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#174 - Philip Kavvadias
425 Plays1 year ago
Children's author, Philip Kavvadias joins us this week to chat about his debut novel with Chicken House, his writing process and the journey he went on as a writer before landing his three book deal.
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Transcript
Introduction and Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
To listen without ads, head over to patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:00:04
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:07
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:07
Speaker
Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
00:00:09
Speaker
You can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
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So it's kind of a gamble.
Meet Philip Cavadius
00:00:19
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
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Joining me on this episode is a comedy children's author whose debut novel Mission Microraptor came out just a few weeks ago as a lead title with Chicken House.
Book Launch Reflections
00:00:31
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It's Philip Cavadius.
00:00:33
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Hello.
00:00:34
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Hello, Jamie.
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How are you?
00:00:36
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I'm very well, thank you.
00:00:37
Speaker
How are you?
00:00:38
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Yeah, good.
00:00:39
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Long time no see.
00:00:40
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Yes, indeed.
00:00:41
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It has been a long time.
00:00:42
Speaker
And I missed the launch of your book the other day as well.
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I was sad to not be able
Marketing Strategies Post-Launch
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to come to that.
00:00:46
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That's no problem.
00:00:48
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How are you feeling about, like, your book is finally out in the world, people are reading it.
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How does it feel?
00:00:54
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It feels great.
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You know, coming up to the launch, it's a stressful period because you're kind of thinking, you know, this is my...
00:01:03
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my big chance to make a big bang.
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I mean, we all learn, you know, you know, being in the industry that you have a period where your publisher will really support you with marketing.
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And that's, you know, around the launch.
00:01:21
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And then you have to do a lot of things on your own.
00:01:23
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So,
00:01:24
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So coming up to the launch, you're thinking, I want to make the biggest bang possible because then, well, not on my own, but the publisher will naturally move to other books that are being published.
00:01:41
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Yeah.
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And that creates a bit of a stress that the launch goes well.
00:01:48
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Oh, okay.
00:01:48
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Okay.
00:01:49
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This feels like you almost know too much about the industry to really enjoy your initial debut.
00:01:56
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Yes, but I think you see that, you know, it's not just my public.
00:02:00
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I guess you see that, you know, the more you are in the business, you know, you see a big splash, then next month, the new big splashes, and then the next following month, you know,
00:02:16
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And you kind of think, oh, yeah, this is my big chance to make the Big Splash.
00:02:19
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But I'm developing a strategy for kind of keeping it going after the Big Splash has happened.
00:02:31
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And it has to do with school visits, et cetera, et cetera.
00:02:37
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Yes.
00:02:37
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Okay.
00:02:38
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And that's, is that in partnership with like the publisher and the kind of marketing people, or is that something you're doing completely on your own?
00:02:44
Speaker
The publisher helps a lot to organize some of the initial, uh, school visits, but then, um, then you kind of have to do it on your own, but, but, but that's okay because I have some, you know, starting with the local schools, uh, have some, um,
00:03:00
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good contacts around here.
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There's also many schools around where I live, you know, and kind of this keeps the momentum going after the book has, is not sold out on Twitter anymore, Instagram, you know what I mean?
00:03:14
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Then you start generating sales in a quiet way, visiting school, schools having fun and selling copies and it's actually a nice routine afterwards.
00:03:27
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And I guess actually interacting with your readers, which must be a fun experience.
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Which is brilliant.
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Yeah, this is what I love the most.
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The thing I love the most is make kids laugh.
00:03:39
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It's brilliant.
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And when they like a joke and they burst into laughter, it's amazing.
00:03:44
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Yeah.
00:03:45
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Yeah.
The Story of Mission Microraptor
00:03:46
Speaker
Let's talk about the book itself, Mission Microraptor.
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I know that this has been in the making for a long time and anyone listening, I've known Philip a very long time, actually before I started this podcast.
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Fun fact, Philip was actually technically the first person ever to be interviewed for the podcast, but that episode never aired.
00:04:03
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Thankfully, yeah.
00:04:05
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It was more of a test run.
00:04:07
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I didn't know what I was doing, so we didn't- Well, no, you were pretty good.
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There was someone else who we won't mention.
00:04:13
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That was terrible.
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Okay.
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I thought you were great, Philip.
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Nah, you're too kind.
00:04:23
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But he's back for real this time.
