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The Deviancy of Detroit: Become Human || Quantic Dream Month
10 Plays13 minutes ago
Two content creators. One blackmailer. And an ultimatum so devious it'll shock you to your core. Join Satsu and BadGamesJules as they battle through four of David Cage's most popular games. Which ones have held up the best? And which ones were better forgetten? Let's find out!
In the finale of Quantic Dream Month, Satsu and Jules finally discuss the highly anticipated Detroit: Become Human. While definitely a fan favourite, why is it so beloved? Is Connor the best android there is? And WHAT in God's name did David Cage say this time?! All of this and more in this fantastic finale!
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Transcript
Meeting the Blackmailer in Detroit Town
00:00:01
Speaker
This is it. The final task. Can't believe we had to go all the way to Detroit Town, Glasgow. I thought you said you had a budget. The point is, we're gonna meet our blackmailer today.
The Final Game Challenge
00:00:11
Speaker
Let's just get this over with.
00:00:12
Speaker
Wait a minute. It can't be. Why does the blackmailer look like you? Because that's not the blackmailer, it's- My name is Bob. I was instructed by your blackmailer to deliver a message. And Sir David Cage, he congratulates you on your efforts so far. I don't get it. Why couldn't David Cage meet us himself? Because Chatsunami does not have
Gaming Sins and Quantic Dream Month
00:00:37
Speaker
the budget. Damn, he's good. There is one game left for you both to play. Failure to do so will cause me to tell everyone about your greatest gaming sins. You've got nothing on us! Well then, you won't mind if I tell the world that......de-bagging a......Yoshi thrown down a......360 no-scope. Well damn, when he put it like that, i guess we better finish Quantic Dream Month.
Quantic Dream Month Finale
00:01:07
Speaker
And then once we do, it's payback time.
00:01:10
Speaker
Negative. This is the last David Cage game so far. Once you review it, then this month will be over. Oh, well, good, I guess.
00:01:21
Speaker
Welcome to the finale of Quantic Dream Month.
00:01:26
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the finale Quantic Dream Month. My name's Satsunami and joining me today is none other than the Android, or it could be iPhone expert herself, it is Bad Games Jules. Jules, welcome back. Thank you for having me. I just came back from Detroit so I should be well aware of everything that's gonna happen. I am so sorry.
00:01:49
Speaker
Or not, I don't know, I've never been to Detroit.
Reflections on Quantic Dream Month
00:01:52
Speaker
Lovely place. There's androids everywhere. Nothing nothing else. just Just androids everywhere. Nothing bad happens in Detroit. What was that film about the cop that was a robot? Oh yeah, Judge Dredd.
00:02:04
Speaker
But yeah, other than your Detroit ventures, how are you doing tonight? Doing great. Still robot-less myself, but Bob has tried to come in several times. Yeah, we've had to barricade the door. You might hear some banging in the background. So if you do, that's Bob trying to get in through the window. But yeah, we're holding on our own here. I'm not gonna lie. It adds to the post-apocalyptic feel of this studio right now. And yeah, today we are very sadly and very poignantly saying goodbye to Quantic Dream Month, which, yeah, how does it feel, Jules, to be at the end of this month? Feels like we've been on a long, long journey, but we're at least ending on a somewhat positive note, so there's that. Oh, thank God, because last week was a doozy last week. To be quite frank. Because, yeah,
Impressions of 'Detroit: Become Human'
00:02:49
Speaker
after David Cage's rather lacklustre entry into his, i would say, quadrilogy, technically. mean, they're not related. It's four-game-a-thon, as it were. Gamography, would you say? I don't know. The four games they developed. This is of course the fourth one that Quantic Dreamer put out, produced and written and directed and starring, and I'm only kidding, he doesn't star in this game, that's a filthy lie. Today we're going to be talking about the fourth game, Detroit Become Human, which, after Beyond Two Souls, I had zero interest. this game but yeah what were your feelings when this game came out i was actually excited even though beyond two souls left a very bad taste in my mouth i was like you know what maybe david cage will bounce back and release another banger and you know what it was quite the good game i enjoyed it for the most part there's sections that i didn't like but for what it was i did enjoy it and i have played it more recently i think i played it last year as a replay and i still enjoyed
Transitioning to New Consoles
00:03:46
Speaker
it. At the time, I had a PlayStation 3, and then when I went on to the next generation, I went the Xbox route. Why? I don't know, so because xbox One was like one of the worst ones. in comparison do you remember this right this is completely off topic from detroit become human but you remember when the xbox one was revealed and it was like they said oh it's going to be the next water cooler game console and everything always online yep always online connect has to be bundled with it oh and then they backtrack so damn fast to me oh what gaming was at that time period oh man so i didn't have a playstation 4 at the time And funny enough, it wasn't until the lockdowns that I thought, you know what, maybe it's time to pick up a PlayStation, try saying that three times. Yeah, I decided why not, because I really wanted to play the new Spider-Man
Exploring New Games During Lockdown
00:04:37
Speaker
game. My very good friend, Martin McAllister, he, I'm assuming he still has his PlayStation, but when I went over to his house, he'd sometimes be playing certain games like that, the Fist of the North Star game. as well which is incredible by the way and a lot of others and i thought you know what i really want to try these games and sorry when i say i went over to his house i meant i went over to his house pre-covid i wasn't breaking the lockdowns but i saw these games i was like i want to try spider-man i want to try detroit as well because the more i looked into it the more i thought okay this is quite an interesting game yeah when i played through i was playing pleasantly surprised again maybe it's just a nostalgia goggles talking maybe wasn't as enraptured initially with it but it really grew on me and i thought well done david cage is relatively back there's no supernaturalness there's no elliot page or green goblin you know right it was a fun experience well
Discussing Game Economics in 2038 Detroit
00:05:31
Speaker
i say fun loosely there's like an asterisk beside that fun with conditions so the game as suggested by the title detroit become human sorry detroit colon become human he loves his colons honestly yeah so detroit become human is of course set in the lovely city of detroit in 2038 which is one of those years that when this came out in 2018 you're like oh that's years away right and now you're like oh my god no You know back to the future when it was like, oh, in 2015 we'll have hoverboards and self-lacing shoes? We didn't have that. Never got it, guys, I'm sorry. So depressing.
Character Introductions: Marcus, Connor, and Kara
00:06:13
Speaker
But anyway, yeah, so in the year 2038, everyone has their own personal Android, or as they call them nowadays, Tesla bots. It'll go, hopefully not. But yeah, they have their own Androids at the low price. I was really shocked at that. Some of them were as cheap as an iPhone. And I was like, hmm, something doesn't feel right about that pricing. Yeah, that's the most unrealistic expectation of this game is that the economy would actually be good. Yeah, it's like, oh, you can hire them or rent them or, you know, have a payment plan. I'm like, I'm so glad you're getting into the economics.
Connor's Action-Packed Storyline
00:06:46
Speaker
So everybody in the future has their personal android and, yeah, follows the lives three particular characters. You've got Marcus, who is a different type of android. He's basically the caretaker to an elderly artist called Carl. You've got Connor, who is a... How to describe him? He's basically like a hunter of androids that have gone rogue, also known as Deviants, which we'll get into later. His story's probably the most action-packed, and honestly, it's the most exciting and probably... I was gonna say, his is personally my favourite. Yeah, same. And then we've got Kara, who was named after the object that hit her, because she was hit by Kara. Have you never heard that joke? I was like, where is he
Kara's Evolving Storyline
00:07:27
Speaker
going with this? like, oh...
00:07:29
Speaker
I like to think got inspiration from Elliot Page's line delivery. ah What name? Car. ah We'll get to that. our serious faces on at some point that it is not this intro.
00:07:45
Speaker
But yeah, of course, follows these three characters and how their lives interlink with one another. It's a fascinating game though, isn't it? See, in a broad sense, before we deep dive into the story, how did you feel about the story when you first played it? Were you a fan of it initially, or...? Oh yes, I was massive fan of it. It felt like I was playing Heavy Rain again, but just a different sort of subject because Connor's intrigued me the most because it was the more investigative, action-packed storyline and that's just my alley. And I loved Connor and Hank's interactions with each other. It just kept me invested. But the downside of that necessarily is you made such a good section that the others just feel mediocre in comparison.
