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Author/ Business Thinker (Erika Andersen) - Changing From The Inside Out
172 Plays4 years ago
Erika speaks on changing from the inside out and how to make that change more capable.
Erika Anderson is the Author of "Changing From The Inside Out: Making You, Your Team, and Organization Change-Capable."
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Transcript
Introduction to Erica Anderson & Her Work
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Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks.
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We're back again with another phenomenal episode.
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And I have the joy and the privilege to have our next guest, Erica Anderson, coach, consultant, and business thinker, also an author and just an executive director.
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mindful, fulfilling, strategic, educated individual.
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So we're going to talk about a lot of things.
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Her most recent book is Change from the Inside Out, making you, your team, and your organization change in a more capable way.
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So Erica Anderson, welcome to the Bigger Talks podcast.
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How are you today?
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Thank you for being here.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm great.
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And what a good introduction.
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Yeah, you should just always introduce me.
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hey, you know, you say, they say, if you got it, then you got it, then all you need is some acknowledgement, you know, so you worked and put yourself in a position to get that intro.
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So where do
Influence of Upbringing on Change Perspective
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we start?
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I mean, I think the first and foremost, I just want to say thank you to Dr. Rick Brandon, who I got referral, got referred to you from him.
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And now you're on the podcast, you know, so phenomenal, powerful people in the business sector.
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It's a miracle season.
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That's my brand name and scope.
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It's a miracle to get
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to meet and connect with high intellectual business people and just people that are phenomenal in their whole genre of life.
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So Erica, talk to us.
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Where are you from and where did the journey for self-development evolve and start, change?
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Where did you change that?
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Oh, man.
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What a wonderful question.
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So I, as we were talking a little bit before you hit the record button, I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska, right in the middle of the Midwest.
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And it was really interesting because my parents were very, they were kind of conservative fiscally, but they were very liberal socially.
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And really in the, I was raised in the 60s in Nebraska with very specific intentional conversations about civil rights, about women's rights, about, like I remember once when we were, when I was 10, so we were 8, 10, 12, and 15 kind of.
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the four kids of which I was one.
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And we grew up in Nebraska where there weren't very many people of color.
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It's all white people in Nebraska pretty much, right?
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And so we were gonna go on a vacation.
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We had a trailer that we,
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took the kind of part we're going to go on a vacation down to the south and our parents sat us down beforehand and told us about racism and said you're going to see a lot of terrible things you're going to see uh like when we'll stop at gas stations and the bathrooms in the gas stations will say whites only and then there'll be uh
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a black, you know, a thing that says colored people and it's an outhouse.
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And they told, they said, we look at this, notice this, this is wrong and bad.
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This is 60 years ago.
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They're telling us this stuff.
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Right.
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So it was a kind of a remarkable upbringing and, and in lots of ways, and, and all four of us then kind of
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just went to the coasts.
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My older brother went to LA and my older sister and my younger brother and I ended up in New York and we kind of had to, I'm not sure we could have stayed in Nebraska in a way, you know?
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So, but starting
The Nature of Change: Historical and Personal Contexts
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out like that, and my dad especially was so curious and really encouraged us to be curious and to think deeply and to not accept what we saw in front of us if it didn't feel right to us.
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So, I mean, you asked.
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And so that's where my life started.
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And I feel like it was a wonderful start to life.
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And so for the last, you know, 70 years, I've been asking why.
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And so-
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And these books that I've written, I was saying this to somebody the other day, the reason I write a book is I get curious about something.
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Yeah.
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And with change, what I got curious about, we've had it in my company, Proteus, we've had a change practice for over a decade, but I noticed, I kept noticing how hard change was for people, you know?
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And then I also, so I got curious about that.
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Why is change so hard for us, especially change that's kind of imposed on us, you know, like when you're in an organization, people are making you change.
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And then I also got curious about how, okay, so change is hard.
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So
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how do we actually change?
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What actually happens inside an individual human being when we go through a change?
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Because I felt like if I found good answers to those two questions, it would be really helpful.
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So that was kind of the genesis.
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Yeah, so let's talk about change.
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Why is it hard for us to change?
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And how do you change to get ahead and have effective results?
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Because we change every day with the climate, with the days, with just emotions.
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But how do we, like, why is it so hard for people to change?
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Why is that a challenge?
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Yeah, why is it hard and then how do we get better at it?
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Yes, accepting change, right?
Mindset and the Change Arc
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Yeah, exactly.
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So here's what I started to think about.
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So whenever I'm trying to answer a question like that, I always look at our history as human beings because we are what we have been kind of and what we've learned to be.
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So if you think about, okay, a person who
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a hundred, 200, 500 years ago, anywhere in the world, in the United States, in Europe, in Africa, in Asia, that person's life a couple of hundred years ago would have been to us unimaginably stable.
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Right.
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They almost certainly grew up in the same place their parents grew up, ate the same food, went to the same church, did the same work.
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And even the changes that happened, the small changes were predictable.
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You know, there's a bad year for crops or somebody has a baby or somebody dies, you know, it was all just unimaginably predictable.
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And when a change, when a real change occasionally did happen, it would have almost always been bad, a famine or a flood or a war.
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Right.
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So the best bet for human beings until very recently is like, okay, when a change comes, get back to the previous state as soon as you possibly can.
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Go back to the known, right?
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So think about it.
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That's how we're all wired for thousands of years.
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Is the known, is that more of a safe space or more fearful place that protects us from changing?
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Can you kind of give us an example of something like that for an individual?
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Like imagine a hundred years ago, somebody or 200 years ago, and I live in Philadelphia and there's a,
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flood, a really terrible flood.
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And my house gets washed away and everybody's house gets washed away.
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Okay, we are going to try to go back to the way it was before the flood as soon as we can, as soon as possible.
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Rebuild, grow the crops, make sure everybody's safe.
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We're gonna go back to that previous known pre-flood state, right?
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Wow, so basically you're saying we're going back to normalcy or what the norm was.
