Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
44. The Art of Pivoting: Krystle Frey’s Path from Professional Dancer to Podcaster
129 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, I'm joined by Krystle Frey, former professional dancer and founder of Pivot Ball Change. We get into Krystle’s journey from student to professional dancer, and how her experiences shaped her path as a podcast host and business owner.
Key topics:
✨Krystle's early dance journey and training in Wisconsin
✨Her professional dance career which started while she was still in high school and included gigs such as dinner theater productions and cruises.
✨The importance of building connections in the dance and creative industries
✨How becoming a mom led Krystle to launch her podcast for creative moms and later expand her business into podcast editing
✨Practical tips for starting a podcast, including monetization strategies and maintaining consistency
My biggest takeaways from this episode included the power of building connections in the dance industry and the reminder that “no” sometimes just means “not right now”. If you need some positive, practical advice to help you keep going in this crazy dance world, this episode is for you!
Connect with Krystle:
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/pivotballchange
WEBSITE: pivotballchange.com
Download your copy of "How to Start a Podcast with Pivot Ball Change"
Links and Resources:
Get your copy of The Intentional Career Handbook
Get 20% off your first order of ALOHA protein bars: https://aloha.com/BRAINYBALLERINA
Be by Jessica Zweig (affiliate link)
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Caitlin and the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I do think it built this strong sense of chasing the dream and going after what you love. And if you really love it, it will be worth it in the end. And you will get a yes eventually.
00:00:11
Speaker
It's just you have to be in the right place at the right time. And the right person has to be looking for you. And it has to be a right fit for yourself as well. It has to be an equal match.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Meet Crystal Fry and Her Dance Journey
00:00:57
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by k Crystal Fry. Crystal is a former professional dancer and the founder of Pivot Ball Change, a business that started as a podcast for creative moms,
00:01:12
Speaker
and has since turned into a service-based company offering podcast editing expertise. I loved joining k Crystal on her podcast, and I am so excited to flip the tables today and welcome her to the Brainy Ballerina podcast.
00:01:26
Speaker
To start from the very beginning of your journey, I would love to hear why you took your very first dance class. Well, Caitlin, thank you for having me. It's an honor to be on your show now, like you said, and kind of flip the script. But my journey into dance, actually, I'm from a very small town in South Central Wisconsin.
00:01:44
Speaker
And I believe the story goes, I was so young, I don't even remember, which is the case for a lot of us dancers. But i think I was three years old and I think I was begging my mom to join a dance class. And I have two older brothers who are significantly older than me. They're seven and eight years older than me. And both of them were jocks, athletes, both played college football. So when it came to me, my parents had no clue. Like they were never exposed to the world of dance. So luckily I had an aunt who knew a little bit. She knew of this studio in a town over and she suggested to my mom that she take me there and try a dance class out. So that was my first experience. I was three years old. It was the little, you half hour ballet class followed by half hour tap class, which amazing.
00:02:24
Speaker
Many dancers introduction to the world of dance. And luckily though, I always think that first teacher of mine, I had her for a few years and she recognized something in me that I didn't recognize at a young age. And my mom didn't recognize either, but she finally pulled us aside and said, i think you've outgrown my studio, which that takes a lot for a teacher to say, to lose a student, to lose some income. And she just said, there's this other ballet school, it's ballet only.
00:02:50
Speaker
It's a little bit further drive. So it was a much bigger commitment from my parents because it was an hour and a half one way in Spring Green, Wisconsin. And it was an instructor, Lillian Wilner, who is still with us today. Thank heavens she's retired from teaching, but she had this prestigious ballet school. You had to audition and she only took students that wanted to study ballet seriously. So I started that at age nine.
00:03:11
Speaker
And that's where my love for ballet specifically began was with her. That's amazing. And then what was your training like growing up past that point? Like I said, I studied with her at her school and she ended up shutting down her school, but she joined Madison Ballet, which Caitlin, I know that you teach with Madison Ballet. no no She joined Madison Ballet as their ballet mistress. And so she invited her students that she had at this school to come join her at Madison Ballet. And all of us had to audition for the school at that time.
00:03:38
Speaker
So I joined Madison Ballet at age 12 and continued to study dance and ballet very rigorously. At about age 12, I did start to branch out into other forms of dance as well. I studied jazz and tap, musical theater.
00:03:51
Speaker
When I was about a junior in high school, hip hop came into the scenes, which I know now hip hop is like what all the youngins want to do, right? But it wasn't a thing.
Crystal's Professional Dance Career
00:03:59
Speaker
Like when we were students, I think we're similar ages, but you could not take a hip hop class at any studio. So I did have a like a very little bit when I was a junior or senior. So I was taking probably anywhere from three to four ballet classes a week and then one to two other dance style classes a week from age 12 I would attend summer intensives which a lot of ballet dancers do I started out going to one that wasn't too far from home in Wausau Wisconsin so that was just a couple hours away but at age 12 for six weeks I left the home and now as a mom myself and I'm sure Caitlin you can relate to this too I think about letting my babies leave at age 12 to I know in no way like I don't know
00:04:39
Speaker
I don't know how my parents did it, but i I absolutely loved it. I matured so much at those summer camps. I spent a summer at Ballet Chicago, a summer at ABT in Michigan. And it's just those experiences. I think back like you are forced to grow up and you're forced to figure things out. And I think your training, too, it's just so versatile because you're getting something different than what your home studios give you.
