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Dr Fiona Short and Paddy Tarbuck, from the UK Agri-Tech Centre, talk poultry innovation and sustainability
4 Plays3 months ago
Discussing their mission to help transform agriculture through the discoveries and developments of science-led research, Dr Fiona Short and Paddy Tarbuck, Innovation Leads at UK Agri-Tech Centre, joined Tom in the studio for another edition of the Sustainability Hub podcast.
We hear how the UK Agri-Tech Centre was created, learn about the kind of support and the facilities on offer to the food and farming industry, and get a preview on some of the exciting news from the burgeoning back-catalogue of successful funding calls the team have been involved with.
Branded ‘Activate, Elevate and Accelerate’, members of UK Agri-Tech Centre benefit from athree-tiered level of support, designed to meet the different needs of every client, from independent farmers to multinational companies.
But irrespective of size, the access to expertise, the connection of businesses with academia and science and the project management skills to unlock investment are benefits felt by all.
In a rapidly changing world, where sustainability presents the food and farming sector with both opportunity and threat, Paddy, Fiona and Tom discuss whether pressures from the supply chain have helped or hindered the adoption of technology or practices that could move the dial.
Leaning on Fiona’s deep understanding of poultry nutrition, we discuss feed raw material supply chains, novel proteins and their regulation and split-feeding.
Paddy, whose agri-food knowledge and broad experience across sustainability shines through, raises ‘resilience’ as a mutually beneficial perspective on such challenges and describes the inspirational leadership demonstrated by one egg producer active in the UK Agri-Tech Centre network.
The final call to action is clear. Whether you’re a primary producer or in a business further along the food chain, UK Agri-Tech Centre can help unlock your potential and create lasting value.
And if you’re looking for more direct involvement, as an organisation in a period of strong growth, Paddy and Fiona are looking to bolster the Sustainability team, too.
It’s a great time to get in touch with them.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Sustainability Hub podcast.
00:00:04
Speaker
My name's Tom Willings and this week we see the UK Agritech Centre join us here in the studio.
00:00:12
Speaker
Paddy, Fiona, welcome.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're going to do proper introductions in a moment, but just by way of reminder, the podcast is sponsored by, as well as the UK Agritech Centre, Moy Park, Alltech, Aviagen, Trow Nutrition and Alanco.
Career Paths in Agritech Centre
00:00:31
Speaker
Paddy, can I turn to you just to do a bit of an introduction for your role and then Fiona for the business?
00:00:39
Speaker
Sure, yeah, thanks Tom and thanks for having us on.
00:00:42
Speaker
So I'm Paddy Tarbuk, I've been with the UK Agritech Centre in its various formats for close to a couple of years now.
00:00:50
Speaker
I have a broad background across sustainability and the sustainability profession which covers the private sector, public sector, charity and even the kind of startup environment.
00:01:02
Speaker
So my role here is as an innovation lead for agri-food sustainability within one of our
00:01:08
Speaker
core key themes in sustainable production and across our sustainability team.
00:01:14
Speaker
So Paddy, your job title, if I'm right, is the Innovation Lead for Agri-Food Sustainability.
00:01:22
Speaker
How have you ended up with a career in sustainability?
00:01:25
Speaker
Why sustainability?
00:01:26
Speaker
So, you know, some of it by chance, some of it by sort of passion and what drives me.
00:01:32
Speaker
I have an undergrad degree in politics and a postgrad master's in climate change.
00:01:38
Speaker
So I worked after my master's course, I went into the insurance sector and the development sector looking at climate risk, really mitigating the impacts of climate risk globally, working on development projects throughout Southeast Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.
00:01:56
Speaker
I then was kind of led to the charity sector where I worked quite closely with community clubs and community centres to try and reduce their electricity, water and waste.
00:02:06
Speaker
So more of the kind of general sustainability profession as you'd expect.
00:02:10
Speaker
And then back to kind of more corporate sustainability.
00:02:14
Speaker
So really helping businesses shape what their strategy and the design looks like and how to
00:02:19
Speaker
to bring them along the journey of yes environmental sustainability but also social and economic sustainability alongside um and and that led me eventually to to the agriculture sector where there is enormous impact
00:02:33
Speaker
And a huge opportunity.
00:02:34
Speaker
And a huge opportunity.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, what a fantastic foundation.
00:02:37
Speaker
And Fiona, I apologise, I should have introduced you as Dr Fiona Short, of course.
00:02:43
Speaker
You're an innovation lead as well, but for animal health and nutrition.
00:02:47
Speaker
So a slightly nuanced role, more livestock focused than Paddy.
00:02:52
Speaker
But could you give us some background on your career?
00:02:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Tom.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, I've been involved in agriculture and poultry for many years now, starting with my PhD many years ago at Nottingham University on poultry nutrition and postdoc, and then spent many years working for ADAS, the research site, ADAS Gleadthorpe.
00:03:15
Speaker
focusing on nutrition and welfare studies there.
00:03:18
Speaker
And I sort of stepped back into university research and also some part-time lecturing as well at Nottingham Trent University.
00:03:27
Speaker
A brilliant experience to get back into funded research again.
00:03:31
Speaker
Also the opportunity to work with students.
00:03:34
Speaker
I really do enjoy working with the next generation, giving them the skills they need and to see how they can progress as well in an industry that I've really enjoyed working in.
00:03:45
Speaker
So, Nottingham Trent was a really good couple of years and then headed back into the industry as such.
00:03:52
Speaker
Four years working for Ampario, the finalative company, technical manager there, but also doing a lot of research studies and looking at product development.
00:04:02
Speaker
And then...
00:04:03
Speaker
I spent a couple of years working on the dark side, on the ruminant side for Momenko, but I was on some poultry projects for them.
00:04:12
Speaker
Trying to bring them into the light.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Make them see the light.
00:04:18
Speaker
So that was, again, product development, but that was an eye-opener and a bit of, you know,
00:04:23
Speaker
A bit of background information on what happens in the Ruminate world as well, which is very beneficial now for the role I have within the UK, I'm a tech centre, where I am the innovation lead for animal health and nutrition.
00:04:36
Speaker
But I suppose my focus would still be nutrition with the poultry welfare side, harking back to my ADAS days, coming into use as well.
00:04:45
Speaker
And there, you know, again, working with, you know, my experience in industry and academia and working for ADAS, which does both as well.
00:04:56
Speaker
You're perfectly placed in role, aren't you?
00:04:57
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:04:58
Speaker
And you've come through what was CL.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yes, I have.
00:05:01
Speaker
Yes.
Formation and Interdisciplinary Work at UK Agritech Centre
00:05:02
Speaker
So probably no one better place to talk about how CL has become the Agritech Centre.
00:05:09
Speaker
I wonder, could you talk to us a bit about how one has become the other?
00:05:14
Speaker
Yes, mostly CL was formed by the government 7, 8, 9 years ago.
00:05:21
Speaker
It was one of the four agrotech centres as it was then.
00:05:25
Speaker
And then CL was the livestock-focused centre.
00:05:31
Speaker
Two of the centres were plant plant,
00:05:34
Speaker
and robotics and where the three that have merged.
00:05:37
Speaker
Then there was a full centre, Agrometrics, which is looking at data and that is still running.
00:05:42
Speaker
It's a completely separate company now.
00:05:45
Speaker
We still work with to a certain extent, but they're not part of the new Agrotech Centre.
00:05:51
Speaker
which came together in April of last year.
00:05:55
Speaker
So it's been a very interesting couple of years, really, you know, working together, you know, bringing expertise from, you know, the crops, robotics and livestock all together.
00:06:07
Speaker
There's lots, lots of crossover, you know, in terms of livestock, you know, the agri-epi.
00:06:14
Speaker
the work they were doing in terms of robotics and sensors is very applicable to poultry livestock.
00:06:21
Speaker
So there's really good crossover there.
00:06:24
Speaker
So we're able to build more relationships within the company and obviously for the benefit of the industry moving forward.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah.
Challenges and Growth of Agritech Centre
00:06:33
Speaker
From my perspective as someone who's sort of 15 years in industry, I look at poultry and I think compared to some of the other livestock sectors, we're a bit of a forgotten trade.
00:06:44
Speaker
Very, very heavily integrated and I suppose that brings with it a degree of self-sufficiency.
00:06:50
Speaker
Businesses in the poultry industry have got used to.
00:06:53
Speaker
Certainly in the UK, not being supported in the conventional sense with too much funding.