Character Critiques and Performances
00:08:29
Speaker
can say at the time was not a big fan of Kara's sections. I was just like, oh, this is like glorified babysitting. But as I replayed, was like, it's not as bad. I kind of started to dislike Marcus's sections more than Kara's as I replayed it. Just simply because the people around Marcus. was like, where are we around these people? You mean like North, who's your favorite character? Yes, but North mainly. Yeah, mainly talking about North.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, North, East, West, whatever direction you're looking at her in. She's very annoying. She's literally the character. She's like, hey, you want to see a magic trick market? And she pulls out a dirty bomb and is like, what the hell? Best romance in the game, too.
00:09:08
Speaker
Oh god, it is, isn't it? It's the only romance in the game, is it? Oh no, well, um yeah, I suppose with Luther and Kara, kind of. Yeah, I joke though, prefer the lesbians in the brothel more. yeah, I forgot about them. The lesbian in me has to remember them. But anyway, yeah, I... We'll get to it. We'll get to it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And when I replayed it last year, i still enjoyed it as much as I did back then. i know a lot of people think the whole game is mediocre, but I would say the Connor section just stands out as much as a reason
Actor Improvisations and Script Deviations
00:09:39
Speaker
to play it. And I mean, it helps as well that his actor Brian Dichardt is just so charismatic in the way that he produced. Oh, absolutely. Even as an android, because this is something that I don't think a lot of people understand when they're acting as robots and androids. It's not enough to be, you know, emotional. Let's just say, be boop, I am a robot. You have to move in a particular way. You have to speak in a particular way that's not too emotive, but at the same time is emotive enough for you to care about them. Right. Because it reminds me, I don't know if you've ever seen this, but there's a show called Humans, and it's exactly the same as Detroit. To be honest, I think you would like it probably, but everybody has their own personal robots, or androids as it were, that help and a lot of them are suddenly becoming sentient and questioning their existence.
00:10:27
Speaker
And it is, it's really fascinating. Ironically enough, I'm pretty sure that ends on a boat as well. LAUGHTER David? Maybe it's a warehouse, to be fair, but
Marcus's Revolutionary Journey
00:10:37
Speaker
still, I'm like, hmm. There was also, someone else brought this up, and I can't remember from the life of me the name of it, but there's also a TV show where it's like, one detective and his android partner, together will solve crimes. And you're like, hmm. This sounds awfully familiar. However, what Detroit Become Human has that no one else has Mr. Krabs. Exactly. Conjured me, boy! I loved that he was in this game. Hank was my second favorite character behind Connor. Oh, he's so good. Connor, what are you doing? Come on, Lieutenant. Lansi Brown and Brian DeChartney, they honestly steal the show, to be quite honest. And I have heard that, again, I wouldn't say ticked off, but I don't think David Cage was happy that they were improvising because apparently they were. They were just kind of riffing off of things and trying to add their own spin on it. And they were just the best part of the game, to be quite frank. And I totally agree with you with Marcus. I don't necessarily think he's bad. I think he's got good levels, but it's just, oh yeah, robot revolution.
Game's Narrative Complexity
00:11:39
Speaker
Here we go. Yeah, I feel like his story had the most potential going from being in this quote unquote comfortable life, just helping out an elderly artist to just being thrown into a scrappy. That level scared me the first time I played. I know in cyberpunk, a similar sort of thing happens, but the one in Detroit, oh man, that was giving horror game right there. And I think David Cage, go for it, dude, make that horror game. You clearly keep wanting to put horror elements in your games. And there's even like the other section later with Kara and Alice getting chased around. There was quite the horror sections in this game that I feel like David Cage could expand upon to make a whole horror game. But yeah, you have this whole great story that's in the works with Marcus of, oh, he's on his own. How is he going figure it out? And then I feel like it kind of mellows out. And then they try to bring you back in with the revolution angle. But oh man, North. Oh, North. We'll get her, don't you? We'll get to her. Yeah.
00:12:37
Speaker
And I think this was another 2,000 or even more page in script for Detroit. can imagine. Yeah. It's his baby. That's the thing. I think when he goes to paint a script, the i don't actually know. I think he had a co-writer in this one. Although I could be wrong, but that would explain a
Chloe's Role and Player Interaction
00:12:55
Speaker
lot now. A lot of the stuff has kind of rained on. But yeah, the story, it does have its peaks and it's not so peak. Let's just say it's deviants, let's say. But see, without any further ado, will we just rip off our LED lights on the side of our heads and pass for credible podcasters? Without any further ado, we'll be right back after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a Scottish variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime and general interests. Join me, your host, Satsunami, as well as the rest of our Chatsunami team for our takes on these very important pop culture topics. Sir, it's clearly a trap. I accept your fate! That happens three times in the film. Every time that general goes, don't do this one thing, he goes, du do you know what I'm gonna do? It's the exact thing.
00:13:44
Speaker
He does it well. She had the pointy teeth. What was that about? She looked like Bilbo when he wants the ring back. she tend them I just want the lightsaber one more time. Parasite says, no, you will get back into your office and work. No, says the man in Zoom. yeah Trousers are for the working man. You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go.
00:14:08
Speaker
Leave the kids. We can milk an audition. Oh.
00:14:15
Speaker
That's the worst thing you've ever said on any of the episodes. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out at our website, chatsunami.com, as well as all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:14:31
Speaker
Stay classy and have a banana. This has been chatsunami. I'm sorry.
00:14:42
Speaker
First impressions can take only six seconds to make, but if you're neurodivergent, those quick judgments about you can be misleading. Because of most people's ignorance around learning disabilities, people think it means you're intellectually incapable. i'm not Rain Man. Every autistic person is a Rain Man. I thought I was talking to people who understood dyslexia and ADHD, but they did not. They freaked out and were like, well, if you've got Tourette's, if it's going be a problem, then we can just fire you and get someone else.
00:15:12
Speaker
I'm Carolyn Keel, and I host Beyond Six Seconds, a podcast where neurodivergent people share their lives and advocacy. One of my goals is making autism not something that's scary.
00:15:24
Speaker
I really want to help people understand dyspraxia a little bit better. Get the real life of Tourette syndrome out there. Stop thinking we were nothing but a joke. Let's shatter misconceptions and celebrate neurodiversity together.
00:15:37
Speaker
Listen at beyondsixseconds.net or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back. Don't rip things out the side of your head. It hurts a lot more than you think. Yeah. How? Owie. Ouch, my tender head. Elliot Page taught me that one.
00:15:56
Speaker
Who do you want to start with first? We've got three characters. We can dive right in. In fact, sorry, did before we dive in, and don't worry, I won't let you choose a character. Can I just say how amazing the soundtrack and the visuals for this game are? Oh, they're incredible. I have zero complaints about any of that. You're super immersed into the game right off the bat. Because that's what I was shocked at. And I think it's because the last game I played was Beyond Two Souls. for david cage so it's like i remember at the time thinking wow heavy rain looks so realistic and now looking back it's like yeah it still looks good but there's some elements that don't look as great yeah whereas replaying beyond and i'm like how did i ever think this looks realistic it's very it's very janky at times there's some good bits but it's like overall you're like yeah i don't know
00:16:44
Speaker
oh But this though, honestly, you could recommend this game to anybody and go, yes, play this game. It looks great. It sounds great. The voice acting's wonderful in it. Honestly, it's a fantastic looking game. So props to the developers and the artist team as well. But then again, there was one character that David Cage wanted to add in. And I think it was one of the characters from the nightclub, let's just say. An android from the booby bar, let's just say. Yeah. And yeah, he got told no, didn't he?
00:17:14
Speaker
David Cage doesn't like to be told no. no None, none. You'll have to stop a lighting character that goes, ah, shut up, Bob. Fermi in a bush. I think that would have killed the game, to be quite frank. Yeah. I have been saving this particular part of David Cage for this episode. I just want to touch on this briefly, that if you haven't guessed by now, he's not exactly the nicest of people. No.
