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Talking Ultra Running and Ski-Mo with Mike Foote
1.4k Plays4 years ago
In this episode of the Uphill Athlete Podcast, Scott Johnston talks with professional runner, Mike Foote. They discuss Mike's training and athletic history, the process of his athletic development, injury rehab and prevention, and Mike's passion for moving quickly in the mountains.
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Transcript
Introduction and Resources
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. These programs are just one of several free services we provide to disseminate information about training for mountain sports. If you like what you hear and want more, please check out our website, uphillathlete.com, where you'll find many articles and our extensive video library on all aspects of training for and accomplishing a variety of mountain goals. You'll also find our forum, where you can ask questions of our experts and the community at large.
Host and Guest Introduction
00:00:30
Speaker
Our email is coach at uphillathlete.com and we'd love to hear from you. Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. I'm your host Scott Johnston, co-founder of Uphill Athlete.
Training Collaboration and Achievements
00:00:43
Speaker
And with me today is Mike Foote, one of the professional mountain runners that I coach. And it gives me a great deal of pleasure to be able to sit down and talk with him and kick some of these ideas that he and I spend a lot of time on the phone, kind of kicking ideas back and forth about training. And I think that sharing some of those will be informative for folks. And Mike's got quite an interesting story to tell as well. So welcome, Mike. Thanks, Scott. Good to be here with you.
00:01:12
Speaker
So Mike and I started have been working together. We just realized it's coming up on our three year anniversary. And Mike came to me when he was interested in breaking or trying to break the world 24 hour schema record.
00:01:29
Speaker
And so he and I concocted some training ideas for that. It turned out to be pretty successful and he did manage to break that record.
Mike's Athletic Journey
00:01:40
Speaker
And there's a story on our website about that and I think that story is floating around in some other places on the web right now, isn't it?
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so if people are interested, they can read about that. There's also a little story about it in our book, Training for the Uphill Athlete. But that was just sort of the beginning of my working with Mike. And then after that, we've gone on to work with him on some other projects and goals that he's had.
00:02:09
Speaker
But before we talk too much about those, I want to have Mike sort of introduce himself and talk a little bit about his racing history, mostly in mountain running, but also in schema. So why don't you give us some of that background, Mike?
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So my first competitive sport was playing baseball in Northeast Ohio growing up. I grew up in the Midwest and really didn't travel much past the
00:02:43
Speaker
just outside of just that area and never really seen mountains until I was in my late teens, early 20s. So it was very much ball sports focused, baseball, football, basketball growing up. But as soon as I did make it out west and finished up my undergrad here in Missoula, Montana, where I live currently, just the call of the trails really pulled me in and I started running.
00:03:13
Speaker
More and more often, and before I knew it, I was jumping into trail marathons and trail ultramarathons. My first competitive trail ultramarathon was in 2009. I signed up for the Wasatch Front 100 mile run just outside of Salt Lake City.
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was able to not only finish the race, but be top 10 in a pretty competitive field. After that, I was just hooked on just the idea of trying to move.
00:03:48
Speaker
efficiently through big mountains was so compelling to me and is to this day and really just drew me in and I think also the just community within the mountain endurance sport world really really kept me in as well and it's become just a huge part of who I am today.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah. So I, I, would you like me to kind of go through? Well, yes, I think there's definitely some highlights here we ought to hit on. I mean, some that are official races like the UTMB and, um, the hard rock, but I also think there's some great non-official events you've taken part in like yours and Luke's prod, you know, running from was a glacier to.
00:04:32
Speaker
BAM for, you know, some run through the Rockies in Canada? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, I've, I've, I've definitely in the last decade, you know, like a lot of athletes really love the long, big races, such as hard rock. I've placed second there multiple times. I've been third and fifth, where my two best performances at UTMB.
