Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome back to the Debatable Discussions podcast.
Speaker: After a short break for exams, we are back today with a very big episode to start off season two of the podcast.
Speaker: And with us today, we have Mr. Ryan Wayne, who is the executive director at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, who has also worked on delivering the TBI's Future of Britain programme in the past.
Speaker: Hello, Ryan.
Speaker: Very, very nice to have you here with us today.
Speaker: Hey, Dajan.
Speaker: Hey, John.
Speaker: Good to be here.
Speaker: Thank you for coming on today because we've always been looking for sort of a big guest, someone with lots of knowledge about politics and very involved in it.
Speaker: So it's great to have someone like you on today.
Speaker: To start off, you know, this sort of discussion about, you know, the state of UK politics at the moment, we're just going to ask you, what does the Tony Blair Institute do and why perhaps you chose to work for it?
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: So look, the...
Speaker: The Tony Blair Institute, I think, is in a category of one when it comes to organisations because the most important feature of the Institute is who our audience is and who we work with, and that is political leaders.
Speaker: So these are women and men around the world who are leading countries, prime ministers and presidents.
Speaker: And what we do for them is two things, really.
Speaker: we give them advice and that advice comes from teams who are based in their countries.
Speaker: But that team importantly is employed by the Tony Blair Institute because it allows us then to have an understanding, a central understanding of how you make change happen.
Speaker: Because the reason why we exist is that becoming a political leader, you think, oh, I've made it, I've been through a bruising campaign, I've won the election, I've got power, now all I need to do is say the five things that were in my manifesto that need to happen.
Speaker: That's the hardest bit.
Speaker: Because turning campaign ideas and manifestos into reality, what we call delivery, is really, really difficult.
Speaker: But we've got people who are trained in that, have a deep understanding of it.
Speaker: And also the guy whose name's above the door, Tony Blair, he was Prime Minister of Britain for 10 years.
Speaker: And it also allows us to bring his understanding, which has only got stronger and stronger, of how you make change happen in government.
Speaker: So we advise leaders around the world on how to make change happen.
Speaker: And then we also come up with ideas and the two can be linked because sometimes the ideas we come up with can be ones that governments are then implementing, but sometimes they're not.
Speaker: We do a lot of work here in Britain where what our job is, is to create a space where we look at how the world is changing around us, climate change, the technological revolution, even things like the world of work and how that might be developing.
Speaker: the tax base of the country, all of these big issues that sometimes politics can ignore.
Speaker: And our job is to come up with ideas that enable governments to grapple with these challenges and also really importantly seize their opportunities.
Speaker: So technology is a great example.
Speaker: Loads of challenges that come with technology, even more opportunities.
Speaker: And when we come up with ideas that enable political leaders to grasp them and put them out to the outside world, we're doing our job properly.
Speaker: Who would you say is probably the most impressive leader that you've worked with or the institute has worked with?
Speaker: Yeah, look, it's a great question because I have a bias here and a boss to please.
Speaker: I'm not going to fall into the trap of saying Tony Blair, although I think Tony was an excellent prime minister, especially when he really understood how government works.
Speaker: But I actually look at the continent of Africa and we work in about 14 countries in Africa.
Speaker: And I'm always immensely impressed at the calibre of ministers who we deal with there.
Speaker: But I'll pick one, which is Minister Paula in Rwanda.
Speaker: And the reason why I really like her is because she's so focused on actually delivering.
Speaker: She doesn't just campaign and want to be popular in her country.
Speaker: She wants to deliver.
Speaker: And she's also...
Speaker: plays with what's in front of her, which is a very youthful population in Rwanda.
Speaker: There's been some awful tragedies in their past.
Speaker: It's a very youthful, vibrant, creative population.
Speaker: And the policy agenda that she and her fellow ministers are implementing speak to that because they're really leaning into technology.
Speaker: And that also allows someone like Rwanda to...
