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How Harmony Williams Transformed Her Life with Plant Medicine
70 Plays1 year ago
This week’s guest Harmony Williams has one heck of a story. I was in total awe of how open & vulnerably she shared with us her recent decision to transition in faith from the Mormon church to then get this… choose to consciously and intentionally begin working with plant medicine and psychedelics. Talk about a plot twist 🌪️
Her story is so brave, so fascinating & this episode is for anyone that has been called forth to be a rebel in their family, faith and reimagine their entire life on their terms.
Please give Harmony some love and follow her podcast/IG @lifechangingtrips🫶
Listen in and come along to be moved by Harmony sharing:
Trigger Warning: this discussion entails mentions of abuse & trauma if this is triggering please SKIP ahead or skip entirely and take care of your mental health
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Transcript
Introduction to Harmony Williams
00:00:15
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Welcome back. I am queuing up for you today a very intimate, raw conversation. Our guest is Harmony Williams, and she is sharing her story of leaving the Mormon faith to now being a plant medicine integration guide.
00:00:37
Speaker
She is so vulnerable and open about her struggles of mom life and in her relationships and how she has seen such profound transformation not only in her own life but in the lives of others with the use of plant medicine.
00:00:57
Speaker
Before we get started, it is necessary that I read a disclaimer. I will also say that this episode does have some triggering potentially content around sexual abuse. So if that at all does not feel good to you, please skip this one and we'll see you next time. Dive in and listen to this conversation with Harmony.
Disclaimer and Content Warning
00:01:21
Speaker
Disclaimer. All the content in this episode is for informational and educational entertainment and harm reduction purposes only. The Feel Good with Renee podcast and Harmony Williams, their affiliates and guests are not doctors or mental health professionals or legal advisors. Any information shared is not meant to treat, diagnose or claim cures for any physical conditions or mental illness.
00:01:51
Speaker
There are serious contraindications with various health conditions and pharmaceutical medications. The views of the guests are not the opinion and views of the Feel Good With Renee podcast. There is sensitive and possibly triggering topics in this episode, including sexual abuse. Please make your mental health a top priority.
00:02:12
Speaker
And if this is triggering, please do not listen. Also do your own research, know your local laws and be informed, remembering that you are 100% responsible for your actions and subsequent consequences. Psychedelics and sacred plant medicines are not for everyone, even when done legally.
Harmony’s Podcast and Plant Medicine Journey
00:02:34
Speaker
You can find Harmony on her podcast called Life Changing Trips. And she also facilitates self-love or retreats and workshops. And all of that information can be found her Instagram at Life Changing Trips or at Harmony Williams on Facebook.
00:02:55
Speaker
I'm so grateful that she share so openly about her background and the transformational path that her life has taken. Enjoy. And I will see you next time. Welcome, Harmony. I'm so grateful that you could set aside some time to speak to me today and to share your voice with the audience and the listener. I was on your podcast last week and had such a good time connecting. Yes. I know. I had a good time too.
00:03:25
Speaker
and listening to more episodes of yours. I'm on the human design kick now. I'm like, I gotta figure this out. I gotta go in deeper. Oh, I love it. It is. It's really cool. Yeah. So your podcast is called Life Changing Trips, right? Yes.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, such a juicy title. I love that. And you probably have come across, or if you haven't, you know that I have a episode with my own experience about microdosing psilocybin. And when I saw the topic that you speak about and I felt a resonance with that, I felt aligned with that in my own personal experience. And I was just so curious to get to know you better.
00:04:10
Speaker
And to hear how you came into this being a passion of yours and helping people with this information and letting them know. So would you mind starting off by giving us the background? How did you come to be hosting this podcast? What was that journey like for you?
Faith Transition and Family Dynamics
00:04:29
Speaker
Oh man, okay, I'm two. So I was raised Mormon, so the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I did all the things in that, got married. I was very strong in faith, very into it, and followed those rules, repented if I didn't follow the rules. And let's see.
00:04:52
Speaker
had a faith transition a few years ago. And that was a really fun time. I had some great life coaches. There's people that really struggle with this. And I had some help that was priceless to me. And I'd been doing life coaching for a while. And that really helped me as my kids were, say they were doing things that in the religion maybe
00:05:17
Speaker
Maybe they didn't want to go to church or they didn't, they were drinking or something like this or getting a tattoo and it's no life will be ruined. And you have, this is terrible. The life coaching helps me.
00:05:31
Speaker
just figure out what was mine, process through that, love them and let them have their own journey, not need to force them to do it my way. And the way I thought was the only correct way because that's what we are taught. This is the only way to do life. So that's the back background. So this is powerful. This transition is happening and it,
00:05:58
Speaker
I didn't expect to tell any of my face story but here goes because my husband ended up starting to research and feeling very.
00:06:09
Speaker
passionate about some things he was finding out and it scared the shit out of me because I had this happy little life with all the rules and all the things and that was a lot of self-work to go through. That process with him was actually a really incredible gift to our marriage because many couples will let that pull them apart.
00:06:31
Speaker
drive a wedge in between them when one of them is choosing to stay in a religion. I'm in that space, I'm in those groups, so I see it a lot because there's hundreds of people in these groups and even in my neighborhood that are going through this where one spouse leaves the religion and the other one stays in and it's really hard. And maybe this is why I needed to talk about this because this has been on my mind a little. I just had somebody
00:06:58
Speaker
call me this morning and tell me that this wasn't my suggestion to them, just so you know, never said anything about this to them, but on their very own and they know I'm safe to talk about this. They just had an MDMA experience with their spouse and it'd been a rough marriage and getting better and better though, as they're opening up.
