug a Heisman Trophy candidate.
00:54:07
Speaker
There you go. Plug them in there. Grab a running back there. And that's the only running back other than B. John Robinson. And I know it's available for this upcoming year. But yeah, dump your third rounders as much as you can. And I can't stress that enough because I don't know. I thought Sean Ryan was going to be awesome and potentially start. And not only did he not start, he was a healthy scratch. And then apparently he was using performance enhancing drugs. But whatever he was using. They were helping him too, Miles. They were not working. No, sir.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. The guy that I'm surprised that we haven't heard about, but then again, they haven't really need him is the guy they took in the seventh round, Rashid Walker, because he looked like he could be a diamond in the rough. Legendary.
00:54:53
Speaker
There's a Twitter clip of him. I don't know if you guys have heard of him. Yeah, I have another one. Yeah. The guy with that set of stones on him, he's got to be playing at some point. Strong hips, strong ankle. So Noah, I mean, you pretty much said it all. It is an early look at the draft, and there's still a long ways out. And some guys will rise, some guys will fall.
00:55:22
Speaker
One guy that you kept mentioning that I've been seeing in some early mocks, is that Quentin Johnson? TCU, yeah. I looked at him on New Year's Eve too, so that'll be me. I got to read a little bit of some of these scouting reports they had on him and one of the things, and I'm pretty sure it's him, because I haven't really, like I told Nick when we were discussing topics for the off season, I don't usually start looking into players in the draft until after the season.
00:55:52
Speaker
just because that's when you start getting more of your film, your stuff, your film stuff put out there. But I did read a couple of scattering reports. And one of the things on the cons list was blocking. And I said, well, that automatically kicks him off because the floor always, you know, Packers always think highly of their wide receivers being blockers. They'd rather have them be blockers than pass catchers.
00:56:18
Speaker
And they'll need to replace one because I am of the belief Alan Lazard is gonna be a Chicago bear by this time next year So I could see that it's serious. I can see him being gone
00:56:30
Speaker
Unrestricted free agent. I know they wanted to pay him. The Bears wanted to try and pay him and get him in Chicago last year. That was part of the reason. And this has been reported. This isn't me sourcing, quote unquote, anything. Share your sources at some point. We need them. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't confuse me with at NFL rumors or at NFL sports talk or any of them other fake garbage websites that we have. But yeah, I know that they Chicago wanted him.
00:57:00
Speaker
And it just didn't work out. So I think this gets, if gets, he's still there. I guess if gets, he's not there, then that changes the outlook or it can change the outlook a little bit, which I don't know. I don't know if gets you'll get head coaching looks. He did in Denver. Um, we got the OC job in Chicago. Obviously the bears offense had like a month stretch where they did relatively well, but they also still suck. So maybe not, you know, I don't know. I'm getting a college head coaching gig.
00:57:29
Speaker
He had one before. I don't know if he was a head coach. I think he might have been nice. No, he was offensive coordinator at Mississippi State. Yeah, maybe he wants to do that. He strikes me from when I'm hearing him talk as a pro guy. But maybe not. A lot of guys could be that. A lot of people thought that about a lot of different coaches. And we've seen guys go back. So who knows? Yeah, or he'll just take the Denver job after they boot, hack it. That would be interesting.
00:57:54
Speaker
That whole process is going to, cause that's the thing is so black Monday is January 9th. Um, for those not familiar with the terminology, I assume you are, but that's the day that after the season's over, coaches get fired. I just don't know how many guys are going to get fired. I guess some of that depends on how the rest of the season plays out, but the action feels like an easy one. Lovey Smith feels like not an easy one, but one that
00:58:16
Speaker
not easy, but more likely than not.
Coaching Changes and Defensive Needs
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're one in whatever. So you go one in 11 and one or whatever. Then, you know, I don't know if the Packers go one and whatever next year, Matt, the floor gets fired. Like, that's just the way that it has to be. Something's not clicking if you do that. I don't know. Every year, there's always at least one surprise guy that gets fired. So, I mean, what was it last year? It was Brian Flores with Miami.