Speaker: some ways leapfrog other countries which you know an artificial terminology would be called more developed but actually someone like rwanda when they start to roll out digital identities for all of their citizens or they look at how you can use data to help people take control of their health
Speaker: In some ways, they're having conversations and implementing policies that we rarely struggle with in places like Britain, just because of our systems.
Speaker: So I'm really impressed with a lot of the African leaders we work with.
Speaker: Rwanda's a great example.
Speaker: You should Google her and see some things she said.
Speaker: But I'm also excited about some of the young talent that I get to meet, and I include Diane and John Yoo on this, because you're full of ideas, passion, ambition.
Speaker: If you read about young people today, that doesn't come across wrongly.
Speaker: It's misrepresented.
Speaker: But the folk I get to work with, the next generation of leaders, they're the ones who really do excite you.
Speaker: I was just going to say earlier on, but I think what really impresses me about the Tony Blair Institute, as you said, is that it's sort of more than a think tank.
Speaker: Because as a young person, you hear about these think tanks, you think they sound impressive, but actually implementing the policy, seeing the change through, it sounds so much better than just making up ideas.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: And the insight you get from that cannot be underestimated.
Speaker: I never expected to be working in something close to a think tank.
Speaker: And I have to say, as a result of that, I'm sort of...
Speaker: constantly surprised at how much expensive wallpaper is produced by think tanks where the smartest people will go into a room with the right answer to one of the big problems that the country's facing and it will be the right answer if you read all 360 pages of this report the right answer is there
Speaker: But the problem is politics just doesn't work like that.
Speaker: And so our experience of working directly with governments of hiring leaders who have led countries before or being led by someone who's led a country before, that just gives us this unique insight that when we combine that,
Speaker: with our ideas and the creativity.
Speaker: It's a phenomenal piece of work because not only is it the right answer, but it's also the right answer in a way that takes into account all of those considerations of how you make change happen.
Speaker: And it's got that delivery at its heart.
Speaker: I think that is the thing that does set us apart.
Speaker: I'm really glad you picked up on that, John.
Speaker: So what is the role of the Institute going to be now that Kirstom is very likely to come into government?
Speaker: Is there something already agreed or is it still a bit up in the air?
Speaker: Well, Dan, you've asked a live question, one that many people in TBI are asking.
Speaker: So you're onto the right line of thought there.
Speaker: Obviously, the UK election has not happened yet.
Speaker: So we do not know for sure who the next Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is going to be.
Speaker: But if I was a Tory candidate, or as we used to call them, a betting man, then I would probably put my money on Keir Starmer becoming the Prime Minister.
Speaker: And look, we are a nonpartisan think tank.
Speaker: We'd be a terrible commercial organisation because we give all of our thinking away for free.
Speaker: for those who want to use it.
Speaker: And some of that has been adopted by Conservatives or right-leaning governments around the world.
Speaker: But what I would say about Keir Starmer and his Labour Party, we saw this at last year's Future of Britain, where he appeared on stage with our Executive Chairman, Tony Blair.
Speaker: I think we are going to see a government that has just been elected with a mandate for change, for change in the country.
Speaker: And I think there's a question that Prime Minister Keir has got to ask himself on day one, which is what do we want that change to be?
Speaker: It's not a new thing or a novel thing to say that the last 14 years have been pretty dire.
Speaker: There's been some highlights, but a lot of lowlights.
Speaker: And I don't think the country's feeling great at this moment in time.
Speaker: So I think Keir and the Labour Party could be forgiven for...
Speaker: Just improving things, making trains, run on time, reducing NHS waiting lists, fixing crumbling classrooms and all the basic stuff really at government.
Speaker: But from the conversations I've had with the Labour Party and those in and around the Labour leadership and the things that I've seen even during this recent election campaign,
Speaker: I get the sense that Labour's ambition for Britain is bigger than that.
Speaker: And like us, they're looking at how the world's changing geopolitically, the rise of China, China's relationship with the United States, countries like India, that technological revolution I mentioned before, the climate agenda.
Speaker: And they're saying, rather than just make things better, we're going to transform the country.
