Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Returning to Reckless Abandon w/ EJ Crocker
36 Plays1 day ago
Content warning: there is mention of SA and death of a grandparent in this episode.
EJ Crocker grew up loving sounds, making noise, singing, and has been finding her way to music ever since. From childlike wonder through honing a craft and making a living with her music.
We talk about how being a "professional" can take the joy away from our art, and EJ is navigating that world beautifully and returning to childlike wonder and reckless abandon with her music. She has learned to rely on the people who inspire her and relish the small connections that keep her close to the music and to herself. I hope you enjoy this precious, vulnerable conversation that is graced with birdsong from EJ's rooftop.
EJ is a guitar teacher and teaches private students of all ages out of her home studio and at Ted Brown Music. Give her a listen at ejcrockermusic.com! Around Tacoma, keep an ear open for her bands Threocracy (a jazz organ trio) and Sweet Marilyn (an indie rock outfit).
References:
Andrea Gibson: "I Sing the Body Electric; Especially When My Power Is Out"
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Host Identity
00:00:38
Lore Alexander
Hello!
00:00:39
EJ
Thank
00:00:40
Lore Alexander
Welcome back to The Ugly Podcast. It's me, your host, Lore Alexander. i use they, them pronouns. And I'm excited to have a great guest for you all today. For anybody who's new to the podcast, um I'm just your white, non-binary, ah curly-headed weirdo with... um Today I've got my square glasses on.
00:01:03
Lore Alexander
um Got a green shirt on that says, Art is vital for survival. Shout out to Alyssa, who... was on this podcast previously. And I think actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I swear I wore this shirt the last time I recorded Maybe it's just my uniform for the podcast now. I don't know.
Guest Introduction and Identity
00:01:19
Lore Alexander
um
00:01:19
EJ
Thank you.
00:01:20
Lore Alexander
As I said, my guest today is and musician, educator, and a compost heap of ideas fueled by a deep interest in the more than human world. You might see her on stage with bands or solo projects or in teaching them in their teaching studio, but it's just as likely to catch them among the unruly bottles of fermentation projects in the middle of a landlord unsanctioned lawn massacre, meadow planting project, or at Owen Beach ah trying her hardest to breathe like a seal.
00:01:51
Lore Alexander
Welcome. Would you please and
00:01:54
EJ
Thank you!
00:01:56
Lore Alexander
you please introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and a brief visual description.
00:02:01
EJ
Thank you so much, Laura. um It's so good to meet you here today. um And yeah, my name is E.J. Crocker. I use she, her, they, them pronouns.
00:02:12
EJ
and I'm a white non-binary trans femme at this point sitting on top of my roof um because my house is a little spicy today.
00:02:24
EJ
and um yeah, it's a beautiful day out here. I'm wearing a green hat with a red flower and my favorite shirt, which is like a kind of like tie-dyed clouds.
00:02:35
EJ
and
Breathing Techniques and Podcast Origins
00:02:36
EJ
Yeah, and I'm just glad to be here. Thank you for the brilliant introduction. Okay.
00:02:41
Lore Alexander
Of course, I am curious what, how does one breathe like a so seal? Do you have to like close your nostrils like they do? Ooh.
00:02:49
EJ
I'm trying, I'm trying to figure it out. If anybody has answers, I feel like I've been getting a lot of inspiration recently from, um, there's a book by Alexis Pauline Gumbs called Undrowned.
00:03:03
EJ
Um, and it's, it, the tagline, the byline is like lessons on black feminism from marine mammals. Um, and there's this chapter on breath.
00:03:09
Lore Alexander
o
00:03:11
EJ
That's just like, Oh, as somebody who has like a few different breathing practices and sitting meditation, um, And I don't know when I'm running and um it's it's just such a different approach to, I don't know, like thinking about breathing and storing and breathing and duration.
00:03:29
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:03:30
EJ
um And I'm just a little baby. I can't hold my head underwater for much more than like 30 seconds when it's cold. So I think that's mostly aspirational.
00:03:39
Lore Alexander
Yeah, absolutely. I love it.
00:03:40
EJ
ah
Creative Journey and Challenges
00:03:41
Lore Alexander
ah love it. um Thank you so much for agreeing to come on today. um We met ah through one of your bandmates, Jade Monroe, who I had on this podcast a couple months ago.
00:03:55
Lore Alexander
um And you we just got to chatting after one of your shows, um and you agreed to come hang out for a bit.
00:04:03
EJ
Super cool. It sounds like you talk about my favorite things, which is which is great. And I'm a yapper. So...
00:04:09
Lore Alexander
Perfect. we We love a yapper because, okay, funny and like I have this podcast, right?
00:04:10
EJ
ah
00:04:14
Lore Alexander
But like if you're hanging out with me on a normal day, like I'm not very talkative.
00:04:20
EJ
Feel that.
00:04:21
Lore Alexander
Like I don't.
00:04:21
EJ
Feel that.
00:04:23
Lore Alexander
So it is. I'm glad you're yapper. Yeah.
00:04:27
EJ
This spring bubbles forth under exceedingly specific conditions.
00:04:27
Lore Alexander
um
00:04:30
Lore Alexander
Yes, it does. I remember the the first time when I first started this podcast and I was still kind of I was still in my straight married era.
00:04:30
EJ
Whoa!
00:04:32
EJ
it's
00:04:42
Lore Alexander
So I was still amongst I was still amongst all of my like ah straight friends who I've kind of like disconnected with since the divorce and whatnot. But when I first started the podcast, one of the guys that I was friends with was just like,
00:04:55
Lore Alexander
Like, you don't talk. Like, how are you going to have a podcast when you don't talk? And I'm just like, and this is, you know, it's actually pretty clear why I'm not friends with those people anymore.
00:05:01
EJ
Good.
00:05:07
Lore Alexander
But...
00:05:10
Lore Alexander
um clearly I thrive here this is my happy place so um let's i' would love to just dive in um I want to know about you and your relationship to your
Professional Validation vs. Artistic Expression
00:05:21
Lore Alexander
creativity and I always like to pose this as kind of a silly question of if your relationship to creativity had a story arc or a relationship trope what would it be
00:05:32
EJ
Oh, love that. I love that idea of a relationship trip with that. I think I definitely have a story arc. um And I remember,
00:05:42
EJ
it's so good to be on a podcast talking about like, you know, ugly art um and about art kind of without, I feel like perfection is is certainly is something that I'm really always kind of kind of chafing at and bugging with.