00:58:46
Speaker
or year before or whatever that was. Yeah, it was last year because I hired McDaniel. But yeah, they'll have, there will be somebody because somebody is going to fire their coach to chase Sean Payton. Yeah. You know, if Dallas is one and done in the playoffs and Dallas is a team to me that I think Dallas could win the Super Bowl and I think they could lose wildcard weekend and neither one of those things. So if that happens, does Jerry Jones fire Mike McCarthy and bring in Sean Payton? I know that's been widely
00:59:14
Speaker
speculated for almost whenever, since whenever Sean retired, quite frankly. Um, I think the place to watch for Peyton is Los Angeles, the chargers with Justin Herbert. So I think Peyton's going to try and hand pick his quarterback, which is smart on his part because I mean, head coach without a quarterback, not much changes. Yeah. I think the last thing I want to ask you guys before we just shift over to this Rams preview,
00:59:43
Speaker
Do you have any names that you're watching for this DC job if it does open next year? I'll go ahead and go first because I don't really have any names, but I've said for the longest time, I would love to see them bring in a college guy just to get some new blood in there, some fresh ideas, because you're seeing a lot of the college offense stuff getting put into
01:00:09
Speaker
the NFL, so it would be great to instead of having the old guard, you know, some retread, bring in a college guy that knows some of the schemes that these new offensive coaches are bringing from the college ranks.
01:00:27
Speaker
So I really don't have any names. I know the obvious one would be with Packers fans and Badgers fans is Jim Leonard. We kind of talked about this. I don't think Leonard's going to come in. I think he had a shot and the Packers are going to look elsewhere. Now I could be completely wrong on that too. But my thought process is that I would just love to see
01:00:52
Speaker
kind of like with the floor signing a head coach. He kind of came out of nowhere as the head coach because nobody was looking at that spot or looking at him for that spot. So my thought process is I would love to see them go against the grain and bring somebody in to bring that fresh blood in.
01:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, my, so my thing on coordinators is always like, you never know until you know. And I think they're the easiest scapegoats and fall guys. We talked kind of at the beginning, not everything that's happening on defense is Joe Berry's fault. That being said, when your defense under achieves the way that it has, somebody gets fired. I know there's some speculation that like maybe Green Bay won't do that. But I just, you're not going to make the playoffs. You were supposed to be a Superbowl contender, like,
01:01:45
Speaker
if all those things go wrong, somebody gets fired. Well, they're not firing the head coach. They're not firing the general manager. They just gave those guys extensions. Probably you can't replace all the players. So the easiest thing to do is replace the coach. You know, it might take a similar to yours. I don't know if it's a college guy necessarily, but somebody that's the, who's the next guy. You know what I mean? Find the, cause Joe Barry was a veteran hire. Mike Patton was a veteran holdover. Jim Leonard would have been a new guy to the NFL.
01:02:15
Speaker
as a, as a full-time coordinator. Um, each hero of arrow was another guy that would have been a new guy to the NFL. Had they hired him instead of Barry, I just think find one of those guys, find a guy from solid staff, find a guy from D'Amico Ryan's staff. And that was something the 49ers did a good job with was solid left. They promoted D'Amico Ryan's and their defense is better. Um, some of that is due to
01:02:39
Speaker
They have very good personnel over there. And when you talk about build, that was another team. I didn't even mention them earlier, but I mean, starting with Nick Bosa and kind of working across that front with Eric arms that they were, they traded to forest Buckner, one of the best defensive lineman in the NFL. And I'm not going to say they haven't missed a beat, but they're still really good.
01:02:57
Speaker
So that's some of that's personnel related, but D'Amico Ryan's was a relatively seamless transition and they've been better. Find that next guy, you know, whoever that is, or dummy proof it and throw a bunch of money at Vic Fangio and see if he'll come over with his like other guy because he's an older guy. So you're going to want somebody ready for that transition. But yeah, I don't know the answer.
01:03:23
Speaker
You know, I think schematically people are worried a little too much about like, Oh, Jim Leonard's a patent guy. So do we really want him or Oh, this guy's like all these guys come off the same trees. Every defense has its pros and cons. The Packers just need to find a way to play better. I do think that one thing not to get overly like
01:03:40
Speaker
meatball football guy, but something I think that they could use is somebody to come in here on, on defense that brings a bit of a, an attitude with him. Um, yeah, something to say like, and I'm not saying you got to play, you know, I know the common theory is like, just play press man and everything will be fixed on defense. I don't think that's true. But if you are.
