Transcript
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Speaker: Hey, listeners, this college football season, remember that a little exaggeration makes every story more interesante.
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Speaker: Podcast One presents Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger, the show that brings together unexpected guests for unexpected conversations.
Speaker: Join The Bachelorette's Eric Bigger as he discusses the subcultures of American life, highlighting the strength of diversity and the power of vulnerability.
Speaker: And now for your host, Eric Bigger.
Speaker: Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks, we're back.
Speaker: Another episode.
Speaker: Feeling good, feeling great.
Speaker: How's everybody out there?
Speaker: I can't hear you.
Speaker: Oh, that's right.
Speaker: You're listening.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: But, hey, we have a new topic of the week, the dichotomy of success and failure.
Speaker: I have failed a lot in life.
Speaker: Honestly, from personal training to putting on boot camps and people not showing up.
Speaker: I didn't fail too much in school.
Speaker: I got one C my whole college career.
Speaker: So I'm pretty a cool nerd.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I always say if it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you.
Speaker: And episode today, we will talk about the setbacks on the challenges and the breakthroughs and the successes of failing.
Speaker: Liv, Michael, what have you guys been through?
Speaker: What challenged you?
Speaker: What have you failed that propelled you to be great or who you are today?
Speaker: Do you want me to go first?
Speaker: Yeah, lady first.
Speaker: Lady first.
Speaker: Let's go live.
Speaker: So we've been talking about this.
Speaker: For every failure, there's a success.
Speaker: For every success, there's a failure.
Speaker: Since a lot of what we talk about is relationships and love, where I think about my most distinct failures, I was a really good student.
Speaker: I'm early in my career and it's going well.
Speaker: I haven't had many setbacks in that, but I've had setbacks in relationships.
Speaker: And it's easy to think a failed relationship reflects on you.
Speaker: So I think failures for me have been not just going through a breakup, but kind of crumbling under that.
Speaker: When you have a moment where you feel like you've lost everything because you went through a breakup.
Speaker: To me, that feeling is more of the failure than the failed relationship.
Speaker: I pride myself on being independent.
Speaker: And then you have that moment where you're like, oh my gosh, that person's gone and I'm not independent and I'm sad and I feel horrible.
Speaker: And that to me is more of the failure.
Speaker: But I've had to learn that that is human and it's okay to be not okay.
Speaker: So I guess that's my.
Speaker: And it's OK not to be OK, because not being OK is how you become OK.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You know, Mike?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I think I failed at receiving for so long.
Speaker: And I have you guys here with me giving me feedback, giving me advice, giving me support.
Speaker: That's making me a better person.
Speaker: So thank you.
Speaker: I'm learning how to receive now because I failed before.
Speaker: So people, it's OK to have failures so you can get your success.
Speaker: Mike, what about you?
Speaker: I kind of side with you, Eric.
Speaker: I think I've given my whole life in a sense of, I think, to be honest, I think I've given more in friendships than I have in relationships.
Speaker: I've given, I put a lot of friends before my relationships.
Speaker: And when it, when it stuff hits the fan, you realize where you at.
Speaker: And I think that it actually comes down to being wins and losses, wins and lessons.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wins and lessons.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But the more you give, the better we live.
Speaker: I can say a lot.
Speaker: But you just have to keep pushing, man.
Speaker: That's how you learn from yourself.
Speaker: You just got to keep going.
Speaker: You got to persevere.
Speaker: But we have a guest in the studio today.
Speaker: I'm so excited and enthused because it's my aunt, Renee Myers.
Speaker: I love her so much.
Speaker: She's amazing.
Speaker: Diversity consultant, public speaker.
Speaker: Harvard Law School grad, Columbia.
Speaker: She went to Columbia undergrad.
Speaker: She's so brilliant, so smart, so outspoken, so driven, so willing.
Speaker: And she's in studio today.
Speaker: I can't wait to get in this because we're going to talk about some of her challenges in her life as a child and most importantly, in her marriage.
Speaker: Wait.
Speaker: You can't wait.
Speaker: Listen, this is going to be a good one.
Speaker: Guys, tune in.
Speaker: Tell a friend.
Speaker: Bigger Talks.
Speaker: We'll be back soon.
Speaker: We'll be back in a moment with more of Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger.
Speaker: In Southern California, you're in your car a lot.
Speaker: Over time, you're going to put some wear on it.
Speaker: But new Toyota owners don't really have to think about that because they have ToyotaCare.
Speaker: They just stop by the dealership, hand over the keys, and get no-cost factory maintenance, covering normal wear for two years or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Speaker: Get all the details on ToyotaCare when you visit buyatoyota.com.
Speaker: Your Southern California Toyota dealers make it easy.
Speaker: Toyota, let's go places.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: This week on Make Spidey Famous Again, Spencer and Heidi sit down with Sheena Shea.
Speaker: It was a group of us, but he's adorable.
Speaker: He's like, it's okay, I like older women.
Speaker: And I'm like, honey, I like older men.
Speaker: We're not really on the same page here.
Speaker: Download new episodes of Make Spidey Famous Again every Wednesday and Shenanigans with Sheena Shea every Tuesday on PodcastOne.com, the Podcast One app, and Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: Make sure to rate and review on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker: Welcome back to Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger.
Speaker: Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks with Bat.
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: I'm so happy.
Speaker: I'm so enthused, fulfilled with love and gratitude.
Speaker: Not only I have, you know, my producer Liv and my co-host Michael, but I have a special guest.
Speaker: I have my Aunt Vernee.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Auntie, say hi.
Speaker: Hi.
Speaker: Hi.
Speaker: I'm so happy to be here, too.
Speaker: Yeah, so for people who don't know, that's my aunt on my father's side.
Speaker: That's my father's sister.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: She is the breadwinner of the family.
Speaker: I wouldn't go that far.
Speaker: Can we not?
Speaker: Let's not get mistaken.
Speaker: You did go to Columbia.
Speaker: Yes, I did.
Speaker: Undergrad.
Speaker: Barnard, we like to say.
Speaker: Barnard.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And she went to Harvard Grad School.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Law school.
Speaker: Law school.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: See, she's fixing me.
Speaker: Marcelle and Barack, you know them, right?
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: See, you're amazing.
Speaker: TED Talk.
Speaker: She has a TED Talk.
Speaker: I mean, public speaker, you do it all.
Speaker: But you're in town.
Speaker: You're here.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: How you feeling?
Speaker: I feel awesome.
Speaker: I just had a full week of work.
Speaker: Started in Oregon and then came to Sacramento.
Speaker: Well, actually, we were supposed to go up north, but then ultimately we went to Santa Monica and then I was just at Huntington Beach a few minutes ago until I got here.