00:05:02
Speaker
And you're able to bring that back, too. So you're trained and you're improving, but you're also bringing those elements back to your home studio and sharing it with the other students that are your age as well. That's so true. What year did you go to ABT in Michigan? Because I was there a few years, probably around the same time. I remember we we would have to go to Chicago to audition because i think it's it's still like that. You know you have to go to the bigger cities to audition. So I auditioned in Chicago. And of course, I wanted to go to the New York one. I don't know if if you remember, you had to like rank your choices. My last choice was like Detroit, Michigan.
00:05:34
Speaker
that's the one that I got into which looking back in hindsight I should be very very thankful but I think I was 15 so maybe like 2002 or 2003 that's like the exact same time that I was there really yes it be so funny if we were there that would be yeah because I went there two summers growing up and I'm from that area but it was like yeah yeah the exact same time so so funny small small world yes you went through all this very intense training and what was your transition to a professional career like? Yeah, I was really blessed. I started dancing professionally at age 17. So I was still living at home. I was still in high school.
00:06:10
Speaker
I did have the opportunity to go a non-traditional route. Madison Ballet started a professional school when I was a senior in high school. And so there was a lot of talk. A lot of my instructors wanted me to like graduate early and just study dance. And it's such a push and pull for a lot of us dancers is do you go the traditional route? Like I had great friendships at my high school.
00:06:34
Speaker
That was really important to me, but so was dance. I wanted to pursue it as a professional. And so finally, I ultimately made the decision to finish the traditional route. high school career at my local high school and just study after school. But Madison had a professional jazz dance company at the time called Jazzworks.
00:06:52
Speaker
And one of my instructors was the leader of that company. And she asked me to join the company professionally at age 17. So that kind of gave me a little bit of a taste of what the professional world would look like. You know, I was rehearsing weeknights until 10 p.m. And I lived an hour away. i would get home at 11 p.m. and then have homework to do. Would be in bed by midnight up at six, go to school all day. you know, a lot of us are used to that kind of rigorous schedule, but it just taught me what the professional world really looked like. And it also gave me more drive to be like, okay, this is really what I want to do. This is really what I love to do. So it was a perfect fit in the sense where we didn't get paid much. I think we got paid like $50 a performance and we did a few performances a year, but at age 17, like that's a big deal, especially if that's your goal. I was around a lot older dancers
00:07:41
Speaker
They were a great example for me. They had stories to share. I could learn from them. They really ex exposed me to, and I think Caitlin, you do a great job of this, of do you want to go a college route and pursue dance as an education base, or do you want to go the professional route? And here are some options. because As I was alluding to earlier in the conversation, my parents didn't have a lot of background or knowledge. And so they didn't really know what to do with me. They were my biggest supporters, don't get me wrong. And they still are. And Caitlin, I know you and I talk about how our moms are always like our number one fans. So I feel very blessed with that. But they couldn't necessarily give me advice or tell me what to do. So I was
00:08:18
Speaker
Very, very thankful for those relationships that I developed with the more mature dancers in that first company, Jazzworks, that I joined and for their advice and their leadership their kind of paving the way for me and exposing me to different opportunities that I could take advantage of.
00:08:33
Speaker
And then from that company, what was your next step in the professional world? After that, this opportunity kind of landed in my lap. There was a dinner theater opening in Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin.
00:08:46
Speaker
They had been open for six months and one of the singer dancers ended up quitting early and ending her contract early. So they were looking for somebody to fill immediately.
00:08:58
Speaker
And the director and choreographer, again, small world, I had taken jazz classes from him when I was studying ballet rigorously. He was a guest artist that they had brought in from New York and, you know, and he had recognized all this potential in me. And he remembered me from six years earlier and he reached out and just said, hey, are you still in the area? Would you come and audition? And so I had to take the opportunity as all of us dancers know, you just, you always have to be ready and you always have to say yes to every opportunity because you never know where it's going lead to. So and remember I remember had no singing background at all whatsoever.
00:09:33
Speaker
I had been to different camps, like acting camps as a young kid. And all of my instructors would say, you have to be a triple threat. You have to be a triple threat. We hear that word so much in the dance world. You have to be able to sing, dance, and act or play an instrument.
00:09:47
Speaker
I was scared to death. I took choir in high school, but that was the extent of my singing. And I had to go and I had to sing. We had mic packs and there was a pianist and she just started playing something. i couldn't even read music. It was all by sound of what I could do.
00:10:01
Speaker
And the shows were so, so, so rigorous in choreography and tap. I hadn't taken tap in so long and it was just so intimidating and I was in tears. I didn't think that I could do it. But he was like, oh, you're fine. You're great. I had to fit into costumes, which is another thing that us dancers, you know, like, I didn't have a traditional ballerina's body by any means.
00:10:22
Speaker
And so I was trying to fit into these costumes that didn't fit. And so that's like a whole nother thing that when you're on stage, you want to feel comfortable to be able to perform your best. So Anyways, I got through that whole training experience and ah landed that contract. And it was a really long contract. It was a year long contract and it was close to home. It was only about 20 minutes away from my parents.
00:10:44
Speaker
So again, I think that was the perfect storm for me to be able to get into the professional world. I had a really long contract. I became really comfortable. I knew the director and choreographer already.
00:10:54
Speaker
I didn't know any of the other dancers, senior dancers at the time, but we did book shows. So we did musicals like Disney's High School Musical. We did Chicago. We did Footloose. And then we did review shows as well. So if you're unfamiliar with that, we did a book.
00:11:10
Speaker
review of music that was popular from that time. We did like an American musical celebration. So really famous songs by American artists, those type of things. That was my kind of next leap into the professional world was getting into the dinner theater world.
