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I'm Not Trying to Convince You (A Better Way to Have Hard Conversations) with Barb Stanley
275 Plays17 days ago
Larah kicks off the 2026 season with a conversation that sets the tone for every interview to come. Her guest is Barb Stanley, founder of Wonderful Works Ministry—and also a mentor who helped Larah put words to something so many special needs parents feel but can’t always articulate:
You don’t have to convince people. You can share your story and invite them to consider your lived experience.This episode is for the parent who is tired of defending. For the church member who wants to advocate without blowing up. For the leader who wants to listen well in a world that feels allergic to disagreement. Barb offers a practical, gospel-minded framework for staying calm, staying curious, and staying relational—even when the topic is emotional, personal, and high-stakes.
About Barb Stanley
Barb is the founder of Wonderful Works Ministry, an online disability ministry resource center equipping churches with practical tools for inclusive discipleship. Growing up with a brother with autism and intellectual disability, Barb combines lived experience with creative skills in design, writing, and illustration to make resources churches can actually use.
https://www.wonderfulworksministry.org/
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Raising Autistic Disciples. My name is Lara Roberts and I am giddy. And if you are not from the South, you may not know what that word means. So let me explain to you. I am doing a happy dance inside and outside too. Let me do a little happy dance right here for those of you watching. um I'm giddy about today's conversation with my friend, the magnificent, the incredible, all the other adjectives and adverbs and all the other words that could explain there are no words that you could i could sit here and talk forever about my friend barb stanley is on the podcast hey barb oh my goodness well first thank you for the best introduction of my entire life i'm gonna savor this moment because i don't think this will ever you are like that again but thank you i am super excited to be here
00:00:55
Speaker
Absolutely. ah Yeah. So Barb, I don't know if I've told you this or not, but you are like um the third podcast of the 2026 season of Raising Autistic Disciples. Yeah, absolutely. And so Colin and I chatted last week. um But the reason why you are like at the very beginning is because this conversation today is going to frame the rest of my podcast interviews for the entire year.
00:01:21
Speaker
All right, no pressure. Let's go. No pressure. But that is the wisdom. ah For those of you listening, that is the wisdom that Barb has poured into me as a mentor of mine as listen, I'm going to say it, Barb, as a leadership coach, I do think
Barb's Background and Ministry Work
00:01:36
Speaker
you should be doing this. And I'm sure you are doing this more often because of of how good you are at it. um I'm gonna let you explain kind of what you do here in a second. But ah for a for There may be tears in this podcast, but I'll go and start us off. But I truly, in this season, i can't tell you how many times this week alone I have said this sentence.
00:01:56
Speaker
Praise God that there are seasons in our life or that i'm I'm coming to understand as an adult that when we're navigating through some things, one of his greatest gifts to us is friendship.
00:02:08
Speaker
Amen. that That when I am struggling with something, yes, absolutely. His word, um the people of God, but more or less when I'm struggling, like, or I'm navigating a certain thing, his gift to us is is a friend. And in this season of my life, it has been new friends. It has been as ones that have come on. And um and so you have you poured into me um in a specific way that I want to talk about specifically in this podcast. But before we do that, Barb,
00:02:36
Speaker
Let me just tell you, those of you listening, if you have not um done a Google search, if you have not Facebook or Instagram, Barb Stanley is a the founder of a absolutely wonderful ministry called Wonderful Works. Barb, tell us all about you, who you are, and and specifically, what is Wonderful Works and how is God just using it to just help families like
Social Media Challenges and Advice
00:02:59
Speaker
ours?
00:02:59
Speaker
Okay, so I'm Barb Stanley, and I grew up in a family impacted by disability, as um I have a brother who has autism and intellectual disability, and he was born back in 1969. Okay. Yeah, so grew up... Are you a big sister or your little sister, right?
00:03:17
Speaker
I'm going to pretend to not be offended by that. ah Okay, hold on a second. 62. Okay. Wait, you're a little sister. am way younger. I'm sorry, Barb. okay yeah, that's, yeah I was born Yeah, so we grew up in the seventy s and eighty s and ninety s in west Virginia.
00:03:39
Speaker
And there was no um support for autism or disability. In fact, no one had even heard of autism until Rain Man came out, if anyone remember that. So was a completely different world. And so that was a great impact on my life. And when I grew up and became an adult, I ended up working for my church, which was not a plan that I had ever planned to do. My background is actually in art and writing.
00:04:03
Speaker
And ah when I was there, I felt called to start a disability ministry at our church, and that went really well. And so other churches started asking us for advice. And i will spare you the whole story. That can be another podcast all of itself. But one way, um one thing led to another. And in 2020, we launched Wonderful Works Ministry. And what that is, is that...
00:04:24
Speaker
is an um online disability ministry resource center. So we make like five-minute training videos that are animated that really help teach like church volunteers what they need to know a little at a time over time.
00:04:39
Speaker
So it's changing this training structure. We make adapted Bible Kids videos and lessons. We have a customizable classroom tools. Basically, I took the career that God had given me originally, which was graphic design and writing and illustration, um and used what he, the experiences he gave me as someone being in a disability family and merged those two things together. So we make the tools that churches need to do successful disability ministry.
00:05:11
Speaker
You can find all of those at our website, wonderfulworksministry.org, through the Adapted Discipleship Library tab. Love it. And I can attest, it is amazing resources. so if you're church leader listening, as well as a parent, point your church toward wonderful works for discipleship ministry resources. And um the the visuals alone, Barb, I had a message just the other day about, hey, do you have any, ah this ah sweet kiddo, autistic image bearer, this mom was saying he loves visual imagery for worship. Do you have anything?
