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Episode 59: The 13th Warrior featuring Alice Ebenhoe
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Alice Ebenhoe is back and has brought in another historical adventure film: The 13th Warrior (1999). This one stars Antonio Banderas and pretty much nobody else, though it was directed by McTiernan and is based on a Crichton novel. It’s a plausible (but fictional) retelling of the origin of the epic poem Beowulf from a spectator’s point of view. Audiences didn’t take to a film whose main character isn’t the story’s main character, but it certainly is an entertaining revisit for the panel. It’s full of laughs and we have our first tiebreaker, so tune in
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Transcript
Introduction and Concept Overview
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. It's the only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:52
Speaker
We're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson, and with me, as always, i have the original first warrior, Mr. Greg Bossy.
00:01:03
Speaker
Hello. How are you doing today, Greg? i am feeling good, excited to talk about this one. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. Pretty okay. I'm a little burned out.
00:01:16
Speaker
but i say Going from good to okay is an interesting shift, but I'll take it. Yeah, let like I had to reevaluate. Let's knock it down to okay. That's fair. And um my poor wife, Anna, it's on day three of a migraine. So prayers up for Anna, everybody.
00:01:33
Speaker
ah But the good news is we have with us a very special guest, a returning guest, She might not live in a cave full of bear people, but she's one bad mother. It's Alice Evenhoe.
00:01:48
Speaker
Thank you. I'm so happy you you're having me back to talk about another movie about scruffy guys running around in the woods, because apparently that's just my area. but was yes What was the other suggestion you made? ah In the Name of the King.
00:02:04
Speaker
Okay, good, because that's what I was thinking of when I saw this. I was like, it's very similar to that one, actually, in a number of ways. I've got lane. Yeah, it's a good lane.
00:02:17
Speaker
It's an enjoyable lane for me, at least. Yes. No, no. i I had a blast with this one. Listeners, if you haven't, ah this week we're talking about the 13th Warrior. i'm Sorry if we buried the lead, but we're talking 13th Warrior.
00:02:30
Speaker
And if you haven't seen 13th Warrior, here's just a short summary of the film to hold in your mind.
00:02:44
Speaker
an ambassador from the Baghdad Caliphate joins up with a group of Vikings, 12 of them to be specific, to help defend a small northern village against marauding primitives.
Summary and Context of 'The 13th Warrior'
00:02:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yep, that's it. Yeah, I think that's that's fair to say. yeah Now, ah Alice, why did you choose the 13th Warrior? where where does your What's your backstory here?
00:03:10
Speaker
So... In college, I had a roommate and we also lived together for a couple of years after college. And she was the person who had the gigantic bin full of DVDs.
00:03:23
Speaker
okay And the 13th Warrior was one of them. And another point of context here is that when we were roommates in college, we were roommates in the classics house, the coolest house for very not nerdy people who definitely don't no no aren't no looking for movies featuring dead languages or anything like that. no no why would they?
00:03:48
Speaker
i Yeah. um But you're busy partying. yeah so Classics house! Pull over the jinks. yeah so we ah So this ended up being sort of one of my kind of go-to movies for like a weekend when you want to just put something on.
00:04:08
Speaker
Don't have to think about too much. You're doing other stuff around the house. But you're like, oh, yeah, I i just want to watch ah Antonio Banderas sword fighting with some Vikings because that's just reliable entertainment.
00:04:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You certainly can't deny that that happens in this film. you and It definitely does. It's one of its many joys. Yeah. multiple times yeah three I think Greg what's your back story with 13th War you seen this one before oh yeah so my back story is that um I loved Michael Crichton as a boy that's what got me into writing so I had read Eaters of the Dead the book that this is based on by the time I was in 6th or 7th grade um so when the movie came out I was certainly interested
00:04:57
Speaker
I don't think that I was like gung ho to see it, but I definitely had friends that are like, we want to go see the 13th warrior. Are you in? I was like, yeah. And that was at the time when I was just going to see movies all the time, especially with these guys.
00:05:09
Speaker
So I saw it in the theater and I remember enjoying it at the time. So it's fun to revisit it this time, actually. And I found myself enjoying it again. Yeah. Yeah. i remember seeing this one.
00:05:19
Speaker
i can't remember if I saw it in theater or I watched it on video first, but I do remember thinking that it was okay. And I didn't understand why I didn't like it more.
00:05:33
Speaker
And for me, that was the most interesting thing that I found about watching it now was trying to figure out what exactly it was that didn't work for me about this movie.
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah. And I have a theory. Okay. But I think it also, it didn't really connect with wider audiences at the time. I remember that it was, it was considered a flop and I'll get into that, into the
Director John McTiernan's Career
00:05:57
Speaker
context.
00:05:57
Speaker
If you guys want, we can, we can just dive right in. I say do it. Sure. Let's do it.
00:06:15
Speaker
I wish I had some context About the background of the film Script director, actors on set What was going on on screen I wanna hear some details Gossips can do all that shit Can't imagine all the time
00:06:44
Speaker
So the 13th Warrior came out August 27th, 1999. The summer after I graduated high school. Same. Director John McTiernan.
00:06:56
Speaker
ah Two taglines for this one. Fear reigns.
00:07:03
Speaker
Okay. Not great. Not great. Yeah. ah Number two. um I'm sorry. Actually, there were three. Number two is An Ordinary Man, An Extraordinary Journey.
00:07:18
Speaker
Sure. Every movie. That is a tagline for movie. Yeah. And also, going to say your movie stars Antonio Banderas, I don't think the play here is, let's make him in every man.
00:07:31
Speaker
Oh, everybody feels like they're Antonio Banderas. Very, very relatable. It's at least better than the prior one. It's true. Last one.
00:07:42
Speaker
Not bad. Pray for the living. Pray with an E. Oh, OK. OK. Yeah. No. that Yeah. I don't think it works with the title. I think it that works better with the original title. Oh, definitely. Yeah. If it was Eaters of the Dead, that would have been much, much better. Yeah.
00:08:01
Speaker
But also then you'd be thinking it was a horror movie. Yeah. Yeah. So, in 1987, John McTiernan directed Predator.
00:08:13
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Then in 1988, he directed Die Hard. Yeah. And then in 1990, he directed The Hunt for Red October.
Inspirations Behind the Film
00:08:25
Speaker
Oh, wow. Man. So, I can't think you so stronger three film run of run of action films made by any other director in history. Can you guys- No, I mean, that's... No, that's a murderer's row. That is just classic, classic, classic. Nailing it every time.
00:08:44
Speaker
Homer's to everyone. Yeah. Unfortunately, he followed this trio with Medicine Man and The Last Action Hero. Oh, he did Last Action Hero? He did Last Action Hero, which I had a soft spot for. I've been meaning again.
00:09:02
Speaker
I got to reevaluate it. I just remember the eight ball for an eye. That's about the only thing that I recall. Yeah. ah He had a minor comeback with Die Hard with a Vengeance.
00:09:14
Speaker
Which is great. I like Die Hard with a Vengeance. Yeah, I think a lot of people do. Yeah, ending's a little weak.
00:09:22
Speaker
Uh, but then, ah he was brought on to direct thirteenth warrior. The 13th Warrior is based on the novel Eaters of the Dead, written by Michael Crichton.