00:11:25
Speaker
Like I said, I was there for, I think a year and
The Role of Connections in Dance Careers
00:11:27
Speaker
a half. And then again, one of my cast mates had worked for Celebrity Cruise Lines. And again, he just said all these people just recognizing potential in me that I didn't realize I had, he was like, you should really, really audition for Celebrity Cruise Lines. I think you'd be perfect.
00:11:41
Speaker
You know, I have an in just put together back in our day, Caitlin, I don't know if you did this, but we had like the DVDs that you would put together and then you would like mail it in the mail. It's so different now.
00:11:52
Speaker
So I had my DVD and my, you know, my eight by 10 headshot and resume and everything. And I sent it to Celebrity Cruise Lines and they hired me right away based off of his word, the dancer that was in the shows with me at the dinner theater. Then I got on a plane Went to Orlando, Florida, and then you learn your shows on land and then got on another plane and headed over to Europe. And I had never even been on a cruise ship before. I had never been out of the country before. So that was another whole whirlwind.
00:12:16
Speaker
But then I ah danced for Celebrity Cruise Lines for a few contracts around the world as well. Wow. And so that's just amazing. I want to just pinpoint, you know, what you're saying here is the importance of those connections.
00:12:28
Speaker
For you, it sounds like most of your jobs came from knowing someone and them saying, hey, you should try this and them giving you a good recommendation. That only comes if you've been you know, a pleasure to work with. And so many people like want to keep working with every job you're doing. I think it's so key to remember for dancers, that job could be already leading to your next job, depending on how that goes and the people you meet. All the work you do is an audition in a sense.
00:12:53
Speaker
Very much so. Yeah, that's definitely a piece of advice that I would give to the dancers is it's not always about your dance skills. As we all know, when you go to auditions, you can be, I lived in New York City for a short stint and would go to one, two, three auditions a day, depending on what I could make it to. But as you know, Caitlin,
00:13:10
Speaker
You are just as talented as every other dancer in the room. You're just as whatever, fill in the word with anything, but they're looking for someone with brown hair and you have blonde hair at the time, or they're looking for someone who's five, four and you're five, six, because the costume's made for someone who's five, four.
00:13:26
Speaker
So I think oftentimes a lot of it is out of your control, but what is in your control is how you present yourself, how you interact with your castmates, how you interact with the director,
00:13:38
Speaker
Are you on time? Are you showing up? When they say, mark it, are you going full out? That was something that I always did back in my day was when they would say, okay, this time we're just going to mark it. Like I would be up there. I would be going full out. And people recognize those things and they remember those things.
00:13:52
Speaker
There is so much dancers need to learn as they pursue a professional dance career. It can be completely overwhelming. Where do you even start? With your intention. To me, this is the first step in defining success on your terms.
00:14:08
Speaker
Once you have an intention for your career based on your core values, you can begin to hone in on a strategy to make your goals a reality. But without it, you will always feel out of alignment, out of control, and ultimately unfulfilled in your career.
00:14:23
Speaker
So how do you figure out what success means to you? With the Brainy Ballerina Intentional Career Handbook. This is not just your ordinary book. The Intentional Career Handbook walks you through it everything you need to think about as you embark on your dance career.
00:14:38
Speaker
With over 50 guided question prompts, you will dive deep into determining what really matters to you in a dance career based on your individual core values. By the end of this handbook, you will not only be crystal clear on your goals, but in the mindset you need to make it happen.
00:14:55
Speaker
Tap the link in the show notes to download your copy today and start pursuing your dance career with intention. From your professional career, transitioning out of that world, what made you decide to start your own podcast for Creative Moms? What was that journey like for you? Motherhood flipped me to the core. I was not prepared for it. I didn't read any books. you know I was just kind of like, we'll give it a whirl. So when I became a mom, my husband and i lived in a small town where there weren't any adult dance classes to take.
00:15:28
Speaker
there just weren't as many opportunities. Like still to this day, we live in this town and I have to drive over an hour to be able to take any sort of class if I want to. And I was craving a creative outlet. I felt like I lost so much of myself once I became a mom. And finally, when our son was about two years old, which I hear that a lot now is when you're about two years postpartum moms.
00:15:52
Speaker
I don't know if you've heard, like you get your pink back referring to flamingos, like mom flamingos, they lose all their their pink color and then once they become like a more mature mom, they they get their pink back. Well, yeah, they lose it because caring for a small child, whether it's a flamingo a human, is so, so hard that it takes every ounce of your energy that you don't even have energy to, like for a flamingo to generate pink feathers, right? Right, exactly. It's so intense. I relate to that so much. So when our oldest son, when he was about two years old, I finally felt like I was getting my creative self back. Like I had gotten my physical self back. I had recovered from labor and delivery. I had gotten my mental health back. That was something that i really, really struggled with postpartum and didn't even know it. I think we don't really realize how much we're struggling when you're in it.
00:16:39
Speaker
But then i was craving a creative outlet and I couldn't figure out what to do.
Transition from Dance to Podcasting
00:16:45
Speaker
So I started doing some research. I started reading some books and i came across this book called Bee by Jessica Swig, I believe is how you pronounce her last name. But it was a really great book and I wrote recommend it to anybody who's just kind of trying to figure out like what's the next right step for me. There's reading, but then there's worksheets that you can fill out along the way. And I'm such like a pen and paper type of person. And that's how my brain generates things. That's actually how I memorized choreography was I would have to go home and I would have to write it down over and over and over again to be able to memorize it.