01:04:04
Speaker
stop kind of with this mindset of off. We just hold them to 24 points. Aaron will win the game for us or Jordan if he's the quarterback. Exactly. No, like this, the guy, the guy that they bring on a defense has to be like a find the guy with the same attitude as buddy Ryan. Um,
01:04:22
Speaker
or something to, to that effect. I'm not saying bring Rex Ryan out of retirement or anything like that either, but find somebody like that. That's going to instill this culture of we are the best unit on this team. Kind of similar to what the culture was at Zadaria Smith brought when he came over from Baltimore to come to green Bay. And like, just this idea of like, I mean, the Packers defense was
01:04:48
Speaker
And they were this off season too. It just hasn't worked out on field, but they were loud. They were obnoxious. And they talked a lot of smack. And then they would back it up for the most part until they had to play San Francisco. So figure that out. Find somebody that's going to demand physicality, something that I very much appreciate about some of these teams. I always said the Packers are this year's Packers especially. I can't remember a team that was less physical than this team.
01:05:17
Speaker
the Packers have to put more, more priority on playing physical land. And frankly, I know it's kind of an outdated concept, but stopping the run, the Packers defense has been terrible against the run for years. And we've kind of brushed that off as like, Oh, well, does that really matter all that much? Yeah, it does. Cause you got to be able to have team in order to get to third and long, you got to be able to get to third and long. So you can't give up seven yards on first down on a run play. It can't be second. You've got to be able to stop third and long.
01:05:47
Speaker
which when they're healthy, they have the personnel to do that. And if they add a pass rusher, like that's how they're built. I understand that, but it can't be second and nine. And then a draw play makes it first and 10 or third and two, like the Packers just, they don't have and kudos to them. They were a little bit better last week. Well, not really, but I'm great. I'm grading them on a curve. I lied. I was going to say, remember who they were facing last week. Yeah. Well,
01:06:13
Speaker
OK, so there's that. So I think that whoever it is that they bring in, I'd like them to bring in that attitude of physicality, toughness, pull somebody from John Harbaugh's tree, pull somebody from Jim Harbaugh's tree, like just that group. We've got enough quota from Michigan. We don't need no more. I don't even mean necessarily that, but just like guys that
01:06:38
Speaker
I was just thinking, you mentioned the Eagles, you know, they've had a pretty solid defensive unit. Maybe try somebody from them. I don't know who their coordinators are or their coaches are for the defense. Yeah, Jonathan Gannon is their D coordinator. He'll probably get a head coaching gig, but there are other guys. I mean, that's never going to happen.
01:07:02
Speaker
I think kind of like you said, I think someone who's like, has like a proven track record. I think with Joey Barry, the whole thing was like, you can't lean on a quote unquote veteran guy who has like a complete dog crap record. Like that's not really like a reliable, you know, way to go into your season. I think someone like a Brian Flores, I think would be spectacular. Um, yeah, obviously like you said, Vic Fangio would be great. Whether or not Todd Bowles gets fired and is interested in stepping down for a bit.
01:07:31
Speaker
Once again, I think that would be a fantastic one-year solution. Finding the next guy, the young guy on defense, I think is very scary to an organization like the Packers. And I think Matt LaFleur, who is still himself, I think, quite unsure in some ways of his own place in the hierarchy of that building sometimes, I think
01:07:55
Speaker
he might, you know, it might be even hesitant like he was in the previous coaching cycle to hire a younger guy. But yeah, I mean, especially someone like Brian Flores would require more shuffling around with a personnel and that kind of thing. But I would love it. I mean, something I also find extremely funny is it's like, you kind of mentioned this before, it's like, people who are so like, Oh, you know, why does Ray Barry play so much soft defense? And, you know, why is it always like,
01:08:21
Speaker
but why do they always get away from the press man? And then they're like, yeah, let's get Jim Leonard in. Or like, yeah, let's get Vic Fangier in, because that'll fix everything. It's like, this game is not like the big separator between like these guys. Like it's like everyone, yeah, everyone in the NFL runs zone coverage the majority of the time. Like mathematically, that's how it works in the NFL. Here's a really good example too. Like, so when the Packers played the Bears and Justin Fields' long touchdown run, Green Bay had it schemed up. Green Bay had a scheme to stop it.