Speaker: Yeah, so you're just busy.
Speaker: I want to have your life.
Speaker: Give me five years, maybe ten.
Speaker: You have a fabulous life.
Speaker: Well, you're traveling the world.
Speaker: I wouldn't do that.
Speaker: But no, I'm inspired by you.
Speaker: Thank you for being in my life much as you are.
Speaker: But to the people listening, my aunt was on The Bachelorette Hometowns.
Speaker: If you've seen my hometown episode and she asked Rachel Lindsay, how do you feel being the first African-American woman to be in this position?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it was like, oh my gosh, she took it there.
Speaker: She asked a tough question.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Antique, for the people listening who don't know you, can you kind of like give them a background on like on your upbringing, where you from, just your life in general?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Maybe you'll work backwards because right now I am the owner of a company that I've had for maybe 20 years.
Speaker: And the purpose of that company is to create inclusive, fair, diverse workplaces and a fair society.
Speaker: So my work is all over the place because it turns out that that's something that people want to do all over the place, which is to say, help us figure out.
Speaker: how we create more inclusive and equitable environments.
Speaker: And so I started, I got there only because I was a lawyer first.
Speaker: So I went to Harvard Law School and I practiced law.
Speaker: And somewhere in that
Speaker: time period, I started recognizing some of the barriers that people of color in particular were having, women and so forth.
Speaker: I also was a mother and started to notice that there was a serious maternal wall bias.
Speaker: And so little by little, I started moving into trying to do something about that first as a volunteer.
Speaker: And then I was asked to be the executive director of an organization in Boston because I stayed in Boston.
Speaker: And then I
Speaker: Worked for the Attorney General of Massachusetts as his Deputy Chief of Staff.
Speaker: And only recently did I come back home.
Speaker: So let's talk about home.
Speaker: Let's talk about home.
Speaker: Because home – The city.
Speaker: So I spent 32 years in Boston and then I came home to Baltimore.
Speaker: And Baltimore is the place where you and I got our start.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Foundation.
Speaker: So we love –
Speaker: Be more.
Speaker: Yes, we do.
Speaker: Yes, we do with all our hearts.
Speaker: And I grew up on Poplar Grove Street.
Speaker: Poplar Grove, West Baltimore.
Speaker: West Baltimore.
Speaker: You better not stay outside after nine.
Speaker: Or maybe after eight.
Speaker: Ask my pops.
Speaker: Dad knows.
Speaker: Your little brother.
Speaker: My little brother.
Speaker: He was one year younger than I was.
Speaker: And we played together all the time because I was a tomboy.
Speaker: So hold on.
Speaker: Did you know that?
Speaker: Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker: My dad is only one year younger than you?
Speaker: He's just one year younger than I am.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Guys, fun fact.
Speaker: This is history right now.
Speaker: Bigger Talks.
Speaker: I just found this out today because, you know, Brittany and myself are one year apart.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: And I was his...
Speaker: Little brother, big brother, big sister because I was an athlete.
Speaker: You can play ball.
Speaker: Basketball, right?
Speaker: I can play basketball.
Speaker: And I played in high school and I played in college and I played in law school until I tore my anterior cruciate ligament.
Speaker: Which we won't go into.
Speaker: However, I grew up with grandma and grandpa, my mother and father, awesome people, worked extremely hard.
Speaker: My father was ultimately a firefighter.
Speaker: 26 years.
Speaker: And three other jobs.
Speaker: And my mother, which you may not know, I think you may know, went to college, graduated from college, Morgan State University, and was a teacher.
Speaker: I didn't know that.
Speaker: A first grade teacher and then decided – I don't know if she decided or whether my father decided that she needed to come home and be a full-time mother.
Speaker: Oh, OK.
Speaker: G-dad.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, when I think about my mom, I think my mom could be me.
Speaker: She could be –
Speaker: in this podcast studio with you right now.
Speaker: Hey, sugar.
Speaker: Having been a lawyer.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: I miss you so much.
Speaker: Those quotes you put up, I love.
Speaker: You know she told me she has a trainer now, that she works out twice a week.
Speaker: I was like, Grandma, how old are you?
Speaker: Grandma's, like, 89?
Speaker: 87.
Speaker: 87.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So my mom could have been anything.
Speaker: She's sort of like the mayor.
Speaker: She has an enormous capacity for people.
Speaker: She's extroverted just like I am.
Speaker: And she's very smart and she has an enormous amount of emotional intelligence.
Speaker: She just happened to be born at the wrong time where I think there was very little opportunity and then you had to have support from your husband.
Speaker: And so she stayed home with us for a while, which was lovely.
Speaker: But it did mean that she didn't have a true career.
Speaker: And then she worked for a church.
Speaker: as a secretary, which was fine, but she could have done more.
Speaker: And so when I look at what I have achieved, I am very clear that what I have achieved is due to my parents' sacrifice and commitment.
Speaker: And it's the thing that fuels me to continue to do well.
Speaker: Um, which is to like make good, make good on the investment.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know how to invest in your life.
Speaker: I mean, what was your life growing up in, I mean, you had grandma and granddad, but what was your life like growing up in Baltimore, like in high school before you went to college?
Speaker: Did you face a lot of challenges?
Speaker: Were there a lot of, you know, setbacks?
Speaker: What did you go through?
Speaker: Well, you know, I said my mom was born in the wrong time.
Speaker: I feel like I was born in the right time.
Speaker: And it's actually really interesting.
Speaker: Did you know that this is the 50th year of Martin Luther King's death on April 4th this year?
Speaker: It'll be the 50th year.
Speaker: You got anything planned for that?
Speaker: I'm really thinking about what I want to do.
Speaker: And I just want to encourage everybody to do something to mark that sacrifice, because this man was assassinated for his views.
Speaker: And I was eight years old at the time.
Speaker: And I remember...
Speaker: for the first time seeing my father cry.
Speaker: And it was the day before my birthday.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, you know, little kids, you're this, it's like all about me.
Speaker: It's all about my birthday.
Speaker: And everybody was like down.
Speaker: And I knew of King obviously because of school and because of what was going on in the TV, but it was his death that really cemented, cemented, I think my identity as somebody who wanted to create equality and fairness and, you know,
Speaker: I say it was the right time because it was also a time where this country got scared.
Speaker: And so it started saying, what do we need to do for the black people?
Speaker: Because it was also that we had a riot or whatever we call it now, uprising or unrest.
Speaker: And I remember my dad putting a black...
Speaker: a handkerchief on the antenna of our car because that was to show that you were sympathetic with the people who were, you know, deciding, like really getting out there and protesting.