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And obviously the book is out.
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Tell us a little bit about Mission Microraptor.
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You know, what's the story?
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What's going on?
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So it's the two kids go on a school trip and one of them discovers an egg turns out to be a macroraptor egg.
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It hatches that very night.
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It's been frozen for millions of years.
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But because the kid kind of posts a video of it hatching
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online, it triggers some really bad guys trying to get their hands on the live dinosaur specimen.
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But the kids also have some help from the special branch of the British Museum of Natural History.
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as we call it, and then it's just relentless after that.
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So it's, you know, it's just event after event
Inspiration and Writing Style
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after event of chase, adventure, survival in the forest, flying planes, flying helicopters, you know, bodies everywhere, escapes.
00:05:36
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You know, it's a lot of action and a lot of humor.
00:05:38
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Yes.
00:05:39
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Yeah.
00:05:39
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Yeah.
00:05:40
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Non-stop comedy, action adventures stuff.
00:05:42
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Um, what was the inspiration for this book?
00:05:45
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What was the, what made you want to write it?
00:05:48
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Well, many years ago, Peggy Bagnall started a competition in the Words and Pictures Slash Pile.
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And this is a series of great competitions that Words and Pictures, which is the magazine of the SCBWI, for those who don't know.
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It's called the Slash Pile.
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set a brief and ask for submissions.
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And Becky said, I'd like a middle grade adventure or book, I don't think she said adventure, where the relationship between a child and an animal is central.
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And
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Crucially, you don't have to have finished the book, which is great because I didn't have a book to submit.
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I was writing something else back then.
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But when I saw that, I instantly thought of a boy running in a forest and a bird flying above him.
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Then that bird became a microruptor.
00:06:59
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I wrote chapter one only, send it, and it didn't win, but it got...
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it got runner-up or it got highly commended, something like that.
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And then chatted with Becky and very quickly wrote the book after that because, you know, an agent liked it.
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So I was onto something, I thought.
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Wrote it quickly.
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I was very lucky to have a lot of people casting their eye on it.
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And, you know, a lot of my writing buddies were very helpful.
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So it got to a very decent stage and then sent it to Becky.
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But at the same time, I sent it to a couple of other agents that I liked saying, look, someone is interested in this.
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Maybe you want to look at it as well.
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But it was a small pool of agents, right?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And in the end, I signed with Amber Caravio from Skylark.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's, it, I think it's, that's something that I think doesn't work for everyone is that you kind of, you were, as you say, you were writing something else.
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You saw this kind of brief and you were like, yeah, I'll, I'll give that a go.
00:08:23
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And I think it, it speaks a lot to your style of writing is so much about the voice and the things that are happening as opposed to like the concept of the thing.
00:08:34
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Would you think that's kind of fair?
00:08:36
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Yes, that's fair.
00:08:37
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And I actually, this is what I like to read as well.
00:08:39
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Really voicey stuff.
00:08:41
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It really has to stand out and be a bit peculiar and different.
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And this is what I like.
00:08:48
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I like strong characters with strong voice, even if the voice is just a narrator, not a character in the book.
00:08:53
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Yeah.
00:08:55
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A strong voice.
00:08:55
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Yeah.
00:08:57
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I mean, the other good thing was that, you know, I realized that to have a chance in this game, you really have to participate in everything that's possible.
00:09:10
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So I was sending... It's only this year that I haven't sent...
00:09:17
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short stories to all the competitions that open in spring.
00:09:20
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But before that, in previous years, I was sending my short stories.
00:09:24
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I never won anything.
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So I was writing stuff, sending it out, writing stuff, sending it out, different stuff.
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And, you know, I'm a big believer in volume.
00:09:37
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Keep sending out stuff until something happens.
00:09:41
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Yeah.
00:09:42
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I mean, I get, if nothing else, like getting a list of all of the competitions and getting yourself like a routine where you're like, right, there's a competition coming up.
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I've got X number of weeks to write a short story and send it off.
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It's just a really good, like practice for the craft.
00:09:56
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It really is.
00:09:57
Speaker
It really is.
00:09:58
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Do you know, I was in the Scooby conference this year and there was Ed Veer, the illustrator.
00:10:06
Speaker
And he was saying that as an illustrator, you have to just go out and draw.
00:10:15
Speaker
You know, just create a routine where you go out and draw, whatever it is.