00:17:35
Speaker
I mean, between these problematic tropes and games and apparently his alleged toxic culture and the Quantic Dream company, he got taken to court over this, to which, and I do laugh at this just purely for the mental image of David Cage or running out crying as he yelled But apparently he ran out yelling, you middle in my business, this touches my honour. And I'm reading the translated version of this, you can read to the full French online. But said that's what he yelled before leaving the court, fleeing the plea of defence lawyers. It is so obvious that it was difficult for him to talk about honour when a list of remarks that he would have said in public was mentioned. So he said, and I quote, anyway in and my games all women are whos and the open space there is a lack of tets or at quantic dreams we don't make games for f slu Yeah, that's ah that's a hard one to get over and try to ignore. Yeah. i have to say something i did find quite interesting that obviously considering he said that and everything from what i've read there is a lot of people in the lgbt community that have gravitated towards this game as well and have seen it as again like a great game and there's a lot of messages in the game and things so it's kind of weird how it has been turned into more of a positive message compared the frankenstein creator as Yeah, was gonna say there's a lot of disconnect there as someone that's a lesbian seeing the two lesbian androids trying to run away together. Meanwhile, you got him saying slurs. It's like, how did this in theory them running away? They can choose them not to run it and have them get caught. But like just having the option of letting them run away and be happy together. It's like this was made by the guy that doesn't like the LGBT community. Who took the script from him for a second? But then again, they do run away in their pants. Keep in mind. Yeah, yeah. You take what you can get, I suppose, of representation sometimes. But I was going to say, i know when this game was popular, the cosplay community really gravitated towards this game. The amount of Connor cosplays I saw at the cons I would go to which are a lot of LGBT spaces. So yeah, I would say definitely the LGBT community loves this game in particular compared to all of David's other games. I'm just thinking. There's nothing anti-LGBT about the other games, but it's like, I can understand why they would gravitate towards this one, because I'd be very confused if they were like, yeah, Heavy Rain, am I right here? Man, Indigo Prophecy, what a but what a lovely game. yeah
00:20:03
Speaker
Duck Soup cosplay, everyone. Seriously, if you do a Duck Soup cosplay, tag us. Please, I'd love to know. Sorry, that weird tangent I said. Yeah, that's the thing about this game. The community for it is just absolutely incredible. And again, it's mainly Connor-centric, let's face it, because although there is fan art of the other characters, I don't think I've really seen the people say, oh, I love Kara, I think she's great, blah, blah, blah. Because, I mean, no offence to the actress, I think it's Valerie Currie who plays her. Yes. does an incredible job but I mean compared to her or compared to Marcus and again as I said it doesn't help that Brian Deschart also has his own Twitch channel so yeah ironically enough is his wife not one of the androids <unk>s from that club I think she is if I remember correctly when there was like all this trivia coming out from the game it's just really sweet I'm not gonna lie because I think I don't know if it's one of these stories where it's like oh they met in the set or whatever but I think that is actually quite cool that you know he's still doing content creation and things like that it's like Yeah, well done. Although I have to say i got a jump scare when I was on Netflix the other day and I found this film where it was, don't even know what it was, i think because I'd watched Wreck before it, you know, the Spanish horror film where it's basically all in and the perspective of whoever's holding the camera at the time. Yeah. So there was another one that was recommended and it was about, oh, there was this wedding going on and then all of a sudden the rapture happens. or something so they all have to run away and you know i was like all right that looks like i think the terrible tv hallmarky film you know and then i was like oh my god is that connor and it was and i'm like okay what are you doing connor what the hell you doing ain't enough ain't enough anyway that side tangent aside yeah flipping back to you who do you want to talk about first i think a nob i just want to check hmm
00:21:53
Speaker
should talk about connor first oh and Honestly, I can't blame you. He is by far the best part of this game. And I do love the development of him. Also, actually, fun fact, I don't know if i've ever told you this, but with my friend Adam, I started a walkthrough of Detroit Become Human, or rather a playthrough, and I was playing it through on the computer, but my version kept freezing, so... We made up this joke where it was like we thought that David Cage was intentionally messing with our game. So this photoshopped version of David Cage, this bodybuilder's body being like, shut it down now. So every time a game goes wrong, my friends and I are just like, shut it down.
00:22:34
Speaker
i think there's a GameCube game or a PS2 game that purposefully messes with your memory card and with your screen. So I know there's a game like that, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched for that to actually happen. I don't remember what it's called, but there is a game like that where- Was it a heavy if your sanity- Oh, are you talking about, is it Eternal Darkness? It might be that, where, yeah, if your sanity gets too low, like, it starts to mess with your memory card or screen goes black or something. cool but very frustrating. Yeah. You've got a Smash Bros. 7. That's my thought process. i was like, oh, maybe I should play it. I was like, do I want to be frustrated? That and it's like 60 pounds or something probably. Thank you, capitalism. Very cool. But yeah, no, Connor definitely the strongest part of this game. Fahrenheit is a perfect way to begin the game because it's not like Heavy Rain where it's a bit slow and boring or it's not like Beyond where it's just utterly confusing. It's perfect because you're put immediately into this hostage situation. You're told you're running against the clock. You have to decide the best way forward whether or not you're going to gather intel on the person or you're just going to run straight out and be like, my name is Connor. If an android is like, hmm. I'm the android sent by Cyberlife. Oh, God, I love that so much. Yeah, it's just s a fantastic opening though, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. It puts you right into the action of the situation. it's like, oh, there's a hostage situation, but you want to find out information to defuse it. It's so much high tension and stress, but not the kind where you want to stop playing it, but it's like, oh man, I want to get everything I can to quickly defuse this. And then when you get out there... i felt so so, every time I replay it and I think I have it down, I'm second guessing myself like, oh, should I have said that instead than what I actually said? It is a fantastic start to a game because you're gripped in immediately as to what the game is about. For anyone who doesn't know, the android that you've been sent to take down essentially has gone rogue. He's killed his owners and now he's taken the little girl of the house hostage. And you know David Cage, he's not above killing a digital child in his games. See Heavy Day and Fahrenheit as well.
00:24:43
Speaker
Well, I mean, if you leave the child and don't do CPR on them, I mean, whoopsie doodle. You know he's going to go through. but but of course, you can decide to be as cold as you want or as empathetic. And throughout the game, you have this software instability meter. So if you do more human based actions, then you'll become more quote unquote deviant, which is this stage of an Android where their memory gets, I wouldn't say corrupted, but something changes and snaps within them where they go, oh, this isn't right why am I working for you and it's like oh dear this is like the geth all over again from Mass Effect it's like oh there's going to be an uprising but yeah if you decide to be more human as it were becoming human Detroit becoming something I can't remember it was too long a title that I fell asleep after the cool one make myself off. I mean, after that, really, you get put into a buddy cop situation, don't you? with As you said, is it Lieutenant? Yes. Wake up, Lieutenant. Wake up, Lieutenant. justlan And yeah, you just get this, basically, this buddy cop dynamic, don't you? Where he's like an alcoholic, kind of washed up detective, but he's still employed, so he's not that drunk versus this android who just wants the job finished but they butt heads and everything and they've got such a good chemistry together don't they yes it's honestly my favorite part of the game is their whole dynamic and it slightly turns into connor being spoilers i suppose spoilers ahead yes Because you later learn about Hank's family situation and Connor kind of fills that role that Hank was lacking for so long. And it's such a sweet dynamic. And depending on how you play it, you just get that feel good ending. least I did. I was tried my hardest. was like, no, if there's anything I need to happen in this game, it's that Hank and Connor need to be father and son. Well, you're not wrong. to be fair i'm the same i'm one of these people that i feel so bad if i'm mean to someone in a game unless they deserve it and it's like right i mean i've watched the playthroughs and it's like i've seen what can happen and i don't want it because i'm like hank deserves to be happy and it is it's just such a poignant storyline because and again spoilers because you find out later on that hank had a young boy who unfortunately died because when he went to go into surgery, an android operated on him and initially put all his blame on the android who operated, but eventually comes to terms with it and says, oh, it's not because of the android, it's because the surgeon that was supposed to be on duty that night was high on drugs, also known as red face, as you think. later on but so he was too high to do the operation so it fell to the android who failed and everything and it is tragic because i mean if i've learned anything from heavy rain it's losing your child's and not a good feeling you end up in a depressed dad shack no I don't know there. So it is poignant and it does really hit you in the feels when you realise that this is what he's going through. Because you think he is just a stereotypical grumpy cop and everything. And he is to a degree, but also he's got a hell of a dog called Sumo. Yes, I love the dog Sumo. There was an amazing clip I saw online of someone playing through it. And there's a scene at the end where Hank has to ask you questions to see if you're the real corner. And he's like, what's my dog's name? And the player was like, oh, Sumo. I know. And then he says, my son's name. What's my son's name? And the person goes, oh, f***.