00:17:14
Speaker
Anyway, this book, it kind of led me to, okay, what do I love to do? What does the world need more of? And then what can I get paid for what I'm good at? So that's kind of the concept that it walks you through. And I was a huge fan of podcasts. I listened to a lot of podcasts and I just thought, why don't I start my own podcast.
00:17:31
Speaker
I can invite moms on, it'll give me a sense of connection, it can be a creative outlet for me. And that's exactly what it was. I loved every aspect of it. I loved reaching out to guests and having conversations and writing the questions with them and just speaking with them too. I think in motherhood, we lose so much connection because we just feel like we're trapped at home with this baby and you can't go anywhere and you can't do anything because it's, you know, they eat and then they have to nap and then you have like an hour of wake time.
00:17:57
Speaker
Well, and we became moms during COVID. Yes. It was exacerbated for us. I mean, you truly couldn't go anywhere. Right. Both of our oldest were born, right? Mine was born right before COVID in December of 2019. Same. Yeah. My maternity leave, I was supposed to return back to work and then couldn't.
00:18:12
Speaker
Again, in hindsight, it was just like, wow, we were in the thick of it and had no idea because we were, we were first time moms. So my podcast was just this life story. source for me, honestly, like it gave me so much energy. It was my own thing that I had that was just for me. And I think as moms, that's a huge thing is all of a sudden, you don't have anything that's just for you. And so you really have to find that. And that's, that's what the podcast was for me. That was what led me to start this podcast too, was wanting more of that connection and just feeling like so connected to the dance world in some ways still, but feeling a little bit disconnected in other ways because a lot of what I do is sitting in my basement, talking to my clients on Zoom, which is really fulfilling and brings me a lot of joy. And I love helping them and working with them. But I also felt like I need to talk to other people in the dance world to be able to help them more, to make sure I'm still learning what's happening now. And because it's like, if you're not really in it as much, you're
00:19:09
Speaker
You can't give as good of advice or have as many connections to help people. And so i really resonate with that feeling of just wanting to like talk to people and and have a human connection with someone and and hear stories and feel like, okay, I'm not alone in what I've gone through. Other people are going through it too. And when my first turned two as well, I felt like I had the energy all of a sudden to get back to things that were fulfilling to me, but i didn't know what that was.
00:19:38
Speaker
Right. Like you said, you're just so in it. It's like you wake up from a dream and you're like, oh my gosh, that past two years was a blur. Yes. So I'm curious for any dancers, and I would love to hear this too, in terms of my podcast and my work and for anybody who's like,
00:19:53
Speaker
Maybe this would be a good creative outlet for me starting a podcast. What do you wish that you had known before you launched your podcast? Oh, so much. I learned so much just from doing it. And I think that's what you have to do. If you're debating starting a podcast or not, my biggest piece of advice is just just hit record.
00:20:10
Speaker
There's so many free resources out there. First of all, yeah there's YouTube videos, there's podcasts that you can listen to on how to start a podcast. I have a free download that literally tells you exactly what to do. It's a seven step. This is the recording platform I recommend.
00:20:24
Speaker
This is the hosting platform I recommend. It would have saved me hours and hours of research. And I just wish something like that would have existed when I started. Someone just telling me, like, this is exactly what to do. Like, this is the microphone you need.
00:20:37
Speaker
Press play, hit record. This is the cover art you need, etc. And another thing i think is I will say podcasting is easy in the sense where, yes, anyone can do it.
00:20:49
Speaker
It's just whether or not you're willing to put the work in because starting a podcast and launching a podcast is the exciting thing, right? We all want to start our own podcast. We all want to launch. It's really exciting. and Everyone's your number one fan at first. You get all these downloads.
00:21:03
Speaker
And then what? I usually see this drop off with my clients around like episode number 20 ish. They run out of guests. They run out of ideas Life happens. Kids get sick. I work with all moms who host their own podcast and I produce their podcasts for them. And so one thing that I wish I would have known is the level of work that it takes to stay consistent.
00:21:26
Speaker
And I wish I would have had some. source, whether it be like a podcast editor, for example, that's what I do now, someone to help me on that back end of things so that I could focus on more of the creative side of things. I consider that my zone of genius is the creative side, the marketing side, the connection side. That's what I love about what my business does today is connecting with new clients, helping them generate ideas.
00:21:52
Speaker
So I wish I would have had some kind of, whether it be you know like a podcast editor or a co-host, someone to hold me accountable. I think an accountability partner is really, really, really key. If you're thinking about starting a podcast, think about the long
Challenges and Strategies in Podcasting
00:22:08
Speaker
game. Are you going to have seasons? Are you going to take the summers off?
00:22:11
Speaker
With the clients that I work with, they're all moms and a lot of us have a lot less childbirth. childcare in the summer. So that's something I always ask them before we start is what is your long term plan? What are you going to do over the holidays?
00:22:24
Speaker
What are you going to do if you want to take time off? So just really, really thinking about the long game. And think about how long do you want this podcast to last? Do you want it to go on forever? Or is it going to be some sort of, you know, you have 10 episodes that teach someone something and then those 10 episodes exist forever. And then you just constantly are recommending people back to those 10 episodes. I think that's a strategy people don't realize that you can do in podcasting. You don't have to have one that releases new episodes every single week because to be able to to stay consistent with that is, it's a lot of work.
00:22:57
Speaker
It is a lot of work. And I was, yes, also shocked by time commitment. And I will say, like, for me, the editing portion, I don't want say it's mindless, but like, it doesn't take a lot of mental capacity. You're just kind of listening and going, okay, take out that. um Let's cut that. That story was kind of repetitive. Let's cut it down a little bit. It's not like it's so much mental capacity, but it takes a long time. And that is something, the number of hours a week that I'd be spending doing that.