00:05:44
Speaker
Yes, I do. You need to go find wonderful works, send your church to them anyway. So just the visuals and being able, like you said, I've, I've, I've used, ah key ministries use several wonderful works just as uh, resource to be able to help volunteer. So fantastic job, Barb, and the Lord is using, using that ministry, your organization, mightily. And so, yeah, um, um,
00:06:08
Speaker
Oh, Barb. Okay, let's, um, let's talk about the one thing that since you Since you helped me understand something, it has been an absolute just, um it's been gold. um And like I said before, it's going to frame this conversation and the conversations to come. Because um I explored a little bit in the intro podcast a couple weeks ago, Colin and I talked about what's coming. But Barb, um I am having conversations. And w well, okay. Yeah.
00:06:39
Speaker
Let me preface. i' I'm not having conversations to be polarizing. i'm not having I'm not having these difficult, I will say difficult, conversations in the future with podcast people to try to um throw anybody on the bus. ah It is, I'm telling you, yeah and it the Lord used you. I'm doing it specifically so that I can gain perspective and learn from other people who don't see things the way I do.
00:07:06
Speaker
Right. And so, ah yeah, so ah that is how much what what we're about to or what you're about to teach those listening that you taught me. um And so, yeah, we're we're going to be talking about and just ah some episodes right after this about the Tylenol study with autism. we're We're going to be talking about um the ah one of my other friends that I met on Instagram, you know, having to walk away from a church that outright rejected them. We're all these difficult conversations. um We're going to be talking about something that I'm wrestling with the age of accountability. And so ah all of these different things. But the reason why I mentioned them
00:07:44
Speaker
is because they can easily get tense. And I don't think that's a problem. I don't think tension here is the problem in conversations. I believe one, not having the conversation at all is a problem. Number two, then seeing the other person. And this is, this is a cross this, this honestly what you're about to teach us can go across the board. It's not just special needs parenting. It's, it's what's happened politically in our world. It's what's happening. It's like, we can't disagree with each other anymore.
00:08:12
Speaker
It's all, it's like, you know, game
Authenticity and Communication Strategies
00:08:14
Speaker
it is right. And so um let let's get, let me give a little bit of history. um You know, Instagram came on the scene for me almost two years ago in March. And, ah you know, people ask me all the time, like, should i get on Instagram and start an account? I'm like, no, you should not.
00:08:32
Speaker
You know, ah and and I say that tongue in cheek, but like more or less if you're not ready for some things to happen personally to you, um if you don't have thick skin, and I really didn't know what that meant until getting into the world of social media, um then then, yeah, you could throw up a couple of videos. But if you're if they go and you start getting people who want to listen to you more, you're going to get opinions. And so if you're not ready for that, just don't do it But if the Lord calls you and says, i have a, i have a message on your heart, like you did mine, just how do we raise autistic disciples? If I'm, if Colin and I are navigating this, we know other people are. But what I wasn't ready for was the opinions about me as a person.
00:09:16
Speaker
um The comments about me, about my belief system, the the comments about how i my perspective was wrong. um And all these things. And I did not, I did not know how to filter it through my brain and my heart.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I would let some comments absolutely paralyze me to where I wanted to jump ship so many times. But... What the Lord was doing that season is showing me that it wasn't just the era of Instagram. It was the area of ah having previously served on a church staff where things were said about me and my character and my things. It was things ah where um ah even even other career moves, it was in friendships. It was in family members comments. It was in other things where I was continually letting
00:10:02
Speaker
The voices of other people determine what I thought about myself and what God was calling me to do. have so much to say. I'm excited. I'm about to let you just have it. ah And so friends, i got on a phone call with Barb as I was getting to know her and immediately she felt, not just felt, but was and is a safe place for me. um Barb, you know, i don't have to explain that to you how, how,
00:10:29
Speaker
what a blessing from the Lord that that space is for me and you. um So praise God that he sent you just the right time when I was navigating some stuff. And so Barb, asked you the question,
00:10:41
Speaker
I don't actually remember the exact question. I do know what is actually isn't what we're going to talk about ah specifically. But the first thing that you said to me was, Lyra, the Lord is not going to move you to your next assignment or to whatever the next step is in his in in his plan for you until you can but You can, you can, um you're, a I don't necessarily say okay with criticism, but I can navigate it healthily, healthily. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said that first and then we'll go into what the other thing.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. So this is funnily enough, this is a conversation I have on an almost daily basis with my 20 year old son. um so I don't know who else out there has like college age kids in this era of um social media, but they, a lot of them think when they see someone who's successful, that person got there immediately without any hard work any, and I explain to him all the time, listen,
00:11:41
Speaker
You have to keep working hard and you have to keep learning things and making mistakes before you you get to success. And you want that build up time, which a lot of times takes years because it matures you to the place where you can handle it. That's right.
00:11:55
Speaker
And so what I was saying to you was, I don't think that God will fully want to put you in a place where you have all of this influence, but also um people coming in with opinions until you're ready to handle it better. um Because if he put you there before you were ready, that would be bad for everybody.
00:12:17
Speaker
That's right. So we had talked about the preseason before the season is what we had talked about. That's what ah the preseason before the season. And I feel like I'm still in the preseason. um But I do think based on your your help and encouragement and and the the leadership help that you're helping me navigate through is is I can see the maturity because trials are a pathway to maturity. That's exactly right.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yeah. And so i can see the, even in the last three months, things that have, ah that where i I have not jumped to or spiral into this, like, whatever, fill in the blank.
