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187 Plays4 years ago
Ang Lee's Hulk was pretty much despised by everyone when it came out—except our hosts. Perry and Derrick dive into why they like this unappreciated gem of superhero cinema, address the clear flaws it has, and how it's aged over time and influenced other superhero movies since. But one thing we can all agree on—that climax was incomprehensible.
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Transcript
Introduction and Audible Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, Derek, guess what? Hit me with it. We just got a promotion with Audible. Audible, fantastic. I love Audible. Do you know what the cool thing about this deal is? What's that? If our listeners go to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod, they get a free trial with Audible. And do you know what they get with that?
00:00:22
Speaker
What do they get with that? Tell me. They get one free audiobook of their choice and they get two free Audible Originals, which is special content that Audible makes available free for all its subscribers. Are you kidding me? That deal is so good I may go myself and sign them. Do you think they let you keep the books after you're done?
00:00:42
Speaker
No, you're not gonna tell me they let you keep the books after you're done. Yes, in fact, you can go sign up for a trial and you can cancel before the trial ends and you get to keep the books you've already downloaded.
Superhero Audiobook Recommendations
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, I don't see how you can beat that with a stick. Exactly, yeah. And you can, lots of great books, especially for fans of the show. You can listen to Super Gods by Grant Morrison, which is all about like how the superhero comics have changed and evolved over time. Or you can check out Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. Which is a terrific book. I have that both in hardcover and I listened to that on Audible myself in my car while traveling back and forth.
00:01:21
Speaker
And there's also another similar book that's called Slugfest, which is about like the wars between Marvel and DC Comics. Oh, okay. So that's another one you got to check out too. So yeah, head on over to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod and start your free trial right now. You got one free audio book and two free audible originals and you can keep them even if you cancel before it's over.
Emotional Damage and Nanomits
00:02:03
Speaker
I think that somehow your anger is triggering the nanomits. How could it? We designed them to respond to physical damage. Emotional damage can manifest physically. Like what? Serious trauma. Repressed memories.
00:02:37
Speaker
that happened to me from early childhood that I'm supposed to remember. He did? It sounded bad, but I honestly don't remember. The thing that worries me is a physical wound is finite. But with emotions, what's to say that it won't just go on and on and start a chain reaction?
00:03:10
Speaker
You know what scares me the most? Is it when it happens? When it comes over me and I totally lose control. I like it. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast.
Hosts Introduce Themselves and Discuss Chaos
00:03:28
Speaker
I am half of your host, Perry Constantine. And as always, I am the other half, Derek Ferguson.
00:03:34
Speaker
Derek, what the hell, I feel like Hawkeye in in Civil War right now, because you remember that scene. Well remember that scene when he comes in he says I retired for five minutes and all goes to shit. Well we take a week off, and you know next thing we know there's a there's a friggin outbreak in the White House.
00:03:52
Speaker
I mean, you know, the past week, the week started with, as I recall, because it seems like a lifetime ago, it started with the revelation that Trump had paid any taxes. Right.
Trump's Presidency Chaos
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. And then we went to that shit show of a debate. Oh, my God. You know what? That that day when it came out, because, you know, I got to walk the it's on in the morning here for me.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I had to work all day, right? I had classes in the morning, I had class in the afternoon, I had like a short break, I had like a three hour window and then I had a class at night. And so I was asking people on Facebook, I'm like, so should I just watch the debate in this three hour window I've got before I gotta go back to work or should I wait till I can come home and I can actually drink? And everyone's like, wait until you can get home, you're gonna need all the alcohol to watch this. Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
00:04:45
Speaker
Definitely. I mean, that was, and then we finished the week with Trump himself catching, you know, the COVID and being rushed to the hospital. Yeah. And then, and then spreading it to everybody else, like a playground. Yeah. You know what?
00:05:04
Speaker
It is really amazing. This whole Trump presidency, Trump has survived shit that would have destroyed the career of any other normal politician. Oh God, yeah. You know, back in the beginning when he was talking about grabbing women by the hoo-ha, that would have been it for anybody else. Anybody else would have been gone. Or insulting John McCain, right? Yeah. Who was a sacred cow of the Republican party up until that point.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, no matter what it is, he's like the energizer bunny. He just survives any other scandal that would utterly destroy the career of any other politician on the planet. But I mean, that's been his brand all his life. I don't know how he is the luckiest son of a bitch on earth.
00:05:52
Speaker
Well, yeah. And again, as I've told people, because I told people when he was running for president, you know, that, yeah, people here in New York, we always knew Trump was crazy because he was crazy back then. Donald Trump has not changed since the 80s, mind you. This is the same exact guy that ran for president. So we knew
00:06:13
Speaker
what the rest of the country was just waking up
Jamie Foxx as Electro and Spider-Verse Speculation
00:06:16
Speaker
to. They didn't know Donald Trump, but we know him. And Rudy Giuliani, we knew he was crazy. Yeah, I remember I was watching a Netflix has this documentary series called Trump and American Dream or something like that. And it's like all about like his rise and like the 70s and the 80s and his bankruptcies and all that. And I'm sitting there and I'm watching it and like listen to the,
00:06:39
Speaker
the footage of him on TV. And I'm like, how did people not know he was crazy back then? Yeah. Oh, we know. Well, you guys knew. Yeah. I'm talking about the rest of the country. Oh, yeah. Well, see, but see back then, first of all, there was no internet back then. There was no internet. And Trump was like a local New York
00:06:56
Speaker
I mean you know celebrity you know he wasn't like known like all across the country here in New York yeah because this was his base this is where he was at and he was primarily Trump was Trump was always into the entertainment thing because he always hung out if you look at videos okay if you look at music videos from back in the 80s you see Donald Trump appears in a whole lot of them. Oh yeah I remember reading about that. Yeah he shows up in a bunch of videos
00:07:21
Speaker
And there was even rappers that include, you know, bragged about them and their lyrics and their association with them and everything like that. You know, so yeah, but I mean, oh, yeah, we knew Donald Trump was crazy back then. Yeah. But, you know, he stuck to entertainment. Right. Yeah. He never got into politics. I said, once he got into politics, I said, OK.
00:07:43
Speaker
Now he's stepping out of his lane. But now, apparently, what they're saying is that he got into politics because he owed, because, you know, there was so much money. But I heard this story. I don't know how true it is, and I promise folks we're gonna get to the movie. So, in a minute. I heard this story that because the ratings on The Apprentice, the celebrity apprentice were dropping,
00:08:08
Speaker
And Donald Trump had actually went to NBC and, you know, he talked to the suits and he said, well, why don't we do this? Why don't I run for president next season?
00:08:20
Speaker
and we can do the show from the Oval Office, you know, the West Wing. And that was his eye. And apparently, you know, the suits were, you know, laughing and they said, yeah, that's a good one. Donald Trump was, you know, he was serious. Yeah, yeah. Like Michael Cohen said, right? He doesn't tell jokes. He doesn't have a sense of humor. No, he doesn't. He doesn't. If you ever know if you've never seen Donald Trump laugh,
00:08:44
Speaker
No, no. He has that goofy grin on his face, that smile, but you've never seen him actually laugh. And I heard variations on that as well, not necessarily that it was like he talked to the execs to NBC, but basically that he ran for president as a media stunt.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard that as well. And when you look at how he ran for president, it makes sense. And you look at how terrified he looked when he actually won.
00:09:15
Speaker
It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That's all. Well, there have been people that have said that, yeah, that they were in the room with him and Milani was arguing and he was telling Milani, listen, there's no way in the world I'm going to win. There's no way I'm, you know, don't, cause Milani wasn't down with this shit from the beginning. She didn't want to be bothered with it. And Darwin kept telling him, no, don't worry about it. He said, who's going to like me president? Yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
Once again, never underestimate the American public. God damn. Oh my God. But anyway, in some more pleasant news, there was an interesting casting announcement in the past week as well.
Live-Action Spider-Verse Possibilities
00:10:01
Speaker
Guess who's coming back to the Spider-Verse?
00:10:05
Speaker
Did you hear about this? Jamie Foxx. Oh, playing Electro. Yeah, he's coming back and he's gonna be playing Electro in the third Spider-Man movie, which is interesting choice, because it opens up a lot of different possibilities. So I'm wondering, is this third movie gonna be a Spider-Verse movie?
00:10:26
Speaker
Uh, the popular theory is that between this Spider-Man movie and of course, Doctor Strange and the multiverse of man, it's supposed to open up. And also WandaVision as well. Right. And WandaVision is supposed to open up a Marvel multiverse. Yeah. That's the, that's the popular theory that I've heard. And yeah, it seems to me that
00:10:54
Speaker
you know, they're going in because unless they are trying to establish that this Spider-Man we have now is the same as he was in the Allen Garfield. He was in Andrew Garfield. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Which I don't, I, I doubt that because they got a whole different
00:11:14
Speaker
Uh, it's just there there are too many differences in those two for that to happen. Okay. It's been a while since I've seen it. So forgive my lapse of memory. It's been a while since I've seen it. So I, I didn't really remember. I do remember they had, uh, what's his name playing the rhino? Oh yeah. Uh, Paul Giamatti. Well, Jim, yeah. Now him, I wouldn't mind seeing again. Yeah. Like a lot of people.
