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E5 The Poultry Planning Landscape With Ian Pick image

E5 The Poultry Planning Landscape With Ian Pick

The Poultry Network Podcast
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80 Plays18 days ago

In this episode of the Poultry Network Podcast, Jake Davies, editor of Poultry.Network, steps in for regular host Tom Woolman to interview one of the most recognisable names in UK agricultural planning: Ian Pick of Harrison Pick.

Described as "planning royalty" in the poultry world, Ian shares insights from nearly two decades of experience helping producers across the UK navigate an increasingly complex planning system.

Responsible for thousands of poultry units nationwide, Ian explains the current realities facing farmers who want to develop or expand poultry operations - especially in light of tightening environmental thresholds and regulatory changes.

The conversation begins with a walk-through of the planning process from first contact through site screening.

Ian outlines how the ammonia impact threshold is now the biggest barrier, ruling out around 80% of initial enquiries.

Most applications fail before they begin — unless mitigation technologies like air scrubbers can be justified.

Despite these challenges, Ian says demand is booming, particularly in the broiler sector, with stocking density changes driving the need for more housing.

He and his team are seeing record volumes of planning applications, working 80-hour weeks just to keep pace.

New activity is concentrated along the east side of England (Norfolk, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire), with additional development in Shropshire and north of the border for layers.

However, regions like Wales and Herefordshire are essentially closed to new developments, with planning frozen due to Natural Resources Wales policies and nutrient neutrality rules respectively.

In Herefordshire, the fallout from a court ruling classifying manure as waste remains largely confined to that local authority’s policy framework — although campaigners are using it as ammunition elsewhere.

Jake and Tom raise the growing influence of well-organised anti-lobby groups, whose tactics and PR strategies can amplify local objections.

Ian acknowledges their presence but argues that such campaigns often overstate their impact.

Even in cases where judicial reviews have succeeded — such as the recent one in Shropshire — the outcomes are typically technical adjustments rather than blocks to development.

Ian stresses that well-prepared, environmentally robust applications are still succeeding, particularly for replacement of old buildings with modern equivalents.

In England at least, planning authorities are still accepting arguments for betterment, especially where new builds reduce emissions and meet higher environmental standards.

The episode closes with a reminder of the strategic importance of the poultry sector to UK food security and health.

A must-listen episode for poultry producers, integrators, and stakeholders navigating the intersection of agricultural growth, regulation, and environmental responsibility.

👉 Visit harrisonpick.co.uk to contact Ian Pick and his team.

👉 Subscribe to the Poultry Network Podcast and sign up to the Poultry.Network newsletter at poultry.network

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Transcript

Intro

Introduction to Poultry Network Podcast

00:00:15
Tom Willings
Welcome back to another edition of the Poultry Network podcast. and My name is Tom Willings. It's a special day today because I'm joined not by Tom Woolman, but actually the the the brains of the outfit, the man behind the Poultry net and a Network podcast.
00:00:31
Tom Willings
Jake, over to you.
00:00:32
Jake Davies
Hi, yes. So as Tom says, I'm not Tom Woolman. I'm Jake Davis, editor of Poultry Network, some say Dark Overlord. um But yeah, happy to happy to sit in for Tom who couldn't be here today.
00:00:46
Jake Davies
And I'm really

Ian Pick's Contributions to the Poultry Industry

00:00:47
Jake Davies
pleased we've got to we got some planning royalty with us today in the in the poultry sector.
00:00:51
Ian Pick
.
00:00:52
Jake Davies
Ian Pick from from Harrison Pick, a well-known name, certainly. Tom, you were just remarking about how well-known Ian is.
00:01:00
Tom Willings
I think Ian Pick, royalty is the right phrase. When I when i first started at Noble Foods in 2010, I remember John Holt, dear John Holt, um sort of introducing me to the the world of um yeah prospecting, of of growing the network of of farmers. And the the name that kept coming up when every time we looked at who was on the page, who was coming next year and the year after, Ian Pick. Oh, I'm talking to Ian Pick about this, Ian Pick. ian pick ian you must be singularly responsible for more poultry units nationwide than than any other person is that right do you even know that is that correct
00:01:37
Ian Pick
um It wouldn't surprise me. i've I've

