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78: YES Moments - Worshiping When You Don’t Feel Like It
214 Plays2 years ago
Ryan Pfendler invited Pastor Chuck Schlie on the podcast to discuss the YES moment he had while listening to Pastor Chuck one Sunday morning. The YES moment was all about “feelings” and how that pertains to worship. One author Pastor Chuck referenced a couple of times in the message and on the podcast was Eugene H. Peterson.
You access the Pastor Chuck’s message on YouTube.
Take a listen as Ryan and Pastor Chuck discuss the YES moment Ryan had while listening to Pastor Chuck.
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Transcript
Jill Devine's Faith Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith.
Real Conversations on Faith
00:00:27
Speaker
The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
What are 'Yes Moments'?
00:00:41
Speaker
Guys, it's good to be here with you. This is Ryan, and I'm here with Pastor Chuck Schley here from Messiah. And if you've been listening to the podcast, you know that we're focusing on some new things. We've called it Yes Moments, and these are moments from sermons that when we hear them in our minds, we just think yes. Or if you grew up church like me, maybe the word is amen. This past
Commitment vs. Feelings in Worship
00:01:04
Speaker
Our pastor here at Messiah, Chuck, had a teaching that just made me say yes. It made me say amen. I think I even said it on stage. Chuck was teaching on worship. And what Chuck said was specifically a quote from Eugene Peterson. And he said that if Christians only worshiped when they felt like it, there would be precious little worship.
00:01:30
Speaker
And he moved on and he shared this other quote from Eugene Peterson. It said, we can act ourselves into a new way of feeling quicker than we can feel our way into acting. And so Chuck, I wondered if you could share with us just the power of that teaching. What does it mean for you when you read that? Why did it hit you so much that you wanted to share it?
00:01:55
Speaker
Okay, yeah, thank you for having me. And yeah, Eugene Praterson, way to go. That guy's a genius and I love ripping off his stuff because it makes me look smart. But it's a big idea and the concept is,
Commitment Beyond Worship
00:02:10
Speaker
you know, a lot of times we go with our feelings because we think if we don't feel it, it can't be real.
00:02:17
Speaker
And the problem is, feelings come and go. And I like feelings. I'm not against feelings. Feelings are great, but when it comes to... feelings are very fickle. You know, sometimes I feel this way, other times I might not feel this way. And I think when it comes to worship,
00:02:38
Speaker
would guess if I could put myself in other people's shoes, you kind of go, well, you kind of say to yourself, do I feel like going today? Do I feel like doing that? And really, it's not a great question because half the time it might be, no, I really don't feel like it.
00:02:57
Speaker
just like there's a lot of things in life where I really don't feel like doing it, but it's good for me if I do, such as, oh, loving my spouse, or going to work, just two examples. Yeah, yeah, no, I feel like you could replace so much. Yes, yes, not just worship, but that's what I use it for. If you only wanted to be a good dad when you felt like it.
00:03:19
Speaker
You wouldn't be a good dad all that often if you only want to be a good husband or a good co-worker when you felt like it. You wouldn't be good at those either. Right. When I was a student, I didn't feel like doing math or reading a book. It's good for you. So I'm curious, why do you think worshipping when you don't feel like it is so important?
00:03:41
Speaker
Because I believe going through the, if you lead with commitment, like if you commit yourself, let's just say in marriage to loving your spouse no matter what, your feelings will catch up. And I think it's the same way with worship.
00:03:57
Speaker
Um, we might not feel like going because either, Hey, I feel like sleeping in and I feel like doing something else. Um, but if you want a relationship with God, you commit to, uh, worshiping him. He says it pretty clear in his word. Uh, Hey, this would be good for you if you, if you spend time with me, um, and with other people worshiping, it's a good thing for you. And, uh, it will.
00:04:22
Speaker
nurture the relationship that we have. And so if you let your feelings lead, good luck. And so it's important to go with just being committed. And most good things happen out of a commitment. If you're committing yourself to raising kids or having a great marriage or
00:04:48
Speaker
moving up the ladder or fill in the blank, commitment is what actually will get the job done. And so, commit yourself to going to worship whether you feel like it or not, and then you find out afterwards or even maybe even during that, wow, that was really good. I feel, now I feel like that was a good thing for me to do.
Personal Challenges and Benefits of Worship
00:05:14
Speaker
I, when you were sharing this story, I was just thinking of all the moments that I, I mean, I work at a church and I've shown up on a Sunday and there's sometimes this moment, there are two moments. There's the moment when I'm about halfway between my car and the door that I'll realize
00:05:34
Speaker
Oh man, I just don't want to show up and walk in here and put on the fake church smile. Hey, how's it going? That type of attitude. I'm like, gosh, I just don't. Better than I want to be. Yeah, but I feel this pressure when I walk in.
