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E7 Poultry Network Sustainability Hub: “LCA, Additives and Impact: Alltech Breaks It Down”
32 Plays3 days ago
In this episode of the Sustainability Hub podcast, host Tom Willings is joined by Dr Harriet Walker and Jim Wynne from Alltech to explore how science, data, and nutrition are driving both performance and sustainability in poultry production.
Dr Walker shares her journey into the poultry industry, from an academic project in broiler nutrition to her current role as poultry technical specialist at Alltech.
She discusses the company's commitment to gut health and performance through products like Actigen, Bioplex, and Biomos, and explains how rigorous scientific meta-analyses have demonstrated improvements in feed conversion, egg production, mortality, and eggshell strength.
These gains, while incremental, can significantly enhance farm profitability and sustainability—especially when considered at scale.
Jim Wynne, from Alltech's environmental footprinting division ECO2, details how lifecycle analysis (LCA) provides a full-chain view of emissions - from hatchery to breeder to processing plant.
He explains how ECO2 has grown from a small UK dairy-focused start-up to a globally certified footprinting operation covering poultry, aqua, and pet food sectors.
Jim and his team help producers and retailers model emissions data using tools like PowerBI dashboards to benchmark and improve performance across supply chains.
The conversation highlights how environmental sustainability and animal performance are intertwined.
By improving gut health and nutrient absorption – particularly through more bioavailable organic minerals – farmers can achieve better feed efficiency, longer laying cycles, and lower mortality.
These outcomes reduce the environmental impact per unit of output while increasing profitability.
A 2% improvement in FCR or egg production, for example, can yield meaningful reductions in emissions and notable financial returns when applied across large flocks.
Harriet and Jim also touch on consumer expectations, retailer pressures, and growing interest from producers in environmental data – often driven by the need for green loan eligibility.
The discussion explores the challenges of transitioning away from high-soy diets, with new Alltech trials demonstrating how alternative proteins, such as peas, beans, lupins, and sunflowers, when combined with targeted feed additives, can maintain performance while reducing soy-related emissions by up to 10%.
They also explore regional nuances, comparing sustainability motivations across global markets, and the role of Alltech's "Planet of Plenty" vision in promoting science-backed agricultural improvement.
With roots in yeast fermentation and brewing, Alltech has maintained a family-owned business culture while scaling to over 5,000 employees worldwide.
Initiatives like internal skill-sharing challenges and community fundraising add a human element to a company built on complex science and global ambition.
The episode closes with reflections on the future – ranging from reduced antibiotic use to more holistic formulation of diets based on updated mineral science.
Whether the goal is improving food safety, enabling longer lay cycles, or reducing phosphorus in manure, the central message is clear: incremental gains in nutrition and footprinting deliver compounded benefits for animals, producers, and the planet.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Poultry Network Sustainability Hub podcast, sponsored by Moypark, UK Agritech Centre, Elanco, Trow Nutrition, Hendrix Genetics, Aviagen and Alltech.
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome back to the Sustainability Hub podcast brought to you by Poultry Network. My name is Tom Willings and today we're joined by Alltech. So Dr. Harriet Walker and Jim Wynn, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:29
Speaker
Thanks.
Harriet Walker's Journey into Poultry Industry
00:00:30
Speaker
ah Yeah, tell us tell us about yourself to start with. After can end this first. Yeah, so as anybody probably in the poultry industry, kind of fell into it.
00:00:42
Speaker
um I started Nottingham University um doing animal science. And in my last year, I had to do a third year project.
00:00:54
Speaker
And it happened to be in poultry nutrition. and Broilers being fed alternative animals. protein sources. And at the end of that, I kind of thought, I quite like this one. A bit more of it.
00:01:05
Speaker
did Did you think you were going to enjoy it? Did you feel like you feel like you got the short straw when you were given the poultry gig on year three? Maybe a little bit, because I put my name down for poultry, pig and um ah cattle and got poultry. but actually, it was really good. It was with Nell and Julian Wiseman at Nottingham University. They were lovely. um And it was really hands on.
00:01:29
Speaker
And then at the end of that, they kind of said, oh, there was a PhD going on Nottingham Trent University. you may as well, like, do want to apply for it?
Harriet's Role at Alltech
00:01:38
Speaker
So i applied for it and luckily got it. um And then that was, you know, starting my love of doing research.
00:01:46
Speaker
um That was using and one of Alltech's products um in broilers. So it was Actogen, looking gut health. welfare and performance um and yeah that's kind of where it all started um and where actually I learned a lot about the industry um because it was had three months of industry experience with it um and it was you know going out to conferences have you to really enjoyed that yeah and And today you're a poultry specialist in the technical yeah department.
00:02:20
Speaker
you know whats what's your what's your What's your remit today? what do you do So my remit today is, so I came into Alltech in the gut health and platform. So you're really taking over um the kind of research on the poultry side from a European point of view, um any technical help.