Challenges in Poultry Industry Planning

00:01:39
Ian Pick
never actually added them up, but we'll be we'll be well into the thousands now in terms of, I would say we've acted for 50% of the poultry farmers in the United Kingdom.
00:01:49
Tom Willings
yeah I suspect you're hiding your your light, as they say, but it's great it's great to have you here. Lots of stuff going on in the industry as regards planning and ah yeah determinations, judgments, speculation as to just to how easy or difficult it will be to gain planning in the future. So looking forward to, ah forgive me, pick your brains on that over the next 10 minutes or so.
00:02:17
Tom Willings
and But Jake, I know you've got a few things lined up. I'll i'll hand over to you.
00:02:20
Jake Davies
Yeah, well, I thought, you know, a good way perhaps to introduce what you're doing would be to to sort of put ah put us in the shoes of a prospective farmer who wanted to develop a poultry unit or where you indeed expand ah an existing one.
00:02:34
Jake Davies
What's the process, you know, briefly from from inception when they pick up the phone to you to, you know, pre-screening, planning, and some of the some of the sort of tricky things which we'll come on to after after after that. But yeah, if you want to give us a a whistle-stop tour of the process. That'd be a good start, I think.
00:02:52
Ian Pick
Yeah, so so we get we get inquiries on her on a daily basis for for all aspects of poultry development. the The first stage is that the rules are very, very tight now.
00:03:06
Ian Pick
We've had changes in the ammonia thresholds that came in 2007, they were changed in 2018, they were changed again 2022.
00:03:15
Ian Pick
We're a starting point where the acceptable levels of ammonia that you're allowed is the process contribution of 1%, which is basically nothing.
00:03:27
Ian Pick
um So starting point with every job is... We go on the land app or onto Manjik and we look at its proximity to the nearest protected sites being SSSIs or special protection areas, special areas of conservation, anything that has an ammonia impact threshold.
00:03:45
Ian Pick
um run it through the ammonia screening tool or the scale calculation just to see whether we've got a prayer of of getting it to to comply with natural England thresholds. So stage one, so I would say out of, if we get 10 inquiries,
00:04:06
Ian Pick
probably 80% of them will will fail at the first hurd hurdle, which is um we just can't achieve what we need to achieve in terms of ammonia.
00:04:17
Ian Pick
And then if the still if they're still interested in that in pursuing it, you've got to look at mitigation things. So like your dreaded airs scrubbing technology, but yeah, first job, you have a look in terms of um ammonia impacts as to whether we're compliant. And

