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51. Balancing Art and Admin: Toby Lewellen’s Transition from Dancer to Director of Development at Boca Ballet Theatre
2 Plays2 minutes ago
In this warm and candid episode, I chat with Toby Lewellen about his path from reluctantly signing up for ballet class as a child to spending 11 years as a leading artist at Ballet Arkansas.
Though he originally saw it as a stepping stone, Toby stayed for over a decade, drawn in by the community, repertoire, and opportunity to dance featured roles. He shares behind-the-scenes stories about partnering with his wife onstage, why being an ugly stepsister in Cinderella was a career highlight, and what led to his graceful transition out of performing after an injury.
Now in a new chapter at Boca Ballet Theatre, Toby discusses his role as Director of Development, the challenges and rewards of teaching, and the unique structure of Boca’s summer intensive—where dancers gain rare, extended access to top company directors.
Key Topics:
✨Toby’s training at Peoria Ballet, Grand Valley State University, and Butler University
✨Joining a company with just three dancers (!), and being part of its growth over the course of his professional career
✨The realities and rewards of dancing in a small company
✨The importance of mental health and community in a dancer’s career
✨The unique programming Toby is a part of at Boca Ballet including their summer intensive and college dance fair
Connect with Toby:
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/tobias3651
BOCA BALLET WEBSITE: bocaballet.org
BOCA BALLET INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/bocaballet
EMAIL TOBY: tlewellen@bocaballet.org
Links and Resources:
Get your copy of The Intentional Career Handbook
Set up ticketing for your next event with DRT (Make sure to mention that The Brainy Ballerina sent you!)
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at caitlin@thebrainyballerina.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You know, there's just those days where you roll out of bed and you're like, I can't today. I don't want to look at myself in the mirror. I don't want to critique everything. i don't want someone to sit there and tell me that I'm not good enough at this, this, this, this.
00:00:14
Speaker
Some days, if you're not in the mental state, it's hard. And so that's where the community and knowing that you can walk to the room and your mental state can improve because the people you're around.
00:00:24
Speaker
If you're in a toxic environment, your mental is only going to go more. Because even all of us in the best environment still have those days where it's just like, i need a mental health day. And as dancers, that's one i don't think we talk about.
00:00:37
Speaker
We need a mental health day.
Caitlin's Journey and Podcast Vision
00:00:38
Speaker
And what we do is hard.
00:00:42
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brand New Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
00:01:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Ballerina Podcast.
Toby's Dance Beginnings and Journey
00:01:19
Speaker
I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Toby Llewellyn. Toby was a professional dancer for 11 years at Ballet Arkansas, and he currently serves as the Director of Development and on faculty at Boca Ballet Theater.
00:01:32
Speaker
Toby, I'm so excited to reconnect with you today, and let's start from the beginning of your dance journey. Why did you take your very first dance class? Yeah, good to see you. Long time no see. For those who don't know, Caitlin and I went to college together, Grand Valley, for one year. One year, yep.
00:01:45
Speaker
We'll get to that. I started dancing very first class I ever took dance-wise was a tap class because my sister refused to go in without. And I did it for a year and I was Pinocchio in Sequins Lederhosen and I hated it by the end. I was done.
00:02:01
Speaker
then I didn't dance for a year and then my sister did the Nutcracker. and i got to go backstage at not crack and that's when my eyes were open to this is way more than just like sequence and and recital like this is a thing so started taking ballet i was nine so was eight or nine when i saw the nutcracker and next year i was like, I want to do that.
00:02:18
Speaker
And then so I was a party boy. And I was like, well, I want a better part. and they're like, well, if you want a better part, you have take class. So that was the beginning of the end. And what was your training like growing up? I did normal high school. but I went to school all day. And i was usually at the studio by like 430, Monday they through Thursday.
00:02:34
Speaker
We didn't have classes on Fridays because they kept us all day Saturday. And I was usually there from 430 to 830 or And you were at a pre-pro ballet school? Yeah, it was Peoria Ballet. It's still, I think they're 40 something years old now.
00:02:47
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, it was a pre-pro school. i mean, we had our divisions and you have some like it wasn't really recreational but was more like we're here for ballet this is we didn't do competitions outside of we did't grand pre when i was there I don't know if they still do. It's been a while since I've been home.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. So we were very much ballet focused. mean, we took our jazz on Saturday mornings and that was like, that was it. Yeah. How did you decide to attend college, Fredia? was not forced.
00:03:14
Speaker
I was gently nudged by my parents that that would be a better idea. I didn't really have the desire to go to college. I wanted to dance. And I went to Milwaukee Ballet for the summer and I got MB2, Milwaukee Ballet 2. And my mom was kind of like,
00:03:27
Speaker
We'll support you, but we won't support you. And so it came down making the decision. Am I going to go to college? Am I going to dance? And that's when I ended up at Grand Valley because I was so late getting stuff together because I didn't want to go to college.
00:03:40
Speaker
But Jefferson knew me because I went to Blue Lake. And so I'd known Jefferson, who was head of the department at the time, since I was 12. and so we kind of had a back and forth back and forth and i came and took one class and i got into the department and it was like okay this is what i' do like and go to grand valley and i'll work with jefferson i know him i like him it's fine that's how I ended up at Grand Valley for the year.
00:03:59
Speaker
But then when Jefferson said he was leaving, that was like my whole reason for going. so I was kind of like, I wanted to go to Butler in the first place, but because I was so late getting stuff together, i missed the last audition in Butler was a weekend we had shows.
00:04:11
Speaker
so it was like, you either choose to perform in your senior ballet or you choose to audition for a school. And I chose to perform. it's like, we'll figure that out. And so when I got the chance, I transferred. went ahead and did it all on my own. Didn't really talk to my parents about that one. it' was just like, I'm going to go down and take the train, do a weekend.
00:04:28
Speaker
actually got snowed in in Indianapolis and had to call Grand Valley and be like, I'm going to not be there. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I guess it was a pretty easy trip from Grand Rapids to Indy, right?
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. It was like a four hour train ride. Yeah. So it was easy. And then I could go and take class on Monday. It was supposed to be back by Tuesday, but the trains weren't running because they got like three feet of snow. Yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
And of course, Grand Valley would still be opened. Oh, yeah. We didn't close. We didn't close. I remember the Super Bowl. We got a phone call the Super Bowl Sunday that year saying there was a snow day tomorrow. freaked out we never got to yeah I remember that too.
00:05:03
Speaker
That was partially the reason for transferring. It started snowing in like October and it didn't stop snowing until April. I was like, this is ridiculous. I know. And it was rough as freshmen having to walk across the entire campus from our dorms. It was better post-meshary year. As you got older? Yeah.
00:05:19
Speaker
But that year was the hardest. Yeah, so much of campus in the snow every day. Mm-hmm. Because the dance studio was kind of far away from our dorms, wasn't it? It was the exact opposite end of campus. which Yeah, that's why I thought. Gigantic. It was maybe like a 15 minute walk. But when you're walking through.
00:05:34
Speaker
That's why i we would end up staying in Flo's house on the weekend. So I only had to walk across the street. That's true. There were like three dorms that just happened to be right next to the dance studio that one of the dancers we were friends with lived right there, right?
00:05:47
Speaker
us and Fernando at Giradano now. Yeah. Okay. So when you went to Butler, what was that experience like
Training and Professional Experience at Butler University
00:05:56
Speaker
for you? Did you feel like being there really prepared you for your professional career?
