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58. Plot Twists: Holly Dorger’s Rise to Principal Ballerina of the Royal Danish Ballet
100 Plays19 hours ago
In this heartfelt and inspiring episode I sit down with Royal Danish Ballet Principal Ballerina Holly Dorger - a childhood friend whose dance journey has taken her from suburban Michigan to the royal stage of Copenhagen.
Holly’s path has been anything but predictable. From training at the School of American Ballet with dreams of joining New York City Ballet, to unexpectedly being offered a contract abroad, Holly opens up about how she began her professional career at 18 with the Royal Danish Ballet.
She shares candid reflections on everything from finding personal healing through dancing roles such as Giselle to what it’s like to be knighted by the Queen of Denmark. We talk about the challenges of building a life in a foreign country, what it's like to grow artistically over nearly two decades as a professional, and how she brings authenticity and emotional depth to every performance - especially the ones rooted in human experience and vulnerability.
If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to build a career abroad, channel personal pain into performance, or face the question of "what’s next?" after reaching the top, this conversation is a must-listen.
Key “Pointes” in this Episode
🩰Holly's early days training in Michigan (where we first met!)
🩰Moving to NYC at 14 to train at the School of American Ballet
🩰The path that led her to Copenhagen and the Royal Danish Ballet
🩰Her favorite roles (hello, Giselle, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, and anything Balanchine)
🩰Processing personal heartbreak through performance
🩰The perks of dancing in a European ballet company
🩰What it was like to be knighted by the Queen of Denmark
🩰Facing the reality of forced retirement and dreaming of what's next
Connect with Holly:
WEBSITE: Www.HollyDorger.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/hollydorger
Links and Resources:
Visit the Ballet Help Desk: https://ballethelpdesk.com/
Get your copy of The Intentional Career Handbook
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
The Artistry and Vulnerability of Dance
00:00:00
Speaker
probably the layers and depth of artistry, allowing yourself to be that vulnerable on stage. But it's funny because it kind of sneaks up on you.
00:00:10
Speaker
It's not like we ever got acting classes or i think you just, as you grow older and accept more and more who you are you become more and more confident in that.
00:00:22
Speaker
You sit in it and then you show it. And it's kind of like, take it or leave it. The more you can just be, And experience and feel and then give back.
00:00:33
Speaker
I feel like that's the the secret concoction to really enjoying and and growing yourself to develop.
Launching the Brainy Ballerina Podcast
00:00:42
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need succeed in a dance career on your terms.
A Day in the Life of Holly Dorger
00:01:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Holly Dorger. Holly is a principal ballerina with the Royal Danish Ballet. And I have known Holly since we were kids dancing in Michigan, and I am so excited to reconnect today. Holly, will you paint a picture for us?
00:01:34
Speaker
What time of day is it for you? Where are you? Did you have rehearsal today? set the scene. Yeah, set the scene. Okay, I'm in Copenhagen, Denmark. We have a beautiful sunshine day.
00:01:46
Speaker
It's four o'clock in the afternoon and actually I had the day off today. So I tried to be a Viking and I went winter bathing with my boyfriend.
00:01:59
Speaker
Wow. What's that? So they're pretty hardcore. The Danes have a ah tradition of going in the sauna and then hopping into the ocean. And you do that three times. When I first moved out here, i was like, never. I'm never doing that. That's crazy. Like, it's freezing.
00:02:19
Speaker
We live in Scandinavia. But I have to say, i love it. They got me. hey I do it now. And I love it. It feels so good on the body. So um I had a show of Don you on Saturday.
00:02:33
Speaker
so the recovery. Yeah. yeah. Amazing. Okay. I love that. Okay. Let's go back to the beginning of your dance journey. i would love to hear why you took your very first dance class.
The Roots of Holly's Ballet Journey
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. I have to give all credit to my mom on that one. ah my mom has always loved ballet. She did it herself, not professionally, but she just even throughout her adult life took ballet classes. And so when I was born,
00:03:02
Speaker
She was taking ballet classes and she would have me sit in the corner and I would just watch. And that kind of led to the next thing, which led to the typical every you know three, four year old little girl wants that tutu and wand. And that was exactly me.
00:03:20
Speaker
So my mom introduced me to ballet, 100 percent. And can you share about what your training was like growing up? Yeah. So, i mean, you and I were together for, gosh was it like 10 years at least?
00:03:35
Speaker
Something like that. I don't even
From Highland Dancing to Ballet
00:03:37
Speaker
know. yeah So i was born in Dallas, Texas, but I moved to Michigan when I was about four years old. So right around the time when ballet really entered my life.