00:28:16
Speaker
And was like, same you did same. I'd be like, yeah, Sumo. Yeah, my best pal. What about my son? Who? i want to say Joe. Your son is also sumo. Trick question. You're fur baby. Yeah, exactly. Throughout his story, he learns to either become more human. Ha ha. Whoa. My brain is blown. I can't believe it. or he decides, you know, to be a deviant hunter, which is exactly what he was made for. He was made to hunt these androids who were going nuts, as were, according to him. So yeah, what are your favorite parts, though, of it? Other than their relationship, what makes it so special for you? I think it's the slow development of it. Like it's not just Hank immediately takes to liking Connor. I think where it starts for me is when you're chasing the bad guy on the roof. Yeah. And Connor's being reckless, but Hank is like, stop it. So I like the different choices of if you are reckless and Connor can die multiple times because he'll just come back. But if you keep having your Connor die, it affects Hank negatively. So you're trying your hardest to like keep this one Connor alive. So Hank grows that attachment to him. Like I said, like a son. yeah, that section on the roof where you're chasing things and you do let the bad guy go, but you have Connor live. Even though, like I said, you can die and just keep coming back because he's just an android. But that's like the first moment for Hank of starting to care about him. I do like the section where Hank is drunk in his house and you have to look at first it's kind of goofy. You break through the window and then you're petting the dog and then you just throw him into the shower. I really like that emotional moment of like, hey, we're in this together no matter what. But the most stressful section, like you mentioned, is trying to find the real Connor. Oh man, I always feel like I mess that one up every time, but somehow I'd still get through it. Yeah, their evolving relationship is truly the best. because what i love as well is and granted I criticised this last week with Beyond with the damn novel section but it has a lot of very much although it's action packed it has a lot of in-between levels which I really like where it allows the relationship to foster and you get to see the development in real time so like one of my favourite personally is see when they're at the burger van and it's like I don't mean to alarm you lieutenant but I think that's a shady guy over there and he's just like yeah I know
00:30:34
Speaker
but That's why I bet with him. again, Connor doesn't really know the nuances of this type of relationship between himself and his new partner. And even when he's talking to Amanda, who's his mind handler, that's where literally she lives inside of his code. And yeah, basically says, oh, so how's the investigation going? And he's like...
00:30:56
Speaker
going And you know, he expresses doubts about Hank and everything and says, oh, I don't know about him, but they really flourish together. They couldn't be more opposite if they tried, but yeah at the same time, it's like what they both needed, as you said. Hank is missing that son figure. think he calls him his son at one point. i think Yeah, I think he does. Yeah, which hit me like a bullet train. I was like, oh, he's done. And at the end, when they hug, I'm like, oh, they did it in front of the burger van. Go place a bet, Hank. Oh, God. It's so well done. And it's so emotional. Even with the David Cage sleaziness when they go to the Android strip club, I do have Again, i don't like the part where you have to go through it, but i like how they did it. And see being with Hank and Connor, it makes it less awkward. Oh, for sure. Because you have this goofy android who's just like buying all these sex androids to get information to help with their case. And then Hank is just like, how much money are you spending on these androids? So like in a serious situation, I feel like even they just lighten the gravity of it because of their dynamic. And as I said, there are many points where you can die in it. And if you are overly robotic, ironically enough, if you are too much of a robot, then Hank will either try to kill you or he'll end up killing them himself, which is just so tragic. Because there's a scene where you go in dressed in your beanie you're... clothes and you're like, found the deviants. And he's drinking himself into a stupor. And what's horrible is when you leave, you hear the gunshot, but then you hear Sumo howling that up. And I was like, no.
00:32:33
Speaker
but No, you can't upset so yeah i or go and i do love how they bring a sense of grittiness into this. world and how their perspective really shs up in the way that androids are portrayed and this society because I feel as if it could have been so easy to be like oh yeah let's investigate as a joke and let's say oh a booby bar or something or oh let's investigate someone who just got stabbed a hundred times and everything but you actually get to learn more about why these androids are basically defecting and everything and even learned there's this whole religious ideology behind the RA9 which again we'll probably touch on when mark as part of the story but yeah this religious figure that was the quote-unquote first android to be truly f free and everything and i mean it's interesting and it's also quite depressing in a way when you do go into that bar because you think all right okay this is david cage being david cage but then you realize why they suddenly freaked out because it's a horrible thing for them to feel as if they're obviously being used and abused and whatnot and for once i've good to give whoever wrote that part credit they did a good job of evoking that sense of poignancy right i think with detroit there's so many different sections of the game that just have you feeling such empathy i'm not saying that you can't feel empathy in the other games but this one makes i feel like i felt the most empathetic towards because as much as we're trying to tell oh these are robots trying to become human it's like i still empathize with them in their struggles and stuff Then again, they do go kind of the opposite way with other characters' stories, like especially Kara, which, again, we'll get to Kara's story later. Yeah, there's one particular scene. I'll put the series on for that. But going back to Connor's story, it's just such a cool idea, isn't it? It's like, oh, he's a washed-out detective.
00:34:32
Speaker
He's an android. Together they'll solve mysteries. Yeah, they could have just been the whole game, honestly. Uh-huh. I thought this as well. Honestly, see if it was just a game of those two. Would play it day one. Yeah, I was kind of surprised that they didn't make more sections of them because I feel like Connor is definitely the consensus fan favorite amongst everyone that's played this game. Well, Andy's a poster child as well. Because what's funny is, if you look at the covers, and granted, I think I got the Marcus cover, because I accidentally, I'm sure I got it off of eBay or something, or maybe it was Amazon, but i got a copy from, I think, Germany. Bye! accident i don't know how but i was like oh god i hope this works but the covers of marcus's face and it's like i think initially they probably thought oh yeah you've got a marcus one you've got a cara one which i thought cara would be the poster child but no it's definitely connor isn't it Yeah, maybe they thought because like I know the actor that plays Marcus was on Grey's Anatomy because my sisters would watch that show. So when I saw that he was in this game, i was like, oh, it's the guy from Grey's Anatomy. That's crazy. So maybe they were banking on that fame, but I don't know the crossover audience between Grey's Anatomy fans and Detroit Become Human. I was going to say, what does a vein diagram look like for that?
00:35:47
Speaker
Time to pull up fan fictions again to see. There's probably more because a lot of people loved Connor, though. 71? Oh my god. There are 30,708 for Detroit Become Human. So none of us the same length as the script then. Gotcha. Connor by far has the most 20,000. Wow. yeah Well, that is a lead one, if I ever saw it. Because, yeah, you've got Connors. And what's also interesting is, i don't know if you've seen the promotional material for this, like especially the reveal trailer. But for the reveal trailer, they heavily pushed Kara as the main character. which yeah it's really interesting because if you even look back to heavy rain and the bonuses they've got a tech demo thing where it's like a short about a robot called cara literally the shorts called cara and it's this robot getting built up and everything and then they threaten to deactivate her and she screams that she doesn't want to die and then they're like oh what
00:36:46
Speaker
Excuse you, you're a robot, you're a Roomba. It's like, no, I'm a human. So they build her back up again. And that was really interesting because as I said in the Heavy Rain episode, I remember watching that and thinking, wow, this is really lifelike. It was really interesting, but we never got that until about, what, about eight years later? Yeah. And technically, I think it would have been earlier for the trailer. But as far as I remember, I don't think there was a Connor or a Marcus... At least not yet, they didn't reveal it. But I was really interested to see that Cara was the focus. And i have seen David a Cage do that before with female leads, but I do love it. It's like, ah, this is my new princess. My magnum opus. Cara, oh, look at her. And then everyone's like, yeah, I see what you're saying, but look at this lovely man over here in Connor. This beautiful man. No, no. No, no, not very good.