00:05:59
Speaker
Oh yeah. Butler, the way they treated us, it was company life. Like you had your academics that you kind of knocked out in the morning, but starting at noon, 1220, we had ballet class and the rest of the day until six, I was in the studio every day.
00:06:11
Speaker
And when I transferred randomly enough, I transferred in and I was the only boy in the incoming class that year Really? Which was really weird. So I kind of had this weird spot where I was a transfer. So I was at the same age as the other guys. But because I went from a state school to a private school, I basically dropped back down to freshman status.
00:06:27
Speaker
I had all my electives done. My electives for my entire college career were done by the time I got there. But I had to drop back. I ended up making friends with my class. My wife was in my class at Butler.
00:06:38
Speaker
um So I wouldn't have transferred. I wouldn't have met her. All those sliding doors. Yeah. Yeah. and now one Yeah, and she ended up coming to Valley Arkansas. She did a year in Sarasota and then came to BA. Butler was good. I learned how to like work.
00:06:51
Speaker
It was kind of like i I had gone through most of my like high school stuff resting on my laurels of being a boy. I mean, I'm harder on the guys now because of that. um like i know how easy your path can be just to get through and people are just going to let you kind of eke by and It's fine because you're a boy and we don't want you to quit. Looking back, it's like, I wish they would have been a little more like they were with the girls with me.
00:07:12
Speaker
Because I did. I got away with murder. I'd like senior year. I just started skipping class. I was like, I'm not going to go this week. They're not going to do anything. Right, there's no understudy. there's no It's high school. like They're not going to do anything. They're going take my part away. I'm just going to skip this weekend.
00:07:24
Speaker
It's prom. I don't care. And of course, yeah, like you said, if a girl did that, we would be out of the peace. It's a double standard. Yeah. Because even at Grand Valley, there was only like five of us. Yeah. Like five or six.
00:07:35
Speaker
I saw you did Lars. I haven't thought about Lars in so many years. I know. I saw your podcast playing with Lars. I was like, oh my gosh, he was such a baby. i Well, yeah, and him and Jordan were in high school. So they weren't even technically...
00:07:48
Speaker
college students yeah that's right so they were maybe yeah i think six so six including the high school kids yeah Yeah. And so Butler I went to and there's 22 boys. And I am now the new guy.
00:08:00
Speaker
The only new guy. I have no one to rest on of like, this is my group. Nah. So those first few weeks until I knew people, the goofy Toby in the back of class that could chitchat, it just didn't happen.
00:08:12
Speaker
Like the seniors are trying to get jobs. It's a whole different game that we've entered into, which was good. It was, pushed me. I mean, I had pushback at times because ah didn't like being pushed. It was harder, but.
00:08:23
Speaker
It's what I needed, I think, when I needed it. And I wouldn't have gotten Valley Arkansas if I wasn't at Butler because the head of the department of Butler knew the woman that was working at Valley Arkansas and on the board. And so it was like, we need a boy.
00:08:34
Speaker
They came and watched class. I remember they set up a chair in the corner by my bar spot. And I'm like all like nervous through bar. And I'm like, no one's coming. It's still empty. All of bar, no one came. um was like, ah okay, I guess they're not coming. And then they walked in for center. And I'd like let my guard down a little bit because I thought they weren't coming. and then I was like, and they watched all the Center and then we met afterwards and they offered me a contract.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I had Nashville Valley too, but this was full company and pay was just a little bit more, just a little bit, not much. It was one that I was like, okay, this is full company and I'll dance. It's one year, I'll get a company experience and I will move on.
00:09:08
Speaker
Why did you think you would move on after a year? I mean, I had my own preconceived notions about Arkansas. Yeah. Unfairly to the state that I learned to love very much and the community I have.
00:09:20
Speaker
which is i think half the reason i wanted to stay so long. The community I found there was amazing. Also, by mean, my wife, Amanda, she came after my first year, she joined us. And then there was another girl from Butler, or Leslie, that we all danced together. So we all knew each other. We were very comfortable.
00:09:34
Speaker
And it was one like my first company meeting in Ballet. And so it was me, Leslie and Lauren. There were three dancers. That was it. Because there was some upheaval and some changes happened and people left. Wait, so you joined the company and there was three dancers?
00:09:47
Speaker
Well, when I joined, I thought there was eight. And when we got to our first company meeting, we found out we dropped down to the three of us, two incoming and one that was staying. Wow. That first year was kind of like we ended up with five.
00:09:59
Speaker
And so we did. i mean, we did Nutcracker with three boys. Did you have a large school? How did you pull that off? Valley of Arkansas uses community casts. So they bring in kids from studios throughout the community and now they have a school of their own that they pull from. But I think it's still a community cast aspect because they like community involvement.
00:10:15
Speaker
So we had kids that would do like horror and snowflakes. We're all like high school kids and we filled out the leads And then my next year, the company ended up becoming seven. Next year, we next year were 14.
00:10:26
Speaker
fourteen And now I think they're sitting at 16 or 17 dancers. I was going to leave. And that's what i was saying. It was going to be wanted and done because i just it was company experience. i was going to go to something bigger and better. Every dancer has that dream. I'm going to go you know dance on this massive stage and do that thing and then i kind of learned that i was happy with where i was i was getting to dance a ton and i was realistic with who i was and like if i go to like a bigger company i'm not going to get to do what i'm getting to do especially i didn't want to go backwards so i was like i'm already getting to do soloists and lead roles i really don't want to jump back into the core because like now i've been here for five years but coming in it's always that scary i remember the one year i really thought we're going to leave this year we're going to leave and
00:11:05
Speaker
then michael beard and who was the director at the time, who's now at the head of the department at Oklahoma, came in and said, so next year, we're gonna talk red. We're gonna do the concert version of Balanchine's Who Cares?
00:11:16
Speaker
And I was like, okay, I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying. I grew up with teachers that loved Balanchine and I'd seen Who Cares. And it was like one of my favorites because it's got that jazzy kind of easy aspect to it.
00:11:27
Speaker
And it's partnering. It's all partnering. I mean, there's a little solo, but it's partnering. And that's what I love. That's what I was always best at. Yeah. So I got to do Who Cares, which was amazing. So then the next year, like the rep kept growing.
00:11:39
Speaker
It was like, okay, next year we're going to Wielding. Next year we'll do DeMille. Then we're bringing in like Flockworth. and all these different contemporary choreographers. And so our season bill was so varied. Like once you got done with a classical show, it was like, okay, we're going to roll around on the ground for the next six weeks.
00:11:53
Speaker
And it was like, so I never felt like stuck in my like fulfillment of what I was doing. Cause I like classical, but the older I got, the more I fell in love with the rolling on finding the motion, taking them and playing with it, you know, where you have your technique, but then you find a comfort in yourself where you're like, I loved it when the choreographers came in and said, well, what do you think you can do from this position?
00:12:15
Speaker
Well, I don't know. Let's see. Well, how do you get out of it? Let's see. And it was that kind of like play. It became play. Where classical, yes, it's play, but it's not that kind of play not the like where your brain is constantly going what it's okay okay i've got this girl in this position this is the picture they want okay how can i get what they want like with classical is very much just spit out at you like this is what you're gonna do here you go right which is fine and i like a good you know swan lake don't get me wrong i love it but as the older i got i realized the contemporary didn't hurt as bad
00:12:46
Speaker
yeah It didn't hurt as bad. Depends, depends. Depends, yes. Some of the heavier stuff. But I was always just the ox throwing a girl around. You put me behind a woman and I'm the most confident dancer you will ever see. So what was it like dancing with your wife?