00:11:37
Speaker
despise the Amazing Spider-Man 2, or then, you know, even both those movies. I actually like them. Like, I don't like the Jim Carrey-esque portrayal. They started off with Jamie Foxx, where he's like obsessed with Spider-Man, just like Jim Carrey's Ed Nighbo was obsessed with Bruce Wayne. That part I could have done without. But other than that, like I did not, I liked the movie. I thought it was a pretty decent movie.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that, you know, and I think that's why Tom Holland, I think that he took the best of
00:12:14
Speaker
Garfield and the best of Tobey Maguire. Yeah. And he kind of put them together and put his own spin on it because Tobey Maguire was a good Peter Parker, but he wasn't, I didn't care if I'm a Spider-Man. Yeah. And Garfield, he was a good Spider-Man, but I didn't care for him as Peter Parker. Exactly. Yeah. You know, yeah. But this kid, Tom Holland, he seems to, you know, have synthesized
00:12:41
Speaker
the best aspect of both of those actors and mix them together and put his own unique spin on it to come over. Sometimes I think he comes across just as a little bit too manic. Like, you know, like I want to tell kids, you know, like slow down, you know, but hey, you know, it is what it is. He'll grow into the role.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, but, um, so I'm, I'm really curious because I know, uh, who was it? Someone at, I think it was, what was your name? Amy Pascal. Is she the one at Sony?
00:13:16
Speaker
Anyway, whoever the woman is in charge of Sony, I think it's Amy Pascal, but I might be wrong. Yeah, yeah, I think this sounds familiar. Yeah, so apparently, I mean, after the success of Into the Spider-Verse, she apparently said that she was interested in doing a live action version. And that meant that would mean like getting back Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland to play other universe versions of Spider-Man, which, and with Jamie Foxx now being in it, that,
00:13:44
Speaker
seems to suggest that we might be going down that road. Yeah. Well, like I said, it seems to me like Marvel is definitely going to be exploring this whole multiverse type of thing. And it should be interesting. I'm wondering if they're doing that as a way of bringing it. Because I heard that they were exploring the possibility of maybe having Tom Cruise as the alternate world Tony Stark.
00:14:13
Speaker
Oh, that would be interesting. Yeah, yeah, I heard that. It's still a rumor, folks, mind you. Right, yeah, yeah. But yeah, but you know what? It's even more intriguing when you think of that one time that, yeah, Tom Cruise was seriously considered for the role. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, they did think they were thinking of giving it for the game, of course, to Robert Downey Jr. Yeah, Tom Cruise is like, OK, he's the guy.
00:14:38
Speaker
Right. And there are lots of I mean, there's enough Marvel stuff out there where you could bring back some of these guys just like DC is done with with first with crisis and now with the Flash movie with Michael Keaton coming back. But you could there's also a lot of stuff we could do that with Marvel like you could have like
00:14:56
Speaker
Lou Ferrigno come back as the Hulk or you know Eric Bana come back as Bruce Banner or yeah lots of different possibilities, and which is actually the lead in because that's the movie we're going to be talking about today. But before we jump into that there's also something else I think this just makes me happy.
00:15:16
Speaker
I love Brooklyn Nine-Nine, right? That show is hilarious. And one of my favorite things about that show is when Craig Robinson guest stars because he plays this career criminal who thinks of Andy Samberg's character, Jake, the cop is his best friend. And he's always like, he's always playing pranks on him and always like convincing him he's reformed and the running joke is then he hasn't. He actually goes back and screws him over in the end.
00:15:43
Speaker
But yet he's hilarious. And the two of them have this awesome chemistry. It's just really fun to watch them together. And now they're gonna be doing a superhero movie together. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. It's gonna be Andy Samberg, Craig Robinson, and Common. And they're gonna be in a movie called Super High, where they play superheroes who get powers through smoking weed.
00:16:12
Speaker
Oh my God. I'm sure Myth and Man is in it. Myth and Man didn't write this movie. Snoop Dogg. I'm taking a look. Doesn't look like he has a director or anything attached to it, but you know what? It's got Sandberg in it, it's got Robinson, and it's got Common, so I'm on board for that. Like if this was, this is the kind of idea that it seems like it's gonna, it'll probably be a stupid movie, but those guys together will make an entertaining movie. Yeah, but it'll be a funny, stupid movie. Yeah, yeah.
Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Superhero Comedy
00:16:42
Speaker
That's a show I actually have to get back into because I watched it when it was on Fox and I started watching it because the outside of that precinct that they always show. Yeah, yeah. That's right around the block from me. Oh, right. Yeah, it's about like two, three blocks away from me. That precinct that they always show that's supposed to be, you know, the 99. Yeah. It's right about like two, three blocks away from me. So that's what made me start watching the show. And then it went to another network.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Then it went, I think that's when it went to, I think it went to Hulu after that or something like that. Someplace like that. But I know when it left, cause it started out on Fox. Oh, that's right. I think it went to NBC. And went to NBC, right? Okay. That's when I stopped watching. But I always say I got to get back to watch it. Cause I, cause I thought it was hilarious show. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really not an Andy Samberg fan, but you know, yeah. He warned me over with this one. Yeah. I did not care about him at all until I saw started watching the show.
00:17:38
Speaker
But I think also because since it's an ensemble show, that helps a lot. It's one of those rare comedy shows where you like the entire cast. Yeah, exactly. I like everybody. It's not like, okay, but I can't stand this guy. I can't stand everybody on there is funny. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so anything else you wanna jawjack on before we talk about the movie?
00:18:09
Speaker
Nah, I think we enjoyed Jacked Enough. All right, so this is your
Analysis of Superhero Films and Marvel's Storytelling
00:18:13
Speaker
pick. I'm pretty sure, yeah, it was your pick. Take a week off and I'm forgetting everything. And that was- Yeah, it was my pick. As a matter of fact, I am the only person that would probably pick this movie. Well, no, see, that's the thing, because you and I are unique and we're probably, you know, two of the five people who actually like this movie.
00:18:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you know what? I've gotten to the point where I no longer argue with people. Well, you know me. I don't argue with people anyway about movies, period, because life is too short. You know, you like what you like. You know, I don't get into these life or death battles with people over movies and stuff like that, if you don't like them. And
00:18:54
Speaker
Let me say this, when people tell me why they don't like this movie, you know what, I get it. I understand it's not a perfect movie and there are parts of it that make me cringe. But overall, taken as a whole, this is an ambitious
00:19:11
Speaker
effort that to me it's a very worthy movie. That's the ambitious is definitely a good word for it and you know sometimes it hits that mark sometimes it lives up to that ambition other times you know it there are times when it kind of falls just short of it and there are also times when it just falls flat on its face. Yeah
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah, but, you know, I'm the type of person that I appreciate a movie that swings for the fences, and even if it misses, it tried, and it tried, and it tried with style and respect.
00:19:49
Speaker
When you get down to it, this is an art house superhero movie. So if you're not up for art house superhero movie, then you're not gonna like it. But as I have, I believe I probably said in the course of us doing this and we've done 30 something episodes. So I figure I have said it at some point. My thing is, is that
00:20:11
Speaker
The one thing I like about the Marvel movies is that they tailor the different, it's not like a formula. Well, you know what, it is a formula, but it's a formula that is adjusted for each different character. Right. And this whole movie, even though it's not like considered to be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe,
00:20:33
Speaker
I think that it could still fit in there, but also it's tailored for the character because Hulk doesn't necessarily have to be fighting supervillains like other, you know, characters, you know. It's not like he wakes up, he has superpowers and he goes out and says, he's gonna fight crime. He's not that type of character. And this movie reflects that, I think.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's something. Also something else about, and something you said in there was you were talking about how this could fit into the MCU. That was actually the original plan. When Zach Penn came on to write the script for The Incredible Hulk, he wrote it as a sequel to this movie. And you can see there are traces of that, right? Like it opens with Banner in South America,
00:21:24
Speaker
Right. Exactly. He's already been the Hulk and everything, but then when Edward Norton came on he rewrote the script to make it a complete reboot. And so, so that's why if you watch them back to back you can see where they don't fit together. And those are mostly Edward Norton's changes so Norton had the new
00:21:42
Speaker
So Norton made the change we're in, in this movie, Bruce and Betty are working on their own they're working for for Berkeley, but in the, in the, in the Incredible Hulk they were working for shield and trying to develop the new super soldier serum. Right. And then.
00:22:02
Speaker
he had chosen to experiment on himself. It was a conscious decision. It wasn't like in this movie where it was an accident. And the other thing too that I remember was when he first changes into the Hulk in front of Betty on the college campus, Ross says, you know, now she'll understand, right? And that was kind of a hint as like, you know, she hadn't seen him transform into the Hulk before. Only Ross had seen him.
00:22:30
Speaker
So yeah, so they made those changes, but there's still a lot of that DNA from this movie in The Incredible Hulk, like the South America scene, like him already being the Hulk and being chased by Ross, and also the Betty being a scientist. That was something they introduced in this movie.
00:22:48
Speaker
There's a lot in this, okay, there's a lot that if you close one eye to it, you can still squeak this in as part of the MCU. Like I said, if you wanna close one eye and say, okay, I'm not gonna look at that, and it could still squeak in there, which I like to think is part of it because, okay, the Hulk has been played by three actors, but it's unique in that,
00:23:15
Speaker
There's nothing in their performances that contradict what the other guy does. I can see all of these, these three guys, they're three different actors, but I can easily see them. They're all the same guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like Batman where, okay, Michael Keaton. Okay. You got him. You got Val Kilmer. Val Kilmer, who is kind of doing Michael Keaton. You can see, but George Clooney and Christian, they're totally different guys. Right.