00:37:36
Speaker
I was going to say the funny thing about, I guess it's not funny, but the ironic thing about Cara probably seeming like the front runner and how David Cage thought she was going to be the favorite is she's the only one that can die and you can completely, like at the very beginning, and you can completely skip her route on your second playthrough. Oh yeah. That was very interesting to me. I was like, oh, you can just completely not play her route. Meanwhile, with the other two, you have to. Speedrunners in shambles right now. When I played the game for the second time, out of curiosity, I let that happen. And the game is so much shorter. It's crazy. I mean, technically, I think you can die as Marcus in the protest scene, but that's really about it. The other one that I love, honestly find this hilarious, is if you do such a bad job with Jericho, they tell you to go away. And that is hilarious to me, that's even an option in the game. And then it's like, you walk away and you see the helicopters fly overhead, and it's like, you can decide whether to go back and mourn them, or just be a petty bitch and walk away. And it's like, I love that, that is so funny. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you're completely right. Connor's the only quote-unquote immortal one. It's like he's the only one that will continuously come back, but if he keeps coming back, then he becomes more of a robot, so he doesn't learn and everything. And again, I don't want to upset Hank, too.
00:38:54
Speaker
on this. There's even a really tense scene where, i mean, other than the 28 stab wounds scene, or sorry, not 28 stab wounds, 28 stab wounds! Which, that was tense. I died the first time I played that on stream, and I was like, no, I'm not good at this game. But the second time I played it, I was like, yeah, no, fortunately I managed to get him to calm down. But between that and there's a scene where Hank gets drunk, think it's after the strip club scene, and he pulls a gun on you, and he's like, are you a human? Aye aye, Captain. I can't hear you. I'm like, oh my God. But yeah, that is quite a tense scene, isn't it? Yeah, as much as I love Connor and Hank's dynamic, like they have so many tense, like stressful moments too. Like when Connor's running into... No, it's not Connor that runs the traffic, is it? Is it? Kara is the one that runs into traffic. Well, both all of them. yeah Oh yeah, they do. You're right.
00:39:45
Speaker
I know there's running into traffic. But this is ridiculous because technically you can choose not to as Connor and that's what I did in my second playthrough. Because the first one, I stole the money from the shop and I went into the motel to stay. But the second time I wanted to see what happened when you stayed in the house and then you get the crazy guy, Ralph, and was like, oh, that's good. I don't know if you've been in the house, but it's like he cooks you up a dead possum. Yes, yes. He gets really offended if you don't eat it. It's like, huh.
00:40:14
Speaker
like a good thing i don't have an appetite that was tense as well he's holding the big cleaver like what do you mean you don't want to eat a little girl is oh god i mean there is the end but we will probably discuss that as like a kind of collective after jericho falls i don't think so who you want to go into next we can go into cara as we've talked about her a little bit so marcus no i'm joking Yeah, Kara is a little tad more controversial, I would say. And ironically enough, not for the reasons you would think in this game. Right. Yeah, because as far as I remember anyway, I don't think she's overly sexualized in this game, which, again, surprising to you. Right, for a David Cage game, it's like, what, huh? I mean, obviously you've got that strip club, but even in the strip club, it's like equal rights, because you've got male androids, female androids. Yeah, I'm choosing to believe David Cage just blacked out when someone else took the pen. I want her loads of these women in their underwear. And then he passes out and someone goes, and men.
00:41:17
Speaker
like, there we go. Sneak that past the QA tester. Kara's interesting because as much as I joke there, her whole thing begins that she's been repaired and she gets given back to her owner who, ironically enough, is the same actor who played the sleazy degenerate in Beyond Two Souls that assaults Jodie in that level. But then they went, yeah, you're a good actor. Do you want to come back and be a sleazy? Sleazy father? Sleazy father? It's like, do that again. And again, I don't know if it's just David Cage doesn't like that type of person. You know, it's like, well, did he work in an IT job as well or something? Ah, Fahrenheit reference. But, you know, he's just a kind of stereotypical deadbeat dad and basically a single dad because his daughter lives with him and the wife walked out because of his, well, let's face it, his behaviour. Which we can't blame. Yeah, I can't blame. Good for them. He's lost his job due to Android, so it's kind of weird that he would buy an Android to... Anyway... Even though got no money and he complains about his job, he lost to Android. So the job market is good for drunk detectives, but for anyone else, oh, the job market is terrible. Yeah, just smoke your crack pipe. Sorry, your red ice pipe. Wasn't like the unemployment rate at like 15% or something in the game? I remember it was like a high number and I was like, that is so bad. It's like in a newspaper somewhere. I swear it's like 15 or like 27%. Yeah, it's really bizarre. There's a subplot as well, isn't there? See if you read the articles and things, and it's like Russia's trying to invade. don't know if it's like Iceland or Greenland or the North Pole or something. Yeah. Or is Antarctica? That's it. It's like Antarctica, they're trying to invade. It's like, why? And this is like a whole thing. If you keep reading the articles, it's like, oh, by the way, Russia have invaded the US. I'm like, don't you do that. I'm going to do it. Don't you do that. And then it's like, oh, by the way, the military androids have now shut down or... They've gone crazy and I'm like, oh, that's a big one. I wonder what's going on with that. It's like time to explain. Let's go back to Sumo. There's one about, I'm curious with this one if they knew about the meme of, oh, by 2025, more people be having sex with androids than humans. That was like made in like 2015, like that prediction. Because there's like a magazine that claims that android sex is better. So I wonder if David Cage saw that meme and was like, ah, yes, it actually happened. A true visionary. Thank God that didn't come true. At least I don't know. I don't know what Tesla are cooking up right now. But yeah, for Kara, again, it's David Cage saying, we have a female character. We have trauma. I have an idea.
00:43:54
Speaker
It's like, oh no. And you get quite possibly one of the most controversial scenes of this game. That, of course, being the storyline of domestic abuse with Todd beating his daughter, Alice, who You constantly talk to her and she just comes across as quite timid. And when you're cleaning up her room, you see these pictures probably drawn by David Cage. i'm not going to lie, but they're drawn in crayon and it's like, oh, look, our happy family. You see her completely destroyed and it's implied that obviously it's been Todd that basically beat her to death. or destruction, whatever you want to look at it, and is, of course, beating his child. So what ends up happening is there's a particularly graphic scene where he threatens to beat her up. And it was in a lot of the news outlets at the time, wasn't it? Just this scene, you're told and not to move and everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's very uncomfortable. And I know that's David Cage's whole thing. He's like, oh, i want to push the boundary of storytelling and things. On the one hand, I get what you're going for, but on the other hand, it's like, it's quite uncomfortable. Again, it's uncomfortable, but I don't think it's done in a tasteful way. And there's a lot of people that actually didn't move in that situation, which then led to the game over screen and the fact that you've literally just killed a child within the first, well, hour to few hours of the game. And again, it's uncomfortable because you can either run away with Alice or you get caught and then that's game over for Kara. Or if you end up unlocking the drawer where i think he's got the gun in it, then Alice will shoot her own dad. Which again, is horrific as well. So right other than the happy end, I suppose, most of it is just trauma based, isn't it? Yeah, their whole journey of escaping is just filled with so many challenging... I would say the other controversial scene is at the very end of their route if you get caught and stuff and comparing it to a historical event. Oh yeah. That one also made me extremely uncomfortable. This is something I semi-joked with you about in the sense that David Cage is not really subtle about the message he's pushing on this. Yeah. The message is racism bad. Everybody should love one or another. no one should be hating. i get that message. That is a very good message to be promoting there. But he does it in the most unsubtle of ways. It's honestly like he is beating you in the face with a baseball bat going, do you get it now? Do you get it now? Yeah. Because, I mean, literally at the beginning when you play as Marcus, you have to go on the bus back home. And of course, at the back of the bus, you've got android compartment, which of course very much links to the treatment of black Americans and things. That's the thing as well. It's like, did he just read a book about Rosa Parks and go, I have an idea? Yeah, it's like he looked at world history of discrimination and was like, whoa, this is bad. i should make a game about it. Again, and going back to that particular scene you were talking about there, if you get caught and put in this particular camp, they strip you down to your android self, you don't have your human skin, and they basically put them in an incinerator. Yeah. And again, that's i don't know if he could escape but i think you can Yeah.