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Exactly.
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Actually, you just helped me understand when things like that happen in our world is actually the universe telling us it's time to change that format or the norm is time to change and shift.
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Right.
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It's like shifting your paradigm because it's trying to get you to say, no, don't go back like we had the pandemic.
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Yes.
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We got to change.
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Good.
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And the pandemic is such a great example.
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We've, you know, I've been dealing with all these executives and a lot of the senior executives, especially the older ones, especially the guys, they want to go back to like, okay, now everybody's going to come back to work five days a week.
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I'm like, no, they're not.
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They're just not going to do it.
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And you're going to lose your best people if you try and make them.
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But there's that, oh, we got to go back to the way it was
Mindset Strategies for Embracing Change
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in 2019.
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No, I'm sorry, that ship has sailed.
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We're never going to go back to that.
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So we have to rewire ourselves to get better at moving forward, at changing.
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And it's beautifully the way you said it, because it makes so much sense why progress is necessary, not only for change, but for development.
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So with that being said, with that explanation, which was...
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Perfect.
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How do we get comfortable accepting that it's time to change?
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What state emotionally or mentally we have to be in to have the right perspective to move forward and not like trigger our own selves with our own self-imposed pressure and fears.
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Come back.
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Yes, that is my favorite question.
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I love that you asked that, Eric.
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Yeah.
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Oh, and this is tangential, but I want to say it.
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So there's a, in Spanish, there's this wonderful word, tocayo or tocayo.
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And it means somebody who shares your name.
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So since I'm Erica and you're Eric, we're each other's tokayos.
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Ah, tokayos.
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I like that.
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The E's for energy.
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Excellent.
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Anyway, okay.
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So here's the answer.
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So when I started thinking about like really observing and doing research, like what happens when somebody goes through change?
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So we came to understand that it's this thing that we have now called the change arc because you know how
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An arc is it gets harder going up and then it's easier coming down.
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So the beginning of the change arc is what we call proposed change.
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And what that means is when a change comes at you, almost without exception, we want to know three things.
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And the first thing we want to know, this is how we go through change.
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The first thing we want to know is what does this mean for me?
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That's good.
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That's great.
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Yes.
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What am I going to have to do differently?
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What impact is this going to have personally on me?
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That's always our first question.
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Yes.
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And then if you think back to the beginning of the pandemic, what does this mean for me?
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Am I going to have to wear a mask?
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Am I going to have to get a vaccine?
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Right?
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So then the second question is, why is this happening?
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Because we have such a strong preference for the status quo, it's like, give me a really good reason.
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Give me a reason why I should change.
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So that's the second question is why.
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And the third question is, what will it look like when the change has been made?
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I want to get a picture of the future.
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Because one of the interesting things when I was writing the book, I found out that a lot of
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psychiatrists and neuropsychologists think now that our deepest fear is fear of the unknown, which completely makes sense given all we were just saying before about how we're wired.
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And so if you tell somebody they're going to have to make a change, but you don't tell them what it's going to look like afterwards, that's terrifying.
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That's like just walking into the dark at night, right?
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So those are the three things we want to know.
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What does this mean for me?
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Why is it happening?
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And what will it look like when it's done?
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So the questions that people start asking when a change is, you know, imposed upon them, it's all about that.
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What does that mean
Five-Step Change Model Explained
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for me?
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Why is it happening?
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What will it look like?
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And because we have this kind of negative mindset about change, even as we're asking those questions, we already are making negative assumptions about the change.
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Yes.
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Right.
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What we assume is that the change is going to be difficult and costly and
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and weird.
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Yes.
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Cosmic for sure and weird, absolutely.
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Is some of confirmation bias is in with things change?
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Absolutely.
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Because it's like we want to make it make sense for whatever we're going.
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So I'll share something briefly.
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So I just recently cut my hair.
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I had a lot of hair, almost had dreadlocks, and I had my hair for four years.
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But prior to those four years, I always had like a haircut,
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And it was fine.
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So I know, spiritually speaking, my spirit was like, it's time to cut your hair because I like to change.
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I want to change.
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I do not like staying the same.
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So I cut my hair and then you go out in public and people say, oh my God.
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And the first question is, how do you feel?
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Do you like it?
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And then it makes you question how do you feel, even if you know you feel okay because you've had a haircut before.
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So I got a cut, went to bed that night, woke up the next day, went in the mirror like, oh snap, I got a haircut.
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I'm different.
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It's a process, even though it's subtle, you have to get over, but I'm okay because I'm okay with who I am.
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But I look at that in such a small spectrum of what people go through and like a divorce, a job promotion, losing someone close to them, pandemic, that change of what does that mean for me?
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Why?
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And what does this look like moving forward?
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So let's use that as an example.
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So let's suspect that when you first started thinking about cutting your hair, you didn't do it at first because you thought it's going to be difficult, costly, and weird.
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Oh, it's going to be, I'm not sure I can get it right.
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And it'll cost.
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And costly is interesting because it's not, what people are worried about with change is not so much time and money.
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It's things like
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identity.
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Yeah.
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And new photos.
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What are my Instagram going to look like?
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How am I going to come off to the public?
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Oh, I'm wearing snapbacks again.
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Yeah.
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How often do I get a haircut?
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Identity, reputation, relationships.
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It's like it's going to cost me these things that are valuable and weird.
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It's just like, oh, that's not I don't know.
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Right.
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And so then what we noticed is when and I'm sure you came to this point in your hair saga,
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When people decide to make a change or decide they're okay with a change, it's almost never because something externally changes.
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It's because their mindset shifts.
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And they start thinking to themselves, oh, this could be easy versus difficult, or it could be at least doable, right?
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Could be easy, could be rewarding, could give me more than it takes away.
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And it could be normal.
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could be normal to have my hair completely different.
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I used to have it like that.
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Other people have it like that.
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That's normal, right?
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And when our, that's why the book's called Change From the Inside Out.
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I realized that it's this interior mindset shift.