00:03:48
Speaker
Then you and i went Cornelia School of Dance around Detroit, Michigan for years. And then I did Highland dancing on the side.
00:04:00
Speaker
i would almost say more my first love of dance than even ballet. I would compete every weekend and travel with my family. and I 10, I became the United States champion for Highland.
00:04:13
Speaker
I was going to say, you say you did on the side, but you were like. yeah maybe ballet was on the side. It's the opposite. Yeah. I loved Highland dancing. i loved it. bagpipes.
00:04:24
Speaker
I don't know. It was so set in, yeah, the competition side of it. I loved Highland. And then when I was about 11, have to be 12 to go to Worlds. So I was too young.
00:04:36
Speaker
and there's not as much of a future. in Highland dancing as there can be in ballet. And so ballet started to become more the focus. And then when I was 14, auditioned for SAB, School of American Ballet, summer program.
Challenges at SAB and Joining the Royal Danish Ballet
00:04:54
Speaker
And that kind of started the ah way to to New York. No, I was sorry, I moved to New York at 14. So at 12, I went to the summer program.
00:05:06
Speaker
That's right. How many years did you go to the summer program before you ended up year round? So two two years and then you moved to New York. Okay. Yeah. Two years. Then I moved to New York. Yeah. And when you started doing, you know, balancing training, that kind of thing.
00:05:21
Speaker
Was it like an instant love for that style? What did you feel? i have to say yes, instant. It really refreshed ballet for me because as much as the classic ballets and adagio and all of that is so beautiful,
00:05:38
Speaker
I'm the type of dancer that I can bore myself while doing adagio. i can be like, why do I have to like eight counts to get my leg up? like Like Sleeping Beauty. i learned the pas de deux this past season.
00:05:52
Speaker
And I remember I was out like on count three. And they were like, no, no, no, no Holly, you have like 16 counts.
00:06:00
Speaker
I just remember being like, okay. So I really clicked with the speed of Balanchine, dancing fast and really enjoying the challenge of that and not having necessarily ah story, even though I love dancing story ballets now.
00:06:19
Speaker
There was something that really captivated me about like just me dancing that I love. And how did you feel about moving away from home at 14? would say it was definitely mixed emotions.
00:06:31
Speaker
Of course, I was super excited to be asked. And, you know, it's a dream come true moment. But there is that thought of, well, should we wait till next year? 14 is really young.
00:06:43
Speaker
Maybe I would be a stronger person by 15. I know my parents definitely had opinions about, and they didn't agree. i think they like had a lot of arguments over this decision, but ultimately I am really grateful that I went and that we went all in, but it was a challenging move.
00:07:05
Speaker
So at that age, are you staying in the dorms? I did. i stayed in the dorms. Yeah. In New York, there were, I think, is like eight girls in a room? Like everybody has their own bed and all that, but like in the suites.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. How do do you feel like your training at SAB prepared you for your professional career? I definitely 100% give complete credit to SAB for technique and stuff.
00:07:34
Speaker
I would not be the dancer I am today if They hadn't instilled that, especially the legs, that repeat, repeat point work. Oh my gosh, I loved Suki Shore's point class and Katrina Killian.
00:07:48
Speaker
You learn to play, like with music and timing, you get strong because they demand it from you. For me, it sparked a curiosity. so I was always curious of like, there's that challenge. Okay, you did two pirouettes, but can you do three? Like they would kind of challenge you and I really loved that.
00:08:07
Speaker
So definitely give credit for technique, ballet technique to SAB. There's some amazing teachers out there. Yeah.
Cultural Adjustments in Denmark
00:08:14
Speaker
Coming out of your senior year how did you land your contract at Royal Danish Ballet? Were you hoping to stay New York?
00:08:22
Speaker
I was. i was ah full scholarship kid at SAB. Yeah. The year before I did Choleric and Four Temperaments, there was a lot of promising signs for me to be hopeful to get into New York City Ballet.
00:08:38
Speaker
But I didn't, as it goes. And they had pulled me aside before audition season had really started, like in early January.
00:08:51
Speaker
And they said that Nikolai Huber spoke to Peter Martens and they... made a deal, kind of. Nikolai was gonna leave the New York City Ballet as a principal dancer and take over the Royal Danish Ballet as the director, as he is Danish and coming home and all that.
00:09:10
Speaker
And he wanted to bring kid kid back from New York to help introduce or more introduce the style of Balanchine to the Danish company.