00:02:38
Speaker
And then as my... um knowledge of the products increased, I've now transitioned onto the technical um group where I cover all of the poultry products that we sell and help with research and help with technical problems and kind of that side of things.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah. but Sounds good. Sounds good. and And I have to say, in preparation for today's recording, I've never received the depth of information, the scientific papers that you furnish me with to try and try and read and
Jim Wynn's Background and Role at Alltech
00:03:08
Speaker
try and understand. most of the Most of the words I can't even read, let alone understand. Yeah. We've got science coming out of our ears. so have I now. But yeah you mentioned Actogen and was it Bioplex and Biomos? We're going to talk a lot about that a bit a bit later on. But also in those papers is LCA, Life Cycle Analysis. Jim, and I guess that's where you come
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So how I got into all tech, a long story, and it's seems such a long time ago since since I yeah ah started. Graduated from Harper Adams University in 2007.
00:03:42
Speaker
seven Went into rural surveying for two years. Did it badly. And then joined... um at the time it was easier to say I said Cheshire based dairy farm and entrepreneur that some decided to start his own footprinting company um I joined a year later in 2010 where we um started footprinting for some of the leading processes in the dairy industry and eventually moved on to beef.
00:04:14
Speaker
And then, lo and behold, five years down the line, Alltech came knocking on door and they um wanted to see if they could buy the company
Alltech's Sustainability and Footprinting Efforts
00:04:21
Speaker
out. And since since acquisition, we've moved into the space of footprinting monogastrix, aqua, pet industry, exploring other smaller ruminants such as goat,
00:04:34
Speaker
and then of laterally going on to this footprinting processing facilities such as feed mills pet foods processing and pack centers biogas units and really looking at um say example laying farm you've got pullets coming onto the farm one footprint the pullet side why not go back to as far as the hatchery and then go back even further and go to the breeding rearing side of things so really footprints in that whole cycle which is which is really amazing.
00:05:01
Speaker
yeah There can't be anyone that's been in it longer. 2010, you were a visionary at that point, as as was the founder of eCO2 prior to Alltech's ownership, of course. But but you know i've I've not met anyone that's been in and the world of footprinting for as as long as as you have. Yeah, it's...
00:05:19
Speaker
You tend to just need to just remind yourself how long you've you've been into it and and just seeing how those services developed um over the last 15 or so years is really something really.
00:05:31
Speaker
But it all goes down to the people that work with you as well. We've got a fantastic team at Stanford. We've gone from just having someone or couple of people that do everything from modelling to reporting to answering the phone calls, e etc. Now we've got a designated team that We'll focus on key account relationships. We'll look after the models.
00:05:51
Speaker
got two or three guys in the office that do a fantastic job at making the models as certified to carbon trust annually, which is no bean feed, and it's getting
Collaboration between Alltech and ECO2
00:05:59
Speaker
harder. We've got team that actually are responsible for visualisation of data.
00:06:04
Speaker
So you know what may be great looking for from a farmer's point of view, we've got to do a lovely eight-sided report, but we're also getting our results now on PowerBIs that so maybe a retailer or packer can then look at multitude of farmers see who's doing the the best see what top 10% are telling us see what the bottom 10% are not doing in some instances and how they can be supported more and then we've got the business support team that would just prop up the the whole running of the of the operation as well um so it's a big a big team effort big team effort done by so few actually so there's 15 full-time employees at Alltech ECO2 and they do an awful lot to be honest
00:06:43
Speaker
So a great shout out to your to your colleagues. how How much interaction is there between Alltech on the product and the science? Because Alltech's an enormous business. I have to say, before you sent me the the aforementioned information that you did, I didn't appreciate just how great the reach was of Alltech.
Work Culture and Global Operations at Alltech
00:07:03
Speaker
and So how how much do you actually see of of of one another, if not specifically, but as as as departments in ah such a big organisation? Yeah, quite a lot really. So um most projects that I work on or conversations I have with customers, it kind of starts with that efficiency and improving performance, but then it will lead into the sustainability side of things. And so that's when we'll call on ECO2.
00:07:28
Speaker
And I'm just doing like a trial at the moment where we were doing low and high soya. So ECO2 come and... look at the diets and ah map them for us and then we'll look at the performance side. So it kind of, and it's kind of every conversation that Alltech really has, it is always looking around that sustainability as well as the performance side.
00:07:50
Speaker
like get kind hand in hand I want to ask you just to ah from a very, very plain point of view, what what's it like to work for the business? Can I be honest? Some people say it's a bit culty. I love it like because I've worked, obviously, originally when I was doing my PhD, I got a lot of involvement in all tech and understanding the industry.
00:08:11
Speaker
and and it is a family. It's family run. It's... It's got nice sort of quirky things about it. um Really good at throwing events and also say really good at that science side, which obviously draws me to it.
00:08:27
Speaker
I'm passionate about our products and the information that we put out there and trying to help people. Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned it's a family-run private business. and And before acquisition, we had a smaller family-run business. But you can see some definite similarities.
00:08:47
Speaker
We've gone from a small group of 10 people to Alltech has now got 5,000-plus employees you know operating in the customers in 140-plus countries, 85 manufacturing facilities across the globe. So it's it's a fair fair operation there. And I think if like for me, if I've got a question, whether it be in poultry or if it be in a different topic, there's because there's so many of us we can ask and we've got those answers. and
00:09:20
Speaker
Or if, you know, if we haven't done the research, I can go to America or somewhere in else in Europe. to see if they've got the information to help our customers. yeah yeah Really, you know if it feels like you can go to anybody within Alltech and ask yeah and for help.
00:09:35
Speaker
but Fantastic. Teams is definitely a ah the way forward of hosting millions.