00:07:02
Speaker
Well-invested organisations with long supply chains who have found ways to differentiate their business and to move their business forward.
00:07:10
Speaker
But these are changing times and it's a very, very big world out there, changing consumer habits, changing political focus.
00:07:18
Speaker
We absolutely need to harness science and technology to make sure that our industry is best placed for the future home.
00:07:26
Speaker
and abroad and I guess to an extent that's what your business is here to provide, to link business with science, with funding and listening to you both today.
00:07:37
Speaker
Enormous experience, Fiona, in poultry and Paddy, what a phenomenal CV from an academic and food business point of view.
00:07:48
Speaker
You're a phenomenal resource as individuals and an organisation for the industry to deploy.
00:07:56
Speaker
I guess that's why you're here and that's what we want to talk to people about today.
00:08:02
Speaker
You've had a busy start to the year by all accounts.
00:08:04
Speaker
You were telling me it's been a bit of a whirlwind.
00:08:06
Speaker
Just talk to me about that.
00:08:08
Speaker
So I guess just on the back of the merger and growing from quite a small group,
00:08:16
Speaker
um scl to to a large group overnight that has meant we've got this blend of expertise uh new capabilities research facilities that we we didn't have before which is enormous in terms of the opportunity and we've been on picking that and unlocking the potential of that through a variety of different forms so one of which um you know further development of our reports you might be familiar with some of those reports um in in rcl days
00:08:43
Speaker
But more probably specifically in projects and by projects, commercial research and development, research and development on our farms and our farm network.
00:08:54
Speaker
And that has meant that we are extremely busy, which I think is a good sign, a privilege as well.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:02
Speaker
And looking for people, looking for resources to further extend the opportunity to conduct more research and development in kind of a commercial setting as well.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:12
Speaker
I mean, particularly from a poultry perspective.
00:09:15
Speaker
I mean, you mentioned it before, poultry is often the forgotten sector in livestock.
00:09:19
Speaker
So it feels that way.
00:09:20
Speaker
It certainly feels that way.
00:09:21
Speaker
And we've heard that particularly from some of our poultry members, you know, always looking for good people in that sector.
Engagement and Collaboration with Farmers
00:09:27
Speaker
It's, you know, one of the fastest growing sectors in the UK.
00:09:31
Speaker
You know, enormous amount of innovation and technology potential.
00:09:35
Speaker
And, you know, we'd love to be able to kind of support young careers and older careers as well.
00:09:41
Speaker
And we're doing exactly that in the minute is bringing in good people and recruiting where we can.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:47
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:09:48
Speaker
If I'm a business in the chain, either I'm a farmer myself or, you know, working in a processor or an integrator or a packer, etc.
00:09:59
Speaker
How do I get involved?
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think the first thing is just to contact us.
00:10:05
Speaker
We're quite often at many events as well.
00:10:07
Speaker
I try to get to as many of the poetry events as I can.
00:10:11
Speaker
Just approach me.
00:10:13
Speaker
But outside various events, it's just look on the website, put an inquiry in.
00:10:20
Speaker
You can just ask, mention my name.
00:10:23
Speaker
Dr Fiona Short.
00:10:25
Speaker
Or Paddy's name.
00:10:26
Speaker
You know, it will come through to us.
00:10:28
Speaker
You know, we can quickly organise a, you know, a virtual online meeting.
00:10:33
Speaker
And, you know, we can listen and we can assess, we can assimilate data.
00:10:39
Speaker
Sometimes we go back and come back, you know, our thoughts.
00:10:42
Speaker
Or we might be able to, you know, sort of,
00:10:43
Speaker
think about those projects that might help or those people that we know that we're in contact with that might help as well.
00:10:49
Speaker
So, you know, we do have lots of contacts within the industry, within other stakeholders, the government, you know, HGB we work closely with, retailers and a few.
00:11:00
Speaker
We do have lots of really good links.
00:11:03
Speaker
So, you know, if we don't know the person that might be able to help, we might be able to find out for you and help.
00:11:09
Speaker
We do have a membership as well, which anyone within agriculture is welcome to join.
00:11:16
Speaker
We have three different levels, activate, elevate and accelerate, depending on how much you want to invest.
00:11:23
Speaker
Because obviously there is a membership charge.
00:11:26
Speaker
But it starts pretty low, doesn't it?
00:11:28
Speaker
It's a £500 annual membership for a foundation level membership.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
It all depends on the size because we have, you know, we have three levels of size of company as well.
00:11:40
Speaker
So it's all, you know, it's all like pro-rata depending on how much you want from us and also the size of your company as well.
00:11:49
Speaker
If I'm a farmer, there is even a role for me within the UK Agritech Centre to take a membership, to be an active participant, to get a benefit from it.
00:12:00
Speaker
There's something for me there as well as the big businesses looking to access funding or put in multi-million pound bids, et cetera, to government backing.
00:12:10
Speaker
It's something for everybody.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yes, yes, there is.
00:12:12
Speaker
And obviously you can benefit from just turning up to, you know, we have some membership events which are for members only.
00:12:19
Speaker
Typically they would have presentations and sometimes they have a different theme.
00:12:25
Speaker
So it may be a funding theme.
00:12:27
Speaker
It may be looking at new regulation theme.
00:12:32
Speaker
It may be looking at some new standards coming in.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:36
Speaker
It just depends on the actual event, what that theme is.
00:12:39
Speaker
But the main focus is to bring people together.
00:12:42
Speaker
I'm glad you said that.
00:12:43
Speaker
I wanted to sort of bring us back to what's the core purpose.
00:12:46
Speaker
Paddy, am I right in thinking, and correct me if I've got this sort of wider the mark, but it's about bringing, again, business and science together to work collaboratively, either collaboratively,
00:12:59
Speaker
in isolation of government funding, but perhaps also for an application for backing as well, one of these sort of project calls, to further research and development with a variety of different parties working together, is that?
00:13:14
Speaker
Absolutely, and I think we probably work in a variety of those different stages.
00:13:18
Speaker
i think what drove me to get involved in in cl originally the agri-tech center is this notion of translating science into communicable communicable formats that can be you know accepted by all different audiences and you mentioned farmers before and perhaps a membership offering and and how we kind of bring them along on the journey
00:13:37
Speaker
And ultimately, all of the research and development we're kind of exploring is to support the adoption of technology and innovation and different ways of farming and practices on farms.
00:13:48
Speaker
So we can't do that without the farmer.
00:13:49
Speaker
And we've got to be able to find a way of communicating and sharing knowledge in the right format to be able to do that.
00:13:55
Speaker
So sitting in this kind of almost this nexus of industry, academia, government,
00:14:02
Speaker
with a view of kind of working directly with farmers is quite privileged in a way and helps us kind of sit back a little bit and be kind of independent and evidence-driven in that way as well.
Sustainability and Feed Practices in Poultry
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:16
Speaker
And Fiona, you touched on, you know, different themes, different, different, you know, projects and what's the word, you know, challenges that between industry and academia we're trying to crack.
00:14:31
Speaker
What's on the agenda?
00:14:32
Speaker
What are the kind of topics that projects are starting to research or to try to get to grips with?
00:14:39
Speaker
Obviously, my particular area, a lot of projects are looking at soil replacement, lowering the carbon footprint of feed, which obviously in pig and poultry feed.
00:14:52
Speaker
Soil's a huge part of the footprint with land use changes.
00:14:55
Speaker
It is.
00:14:55
Speaker
It is.
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:57
Speaker
So there's been several projects in that area.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
And then I've also mentioned, you know, no welfare, you know, obviously with the beak trimming band that may come in down the line as well.
00:15:09
Speaker
It's been ongoing forever.
00:15:11
Speaker
I think when you put system reproduction and, you know, cage versus outdoor or cage versus indoor alternative systems, there's one challenge you mentioned.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:26
Speaker
Beak trimming, but you could also talk about male chicks as well.
00:15:30
Speaker
You know, there are transitions or adaptations that the industry as a whole are facing into and technology and science and research and the application of then that sort of evidence-based learning.
00:15:49
Speaker
That's surely got to be how we move forward.
00:15:52
Speaker
And again, that's probably where you guys...
00:15:56
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:56
Speaker
And I think, you know, the industry always does what is best for the bird and always puts the birds first.
00:16:03
Speaker
And they always, you know, in terms of progress, you know, it does move forward and it, you know, eventually takes time and obviously a lot of investment, a lot of research.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker
And that's ongoing.