00:09:33
Speaker
ah Now, according to Crichton, the book had two main sources of inspiration. The first is a travel log written by Ahmed Ibn Fadlan, an ambassador from the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad in the 10th century, who wrote about his encounters with the Volga Vikings, as well as the Oghus, the Pechenegs, and the Rus.
00:09:55
Speaker
Okay. The other source of inspiration was a bet he made with a college professor that he could write a version of Beowulf that modern audiences would find interesting.
00:10:07
Speaker
Now, I would say that this plot, if you didn't know it was based on Beowulf, you would not guess. Well... No, no, especially because they pronounce ah Beowulf bullwife.
00:10:21
Speaker
That does make it hard to read. And I definitely wouldn't have guessed that there would have been an Arabian dude hanging out with them if when I read Beowulf. I will say that as a person who read the book, I think that comes through a little more clear, even though i didn't know what it was at the time.
00:10:38
Speaker
ah When I found out what it was, I was like, oh, wait a
Beowulf and Adaptation Challenges
00:10:41
Speaker
sec. You know what I mean? Like things started clicking a little bit and then you look into things like, OK, this makes sense. That's why the things clicked a little bit. Now, Alice, you said you studied the classics. Can you give us a big picture on Beowulf?
00:10:54
Speaker
ah So Beowulf is a old English poem about a Swedish guy who goes and fights a monster called Grendel, who is attacking Herod, which they did use the name Herod in the movie.
00:11:15
Speaker
okay He kills... It's one of these things where it's like he can't be killed with metal weapons, right? no So he gets killed by Beowulf ripping his arm off.
00:11:26
Speaker
And then some things happen and he has to go kill Grendel's mother, who is basically like this troll woman who lives in a lake. Okay.
00:11:37
Speaker
um That's pretty cool. It's cool. I mean, it's not...
00:11:43
Speaker
I wouldn't say it's incredibly plot-driven the way an Odyssey or the Aeneid or something like that is. It's got it's more...
00:11:59
Speaker
cryptic, I think. but I feel like it's one of those things that was written before they invented stories. Do you know what I mean? Or like story structure. Yeah. You just say a bunch of things that happened. was a bunch of things that happened and a bunch of people are related to a bunch of other people and they all had a different fight somewhere else. But that's not what this story is about.
00:12:21
Speaker
a crucial difference is that Beowulf survives his fight with Grendel's mother and doesn't die until like 30 years later and where he gets killed by a dragon in a different episode in the life of Beowulf random Viking man.
00:12:37
Speaker
Well, they apparently if they changed the ending to this at some point. Maybe they were planning a 14th warrior where they would have.
00:12:46
Speaker
But it's also it's like the oldest surviving English language text.
1999 Adventure Films and McTiernan's Career Challenges
00:12:51
Speaker
Right. Am I as m i fine i'm remembering that? I think that's right. I think that's right. It's like the oldest manuscript of something that can be considered English. Yeah. Yeah. Like and you can like almost read it. Like if you try really hard and you're a high school student, you can almost read it.
00:13:11
Speaker
think maybe. i was Was my experience reading it in high school, best as I can recall. Now, the book Eaters of the Dead was originally optioned by Touchstone Pictures back in 1979 with to direct. Yeah.
00:13:29
Speaker
And I think an 80s version of this might work better. It'd be pretty cool. but Yeah, i did this that would be different vibes. Yeah, that might have been...
00:13:41
Speaker
more appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. they look a little cartoony a little bit. Like if you Dolph Lundgren as Beowulf and I don't know who has even somebody.
00:13:57
Speaker
I think, you know, I think there would be something there. But in any case, it fell through until the mid nineties when they started ramping up production again. It went into the production under the title of The Eaters is of the Dead, which I think we're all in agreement, better title.
00:14:12
Speaker
Much better title. Much better. ah The production quickly started going over budget. Action-filled epic period pieces shot in remote locations tend to do that. You know, not that British Columbia is too far out there, but ah they weren't shooting on a studio back lot or anything, or even in downtown Toronto, you know.
00:14:31
Speaker
And there were a lot of horses, so, you know. Yeah, and there was a huge cast, you know. This was not something that was going to be easy. And a lot of that budget shows up on screen.
00:14:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. It looks good. Like, the movie looks good. The problem is not, well, some of most of the movies. The sets are The formal elements are good.
00:14:54
Speaker
i think I think the nighttime scenes and the cave scenes get a little bit too dark, and I have a hard time following the actions. That is true. That is true.
00:15:05
Speaker
i was thinking mostly of like the fireworm on the hill. that know There are a lot of individual things that look really cool. The fireworm looked really cool, but there are a lot just and almost all the action happens at night or in a cave.
00:15:18
Speaker
And so you're almost always struggling to follow what's happening. ah Now, initial test screenings were disastrous. Audiences just straight up did not like this movie.
00:15:30
Speaker
Interesting. Touchstone, in a panic, they brought Crichton on to direct reshoots. And he also commissioned a new score and changed the ending. Really?
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah. I'm so curious what the other one is like. yeah He's also interesting as a director because he did Westworld, which is actually pretty good. i think the original Westworld is an entertaining little entertaining little interesting piece.
00:15:56
Speaker
ah And so it's interesting to know that he had something to do with some part of this at some point. Like his work is on screen with this one, which is kind of fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I have no idea how much exactly. And I bet there's from what I read, I got the information that there's a lot more scholarship out there that I did not find listeners. If you want to learn more about this, go out there.
00:16:18
Speaker
There are resources, you know, this is just a light intro podcast. Come on. I can only get all the info on a really weird, obscure movies. Uh, Let's see. but but but papa ah This ballooned the budget upwards of $160 million. dollars Wow. In 1999 money.
00:16:41
Speaker
Now, it only took in $61.7 million at the box office. And it put a real damper on McTiernan's career. Yeah. He did have a solid hit with the remake of The Thomas Crown Affair later that same year. A great movie.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's
Personal Experiences with 'The 13th Warrior'
00:16:58
Speaker
a great movie. Turns out I've seen a lot of McTiernan's I didn't realize. He made a lot of bangers. ah You might have even seen his other two movies, which were not good, which were Rollerball and the military thriller Basic.
00:17:16
Speaker
No, no to either. Yeah, no. ah Rollerball was very bad. And Basic, I don't remember anything about. Basic is not X versus Sever.
00:17:27
Speaker
No, that's a list. I mean, we shouldn't talk about that one, but that's I've always been very curious about that one. All right. I'm going to put that one on the Plex for sure.
00:17:39
Speaker
But I'll say that ah basic it starred Samuel Jackson and John Travolta. It was a big reunion for them. That was part of the hype. And it was but it was just them being like military police questioning people. near I can remember like it was a mystery.
00:17:55
Speaker
Perfect. ah But another problem that he had after Basic completely flopped was that he went to jail for lying to the FBI about hiring a private investigator to place illegal wiretaps.
00:18:08
Speaker
I'm sorry? Uh, He hired a private investigator to place illegal wiretaps. On whom? I believe on studio executives. He was very cagey after the 13th Warrior, I believe.
00:18:22
Speaker
And also the pretty much the same thing happened on Rollerball. ah Wow. eve He became kind of paranoid. And then when the FBI asked him about it, he lied about it. And the judge sent him to jail, I think, for three months.
00:18:39
Speaker
i I can't remember sound the duration. And since then, he's really he stopped working. He apparently does some uncredited script doctoring, but that's about it.