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Interior mindset.
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That is the heart of making a change.
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And when someone, when an individual human being starts thinking, oh,
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this could be easy, rewarding and normal, then they're willing to do it.
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They're willing to do the behaviors, to take the steps, to do the things that the change requires.
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You saw it at the beginning of the pandemic.
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I remember when I read this article early, early on, it was in March of 2020 about social distancing.
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And I remember reading the article going, that's weird.
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We can't do that.
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That's costly.
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That's difficult.
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And then I reread it and I started to go, yeah, gosh, this is good science this guy is talking about.
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Maybe we do need to do this.
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And by the end of the day, I was like, OK, we're going to close the office and we're going to see what happens.
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And nothing changed externally, just my mindset changed.
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And with change, with all your research and with your books written and stuff you know, is there some stats on how long it takes a person to change or get through a process of change?
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Does it take weeks?
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Does it take months?
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Does it take hours?
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Or maybe it's just, it varies based on the individual.
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What does that look like?
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The actual change takes a moment.
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Yeah, I learned in an NLP, some change can happen in an instant.
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Yes, that moment when you go, oh, okay, I guess this could be, but then, you know, sometimes it takes weeks or even months.
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It's so individual and it's so...
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personal and dependent on how stuck the person is when they start, you know, right?
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But it can happen in a moment.
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I mean, I've, have you had conversations with people where they're going kind of no, no, no, no.
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And all of a sudden they're like, oh, maybe, oh, yes.
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Oh yeah.
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I never looked at it like that.
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Right?
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Oh, interesting perspective.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And so one of the things, so then that's the first couple of chapters of the book.
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So then we talk about how do you help people go through that change arc?
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Yes.
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And so one of the statistics that I...
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talk about in the book is that McKinsey has a bunch of data that shows that most organizational change efforts fail.
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70% of them fail.
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70%?
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70%.
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Why?
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Isn't that crazy?
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Well, it is a lot.
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And by fail, they mean fail to achieve the
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you know, the marks kind of like, maybe they don't fail altogether, but they don't make the money.
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They don't, it doesn't help the organization in a way, but so they don't, they don't work the way you hope they will.
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70%, right?
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And what they, if you dig down into that data a little bit more, it turns out that the main reasons for that are lack of management support and employee buy-in.
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They haven't gone through the change arc, right?
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They haven't changed.
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And they're just like, nah, nah, no, I don't believe it, right?
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So we have this five-step change model that is a wonderful, I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I think it's a great way to integrate the practical nuts and bolts things you have to do to make a change while helping all the individuals who are involved through that mindset shift, through that change up.
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Yeah, it's beautiful because I think with all of that, you go through the process of internally, the interchange arc changing.
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Then you change.
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My question is, once you change, there's so much uncertainty, right?
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So as an individual, how does one get comfortable with uncertainty that exists in that moment?
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So say for instance, a young kid coming out of college, he knows he's gonna be drafted into the NBA.
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but he doesn't know where he's going to go.
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Now he automatically is changing because he's getting drafted to go to the pros, but he's so on so much uncertainty.
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Yeah.
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Is there even a way to feel comfortable or you're dating someone for six months and then, you know, is at some time it might time for the relationship, but it's so much uncertainty because there's no, you don't know what's next, but you're in it.
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How do you get comfortable in uncertainty after you change over a period of time?
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Oh, I love that question.
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So I think it comes back again to mindset.
00:19:21
Speaker
If you're like, one of the things that I talk about in the book is if you look at change, books on change that were written 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, they kind of act like, all right, so we're just going to do this one change.
00:19:37
Speaker
We're going to pick the organization up.
00:19:38
Speaker
We're going to shake it around.
00:19:39
Speaker
We're going to put it back down again.
00:19:40
Speaker
And then we're done, you know?
00:19:42
Speaker
And so it's, you know, give a man a fish versus teach him how to fish.
00:19:46
Speaker
And so in our approach and in my book, I say what, you know, the subtitle, making you, your team, your organization more change capable, better at going through that uncertainty.
00:19:59
Speaker
So as you get better at kind of shifting your own mindset, it's this wonderful thing where
00:20:07
Speaker
Okay, so let me talk about mindset.
00:20:09
Speaker
So you know that we all talk to ourselves all the time.
00:20:12
Speaker
I do it all day, every day.
00:20:13
Speaker
We all
Learning and Growth Through Language and Feedback
00:20:14
Speaker
do.
00:20:14
Speaker
It's like that little chyron that runs on the bottom of the newsfeed.
00:20:17
Speaker
It's like we're just saying stuff to ourselves all the time, right?
00:20:20
Speaker
And some of it is pretty benign.
00:20:23
Speaker
It doesn't really matter.
00:20:24
Speaker
It's like, I like oranges.
00:20:25
Speaker
It's really hot today.
00:20:26
Speaker
That guy has big nose.
00:20:27
Speaker
You know, we just say all kinds of random stuff.
00:20:30
Speaker
But some of the stuff we say to ourselves, especially stuff about change is really unhelpful.
00:20:35
Speaker
We reinforce that, oh, this is going to be really like, let's use your example of a kid who gets into the NBA and hasn't the faintest idea what that's going to be like.
00:20:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:45
Speaker
So he could, his self-talk could be, oh my God, this is going to be really hard.
00:20:50
Speaker
I'm not going to know anybody.
00:20:51
Speaker
It's going to be terrible.
00:20:52
Speaker
And, you know, just turning that uncertainty into negativity, into difficult, costly, weird, right?
00:20:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:00
Speaker
Or he could say, wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:21:02
Speaker
I don't, I don't, I really don't know if it's going to be good or bad.
00:21:06
Speaker
I know I'm a good football player, a good basketball player.
00:21:09
Speaker
I know that they have, I'm sure they must have ways to onboard new people.
00:21:16
Speaker
I know how to ask good questions, right?