00:12:53
Speaker
I've yet stopped and asked myself the question. And here it is. Are you ready for this? I that i have 10 minutes rambled on what Barb taught me. And so and then I'm going to let her have it. You told me, Barb, that I, when it comes to, I'm not trying to convince people. Right.
00:13:10
Speaker
I am just trying to offer or have them consider my, like I'm offering a lived experience in my perspective. I'm not trying to convince you that ah other than the gospel, other than i believe 100% your our autistic kid can know God, everything else, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just merely giving you my perspective. And that right there everything.
00:13:39
Speaker
changed so much for me so bart how did you get to that but tell it tell it that's lara roberts and and i'll kind of enter uh mix some of like how i got but how did you that framework that sentence how did you get there A couple of different things. So one of the things we talked about was when you are talking to someone who has a different, radically different opinion than you do, um we had said changing your objective from it's not you're trying to convince them, it's that you're just having a conversation. That's right. That's right. So if you have a successful conversation with someone, even if they never agree with what you're saying, that's still a success. And quite frankly, our society needs more of that. So it takes the conflict out. Now so you have achieved your goal if you guys are just having listening and learning from each other and giving each other space to talk. And then um I got there for a couple of different reasons. One is like we previously stated, I'm old. so
00:14:39
Speaker
like my Okay, leadership lesson number one, calculate the year when somebody says it and don't jump to the question. Like, I'm the idiot, Lara. Of course, she's a younger sister. Yeah, but um but I mean, I'm in my 50s. And so I lived before social media. And so when we had conversations with people, they were in person.
00:14:59
Speaker
There was this no, like, I'm just going to put something out there and hope nobody disagrees. You were literally talking. So you learn, I think, to listen. and then also you learn as you listen to people who have different opinions, you can take that back later and think about it. And and that's something we lose with social media because it's all instant.
00:15:19
Speaker
So there's that. And then um I worked for about seven years at my local church on the staff there before I ever started Wonderful Works. And I was the assistant to the lead pastor. So...
00:15:31
Speaker
I ah knew a lot of things happened there and heard lot of stories. And our pastor, who was a great mentor of mine, he would talk about when someone would come in and totally disagree with what the theology or what he was trying to say on Sundays. And sometimes people would want him to convince them why they should think differently.
00:15:51
Speaker
And he would say... There's nothing I can say that will convince you to change your mind. I can only share my experience. now he He could cite the Bible and he could tell all that stuff. But at the end of the day, facts and things and things in the Bible are not going to convince somebody. You know, people have to decide they want to be open. So he would just share his heart on the things he's seen and learned over the time. And and he would invite them to share their heart. And that really stuck out to me because what that is doing, it's not a checkmark that for like now we've got someone who now agrees with me, it is the beginning of a relationship. That's right.
00:16:28
Speaker
And so when we look at um differing opinions as an opportunity to build relationship, that changes everything. It also makes it, takes the stakes down for us that we have to defend what we're saying or we have to be the authority on everything. It's about listening, learning, respecting the other person, but also sticking to your guns. Like if you say, I...
00:16:52
Speaker
I agree. I see it this way.
Advocacy and Empathy in Conversations
00:16:55
Speaker
I see you have a different perspective. I do have a different perspective than you and that's okay. And I think that's what, that's where I was coming to you from a place of, I am so stinking tired of defending myself.
00:17:09
Speaker
Right. and and And I had to learn, too. And I kind of went on this trajectory for a little bit and bought some apologetic books and was like, obviously, raising autistic disciples on social media is an apologetics ministry. and And Barb, God did not wire me to... And when we say argue, it just means have a defense. Now, yes, have a defense of the gospel, of course. But I am not good at... ah First off, anybody that knows me can can tell you, Laura is Lara's not fast on her feet.
00:17:37
Speaker
Obviously, we know that by the 1962. Not only she not fast on her feet, she cannot do math. And so, but that's what I was experiencing is, and I will go ahead and this correlates so much with like ministry and and ah church attendance. And like, we as special needs parents are so absolutely tired.
00:17:58
Speaker
that when it comes to having to give a logical language, appropriate answer and defense, we're just so, our energy is so drained that it's just, it's absolutely. So, but that also helped me go, I'm not, okay, when I approach this situation, I am not trying to convince them of x Y, Z. I hope the Holy Spirit, if I, if he is, I mean, and he is directing me you advocate because that is that is his heart ah for my child to know God and and to be among the body. I don't have to convince them he will do that. All I have to do is is help them so just know, hey, here's here's our experience. Here's our story. So it just helped in so many different ways of me going. It's not it's not the energy of defending.
00:18:48
Speaker
It's not always being on the defense. it think it should never be about being on the defense. Here's what I think. I think, first of all, Don't try to be someone you're not.
00:19:00
Speaker
So when you talk about you're not wired for apologetics, someone else is not wired for apologetics is me. so Like um someone who doesn't do apologetics. This girl right here. yeah can we Can we take us out? Okay. If a paul if that word, it's it's basically those who are really good at it. And the social media is flooded. And there's some really amazing people who are doing it really well. um But like basically being able to give an articulate answer for for a like a, like a lofty theological answer. Now I do believe in, and I would be contradicting myself, but I wouldn't say that I do believe you need to understand your child and how they learn. And you need to understand autism. You to understand their, their diagnosis so that you can articulate it. That's not a project. I'm just talking about giving a defense to a certain issue. Yeah.