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's not the same thing with the Hulk I could see, you know, Mark Ruffalo and Edward Norton and Eric banner. I look at them. Yeah, they're all Bruce Banner. Yeah, and different and different stages in his life, depending on, you know, where we find him at, like when we catch him when he's with the Avengers and
Ang Lee's Directorial Style and Hulk
00:24:03
Speaker
stuff like that. He's completely.
00:24:05
Speaker
become comfortable being the Hulk. But in the previous two movies, he's still learning how to deal with being the Hulk. Especially in the Edward Norton one, which I really like that we see that he's in the yoga and meditation and all that other kind of stuff. Yeah. And this movie had a...
00:24:25
Speaker
long development time because it came out in 2003 but they had started working on trying to bring the Hulk to back to the big screen like back in the early as far back as the 1990 and I remember one time in I think it was like the mid late 90s Wizard magazine did an article about like upcoming movies and one of them was
00:24:46
Speaker
a planned Hulk movie, which was supposed to star Johnny Depp as Bruce Banner. Oh, yeah. I heard about that. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. And which, you know, Depp back then in that role, that would have been interesting. Johnny Depp is an interesting actor in that when you talk about Johnny Depp,
00:25:08
Speaker
Okay folks, here comes the first digression of the episode. When you talk about Johnny Depp, you have to think of Johnny Depp as pre-Pirates of the Caribbean and post-Pirates of the Caribbean because you talk to people now who only know him
00:25:24
Speaker
from the Tim Burton movies and from the Pirates movies. And when you tell them that at one time Johnny Depp was spoken of with the same reverence as the actor that we talk about Marlon Brando and James Dean and Al Pacino and they look at you for what that guy is? Yeah, that guy, you know, that guy. At one point he was, I think he was in talks to play Dr. Strange and thinking about
00:25:53
Speaker
And when I think about him, like in, what was that movie you did with Roman Polanski, The Ninth Gate? Oh, that was a terrific, I love it. Oh great, totally underrated movie. Oh man, as a matter of fact, that's one of my movies that I watched, you know, in this month of October leading up to Halloween, there's a bunch of horror movies that I always watch and The Ninth Gate is one of them. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker
you know, great underrated movie. If you've never seen that movie, you know, do yourself a favor and go rent that this weekend. But, and you look at him in that movie and he looks just like Dr. Strange. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. You can easily see why. You look at him, you say, yeah, okay.
00:26:39
Speaker
he could be Dr. Frank. Yeah, yeah. So that would have been, and it would have been interesting to see him playing Bruce Banner too, because even though he's, you know, probably a bit too handsome to play Bruce Banner, I could definitely see him being able to really dig into that character, especially back then.
00:26:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's back when he was Johnny Depp. And like I said, he was looked upon as being, you know, America's, you know, next big, you know, like actor. Like I said, people used to talk about him in the same breath that they talked about Marlon Brando and Jimmy Dee and Al Pacino. And, you know, yeah. There was a time when I would have, when you asked me who my favorite actor was, without hesitation, I would have said Johnny Depp. Now, I would not say that.
00:27:26
Speaker
But then, like I said, but that was before Pirates of the Caribbean and before you took Tim Burton. He became like a totally different actor after that. A lot of people forget that he was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actor for playing Jack Sparrow in the first Pirates movie. He was nominated for Best Actor.
00:27:50
Speaker
So, but anyway, back to the Hulk. So Jonathan Hensley was involved and he was attached to direct for a long time. He or he was attached as a producer. And then they also brought in Joe Johnston from Captain America, the first Avenger. He was brought on to direct, but then he dropped out in 97 to direct October Sky instead. And
00:28:18
Speaker
Hulk was going to be Hensley's directorial debut, but that fell through. And people like, you know, JJ Abrams at one point was brought on to rewrite the script back in the late 90s. And then eventually Hensley went out and then Michael Frantz came on board and then that kind of fell through as well.
00:28:45
Speaker
At one point, he says that there may have been discussions about turning it into a Jim Carrey or Adam Sandler movie. And then eventually that fell through, thankfully. And then Ang Lee was brought on because Ang Lee was riding high after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
00:29:03
Speaker
And so he was brought on. And I remember people were getting angry on the message boards and stuff back then, because, you know, to a lot of fanboys, they think if you direct only one movie,
00:29:18
Speaker
then you can only direct that one type of movie. So everyone's like, oh, why are they hiring Ang Lee? There shouldn't be flying ninjas in a Hulk movie. And I'm like, first off, they weren't ninjas. And second off, he's a director. He can direct more than just Chinese fantasy martial arts movies. And actually, I'm glad you touched on that because
00:29:41
Speaker
That actually is kind of like a relatively recent thing where when you have a director say like he directs like action movies and that's all he directs. That's kind of like really a recent thing. If you go back to the 30s and 40s and 50s, you had directors that in one year he might direct a Western, a musical, a crime drama.
00:30:04
Speaker
and screwball comedy. Directors directed all different types of, they didn't say, okay, well, I'm just a Western director and that's all I'm gonna do. No, they directed a whole bunch of different stuff. I mean, yeah, now we have directors that, well, he's a science fiction director. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that the fact, matter of fact, I was kind of excited because I had seen Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which I liked.
00:30:33
Speaker
Even though I didn't go as crazy over it as most people did, but that was because I had been going to 42nd Street and seen Kung Fu movies ever since I was 13, 14 years old. So to me, Shroust and Tiger, Heat and Dragon was just like a Kung Fu movie with a really big budget. And I had seen like, what was that movie? The Ice Storm.
00:30:57
Speaker
You know, so when I heard that Ang Lee was going to do the home, I said, wow, well, he's going to bring a whole new sensibility to the material. That's the way I looked at it. I got excited. And I had only seen at this point, I had only seen Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. That was the only thing of his I had seen. But, you know, I love that movie. So I was I was totally on board with this. And but you're right there. And this is also kind of only a Western phenomenon, I've noticed, because
00:31:27
Speaker
you know, in Japan, and I talked about this on Japan on Film, my other podcast, there were so many different directors who they do whatever is available, basically. So, I mean, like you take a guy like Takashi Miike, where in one year he makes like, you know, a really violent horror movie, and then he turns around and he makes a kid's fantasy movie.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, okay, I can understand if you like a genre and you specialize in it, but why would you want to limit yourself to just, you know, doing the same thing? Okay, well, I'm going to make another Western. Even Clint Eastwood, much of Clint Eastwood loved Westerns. He went off and he did other things. He did, what was it, play Misty for me.
00:32:11
Speaker
which was the Hitchcockian Thriller. He did, what was that movie? The Beguiled. Didn't he also direct Bridges of Madison County? Yeah, Bridges of Madison County, yeah. He went off and did. You know why? Because, and you know me and you in conversation here, I'm a big believer in stretching your creative muscles
00:32:31
Speaker
in other directions just to keep them, you know, loose and limber. And because to me, creativity is just as much a muscle as any other muscle in your body. It's just the one that's in your head and in your soul. And in order to keep it strong, you have to go another direction. You have to do other things with it. Yeah.
00:32:52
Speaker
But that's just me. No, no, you're absolutely right. And Lee went on to do some other stuff that I really, like he did, after this he did Brokeback Mountain. And then he went on, he did this really good Chinese spy movie called Lost Caution. I'm not sure if you've ever seen it. No, I've heard of it. I haven't seen it
Ang Lee's Versatile Filmography
00:33:09
Speaker
though. Okay, so it's really good and
00:33:13
Speaker
There are two versions of it, right? There's an R-rated version and there's an NC-17 version because there's some pretty explicit sex scenes in that movie. All right. You write this down. Lust caution.
00:33:31
Speaker
But beyond that, it's a really awesome spy movie. And it's set in Hong Kong in 1938, in Shanghai in 1942, when it was under Japanese occupation. And it's about a group of Chinese students who plot to assassinate a special agent working for the puppet government. And yeah, it's...
00:33:58
Speaker
really good. It's definitely, you gotta watch it. You will especially get a kick out of it, I think. And not just because of the sex scenes.
00:34:07
Speaker
What more do I need? But yeah, but Ang Lee has done, you know, he did a Western, what was that Western he did with Tony Maguire? Ride with the Devil. Oh yeah, yeah. That was a good movie. He did the Life of Pi. The point I'm trying to make is that all the movies that he's done
00:34:28
Speaker
have all been different, they've all been different movies. To me, he's like one of those old school directors that, hey, I could direct anything. I don't have to direct just this one type of movie. I could direct anything. Which to me, if you're a director, if I put a script out in front of you, you're supposed to be able to take it and say, OK, I could do this. Instead of just say, well, no way, I don't do this. I just do horror movies.
00:34:58
Speaker
Again, there's nothing wrong with that. I admire anybody that finds what they're good at and they want to stick with it, but I'm just saying that when you get
00:35:11
Speaker
when you bring your sensibilities, okay, you can take it like a hard director, like John Carpenter. What did he, he took that sensibility and he made a completely different movie that people didn't expect from him, Starman. Yeah. Which was a very sweet, wonderful movie. Well, look at, let me look at the MCU. I mean, you got the Russo brothers.
00:35:33
Speaker
These guys were known for writing and directing comedy, TV shows. They worked on Arrested Development, they worked on Community, and then they turn around and they give us a superhero political thriller with The Winter Soldier.