00:21:19
Speaker
So you can talk to yourself in ways that acknowledge the uncertainty and
00:21:25
Speaker
and say, what can I do about it versus going, oh, this is going to be horrible and I don't have the face to face it.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, so I have a really, really deep question.
00:21:32
Speaker
And I don't know if you can answer it, but I want to ask it because with that being said, I'm thinking, OK, cool.
00:21:39
Speaker
You just helped me.
00:21:40
Speaker
You just helped me understand the conversation you have in your mind about uncertainty.
00:21:44
Speaker
You can change it.
00:21:46
Speaker
So therefore, you can change it to a more positive versus a negative.
00:21:50
Speaker
Does that mean you attract better or more or better outcome versus if you were in your negative?
00:21:57
Speaker
Because I always think about how we attract people into our life and our vortex.
00:22:02
Speaker
So I'm thinking like a player like that who has the right mindset and perspective about where he potentially can go, if you look at it like more positive outcome,
00:22:10
Speaker
Does his outcome be more positive if it doesn't work out or does it become negative?
00:22:16
Speaker
Like does that, basically what I'm saying, does that alter the outcome based on the thoughts and the mentality?
00:22:22
Speaker
I love that question.
00:22:24
Speaker
And yes, my observation is if I can get my self-talk, how I'm talking to myself about an unknown situation, if I can get it just to neutral, because if you make it too positive, then you're going to be all disappointed.
00:22:40
Speaker
You're not being real.
00:22:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:41
Speaker
You're not being real.
00:22:42
Speaker
Exactly right.
00:22:43
Speaker
You want to be a fair witness.
00:22:44
Speaker
So you get it to neutral.
00:22:46
Speaker
So that kid who's in the NBA, the proper thing for him to be saying to himself was, I don't know.
00:22:52
Speaker
and I'm gonna do everything I can to make it work.
00:22:55
Speaker
And here's what I do know.
00:22:56
Speaker
I'm a good athlete.
00:22:59
Speaker
They had confidence in me.
00:23:00
Speaker
I know that's true.
00:23:02
Speaker
I already know this one guy who I like.
00:23:05
Speaker
The things that, if you're going to say positive things, they have to be believable.
00:23:09
Speaker
They have to be real.
00:23:12
Speaker
And then everything else, you just say neutral.
00:23:14
Speaker
It's so good to get to neutral about change.
00:23:18
Speaker
Because then, to your point, you're open for what comes.
00:23:22
Speaker
Right.
00:23:22
Speaker
So in a nutshell, you just explained when there's uncertainty, because you answered that question in so many different ways that I got different answers coming through.
00:23:32
Speaker
It's best to be neutral when uncertainty arrives and have a more neutral perspective and outlook, because therefore you can save yourself anxiety, stress, and create a better opportunity moving forward that's more certain.
00:23:48
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:23:49
Speaker
That's a great way to summarize it.
00:23:50
Speaker
And it also, what I've noticed is
00:23:54
Speaker
When I can get myself neutral mentally about an uncertain situation, it's like there's less white noise in my head.
00:24:03
Speaker
There's less static, right?
00:24:05
Speaker
And so then I can actually observe what's really going on and I can take advantage of the good stuff.
00:24:13
Speaker
There was this great guy.
00:24:14
Speaker
Did you ever hear of a guy named Branch Rickey?
00:24:17
Speaker
Do you know that name?
00:24:18
Speaker
He sounds familiar, Branch Rickey.
00:24:20
Speaker
Who is he?
00:24:21
Speaker
He was a real seminal figure in American baseball.
00:24:24
Speaker
He brought the first Black player and the first Hispanic player into the major leagues, and he kind of invented the farm team system.
00:24:34
Speaker
He was an amazing guy.
00:24:36
Speaker
And he said that he used to, I guess his saying that he used to like to say was, luck is the residue of design.
00:24:48
Speaker
Oh.
00:24:49
Speaker
Isn't that a wonderful quote?
00:24:51
Speaker
Elaborate
Practical Advice for Navigating Change
00:24:52
Speaker
on that.
00:24:52
Speaker
I love it.
00:24:53
Speaker
He just swung my toes.
00:24:57
Speaker
Luck is the residue of design.
00:24:58
Speaker
Interesting.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:59
Speaker
So what that means to me is people look at somebody and they go, oh, that person's so lucky.
00:25:05
Speaker
But what Branch was saying is when you think somebody's lucky, it's just because they have the proper mindset.
00:25:13
Speaker
They have the proper orientation.
00:25:15
Speaker
They've thought through what they want to have happen.
00:25:16
Speaker
They've done that design inside their heads, and now they're open.
00:25:21
Speaker
And so when something wanders by that they can take advantage of, they take advantage of it because they can see it.
00:25:27
Speaker
they can see it because they neutralize the mind to see it.
00:25:33
Speaker
Because I feel like when you're neutral, you can kind of see it from both ways and you don't stray way too strong.
00:25:39
Speaker
And you're able to have equilibrium and balance and say, you know what?
00:25:42
Speaker
I like this.
00:25:43
Speaker
This could happen, but I'm going to be neutral and I'm going to do the best I can.
00:25:46
Speaker
I'm going to be open to the outcome.
00:25:48
Speaker
And I'm going to let that determine where I go moving forward.
00:25:51
Speaker
Precisely.
00:25:51
Speaker
And to use the word confirmation bias before, if you're neutral, you don't get tripped up by your confirmation.
00:25:57
Speaker
Yeah, because that's the confirmation by always looking for.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:26:01
Speaker
That's why they would do this and that.
00:26:03
Speaker
And honestly, that's why I go back to the question prior that that secures and verify confirmation bias when we think a certain way and then we think something didn't happen because we're looking for it like, oh, that's why they didn't call me back clearly.
00:26:18
Speaker
And so it goes back to attraction, right?
00:26:20
Speaker
We're thinking, we attract.
00:26:22
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:24
Speaker
Our mind is so powerful.
00:26:26
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:26:27
Speaker
Our mind is powerful.