00:18:50
Speaker
and kind He had a good run. i mean, yeah, yeah, he did. no one could take his his hits away from him. No, not even him. No.
00:19:02
Speaker
Other adventure films of 1999. Oh, yes. Give you the state of the art. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. got the movie that made everybody bisexual, The Mummy. Oh, yeah.
00:19:14
Speaker
You got The Phantom Menace. Star Wars is back, baby, for the first time ever. Can you remember when that was a revolutionary idea? a new Star movie? A new Star Wars. I was so excited. Yeah.
00:19:29
Speaker
I was never a Star Wars guy. i didn't I didn't really care. And then I thought it was really funny that people didn't like it. Yeah, my family was i was. So I jumped in and I was like, this is fine. Yeah, was a big Star Wars child.
00:19:41
Speaker
And that was... i believed i liked that movie the first time I saw it. and yeah convinced myself. so Well, it's it's getting you know it's getting a renaissance.
00:19:53
Speaker
People are re-evaluating it. You also got Wow Wow West. Yes. Now there's a movie that will never get a reevaluation.
00:20:05
Speaker
I should reevaluate it myself. I just remember Kenneth Branagh making racist jokes and then Will Smith responding with handicap jokes.
00:20:18
Speaker
Okay. Maybe I'm not going to reevaluate that one But you also got a Clevin Klein and Salma Hayek. Yeah. So those two are love. Yeah. ah You got Galaxy Quest. Everybody loves a Perfect. I love a Galaxy Quest.
00:20:30
Speaker
yeah This is a good year for movies. It was. Yeah. 1999 was a great year. You got Sleepy Hollow. Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow. Okay. You got Luc Besson's The Messenger.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah. That was the Joan of Arc movie. Yeah. With Mila Jones. Oh, yeah. That makes more sense. It's a weird ass movie. I should watch that one maybe. And last but not least, I got Beowulf with Christopher Lambert as Beowulf.
00:21:03
Speaker
Perfect. oh Which I bet is good. I bet it's good. I bet it's got Christopher Lambert in it. Yeah, we're getting a lot of good suggestions for the planks today.
00:21:17
Speaker
Well, with that, do you guys want to talk about the plot of ah yeah The 13th Warrior?
Retelling of the Film's Events
00:21:22
Speaker
Let's do it
00:21:41
Speaker
Plot bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:21:54
Speaker
Plot bumper, plot bumper.
00:22:07
Speaker
So we're introduced to Ahmed Ibn Fadlan, Ibn to his friends, played by Antonio Banderas, who tells us he was a poet in Baghdad, but he got caught doing the nasty with the vizier's wife.
00:22:22
Speaker
Always a bad idea. So I was sort of under the impression that she just like looked at him in the hallway and that dude was like, uh-uh, no way. But I also couldn't tell. couldn't tell. you know they she was getting the no She was getting it came from Antonio Banderas.
00:22:39
Speaker
What do you think about Antonio Banderas? I have a real soft spot for Antonio Banderas. Yeah, i like him. I also have a real soft spot for Antonio Banderas between this movie and the Mark of Zorro, Mask of Zorro.
00:22:51
Speaker
Mask of Zorro, yeah. Like, he's delightful. i And he was in El Mariachi, right? El Mariachi, Desperado. and was not in El Mariachi. Yes, yes, yes.
00:23:04
Speaker
But I remember when I was ah in high school and we were all like little film nerds and that's when Robert Rodriguez was big. And so we were all like, oh my God, he figured it out. He he figured out how to do it for $10,000. We could just do this.
00:23:19
Speaker
And so he was, you know, so inspiring to a whole generation of of young filmmakers. And obviously you had Antonio Banderas being the coolest dude you've ever seen in your life in Desperado.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and And like the kind of dude where like, Cis straight women were like crazy horny for him for like six months. And every dude would be like, I understand. i yeah That's a type of sexiness that I understand.
00:23:45
Speaker
It yeah all computes to me. I mean, late 90s Antonio Banderas, it is hard to imagine a sexually awake person not finding him.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Regardless. He was a sexual icon. Yeah. no yeah Now, ah so because he fucked the vizier's wife, allegedly, he gets named the ambassador to the northern lands as punishment. Yeah.
00:24:16
Speaker
It's sort of a fancy exile for him. So he and his translator Melchizedek, played by Omar Sharif, who hated this movie so much he temporarily retired.
00:24:28
Speaker
Wow. Which is so sad. and also I don't quite get it. It must have been really unpleasant to... to film because he's not in the movie very much.
00:24:39
Speaker
Maybe Mick Tiernan was getting really weird at this point if he would eventually go on to be like wiretapping people, you know? That is yeah possible. Yeah. And also, while I enjoyed this movie, I could understand a guy who's like raised on classic Hollywood watching this movie and be like, I can't see anything that's happening. There's no fucking story. This movie sucks.
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah. Like, there are two fundamental tests that this movie kind of fails, and the rest of the movies play on catch-up. Sure! Sure! Fair enough. Now, they're riding along in their caravan when they're suddenly beset by a Tartar raiding party.
00:25:17
Speaker
They flee as fast as they can, and the Tartars soon give up the chase when they see somebody even tougher than them, some Vikings. Yeah. Yeah. Great intro. Just see the dragon boat with the music blaring in the background. it's like I mean, to be honest, this like the whole like start from we see the the boat coming in and then the credits and him explaining everything with everything. And they're like, we have to walk out for the Tartars. And be like, that's the Tartars. Like we have to run. That's the Vikings.
00:25:46
Speaker
So wild kind of like first five minutes. Yeah, they do a lot of storytelling. up Oh, yeah. It's really it's really packed in the front. They really want to like make you believe that this guy could be here.
00:26:02
Speaker
You know what I mean? They didn't, they knew that they were going to have a tough time selling that. So they spent a lot of time in the beginning of the movie, setting up the table and they spent a lot of energy on it.
Character Development and Cultural Dynamics
00:26:12
Speaker
Now,
00:26:15
Speaker
Let's see. ah Ibn and Melchizedek go check out the Vikings' riverside encampment. This is the Volga River, from what I read. So they should be somewhere in Russia. These Viking raiders are sailing down the river and raiding and then going back home.
00:26:29
Speaker
That's their deal. Melchizedek asks in Greek if anybody can introduce him to their top dog. And eventually someone responds in Latin that their head guy is dead and that this is his funeral.
00:26:43
Speaker
And I think this interlingual dialogue is one of the real charms of this movie. yeah I agree. This was like, I really like that it like engages with the concept that people speak different languages and you wouldn't just be ah able to talk to each other directly.
00:27:05
Speaker
And granted, I don't know if it entirely succeeds with what it's trying to do in that area, But I do love this little section where there's a good 10, 15 minutes where our friend Blonde Viking is just speaking in Latin.
00:27:19
Speaker
And we're just having to deal with that. yeah Yeah. And he's, yeah, we're getting translated from Norse to Latin ah to Greek to Arabic, which Arabic is played by English. in Yes. Yeah, it's it was wild to you don't see that many like scenes of translating text in most things. It's usually like one that's like we're doing three or four. It's pretty wild.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it sets you in the story and it it grounds it, you know, as opposed to having everybody just all know the same language. It does make it feel more historically realistic. Now, this translator that we've just met is Herger the Joyous. Sure.