Speaker: You just mentioned, Ryan, previously talking about, you know, Keir Starmer's big plans.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: most people in the uk would have obviously heard of one perhaps more divisive one around private education so we're just going to ask for your views of opinions on private education and whether you think kira is doing the right thing perhaps by implementing vat on private school fees yeah
Speaker: Well, look, I don't think we should ever stop parents who want to send their kids to private school from sending them to private school.
Speaker: But I don't think this policy does that.
Speaker: I think what it does do is raise some much-needed funds for state schools.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: You can see that in the data, right?
Speaker: If you're a kid who goes to private school, the chances are that you're getting about three times more money spent on you in your education than a kid who goes to state school.
Speaker: And we need to be more ambitious for the next generation in Britain.
Speaker: My personal view on private schools
Speaker: So I've said before, I think parents should have the choice of sending their kids to it.
Speaker: I am very proudly state educated.
Speaker: I'm part of the 93%, and there's an organisation called the 93% Club, which any state educated kids should check out because it's recognised that there is actually an inherent problem in British society, which is what we sometimes call in wonky circles social mobility, that it's not just about...
Speaker: being state educators and what grades you get.
Speaker: It's then what impact that has on your chances of getting into the university of your first choice, if that's what you decide to go through, or getting a high level apprenticeship.
Speaker: And then it carries on when you go into your job and your business.
Speaker: And one of the things I found in my career is that I'm seemingly feel a lot better
Speaker: I'm sometimes surprised that only 7% of the population goes to private school when I look around because it seems to be a lot more people who are privately educated.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: Some of these people are really good friends of mine.
Speaker: and they can be intelligent, smart, confident, they're able to debate, and they've got a good network.
Speaker: Now, those five things, they are all things that we should be aspiring to for kids, whatever their background to have.
Speaker: And what I would love to see from the next government
Speaker: It's not just raising some much needed funds for our state schools to improve the quality of education there, but also thinking more holistically about what it is that makes private school kids so successful when they go into the world of work and pursue other opportunities and invest in our next generation to level them up.
Speaker: You know, a national mentorship scheme, for example, I'd love to give my time.
Speaker: to kids who want to go and work in policy and politics.
Speaker: That helps on the network side.
Speaker: Debate clubs in schools.
Speaker: Kids talk about every kid having the opportunity to learn a musical instrument.
Speaker: I think about in my school, how many brilliant drummers, violinists, guitarists were in that school who just never got the opportunity to explore that talent.
Speaker: So that's where my view on education and private education goes.
Speaker: The
Speaker: We should aspire for our kids to be the best whatever school they go to.
Speaker: That does require investment, but I think it also requires quite innovative policymaking.
Speaker: And there's one final thing I'd say on this, which is technology.
Speaker: And I think technology and education gives us, for the first time ever, the tools, the policies that will enable us to break that link between how much money is spent in a school
Speaker: and where that school is located.
Speaker: So funding and geography, to break that link between those two things with the quality of education.
Speaker: Things like an AI tutor for every kid, these are within our grasp, but we just need our politicians to really grab hold of them and lean into them.
Speaker: I mean, I can definitely see where you're coming from there, because I think wherever you stand in this debate, there's one thing that everyone will agree with, and that is that...
Speaker: the level of state education should definitely be raised to that level of private education because simply it's not effectively right that perhaps someone in a state school isn't having as good an education as someone in a private school.
Speaker: I think personally for me and from a lot of reading I've done on the issue, there's a lot of things of sort of Kia trying to do almost class warfare.
Speaker: you see a lot of, and attacks on aspiration.
Speaker: And I can definitely see why some would think this, because he is targeting a certain section of society.
Speaker: And also perhaps, in my opinion, he doesn't totally realise that it's not just the upper class in society that send their kids to private schools.
Speaker: But you've also got a large middle class who are scrimping and saving every penny they have to be able to offer their children this opportunity.
Speaker: So I think there's two sides to it.
Speaker: One, it's perhaps an aspiration, and it can be viewed as class warfare.