00:35:47
Speaker
Who in the world would have guessed that they had that type of movie in there? And then, not only that, but then they went on and gave us like the most epic superhero movie ever made. Please, thank you. Josh Whedon, everybody expected Avengers to be good because we had seen him do sci-fi and comic book style stuff for years with Buffy, with Angel, with Firefly. So when we saw Avengers, it had everything we came to expect from Josh Whedon. Right, it was no surprise.
00:36:17
Speaker
But the Russos, that was a surprise because nobody saw that coming. Nobody. And it's the same way with Hulk. Right. This was a movie that nobody saw coming because this movie was not Hulk smash, which is what I, which is what I guess a lot of people
00:36:36
Speaker
went to it expecting to see Hulk smash.
Hulk's CGI and Motion Capture
00:36:39
Speaker
Exactly. And it's not about that at all. The movie actually what, what the movie actually is about is that you got Bruce Banner played by Harry Banner and you have Betty Ross played by the magnificent Jennifer Connelly. I watched this movie last week when we were supposed to do it last week and then I watched it again last night and I was struck by
00:37:02
Speaker
Okay. She's gorgeous. You know, that's a given, but you know what? Jennifer Conley can also act. Oh, she can act her ass off. She knows how to sell the reality of what she's doing. Yeah.
00:37:13
Speaker
which to me is, you know, what an actor is supposed to do. They're supposed to sell you on whatever it is you're watching them do at that moment. And she does that perfectly. She is definitely one of my favorite actresses. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's going to be like in 50, well, not in 50 years, in like another 20 years, she's going to be Catherine Hepper.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, but the movie is actually about them and how they've been emotionally screwed over by their fathers. And that's what the movie really is about. It's about, in the case of Bruce Banner, he's been experimented on by his own father. And when he turns into the Hulk, it's the living embodiment of
00:38:05
Speaker
his repressed rage at what's been done to him. And in Betty's case, what her father's done to her is make her dependent upon men who she cannot reach emotionally. Right, because he was like that and so she's often drawn to these guys because she's in a way trying to fix her father. Bingo, exactly. And that is actually what the movie is about. Yeah. Okay.
00:38:31
Speaker
Now, if you've come to the Hulk looking for Hulk smash and you get this psychological drama, of course you're saying, what the hell is this shit? But if you're willing to open yourself up and say, okay, a superhero movie can be other things besides
00:38:50
Speaker
Hulk smash or just a guy putting on a costume and beating up people. And that's where I say that the ambition comes into hope because Ang Lee did the ambitious thing and tried to give us something else.
00:39:07
Speaker
This was, yeah, you're right. This movie, it was, because you know we talk now about one of the successes of Marvel is that they found a way to use superheroes just kind of as window dressing for these other types of genre films. The Hulk was kind of like the first one to really do that, I think. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:24
Speaker
I mean, this is a psychological drama more than anything else. It's a psychological drama. Yes, of course, we have one of my favorite scenes of all time because when you talk about the Hulk and people talk about, oh, yeah, what the abomination is, is it our enemy or the leader? I always say, well, no, it's the United States Army. And that's what we get here. We do get an extended sequence in the desert.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah. Where the Hulk is fighting in the United States Army, just like in the comic books. You know, one of the things I liked about that, that whole thing, too, because I remember when this came out, people were getting annoyed because the Hulk gets bigger. Right. And his size. But that was the whole that was something that came from the comics. Right. The angrier he gets, the bigger he gets, the stronger he gets. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:10
Speaker
So I thought that made a lot of sense. That's not something that they've made up for the movie. Cause that, yeah, people tell, Oh, well he, well, yeah, he does. He, he gets madder. He gets bigger. Yeah. Yeah. That's the whole thing. You know, you got it. That's why the kids said, listen, don't make him mad. And the only thing about, the only thing about the hopeless in this movie is that he's too green.
00:40:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of the things that does not hold up over time is the CGI, the seams become very obvious in this because when he's in the beginning, when they show the Hulk in the darkness, it's fine. It works out perfectly. But when they bring him out in the sunlight, you're right. Like the green was way too bright and it's just, yeah, the CGI does stand out a lot.
00:41:03
Speaker
That's why I think in the Incredible Hulk, they have him. Sometimes he's more gray, they're green, and I think that works out a lot better. Or yeah, like the kind of like this brownish green type of color. It's like this funny. Yeah, yeah. That works well. Here he's, he looks like Shrek sometimes. You know, it's just like, it's a too bright green. Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
The other thing that they did in that movie, and I know we're supposed to be talking about the Ang Lee movie, but just bear with us. But one of the things I think also helped was the muscle definition they gave on him in The Incredible Hulk. They really worked really hard on defining the muscles, and it made it look a little bit more realistic because of that, I thought.
00:41:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, overall, the look of the Hulk in The Incredible Hulk was better than in this movie, but I'm willing to give it leeway because, you know, back then, CGI was still a thing that they were tinkering with. Right, yeah. You know, they wasn't sure, you know, well, how is this going to catch on? Is this really something that, you know, I mean, how could I put it? They were still fiddling with the technology. Yeah.
00:42:17
Speaker
You know, so, you know, I'm willing to give them some leeway, especially because, how can I put this? Again, they tried, they were ambitious. We get those nighttime scenes, and as I always tell people, yeah, well, a lot of times in those early movies when they would, you know, when they had the CGI, they did it at night to hide. It's a little horse, you know? So, yeah, when,
00:42:48
Speaker
It's very jarring to see him at night. And then you go to daytime and you say, wait a minute. Wow. You know, cause he doesn't like cartoon character almost. Yeah. Yeah. It's the realistic, you know, background. So. And also something else about the CGI in this that I think is definitely worth mentioning is the fact that Ang Lee did the motion capture for the Hulk.
Bruce Banner's Emotional Repression
00:43:10
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And, you know, I think that that's pretty damn cool. I think it's really cool that he was willing to just say, you know what, I know what I want this character to do. So just give me the motion capture. I'm going to do it myself. Now, again, that's a director with commitment. Yeah.
00:43:27
Speaker
Instead of, you know, he's gonna, you know, torture this poor actor. No, no, no, I want you to do this. I want you to move like this. No, he climbed into the suit himself. Yeah, yeah. He's not putting anybody through the Stanley Kubrick treatment. Yeah, exactly. He climbed into the suit himself. Because like you said, he knew exactly what he wanted. And this way he doesn't, you know, okay, well, you know what you want.
00:43:50
Speaker
Let's cut out the middle man. I'll climb into the suit. Because it's not like he's got to do any dialogue and stuff like that. Right. And he knows. And yeah, there is the sense that you get, especially in scenes like, OK, the scene where the Hulk first appears and Nick Nolte, he shows up and he's caressing his face and everything like that. There's a lot of pathos that's in that scene. Yeah.
00:44:17
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of genuine feeling in that. Well, there's a lot of genuine feeling in the whole movie, you know. But yeah, in that scene especially, when, you know, he first meets her and then he's on the floor and he's crying and, you know, he'd realize what he's done to his son and everything like, which doesn't last too long, because the Nick Nolte character is totally backshitting, same.
00:44:45
Speaker
But, and also, you know, talking about the cast in this movie too, Jennifer Connelly, obviously, you know, I mean, she's been some of my favorite, like she was in Dark City, which the Rocketeer, Requiem for a Dream, which I have trouble even watching anymore. I watched that movie.
00:45:09
Speaker
I watched that movie against the advice of a friend of mine who said, don't watch that at night. And I said, man, it's just a movie, I'm gonna watch it. I watched that movie about like one o'clock in the morning. I have no shame in admitting I couldn't sleep right that night or the next night. No, I've seen that movie exactly one time. And while I appreciate it for its technical, you know,
00:45:37
Speaker
direction and the acting and everything like that. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm like you. That's one of those movies I have no desire to ever watch again. You know what? Do you remember they had the, I'm not sure, because you didn't have kids or anything like that, but did you know about the DARE program they had in like the eighties and the nineties? Yeah. Yeah. So it was this program that they did to try and keep kids off of drugs and everything, which actually they found out it had the opposite effect. Yeah, exactly.
00:46:07
Speaker
Exactly. He actually made more kids use drugs, because you're telling me. Listen, show them that movie. I was gonna say, yeah, show them Reppling for a Dream, man. That'll stop anybody from doing drugs. That don't stop you from using drugs. I don't know what will. Yeah. But yeah, but she made two movies that
00:46:27
Speaker
I think that anybody who calls themselves either a fan of Jennifer Connelly or a fan of the genre should, I mean, Dark City and the Rocketeer. Yeah. You know, if you haven't seen them two movies, listen, we can't talk. I'm sorry. Dark City is a masterpiece flat out. And the Rocketeer is like, that's on its own level. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that movie was,
00:46:54
Speaker
That was basically Captain America before we got a Captain America movie. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. Same director too, Joe Johnston. Same director, Joe Johnston, who to me is, you know, one of these guys is making more movies. You know what? They got to get this guy to direct an Indiana Jones reboot with the guy from Solo. Yeah.
00:47:16
Speaker
That's what they gotta do. I have been saying this for, I don't know how long. Listen, Harrison Ford, I'm tired of this nonsense about, well, only Harrison Ford could play Indiana Jones. Please, let's retire him already, get the guy from Solo, and let him play Indiana Jones and put him in a whole bunch of new movies. And let's get on with it already. Yeah, yeah. Also, we've got something else about Jennifer Connelly too. She's also made an MCU debut.