00:28:01
Speaker
And he's sort of the main Viking that Ibn will be interacting with for the rest of the film. Yes, he is Buddy Cop Viking. i like him a lot. He's great. He's great. He's apparently this Norwegian actor. I forgot to write down his name, but he ah this was pretty much his only English language work.
00:28:19
Speaker
But I thought he was really crushing in this. He's really good. He's doing really good. I hope he has a great career. He was certainly working and he yeah was a real charmer here. His English was great. I was amazed that he never came back, but I guess this movie was such a big flop. And if Omar Sharif is to be believed such a bad time that he's like, ah, fuck it, I'm staying in Norway.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah. So then we get a big Viking funeral where they burn a young woman alive on a boat with to go with the old king. And then the next day, an envoy arrives from the north by boat.
00:28:52
Speaker
I do want to say that that scene with the funeral and the woman getting sacrificed, that is actually from Ibn Fadlan's ah memoirs. Like, that scene is relatively accurate to what he described.
00:29:09
Speaker
Okay. So up until that point of the movie, we're actually in actual history. and Okay, cool. Now, an envoy arrives by boat, and he tells them that the back in the north, they're being beset by an unnamed evil, and they need help from the new headman of the camp, Bullvife, a.k.a.
00:29:33
Speaker
Beowulf. So, uh, man, well, he brings in his witchy woman to cast the stones to determine their best chances for success, always a good idea. Yeah.
00:29:44
Speaker
Love a bone throwing. Yeah. This scene with the, with, with this person is really great too. Cause a lot of the movie is from in's, uh, it beens perspective. So like, you're mostly like seeing her back, like holding up a bone and shaking it. But he's just like, don't know what is going on.
Climactic Moments and Resolution
00:30:01
Speaker
It's it's, I like this scene quite a bit.
00:30:04
Speaker
And I like that anytime someone new would like sign up to go on the quest, Omar Sharif would be like, that's number eight.
00:30:13
Speaker
She says that they're going to need 13 warriors, one for each month of the year. And the 13th can be no North man. And so all eyes fall on Ibn, who basically gets kidnapped by the Vikings to go do this with them.
00:30:25
Speaker
Yes. And Melchizedek is like, that's you. I'm not doing that. I am exiting the movie now. ah yeah back to Baghdad for old Melchizedek.
00:30:40
Speaker
Uh, the next day, all the dudes bust evens chops about, uh, riding a tiny horse and even says goodbye to me. Chisel tech. Cause he's off on an adventure. Now, you might think it would be a problem for Eben to lose his translator, and the film has a nice little sequence of Eben learning to speak Norse, which I think is less elegant than... Like, they had to solve this problem.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah. So they solved it by having, like, a little ah montage of... Antonio Banderas watching everybody speak Norse and then English words start getting mixed in.
00:31:19
Speaker
And then he has a scene where he speaks to them and everybody's speaking in English for the rest of the movie. And they ask him how we did this. And he famously responds, I listened.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. Which is exactly how you learn a foreign language. Definitely. You just listen. Listen. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. For the about four days ah week. Yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
Anyway, anyway, to me, this moment, the way that they delivered it, it had sort of a big ah Arabian boy stuns entire Viking restaurant by ordering an perfect Norse.
00:31:54
Speaker
ah Very much so. yeah Yeah. Because, of course, the first thing he says is insulting one of them's mother or something. But it's it's also, i do like that he's doing it very slowly as though he's speaking that language. So he's like, at least I know who my father was. And it's just like, way to go, way to go.
00:32:19
Speaker
You got it. He nailed it. He got there. um Now, this does begin improving relations between Eben and the other 12 warriors. Beowulf asks Eben if he knows how to, quote, draw sounds, a.k.a. write, and Eben gives him a little demo.
00:32:39
Speaker
There's some more travel shenanigans, and finally they reach Norway and the village of King Hrothgar. it's sort of a sad pile of sticks and mud. And most of the men are away on rating parties or what have you at this point in time.
00:32:54
Speaker
Uh, then, even spies, a nude child running out of the forest. And, when they ride out to his home and isolated farm, a few miles away, they find his whole family dead and partially eaten.
00:33:09
Speaker
Uh, there are human bear hybrid footprints, but the trail soon goes dead. Still, Egg-Though the Silent, possibly my third favorite warrior, comments much that they're being watched.
00:33:23
Speaker
So I can't lie to you. I couldn't figure out any of their names. ah No, I had to use Wikipedia. Yeah, no, I've seen this movie like a dozen times. I do not know any of their names. I know Buddy Cop, Tony Curran, and the tall guy, who I think is Egg-Though the Silent.
00:33:41
Speaker
Egg-Though the Silent the one that was all in black and was really cool. He the goth. Was he the one that's in the tree later? Yeah, he's the one that's in the tree. Yeah. I like him. He's good.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. they They don't have names. Like, they don't they don't bother trying to teach you most of their names. But they do at least have distinct looks and, like, one character trait. So you're like, okay, oh, that guy, he's the sniper.
00:34:06
Speaker
That guy, he's Tattoo Face. That guy, he's, for some reason, there's a Scotsman up in the mix. Yeah, Tony Curran. There's a Scotsman there. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know why.
00:34:18
Speaker
The guy who won't take off his armor. Yeah, the guy that loves armor. The old guy. yeah The guy with, like, the pigtails. Oh, yeah. They got a bunch of different great guys.
00:34:30
Speaker
um Now they head back to Hrothgar's. And ah they hear from a one-eyed survivor of a previous attack that they call these man beasts the Wendell.
00:34:42
Speaker
They attack from the mists and they can summon the Glow Worm, a giant serpent made of fire. yeah oh We also meet Hrothgar's shitty son, Wigliff, who is in this movie for no apparent reason.
00:34:57
Speaker
Absolutely no reason. He's in the poem. So that's why he's there. He's to be there. he's got to be there Plot-wise, completely pointless.
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah, he is a completely isolated B-plot that gets handled within the first hour, maybe 50 minutes of the movie. Now that night, a mist is rolling in, so they put all the villagers in the basement of the Great Hall.
00:35:25
Speaker
The Vikings on guard duty, our 13 warriors, all decide that they should go to sleep. I don't know why they don't post people on
Final Thoughts and Ratings
00:35:35
Speaker
guard duty. I don't know why they don't stay up, but they all go to sleep.
00:35:40
Speaker
It's because they're so comfortable with death that they're okay with it. So they can sleep. Now, should they? That's a great question, but they're going. Yeah. There's a should here that I don't think is being addressed.
00:35:52
Speaker
I definitely, if I was even, at least I'd be like, I'm going to volunteer to stay on watch. How about that? Fellas? How about we have one guy on watch? Uh, They do all wake up in the middle of the night when they're attacked by the Wendel.
00:36:06
Speaker
Two of the warriors fall, but they do manage to kill some baddies at least. They don't find any bodies. The Wendels sneak off with their own bodies as well as the heads of their victims. Now, ah Ibn, for his part, he doesn't get killed.
00:36:20
Speaker
He doesn't run away. And he even manages to kill Wendel. And so the Vikings all admit that he did better than they expected. They're all very happy. Like, okay. He busted Jerry. This guy, he's he' part of the crew. Okay.