Alltech's Planet of Plenty Vision
00:09:40
Speaker
you know Pre-COVID, you probably would have second thoughts about jumping on a plane and having customer or internal meetings now. It's one so much more reachable, aren't they?
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, interesting. but what What's the Planet of Plenty? Can I ask that? what's the tell me Tell me about the the vision. So it started really when um pearce Dr. Pierce Lyons started the company. He started with the ACE concept, which is animal consumer and environment. um That's way back in 1985.
00:10:10
Speaker
um And then when his son, ah Mark Lyons, Dr. Mark Lyons, took it over, um he changed that concept into Planet of Plenty. which is looking at science, sustainability and telling a story and understanding that agriculture got a massive part play improving the um sustainability of agriculture, um of of the planet really, and about agriculture.
00:10:38
Speaker
you know nutrition from the soil all the way to the consumer and that we need to look after the communities um and everything is all encompassing.
Measuring Sustainability in Poultry Industry
00:10:48
Speaker
um So it's about you know working with partners that are like minded to achieve those goals. yeah Yeah, and that's just hitting on the head there, you know, measurable impacts connected between global partners that to to advance sustainable practices globally.
00:11:04
Speaker
yeah And and the i ah would imagine that LCA is, sorry for anyone that's listening that's thinking, what what do you mean by LCA? So life cycle analysis, and another term might be a carbon footprint.
00:11:16
Speaker
But a lifecycle analysis would be a ah much broader range of activity, the full end-to-end chain as opposed to perhaps just on-farm activity or mentioned in a hatchery or something. Yeah, you're looking at footprints at a period of time for a system type.
00:11:33
Speaker
um And that system type can can be expanded or shrunk as as the more detail you want to to gather. so but But the footprinting, the the um you know the emissions reporting or recording of that, the measurement through carbon dioxide equivalent, as it would be expressed,
00:11:50
Speaker
would be a really useful foil to you know productivity or health yeah measures. and and And the two would knit perfectly, wouldn't it? It's like another string to the bow. This is this is why our products are beneficial yeah from an animal and also from an environmental point of view. Yeah, it's ah it's an excellent way of holistically measuring someone's business profitability, really.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, 70% or maybe more of that CO2 comes from the feed. um And so if we can improve the efficiency, we're going to be able to improve the carbon footprint of the system.
00:12:25
Speaker
And if we can improve the performance, then we're going to improve the sustainability of the um economics of that production system. So it kind of all goes in hand in hand. yeah and And that's the basis of what you've sent me, isn't it? These these these reports and and the word meta-analysis. yeah I mean, just teach me ah or teach everybody. what what What is a meta-analysis?
00:12:48
Speaker
Well, because we've got so much data, so many scientific trials behind our products, we were like, well, it's it would be nice to pull them all together and get a whole conclusion from that that wealth of data.
00:13:01
Speaker
So what it does is it's a statistical analysis that pulls all that data, makes sure that it's all rigorously controlled, and then comes up with like a conclusion at the end of how, um what what the effects are our products, and kind of one number, which allows us to then feed it through to ECO2 on the lifecycle analysis to have that performance and then also the sustainability coming out of it at the end.
Benefits and Impact of Alltech Products
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:30
Speaker
So you sent me three such meta-analyses. We've done it for all of our products, but I thought I'd only send you those ones. Thank you. I don't know how many hundreds of pages of of scientific studies I've now read. but so but if i if i Maybe I should ask you to to distill the findings of of of the reports. I'll have a go if you want, but i'll go on. and You summarise what they say.
00:13:55
Speaker
I suppose the conclusion from actually all of them is that we can improve performance and that's through um improving gut health or the availability of the nutrition, so the minerals within the diet.
00:14:08
Speaker
And know obviously if you improve the ability of that bird to absorb the nutrients, then you're going to get improvements in efficiency. So improvements in FCR, so around about 2% in our broilers, in our layers, and about a 2% improvement hen day production. um Obviously, if you improve that gut health of the bird, we're going to reduce mortality because the birds are going to be able to withstand um you know, pathogens are coming in. and So we saw an improvement of about 1% improvement in mortality.
00:14:43
Speaker
um And then on the layer side, saw stronger eggs, so able to produce more firsts and reduce the seconds. So obviously that all ties into the sustainability of that production system because those birds got stronger eggs they can lay longer and those eggs are going to make it to the supermarket yeah and so don't if you want to tell us the and and reductions in emissions Yeah, sure. So that's how it loses then by using the oil type products, you're increasing efficiency levels on the farm.
00:15:14
Speaker
And that by the same time, you're you're creating more product to dilute those emissions on the farm, which um goes hand-in-down with dropping that carbon footprint. So, you know, by example, um we mentioned improved mortality rates on farm.
00:15:28
Speaker
You know, you're dropping that. say from to 2.5%, that could easily have a 2% drop in a carbon footprint, which is which is quite significant. It doesn't mean not sound a lot, but when you're taking that across a lot of hens or a lot broiled meat, that that's a big reduction. Yeah, I think yeah you know kind of the bigger picture of food production using animal systems is ah is about, firstly,
00:15:53
Speaker
the efficiency of the of the ah system, the efficiency of the animal, and then it's where is the incremental gain? where Where are the opportunities to refine? yeah Because there's an awful lot of science that's gone, and we've talked to to people on this podcast about the breeding programmes and the selection processes and the resources that go into for for decades,
00:16:19
Speaker
um optimising the the the animal but then optimising the nutrition that then supports the health of the animal that that gets the best out of their genetic potential is the you know that's the big ticket item once you've've you've got the the breed or the species whatever that that that that you're looking to work with.