Speaker: But then, as you said, I definitely think the level of state education needs to be raised, because in a democratic society, everyone should have the same opportunities when they leave university.
Speaker: Look, I think that is a well-put-together analysis, John.
Speaker: What I would say is that I...
Speaker: I don't think this is a level and down argument.
Speaker: I don't think what Keir is saying is that we need to remove privilege from society and therefore we need to, everyone should have the same standard of education.
Speaker: I think it's more of a level and up argument, which is how do we get our kids to be the best educated?
Speaker: And you've got to ask yourself the question.
Speaker: Why are those middle class parents who don't necessarily have the disposable income because it's expensive, it could be a massive drain on their household finances.
Speaker: Why are they choosing to send their kids to the private schools?
Speaker: And I think there's two answers.
Speaker: One, because let's be blunt, the quality of education is better because it's more funding, right?
Speaker: So let's put that to one side.
Speaker: And then I think the second point, which doesn't necessarily motivate everyone, but...
Speaker: I think some folk will go through this for progress.
Speaker: It's going to give their child an advantage after school as well.
Speaker: And I think if you take those two challenges, and I think they are challenges for the society that we both want to see, which is an aspirational one, but not just a name, one where you can achieve your aspirations regardless of your background.
Speaker: If we put those two things front and centre for our education policy, I think that pushes into a really interesting space.
Speaker: And I think we will start to see this from Keira and Bridget, which is, I
Speaker: and educate a school system which prides quality and that's where yes investment has a big role to play and is necessary but that's also where you can get excited about things like technology and then the advantage later on in life that i don't think this is about how do we stop
Speaker: well-educated private school kids getting top jobs.
Speaker: But I think it is about how do we have a tranche of well-educated state school kids who can also go into those top jobs as well.
Speaker: And a recognition, really important,
Speaker: that there's not a set pie which is divided up between the classes or the rich and the poor, but actually the pie, which is the economy, can grow.
Speaker: And that's the thing it hasn't done.
Speaker: And the more that we empower and enable the next generation to unlock their talents, to go on and do great things in their jobs and their careers,
Speaker: or in the culture, the bigger that pie gets and the better that is for the country.
Speaker: And I also think the better it is for all of the individuals involved.
Speaker: And if we were having this conversation in 20 years time and we look back and say, God, the number of kids in private schools fell and you tell me that fell just because of the VAT rise, I think I'd be disappointed.
Speaker: But if you were to say that fell because parents started to choose to send their kids to an ever-growing number of excellent state schools, I think we'd both be very, very happy with that outcome.
Speaker: And I think that's where the Labour Party is trying to go to.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: But it's really just levelling up for that future.
Speaker: Yeah, we hope and we've got to be careful that it doesn't come across as class warfare because that is one of the challenges of being in a political debate, right?
Speaker: And having studied the policy and the speeches made by Bridget Phillips and others, and also if you look at Keir Starmer's background and trajectory himself, I don't think it is class warfare.
Speaker: Now, don't get me wrong, there will be people in the Labour Party who want to make it class warfare.
Speaker: I mean, that is a problem and something that we want to avoid, because that is not good politics.
Speaker: Hey, so moving on as well to another of Keir's, well, not Keir's actually, Rishi's policies, but one that Keir has opposed, national service.
Speaker: You know, it's a big idea that Rishi's sort of put in place for this election, perhaps to get more votes.
Speaker: Well, yes, to get more votes.
Speaker: And for listeners who don't know, it's that 18-year-olds would have to do either a year of military service or one weekend a month of volunteering.
Speaker: So Ryan, where do you stand in this?
Speaker: Because I personally think it's a great ideological idea, but that can't really be achieved by Rishi.
Speaker: So what do you think?
Speaker: Yeah, I think for me, I do think we need to do more in order to build or rebuild the fabric of society.
Speaker: I think we become an increasingly individualised society.
Speaker: culture and country.
Speaker: And the more that we can do to bring people together, the better.
Speaker: And I personally benefited from this in the past.
Speaker: I volunteered every Monday and Thursday and the occasional weekend.