00:05:56
EJ
And I think for me, my my my story arc, I feel like I remember being a kid and having so many sounds and just loving the world of sounds and making so much noise. And like sounds on everything, drumming on everything, singing to myself, singing to other people, just making sounds.
00:06:21
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:06:21
EJ
Um... And yeah, and I think for me, most of my creative journey is kind of starting off from that and in some ways trying to recover that.
00:06:38
EJ
oh I think.
00:06:41
EJ
Yeah, yeah. and I think as a kid, especially a very loud neurodivergent kid, you're often kind of told to like maybe hone it in a little bit um in various different words, a lot of them less diplomatic.
00:06:55
EJ
oh and And so I think a lot of where I put my energies was, you know, like how do I make a craft that like, that kind of holds a little bit of this?
00:07:10
Lore Alexander
who
00:07:10
EJ
Um, how
Capitalism's Impact on Creativity
00:07:11
EJ
can I, ah you know, I'm going to be a noisemaker.
00:07:14
EJ
that This is going to come out.
00:07:15
Lore Alexander
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:17
EJ
Um, but what are the ways that that is, um, I don't know, like, like going from noise to music, I think is a very kind of, it's a funny little philosophical questions about like, where, where does one end and where does, where does another begin?
00:07:32
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:07:33
EJ
Um, yeah. And I think like a lot about that and like, um,
00:07:38
EJ
I have, i don't know, like I think about that like child like freedom of art and I love getting to work with kids, like young kids, because a lot of times that sort of undistilled like, oh, it's just coming out feeling is there.
00:07:57
EJ
um
00:07:57
Lore Alexander
Right.
00:07:59
EJ
And um yeah, I guess in terms of my arc, um We've gone from pretty unfettered and to, I feel like I reached very strongly towards like, I need to be an expert so that I can do this.
00:08:16
EJ
ah So that I can, so that i can, at the end of the day, that same sort of child dream of making noise.
00:08:19
Lore Alexander
right
00:08:21
EJ
um I felt like in a lot of ways, like I really, for a number of years, really pushed towards like the label of like being a professional, um towards the sort of like professional validation around like,
00:08:33
EJ
You know, like like, I can do this because it's my job. but
00:08:38
Lore Alexander
Right.
00:08:38
EJ
Which I like... oh Like, I think...
00:08:40
Lore Alexander
Because otherwise you gotta rein it in. But if it's your job you don't have to rein in shit. Mm-hmm.
00:08:45
EJ
Exactly, exactly. Or you would think. Yeah. i and And so I think, like, yeah, that's the three points on the story arc that I feel is, like, very, like, childlike wonder...
00:09:01
EJ
like a lot of rigor working towards like honing a craft in. um and now that I am, and yeah, now that I'm in a position that like music is my work and music is like really um a lot of my life and my responsibilities.
00:09:23
EJ
um Now I'm in a position of really trying to unlearn that honing in, in a lot of ways. um and try to get back to the kid stuff.
00:09:36
Lore Alexander
i I think that's so much of a lot of our work is like, because... No matter who, well, I won't say no matter who you are.
00:09:46
Lore Alexander
Some people have like, you know, mont go to Montessori school and they're like, they're taught that they're allowed to like explore and do whatever is like calling to them.
00:09:51
EJ
yeah Right?
00:09:57
Lore Alexander
But a lot of us get those messages of like, okay, rein it in, hone it in. Like, that's not good because of this. Or, um you know, your noises are too disruptive.
00:10:08
Lore Alexander
You're like, you need, you know,
00:10:08
EJ
yeah Yeah.
00:10:11
Lore Alexander
And then the work as adults is ah figuring out how to reconnect to that childlike wonder and reckless abandon.
00:10:21
EJ
Yeah. Oh, I love that phrase. Here
00:10:24
Lore Alexander
Yeah. Did you have like a um ah period where like the the stress of... needing to reign it in got to be too much where you like didn't know if you'd be able to continue or it was just like you knew that you had to make the noises and you had you
Artistic Hiatus and Return
00:10:43
Lore Alexander
were like my goal in life is to figure out how to make the noises without being
00:10:47
EJ
is this all about me like coming back to stimming is this like that that's swear to god but but i mean i mean kind of ah um i
00:10:53
Lore Alexander
yes
00:11:03
EJ
yeah i remember spending a lot so so my my main work is is as a guitarist um and i think um
00:11:12
EJ
Yeah, yeah. I think part of that process of, there's sort of like, and i'll I'll use that word in all the loaded connotations, like that discipline process um of like you learn a craft and you learn it like sort of like pretty traditional way.
00:11:29
EJ
um And all of the sorts of like strictures that with that. um I think,
00:11:37
EJ
yeah. I think probably about six years into studying the guitar, it stopped feeling like that much of an outlet. and
00:11:44
Lore Alexander
ah hu
00:11:45
EJ
um And so I had to start looking for that outlet in and other things. um And other, cause I kind of lost that sense of like reckless abandon, as you said. love i love that
Vulnerability and Community in Art
00:11:58
EJ
phrase of just like that.
00:12:00
EJ
I don't know. um can I cuss? Is that okay?
00:12:03
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:12:04
Lore Alexander
Yeah. you you're You're welcome to cuss.
00:12:04
EJ
ah Okay, this is my works with kids energy.
00:12:07
EJ
This is like...
00:12:12
EJ
But that sense of feeling comfortable just fucking around um and not being like outcome dependent.
00:12:16
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:12:22
EJ
um I think once I decided, oh, like I'm really like serious and I'm you know like ah professional, whatever whatever that even means, then it became...
00:12:33
EJ
not that same outlet at all um and that's about the point where I was like wow I guess this is a job and I guess this is something um more in that disciplined mode um and then I had to find other things than art you know than than than my art you know to to scratch that same itch and I'm still just like salty about it like like like like yeah like I know this is just like existing under late capitalism but like
00:12:36
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:13:02
EJ
damn like we should just have fun it would be nice if fun were baked into the processes so
00:13:06
Lore Alexander
cat yeah capitalism really destroys the creative spirit it infuriates me to no end I think I rant about capitalism in every episode of this podcast because it sucks.
00:13:17
EJ
seal it 100 let's yeah and
00:13:23
Lore Alexander
It sucks.
00:13:24
Lore Alexander
You like have this thing that you're so passionate about. You're like, this is great. And then you're like, I can make a living off of this. This is great. And then it's like, oh, I have to make a living off of this.
00:13:24
EJ
yeah
00:13:32
EJ
Yeah.