00:16:39
Speaker
yeah that That bird has been developed every year to improve the number of eggs or improve its yeah FCR and Changes in um nutrition obviously has had to keep up with that.
00:16:52
Speaker
But a lot of the research is over, you know, protein levels or energy levels and not really looking at things like the mineral levels. And we've done a lot of research into that and trying to update our recommendations and being really um comfortable with that. But a lot of these mineral levels that we say to feed those birds were old data back in, you know, 60s.
00:17:17
Speaker
I think kind of trying to keep up with that bird to make sure that it's maintaining itself to get to that, you know, 100 weeks or get, you good performance and um yeah get there.
00:17:30
Speaker
we We should spend a little bit of time just talking about each of the three different different products. so you've So you've sent me Actogen from a broil of... Two products.
00:17:41
Speaker
Point of view. Two products. yeah ah So I've got Biomoss and Bioplex. Well, yeah, so Biomoss is an older product. Right. that So Actogen is our second generation Biomoss.
00:17:52
Speaker
You can tell the non-scientist in this conversation. he Didn't understand the brief. Didn't didn't didn't understand what he was sent. yeah Okay, so we're we're looking at roughly a 2% improvement on FCR um as a result of using actogen in broilers, and then on Bioplex in layers about a 2% improvement on eggs per bird.
00:18:10
Speaker
yeah which sounds you know ah I get that the meta-analyses take account of an awful lot of scientific community data and and and research and and the process of distilling that into um you know non-duplicated, directly relevant studies means that it's a huge amount of work that's that's that's that's being represented. But still, that 2% feels quite a margin. you could You could believe or you could understand someone saying, actually, is that statistically significant?
00:18:42
Speaker
what when i When I read those papers, that what is absolutely leaps off the page at me is the mortality benefit from using these things. yeah um like I think the the lowest reported mortality gain was was about 12.5% above base and and the greatest, I think, 46% above base. These are enormous yeah strides in um improving livability, which as Jim was saying a moment ago, that's that's got to lead to growth.
00:19:10
Speaker
more output, which if you're then dividing the same amount of emissions over a greater base of output, is going to have a net effect of reducing your per kilogram measure of of um environmental impact. I guess my question
Challenges and Costs in Adopting Alltech Products
00:19:25
Speaker
in all of that is, why isn't everybody using it?
00:19:29
Speaker
I suppose it's, you know, thinking about cost and having that confidence. We've got confidence in it. We've got the the science behind it. And that that, so I think the meta-analysis has about a 20% reduction in mortality. so that's going from four and five to 4% in you know actual terms.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it doesn't sound massive, but when you times it up to the number of birds that you're going to put it on that that is a massive change of going from five to four.
00:20:01
Speaker
and it but It depends. You might say it might not sound massive. I think it depends where you are in the value chain. If you've got one shed, you know one producer with one farm, okay, it might not sound massive. But if you've got multiple farms or you're an integrator or you're you know you're a processor or you're even a retailer and you're interested in finding those incremental gains, for whether it's from a sustainability point of view or it's a cost of production point of view, because those two things are intrinsically linked, or it's a welfare angle, that gain is huge. And if it reduces the use of antibiotics, obviously that's a massive thing as well, you know, improving the ability of that bird to cope with any, you know, stresses that might put on it from, you know, feed changes or and lighting change or what have you.
00:20:46
Speaker
and I suppose the reason why and we we do have, you know, a lot of customers using it, um European, global wide, but that trying to explain, you it's it comes at a cost and you have to convince people that it works.
00:21:04
Speaker
And I think this is, you know, why we've done the meta-analysis. yeah And that 2.5% reduction in by using Bioplex, the CO2, just to put it in some sort of contest across maybe a million hens, you're talking a thousand tons of CO2, but why is that?
00:21:20
Speaker
But we were able to put that in some sort of context that the consumer or the farmer or the retailer can, can put a perception on that number. And we've calculated to be about 680 off the road.
00:21:31
Speaker
or pairing 700 houses with electric for 12 months, which is quite a lot when you when you scale it down to that. But but but if i if I... I think that the easiest way to communicate it to a to a producer or to a farmer is just in in cost... Profitability. but Profitability. if you're If you're increasing your output by 2% over the life of the flock, then you're going to be somewhere in the realms you know the realms of eight, ten eggs, depending on how breed you're using and for how long the life cycle is. but yeah
00:22:07
Speaker
I think the best way of convincing a farmer is to show him what it's worth in pounds, shillings and and and pence. So if you're talking about a 2% improvement in in yield, um let's say that equates to something in the region of um you know eight to eight to ten eggs. Take take eight eggs.
00:22:26
Speaker
Well, a pound fifty a dozen, and eight eggs is worth a quid. So if you if I've got 32,000, 64,000 hens and you're offering me 32,000 pound improvement on ah on a flock, i mean, how much is this stuff costing to include in the diet? There's got to be a big benefit. Yeah, there's there's a large more margin there. So, you know, your break even is a lot lower than that eight eggs.