00:23:25
Speaker
I did not quite realize. When I started the podcast, I started recording maybe four months before I released the first episode. And I had like eight episodes scheduled. and I was like, oh, I'm so ahead of it.
00:23:37
Speaker
I'll always be this ahead. I'll just keep that going. And then very quickly, it's Monday right now. And I released episodes on Monday. I scheduled my episode for today last night. because that's just how long and it took me to get it out and get it ready. And it's just sometimes I'm very last minute and I hate that I am not a last minute person, but it's just the reality of my life right now. And accepting that that is how it's going to be sometimes.
00:24:01
Speaker
But I definitely agree that if you ah have the capacity to hire somebody like you or, you know, someone who can do those things for you, that is so huge. And knowing you said the word zone of genius, knowing your zone of genius and knowing what you're really good at and what only you can do that no one else can do and focusing on that and then delegating to somebody else's other things is a huge lifesaver.
00:24:22
Speaker
Yes, definitely. And that's something too that I've transitioned into. So Pivot Ball Change, it started as me hosting my own podcast and then now I offer my editing services to other moms who host their own podcast.
00:24:35
Speaker
And since then, I've also hired two editors as well. And that was something that i held onto for so long. And I was telling myself the story that I couldn't hire anyone to do the editing because that was my business.
00:24:48
Speaker
That was what I did. And finally, after getting some much needed business advice of why not? Why can't you hire someone? Why can't you teach someone to do what you do? And Who knows, maybe they'll do it even better than you do it. And that was always something the perfectionist in me, the dancer in me is like, oh, no, no one can do it as good as i can do it. Right. But I've gotten to that point where I now have two editors that work with me and I've taught them my ways of editing and they have ran with it and they do an incredible job.
00:25:17
Speaker
What led you to that transition, that pivot from hosting a podcast to working behind the scenes? I was trying to monetize my podcast and I was really lucky in the sense where I, i say lucky, but there was a lot of hard work and grind that went into it of, I was able to land two sponsors for my show. And again, it was all about connections. And I've told this story before I was watching Shark Tank And there were two moms on there that started their own sock company for dancers. And after doing a little research, I realized that we had a friend in common. And so I reached out to this friend and asked her, any chance, I thought it was needle in the haystack that you would be able to connect me with these women? And she responded and was like, yep, really great friends. Here's their personal cell phone number.
00:26:01
Speaker
I had a phone call scheduled with them and they sponsored my podcast at a very high rate, a much higher rate than you hear about in media terms of what the going sponsorship rate is. for podcasts.
00:26:12
Speaker
And then again, I reached out to another friend who's a very successful entrepreneur. She's a franchisee. She owns franchises all over the country for ballet boutique school, tutu schools. And again, she was willing to sponsor my show at a very high rate. I was so, so thankful for that. So I was monetizing my show, but I wanted to make more money.
00:26:31
Speaker
than what I was making. And I'm very driven. I'm very goal oriented. And so I thought, how else can i use this podcast and turn it more into a business? And so I realized that my editing skills were highly, highly sought after.
00:26:45
Speaker
And I think it directly correlates to my dance background. Caitlin, I don't know if you do a lot of music editing at all, but if you ever transition into more of the choreographer or teacher realm, yeah somewhere along your line, you find that you have to edit music.
00:27:01
Speaker
And so I had edited a lot of music and mixed music for competition. And little did I know that that skill set would directly correlate to podcast editing. And another thing is that with my dance background, we have to hear things that the everyday person whose ear is not attuned to, we're listening to beats and off beats and sounds that people don't hear when they're just listening to music unless they are in the world of music, whether it be, you know, they're a musician themselves or they play an instrument or they're a dancer or something like that. So I think that skill set, I didn't realize how high level I was editing at. And so I started offering those services to people and I landed a huge client, the Herself podcast, and we still edit their podcast online.
00:27:48
Speaker
to this day, it was all referral. Again, going back to earlier in our conversation, once I was associated with this podcast, this high performing, very successful podcast, everyone associated that level of success with me and thought, oh, if she edits that podcast, like she must be good. And I'm not saying that you know, like I myself am good, but again, it's all about who, you know, who you're connected with, who you're associated with.
00:28:13
Speaker
And those two hosts of the herself podcast, they've been my number one fan from the beginning And they still to this day, when I get clients that reach out, they're like, oh, I heard about you through the herself podcast. So again, just referrals. So that's how I transitioned from hosting my own show to then offering my editing services. And then, like I said, I made another pivot about six months ago after we had our second son. And now I'm more in that mentorship role where I'm bringing on podcast editors, and I'm able to hire them and train them. And they are also moms. And that's one of my favorite things about the business is that I'm mean able to provide these creative outlets and opportunities for moms so they can work from home and still continue to be a mom and be the best version of themselves for their family. But they're also pulling in some income as well.
Podcasting as a Business and Income Source
00:28:58
Speaker
Let's quickly pause this episode so I can share with you one of my favorite snacks that I have been loving lately. As a busy dancer, educator, and mom, I am always looking for a snack that I can throw into my dance bag that will be quick, convenient, and provide lasting energy.
00:29:17
Speaker
That's why I was so excited to find Aloha Protein Bars. Aloha bars give me everything I need. With 14 grams of plant-based protein and 10 grams of fiber, I can count on this snack to keep me going.