Regulatory and Regional Restrictions

00:04:37
Ian Pick
then we've got to review in terms of,
00:04:40
Ian Pick
flood If it it's in the floodplain, what does the access look like? What's the proximity to the neighbours for amenity purposes? So there's ah a big checklist of of things that we yeah we go through first. so um So it's easy to rule them out.
00:04:56
Ian Pick
It's a lot more difficult to rule them in. So...
00:04:58
Tom Willings
And I guess that 80% rule out at the beginning has has changed enormously as a result of those kind of moving of goalposts.
00:05:07
Ian Pick
Yeah.
00:05:08
Tom Willings
what's What's the general activity like now? you know You've got enormous confidence at market level, great returns, you know the likes of which we've never seen before.
00:05:14
Ian Pick
Thank you.
00:05:18
Tom Willings
And, you know, we've seen the laying flock at least, but course on the broiler side, the stocking density changes also driving demand. But then this nervousness that, as you say, that the rules are harder to abide by or the limits tougher to meet. So from your perspective right now, are you busier than ever are you know, suffering that 80% rule out?
00:05:46
Ian Pick
No, so we have got um more planning applications in the system at this moment in time for broilers and free range in terms of volume numbers than we have ever had in the history of... but as ah I've been doing this 19 years and...
00:06:05
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:06:05
Ian Pick
and this is as busy as we have ever been it's like you're doing week in week out 80 hours a week um just trying to keep on top of this stuff and and we're not keeping on top of it because the the stuff that's screening in at the initial stage um we're struggling to to to process the volume at the moment so um yeah it's it it's challenging and there's a lot going on.
00:06:37
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:06:37
Ian Pick
um Most of it's to do with broilers and the stocking density reduction. So, but there's a lot of new sites on the east side of the country. So going into my park, um a lot of, lot of demand from all the integrators, lot of interest.
00:06:56
Ian Pick
um And yeah, it's, it's, it's business is booming at the moment.
00:07:02
Tom Willings
You mentioned the east side of the country. I was going to ask you if there is regionality to that, you know, from from a laying perspective, you hear lots about north of the border, um still, you know Northern Ireland, particularly, um you know, in England, then then eastern Yorkshire.
00:07:13
Ian Pick
Thank you.
00:07:20
Tom Willings
from From your point of view, are there areas that are completely off limits? Hmm.
00:07:24
Ian Pick
So the whole of Wales is completely off limits for a new project, a new planning application. Just the the whole thing is essentially on hold.
00:07:35
Ian Pick
National Resources Wales are um not going to support anything until such time as the Welsh Government have upgraded updated their ah manure management regulations. So um everything that we've got live in Wales, we've had ah a letter from the local authority to say they want a year's extension of time.
00:07:54
Ian Pick
and just to wait for new regulation on manure management then um that there's there's more challenging places so Herefordshire in the Y catchment which was the the area of growth if we go back 10 years there was a lot of activity in that area but with the nutrient neutrality requirements and the
00:08:07
Tom Willings
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
00:08:17
Ian Pick
and i mean the chain of custody requirements on what you do with the manure. There's not a lot of activity in Herefordshire. There's quite a lot of activity in Shropshire and there's a lot of activity down the east side of the country.
00:08:25
Tom Willings
yeah
00:08:30
Ian Pick
So Norfolk, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire and further north on the broiler side and the free range side. And then but get north of the border. There's quite significant levels of activity on the lane side north of the border.
00:08:44
Tom Willings
Yeah, so I hear you mentioned there Shropshire and there's been a recent case in the news and we're we're going to come on and talk about that at a moment, but Herefordshire, you go back. but three or four months, and there was a determination in in um in Herefordshire that um chicken manure could be labelled as a waste by the local authority. And then there was the concern, the doomsday approach, that that there was going to be this sort of migration of that policy then adopted across the rest of the country. Has there been any sign of that?
00:09:18
Ian Pick
There's been mention of that court case with in terms of mainly with object as to schemes outside of Herefordshire but that um court case is basically limited to Herefordshire and it's because of specific local problems within that within their catchment so it's
00:09:39
Tom Willings
Yeah. yeah.
00:09:41
Ian Pick
I don't really believe there's a wider legal implication to the Herefordshire case because
00:09:46
Tom Willings
yeah

Legal and Environmental Implications

00:09:47
Ian Pick
it was it was specific to written policy in the Herefordshire Waste Local Plan.
00:09:53
Tom Willings
yeah yeah
00:09:57
Tom Willings
I'm certain it's still going be a shot in the arm to those sort of campaign groups that are looking to limit the expansion, the extension of the of the poultry industry. I've got personal experience of of of being out well outside of that catchment area um and looking to you know engage with the local community only to find that you've got almost professional um anti-lobbyists traveling the country, having come from a you know completely different region the day before to to to to come and you know make their case and and and put their point across, but all based on the the the citizen science from from the Y catchment.
00:10:38
Ian Pick
Uh-huh.
00:10:38
Tom Willings
Yeah. um
00:10:40
Jake Davies
let's get It's good.
00:10:40
Tom Willings
We met, sorry, Jake, go on.
00:10:42
Jake Davies
yeah Yeah, just, I mean, I suppose sort of moving towards the the more recent High Court ruling as well, and kind of following on from what you said, Tom, there's kind of a there's a huge PR engine behind these, these campaigners, and they successfully present to the media that these,
00:10:47
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:10:58
Jake Davies
these planning battles are ginormous, huge victories. It's completely changed the change the landscape for for would-be applicants and planning and people. i think I suspect the reality is a bit more nuanced than that, Ian. Is that the case that think you know things will still happen ah if everything's done properly um you know and correctly from a planning perspective?
00:11:20
Ian Pick
um It is. so And even within so the the judicial review was against Shropshire Council. And Shropshire's been ah challenging place for for a number of years. And that judicial review, whilst River Action did win,
00:11:38
Ian Pick
I would regard it as a little win rather than a big win. So it it's not a fundamental point of principle, you cannot build a poultry unit. It's it's added in some and some challenges in terms of what information needs to be presented within your environmental statement.
00:11:57
Ian Pick
But it did,