00:04:57
Speaker
you know, on the podium at Ultra Trail Mount Fuji, Laredo Ultra Trail, you know, some of the larger ultramarathons in the world. But at the same time, I also love just tracing lions on a map and exploring them. In 2015, it was actually Mike Wolf and
Epic Adventures and Achievements
00:05:15
Speaker
myself. We ran from
00:05:18
Speaker
our homes here in Missoula, 600 miles to Banff, Canada, we realized that the crown of the continent ecosystem we were on the southern border of and Banff was on the northern border of it and really it was just a patchwork of public lands and open spaces between these two communities and
00:05:37
Speaker
We ultimately, over the course of a few weeks, traversed 13 mountain ranges and only crossed two paved roads, maybe three. And so just a really incredible experience. And the majority of the route was the off-trail, quite literally following ridge lines north.
00:05:57
Speaker
I look back on that and still think of it as one of the greater accomplishments in my athletic career, not because we were trying to go as fast as possible, but just to be at a point where we were durable enough to move through steep, slow terrain day after day after day, oftentimes carrying heavy packs and being able to wake up the next day and do it all over again. It was a really, really rewarding experience.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, really informs a lot of the adventures I dream up now because I just love that idea of just being out there and going for it. Well, that's an impressive thing. How long did that take you guys?
00:06:39
Speaker
So yeah, it was 23 days, 600 miles on the docks. We got into dance and we were at 599 miles or 599.7 miles when we stopped. And when we realized that we, I think we did a couple laps around the parking lot or down the street to get to our 600, like a true runner would. And yeah, I think it was, I think it was a couple hundred thousand feet of climbing.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's really it. That's very cool. And while we're on that subject, we should mention that you and Mike Wolf put on this race that's advertised on the hat you're wearing right now, the rut. And sadly, that's not happening this year, but I'm sure lots of people have heard of that race. And I also know that you're anxiously hoping you can put it on again next September.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, the Mountain Runs, which we put on in Big Sky, Montana, has just been one of the more unexpected parts of my life. We created an event that we thought would be something we would want to go to, an incredibly challenging course.
00:07:50
Speaker
You know, really fun after party, uh, just good communal festive feel, but people really, but again, uh, just a world-class course that really challenges and gets people out of their comfort zone. And yeah, um, in the last seven years, it's grown into one of the largest trail races in North America. We get about 3,200 people to show up.
00:08:12
Speaker
and it's a three-day event over Labor Day weekend each year, and it's just absolutely wonderful. And yeah, like you mentioned, we went virtual, the virtual route this year, and some of the silver linings were, our goals with that event are to build community, to challenge people, to keep the conversation going around mountain sport,
Impact of the Pandemic
00:08:37
Speaker
and all of that. And, you know, we still were able to do that in a way this year, but folks were just doing it in their own places all over the world. I mean, we had another uphill athlete, David Gotler. He was, I think he did, did a big run over near Chamonix. Yeah. And it's been great to see messages from folks all over sharing about their, their run experience. But yes, hopefully, hopefully next year bring people back to big sky once more. Fingers crossed. I sure hope so.
00:09:06
Speaker
out of these woods by then would be a relief for everybody. And that's, I think that might lead us into another thing we should talk a little bit about is this has been massively disrupting to everyone's lives, you know, far above and beyond their recreational activities like, you know, mountain running.
00:09:28
Speaker
But for professional mountain runners, it's presented a real challenge in that things that you were training for got canceled and it's been hard to shift focus to something new and different. And let's talk a little bit about how you've managed this disruption to your life.
00:09:50
Speaker
And has it been, I mean, it's been a, I know because I'm, you know, you and I had kind of joined at the hip with this, but I, you know, and I think there's some injury stuff we want to touch on here too, but just also from the standpoint of like dealing with
00:10:05
Speaker
the this sort of a pretty significant setback in terms of you know you're an athlete you got a fairly short career at which you can excel and then and if you get disruptions like this in the middle of it it can throw a pretty big wrench into stuff and so yeah and I think you've handled it extremely well well I'm glad you think so sometimes I wonder if that's true I mean I I will say that I am
00:10:35
Speaker
quite intrinsically motivated. I tend to want to do more than my body will allow. And so it's sometimes the challenge is to know when to back off and to not be so greedy. I don't know if it was denial or just trying to be, yeah, I'm not sure what, I feel like my reaction early on this year when races and events were canceled and
00:11:03
Speaker
under a blank slate was, oh, this is a great opportunity to maybe train more, train harder. I'm not going to back off at all. That works to a point, but I also, I think at one point I made the joke of it would be funny to injure yourself in a year when there's no races. I think
00:11:26
Speaker
You know, being out every day, I do put structure to my training and I try and recover intelligently and things like that. But, you know, when you're really trying to get the best out of yourself, you can kind of go over the edge on occasion. And I've definitely felt that off and on specifically in the last couple of years and.