00:47:44
Speaker
because she was the voice of Karen, the suit lady in Spider-Man Homecoming. Oh, OK. Which it's kind of funny because you know where her husband is, right? Who's the husband? Paul Bettany, who did the voice of Jarvis and then went on to do Vision. Oh, really? OK. Didn't I know they was married? That's good. Oh, that's a good match. I like to do it.
00:48:07
Speaker
And then, but Eric Bania as Bruce Banner, like, I mean, I don't have anything against Bana. I liked him a lot when this movie came out, but then when Incredible Hulk came out, I thought, okay, Edward Norton's, I like Edward Norton better. And then when Avengers came out, I'm like, okay, Mark Ruffalo is now my guy. So here's time, it keeps getting one up. So that's one thing that I think is, Marvel's done a really good job of casting Bruce Banner. I will give him that.
00:48:33
Speaker
Yes. I mean, like I said, I can see each one of these guys is Bruce Banner at different stages. Right.
00:48:43
Speaker
of being the Hulk and being Bruce Banner, like Eric Banner, he's just learning about this and he's just starting out and he's coming to grips with, you know, his father and everything like that. Okay, now we move like a year or whatever later, and now he's Edward Norton. He's got more of a handle on, you know, being the Hulk and he's learned how to control them more.
00:49:06
Speaker
He's a little bit more savvy at staying out of hands of, you know, Thunderbolt Ross and everything like that. Right. And then of course we get Mark Ruffalo, who by the time we get to him, he is totally at home being the Hulk because he understands like he's got that great line in Avengers because Captain America said, what's the trick? He said, there is no trick. I'm just always angry. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
00:49:27
Speaker
which you know to what I still maintain that line doesn't make a lick of sense but it's still an awesome moment no it doesn't that line doesn't make any sense at all but the way he delivers it it's cool as hell and you just go with it you just go sometimes it's not about the sense of it it's the emotion yeah and that's what it is with you because that line
00:49:51
Speaker
I mean, the showing that I went to, everybody cheered. They just said, oh shit, yeah, yeah, yeah, good for you. But yeah, every time I watch that movie, I'm just like, and I was the same way. I loved that line when that happened. Then I watched it, when I watched that movie again, I'm like, wait a minute. That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't track at all. But I like the Mark Ruffalo because by this time that he's gotten to be Bruce Banner, in a lot of ways,
00:50:22
Speaker
he treats the Hulk like a hand grenade he's got in his back pocket. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, you know, it's not like he's fighting it anymore. Like, you know, okay. Like when they have the house around and everything like that. And he's like totally at ease. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he knows he can just pull the Hulk out anytime he wants. And that's it. Which I kind of like that characterization of Bruce Banner that, you know, cause to me,
00:50:49
Speaker
And you know, I wrote a fan fiction series. Which was amazing, by the way. Thank you. And I always looked at the Hulk as being like his addiction. Whether he wants to admit it or not, he's also addicted to being the Hulk. Yeah, yeah. He kind of likes being able to let go because then he can blame, well, that wasn't me, that was the Hulk.
00:51:10
Speaker
There was actually there was a there was a comic book run Jason Aaron did several years back. I think I may have mentioned it on here before but and in this in this series it opens up with Banner and Hulk being separated right and Banner's whole Banner's almost become like obsessed with reuniting with the Hulk.
00:51:31
Speaker
And so it really leaned on that idea of him, you know, of the Hulk being like his addiction. And there's also a little hint of that here because, right, there's that one thing when there's a great scene when Bruce is explaining to Betty what it's like before he transforms. And he says like, you know, there's a moment right before it happens and I like it. Yeah, yeah.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, let's face it. Who wouldn't like having all that raw power. Right. Well, the thing is, like, and I think what Bana does really good here is portraying how repressed Bruce Banner is. So when he is when he does transform, it's just like total catharsis for him. Yeah.
00:52:21
Speaker
And again, this goes back to connecting it, the banner version of Bruce Banner to the Mark Ruffalo because Eric Banner, like you say, he's very repressed.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah. Emotionally. But Mark Ruffalo, he's very open with his emotions and he's very free. He allows himself to be frightened, to, you know, get mad or yell at other people and everything like that, which also helps him deal with the Hulk when he's more open with his own emotions. Yes, yeah. But like, sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, I'm saying that's the way I look at it. Yeah, yeah. And also I can't imagine
00:53:03
Speaker
Like I can't really picture Mark Ruffalo playing this Bruce Banner, but I also can't imagine like Eric Bana playing like the smart Hulk in Avengers Endgame, right? I could never see that happening. You need that, you know, Ruffalo projects that, you know, that comfort with being one with the Hulk, which I don't think Bana or Norton either could have really captured in the same way.
00:53:27
Speaker
No, no.
Superhero Actor Comparisons
00:53:29
Speaker
But like I said, it's very interesting. And see now, I wish now that we're talking about it like this, I really wish I'd watch all three movies back to back so that I could have compared their performances because yeah, it's a progression. Yeah, yeah.
00:53:43
Speaker
from Eric Banner to Edward Norton to Mark Ruffalo. I think it was our buddy Mark Buskin who said that if you look at the three Punisher actors in the movies, not obviously the TV show, but you look at Dolph Lundgren, you look at Tom Jane, and then Ray Stevenson, and they actually could play the same character. It's just the movies are out of order.
00:54:07
Speaker
right, where it's like, you could imagine like Tom Jane being him at the beginning and then Ray Stevenson being like him in like the middle part of his life and then Dolph Lundgren at like the end of the journey when he's like, you know, broken down and he's just like, you know, burnt out. That's really interesting. Yeah. That's really interesting. Oh, you never heard him say that before? No, I did. I probably forgot, but it sounds like something Mark would say. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he, he, he's,
00:54:37
Speaker
That cat is deep. He's deep, he's into that. Yeah, but that's, and you know what? I've always maintained. That's one thing I've always maintained. That the Punisher movie with Dolph Lundgren is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.
00:54:53
Speaker
I've got it, I've got to rewatch it at one point because I don't think I've watched, I've only watched it once and that was like 20 years ago and I hated it back then. But after hearing like you and Mark talk about it, I know I got to give it a second try eventually.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, you know what? It's not that bad. It really isn't. I mean, you know what? It's bad in the context that it's not him wearing, like, skull shirt and everything like that. But now that you're telling me about how watching it in the reverse, because the Dolph Lundgren one actually came first. But now that you're telling me, yeah, I can see it working as the Punisher. We catch him years down the road when he's, like, busted.
00:55:37
Speaker
You doubt his last few bullets and stuff like that. Yeah, that's a very interesting notion. I got to do that. But I think obviously the best performance in this and probably one of those examples when you could not create a more perfect actor for this character, Sam Elliott.
Sam Elliott and Nick Nolte's Performances
00:55:59
Speaker
Oh, my God. Yeah. Sam Iliad is like, well, Sam Iliad is God as far as I'm concerned. You know, but I mean, he OK, he's supposed to be the best. Well, no, he's not the bad guy in the movie. Josh Lucas as Glenn Talbot. He is the actual bad guy. What I like about the Thunderbolt Ross in this movie in that we understand him.
00:56:25
Speaker
Yes. You know, I get why he does it, which is like I always say, I've said it a dozen times. I'm going to say it a dozen times more. I really don't care about if I like a character, if I don't like a character, but I want to understand why they do what they do. Yeah. And I understand why Thunderbolt Ross does what he does. Yes. And he is he's great in this role. Like he he I think he's actually more well drawn than you even see the character in the comics.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah, he is because the Thunderbolt Ross in the comics is pretty much just kill Hulk, kill Hulk, kill Hulk. I don't like Hulk. I think Bruce Banner is a wimp. You know, I got repressed sexual feelings for my daughter.
00:57:13
Speaker
serious you know he's a pretty one-note character but in this one we you know he's a human being right he even understands bruce to some extent as well that's one of the things i like about it like when he's you know he's he's he's you can tell that he's doing he's really torn between
00:57:33
Speaker
his concerns about what this guy is and who his father is, but also he's, you know, like there's that one scene when he's talking to him and he finds out that Bruce has repressed all the memories. And he says, yeah, and he's like, I'm sorry, kid, you're a whole lot more messed up than I thought. Yeah. And then later on, he says to Betty,
00:57:53
Speaker
He says, you know, and he admits it he said you want to know really mess up thing about all this. He said, I just threw that kid away. Yeah, it didn't even you know without a second thought he was just collateral damage. I didn't even, and you know some. That was a big moment for him with his daughter. Yes, it seems like a throwaway.
00:58:13
Speaker
seeing their relationship that they've been having that was a very big admission for him to make because he was saying without coming out and saying I was wrong. Yeah, I was 100% wrong. And then, then we get. And then you mentioned, you know, Josh Lucas as Glenn Talbot, who
00:58:33
Speaker
I mean, it was okay in this movie, but it's hard for me to watch it now because Adrian Pastar played Glenn Talbot in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and played a much more well-rounded version of the character. Yeah, yeah. The guy here, Josh Lucas, all he needed was a twirly mustache. Yeah. That's all he... Which is funny because he...
00:58:58
Speaker
Cause you know, Glen Talbot, he does play Talbot very much like he was in the comics, right? Talbot was like this arrogant jackass type thing. The only thing he, and Glen Talbot had the mustache. The only thing that Lucas is literally missing is the mustache. That's all he needed was a mustache to twirl. I would like to mention before we go further, cause I don't want to forget him.