00:36:34
Speaker
This guy's okay. ah i also got to say, ah the movie is kind of gory, actually. Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of people getting ripped all the way open. it's Yeah.
00:36:46
Speaker
A lot of dismemberment. Yes. now Now that they have a better idea of what's up, Beowulf gets King Hrothgar to have the whole town build some fortifications, seven samurai style.
00:37:01
Speaker
yeah Ibn also has a local blacksmith grind his longsword down to a scimitar, which can wield much more effectively and is pretty cool. i I wrote that down as the the forged in fire chaos challenge, but I don't like, I'm pretty sure that that's not how blacksmithing works.
00:37:22
Speaker
No, he did just grind it down. He didn't do any reforging. I guess you could do it, but it would probably take him with that stone wheel like three days. Now, Herger, he picks a fight with one of Prince Wigliff's lackeys and kills him in a duel.
00:37:42
Speaker
And that's the end of Wigliff's plotline. Congratulations. Goodbye, Wigliff.
00:37:48
Speaker
That night, the Gloverm attacks. Mm-hmm. It turns out it's just a long line of horsemen carrying torches, but that's still also pretty bad.
00:37:59
Speaker
And it looks pretty cool from the distance. It looks really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's going through this forested mountainside and you just see this long trail of fire. That's clearly just these guys burning the forest to the ground around them, which is fucking crazy in and of itself. But from a distance, it does look like a giant worm made of fire. It's sick.
00:38:23
Speaker
Now, ah tutatatata we get another great battle scene that is completely obscured by darkness. This one, it's got pikes and it's got a sniper archer.
00:38:37
Speaker
Ibn kills one. And this time there's enough light that he can clearly see that it's just a man wearing a bear skin and not a bear man monster, some sort of bear manster. And he feels much better.
00:38:49
Speaker
um He's like, oh, they're just men. Yeah, this just this this unlock something for him and he just becomes a monster at this point. It's like I could kill a man. That's yeah ah kill a bunch of men. yeah It's so crazy to me that the entire time it seems like he's like kind of a pacifist maybe or something.
00:39:08
Speaker
And then he's like, oh, it's just dudes. I'll kill those. A lot of them. Yes. I mean, to be fair, to be fair, sure would you rather find out, would you be more frightened if you thought you're being attacked by an army of monsters or an army of monsters?
00:39:24
Speaker
it's difficult for me to put myself in a space where I could believe that it is monsters that are attacking me. Okay. You know what I mean? You saw them and it was a monster.
00:39:34
Speaker
was it was You were being attacked by minotaur. So the problem is, for me, it's like, in reality? Because those aren't real. You know what I mean?
00:39:45
Speaker
So I'm sure that it would break me if I saw a minotaur. I'm sure that I would have the sword and I would just be like, ah... Yeah, so when he finds out it's just a man, now he's like... I could kill indiscriminately.
00:39:57
Speaker
I could kill indiscriminately, sure. Well, at the very least... I mean, they deserve it. I mean, they they are attacking them, and it's they're pretty They're throwing fire all over the place, and they've ripped people's heads off. It's like, yeah.
00:40:10
Speaker
So he's he's pretty psyched, and he's killing dudes. Now, unfortunately, ah few more warriors bite him. But fortunately, Beowulf has an exciting new plan.
00:40:22
Speaker
We're going to take the fight to them. They're never going to expect it. So they head over to this area's local witchy woman, our second witchy woman of the film. And ah she looks at a small idol that Ibn found.
00:40:35
Speaker
And she tells the boys that they're going to need to kill the Wendell's mother as well as their war chief. And then the whole band will just scatter, cut off the snake's two heads, and you'll be good.
00:40:47
Speaker
Cool. They love this plan. They're on board with it. So the boys follow the tracks that the Wendell left. And Ibn realizes, wait, if they're acting like bears, they probably sleep where bears do.
00:41:03
Speaker
Caves. Yeah. Where's there a cave? I love that it takes this long to figure this out after she's like, they're like, where is she? She's like, she's in the earth. In the earth.
00:41:14
Speaker
It's just like, where well, where? It's just like, in a cave, you idiots. Just think about it for a moment. Nobody could think of this except for Aben. None of these guys have ever heard of a cave. He saves them so many times with observation and knowledge.
00:41:30
Speaker
Well, he's the brains of the organization. It's true. Let's be honest. None of the other 12 warriors was like, he's the smart one. You know what I mean?
00:41:43
Speaker
So, yeah, they're like, oh, yeah, I know where there's a cave in the cliff wall. And they go over to the cliff wall and there's a long rope bridge leading out of the cave that's in the cliff wall.
00:41:54
Speaker
Now, at this point, I'm not sure why they don't just destroy the bridge. And then all the cavemen will just starve to death. Or if they, you know, this seems pretty simple.
00:42:06
Speaker
That's not very exciting on screen, though. No, it's true. That's a bad movie. That is not the warrior's code. They have to go, you know, kill them with axes. Otherwise, it doesn't count.
00:42:18
Speaker
All right. Alternate plan. Alternate plan. yeah As they come out, shoot them. I like that. that Because they have to come out a single file. You get like 20 guys and you just keep shooting them. you get You need a lot of arrows. See, you'd be a great Viking strategist. Thank you. It comes from playing D&D.
00:42:41
Speaker
ah Now... They, instead of following either of these two great plans that I have, they infiltrate the cave, which has an aesthetic best described as mid-sized Elden Ring dungeon.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yep. Yep, yep, yep. See, I was just thinking of cave dwellers. No, this is definitely like the second or third kind of landmass you get to. Like, oh, this one's a little bigger. Okay.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah. Not too big, but a little bigger. Now, ah they're sneaking their way to the bottom past creepy skulls and waterfalls, and they have to climb down a rope.
00:43:23
Speaker
and Almost get spotted a couple of times. Yeah. Lots of great infiltration stuff. They do kill some guards as they're going in. No, that's true. Put, like, a hood over somebody's head and then stab him, which is like...
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, that way he can't see it coming. It's a kindness.
00:43:42
Speaker
They soon find a group of Wendell chanting in prayer and kill them all. Yes. Beowulf tells the boys to stand guard while he kills the mama.
00:43:53
Speaker
But then two things go wrong. First, pretty soon the whole dang cave figures out that our heroes are here and start racing towards them. And ah second, though Beowulf does manage to kill the mother, she manages to poison him in the exchange.
00:44:09
Speaker
With her evil long claw fingernail. yeah yeah she's dipping it in some goo evil goo yeah this lady's bad news it's a good thing they took care her the boys flee further into the cave following a stream and like every stream in any cave in any movie that i've ever seen it has to come out somewhere and this one does yeah this one comes out into the ocean good news vikings love the ocean I did not like the scene where they're swimming through the cave, though, because it's a under a rock. to get out I was just like, this is not I don't enjoy this.
00:44:47
Speaker
No, if it's a terrible person that doesn't like, you know, brown almost drowning in movies. Yeah, this is like that's going on. No one enjoys that. I thought it was very exciting.
00:44:59
Speaker
No, I mean, it It is. it is Unfortunately, not everybody escapes. The one Viking that really loves wearing armor did die. His armor did not ultimately protect him. does he Is he the one that stays back?
00:45:13
Speaker
Yeah, he's the one who's like, go! I love that we have this moment. During that, I was thinking, like, if you're the person who stays back, are you, like, kind of secretly hoping that it just, they don't come for you?