00:26:28
Speaker
My older brother, who sadly died last year, he was ill for a long time and such an amazing person.
00:26:35
Speaker
And he used to say, every head is a planet.
00:26:41
Speaker
And I totally agree with that.
00:26:43
Speaker
Like we are all, we're all creating our own reality all the time.
00:26:48
Speaker
And so much of our experience of life is what's going on inside our head.
00:26:54
Speaker
And we don't realize how much control we have over what's going on inside our head and over how we see what's happening around us.
00:27:02
Speaker
Right?
00:27:03
Speaker
And it's interesting, God bless your brother's soul, because it's still here present to this day, because he just came up in this conversation.
00:27:10
Speaker
Everybody here is a planet.
00:27:11
Speaker
I love that.
00:27:12
Speaker
That's a quote.
00:27:12
Speaker
We should put it on his shirt.
00:27:14
Speaker
What planet it is.
00:27:15
Speaker
I don't know.
00:27:15
Speaker
Mars, Venus, Jupiter.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's one of those things that I've discovered as an individual.
00:27:25
Speaker
I can control how I see things, right?
00:27:28
Speaker
If I change the way I look at things, the things I look at change.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yes, me growing up in a negative environment of Baltimore City was a lot of negativity in the environment.
00:27:38
Speaker
If I would attach myself or engaged in that energy of negativity, I will become it.
00:27:43
Speaker
But I always say when I was a kid, it has to be something better than just this goes back to the beginning.
00:27:50
Speaker
I was curious.
00:27:51
Speaker
And so that curiosity like neutralized my thoughts and emotions to not be so vetted into that space because it was my environment that I didn't become it and allow me to push out and attract and do different and better things and have conversations like this today.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yes, I 1 million percent agree with you.
00:28:11
Speaker
There's a there's a camera who was some Greek philosopher who said this wonderful thing and then Eleanor Roosevelt picked up on it, but I it's exactly what you're saying he said, we can't always control our circumstances.
00:28:26
Speaker
But we can always control our reaction to those circumstances.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:32
Speaker
And to feed off of that, I think Napoleon Hill, maybe, what's this guy?
00:28:39
Speaker
As a man thinker, forgot the author.
00:28:40
Speaker
He said, man is willing to change his circumstances, but he's not willing to change himself.
00:28:46
Speaker
But if he's willing to change himself, his circumstances will change.
00:28:49
Speaker
And it goes back to your book, changing from the inside out.
00:28:53
Speaker
Exactly.
00:28:54
Speaker
Exactly.
Resources and Further Exploration of Change Topics
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:58
Speaker
So, so with the book, with the book now, is there any information about Pete, some people having a capacity to change more than others based on DNA, genetic or psychological, like growth mindset versus fixed, fixed mindset.
00:29:16
Speaker
Is there some type of information on that or just more general idea of changing from your perspective?
00:29:22
Speaker
So,
00:29:24
Speaker
as I say, it's like a fingerprint.
00:29:26
Speaker
Every person's ability to become change capable is impacted by so much.
00:29:32
Speaker
It's impacted by all the same things that lead to growth and fixed mindset, by your upbringing and how you think of yourself and whether or not you're willing to do the work to kind of break through your limitations.
00:29:44
Speaker
It's so individual.
00:29:46
Speaker
So what I always try and do in my books is lay out a really practical path
00:29:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:29:53
Speaker
For whatever, like in the Be Bad First book, it's how do you get to be a better learner?
00:29:59
Speaker
In the change book, it's how can I become more change capable?
00:30:03
Speaker
And then I feel like
00:30:04
Speaker
I just offer it and an individual does what they can do.
00:30:10
Speaker
And for you, how do you continue to grow and change?
00:30:13
Speaker
What is something you do in an intangible way every day that keeps you consistent on changing?
00:30:20
Speaker
Do you read a lot?
00:30:21
Speaker
Do you meditate?
00:30:22
Speaker
Do you pray?
00:30:22
Speaker
Do you go for walks?
00:30:23
Speaker
Do you work out?
00:30:24
Speaker
I think the listeners would love to know from someone so powerful as you are,
00:30:29
Speaker
Because we only get to see what you show us and we don't understand what you do when you're not showing us what you consist of.
00:30:36
Speaker
What do you do that help you change and grow and evolve in a productive way?
00:30:41
Speaker
Oh man, these are such great questions, Eric.
00:30:44
Speaker
So one thing I do that's very specific is for the last five years, I've been learning to speak Spanish.
00:30:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:52
Speaker
Un poquito Espanol.
00:30:56
Speaker
I don't even know what she said.
00:31:02
Speaker
And it's a great example because it goes up against not... I think it's so much easier if people learn languages early in life, but, you know, pretty advanced life to learn a whole new language.
00:31:17
Speaker
It really runs up against all that difficult, costly, weird stuff, you know?
00:31:21
Speaker
And so I notice...
00:31:24
Speaker
having to change my mindset every time and what my husband and I have found a part of northern Spain that we really love that I think we're going to probably buy a little place there and almost nobody speaks English so don't really have a choice when I go there I have to speak Spanish put yourself in a position where you have to do it
00:31:42
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a stretch.
00:31:44
Speaker
Every time it's a stretch, it's like that thing in you goes, but I don't know how to, what if they think I'm, you know, so that's a big one.
00:31:51
Speaker
And I work on it every day.
00:31:53
Speaker
And whenever I'm around somebody who speaks Spanish, I try to speak Spanish.
00:31:55
Speaker
So that's a big one.
00:31:57
Speaker
But then just in general, I really try to, back to the beginning, stay curious and open about every change that comes my way.
00:32:07
Speaker
You know, whether it's with work, like I'm shifting my relationship to work some, I'm pulling back from the day to day running of my company and my partners are running it now.
00:32:17
Speaker
And that's a big change.
00:32:19
Speaker
And watching my reaction to that and getting better at that.
00:32:22
Speaker
I'm, you know, I just turned 70.