00:09:21
Speaker
And that was me. But the deal was kind of, i wasn't given like a choice. And maybe Peter didn't want me at all, right? Like it's one of those things I'll never really know. But the universe pushed me in this direction and I ended up coming to Denmark. But at first I was actually really devastated.
00:09:40
Speaker
I definitely had big hopes and dreams to be in New York City Ballet. So I was really shocked and didn't see all the good at first when I was offered Denmark.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah. What was it like starting your professional career in a foreign country? Were there some big learning curves you had to overcome in the ballet company, but also just in your daily life? Yeah, definitely.
00:10:02
Speaker
i was lonely. You know, he' going from like a dorm where you're used to kind of always somebody coming in or coming out or, you know, just it's always active in the dormitory so then move across the ocean, new language, new culture, no friends. The only person I knew was Nikolai Huba.
00:10:23
Speaker
And I lived by myself, which maybe looking back was a mistake. It was really lonely. and will say there's good English in Denmark. like It's incredible. Everyone really does speak wonderful English.
00:10:37
Speaker
But it's a different culture, right? So... Things run different. Things close a lot earlier, like 4 p.m. You have to call the doctor between 8 and 9 a.m. That's the only time you can call the doctor. like There's just weird differences that you don't expect.
00:10:55
Speaker
And there are conveniences that I take for granted in America that they're just not over here. Interesting. yeah What was your rehearsal schedule like? What was your dancing schedule like? Was it very different from SAB?
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, rehearsal schedule here is, we're very fortunate. We have class from 10 11.30. And then you like 10 minute And then 11.40 1.30, you have the chunk. and then eleven forty to one thirty you have the first chunk Then you have lunch from 1.30 to 2.15.
00:11:25
Speaker
And then 2.15 4, you have like the second chunk. And then some days from 4.15 to 6.15, they can call you for overtime, which they actually pay you extra to do.
00:11:37
Speaker
It's a nice schedule. You finish by 4. I mean, you usually stay in the gym until 6 anyways because you're stretching or doing an exercise whatever. Whatever. But the work-life balance thing really is a thing here in Denmark. And all branches try to give that to you.
00:11:55
Speaker
Can you talk any more about some of the, I guess, perks of dancing for a European company versus companies in the States?
European Companies' Benefits for Dancers
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the first one that jumps out is you get a pension, which is like unheard of, I believe, in the U.S. Unheard of.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, right? Unheard of, honestly, even now for like a corporate job. What? Well, my dad didn't, but like my father-in-law had a pension, but like my husband will never see that. That's not something they're even doing anymore for any kind of job.
00:12:24
Speaker
So that's really incredible. Wow. That's a shock. Okay. Wow. Yeah. yeah So over here, when you turn 40, you're forced to retire.
00:12:35
Speaker
So that that has a pro and a con. Like some people are ready to retire and some people could keep going for two or three more years, but you don't really have a choice. Like, because we're government employed, the government said 40, so it's 40.
00:12:49
Speaker
At least with the Royal Danish Ballet. You could continue dancing outside of the Royal Danish Ballet. But with the Royal Danish, 40 years old. But then you get a pension for the rest of your life. And I mean, it's not enough to, like, just sit back and, you know, drink coffee during the day. But it definitely helps, of course. And when you have that transition period of,
00:13:11
Speaker
okay, I've been a ballerina for 20 years. Now what? You have a cushion to lean on, which is, i mean, that's a huge gift. So that's definitely a big... Yeah.
00:13:23
Speaker
I want to get into that area, you know, that kind of transition and everything. Because I didn't realize that 40 is not so far away for you, right? No. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about that in a minute. But I want to still learn more about your beginnings yeah with Royal Danish Ballet. So what was your first major role that you danced?
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, okay. My first solo was I did de... Was it Pas de Trois Pas de Cat? um In Swan Lake. I think it was Pas de Cat.
00:13:53
Speaker
Might have been Pas de Trois. ah so But I did that. That was like my first solo. And then i did Lead Marzipan, Bluebird, and then Gamzadi.
00:14:05
Speaker
And then after I did that, I got promoted to soloist. So those were like some of my first... big opportunity roles. And how did you feel <unk> opportunities? Were you nervous? Were you excited? What was your emotion around that?
00:14:19
Speaker
Ooh, I was, I'm for sure sure're probably nervous, but excited because I think when you especially move countries to dance, You feel a bit like, yes, like I'm doing it. Now is the moment, like show them.
00:14:35
Speaker
We made it this far. You literally crossed the ocean. You've been waiting for this moment. Get out there and do it. So as nervous as I probably was, i am the type of person of, as soon as I stepped foot on that stage, now I'm having fun.