Speaker: But as a result, all sorts of doors opened.
Speaker: So I got to go to these interesting like math classes on Saturday.
Speaker: We got pools put in the backyards of, I mean, the back floors.
Speaker: fields of our schools.
Speaker: They opened up the district so you could go to any school you wanted to.
Speaker: You didn't have to just go into your neighborhood.
Speaker: And so as a result, I got to go to something called Roland Park.
Speaker: Roland Park.
Speaker: Junior High.
Speaker: That's a good school.
Speaker: You went to Roland Park.
Speaker: You were smart.
Speaker: I went to Mount Rush.
Speaker: That's out to the Eagles.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But Roland P ark was a good school.
Speaker: Let's just be clear.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: If you got to go to Roland Park, it's because you either lived near Roland Park or somebody knew that Roland Park was a great school to go to.
Speaker: It wasn't about being smart because it was a public school.
Speaker: It was like who couldn't get there?
Speaker: And so I got there.
Speaker: I took three buses.
Speaker: Jesus.
Speaker: You know how there's a saying that grass is always greener on the other side?
Speaker: It is actually
Speaker: greener.
Speaker: Well, I'm not even going to lie.
Speaker: How did you get to that part?
Speaker: Actually greener.
Speaker: Like I would get on the bus in my neighborhood and cross town.
Speaker: I mean, cross town.
Speaker: Like, you know, it took me like maybe 45 minutes to an hour and we would go in that place, Roland Park, Guilford, and then ultimately to Roland Park.
Speaker: And I'm just like, what is all this green?
Speaker: It's funny because that's like where grandma stays now.
Speaker: You got Park Heights, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's the Elameda, the intersection.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: So that was the east side.
Speaker: But Roland Park is more like – Well, I'm just saying the difference.
Speaker: Yes, the difference is huge.
Speaker: There's one street in – is it Northern Parkway, I think?
Speaker: Yes, Northern Parkway.
Speaker: In West Baltimore where before that street, it's the inner city, the hood, the struggle.
Speaker: Then just on the other side of that street, they call it Jewtown.
Speaker: It's very clean and classy and nice.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's a big difference.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's huge.
Speaker: And it's bizarre because there's a whole Orthodox Jewish population there.
Speaker: And they have not left the city, which I think is really extraordinary.
Speaker: But they have also created.
Speaker: This place and neighborhoods where it's a completely different experience.
Speaker: And this is true about Baltimore.
Speaker: This is true about a lot of cities where there are certain areas that are just pristine and beautiful and it's got great schools.
Speaker: And then, you know, take a bus around the corner down the street and it's a whole nother environment.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I got to go to Roland Park, and once you get to go to certain schools, you get to find out about other schools.
Speaker: So someone says, hey, well, you know, are you going to go to Western?
Speaker: And I'm like, what is that?
Speaker: And they're like, well, you can go there as a ninth grader if you take a particular test.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So was that the starting point where you knew things were different?
Speaker: Not only for your environment, but for you.
Speaker: Because you did go to these prestige schools.
Speaker: Do I get to ask you that question, too?
Speaker: When did you know things were different?
Speaker: Yeah, you can ask me whatever you want.
Speaker: Spirit talks, baby.
Speaker: Well, I'll tell you, Monty, you tell me yours.
Speaker: It's funny.
Speaker: Your brother.
Speaker: I started going to Roland Park, which meant that my friend base changed, as in it became a little brighter or should we say whiter.
Speaker: And so I would have these friends and they were cool and they would invite me to their house.
Speaker: And then I would like I would want to invite them to my house.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so at one point I was like, hey, I want to invite my friends.
Speaker: And my brother's like – your father's like, you're a hippie and you're embarrassing us with these white people.
Speaker: And you wear a backpack.
Speaker: And who wears a backpack?
Speaker: And so that's when I noticed I am weird.
Speaker: I'm weird too.
Speaker: You're weird too.
Speaker: Very weird.
Speaker: Tell me how weird you are.
Speaker: I just knew I was different from a young age.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: You were.
Speaker: Just so different.
Speaker: And I was so curious.
Speaker: My dad told me I'll never forget it.
Speaker: I probably was 10 years old.
Speaker: We were on 83 going to my grandmother's Sheila House.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I was like, Dad, what does the word persistent mean?
Speaker: He's like, son, you always been persistent.
Speaker: I didn't know the word.
Speaker: He's like persistent.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I just realized when I wanted something, I just went after it.
Speaker: I didn't think about the consequences or what I had to face.
Speaker: I want something.
Speaker: I'm going to get it.
Speaker: I'm not I'm not even thinking about what's not going to happen.
Speaker: No, I'm going to get that.
Speaker: So I think I told this story in a podcast a while ago.
Speaker: Olivia Michael was here when I was in junior college.
Speaker: It was a Howard Community College.
Speaker: I was playing basketball, partial scholarship.
Speaker: I was taking an accountant exam.
Speaker: And there was a white guy next to me, white kid.
Speaker: And my intuition was like, I looked on his paper, but my intuition was like, don't take his answers.
Speaker: And I'm like, but I don't know the answers to the test.
Speaker: So anyway, I didn't look on his paper.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I took the test.
Speaker: We got it back a week later.
Speaker: He had, if I'm not mistaken, a 64%
Speaker: I had like 82.
Speaker: So in that moment, my perception of who I was, which was more than an athlete, that, you know, black people are smart.
Speaker: Not saying I didn't think I was smart, but in the community, you know, faith comes from hearing.
Speaker: So you hear a lot that, oh, you know, you're whitewashed or you talk this way.
Speaker: And I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker: So I didn't conform to the reality of what the environment was saying.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And so it changed my perspective on myself that it really doesn't matter about race or color, but I don't have to
Speaker: I don't have to commit to that stereotype.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That we're just athletic beings or entertainers.
Speaker: We're educational.
Speaker: We are smart.
Speaker: So that was my turning point.
Speaker: And it was at a predominantly white school, Howard Community College, where I got two AA degrees.
Speaker: And the people loved me there.
Speaker: And I thrived in school.
Speaker: And it was beautiful.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That's an example that I remember when I went to Barnard.
Speaker: For first of all, when you decide to go out of Baltimore, there's a whole like, where are you going?
Speaker: Why are you leaving?
Speaker: And I understand that sometimes when you're in a community that you're a bright star in the community, they're kind of like, don't leave us.
Speaker: But for me, I was just like, I got to get out of here.
Speaker: It's too small.
Speaker: And I know it was always something bigger than Baltimore.
Speaker: It's too limited in the way people are thinking.