01:08:50
Speaker
Kishan Nixon whiffed on a tackle and like Kishan ended up having a great game good for him but Kishan Nixon whiffs on the tackle that's not a scheme thing that's not a Joe Barry thing that's a eventually like that's the other part where I say like it's not
01:09:03
Speaker
just on the coordinator, eventually at some point, this team's got a million first round picks and a boatload of money spent on that side of the ball. Some of those guys got to make some plays and they haven't made enough of those throughout the course of the year. And they're not going to now because they're playing like Rudy Ford's replacement level. I don't have to go through the entire defense, but that's where. Yeah. Just the point I'm making is you could I had a coach in high school. I say you could scheme it to death. Ultimately, the game's not played on the whiteboard. You got to play on the field and the Packers guys. That's another thing. Unfortunately,
01:09:32
Speaker
haven't made enough plays. What was the, not even that, the game against the Eagles, Jalen Hurts, schemed up against Quay Walker.
01:09:40
Speaker
And Jalen's going to do that to a lot of people. I know that, but that's how it's schemed up. Is it schemed up to where you have your guy on their guy? Theoretically, you should be able to stop that. It couldn't. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think, yeah, like you said, another example. Perfect. It's like Jair Alexander against Terry Maclaurin. One-on-one man coverage. He just loses. I mean, you know, it's just, yeah, you can't, you can't scheme your players to just win. You know, at some point there is the players responsibility to perform.
01:10:11
Speaker
And something that we've said over and over again is attitude. I mean, these guys look, that's why I've not had a problem so much with Jair's trash talk on the field. I know he's been doing it at some weird ass times and that, but.
01:10:26
Speaker
There seems to be like no life in this defense. There's no attitude. There's no get up and go. They just look like they're going through the motions for the most part. So got to bring somebody in, whether it's a veteran player, like Jacob said, a defensive coordinator.
01:10:45
Speaker
that will put some life back into this team and get them motivated again. So I don't know how much more we can say on it just because it seems like we have to keep repeating the same talking points on the defense weekend and week out. So, yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what they do. Yeah.
Rams vs. Packers Game Preview
01:11:07
Speaker
Yeah. So I think with that, that'd be discussion kind of, you know, tied off in a bow there. I think we should, you know, get into the last part of the show. Just talk about this Rams game quickly here. You know, the, the, the resurgence of Baker Mayfield in that kind of miraculous game where I think he was only in the building for what, like two days. And, you know, it comes back to when ended in the decisive two minute drill. Uh, you know, this Rams team is kind of like quite
01:11:37
Speaker
They're suffering from what you might call a Super Bowl hangover, right? Obviously Stafford being out for a lot of this season, that kind of thing, it doesn't really help. But I think they're kind of at the same level with the Packers. I think this could go either way. The way I see this game is, is this going to be kind of a good way to see how our young players kind of stack up against guys like Jalen Ramsey or an
01:12:06
Speaker
you know, this kind of, yeah, just like seeing the progress of these guys. I'm not really like too invested in the outcome per se, but you know, just kind of see how we perform and continue what we've been doing. Well, we definitely don't have Devontae to burn Jalen again. So, you know, maybe step up and be the next guy to start burning Jalen Ramsey. I've, I've always like not been like, I love Devontae, but I've always not been too sure. Like,
01:12:35
Speaker
If he was capable of like fully like beating J1 one-on-one consistently, I mean man, this game this past week was just like brutal. I mean, you know, you see like several come-ups of him in man coverage and he's just like not even in the same universe. It's just like, it was beautiful to watch actually. I'll be honest. I know he's a good corner, but I've never seen the top five hype out of him because it seems like they talk about him being a top five corner and then he gets burned by a receiver.
01:13:04
Speaker
No, Jalen is very, very good. And he has been extremely good by his. Yes. Yeah. He is the, in my opinion, maybe not this year, but coming into the year was the best secondary player in the NFL, the ability to play the boundary and the slot. That's not a common feature. Like Jair Alexander is one of maybe five players in league that can do that too. Jalen does some safety stuff for them, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, he has struggled against Devontae Adams, but the other thing about that, you know, we get, I think we get tied into.
01:13:34
Speaker
Everybody's got to be Dorell Rivas to be like a great corner. And one, Dorell Rivas is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Secondly, it's just, even when Rivas was in league, it is harder to play cornerback now than it was back then. And Jalen at his peak was a physical player, slot blitz. So you guys might remember his rookie season in Jacksonville. One of the best throws of Aaron Rodgers career. He's got Jalen Ramsey hanging all over him.