00:14:51
Speaker
So I'm sure the nerves blurred into just joy as soon as I stepped out there. Let's pause this episode so I can tell you about one of my favorite resources for dancers, Ballet Help Desk.
00:15:04
Speaker
If you've been loving the Brainy Ballerina podcast, you'll want to add the Ballet Help Desk pod to your list. This is the premier podcast for dance parents and hosts Brett and Jenny share weekly extra expert insights on supporting your students' ballet education.
00:15:21
Speaker
They cover key topics like summer intensives, ballet competitions, full-time and post-grad training, health and wellness, boys in ballet, and more to help your dancer make the most informed decisions about their unique training path.
00:15:37
Speaker
Another one of my favorite resources from Ballet Help Desk is their reviews. Head to their website for over 1,400 reviews on summer intensives and year-round training programs.
00:15:48
Speaker
And while you're at it, submit your review to help other dancers and their families make important decisions about their future. The more transparency in the dance world, the better. Head to the show notes to visit the Valley Help Desk website today.
00:16:02
Speaker
How did you find out that you were promoted to principal? To principal?
Promotion to Principal Dancer
00:16:07
Speaker
Principal over here, they have a, it's a very beautiful tradition. but it's a lot.
00:16:13
Speaker
I was dancing theme and variations balancing. like, think it was my second to last show of theme. And what they do is you do your show.
00:16:25
Speaker
and then during the bows, then my boss at the time, Nikolai Huba stepped out in front of the curtain and he had a microphone on and he spoke Danish. He said a really beautiful speech, like calling me a a diamond in the company. And And then he said, she is now our new principal ballerina of the Royal Danish Ballet.
00:16:47
Speaker
And then there's a big dun-dun-dun-dun-dun from the orchestra and you get a huge bouquet of flowers and they send you forward and back and you bow and they stand and it's marvelous. It's overwhelming. It's honestly also, there's a part of it that's awkward because you are standing in front of the rest of your company where you know,
00:17:10
Speaker
There is half the people wishing it was them. Some of them think you don't deserve it. Some of them support it. So, I mean, it's a lot of emotions. For me, it always feels like it's a really big moment, of course, but for the people who are there and for the theater versus I've always wondered.
00:17:30
Speaker
i think I would have been... equally just as excited if my boss had called me into the dressing room and been like, Skol, you're a principal now, like, keep going, just keep doing your thing. And I'd been like, gotcha.
00:17:44
Speaker
So I don't know. It's a lot. And it's beautiful, but it is a lot. Did you have an inkling that was going to happen that day or was it a complete surprise? You're supposed to say it's a complete surprise.
00:17:56
Speaker
That's what they kind of prep you to say. i mean, come on. If you've been doing principal roles for two, three years, I'm like, it's an insult to my intelligence to be like, I had no idea.
00:18:08
Speaker
i didn't know it was going to be that night. I had an inkling that it would be on that production because theme and variations, Balanchine, Holly, New York. I mean, it just, it made sense.
00:18:22
Speaker
I had done Swan Lake. I had done like Swan Queen. I had done Etudes. I had been doing lead role after lead role. I didn't expect it but I was hoping for it. Otherwise i would have a decision to make.
00:18:36
Speaker
Like, should I stay? Should I go? You know, but you don't know when. Yeah. What has been your favorite role that you've danced in your career? i guess I have some categories. Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
I think the one that surprised me the most was Giselle. It wasn't a ballet that I really grew up watching. Of course, I knew what it was and I've seen clips from it, but I didn't know how powerful of a ballet it really is and how much really everyone can relate to it.
00:19:06
Speaker
That sweet innocence of falling in love and then that betrayal... I really think everyone has been through something that stings in the heart. And that's exactly what Giselle goes through. And then she chooses forgiveness.
00:19:22
Speaker
So like, I love that arc and what you hope you do in your own life. Like that one really touched me. i really love Giselle. But then on like a flip side, i think I've never had more fun than Alice.
00:19:38
Speaker
She had so much stage time, so much acting, interesting steps. Like we did Christopher Wieldon's version and there were some turns that I'd never tried before in my life. And I really got determined Cause I saw the, the Royal ballet with Lauren doing it. And I was so blown away by her that I was like, I want to do that too. And so I would come in on Sunday and just practice those turns over and over and over try to make sure I could do it as well.
00:20:08
Speaker
And then of course balancing, like any balancing ballet, as soon as it's announced in the rep, I am like jumping up and down. So excited, so excited that we get to dance those steps because I think he's a magic. I think Balanchine is magic.