00:29:32
Speaker
Plus, they are delicious. My favorite flavors are the coconut chocolate almond and the lemon cashew. But honestly, you cannot go wrong. These products are vegan, gluten-free, and certified organic.
00:29:45
Speaker
And the best news is you can get 20% off your first order with code BRAINYBALLERINA. Head to the show notes and click the link to try Aloha protein bars for yourself today. I want to go back to talking with the monetization.
00:29:59
Speaker
I'm curious if you think podcasting could be a viable source of income for dancers and maybe if you could share some monetization strategies that have worked for you or for other clients that you have. I'll be realistic in the sense where I don't think it's going to supplement your entire income. I want to be real with that. I think it takes a long time to get to that level unless you have some sort of an audience already built.
00:30:23
Speaker
So let's say you do have a huge social media following, or you have a huge email list or YouTube following, something like that. Then yes, I do think that a podcast can be a reliable source of income.
00:30:37
Speaker
But if you are someone you know like myself, where I have a very small following, and I don't think you're going to be able to make huge amounts of money and replace your income by any means. Now, do I think it is a great way to make additional income? Yes, I do. And a couple of ways that I was able to monetize my podcast as I spoke about was reaching out to people within my niche.
00:30:58
Speaker
So it was people that I had connections to. So it's not like a cold call. You have some sort of a connection. You build that relationship. You foster that relationship. I had known these people for years or I had been friends of friends for years. And so it's that no like and trust factor.
00:31:15
Speaker
that you hear about. So they either knew me or they knew someone that was close to me. They liked that person. They trusted that person or they trusted myself. So I think that's one way to monetize your podcast. But again, I really don't recommend like cold calling because you're not going to get anything back.
00:31:30
Speaker
Really think about you have a podcast and you have guests on your podcast. or you're planning on having guests on your podcast, do they have a business? If they do have a business, would they have any kind of marketing pool where they would be able to spend money sponsoring your show and then reach out to them and give them your statistics or say, hey, I'm planning on...
00:31:52
Speaker
releasing this podcast. This is what it would be about. This is what's in it for you, right? They're going to want to know what's in it for them. So think about that. Put yourself in their shoes and make it a really easy yes for them.
00:32:05
Speaker
If they can look at your information and say, yes, this is a great fit. It's going to be a whole lot easier to book that sponsor. So that's one way to monetize. Another way to monetize is going that traditional route where you're getting sponsors like you hear on the big podcasts, like BetterHelp, the therapy, online therapy, or Element, which is the electrolyte drink or Viore clothing. Those are some popular ones that you hear on the big name podcasts.
00:32:30
Speaker
Well, they're getting 10,000 downloads within month's time. So to give you some number ideas on a weekly basis, on a daily basis, when they release episodes, they get between 2,000 and 3,000 downloads right away every day.
00:32:44
Speaker
And then within, like I said, within a month's time, they have to hit certain numbers. They have to hit 10,000 downloads to be able to continue with these sponsors. And it's a lot of work. to be able to have those sponsors. There's a lot of back and forth. They send you a script that you have to read. It's very particular. Their call to actions or their discount codes are changing all the time.
Applying Dance Skills to Podcasting and Business
00:33:05
Speaker
So you really have to stay on top of that. You really have to be organized. You have to have the capacity to be able to fit that into your schedule. I know as an editor, that's One thing that I spend a lot of time doing is correlating between our podcast hosts and the sponsors and making sure that we get everything in where they want them, that the timing is correct, that the script is correct. So there is that route as well. But to be realistic, those are what the numbers have to look like to be able to monetize it that way.
00:33:30
Speaker
Another way is, and I recommend this too, before you even start a podcast, if you have something that you can sell that you've created, you can advertise that. Why not? Why not be your own sponsor? So if you have a course or something that you've created, sell that on your podcast because you have a different audience that's not maybe seeing you on social media or they are seeing it on social media. But again, it's about the number of times of exposure that they're hearing about that thing. I think they say that it takes time being exposed to something seven times before a consumer will even consider buying it. So selling can be uncomfortable. And I think it's uncomfortable for dancers because we don't use our voice as our tool for our job necessarily. We use our bodies and our crafts and our mind. And so when it comes to selling, we can be really, really uncomfortable. But look at selling as a service. You're offering a service to someone. You're doing someone a favor by offering them that thing that will make their life easier.
00:34:29
Speaker
So that's another thing is if you're thinking about starting a podcast, I know it seems like a lot of work on the front end, but create that thing that you can sell first and then talk about it in your podcast in a natural, authentic way. And that's going to generate sales as well.
00:34:44
Speaker
Absolutely. And I love that mindset shift to selling to serving because selling can feel very icky and it feels like, oh, I don't want to talk about my thing again. Are people getting so annoyed by it and truly?
00:34:55
Speaker
No, they're not. And i actually heard a stat that it's way more than seven times now because of how our attention spans go and because of your social media. Like I heard that the seven hits of seeing something before you purchase was kind of based on more like ah seen commercials or a or slightly slower paced lifestyle. And now think the times you're on your phone and you're scrolling and seeing something and you are not registering that at all.
00:35:18
Speaker
So for a dancer who's trying to sell either just their dancing, book a job or... sell a product, you might feel like you're talking about it constantly and you're being so annoying and no one wants to hear about it. And I promise you, they are not registering 90% of the time you're talking about it. So remembering that it really is serving, like you are offering them something, you're offering them, you're dancing, you're offering them your product, and it's going to help them succeed in their mission or succeed in whatever they want to do. You're doing them ah favor. hmm.