00:59:21
Speaker
The actor who plays the young Thunderbolt Ross is named Todd Tencent, and he does a great job. He plays a young Sam Elliott. For a minute, I thought he was Lee Schreiber for a minute. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought he was, I said, wait a minute, is that Lee? Because it's been a while since I've seen the movie. I said, oh, shit, I've got Lee Schreiber who was in this movie. And then I read the credits later on. Todd Tencent. But when you look at him, yeah, damn it, he doesn't look and sound exactly like
00:59:48
Speaker
you know, a 20 year old, you know, Sam Elliott. And as I have said before, I've said this before, I always appreciate it when in a movie they have an actor playing the younger version of a character, that they get somebody that looks and sounds. Yes. Like, you know, and they did in this one. They also did the same thing with Paul Kersey who plays the young David Banner, right? He looks like a young Nick Nolte. Yeah, exactly. He should, I looked at him and I said, okay, you know, I mean,
01:00:18
Speaker
It was too early for that type of technology, but they could have almost used the aging thing. Yes. You can believe that they did that. That's how much this guy looks like Nick Nolte. Absolutely. Is it time to get around to him, Nick Nolte? Yeah, I was going to mention him next. Go ahead. Nick Nolte in this movie,
01:00:49
Speaker
He's kind of like the Hulk too because he does, he does some really good stuff early on, but then he goes into mustache twirling territory really fast. Like he just, he jumps in the crazy car and he just slams on the gas pedal. Ladies and gentlemen, excuse my French, but I want to tell you one thing, as much as I love this movie, I have absolutely no idea what the fuck.
01:01:16
Speaker
I can't do it. Don't get me wrong, I love it. He's poking around, he's in the dark with his poodles. We're in places he has no business being. Bruce looks out the window in the middle of the night, he has a nightmare. And he goes to the window and looks out and nicks no pants across the street with his poodles, just standing.
01:01:46
Speaker
He wait, Bruce wakes up in a hospital room, he went there, Nick Knowley is sitting there surrounded by his poodles. Also, when Betty sees him, and she's like, oh, where's Benny? The other guy, he's like, oh, he's dead. She's like, oh, okay, don't sugarcoat it or anything. No, but you know something? And the way he says it, you know exactly that son of a bitch killed him. Oh yeah, oh yeah. He said, oh, Benny, oh, he's dead.
Critique of Film's Climax
01:02:18
Speaker
And I can make no sense at all of his dialogue. It's like his dialogue, and I guess that's the genius of Nick Nolte, because it sounds like he's making it up on the spot. Every single word that comes out of his mouth sounds like he's just making it like he just said, I don't need a script. Don't give me a script. I don't care about a script. Oh, God. Yeah. Oh, man.
01:02:45
Speaker
He makes the movie, you know, he makes the movie. And at the end, I have no idea. Okay. That's something we gotta talk about. Is that- No, that's the elephant that's in the room. Oh my God. I have watched this movie probably a few, at least a dozen times, right? And in all the times I've watched this movie, I have no fucking idea what the hell is happening in that climax. I have no idea at all. And it's just,
01:03:15
Speaker
Matter of fact, I'm still, mind you, like I said, I watched this movie last week and I watched it last night. I watched this movie last night and I'm still not sure how they got from the warehouse to that lake. Yeah.
01:03:33
Speaker
I'm still not sure how they got there. He like turns into electricity or something and he like teleports Bruce through the, I, I don't know. It's, it's a total muddle best. Like the, you know, this movie has a huge third act problem. Like the first act, the second, great, really good, good. But then I don't know.
01:03:57
Speaker
who decided that you want to turn Nick Nolte into this weird animal game of Absorbing Man and Zax, but whoever did, you know. Oh, Zax, okay, the Absorbing Man I got. Yeah, yeah. Because he's in the lab and he zaps himself. And then he does the thing where- And he sucks in the nanomachines like it's- Yeah, he sucks up the nanites.
01:04:26
Speaker
He gets a hosa. He hits himself with the gamma rays, but he's done already experimented because in the beginning of the movie, we see him cutting up starfish and ejecting himself with monkeys. Like I said, it's batshit insane what Nick Nolte does in this movie. And we're never really sure. I know he writes down one thing, okay, regeneration is immortality.
01:04:53
Speaker
So, you know, but we're never sure exactly what it is he's trying to accomplish. You know, he experiments on his own son, and then he tries to kill his son because, you know, because he just gets pissed off because Thunderbolt Ross tells him, well, the project is over. Yeah, I've never understood why he experiments on his son to begin with. Yeah. That's another thing that just nothing Nick Nolte does in this movie makes any sense. Nothing. Nothing he does. You know what?
01:05:23
Speaker
okay I'm gonna go so far as to say it don't matter because it's entertaining as hell but it doesn't make a lick of sense anything he does in this movie you know poodles he gamma rays that was another thing that a lot of people got pissed off at when they heard that hulk was gonna be fighting gamma dogs and I don't understand what like first off
01:05:50
Speaker
There have been gamma dogs in the comic books that came from the comic books. Oh man. But second, you know what? I don't see what the problem is with that. I mean, I, you know what? It's just all part of the insanity of Nick Nolte, you know?
01:06:05
Speaker
If you've bought all the crazy shit he's done up to that point, well, then why wouldn't you go with the gamma dogs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although the poodle was definitely an interesting choice. Yeah, the poodle. That's what I'm saying. The first time I saw the movie, I think I was the only one that cracked up in the theater. Patricia said, why are you laughing? The man is standing across the street with a pack of poodles.
01:06:27
Speaker
What are you talking about? Bruce wakes up in this hospital room, and the guy's sitting there with legs crossed, casual, everything like that, and he's surrounded by poodles of various sizes and shapes. I mean, come on. Oh, man. Oh, it's hilarious.
01:06:50
Speaker
And then he had his scenes with Jennifer Connelly because she's sitting there looking at him and even Jennifer Connelly is looking at him like, this is the first time she's ever heard this dialogue because he's making it up. Yeah, I'm watching the movie and I'm looking at Jennifer Connelly's reactions. And I'm not sure if she's reacting as Betty or if she's Jennifer Connelly reacting to Nicole T's insanity. Exactly.
01:07:14
Speaker
You know, it's one of the weird moments you don't know because you're looking at her and she's just like saying, wait a minute, I don't know. He does know we're acting, right? Yeah. Well, this was apparently when Nick Nolte got arrested for drunk driving.
01:07:33
Speaker
You know what? I can believe it. I can believe he was taking all kinds of stuff because you know what? No matter, you don't understand a word he says, but he believes whatever it is he's saying very sincerely. This man believes what he's saying, whatever it is. Okay, so I was just looking up Nick Nolte. Did you know that in 1965, he was arrested for counterfeiting?
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, Nick Nolte has had a very interesting life. Jesus. He's an Aquarius, like me. Matter of fact, I believe him and I have the same birthday. Okay, so yeah, I think, yeah, that was apparently while he was making this movie is when he got arrested for substance abuse.
01:08:23
Speaker
And you know, it makes me wonder if he was high when he was making this damn movie. Because he made very well of it. You know what? I would not have any problem believing that he was high while he was making this movie. Because like I said, I don't understand a thing he's saying. And he has that quality, whereas I believe he was just making up his dialogue on the spot. Despite this.
01:08:50
Speaker
Like I said, he does have some memorable scenes in this movie. Like when he first meets the Hulk. And he touches his face and he's calling him son, everything like that. And the impact of what he's done to his son has finally hit him.
01:09:05
Speaker
yeah like okay he wanted results but he didn't know he was going to get this another thing that's good in that scene is the hulk's reaction to him because banner has no memory banner is completely repressed that but the hulk clearly remembers him yeah right you know he knows who this is yeah you know and it you know
01:09:26
Speaker
And it's just a wonderful scene. And the scene where, like I said, where he's, I guess he's trying to justify what he's done to Betty. And he's sitting there and he's talking to her and, you know, she's telling me and, you know, she's trying to make him understand how messed up he is. And he's just not getting it.
01:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And he's saying, yeah, well, you know, I'm breaking the boundaries that God placed on man and everything like that. And Betty's looking at me, she said, you really don't get that you're fucking nuts, do you? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, jacking up your poodle. Yeah. Maybe that's a boundary God placed, but it was probably a boundary that was there for a good reason. It was there for a reason, you know? You know, yeah.
01:10:16
Speaker
There is a whole lot of 1950s monster movie in the DNA of this too, in that you have Nick Notte who represents the scientists who crosses the boundaries that man was not meant to cross. Yeah. And they also had a nod to the TV show because in the comics, his father is abusive as well, though he wasn't a mad scientist, but he's Brian Banner in the comics. But in the movie, they made him David Banner as a nod to Bill Bixby.
01:10:46
Speaker
TV show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which we should also mention that of course there is the obligatory Stan Lee cameo quite early in the movie in fact, where he's with Lou Ferrigno. They play security guards. Yeah and Lou Ferrigno man still jacked. Oh man. In fact he looks more like the Hulk now than he did in the 1970s. Yes he does, he does.
01:11:09
Speaker
I mean, I see him in I saw him in that I saw him in most he was also he also cameoed in Incredible Hulk. And then I saw him he was in this, this really great comedy movie with Paul Rudd and Jason Siegel called. I love you man. Have you ever seen that. No, it's a good movie you got to check that out. Paul Rudd plays this guy who he's engaged to.
01:11:32
Speaker
Rashida, what's her name? Rashida Jones? Rashida Jones, yeah. So she's in that too. He's engaged to her and they're planning their wedding. And she finds out that he doesn't really have any good friends who are guys. And so he basically goes on a hunt to try to find a male best friend. And it ends up being Jason Siegel.