00:32:23
Speaker
So like, Oh, you look amazing.
00:32:26
Speaker
You're not, I don't know what 70 looks like, but I wouldn't have thought that you look incredible.
00:32:31
Speaker
Let's go, Erica.
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:32:34
Speaker
So what is that?
00:32:35
Speaker
You know, what's that shift?
00:32:36
Speaker
And what does that mean?
00:32:37
Speaker
And what does it mean to be kind of like a tribal elder in a way?
00:32:41
Speaker
And, you know, there's so, so many things to be curious about and notice.
00:32:45
Speaker
And as you said, at the very beginning, our lives change every day in ways big and small.
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:50
Speaker
And so I just always try and practice what I preach, you know.
00:32:53
Speaker
Amen.
00:32:54
Speaker
Because I think and believe great change comes with great awareness, being aware that you're changing and thinking about the change.
00:33:03
Speaker
So I want to go back into change, but I want to go into the book previous to Change from the Inside Out is be bad first, get good at things fast, and stay ready.
00:33:13
Speaker
So about four years ago, I hired a speech coach, a dialect coach.
00:33:17
Speaker
I'm from Baltimore, so we have strong accents.
00:33:20
Speaker
And so instead of saying Baltimore, we're going to say Baltimore.
00:33:23
Speaker
Instead of saying mother, we might say mother.
00:33:25
Speaker
So going into the one-on-one sessions, we're doing puh, buh, duh, blah, right?
00:33:31
Speaker
And she's like, I guess she felt that I would feel ashamed.
00:33:35
Speaker
And I'm like, no, I want to get better.
00:33:38
Speaker
It's interesting, like over the course of the time, because I was so focused on changing certain words and consonants and
00:33:45
Speaker
finishing words and all these things, I was hyper-focused.
00:33:49
Speaker
I thought I was making mistakes, right?
00:33:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:53
Speaker
However, when I did on-camera interviews or things would happen, I'm like,
00:33:59
Speaker
my language and my dialect and my diction is changing.
00:34:03
Speaker
But in a moment, it didn't feel that way because I felt like I was still struggling.
00:34:07
Speaker
So is there some type of informational awareness or information you might have that there's a moment where no matter what you think you feel, eventually you're gonna change because it's human nature, you're doing the work.
00:34:20
Speaker
Yes, sometimes we can't see the progress or the change because we're showing up every day, but we don't think we're doing as great as others see like the guy you said earlier, who neutralized his mindset.
00:34:32
Speaker
He's able to grab on opportunity, but people think he's lucky.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:37
Speaker
So, so two, two things.
00:34:39
Speaker
I love this and I do love about learning.
00:34:42
Speaker
In fact, when I
00:34:44
Speaker
when I decided to learn to speak Spanish, it was right after the Be Bad First book came out, because I thought I really need to, again, practice what I preach.
00:34:52
Speaker
What's something that I can learn to do that I
00:34:55
Speaker
You know, I can use my skills.
00:34:57
Speaker
So two things.
00:34:58
Speaker
And I love your example is great.
00:35:00
Speaker
So what the first thing is, again, self-talk, right?
00:35:04
Speaker
OK, so the perfect self-talk, it turns out, for learning a new thing is a balance of saying two things to yourself.
00:35:13
Speaker
One is I'm not good at this now.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:17
Speaker
Right.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:18
Speaker
And the other is I can get good at this.
00:35:23
Speaker
So good.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yes, people tend to over index on one or the other.
00:35:29
Speaker
Some people just say, oh, I'm not good at this.
00:35:31
Speaker
And then that's all.
00:35:32
Speaker
And then they don't think they could do it.
00:35:33
Speaker
And they just, you know, it bumps them out.
00:35:35
Speaker
Some people is like, I'm good at this.
00:35:37
Speaker
I'm already good.
00:35:38
Speaker
No, I'm bad at it now because I'm just starting.
00:35:41
Speaker
And I can get good.
00:35:43
Speaker
I'm capable of getting good at it.
00:35:45
Speaker
And if you just keep saying those two things to yourself in balance over, that's what moves you along that learning curve, right?
00:35:54
Speaker
So that's thing one.
00:35:55
Speaker
And thing two is find somebody to spot you.
00:36:00
Speaker
Because you said when you listen to a video, then you're like, oh, I am getting better.
00:36:07
Speaker
When we're trying to learn, we have to have people in our lives
00:36:11
Speaker
who care about us, who are willing to tell us the truth and who see us clearly.
00:36:18
Speaker
Right.
00:36:19
Speaker
And then because you can't like, you can't see the spinach in your own teeth, right?
00:36:23
Speaker
You got to have people in your life who you can turn to and say, am I getting better at this?
00:36:28
Speaker
And if you are, they'll say yes.
00:36:30
Speaker
And if you're not, they'll say no.
00:36:32
Speaker
Right.
00:36:32
Speaker
Feedback is motivation.
00:36:34
Speaker
Good or bad.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, yes.
00:36:37
Speaker
And feedback is a partner of mine once told me a business, my first business partner, he used to say this great thing about feedback being the breakfast, lunch and dinner of champions.
00:36:49
Speaker
And he said, right?
00:36:51
Speaker
That's a bigger talks moment.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:53
Speaker
Say that again.
00:36:54
Speaker
Feedback is the breakfast, lunch, and dinner of champions.
00:37:00
Speaker
And the reason he said that is because feedback is the only way we learn.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I said, Marty, wait, what do you mean?
00:37:09
Speaker
What do you mean?
00:37:09
Speaker
He said, okay, think about it this way.
00:37:11
Speaker
When a little kid is trying to learn to talk,
00:37:16
Speaker
It turns out that if a kid who can hear is raised by two deaf parents and there's nobody else in the environment, the kid won't learn to talk.
00:37:28
Speaker
Right?
00:37:29
Speaker
Because he won't get that feedback that all children get off like, oh, honey, did you hear?
00:37:35
Speaker
He said, mom, he said, book, he said, doggy, right?