00:11:44
Speaker
I've been dealing with about of just patellar tendonitis in my right knee, something that seems so minor yet has kind of felt chronic this year and really has limited me amidst, you know, not only are we not having races, but I am not able to go out and do these big adventure runs or set personal goals in a way that I would really like to kind of backfill that lack of
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah, I would, in all honesty, I feel like in some ways I've handled this process really well.
00:12:20
Speaker
And just to be a culture I'm going by right now. In some ways, I've handled this process really well. And in other ways, I've definitely struggled. I mean, the mental struggle is real as well when you're physically limited and there's this larger societal stress out there. And just like anybody, I've had my good days and my bad days.
00:12:48
Speaker
In a nutshell, I'm starting to kind of creep out of that and kind of looking out on the horizon again and trying to set some personal goals after a few months of being set back. Well, I know when I mentioned that you've handled this really well, I was primarily referring, I guess, because this is something you and I have been dealing with now for several months, is this injury issue.
Injury Challenges and Resilience
00:13:13
Speaker
I think you've really taken the bull by the horns and connected with a very good physical therapist, local to you, who's given you a great program to try to strengthen this. You've been kind of pain free now, the last few weeks, it seems like, fairly frequently. You're reporting back to me that you're not feeling too bad.
00:13:37
Speaker
And whereas I think if we think back, I don't remember when exactly when it was, but probably in May or something.
00:13:44
Speaker
We were having to have you do a lot of your training on a bicycle because you just weren't able to run without hurting yourself. And you didn't want to go walking, so we got you on a bike. And I think this is something that most of us that have, I think pretty much all of us who have spent a lifetime pushing ourselves in these events, these types of things, are going to encounter periods of injury. And those things,
00:14:15
Speaker
if they're not handled properly and you don't respect the fact that you, hey, this is an injury that you need to deal with and you just put your head down and try to bull your way through it, that could be a career ending event right there. I mean, I've seen it happen before where people just won't acknowledge the fact that this is a problem until finally the wheels completely come off and then they're broken, you can't do anything. And so I think that what I commend you for is
00:14:43
Speaker
not, you know, seeking professional help outside, you know, certainly what I could offer you in terms of getting physical therapy, being really diligent about sticking with that program.
00:14:55
Speaker
And then being willing to realize that this was a period of rehabilitation as much as it was training. And recognize that, okay, I'm not going to be able to go out and do these big personal things. And the kind of training that I'm used to doing, that's so tempting for us, especially if there's any kind of friends or groups and, hey, we're going to go do this. And you want to jump into things like that with other folks.
00:15:23
Speaker
And often that can be a disaster because they're not injured. And so I think that that's, to me, been one of the high points of working with you is seeing how well you've managed that.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, I know it's been incredibly tough for you mentally to have this setback that's lasted for months now. And you're finally coming out of the woods with it. But it's I don't know, it's quite commendable, Mike, I think it's cool that you've you put this together. And and I'm seeing you were starting to see glimpses of Oh, that was actually a pretty significant run you did a few days ago. And, you know, in no knee pain and things like that. I love seeing those kind of comments and training peaks from you.
00:16:06
Speaker
Um, I feel like, okay, we've turned a corner. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's funny. I think the couple of setbacks that I've had this, this summer have been due to making plans with friends and then going a little bit bigger than I probably should have. And it's one of those things where it feels good in the moment and then, then you regret it and kind of dings dings you a little bit. Um, yeah, I feel like, uh,
00:16:34
Speaker
It's been, just like anything, it's been an opportunity to learn. I think I continue to just learn more about my body and understand the nuances of things. And I find the psychological aspect of pain to be so compelling. I mean, I think a lot of times, I haven't missed a day at the gym since June.