01:14:00
Speaker
That's something that I've always kind of admired about him, but I am interested That's one of those things you guys talked about the outcome whatever if they win I'm rooting for them to win sure if they don't win. That's fine, too But seeing like how does Christian Watson do against Jalen Ramsey? How does Romeo Dobbs he should be back? How does he do against Jalen Ramsey? Does Aaron Donald play because he hasn't are they able to block up?
01:14:24
Speaker
Um, him on the interior with guys like Myers and, and John Runyon, I know, uh, Elton has had some success against him in the past. Is he able to do that again? Uh, the ramp, it's just so tough. This is a hard game to hand because like the Raiders had no business losing that game on Thursday night and they still found a way to do it.
01:14:44
Speaker
God bless Josh McDaniels for not getting offered and not taking that Packers job. Cause that, I don't know if you guys remember that coaching search, but like he was supposedly the leader in the clubhouse, like off of the job. It was horrifying. Scary. Scary. That was my not bad scenario. I know nothing.
01:15:03
Speaker
I know nothing, but I know I didn't want Josh McDaniels. So I was all out on that 100%. And it's turned out that way in Las Vegas. He might be, I don't think they'll fire him, but I guess that could be like a surprise guy. But anyways, looking at how do the Packers match up? Because the Rams are kind of a skeleton group, but how do they match up with some of these guys that are out there that are still stars if they're able to play? Jaylen Ramsey certainly being one. Aaron Donald, if he's able to play,
01:15:30
Speaker
being the other one and you know what's I think Baker Mayfield is entertaining as as a lot of players in the NFL so obviously we saw him last year when he came into Lambeau on Christmas Day that didn't go so well for me through four picks I don't think he'll do that again this time around but you know the Packers
01:15:51
Speaker
Packers are favored by seven and a half, which seems like a really large number. But then when you look at it, it kind of makes like the Rams, Justice Musgata said last week, like this is a preseason roster. And it kind of is just based on injuries. And they haven't had like, they're missing. It feels like their entire offensive line, a bunch of guys on defense, their quarterback, Matthew Stafford's not going to play. Cooper cup is their best player on offense. He's not going to play. So how do they do it?
01:16:21
Speaker
He's washed anyways, but yeah, Alan Robinson's not comfortable. Like, how does Green Bay figure out, you know, do they just kind of figure out a way to win against another team that they should beat? Because they're not very good, essentially, is what I'm getting at. But yeah, how does that work with some of our unknown guys against some of their known quantities? I think that's a big thing to keep an eye on for Monday night.
01:16:50
Speaker
Can't say it any better than that. I mean, it's. Where's the game at? I can't remember. Is it at Lambo? Yeah, it's in Green Bay. All right. Sean McVay has never beaten Maliflor. Oh, I wish. Let's get it out. Right. You just jinxed it jinxed it. I don't. I've seen. Listen, I'm 31 years old. I've seen the Cubs, White Sox and Red Sox all win the Red Sox multiple times. The White Sox and the Cubs once I've seen them all win the World Series. Curses are not a real thing.
01:17:21
Speaker
Don't say that when a pitcher's throwing a no hitter in the seventh inning. Not real. But I mean, Jacob pretty much said all the main points on it. There's nothing really more to add to it. You know, Baker's going to be the interesting guy. Is he going to play like he, you know, that last drive and their win or is he going to go back to
01:17:51
Speaker
mediocre. I've never been huge on Baker. I thought he was probably the best quarterback the Browns have had in a long time. But that's not saying much because the bar was pretty low. He's better than the loser they sold their soul for. I can tell you that much. Absolutely.
01:18:13
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, he's gonna be the key. Is he gonna come in and be like, he was like Jacob mentioned in the Browns game last year, or is he gonna come out and just torch the Packers? I don't know, but.
Predictions and Game Strategies
01:18:31
Speaker
I mean, seeing our record with like backup and, you know, seemingly. Yeah, the cursed backups. Yeah, it's not being great.
01:18:41
Speaker
So with that, let's get into our guys for the game as you do every week. I mean, speaking of Baker, I think you should probably start with this one, Joe.
01:18:50
Speaker
My guy for the week is I want to I'm watching Baker Mayfield because you know like Nick said he was only in the building for two days before the Thursday night game and he wasn't horrible but now he's got another week in the system and you know again like Nick said the Packers seem to struggle against backup quarterbacks and he would be technically the backup quarterback for the Rams at the moment
01:19:19
Speaker
And so, yeah, that's who I'm going to watch just because it. It's going to be a 50 50. He's either going to do. You know, torch the hell out of the Packers or he's going to throw six interceptions in the game. Yeah, I don't think he'll throw six because we'll probably drop a couple.