00:05:51
Speaker
because I work here and I'm sure there's lots of people that don't work here that attend our church that maybe feel like, okay, well, it's got a time to turn on the nice Christian face for everyone. And I don't know, some Sundays you just don't feel like doing that. And then there's another moment when I,
00:06:09
Speaker
I'll walk in the door sometimes and I'll hear the music coming from the band as they're practicing and there's this feeling in me like, I don't want to sing today. I don't want to go to worship. Like the music I'm hearing is annoying to me, but I'm already here, so I guess I got to go.
00:06:29
Speaker
And then by the end of it, by the end of the service, by the end of the singing, by the end of the preaching, and when I'm there amongst other people, I'm like, oh wait a minute, now I'm so glad I came. I don't know, have you ever had a... Exactly,
What is Authentic Faith?
00:06:45
Speaker
oh sure, sure, sure I do. And that quote about, if you are waiting for the right feeling to come,
00:06:54
Speaker
Like, you might wait a really, really, really long time. It could be, you know, a whole month before you feel like walking on the door. And you're waiting for this feeling, what Eugene Peterson was saying was, no, no, no, act. And the feeling will catch up to you.
00:07:13
Speaker
And you can get there a lot quicker if you just act and walk in the door. Now, you don't have to put on a smiley face though, but I get it. I do that too. Do you ever, I mean, can you think of any moments from your time in ministry or, you know, we said this is true in so many areas of life.
00:07:37
Speaker
life as a father, your life as a husband. Um, can you think of a moment where you acted before you felt like acting? Yes, every day. So I would say, um, I, uh, personally, uh, funerals freak me out. Um, I don't, I don't ever feel like doing a funeral.
00:07:59
Speaker
But they're important and so I act. I personally don't really enjoy home visits. I really don't feel like going to lunch with people.
00:08:14
Speaker
Um, I guess I'm an introverted heart. So I, I don't, um, I would say hospital calls are not one of my favorite things to do. I don't ever feel like doing it. However, I will say, I, I'm going to say a hundred percent of the time after I do the funeral, after I do the home visit, after I do the hospital call, I always feel afterwards blessed and went, wow, that was really good.
00:08:41
Speaker
That was really good. I was glad I was there. I'm glad I did it but if you would ask me ahead of time and And if it was totally up to my feelings whether I wanted to or not, I wouldn't do any of those things Yeah, because they're kind of uncomfortable and you know and they're hard because people are going through a tough time and that's also that's yeah That's your job, dude. Yeah. Yeah I wonder if some of this right this feeling of I don't have to do it if I don't feel like it
00:09:10
Speaker
Hidden behind that word authenticity use that right like oh, I don't feel it so it's not authentic so I don't need to do it But I wouldn't say that when you're doing a funeral or when you're showing up to church You don't feel like that feel like it that you're being inauthentic. I wonder if we maybe have a bad of definition of authenticity
00:09:33
Speaker
Because I do understand, that's just a big word, especially for my generation. We use that word all the time. It's authentic. Right? And authentic worship means that, you know, while it's not authentic, if people don't have their hands raised, I don't know, we have these weird definitions of what authentic is. And it's all feelings based.
00:09:54
Speaker
But I would, I actually wonder if a more authentic faith is the person that does it when they're not feeling it. A more authentic husband is the husband that loves their spouse even when they don't feel like it. Because anyone can do something when they feel like doing it. I mean, that doesn't make you special. What makes you special and a good husband and a good father and a follower of Jesus is when you do the things you're called to do even when you don't feel like doing them.
00:10:22
Speaker
that was profound. And you're exactly right. Yeah, that was profound. Yeah, perhaps the word authentic has been hijacked a little bit. And we get our own head about my being real or my not and it's like, you know what, um,
00:10:38
Speaker
do it. I don't, you know, dads, you ever have to listen to your kid? When you really don't feel like it, you want to watch SportsCenter, you want to do something. Yeah. And you can just run this example 1000 times over. And it's not that feelings are bad. That's not it. It's not one's bad, one's good. It's just which one is going to lead the way.
00:11:01
Speaker
What needs to lead the way is the commitment to whatever that something is. God, spouse, job, children, not feelings. Feelings are great, but they need to take the back seat. That's all this is. Same way when it comes to worship. Yeah. You know, when I think about it, okay, I can picture being in the crowd on a Sunday morning service.
00:11:27
Speaker
And I could look over and see a guy standing alone, not singing, or standing with his family, not singing. And there's probably a judgmental part of my heart that thinks, well, this guy's just here for the show. He's not authentic. He's not here because he's feeling it.