00:13:34
Lore Alexander
I have no choice. I have like, I have to, i have to meet other people's standards so that they'll pay me to do what I love doing.
00:13:36
EJ
Yeah.
00:13:44
Lore Alexander
And then it just adds in like the whole like need for external validation because you're professionally driven and need money to survive.
00:13:49
EJ
who
00:13:56
EJ
yeah yeah
00:13:58
Lore Alexander
Yeah. Which brings me to this next point, at which we wanted to jump in, wanted to talk about. um External validation and how it's...
00:14:10
Lore Alexander
this like slippery slope of like, and don't know.
00:14:13
EJ
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:15
Lore Alexander
I'm going to, um these were some kind of like half formed ideas ah that I was thinking about before we started recording. But like when you make art and you share it that and it like, and other people connect with it, like that's such a good feeling.
00:14:31
Lore Alexander
It's so good when people like resonate with the art that you make. And then you get like, don i don't know if it's the dopamine hit or whatever, brain chemicals are like, ah, connection. Like, I'm getting this connection
Creative Processes and Intuition
00:14:44
Lore Alexander
from my art and then you want to make more.
00:14:47
Lore Alexander
But then if you start to direct your art for that feeling, then you...
00:14:47
EJ
Yeah.
00:14:55
Lore Alexander
lose some of the connection with yourself and why you're making art in the first place. um And then you can like veer into like perfectionism and just like burning out and shutting down.
00:15:06
Lore Alexander
um So I'm curious how you navigate external validation um in your creative expression.
00:15:06
EJ
yeah
00:15:13
EJ
Yeah, yeah. That's been a journey. Oh my gosh. I think everybody, I think every person in every discipline artistically has to connect with that. um And, oh man, I think like, I feel like I've been saying this a lot. um I'm just out here iterating.
00:15:36
EJ
and that And I feel honestly at are a really like bubbly and happy place in my process right now i've been feeling so much joy around playing music.
00:15:43
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:15:46
EJ
And that's been like, that's really been a hard one. Yeah. That's been only like in the last like few months um that I feel like I've been able to really kind of reconnect with that this last year.
00:15:57
EJ
um And
00:16:00
EJ
I think I rely a lot on the people I'm with. um I think I'm a person who's like really
00:16:04
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:16:08
EJ
If there's a vibe, I'm gonna catch it. um I don't have like...
00:16:10
Lore Alexander
is
00:16:12
EJ
it ah
00:16:12
Lore Alexander
laughter
00:16:14
EJ
but Yeah, ah I think a lot of times, like like I am a person who picks up really readily and easily on other people's emotions. And that means like, it's kind of, I don't know, like it's weird to say this in the service of mess.
00:16:34
EJ
But like a lot of what I feel like I've been doing that's been helping me so much has been like sanitizing my data inputs. like
00:16:41
Lore Alexander
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:16:42
EJ
like I want to make music with the people who make me who encourage me to be curious. I want to make music for the people who like are who already like hear me and pick up on it.
00:16:53
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:17:01
Lore Alexander
who
00:17:02
EJ
and
00:17:04
EJ
I think being able to lean into that recently, often mostly kind of circumstantially, like, you know, like some months are like, oh, that's a really good month. You know, these like opportunities came up. It's great.
00:17:16
EJ
I think like,
00:17:18
EJ
yeah, I think I'm really enjoying trying to be a little smaller rather than trying to reach out and be like, like trying to make a
00:17:24
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:17:30
EJ
I feel like a lot of music is in some ways, there's ah there's a ah temptation to get sucked into a popularity contest.
00:17:38
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:17:38
EJ
um There's a temptation to so like kind of judge yourself on like, how many people did I draw to this show? um You know, how many how many likes on Instagram or something? um And I think I, yeah.
00:17:54
EJ
yeah um
00:17:56
EJ
Oh man, I'm like deciding whether or not to be vulnerable. That's always a hard choice. but um Yeah. um Can I just be like really real about that?
00:18:09
Lore Alexander
Yeah, please.
00:18:09
EJ
I feel like I'm kind of like holding stuff back. And I think this is honestly like a really important part of my story, which is, yeah, i like it's still tricky to talk about. I think this is kind of the first time that I've talked about this publicly.
00:18:24
EJ
um Should I do like a trigger warning? Is that like...
00:18:27
Lore Alexander
Sure, yeah, that'd be good.
00:18:28
EJ
Okay, yeah, yeah, ah like some mention around sexual assault and from from ah from an artistic mentor. and And yeah, ah I don't want to go too deep into that, but I think that was really kind of a make or break point for me ah around external validation.
00:18:51
EJ
um And a lot of my energy up to the point of that happened had been very directed towards, and
Critique of Capitalism and Growth Metaphors
00:19:03
EJ
you know, towards following that person in a lot of ways. And when I figured out that what was happening was really deeply unhealthy and I just like really, yeah I had to drop a lot of things.
00:19:20
EJ
um kind of all at once. And I wound up um taking about a two-year hiatus from making art, from playing music. I still, um ah still taught guitar, which is an interesting relationship to have when you don't feel able to play, but you still teach.
00:19:33
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:19:36
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:19:36
EJ
um
00:19:38
EJ
And I am really proud of waiting. um I'm really proud of
00:19:46
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:19:49
EJ
being receptive to being called back in. I'm really proud of the community that I found that I could really authentically trust. um And so a lot of what I feel like I want to get at when I say like sanitize your data inputs,
00:20:06
Lore Alexander
hu
00:20:08
EJ
be around people who encourage you to be you in the ways that you want to be seen, and the ways that you want be heard and experienced and who find joy in the things that like, like, like Like, everything, like art is inherently uplifting.
00:20:25
EJ
And self-expression is like one of those things we really can't do without. And I think it's really, really true that if it doesn't feel right, you don't have to cling to it.
00:20:36
EJ
um There are so many other, like let yourself, let yourself follow what feels right. um And it may take a long time um and it's worth it.
00:20:48
Lore Alexander
Thank you so much for sharing that.
00:20:50
Lore Alexander
That ability to step away and listen to what you need is so, so important.
00:20:55
EJ
but both
00:21:00
Lore Alexander
And not forcing yourself to continue doing something that you know is continuing to either like trigger you, traumatize you take you further away from yourself. Yeah.
00:21:12
EJ
um Can I share a little tidbit?
00:21:14
Lore Alexander
Yes, please.
00:21:15
EJ
um I knew it was time to come back. And I knew it was time to
Slam Poetry and Conclusion
00:21:22
EJ
play again. Like really like authentically like lead towards that um and push towards that again.