00:22:53
Speaker
And so there's that margin that, you know, customers can feel comfortable putting it in and seeing what happens because they're going to get that break even and ah potentially a lot more.
00:23:05
Speaker
yeah oh yeah So there's definitely a payback in using this stuff at ah at a farm level. um But it's that's not the only opportunity for a producer to improve, a laying hen producer, an egg producer, to to improve their returns.
00:23:21
Speaker
um yeah More and more farms these days are taking their birds on a much longer cycle, whether it's brown or white, actually. um yeah How are Alltech supporting that? and So if you can get the nutrition of that bird correct, I mean that that bird has everything it needs to produce that one egg a day and make sure that that eggshell strength is really strong.
00:23:42
Speaker
It
Role of Trace Minerals in Poultry Nutrition
00:23:43
Speaker
means that a bird will be able to continue laying for longer and be more sustainable because we know that obviously that dilutes the and inputs that put in earlier. yeah that's right you you extend that laying period you create laying more eggs therefore you've got more eggs to dilute the carbon emissions on farm um you mentioned white for the brown we're seeing more and more conversations and more and more so scenario modeling for tomorrow european laying farms that we partner up with you know by by making that switch for the breed you can can be up to reducing your carbon footprint by 13 which is which is quite huge you've got that longer laying period you've got that reduced mortality and that's the extreme level 13 but
00:24:27
Speaker
Just go to show it. But the white's a lighter bird, isn't it? With a smaller appetite, so it's actually got yeah you know fewer fewer raw materials going in the front end. isn't there you know and Persistence in lay for over a much longer period of time, you're spreading the emissions, embedded emissions of the bird arriving on the farm over a ah much greater outcome. Yeah, i not only that as well, we're finding some slight differences in the pullet rearing stages as well of embedded emissions coming to lay of farms.
00:24:55
Speaker
You know, they're get into that weights a bit more efficiently with less feed as well yeah what what sort of differences are you seeing yeah like get they get into that sort of optimum weight a bit easier using less slightly less feed ingredients and and the mortality seems to be a bit more improved um you know we're seeing you know point of percent of reduction co2 but but that's quite significant when the pullet's coming onto a layer farm carry about anything between 6 and 7 percent or 8 percent of of the emissions coming into their farm. It's back to that incremental game, isn't it? Absolutely. They all add up. yeah We're a big believer, like don't change one thing 100 percent, look at 100 things and maybe improve them by 1 percent. And that's why we go into so much detail around the pullets, the hatcheries, the crops that go into the feed mills and the feed mill emissions to create ah a ton of crumb, a ton of mash or a ton of pallets. Is this where um yeah mineral usage, because one ah one of the the papers that you you sent talks about the bioavailability of organic trace minerals, and is that is that another differentiator in in ah you know the product mix that you're offering? Is that another incremental gain of of making sure that you know shell strength is better for longer, meaning that not only are there more eggs, but there are more first quality eggs reaching market? and
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, so one of the um services that we have is actually um going and breaking customers' eggs yeah to see how strong they are. being on farm while someone did that, actually. It was a yeah natty natty tool trying to get one for the packing centre. Yeah, it's really, really good. um And that gives us a way of measuring, you know, if we put product in,
00:26:35
Speaker
how that is changing the strength of that egg um and how it will, you know, feed through to longer life. So the whole concept between by and our bioplexes and cellplex is that they're more bioavailable. They don't have those negative interactions that inorganics have.
00:26:52
Speaker
So it means that the bird can absorb as much from the diet as possible, not just the minerals, but like other um new components. I mean, that that bird is healthier and able to stay in its production for longer. Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
yeah And these things, are i' going to go back to the, you know, how widely are they used question, because again, you're reading the the papers referring to outdated science and, um,
00:27:21
Speaker
you know formulations that are based on legacy understanding and information. and You think, are we ah we just at the you know the beginning of a transition into a more modern, more scientific-led way of formulating diets?
00:27:37
Speaker
Or is it sort of the preserve of just ah very, very few, um you know maybe more informed people using these things? I think it's becoming more and more commonplace to be looking at them and making that transition over into organic minerals. um I work with um ah number of, you know, the the larger and producers, European wide, that are trialling it and using it.
00:28:07
Speaker
um And it's understanding, you know, we've got the science behind it of why you see the improvements um in that stronger egg and lay. And also the kind of improved behaviours because that bird is getting what it needs.
00:28:25
Speaker
um And I think it's trying to um change the mindset of some of the nutritionists um going in there. um making making them confident in the data because we are reducing the level of minerals going into that diet.
00:28:43
Speaker
So obviously automatically you go to, are the wheels going to fall off? Yeah. um But we've got the research behind it showing that we can reduce that level of mineral because they don't need as much because they're able to actually absorb it. Yeah.
00:28:55
Speaker
um and Are there problems with, sorry to interrupt, are are there problems with actually overfeeding the inorganic equivalent minerals? Yeah, because there's the negative interactions that go along with those inorganic minerals, they don't all get absorbed. They're lower bioavailability. So actually they get excreted out on the back end. And they also interact with things like the enzymes, so like the phytases, the xylanases, the proteinases, the vitamins you put in there.