Partnership Dynamics in Dance
00:12:59
Speaker
Did you partner a lot? We did. We did R&J together. Odile Siegfried. or Odette and Siegfried, we did White Swan. Because then when we were a BA, they didn't have quite enough dancers to do full builds.
00:13:10
Speaker
So we did Actu Swan Lake or Don Q Sweat. We did Pata Dess Sweets. This year, they got to do Swan Lake with a full orchestra, which bore power to the company. That's fantastic. I'm a little jealous, but no, we danced together a lot.
00:13:23
Speaker
I like dancing with my wife because a lot of the connection came easy but at times It's also hard because you are dancing with your wife and your partner. And you know if you have a crappy rehearsal, you might go home.
00:13:36
Speaker
you know It's harder to separate the two. And I feel like sometimes when you're so close that the littlest tone can be read the wrong way, with youre just like partnering with a friend it's kind of like, okay, they can just forgive you.
00:13:47
Speaker
They don't take it so personally. i mean, don't get me wrong. I love dancing with her She's wonderful, easy to partner, and we do work well together. But yeah, there are moments that we had our pushback in the studio.
00:13:57
Speaker
yeah Might have gotten awkward for other people. That makes sense that you have such a close relationship. Well, yeah. And even when you think about dancers, our job is just so kind of like intimate anyway. And so like you've got people in the mirror critiquing how you're interacting with your partner and you're already struggling with each other.
00:14:14
Speaker
and then it's like all eyes are on it so then you feel like you're in a fishbowl. It was hard at times but I mean we made it work. I mean I danced a lot with the other one of the dancers that's still there Meredith and we had a whole different like we could do anything.
00:14:26
Speaker
We had this relationship kind of the same but different with Amanda like the total trust was there. I knew where she was going to be she knew where I was going to be. It was like the consistency. We worked well together. I kind of got partnered with anyone that they needed switching around but that was i mean we also only did have six guys.
00:14:40
Speaker
So we still had the decent work as the boys. Yeah. Do you have a favorite role that you danced in your career? I have a few. total not dance related. Just one of my all time favorite times on stage is Stepsisters and Cinderella.
00:14:53
Speaker
Being an ugly stepsister was just, there's a freedom to it. You could fall on your face and just ham it up. If you trip over your skirt, trip over your skirt.
00:15:04
Speaker
It's one of those that anything can go wrong on stage right now and it doesn't matter. which as a dancer is so rare for us. There's always the pressure of like, I have to be this character. Even if the steps are easy, I want to portray the role where it's like, I just get to be a ham. And my best friend, Paul was the other stepsister.
00:15:21
Speaker
So it's like, we just got to be two total goofballs in rehearsal all day. Like the second we put the skirts on for rehearsal, like it was game one. Toby and Paul are gone. The ugly ladies are in the house. Watch out.
00:15:34
Speaker
Yeah, I got to do stuff, sisters, too, at MCB. And we, me and my friend Nikki. Or the Seth sisters. And it was, i agree, so fun. We call ourselves Bink and Bonk. And that was like our alter egos when we got into that role. And i yeah one of my favorite experiences. It's just one of those where you're just like, yeah, you get the freedom to fall on your face on stage. And that's fine.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yep. Other ones I did, we did The Great Gatsby. And I liked being, I can't think of his name right now. George. George is the one with Myrtle, the guy that owns the garage that ends up shooting Gatsby.
00:16:05
Speaker
That was fun. That was one where Meredith and I were George and Myrtle, and we had a paw where we were basically fighting it out in the kitchen. And at the end of that, she like runs in the street, and that's when she gets hit by the car. Sorry, spoilers for no one that's read The Great Cats in high school.
00:16:20
Speaker
And it's just one of those moments where they what they did with the lights, I'm chasing her, and the whole stage goes black except for the side light in my face, which is like the headlights of the car. And then I get to have a whole solo where I lose it.
00:16:31
Speaker
And that's one of the few times where I lost it on stage. Like I went into the wings and had to just sob because you you bring yourself there and it's like, okay, now I have to just stop.
00:16:42
Speaker
What? This is hard. But it worked because then you're in the wings and you're kind of tight. And then I have a gun and I have to go shoot Gatsby. So it's like, okay, work with it. But it's like one of those emotional ones like you're fighting. We were dancing, but we were fighting. I hate to say it. She did have a slight whiplash because we went for it that night.
00:16:58
Speaker
That one was a lot of fun. And that was one i mean, we got to do some classical stuff, but it was still very in the contemporary realm. I enjoyed those ballets like we did Sleepy Hollow and Dracula, the ones that are like their stories, but they're less like this is what everyone does.
00:17:11
Speaker
But yeah, Gatsby was fun. And then the other one, I mean, R&J with Amanda, nothing like McFarlane. but it's one of those with your partner it's like yeah it's one of those that hold special and then the last really special one is we retired with Giselle Pop I can't hear that music without getting a little well it's I mean that's a whole it's us dancing together and then it's a whole like I'm saying goodbye to all of this which I knew it was time like I knew after COVID was hard because I danced for so long and it was like this is what I have to do i do this this is me and then I took a year off
00:17:44
Speaker
because we basically got a phone call in march and said, sorry, you're unemployed until November of
Navigating Career Transitions During the Pandemic
00:17:50
Speaker
the same year. So it was like we took nine months off. It was the first time in as long as I can remember that I didn't have to go to dance. I didn't have to.
00:17:57
Speaker
And going back was hard because it was one of those that I realized that I didn't necessarily have the desire to do it every day and like i thought I did because that was the motions and then when other things changed and I found other hobbies or things that I enjoyed doing was like it's beautiful outside right now I just want to go for a hike I want to go play disc golf with my friends I don't want to be in the studio all day on this beautiful spring afternoon there were moments that that never used to bother me and I think it was because I was just having more fun and then injuries injuries kind of plagued the end of my year I spent the last half of my season
00:18:34
Speaker
at BA, my final season in a boot with stress fractures in my metatarsal head. I had an edema and a stress fracture. And every time I would go back, it would be fine. And then I'd go to take class and it would just flare up again.
00:18:47
Speaker
I was in boot for three and a half months. And so I got to watch everyone else finish out the season. And the weirdest thing was that I was okay. And that's when I knew i was like, OK, you made the right choice. Like, I'm not gutted right now watching.
00:18:58
Speaker
I'm having fun watching my friends have fun. Part of me, yes, is missing performing, but I'm not missing all the stress that they have right now. Yeah. And so that was kind of one of those that it was like, OK, you made the right decision. As much as this sucks right now, it was good to see that I can be in front of house and it's OK.
00:19:13
Speaker
I can still enjoy being around the audience and seeing people and seeing how they react to the show, but in a different aspect. which knowing that I was leaving already because by the time at that point we knew we were going to Boca I knew that that could be very much part of my job is watching from the wings or from the front I still dance some here which is great you know if they need me I strap on the tides I did Hilarion two years ago that's a full circle moment I remember you doing Hilarion at Grand Valley that's uh yes dying those girls just love to kill me That's a fun part for the Willys.
00:19:44
Speaker
Hilarion's a fun part, too. Because everyone's like, he's the bad guy. And I'm like, is he, though? He's not. If you really think about Hilarion, all he really cares about is Giselle. And he's like, dude, this dude is screwed up.