00:47:26
Speaker
a cage okay Yeah, it's insane that he thought that, oh, let me hammer this home that discrimination is bad. And it's like, yeah, we know that. I don't think we need a whole incinerator camp section, especially with that whole section. You just feel helpless. And it's like, I get it. I don't need this. it's so long, too. So it's just all uncomfortable. And mind you, Alice, you do find out that Alice is not a human child. Right. Whoa, that's the big reveal is that Alice is not a human child. She's an android child that Todd got. Oh, so she's not the become human. oh She's the become android. they become i
00:48:06
Speaker
But yeah, so you're seeing a child being incinerated. and It's like, David Cage, I don't think we needed this, truthfully. And I don't like that concept either that there's an industry where they're pumping out android children. You know, it's like, why? I get the reasons of like, oh, maybe a couple can't have a child, but it's like, you can still go through adoption agencies. The nefarious reasons for not a human child just pop into my head and I'm like, and I don't like that implication. No, exactly. And na again, I just, I don't think it's a good quote unquote twist. I don't think it's a good twist. Yeah, I remember when that twist happened. I was like, what?
00:48:45
Speaker
was more confused than like shocked. I was like, huh? And that's how my story ended like Of everything that goes on in the game, you're like, okay.
00:48:55
Speaker
Okay. what Like, am I supposed to be bamboozled that i cared for? oh you cared for an android child instead of a human one. Okay. I mean, that is a low blow because it's like, oh, she looks like a child. She acts like a child. She's annoying like a child. yeah yeah She's very annoyed. Kara, that's stealing. That's bad.
00:49:15
Speaker
It's like, you know what? I'm sick of you, Alice. Oh, that really annoys me. The particular scene where you have to get in the bus and it's like a family with a baby drop their ticket and it's like, oh, sucks for them. I'm taking this. But Kara, that's stealing. It's not stealing. It's lawful acquiring. Let's just get on to Canada, we go. I find that just so annoying when it's like, Cara, you have to be good. And it's like, listen, do you want to sleep in a nice motel or do you want to sleep in a shithole? Because I'm going to be honest, going to complain either way. And again, I'm not a father as I've recorded this episode, so it's probably the experience of having a child be like, wait a minute, that's illegal. Murder is illegal.
00:49:57
Speaker
ah Yes, I know. Also, the implications of Zlarko. Oh, that whole section. Ooh, I hated that. I hated it, but i thought, see the art direction especially. i mean, it gave Spencer Mansion vibes. Oh, for sure. David Cage played Resident Evil 1 and was like, hmm, what if?
00:50:15
Speaker
What if I took this game and disguised it as my own? ho, delightfully divinish. The whole thing was creepy. And of course you get to meet Outher as well at that point. I've got a question though about Outher. I don't know if it's explained in the game and if it is, absolutely fine. But all the androids are relatively of the same height and everything. What did they need a behemoth like Outher for? Was that a military droid? Was that a labor droid? I want to say that maybe he was, and that's why he was like a behemoth, but I don't recall it ever being explained. It's just like, here you go. but They're running an underground wrestling organization of androids. I have to say, that whole section where you have to free yourself, that is so stressful. Yes. Where you get told, oh you should go to this as lack of, he'll help you and everything. And then it's like, oh, cool. What great guy. Why does he live in Agatha's mansion?
00:51:10
Speaker
Why does he live here? Then you go in and he's like, ah, sure, I'll take your tracker out for you. And then, nope, I'm boozled. And of course, it can't be a David Cage game without a character getting chained up or restrained in some way. Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, and it's the only female character in the game, of course. In the basement as well. Double points for being a creep. Right. So, of course, if you... I mean, I've played it both ways. Not intentionally, because I couldn't free myself the first time. But if you don't free yourself, then you become...
00:51:39
Speaker
completely mind wiped and you have to look at particular objects to regain your memory otherwise you can just short circuit the machine but it is so tense because you meet it's basically like an adult version of that scene in toy story you know with all the mutant toys that are like yeah all put together with different body parts oh it gives me the heebie jeebies but you have to sneak up and you have to free alice and everything out of curiosity did you kill the one in the bathtub I think I did, because that's the one that was like, mercy kill him, right? Well, kind of, yeah, but he also screams if you don't take out his heart. He's like, Zlockhoff, they're in here! I like I've done both, yeah, i feel like I did both. But I also freed the polar bear, which... Oh, hell yeah. I'm so confused.
00:52:23
Speaker
but Because, i mean, I got the happy ending for that. You can choose to burn down the house, try and escape. And then once you escape, at the very end, again, much like Toy Story, they all come out and they beat them to death. Yes, yes, I've gotten that one. And that is terrifying. But if you unlock the cage, but you don't use the polar bear, the polar bear just walks in back.
00:52:44
Speaker
He's like dum-da-dum-da-dum. What? How they signify that he's evil? Pet polar bear. But why a polar bear? I genuinely can't remember if it's explained because I know Marcus and Carl, they've got the birds that they activate, which is the whole thing in itself. But what use would you get out a polar bear? I mean, is it for research purposes? Is it for war? It's a second TikTok business. It's just, look at, the account's just called Look at My Badass Polar Bear. He just does TikTok videos of the polar bear to get money. I'm such an alpha male. Look at me. I've got my own polar bears. Why do you have a polar bear?
00:53:19
Speaker
It's his alpha influencer account. But in the middle of Detroit, I have one of those pet accounts. Me trying to cook with my polar bear. but And the polar bear just devours. I was like, oh dear. Join us next week. making crumpets. was like, oh no. I feel as if after that, Cadiz story, between that and Jericho, it's quite slow in between because there's a scene where you get to the amusement park that of course was inspired by Fahrenheit Indigo prophecy. Oh, of course.
00:53:47
Speaker
And you meet all the, is it the Jerry's? Yes, the Jerry's. Which, again, i think has such an interesting concept that this particular amusement park would have all of these similar looking robots force staff and be like, oh, we'll help you and blah blah blah. And they're all really scared that it's humans hunting them. But fun fact, actually, did you know there's a deleted scene for that level? I think I've heard about it, but i don't think I've seen it. Someone managed to recompile it on YouTube and it's really fascinating. So, you know, after the heartwarming scene where it's like, oh, Alice is on the carousel. Then after that, a group of teenagers come in and like a humvy or something. and they start shooting all the jenny's and everything and you can choose how you want to interact with them you can choose to pretend you're human or you can choose to shoot them or shoot at them and you can die at that point and i do find it so funny that there's a creepy scene where you go there for shelter and then the jenny's rake ja's reking and everything and then you have this heartwarming scene where it's like oh we're looking after your child oh yay look at this whimsy and it's like nah nah nah this is too cheery let's shoot them all you know it's like oh but i would explain why there was only one jerry later on it's really interesting though but but i would say cara's missions are probably filled with the most either controversy or tense moments i would agree that there's never a happy moment there it's like you get your small little like oh look at cara and alice bonding and it's like okay that's enough it's like when you find out alice is an android you're like so were you programmed to be this annoying but at the end it's like, they're gonna have to answer a few questions years later when they're in their 30s and Alice hasn't grown up yet. It's like, interesting. It's actually quite interesting that Kara's is the hardest bit to get a happy ending in because it depends on how Marcus treats the world. If you go the aggressive route, then they won't light you through the border security. And if you decide not to go through the border security, there's a whole...
00:55:48
Speaker
horrible horrible scene where you can go through is it like a boat or something i think so and you go through the river crossing and for some reason i always find that weird because it's like the canadians are on gunboats or maybe it's the americans but they're on gunboats and they're like over my cold dead maple syrup Are you getting over here? And it's like they shoot at you and everything, and you have to try and push the boat over, and, I mean, Alice can practically die at that point. So does Luthor, because, I mean, Luthor's man-mountain. He can get shot like that. you're like, hmm. It's honestly the worst option, I would say. I think you can succeed, but you'd only succeed as Kara and Alice. But that's it, really. is Again, you compare to the others. How would you rank Kara's story? Would you say hers is one of the better ones, or... It's so tough because I would definitely say Connor's is leaps and bounds the best one. um Marcus and Kara both have their really good moments. I guess I would slightly put Marcus's ahead of Kara's because I do like the whole revolutionary aspect of Marcus's story. Meanwhile, Kara's story can just feel like a little bit of babysitting too much at times, even though it's like very high stakes babysitting. The most dangerous babysitting job you'll ever take on. It's like you have that meme of the main plot and then the average Kara subplot and it's just her fighting for her life. Running through gunfire and things. You're like, oh god. I think I would put Connor's first, Marcus's second, and then Kara's third. See, it always flips between for me because i think Kara's is definitely the more emotional one. Right. Then again, there are a lot of really sad and very emotional moments for Marcus because I do like the introduction where you get sent out to get paints because clearly Carl was an utter chad. He's a Warhammer player, so he wants his paints. You go out and get his paints and depending on what route you take, you can either get beat up by protesters or can take the long way around, which is what I did the second time. Because it's like, oh my god, you took my job. You ticker Jim. You ticker
00:57:54
Speaker
Watched one episode of South Park. He took our reference. The whole allegory for it being discrimination and racism and things, it's quite basic in a way. i think for the most part it does work for the story, but not going to pretend, you know, it's done in a really clever and subtle way. It really slaps you in the face and goes, do you know it yet? Are you feeling it now, Mr. Cubs? You know, it's like... Yeah.