00:29:23
Speaker
the antioxidants. So you're putting all this stuff into your premix and because you've got these negative interactions, it's actually not getting to the bird. Not all of it's getting to the bird. It's going straight through? yeah Does that cause a problem then with the manure? are we ah is there is there another benefit in here that actually if we're doing things differently, we've got a less potent or or potentially less damaging manure that's then...
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, so we're seeing lower levels of the minerals we're adding, but also seeing things like phosphorus. We're getting lower levels of phosphorus in the excreter, improved yeah nitrogen excretion. and So lower levels of those minerals. and and Any stats so on that?
00:30:01
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so we've got um in one of the papers... um improvements in like, I'm trying remember off the top of my head, sorry, but it's something like 20% reduction in some of these minerals um and nitrogen phosphorus reduction by 5%.
Geographical Variation in Sustainability Efforts
00:30:18
Speaker
sent um So yeah big, big levels. So reduc reducing the amount being put out of the back end. Well, with with regulation or determination in courts around poultry manure of being classed as ah as a waste, anything that helped mitigate you know the potential impact of that has got to be.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. leapt on as an opportunity to diminish. And like thinking about, you know, we're spreading manure over the land near watercourses. It's all about reducing that leaching as well. So if we can reduce the amount that's going in the manure, it's going to be reducing the amount going into those watercourses. So that's obviously a very hot topic as well at the moment. Yeah.
00:31:00
Speaker
How many of these things are ah ah you know very geographic or geographically specific, we are... um you know Perhaps with with the Swiss or the or or maybe the American market, but you know quite consumer-focused, consumer-led, we are um you know forever trying to balance the environmental and and animal worth animal welfare concerns with the intensity required to feed every mouth and and the future demand that's growing as as well, whereas perhaps other countries, it's just a fundamental need for food at any cost. um so you know oh are we ah ah we Are we different in the sense of how we might apply the science that's available or do you get a consistent response in all of the territories and many territories that Alltech are involved with?
00:31:55
Speaker
It depends on what stage they are in their sustainability journey, I suppose. Um, and it depends on how I go approaching it. So either I lead with, you know, performance and improvements in efficiency and improvements in welfare.
00:32:10
Speaker
And then, um a secondary is the sustainability. yeah So poor Jim and the CO2 is really about um you know the the the developed world and the affluent consumer and and and giving another string to the bow, another supporting argument as to why these products or these benefits ought to make us stand up and take notice.
00:32:31
Speaker
It is not just about productivity, it's also about the environmental Yeah, and the communities, you know, obviously in some regions, that's the sole um income of that family and trying to make changes within that production system.
00:32:50
Speaker
they're going to be less thinking about sustainability. They're thinking more about their profitability because, you know, they they don't have the extra money to spend on that, improving, you know, the different lights that putting the stitch in the houses or the solar panels.
00:33:07
Speaker
But this, you know, efficiency is for everybody. It improves the birds' well-being and it also improves profitability, but also improves sustainability. so it's kind of that holistic approach.
Feed Efficiency and Carbon Footprint
00:33:20
Speaker
And that's something that gets missed lots the time before we footprinting at all levels. You know, it's um you mentioned solar panels and wind turbine and electric, you know, electric and fuel.
00:33:32
Speaker
It's a very, very tiny part of that carbon footprints on on that any any farm, no matter what system, what species type. So, um you know, it it really is, know, focus on those big wins, looking at feed, looking at the health and mortality rates, the longer lay-in periods, if you can get to them to really drive that sustainability message home.
00:33:55
Speaker
Talks about the fine print of ECO2 and ah and a footprint. Feed is a massive part of every monogastric footprint completed and soy, particularly soy from South America with the burden of land use change, really drives the the final result, arguably, more than productivity. yeah How do ECO2 sort of break down the different um elements of ah ah soy, of land use change, the different sustainability credentials the raw material?
00:34:23
Speaker
good question tom so when we're assessing feed we're looking at the cultivation and delivery of that raw material we're looking at the processing energy it takes to convert it into a compound marsh crumb whatever and then we're looking at the land use change as as you just mentioned but also the post-production transport um as we know soya coming from south america would come with a high land use change burden um compared to soy potentially grown in the us or canada um just from a carbon footprinting perspective if we're comparing a soya that's got a level of sustainability from a book and claim level which is ah containing the most land use change compare that to something that's grown in north america you're potentially talking like a 30 drop in the carbon footprint in which is pretty pretty severe but obviously it's the availability of that soya the cost that's sorry that that
00:35:18
Speaker
there really isn't that incentive yet to to to make that switch to that full identity preserve soy in in the UK yet.
Alternative Proteins in Poultry Diets
00:35:26
Speaker
yeah Even now we talk about footprinting, we talk about soy. The two the two are ah intrinsically linked, you know, and obviously I should put my Eggbase hat on and to do a bit of footprinting through my work at Eggbase. And the origin of soy is what brings about the you know the the the end result in in in kilograms of carbon equivalent per per kilogram of output broilers or eggs.