00:07:17
Speaker
being conscious of things. But this experience with him, just life-changing, just incredible. The most incredible experience, incredible week. And she sent, not sent, but allowed her husband to go off for an undetermined amount of time by himself to figure out who he is. And I'm like,
00:07:37
Speaker
Wow, so cool. I just want to stop for a second because I'm just taking in what you're sharing and I'm like blown away. First of all, you went from a traditional, I'm assuming lineage of passed down tradition and very deep rooted religious beliefs.
From Mormonism to Plant Medicine
00:07:54
Speaker
And you are light and you're unassuming in terms of being just, I feel like I could see you on the soccer field is what I'm saying. And then you transitioned and being more open-minded to allowing the potency of plant medicine to take you through a major life transition. Am I getting it right?
00:08:15
Speaker
And i won't take all the credit i don't think my mind would have been opened to that and this is i don't wanna focus today on this part of the story but my daughter had been sexually abused and she was depressed and she was suicidal and medications working. Therapy was okay and that was probably the only reason that stage and maybe now had someone like me that was like.
00:08:39
Speaker
a normalish person and saying, no, let me tell you what this really is and let me tell you my experiences, then I probably would have been open to it. But at that point in time, it took like needing to research this and what are the negative side effects? What about the long term and all that for my daughter? Yeah.
00:08:58
Speaker
Cause it was a possibility and they're doing the research now on it for depression, for PTSD, for all these different smoking cessation. But I do want to finish the MDMA story. Please. Um, just really fast for guests because sometimes we throw out these things and I know what they were three years ago or four years ago, but I'm just throwing them out willy nilly. The is
00:09:21
Speaker
like the clinical pure version of molly or ecstasy. And ecstasy more denotes a partying thing that might be laced with other things. And they were before everything got shut down using this in couples therapy. Now the clinical trials that they're doing, and there's one in Las Vegas right now that people can look for is for PTSD. And they are finding incredible results for PTSD with MDMA.
00:09:51
Speaker
It is something that you don't want to just be thrown around it is chemically addictive whereas mushrooms and psilocybin and lsd are not chemically addictive. It was last time i looked it was like a month away of being fda approved for this clinical.
00:10:09
Speaker
Therapy, right? Okay. Then this other couple, they were a mixed faith marriage. One had left, one hadn't. The wife was like, I have so much resentment. They were just staying together for the kids, really. I have so much resentment for him. He ruined my life. This was my plan. We were going to heaven together. We were married in the temple and now it's ruined.
00:10:32
Speaker
Like he's ruined my eternal salvation, right? So she was holding so much resentment towards him and They did an MDMA experience together and she said I Felt that resentment leave my body like I just threw it out the window and I was like she was able to open up and drop her defenses and just see him and see this journey he's been on and his heart and I
00:11:00
Speaker
I think in my religion, there's this bigger picture we don't understand. And I'm like, you know what, the God I believe in, you're both good people and not gonna punish this good person. I don't believe in punishment at all, really. It's just an experience we're experiencing and choosing. And there has to be the negative. There has to be this shame or we wouldn't,
00:11:28
Speaker
have reason to be really, but to need each other or come together and...
00:11:37
Speaker
I don't know. It's so much bigger, right? It's not just he decided to leave the church and so now my eternal
Questioning Beliefs and Finding Love
00:11:43
Speaker
salvation is... Absolutely. Fifty-five hundred shades of gray in there. There is a lot to be said for people starting to open up their eyes and appreciate outside of... We're seeing this transition outside of people coming out of the stigmas of religion or starting to question what we have always thought and
00:12:04
Speaker
It's so refreshing to see that there's a possibility, like for the couple you're mentioning, where they were able to come together as opposed to potentially if they had maybe not gone that route, it could have ended in a much more dysfunctional and harsh way. So I'm totally interested in everything you're sharing. I think that this is so timely because more and more, I don't know much about the Mormon faith, but I know it from a
00:12:34
Speaker
perimeter perspective of I built a business with the company do Terra. There's a lot of people that are affiliated with that as a Mormon based founders of that company or Mormon. So I I've been to Salt Lake City many times. I'm totally a and I've always been fascinated actually by the Mormon faith in particular because of so many reasons and it's such beautiful and nice people and just welcoming people but
00:12:58
Speaker
I don't know the inside and the inner workings. And so thank you for sharing a little bit about that and a little bit about the possibilities that you're seeing from your very unique perspective of being in that faith and now transitioning into this passion of sharing plant medicine with people.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I agree with you, wonderful people. They're wonderful people. And I always knew that. There are good people inside the church. There are good people outside the church. Like I knew that. And I think that most everybody, it's just where they're at, right? Everyone's trying to do better usually, and they don't know any better if they're not. But most everyone in there is just trying to do the very best that they can, right? They're trying to be good parents. They're trying to be good people.
00:13:40
Speaker
I love them and I love the faith and I had a great childhood and upbringing and there's so many beautiful things that are in.
00:13:51
Speaker
all religions, really. There are a lot of, at its core, people – the reason why they're created, I think, is this beautiful seed. And sometimes there's a lot of things that get skewed in the process as it grows and builds. But I think – thanks for letting me talk about that a little bit, and I am open to other questions about it. But just going back to this transition really fast that helped
00:14:17
Speaker
my husband and I grow and so he's leaving. I'm staying in the church and we had to decide if we were going to make this something that we are going to fight daily about, that we were going to have this big thorn in our marriage, or if we were just going to love each other and allow them to have their own paths and their own journey. And he
00:14:41
Speaker
I was trying to figure out how to do this, and he released me to that and just said, if you're happy, then you should stay, and I'm not going to tell you that you're burying your head in the sand and you're being ignorant or stupid or whatever, if that makes you happy. And he meant it, and it was so relieving to me to just breathe and exhale finally.