00:17:02
Speaker
and when they finally reopened after the initial shutdown and I'm in there twice a week and I'm progressing and I'm getting stronger and I'm able to do so much more than I probably could have done last year. You know, either these deficiencies I probably had and in many ways I'm more durable than I've probably ever been and yet
00:17:21
Speaker
there's this kind of psychological aspect of holding on to this pain and identifying as like an injured runner and I've been really working hard to just kind of have that confidence mentally that I'm over an injury and trying not to guard myself when I run and I think that the
00:17:39
Speaker
I've just been reading a lot about sports psychology and just the mental aspects of performance and rebounding from injury. And it's really interesting. And I think that one of the largest silver linings of these last few months has been learning the power of marrying both mind and body in this healing process. And I think that those are tools that I'll use moving forward without a doubt. No doubt about that.
00:18:08
Speaker
To give a little context to this current injury, I think we should talk about your injury the winter before when you were a scemo world champion. That was kind of out of the blue thing. Shocked me. I know it was shocking for you. We should probably tell that story.
00:18:28
Speaker
So you have had these two years that have had significant injuries you had to recover from. So that I think also helps people understand why this has been such a big challenge for you is coming off of a year where you would get injured skiing and now a year where you're dealing with this running problem. So talk a little bit about that trip to Europe for that race.
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, so in the last handful of years, I've just dove headfirst into the sport of ski, ski-motor racing, ski mountaineering racing, and have been on the US ski-motor team the last few years, and have had the privilege of heading over to Europe and racing in the world championships. Last spring, we were in Switzerland, and it was the day before
00:19:19
Speaker
our first competitive event, the vertical kilometer or the vertical race. And I managed to just while skiing down to the hotel on the last run of the day, which is how it happens, ski over a blind roller into a rock pile, more or less. I tried jumping over it to no avail, landed, separated and dislocated my right shoulder.
00:19:44
Speaker
and broke a rib quite high up just right in my almost in my armpit and that ended that trip pretty quickly. You know as a endurance athlete I'm used to overuse injuries but have not had to sustain any any traumatic injuries in quite some time and so it was quite frustrating.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, kind of sent me back leading into the summer and late spring for running training, trying to get into shape for running events in the summer as well. So the timing was a bit tricky. It always is. And yeah, you know, between that and then some of the issues I've had this year, I managed to
00:20:24
Speaker
Separate a rib earlier this year on a run by falling and elbowing myself in the chest. Somehow I've had I've had a lot of like you know aches and pains that in these last couple years and You know, it comes with the territory, you know, there's a part of me that's proud that I'm pushing my limits and another part of me that's
00:20:44
Speaker
I'm greatly frustrated every time I'm limited. I feel like it's infringing upon my freedom when I can't just go do what I want in the mountains all day. And it's hard to reconcile that at times, but there's always a path forward and an opportunity to learn and hopefully come back stronger.
Role of Coaching
00:21:05
Speaker
You've been coached by other people before, and I know you and I have developed a nice friendship through our coaching. But how do you, if you were to talk to some people in our audience who have not had coaching, could you describe how you view the coach athlete relationship and why that's been beneficial? Because you obviously know what to do with your training. You know what works for you. You know what doesn't work for you.
00:21:35
Speaker
But nonetheless, you've asked me to help you with your training and to coach you. And so I think it might be helpful for people to just hear like, why did you make that choice? And what do you get out of a coach athlete relationship? Yeah, that's a really great question. Ultimately, it's
00:21:59
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's hard to boil down into one thing. I think about being held accountable. And that by no means means that for some people it might be being held accountable to get out the door. For me, that's not the issue. For me, it's a matter of bringing quality focus to my training, structuring it well, having a plan.
00:22:28
Speaker
And frankly, I mean, we've talked about this a lot of times, knowing when to back off to prioritize recovery, having an objective observer of your process and then being able to communicate clearly between one another.