00:11:43
Speaker
Know that I have had moments when I just don't even have the energy to sing or I don't have the desire to do it And yet it's simply the showing up It's like I know this is the place where I need to be and even if I don't feel like singing Maybe in that moment. I feel like I'm being sung over or maybe in that moment I feel like the the worship that's happening around me is
00:12:07
Speaker
I just need to experience that rather than participate in it. And so it's also reminded me that you can't judge someone based on what you see them doing always. Um, yeah. And you know, I think the stat is, and I don't know where I read it, but I used it last week, which was 50% of the people,
00:12:32
Speaker
who are in attendance at the worship service, we're thinking about not coming today. And I think we all wrestle with it. And then people show up and maybe it took them everything they had to walk in the door. Maybe it took them everything, because it could be intimidating, or maybe they're, well, everyone's going through something. And maybe that was, man, the best I could do is show up and just stand there like,
00:13:00
Speaker
like a zombie, and that is the best he can do or she can do.
From Actions to Genuine Feelings
00:13:04
Speaker
Awesome. Awesome. And let God work the good and just be open and available to letting him catch those feelings up.
00:13:15
Speaker
Mmm, maybe the the way to see this is that showing up and in acting showing up and worshiping when you don't feel like it Being a good father when you don't feel like it being a good husband when you don't feel like it It's a long about forgiveness Forgive me, you know jerks. Yeah, who wants to do that? No
00:13:36
Speaker
nobody know what I don't care what you know and I said the Bible weighs precious little time on the way we feel that's a quote from Eugene Peterson again it's like yeah Jesus not too concerned about if you feel like forgiving the one who hurts you or your enemy or no he's just as do it it'll be good for you it'll be good yeah same way with worship
00:14:01
Speaker
And it's a reminder that we're playing a long game here, that just because it's not this way this week, just because that person's not feeling a certain way this week or next week or the week after, I always believe that
00:14:18
Speaker
What is your life going to look like in a year? I would rather them come for a year and look inauthentic and be transformed in God's timing than be guilted for not looking authentic and never coming back. And that reminds me of my dear dad who is now in heaven. Can't wait to see him again. But when we grew up,
00:14:40
Speaker
We were in every Sunday kind of family. And let me tell you, I didn't feel like going. It was not that much fun. Not that church has to be fun, but not saying it doesn't have to. Yeah.
00:14:56
Speaker
Nothing wrong with fun, too. But I didn't, as a child, or as an adolescent, or as a teenager, I didn't feel like going, but that was one of the best gifts my dad gave me, was the, just, it is ingrained in me. Sunday, if I wake up, and I'm breathing, and my eyes are open, I gotta worship. I got to. I know it's bad English, but I have to.
00:15:22
Speaker
because that was just instilled in me as a part of my DNA now it's something my dad you know fostered in my life and I'm really thankful for it so I've never I know I'm a pastor so it's a little bit different they pay me to show up but
00:15:37
Speaker
If I wasn't a pastor, I will tell you, I would be somewhere, you know, if there's a worship service, I just would. It is just a part of my life. I have to, have to. I have to give it and I have to receive it. And my dad gave that to me because he didn't give us a choice. I'm really thankful for it now. Yeah. But I'll tell you then,
00:15:59
Speaker
No, no, no, no. So maybe I just think about a pathway to acting your way into the feeling. And so maybe if you think about it in a practical pathway sense, if you don't even want to show up to church, if that feeling is not even there, maybe you just show up
00:16:23
Speaker
for a few Sundays and you don't sing, but you just sit there and you listen and you participate and you let that worship service be a service to you. Okay. But then after a few weeks, then you start singing even when you're not feeling like it. So now you've shown up after a few weeks of showing up and sitting and listening, then maybe you start singing and then maybe
00:16:49
Speaker
I don't know, in God's timing, taking those small steps of simply showing up and then starting to sing will act you into, oh my gosh, this is the best day of the week for me. And let God do the work on you instead of, you know, just, I think if you just
00:17:12
Speaker
You know, act your way in the door. Let the Lord, He loves you. And He wants you to be blessed and fed and feel good and all that. And so, you know, maybe take a little pressure off how you're supposed to be. Just let Him do His thing which is love you and, you know, go from there.
00:17:37
Speaker
excellent concept, and it's really big. I tried to slow it down during that message. I'm like, I really want you all to get this. I even said it. I'm like, let's just slow down and read this again.
00:17:52
Speaker
I'll leave you with this one more time. We can act ourselves into a new way of feeling much quicker than we can feel ourselves into a new way of acting. So if you're looking for a new way, maybe you're stuck.
00:18:11
Speaker
and you're waiting for feelings, stop waiting. Get after it and act. And again, this is from Eugene Peterson. He wrote this great little book called A Long Obedience in the Same Direction. And I recommend it highly. Great book on discipleship in an instant society. Awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Thanks for the good words, Chuck. Appreciate your time today. My pleasure. Thank you.