01:11:53
Speaker
And it's just a really good movie. And one of the things is he's a real estate agent in LA. And one of his clients is Lou Ferrigno. So Lou Ferrigno's in there and still looking jacked as hell. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. He's playing Lou Ferrigno. He's playing himself. Oh, okay. Yes, he's playing himself, yeah. And he does a great job of it. There's this one thing where Jason Siegel's getting all in his face and Lou Ferrigno puts him in a headlock.
01:12:24
Speaker
Jason Segal wouldn't be a bad guy to have for a friend, I think. Oh, hell, I love Jason Segal, man. Anytime I see him in a movie, I know I'm gonna enjoy it. Yeah, I was watching...
01:12:37
Speaker
this really weird series on AMC, Dispatches From Elsewhere, that was really good with him and he like wrote it and directed it and stuff like that. It was like based on a web series. If you ever get the chance to see it, watch as him, as Andre 3000 is in that and- What was it called again? As Sally Field. What was it called again? Dispatches From Elsewhere.
01:13:06
Speaker
Okay, I'll check that out. Yeah, check it out. It's really good. Matter of fact, I... Oh, he created it, it looks... Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to find it because I was watching it on AMC and somehow I missed the last two episodes. Oh, it looks like it... Yeah, so it looks like it... Just this past March, it was... Yeah, yeah.
01:13:28
Speaker
So yeah, the 10th episode came out in April. So yeah, it'll probably, I mean, a lot of the AMC stuff, it ends up being on Netflix. So probably in the next few months or so, it'll end up there. Right. That's what I figured. I said, well, you know what? I'll just keep checking Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. And Seiver's song now. Yeah. He's good. He's good. I like him a lot, Jason Siegel. Oh yeah. And it's got Paul Rudd in it too. And you know, a lot of, and also you were talking Andy Sandberg has a small role in it too. So does, um, um,
01:13:58
Speaker
JK Simmons and some of the other Brooklyn 99 guys are in there too. So yeah, you'll definitely enjoy that. It's definitely worth a watch. It was like this little movie, it came out and like didn't really get any attention. And I only discovered it like years later.
01:14:16
Speaker
But anyway, back to the whole. And it's one of those movies that you watch and you say, well, how come nobody went to see this thing? Exactly. Yeah, it's definitely one of those. And watch it. I'm just like, man, this is this is really good. And just really funny. And yeah, definitely find a way to check that out. But anyway.
01:14:37
Speaker
Another thing I liked about Hulk was the, I know a lot of people hated this, but I thought it was a really cool way
Visual Style and Storytelling in Hulk
01:14:45
Speaker
to do it. And that's the panels. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know maybe he gets, he does it, maybe he overdoes it in some points, but overall I really liked the use of the panel filming.
01:15:04
Speaker
I know a lot of people, yeah, that that was like their major complaint out of the many major complaints that they had. But a lot of people really hated that, with the dissolves and the use of the panels and the way that he would have one character move into another scene. Me, again, I admire ambition.
01:15:30
Speaker
you know, and Ang Lee was trying to think of a unique way to give this, to feel like you were reading a comic book come to life. Yes. And I think that that's what he did, you know, and I think that that's what he was shooting for. And okay, maybe he could have toned it down a little bit. Okay, sure. But you know what? Nothing exceeds like excess. So, you know, and like I said,
01:15:57
Speaker
It was ambitious and I admire ambition and I, and I meet myself, I didn't have a problem with it. You know what? Visually, this movie keeps your attention and nothing else because there's always something happening on the street. And to give him his credit, when he has those emotional scenes, when his characters that are just talking, he doesn't do that.
01:16:19
Speaker
Right, right. You know, he puts the camera down, and he lets the actors do their thing. And then after they've done that thing, then he'll go on and he'll do the things with sliding panels and, and you know the dissolves and everything like that.
01:16:34
Speaker
when it comes time for the actors just to act, he lets them go ahead and do it. He doesn't put in, you know, all the fancy camera tricks. I liked it myself. I mean, I have a hard time disliking this movie. And when people, again, like I said at the beginning, when people tell me why they don't like it, I understand that it's valid. But to me, the overall ambition of the movie, to me,
01:17:00
Speaker
I'm willing to overlook all that other stuff, but that's just me. No, I agree with you. I'm right there with you.
Film's Reception Over Time
01:17:08
Speaker
My opinion on this movie has cooled in the years, almost 20 years since it first came out. I loved it when it first came out. And now, in retrospect, I'm like, eh. When I was watching it the other night, I'm kind of like,
01:17:25
Speaker
drifting off in a few places. And so I definitely cooled on it, but I still respect a lot of what Ang Lee was trying to do here. And there's still a lot of it I like, but there's also a lot that I think he was trying to do too much. In fact, I think you can cut out the whole David Banner stuff entirely, and it would have made this movie a lot stronger. I mean, as much fun as Nick Nolte is,
01:17:55
Speaker
in his batshit insanity. You don't need him in this movie.
01:18:02
Speaker
If you wanna have him in flashbacks or something to hint at the abuse, that's one thing. But I think going the full route and making him the villain. Also, this was kind of a trend happening with the Marvel movies at the time, which makes me wonder if Avi Arad had some unresolved issues with his dad. But it was like every single Marvel movie that came out back in the early 2000s had daddy issues as like the major theme. Yeah, yeah.
01:18:30
Speaker
I mean, you had this, you had the X-Men movies had a lot of that, even X-Men 3, right? When they announced that they were gonna have Warren Worthington II, Archangel's father, who has never been a character of any substance in the comics, they decide, oh, he's gonna be the one responsible for making this drug that's destroying mutants. And one of the themes like Angel and his relationship,
01:18:57
Speaker
I mean, Avi, call up your dad and settle your shit, man. I know, right? No, but know something, you're absolutely right. And not to think about it, but you know something? Okay, it seems to be like certain filmmakers and like you say, certain producers, everything like that. Whatever the little bugaboo is in their life always seems to get filtered into their work somehow. Yeah, which is why we always see feet in Quentin Tarantino movies. Yeah.
01:19:26
Speaker
which has become like, you know, which now I think he probably does it on purpose because he knows that people are gonna be looking for it. So he tells his actresses, you know what, give me a shot at your feet real quick so we can get this started away. But also, you know what, back when, like you said, we're talking about Hulk and this is a movie like, what, like almost 20 years old?
01:19:47
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. How old was this movie? Almost 20 years. It came out in 2003. Yeah, almost 20 years. Okay. It's not like now where we've had another 20 years of superhero movies on top of this. That's like a template for people to follow. Right. Because now if you're a film director, you can go back and look at...
01:20:04
Speaker
20 years, there wasn't like really a whole bunch of movies for Ang Lee to go look at and say, okay, well, this is how I do a superhero movie.
Unique Direction of Ang Lee
01:20:13
Speaker
He truly did do a superhero movie the way he wanted to do it. He wasn't interested in how anybody else did it. He just said, okay, well, this is what I'm going to do, for better or for worse. And I think that that was the way for him to go. I really do. You know what? Okay. You don't get,
01:20:32
Speaker
a guy like Ang Lee who has done material like the ice storm and ride with the devil and, you know, all of these movies, you don't hire him and say, okay, well, we want you to dumb this down and we want you to, you know, okay. You hire him because he does what he does and he's very good at what he does. Right. Let me put it that way. And it did,
01:21:02
Speaker
relatively well at the box office. It was like one of the highest grossing movies of 2003. And there were talks of a sequel. They were planning on doing a sequel, right? And the screenwriter, James Seamus, he said that he wanted the sequel to feature the Greyhulk and he wanted to have the leader and the abomination in it, which abomination was actually at Marvel's request. And then,
01:21:33
Speaker
but Universal didn't meet the deadline for filming a sequel. And then Marvel got the film rights to the character and then they started working on Incredible Hulk, which, but then we got this thing where Marvel has the film rights to the character, but Universal has the distribution rights, which is why we're not getting another Hulk movie, because at least not a solo movie, which is why Hulk instead is only appearing in other movies.
Financial Performance and Sequel Plans
01:21:58
Speaker
Right.
01:22:00
Speaker
So we have- Sorry. No, I'm just gonna thank you for bringing that up and putting that in there because, you know, one thing that I, out of the many things that pissed me off about fanboys, you know, they always love to say, well, that movie was a bomb. That's why they didn't make a sequel. No, it didn't. This movie made a respectable amount of money. Like you said, enough that, yeah, that they were gonna make a sequel.
01:22:25
Speaker
This movie made money. Of course, the money that it grows today isn't a blip compared to what superhero movies make now. But back then, people were looking at it and said, oh, man, this is good numbers. So they were going to make a sequel to it. Yeah. But as always, there were other factors that were involved. Yeah. And this film, I think in a lot of ways,
01:22:51
Speaker
I think it really did try to do something different than the other superhero origin story movies were doing at the time. Because the other ones were basically following the hero's journey type of thing and just using it with the superhero. But this was really the first superhero movie that tried to be something different and try to do something different with the idea of a superhero movie. And it's a template that Marvel would later adopt when they started, you know,
01:23:20
Speaker
when they started realizing, okay, well, we can't just keep doing origin stories all over again. So we gotta start making genre films with superheroes.