Speaker: It's too limited.
Speaker: So I went to New York, which was like, oh, the big city.
Speaker: I love New York.
Speaker: I was so excited.
Speaker: Mom was not excited.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: She was like –
Speaker: It was the time – you don't remember this.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: You all are all too young.
Speaker: It was this thing called Kojak and he was like a police officer.
Speaker: He had a bald head and it was – New York was really bad and my mother was like, don't take the subways.
Speaker: I'm like, mom, okay, but I don't know how I'm getting around.
Speaker: And she goes, put your money in your bosom.
Speaker: I'm like, I don't know if that's going to work.
Speaker: But –
Speaker: scary thing she's like i don't want you to go it's too dangerous and my father was all he was worried about is how much does it cost and i decided to go to barnard because i liked the lady who came to my school that's how basic i was i knew so little about how the world worked but i loved this woman who came to represent barnard and i was like oh i want to go to that school and
Speaker: I was ignorant and yet I had good grades.
Speaker: So I think people don't understand the difference between intelligence and exposure.
Speaker: They think that if you don't know certain words or you don't have a certain veneer or you don't talk a certain way, that that's about intelligence.
Speaker: Stop.
Speaker: It's not.
Speaker: There are really brilliant people who have less exposure.
Speaker: So they sometimes miss opportunities.
Speaker: I just got to be in the right place at the right time.
Speaker: And the lady and I said, I like your school.
Speaker: Can I go to your school?
Speaker: And she was like, well, you have to have, let me see your transcript.
Speaker: I'm like, can you show them a transcript?
Speaker: And she was like, I looks good.
Speaker: I'm like, so I can go.
Speaker: She goes, there's a process.
Speaker: I applied to one school.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: And I got in.
Speaker: And that woman forever told my parents, she was like, I will take care of her.
Speaker: I will make sure.
Speaker: And my mom was like, how is she going to pay for it?
Speaker: I got every amount of money I needed through work study or loans or Pell Grant except for, and by the way, talking about Pell Grants, right time, right place that they had Pell Grants.
Speaker: And then they were interested in finding the little black girls in the neighborhood, right?
Speaker: And then she was like, oh, I'll get her a job.
Speaker: And I got all the money except for $1,000.
Speaker: And my dad was like, I think we can handle that.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: So one of the things that I knew about leaving is that I was going to go do some things.
Speaker: So I went for the very first time on a plane.
Speaker: The very first time I was on a plane was like 20 years old.
Speaker: And my very first ride was to Cambridge, England.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Like a long ride for your first ride.
Speaker: So exposure was part of your life.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And I remember people in my neighborhood going, I was working three jobs to get enough money to go on this trip to Cambridge that summer.
Speaker: And people were like, why do you want to go there?
Speaker: Yeah, what made you want to go there of all places?
Speaker: Anywhere, anywhere, right?
Speaker: To see the world.
Speaker: Anywhere, you know?
Speaker: And so you would read like, okay, you'd say, oh, that, go to Cambridge.
Speaker: But see, you've got to go to the places where the advertisements are.
Speaker: You know, you don't even know that those are opportunities.
Speaker: So I was like, oh, Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Speaker: I'm going to go take Tudor music and whatever.
Speaker: Tudor history and classical music.
Speaker: Why not?
Speaker: And then I was a newspaper girl.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: there to make enough money and then I saved all my money and I got a train ticket to Paris because I'm like I'm not coming this close to Paris I'm not going to Paris so I went to Paris for four days with a bottle of water
Speaker: You know what that experience is like.
Speaker: Come on, you go.
Speaker: It can get rough on the financial side of exploration.
Speaker: I took a risk, came to LA seven years ago, $1,000 in my name, new one person.
Speaker: But you know what it is I think we have that's a part of us is our drive and our will.
Speaker: I'm so willing.
Speaker: You put it in front of me, I'm going to get it.
Speaker: I'm so curious.
Speaker: And I think that's what lead us to these podcasts, speaking to people, helping people and graduating from Harvard and being on TV.
Speaker: I think if I guess because we had hope without having a lot of hope around.
Speaker: But I think for me, I didn't even think about hope being positive that this is what I want.
Speaker: This is what I didn't even think about these things.
Speaker: I just knew what I wanted at an early age.
Speaker: I think that's what I was blessed with.
Speaker: You know what I always used to say about you?
Speaker: I used to say two things.
Speaker: One is, this kid is so earnest.
Speaker: Like, what the heck?
Speaker: And then I was like, he's impervious to his surroundings.
Speaker: Which is to say that no matter what was happening around you, you were still like...
Speaker: And like you had so much light and you had so much drive.
Speaker: And I still don't know what is nurture and what is nature.
Speaker: Like what do we get born with versus what about the opportunities?
Speaker: You know, we're – Baltimore is famous for The Wire and a lot of people don't like talking about The Wire show with Baltimore.
Speaker: But to me, that show was all about is it nurture or is it nature?
Speaker: And how would you be if you were in this situation?
Speaker: And it doesn't matter if you're in the hood, if you're in city hall, if you're on the docks or in school.
Speaker: What is the formula for how some people seem to survive and thrive and other people don't and go to jail?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And all sorts of other things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think, I mean, for you, you were outlet for me just to have a voice outside of the city that I couldn't have a conversation with my dad or my mom.
Speaker: It wasn't.
Speaker: And I felt like you was the parent I needed emotionally at times.
Speaker: I remember like yesterday, um,
Speaker: When I was 25, that was a tough, tough year in my life.
Speaker: Like I was struggling a lot in LA.
Speaker: I don't know if you remember the dinner.
Speaker: We went somewhere in Century City, maybe Houston.
Speaker: We went somewhere.
Speaker: We had a great food.
Speaker: You paid.
Speaker: I was so happy.
Speaker: I didn't have no money.
Speaker: And I talked about, because, you know, if you don't know, the topic of this podcast is for today for us.
Speaker: It's the dichotomy of failure and success.
Speaker: And I asked you about, you know,
Speaker: You went to school, you graduated, you had a child, you was married, but then your marriage didn't go through.
Speaker: And I asked you, I was like, auntie, how do you deal with challenges?
Speaker: Like, how do you, then you started going in.
Speaker: He's like, well, me and Mike, you know, at the time, your husband went bankrupt at one time.
Speaker: And she said, nephew, in life, people make their biggest problem their biggest priority.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I was like, wow, that sounds really smart.
Speaker: I don't remember that.
Speaker: And she and you was like, it's like, I just keep going.
Speaker: I just keep going.
Speaker: I don't look at it.
Speaker: I just move forward.