Speaker: I was in the air cadets, in the air training corps.
Speaker: And I did that for five years.
Speaker: And I was flying planes.
Speaker: I was firing rifles on a shooting range, not our people.
Speaker: I was doing drill, doing sports.
Speaker: And it was great.
Speaker: And to this day, I still don't know what made me want to go and become an air cadet.
Speaker: But it was a fantastic decision.
Speaker: I can trace back things that I'm doing now to what I learned during that time.
Speaker: And so on the one hand, the more that people have access to that, the better.
Speaker: And I mean, I like the aspiration of the policy, which is,
Speaker: volunteering side i do think we have to think about how we make sure people are doing it and this is where the policy falls a little bit short what does mandatory mean how do you make something mandatory how do you tie it to incentives and look i don't think that makes it a bad policy i think it's just a a question that remains unanswered and for me there's a way that you could get it right which is
Speaker: Young people are just troublemakers and problems and individuals who stay at home, gaming or going on social media.
Speaker: They're not.
Speaker: They're also talents and people who need to come together and explore and think what want to.
Speaker: So there's a driver there.
Speaker: But I also think there is a raw deal for young people today.
Speaker: It's never been more difficult to get on the housing ladder.
Speaker: I think education has never been more expensive.
Speaker: And you also see problems around
Speaker: cost of living, antisocial behaviour, mental health, even NHS waiting lists and the impact that has on children.
Speaker: It's not an easy society to grow up in.
Speaker: And so I don't think we just want to beat young people into submission, forcing them to volunteer in the communities or in the military.
Speaker: Instead, I'd love to see some incentives.
Speaker: And when I was in sixth form, when I was doing my A-levels, I used to get paid 30 quid a week to attend school through educational maintenance allowance.
Speaker: I'm not saying that we got the money to go around to do that, but I would certainly love to see more thought given to what is the incentive, what do young people get out of this?
Speaker: And I think that is a really fertile interest and space.
Speaker: So, look, I agree certainly on the community volunteering side of the policy.
Speaker: I think it's a good ambition, and we should be encouraging and creating systems that allow young people to do that.
Speaker: But I think we need to think a little bit more about the incentives that go with that.
Speaker: On the military side, by the way, it's a whole big question around the geopolitical world that we're in and the change in face of security.
Speaker: And I think there is a reality that the world is more insecure than it's ever been.
Speaker: And I do think we want to see more young people wanting to go into the military.
Speaker: And I think one of the things that the Prime Minister made very, very clear is that the military service won't be mandatory.
Speaker: It will be optional.
Speaker: And I'm supportive of that.
Speaker: I think, again, like I did with the Air Training Corps, the Air Cadets,
Speaker: we should be creating avenues for people to go into the military.
Speaker: And I think that will benefit the country in the long run as well.
Speaker: So supportive, but as ever, and I'd say this as a TBI person, the challenge is in the delivery of this and there's some big questions that still go unanswered.
Speaker: So I was also thinking about, well, how, because there's no penalty at the moment, they're looking at penalties and
Speaker: How do you think there might be... Will there be a penalty if you don't do it?
Speaker: Or will there just not be an incentive?
Speaker: Is it going to be a sort of negative remark?
Speaker: Yeah, I think the bigger question is, will they be in government in order to do it?
Speaker: And that might negate all of this.
Speaker: But in terms of the policy, look, I don't think... It's very evident it's not been thought through fully.
Speaker: I don't think you can have a penalty...
Speaker: Certainly not a financial one for a group in society that aren't necessarily dripping with cash to make them do this.
Speaker: One thing the Prime Minister did say during one of the debates, which I didn't get picked up on that much, but a bit of a throwaway remark, is that it could be tied to things like a driving licence.
Speaker: So if you're 17, 18 and you don't do this, then maybe you're not eligible for your driving licence.
Speaker: And I think that's probably where they were going.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Speaking candidly, I don't think it's been well thought through.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with you there.
Speaker: Because I think the main thing is that the enforcement would just be near impossible because it's unfair to see if it's on a financial or a criminal penalty.