00:10:20
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And I thought, you know, this could work with writing as well, which is go out, look at something, and write a little story about it.
00:10:28
Speaker
And none of us is doing it, but it would be fantastic practice, wouldn't it?
00:10:34
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Yeah.
00:10:35
Speaker
I do know some writers who, but like they, they have like a routine of when they write and they'll, they'll, they'll dedicate sort of, um, a few hours every week where they say, right, I'm just not going to think about the thing, my current like work in progress or anything that is like really important to, you know, what I'm, what I'm focusing on right now, I'm going to completely clear my mind and just write anything for the next like few hours.
00:10:58
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And it's not, nothing's going to happen with it.
00:11:00
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It's just me writing.
00:11:01
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It's just practice.
00:11:02
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That's very healthy.
00:11:03
Speaker
That's a very healthy practice.
00:11:05
Speaker
I think I'm going to start as well.
00:11:07
Speaker
That sounds great.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, just putting aside just a small bit of time every week or so to say, I'm just going to write anything, something, anything.
00:11:16
Speaker
You kind of take all the pressure off yourself and just let yourself be free.
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, and write different things.
00:11:23
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You know, one of the things that really helped me at least, I don't know if it would help other people, is that I joined a writing group
00:11:31
Speaker
a local writing group called Slough Writers, and none of them is a children's author.
00:11:36
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So I go there, and, you know, a lot of them write adult books, others write plays, or others write poetry, and then they have regular competitions or exercises.
00:11:49
Speaker
And it's never about writing a children's story.
00:11:53
Speaker
And that has worked brilliantly for my writing.
00:11:56
Speaker
I think you have to, I don't know if it works for other people, but I think you have to write, you know, other things.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:04
Speaker
I've talked about this with other writers as well as it's usually when we're talking about, um, planning versus pantsing and it comes up and I, and I'll say like, there's so many authors who have said like, I started off doing one of these and then I tried the other thing and then I didn't like it, but I learned so much from it.
00:12:25
Speaker
So I, I didn't really fully go back to the one I started with.
00:12:28
Speaker
I ended up somewhere in between and that has worked so well for me.
00:12:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:33
Speaker
Trying, you know, like you say, try everything you got to try it.
00:12:36
Speaker
Cause, cause you'll, even if you end up not doing that thing, you learn so much from the experience of trying it.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, you do.
00:12:43
Speaker
And I, and I like this quote.
00:12:46
Speaker
I think it's usually attributed to Stephen King.
00:12:48
Speaker
I don't know if it's his, uh, that says, you know, some people wait for inspiration.
00:12:53
Speaker
I just go to work every morning.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
I think it is Stephen King.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:57
Speaker
So he gets up, you know, sits down and starts writing.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:02
Speaker
And I get that because sometimes inspiration comes when you just sort of sit down and you're like, right, I'm just going to start writing.
00:13:08
Speaker
And then a few hundred words in, you're like, oh no, I get it.
00:13:11
Speaker
Now I'm in the flow.
00:13:12
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Now I'm in the zone.
00:13:14
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It really does.
00:13:14
Speaker
I mean, for me, you know, in the famous kind of dichotomy between a panther and a planner,
00:13:23
Speaker
You know, I have a very vague plan, but I can never become more detailed unless I sit down and write the story.
00:13:31
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That's how it works for me.
00:13:33
Speaker
I can't figure it out.
00:13:34
Speaker
I have a vague idea.
00:13:36
Speaker
You know, you can't figure out the story unless I write it.
00:13:41
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
The journey is the destination kind of thing.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:47
Speaker
Then I wonder, your deal with Chicken House is multiple books, all planned within
Series Planning with Chicken House
00:13:53
Speaker
the series.
00:13:53
Speaker
This is book one of that series.
00:13:55
Speaker
How many books are mapped out at this point?
00:13:58
Speaker
Three books.
00:13:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:00
Speaker
So I've signed for three books.
00:14:03
Speaker
I can tell you that I already have eight books in mind.
00:14:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:08
Speaker
But yeah, but the original contract is for three books.
00:14:14
Speaker
Right.
00:14:14
Speaker
So when you and Amber, your agent, were kind of taking this out to editors and pitching it, did the two of you kind of say, look, we need to have a plan for what the second and third book are going to be?
00:14:31
Speaker
Because we're pitching this as a series.