00:37:39
Speaker
They don't hear that.
00:37:41
Speaker
So the kid doesn't get that feedback and doesn't learn to talk.
00:37:45
Speaker
people.
00:37:45
Speaker
Did you hear what she said?
00:37:46
Speaker
Feedback is the only way we learn.
00:37:51
Speaker
Interesting.
00:37:51
Speaker
It's so true.
00:37:52
Speaker
I always would say feedback is motivation because you have naysayers and doubters and then you have people who celebrate you and support you.
00:37:59
Speaker
It's still feedback and you're learning what to take in, how to process it, and then you're able to change.
00:38:06
Speaker
Right.
00:38:07
Speaker
But think about
00:38:09
Speaker
think about all the things we learn when we're zero to five.
00:38:14
Speaker
We learn to talk, we learn to walk, we learn to interact with other people, we learn to eat.
00:38:20
Speaker
That only happens because we get feedback.
00:38:23
Speaker
Like when a kid stands up and tries to walk and then does something with their balance that makes them fall down, that's feedback.
00:38:32
Speaker
And they get up and try it again and gradually learn how to balance themselves and move forward and do their arms and legs.
00:38:39
Speaker
That's all because they're getting feedback from the environment, from gravity.
00:38:42
Speaker
If a kid, again, like the kid with deaf parents, if a kid was in a weightless environment, they probably wouldn't learn how to walk because they'd never get that feedback, right?
00:38:52
Speaker
Feedback.
00:38:52
Speaker
You need feedback from everything.
00:38:54
Speaker
The universe, parents, friends, the environment.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:58
Speaker
So just to give the people, the listeners some feedback, how do individuals going through change, far as quitting a job, leaving a job, being promoted, new relationship, leaving a relationship, new opportunity, how do they embrace change or what would you be advice in their moment?
00:39:23
Speaker
Because I feel like the people I'm talking about, they're kind of like in the middle of their,
00:39:27
Speaker
either their celebration or their chaos, right, of changing and accepting it and going to the next level.
00:39:32
Speaker
Like, what is your first word of advice or intention for someone who's in a not an uncomfortable situation, but not so comfortable, there's a little uncertainty, they know they must change, but they're so afraid of changing, but even though they are changing.
00:39:49
Speaker
So again, I love that you asked this question.
00:39:52
Speaker
So it's interesting.
00:39:53
Speaker
We have this, I said before, and it's in the book, we have this five-step change model that we use with organizations.
00:39:59
Speaker
But what I've been realizing recently is that it's great for individual change too.
00:40:06
Speaker
Let me just walk you through it.
00:40:07
Speaker
So let's say somebody is trying to decide whether or not to leave their job, right?
00:40:13
Speaker
And look for another job.
00:40:14
Speaker
Big change.
00:40:15
Speaker
A lot of people think to this.
00:40:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:18
Speaker
So the first step of our model is called clarify the change and why it's needed.
00:40:25
Speaker
I like that.
00:40:25
Speaker
Right?
00:40:27
Speaker
So before you just roll into it, some people just quit their job.
00:40:31
Speaker
I hate this job.
00:40:32
Speaker
It's like, hold up, hold up.
00:40:33
Speaker
Really get...
00:40:34
Speaker
clear about why you want to make a change and what that change would be.
00:40:41
Speaker
So really think, really use your brain and think like, okay, do I want to, do I not like this kind of work or do I not like this company or do I not like having a full-time?
00:40:53
Speaker
What do I not like about this that I actually want to change?
00:40:56
Speaker
So let's get real clear about what I want to change and then why.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:01
Speaker
Okay, I hate the toxic culture of this.
00:41:03
Speaker
Okay, that's a good why.
00:41:05
Speaker
Okay, so just get really clear about what's the change you're contemplating?
00:41:09
Speaker
Why do you wanna make it?
00:41:10
Speaker
Okay, that's step one.
00:41:12
Speaker
Then step two is, and this is back to what we were talking about before, envision the future state.
00:41:17
Speaker
What would good look like?
00:41:20
Speaker
Because a lot of times people roll into a change without having a clear idea of what they're really going for.
00:41:27
Speaker
You know, do I want to?
00:41:28
Speaker
So what would good look like?
00:41:30
Speaker
It would be I'm working in an organization where I really care about the purpose of the organization and the people around are good people.
00:41:38
Speaker
And it's full time, but it's not like 60 hours a week.
00:41:42
Speaker
OK.
00:41:42
Speaker
And it's in this part of the country.
00:41:44
Speaker
You just get as clear as you can about the future that you want, that you hope will happen if you make the change.
00:41:50
Speaker
So that's step two.
00:41:52
Speaker
And then step three is you build the change.
00:41:55
Speaker
You actually make a plan like, OK, what do I need to do?
00:41:58
Speaker
Do I need to get my resume out?
00:41:59
Speaker
Do I need to call a recruiter?
00:42:01
Speaker
Do I need to look online?
00:42:02
Speaker
What's the best way to find those jobs?
00:42:04
Speaker
How do I vet them?
00:42:05
Speaker
What kind of questions do I want to ask to make sure if it would line up with my future?
00:42:09
Speaker
So you build that plan.
00:42:10
Speaker
And that's a great point.
00:42:12
Speaker
That's like building rapport with change.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:42:15
Speaker
It's like you're building rapport with it.
00:42:16
Speaker
Like, okay, we know we're doing this.
00:42:18
Speaker
How do we build rapport in a positive, effective way to make it move to the next step?
00:42:23
Speaker
Precisely.
00:42:24
Speaker
And then step four is we call lead the transition.
00:42:27
Speaker
So you actually do the things you said you were going to do.
00:42:30
Speaker
And you, you kind of manage your own mindset as you start to get freaked out.
00:42:36
Speaker
It's like, calm down.
00:42:37
Speaker
I've planned.
00:42:37
Speaker
I know what I'm doing.
00:42:38
Speaker
I know why I'm doing it.