00:19:55
Speaker
He's just wrong place, wrong time. Maybe his tact was a little off, but Albrecht's the bad guy. Yeah, oh, for sure. Team Hilarion. But that was fun because we got to do it with Sterling Baca and Arsana Muslova from Philadelphia Valley.
00:20:08
Speaker
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00:20:24
Speaker
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00:20:38
Speaker
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00:20:51
Speaker
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00:21:02
Speaker
Tap the link in the show notes to learn more and be sure to mention that the Brainy Ballerina referred you. So what was that transition like? How did you end up at Boca Valley Theater from Arkansas?
Role at Boca Ballet Theater and Career Transition
00:21:13
Speaker
I, Butler, actually went to school with this girl, Natalie Parker, now Natalie Parker Beck. She grew up at Boca Valley. She was a dancer at Butler. And I think it was my first year at Ballet Arkansas.
00:21:25
Speaker
they needed a boy for grad ball that could partner and looked young enough to dance the like lovey paw with some 16 year old. I mean, I didn't change a whole lot since college. Like I have always had a baby face.
00:21:37
Speaker
So you put enough makeup on, I can look real like 12 year old boy if I have. And so I came and did that. And then I came down for Nutcracker every year and did Prince Arabian Spanish.
00:21:47
Speaker
Are you dead? Clara's dead. and basically made friends with the directors and people down here. And then it came talking in my head, you know, talking about transition and moving on. And they were looking for a development director and I started Arts Admin Butler.
00:22:01
Speaker
I was Dance Arts Admin. And so it's like, i have an idea of what that kind of, I mean, I've danced for so long. I've been through the company life. I kind of know how the donor stuff works. Grants, I did learn how to write. It's going to refresher course once we get looking at them again.
00:22:15
Speaker
But it was one of those that they needed one. and I needed something to do and it kind of was good for both of us. The timing was right for everyone. And I was comfortable down here. I had friends down here.
00:22:26
Speaker
So when they were like, hey, would you like director development? can be on faculty. And then Amanda also came and joined faculty. So it was kind of like the perfect situation where we both had something when we were moving.
00:22:36
Speaker
And so we moved here June 2022 and started at Summer Intensive. Was our first. I mean, I'd been at Boca for Nutcracker, so I've been around. but was like our first like this is all day every day Bug Valley Summer Intensive is like any other summer intensive. It's a full house. But the difference is there's five different directors teaching class.
00:22:56
Speaker
Since I've been here, there's been like Peter Bull, Michael Pink, Adam Sklu, all come down for a week and teach. And so it's fun for us because I get to sneak into class every once in a while with some directors that I, you know, like I had Michael Pink when I was in Milwaukee when I was 13 years old. So having him again as an adult full circle, it's just these weird moments where you realize how small the dance world actually is and how connected the dance world actually is.
00:23:18
Speaker
and like girodana our friend fernando dances at girodana well one of his partners for a lot of stuff is a girl sasha who graduated from both the ballets and our directors were actually dancers for girodana back in the 80s and 90s and so it's like man girodana comes every summer and does jazz for our dancers and so she's bringing dancers and yeah they get to learn girodana ret and so it's just like it's so weird how full circle of the dance world gets And so, yeah, it's cool to see that one, too, because it's summer and you get to see all the college kids buying for jobs. and Everyone's working really hard.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah. So can you talk more about that summer intensive structure and what
Boca Ballet Summer Intensive Structure
00:23:53
Speaker
that looks like? Because it is but sounds like a little bit difference than maybe somemother some other summer intensive. Yeah. and A great opportunity for dancers to be seen and work. It is.
00:24:03
Speaker
directors because I feel like that's one the hardest parts for a lot of dancers. Like if you don't feel like you are kind of person who shines in an audition, like an hour and a half audition, but you're the kind of person who like, once they get to know you, right you know, you're the person that they want to work with.
00:24:17
Speaker
It sounds like a good opportunity for those dancers. Yes. I mean, this year we have even more interesting because we have four ballet directors in the Nan Giordano.
00:24:27
Speaker
So this year, Nick Milliken and James Sofranco from Nashville and Grand Rapids Ballet are coming for the first two weeks together. Usually it's one director each week, but this year they're coming together because they are each choreographed on the students as well.
00:24:44
Speaker
So these you know students are also going to get the chance to have reps set on them by the choreographer. So these directors are going to see how they work in our realm. And like, how quick can you pick this up? You know, how much are we going have to spend time?
00:24:56
Speaker
How much is this? So it's going to be really interesting. And then they also get the luxury of seeing them for two weeks, each director alternating class in the studio for two weeks. I've done summer intensives. I know directors poke their heads in, but it's rare for them to sit and teach a whole class, let alone a whole week.
00:25:12
Speaker
Because artistic directors, the company doesn't stop when summer starts, like they still have a job to do. So for them to stop and come to us for a week and teach these students, I mean, they're taking time away from their own students, their own school.
00:25:26
Speaker
But they're also seeing the benefit of getting that one on one interaction also with the students. They're getting to see more than just an hour and a half ballet class. They're getting to see how you work. They're getting to see how you interact with other people because the directors are around all day. They eat lunch. They do a lunch with the dancers where the dancers can literally ask them. and They'll sit down on Wednesdays and we bring all the tables in and say, let's do director's lunch.
00:25:47
Speaker
And this year we have also McConaughey, ah louisville ballet she's the new director at louisville and adam sps coming back from valley went got nashville bra Rapids, Valley West, and Louisville.
00:25:58
Speaker
These are like solid companies, especially for dancers coming out of college. That's where we were all auditioning. It's where we were like, okay, these are all the companies that we want. They're like not the big old NYCB, which everyone wants, you know, New York City Ballet or ABT, but there's also these companies that are fantastic.
00:26:14
Speaker
It's fun to see the directors because like they don't teach classes often anymore for like students. So it's fun to see them get back into that game too. You notice the dancers that really take advantage of it because there are dancers that will catch them in the hallway and just try to chat.
00:26:27
Speaker
Here's my resume. Here's my bio. Here's my CV, like headshots. They get the opportunity to stand one-on-one with the directors and hand them this packet as they're talking to them after they've worked with them for three days.
00:26:40
Speaker
By the end of the week, the directors know there's only 36 dancers in the program. The directors know everyone's name We've had people get jobs from the summer because like you said, right place, right time. But we've also had people get jobs the next season because the directors knew who they were when they showed up at the cattle call.
00:26:56
Speaker
The director was already like, oh, I know how she works. Okay. One of the girls got into Grand Rapids bout. That's a good point because I was thinking just now it's so late in the year. They may not have as many contracts available at that point. Of course, things happen. We all know, but.
00:27:14
Speaker
That's a really good point that you bring up of like that forward thinking relationship. You're not just building it for this coming season, but for the future. No. And you could also, in total retrospect, you could take class with this director and go, absolutely not.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah. I would not be happy in that environment. And we've all had ballet teachers that we click with and ballet teachers that you don't. We've all had it. Personalities sometimes just don't melt.
00:27:38
Speaker
It's a great way to figure that out, too. And it's like you're also auditioning them a little bit. You get to not just have one hour and a half where everyone's so in their head and neurotic and nervous because it's an audition and you don't want to get tapped on the shoulders after Todd news and said, thank you.
00:27:52
Speaker
You get to have this moment where I get to take this entire class and I'm going to get to take this entire class tomorrow and the next day the next day. And I get to interact and the directors can come and watch them rehearse with other things. So they see how they work in different styles and aspects. They even do hip hop on Fridays.