00:20:24
Speaker
What's your process for getting into one of the story ballets for finding your character? i take my own life and try to like lay it on the floor. i have found the most therapeutic way to deal with a traumas or the plot twists that life throws you is to put it into especially a story ballet.
00:20:48
Speaker
The more vulnerable you can allow yourself to be up on that stage, you're healing yourself, letting you tap into those inner scars that you wouldn't necessarily just open up and say to the random stranger, but because you're dancing it, you're not using your words. It's somehow even more personal and yet kind of still protected because they're only interpreting what you put out there versus me saying a fact. Story ballets are a gift.
00:21:18
Speaker
just a gift for surviving life's plot twists.
Channeling Personal Experiences into Dance
00:21:22
Speaker
Are you comfortable sharing any specific examples of a time you've used something from your life to yeah kind of inspire your character?
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. I went through ah very bad divorce, very bad divorce about three years ago. And I was an open wound on that stage.
00:21:43
Speaker
And like the Day before opening night of Giselle, I was in divorce court. I mean, it was ugly. It was raw. He wouldn't sign the paperwork. I couldn't get out of it.
00:21:56
Speaker
turned into a nightmare. And just to be literally experiencing that betrayal ah like real life, of like, this is actually what's happening right now, to then go out on stage.
00:22:10
Speaker
I cried on that stage. You could see I was crying like in the end. That definitely, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry, Holly.
00:22:20
Speaker
Plot twist. Yeah. It's all good now. But I do love that advice, you know, of taking those things that you're feeling and dance can such a powerful way of just a cathartic experience.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. Like you said, of being able to use that spur whatever it is you you need to feel, like leave it on the dance floor. Yeah.
00:22:43
Speaker
therapy. Yeah. yeah You need real therapy too, but well and start not just you and everyone.
00:22:54
Speaker
It's always a good idea. Yeah. Do you have a dream role that you haven't danced yet that you would like to do? Oh, I love playing human. Like, I love the Giselle. I love the Ketri. I love the, but I've never done Juliet.
00:23:12
Speaker
I've never done Mannon. And I've never done Onegin. So I think some of these big human characters, I would love to interpret and tap into.
Favorite Roles and Future Aspirations
00:23:24
Speaker
Are those ballets that Earl Danish does on the rep? Romeo and Juliet, yes, but it's been it's been a little while. Onegin, we haven't done for like 18 years, like a really long time.
00:23:37
Speaker
And Menon, we did when I first joined the company and I was the mistress, which was super, super fun. But we haven't done it again for at least 10 years. They're not ones that come as often.
00:23:49
Speaker
You don't see them really in the States at all. No. I've only seen those – well, I've seen Romeo and Juliet in the States, but, you know, on a and Egan and Manon, I've only seen in Europe. Like, you just don't see them as much here. yeah Hey, you know, they're big ballets and costumes and the whole emotional spectrum.
00:24:07
Speaker
But then I also would love to do, like, Coppelia. I just love those variations. I think she's cute. She's happy. Just looks like fun dancing. and then anything Balanchine. anything, I'll do it I would love to do it.
00:24:21
Speaker
Having been with the company for so long now, the style is Bordenville, correct? Like the traditional style. So how do you feel like you have, I guess, acclimated to that style?
00:24:33
Speaker
you still feel like you are Balanchine at heart? I mean, I will say whenever Balanchine comes in the rep, that feels like going home. Like it just makes sense. The heads, the way you tilt the head, it just falls into place. The musicality, ah just clicks.
00:24:49
Speaker
Bourneville, it's more round and soft and the head to me is always going the wrong way. But it's very sweet, especially the girl roles are just usually very, very sweet.
00:25:01
Speaker
I enjoy the jumps. i like to jump. Petite Allegro. I find you can make it so clean. And I love, I love clean. So I definitely enjoy them. But to be honest, I do certain roles in Bournenville, but I've never been cast in other roles.
00:25:19
Speaker
For instance, La Sylphide. I did it when I was in the Corps. I've done it in galas all over the world as the main sylph. But here in Copenhagen, I've never been the sylph.
00:25:31
Speaker
And I don't think they seem, like I don't think I ever will be necessarily. I don't know. I get the feisty ones. I get the like the lover or the slut. The one that's like a bit of a character.
00:25:45
Speaker
ah do Teresina. She's always considered quite feisty. I do Beerta, the troll. Like she's crazy. They cast me in that category i'm a little bit more than the romantic category.