00:14:32
Speaker
We need to kind of say, this is the first book and you have the detailed plan for that.
00:14:36
Speaker
And then you say, but in the second book, this is going to happen.
00:14:38
Speaker
And then it's going to conclude this kind of trilogy, which we're pitching in the third book.
00:14:43
Speaker
We did prepare a summary of the next couple of books, but I can't remember if it was after we signed.
00:14:55
Speaker
No, it was probably...
00:14:58
Speaker
I can't remember, but for sure, from the first conversation I've had with Amber, we discussed that this is a series.
00:15:06
Speaker
And actually, one of the things that Amber said is that, you know, a series is one of her specialties.
00:15:14
Speaker
that she's worked in very successful series as an editor.
00:15:20
Speaker
She used to be an editor.
00:15:21
Speaker
And, you know, that was one of the reasons I really liked Amber.
00:15:26
Speaker
And, you know, going out to publishers, she always sold this as a series.
00:15:33
Speaker
Right.
00:15:34
Speaker
So then going back to what you were just saying about planning and pancing and how you don't like to necessarily work off like a predetermined pitch.
00:15:45
Speaker
Now that you kind of have committed to an outline for these future books, how kind of loose is that outline?
00:15:52
Speaker
It can change, but the description of future books is small and it has a lot of room for maneuver.
00:16:06
Speaker
So, for example, book two is in the Pacific Ocean, Mariana Trench,
00:16:12
Speaker
um and you know there's something happening at sea and then that takes shape once i sit down and write it third book is going to be about heist and then and again that takes shape and then i have kind of headlines and very brief descriptions about future books that are not under contract yet um okay but even if um you know even if
00:16:37
Speaker
Let's say, you know, I've discussed a brief outline with Chicken House about Book 3, for example.
00:16:43
Speaker
And then, you know, when the time comes, I say, do you know what?
00:16:48
Speaker
I've thought of something else from Book 3.
00:16:51
Speaker
It's not a problem at all.
00:16:52
Speaker
I mean, you know, this can change because you just had a better idea.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, of course.
00:16:58
Speaker
I think they just want to see that you've thought about it, you know, a little bit of where this is going, but it's not unchangeable.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, but I would imagine there is some kind of through plot that is going across the books, but obviously each book will have a main plot that is self-contained within that book.
00:17:15
Speaker
Is that right?
00:17:17
Speaker
That's a very good point.
00:17:18
Speaker
This is what Chicken House brought to the table.
00:17:22
Speaker
They've asked me to create an overarching arc for the first three books, which I did.
00:17:33
Speaker
And then we...
00:17:36
Speaker
And then that kind of changed little hints and details in book one during the editing process.
00:17:44
Speaker
And then as I was writing book two and three, I was paying attention to kind of this overarching arc that we had agreed.
Future Books and Series Arcs
00:17:55
Speaker
So then if there's a book four, this will have to start with the same characters and the same agency, etc., etc., but create potentially a new three-book arc, for example.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, which could be an unrelated separate arc, or it could be you could unwind some of the things that were tied off, depending on what ideas you have, where you want to go, and things like that.
00:18:23
Speaker
Okay, that's cool.
00:18:24
Speaker
That's interesting to know as well.
00:18:26
Speaker
With Chicken House, this is a lead title.
00:18:32
Speaker
I don't really know what that means.
00:18:34
Speaker
I can only kind of guess.
00:18:36
Speaker
What does it entail, being a lead title for a publisher?
00:18:39
Speaker
Well, I don't know either, but I thought...
00:18:44
Speaker
I first heard that when they went to Frankfurt with it.
00:18:48
Speaker
So I guess that going to the big kind of trade shows, they select a few titles that they are really going to pay attention on and really going to push.
00:19:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:02
Speaker
I think that's it.
00:19:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:04
Speaker
But from your end as an author, you're obviously this is your debut as well.
00:19:09
Speaker
So you don't really have anything to compare it to, but you haven't, as far as you know, it's, you're not, you're not really sure what the difference between being a lead title and from your side of things.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:19
Speaker
I don't know, to be honest.
00:19:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:22
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:19:22
Speaker
I thought it had to do specifically with Frankfurt originally.
00:19:27
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:19:27
Speaker
But yeah.
00:19:29
Speaker
But okay, this is all like businessy side of things.