00:16:24
Speaker
Thinking about sustainability, change to white birds as well, and extension of bird life in terms of longevity, that is currently ongoing.
00:16:39
Speaker
There's lots of issues there that could happen on farm.
00:16:43
Speaker
So obviously lots of projects now looking at ways that we can monitor bird health, bird welfare to increase the chances of having a long, healthy flock, which is the focus of laying farms at the moment.
00:17:02
Speaker
So it's really good being able to be involved in such projects like the Flockwise Project.
00:17:08
Speaker
you know, when we're working with FAI, Lakes, Eggs, and also Newcastle University, working with them, looking at improving the bird box that FAI already have.
00:17:22
Speaker
And I'm just extending the research so we can look at more variables, you know, within egg production and birds, you know, bird health and welfare to improve the
00:17:33
Speaker
to improve the adaptable system and also to make it more farmer friendly.
00:17:37
Speaker
I think that's one of the things that we are, Paddy's already mentioned adoption.
Adoption and Barriers of New Technologies
00:17:41
Speaker
I think one of the big gaps in all UK agriculture is that technology is there, but it's not always adopted.
00:17:50
Speaker
It's not always used.
00:17:51
Speaker
And that is the big stumbling block, I think.
00:17:54
Speaker
For a lot of technology that's out there, it's just not being used.
00:17:57
Speaker
And what's the barrier?
00:17:58
Speaker
Why do you think that's the case, Paddy?
00:18:00
Speaker
I think there's a range of different barriers.
00:18:01
Speaker
I think part of it is, and if I could speak candidly, is probably an over-reliance on, well, an under-reliance, let's call it, on social scientists within these research and development projects in understanding the social and cultural dimensions around how science and technology is adopted.
00:18:23
Speaker
Because,
00:18:25
Speaker
you know, we have all of these various different products and services that we want and we assume that they are going to be, you know, silver bullet solutions and they can do all these wonderful things and,
00:18:34
Speaker
you know, everything from anaerobic digestion to through, you know, we've got a lot of these solutions, we just don't have the means of communicating them in the right way.
00:18:42
Speaker
So we need a suite of different skill sets, you know, especially when we talk about sustainability.
00:18:46
Speaker
You know, quite often you'll see sustainability professionals that have come from the marketing world or from the communications world or, you know, from kind of senior positions to try and drive that change and really influence.
00:19:00
Speaker
And I think that's where we're sort of getting to, I guess, with the UK Agritech Centre is...
00:19:05
Speaker
yes technology is great innovation is is brilliant and we're there to support that and support new businesses and research but we've also got this arm now which is which is sort of emerging and a strategic aim which is really working directly with farmers through our farm network through supplier networks where we're able to engage and actually understand what the different barriers are and the opportunities around that
00:19:29
Speaker
I would imagine at pharma level, you know, the first barrier is going to be money.
00:19:34
Speaker
Does an innovation or does a new technology pay for itself?
00:19:41
Speaker
The next is going to be, you know, trust.
00:19:43
Speaker
Does it actually work?
00:19:44
Speaker
Am I taking a risk by investing in this or by putting time and effort into doing something differently when I felt that I was already doing something that was, you know,
00:19:54
Speaker
right or struck the right balance.
00:19:57
Speaker
So if you can bring credibility and evidence, again that word, to new technology to position it with clarity, I would have thought from a farmer's perspective, then you're going to find an easier sell to someone.
00:20:13
Speaker
You're going to convince them more with that kind of backing.
00:20:17
Speaker
Definitely.
00:20:17
Speaker
I think cost is certainly a barrier and it's the one that people jump to.
00:20:21
Speaker
I'd like to frame it a little bit more around risk because at the end of the day, you're taking on a risk by adopting a new technology or a new way of farming or new practice.
00:20:30
Speaker
You don't know what that return on investment looks like.
00:20:32
Speaker
You don't know what it looks like in terms of productivity and efficiencies.
00:20:36
Speaker
So research is a really, really handy way of kind of trying to demonstrate that.
00:20:40
Speaker
So we're seeing a lot more applied research efforts.
00:20:44
Speaker
I'm involved in a couple of projects that are looking at living labs and demonstrator farms where we're able to
00:20:49
Speaker
measure and monitor the impact on farm and build this kind of model and a kind of proof of model of how technologies and different mitigations and strategies work on farm so i think that can be a really powerful tool and that peer-to-peer learning as well on you know farmers learning from each other yeah and um you know us kind of demonstrating leadership there by by being one big center is uh it's helpful
00:21:12
Speaker
But poultry, I'd imagine, is a really challenging space for new technology to break through because that risk you talk about, the other side of the coin is opportunity.
00:21:23
Speaker
If you're dealing with an animal that is already very close to its genetic potential, you look at the laying cycle of a hen or the growth profile of a broiler,
00:21:39
Speaker
The upside is not huge.
00:21:40
Speaker
There's lots of downside.
00:21:41
Speaker
You get it wrong, the birds soon let you know in whatever measure you choose to take.
00:21:48
Speaker
But there isn't that much more room to increase the persistency of lay at 50 weeks of age.
00:21:57
Speaker
It's about now managing a longer life cycle.
00:22:00
Speaker
You're not going to bring the bird in to lay
00:22:03
Speaker
any earlier.
00:22:04
Speaker
So the opportunity that's there is relatively limited and that possibly plays into the concerns about adopting new technology because that means that if there's not that much opportunity there must be, by definition, quite some risk.
00:22:20
Speaker
How do we break through that barrier to say it absolutely is still worth looking at
00:22:28
Speaker
you know, new ways of doing things, trials, research and development.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's some of the projects that I'm currently working on.
00:22:37
Speaker
It's involving the farmers at an early stage.
00:22:41
Speaker
It's talking to them as you're working on your technology and working with
Farmer Involvement in Technology Development
00:22:46
Speaker
them.
00:22:46
Speaker
And again, Paddy's already mentioned social science.
00:22:49
Speaker
It's using the social science to help you
00:22:52
Speaker
liaise with the farmers to get that best outcome and to have them involved at the early stage so they can be involved in the development of the technology and they can feed back what they don't like, what they do like.
00:23:06
Speaker
When they're looking at those interfaces of technology, it's what works for them and what they can see will work for them long term in the future as well.
00:23:15
Speaker
And that's where we're coming from now.
00:23:17
Speaker
It's involving the farmer at an early stage and also having those workshops where you've got farmers together so they can feed back together and they don't, you know, they do like to hear what, you know, that,
00:23:31
Speaker
But that peer relationship as well is very important.
00:23:35
Speaker
They listen to each other rather than listen to somebody from the outside because only a farmer understands what a farmer does and what a farmer wants.
00:23:45
Speaker
It's using those discussions amongst farmers and looking at the technology and then taking that away and then doing version two and going back.
00:23:54
Speaker
And that's what we're currently doing in several projects.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:59
Speaker
I probably have a slightly more radical view on this and feel free to cut this out if you need to because I appreciate that the audience is a lot of business and agribusiness.
00:24:07
Speaker
I think the difficulty with innovation and technology when it comes to adoption is for a lot of farmers and a lot of agribusinesses it equals kind of exponential growth.
00:24:18
Speaker
It's this
00:24:19
Speaker
driver for productivity, and we've seen that in the poultry sector in terms of enormous kind of growth over the past 50 years, when ultimately, I guess, you factor in all these different poly crises, you know, climate, AI, all of the various different, you know, stresses that we're seeing on the system, and maybe, you know, perhaps instead of chasing yield and chasing growth, we promote a resilient farming practice.
00:24:45
Speaker
But that's a completely different kind of way in thinking.
00:24:49
Speaker
But there are loads of different technologies and tools and practices that can help support that as well.
00:24:54
Speaker
And unfortunately, I guess, the way in which the business is sort of driven is economic growth.
00:25:02
Speaker
So we almost need to decouple some of that and try and unpick what that means in terms of the farmers and...
00:25:08
Speaker
They've been paid and subsidised from post-war to drive growth and really try and produce food as their ultimate outcome.
00:25:16
Speaker
But what about the environmental costs?
00:25:17
Speaker
What about the social costs and the human health and public health costs?
00:25:21
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:25:22
Speaker
I love your radical view.
00:25:24
Speaker
I know that is a radical view at all.
00:25:26
Speaker
I think that's absolutely common sense.
00:25:27
Speaker
And I wonder whether or not the word...
00:25:30
Speaker
sustainability to a farmer is a bit of a red rag to a bull.