00:21:28
EJ
um i
00:21:32
EJ
yeah, i was I was in an airport and I'm totally just the schmuck who brings like a guitar to the airport and plays in the airport terminal. ah because
00:21:40
Lore Alexander
Love it.
00:21:41
EJ
oh And um yeah, and I was on my way to, ah Oh man, we're just doing like all the hard stuff. but I was on the way too to i' to the last time that i was going to see my granddad.
00:21:56
EJ
um And he was he was on his deathbed at that point. And I knew that like music is something that like marks time.
00:22:07
EJ
And music is something that really like music and ceremony are so tightly linked. music and like Music is what we have to negotiate the difficult moments. Right.
00:22:18
EJ
And so I was like getting ready for that and like deciding what songs I wanted to play and just like playing them very gently in the airport. And a woman came up to me as we were boarding and said, i had a headache as I was coming down to the, like to the term, to the, to the terminal.
00:22:38
EJ
And I sat down next to you and my headache went away. And I still think that's like the, that like the, the sweetest, like, like, I don't know, just like no expectations praised that I think I've just ever had.
00:22:50
EJ
Just that sense of like something in me that I put out helped to calm something in her.
00:22:57
EJ
and
00:22:58
EJ
Yeah. And then I was like, okay, all we're doing this. so that said Yeah, well, it's like that felt so much like, like I'll get kind of woo.
00:23:03
Lore Alexander
back in
00:23:11
EJ
That's like, that's like that felt like a request, you know, that felt like, like, like what I had to offer was something that I, that was a value that was resonant.
00:23:24
EJ
um And it's funny because, you know, that was external validation, that right?
00:23:29
Lore Alexander
Great.
00:23:30
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:23:31
EJ
But it was also this like sweet Paul Lynn.
00:23:33
EJ
And I also already, but don't know, like I was still like, those songs were enough for me already, you know?
00:23:41
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:23:42
EJ
Yeah.
00:23:43
Lore Alexander
That's so beautiful.
00:23:46
EJ
Thank you.
00:23:46
Lore Alexander
So glad that you got the call to come back.
00:23:50
EJ
I am too. think about that a lot. There's a lot of little graces, think, around really tough moments that I think, like, retrospectively, I'm so loathe to, like, like,
00:24:03
EJ
I don't know, like, like, share any story about like, oh, and that's what made it all worth it. Like,
00:24:10
EJ
that's um, yes but like, I think the opportunity that arose from the crisis was for me to really find my own relationship to an art that had begun to feel not like my own and to a craft that had begun to feel not like my own.
00:24:31
EJ
And and I'm just really grateful to all of the external circumstances, to the people who held me and to the people like to the the coincidences that and that that drew me back. I still feel like it's just one of those.
00:24:47
EJ
It feels like an accident that I am so grateful for every single day.
00:24:51
Lore Alexander
Wow.
00:24:54
Lore Alexander
I think I need to take a second. I'm like, oh.
00:24:56
EJ
I'm sorry. I'm like, I'm also...
00:25:00
EJ
I should have warned you. I'm like, I'm gonna cry. It's...
00:25:02
Lore Alexander
No.
00:25:03
EJ
But...
00:25:05
Lore Alexander
I love it.
00:25:07
EJ
but
00:25:07
Lore Alexander
i I'm so glad that you were willing to be that emotionally vulnerable here because I don't expect people to get that vulnerable here. like I know we we talk about like vulnerable things. Creativity like inherently gets in touch to something very deep in your core. um And I think like that, that's the piece that does bring us the connection. And like, that's the piece that like, whatever external validations find like those two, like just like sparks and like one person allowing their spark to shine, like you playing your guitar in that airport, just like,
00:25:46
Lore Alexander
doing your thing, willing to be vulnerable and exist out in the world and be like, yeah, I'm going to shine my light however I want to shine it. And then having somebody else being like, yes, this is what I needed was to see you in your light right now.
00:26:00
Lore Alexander
And like, it's like the namaste, like ah the light in me sees the light within you. Like that's what creativity is.
00:26:06
EJ
Yeah.
00:26:07
Lore Alexander
And like, that's That is the piece of external validation, I think, that like is worth like being open to. Not like seeking and like changing and contorting yourself to fit into some kind of box for, but in being willing to do the scary things and like open yourself up to being vulnerable and open with your art to share with others. like that's That's the piece of it that is absolutely worth it.
00:26:35
EJ
Yeah. ah And I love, like, I love this verbiage of opening. um Because I really do,
00:26:44
EJ
and don't know, if feel I feel like so many of the people I love to read and love to talk to have, like, different language around it, around, like, And one of my friends is like, oh, I got a transmission. it You know, like like so something comes in, right?
00:26:56
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:26:57
EJ
And, and...
00:26:59
EJ
Yeah. And I think a lot of what vulnerability is, is like...
00:27:04
EJ
It is more than you that holds the process. You set the conditions for the process. You open to the process. Um... But, you know, you let it be ugly.
00:27:15
EJ
You let it, you let some, you let the, you let the space have air.
00:27:20
Lore Alexander
who
00:27:21
Lore Alexander
I like that. You let the space have air. um like that a lot.
00:27:27
EJ
ah ah
00:27:30
Lore Alexander
Pat yourself on the back for that one.
00:27:30
EJ
Thank you for holding all that. I appreciate it. I wasn't like, I had no idea if I'd talk about all that. So um thank you for for making a space where I felt really comfortable to do. um yeah
00:27:42
Lore Alexander
I'm honored that you felt so comfortable. So thank you for sharing.
00:27:46
Lore Alexander
So now that you're you're back in your creative practice, you're back making music, um what are your practices help your creative engine stay
00:28:00
Lore Alexander
help your creative engine stay fueled
00:28:04
EJ
Oh, hell yeah. but um Yeah. um I think a lot of... oh man. just talk. I'm just going to talk.
00:28:17
EJ
I'm like, should i edit this down? No, I'm just going to talk.
00:28:19
Lore Alexander
Dive in.
00:28:20
EJ
Yeah. um Brain-wise, brain-wise, and I am a person who can very readily slip into modes of like very black and white thinking um and very like...
00:28:32
EJ
Like I'm really good with a lot of rigid structure. I'm really like, I thought I was going to be an engineer. that This sort of frame is something that like over the course of many years of learning and self-discovery, I have realized that that is a seduction in a direction that I don't want.