00:15:06
Speaker
And it didn't mean we didn't talk about issues. And that is actually something I loved because he was very closed off about a lot of things. And we started talking about these issues. And I was like, this is incredible. Let's keep talking. So because I was so starving for that emotional connection with him, I didn't care if it was talking about Joseph Smith's wives, if it was talking about whatever. I was just like, let's dig into this.
00:15:31
Speaker
talk and I think that opened me up to actually looking instead of keeping blinders on and saying that's just a lie or whatever but let's actually look the I exhaled for a minute and then I was like oh shit I really got a look and see I've seen enough that
00:15:47
Speaker
there's some questions in my mind I want answered. And I really have to do this myself. I have to figure out all on my own, and I really kept praying and meditating and staying close to my connection with my higher power. And it was really incredible. But I think one of the bigger things in that story too is me releasing him from needing to save him, from him leaving the church or not,
00:16:14
Speaker
and trying to hang on to that control and just, it came, I'm trying to find the right word because I have some spiritual words and some non-spiritual words, but it came as like a wave of truth over my body that he is, and it was after a prayer meditation, but he is on his perfect path and he is supposed to lead the church.
00:16:40
Speaker
And from that point onward, since it was through my body, because I could know that logically, of course, he's on his own path. But until you feel it and it actually the emotion leaves your body, it was so easy after that. I wasn't hanging on and clinging on any change he would make. It was just like, yeah, I'm good. That's his choice. He's supposed to do this. This is part of his path.
00:17:06
Speaker
So that was pretty incredible and had nothing to do with plant medicine and any
Parenting Through Faith Transition
00:17:10
Speaker
of that. I was going to ask if that had entered into the equation at all at that point or if this was just your own work and being present. And I'm really inspired by what you're sharing because it's not easy. Obviously I've been married for almost 19 years. It's not easy to share space with someone if your values are
00:17:29
Speaker
Unique if you're you're coming at things from very different perspectives. My husband and I see things quite differently and It's very refreshing to hear that you were able to release that and allow him to have
00:17:44
Speaker
really his own path and freedom and also not run and not make him wrong or all these things that can be such a triggered reaction. How long was that process? He had been like partially active for about 10 years and so I'd been with my life coach working through this like, no, and same with my kids. It was like,
00:18:05
Speaker
You'd go to church and it'd be like, you're responsible. You are their steward. You are responsible for teaching them. And if they don't, and then the husband's role in this and I'm like, no, you should be doing this, honey. And you should, funny patriarchy comes into play there because I was like, you should be taking.
00:18:22
Speaker
patriarchy over me. I was like forcing him into this patriarchy role, which is so weird, but that's what I was told you're supposed to do, right? And he's, I don't want it. I don't want to give blessings. I don't want this responsibility. I don't want, I don't want it. And then my kids were like questioning or how do we know we have the right God and it's not one of these other gods and just lots of social things usually come up for the kids first and really necessarily why I left, but
00:18:50
Speaker
the blacks not getting the priesthood till the year i was born nineteen seventy eight and the lgbtq stuff and transgender is really big hot topic right now i strongly support people in the lgbtq community and i felt in the church.
00:19:09
Speaker
I personally, the church maybe had some weird stuff going on, but I personally could love them and accept them. And so I was good with that even while being in the church. But anyway, parenting, I was going through a transition before that. And then my husband started looking deeper into something.
00:19:25
Speaker
couple months that he was researching and we were talking and there was this dissonance. And it would get coached and go the dissonance. I was like, okay, I'm good. Good. This is his. And then they'd come back again. And then so a couple months, he leaves. I'm like, woohoo, I'm free. I can just be in the church. But wait, I got to decide for myself. Nevermind. I now the anxiety is back. And then that was a couple months.
00:19:48
Speaker
And I followed my heart. I was like so in touch and in tune and talking directly with God that I didn't, I don't feel like.
00:19:56
Speaker
I was ever alone in the dark night of the soul so much, and people describe. So it was pretty fast, a couple months basically, and right after felt really connected and good with where I was at and what I was choosing. Anyway, so moving past the faith transition story, but I think it needed to come out for somebody to even just if you're not faith transitioning that working with your spouse.
00:20:22
Speaker
And how long ago was that? I'm not like a super linear person. I cannot tell you like dates. It was right after we moved here. So I do have a date, July 2019. Okay, so a few years. So fairly fresh. And the time I went to church was like close for COVID in March of 2020. And that was probably the last time I went to church, so.
00:20:41
Speaker
You had a question. I was just going to say like how has your life transformed since what was that? What hasn't been like? Incredible. That's for me. I'm like, you guys stop wallowing in this like crap here. Just make your decision. Talk to God whichever way it is. Stay or go. It doesn't matter. Like people who are in this faith crisis, right? This is tried. I don't tell it to people like that. I don't diminish their what they're going through and how hard it is when your whole life is being torn apart.
00:21:11
Speaker
But it was so much fun. It was like, who am I? Who are you? You can find out who you are too, honey. Like the kids. Who are you guys? Why don't? Let's figure this out. I don't know. Do I want to go to this drum circle? My heart says yes. So I'm going to a drum circle. That sounds whatever. Crazy. I'm just.