00:25:34
Speaker
It's been a stick that probably feels like it's beating the farmer most of the time.
00:25:40
Speaker
It's interesting to see in recent days the Farm Assurance Review come out and talk about how rules have changed, how mission creep is the term that's used, where codes of practice have extended the breadth of their
00:25:56
Speaker
their reach to encompass things to do with sustainability and perhaps the word resilience better shifts that balance back towards there being a benefit to the farmer in how they manage their business.
00:26:10
Speaker
Because surely every farmer in the land and in every land is interested in the natural world, the interplay between their farm and Mother Nature, the countryside,
00:26:22
Speaker
around them, they're animals, of course.
00:26:26
Speaker
And, you know, if they can get that balance right, their business should stand the test of time, ergo, be more resilient.
Sustainable Feed Ingredients and Alternatives
00:26:34
Speaker
You mentioned soy earlier.
00:26:36
Speaker
When I think of sustainable, but let's use resilient,
00:26:41
Speaker
farming.
00:26:42
Speaker
I think of our feed, as in animal feed, and the global supply chains that go to make our compound diet for poultry.
00:26:53
Speaker
And I think, how do we change that such that we're not such an international market?
00:27:00
Speaker
Interesting when much of the world at the minute, in the last couple of weeks at least,
00:27:03
Speaker
There's been more inward focus rather than global trade focus.
00:27:07
Speaker
You wonder how we become as a nation more self-sufficient in terms of what our poultry consume.
00:27:13
Speaker
What could we replace soya with?
00:27:15
Speaker
Alternative proteins, insects, for example.
00:27:20
Speaker
And then the other aspect is manure management and the ecological impact of poultry production.
00:27:31
Speaker
How do we balance our need for nutrient in parts of the country where we're using a lot of chemical synthetic products?
00:27:39
Speaker
whilst in other parts of the country the over-application of manure or management of manure have led to concerns about environmental damage.
00:27:49
Speaker
What work are you guys involved with or what could we be doing on researching solutions to those resilience challenges?
00:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think going back to soy, it's a difficult one, isn't it?
00:28:05
Speaker
Because soy is such a good protein source, which is why it was used.
00:28:10
Speaker
And obviously, it's got the amino acid content.
00:28:14
Speaker
It's as close to... Nirvana, isn't it?
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, as you can get from many plant sources.
00:28:23
Speaker
Obviously, when it first came in replacing meat and bone meal and everything from the BSE crisis a while ago, it's had lots of breeding since then to make it the perfect protein source for poultry feed.
00:28:39
Speaker
And I think that is why we have the problem.
00:28:42
Speaker
There's no other source.
00:28:44
Speaker
Should meat and bone meal come back?
00:28:46
Speaker
Oh, contentious.
00:28:48
Speaker
It's very contentious.
00:28:49
Speaker
I would say yes.
00:28:50
Speaker
I would say as a purist looking at sustainability, looking at what we've got out there, yes, provided it's a safe source.
00:29:01
Speaker
Scientific evidence would say it is safe.
00:29:04
Speaker
Surely we've got the checks and balances and the controls in place to regulate this.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yes, but it's very difficult.
00:29:10
Speaker
Obviously, they're trying to use it in Europe.
00:29:14
Speaker
It's not easy to use it.
00:29:16
Speaker
All the rules and regulations were using it in the feed and having everything strictly separated just causes huge headaches for the industry over there.
00:29:25
Speaker
Obviously, over here, you'd have those same headaches, provided it was allowed.
00:29:30
Speaker
Obviously, at the moment, it's not allowed, but it could well be.
00:29:32
Speaker
The next 12 months, it could be allowed.
00:29:35
Speaker
It's under review at the moment, isn't it?
00:29:37
Speaker
But it unlocks, you know, it's more than just the sum of the parts.
00:29:42
Speaker
If insect, the insect industry is to grow and there's been a phenomenal amount of investment in insect protein, whether it ends up being, you know, for poultry or even direct human consumption or aquaculture, it must have a place in...
00:30:00
Speaker
It is circular food systems.
00:30:02
Speaker
They're the most efficient converter of waste back into protein.
00:30:06
Speaker
How do we harness it?
00:30:07
Speaker
I think that's what we really need to focus on is looking at the circular economy and obviously meat and bone meal would play a huge part in that.
00:30:19
Speaker
And yeah, and I think that's just, it's just how do we get that across and consumer perception and consumer acceptance.
00:30:27
Speaker
I think, you know, you mentioned insects.
00:30:30
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:31
Speaker
My gut feeling is insects has less of a icky, you know, people are less against insects compared to meat and bone meal, maybe.
00:30:39
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:41
Speaker
That's just my, you know, my perception.
00:30:43
Speaker
Are we consumer-led or are we science-led?
00:30:45
Speaker
It's the consumer, the retail, isn't it?
00:30:48
Speaker
Is that the way it should be?
00:30:49
Speaker
Ideally, you say science, but you look at the hoo-ha just over the Bovar a few months or so ago, and it just takes one article, one mention, and someone to pick it up, and social media can take it completely down the wrong route.
00:31:08
Speaker
So you have to be so, so careful.
00:31:11
Speaker
So, you know, I think short term, I think very difficult to get bean bone meal in, insects maybe a bit quicker.
00:31:18
Speaker
So we are looking at other alternative proteins.
Research on Insect-Based Feed
00:31:22
Speaker
So, you know, you're looking at either the crops within the UK, you're looking at other sort of former foods, you know, sort of products from the human food that sort of,
00:31:32
Speaker
aren't suitable to go into the food, but then are very suitable for feed.
00:31:37
Speaker
So we're looking at other options like that.
00:31:40
Speaker
And I think that's led to a huge number of projects in that area.
00:31:44
Speaker
Going back to insects.
00:31:49
Speaker
So there's a huge interest in insects.
00:31:52
Speaker
The government's fully aware of that.
00:31:53
Speaker
It's funded several projects that are ongoing at the moment.
00:31:57
Speaker
Harper and Ottingham Trent have got various projects ongoing.
00:32:02
Speaker
We're going to be involved in a big project in the next 12 months.
00:32:07
Speaker
looking at some of the issues in terms of the regulation standards and also looking at how can we remove some of the blocks that are currently there into its use and also looking at rearing of insects and some of the blocks that some of the substrates
00:32:24
Speaker
Because that is a big, the big issue is what do you feed insects on?
00:32:27
Speaker
Because you don't want to feed them on food that could go straight into the animal food train.
00:32:33
Speaker
Anyway, you want to feed them on things that wouldn't be used.
00:32:36
Speaker
So you get that full circularity.
00:32:38
Speaker
So there's a lot of work being done.
00:32:41
Speaker
over at Varganen and Ferrer, for example, they've done lots of safety studies on various substrates.
00:32:51
Speaker
And there's more work needed, but there's a huge amount of data there that can already...
00:32:55
Speaker
help in terms of looking at how we can do our legislation and looking at policy to be able to make these insects more possible.
00:33:04
Speaker
Obviously, consumer acceptance will play a part again, but I think insects really do have a good chance of becoming one of the options of perhaps reducing our reliance on soya.
00:33:21
Speaker
But again, there won't be one silver bullet in terms of replacing soya because soya is the perfect source at the moment.
00:33:29
Speaker
It's going to be an amalgamation of insects, former foods, crops.
00:33:34
Speaker
Diminishing reliance on it.
00:33:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:36
Speaker
And also looking at dye formulations as well and making sure that you've got the right dye for the right bird at the right time and making sure that
00:33:46
Speaker
You know, you're looking at, you know, obviously they already, you know, they already sort of use individual amino acids, those synthetic amino acids, increasing the use of those, but also fine tuning your diet.
00:34:01
Speaker
So you are limiting the amount of amino acids you're actually feeding the birds.
00:34:05
Speaker
Split feeding always made a lot of sense to me.
00:34:09
Speaker
I never found a farmer that was willing to do, you know, or do the work.
00:34:14
Speaker
That sounds...
00:34:15
Speaker
dreadfully insulting to farmers and I apologise to any farmer that's listening, that is not what I mean.
00:34:19
Speaker
But there's clearly some complexity that's introduced by feeding a different diet at different times of the day.
00:34:26
Speaker
But certainly from a nutritional point of view as well as from a cost and then latterly from a crude protein and a soy reliance perspective, it ticks a lot of boxes.
00:34:37
Speaker
How do we get farmers in this country to do it in the same way that they're doing it in the States or wherever else it might be?