Speaker: And I was just like, and it like shifted something.
Speaker: I mean, I was I don't even think I had a job at the time.
Speaker: I was looking for work.
Speaker: It was a tough year.
Speaker: And I was like, wow.
Speaker: She was like, nephew, you're going to be all right.
Speaker: You can be OK.
Speaker: Trust me.
Speaker: And I'm like, damn, what?
Speaker: And me in my mind, so ignorant to life.
Speaker: I'm positive.
Speaker: I'm nice.
Speaker: I did good in school.
Speaker: I'm like, what is happening to me?
Speaker: Why am I struggling?
Speaker: And you came right in the moment where I needed it.
Speaker: And so I want to ask you the question, like, how did you deal with those challenges of being in that committed relationship for so long?
Speaker: And then it happened.
Speaker: And then you had to find life again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, what's really interesting always, I don't know if I knew it then as well as I know it now, but it's all about you and your presence and your self-awareness.
Speaker: Now, if you have a partner, that's awesome.
Speaker: But that's supposed to be just an additional aspect of you.
Speaker: It's not supposed to be you.
Speaker: And a lot of people make their partnership everything.
Speaker: But, you know, if you're in a partnership, there's at least three entities.
Speaker: There's you, there's the partner, and then there's the partnership, right?
Speaker: These are three different entities, and each one of them needs attention.
Speaker: And I think that we try to – if we – if you –
Speaker: Make somebody else your life.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You're giving up way too much control.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Can you say that again?
Speaker: If you make somebody else your life, you're giving up way too much because that's not their job.
Speaker: It's not their job to make sure that your life is right.
Speaker: That's your job.
Speaker: I mean, first of all, they just don't possibly know you as well as you could know yourself.
Speaker: So having said that, I absolutely loved, loved, loved my husband.
Speaker: And I loved our marriage.
Speaker: I loved our family.
Speaker: I thought, we're having a good time.
Speaker: Now, I also knew that we were having a really good time.
Speaker: I'm like, it was probably just a matter of time before there's a bump.
Speaker: Right, because who's going to live a life in which there are no bumps, right?
Speaker: You don't need to anticipate it, but you don't need to think that somehow you're going to be the one group that does not have a life bump.
Speaker: So when my husband came to me, like after 22 years or 23 years, and he was like, I need to talk to you.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, fine.
Speaker: And so Tony goes, I'm gay.
Speaker: I'm like, I don't even want to tell you that I am not lying.
Speaker: The first word out of my mouth was bummer.
Speaker: I'm just like, bummer.
Speaker: Because you're like, you're thinking to yourself, whoa, here's a life change.
Speaker: I'm just getting ready to swing.
Speaker: Like, some things happen to you, and you're like, whatever.
Speaker: Other things are happening, like, right in the moment.
Speaker: You're like, oh, we getting ready to swing.
Speaker: Like, this is, this is, life is just getting ready to do a thing right now.
Speaker: A thing right now.
Speaker: And so you're kind of like, hold on, it's about to get bumpy.
Speaker: And I just was sort of like, what?
Speaker: And he was like, yeah, I've been trying to talk to you and I need to talk to you about it.
Speaker: I don't know what I want to – I said, what does it mean?
Speaker: He goes, I don't even know what it means.
Speaker: I just got to talk to you about it.
Speaker: And so then you really like what is love?
Speaker: Like what is love, right?
Speaker: Because I'll make my living –
Speaker: Talking to people about keeping their hearts open and having their authentic selves and people having space to become who they are in all the ways that they're biased and discrimination and so forth.
Speaker: And I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like,
Speaker: I believe in evolution.
Speaker: I just didn't want it to be in my house.
Speaker: Like, I believe you're supposed to be self-evolved, but please stop evolving right now, right?
Speaker: Because he was sort of like, I guess it's a classic case of someone who fell in love with someone who was not his gender preference and he or his gender orientation.
Speaker: So he thought though that because he had fallen in love with me, that that means he was straight.
Speaker: So did I. Hold on.
Speaker: Hold on.
Speaker: So did I. Hold on.
Speaker: Hold up.
Speaker: Say that again.
Speaker: Apparently, people can fall in love with people and it's not exactly their orientation, right?
Speaker: So that's new.
Speaker: That was something I did not know.
Speaker: And he said to me something that I will always remember.
Speaker: He goes, I love you.
Speaker: I love our life.
Speaker: But I love myself more.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: How are you going to argue with that?
Speaker: I mean, that's so authentic.
Speaker: You can't argue with that.
Speaker: But that goes back to what you said before.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: There's three parts of the relationship.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then you can't love someone more than you love yourself or you can't make the relationship your life.
Speaker: You can't.
Speaker: Or the person.
Speaker: And who knew that love is not enough?
Speaker: apparently you're like, oh, shoot.
Speaker: So we can actually still love each other.
Speaker: And I don't think people understand this.
Speaker: You can love somebody and not need to be with them or you should decide not to be with them because love is not enough to actually make a relationship thrive, right?
Speaker: Or an individual within the relationship thrive.
Speaker: Is there revelations happening right now as we speak?
Speaker: Mike, do you have something to say?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So powerful.
Speaker: So you don't actually have to be with someone, you said, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: To be in love with them?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: You know, the whole in love thing is kind of a weird case.
Speaker: Yeah, because I was getting a lot of that slack on the show.
Speaker: You don't know.
Speaker: You sure you're in love?
Speaker: I was like, I know what I experienced.
Speaker: Don't tell me what I know.
Speaker: There's something called infatuation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And apparently there's all these people studying the chemicals that happen when you first meet someone, and they actually...
Speaker: cause you not to be rational.
Speaker: So they just, you can just see what you see in that person and you're attracted in that, but it's not going to last forever.
Speaker: And so one of the things I really loved about my relationship with my ex-husband is that we were friends and we were friends for us actually.
Speaker: So I really appreciated how you were approaching Rachel because I knew that you were a person of authenticity and
Speaker: I was also incredibly like jumping around and clapping when you said you loved her because I knew that you were also letting yourself be in a space that you didn't know.
Speaker: I mean, on TV.
Speaker: I trust it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You went to lean.
Speaker: You went to lean.
Speaker: And so I love that.
Speaker: But the way I got through this experience was to just be like, it was hard.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So let's just be clear about that.
Speaker: I talk about that at heart totally.
Speaker: When you're feeling something, you just embrace the true feeling of that moment and it's okay.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So it was hard.
Speaker: It was super hard.
Speaker: And also because he wasn't sure what he wanted to do and then we – whatever.
Speaker: There was a lot of that.
Speaker: But here's one of the things that held me through my faith.