00:35:51
Speaker
but Where do we go if we're not using soy? How do we get away from soy? What are the alternatives? Where where do you see the alternative protein world going for our market? But I guess that's a question to both of you, really. yeah In terms of an ingredients, right, you know,
00:36:07
Speaker
not totally replacing it but maybe looking into other alternative proteins such as sunflower beans or peas you can transition into into your diets we've seen you know reduction in co2 equipment when that's been introduced and some of our scenario work have been doing in europe but you have recently been doing some trials of broilis Yeah, so like kind of moving forwards, if we can, and we'll try and do a low soya option on and the trial. So we'll do a standard diet and then a low soya. So the trial that we've just actually um completed in broilers and added 6.5% peas, beans, lupins and sunflowers of each of them.
00:36:48
Speaker
and So reducing that level of soya considerably. and What does that get the soy down to then? 12s? I wouldn't know off the top of my head, sorry, haven't got it there. It doesn't pop into my head. But it is a lot lower and ECO2Gym did the um calculations to see the reduction in carbon footprint from those diets. It wouldn't. Can you remember the numbers to that? Yeah, is it well roughly. um i was So so where we were working on the global warming potential of those um think four or five broiler diets that we that we did.
00:37:20
Speaker
And say, for example, it dropped the broiler diets by reducing that soy bean from, say, 1,050 kilograms of per ton down I think was like 900, 910, depending on what stage we're feeding So quite drop, a good 10%.
00:37:31
Speaker
nine hundred nine hundred and ten depending on what stage we're we're feeding at yeah so quite quite so you know quite a drop good ten percent And so we looked at the performance coming from that and there was a reduction, one an increase in the and FCR, but it wasn't significant.
00:37:50
Speaker
And then when you looked at the difference of feeding our gut health supplement and our minerals, it actually and brought those levels. So you saw... um the high soy diet with with an organic diet, inorganic minerals, and performing the same as the low soy diet with our organic minerals and our gut health. So there is ways of improving the bird's ability to digest and absorb those nutrients to then still have the performance of that high soy
Reducing Antibiotic Usage in Poultry
00:38:24
Speaker
diet. yeah and So it's really, and and that's going to be... um
00:38:28
Speaker
presented at PSA in America. PSA? Yes. So some of the... um yeah What does PSA stand for? Sorry, it's the Poultry Conference over in America. can't remember. Can you remember? paul Is it Poultry Science Association or something like that? Poultry Science.
00:38:45
Speaker
Poultry Science. Yeah, so in America. So that and it will be published later this year as well. So just really nice data. Yeah. showing improvements there. and And then where next?
00:38:56
Speaker
You know, if we've got but these two products, so I said three, but is it's two.
00:39:02
Speaker
what's the What's the next sort of breakthrough in in science that's going to help you know the the poultry industry or maybe the farming industry, if you go beyond just just poultry, break through and deliver for that growing demand for protein?
00:39:17
Speaker
I suppose it's, you know, Another area that I think about um a breakthrough is maybe antibiotic usage.
00:39:29
Speaker
Obviously, I know in the UK, we've got the antibiotic ban, so you can't feed it as a grapher motor, but there is still antibiotics being used in our poultry. And so trying to get that down as low as possible, um not not give antibiotics at all. and and And back to the earlier point, that that that must be a huge potential win in in other countries where antibiotics are still routinely given on a prophylactic basis as ah almost as a growth one almost as a growth yeah promoter.
00:40:01
Speaker
if if If your products can replace that using antibiotics, and And we've got some really nice new research and that shows that Alcat Health Supplement can actually reduce antibiotic resistance. So if you do need to use those antibiotics, it makes those antibiotics work better. So hopefully you won't have to use as many or as much, sorry. um And also rehabilitates that bird's gut so that then it's likely to get back to performance better. So you can get that trying to reduce the antibiotics.
00:40:36
Speaker
It's like a win-win-win circle all all the way around. Improve gut health, improve absorption, improve strength and vigour in the bird, exclude the ease of access for for pathogens, yeah reduce mortality, yeah increase output, which reduces emissions on a yield measure basis, and and and round we go. And improve food safety.
00:41:02
Speaker
So obviously it's a food, isn't it, coming into our diets. And so if we can reduce the pathogens that are within that bird, amazing, less likely to improve that food safety and also that antibiotic resistance is a huge thing for human health as well.
Alltech's Market Impact and Company Culture
00:41:19
Speaker
So if we can reduce the levels of antibiotics use, it's kind of a win for everybody. Yeah.
00:41:24
Speaker
I have to say ah you know in my years in poultry, I never really and knew very much about Alltech. It's been a fascinating you know past few weeks learning learning a bit more about your team and and meeting you, obviously, but reading the reading the papers, seeing all of the science behind um the the the products. and yeah's I'm very grateful for the opportunity to to learn more. It sounds like a fascinating and and very enjoyable um place to a place place to work.
00:41:57
Speaker
Can I ask, who are your customers generally? Are they farmers or are they feed mills or are they you know processors, integrators, packers? Do you get involved with retail? with yeah you know and Again, from a carbon point of view, can imagine it's a different audience to to ah to a you know feed additive.
00:42:14
Speaker
Bonne fient. you go first or ah from a carbon point of view? Go on, Jim. You go first. Yeah, so from a carbon point of we're working with farmers, we're working with retailers, and we're working with the middle-end protesters and packers.
00:42:26
Speaker
So, yeah, really, really is across the supply chain. Broad church. Definitely, yeah yeah. And is that the same for you as as as well, Harriet? Yeah, so um we might be going to a single farmer with one farm. We might be going to a massive integrator.