00:34:45
Speaker
It's very difficult to change practices.
00:34:48
Speaker
Isn't it just?
00:34:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:49
Speaker
So I think, yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
But I think that is one of the ways that we do need to look at, you know, to make sure that what we feed the birds meets their requirements.
00:34:58
Speaker
So what they excrete is less.
00:35:01
Speaker
So, you know, we reduce the pollution issues, but we also make the most of what we've got.
00:35:05
Speaker
We're making the most of the feed ingredients that we've got.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
Fascinating stuff.
00:35:11
Speaker
Going back to your question regarding protein and feed, we did write a protein report about 18 months ago that was released.
00:35:21
Speaker
So that is available on the new website, which will be launched very soon.
00:35:29
Speaker
I have been informed.
00:35:31
Speaker
But yeah, if it's not on the website, just drop me an email.
00:35:34
Speaker
A protein report.
00:35:35
Speaker
A protein report.
00:35:36
Speaker
Just a top line, Fiona, on that.
00:35:38
Speaker
What's in it?
00:35:40
Speaker
It was a report based... It was written by a scientist at SIUC and we sort of translated it for the... So I thought leadership reports were reports written by scientists...
00:35:55
Speaker
at our request, in a sort of a user-friendly way.
00:35:59
Speaker
So the science was there, but it was in a way that... Distilled for human consumption.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yes, and non-scientists could understand.
00:36:05
Speaker
So I suppose we were focusing on people that talk to government so the government could understand it, or people in industry that weren't nutritionists, but they could understand what the issues are and why it was so important.
00:36:15
Speaker
So the Protein Report was looking at the role of protein within feed.
00:36:21
Speaker
for ruminants and monogastrics.
00:36:24
Speaker
And it looked at ways of how the scientific knowledge of amino acids and the breakdown of amino acids and protein, synthesis within the animal.
00:36:34
Speaker
And obviously the excreta, it looked at some start to finish.
00:36:41
Speaker
So it looked at ways of mitigating the effect that inadequate diets would have on ruminants.
00:36:48
Speaker
on pollution.
00:36:49
Speaker
So that was the main focus.
00:36:52
Speaker
It was looking at the best way of feeding livestock with a sustainability background.
00:36:57
Speaker
It linked into net zero as a whole?
00:36:59
Speaker
It did link into net zero.
00:37:01
Speaker
Something I was definitely going to ask you guys about is within the projects, where's net zero?
00:37:06
Speaker
Is this massive spectre hanging over us all?
00:37:09
Speaker
What are you doing in the net zero space?
00:37:12
Speaker
So that, I mean, just to signpost, I guess another report, death by reports, I guess here, sorry.
00:37:18
Speaker
But that worked alongside that protein report was the nitrogen report as well, which looked at this, you know, particularly for the poultry and pork sectors, you know, NMP excretions and how do we optimize nutrient use efficiencies within those systems.
00:37:32
Speaker
But I guess maybe...
00:37:34
Speaker
From a net zero perspective, we have three reports on net zero and livestock from our legacy centre, I'll call it.
00:37:43
Speaker
It's a CL.
00:37:44
Speaker
As it's a naughty word now.
00:37:46
Speaker
Is it?
00:37:46
Speaker
Sorry.
00:37:49
Speaker
As long as not too many of our comms team are listening, we're good.
00:37:52
Speaker
So there were three reports there.
00:37:54
Speaker
First one looked at baselining sector-by-sector emissions.
00:37:58
Speaker
So naturally that came out with quite a sizeable report.
00:38:01
Speaker
picture for ruminants and you know our second report really looked at okay well here's the emissions and we ran a bit of a modelling exercise using farms and secondary data and that was again commissioned by a group of scientists and leading scientists around the UK
00:38:19
Speaker
And that second report really highlighted sector by sector.
00:38:22
Speaker
These are the animal feed and manure related emissions strategies that you can take place to reduce your emissions and what those exact emissions looked like when implemented in synchrony.
00:38:36
Speaker
So for instance, feed efficiency and lower crude protein levels alongside anaerobic digestion or manure management practices that might kind of optimize that.
00:38:48
Speaker
I think the big picture that came out in, particularly for the poultry sector and through that modelling exercise was that feed production, including land use change, was over 80% of carbon footprints from a farm.
Impact of Soy and Emissions in Poultry Farming
00:39:01
Speaker
So, you know, naturally we're going to gravitate towards the biggest number and the biggest number is land use change and a lot of that is associated with soya.
00:39:10
Speaker
Now, I guess I don't want to go back on the soya topic because we've kind of covered it a little bit, but
00:39:16
Speaker
This is a kind of prime example of how we make decisions based on a single metric and the metric here being carbon.
00:39:23
Speaker
So, you know, for a farm, if there's no way of replacing that crude protein through soya, then, you know, there's going to be a drop off and trade offs around, um,
00:39:33
Speaker
you know, around welfare and productivity that might also impact carbon emissions.
00:39:40
Speaker
So we can't for sure say that by reducing all of these things.
00:39:44
Speaker
I think you can.
00:39:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:39:46
Speaker
My experience has been in removal of soy from poultry diets, from layer diets.
00:39:50
Speaker
Again, apologies to all those broiler producers and growers shaking their fists going, shut up, you're talking about layers, not broilers.
00:39:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:59
Speaker
But it absolutely can.
00:40:01
Speaker
The challenge is, forgive the pun, but a chicken and egg one of supply of the raw materials that we could ably be growing in this country, but we don't, that could be going into the layer diet.
00:40:11
Speaker
And using those raw materials, so peas and beans and rapeseed meal, as well as sunflower, admittedly, imported, but that balance could wholly replace fruits.
00:40:22
Speaker
It may not be cost neutral and it may be at the expense of the very, very top end of yield, be it number or be it size, but it's definitely not out with.
00:40:35
Speaker
The only challenge is people don't grow what we could be using as these raw material supplies because there isn't the demand.
00:40:43
Speaker
If we can create the demand and what we need is then the signal from the market to say,
00:40:48
Speaker
I don't want my egg supply chain to be sourcing X proportion of soy from abroad.
00:40:56
Speaker
I want to be using Y proportion of these ingredients, even if it was five years out.
00:41:01
Speaker
If we could get those signals, we could surely build the supply chain.
00:41:06
Speaker
Could we not?
00:41:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:41:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:41:08
Speaker
I think- So what's stopping us?
00:41:10
Speaker
Who's not signing up to that?
00:41:13
Speaker
How do we get them to do it?
00:41:15
Speaker
I think some of it is the fact that the agronomy industry, want a better word, is not totally linked up to the feed industry.
00:41:25
Speaker
There's a gap there.
00:41:26
Speaker
And what the agronomists are growing, what they think is good to grow in the UK, is not always the best for animal feed and, you know...
00:41:34
Speaker
But is the economy industry not there to support the arable farmers who are there to produce for the market?
00:41:40
Speaker
And the market is a global one for cereals.
00:41:44
Speaker
And when they're not producing cereals, they're producing break crops that are something of a compromise.
00:41:49
Speaker
And does it get them back to producing the mainstay of the farm?
00:41:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:53
Speaker
They still focus on their main market, which if you look at your peas and beans, especially peas, it tends to be for humans.
00:42:02
Speaker
And therefore, that's where it goes.
00:42:04
Speaker
That's where they can make, obviously, a lot more money.
00:42:07
Speaker
And quite often, the breed of peas used might not be the best to be used in animal feed.
00:42:13
Speaker
So that...
00:42:15
Speaker
that is a difficult one because they'll never get the same price for the peas.
00:42:19
Speaker
So why will they invest in growing crops just for the feed industry?
00:42:26
Speaker
The feed typically gets what doesn't meet the requirements for the food industry or is in excess.
00:42:33
Speaker
That's always been the issue with some of the nutritional value of some of the crops within the UK that ends up in animal feed.
00:42:43
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:42:45
Speaker
It's that difficult balance.
00:42:46
Speaker
It's just so much of the market you need to be looking at changing to possibly change that.
00:42:53
Speaker
And that's been as long as I've been in the industry.
00:42:55
Speaker
That takes you back to my PhD.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, well, absolutely.
00:42:58
Speaker
You know, looking at genetics of wheat.
00:43:01
Speaker
But our food systems are based on exit of World War II strategies.
00:43:05
Speaker
They are based on productivity at all costs.
00:43:08
Speaker
And the question is whether or not that will always be the case.