00:25:56
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. ah You do a lot of guesting and that kind of thing too. I've been very lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I get to do a few galas a year This past Christmas, I got invited to Palermo to dance their version of the Nutcracker. i mean, I was so excited. That was a huge honor.
00:26:19
Speaker
it was kamikaze, but the best thing ever. and then throw on, I was really sick. Like, I was so sick. You know when you fly and your ears just never unpop and your head gets... And then I couldn't stop coughing.
00:26:35
Speaker
And then add, it's on a rape stage, 5%. And the coda was fuete turns. I mean, I was like, can I do this? But I did it. And I loved it They were amazing.
00:26:48
Speaker
Is your stage at Real Danish raked? No. No. Okay. Yeah. That always blows my mind. i i Oh my gosh. I used to say I would quit ballet if I had danced on a rake stage and then Palermo called and I was like...
00:27:03
Speaker
um come in I will dance on a rake stage. It's scary. you have to you yeah The weight thing is real. Promenades, that was weird. Because you would have to start by pushing your weight back, but then halfway kind of push it forward and then go back.
00:27:18
Speaker
Those were weird. Fuentes were okay because you just... kind of put the spot a bit higher and just remember that keep your weight back and then once you go you go okay well that's like my my go-to is I always tend to be too far back so I feel like I should just go dance on a rake stage and then I would probably be fine that's so interesting a really fun fact that I love about you is that you were knighted by the queen of Denmark yeah can you share about that experience Yeah, I remember i was 26.
Being Knighted by the Danish Queen
00:27:51
Speaker
I had just gotten promoted to principal and I received a letter in the mail and it was in Danish. And at this point, i would say I'm i'm pretty good Danish.
00:28:03
Speaker
I've become a Dane. I have the passport and all that, but i still am not the best at Danish. No matter how hard I try, yeah. So I got this letter and I read through it and I was like, I think that's what that means.
00:28:19
Speaker
I remember being like, do they still knight people? Like that's still a thing? like am I reading this right? And it it was. Yeah. So you you meet the queen one on one. Now we have a king, but it was a queen.
00:28:33
Speaker
i was nervous. I really wanted to speak Danish to her. And i did but the one thing I did forget is that the palace, all the floors are like marble and i had brand new high heels on.
00:28:49
Speaker
Oh my, it was so slippery. but i took the tiniest like penguin steps to get to her. And I was so embarrassed. Like it took me for, it felt like forever get up to her.
00:29:03
Speaker
and then, you know, she's sitting down and she's all elegant and she's like, you know, I love coming to the ballet and blah, blah, blah. And And then you're not supposed to turn your back.
00:29:14
Speaker
So then all the way, penguin steps backwards. Oh, my gosh. I had that, like, awkward smile on my face. Like, I'm so sorry. This is taking me so long. I just, I'm trying not to fall down.
00:29:27
Speaker
my God. I really was trying to open the door, but without turning my back. But I couldn't find the door handle. And I was like, she must be laughing about this. Like, oh, gosh.
00:29:39
Speaker
I was very embarrassed. But... it It was very sweet. That is really, really funny and really cute. And I love that. So like, does it come with a certain honors? Like, do you have anything important now that you have to do? or You get a medal, but you're only allowed to wear the medal in the presence of the queen.
00:29:59
Speaker
ah So you don't wear it I mean, it's on my shelf and I love it, but that's where it stays. And then there was one day where we were told the queen is coming and she wants to meet the dancers after the show.
00:30:15
Speaker
And so I was like, oh, I can bring my medal. But because I was in a ballet costume, i wasn't allowed to wear the medal. So I've never really gotten to wear the medal, but have the medal.
00:30:26
Speaker
And fun fact or funny fact, you actually have to pay for the medal. I didn't expect that. What? Yeah. And then when you die You can't like keep it in the family.
00:30:41
Speaker
You have to give it back to the state. Do they give you your money back? Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a an honor, ah of course. And, you know, I'm super humbled to have it. But ah there's a few funny like catches, like you're writing a check.
00:30:59
Speaker
That's so interesting. Yeah. Wow.
Aligning Careers with Personal Values
00:31:04
Speaker
There is so much dancers need to learn as they pursue a professional dance career. It can be completely overwhelming.
00:31:10
Speaker
Where do you even start? With your intention. To me, this is the first step in defining success on your terms. Once you have an intention for your career based on your core values, you can begin to hone in on a strategy to make your goals a reality.
00:31:27
Speaker
But without it, you will always feel out of alignment, out of control, and ultimately unfulfilled in your career. So how do you figure out what success means to you? With the Brainy Ballerina Intentional Career Handbook.