00:19:32
Speaker
It doesn't affect you in any way.
00:19:35
Speaker
Not really, but it's a good question.
00:19:37
Speaker
I could ask them.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question.
00:19:41
Speaker
I don't know.
00:19:45
Speaker
Let's talk about the book because it's not just prose.
00:19:49
Speaker
It has illustrations, illustrations by Ewan Cook.
00:19:53
Speaker
Was that something that you suggested that you wanted to happen or was that kind of something that came in later?
00:19:58
Speaker
Well, I was very keen to have illustrations in because I know that, you know, well, this is a book that I particularly want to appeal to boys.
Engaging Readers with Illustrations
00:20:12
Speaker
Obviously all kids, but boys in particular, because boys read a lot less.
00:20:17
Speaker
and the stats every year are being issued about boys reading less and all that.
00:20:22
Speaker
So I just have this crazy dream to bring some boys back to reading.
00:20:30
Speaker
And I know from my son and his friends that they react particularly well to illustrations with the text.
00:20:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, I was very keen to have illustrations in this book and Chicken House, of course, were very happy with that as well.
00:20:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:50
Speaker
Did you have any say in the kind of illustrations and stuff or was it sort of handed off?
00:20:55
Speaker
No, I didn't...
00:20:57
Speaker
I didn't promote, I didn't, sorry, I didn't say that I have a preference for illustrators because, I mean, I don't know a lot of illustrators.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:09
Speaker
But the, you know, the, Ewan Cook, who is the illustrator for Mission Macroraptor, I instantly loved those illustrations.
00:21:19
Speaker
I think they were spot on and I was just very happy with it.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:26
Speaker
It's interesting that you're speaking to your son and his friends and stuff, and they were saying that illustration is something that is kind of draws them more.
00:21:33
Speaker
Are they, um, that kind of age?
00:21:36
Speaker
Do you think there's, there's a big uptick in them liking sort of comics and Japanese manga kind of things?
Influence of Manga and Anime
00:21:42
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:21:43
Speaker
I mean, my son introduced me to Demon Slayer, as you know, we've discussed this before.
00:21:48
Speaker
And, um,
00:21:50
Speaker
You know, I thought, what's that now?
00:21:53
Speaker
You know, I don't want to watch it.
00:21:54
Speaker
So we watched it first, and then I'm reading the books.
00:21:59
Speaker
But he insisted.
00:22:00
Speaker
He says, no, no, come and watch it.
00:22:01
Speaker
And then I thought, it's one of the most amazing stories I've ever seen.
00:22:06
Speaker
It's just brilliant.
00:22:08
Speaker
I was completely enthralled by it.
00:22:11
Speaker
He's into manga.
00:22:12
Speaker
A lot of boys are into manga.
00:22:15
Speaker
I think they're great.
00:22:17
Speaker
There's a lot of depth.
00:22:19
Speaker
You know, they just look like,
00:22:21
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of fighting and sword slashing and all that.
00:22:24
Speaker
But as you know, I believe you're a fan as well.
00:22:28
Speaker
There's a lot of depth in the story and a lot of layers and a lot of really clever stuff.
00:22:34
Speaker
So I think they're brilliant.
00:22:36
Speaker
I think also as, you know, we're from Europe and like when you talk about like Western kind of media and things, we're talking about sort of Europe, US, there's things that the Japanese storytelling does, which is kind of so different and kind of very refreshing in a way, the way that they deal with like magic systems and power scaling, I think is on a whole other level to some of the magic systems that Western writers do.
00:23:05
Speaker
That's a very good point.
00:23:06
Speaker
And I didn't know the term power scaling, but I think I know what it means.
00:23:11
Speaker
And this is brilliant because it's exactly that.
00:23:14
Speaker
Is it the thing that, you know, there's all this progression in kind of levels?
00:23:21
Speaker
Is that what you mean by power scaling?
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:25
Speaker
Well, it happens in any... I'm a huge fantasy reader, so it happens in basically any kind of fantasy and things like that.
00:23:30
Speaker
Even in something like Harry Potter, it happens, but it's very soft.
00:23:35
Speaker
In theory, they're power scaling because they're learning more spells as they go through school, right?
00:23:40
Speaker
But I love in a lot of Japanese stuff, they literally attribute a number to it.