00:58:18
Speaker
Yeah, after that you get introduced to Carl's son, Leo, who is just a little shit. I push him every time. this is Deserves it. Because it's like, Marcus, stop this! And it's like, no, I'm sorry, I know you're Lance Hendrickson, but no, I'm sorry, I know you were an alien, but no, I'm not stopping. You beat the shit out of him.
00:58:38
Speaker
And unfortunately he does live, so it's like, great. Leo, that is. But doesn't matter what you do, whether you don't intervene or whether you intervene, you still get shot by the police, which I thought, eh, that's not great. Off to the scrap heap. Yeah, as you said, that whole sequence is terrifying, especially when you're trying to look for spare parts, and there's a female android there, who begs you not to take her heart, and you can choose not to and find it elsewhere, but Again, it's that moment you're broken, you're desperate, and you think, do I have the right to take this? I mean, I'm the one living, you're not. And, you know, it's basically survival of the fittest. And I know technically you can make the allegory of it's just like a death pit, like a mass grave and everything, and it's just horrific imagery. But then kind of after that, it's like Marcus becomes quite bland after that. Yeah, He's like, oh, yay, the revolution. thing Okay. Marcus, you have one interest. Take up another hobby. It's like, no, no, no, no. But yeah, what do you think, Sori? Yeah, like you said, it starts off like you're very interested. Like, yeah, you're going through the motions and getting the pain and then you're just thrust into this horror level. And then parkour to like get into Jericho. Oh, yeah. And then it kind of teeters off a little bit. I thought the introduction of like meeting everyone, it's like, okay, it's slowing down a little bit. Mm-hmm. I liked taking over the TV station. That was kind of an interesting concept of how are you going to play this? Are you going to appease the piece? Or are you going to try to incite more like violence and stuff like that? How that's played out is interesting to me. Or like the section where you're destroying stuff to riot. David Cage has to get his romance in there of North and Marcus. It's so funny, though. I romanced her my first round because like, why not? I'll try it. And then the second time around, i purposefully was doing every option that she did not want me to do. Yet she was like, I love you, Marcus. And I was like, huh? Me? me How? There's nobody else here. You're talking to me. Why do you love me? I literally kept picking everything you didn't want me to do. Yeah, because i went through the pacifist route and everything. I went the Jean-Luc Picard route. And everyone was still like, well, North was like, I love you, Marcus. And it's like, okay. Which
01:00:45
Speaker
doing this now I guess because I think her story again her story is quite tragic in the sense that if I remember correctly was she not like an escort android that I think so yeah again David Cage trying to write a female character without drama speedrun any percent can happen but yeah I think what annoys people and i can sympathize with you there is that she just is quite one note for a lot of it yeah you know she's very much like yeah let's blow up every human that's like right there's no compromise with her it's just she's so disappointed with you if you don't want to destroy everything mean what i do find funny is it's like think you're getting through to her by the end which is like you know maybe this peaceful option is the way to go and she's like hey marcus check it out a dirty bomb is like what
01:01:35
Speaker
I beg your pardon. Oh yeah, this, I can't remember what it was, but it's like this android got his hands in nuclear weapons or something. Or like he made a bomb out of nuclear material and like, oh yeah, here's the trigger for it. I'm like, do I have to take it? I mean, I'll take but okay. Because that's hilarious as well that by the end of it, once you're surrounded by the army and they've killed off all the deviants and you're the only ones left, it's like the options are, do you A, kiss North in front of everyone, which is what I did. And yeah, turns out they love a good kiss. I joke all the time about that is that with my chat when I was streaming it, I was like, wow, look at heterosexuality saving the android race. I joke that like, if it was two gay androids, we'd be shot on sight. Cut the air. Congrats, heteros, you saved everyone. All of the days work.
01:02:21
Speaker
Just flies away. Everybody gets fun. It's sad, but true. you either sing, like Loom is. i can't remember what the third option is, think it's just, i don't know, you just say, no, screw you and get shot. And then the other option's like, dirty bottom.
01:02:39
Speaker
It's so funny. Because it's like, yeah, i mean, don't get me wrong. yeah People have been rounded up and everything. You're like, yeah, you'd be a bit peeved, but it's just like, hmm, do we deal with this peacefully or do we use the worst imaginable outcome? I don't know how you feel about this, but see Connor's turn to deviancy. Do you feel as if that's somewhat rushed? I know it's a gradual build up like that, but I think it's really well done. But it's like when he finally meets Marcus and then Marcus just kind of TED talks him to deviancy. Yeah, I could see with Hank, that slow build, it making sense. But if you've been choosing to disregard Hank, then it's like, yeah, I don't think one little TED Talk is going to fix this. What's up, guys? I'm streaming from Jericho. Is that a helicopter? And again, that is such a tense scene as well. I've seen that when I was in with Kara and I'm running through the ship. You know when you go into the room to hide and someone's banging on the door, like, open up. And Alice is like, Kara, open the door, they're going to die. I'm like, no, I've seen this YouTube tutorial. opening that door no i'm sorry i was no no no thank you but that of course leads to the finale where honestly it's quite interesting and because you've got the action packs who's the evil twin bit with connor which i think cyber life's the worst thing that they could have done is bring hank to the situation right because it's like why would you bring him to cyber life you fight with your Connor clone and you have to talk out and I love the speech between Hank and Connor where he's like oh my son didn't die because of an android it was because of the surgeon it honestly is it's just such a beautiful scene when the other Connor's like knew that too I knew that he just gets shot and it's like shut up silence you Then he leads an android revolution. And it's quite interesting. Have you seen the alternate endings for that scenario? I probably have, but I don't remember them. Yeah, if Marcus dies during the fight, then Connor becomes the head of the revolution. And again, he borrowed part of the playbook from Beyond Two Souls for the ending because, and it makes absolutely no sense that you lead the android revolution and you're addressing them. And then all of a sudden, Amanda pops into your head. There's like that Akira mean, get out of my head! So it's like, get out of my head. She's like, oh, this is what we planned all along. Piss off. It's like, why? Oh, yeah, you planned a whole robot uprising. It's like, no, you didn't.
01:05:04
Speaker
The implication is he planned it so that they would take over Connor and then they could control the deviants and all of that, which I thought, eh, not great. But then, of course, you can decide either to give up and let Cyberlife do that or shoot yourself. And I'm like, wow, you've really watched the end of Beyond Two Souls, didn't you? yeah Very odd ending. But actually, one thing, speaking of characters we haven't talked about, one character we need to touch on is Kamski, who is the, what say, former CEO of CyberLife, or he helped develop the robots, but he also developed a robot called Chloe. And of course, Chloe is the android that you see at the very beginning of the game. How did you feel about that? It's so bizarre because every time you open the game, she just greets you and then just starts stating like random quotes and stuff. I see what we were going for. It's still bizarre. And then when you beat the game and she's like, can I be freed? And then she's gone. It's just like void. think it's fine. It's just what was the real intent here, David Cage? We're just like, look what we can do. I mean, I have to say, i do appreciate it when the UI is quite clever, like it comments and things. Although it is very depressing when you let a character die and she's like, can't believe you did that. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.
01:06:20
Speaker
I'm sorry, game. i can't believe you're judging me for it. What's quite cool, though, is if you play it on the holiday, although I don't know why you would play it on the 4th of July or Christmas season, Oh boy, my annual Christmas is Detroit Become Human playthrough. That's the thing, it's like she says, on behalf of Cyber Life, I want to wish you a Merry Christmas. I hope Santa brings you an Android and all of that. You're like, oh, interesting. Because speaking of interesting, did you do the survey?