01:19:45
Speaker
Um, my guy, I'm going with Romeo Dobbs. Uh, and I guess I put in the caveat on if he plays, um, I assume he will. They, I think the thought was he was close in Chicago. They just wanted to give him another like full, basically two weeks off after all of that. But this was a guy who, you know, you, if you go back to the beginning of the season, if I, again, we talk about pausing seasons and stuff like that.
01:20:06
Speaker
After that New England game where he dropped a touchdown, but he also had a big play on a back shoulder touchdown from Aaron Rodgers, like there was just a lot to like there from Dobbs. And again, he's a rookie. We're going to ride the wave with the rookie, just like we will with Christian Watson. But I'm just interested to see, I think those two have skill sets that just work so well with each other, Watson and Dobbs that is. So seeing now is,
01:20:31
Speaker
is Dobbs able to make plays in the intermediate parts of the field that, you know, guys like Sammy Watkins or even, you know, he's probably more dynamic at this point than Alan Lazard and his career just, and how do they do that split in general? Because now Dobbs is back. Watson has certainly emerged. You can't take him off the field. Lazard and Cobb are solid, reliable vets. How do they kind of do that? Sammy Watkins has essentially been faced out of the offense, which is fine by probably pretty much everybody.
01:21:00
Speaker
at this point, but I am curious to see just kind of how that split goes throughout the receiver snaps. You know, you can see the last couple of weeks, like Sammy walk, it's four snaps and seven snaps. The last two games Randall Cobb, they're kind of limiting his reps. That'll probably be the case for the most part. But, you know, I think that it's been basically Alan Zard and Christian Watson as your main getters and then a split between Cobb and, um,
01:21:28
Speaker
12 personnel stuff like that. So I'll be curious to see what they do on that But I'm looking forward to seeing him back in the field. It's been a while The game against Detroit where he got injured. It was the first play of the game They hit him on a dig route and it felt like a game where they had a lot planned for Romeo on that particular day and it just didn't work for You know the injury reasons, but I'm definitely looking at looking at him trying to see how that goes. I
01:21:52
Speaker
That's definitely a good pick. I really want to see what Dobbs and Christian Watson can do on the field together. And this will be one of the first major looks after the success that Watson's built up. So, you know, one of them is going to open up the game for the other one because the, you know, Jalen Ramsey may be a great corner, but he can't cover two guys at the same time.
01:22:15
Speaker
Although it is the Packers and they'd probably find a way to do it. One of the things I'm most interested to see is how these younger guys handle a really physical corner like Jalen Ramsey. One of the biggest questions about Christian Watson that we're still waiting on an answer for
01:22:37
Speaker
is how does he handle an aggressive press at the line? Like how, you know, with such a big frame, you know, he's theoretically a bigger target, how does he handle getting knocked out of the way, you know, his release? You know, how does he kind of handle that? And same with Romeo Dogs, you know, he's probably a bit of a tighter route runner and probably a bit of a better release package than Watson does. But same thing, I think it'd be really, really fun to kind of see how they match up against such an established veteran like Jalen. Who you got, Nick?
01:23:08
Speaker
So my guy is Devonty Wyatt. I think, you know, he's a guy that, you know, everyone is kind of like, oh, his PFF grades so high in the past couple of weeks, but he's only gotten like three snaps. I think in this week. But I'm a guy. He's taking 10 snaps guys. Like it's a really, like it's a, it's a irrelevant sample. Like his grade doesn't matter in 10 plays. Cause if he has one good one, that means he has a good grade. Yeah.
01:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, I'm it's the exact same thing with Amari Rogers, right? So you can't say that he's like, you know, it is fantastic player Who's just not being used correctly. Also, if he's the only getting like three opportunities in a game, you know It's like there's obviously a reason why this is happening, right? I think
01:23:54
Speaker
It'd be a nice opportunity for him to kind of, you know, go against a line that is not as tough as someone like Philly has been, right? Or even like Tennessee. Like, I think, uh, yeah, there's him, you know, maybe getting more chances to shine, hopefully getting more action, you know, at least like 10 snaps to kind of fill in some of these older guys. And, you know, maybe if.