00:23:44
Speaker
I mean, famously in Dragon Ball Z, they have a scanner which scans other people's power levels and they literally have a number
00:23:51
Speaker
over 9,000 is the meme, but it's brilliant.
00:23:56
Speaker
And in Demon Slayer, you know, you have the upper six and the lower six and all that.
00:24:01
Speaker
That's so fascinating.
00:24:03
Speaker
I love that.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:04
Speaker
And it lets you as a, as the kind of audience or the reader,
00:24:08
Speaker
kind of gauge exactly where someone is, but you can't, when it gets to the upper levels of it, you are like, I can only wonder how big the gap is between these people.
00:24:18
Speaker
And there's a sequence in season one of Demon Slayer where the main character, it kind of gives his all and he basically doesn't win this fight.
00:24:27
Speaker
And then another character locks up and it's just over in a second.
00:24:30
Speaker
And you kind of see that and you're like, oh my, oh my, this is... It's amazing, isn't it?
00:24:34
Speaker
I didn't realise.
00:24:36
Speaker
I didn't realise how much power there was.
00:24:39
Speaker
That's it!
00:24:39
Speaker
And then they kind of beat a really, really, really hard demon.
00:24:45
Speaker
And then you realise, well, that demon was only... Yeah, exactly.
00:24:50
Speaker
It wasn't even near.
00:24:51
Speaker
And you're thinking, oh my god, how are they going to actually beat the upper ones?
00:24:58
Speaker
but it's planning right it's like there's a this can't be pantsed like the the amount of planning that they put in they know so far in advance where because they have to because if they're going to introduce that you're kind of big bad for the season or that comic edition yes is actually a very small you know demon in a small pond and it turns out later on that like this this person was so insignificant whereas you take
00:25:24
Speaker
something like Harry Potter.
00:25:25
Speaker
And he defeats Voldemort in book one, you know?
00:25:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:28
Speaker
And then again in book two.
00:25:29
Speaker
I've never thought of that.
00:25:32
Speaker
I've never thought of that.
00:25:33
Speaker
You're right.
00:25:34
Speaker
No, you're right.
00:25:35
Speaker
And it's, it's an interesting look at like planning versus pantsing in terms of a long series.
00:25:41
Speaker
So you could take notes for that for your micro-raptor, you see, right there?
00:25:44
Speaker
Well, you know, I agree with that, that, you know, this kind of story requires planning.
00:25:48
Speaker
And actually I, I'm,
00:25:51
Speaker
I've kind of planned, although I'm not a planner, I've planned out a new story that I want to write that does have a magic system.
00:26:00
Speaker
I think I've shown you some.
00:26:01
Speaker
And it does have progression and it does have lots of different levels of abilities, but also stages and ranks.
00:26:13
Speaker
Now, what I plan is I've mapped out all the abilities in terms of where they belong and what's their rank, et cetera, et cetera.
00:26:24
Speaker
So you do need to do planning around that.
00:26:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:28
Speaker
But then when I, you know, write the actual book, let's say book one, most of the story will come through punching.
00:26:37
Speaker
But I will know the different levels.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
So it's going to be a combination.
00:26:43
Speaker
I think that's quite common in fantasy and sci-fi.
00:26:47
Speaker
It sounds like you've built the world.
00:26:49
Speaker
You've done all the world building.
00:26:52
Speaker
So that's your kind of foundation.
00:26:55
Speaker
And then there's lots of flexibility
Creating a Graphic Novel
00:26:57
Speaker
within that.
00:26:57
Speaker
But you know what the rules are of the world system.
00:27:00
Speaker
That's it.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker
And interestingly, I mean, we're talking about graphic novels and manga.
00:27:09
Speaker
So I was thinking I will write this book and submit it as a novel.
00:27:15
Speaker
Then I thought, but wait a minute, it has to be a graphic novel because it works much, much better.
00:27:22
Speaker
So I'm now in the process of finding out how do you submit a graphic novel?
00:27:27
Speaker
And what I've discovered so far is that you need to work with an artist.
00:27:34
Speaker
If you're not an artist yourself, and I'm not, and you don't submit the whole book, but the story, some of the characters, description, and a sample of the art, apparently.
00:27:48
Speaker
But I've researched it a bit more.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, I watched, I think it was a masterclass with Neil Gaiman and he was talking about when he did the Sandman graphic novel.
00:28:01
Speaker
I think it was the Sandman.