Speaker: It's totally unfair for that.
Speaker: But I think, as you said, a key thing they should focus on is expanding things like the Air Cadets or other branches of Cadets, because both me and Diane have done it.
Speaker: Brilliant.
Speaker: we have learned like key skills from doing it.
Speaker: And I think young people, I mean, it doesn't personally interest me, but the skills I've learned from doing like cadets, for example, they've been very beneficial.
Speaker: And I think similar skills could be learned if you join the military.
Speaker: That's why I think any future prime minister has really got to re-incentivise joining the armed forces because not only do we need it in the world we're entering, but also I think it is a great place because I think there's a lot to learn there.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And moving on to our last, really, our last chunk, we're talking about young people and politics.
Speaker: So should the voting age be lowered to 16 instead of 18?
Speaker: And, yeah, what's your opinion on this?
Speaker: You just asked me a good question.
Speaker: I don't think that we should lower the voting age to 16.
Speaker: I think instead we should focus on what it is that is...
Speaker: the challenges that are facing 16 and 17 year olds and make sure that governments come up with a policy agenda that says not to that we win their votes, but because there is a desperate need for us as a country to improve the outcomes and prospects and opportunities for that demographic and age group.
Speaker: And I feel like the votes at 16 could be a distraction
Speaker: from that.
Speaker: That said, I am very aware of all of the upsides and there are countries around the world which have introduced VOTAS 16, not many, but a fair few, and they
Speaker: They have seen a rise in voter participation and voter turnout.
Speaker: But what I would say is that if that is your objective, that's your policy objective, how do you get more people to participate in democracy, which I think is really important in a big crisis.
Speaker: I don't think your go-to policy should be voted 16.
Speaker: I think there's a series of measures that need to be implemented before then that could help drive that voter participation.
Speaker: For example, I think we need to make politics much more accessible.
Speaker: And I think political parties need to look at themselves and say, how do we become places where young people want to engage and people more broadly?
Speaker: I think we have to give ourselves a sort of fundamental question as well, is how do we give people something to vote for?
Speaker: And I think one of the features of the upcoming election is that a lot of people won't go to the ballot box.
Speaker: They won't turn out because they don't feel they've got something to vote for, rightly or wrongly.
Speaker: And I think politicians and those in and around politics have got to see that as one of their core aims.
Speaker: And at the heart of that is just restoring trust between political parties.
Speaker: and voters, I think that trust has been shattered for many reasons over the last few years and it's on the floor.
Speaker: It's always been low, but I don't think it's ever been lower than it currently is.
Speaker: And the flip side of all of that is that it can be a really positive thing.
Speaker: Being able to say, what can Britain be?
Speaker: What is the future that's ahead of us?
Speaker: Painting a picture of that and then setting out a really credible way of getting there.
Speaker: I think that will do much more for voter participation than votes at 16.
Speaker: And, you know, I do just think if our political class and governments feel that it takes
Speaker: given the vote to 16-year-olds or to deliver for 16-year-olds, then we've got a problem.
Speaker: We should be doing that anyway.
Speaker: Our policy agenda, and I think in part it does, should be speaking to the
Speaker: challenges and opportunities ahead of our young, ahead of our next generation.
Speaker: I mean, the only thing I can really say to oppose you there, Ryan, would be that as perhaps it is the least represented age group in politics, the youth, would perhaps having the voting age at 16 increase its sort of youth participation in politics?
Speaker: But then, as you did say, and the biggest reason for me why it shouldn't be, is that when I think of becoming an adult, I think of the age of 18.
Speaker: Because, you know, the age where, you know, around the age where you can drive a car, age you can get a loan, a credit card.
Speaker: And you do sort of slightly just shift that, like wrongly sort of shape that if you lower the voting age to 16.
Speaker: Because voting is sort of part of becoming almost an adult.
Speaker: Because an adult, sort of as a young person, especially if you, that's when you're a sort of fully educated, perhaps member of society.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Participates in all sort of the realms of the world.