00:19:52
Speaker
Here's what saying. Take the word defense out because I think okay i think you're not defending. You're sharing what you're sharing. So when you start saying like, be ready for defense, already say just for one second, people listening, just say the word defend and then see how your body feels. and feel like That's exactly all. Yes. Because i'm I'm uptight right now. Look at your body. When you start with defense, immediately your body gets tense.
00:20:22
Speaker
So if you're trying to form relationship, because that's really the basis for a lot of things. You don't want to start in that. So change your perspective to you are sharing, right? So you should always know if you are saying something about the Bible or you're saying something about your child's diagnosis, you should always know why you're saying it and where you got your information from before you ever say it. Especially if you're in social media.
00:20:49
Speaker
So, but outside of that, you don't need to put this pressure on yourself. You have to defend everything because some were wired to be good debaters, right? You're fast on their feet and they can memorize the whole Bible. And other people were wired differently. So ask yourself, why did God wire you the way he did? What strength did he give you? And how do you build on those?
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Defense is out of our vocabulary. it's you It already sets you up for conflict. You can't have a defense without a conflict. So if you're trying to share your heart and, and bring people to Jesus and get people to understand that their autistic child can know Jesus,
00:21:32
Speaker
You want to do that. You want to take out as much conflict as you can from the beginning. Barb, how do I, how do I, um and we talked about this word too, compartmentalize. um How, but I am mama bear when it comes to my kid.
00:21:48
Speaker
So how how do you, i know through the power of the Holy Spirit, but how do you not feel like you're trying to get your point across? Because that it's we're so, we want them to be seen, we want them to be known. And I'm talking about all realms, right? but how So how do i take a breath and form that relationship knowing they they they're they're still not coming not coming over to my side, but like they're still not seeing my kid the way I want him to them to see him. Does that make sense? like how So I hear that, okay, let's get the defense out. or We're not trying to, but yet I still have this mama bear, God-given advocate protector of my kid who who they don't understand, basically. So where is the...
00:22:38
Speaker
I think it depends. I mean, I think there's different situations. So are you talking about in an advocacy meeting at school or at church? Are you talking about being on social media where you're talking to lots of people? I mean, there's different types of relationship based on where you are.
00:22:55
Speaker
yeah But always you start with, and this is hard, but you start with the golden rule. If you are on the other side, how would you want someone to treat you? and that And the thing I always ask, and so fun fact, my original career was in advertising. So advertising is like the study of persuasion. i call it the science of persuasion.
00:23:15
Speaker
And what they teach you in advertising is how do people receive information? So you're always starting out with thinking about how is the other person receiving it? So if if you go into something and you think, if I were on the other side, what would keep me open enough to listen?
00:23:32
Speaker
What would I receive something I didn't want to hear? And if you start there, it kind of changes the way you might approach something. And then, i so look yeah, good.
00:23:45
Speaker
I was going to say, for like the parts where it is, you got that mama bear. Well, you know that so you have to really do a lot of heavy prayer before, after, and during too.
00:23:55
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay. Let's, let's throw in a scenario here. Okay. Okay. So ah we're on social media. um Actually, let's two scenarios. Let's do, you know, just out there.
00:24:07
Speaker
doing our thing, either social media or in the world, and then we'll go church route. Cause those are the kind of two areas that, that where I'm seeing those of us who are navigating this experience, these two things. So social media, ah you put up a post or something like that, or you're interacting or whatnot, and you find yourself on the other side of a comment of, well, if you would pray for healing or you would pray more than your son wouldn't have autism.
00:24:35
Speaker
So now listen, this may be a stranger. it may not be, it may not be beneficial for you to enter in conversation. that That's a whole thing too. it was like deciding whether or not, um but say it is somebody that you like a high school friend that, you know, I mean, you have a relationship with you are connected over social media. How do you dialogue then with the, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just trying to give you my, ah i ask them, why do you think that?
00:25:04
Speaker
Okay. And then I listen and I would say, that's really interesting. i don't see it that way. Can I share how I feel? How I it. And then in a conversation and then um you leave that conversation. Maybe they don't agree with you in the moment. Maybe they'll go home and think about it for a week. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:25:25
Speaker
That's the other thing I think we need to remember in today's society. Gosh, I sound old, but in today's society where everything is instantaneous, we also want to convince people to agree with us instantaneously. But that's not how people work. They need time to process things.
00:25:40
Speaker
That's true. you're When you're having these conversations, you're planting seeds. That's true. And then you let that God do the rest of the work. That's right. Yeah.
00:25:51
Speaker
Oh, that's good. That's good. um Okay, so on the flip side, let's say, right off the top of my head, just having conversations with with others, um that there's a parent that approaches church leadership and says,
00:26:08
Speaker
i would really like to attend, you know, church. i haven't been able to in quite a while just because of accommodation purposes. I believe if you were to put up a swing or if you were to have a bubble machine in a room to provide sensory accommodations for my kid, I could probably stay in worship a whole lot longer and not be called out. Is that something that you can do?
00:26:31
Speaker
how How do you have that conversation and not completely just go into spiral mode of explaining? the why like How do you navigate that sort of thing? i think i think it's really important when you are asking for something to understand where the other side is coming from and see what can you do to help help move that along. Because if you come to say, I want all these things, I need all these things, you may be talking to people on the church side who have no idea how to give you those things.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah, right. So like maybe they don't have a budget for a swing. So but you say like, this is what is helpful. And this is um if I could talk to these people, if I could help you, how can I help you with this? That starts a bridge there. Okay.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah. So that that really is a key, though. We're trying to build bridges and not to not absolutely destroy them with how we approach conversations with each other.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it helps to give like a first step that a church feels like they could do. So what you might want to say would be, if um I really like to attend church, and if you had um a so like a quiet area and a bubble space, would it be okay if I came and talked to your um advisory team about about my needs? Because that takes it off of that person, that one person. Mm-hmm. thinking like, I don't know how to start a special needs ministry.