00:45:25
Speaker
You know what mean? Like, you sit there being like, oh, maybe was. like, I'll play dead, and they'll just keep going. I'll just sneak out the other way.
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, there ah that would be my play, but i guess I don't have that Viking ethos. But at this point, we're probably closer to like six, seven warriors, I would say. Yeah. Yeah, we're rare at least down half.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. So they're soon back at the Great Hall. Feelings are mixed. They did successfully kill the mother, but the war chief is still out there. And Beowulf kind of looks like shit at this point.
00:46:04
Speaker
yeah His, like, I'm dying of poison makeup is pretty effective. He looks terrible. What did you guys think of the actor playing Beowulf?
00:46:16
Speaker
um I like Yeah, go please say what you're going to say. I have more. I think he was not charismatic enough. I think they needed somebody with a little more shine to be like, this is a legendary hero.
00:46:34
Speaker
This to me, he just read like the biggest guy. I feel like that is a criticism you could put on kind of most of the people. Like when we have listed the 13 warriors, we have listed like five.
00:46:49
Speaker
There are eight of them that are just like there that I have no kind of recollection of. Yeah. so he seems like I feel like the point of the movie was that those people aren't that interesting, if that makes a measure of sense.
00:47:07
Speaker
But I feel like Beowulf needs to be above. To me, it would have been better if he was more heroic. I'm not saying it's a good idea that they made it that way. I'm just saying I feel like that's what they were trying to say. But I could be wrong.
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah, kind of felt like they were trying to make him a thoughtful guy. like He's this big Viking warrior, but he wants... He's he's a philosopher king. Yeah, like because he he writes back what Eben wrote before, and he's like, can you read that? And Eben can. And then he like walks away and is like, ha yeah, I can do that. um I don't think that...
00:47:45
Speaker
the actor was served by how much of the plot was fighting in caves. Like if they were doing other things where like him being sort of this thoughtful, quiet kind of guy that could have like been more highlighted. I think it would have been more effective. Like maybe there was plot lines cut out like with,
00:48:06
Speaker
whatever the king's son guy or something. we live Wigliff. Yeah. That's what would have fixed it. More Wigliff. Maybe not.
00:48:17
Speaker
now ah ah So they prepare for a counterattack and soon they spy some enemies approaching. Ibn prays one last time before Beowulf stumbles out of his deathbed to join the fight.
00:48:32
Speaker
With his dog. There's a very cute dog. Great dog. He's got great ginger dog. they The Wendell attack.
00:48:44
Speaker
Beowulf kills the guy that he has to kill and then the Wendell scatter. Then Beowulf sits down and succumbs to the poison.
00:48:54
Speaker
Only five warriors lived to tell the tale.
Representation of Muslim Protagonists
00:48:58
Speaker
Ibn then sets sail with a hearty goodbye from Herger and writes the world's oldest book, Beowulf.
00:49:05
Speaker
Boom. The end. Yep. Yep. So, final thoughts. Five-star ratings on our two-axis scale. Does anybody want to go first?
00:49:16
Speaker
I can go. Yes, Greg, thank you. When I was watching it this time, I had a similar experience to when I was watching it when I was younger, which is that like I know the book, so it is entertaining for me in a way to like, oh, yeah. like It is genuinely, if you're looking to adapt a book and is adapt to just the plot, I feel like this movie does a pretty good job of being an adaptation of a book in making it kind of work.
00:49:44
Speaker
you know, without cutting out too much or doing too much. That said, I enjoyed it at the time. And i was like, I think this is pretty watchable. i would, I'm trying to give it a four, but as time passes, I think back on the movie and I'm like, it's kind of dull actually.
00:50:00
Speaker
And um there's a really, like the plot is basically just like, we got a problem. The problem is these dudes come and they fight us until they kill some of us. And then they run away usually because someone blows a horn.
00:50:12
Speaker
And then we do that three or four more times. And every time some of our people die and every time some of those people die and then we do it again. And there's almost no tension, despite the fact of all the things that are happening, which is so weird.
00:50:26
Speaker
so I could see people being bored by this pretty easily. I remember at the time I liked it because I felt like it was from the perspective of the outsider of the action, which is what was interesting about the movie. But that's also what is disinteresting about the movie because it's like, you know how they're fighting these guys. Well, our main character kind of isn't right now.
00:50:45
Speaker
And it's just like, oh, that's not as exciting as watching the people fight the people. ah So it's it's a weird it's a weird way to focus the movie. So I'm going to give it a three for watchability.
00:50:57
Speaker
And I, well, I did use the word weird. I would say this is not that weird. Uh, this is like a half star. or one I'm going to say one, just cause it's like with all the translation and everything, it's ah not quite what you would expect out of most movies, but I don't think it's that particularly weird.
00:51:16
Speaker
Fair enough. How about you, Alice? Where did you end up in terms of watchability and weirdness? All right. Well, I was worried watching this ah for for the podcast because I was wondering if it wouldn't hold up at all.
00:51:29
Speaker
Because sometimes you watch something you haven't watched in like 10 years and it's like really, really bad. And it's not. It's good. I enjoyed myself watching it. I agree that it has some real pacing and plotting problems. Like I found myself thinking, and I never do this. Even when I'm like writing, I don't think about like how a story is supposed to have like rising action and then a conclusion. And I was like, this movie just goes up and down, up and down, up and down And there's no like continuous like problem being solved.
00:52:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I almost feel like if they had cut out one of the battles, like if they cut out the fireworm battle and you went from the first attack to the cave to the last attack, I think that would have made more like been more satisfying as like a plot.
00:52:18
Speaker
yeah But then, of course, you wouldn't have the fireworm. And I do like the fireworm. So. yeah No, cut out that first battle. maybe Yeah, maybe that. Or make the first battle happen on the way up and be like, we found one of these guys.
00:52:32
Speaker
What's that? That's what we're fighting. Yeah. But yes, so my my watchability, this is a four for me, because even with all of its obvious problems, it is still something that if I'm sitting and it's on the TV, I can sit and watch it. And granted, because it does have these like long stretches where not very much is happening, you don't have to pay your full attention to watch dark pee dark scenes of people going through a cave, but
00:53:04
Speaker
It does have enough, you know, lovely British Columbia scenery. yeah Sword fights, axe fights, people shooting arrows. I like all that.
00:53:15
Speaker
um And I agree. it's not it's very much trying to be a mainstream action historical movie. So it it isn't very weird. So I would also say like one one weird.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, fair enough. I landed in about the same range as you guys. I gave it a three and a half in terms of watchability. I think there is ah lots of action, though it takes a little while to get to the action. like When I was watching through it today just to look for some scenes to cut into the trailer, it you know ah took about a half an hour before we get to that first fight scene.
00:53:49
Speaker
ah But the action that is there is cool. There is lots of cool history stuff in there. ah You know, it's a cool setting. You know, there are lots of just sort of little treasures and little things to like.
00:54:03
Speaker
But I think...
00:54:06
Speaker
There's just it doesn't come together. You know what I mean? Because it doesn't have a solid story. It doesn't have anything that you really. Well, part of it is. Yeah. What I think was weird about it. gave it a one and a half in terms of weird in that the main character of the movie is not the hero of the story. Yeah.