00:28:03
Speaker
And, uh, that, yeah, it's, it, it was a back and forth where he would write the pages and then do very like, just kind of like stick men drawings of how he wanted to do it.
00:28:13
Speaker
Then he sends it to the illustrator and the illustrator basically kind of obviously fleshes the whole thing out, but then also maybe slightly rearranges stuff because that's, he has the more like artistic, uh,
00:28:24
Speaker
brain.
00:28:25
Speaker
Neil Gaiman knows where he wants things to be, but he doesn't know the perspectives and how the lighting and the shadows are going to be and things like that.
00:28:32
Speaker
It's definitely a very collaborative medium.
00:28:35
Speaker
It has to be.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:36
Speaker
The two have to work very closely because you're right.
00:28:40
Speaker
I mean, the square boxes with stick people that I will create or Neil Gaiman create are not a designer's mind.
00:28:53
Speaker
will, will rearrange all that in a far more impactful way.
00:28:59
Speaker
So you need to work very closely.
00:29:01
Speaker
There's also some really interesting stuff with comics and manga to do with, you have to think about, uh, paging and page spreads because like a double spread, you can use the whole double spread for like one panel.
00:29:13
Speaker
You choose how many panels you have within each page and like you want turning the page to be the impact.
00:29:20
Speaker
to shock people and things like that.
00:29:23
Speaker
It's a really complicated medium.
00:29:26
Speaker
What brief research I've done in it, I was like, wow, there's so much more to think about here than I realised.
00:29:31
Speaker
You know, you say all that and I'm becoming so much enthusiastic because I love a new thing and this is a new thing.
00:29:40
Speaker
And when I thought and decided, oh no, this is going to be a graphic novel, I was so excited.
00:29:47
Speaker
especially because of all the new details and things and, you know, page spreading, as you said, I thought, oh, that's amazing.
00:29:53
Speaker
It sounds fantastic.
00:29:55
Speaker
You know, so I'm really, really keen to explore that.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
I mean, it's such a cool medium.
00:30:02
Speaker
I'm going to get us back on track here because we're talking about graphic novels now.
00:30:06
Speaker
Before I do that, I will say you, if you haven't maybe speak to your son and talk about maybe watching bleach sometime because bleach is, is, is the manga anime that hugely, I think influenced what demon slayer is.
00:30:21
Speaker
It's the kind of, it's the kind of original kind of,
00:30:25
Speaker
It has a lot of those systems that you can see Demon Slayer was very much inspired by.
Writing Journey and Influences
00:30:29
Speaker
Anyway... I'll tell him tonight, and I'm even keen to go and pick him up from school now and start watching it.
00:30:36
Speaker
But I don't think the teachers will like it.
00:30:38
Speaker
So I'll wait.
00:30:39
Speaker
No, probably not.
00:30:40
Speaker
I don't know if they'll buy it as an excuse.
00:30:44
Speaker
So before we venture over to the desert island, I have one quick question.
00:30:49
Speaker
And that was...
00:30:51
Speaker
If you could go back in time to when you first got into writing seriously before you signed with Amber, would you do anything differently knowing what you know now?
00:30:59
Speaker
Good question.
00:31:05
Speaker
I can't, you know, I don't think I would.
00:31:08
Speaker
You know, a lot, a lot of the kind of the progression in writing came from writing groups.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
So I do the same.
00:31:20
Speaker
I think,
00:31:21
Speaker
They help so much.
00:31:22
Speaker
And also, you get to meet a lot of people like you, for example.
00:31:29
Speaker
You know, it's just a fascinating process.
00:31:34
Speaker
And like I said, I love the people aspect of it.
00:31:37
Speaker
I love that you make new friends with common interests and you discuss all that.
00:31:44
Speaker
Would I change anything?
00:31:46
Speaker
Not really.
00:31:47
Speaker
See, I was also very lucky to kind of
00:31:52
Speaker
you know, progress relatively quickly.
00:31:54
Speaker
Not, you know, it wasn't, you know, super quick, but in the general picture, it was relatively quickly.
00:32:01
Speaker
So yeah, nothing would change, I guess.
00:32:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:07
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it was, some things worked out quickly for you, but I know it took a long time for the quick things to happen for you.
00:32:14
Speaker
That's true as well.
00:32:15
Speaker
That's true as well, yeah.