00:28:01
Speaker
Just saying, now we're going to invite other people in to help you. So maybe that first step. Or if we had like a little quiet area or something in a buddy, um I could stay. um and I can donate some things. or Something that makes that person feel less alone, i think is a good way in remembering, again, it's a relationship and it's building over
Managing Difficult Conversations
00:28:25
Speaker
time. It's not a yes or no right now.
00:28:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Okay, let's go a little bit more of a scenario that get that that may um may get way more tense than just advocating for maybe. What if you're told, ah you know your kid, this is just, he's just bad.
00:28:46
Speaker
This is just bad behavior. Okay, how do we take our, I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just trying to share with you, ah ah my story or what, how do we take what we know is not true, but yet, yeah, yeah, yeah just take it. I think it depends on the situation because is this a place where you have the option to go somewhere else?
00:29:09
Speaker
Or is a place you have to stay? Like, is this your school and you don't have any other options and you have to put this team? Or is this a place that um even after you talk to them, they're not going to get it, but you can just say, yeah, energy here. I'm going to try someplace else. I think you start there. Okay.
00:29:29
Speaker
And then all you can do is share your heart. And for me, okay, so there's what I'll say. For me, everyone's wired differently, but I am a Scotch-Irish-Appalachian artist.
00:29:42
Speaker
So... I love it. worked Right. Yeah. I know that about myself. And so if I have to have a difficult conversation, i'm going to start with trying to get into the best place possible to have it. So what I have learned about myself the hard way from when I have not done it well is I do it when I.
00:30:02
Speaker
Because there's a lot I've been in a lot of sensory things and I'm already like my sensory systems already up. And then if I have to have a hard conversation, it goes poorly. So I start with calm and start with prayer. And I always start if I know I have to have a difficult conversation, I'm calling five other people pray for me. And I am venting about it before I ever walk in that door. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:24
Speaker
And then I have people text to me like, okay, you got this. And so I'm going in already kind of like with putting the armor of God on like a lot of prayer, a lot of support, getting myself in a place, all the things I need. I want to make sure i've eaten well, I've slept well. I don't have like a lot of like loud music and start there and get through it. And then you can come home if you need to vent.
00:30:48
Speaker
ven And also know like when pay attention to your body in it. this what Yeah. So our bodies will tell us when we're on the verge of love losing it or going in a direction we're going to regret later.
00:31:03
Speaker
If you're feeling your body change, like as you're having conversation, it is okay to take time out and just say, hey, I need a minute for just a second. like And excuse yourself for a minute till you calm yourself back down. And then you come back in and and continue the conversation. Or if you feel like it's going to keep going off the path, you just say, hey, let's revisit this later when you are able to do it. Because you don't what you don't want to do, i mean, for me, is go and have a big blow up.
00:31:33
Speaker
And then now you have two problems. Now you have the original problem and you have to come back apologize for your, so you're coming in at a place of weakness. and And so do what you can to try to keep yourself calm.
00:31:46
Speaker
this is This is such a valuable conversation for all all areas. that We've talked about church and we've talked about, but what you were just saying, them what i what i what came to mind is just very, I get messages all the time with having conversations with your family.
00:32:03
Speaker
okay And so that's where we need the whole armor very quickly because as you said, it could it could we had we could end up having two problems on our hands, right? Well, so that's what I've learned. like not in So so um my brother has autism, but I'm not a special needs mom. So my experience is different.
00:32:23
Speaker
you know So I'm not going to say I know exactly what it feels like to be a special needs mom talking to your family that doesn't understand. i don't. But what I do know is I have a bad temper. And I have been married for 25 years. And what I learned was when before I had a plan for how to have difficult conversations or how to stop myself when things, you know, kind of ramp up is i would blow up and then would have to apologize. And then whatever it was that I was trying to get across, my point, which was valid, is now lost because the more important thing was the way I behaved.
00:33:00
Speaker
That's right. yeah And that took me like 10 years, 20 years to learn. And then I learned, hey, I need to get in front of that. So if you know you're going to have a difficult conversation, you get in front of that. That's what we're just talking about. If you're having one, you're not expecting.
00:33:17
Speaker
Pay attention to your body. Take a breather to go count down. Have things ready in your arsenal when things get reached up that you can pull out. So um some of the things you can do. For me, I'm a big mantra person. to have a lot of mantras. like Me too. yeah That when I need to take a breather, I can do some breathing and I can say to my myself, like, I can do hard things. I can do hard things. Or i can get through this moment.
00:33:44
Speaker
Whatever it is. um For other people, there's a technique called grounding, which helps bring you back down. And that is like if you're getting to that place where your whole nervous system is like getting into fight or flight, you know, mode, because you can't function well there and you should not be having hard conversations when your brain is up there. You can take a breather, excuse yourself. You can look around the room and you can say, um name five things you see in the room.
00:34:11
Speaker
You name four things that you um can hear in the room, three things you can touch in the room, two things, what are your other senses, you can smell in the room, and one thing you can taste. and When you go through all of your five senses like that, by that time, now your brain usually has come back down out of fight or flight.