00:28:10
Speaker
The guy, Larry, we have come as great with hip hop for those ballet dancers. As a ballet dancer, I would not be a hip hopper. I don't think it would work. I love that you bring up the concept of auditioning them because I always tell dancers that too. Like, it's not just about if they want you, do you want to go there?
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah. And because it's real, I mean, as as dancers, so much of our job is tough. It's hard. It's a grind. And if you're in the place you love the most, it's still a grind.
00:28:39
Speaker
Like, I loved my fellow company members. They were the reason I went to work most days because it was just like, I don't want to let them down because they want me to show up and do my job.
00:28:52
Speaker
But I would rather do anything else but this right You know, there's just those days where you roll out of bed and you're like, I can't today. I don't want to look at myself in the mirror. I don't want to critique everything.
00:29:04
Speaker
i don't want someone to sit there and tell me that I'm not good enough at this, this's this, this, this. Some days, if you're not in the mental state, it's hard. And so that's where the community and knowing that you can walk into the room and your mental state can improve because the people you're around.
00:29:20
Speaker
If you're in a toxic environment, your mental is only going to go more. Because even all of us in the best environment still have those days where it's just like, I need a mental health day. And as dancers, that's one i don't think we talk about.
00:29:32
Speaker
We need a mental health day. And what we do is hard. Unlike other jobs, we wrap our identity into it. And that was one of the hardest things that I didn't realize until I retired.
00:29:43
Speaker
That it was like, I'm not going to rehearsal. I don't know what I am. i don't know. Like I had my career. It's like a weird thing. Like what I dreamt of doing when I was 12, I did it. Most people, if they want to be a doctor, by the time they get to my age, are finally settled in to their doctorhood or whatever. don't know.
00:30:00
Speaker
Not a doctor. Like their past residency, they've gone through all these steps and now they're getting settled. Where by the time we get to our age, We're out. We're the old folks, you know, late 30s.
00:30:12
Speaker
It's so true that it's like when you're starting your career, you're so young and physically you feel great, but mentally you're not quite there yet.
00:30:23
Speaker
No. And then by time you mentally get there and you feel like... The body can't do it anymore. Yes. And it's just... After 30, something clicked where the pressure to be perfect and put myself as a square peg in their round hole was gone.
00:30:39
Speaker
I knew what my strengths were and I'm going to work towards them. And I know what tricks I'm not good at. So if we have a variation, can I not do that trick, please? And I knew to stand up for myself to be like, if he wanted to look better, I'm going to be really stressed out about that.
00:30:51
Speaker
Can we not do the double rebel Todd? I hate going sideways on an axle. It freaks me out. Can we do any other one? I'll split leaps, whatever. i just don't. Okay, that's fine. Once you learn to be like, it's going to be better for all of us.
00:31:04
Speaker
But it takes a certain comfort level in the studio and being there long enough to look at the director and be like, I understand, but here we're on. And it was nice. I think things are changing slightly with our generation. My director of arts when we left, Michael Fothergill, he's a little bit older than us, but not like so much older than us.
00:31:22
Speaker
So he kind of is in that same realm of like, yes, dancers are tools, but they're also human beings. And let's not forget that. And I feel like old school ballet, we were just tools. We were not humans. it was It was nice that we could have a rapport.
00:31:36
Speaker
He understood. We would have different variations. Every guy would have a different step here or there because they like going this way or which way can you do it? It was a little more like, I want you to dance your best. So let's do this. Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker
I definitely got into you know existing rep, like even in a contemporary ballet company where there was maybe a solo that was choreographed for a previous dancer. And then when that came time for to my solo, I've had the choreographer say,
00:31:58
Speaker
this was a solo for her. Let's make a solo for you. We've had that in company life between cast A and cast B. Yeah. It's like, hey, I know that they're cast A and i'mnna set this on them, but you need to take ownership for yourself. So that's not your timing. Don't try to force yourself into there.
00:32:14
Speaker
Because you know contemporary works a lot of times are. You have here to here. However you make it work between here and here, that's on you. But it's not like one, two three, four, five,
00:32:26
Speaker
Like everything has a count. Sometimes there are, but a lot of times it's like here's the motion we're going to go through could have more creative license with yeah it's going to take you as long as it's going to take you but you know someone's coming on stage at that point in that corner so you need once you start knowing that they're coming you got to speed up who if you really get lost in the moment somewhere that's the plane that i like that was like where the contemporary became fun it was like you get to play with the music between point a and point b i'm curious how you approach this with your students because i totally Agree, like at a professional level, there's a point where you can have this conversation of, hey, can we maybe look at a different step here or whatever?
00:33:04
Speaker
With a student, if they said to you like, hey, this isn't my best thing, you know, there's that they're learning and as a professional, you're learning too. So at what point would you be like, let's push and work on this step or hey, let's maybe change this for you?
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, not liking Rebel Todds. I'm in my 30s. I've been trying to do it for 10 years. I just don't like it. But there is a point with kids. And like Grand Prix, I'm pretty a stickler with this is the variation that you're going to do.
00:33:28
Speaker
Now, if we get down to it and you're really struggling, I'm not going to let you go on stage and look like a fool. We'll fix it and make it. But you're going to try ah get this version and these steps and try to do it.
00:33:40
Speaker
But day-to-day kids, like I'm the mean teacher, like no skirts, no junk, nothing in class. You guys are students. When you bring me a paycheck, you can wear a skirt at bar. There's a point where kids nowadays have gotten so comfortable in their own little like i'm gonna wear my unicodes and we have a uniform Everyone's in uniform for a reason.
00:33:59
Speaker
No one's got the fancier things. And as boys, like, I think part of it the chip on my shoulder for being a boy that we had black tights and a white t-shirt. Black tights and a white t-shirt. There was no fancy tights. There was no go to summer intensives and the girl had all the print leotards and black tights and a white t-shirt.
00:34:15
Speaker
We didn't get to hide behind our fashion. And also, you're in school, black and pink. That's so interesting because that doesn't bother me at all as a teacher. Like, of course, we all have our things. The junk.
00:34:27
Speaker
And the junk, like, junk is one thing because I'm like, I truly can't see what's going on. Well, we have uniform at the school, so I'm in school regulations. Of course, you have to enforce, you know, whatever your uniform is, that kind of thing. But it's just interesting because that's like one thing where I'm like, I personally, i feel like I dance better when I'm wearing a cute leotard.
00:34:44
Speaker
No, I get it. it's and And for them at that age, it's a crutch. You think? i think they they like to hide behind their different fashions, and like but they also end up spending half the class playing with it, trying to make it look cute. Oh, do I look cute? Do I look cute?
00:34:58
Speaker
No, you look like in a black leotard like everybody else. We're not here to look cute. We're here to do ballet. and I think sometimes with teenage girls, I don't have the patience for it all. And that's just me being a guy. Yeah, i guess I was a teenage girl. So I ah you're like, I know what it's like. Jeans and a t-shirt, shorts and a t-shirt.
00:35:15
Speaker
Like we're pretty easygoing. And so, yeah, i mean but at the same time, it comes in, especially us where we live in Boca, we've got all levels of the socioeconomical lack.
Uniformity and Accessibility in Dance Education
00:35:27
Speaker
And so when they walk in class in a uniform and you take away just because she's coming in her hand-me-down block leotard versus her in her third new Yumiko for the week, it takes that away.