00:43:12
Speaker
And it sort of feels that we're at or we're fast approaching a turning point where we try and take a slightly wider approach.
00:43:21
Speaker
wider view.
Research Gaps and Emissions Management in Poultry
00:43:23
Speaker
Is there anything in your, when you look at the number of projects, and I get that that's a lot, and I get that since the turn of this year, it's a lot more by the sounds of things, which is a great sign.
00:43:32
Speaker
It has to be a really good sign that there are more people signing up for more projects and you've got more success in the bids that you're putting forward.
00:43:40
Speaker
So, you know, that's fantastic.
00:43:42
Speaker
But when you look at all the projects that you're involved with, do you identify any gaps?
00:43:46
Speaker
Are there things in
00:43:47
Speaker
our poultry industry that you look at and think, well, why are we not doing more research?
00:43:51
Speaker
What could we be doing to further our resilience in the face of that challenge?
00:43:58
Speaker
I think Fiona's covered, I guess, a lot of the novel on alternative proteins and the co-products.
00:44:03
Speaker
And, you know, there's so much more we can do in the feed space.
00:44:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:44:08
Speaker
And we can keep doing it.
00:44:08
Speaker
We need to keep doing it.
00:44:10
Speaker
I guess for manure management, you know, which I mentioned before, over 80% of emissions of carbon footprint tends to be from the feed.
00:44:20
Speaker
But for manure management,
00:44:23
Speaker
in terms of homegrown emissions are national inventory.
00:44:25
Speaker
That's nitrous oxide emissions, which is a very potent greenhouse gas, you know, 270 times more powerful than carbon dioxide, and that's from manure management.
00:44:34
Speaker
So there's lots more we can do at scale within that space.
00:44:40
Speaker
I would also add, and it's probably a less favourable one, particularly from the farmer's point of view, but we need to better measure what is going on on the farm in terms of, not in a controlling way, in an empowering way, so understanding where the losses are in the system.
00:44:55
Speaker
So, you know, if I'm putting feed in and I'm
00:44:58
Speaker
manure's coming out, you know, quite simple equation, you know, where are those losses going?
00:45:03
Speaker
There's obviously high profile cases in terms of the River Wye and pollution and over in Loch Ness and Northern Ireland have brought in quite, you know, strict kind of measurement projects to really monitor
00:45:17
Speaker
what's going on in that local environment so i think tools that we can use to to measure monitor um report and verify um which can really help us value what those ecosystems look like and and really kind of enable farmers to make the right decisions that optimize productivity and also reduce the the sort of environmental impact as well at least that's sort of my my wish list i don't know about you fiona
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think there are some gaps in the assessment of emissions.
00:45:49
Speaker
And that leads on to knock-on effect of what could we do to help to mitigate the emissions?
00:45:54
Speaker
Is there something we can add to the feed?
00:45:55
Speaker
Obviously, we've seen some work on the methane side.
00:46:00
Speaker
In ruminants.
00:46:01
Speaker
In ruminants, yeah.
00:46:02
Speaker
And we're looking at various feed additives and other formulations to mitigate on the pig and poultry side.
00:46:12
Speaker
But there is an issue with how we actually measure and assess reliably.
00:46:17
Speaker
And there's no real standard.
00:46:22
Speaker
I know there are various discussions going on with different organisations, but a member comes to the office, what do I do?
00:46:29
Speaker
I have this additive, what do I do to prove that it works?
00:46:32
Speaker
And that is a gap because there isn't a standard there to measure easily against.
00:46:41
Speaker
We can measure quite easily.
00:46:44
Speaker
So using the IPCC, Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change, which is all the scientific consensus of global agreements and everything around climate science, we know we can do international figures and emission factors, which is what you multiply to get your carbon footprint.
00:47:06
Speaker
I think the gap that we have is this standardization, harmonization of tier two and three data, which is really kind of national and more local scale.
00:47:17
Speaker
Precisely for free range.
00:47:19
Speaker
That's something that is a business practice that is...
00:47:24
Speaker
perhaps more risky perhaps in the current climate but it's an additional business practice that might be promoting better soil health which could potentially optimize soil carbon and there's all these other components that come with it and in a biological dynamic system it's very difficult to measure that.
00:47:40
Speaker
You take manufacturing for instance it's a little bit more straightforward.
00:47:45
Speaker
It's obviously nuances everywhere but
00:47:47
Speaker
We haven't quite worked out in agriculture the best way, and that's fine.
00:47:51
Speaker
No two farms are the same.
00:47:52
Speaker
But as long as we have that baseline, you can still, you know, the objective from a farmer getting a carbon footprint is to try and optimize business practices as well as reduce emissions as kind of a co-product of that, or byproduct, sorry.
00:48:07
Speaker
So, you know, as long as we're able to measure the first instance and really kind of reduce, you know, for me, that's where the power is.
00:48:13
Speaker
It's a kind of knowledge exchange tool.
00:48:16
Speaker
So if there's a farmer out there or a business that's out there that's interested in increasing the sensitivity of their emissions or their losses reporting, get in touch.
00:48:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:48:28
Speaker
That's the message.
00:48:29
Speaker
We can signpost you to some of the leading carbon calculators there on farm perspective.
00:48:33
Speaker
But yeah, a lot of work being done there.
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:37
Speaker
I was going to ask you about two things.
00:48:39
Speaker
Firstly, I hope you might mention disease, because when you look at resilience and threats to poultry, avian flu is one of the AIs I wanted to talk to you about.
00:48:50
Speaker
If I had an AI squared list, then of course artificial intelligence would also be on it.
00:48:56
Speaker
For the ruminants out there, I'm aware that there's such a thing as artificial insemination, but we'll leave that for another day.
Biosecurity, Avian Flu, and Research Gaps
00:49:02
Speaker
But if we talk about bird flu for a moment,
00:49:06
Speaker
Are there any projects that you're involved with or that you've seen bringing forward?
00:49:12
Speaker
I don't know, conversations either about biosecurity or about vaccination in response protection.
00:49:18
Speaker
Any thoughts?
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah, not working directly on any projects at the moment, but we have been involved in various discussions and various projects in the past.
00:49:30
Speaker
And we did work with Professor Bowden from Edinburgh University on an Avenida Frenza-Bowden-Frenza report that came out April 23.
00:49:43
Speaker
I don't think.
00:49:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
It's still available.
00:49:47
Speaker
And that it went through a lot of the science behind it and the issues, more practical issues.
00:49:56
Speaker
Because obviously, again, like with all of our reports, it's for everyone.
00:50:01
Speaker
So the science was there, but in a very understandable manner.
00:50:05
Speaker
And obviously it went through the research.
00:50:08
Speaker
basics of the biosecurity, the impact, the effect of the backyard, poultry reavers as well.
00:50:21
Speaker
And we were able to use a lot of her knowledge because she had a lot of work with the Scottish government looking at their response to avian influenza.
00:50:32
Speaker
So she was really good at being able to vocalise avian
00:50:36
Speaker
you know, what the issues are from both sides and also, you know, the importance of biosecurity and obviously, you know, the actual sort of human effect that it has, you know, when your farm is affected as well, you know, it sort of covers that area as well.
00:50:59
Speaker
And also some of the gaps, you know, some of the research gaps that are there, so they were sort of highlighted towards the end of the report,
00:51:06
Speaker
Where are those gaps in terms of, you know, the housing, you know, the wild bird influence, you know, vermin as well, you know, and all those issues, you know, and things to look for.
00:51:20
Speaker
So the practical side, but also what we can do long term.
00:51:24
Speaker
What do we need to be thinking about?
00:51:25
Speaker
Because bird flu, I know last year was a quiet year.
00:51:28
Speaker
This year, it seems, you know,
00:51:32
Speaker
Well, yeah.
00:51:33
Speaker
It's still too... Early to tell, but it's ravenous so far, isn't it?
00:51:36
Speaker
It is.
00:51:37
Speaker
And obviously, we have had that horrendous culling last week, unfortunately.
00:51:43
Speaker
So it's a very difficult and emotive...
00:51:48
Speaker
time, you know, for everyone involved in the industry.
00:51:53
Speaker
But that report does highlight some of what we can do, you know, to mitigate and also talking, you know, to sort of the researchers on the welfare and housing side.
00:52:06
Speaker
What can we do for...
00:52:07
Speaker
in terms of the knock-on effect from housing orders and looking at behavioural impact and how we can mitigate some of the side effects of birds used to being outdoors suddenly brought indoors.