00:21:28
Speaker
all of this stuff like I can't even know I want to go back to like my journal kind of thing those days because it's still so long ago that was just and this couple said it to the MDMA one they were like it's life before I divide my life in two segments like life before plant medicine and MDMA and psilocybin and life after
00:21:47
Speaker
So it was still just an exciting time of self discovery and who are we as a couple and what are we as a family? And we're just having these open conversations with our kids about these issues that are in that they've been taught their whole life in the church or they've been fighting their whole life in the church and just like laughing and playing music and everybody in our families are just dancing. We're the teenagers and we're just being silly and we're sitting around. I was like, I did not know that when I opened myself up to love myself and then I let that
00:22:19
Speaker
expand out to my family and just I'm I love you. You want to get a tattoo? That's your choice. And I'll like I'll go through my own stuff about this. But I don't I love you. Like I had just this so much closer to unconditional love than I'd ever experienced before. And that really shifted in my journey. But it was a fun period even before that just who
00:22:41
Speaker
What do we believe? Like, let's discover this. Just who are we as a couple? Then we discover plant myths. And I told you, since someone handed me the book, how to change your mind for my daughter. And I ended up having a journey.
First Plant Medicine Journey
00:22:55
Speaker
And this, I was actually at a place, I'm thinking all this fun that I'm talking about right now in unconditional love, it probably was really spurred on from this plant medicine journey. Because I was really in a place of I've been parenting like 20 years and I had a kid still in
00:23:16
Speaker
potty training. I'm still changing poopy underwear. And I am like, I'm done with this. Who told me I had to have five kids to be a worthy human being and that I needed to get married when I was 20 and start having babies immediately and never live my own damn life and decide who I was? So there was a little bit of that energy as I left, a little bit of, wait, why did I just listen to this? Even people in the church don't just
00:23:45
Speaker
I have friends who don't have five kids, and I think they're perfectly normal people, but I internalize certain things. In our sex life too, we talk about it now, we're like, why did we think it was not okay to talk about this and to like research this, like how to have an orgasm for a woman. Neither of us knew, but we didn't feel okay to like research this, like so ridiculous. Anyway, so all these things were coming out, but this
00:24:10
Speaker
Right before this plant medicine journey, I was just really in like midlife crisis depression.
00:24:17
Speaker
and not wanting to be a mom anymore. Like I just was like, I want to do something for myself. I don't want to just keep laundry and dishes and change diapers and run the carpool and like I'm tired and I want to give something to myself. Yeah, so do. So we were living in that space of just that we're stuck here. So I guess we're just going to be the martyr and trudge through and
00:24:43
Speaker
finish this parenting thing off because we're not going to give them away. And really, if you're a kid and for us as parents, how fun is that to be parented by a mom who's just trudging through and being the martyr for you and going to finish parenting because she made the decision. That's terrible.
00:25:01
Speaker
So it wants to be parented by that. It was awful. Absolutely. The plant medicine journey, and this was a full journey. So tell us what... I'm going to interrupt you really quickly because I just want to bring the listener up to speed. What is your...
00:25:18
Speaker
definition of a journey. Fill us in on what that means. Okay, so I will go into details about dosage or anything. We don't want to be like recommending something to people. So Johns Hopkins, the work they're doing with depression and expansion and mystical experiences, all those types of things, they, what's the name, something dose?
00:25:37
Speaker
A therapeutic dope is I've read the research on it. I want to say around 2.5 grams depending on body weight for the person that that would be of psilocybin magic mushrooms. Also studies being done on LSD and that's totally different system but it's a very similar experience. LSD is known as acid and that's a street name for it and it is grown on ergot. It's a fungus grown on ergot.
00:26:04
Speaker
wheat basically, and it is just taken from that. It's a little more chemical, so some people think of it differently than psilocybin, but very similar. As I dug into these studies from my daughter, what I found was like,
00:26:24
Speaker
We've been lied to. It was actually a similar feeling as the church. It's like we've been made to believe these certain things and not even go look at that. Don't even go look at that. That is bad. Sex and drugs are bad. So the government did it great.
00:26:44
Speaker
schmear campaign, propaganda campaign also with the don't do drugs in the dairy and all of this stuff. And when you go actually looking at the research, even research that was done 40 years ago or what in the 60s and 70s, it's, oh, this isn't what they make it sound like it is.
Plant Medicine vs Pharmaceuticals
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. There are dangers. There are contraindications with other medications. There are dangers. There are
00:27:09
Speaker
Psychiatric dangers and people that may never be able or want to take these substances and it's not for everybody at all times but as I looked at the research and I found the negative side effects the they're like less than
00:27:25
Speaker
all the supplements and medication in my cover and my half of our processed food. And they're not addictive. I'm just looking at it and I'm like, so the side effects are that you want to go for walks more and healthier. Wait, what are the other side effects?
00:27:41
Speaker
Okay, I floaters. Okay, I can see that that could be a problem for people. What are the other side effects? And it's all people usually just feel a little happier and more joyful, like it's insane. The propaganda around your point, I feel like a lot of our world is upside down world, I call it where
00:28:00
Speaker
Everything that you are told is good, you should definitely research. It doesn't take digging too deep when you hear the list of side effects on your television for every pharmaceutical. And then anything that is deemed tabooed perhaps is worth further investigation and discernment on your own personal path.