00:35:38
Speaker
yeah It brings everyone back to level playing field. And I think that's where I like uniforms because I was one that my mom would not have been able to afford all that extra stuff
00:35:48
Speaker
because we paid for it or we figured it out. We got to wear those in rehearsals and things. That's what it was. But when was class time, it's class time. We're all here for the same thing. And it's not a fashion show.
00:35:59
Speaker
Because, you know, that poor girl that can't afford all that stuff might not love the fact that she's the only one in the corner not wearing yeah that's a good point Especially, yeah, in like South Florida, there's some moolah down here.
00:36:09
Speaker
There's also people that live just like the rest of us, paycheck to paycheck. And so when you get in the studio, you don't want them to notice that difference. I want them to. We're here to dance. Yeah, you're here to dance and you're here to be secure in your own thing.
00:36:21
Speaker
Mm hmm. And so I like uniform for that reason. Yeah. And like, we let them wear whatever they want for rehearsals. When it's time for rehearsal, go put on your Yumiko, do your thing. Because not everyone has to do the show.
00:36:32
Speaker
I feel like just personally as a teacher, I want the opposite. I want the uniformity in rehearsal. Yeah, i get that. Because get like overwhelmed. I'm like, I can't see this diagonal because there's too many... Too many patterns. Things going on. Yeah, it's like if there's one thing I can see it better, like just for my personal brain. but I think a lot of times rehearsals is because they're it's Saturday and they're there all day.
00:36:51
Speaker
So it's like, all right. You've something throw. We'll let you be cute for the day that you're going to be here for four hours for rehearsal. yeah There is so much dancers need to learn as they pursue a professional dance career.
00:37:04
Speaker
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00:37:15
Speaker
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00:37:30
Speaker
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00:37:45
Speaker
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00:38:02
Speaker
Tap the link in the show notes to download your copy today and start pursuing your dance career with intention. Can you tell us what else you're doing at FOCA? So I know that you're on faculty and teaching. What's your role as director development?
Community Involvement and Nonprofit Work
00:38:18
Speaker
can you tell us a little bit about that admin aspect of it?
00:38:21
Speaker
I am in charge of fundraising. It's a tough job. As much as we all love the arts and what the arts can do, sometimes it's a hard sell to have people just give money.
00:38:34
Speaker
But if it wasn't for people like me doing my job now, when I was a kid, my school wouldn't have been there, a nonprofit dance school. Because we Boca Valley is a nonprofit. The school, the company, everything's a nonprofit. Some schools have the company touch, but the school is for profit and the company is nonprofit. No, it's all under the same nonprofit umbrella.
00:38:53
Speaker
And so ticket sales, everything goes to pay for programming in the shows and our outreach program. Like I said, yeah, if it wasn't for someone doing this job when I was a kid, I wouldn't have had somewhere in the space. And I knew when I was done dancing professionally, I wanted to work around kids just because as much as I like professional dancers, ego is hard to deal with sometimes.
00:39:15
Speaker
adults are a whole different game where you have to tiptoe a line. We're both adults. I don't know if I should critique you or like in like a rehearsal aspect. It's hard to switch from being friends to being your boss.
00:39:26
Speaker
Like I have a harder time with that detachment with adults. I'm getting easier at it as I get older. Yeah, as you get more removed. But I feel like coming out, yeah, teaching some 25 year olds when I was 30 something was kind of like a It felt like when was 22 teaching 18 year olds in high school even I was like, we're only a few years apart.
00:39:43
Speaker
But I mean, I had to do it with adults when we were doing summers dancing about Arkansas, my wife, Amanda and I worked residence at the Rock. So I hired chaperones and had to deal with all these adult like parents of students and were studying their schedule and doing interviews and all that.
00:39:59
Speaker
So I've done it. I've done it and learned that I can do it. And it was weirder then because most of them were twice my age. You know, i'm like 24 and they're like, I'm 45. But down here, yeah, with the kids, I've always just, it's a different also when watching them in the studio because professionals, they have their own agenda. Like watching a student get a step for the first time, that's just been driving them crazy. The magic that those moments have or like,
00:40:23
Speaker
when they come off stage for a show and they feel really proud of what they've just done those are the moments that make it worth it yeah the days that are hard because like i said it's a time in our world right now where people don't have a lot to give because they don't have a lot to give everything's just kind of expensive and crazy and but the arts are the soul and so i have to remind them but for our community the arts are our soul
00:40:50
Speaker
are the humanity and you take away everything else it is what really draws people places is the culture you take a sporting event away There's no sports team, but there's still a culture in the cities. There's still things to do. I have to remind people that we're here for them.
00:41:06
Speaker
And then it's easy at Boca because we also do just a lot of programs for the outside.
Outreach and Community Engagement Programs
00:41:10
Speaker
Like we have a Parkinson's program, BBT for PD. Twice a week, we have 15 to 20 people with Parkinson's in the studio dancing.
00:41:18
Speaker
It reminds you sometimes why we dance in the beginning, because it's just like, freedom. For them, it's a community of people that are in the same situation.
00:41:29
Speaker
We've had students come in in their walker and leave without it. Like literally forget that they brought it when they walked in the room because the music and ballet kind of just brought something out. that Their symptoms just weren't as bad when they left.
00:41:42
Speaker
I mean, we're not doctors. We don't do any of that, but it's therapy for the soul because like I said, the arts are our soul. We also have a program, First Step, where we bring kids in from the boys and girls club of Palm Beach County and Boca Raton Housing Authority.
00:41:58
Speaker
And so they come in four days a week and we do free classes. We provide transportation, we provide shoes for all of their dancewear needs, and we also keep them and launder them. So make sure they're clean and ready for them for their next class.
00:42:10
Speaker
So they're always ready. And so that one is like seven through 10 year old kids that wouldn't necessarily be exposed to ballet. Most people, if you're not in an upper, you're not really exposed to ballet unless you've had it somewhere else.
00:42:24
Speaker
so they come in and what we do is once they've graduated from the first step program if they choose to continue on they can join the school curriculum for your chart. Because the last thing we want to do is set ah boundary on someone.
00:42:36
Speaker
It's get you in love with ballet and then tell you you can't do it. That's another one of my things is finding and funding for students like that and being able to pay for their tuition without taking a hit on the company and finding funds for that.
00:42:50
Speaker
And then as well as productions. And then we also do a college dance fair, which is Pretty popular. I don't think i have to say too much about it because I feel like people know what it is by this point. You'd be surprised. Talk about it. People might
College Dance Fair and Educational Opportunities
00:43:02
Speaker
not. Yeah.
00:43:03
Speaker
We do a college dance for every Labor Day weekend and we have at least nine universities come. Nine universities teach for two days. They come in on Friday. They do like a little table time meet and greet. All the professors or deans or whoever's coming as to represent each school.
00:43:17
Speaker
give their little blurb and then it's like a college dance fair. It's a dance fair. You walk around with the tables and the universities have all their swag and like, come get your brochures. And so that's Friday. And then Saturday is all day classes.
00:43:29
Speaker
So each student takes three classes each day. So they have a chance to take six out of the nine teaching schools that are there. And so this year, I don't have it listed off the top of my head. I think it's IU Butler, TCU, UC Irvine, lots of the big schools.
00:43:45
Speaker
And so they come in and the professors walk around and also watch the other classes. And so it's a good spot. Same like we talked about with the ah directors of the summer intensive.