00:35:50
Speaker
By talking about what you do, the world needs to hear what you have to offer. We need this. So keep talking about it. Yeah, exactly. i would love to hear if you have any more insights into how you feel like your time as a dancer set you up for success as a podcast host editor. but also as a business owner in general?
00:36:11
Speaker
I think the main thing was building resilience and not being afraid hear no. Like you said, I talked about this a little bit with the audition season as a dancer. We go to so many auditions and we hear no, no, no, no. no And I think the hardest thing about the dance world is you don't know why.
00:36:29
Speaker
So not only are you told no, but you're not told this is what you can do better next time or it's because of this. You don't get any feedback. You kind of become numb to it, which is unfortunate, I think.
00:36:42
Speaker
And maybe in this day and age, it's better. But when I was auditioning, it was just like a flat out no. And you left the room and you never heard anything again. Although that was very, very hard and very defeating to hear back in my day as a dancer.
00:36:55
Speaker
I do think it built this strong sense of chasing the dream and going after what you love. And if you really love it, it will be worth it in the end. And you will get a yes eventually. It's just you have to be in the right place at the right time. And the right person has to be looking for you.
00:37:12
Speaker
And it has to be a right fit for yourself as well. It has to be an equal match. And so... When I first started offering my editing services, I had reached out to a client one time and just said, here's my podcast. I do my own editing. If you guys are ever looking for an editor, i would love the opportunity to. And they said no right away. And they did give me feedback on they had just signed a contract with a new editor for six months or whatever it was.
00:37:35
Speaker
But I remembered that and I kept track of it and I wrote it down and i put it in my calendar as a reminder to follow up. and That's key. You have to keep some sort of tracking system of, okay, what conversations have you had? and You have to follow up. You have to stay consistent with them. and so I followed up again. i think it was after that second time that they said, yes, here's a sample, edit it, and then we'll get back to you. We're considering a few different editors at the time. and so That really taught me that resilience and that No is just a no. No is a full sentence and that's okay. It doesn't have to do with me usually. i don't need to take it personally. It usually has to do more with something on the client's end.
00:38:17
Speaker
And so I think the dance world really, really built that up in me to be able to take feedback. And it's all about how you choose to respond to it.
00:38:28
Speaker
So not reacting right away. with something's wrong with me or they must hate me or I need to do this or improve on this or change my look this way. Just taking no and saying, okay, let's pivot.
00:38:41
Speaker
And what am I going to do next time? Or how am I going to follow up? Or how will i reach out to a different kind of client? Or what will this look like so that I can improve upon it so that the next time it is a yes?
Vision and Advice: Balancing Career and Motherhood
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah. Like no is just sometimes a not right now. Right. It doesn't always just mean no forever. So having that resilience to say, okay, I'm going to come back to this. And I love the tracking system. and I do this with my dancers to audition season. I say, okay, write down into the audition and let's make a note of, okay, if I haven't heard anything by this time, I'm going to follow up on this day. So you remember and put it in your calendar because there is a lot to keep track of and you won't remember. I promise you won't remember. There's just too much going on in your life and you don't need to be spending that mental capacity, keeping it in your brain.
00:39:27
Speaker
put it in your calendar, that an alarm. It's so much easier. I'm curious what you feel is your long-term vision for Pivot Vault Change. Where do you see this going the future?
00:39:39
Speaker
That's a great question. And it's something I love to think about. I'm a dreamer and a creator. And even looking back to where it started, I would have never thought that it would end up where it's at today.
00:39:52
Speaker
And it is still something that I do part-time. So I would love to be able to take it full-time. And that's the end goal is to have it be a full-time business. And like I said, the latest pivots that I've made, I've made two hires and i would love to be able to get them full-time work. Both of them are working part-time right now. So I would love to get to the point where I step almost fully into that CEO role where I am just checking in And I'm able to create these opportunities like I talked about earlier for moms where right now both of my hires are editors. So they're editing podcasts.
00:40:30
Speaker
But right now what I do is I do the marketing side of things where I'm meeting with clients, I'm booking with clients, trying to get new clients. And then I do all of their onboarding and I do their launching.
00:40:41
Speaker
of their podcast if they're releasing a new podcast. So eventually someday I would love to be able to get my two team members to be able to do that part of it as well, to train them to be able to do the launch, to be able to do the initial meetings with these clients, booking so that again, I'm stepping back and looking at it from a lens of how can I create more opportunities and create more jobs for moms that can stay at home and have some sort of source of income where they feel like they're contributing to their family.
00:41:09
Speaker
And they're doing something for themselves outside of motherhood. Another big dream and vision that's been on my mind for a long time is i would love to host an in-person podcast event in the Madison, Wisconsin area.
00:41:23
Speaker
There are events like this all over the country, but nothing in Wisconsin. I went to one event yesterday. Earlier this winter, where it was podcasting, it's a marketing association in Madison, Wisconsin, and they had put on this event, but it was the first one of its kind that was podcasting specific.
00:41:39
Speaker
And I just think podcasting is all online. And we had talked about earlier, Caitlin, that it's so much about connection, but there's no way to connect with these people in person. That's a dream that I'm working on. And i would love to be able to have an event where I bring all my clients together.
00:41:53
Speaker
bring in all of our listeners together and we can learn from each other. It's a go-to resource where if people have podcasting questions, it can be this annual event that people can get tickets to.
00:42:04
Speaker
and be able to learn the ins and outs and the changes because the podcasting world is constantly changing. So that's a dream that I'm, that I'm working on right now, kind of behind the scenes that I would love to be able to launch. And like I said, have it be an annual event where we get together and connect all about the podcasting world and have that place in Wisconsin that people can go to.