00:42:41
Speaker
ah We might be going to the feed mills, the nutritionists, the premixers. um and obviously they kind of all work together um and I suppose we've got 5,000 team members within Ortec we have um lots of different specialities within it so whether it be Soil health or plant health, we've got someone that can help with that. And then, you know, from my point of view, the technical help on the poultry side and then ah sustainability side and also the marketing side. So and we can kind of cross the board with yeah you know where we can help.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. and help our customers um tell their story, really. Yeah, because I can see that there's, there's from ah from ah you know maybe ah a retail end or a consumer end, there's product differentiation. you know There are selling points that can be created by incorporating this stuff. And then you come right back down to grassroots level and there's the simple productivity and health improvements that stem from that, or rather health improvements that then yeah lead to productivity.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah. We've definitely seen a shift in the last couple of years of, you know, primarily starting off with its retail led process of led, but now we're having quite a few inquiries. This is not just in UK, but in Europe and internationally as well. you know, farmers requesting a footprint.
00:43:58
Speaker
They see there's some real value in it, but also when they're looking to try and to expand their businesses, if they're looking to borrow money and looking to borrow green loans as preferential. rates for borrowing money it definitely is and and and and we've certainly seen a um an increase on wanting to understand their footprint so they can talk to their lender about it it's it's part and parcel of demonstrating to a market or demonstrating as you mentioned to to a lender yeah in the near future yeah they want to know that their business on the journey business they're lending money to is going to be sustainable it's going to be there for the long term it's another way of measuring or benchmarking the probability of a farm yeah
00:44:38
Speaker
So another 15 years there at ECO2, Jim? um I'll definitely be grey and a bit more um bolder by then. yeah yeah you you look like You both look like you're having an enormous fun time yeah in in all that. You're off to the Turkey Conference yeah just down the road, so no wonder you look so so pleased to be here.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah. to be here um It definitely is a fun, fun company. I think that's, that's the, the real take home really is it's fun, exciting company to work for.
00:45:08
Speaker
Um, they invest quite a lot of the time in you. Um, and, uh, and there's lots of, know, fundraising or like, you fun runs, things like that. And we have our one conference. We've got the, you know, brewery and the distillery that goes hand in hand with, you know, our events and what we do. So it's, That's where it all started, isn't it? The brewery? The founder is brewer. That's right, yeah. So Dr Lyons, his background, he did a brewing and distillery background. He was a fifth generation brewer and so very much turned his experience in the alcohol industry into the background in yeast into sort the fundamentals of how all tech is run today. It's got yeast at its core. Yeah.
00:45:57
Speaker
um we We do have our own brewing and distillery division in in Kentucky, but there's an interesting story. He converted in 2017, opened a St. James' church, which converts into distillery, which is really, you've been there
Charitable Initiatives and Skill-Building
00:46:15
Speaker
lately, haven't you? So it that it was a disused church that had been used for other um yeah ah companies that had been using it as a,
00:46:25
Speaker
um ah like base and it was disused so they they brought it um and put distillery in there and they've got a massive glass spire that they changed the colour of it to you know when it was the Jubilee it was red, white and blue and then you know on St Patrick's Day it would be green and yeah we we went there and did we did tours around it and whiskey tasting it's very nice um but yeah it's um yeah dr piers lyons had a phd in um yeast fermentation so brewer's yeast um and so that's kind of like the heart of company where a lot of the products come from
00:47:06
Speaker
I've just got this sort of church spire in bright, all-tech orange in yeah my mind. It probably has been at some point. I imagine it was green glowing green yesterday at St Patrick's Day. so it's you know very much kind of a family-run business that have kind of got different hands in different, you know, enterprises. And you mentioned fundraising and charity, but the company does as well.
00:47:36
Speaker
So um the Ace Foundation that we all... to try and raise money for um every year. In the Alltech House this year we're doing 25 challenges or 25 new skills so everyone has got the opportunity to to teach one of their colleagues a new skill.
00:47:55
Speaker
I think one of our colleagues was teaching how people had diverse horse trailers last week and the juggling we've done and knitting and Oh, de-breasting pheasants, actually, is another one. It's a diverse skill set, isn't it, for every walk of life. Yeah, so everyone learning that new skill will donate um but whatever they can, and it goes towards raising but funds for and the local community in Stanford, which is something that we don't really hear much
Conclusion and Thanks
00:48:21
Speaker
about.
00:48:21
Speaker
No, we don't talk about it that much, but we probably should. Yeah. but and I have to say, I think that the two of you have done an amazing job of of shining a light on the business as a whole. Yeah. yeah shining a light on on the fantastic work of your immediate colleagues in in and around your your own working environment. ah I'm very grateful for your time and for but teaching me um an awful lot more about all tech than I knew before I i met you for sharing your your science and your story with us. So you know thank you for coming on the podcast.
00:48:52
Speaker
And yeah to everybody, thank you for listening. Thank you very much. No, thanks, Jonas. Thank you. You've been listening to an episode of the Poultry Network Sustainability Hub podcast, sponsored by Moy Park, UK Agritech Centre, Elanco, Trow Nutrition, Hendrix Genetics, Aviagen and Alltech.