00:52:21
Speaker
And that's a research gap that has been highlighted and also has been looked at now by various welfare scientists.
00:52:29
Speaker
And also looking at what they've done in Europe and looking at different housing systems, and is that a route that we could possibly take?
00:52:39
Speaker
So, yes, it was a really, really, really good summary report that Lisa did.
00:52:43
Speaker
I think if we're looking at science and how science can lead an industry forward, then, you know, combating disease and something that now feels endemic, certainly rumbling on across the world, that's got to be able to thought on every participant in the market's agenda.
AI Applications and Risks in Agriculture
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:04
Speaker
I was going to ask you about AI, but this time artificial intelligence.
00:53:10
Speaker
Oxford Farming Conference earlier in the month, that was on the topic about harnessing that.
00:53:15
Speaker
I mean, does it feature in part of your day-to-day work?
00:53:21
Speaker
Are you using AI?
00:53:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's a big topic as well to unpick.
00:53:26
Speaker
It means different things to different people.
00:53:28
Speaker
It does.
00:53:28
Speaker
I mean, prime example, the life sort of sector, you mentioned before, it's probably further down the pecking order, isn't it?
00:53:34
Speaker
But I think it's got the potential to be absolutely transformational for every part of our life.
00:53:41
Speaker
um i mean ai and the way in which it's been used within agri-tech um is a lot around kind of machine learning and and particularly large language models so big you know data processing um and we've used it for instance um
00:53:59
Speaker
in a project where we were taking visual, taking sort of camera, taking photographs even is the word I'm looking for, of hooves, of dairy hooves, as they're coming through to try and get an understanding of lesions and the prevalence of lesions.
00:54:16
Speaker
So then we can, you know, directly...
00:54:20
Speaker
plug that into a machine learning model where we're able to sort of early identification.
00:54:25
Speaker
So even before lameness, before lameness there are lesions.
00:54:28
Speaker
There are lesions, yeah, exactly.
00:54:30
Speaker
And the same can be said, and I think is being applied in the poultry sector to listen to behavioral patterns in the flock, so to try and process all of that data.
00:54:40
Speaker
Prior to this we would have
00:54:42
Speaker
know multiple researchers sort of plugging those numbers or looking at the the images to try and understand those behaviors now we can plug that into a model yeah we're able to try and deliver kind of actionable insights so i think it's really around this precision farming yeah and data driven data that's the thing i mean you go you go back only 10 years and the paucity of data i'd imagine was was very very different to today now it feels as though
00:55:07
Speaker
There's a bit of an arms race to gather farm data.
00:55:13
Speaker
Very, very difficult for people to try and get round every farm with pen and paper or clipboards in the old fashioned way and take notes.
00:55:22
Speaker
And we're asking more and more of farmers to put data into a variety of different systems, SAS models, etc.
00:55:33
Speaker
just to give the raw material for these kind of technologies, whether it's machine learning, as you say, or AI, to actually then try and derive some learning from it.
00:55:46
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:55:48
Speaker
I think the opportunities are pretty clear, as you mentioned.
00:55:53
Speaker
I think the risks there, you know,
00:55:56
Speaker
we're overburdening farmers with data generally, various different platforms and softwares that they're having to use and plug stuff in.
00:56:05
Speaker
You're overburdening in the sense of, away from your day to day, how much are you then taking?
00:56:09
Speaker
You hear from farmers every time I speak to them is they're spending more and more time on administrative tasks.
00:56:15
Speaker
And hopefully AI, in a roundabout way, can actually streamline some of those efficiencies.
00:56:21
Speaker
Whether AI or technology, certainly technology sensors.
00:56:23
Speaker
In some form, yeah.
00:56:24
Speaker
But I think that the other thing to explore there is the loss of community and cultural knowledge through these large kind of data models because we're plugging things in and the model can only spit out the data that's put in.
00:56:39
Speaker
So if the data is incorrect in some format, then we're just kind of perpetuating a constant cycle of knowledge, which is perhaps not quite the truth that a farmer might see.
00:56:52
Speaker
So I think it's really crucial that we balance it in the right way.
00:56:54
Speaker
And I guess from a net zero perspective, you're seeing all of this data processing in huge servers, and those servers are outstripping energy demand beyond anything we've seen before.
00:57:07
Speaker
So you've got servers over in China and the US that are recommissioning coal mines to deal with some of these data processing.
00:57:16
Speaker
And that's a risk we need to try and talk about because –
00:57:19
Speaker
you know, the pursuit of net zero, the pursuit of sustainability can't be at the expense of kind of more constant growth, which we're not able to withstand.
Innovative Farming Practices and Engagement with Agritech
00:57:31
Speaker
If I'm a farmer and I've got an idea...
00:57:34
Speaker
I'm not sure it's going to make commercial reality for the entire industry, but I'm committed to either using my own farm or the facilities that you might have to establish whether my idea has got legs.
00:57:48
Speaker
Again, how do I get involved?
00:57:51
Speaker
What can I do?
00:57:51
Speaker
No, the first thing to do would be to come to us and we would listen to your idea and we would assess as to what we thought would be the next steps.
00:58:04
Speaker
So whether it would be, depending on what it is and how close to...
00:58:11
Speaker
to use it is, it would be a case of, well, does it need further development?
00:58:17
Speaker
In which case we may look at one of our sort of research capabilities.
00:58:21
Speaker
So we've got three poultry facilities.
00:58:25
Speaker
We've got a large house up at SIC Alamure where we can do multi-pan studies.
00:58:33
Speaker
So if we seem to go in the feed, that's the sort of place we would run research.
00:58:39
Speaker
replicate studies on broilers and also small turkeys.
00:58:45
Speaker
They also have facilities there for layer hens.
00:58:48
Speaker
So they've got a large layer hen facility and some smaller rooms where you can do sort of small scales.
00:58:55
Speaker
So if it's a very, I'm really not sure what, if it's going to work or not, you can get a few birds and just test it.
00:59:01
Speaker
So it's perfect, perfect place there.
00:59:04
Speaker
What about something bigger than that?
00:59:06
Speaker
What's the next step?
00:59:07
Speaker
The next step then would be looking at our farm network and looking at it on farm.
00:59:13
Speaker
I mean, is it even possible to use my own farm if I've got a couple of sheds?
00:59:17
Speaker
Can I have control and a kind of trouble?
00:59:20
Speaker
We can always help and advise in setting up a study.
00:59:24
Speaker
If you've got several houses, so you can do a with and without.
00:59:27
Speaker
Obviously, it really depends on what the idea is.
00:59:30
Speaker
If it's a feed, it follows all the feed regulations and all the welfare regulations.
00:59:36
Speaker
There's no reason why we can't just try it on your farm.
00:59:41
Speaker
So going back to our other sort of research facilities, at Bristol we have an eight-room small facility, typically used for layers because you can replicate the environment.
00:59:54
Speaker
How many birds are we talking about?
00:59:55
Speaker
We're talking about one to two hundred, depending on the age of the bird and if you're going to put them in pens within that room or if they're going to have the whole room.
01:00:06
Speaker
Yes, so that's where we could do some more environmental work there as well, but also look at different behaviour mitigations.
01:00:15
Speaker
If you've got something that you think, oh, the birds love this, you know, it really just helped to relieve stress and boredom.
01:00:21
Speaker
It would be that sort of facility there.
01:00:24
Speaker
And finally, we've also got sort of more technologically advanced facility up at Newcastle, up at Cockle Park, where it's, you know, you've got cameras and, you know, they can look at, really look at, you know, do a lot of behavioural work, looking at how birds, you know, birds, you know, behave at different, you know, different, you know, different mitigations or different housing, you know, different, make a look at different feeders.
01:00:49
Speaker
So, it's a complete, depending on what you wanted to do.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:51
Speaker
They've got those cameras that can watch different groups of birds at different times and look at how they respond to the technology.
01:01:00
Speaker
So they are our main sort of three research facilities.
01:01:04
Speaker
And then obviously we link to the Farm Network.
01:01:07
Speaker
Are you working with farmers directly on their own premises, using their farms as the basis for research at the moment?
01:01:14
Speaker
We have done.
01:01:16
Speaker
That's something that we do.
01:01:18
Speaker
We are doing more of, especially with the Farm Network now.
01:01:22
Speaker
CL didn't really work.
01:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, we were probably a bit more on the kind of...
01:01:27
Speaker
I call it the hard end of research and development.
01:01:29
Speaker
So really kind of studying animals in a controlled environment.