00:42:24
Speaker
Well, I love that. Sign me up. I'm so in As a fellow mom, how do you feel like you are managing all the things? Because just this morning, saying to my husband, I'm little overwhelmed.
00:42:35
Speaker
I think I put too much on my plate. You said earlier, you you have to always say yes to everything. As a dancer, you have that. And I feel that right now of wanting to say yes to a lot of things because I'm really excited about them. And I think they're all really cool and fun. And I want to do all of them. And then realizing maybe I've said yes to too many things.
00:42:53
Speaker
So I guess I'm curious just if you have any advice as a mom, but also just as a busy woman who wants to do a lot of things. Dancers, we're constantly busy. We're doing so many things. We have so many passions. What's your advice for managing that?
00:43:06
Speaker
That's the million dollar question, right? With dance or business owners or as moms, something that is built into us dancers is to say yes to every opportunity because we don't know when the next opportunity is going to come. But something that I've worked on and as I've gotten older is Being patient with myself and not being afraid to take a little time before giving an answer.
00:43:31
Speaker
That's been really key is that i used to rush and just respond. And I would hear about something like you said, Caitlin, I totally relate to that. Yes. Sounds great. Sign me up. Well, then. I go back and think about what the reality of that would actually look like as far as am I going to have childcare or do I have margins in my schedule? That's something that I've gotten better at is when you have kids, you you have to have margins in your schedule because things come up, they're sick all the time, daycare gets closed.
00:43:59
Speaker
If it's not one thing, it's the next thing. So making sure that you have some margins in your schedule and being patient with yourself and understanding that people don't need an answer right away.
00:44:11
Speaker
So even if they are requesting an answer and they need it in a timely fashion saying, thank you so much for thinking about me. I would love to consider this opportunity. Is there any way that I can get back to you by and then give them a date and really give yourself, I say almost like a week's time because over a week you can figure out the logistics.
00:44:30
Speaker
If you do say yes, what logistics need to be in place to be able to say yes Or is it just not going to work at this time? And we had talked about that earlier in the conversation. Maybe if you have to say no this time,
00:44:43
Speaker
letting them know why and saying, would you consider me in the future? Or at this time, it would be a better time in my life that I might be able to take advantage of that opportunity. So as a mom and as a busy woman, i don't think there is any right or wrong answers.
00:45:00
Speaker
There will be ebbs and flows throughout your life where you can take more on and you can have more capacity. And I've learned that throughout my last four years of entrepreneurship is that At certain times, my plate is so full that I've wanted to just drop it and let it crash to the ground and to a million different pieces.
00:45:17
Speaker
And instead of that, what can I take off my plate and set down for the time being? And the most beautiful thing about entrepreneurship is that your business will always be there for you because you built it.
00:45:29
Speaker
So whenever you're ready, you can pick it back up and you can scale it forward or you can scale it backwards however you need to because it's your thing. You created it. It's your baby. And that's what's so beautiful about having your own business and being an entrepreneur.
00:45:43
Speaker
if people I needed to hear that for sure. That helped me today. And it's so true. Like saying yes to something is saying no to something else. And that's something I'm really trying to remind myself of. Every time I do take an opportunity, that does change my capacity to do the other things that I want to do. And realizing that, yes, you can say no to something right now and it doesn't mean that door is closed forever. And there is that fear that can kind of sneak in there and make you feel like you're never going to get another chance. But as we both experienced,
00:46:11
Speaker
If it's meant to be, it will come back around. Last question I have for you. What advice would you give to aspiring dancers who are pursuing a professional career? The advice I would give is to not give up.
00:46:23
Speaker
The thing about the dance world is that most of your work will be contracted work. So you will have ah hard start date and a hard stop date. And those in-between times can feel really, really frustrating because you have to go back to the drawing board, you have to audition again, and you don't know where your next work is going to come. And that can be really scary.
00:46:45
Speaker
So having something for the in-between, and this is something that I wish... I would have been more okay with when I was performing. I always thought that I had to have a book schedule as soon as one contract ended. I wanted my next one already lined up and the one after that. And I think I learned over time that it was okay to take breaks, train during the off season so that you are ready when the next opportunity does happen.
00:47:08
Speaker
ah arise, always be ready. So always be training, no matter what you're doing. If you're in your off season and you're working a retail job or you're working as a waitress, that's okay. That doesn't say anything less about yourself, right? You're making ends meet as an artist. And sometimes that's what you have to do. Don't ever look down upon those things because who knows what will become of that opportunity. I think a lot of times you meet people who are also working in the business of dance at those jobs. And again, going back, they might have some sort of connection that you wouldn't have even dreamed about. So if you love it enough and you stay consistent and you follow up and you bring your best self forth for these jobs, continue with it, follow your dreams, ask for help when you need help, have conversations with those that have paved the way before you.
00:47:57
Speaker
And people love to share their knowledge. And so let them share their knowledge with you and let them be a resource to help you. Reminding yourself of that in the times where it seems like you're out of work and you're never going to get your next job. It's out there. It's coming. You just have to be patient and know that it'll be there for you when you're ready and when they're ready.
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah. Amazing. If anyone listening wants to learn more about you or your business, where can we find you? I am most active over on Instagram and my handle is at pivotballchange or my website, which is pivotballchange.com.
00:48:32
Speaker
Okay, perfect. Thank you so much, k Crystal. This was a great conversation. i really loved getting to connect with you. Thank you, Caitlin.
00:48:41
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:48:54
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:49:07
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.