00:28:25
Speaker
And the reason being, and I think this is what you're speaking to, is that life can be enhanced by
00:28:37
Speaker
exploring these alternative quote-unquote, although becoming more and what I love about your voice in this is yeah, we're moving into a place where this is becoming more acceptable and less taboo and a place that actually can have lasting benefit on relationships. Oh, yes. On your mental well-being because you were saying I relate to this, you go through the motions, you do all the
00:29:05
Speaker
day in, day out monotonous chores that go along with the role of most mothers or being in charge of domestic responsibilities. And then perhaps your counterpart is playing the role of going through the motions with high stress jobs or corporate commitments and all of that day in and day out. And so sparking joy and bringing joy back into our life
00:29:35
Speaker
Like, why shouldn't we look at that deeper or explore that option? Because this is it. It's not, we're not gonna get to some magical destination in life and all of a sudden it's gonna be rainbows and butterflies. It's actually everyday life that can be enhanced. I'm getting from what you were saying about your story of being a mom and having, oh my gosh, I can't imagine five children. And just all that requires, all that you have to show up and are called forth to handle
00:30:04
Speaker
So I'm loving this because I'm, first of all, totally get it. Totally feel where you're coming from with that. But tell us about like,
00:30:13
Speaker
that joy that this has brought into your life and how that has enhanced your relationship with yourself, your relationship with other people, as a mom, I want to know.
Deepening Family Connections
00:30:25
Speaker
Yes. Yes. That is the biggest thing. So in that first experience, I experienced my loved ones souls. So all my children, my husband, it's so hard to explain, but I
00:30:43
Speaker
felt who they were and their essence of their being. And it's to such a deep level that it's indescribable. It was so beautiful, tears just streaming down my face as I went from one child to the next. And I saw my husband's heart and I saw his essence in a way I'd never felt before. And I'm looking at their uniqueness and their amazingness. And it was just like,
00:31:12
Speaker
my whole heart is filled with love and joy. And I am like, this is it's so funny. It's so cute that human harmony thought that she was doing these kids a favor by sticking it out and parenting them when they are like this gift. They're this gift. And
00:31:31
Speaker
they are who why I'm, you know, who I am. So that was a really incredible realization. And that journey is very, I want to say sacred to me. And the change that I had after just
00:31:50
Speaker
Like I was in like the ninth dimension or whatever, you know, sometimes you're feeling good and you're on like a little higher frequency and you're feeling whatever instead of in the third dimension, you're like in the fifth dimension or something. I was like way above that. And my heart, it stayed open. It was like when people have sometimes near death experience, really the closest I can describe it. And sometimes that veil.
00:32:12
Speaker
stays open, then they can have this connection to the other side. And I felt like that heart opening, that joy, it just stayed open for months. And I was like the best version of myself. And it doesn't feel fake. It's not like someone's just like making you happy when you're not, right? It feels like the truest
00:32:32
Speaker
essence of your soul, who I really am authentically, the joy, the understanding of the ups and the downs and those highs and those lows and how, you know, your child's throwing a fit and it's, yeah, he's experiencing his human, this is beautiful. This is, it's okay for him to be sad about this. It's okay for me to be sad about this. And
00:32:55
Speaker
I was spending my time where I needed to spend it. With ADHD and just maybe my personality, I've never really been able to feel like I've been present. There's always all these things trying to draw my attention and I'm there with somebody, but I can't quite focus on them because I know there's all these other things.
00:33:15
Speaker
I can't, that's the best way to describe it because that sounded really scattered and that's how I feel sometimes. And we'll get to microdosing and ADHD studies that they have and how awesome that is, but just was present. I was present with myself and the love and the care I needed to take for myself. Decisions were always hard for me. It was like, oh, I shouldn't leave my family to go do this thing for me. That's bad. And all these, what should I do? And it was just like,
00:33:45
Speaker
Yes, that's where, yes, I'm supposed to go to this meditation. And yes, I'm going to not go to that sound bowl experience, even though it sounds incredible, because I'm supposed to be here with my family. Like it was so easy to know in my heart. And when I was with my teenagers,
00:34:01
Speaker
and we'd go to the pond or our little secret waterfall place that my son wanted to go to on his birthday, my teenager, and just spend time with me. That's what he wanted to do on his birthday. It was so neat. Oh, I love that. And my heart was just open to them. I didn't really even have to say anything, but I felt like I was more in tune to just what to say when I did or not what to say, but I was just there for them and they knew the heart was open.
00:34:32
Speaker
I have a teenager too and I have this theory that you're somewhat speaking to about when I'm in my heart and I have my guard down and I have my defenses down and I'm not trying to project or control or be hard on her.
00:34:54
Speaker
It's like we have this heart connection that is indescribable. And it speaks to, again, taking down that stigma of teenagers. What is that about where people are like, oh, people just unconsciously saying things about how teenagers wear, so they're so hard. I absolutely, if that is your experience, I think it comes back to your heart being closed and you being shut down. And I just, that has been one of
00:35:20
Speaker
the most exciting things for me as a mom is what you're speaking to, of having a heart-centered connection with the wisdom and all that is my teenager. It is beyond a gift. It is amazing. So I have chills that you said that because I feel so, I'm like, wow, again, another example of something that we've been told that is absolutely not necessarily true or doesn't have to be.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yes, the teenagers are incredible when you let them.
00:35:51
Speaker
figure themselves out and be themselves. And you just love them wherever they're at, even if they're in the mess of it. Because guess what? I've been in the mess of it a lot in my life. And you need to love yourself through that and love them through that. And like you said, such a good point in all of this. Anytime with the life coaching, what it taught me is anytime I'm looking at someone else and thinking they need to change something or they're not showing up for me or whatever,
00:36:17
Speaker
my husband's not spending enough time with me.
Microdosing Benefits and Personal Experiences
00:36:19
Speaker
Am I spending enough time doing the things I love with me? Or my kid's not cleaning enough, right? Then it's, oh.
00:36:26
Speaker
Am I clean doing my chores enough? No, not really. That's why I'm frustrated at his thing. And I've had some deeper experiences with that, but I won't go into it too much. But on a microdose, releasing some resentment against my son that I've been working through and working through on, I do the Byron Katie work, if you're familiar with that. And logically, I can get there sometimes, but that deep feeling it and releasing the emotion.