Speaker: Is the thing that anchors me.
Speaker: It's the thing that I have used to make every decision in my life from, you know, as a young adult, which is to say that I'm going to be okay because I'm connected to the source.
Speaker: It may not be perfect and pretty, but fundamentally, I am fine.
Speaker: And even though I'm about to lose my life as I know it, I ultimately would be fine.
Speaker: In fact, I remember saying out loud to God, I was like, okay, so...
Speaker: This is your area.
Speaker: This is going to be on you because I have no idea what to do in this situation.
Speaker: You know, sometimes I feel like people are putting too much on God.
Speaker: They want God to do this.
Speaker: They want God to go get the job.
Speaker: They want God to take care of this or that.
Speaker: And, you know, they're not doing self-responsibility.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: On this one, I was like, I feel fairly certain this is your area.
Speaker: This is your territory because I have no idea how one manages this.
Speaker: I mean, we had this, like, everybody thought we were, like, the best couple.
Speaker: And, you know, we enjoyed each other so much in every way.
Speaker: Should I just say that discreetly?
Speaker: And I just said, you know, I'm going to give over.
Speaker: I'm not.
Speaker: Here's the other thing that changed for me.
Speaker: And I don't know whether your listeners can relate to this.
Speaker: But if you were brought up in Baltimore by the people that we were brought up with, everything's about stoicism.
Speaker: Everybody's stoic.
Speaker: Everybody's like, chin up.
Speaker: Chin up.
Speaker: Chin up.
Speaker: Be tough.
Speaker: Keep going.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What are you doing?
Speaker: Crying.
Speaker: Why are you crying?
Speaker: Not cry.
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: But not dance.
Speaker: I dance a lot now.
Speaker: Thank you, L.A.
Speaker: What is that?
Speaker: You know, get yourself together.
Speaker: There's a lot of that.
Speaker: There's a lot of denial of emotions in order to deal with difficult situations.
Speaker: OK, that's one way to do it.
Speaker: In this situation, it was clear to me, you go stoic, you're going to lose yourself.
Speaker: Mm hmm.
Speaker: You better get down on that floor and weep.
Speaker: So say that again to people listening.
Speaker: So if you're in any danger environment or city or just in anything that's tough, when you're feeling something, just feel it.
Speaker: Feel it.
Speaker: Don't fight it.
Speaker: Don't pretend.
Speaker: Don't resist it because it will get the best of you.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It can be something simple as, okay, we're in L.A.
Speaker: I'm in traffic.
Speaker: You're in traffic.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Don't try to fight traffic, beat the horn.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Just deal with the traffic.
Speaker: Don't get aggressive with reality like that.
Speaker: You're like, what is real?
Speaker: What is real?
Speaker: I got to deal with what's real.
Speaker: And, you know, it's a balance, right?
Speaker: Because you have a bunch of people who are into deep victimization and it's all sad all the time and it's everyone's fault, right?
Speaker: And then you have people who are over...
Speaker: claiming their ability to handle a situation.
Speaker: So they're in denial of emotions until a little bit later, those emotions come back and bite them, or they act in a way that makes no sense.
Speaker: And it's because something that has happened is stirring up old emotions that were never processed.
Speaker: So you get in these relationships, you start screaming at people and the person's like, you're way over the top and you're not screaming at them or the situation you're screaming at a cumulative situation.
Speaker: That pain body, that emotion that erupted from childhood.
Speaker: Right, that you never took care of.
Speaker: So what do you think in situations like that?
Speaker: I think what happens when people are in those type of tough situations and things happen like what happened to you and it's so much so fast, they don't even know how to be in that emotion because maybe it's a new emotion or they don't even know how to feel those feelings.
Speaker: Is there like a way that they can get into those emotions or what do you do?
Speaker: Because I feel like if something happens like that to me, it's just run.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, flight.
Speaker: I'm out.
Speaker: I'm not going to stay.
Speaker: I'm not standing.
Speaker: I'm not standing in emotions.
Speaker: I'm not standing in relationship.
Speaker: I'm not standing.
Speaker: I'm running, running, running.
Speaker: I'm gonna go smoke.
Speaker: I'm gonna drink.
Speaker: I'm gonna go have sex.
Speaker: I'm gonna do whatever to numb that pain.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Because I don't even know what that is.
Speaker: That is just too foreign to me.
Speaker: And I think that's what I did my whole life in relationships.
Speaker: Like you trying to give me love.
Speaker: Get out of here.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Because it was so foreign.
Speaker: I didn't understand.
Speaker: And it was scary.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So I think that's another thing that some people just don't even know how we come from.
Speaker: Scared.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Know how to sit in those emotions.
Speaker: Because how do you just you do?
Speaker: Well, people think and this is what I believe.
Speaker: And I mean, hey, I haven't been through the very first worst thing in the world.
Speaker: But I think that people believe that if they give space for emotion, the emotions will take them out.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's why you run.
Speaker: You run because you don't think you're going to be able to deal with the impact of the emotion.
Speaker: You're trying to save yourself.
Speaker: And by saving yourself, you are making yourself more vulnerable.
Speaker: So the thing is, is that I, and I'm not saying this is a formula.
Speaker: I'm saying this is what I did.
Speaker: Why is I set a goal?
Speaker: My goal was to emerge from the trauma whole and full of joy.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I felt fairly certain that I would not be whole and joyful if I pretended that I was not devastated, which is sort of how I had learned to deal with any difficult situation.
Speaker: I'm like, go in and believe that you are going to be okay.
Speaker: Like allow yourself to feel the feelings and believe that you will survive the feelings.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I think a lot of people think I'm not going to survive this.
Speaker: So I'm going to numb out or I'm going to push back or I'm going to run.
Speaker: And one of the things that I knew is I'd seen women who were so bitter.
Speaker: and so angry and so snappy.
Speaker: And I was like, I don't want to be that.
Speaker: I want to be a person at the end of this.
Speaker: And I said to God, I'll go wherever you take me.
Speaker: If you promise me at the end of it, I will be whole, not torn or half or whatever.
Speaker: So consequently, what that meant was like, I would get into a shower, you know, just start weeping.
Speaker: And then like maybe month two, I was just like, okay, you know what?
Speaker: I'm tired of crying.
Speaker: How long am I going to be crying?
Speaker: How long is a shower going to result in weeping?
Speaker: I'm like, when can I come out?
Speaker: And, you know, I just spent time just feeling my feelings.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And somewhere in there, you start to discover your own strength.
Speaker: Your power.
Speaker: That's what I did on the show.
Speaker: I remember the conversation to myself.
Speaker: I was like, E, you got to do it.