Supporting Poultry Sector Expansion

00:11:58
Ian Pick
it's... it's a technique is this is is added in additional technical requirements but it's it's not um it's not the end of the world it's it's it's something that needs to be addressed within your submission but it's not something that's going to ultimately prevent these developments moving forward
00:12:19
Tom Willings
A message of confidence, that sounds like. oh so Good news, good news for many.
00:12:25
Ian Pick
yeah
00:12:26
Tom Willings
Ian, it sounds like you're a busy man already, but if there is anybody out there that doesn't know how to reach you, how would you how would you um direct them to you?
00:12:34
Ian Pick
So if you go onto our website, which is harrisonpick.co.uk, all the email addresses and telephone numbers are on there. So either myself on the mobile or my colleague Sam on his mobile, they're both on the website.
00:12:49
Tom Willings
Fantastic. Fantastic. you You've got to think that you know this is an industry that's incredibly well invested, but also incredibly important in in the health of our nation going forward. we We are, whether it's meat sector or egg sector, producing a very, very efficient, um nutritious, safe, healthy, healthy, healthy,
00:13:09
Tom Willings
British product, food product that that the vast proportion of our population continue to enjoy and consume and and do so, as I say, sustaining um a good healthy diet, we have to be able to replenish our national housing stock. If we can't replace what we've got and and and build to grow, in harnessing kind of modern best available techniques, then we're going to wither on the vine. We're going to see the same products just produced internationally and then imported across our our borders, ah most likely with reduced standards on on on those farms. So um yeah we've we've got to find the right balance going forward, haven't we?
00:13:54
Ian Pick
So I think on on on that point, the the government is aware at the higher level of the problems. So there was ah there was a meeting with the Minister and and the industry last week, which were these issues of manure management and um opposition to the schemes and things they're all being discussed in terms of trying to ah facilitate expansion because the the likes of the the big integrators have got large investment portfolios there's large amounts of money they're wanting to invest in the industry in terms of building new farms increasing capacity
00:14:37
Ian Pick
and at the moment it's been held back. So there's um there's ah there's there's a lot of investment in the yeah in the UK economy at stake. So something might happen, but it depends how how quickly.
00:14:54
Jake Davies
You know, to talk to Tom's point really as well, it's like replacing your old, your 30 year old petrol, you know, car with a brand new zero emissions electric one, you know, all these modern buildings are much better equipped to to manage environmental concerns than, you know, really old 40, 50 year old sheds.
00:14:54
Tom Willings
But we will...
00:15:11
Jake Davies
So yeah, there's there's a clear imperative to, as you say, renew and replace our housing stock with modern equivalents. So let's let's hope the government's listening.
00:15:22
Ian Pick
I haven't really. on the if If we've got an old operational site and we wanted to replace it for a new site, We haven't experienced problems of others in terms of um every demolition and rebuild site we've we've submitted for, ah um as ultimately got there in the end, and big on an argument of betterment.
00:15:47
Ian Pick
I think it's a different story in and Northern Ireland, but the the actual knocking things down and replacing them with something better, they're the ones that are still getting through the system.

Closing Remarks and Contact Information

00:16:00
Tom Willings
good Good to end on a positive note. Ian, again, thank you so much for for joining us. ah Jake, thank you for stepping in.
00:16:08
Ian Pick
Thank
00:16:09
Tom Willings
um Back next week. let's let Let's see. I don't know if Tom's going to be back or ah or you'll you'll be here again. maybe Maybe it'll be me that will step out next week. Who knows?
00:16:18
Jake Davies
You're nice.
00:16:19
Tom Willings
um for for For you out there as well, thank you for listening. If you haven't already, please do visit the poultry.network website. It's a simple address, just poultry.network and subscribe both to this podcast and the weekly newsletter.
00:16:35
Tom Willings
um But until next time, thank you and goodbye.

Outro