00:36:52
Speaker
So can I ask what specific plant medicine was that initial journey on where you felt was so transformational? Was that? Psilocybin. That was psilocybin. Yeah. Yeah. And is that, have you experimented with any other plant medicine or is that kind of your preference?
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, a little bit, but the magic mushroom psilocybin, if people don't know, that's what that is. That's mostly it. And just a little like nerdy info, or if people are interested, the psilocybin journeys are about four to six hours. Yeah, LSD journeys, although I said they're similar in feeling, I actually haven't done a full LSD experience, just microdosed it, but from what I have read and heard from other people. But it's in hours.
00:37:36
Speaker
So doing a full journey on LSD doesn't really fit into things so well. You've got to set aside some time to do that. Same like Ayahuasca, they usually do several nights of it and it's this whole thing. Anyway, they're all very unique and powerful.
00:37:56
Speaker
And I encourage people to be intentional. That's right. Just very intentional when they're using any of those things. Yeah, I had a few LSD journeys that when I was really young, I don't know, again, that were definitely not intentional. And I have a little bit of hesitation to try any that that particular medicine, just again, for my own history of it. But I
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah. As I've spoke to before that the micro dosing of the psilocybin for me personally and being I'm somewhat I am a sensitive person so for me that feels so again aligned and it's not a journey where maybe you're going as deep but it certainly is helping me in my everyday life. Yeah. So much. Yeah. And you were going to speak to that micro dosing, can you? Yes.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, the microdosing has helped anywhere from, and I've heard of other people microdosing MDMA. Also for one guy said he did that for a hard conversation with his mom where he just wanted his defenses to be down in his heart to be open, which I was fascinated and never heard of that. But microdosing
00:39:03
Speaker
For me, I've had those experiences where I'm able to release resentment and process through something and improve those relationships because it helps drop your ego. And that when I talk about defensiveness, that's what I'm talking about. Like my ego wanting to come up and be like, no, I'm not. You're wrong. I'm right. Whatever. But just the day-to-day, so I'll give you my
00:39:29
Speaker
First microdosing experience, I took it, I forgot that I took this little capsule and I got to five or six o'clock and I just spent a normal day work, kids, laundry. I was doing the dishes and I'm putting dishes in and I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, like I have dishes and a dishwasher in this beautiful home. This is incredible. I'm just doing dishes.
00:39:52
Speaker
What an incredible life i have today has been such a really good day just a really good day and i was like what happened today. To make it a really good day and i was looking for a thing that happened right to the friend come over and bring me flowers or go to lunch but i didn't go to lunch with anybody or i was trying to find this thing i was like nothing out of the ordinary.
00:40:12
Speaker
Just a boring old day that, and then I was like, oh, there's a book by Islet Wadman and it's called A Really Good Day and it's her experiences with microdosing and she used to be a prosecutor. She would drug an alcohol prosecutor and she was suicidal and she talks about the first time she microdosed.
00:40:33
Speaker
Why she did cuz she wanted to be alive she was the sole caretaker of her true daughter she didn't want to commit suicide but she hadn't seen joy and She she does that so when I said those words to myself just had a really good day I was like oh I took that little capsule and what I describe it as is a
00:40:53
Speaker
caffeine for the soul. It's actually less addictive than caffeine. So cannabis isn't chemically addictive, but it is pretty habit forming. They've actually found magic mushrooms or psilocybin microdosing to be non-habit forming. It's not something that people are
00:41:11
Speaker
using and it's okay to use long term, your resistance goes up, but you have to see do a protocol and take little breaks, but not habit forming. I love what you said about, and it came to me when you were talking about doing the dishes and just having them being in the moment. And I feel like for me, it's like that, it was like, yes, like that appreciation amplifier, appreciation for what is
00:41:36
Speaker
And just being in the moment of what is and not wanting to escape or run, it allows you to just appreciate.
00:41:45
Speaker
with your heart, like you said, caffeine for the soul. That is exactly the perfect way to put it. I take less than 70 milligrams of caffeine, one to two times per week. So I'm very intentional with my caffeine, what I put into my body, right? And I notice sometimes I don't take it for weeks and then I do and I'm like caffeine, right? And it changes your state, right? And I think
00:42:15
Speaker
That is really, it's really a good idea because people don't understand. They're like, I don't want to get addicted to it. I'm like, okay, get addicted to Adderall, but this isn't the same thing. This is different. You're not, there's not a downside, right? There's not huge downsides for most people.
00:42:30
Speaker
We will need to put a disclaimer at the first of this that I'm not a doctor and I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a mental health professional and this is not advice. When it just... Okay, back to the caffeine. Caffeine for your soul. It doesn't feel like it is covering up something or it is putting something fake into me. It feels like it's stripping away all of the
00:42:51
Speaker
stuff that's put on from the outside of what we should look like and should be and how a good mom is. It's just bringing me back to my essence of who I truly am. It feels like it's showing me that gratitude that's underneath that I'm able to feel. So it's really hard to describe until someone has tried it, right? Like how do you describe chocolate? How do you describe?
00:43:13
Speaker
But it is incredible and it's a little deeper. So caffeine, it lifts my mood and it gives me some energy and I want to get the house clean and go out for a walk too. That's how you feel. It gives you a little energy. You want to go out for a walk. You want to play with your kid. You want to live life. You want to enjoy life.
00:43:30
Speaker
And, but the joy to me feels a little more, the caffeine's
Authenticity and Family Impact
00:43:35
Speaker
a little happy. And this feels like a depth of joy to me. A deeper feeling of gratitude and joy and appreciation for life. I feel like this is reaffirming. It's so fascinating. I just love that you are in this space and talking about this because it takes a certain amount of courage, right?