00:22:43
Speaker
about the process, what's going well, what's not going well, how to proceed forward. I mean, that's what a coach-athlete relationship boils down to. It's not the difference between a 10 by 4 minute workout and a 5 by 8 minute workout. I mean, those nuances might get you an extra 0.10%, but it's having somebody that's on your team, somebody in your corner, somebody to talk to when things are really hard and to
00:23:12
Speaker
help you gain perspective or provide insight or experience into something. I mean, by having a coach, I'm held accountable to talk about and think through my training process so much more. Whereas when I'm on my own, I might tend to look back on things or look forward, but kind of get lost in it a little bit more and not have that objective other opinion in the room, which is so, so important.
00:23:43
Speaker
For me, I feel like it's a partnership. We're kind of a team and I bring some things to the table and obviously you bring the important stuff and I'm there to try to support it. I can't go out the door and do those runs for you.
00:24:01
Speaker
But I do think that the partnership role of a coach is really critical. And having that person who has a different perspective and outside of yourself and can kind of say, no, Mike, that's not a good idea. I think we should reconsider and maybe do this instead. And here's why. That kind of stuff. Because you and I spend a lot of time kicking ideas back and forth.
00:24:26
Speaker
It's like, oh, maybe we should try that and maybe this would work better. I think that's been at the root of a lot of my successful coach athlete relationships is that ability, that partnership and having open communications and trust I think is another really key part of those things.
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah, if you can't have trust in one another, it's hard to move forward from there. Yeah, and to be clear for the listeners, you've definitely told me something's not going to work. You've dropped the hammer on me or given me a hard time due to some poor training choices in the past, and you've stopped me from making mistakes.
00:25:08
Speaker
And, you know, there's been times where you might have quietly been concerned and then I'll learn those mistakes through experience or I'll gain some experience, if you will, due to perhaps trying to get maybe that third long run in a week in a row and I really need to be recovering or something like that. And yeah, I mean, I've learned so much from this relationship due to that.
00:25:32
Speaker
And I learn a lot from the athletes I work with. I think all of our coaches do. I think that's what makes it so challenging and fun and interesting, keeps us moving forward with people, is that we're learning from you as the athlete all the time, too. Because everybody responds to these things differently. And one thing I want to be clear about is I'm certainly not omniscient, and I'm certainly not perfect. I've made lots of mistakes, both as an athlete and as a coach in the past.
00:26:01
Speaker
But that also helps me identify when I see other people making similar mistakes and I can kind of go, I don't know if that's a good idea to go down that road. And sometimes, you know, I'll get pushback even from you and I'll say, okay, well, let's try that and see how it works. And, you know, maybe I'm not necessarily always right about this stuff, but only by having that open channel of communication and the freedom to like,
00:26:27
Speaker
me challenge you and you challenge me on some of these ideas, can we actually come up with what we feel is an optimal program for you? And so far, I think it's been working pretty well. And especially, I'm just very relieved and happy to see you back to nearly full strength. I don't think you're it. You're not firing on all 12 cylinders yet, but you're getting close. Getting close. Just in time for this notify soon. Back to schema season then. Which is fine.
00:26:57
Speaker
Well, what are some of the kind of, are there some takeaways and lessons that you've come away with this from this career so far of things, you know, the people who are just getting started should do and shouldn't do and things they should consider, things that are worthwhile. You mentioned don't get greedy. I know that's one of the biggest problems because
Advice for New Athletes
00:27:20
Speaker
most of the people who are interested in the kinds of activities that we at uphill athlete coach are type A personalities that where more is almost always better and so they're going to be they're going to be a greedy personality they're going to want to do more and
00:27:36
Speaker
It's very rare that we actually have to be that person that kicked somebody in the pants to get out the door. It's usually, like you were saying, kind of acting as a restraint on folks. So I think certainly not being greedy, but I'm sure there are many other things that you've kind of gathered over the years through your experience. Oh, boy. Yeah. I know I definitely, I mean, feel like I have a lot. I think,
00:28:05
Speaker
I think one thing is that to just finish maybe one event can definitely have a lot of value, but having the perspective of trying to have like a long career in a sport that brings wellness to you and growth opportunities is so
00:28:29
Speaker
still much more valuable and I just think that folks need to find goals that truly resonate with them, that really move them and inspire them in a way because if you can't find either an event or a mountain summit or an objective that truly feels like a true challenge and opportunity for you, it's hard to go through the grind. I mean, training for
00:28:59
Speaker
mountain endurance sports is a lot of work and you know i see people who kind of put one foot in and they're like oh maybe i'll try this hundred miler and i i'm not sure i've
00:29:11
Speaker
really seen anybody complete a long mountainous ultramarathon when they were only half committed at the start line. It just, it's such a committing sport and that's the beauty in it. I mean it's to fully commit to something regardless of all the trials and tribulations you'll have is so rewarding. But finding that carrot on the end of the stick that really appeals to you I think is one of the first steps. I mean the second thing is
00:29:42
Speaker
You know, I'm not, I feel like everybody would, I hope answer with this and just, you know, doing what you can do to maintain consistency in your training.