01:24:16
Speaker
you know, God forbid, an injury and things of that nature. It's like to see like more of a definitive flash because, you know, he kind of has been doing well in his past couple of games. It's been nice to see, yeah, you know, a definitive sample size. I can go with it.
01:24:35
Speaker
I agree. I think why it is something like, I know I just rolled my eyes about PFF grades and stuff like that. Small samples. But like the third and five draw that led to the missed field goal a couple of weeks ago in Chicago, that was Wyatt who made that play. Like there are a few flashes you've seen. He had a sack of jail and hurts that he just missed on. There are enough flashes that make me wonder
01:24:56
Speaker
why he's not seeing the field more. And he was somebody I really liked in this class. So I hope to see more of him. So I'm definitely trying to keep an eye out for 95. He's definitely got some juice in the Packers. I thought when Gary got hurt, you would see more Wyatt because they need pass rush and they don't get a lot of that. But they haven't done that for whatever reason. So I'm with you. They just keep trotting Lowry out there. And yeah, he's definitely not going to get the pass rush.
01:25:21
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think I'm because like going into this draft, Wyatt was kind of my like fingers crossed draft crush. So I was like, you know, that is on the team. I was wanting to see him do like something more. So I'll be honest. I had him off my list because he had some off the field issues and I didn't think the package would take a chance on him. But so I didn't really watch him too much.
01:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, um, so yeah, let's let's kind of finish up here with joe's over and unders Yeah, we got to think about it here so he couldn't go take care of his kid Yeah He's going You know, i'm gonna keep it light-hearted with the over unders i've got a bunch of them down here and I know we try to keep them at three, uh but
01:26:12
Speaker
With the way the packer season's going, you got to keep some kind of humor in it. So I'm going to keep mine kind of lighthearted. I've been putting this one on here for every week, for the last three weeks. So I'm going to keep doing it until we can finally keep track of them. But over under one and a half Santas in the stadium. Over. Over. Like, there's a slam dunk. Over under one and a half shirtless people in the stadium.
01:26:40
Speaker
Well, that's definitely an over if they're at Green Bay. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, definitely over. I said it at one and a half just because I haven't been keeping track of it during the games when I've watched. But with it getting closer and closer to this Christmas, I definitely see a bunch of them.
01:27:01
Speaker
This one's not really lighthearted, but it's an easy one to answer because it's just a yes or no. Does Jordan love getting any snaps in this game? No. No. I think we're at the point where it's not happening anymore by an injury. I'm just going to say yes to go against the grain. I'm going to say we rolled up on the Rams and we get pretty high up.
01:27:29
Speaker
just torch him and Jordan Lovell get some snaps towards the end of the game and my last one now this one I laugh at because I it's the truth it seems like every time we play this guy but one and a half chokes by Aaron Donald under I don't I just don't know if he's gonna play so I'm cheating but I feel like I'll go I'm just just because I think we get one
01:27:59
Speaker
It always happens. Always does. It seems like every time the Packers play him, he's putting his hands around somebody's neck. Maybe I said it a little bit high, but I'll go over. I'm going to say over. Yeah. Yeah, sweet. So I guess that's
Conclusion and Social Media Plugs
01:28:21
Speaker
basically what we've had on the program today. Is there anything else you guys want to talk about before we finish up here?
01:28:28
Speaker
I'd just like to repeat that I really appreciate Jacob coming on and spending some time with us. And it's great to have another voice in there to talk Packers football with. Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me. The answer is always yes. If you guys reach out far enough in advance, so just like I said, the answer is always yes. Appreciate you guys having me on. This is a good show. I had fun doing it. So hopefully we're able to do it again.
01:28:56
Speaker
Hopefully next time we do this during the season, the team is better than the other guys. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to throw it out there like we do with every guest. If you decide at any point, you're like, hey, I want to jump back on with those guys. Just reach out and send us a DM. And we'll get you scheduled in there somewhere. I'm known to invite myself. No, I had to invite myself to a bunch of parties in high school because I didn't have any friends. So no, I appreciate that. Thank you.
01:29:25
Speaker
Um, yeah, sweet. So that's all we have today, guys. Thanks for listening. Once again, as always, you can find us on Twitter, the podcast at outback underscore Packers individually, of course, Jacob at Jacob Westendorf, me at Nicholas GRGR and Joe at Iowa underscore Joe in six until next time. See you later.