00:34:31
Speaker
And you can take a deep breath, say a quick prayer, and you can go back in. you want to have these tools in your arsenal before you need them. That's really the key. Yes.
00:34:44
Speaker
Okay. With all that said, though, you know what I've discovered about myself and then corroborated with others on Instagram and and just this community that way? I don't think we give ourselves permission to do all those things in the moment.
00:34:58
Speaker
I think I think what goes in our mind or what we may have been conditioned to is especially with our family is I have to keep this going. I can't stop. I can't stop and take a breather. I can't, I can't pause this conversation. We have to keep going. We have to, you know, like, or like, it's, it's like, we don't, um we don't put those boundaries in place. So that further,
00:35:20
Speaker
miss further, further stuff doesn't happen. I think we we just tell ourselves there's a certain outcome that has to happen. and And those things, they have to, they have to wait. We can't pause. We can't. it Does that make sense? It does make sense. It's just not effective. Right. Another thing um you can look at is um this is called looking for the exception, right? So I'm giving you all my master's degree counseling. i love it. But yeah,
00:35:49
Speaker
is before you're going into a something like this, ask yourself, when did you have a conflict in your life that was really difficult, that went well? Are there?
00:36:00
Speaker
Why did I just go out? I don't know. Hold on a second, Barb.
00:36:12
Speaker
Did my camera? You can still hear me though, right? I can still hear you, yeah.
00:36:31
Speaker
the camera back here?
00:36:39
Speaker
Again?
00:36:54
Speaker
Am I back? Nope. Okay. Oh, there we are. I don't know what happened. Oh, well. Okay. ah Have you ever been in... Okay, what happened here?
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah. night So ask yourself, have you ever had a deep conflict in your life that went well, like it resolved well? Then ask yourself, what happened in those situations that was different from the times it went poorly? Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
So these are all things you need to do before you get into the conversations and just kind of learn as you go. Keep going. Sorry. Okay. Whoops. Okay.
00:37:31
Speaker
I messed there. Why'd you mess with anything? Okay. Okay. I'm not going to mess with anything anymore. Okay. Keep going. Okay.
00:37:42
Speaker
oh That was really... Okay. Start... I'm sorry. one more time. ah Have you ever found yourself in a difficult conversation... Yeah. So another thing you want to do is you want to ask yourself, excuse me.
00:37:55
Speaker
Hold on there. Can you wait one second? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We'll take a time out.
00:38:10
Speaker
Hopefully you edit this. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay.
00:38:18
Speaker
So another thing that helps when you're dealing with conflict is before you get into hard conversations is to ask yourself, have you ever had a big conflict with someone that went well, that it resolved well? And then look at what happened there that was different than what has happened in times when it has not gone well.
00:38:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That's called looking for the exception. um And so a lot of times, if you really like go back through your life, and you have to really dig deep, because the truth of the matter is, we often forget about the things that go well, because they're not stressful.
00:38:53
Speaker
So you might, at first blush, think like, well, I've never had this conversation go well before.
Feedback, Relationships, and Boundaries
00:38:58
Speaker
But you probably have, you just don't remember it, because you didn't worry about it and ruminate about it for three weeks, right? Right. Gosh, that's good. Yeah. So go back and say, what, how did this go well? And I think, ah you know, that will be different for each person. But I think some of the things that you're going to see is that it took time to resolve.
00:39:17
Speaker
It wasn't resolved in five minutes. It was never just one person talking and the other person nodding their head. Yes, you have convinced me. That's right. yeah and um And kind of seeing, okay, what can i learn here that I need to adapt?
00:39:35
Speaker
And then also in these hard conversations, you're going to keep going back to God and keep going back to God and praying and praying and praying. Sustain me in this moment. Help say what I need to say and help me listen to what I need to listen to. A big prayer that I have for myself, because again, like I'm i'm feisty, is um asking God, help me speak what I need to speak and help me be quiet when I need to be quiet. Amen. Amen.
00:40:06
Speaker
And then help me help me when i when I feel upset to get through it until there's space. And then giving people time to process things and following back up later if if that is appropriate.
00:40:20
Speaker
And again, you're talking about some, you have to use discernment. And this is something else you want to ask God for is what conflicts are worth continuing to pursue? What relationships are worth continuing to pursue? and which ones do I need to set down?
00:40:36
Speaker
Well, Barb, since you went there, go ahead tell us how we do that. Well, you ask. You ask. Like, you ask. You keep asking in prayer. Show me, Lord, your heart for me. um Help me to know what relationships and what things are worth pursuing. What things do I need to let go of? And I think when we have conflict and we have conversations with With people that they're saying things that are hurtful, that get us upset. Like one of the things I try to pray afterwards is, Lord, help me to know what I need to look at now, what I need to think about, and what I need to set down. Hmm.
00:41:17
Speaker
And I just keep going through that. And for me, and I think this is for most of us, that is a daily prayer for a while while I'm processing through it. And I'm inviting him to help me process through it. But also knowing that that it's okay to set some things down. Because sometimes people will tell you things that are ouchy, but you they are to your benefit. This happened to me recently couple of times.
00:41:39
Speaker
If I can put past my pride, um some of what people say, I really need to think about it. And maybe I need to change some things or maybe I need to consider other things. But then other things they say, really, they just don't know what they're talking about.