Speaker: It's bigger than you.
Speaker: And I couldn't say I love you without just having a pause.
Speaker: I had to say words after that.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: And I remember like yesterday was one in the morning.
Speaker: I'm talking to Louie, the producer.
Speaker: And I'm like, Louie, what is going on with my life?
Speaker: I'm in Spain in a peacoat and a suit.
Speaker: About to tell a girl I love her.
Speaker: What?
Speaker: He said, yeah, my man, it's miracle season.
Speaker: You making your way.
Speaker: And I remember sitting down.
Speaker: And before all this, the therapist was like, just say it and don't.
Speaker: Trust me.
Speaker: Women, if they want to ask a question, they will.
Speaker: You don't have to explain what it means.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I don't think I have to tell Rachel what love means and I care about you.
Speaker: You don't need that.
Speaker: I sat down, looked her in the eyes and said, I love you.
Speaker: And I remember the pause.
Speaker: It was like at least 12 seconds.
Speaker: And literally something just left my spirit.
Speaker: I was like,
Speaker: Yeah, I did it.
Speaker: But I had this preconception that if I was in that, something would be different.
Speaker: Because I think sometimes we think, oh, if I go with this emotion and this feeling and my life is going to be over.
Speaker: It's like, no, it's actually undone.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like this actually was a blessing because now I can talk about this and not feel like, oh, this is too much.
Speaker: It's like, hey, I'm free as can be, baby.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: You served your purpose.
Speaker: I served mine.
Speaker: I got my miracle.
Speaker: I fell in love.
Speaker: And to your point, I think when I look at your life, I think that's what compelled you to be who you are today was that situation.
Speaker: That's the...
Speaker: That's the miracle.
Speaker: You had to go through this rough patch that nobody wants to go through.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, what?
Speaker: 22 years.
Speaker: I got a son.
Speaker: I'm a successful lawyer.
Speaker: And let's not get it twisted.
Speaker: Uncle Mike went to John Hopkins undergrad and went to Harvard Medical School.
Speaker: He was awesome.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He still is.
Speaker: He's alive.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love him.
Speaker: Tell him I said hi.
Speaker: His food is great.
Speaker: And he can swim.
Speaker: He was awesome.
Speaker: He's a good guy.
Speaker: He's a good guy.
Speaker: So it wasn't like you were the breadwinner.
Speaker: He wasn't like y'all was Imano Imano.
Speaker: Y'all was bringing it in.
Speaker: Y'all was the couple.
Speaker: Y'all was in Newton, Massachusetts, one of the safest cities in America.
Speaker: I mean, you would leave your door unlocked.
Speaker: I'm like, auntie.
Speaker: She's like, it's fine.
Speaker: It's coming to the house.
Speaker: But I think that part of your relationship in your life is what compelled you to be the woman that you are today.
Speaker: To help young women or just young men listening and say, look,
Speaker: There is a way.
Speaker: There's an out.
Speaker: But you don't have to take the easy route.
Speaker: And the easy route is to numb your feelings, is to avoid the pain, is to not speak about what's going on on the inside, is to forget that there was love for this person.
Speaker: That shouldn't change because of the situation.
Speaker: It's all about, and I think what you had was unconditional love.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I think sometimes in a relationship, people don't love one.
Speaker: They love all conditions and they don't love unconditionally.
Speaker: I will also, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker: And I also would say that, you know, in a relationship, it's almost like a bank account.
Speaker: And my ex, he had a lot of deposits in his account.
Speaker: He was a great husband.
Speaker: He was a great father.
Speaker: He was a great friend.
Speaker: So when he made that major withdrawal...
Speaker: He still had like a lot of stuff in his bank account.
Speaker: So sometimes when relationships go bad and ugly, it's because there's been some withdrawals being made on the regular and there have not been deposits.
Speaker: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker: So people are staying in things way too long and they don't notice that the withdrawals are actually withdrawing them and they are running on a certain kind of empty –
Speaker: And then they get really resentful and angry.
Speaker: And luckily, I wasn't in that position.
Speaker: So sometimes I think, you know, I kind of had it easy.
Speaker: A lot of people like, no, you didn't.
Speaker: I'm like, yes, but I feel like, you know, because we had a loving relationship, I was a, but a point, we talk about this, the ability to let go.
Speaker: Let go.
Speaker: Let go, man.
Speaker: Let go.
Speaker: When you let go, you grow.
Speaker: When you hold on, you stay down.
Speaker: You can't move.
Speaker: It's so true.
Speaker: But it's like, how do you know?
Speaker: Because there are some things that you... Goals that you get because you held on, right?
Speaker: And you just waited for the thing to pass and you were still okay.
Speaker: And then other things, you're just like... You're holding on and you're killing yourself and you don't know to let go.
Speaker: So it's not...
Speaker: It's not easy, but I think what people have to understand is an intangible concept that you have to adapt, right?
Speaker: For me, I came home from the show.
Speaker: Michael's here.
Speaker: I had another friend.
Speaker: And he said, you shouldn't work.
Speaker: I didn't work for myself.
Speaker: I'm going to pay my rent.
Speaker: I'm going to pay my bills.
Speaker: I had a spiritual advisor.
Speaker: He said, you just got to sit down, relax.
Speaker: You went through a whole...
Speaker: major transformation.
Speaker: You got to get out of your own way.
Speaker: So I'm like, you know me, I'm working for me.
Speaker: This me, this E, I got to get it done.
Speaker: I'm driven and willing.
Speaker: And the thing I had to adapt was faith.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I had to let go and say, you know what?
Speaker: You got me.
Speaker: Rem was almost due at the end of the month.
Speaker: I'm like, I'll pay my bills.
Speaker: I get a call.
Speaker: Man might get a call.
Speaker: Commercial.
Speaker: Commercial.
Speaker: Paid my rent plus some.
Speaker: But if I didn't have that faith and I would have relapsed and went back to what I was doing before, that blessing probably wouldn't even came.
Speaker: Right, you probably couldn't have taken the commercial.
Speaker: And then weeks into the next month, I get another book and speaking engagement.
Speaker: Way more money.
Speaker: First time getting paid, I cried.
Speaker: But if I didn't adapt that intangible concept of having faith that, you know what, I have to do this with Uncle Mike did.
Speaker: I love you, but I love myself more.
Speaker: That was faith.
Speaker: I mean, that's so true because the thing that always kept me kind of grounded was, man, my life is difficult, but his life has got to be harder.
Speaker: You know, that's a huge thing to change like your identity and your friend base and, you know, just be in a space that you feel uncomfortable in and you know, you're disappointing a whole bunch of people.