Retrospective Appreciation of Hulk
01:23:28
Speaker
And I think a lot of that, I don't think you get to a lot of that unless you have Hulk first. Exactly, exactly. I agree 100%. As much as people talk about, oh, Hulk is a terrible movie. There's a lot of other movies you don't get without Hulk. It's one, you know, I don't,
01:23:48
Speaker
I would not go so far as to claim that it's a touchstone of the superhero cinema. But what I do think in that you had other filmmakers and actors, they looked at this and they said, oh, wow, OK, it's a superhero movie. But it's not punchy, punchy, run, run. It's actually trying to be about something. Right. You know, and I think that that's when people
01:24:14
Speaker
you know, and I'm not talking about the crowd paying Hoy Paloy. I'm talking about people that's in the industry. I'm talking about the screenwriters. I'm talking about actors and directors. I feel that this movie probably had more of an impact on them than it did, you know, like with the public. And in the past 10 years or so, it has been getting, you know, people have been taking a second look at it now.
01:24:38
Speaker
And there's like, I'm reading here on Wikipedia and it's gotten retrospective praise for being, for like the artistic difference that it's had from other superhero movies at the time. And, you know, one person wrote that it departed from the formula in terms of subject matter or tone and writing that it's pretty bizarre in its old school Freudian psychology, but it's also interesting for that same reason.
01:25:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a very, to me, I'm sorry, folks. I know people are gonna listen to this and they're gonna say, well, Derek is going completely off the rails. But I'm sorry. But I mean, we knew that about you a while ago, so that's nothing.
01:25:17
Speaker
I do not have it in my heart to dislike this movie. I mean, it's truly different and unique when it comes to superhero movies. It's its own thing. You cannot confuse it. You cannot confuse this hope with another superhero movie. You really can. Absolutely not. You really can. It's its own thing. And thank God for that. I really do. I mean, is it a good movie?
01:25:44
Speaker
I'm gonna, you know what? That is entirely up to you as an individual, you know? And as I said before,
01:25:52
Speaker
I would not sit up here and defend the flaws of this movie, which it does have many. I would not defend that because they're indefensible. But all I can say is that I overlooked them because I'm looking at the overall package of what Ang Lee tried to do in my head. So I'd give him a lot of respect for what he tried to do with this movie. Same here. Yeah.
01:26:19
Speaker
Um, okay, I think that's all we have to say about, about hope, unless you have anything you want to add. Well no there's not a lot to say about hope because, you know what, to me hope is like the. Okay, this hope is a perfect movie for this election season, because, much like you've made up your mind.
01:26:42
Speaker
who you're going to vote for, and nothing I or anybody else could say can change your mind about that. Well, Hulk is the same way. People have made up their mind about this movie and I'm not arrogant enough to think that whatever I say is going to change your mind about it. The only thing that I can hope is that
01:26:58
Speaker
uh you know that Kerry and I have maybe given you something new to think about and maybe you might want to take which is always our intention in that you
Encouragement to Revisit Hulk
01:27:09
Speaker
know we're not trying to like change people's minds or you say that you was wrong about it anything like that
01:27:15
Speaker
All we just try to do is say, you know what? Maybe I should give this movie another try, you know, and filter it through what these guys have said about it and see how I feel about it now. That's all. I think it's definitely, especially if you didn't really care for it the first time, it's definitely worth the second look.
01:27:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, especially because, and I know that for myself that a lot of times I'll see a movie and I'll say, oh man, that sucks. And then like, you know, like after some time has passed like a couple of years or even a couple of months in some cases or definitely a couple of years, I'll watch it again. I'll say, you know, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Right. Yeah.
01:27:57
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, give this movie another chance. You might find out it's better than you originally thought. And you might still think we're crazy, but that's okay too. But it's definitely worth giving it. Just give it one more try. That's all we're really asking here. I mean, listen, if you're at home quarantining anyway, don't sit there and watch Aquaman for the, you know, the 15th time.
01:28:27
Speaker
Why something different? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that brings us to the end of Hulk, which means I'm going up next. So I decided to take us back to animation. And especially because I recently read this character's, the comics where this character first appeared in, I thought this was a good time to do it.
Praise for Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
01:28:48
Speaker
And that is into the Spider-Verse. Oh, okay.
01:28:55
Speaker
So the film debut of Miles Morales in animation form at least. So that's what we'll be watching next. And I'm looking forward to rewatching that movie because that was like, when that movie came out, I mean, that was like the closest thing you can get to, to damn universal praise.
01:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I watched it because I had seen it, didn't know what it was about, but all I know is that everybody loved it. And I said, well, this movie can't be that good. Then I watched it and I said, yeah, it is that good. It is that good. Yeah, it is that good. It's that rare movie that everybody loved it and they loved it for a good reason. Yes, yeah.
01:29:40
Speaker
I mean, I cannot think of any other movie with the exception of Endgame that receives so much praise and love as this. And mind you, I'm not a big Spider-Man fan. I love this movie. Right. And you also don't really know much about Miles Morales as well. Don't know that much about him either. Yeah, but I sat down and watched it.
01:30:03
Speaker
loved it from start to finish. Yeah. So, so yeah, we'll talk more about that. And, you know, part of like how Miles Morales came to be, because I just, they had a, you know, comicsology got to plug them, even though they're not paying us any money yet. But they recently had a sale on the Marvel Ultimate Comics.
01:30:23
Speaker
So I went through and I bought like, you know, all of the ultimate Spider-Man stuff that Brian Bendis and Mark Bagley did. And I also bought the stuff that he did with Miles Morales, because that's where he introduced that character. Oh, okay. So yeah, I'm looking forward to rewatching this movie now that I know more about the character. Okay, cool.
01:30:44
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, join us next week. I'm looking forward to watching that again. Yeah, same here. I mean, how can you not love watching that movie?
50th Episode Commentary Poll and Debate Discussion
01:30:54
Speaker
But yeah, head on over to our group, Superhero Cinephiles on Facebook. We've got the poll going now to decide on what movie we're gonna watch for our quickly approaching 50th live commentary. And
01:31:12
Speaker
And Derek posted a threat in the comments there. He posted, you want to explain? Because I don't think I can bring myself to look upon this tragedy. No. I mean, you're pulling out the big guns with a threat like that. I'm just letting people know if you want to leave it up to me, you're going to end up with a live commentary of steel. Yeah.
01:31:42
Speaker
And trust me, it doesn't get much worse than steel. Yeah, yeah. So if you don't get your vote in, you are seeing the depths of which I'm capable of going. But I think right now we're doing okay because the suggestions we got were
01:32:01
Speaker
Avengers, Mask of the Phantasm, Batman versus TMNT, Constantine, City of Demons, Blank Man, Batman Beyond, Return of the Joker, and Batman Ninja. A lot of people like us doing Batman movies, it looks like. Apparently so, yeah.
01:32:18
Speaker
The two that are in the lead right now are Avengers and is the favorite right now, but Mask of the Phantasm also has a few votes. So if you want to lend your voice and pick one of those, you better jump in and do that soon. Because we only got a few more weeks before we're going to be doing that 50th episode.
01:32:37
Speaker
Now we'll probably get around to doing mask and phantasm sooner because I've always said that I consider that to be the best Batman movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I've actually animated. That's the bet. Yeah. Yeah. That will definitely be coming around sooner or later. So so even if we don't get to it this time, don't worry. We will be getting to it eventually.
01:32:58
Speaker
Okay, thanks so much for listening. Come back next week when we talk about Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse. And I got a vice presidential debate to watch to see if it's gonna be a shit show like last week. Yeah, I'm getting ready to go upstairs and join the loving wife. And she said that she was gonna wait for me and we were gonna watch this together. I hope she remembered to get the booze. Yeah, I gotta make some popcorn.
01:33:27
Speaker
Oh, man. No, but you know something? I expect this is going to be like the total opposite, like, whereas, you know,
01:33:37
Speaker
Uh, Trump and Biden was like a total shit show and it was sterics and it was ranting and raving. I think this is going to be exact opposite. I think this is going to be a snoozer. Well, I mean, uh, you know, Mike Pence makes Valium look like an upper. So, well, he, yeah, I mean, he's not Mr. Excitement. Yeah. Anyway, you know, under the best of circumstances, you know,
01:33:58
Speaker
And Kamala Harris, she's very, you know, restrained and she's very calm. But she's also, she's also a total badass too. So that's what I'm really looking forward to. I think that, no matter. I think that, you know, because they were, he was there, apparently Pence's team was complaining about the, the plexiglass shield to keep his plague written ass away from her. And I'm thinking by the end of this debate, he's going to be glad there's that plexiglass shield holding her back.
01:34:26
Speaker
Well, I expect she's going to go for the jugular. There's no doubt about that because she wants to definitely put a stake in the heart of this.
01:34:35
Speaker
you know, campaign period and make her mark, you know, like this is, tonight is her night to take it if she wants it. And she's, she's perfectly capable of taking it. Remember when she went after Biden? Yeah. Oh yeah. She wasn't taking no prisoners that night yet. And I imagine it's going to be the same thing tonight, you know, so, but we will see. Yeah.
01:35:01
Speaker
OK, so there we go. Come back next week. We'll talk about Into the Spider-Verse. And until then, if you see any presidents coming your way, you might want to run the other direction at this point. Absolutely. Playgrats all over the place. All right, thanks so much. And we will talk to you next time.
01:35:22
Speaker
Thank you for listening as always and as always end off with be safe, wash your hands, wear your mask. Good night and God bless.
01:35:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superheroescinephiles at gmail.com, or you can also visit us on the web at superheroescinephiles.com.
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Speaker
If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners. You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of pheasantudios.com.