00:41:55
Speaker
Right. need to put those down and I don't have to carry those things. Right. oh it's It's understanding that there's a little bit of both sometimes. Right. Right. I think it was you that I was talking to this about a particular situation. And it it was with someone who I thought was, um I thought would have would have been a like good for me, like like mentor wise or a few steps ahead, but I always left conversations feeling shame.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was good. i I had that happen recently, too. And I always felt like, and I'm like, oh, but I want her to be in my life. Like, I want her to be that because i don't know. i mean, I just, but yet, I always after several conversations, this is like four or five, maybe even six conversations. I always felt like even, even me asking questions, the answer that I got was, oh, you I can't believe you do that.
00:42:51
Speaker
so oh that And i I like shame, like ah constantly. And that's when I was like, wait a second here. I am I am running after a relationship that constantly makes me feel like I'm doing a horrible job at whatever. That's not that that's not healthy, nor is that someone I want speaking into me and taking up.
00:43:12
Speaker
brain space that is just not, you know, not because because what you were saying before, like, like, when I leave you, i am encouraged. And you also gave me something for my benefit. That was maybe an ouchie. But I could take that because I know you love me. And I know you're a safe place. And I know that yeah, absolutely for my benefit and good and for my growth. But but some other conversations that I've Like encouragement is not even in the cards, in the conversation. And so that should be an indication. That's not, that's one I can lay down.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think if you're always leaving with shame, that is a red flag, something is wrong. And so one thing, because I had this happen to me recently where I left a hard conversation um and I felt ashamed and I got home and i was like, oh my gosh, like, why am I feeling ashamed? And so then I had to ask myself this question.
00:44:10
Speaker
Do I have anything that this person brought up that I need to repent for? ah And the answer was no, no. Like the the conversation was about some, maybe I could have done some things better.
00:44:22
Speaker
You know, maybe I made some mistakes in some things, but there was no sin involved. Right. And then I thought, I need to lay the shame down. There's no, I'm not, I'm not having to come to God and say, forgive me for not being smart enough. Yeah. Right. So you lay that down. And I said and I think if you are in a relationship where you're always coming back from with shame, which is not which is misplaced, you should not leave those conversations feeling shamed. Then, yeah, you either need to have a hard conversation with that person and say, hey, did you realize though that the way we are talking?
00:45:00
Speaker
i I leave feeling ashamed. This is hard for me. can we Can we work on this differently? Or you just need to say, maybe this isn't a person I want to keep inviting into my life in a big role.
00:45:12
Speaker
We can still be friends and cordial and and it's okay, but maybe I can give more space ah to other people. I remember it now. i don't I think I sent you the picture of the circles that I drew. Because in my mind, visually, I had to draw circles of who I let into my... um sphere of influence.
00:45:32
Speaker
and So I drew circles of of course, you know, the Lord and then Colin, ah my mom, family members that are safe. And then the I drew another circle and then put my my mentors and you and things like that. And then the outside circle of those that are, you know, friends and and people. But then the other outside circle is like, you know, the far outside, friends, acquaintances, people, and people on social media, strangers that I do not know, that do not, are not in small group with me, that do not know my heart.
00:46:03
Speaker
They don't get to influence or even have space in my mind, in my heart of, you know, and absolutely. I'm a child of God. he he is who i what what he thinks about me is, is what I, I um care about the most. And so, yeah, so drawing the circles and then going, okay, this is my visual filter of,
00:46:25
Speaker
who I let influence and who I let say the ouchies because they have been tested safe and they have been tested that they love me and that they are ah they want to see me grow um both in Christ likeness and as a individual and so um yeah so that that if that may be helpful go draw you some circles friends listening and And those people that are safe, that have proven and tested that they can keep information safe. Number one, they can keep you information, not go spread it. And two, that they love you. That is known and that they they are concerned about your growth as as a follower of Christ and as ah a person. And so, bar thank you for being one of those for me. Go ahead.
00:47:09
Speaker
You're welcome. I want to stop here for a second because everything you just said is true. And everything you just said also flips the other way. When we're having hard conversations with other people, for it to be effective, we have to be safe for them. That's exactly right.
00:47:26
Speaker
And so that's what also when you're having these conversations, when you're bringing God into helping you with it, it's like, help me to be able to hear them. and to be safe for them too Because you want someone to partner with you on something for a change,
00:47:44
Speaker
towards change, then you have to be someone they feel like they can do that with. That, and just want to go back real quick to wonderful works. um That is a hallmark of our ministry is we felt like it's a lot of churches out there who have done a really bad job with disability inclusion and ignoring people with disabilities. But when the message from the ministries is you're doing a bad job, do better.
00:48:10
Speaker
yeah But it's hard for those churches to feel safe enough to to be vulnerable to say we need help. Yeah, that's right. So part of what Wonderful Works Ministry tries to do is say, we believe you as a church want to do better and we will help you. And I think that has made it a lot easier for churches to come and start that process. And that's the same in any relationship.
Effective Ministry and Trust Building
00:48:33
Speaker
That's We have to be safe too. That's right. And that goes back to what you were saying before is entering that conversation, not defensively, uh, as a special needs parent is, is we all want to be told we're doing a good job. And so you don't want to start off a conversation and totally blast. And this is what you're not doing. this is what you're not doing. And that again, like you're saying, that's no way to form a partnership or relationship or build a bridge.
00:48:56
Speaker
And so um it just doesn't, it's it's not effective. So right another thing that I learned from my life, um, So one of my kids did have some um medical challenges when he was young. And my husband and i we got we had a doctor's appointment. We'd waited months for this specialist.
00:49:15
Speaker
And I got in there and I spent the almost the whole time venting. And then by the time i was in venting, the appointment was almost over. And we left and we didn't get anywhere. helpful And we left them and my husband was like, you wasted that whole appointment we waited for for months venting.