00:54:25
Speaker
Yeah. The main character the movie barely even interacts with the hero of the story. Yep. Like every now and then you would cut to a shot of Beowulf and be like, oh, hey, hey, it's Beowulf.
Film Crew Roles Game
00:54:36
Speaker
What's he up to? And you'd be back to Ibn being like, I'm a fish out of water. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I don't understand why they're rubbing urine on my face, which did happen in the film. That's also weird that that did happen. Yes. it's It's old remedies, you know.
00:54:53
Speaker
Yeah. It was a different time. root Nowadays, they're trying to ban boiled down cow urine for treating my scratches.
00:55:04
Speaker
That's right. Thank God we got RFK up in the mix. You guys want to talk about ah my segment? You ready to move on to the next part of the show? Absolutely. All right. We're going to be talking about a trend in film.
00:55:18
Speaker
This is exciting.
00:55:36
Speaker
All right. So we are going to talking about
00:56:00
Speaker
right so we're going to be talking about The trend in film of American movies with Muslim main characters. Hmm. How many American movies can you name where the main character is Muslim? Top of your head.
00:56:16
Speaker
Aladdin.
00:56:20
Speaker
Well. Um, Robin Hood, Prince of the, that's not a main character. No, it has to be the lead. This is a tough question. This is very. I was able to come up with five.
00:56:30
Speaker
Wow. And that's after doing research. Okay. Malcolm X. Okay. Ali. Okay. Muhammad Ali.
00:56:42
Speaker
And then I've got three that were American foreign co-productions. you got Persepolis, the animated adaptation of the comic. yeah. yeah That's good. And The Message, starring Anthony Quinn, and Lion of the Desert, also starring Anthony Quinn. Both came out in late early 80s. Okay.
00:57:03
Speaker
okay And that's sort of it near as I can tell.
00:57:10
Speaker
Now, The 13th Warrior has gained a small cult following amongst American Muslims for being literally the only American action movie ever made with an explicitly Muslim protagonist, or even in an implicitly Muslim protagonist.
00:57:26
Speaker
Wow. Wow. Which is is much to consider. That is, yeah, that's kind of sad. Yeah. When I read that, I was like, wait a second.
00:57:38
Speaker
That is true, isn't ah Now, instead, explicitly Muslim characters are more likely to be portrayed as fanatical villains, allies to the real good guy, or victims of some sort of horrible thing that's happening.
00:57:57
Speaker
Now, I imagine the 13th Warrior's massive financial failure did not do much to convince the powers that be to change the state of affairs, unfortunately. up But I'll confess it's something that I never thought about until I started researching this episode.
00:58:12
Speaker
ah Still, I think the next time I hear about an American movie with a Muslim protagonist, I i will try to support it, maybe. Yeah. At this rate, there should be one, hopefully by the year 2034. That's wild, though.
00:58:25
Speaker
that's wild though That is. Yeah. I never thought about it. i um Yeah. Yeah. I hadn't either. And it's also very strange that this is that movie.
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I mean? But I mean, when he goes to teach ah ah Beowulf how to write and he
Closing Segments and Next Episode Preview
00:58:45
Speaker
the phrase that he writes is there is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet.
00:58:50
Speaker
yeah And, you know, we see him take off his shoes and kneel and pray towards Mecca at the end. There's also that funny moment where he's just like, I can't drink fermented wheat or I forget what he said. Great. He says, don't know not fermented grape or wheat. And then Herger's like, it's honey. And yeah and he's like, okay.
00:59:17
Speaker
I've had a long day. it He had had a very bad day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, nothing like a little mead to to calm you down. Yeah, I was definitely just like, God, I'd love some mead right now.
00:59:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:32
Speaker
Well, with that, you guys ready to play a game? Yes. All right, because you know what? There are lot of different jobs if you want to work in film. That's game. This is an extra long bumper. This is an extra long bumper.
01:00:00
Speaker
We show up at the film set. Running from the mob. I'll take whatever I can get. There's so many kind of jobs.
01:00:14
Speaker
A key grip. A PA. I'll do it. If it pays. A best boy. Makeup. I tell you folks, that's what's up.
01:00:28
Speaker
There's a lot of different jobs if you want to work and fail.
01:00:35
Speaker
There's a lot of different jobs if you want to work and fail.
01:00:49
Speaker
Quality bumper. Thank you. Thank you. and I appreciate that. Well, Like the song says, there are a lot of different jobs where you want to work in film. And I've written a quiz about them.
01:01:01
Speaker
What I'm going to do is I'm going to read you a description of a position on the crew and their title. And then I will read you three names of crew members. And I want you to tell me which person had that position.
01:01:16
Speaker
This is definitely a guessing game. Do not try and think it out. And this only vibes. Yes. so With your gut. 100%. This is to test if you are psychic.
01:01:29
Speaker
So ah it's a buzz in game. You'll buzz in by saying your own name and ah your opponent will have the chance to steal. Everybody ready? yeah. All right. Question number one. Hands on buzzers.
01:01:43
Speaker
You can't expect your entire cast to have long, flowing Viking hair just naturally. Somebody's going to have to make some wigs. And that somebody is the wig maker.
01:01:55
Speaker
Was the wig maker Rita Chicozzi, Stacy Butterworth, or Yvonne Boasmeyer Phillips? Ooh, Greg.
01:02:06
Speaker
Greg? What was the first one you said again? Rita Chicozzi. Rita Chicozzi.
01:02:14
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. It wasn't Rita Chacose. Alice, do you have a guess? Yvonne. Yvonne Boismeyer Phillips? Yvonne Boismeyer Phillips. No, I'm sorry. It was Stacy Butterworth.
01:02:29
Speaker
That's the fakest sounding name. All the names are real. ah Okay. That's important to know. I feel like all the names and credits seem so fake to me. I'm always just like, 90% of these people, these are aliases. This is wild.
01:02:44
Speaker
No, 100% real. Question number two. Sometimes the assistant director needs an assistant director. And sometimes that assistant director needs an assistant director. It's the third assistant director.
01:02:57
Speaker
Was the third assistant director Dave Foots Footman? Michelle Foote? Or Suzanne Armstrong? God.
01:03:08
Speaker
Alice. Alice? Michelle Foote. No, I'm sorry. It wasn't Michelle Foote. Was it Dave Foote Footman?
01:03:19
Speaker
You are correct. It was Dave Foote Footman. Yes. When in doubt, guessing the silliest name is a strong strategy in this game. I love it. Anytime they put a nickname in quotes, it's usually Scooter. It's Scooter often. There's a lot of Scooters. yeah I don't know why, but God bless all you Scooters out there.
01:03:39
Speaker
They're the backbone of the film industry. Question number three. Sure, the carpenters get a lot done in advance, but you'll want to have a carpenter on set during filming for all your on-the-fly carpentry needs.
01:03:53
Speaker
and It's the standby carpenter.
01:03:57
Speaker
Was that Philip Lunt, Jakob Durkhoff, or Glenn Herlihy? Alice.
01:04:08
Speaker
Alice? Jakob Dirkhoff.
01:04:12
Speaker
oh correct but was What was Glenn's last name? Herlihy? Glenn Herlihy. You're correct. Yes. It's a great last name.
01:04:24
Speaker
It is. And if I pronounce anybody's last name wrong when I'm reading these, screw you, go to hell.