00:43:56
Speaker
It's time to audition your schools. You get to take from six universities in a weekend. And it all started because we had a mom come back at one point and said, I just spent thousands of dollars to learn that my daughter doesn't want to go to any of these schools.
00:44:10
Speaker
because there's nowhere one-stop shop yeah and our generation you flew all and dance universities it's not like you're going to state schools where it's like a 30-minute drive here 30-minute drive there no they are all over the country And so we've tried to least let you narrow down. So it's geared for high school seniors, juniors and seniors.
00:44:30
Speaker
It sold out in two and a half hours this year. Last year, it sold out in three weeks. This year, it sold out in two and a half hours. And the waitlist is already growing. So yeah, it's one that I think people have started to find, especially these moms of dancers that are trying to help.
00:44:46
Speaker
We have kids from all over the country come to. It's we got kids from California, Washington, all over the country. Same thing with the summer intensive. We've got kids from not only all over the country, but all over the world.
00:44:58
Speaker
We had boys from the UK last year, girl from Taiwan, many of our Latin American countries. Just being South Florida, that's kind of pretty normal for us It's amazing. And I think for colleges, at some point, you do want to go see the campus.
00:45:10
Speaker
That was part of what made me fall love with Grand Valley was going to that campus and being like, oh, i really love it here. I love the size. I felt really at home there. But like kind of whittling it down to get a smaller list of places you want to visit instead of trying to go 10 different schools and realizing, like you said, I don't like any of these.
00:45:26
Speaker
Right. And I mean, in this answer the department's what you want first, obviously. Mm-hmm. It's what you want first, because you're going to be spending most your time there. So if you realize that, okay, I didn't really care for what these three schools were saying, even though they got a beautiful campus, I'm out.
00:45:41
Speaker
It's like when I was doing auditions, I knew IU wasn't for me. I did not like the huge state school campus. Grand Valley was a little big for me. I was like, this stuff is all spread out. Butler was like three blocks. Butler was like, i and I loved it. you see I didn't realize that Butler was like a smaller. Yeah, Butler's only got 5,000 underground.
00:45:59
Speaker
I mean, it's gotten bigger now. Now there's like a parking deck on campus and none of that was there. Yeah. that is a consideration. But Butler was in a big city, 10 minutes from downtown Indy, where yeah Grand Valley was a huge campus in the middle of nowhere. no Like Grand Rapids was what, 30 minutes away on a bus?
00:46:17
Speaker
So if you didn't have a car going to Grand Rapids, like was kind of like, going to take the bus down. I don't think people realize that like, yeah, you think of Grand Valley as being in Grand Rapids, but it's an L. Allendale, which is tiny, surrounded by cornfields.
00:46:30
Speaker
Which again, it didn't bother me in college because I was like, I'm just here college. Yeah. so And I've always been a Midwestern small town kind of person. So I was like, this is great. But it's like it is important to kind of know what you want. and like you said, if you can kind of whittle down to the programs that you like the dancing for and then try to find one where the campus life also feels cohesive.
00:46:54
Speaker
yeah That's such a great opportunity. And I love that you have the college fair to help dancers be able to do that in one place, cut down on those expenses. mean, college is already so expensive.
00:47:05
Speaker
Figure out where you want to go to college shouldn't be as much as a semester of college. And the professors all hang out. They don't just like teach their class and leave. You'll see them with their notebooks with all the students' names. We give them a list of every student in every class.
00:47:18
Speaker
So they have their number, their name, their GPA, their academic year, literally in a note like clipboard. So when they walk in the room, i mean, we've had universities give out scholarships, university placement from this program.
00:47:33
Speaker
Like now we're having some of the universities have used it as an actual audition. If you are coming, you can audition. So I don't know if it's happening this year, so I don't want to say who it was. I don't want to get any or wrong idea. But last year we did have one of the universities let them use it as an audition.
00:47:48
Speaker
program That's huge. Usually we have between 13 and 14 schools. So only nine teach, but four or five more come on the university's dime. We pay for the nine schools that teach.
00:47:59
Speaker
We find funding and bring them in because we you know we need our core and then we invite other universities, hey, you can't teach, but you can have a table in the room. you can walk around with this list and talk to these dancers. And so even if the school that you're taking classes from, you're not interested, but you still can ask questions to the other schools that might not be there. So if you're like, oh, they're not on the list, they might come.
00:48:20
Speaker
because it does happen yeah where they will send representatives just to recruit because the colleges have realized too, that it's a good spot to recruit. And it's 75 very qualified dancers.
00:48:31
Speaker
And dancers, I would definitely say ask questions in those scenarios. Cause I feel like I've been on the other side of, I used to go to COCA summer are intensive auditions for MCB to look for dancers for our program. And,
00:48:42
Speaker
I felt like dancers would be very shy about asking me questions and that kind of thing. And then I'd always get a lot of emails after. Right. In person, it feels really hard, you know? So I would just say to dancers, like, that's what they're there for. They want to talk to you. They want to talk about their program.
00:48:57
Speaker
If you have questions, take that opportunity and go up and just start a conversation. That's me as a teacher too. Like I'm the teacher, ask a question. I would rather explain it three times because you asked me to, then you not have any idea what's going on.
00:49:12
Speaker
I'm in your corner. I am here to help you. Don't be afraid to use that. That's like what I enjoy a lot about our programming is we're here to help these dancers go into this career and not just in a cattle call audition style, but really get moments to interact and ask questions.
00:49:29
Speaker
and get to audition these programs and these directors. It's just cool. And it makes my job fun. It's fun to raise money for these programs. Yeah. If you're excited about what you're doing, it's easier to talk about it and basically sell the program to a donor.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yes. I mean, because if you can't get them excited about it, we're not curing cancer as much as the arts is important. It's way easier to say, like, we're curing cancer. and Give me a donation. Like, the arts are cancer.
00:49:55
Speaker
our souls. So give us a donation. But I mean, it's more than that. It makes me sound greedy. I'm not that greedy. No, no, it's not. But like you have these specific programs and you have to find somebody who connects to each of them because maybe they don't connect as much to a college dance fair, but they connect to your program for Parkinson's because they have a personal connection there. So it's finding the programs and the people that match each other. It's all people connected.
00:50:20
Speaker
It's all people connections. And as dancers going in, if you're going into the company, get to know your board members. no They want to know who you are. They are in your corner.
00:50:31
Speaker
They are the ones that are actively fighting to keep the doors open, the boards and the directors. And as much as dancers, we get into our own headspace of like, this is me and I'm the dancer.
00:50:43
Speaker
There's a whole lot going on that unless you go behind the scenes and switch to that admin side, you don't realize sometimes how much is much. Be thankful for those people. Learn how to do it.
00:50:54
Speaker
Because at some point you're going to have to advocate for yourselves. Yeah. Ask to go to a board meeting. Yes. Ask for the minutes even. Learn how to read the 990. Yes. Learn how to read a 990. They are interesting once you learn how to read them.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah. You can learn a lot. and if you know those things, you just have a better perspective, like you said, of what's going on in the entire organization. Yeah. Because as a dancer, like if you've got any questions or something's a red flag, ask.
00:51:20
Speaker
Especially if you work for a nonprofit, it's all public knowledge. They will give it to you. They might not like it. They have to. Yeah, they have to. The more you know and the more you're educated on it, you can ask a better question.