00:28:51
EJ
um And a lot of what I'm trying to do in every aspect of my life right now is really like, how do I cultivate intuition? Um, and, oh man, that shit, like, that takes me so many places and it makes me really happy.
00:29:09
Lore Alexander
I love that.
00:29:09
EJ
Um, I, I think the biggest thing right now for me, um, is sensory-wise, I feel like I'm really learning to, like, like, literally just trust my nose, um, in a way that, like,
00:29:28
EJ
like tangent I think really like kind of parallels transition um inderwise I think a lot of a lot of trans films notice that like their sense of smell gets more acute after like you know taking taking estrogen which is like such a strange like like biological quirk like I love that um
00:29:39
Lore Alexander
Oh, interesting.
00:29:48
EJ
and
00:29:48
Lore Alexander
That's so cool. I didn't know that.
00:29:50
EJ
yeah um and I think I'm somebody who I'm really like smell interested And so um a lot of that is like cooking related for me.
00:30:04
EJ
A lot of that is fermentation related for me. um I do a lot with like like making pickles, kombucha, um sourdough, um and a sense of like being able to smell.
00:30:15
Lore Alexander
Love a sourdough.
00:30:17
EJ
Yeah, oh my God, this my favorite. Being able to smell and have my nose know, but not in a way that like like adheres to Cartesian logic.
00:30:28
EJ
um is something that like, oh, oh, like my body just like knows things. And so I'll lean into that. um I think also smell is like this elusive scent, right? Like I feel like if you, like you you get acclimated to smell very quickly.
00:30:47
EJ
And so you really only have a few like good like inhales for your body to really like notice this sort of like first listen with your nose. Um,
00:30:58
EJ
And that's been such a like, like leaning into that and just really diving into sensitivity with that has been so straight up like goofy. ah oh miss Like I always want to like double check with myself if I feel like I'm sounding too serious about this, but it's just goofy.
00:31:18
EJ
It's like this total like first thought, best thought relationship about like engaging with the world and like how do I read this?
00:31:21
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:31:25
EJ
It's just like, okay. um
00:31:30
EJ
And I don't know, it's been, like, it's been wild. um I've, like, found mushrooms by smelling mushrooms and following my nose. I've, like, I yeah i found, i like, I, yeah, I'm, like, it's this crazy, like, it's, like, again, like, so affirming.
00:31:42
Lore Alexander
What? Sorry, had to scream for a second.
00:31:52
EJ
and gender wise I'm, like, it's working. I don't know, it It's nuts. And it's really like a ah great way for me to just like get out of my head about like, like if I try to logic it out, it's gone.
00:32:07
EJ
I don't have time for that. Yeah.
00:32:10
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:32:11
EJ
yeah So that's one practice. Yeah.
00:32:15
Lore Alexander
i I love this. i Okay. I love a lot of things about this. but Like,
00:32:21
Lore Alexander
Finding practices that, like, sharpen your intuition, i think, is one of the most valuable things we can do Like, especially, so i grew up super religious, and religion tends to take us far away from our intuition.
00:32:32
EJ
Yeah.
00:32:37
EJ
Yeah.
00:32:38
Lore Alexander
And so it has taken so long for me to finally come back into my sense of intuition and, like, trusting my intuition. And so i love this idea of making it, like,
00:32:51
Lore Alexander
turning it into ah creative practice, into a goofy practice, into a scavenger hunt practice of finding fucking mushrooms.
00:32:57
EJ
i
00:32:59
Lore Alexander
Like, incredible. All of that. Just, like, the practice of, like... Trusting your senses, trusting your body, trusting your interpretation of what's going on is all incredible and lovely.
00:33:15
Lore Alexander
um And also, I like that there's the focus and the emphasis on the goofiness because like sometimes are our first thought, our best thought is real dumb, like in the best sense of just like, what?
00:33:26
EJ
This is so fucking dumb!
00:33:29
Lore Alexander
Why did I just think that? I don't know, but whatever.
00:33:32
EJ
shit
00:33:32
Lore Alexander
That's what's out in the world.
00:33:34
EJ
shit a hundred was ah a hundred percent 100% 100% I think my one thing that like like I will advise this is like both for myself and for anybody else if first that best thought is put it in your mouth and maybe another thought is like like like I've had to learn that lesson a few times like that's
00:33:49
Lore Alexander
Spit it out.
00:33:56
Lore Alexander
ah Those are the the kids that ate glue in class. Just like, what is this?
00:34:00
EJ
That was me, 100% PaceSquad for life. Like, that's like...
00:34:06
Lore Alexander
Play-Doh, put it in there. Crayons, nom on it.
00:34:08
EJ
Exactly. Play-doh is like a mistake. You do not make the Play-doh mistake more than once. You do not. Like, that shit is...
00:34:14
Lore Alexander
I may have made the Play-Doh mistake multiple times.
00:34:15
EJ
Oh, man.
00:34:17
Lore Alexander
I liked the taste of it.
00:34:18
EJ
so
00:34:19
Lore Alexander
I don't know.
00:34:23
EJ
a oh man
00:34:24
Lore Alexander
Just, it's salty and weird. I just like a little snack throughout your day.
00:34:27
EJ
It's so salty!
00:34:32
EJ
ah
00:34:33
Lore Alexander
i don't know. I'm a weird ass. Just me flashbacking to eating a lot of Play-Doh.
00:34:37
EJ
Oh man.
00:34:39
Lore Alexander
Oh my God.
00:34:40
EJ
ah Hell yeah. and No judgment. Never any judgment. Oh.
00:34:49
EJ
oh
00:34:54
Lore Alexander
Amazing. I need to drink some water.
00:34:56
EJ
So yeah, that's my practice is like kind of just being a clown. That's one of them. um Yeah. Yeah. And it means the world to me. It's just been a lot of fun.
00:35:09
Lore Alexander
Incredible.
00:35:10
EJ
I guess actually I want to say one more thing.
00:35:10
Lore Alexander
um Yeah, please, please.
00:35:12
EJ
I want to say one more thing.
00:35:13
Lore Alexander
please
00:35:13
EJ
um And I want to say this as a person who has stopped and started meditating so many times and as a person who has like stopped and started running so many times and so many like Like, there's so much, like, self-help adjacent things that are, like, just do the thing.
00:35:29
EJ
Do the thing and you're going to live a better life. Do the thing. and ah you know yeah and Find the thing that, like, you do because you like to do it. um And then you'll, like, actually do the thing.
00:35:42
EJ
um Like, I'm sure it's, like, basic logic, but, like, oh, my God.