00:49:32
Speaker
The people, if you really are are talking to a change agent, whether it's a doctor or a counselor or one not but a doctor or a teacher or a ministry leader, they have a finite amount of time they can give you. And if you spend it all venting on why they're terrible, you've just wasted your opportunity. That is so true.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yeah, you thank Brandon for that. He pointed that out. And he was right. like I hate it when you're right. But yeah what's right he was right. was right. And um what I learned from that is, okay, we're all human, right? So these are really emotional things. It's not reasonable to say, i just going to pray to God once to help me, and then I'm not going to feel emotional about it. You're going emotional about it. Get it out with that those trusted friends that you were just talking about.
00:50:19
Speaker
Before you go and after you go and you're prepared to use whatever time if you're going into like a meeting, use that time well. Yes.
00:50:32
Speaker
Gosh. ah Another gold leadership and just all the above moments with Barb Stanley, man. Okay, so Barb.
00:50:43
Speaker
Wrapping it kind of all up, there's going to be podcasts. and There's going to I mean, those listening will have conversations either, you know, we'll all have, we're all having conversations constantly if we're hopefully ah in community with people. um But these conversations that I'm having ah with different issues and um i mean, we're going be talking about gentle parenting. We're going to be talking about all all these complex, like, I don't know where I,
00:51:09
Speaker
if we just go into and, and me as a, as a interviewer to go into it with, I'm not trying to convince you of anything and giving the other person on the other side of like this call, the permission to, you know, let's just have a conversation. So that's our framework for the rest of this season of this podcast is Barb Stanley's gold statement, but framework also for us helping as believers, um,
00:51:35
Speaker
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. i' I'd just love for you to consider my experience and my story. So with all that said, how would you have us listen well with this this framework that you've you've offered us?
00:51:52
Speaker
Well, you start with curiosity. You listen well when you're actually curious. So if you're listening and you're just waiting to to give you a rebuttal, then you're doing it wrong.
00:52:04
Speaker
so yeah What part of being, and I always go back to being effective, but I i do love leadership coaching. and I'm always going about what is effective. What is effective is when you understand who you're trying to reach and you will never understand them if you're not curious as to why they think the way they do.
00:52:24
Speaker
So you ask more questions. Why do you think that? That's right. Get there. And then listen with curiosity and then also share share your opinion. So it's not just giving someone's giving, saying something you don't agree with. It's also it's having that back and forth conversation because you want them to be curious to with you too. Like why? That's right.
00:52:46
Speaker
So that's right that conflict out. And then just in general, no matter what you're doing, um always start with audience of one. So the only approval you need to get is from God. That's right.
00:52:58
Speaker
right So this is something um i think about all the time in my own ministry is, am I doing what God wants me to do? Yes or no. And so that is a question I constantly have to um keep praying about to God. Am I doing what you want me to do? Even if it doesn't look like it's,
00:53:16
Speaker
look like it's um as good as someone else's or i'm not as successful as someone else yes or no if if i'm doing what you want me to do going to keep doing it and if i feel like i'm not doing what you what you want i'm doing something you don't want me to do then i want to stop doing it that's right i think we start with that posture that we don't have to get someone's approval we just need to ask are we doing this in a way that is um you know, pleasing to God. Are we doing that? That's right.
00:53:45
Speaker
And part of that goes back to the golden rule too. So I think when we ask ourselves, is how we're doing something pleasing to God, you always go back to that golden and rule, treat others the way you would want to be treated. And also here's something that, that will end on too, Barb, that I've had to learn the hard way. I'm not somebody else's Holy Spirit.
00:54:01
Speaker
Right. And they're not mine. So so here's what what what's going to happen in these conversations in the future podcast is I firmly well firmly is probably not the right word I want to use here. I am open handed, but yet I believe that autism is a neurotype from birth.
00:54:20
Speaker
but I'm willing to learn others perspective on it because if they don't believe the same way I do, then I have to, if they're believer, they've placed their faith in Christ and they have the indwelling Holy spirit. He may be using them in arenas that I'm not in because I don't, I don't have that particular belief that he is, he has given me to, to walk in more my perspective, but he has given them because this is all, ah um some of these things are mysteries, right? Like some of these things but maybe,
00:54:47
Speaker
They're in the political arena to be able to figure some things out. Maybe. but could Maybe to be able to be used by God to to draw others to him. I'm in this one. So that the same. And so I just I do want to be careful as I'm as I'm talking to these people is even though I don't maybe share the same belief.
00:55:09
Speaker
the Holy Spirit is still using us in different areas for his glory and our good. And we should be encouraging each other for and to go forth and make disciples where he has us.
00:55:23
Speaker
So it all started this this whole this whole season of 2026 Conversations with Barb Stanley's wisdom and grateful to the Lord for you and how you, man, you are a cheerleader and a um you you want to see others.
00:55:40
Speaker
you You, Barb, want to see others impact the kingdom for God's glory. And you are doing that by one gold nugget of encouragement and leadership coaching at time. i can't thank you enough, sister friend. um Thank you for doing that for so many. If you could tell listeners, special needs moms, dads, caregivers, even church leaders, but but if you could tell us raising autistic disciples one last thing for today, what would it be?
00:56:08
Speaker
I tell you, your story matters. m Tell it in a way that people can hear it. Praise the Lord. that Again, so good. Absolutely. For those of you listening, your story does matter. And friend, keep raising autistic disciples for God's glory. And you're good. Thank you for listening today, Barb. Thanks for being with us.
00:56:30
Speaker
Thanks for having me.