00:29:54
Speaker
injury, you know, going that little bit extra and then getting injured, uh, you know, the net balance on that is pretty bad. You want to make sure that you're able to, uh, move forward and do it all again tomorrow and the next day and the next day. And it's, it's really hard to maybe think about that in the moment. And, uh, when you've got that just massive adventure planned and, uh, you know, if you're, if you're doing that, you just need to honor honor the
00:30:19
Speaker
you know, damage that you're doing to your body and let it rebuild and let it recover. And I think that just we continue in this sport and ultra running to celebrate just, and I love going for big runs and I love high volume and I love how fit I can feel from that, but we don't ever, we so rarely celebrate and discuss
00:30:42
Speaker
The need to recover from those things, how to manage injuries, how all the, all the back end of it. And I think that culturally, um, the more we can shift to that more balanced mindset between the stimulus and the response versus just, just the running, I think, uh, will be a healthier community of runners for it. So I think that those are a couple of things that really come to mind. Um,
00:31:06
Speaker
drink more. And then my third thing is drink more water. Yeah. Well, certainly the, you know, a rehab session in the gym or
00:31:18
Speaker
on the e-stim machine or massage doesn't make nearly as good a social media post as, you know, look at, I'm on top of this summit after six hours. Right, or just sleeping longer or sitting on the couch. We don't celebrate those things as much as we should because they're not that exciting.
00:31:40
Speaker
As you point out, the recovery is where all the improvements come. And I think a lot of people miss out on that idea is that you get stronger not during the training session itself, but after, during the recovery period. And I think that's something that if you don't recover well, you're just going to keep getting more and more tired. And eventually, if you don't become exhausted first, something will break.
00:32:07
Speaker
And then as you just, then you're looking at, you know, weeks to months perhaps of dealing with whatever this thing is that broke. So, but I think that, that lifelong, that, that.
00:32:19
Speaker
Certainly what has been the case for me, having been involved in sports like this since my teenage years, it has been a lifelong thing. And the community of people in these mountain sports is a wonderful one. And for me, I want to stay involved in this. And I'm sure you do too. You're still young. You've got a lot of years. You've got a lot to give back to the sport itself. And you are through the rut race already.
00:32:50
Speaker
But I think that, you know, getting, you know, you kind of have, like you said, you have to jump in with both feet and commit. And if it isn't for you, then that's fine, but you'll probably find out that pretty quickly. And if it is for you, I think for people who do these kinds of things, whether it's mountaineering or ski mountaineering racing or whatever it is, you will find a very accepting community out there that will help you.
Facing Challenges in Mountain Sports
00:33:18
Speaker
And we've certainly tried to do that on an uphill athlete to sort of break down some of those barriers. But I'm sure that many people trying to get involved in taking the first step into some of these sports still feel a great deal of intimidation. And they're like, well, I'm not good enough to do that. I do hear that from people often that email me. But for you, what was the first? You said you got started in a trail marathon, right? That was your first race?
00:33:49
Speaker
the first race I ever kind of signed up and trained for. Yeah. And so that was an actual 26 mile race, right?
00:33:59
Speaker
It was across Catalina Island outside of LA. Yeah, I was living in Steamboat, Colorado at the time. And I was a student, a lift operator at the ski hill and I worked at a library. And I just remember I would, I would get in my runs running around like the streets of the town at night at like 10 PM in the snow. I was training for this hot trail marathon in Southern California. But you didn't decide you were going to go do a hundred mile or your first time out of the gate.