01:01:33
Speaker
And I think the beauty of the merger, if I can plug it again in working together, is that we have taken on this farm network, which is...
01:01:43
Speaker
Almost that applied and, you know, really working with farmers and a group of farmers across a range of different sectors and mixed enterprises.
01:01:52
Speaker
And we have 24 farms there, which, you know, range all the way from the top of Scotland down to, you know, the southwest.
01:01:59
Speaker
24 across all species in all sectors?
01:02:01
Speaker
We're pretty much well covered across all species.
01:02:03
Speaker
Again, you know, sort of symbolises the...
01:02:08
Speaker
The forgotten sector in poultry, we only have one, which is a free-lain... But it's a start.
01:02:13
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:02:14
Speaker
It's one of our most innovative farms as well in Scotland.
01:02:17
Speaker
They've got free-range eggs and arable, 32,000 free-range laying hens, 190 hectares of arable land.
01:02:27
Speaker
On their protein, they've reduced reliance on imported feed by producing homegrown protein.
01:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, we talked about that earlier.
01:02:33
Speaker
They've measured that as well, so they've got a carbon footprint.
01:02:36
Speaker
They've achieved 185 tonne CO2 equivalent annual reduction through this.
01:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:42
Speaker
Which is huge.
01:02:43
Speaker
I'm thinking if I put my egg base hat on doing a lot of carbon footprinting on farms as a proportion, that's a significant reduction.
01:02:50
Speaker
They've also, through various capital grants and investment that we have made through the centre, they've been able to put in a biomass boiler, wind turbines, solar panels, battery storage,
01:03:03
Speaker
They're also looking at mint till and cover crops and they're measuring biodiversity and all these various things.
01:03:08
Speaker
And they've planted eight kilometres of new hedges.
01:03:10
Speaker
Where's the case study for this farm?
01:03:12
Speaker
This is incredible.
01:03:13
Speaker
This is incredible.
01:03:15
Speaker
And I think that's the point of the farm network is we're really looking at that applied research.
01:03:19
Speaker
So,
01:03:20
Speaker
In practice, what do these technologies do?
01:03:22
Speaker
How can they support farmers?
01:03:24
Speaker
And how can we translate that perhaps to policy, to action, to support businesses?
01:03:29
Speaker
So we're now covering, obviously from our CL days, probably a little bit more on the hard research and development, which is really important because we need to unlock new ideas and new potential.
01:03:39
Speaker
But we're also working at that farmer end where we're working with them.
01:03:42
Speaker
And that farm network, I won't speak for our farms team because I know at the minute
01:03:46
Speaker
And this is, you know, a good thing, I guess, is they're very over capacity.
01:03:50
Speaker
They won't mind me saying, but that is a growing team.
01:03:53
Speaker
And that is, you know, a strategic aim for the businesses to try and grow that.
01:03:58
Speaker
So you need to grow your team, but you've also, you've got 24 farms, you've got one poultry farm.
01:04:01
Speaker
How many do you want?
01:04:03
Speaker
Oh, I can't say because I had farms might tell me off, but I think, yeah, we're always looking for keen farmers.
01:04:09
Speaker
Because that poultry farm you've described, as phenomenal as they sound, I guarantee you they're not unique or that there's nothing there that could not be adopted, replicated or, you know, a different version of something innovative going on elsewhere.
01:04:24
Speaker
There are plenty of examples of incredible practice.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:28
Speaker
that breaks the mould going on in the poultry farms that I've seen in this country.
01:04:31
Speaker
It's just giving them somewhere to come together to say, look, this is the art of the possible.
01:04:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:36
Speaker
And I think that's it.
01:04:37
Speaker
It's that peer-to-peer learning.
01:04:39
Speaker
Come and have a look at this farm.
01:04:40
Speaker
Oh, actually, we did a lot of that already.
01:04:42
Speaker
We're just not shouting about it.
01:04:43
Speaker
And I think it's the storytelling component of agriculture that we've really not got down to a T because there is a lot of good things going on.
01:04:50
Speaker
Knowledge transfer doesn't have to be in heavy, heavy science as a backdrop.
01:04:54
Speaker
Let's just share best practice.
01:04:57
Speaker
So, you know, it's got a clear message out there, either to farmers or to those that are managing collectives of farms.
01:05:02
Speaker
If you've got practices such as these going on in your network, bring it to light.
01:05:08
Speaker
Bring it forward to the team here at UK AgriTech Centre.
01:05:13
Speaker
And let's see if we can't get more people deploying these techniques.
01:05:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what we've, you know, we have recently been working on a farmer survey as well, looking at the best way of, you know, working with farmers and getting, you know, and getting best practice, you know, specifically,
01:05:32
Speaker
disseminated so they've got a chance to show off what they do but also to learn from what each other do and that is part of us moving forward and I really hope that we can get more poultry farms involved so that we can learn from each other and also obviously improve the poultry industry as a whole.
01:05:56
Speaker
As kind of closing remarks then as we wind up the episode, we've covered an awful lot of ground.
Future Focus and Closing Remarks
01:06:01
Speaker
We talked about the success, particularly this year that you've experienced the growth curve that you're on.
01:06:09
Speaker
As you look further ahead on your own horizons, what do you see coming for the rest of 2025 and beyond?
01:06:19
Speaker
Fiona, going to put that on the spot.
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
01:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot to look forward to.
01:06:24
Speaker
There's a lot still to do.
01:06:26
Speaker
And I think a big focus will be on looking at the alternative proteins.
01:06:32
Speaker
Obviously, we've got various government initiatives in terms of funding for various centres in that area at the moment.
01:06:40
Speaker
And I think it's looking at ways to improve the options that we have for alternative proteins, but also
01:06:50
Speaker
things like legislation and acceptability, consumer acceptability.
01:06:55
Speaker
There's a lot of work to be done there, but I think we are starting to break the back of it, but there's still a lot to be done.
01:07:02
Speaker
So that is the next 12 months or so.
01:07:04
Speaker
There's going to be a lot in that area.
01:07:06
Speaker
And also I've mentioned farmer adoption.
01:07:09
Speaker
That is really the key for the next 12, 24 months.
01:07:12
Speaker
As I say, it's no good having all these new technologies if they just stop at the technology stage.
01:07:19
Speaker
They don't actually...
01:07:20
Speaker
become utilised and become normal.
01:07:23
Speaker
The good technology should be out there and should be being used.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:29
Speaker
Paddy, anything to add?
01:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think from a research perspective, absolutely.
01:07:34
Speaker
I mean, we're always going to be focusing on the alternative proteins and particularly as input costs are rising, this is a real low-hanging fruit but a very difficult one to crack.
01:07:46
Speaker
uh i think beyond that you know i it's it's hard to avoid and not to end on a doom no but it's hard to avoid the impacts of climate change yeah um globally and in the uk so we need to understand stresses we need to stand you know heat stress how we can mitigate some of those production side um challenges and risks um
01:08:09
Speaker
So that's one area.
01:08:11
Speaker
I think it'd be great also to try and carbon footprint as many farms as we can.
01:08:15
Speaker
So we've got that baseline and we know where we're working with.
01:08:18
Speaker
In terms of business support and how we're kind of framing some of our support in the sustainability team, at least, is, you know, general sustainability advice and research support.
01:08:29
Speaker
So, you know, reach out to us, explore membership options, but also, you know, reach out regardless.
01:08:36
Speaker
And we, you know, we can help, you know,
01:08:39
Speaker
deliver a kind of bespoke set of services there to support on your sustainability strategy and design.
01:08:46
Speaker
So that's everything from aligning some of your data frameworks in the first end to maybe some of your compliance-based sustainability mechanisms like TCFD and all the other acronyms that we know about to curating a research pipeline that helps you accelerate maybe your net zero pathway.
01:09:05
Speaker
So everything's sort of in between.
01:09:07
Speaker
That's a great message to end on.
01:09:10
Speaker
My thanks to Paddy Tarback and to Dr Fiona Short for joining us on the Sustainability Podcast this afternoon.
01:09:18
Speaker
Funding calls are coming out all of the time.
01:09:20
Speaker
There'll be more released as the year goes on.
01:09:23
Speaker
So if you're a farmer or a business in the supply chain interested in research and development and in learning how the UK AgriTech Centre works,
01:09:34
Speaker
can help you bring together your business and academia to access the public funding that's available, then please do get in touch and we'll put details in the link and to their website down below, as they say.
01:09:49
Speaker
Thank you.