00:43:59
Speaker
It took me a minute. Yeah, it takes a certain amount of courage and I just have such respect for using your voice in an authentic, this is it, take it or leave it way. So thank you for sharing from honestly and about your background and all of that I don't take lightly because I realize there is a lifetime of
00:44:21
Speaker
experiences and programming that you really you decided to go a different way with and that is that takes a lot of bravery and thank you for sharing that but yeah tell us anything else that you feel like you want to really hit home on. So one thing that came up is while you were talking there
00:44:41
Speaker
is that this allows you to see what's possible, to see a glimpse into who you truly are and how it feels to live authentically. I didn't know that. I couldn't even see this. You don't know what you don't know. You can't see those possibilities if you've never experienced or felt it before. So it allowed me to see a glimpse of what is possible and how it's possible to live
00:45:03
Speaker
and how it's possible to be around others when my kids are having a hard time or struggle or fighting with me.
00:45:12
Speaker
I can be a different way around them, how I can be around my spouse completely differently and show up in a different way that allows him to be different. So he doesn't have to do any work. He doesn't have to go to a therapist. He doesn't have to take plant medicine and just me being
00:45:34
Speaker
who I authentically am changes everybody in the family. And you don't understand the depth to that. You know how it works when you're angry and you're mad and you're yelling, right? It changes everything in the family, right? When you're happy, it changes a little bit too. But the depth of you being your authentic self, how that changes everything around you and all the people around you is incredible. So
00:45:57
Speaker
The point that I was going to make with this is that it gives you a glimpse into what's possible and how it's possible to live. And then you don't need the medicine.
00:46:09
Speaker
you understand how it feels in your soul to live authentically. And you don't need to go back to that plan. They actually found out of 10,000 people who are microdosing, they are doing less than the amount that they're told to do. This is not some addictive substance that we're worried about you getting addicted to. And you don't need that medicine once you've seen the possibility and feel it. And for me, I need a little routine. So I always have, and this is the reason I'm passionate about coaching and doing
00:46:39
Speaker
breathwork experiences and meditations, facilitating those to give people a glimpse of what's possible and then just show them what's possible. And then I think you still need integration. You still need some type of life coach. And sometimes I'm like, I'm good for a couple months.
00:46:59
Speaker
whoa, I need a little brush up here. I need to remember again. Usually I go to a retreat or I go to an energy worker or I go to meditation by myself before I really even think to go to plant medicine. It's a big commitment. That's not most people and there's exceptions like just like jumping to that. And some people can be like, I want this to fix me. I want this to fix me. But it's not the norm, I think, from what I've seen and experienced.
00:47:28
Speaker
I think that, yeah, I think that's beautiful because it's like we're not outsourcing these, we're not relying on a substance to always get us to this place where we are in a state of pleasure or we're in a state of we're actually learning how to create that feeling ourselves. But sometimes you have to feel it first, right? Just like
00:47:53
Speaker
muscle memory or when you start taking yoga at first it's so awkward and you're looking all around and you're not at all like in your body yet because you have all sorts of fears or you're looking at what everybody else is doing or you don't know if you're going to get it right and then once you have a yoga practice
00:48:09
Speaker
You can close your eyes and just be present and just flow with what's coming through in the moment and you don't need necessarily the instructor at the front of the room. That's what you're saying in terms of you start to create these new neural pathways. You start to open up and open your heart and it is potent enough.
00:48:29
Speaker
that it can be lasting, right? Yeah, that's life. You're going to have ups and downs and having tools to help you when you're in that downs and a new higher norm. So you're like highest year and then you used to go down here or whatever. I think it's good to have lots of different tools. That's why I'm doing my podcast is to show people there are alternative things to taking pharmaceuticals. And there are lots of alternative ways that you can
00:48:57
Speaker
keep and get yourself back aligned. So wrapping that up and then into this micro dosing thought I had while you were talking there, I don't actually, I maybe misrepresented micro dosing because it can just as the larger doses do this same thing.
Emotional Healing and Alternatives
00:49:16
Speaker
They're very hard opening. So in plant medicine, it allows me to feel those lows, but it holds me in them.
00:49:24
Speaker
And I know this is part of the experience and it's gonna be okay. This is, it's okay. And I also feel those heights of joy and overflowing love and gratitude and compassion.
00:49:39
Speaker
For myself and others so with micro dosing one thing to be careful of is that it can heighten those things and that's the beauty of plant medicine is it will bring those things up that you're struggling with so people use it to. Heal from trauma right and they're like oh I cried the whole time that was.
00:49:59
Speaker
so hard and so terrible. It brought up all of my trauma and my pains and it was incredible and the most life-changing thing I've experienced and it was like five years of therapy in five hours. And so it's not just always this fluffy thing, but microdosing has the potential
00:50:17
Speaker
With doing this podcast, I interviewed a gal who on ketamine, she'd been sexually abused and physically and mentally abused her entire life by her caretakers. And she did a ketamine session and she disassociated from her body and got to view it all from a higher consciousness. And she said it was the first time I ever forgave myself. And I was able to see, forgive them, I don't have them in my life, but I was able to see what their life was to lead them up to that point where they were doing that.