00:34:31
Speaker
No, no I did not. Though...
00:34:34
Speaker
I had not, I would never run a step further than 26 miles when I did sign up for a 100 mile race. So I made a pretty big jump there, but I did ultimately race a 50 kilometer and 50 mile race prior to the 100 mile experience, which was really, really helpful for me. Yeah, you think that is kind of easing your way into it that way is a good piece of advice for people getting started.
00:35:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, ultimately, I mean, there's always outliers, but the, you just set yourself up for success that way. And, and I think that, you know, the a hundred mile distance is quite sexy. And, uh, I understand why people gravitate towards it. However, um, just, just to build that, I always go back to this idea of resiliency, durability, both psychologically and physically.
00:35:27
Speaker
What you need to complete a 100-mile race is challenging. So being able to have experiences to build upon and that confidence to build leading into it just sets you up better. I mean, for me, I'm not sure if I would have completed my first 100-mile race if I had never tried to run 30 or maybe 50 miles once before. But at the same time, there's always unknown. And that's what's so great about it. I mean, so few people stand on the, I mean, I don't stand on the,
00:35:54
Speaker
start of a 100-mile race, like, supremely confident. I mean, I try and bring, you know, experience and humility to it and still, like, strive to do my best and not be afraid, but, yeah, I mean, I think the allure of those long-distance events are just that it's incredibly unknown. You know, if you've run 50 miles and it's the middle of the night, you have 50 miles to go, I mean,
00:36:21
Speaker
It's not often we put ourselves in that scenario and maybe once or twice a year and at the most. And so, uh, yeah, it's just, it's just such a, the rewards from those experiences and the ability to push through fatigue and low points, um, only to feel incredible, um, at maybe 85 miles into a race is what kind of keeps me coming back for more. That's wonderful. I, yeah, I can.
00:36:50
Speaker
I get it, I get it. And I think it's what attracts people. You know, I had a conversation the other day with a woman who is seeking coaching and she's relatively new to mountaineering and then she comes from a
00:37:05
Speaker
kind of an urban background with not any experience at mountaineering, but yet a year or so ago, she hired a guide in Switzerland and went in the mountains and climbed some of the incredible mountains in Switzerland. And it was like an awakening for her. It's like, oh my God, now I get it. I have not even been living my life up to this point. And I think that these kind of transformative experiences
00:37:31
Speaker
one of the beauties of the mountains I believe is that's what they can they offer us is this we're so insignificant and you know we're nothing we're little ants out there on these mountains and I think that you know having the humility to to understand that but then also realize the rewards that come from you know putting yourself in a position where you know like you said you stand on the starting line you don't know what's going to happen 15 hours later
00:38:02
Speaker
You're hoping and you have enough experience, you have a pretty good idea. But I think that a lot of folks will... I think that's one of the things that attracts people to these sports is the fact that you do have to step out of your comfort zone.
Personal Growth through Mountain Sports
00:38:17
Speaker
pretty much the whole time you're there and dealing with all these mountain sports involved dealing with discomfort to one extent or another and for you know pretty extended periods and so it attracts the kind of person who enjoys that and I've been
00:38:34
Speaker
fortunate to have associations with folks like you and and other mountain athletes my whole life and I find them to be an extraordinary people in general and you know some of them certainly my closest relations and friendships have been formed through that so I think that you know that's that for transformative thing for me is so key that's why we do it.
00:39:00
Speaker
And sometimes we set ourselves up for failure because we know that we're going to be really challenged out there and just see if we can pull it off. So what do you have on the, what's on your horizon now?
00:39:15
Speaker
This is something you and I haven't even talked about. So we're kind of all. I know. Yeah, you don't know what I'm going to say. Oh man. I've only just recently realized I have a horizon again. I've been so inwardly focused on just trying to get my body.