00:32:17
Speaker
And with a lot of duds as well and some terrible books that I will never speak of.
00:32:24
Speaker
Amazing.
00:32:24
Speaker
So that brings us to the desert island.
00:32:28
Speaker
Philip, if you were stranded on a desert island in the middle of nowhere, all by yourself with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:32:37
Speaker
So I'll talk about Artemis Fowl.
00:32:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
Because it's the book and I've actually, I like the audio book version.
00:32:50
Speaker
And every now and then I listened to it again.
00:32:53
Speaker
So I must have listened to it, you know, seven, eight times.
00:32:56
Speaker
Um, but it's the book that, um, taught me how to write.
00:33:01
Speaker
Uh, and by that, my style is not exactly the same as Owen Colfer's, but, but the kind of the confidence and voice and humor and adventure showed me what is possible because I wasn't finding, uh, all that in, in,
00:33:19
Speaker
other books that I was reading.
00:33:22
Speaker
And as soon as I listened to Artemis Fowl, my writing changed.
00:33:29
Speaker
I don't know exactly how it worked, but it just made me a lot more confident in writing.
00:33:34
Speaker
So I listened to that.
00:33:37
Speaker
And if I can cheat a little bit,
00:33:40
Speaker
I recently listened to The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco, and I hadn't read that book for ages.
00:33:51
Speaker
I think I read it when I was a teenager.
00:33:54
Speaker
There was a movie also back then, but it's absolutely brilliant.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's a fantastic book, and I'll take that with me as well.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:06
Speaker
I think you're so right about Artemis Fowl.
00:34:07
Speaker
That was the kind of, that was a book that really resonated with me when I was younger.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I think part of it was because
00:34:15
Speaker
if you don't read that much or if you're younger and you haven't been exposed to that many books, there's an idea, like a notion that all books have to be kind of sophisticated and poetic and follow these structures and things.
00:34:29
Speaker
And reading Artemis Fowl to me when I was younger was a kind of like, you can kind of just be whatever you want to be and just say things however you want to say them and just be cheeky, but also be clever and
00:34:42
Speaker
I think he does that so well.
00:34:44
Speaker
Exactly that.
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:34:46
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:34:47
Speaker
Like, um, Terry Pratchett.
00:34:49
Speaker
And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, where I was saying with your kind of style of writing, it's much more about the voice and the things that are happening than the concept or the setting perhaps.
00:35:00
Speaker
And it's like, I could read Terry Pratchett writing about anything and I wouldn't, I know I would enjoy it.
00:35:06
Speaker
Me too.
00:35:07
Speaker
And you know, he can, he can,
00:35:10
Speaker
You know, make a joke in the most inappropriate situation.
00:35:18
Speaker
And at the same time, so make a joke and in the next sentence say the most profound thing you've ever read.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:27
Speaker
All in one paragraph and only Terry Pratchett can do that.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:32
Speaker
There is something that Terry Pratchett had that I don't think will ever be replicated again.
00:35:38
Speaker
A truly unique author.
Conclusion and Extended Content
00:35:42
Speaker
Amazing.
00:35:43
Speaker
Look, I know how long Mission MicroRaptor has been in the works and we're going to chat about the very first draft all those years ago, as well as the temptation of self-publishing and writing advice.
00:35:53
Speaker
But this is the end of the regular episode and we are into the extended cut exclusive to my amazing Patreon subscribers who really do make running this podcast possible.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yes, so nice to speak with you.
00:36:08
Speaker
It sounds amazing.
00:36:09
Speaker
I'm so excited that your book's finally out and that it all seems to be having fun.
00:36:12
Speaker
I hope you continue to enjoy all these school visits and everything that you're doing.
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's been awesome chatting with you.
00:36:18
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:36:19
Speaker
Same here.
00:36:20
Speaker
Thank you.
00:36:21
Speaker
And if you want to keep up with what Philip is doing, you can follow him on all socials at Philip Cavadius, or you can find his website, philipcavadius.com.
00:36:31
Speaker
To support the podcast, like, follow, and subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and follow along on socials.
00:36:36
Speaker
Join the Patreon for extended episodes ad-free and a week early and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:36:41
Speaker
Thanks again, Philip.
00:36:42
Speaker
And thanks to everyone listening.
00:36:43
Speaker
We will catch you on the next episode.