00:50:47
Speaker
And I was able to have that awareness. So as I edited this podcast, I'm just crying and crying, thinking about my daughter. All of this stuff, emotions are coming up. So all kinds of ways that I was healing from this and that medicine allowed me to bring that to the surface and to process it and move it through. And it was a gift. It was really hard. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that saying you have to feel it to heal it. And we do, we are so programmed and
00:51:18
Speaker
Most of us don't. We don't know how to feel hard feelings. We don't know how to process those hard emotions and experiences. And there's a lot of numbing or just shoving it down, never dealing with it. And that ends up as disease in the body. It ends up as blockages and it's nothing to mess around with. And if you can get to a place where you can feel safe
00:51:45
Speaker
to be able to move through those hard emotions and those hard, unfortunate circumstances that either you've been through, your family's been through, someone else has been through, that you just can feel it all. There's so much healing in that.
00:52:02
Speaker
I appreciate how vulnerable and how insightful this whole conversation was and just that you are an open book with these things, especially because of your background. You could be very not into talking about anything taboo and I feel like it's so refreshing and you are such a
00:52:21
Speaker
visionary for people who are looking and who have maybe a background similar to yours. And so I'm just really honored that you came today to talk to us. I'm grateful you allowed me to come and share this. It's so important. Can I say to the listeners that as we were just finishing that thought of it can bring up a lot
00:52:45
Speaker
and work through a lot. And you really do need to be in a place where you have support after. And I'm not talking about one day after, I'm talking about integration and that you have someone who works for you. It could be me, it could be a life coach, it could be an integration, psychedelic integration coach, which I have some
00:53:06
Speaker
I'll have some links to on my stuff, but find someone to work with to be able to do that because if you open up all this stuff and you're not really ready to deal with it, you might be incapacitated like you need to be in a space where you have the capacity and the time and energy and support to really be able to work all the way through these things that
00:53:31
Speaker
maybe you're brought up or starting to work through anything. So I've developed a technique based on some of my experiences that I've had to release some of these things that are very common, issues with kids, spouse, self-love, all kinds of different things. And the closest thing, if someone's not in a place where they're safe or legal or they're not wanting to do plant medicine or able for whatever reason,
00:54:01
Speaker
that you're still getting someone into an altered state. So we do breath work to get you into an altered state and then go through some of these processes without any plant medicine to be able to release those. So those are some of the things I'll do a little online and at the retreats and I'm doing a self-love challenge.
00:54:22
Speaker
online that would be free for anyone. That just shows you some of those techniques. Oh, I've reached it. I now have self-love for the rest of my life. It's still a process and a journey, a relationship that you're doing with yourself to continue that self-love just like you would a relationship with a spouse. You're not just like, okay, we're good. Yeah, I hear you.
00:54:44
Speaker
I appreciate you bringing up the tools that you offer because that was what I was going to ask is if someone is curious about your experience or just where to begin, where would you point people or where is a good place for people to start and how can they connect with you?
00:54:59
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, my podcast is great. That's free information, but we'll put links in the comments to how to contact me and my link tree just has all the events and the online events and everything I'm doing. There's a Facebook group I have and of course, subscribe to my list. We'll put a link there so that I can email you out. Yeah, if you'll allow me to wrap up that from the beginning, close it with one more.
00:55:27
Speaker
I had this sense of not having any freedom when I was parenting in that rut. And I had a couple experiences on plant medicine. And one was just standing in nature and experiencing the awesome. I remember asking myself, oh, next time I happen to be on plant medicine, I'm going to be like, how do I want to be free? How do I become free? And it was just like,
00:55:56
Speaker
You already, you've always been free. That's the answer. You already are free. Feel it. You just get to feel this, what you're feeling right now, this freedom in your daily life. You have it. You have the freedom already. And so on one of them, I was with a group of
00:56:12
Speaker
people and they were all going to be by a campfire. And I was like, I don't want to be over by you guys. I'm doing my own thing. So I was doing my own thing, talking to the trees and meditating and feeling all the feelings.
Engaging Fully with Life
00:56:26
Speaker
And then I was like, I just want to run. I know I should go back over to that campfire, but I'm just going to get on my bike and I'm going to ride as fast as I can.
00:56:36
Speaker
running away from life. So I wanted to, I just was like, I just want to leave all my responsibilities behind. I don't want to be a parent anymore. I'm just going to leave everything behind and just go be myself and be free. And so I start writing my back as fast as I could. And it felt exhilarating and fun. And I was like, I'm just going to keep writing forever. And I get to the end of this lane like 10 seconds later, not even kidding, but it felt like a lifetime. And I was like, huh.
00:57:07
Speaker
I was fun. It's lonely here. Miss everybody. And in my mind, I was running away from my family too and my responsibilities. And I was like, and I miss my kids and I miss my husband. And I was like, Oh, I really.
00:57:22
Speaker
like my life, I think I want to choose that life. And so it was this profound experience that was like, if not a lifetime, like or 10 years, like I had left my family and children and finally had this realization that it was better before that I'm seeing this movie or a book, right? 10 seconds.
00:57:38
Speaker
But I felt it as if it was years of knowledge and wisdom that, no, I really want to be where I'm at. I want to be here and I want to experience it exactly how it is and love it and
00:57:53
Speaker
Just live it to the fullest live each moment to the fullest and each relationship and. Anyway, it was just this bringing it all back into how I want to live in the message. I want to tell other people that that there's options and it feels incredible to just enjoy every moment of life even the down parts that is so beautiful and profound and.
00:58:20
Speaker
I think a beautiful way to end this conversation, this deeply inspiring and insightful conversation about possibility and self-connection and being available to more depth in our relationships and with ourselves. And I've loved every second of it. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing. So openly and honestly, you are a gift. I appreciate your harmony. Thank you. Thank you.
00:58:46
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post on social media, or leave a rating and review. It would mean the world to me. To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me over on Instagram at Feel Good With Renee. Thanks again, and I will see you next time.