00:31:40
Speaker
This is not just your ordinary book. The Intentional Career Handbook walks you through it everything you need to think about as you embark on your dance career. With over 50 guided question prompts, you will dive deep into determining what really matters to see you in a dance career based on your individual core values.
00:31:58
Speaker
By the end of this handbook, you will not only be crystal clear on your goals, but in the mindset you need to make it happen. Tap the link in the show notes to download your copy today and start pursuing your dance career with intention.
00:32:13
Speaker
Let's talk about what's next for you in your career. So I think that's so interesting that you were saying earlier that you have a forced retirement at 40. How far away are you from that? I'm five years away. 35. Okay.
00:32:26
Speaker
So how are you feeling about that in the grand scheme of things? I feel like in the course of ah our dancer career, that's still a pretty big chunk because our careers are so short to begin with, but it's still something I'm sure you're thinking about. What are your thoughts for what's next for you or yeah how you're going to navigate?
00:32:42
Speaker
ah Yeah. It's one of those big questions. In many ways, I feel... better than ever, artistically developed more and technique-wise feel I'm even more confident when I step out. So in many ways, I don't feel ready to even start thinking that way.
00:33:01
Speaker
but I can feel they're bringing up the younger generation and they start saying things to you like, well, we want to push the younger generation. So we're going to kind of like hide you a little bit here. So we give more opportunities there and it starts getting in your head a little bit. And part of me thinks that's kind of sad because I think both things can happen at the same time, but there is an underlying like,
00:33:30
Speaker
hard reality of, of course, the next generation is going to be the one to replace you. And it's starting now. I always thought I had a few more years, though. I thought like 38, 39 would be when it started happening. But you can start to feel it already now.
00:33:47
Speaker
There's a famous or one of our dancers or somebody once said that, you know, ballerina dies twice. And I really like to view it more as, you know, a ballerina gets born twice.
00:34:00
Speaker
Ballet obviously is a huge thing in my life. And I will always be doing ballet, whether it's teaching or just dancing myself or finding little projects. But I do also think there's a lot more in life than ballet.
00:34:14
Speaker
And I think when we're so hyper-focused on one thing... we cut other opportunities without even necessarily knowing that we're doing it because we're obsessed with this thing. It's not like we don't want to do it. We love it. We were dying to do it.
00:34:30
Speaker
But then what happens when that is taken away? Maybe some of those other opportunities you're going to love just as much. You just didn't know it yet. So I'm trying to remain pretty open about it all.
00:34:44
Speaker
I'm excited. i think life pushes you in directions and you grab those opportunities and like surf those waves and I dream of being an author one day i would love to write a book I already dabble with teaching and I really really enjoy especially like teaching the the kids maybe continue that but I don't know maybe I would go back to school or maybe I would don't know but I'm open.
00:35:14
Speaker
ah Do you see yourself staying in Denmark? I mean, at this point, let's say it's been 17 years. Truthfully, it could go either way, because I feel like you never know. And of course, my family is in America, my mom and dad and brother, and they're getting older and all that jazz. So you always are attached to your home country.
00:35:37
Speaker
But at the same time, my My life's here, right? My connections are here. My friends are here. And if they're not here in Denmark, it's in Europe versus America. is I mean, I would love to dance more in America. I think it would be so fun to be on home soil. But my life has brought me over here and it can be hard to get opportunities so far away, you know?
00:36:00
Speaker
So we'll see. What are some of the things that you like to do when you're not dancing?
00:36:07
Speaker
ah but What do I do? I feel like I'm always up to something. But now that you ask me, like I'm always running around. I'm like a little busy. these tu tuoo tu to do I do teach a lot.
00:36:20
Speaker
i really do. Between five and seven classes a week. I love the winter bathing. Kid you not. I i' really adapted that. We try to go about twice a week. I do write a lot. Right now it's more like journal and that stuff.
00:36:34
Speaker
genre, but you'll find me quite often sitting typing. course, I read sometimes, go for a long walks, coffee, have a beer.
00:36:45
Speaker
One thing that I love to ask people, because I feel like, you know, you look at a dancer like you with this illustrious career, and you're amazing and beautiful and all the things. But like, we all have times where we mess up or we make a mistake or whatever things happen. We're human beings. So I'm curious if you have any like,
00:37:03
Speaker
Maybe funny or just maybe interesting stories about times or something's gone wrong for you. Hmm. When it comes to the actual shows, like, I mean, knock on wood, usually those somehow, i call it stage magic.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like, There's something magical and it comes together and yes, but there's been some good rehearsal mistakes. I mean the classic, like right now we're doing Don Quixote, you bet I've dropped that fan.