Future Plans and Adventures
00:39:31
Speaker
And frankly, it was just my knee, but it feels like that's just enough to kind of keep me a little limited. And I'm just at a point where I am excited. And then also just, I feel like I have quite limited travel. I mean, I'm not flying anywhere right now and all of that. And gosh, I'm just trying to get into the high country of Western Montana as much as possible before the snow kind of locks me out.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah, there's all these obscure world-class routes that anybody who doesn't live here would really have heard about or care about. And for me, I just want to get back into that fun movement up high. And I don't think I have any competitive goals this fall, I don't think, at this point. I'm feeling a little leery about racing.
00:40:29
Speaker
you know, perhaps some obscure FKTs in my neck of the woods that'll just be fun to test myself on. And then, yeah, then it's ski season, maybe a little schema racing. And by no means do I think 2021 will just be back to normal, but I do think that we're going to have a better idea of how to organize events and competitions in a way that feels safe to people. And there'll be a different format. They might be smaller, they might be time trial based, but
00:40:58
Speaker
I'm just really excited for whatever those opportunities hold and I'm constantly just skiing on. I really like to balance formal competitive arenas and then just big mountain adventures. You spoke on a podcast recently with David Gotler and my last trip was with him into Nepal in February and March and just
00:41:27
Speaker
such an eye-opening trip to be hot in the Himalayas, kind of running for two years. Pretty mind-boggling. I've got some big hopes, big dreams at the same time. Now it's just being outside and in my neck of the woods over here, and I'm getting as much as I can.
00:41:56
Speaker
That was quite a little training camp that you and Luke Nelson and David put together in Nepal. I know for some of our listeners, they'll know that David has done that a number of years. And so this was your indoctrination into that type of thing. And I think he had sold you, right? Yeah.
00:42:21
Speaker
spending a couple of weeks in Nepal was just very eye-opening, being able to be with somebody like David who has spent so much time there in the Himalaya. And, you know, that, that blending of, of running alpinism is so appealing to me. I just, whether it's, whether it's that or skiing, I tend to just think anything that involves efficient mountain movement is just
00:42:46
Speaker
really engaging you know moving through big landscapes like that and using a variety of skill sets is one of the more fun practices and processes I could ever imagine and yeah that trip there was just so so just incredible and definitely inspiring and I would get back there and
00:43:08
Speaker
you know, do some more large linkups and runs and whatnot. And it's just, yeah, it's one of the things that's really motivating me right now.
00:43:21
Speaker
Well, I'm sure you will get back there and I'm sure you will get back to these FKT's and all these big projects and to races too. Um, just given time, I think you will come back and be as strong as ever. So I'm, I'm excited for that. Yeah. Thank you. Is there anything else we haven't touched on so far that you would like to, any words of wisdom?
00:43:47
Speaker
Oh man.
Community and Conservation Efforts
00:43:49
Speaker
Put me on the spot. Sorry. Support your local land trust trail stewardship organization. We as runners, trail runners get to utilize open spaces in our backyard so often and
00:44:12
Speaker
It's important that we find ways to give back to them. I could do so much better than I already am, but I work pretty hard to give volunteer hours and what little money I can to the organizations I believe in. And I think that if we all can chip in some of our time and energy, it'll just make these places that we love and explore just that much better.
00:44:38
Speaker
That's a great call. I know that here locally, we have our kind of ninja chainsaw gangs that go out every now and then and reopen trails after the big windstorms and stuff. And sometimes it can be at that level and just, you know, something grassroots like that. And other times it's through an organization and working with the land managers in your area. But I think that's a great, great thing, Mike.
00:45:02
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Mike, for taking the time today to chat with me. I really do appreciate it. And if people want to get in touch with you regarding the RUT, how do they do that?
00:45:17
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, I would say you can just go to the contact form on the rut website and it's www.runtherut.com. So go there. You can learn about the event. And yeah, we'll be opening registration for next year and late winter, early 2021.
00:45:37
Speaker
Good. Well, I bet you're going to have a lot of demand after being sitting down for a year. I think so. Yeah, we always do. And it might even be more next year. We'll see. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Well, thanks again. I really appreciate it. And I know you and I will maintain close contact. Thanks. All right, Mike. Yeah, thank you, Scott. Thanks for joining us today. For more information about what we do, please go to our website, uphillathlete.com.