Speaker: Yeah, look, I think it's a really good point around the representation in Parliament of young people.
Speaker: What I would say to that is there are only 650 MPs, right?
Speaker: And we've got to be careful that we don't find ourselves in a situation where we feel that every single characteristic and age group needs to be represented because there'll always be someone then who isn't.
Speaker: And that's a real challenge.
Speaker: Should we strive for Parliament to be more reflective of the country?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Can that be a perfect science?
Speaker: No way.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: If young people don't feel like their voices are being heard, then I think that is on politicians to address that.
Speaker: And they should be doing that because they're focused on the future of the country and they see what I see, which is 16 year olds being absolutely critical to that.
Speaker: And also they see the challenges that group faces and they should therefore want to address it.
Speaker: And I think a lot of politicians actually do for their credit rather than just seeing it as a, how do I get their votes?
Speaker: Which often creates more division in society between groups than cohesion.
Speaker: Whereas the future of Britain, the future of the country and the policy agenda to get us there, that is something that can bring people together.
Speaker: Yeah, so our audience is mostly young people.
Speaker: So if you could give one piece of advice to young people on how they could get more.
Speaker: Yes, I know, and John knows as well, we're talking to our friends sometimes, and there's people who don't know that the Labour Party is left-wing and the Conservatives are right-wing, which is a bit worrying.
Speaker: So how would you...
Speaker: How would you say one piece of advice for teenagers to get more involved, more engaged and more knowledgeable with politics?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to give something a bit more theoretical and practical, which is be political.
Speaker: And I say this every time I stand up in front of a group of young people.
Speaker: And I've started to now say to people who are decades into their career and operate the highest level in business, because
Speaker: I think the world that we're in is so politically charged and everything can be traced back to politics.
Speaker: And I've always taken umbrage and being a little bit questionable of people who say, oh, I'm not into politics.
Speaker: And look, I completely understand why you'd be put off from Westminster and party politics.
Speaker: But being political, it's political with a small p. It's recognising that the world around us can all be traced back to political decisions or absence of political decisions.
Speaker: And so it's opening your eyes to that.
Speaker: Things like social media or football or even this podcast and the software we're using all trace back to politics.
Speaker: So it's that.
Speaker: And then it's also giving yourself permission to think.
Speaker: And this sounds a little bit silly, right?
Speaker: But when I look back when I was 16, the thing that I wanted to do more than anything was just fit in and not be noticed.
Speaker: And then when I went to university, when I first met Tony Blair,
Speaker: One of the things that sort of happened, a bit of shock therapy, was I started to feel like I had to think about what do I want the country to be?
Speaker: What do I think is going wrong?
Speaker: Where are the opportunities?
Speaker: And even if you just ask yourselves those three questions as a young person and think that will give you a massive advantage, not just in being more political, but I also think in navigating the world of education, work and big P politics.
Speaker: Be political.
Speaker: Give yourself permission and the time to think and think about what you want your future to be, your country's future to be.
Speaker: And don't just let these be the preserve of those at the higher echelons of political parties.
Speaker: Everyone has permission to do that.
Speaker: But sometimes we may just need to remind ourselves of that.
Speaker: Well, thank you very much, Ryan, for giving us the time.
Speaker: I know we know you're a very busy man.
Speaker: And thank you for being really the first big guest on the Debatable Discussions podcast.
Speaker: Yes, thank you for coming on as well, because it's been great to hear from you and get, you know, a new and fresh and different perspective to what we usually have.
Speaker: Well, look, you guys have done a great job.
Speaker: There's a bright future ahead of you in politics.
Speaker: The question you've got to ask yourselves is, do you want to be the ones asking the difficult questions or answering the difficult questions?
Speaker: From what I've seen today, I think you could choose to do either.
Speaker: So really good to chat.
Speaker: Really enjoyed it.
Speaker: And if anyone wants to get in touch, find me on LinkedIn or Google and drop me a message.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: And we look forward to welcoming you to our next episode, which will be just after the election, discussing the results.