00:42:39
Speaker
I know what I'm going for.
00:42:41
Speaker
I've got a plan in place that to make it seem more, you know, easy, rewarding and normal for yourself.
00:42:47
Speaker
Right.
00:42:48
Speaker
And then you keep the change going.
00:42:50
Speaker
And if people approach change in that kind of planful way that balances their mental model and the practical things they need to do, I think that's the best way to go through change.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah, because it's a process.
00:43:03
Speaker
It's structure.
00:43:04
Speaker
You have structure around changing.
00:43:05
Speaker
You're not just changing because you feel an emotion or you were traumatized by a situation.
00:43:10
Speaker
You're kind of processing it, understanding it, and saying, OK, this is clear.
00:43:15
Speaker
I have some certainty here.
00:43:17
Speaker
I think I want to move forward.
00:43:18
Speaker
And then you can see the future, right?
00:43:21
Speaker
Because some things we can visualize, but in the moment, we probably can't see past that moment.
00:43:25
Speaker
Isn't that interesting?
00:43:27
Speaker
Like I can see myself in a place, but in a moment, I can't see that place the way I see it in my mind, if that makes sense.
00:43:34
Speaker
It's like if you're in the gym.
00:43:37
Speaker
If you can see the moment, then you can almost always build a path to that moment.
00:43:43
Speaker
Ah, okay, that's good.
00:43:44
Speaker
Right?
00:43:45
Speaker
And I'll brag about my kids.
00:43:49
Speaker
So I have three kids, two biological, one acquired.
00:43:53
Speaker
I have two kids, two daughters and a son.
00:43:56
Speaker
And over the last year, they're all married, they all have kids.
00:43:59
Speaker
And over the last year, they've all moved.
00:44:02
Speaker
They've moved my older daughter and her husband and their kids moved from upstate New York to Maine.
00:44:08
Speaker
My son and his wife and their kids moved from LA back to Brooklyn.
00:44:12
Speaker
My younger daughter, who's a doctor, is having to move to do a fellowship in her specialty.
00:44:20
Speaker
And they all approached it in this really planful way.
00:44:24
Speaker
They didn't just like, well, I guess we're going back to it.
00:44:27
Speaker
You know, they really thought about why, why are we doing this?
00:44:31
Speaker
What will it look like?
00:44:32
Speaker
What, what actually is the change?
00:44:34
Speaker
They made a plan.
00:44:36
Speaker
They got through the difficulties and, and I, it's so cool because they've all made these changes and they're really successful.
00:44:43
Speaker
And they did it like, as my son said to me, I did this like a grown ass man.
00:44:47
Speaker
You know, I didn't just, there you go.
00:44:49
Speaker
Preparation.
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:44:52
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:44:53
Speaker
Well, Erica, this was a phenomenal discussion.
00:44:57
Speaker
Thank you for giving so much wisdom and information and insight for the listeners.
00:45:02
Speaker
Is there anything you want to share before we get off here?
00:45:05
Speaker
And how can we get this book?
00:45:06
Speaker
We need the book.
00:45:07
Speaker
Where do we find it?
00:45:08
Speaker
How do we purchase it?
00:45:09
Speaker
Is it an ebook?
00:45:10
Speaker
Is it a physical copy?
00:45:11
Speaker
Should we come to your website?
00:45:13
Speaker
Let us know all the deeds.
00:45:15
Speaker
Okay, so it's on Amazon and it's a hard copy ebook and audio book, which I recorded.
00:45:21
Speaker
So listen, and you can go to my website, which is Erica Anderson.com E R I K A A N D E R S E N both spelled a little weirdly.com.
00:45:34
Speaker
And there you can find out about all the books and my podcast and you can go from there.
00:45:39
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:45:39
Speaker
What is your podcast?
00:45:41
Speaker
It's called the Proteus Leader Show.
00:45:44
Speaker
And what's the synopsis of that?
00:45:45
Speaker
Real quick for us.
00:45:47
Speaker
It's just a quick 15-minute kind of tips and insights for leaders and managers.
00:45:53
Speaker
Got it.
00:45:54
Speaker
So people follow her, get the podcast, subscribe to that as well.
00:45:57
Speaker
Buy the book.
00:45:58
Speaker
Buy the book.
00:46:00
Speaker
That would be good.
00:46:01
Speaker
And I think, you know, my I as I said, I write books when I get curious.
00:46:06
Speaker
But my main motivation for writing books is always to help people.
00:46:10
Speaker
I always want to share something that I think will be useful for people to create the lives they want to have.
00:46:17
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:46:18
Speaker
And we need that.
00:46:18
Speaker
I always say information changes situations.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:22
Speaker
And I feel like when we're lacking something, it's because we're lacking information.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:46:26
Speaker
Or we don't have the right perspective on a thing we think we should do because we haven't made the plan.
00:46:31
Speaker
We just jumped to the conclusion because a thought or a scenario without really processing what that means and building that rapport or change.
00:46:40
Speaker
So, Erica, thank you for your time, your energy and your essence.
00:46:43
Speaker
This was beautiful.
00:46:44
Speaker
This was another phenomenal Bigger Talks episode.
00:46:48
Speaker
And I'm pretty sure the listeners and everyone from all over the world will love this.
00:46:53
Speaker
And we need to follow you.
00:46:54
Speaker
You're on Twitter, right?
00:46:55
Speaker
Because you're not on Instagram.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:56
Speaker
Erica, I'm an early adopter on Twitter.
00:46:58
Speaker
So it's just Erica Amos.
00:47:00
Speaker
Got it.
00:47:00
Speaker
Well, that's it.
00:47:02
Speaker
That's all.
00:47:03
Speaker
People, Erica Anderson, she's phenomenal.
00:47:06
Speaker
The coach, the consultant, the business thinker, but she's all about changing from the inside out and helping you be capable with changing for yourself and your business and your life.
00:47:15
Speaker
Thank you once again.
00:47:16
Speaker
Bigger Talks, we're out.