00:35:44
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:35:46
EJ
Like, if, you know, a practice has to be right-sized. um
00:35:51
Lore Alexander
Absolutely.
00:35:53
EJ
Yeah.
00:35:54
Lore Alexander
Absolutely. I mean, the number of times I've tried to get into running or get into like working out with like weightlifting or just going to a gym.
00:36:01
EJ
Mm-hmm.
00:36:02
Lore Alexander
I hate running. I hate going to a gym.
00:36:07
Lore Alexander
Like the only way that I'm going to get myself to actually move my body is if I'm doing something I enjoy. So it like has to be like rock climbing or dancing or tennis or like something that I'm like with people and I'm interactive like,
00:36:07
EJ
Mm-hmm.
00:36:13
EJ
Mm-hmm.
00:36:23
Lore Alexander
Yeah, it's like challenging and fun.
00:36:23
EJ
Hell yeah.
00:36:27
Lore Alexander
Not ah like I can't just work out for working out sake. It doesn't work for me. I have tried so hard on so many different occasions.
00:36:33
EJ
who Yeah.
00:36:34
Lore Alexander
It's like find what actually like what you actually enjoy. Yeah, I absolutely second that.
00:36:41
EJ
I have a question for you. And this is like, for me, I'm like, is like the emphasis on do the thing that's not intrinsically rewarding?
00:36:42
Lore Alexander
Yes.
00:36:53
EJ
Because it may, like, is that also perfectionism culture?
00:36:59
Lore Alexander
Can you phrase that in a different way?
00:36:59
EJ
I feel...
00:37:01
Lore Alexander
i Like, yes, and phrase it differently.
00:37:01
EJ
oh hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. like Like, I feel like a lot of...
00:37:10
EJ
Oh, we're back to capitalism, baby. Like, this is like... 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:13
Lore Alexander
Bring it back.
00:37:13
EJ
i and how to resent oh
00:37:14
Lore Alexander
Bring us back.
00:37:16
EJ
and yeah um
00:37:19
EJ
Man, okay. So
00:37:22
EJ
capitalism is a really weird thing. It's a really weird ideology. It's really flexible. And it's incredible the depth to which you can wind up learning to co-opt everything that's, like, kind of important about life into this sort of, like, commodity form, into this sort of, like, like...
00:37:41
Lore Alexander
Right.
00:37:46
EJ
Like, I think the like like the seduction of capitalism is the, like, you could have this when you don't have it. And, like, most often, well, actually, you can't, right? that's for That's for, you know, that's for maybe you're born closer to the money river or whatever like whatever whatever it is, you know?
00:38:01
EJ
and But um
00:38:04
EJ
that sense of, like, you even kind of get alienated from your own aspirations, right?
00:38:11
Lore Alexander
hmm.
00:38:11
EJ
And like health, like the the way that health gets commodified. Like, and it's really easy to to get stuck in that sense of like, you know, if I do these things, then I'll be healthy and feel better and be a better person.
00:38:32
EJ
And the things that like, don't know, it's just not a complicated enough narrative. Like, there's so many, like, interruptions to say yes and on that.
00:38:44
EJ
And it's just, like...
00:38:46
EJ
I don't know. I remember specifically about running and and, like, feeling like this was something I had to do. And...
00:38:56
EJ
and I don't know. Like, and it kind of calls back to it. i was Like, body image stuff. um And I think, like...
00:39:06
EJ
Literally anything is more fun. Literally anything for me is like more fulfilling.
00:39:14
EJ
And, and yeah, I don't know. um I just think we should all have more fun. ah dan That's it.
00:39:21
Lore Alexander
Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of what you were saying made me think of... I used to be really into reading self-help books. And self-help books, like, they did help me a lot in my life and helped me, like, reframe some things.
00:39:34
Lore Alexander
But, like, one of the things it also did was make me feel like I was never happy enough or I was never doing enough to...
00:39:42
EJ
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:39:45
Lore Alexander
And, like...
00:39:46
Lore Alexander
there's There's, like... How i do I want to phrase this? There's, like... There's so many ways that your life can be improved just in general. Like there's lots, you can work out more, you can ah engage with people differently. You can make art. You can, there's like ah million different ways that you can improve your life in one way or another, depending on who you are and what you need and what's good for you.
00:40:10
Lore Alexander
But like, it feels like that the generalized thing of like, do this and you will be happier is just so, it's such bullshit.
00:40:21
Lore Alexander
it's like, it's, you need that intuition piece. I feel like, like what, like you need to learn to listen to what you need and like pursue that in a way that's not like perfectionistic.
00:40:34
EJ
Mm-hmm.
00:40:35
Lore Alexander
Like this is going to make me happy. This is going to fix me. It's like, no, like, what do I want to explore? What am I lacking? How can I bring more of this in, invite more of this in? Can I like, will meditating happen help me? Will running help? Like,
00:40:50
Lore Alexander
Will those things bring me closer to myself? And will I enjoy them?
00:40:54
EJ
ah yeah yeah absolutely and i'm gonna say one more thing because i just can't stop um bring you close to yours absolutely oh hell yeah and it's like like you're widening that space i love that and then also
00:40:56
Lore Alexander
You know?
00:41:01
Lore Alexander
for it.
00:41:10
EJ
So much of the, and like, and this is again, like, like, I, I also, I really appreciate the nudge that like, yeah, like some self-help books really helpful. Like I've like, I've learned a lot.
00:41:18
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:41:20
EJ
um But a lot of times, a lot of the times ways that things are phrased, it puts things into individual effort.
00:41:31
Lore Alexander
Yes. Mm-hmm.
00:41:31
EJ
Where it's this I problem instead of, it's this labor.
00:41:38
EJ
And what it can be, if you find the right people, is a we, like, like, I feel like I hear labor and maybe I hear effort or like shared sweat.
00:41:53
EJ
Like when I'm doing, i don't know, like I can,
00:41:57
EJ
yeah, like I can be just as active doing an activity I love with my friends. something that brings me that and it's not something that I feel like I don't feel like I'm working out. and
00:42:07
Lore Alexander
Right.
00:42:07
EJ
You know? Yeah, it's just like, it's the same thing but less alienated.
00:42:13
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:42:14
EJ
It's, yeah. um And so it's, I don't know, it's the same intention tension of like,
00:42:20
EJ
I don't want to discount external validation.
00:42:24
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:42:24
EJ
Because the external is like, it's just a part of who we are. We are like like nodes in a web. We are parts of communities. And I think the practices we choose should open us deeper to ourselves and ideally, hopefully, help us find people who are who are similarly fulfilled.