Speaker: A lot of people were not as loving toward him, you know?
Speaker: So to go out and like to, to be that level, that level of authentic, demanding that in your life is,
Speaker: It's not always easy.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: This was beautiful.
Speaker: But before we wrap, I just have a few questions.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like what is my website and where can you follow me?
Speaker: I just want to say, what is your greatest joy and what is your greatest hope for the world?
Speaker: Oh my gosh, that's so hard.
Speaker: You know what came to mind?
Speaker: Trey.
Speaker: Trey is my son.
Speaker: He's 30.
Speaker: He's my greatest joy.
Speaker: In many respects, just I adore him as a person.
Speaker: But if I were to not be talking about a person or a thing, my greatest joy is that I get to go out almost every day and share my knowledge and
Speaker: about all of these issues around culture and innovation and opportunity and fairness and people respond.
Speaker: That's joyful.
Speaker: When you have something that you do and it makes life better for someone else, it's really a great thing.
Speaker: So that's my biggest joy.
Speaker: And what was the second one?
Speaker: What's your greatest?
Speaker: Like, what is your hope for America, for the world that you want people to get to at least understand?
Speaker: Or what would that be?
Speaker: Well, I would say that my greatest hope is that we realize that we're all one, that we're all connected, that we're not going to move forward unless all of us can move forward.
Speaker: And I think people are busy dividing themselves, othering people, judging folks, folks.
Speaker: Finding ways to try to make themselves better than other people.
Speaker: And I'm thinking to myself, do you not understand we're all the same?
Speaker: All the same.
Speaker: We're the same race.
Speaker: It's a human race.
Speaker: We are interdependent.
Speaker: Universal human.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And yes, we have differences and no, we don't need to ignore them, but we can't allow them to sever what is true about all of us.
Speaker: And that is like, we're one consciousness, we're one group.
Speaker: And like, if we don't pay attention to each other, it's hard to imagine how we can move forward as a society.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One for all, all for one.
Speaker: This was fun.
Speaker: But I need the handles.
Speaker: You have to follow my Aunt Renee, please.
Speaker: She's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, and I've been kind of lax on the whole thing.
Speaker: You know I'm an old person, and I didn't know that social media was all that.
Speaker: So I'm like, I'm at Renee Myers.
Speaker: Do they know how to spell my name?
Speaker: It's a weird thing.
Speaker: V-E-R-N-A.
Speaker: V-E-R-N-A and then M-Y-E-R-S.
Speaker: So on Twitter, I'm at Renee Myers.
Speaker: I've learned to say IG.
Speaker: I'm at Renee Myers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: On Facebook, I'm Brene Myers speaker.
Speaker: You have a TED talk that you did a few years ago.
Speaker: I have a TED talk.
Speaker: If you just put my name up there, it's like how to counter biases, walk boldly toward them.
Speaker: So if you just put my name in the TED website.
Speaker: And you have a few books out.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I have two books.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: I'm writing a third book.
Speaker: Hey.
Speaker: So you can go to my website, verneemeyers.com, verneemeyers.com.
Speaker: All you have to know is V-E-R-N-A.
Speaker: Hey.
Speaker: M-Y-E-R-S.
Speaker: That's all you have to know.
Speaker: And then you can find me on Twitter and IG and on my website.
Speaker: There it is.
Speaker: Follow her.
Speaker: She's amazing.
Speaker: No, you're amazing, nephew.
Speaker: We're amazing together.
Speaker: Bigger Talks.
Speaker: Thank you guys for tuning in, listening, just supporting this podcast.
Speaker: The more the better.
Speaker: Rate, review, subscribe.
Speaker: What lives a screenshot.
Speaker: Let me know that you're listening and you're joining in.
Speaker: But yeah, Bigger Talks.
Speaker: What's the word?
Speaker: Dichotomy of failure and success.
Speaker: Did I get it that right, Tom?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: The dichotomy of failure and success.
Speaker: Damn.
Speaker: Failure and success.
Speaker: Be your best.
Speaker: Renee Myers.
Speaker: That's my end.
Speaker: We did it.
Speaker: Bigger Talks.
Speaker: We out.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Love.
Speaker: One.
Speaker: We done.
Speaker: Peace.
Speaker: Thanks for listening to Bigger Talks with Eric Bigger.
Speaker: Check out new episodes every Wednesday exclusively on Apple Podcasts, the new Podcast One app, or download the show at podcastone.com.
Speaker: Trending on Podcast One.
Speaker: I'm obviously not a parent, but thinking from the outside.
Speaker: You are Tucker Doodle Dog.
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: That's true, but I don't have to have tough conversations with Tucker.
Speaker: Don't miss Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow every Tuesday and Thursday on Podcast One.
Speaker: If you're a fan of Off the Vine, you may also like other shows like Lady Gang, Heather Dubrow's World, and Shenanigans with Sheena Shea.
Speaker: All of these shows and more can be found exclusively on Apple Podcasts, PodcastOne.com, and the new Podcast One app.
Speaker: Southern California is home to millions of drivers, so the open road is rarely open.
Speaker: And unfortunately, as we all know, a lot of drivers aren't always focused on navigating the street in front of them.
Speaker: So Toyota is doing its part to help make driving safer.
Speaker: Toyota Safety Sense is a no-cost suite of safety features designed to be a kind of safety co-pilot, and it comes standard on most of their models.
Speaker: Find out what Toyota Safety Sense is all about.
Speaker: Visit buyatoyota.com.
Speaker: Your Southern California Toyota dealers make it easy.
Speaker: Toyota, let's go places.
Speaker: Closer to the border.
Speaker: I'm Ed Donoghue with an AP News Minute.
Speaker: Thousands of migrants from Honduras have reached southern Mexico.
Speaker: People are sleeping in the streets.
Speaker: They have had to deal with severe heat on their journey.
Speaker: It's not stopping people like Luis Porto.
Speaker: We're going to fight.
Speaker: We're going to keep on going.
Speaker: We're not going to stop.
Speaker: President Trump wants to stop them.
Speaker: I think some bad people started that caravan.
Speaker: More importantly, or maybe almost as importantly, you have some very, very bad people in the caravan.
Speaker: You have some very tough criminal elements within the caravan.
Speaker: And the president talked about bringing, possibly bringing the military to the border.
Speaker: Former NFL wide receiver Ray Carruth has been released from prison in North Carolina.
Speaker: He served 18 years for conspiring to murder the mother of his unborn child.
Speaker: The child was delivered by emergency cesarean section, but suffers from permanent brain damage and cerebral palsy.
Speaker: I'm Ed Donoghue.