00:37:30
Speaker
Even not even trying to open it, I just dropped it. but There was no reason to drop it. I remember in Apollo, this is a long time ago, but there's these like chugs and I went the wrong way compared to everyone else.
00:37:44
Speaker
But that was just kind of funny because then, you know, you all of a sudden face each other and you're like, why? One of us is wrong. I mean, of course, I've fallen. I've fallen down. remember i was doing a rehearsal of That's Life from Twyla Tharp's Come Fly Away. And I was running backwards in heels and I just completely wiped out, like on my back, on my butt, dressed in the air. We were in rehearsal, so we could all just laugh. It was really funny.
00:38:11
Speaker
Actually, you know what? I think the worst thing I've ever done to myself, it was again a rehearsal, but i was playing Birte, which is the crazy troll in the Bourne-in-Ville Ballet, of folktale.
00:38:23
Speaker
And she has a tantrum and she's like hitting the floor. You have a lot of freedom. You can do more or less what you want. And so I like to throw both my arms and both my legs and kind of land on my tummy and then like do like a two-year-old tantrum.
00:38:40
Speaker
I hit my head. on the ground, I gave myself a concussion. my gosh. Yeah. And I didn't tell anyone because I was so afraid. Don't do this. Like, please tell people. But I was so afraid that they would pull me because I gave myself a concussion. I didn't tell anyone. But like the wiggle of the brain,
00:39:00
Speaker
You can feel that. Scary. That was scary. Oh my gosh. Luckily, the next two days after I did it, i didn't have any rehearsals. So I just kind of laid low.
00:39:12
Speaker
And I kept quiet. I love that you can laugh at it now and all all the stories. I think that's such an important part of this career is being able to laugh at yourself because things happen.
00:39:26
Speaker
A hundred percent. hundred percent. If you can keep comedy in the room, that's the best atmosphere to really blossom in. And my former boss, Nikolai Huba, he was really good at that. He would tease you, but you could also tease him back.
00:39:40
Speaker
So there was a really comfortable dynamic that just, at least for me, Yeah, you just grew and blossomed and wanted to give everything because it was just so much fun. In 17 years as a professional dancer, how do you feel like you have grown and changed from where you were 18-year-old
Embracing Vulnerability and Growth
00:39:58
Speaker
Holly?
00:39:58
Speaker
Probably the layers and depth of artistry. Allowing yourself to be that vulnerable on stage. But it's funny because it kind of sneaks up on you.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's not like we ever got acting classes or I think you just, as you... grow older and accept more and more who you are you become more and more confident in that you sit in it, and then you show it.
00:40:23
Speaker
And it's kind of like, take it or leave it. The more you can just be experience and feel and then give back. I feel like that's the the secret concoction to really enjoying and and growing yourself to develop.
00:40:39
Speaker
Okay, last question for you.
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:40:41
Speaker
What advice would you give to an aspiring dancer who's pursuing their professional career? I always like to say, no matter what plan like you think it's going to be or the route that you think you're going to take or you think that school is going to get you into that company and da-da-da, it never works the way you think it's going to work.
00:41:01
Speaker
like There's always a plot twist. Life always will throw you a curveball. The fun thing is is that it could lead you to somewhere even more exciting than you could have ever predicted.
00:41:13
Speaker
So like, keep going, because you don't know what seems to be like a downer could just be putting you on the right path for something you would have never imagined. So keep going.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah. I would love to read your memoir, Plot Twist. I feel like that's your... Plot Twist. You said that a few times. Yeah. Just because I've been hit with some that I'm like, okay, what? Yeah. But you you've navigated them all so gracefully and it's just been such an honor as someone who knew you as a kid to see you now as a grown woman and following your career has been very special for me
Reflecting on Holly's Career and Community Engagement
00:41:49
Speaker
to see. so ah Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. And I've just really loved getting to see you For anyone who is listening, who wants to learn more about you, where can we find you?
00:41:59
Speaker
You can find me on the gram, Instagram, just hollydorger. i have a website if you are in Copenhagen and can come to a show where I try to keep my performance dates as updated as possible. And that's also just hollydorger.com.
00:42:13
Speaker
Perfect. Thank you so much, Holly. This was wonderful. Thank you, Caitlin. So good to see you. you too.
Closing Remarks and Community Invitation
00:42:22
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe.
00:42:35
Speaker
By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus your reigns help others discover the show too.
00:42:48
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at The Brainy Ballerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.