00:42:44
EJ
um Yeah, I want to edit out that should. Fuck, I should. But, um...
00:42:50
Lore Alexander
ah
00:42:52
EJ
buts Yeah. Yeah. um
00:42:55
Lore Alexander
Fuck the should, but maintain the sentiment.
00:42:57
EJ
Um... Exactly. exactly Yeah, I'm like... Not prescriptive, but you know.
00:43:05
Lore Alexander
Yes. Yeah.
00:43:06
EJ
Yeah.
00:43:06
Lore Alexander
No, I love it. i And I love that that brought it back to like
00:43:08
EJ
Yeah.
00:43:10
Lore Alexander
yeah, the, the community and the, the people that we're surrounding ourselves with that bring us joy and life, like the individualistic culture of the United States, um, and a lot of the Western world is, i think we're really seeing the damage that it's doing, like becoming so much more in your face, um, because of where it's brought us to.
00:43:26
EJ
like
00:43:36
EJ
Yeah.
00:43:36
Lore Alexander
um So that I think that's especially for people who are feeling like really lonely and frustrated right now and like don't know what to do in the world.
00:43:48
Lore Alexander
Like finding those people who are on the same page and like shedding some that individualistic stuff is.
00:43:49
EJ
Yeah.
00:43:57
EJ
Yeah. Oh, shedding is a great verb for that.
00:43:58
Lore Alexander
Mm hmm.
00:43:59
EJ
Yeah.
00:44:02
Lore Alexander
Yeah, that's that's that's the work right now.
00:44:03
EJ
Oh.
00:44:05
Lore Alexander
And it's hard.
00:44:05
EJ
Yeah.
00:44:06
Lore Alexander
Like finding community is so hard. like i that's I'm struggling with that so much right now. So validating anybody who's like, I don't know how to find community. Me fucking neither.
00:44:16
EJ
Feel it, feel it. Yeah, um yeah, yeah.
00:44:17
Lore Alexander
It's hard.
00:44:19
EJ
Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah.
00:44:22
EJ
Yeah. Shedding just made me... i'm just gonna follow a thought train. I'm so sorry. You have questions, I'm like, I'm just bopping.
00:44:27
Lore Alexander
No, you're doing I had like, had like three questions. We already asked them like to go off.
00:44:35
EJ
hell yeah i think when you said shedding it made me wonder about
00:44:42
EJ
like do and what does it feel like to be an insect or like a reptile when it's time to molt right like do you just have this sense of like it's too small do do you have a sense of like confinedness do you have a sense of like like
00:44:57
EJ
Yeah, and I think maybe, like,
00:45:02
EJ
I don't know, it must be nice to kind of come preloaded with, like, genetic instructions about, like, oh, like, when I need to, like, peel my skin off, it's time, and this is how to do it, you know?
00:45:10
Lore Alexander
Right? Yes.
00:45:12
EJ
oh um But I think, like, maybe the poetic direction that I want to go in that is, like, I don't think anybody knows what that next molt is going to look I think as you are peeling that off, as you they youre like, whoa, this is really visceral imagery.
00:45:34
EJ
I think there's this, like like, that sense of not knowing when anything is going to arrive. That sense of, like, like not being sure what the next thing is.
00:45:47
EJ
or like, where to find community. Where to find, like, like what is that next part of opening up? I think that uncertainty is so, so true to growth. And that's one of the hardest, hardest things about like shedding ideology.
00:45:56
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:45:59
EJ
That's one of the hardest, hardest things about like opening up to yourself more is that you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know where you're going to find it. You don't know whether you're going to get an answer.
00:46:10
EJ
You just know like, Ooh, she got to get this off. um
00:46:15
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:46:16
EJ
And off is not safe.
00:46:18
Lore Alexander
No. Off is scary as hell.
00:46:21
EJ
yeah Oh, man.
00:46:23
Lore Alexander
You're like, I am squishy and there are predators that can eat me.
00:46:25
EJ
Yeah.
00:46:28
Lore Alexander
It's...
00:46:29
EJ
Yeah.
00:46:30
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:46:31
EJ
Yeah. Oh.
00:46:33
Lore Alexander
Becoming is an uncomfortable process.
00:46:36
EJ
Yeah. Oh, man.
00:46:37
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:46:38
EJ
i One of my favorite poems as a kid, I grew up in Denver, and I had the there's a really dedicated slam poetry scene in And as a kiddo, as like, you know, like a, like
00:46:49
EJ
didn't quite know exactly what flavor or, you know, direction of gay I was. and um that Didn't quite know exactly like what brain I had, you know.
00:47:01
EJ
um
00:47:01
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:47:02
EJ
I felt so lucky to have gotten to meet who is a slam poet at Yeah!
00:47:07
Lore Alexander
Oh, amazing. I love Andrea Gibson.
00:47:10
EJ
Yeah! Yeah!
00:47:12
Lore Alexander
ah
00:47:12
EJ
And just what you said there reminds me
00:47:15
EJ
There's ah there's a a line in one of their poems of, oh, it's been so long since I've been back to this, but it just made me think so much of this, of a conversation with the son and the son saying it hurts to become.
00:47:29
EJ
um And man, I'm just so glad to have been, to have been held by those words early, I think, and to have gotten to to see them perform at the Yeah, at the Mercury Cafe, which just got sold off! ah i Salty.
00:47:46
EJ
and But yeah, yeah.
00:47:48
Lore Alexander
Fucking capitalism.
00:47:50
EJ
Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be like a a lesbian bar, so I'm like, I'm dead.
00:47:53
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:47:54
EJ
Like, I guess that's like... is I'm more okay with that.
00:47:58
Lore Alexander
maybe that's maybe that's less so Maybe that's less so a critique of capitalism, more so just a sadness of like things come to an end and things...
00:47:59
EJ
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:04
EJ
Yeah.
00:48:05
Lore Alexander
you know yeah
00:48:06
EJ
and yeah
00:48:08
Lore Alexander
Yeah.
00:48:08
EJ
ah yeah
00:48:10
Lore Alexander
ah Well, usually I take some time to make some art with people, but we were just chatting too much and we don' don't really have time.
00:48:22
EJ
Oh my gosh.
00:48:22
Lore Alexander
Unless you want to do like a 30 second like sprint. What can you make in 30 seconds?
00:48:27
EJ
Oh my god. oh my god.
00:48:28
Lore Alexander
ah
00:48:29
EJ
Okay, give me a sec.