00:51:32
Speaker
You can't really understand what's going on. So if you have issues with your company or you're curious about why is the pay like this or why is the season this length or what is the budget like for
Understanding Dance Company Operations
00:51:41
Speaker
this? You can go in with them a little bit ammunition in your own corner of like, I had a great year last year. Why are admin getting raises, but none of the dancers are or vice versa? Or i mean, it's these things where you keep your company, your company.
00:51:56
Speaker
because as dancers split side of that we are the face we are the product where we do get in our head in that way we are people are coming to watch us but at the same time you got to be smart because there's another product in the corner waiting to push you out you have to know the game the whole game not just your aspect of the game yeah so true dancers get in their bubble. and And I do think there is validity to saying, hey, I need to do my job. This is their job. like Everyone has a job to do
00:52:28
Speaker
But I think understanding others' jobs helps you do your job better and appreciate what they do. Because I think sometimes like board members get a bad rap or the dancers can feel like they're not doing enough for us or whatever. And it's like, if you really know what they're doing, then you feel... People don't want to give to an organization. They want to give to people and programs.
00:52:46
Speaker
So if you don't think your board members are doing enough for you, get to know your board members. They'll be more invested in you. Invest in the people in the company. And the only way they're going to do that is by you.
00:52:57
Speaker
And so if I can give dancers something like, yeah, just look at the big picture in the career, as fun as it is. Don't forget that that seamstress might have three kids and was up sewing and her hands are bleeding on costumes at three o'clock in the morning because she's got a second job on top of. Don't forget that.
00:53:13
Speaker
And a lot of the work that the admin is doing is more invisible to you as a dancer. So you can see the performance on stage. Even moving into admin, I didn't realize how much went into it. Because I knew they did stuff behind the scenes that we didn't see. I mean, I was in my 30s dancing and I knew the company had to run somehow.
00:53:31
Speaker
But until you start looking at all these state grant panels and county grant panels, all these things in that kind of realm, you're like, whoa. Especially at Valley, Arkansas, I had more appreciation because I knew we were a staff of three.
00:53:43
Speaker
who So the directors were doing a lot of this on top of what they were doing in the studios. Yes, they came into the studio grouchy and in a bad mood and kind of tired. And, you know, at the moment, I didn't have any forgiveness for it because don't bring your energy and ruin my day. But at the same time, looking back now, I'm like, oh, I kind of get.
00:54:01
Speaker
I kind of get it. They're stressed. It's a stressful time in the arts. It's not what it was 100 years ago where the arts were everything. We are fighting for every eye that we get, every click, every bit of attention that we can get.
00:54:15
Speaker
It's not easy. We're fighting to stay relevant, stay. useful. It's great that these competitions and stuff are dealing, but at the same time, the art form is so much more than Grand Prix.
00:54:26
Speaker
and They get so much visibility, but there's a lot other things going on that I feel like as artists that we need to bring to the forefront of actually, like this is what's important. like Grand Prix is great and it's cool for students to learn variations, but the program that the arts do for your community. Every time I tell people, like at Boca, we have adult class six days week.
00:54:46
Speaker
Over 500 adults came last month to say that that's Amazing. This doesn't stop just because you're a kid. You can still appreciate the arts and love the arts, even into adulthood.
00:54:57
Speaker
Even if you never got to take a ballet class when you were a kid, that was your chance. It's never too late. I teach a class called Ballet 101 at Madison Ballet, and it's a four-week session. We do it like three times a year, where it's literally, what is a plie? What is turnout?
00:55:10
Speaker
Where do you put your hand on the bar? What are the positions of the feet? So, so basic. And like, I always ask my students, the first week, why did you want to take this class? And some of them are like, I took a class as a kid and I want to kind of like get back into And some of them say, I've always wanted to dance my whole life and I just never did.
00:55:26
Speaker
And here I am. And I'm just like, that's amazing. And I always make a point to be like, thank you for taking time out of your schedule to come take this class with me because I know as an adult, how hard it is to make time for every hobbies or something like that, that you want to do for yourself. And it's just such a big deal to do that.
00:55:44
Speaker
and i love that Now with kids, that gets even harder. Yeah. Well, and we have a seven month old. so Oh, wow. You're in the thick of it. We're in the teething, not sleeping through the night.
00:55:55
Speaker
okay It's fun. It's one that we've had to wait until company life was over. Yeah. Because my wife being a dancer, obviously, getting pregnant is one that you have to make a decision when you're dancing.
00:56:07
Speaker
You don't have to stop dancing completely, but there will come a point that like, and hey, if I'm pregnant mid-season, I don't get to do a show. and managing your schedule as a dancer with a child. Like having kids now, i don't really know would have done. I wouldn't have it.
00:56:22
Speaker
There's no way. Yeah. There's no way we could have figured it out dancing. I think I'm seeing companies starting to be more... More open, yeah. We've got people in the company at Valley Arkansas now that had kids when we were there.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yeah. They make it work. A lot of them have family around, which is always helpful. I'm glad we waited until we got to have that fun. I got to have that fun. You do realize how little time you have. As a dancer, you don't have a lot of time. And then you have a kid and you're like, well, I really don't have time. wow yeah Yeah, you realize how little. I was like walking around holding him yesterday going, what's it like to just sit down?
00:56:57
Speaker
yeah know And not have someone on me. Because mom's teaching class. Give it a few years. Milo comes to the studio. So he's a studio baby. Yeah. Hangs out. Watches.
00:57:08
Speaker
He enjoys it. All the music. All the kids. Everyone's like, are you going to put him in ballet? I'm like, if he wants to. Yeah. He can totally do something else, too. I am A-OK if he's like, I'd rather play sports. Cool.
00:57:22
Speaker
I'll figure out how to get into sports. Yeah. I think dancing's so innate. Yeah. For kids. So it's cool that he gets to grow up with you in that. Yeah. Yeah. Baby Bjorn in the studio.
00:57:32
Speaker
Yep. Okay. Last question, Toby. What advice would you give to dancers who are pursuing their professional career? Besides like what I said earlier, know what's going on. Be smart. Don't be so hard on yourselves.
00:57:44
Speaker
That was one of the biggest mind changes that changed after 30 that I wish I could have figured out earlier in my career. Just because you had a bad rehearsal is not a reflection on you as a person.
00:57:55
Speaker
It's not. And as dancers, we are often really hard at separating the two. And don't forget the joy in it. That's why we do it from the beginning. And that's when I knew it was time to be done. because i've forgotten that you and now i get to take class every once in the blue moon and so when i do it's a little more like the cliche center stage line it's like going home it's here Yeah, i you know the one I'm talking about. We're that generation. These kids now, they don't know Center Stage. That's my advice. Go watch Center Stage.
00:58:25
Speaker
Perfect. I love that, Toby. Okay, well, if anyone listening me wants to learn more about you or about the programming of Boca Ballet Theater, where can they go? Yeah, they can visit bocaballet.org for anything about Boca Ballet. They can also find me on Instagram or all that. stuff bias three six five one right now it's basically baby photos So don't expect a whole lot of interesting there.
00:58:45
Speaker
But also if they have any questions about any of our programming, they can shoot me an email at TLuelen at BocaValley.org. I would happily answer or pass them on to someone that can. Perfect.
00:58:55
Speaker
Okay. I'll put all of that in the show notes for everyone listening. And Toby, this was so fun to reconnect with you and get to talk again. Thank you so much for taking the time today. Yeah, of course.
00:59:08
Speaker
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00:59:20
Speaker
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00:59:36
Speaker
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