01:06:45
Speaker
I think I did. yeah some of the questions are kind of standard like would you trust androids to do xyz but one of the ones which really threw me through a loop was like would you date an android or a robot that looked like a human and of course i was like no absolutely not because i mean i've got a whole episode admitting to discrimination yeah exactly yeah it'll be a crime in 2050 probably but with chat gbtist But yeah, I mean, I've talked about this in length in the AI episode that we did, but the whole idea of dating something that is like a robot, the thing has is, it's like the way that they portray life and even say in Detroit isn't really realistic, if you know what I mean. The way that robots now are programmed, they're programmed to think and feel in a different way, whereas in the game, they're more human. So it's like, why you want to date your Roomba? That's what saying. That's what want to leave you on. Why would you date your Roomba? Yeah, David Cage is like, hmm, can I make a dating simulator next with robots? With robots and Bob. Will people accept me and Bob? I don't want to live in the world without Bob.
01:07:51
Speaker
I mean, if he put that in the survey, I wouldn't be surprised. Do you like Bob? You only have yes as an answer. Yes, yes. Something isn't right here, David. See, overall, going back to what we've talked about this month, because we've talked about Fahrenheit, we've talked about Heavy Rain, and of course, Beyond Two Souls. How would this game rank in your estimations? It's definitely Heavy Rain on top. No surprise there. Then it would be... I'm just kidding. It would be Detroit Become Human. You have been going there for a second. I was like, oh, God. Gotta keep you on your toes. I know, you do. Yeah, Heavy Rain, Detroit Become Human, Indigo Prophecy, Beyond Two Souls. That's a fair run, Jimmy. what i would say is i feel as if detroit is the better game to play gameplay wise because i feel as if it's a refined version of you know the re glasses from nam and jane i feel as if they took that one character and they made them all androids and i'm like i love that i think that is so cool they do such a good job with the gameplay in detroit and at least it gives you time to analyze your situations and be like i'm gonna get shot aren't i it's like yeah I'm in danger. back to what I was saying before about Marcus, the amount of times you can just purposely mess up when it's like, oh, lock the door.
01:09:06
Speaker
then you don't lock it. North shoots them. He's just like, I told you to lock the door. And he's like, you don't have to kill them. It's so funny, but so sh- stupid but i know i feel as if again for the nostalgia and the story point of view i would probably put heavy rain at the top but it's a really slim if it was a tier list they'd both be in the same case here but if i had to rank them yeah to agree with you heavy rain detroit beyond no i'm looking and then beyond no sorry fahrenheit space space space beyond no sorry space space colon beyond yeah As you can tell, Beyond wasn't her favourite game. In summary though, I do feel as if when Detroit gets it right, it really gets it right.
Marcus and Carl's Relationship
01:09:51
Speaker
As we said with Connor and Hank, their relationship is just absolutely fantastic. I really love Marcus and Carl's relationship as well. Because I mean, you might think, oh, they only get the beginning of the game and then they get shot by the police. Oh dear. But he ends up returning, doesn't he, at the end of the game and they ask him for advice. And it's a really heartwarming scene, you know, because again, he calls him his son. And you're like, what is it with this game calling him son? I think the character that doesn't get that treatment is Kara. Son. Yeah, because she's going through her own personal trauma slash hell. But mean, again, I just love the interpersonal relationships that all of these characters have. And don't get me wrong, you do get these stereotypical ones. Like, for example, you know, the police detective. They'll just hate you for no reason.
Humorous Game Interactions
01:10:36
Speaker
I think his name's Gavin, yeah. Yeah, Gavin, that's the funniest one was when, you know when you have to find Jericho and go to the basement? And remember Gavin popped up and he's like, hey, where are you going, Tin Can? Where you going? I just clicked to leave. It's so funny, you just leave him and he's like, what? What? You still get to beat the crap out of him, so like,
Comparing 'Heavy Rain' and 'Detroit'
01:10:57
Speaker
I like this game. So see if someone came up to you, after listening to this month, of course, and said, I want to play a David Cage game, I want to play a Quantic Dream game, what one would you recommend me to get into this particular series? See out of Heavy Rain in Detroit, which one would you choose, personally? Oh, Heavy Rain for sure. I feel like as much as I love Connor's story, I can openly say out of every David Cage story, Connor's one is my absolute favorite. Yeah. But as an experience overall, I would have to pick Heavy Rain. I mean, that's fair. There's a lot to love about Heavy Rain, isn't there?
Quantic Dream's Game Quality Trends
01:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's a tough one for me because if they were into a more realistic story, then definitely Heavy Rain. But if they want the sci-fi element and their slumps for Connor, go for Detroit. I mean, both are just solid games. And it's weird because we've got this thing of Fahrenheit, not great. Heavy Rain, yeah, pretty good. Beyond, terrible. Yeah, it's a really good game. So it's like, whatever he's going to make next, is it going to buck the trend? Is it going to be good? Is it going to be bad? I
David Cage's Multi-Genre Approach
01:12:02
Speaker
don't know. I fear. You don't know what he. See, by us fearing, he should just go for that horror game since we're already fearing. honestly wish he would just stick to one genre rather than making a multi-genre story because as we said before, that is the thing. He can write really good horror sometimes, probably from personal experience. I don't know. His Wikipedia page is a minefield. You know, sometimes you can write really good stories and prose, other times it's like, they just overlaps. As we said with Beyond last week, it's just, you know, a cross between action, young adult romance and things. It's just, it's all over the place. So unlike that, they relatively keep a consistent tone. As depressing as it can be sometimes, and if you can get over the controversies of this game,
Ethical Concerns of Owning Androids
01:12:49
Speaker
yeah. i would wholeheartedly recommend it but wouldn't really recommend getting your own android to play it personally no bob's not a fan no very true so before we wrap up and before i ask you for your socials yeah would you get an android out curiosity no i feel like just the implications of just owning something that's humanoid just does not sit right with me personally so i would say I know. It's like, that's one of the criticisms someone brought up. They were like, why did you make it human?
01:13:17
Speaker
You know, and I know why from a narrative point of view, it's supposed to draw parallels and you'll evoke emotion. But it's like, in reality, you make them as robotic looking as possible. You don't make them so sympathetic that they go, oh yeah, I don't want to kill this robot that's going to kill me.
Reflecting on Quantic Dream Month
01:13:33
Speaker
Then again, with the way that chat GPT is going and everything, we might have it sooner than you think. Yeah. And on that depressing note, Jules, first of all, yeah, thank you for joining me in this Quantic Dream month. And honestly, it's been an absolute blast recording with you. And I am so sorry again for you having to play some of the games again. that's Some better than others, but I apologize as well. But honestly, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. As much as the games that I replayed are not great, it was still good to refresh my memory on them and to remember how much fun I did have playing the good ones and just experiencing it all over again has been quite the journey. It's been the Quantic Dream, if you will. yeah
01:14:13
Speaker
And on that note, where can these amazing Pandalorians listening at home find your content? All my socials are BadGamesJules. Twitter, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, all the same handle, BadGamesJules. And
Promotions and Social Media
01:14:26
Speaker
yeah, you want to listen to more episodes of Quantic Dream Month, as well as other episodes that Jules and I have done, then you can check us out our website, chatsthanami.com. as well as all good podcast apps. I also want to thank our amazing Pandalorian patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster, Ghostie and Cryptic 1991. Thank you so much for supporting the show. And if you would like access to exclusive content, as well as Jules and I's plans for building a mob-centric robot for legal reasons, that last one's a joke, then indeed you can check us out at our Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash.
Concluding Thoughts on the Podcast
01:15:00
Speaker
chat tsunami this podcast is of course a proud member of the pod pack collective for more information check us out at our twitter slash x page pod pack collect but until next time thank you all so so much for joining us on this journey as we have gone through all of the quantum dream games it has been an absolute blast and yeah definitely go check out jules do not let her suffering be in vain just drop a bob and shout if you know you know just write bob in the comments you'll know if you know you know But yeah, as always, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated. And for the love of God, don't buy an Android. Just don't give David Cage any ammo for his next game.