00:48:29
Lore Alexander
Ugly art.
00:48:30
EJ
I'm so game for that. I'm also so on a roof right now. I'm so...
00:48:36
Lore Alexander
I guess I should have asked if you like have some pen and paper with you.
00:48:39
EJ
I have everything I need.
00:48:40
Lore Alexander
i didn't.
00:48:40
EJ
I came prepared.
00:48:42
Lore Alexander
Oh, you did.
00:48:42
EJ
I'm also just on a roof, so it's gonna be a balancing act.
00:48:42
Lore Alexander
Okay.
00:48:46
Lore Alexander
Gotcha. Okay.
00:48:51
EJ
This has been so good and so silly. This just really made me feel... i feel really good. ah
00:48:56
Lore Alexander
Good. I'm so glad I have also really enjoyed this. It's great.
00:49:01
EJ
Okay, how am I gonna do this? I'm gonna put this... Oh, that's gonna slide.
00:49:09
Lore Alexander
Will it sit on the chair that's next to you?
00:49:11
EJ
I think it will. I think it will. Yeah. good and um Just as a public safety announcement, if you don't have experience being on slidey surfaces, make that you have three points of contact at at all times.
00:49:23
EJ
All
00:49:28
Lore Alexander
That good advice.
00:49:29
EJ
all right. Let's see. I think I can get this right here, and I think we can restart. Yeah. There's like an arm of the chair in the way, but that's okay.
00:49:40
Lore Alexander
That's totally fine.
00:49:42
EJ
Yeah! Yeah!
00:49:45
Lore Alexander
All right. Let's do... um Oh, what do I... Do you want, like, a prompt or do you want to just go?
00:49:52
EJ
oh wow. Um... Um... 30 seconds?
00:49:58
Lore Alexander
yeah
00:49:58
EJ
Whoa. Um...
00:50:01
EJ
I wanna just go. I wanna just go.
00:50:03
Lore Alexander
Okay. Great.
00:50:04
EJ
Yeah.
00:50:04
Lore Alexander
Ready?
00:50:05
EJ
Are you keeping time?
00:50:05
Lore Alexander
go Yeah, going to keep time.
00:50:06
EJ
Alright, oh hell yeah.
00:50:08
Lore Alexander
Go.
00:50:12
Lore Alexander
Usually I ask questions during this time, but I think 30 seconds. I got to focus on what the
00:50:19
EJ
I'm like not focusing at all. like You do you. That's... Oh no.
00:50:26
Lore Alexander
Fine, you be the interviewer.
00:50:26
EJ
that's but oh no
00:50:30
Lore Alexander
right, that's time.
00:50:33
EJ
yes
00:50:36
EJ
but Oh man. Are we gonna show each other what we made?
00:50:37
Lore Alexander
but yeah Yeah, we're showing each other and then I'll ask you to send me a picture because I like to share them when I post a the announcement and stuff on social media.
00:50:47
Lore Alexander
so
00:50:48
EJ
This is so goofy. This is like... I love that, I love that.
00:50:53
Lore Alexander
I'm excited. let me Let's see it
00:50:55
EJ
but's Okay. It is just squiggles because I have some really- I don't- Ooh, it might be too much glare here.
00:51:01
Lore Alexander
Oh yeah, I see it.
00:51:03
EJ
Oh yeah. So it really, it is literally just squiggles, but I feel like, like, I have some really, like, gestural irises going down, like, I don't know, like, about 30 feet below me.
00:51:04
Lore Alexander
Hell
00:51:13
Lore Alexander
yeah. Yeah,
00:51:15
EJ
Um, was trying to just get that, like, that zip. Um. Hell yeah.
00:51:19
Lore Alexander
Yeah, I love it
00:51:20
EJ
Oh, nice!
00:51:21
Lore Alexander
I also just went like full scribbles. Just...
00:51:24
EJ
Do you remember the blobby? Ooh, and also, like, I love the way the lines kind of, like, connect and then, like, change... Some lines are like really straight and geometric.
00:51:32
Lore Alexander
Yeah, I like, mm-hmm.
00:51:34
EJ
it
00:51:35
Lore Alexander
Yeah, i had some of them like kind of going together and then ah others I'm just like, whatever.
00:51:40
EJ
yeah
00:51:41
Lore Alexander
Just continued scribbles. i love I love a good scribble. like if i'm ever like Especially if I have a lot of energy in my body, just like quick scribbles is just so satisfying.
00:51:50
EJ
Mm-hmm.
00:51:52
Lore Alexander
I love it.
00:51:56
Lore Alexander
EJ, thank you so much for being here. This was really lovely.
00:51:59
EJ
This was such a treat. Oh my gosh.
00:52:03
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:52:03
EJ
I'm just feeling super warm and super welcomed. um Yeah. um I don't know if I mentioned this, but all of my favorite podcasts are interviews.
00:52:16
EJ
And it just like, I don't know. It's just really, it's so sweet. And it's really just tender to get to to have a conversation like this and to listen in on other people's conversations.
00:52:29
EJ
that i just I just like this face a lot. So thank I hope some other folks like it too.
00:52:32
Lore Alexander
Yay.
00:52:35
Lore Alexander
hope so as well. um Do you have anything ah coming up? So this will be airing in ah June. So if you have anything you'd like to plug or just if people ah can get in touch with you or want to work with you in some capacity.
00:52:42
EJ
Okay.
00:52:50
EJ
Oh, thank you so much. um i My calendar exists in my brain in about a month at a time. um
00:52:56
Lore Alexander
Sure.
00:52:57
EJ
I think in June, yeah, yeah, I think I have a gig coming up at some some botanical gardens in SeaTac, which I'm really excited about.
00:53:06
Lore Alexander
Mm-hmm.
00:53:07
EJ
I'm such a plant nerd. And um so it's going to be really fun to bring my jazz organ trio there. We're called Thruocracy. And I will, of course, send details on that. um For any information about my work and where to find me, I've got like a ah comprehensive performance calendar on my website.
00:53:25
EJ
EJCrockerMusic.com. um I also teach guitar and ukulele and songwriting um and um music theory if you're a nerd.
00:53:36
EJ
ah And yeah, so all the information to get in touch with me is on that website. ah So thanks so much for, yeah, for giving me this space to a little plug.
00:53:46
Lore Alexander
Absolutely. Always want to promote my guests in whatever way I can. ah Thank you again. This was amazing. i hope all of you listening enjoyed it just as much as we did. And remember to go forth, ah make a mess and keep it ugly, everybody.