01:04:33
Speaker
Question number four. Somebody has to be in charge of the camels if your movie has camels in it. It's true. Yes. It's the animal trainer.
01:04:44
Speaker
Camels. Was that Gene Walker, Wayne Baker, or Dave Leder? Greg. Greg?
01:04:55
Speaker
Wayne Baker.
01:04:57
Speaker
and I'm sorry, it wasn't Wayne Baker. ah Dave Leder. Gene Walker was training those camels.
01:05:11
Speaker
Question number five. We all know that the first unit is going to need someone to operate the dolly. But what about the second unit? They need a dolly grip second unit.
01:05:24
Speaker
Was the dolly grip second unit Todd Halagi, David Gribble, or Pepe Hubert? Alice. Alice?
01:05:35
Speaker
I don't care if this is true. It's Pepe Hubert. Correct. It was Pepe Hubert.
01:05:42
Speaker
Good work. She's learning, Greg. Yep. She's seeing through to the heart of the cards. That's right. There is no heart. There's just cards. Yeah.
01:05:53
Speaker
Question number six.
01:05:57
Speaker
The Space Cam was a camera mount that involved a series of gyroscopes mounted at the end of a crane. Somebody had to operate it, and somebody else had to help them do it.
01:06:08
Speaker
It's the Assistant Camera Space Cam. Was Assistant Camera Space Cam Attila Luca, Chris Bangma, or Samuel Buddy Fries?
01:06:21
Speaker
Ooh. Great. Alice. Greg. Chris Bangma. You're correct. you know Do you know what Mr. Fries did?
01:06:34
Speaker
I can't recall, but Buddy was not in quotes. Buddy was, I think, actually his middle name. Interesting. Wow. All right. Question number seven. While a composer might write the score, they'll need someone to take their ideas and realize it as fully formed orchestral music.
01:06:53
Speaker
It's the orchestrator. Was the orchestrator Rachel Bolt, Alexander Courage, or Dennis Brock? Alice.
01:07:04
Speaker
Alice? Alexander Courage. You're correct. Fortune favors the bold, or should I say the courageous. Question number eight.
01:07:17
Speaker
Foley artists make bespoke sound effects to sync up with the film, but someone needs to edit those sound effects. It's the Foley editor. Was that Frank Smathers, Bo Borders, or Butch Wolf?
01:07:34
Speaker
Alice. Alice? Butch Wolf. You're correct. It's all tied up with one question to go. Oh, my goodness. Oh, boy. It's all waiting on this. God, you couldn't write a more exciting, a lot of different jobs if you want to work in film.
01:07:51
Speaker
This is one for the ages, listeners. Tell your friends.
01:07:57
Speaker
You're going be telling your grandkids about this question. Number nine, if you're going to get bows and arrows from somebody, maybe he can give you a few pointers too, while he's dropping them off. It's the archery supplier slash consultant.
01:08:11
Speaker
m Was that Steven Ralph's Gordon July or silver Butler, Greg, Greg Gordon July.
01:08:25
Speaker
God, I wish it was scored in July. I'm sorry. It's so good. el Can you steal a silver Butler?
01:08:33
Speaker
oh it was Steven Ralph's. Oh my God. It ended in a tie. I wish I had written a tiebreaker. I'm sorry, everybody. hey I can do one. No, I'm going to pull the IMDB folks. I'm going to edit around this.
01:08:47
Speaker
We are going to have a tiebreaker.
01:08:53
Speaker
IMDB. Don't sign in. and You don't need to do that. 13th warrior. You should get the app. I refuse to get it. I mean, the app probably would really zip through this.
01:09:09
Speaker
All right. All cast and crew.
01:09:14
Speaker
All right. I want you to tell me who was the assistant production manager. Okay. Was it Stuart Bethune, Penny Gibbs, or Casey Grant?
01:09:29
Speaker
Alice. Alice. Penny Gibbs. Alice is correct. You take the tiebreaker.
01:09:38
Speaker
Hard fought. Congratulations. i will I will take this victory with me to the grave like a burning Viking ship. That's right.
01:09:50
Speaker
Rightly so. Uh-oh. It's the Batty Awards.
01:10:01
Speaker
Now you're missing a river. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:10:11
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:10:17
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees.
01:10:24
Speaker
That's right. Congratulations to all our nominees. Congratulations to you listeners. You made it to the Batty Awards. Now, ah who wants to give out their Batty Award first? I'll go. Okay. Alice.
01:10:38
Speaker
So i'm going I'm going to give my award for the least intrusive ah female quote-unquote love interest to the nameless blonde lady who had the boiled down cart cow urine, who only existed in like two and a half scenes to...
01:10:58
Speaker
ah complain, put cow urine on Antonio Banderas' face, and then go s screw him in the hayloft or something. Which, extremely realistic. If you were a random Viking lady and Antonio Banderas wandered in, you would figure out what you needed to do to lock that down.
01:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. yeah That's fair. She just got there first, and kudos to her. Yeah. How about you, Greg? Do you have a batty award? So I do. There's a series of put-downs in this that was my favorite, not for the put-down themselves specifically, but more so for at least the last one, but the whole group generally, how much exposition it is doing.
01:11:40
Speaker
So they're sitting at the table and like the the shitty son is just like, well, you think you're such a warrior? You've never fought one of these things. And that's like, all right, sure. And then Beowulf is just like,
01:11:54
Speaker
Sure, but I haven't heard any of your exploits except for you, you know, poisoning your brothers. And then he gets really pissed. And then his dad says, you sit down and be silent. These are guests at what is still my table.
01:12:08
Speaker
e And I was just like, yeah, all right. So we have the whole picture of the sun right there. The whole thing wrapped up right there. And then, of course, it doesn't really go anywhere and nothing happens. It doesn't matter, but it is a good scene.
01:12:20
Speaker
And it's a lot of exposition. Like, it's one of my favorite things in movies when it's just like, we're going to put on a scene that's like kind of fun, but also is going to tell you a lot kind of on the sly.
01:12:32
Speaker
And it's just like, yeah, it's on the sly. Congrats. And I love king's delivery of that last line. These are guests, what is still my table?
01:12:46
Speaker
He really put some stank on tape. It's so good. It's extremely enjoyable. ah I'm giving out my baddie award to best Venus.
01:12:57
Speaker
And that's the Venus of Willendorf. The little idol that ah Antonio Banderas finds is clearly inspired by the proportion of Venus of Willendorf. And then later on in the cave, they find like a 12 foot tall Venus of Willendorf carved from the living rock.
01:13:17
Speaker
And listeners, if you look like the Venus of Willendorf, call me.
01:13:25
Speaker
Alice, thank you so much for coming this week. Thank you for bringing us 13th Warrior. Thank you for having me back. I had a great time watching the movie again and a great time talking about it. And yeah, it was wonderful.
01:13:39
Speaker
Thank you. Are you doing anything these days? Do you want people to follow you? do you have anything you want to plug? I don't really have anything to plug these days. If indeed I ever did, I'm on blue sky with my cat um at a Ninja Magpie, but honestly, i don't put like, I'm not a poster.
01:13:59
Speaker
Like talking to yeah people. I don't know, you know? Yeah, no, that's that. I do have pictures of my cat. So you're welcome to look at those. but do not reply.
01:14:15
Speaker
Listeners, you know well how, what I'm going to do. You know how, what, how, how, what, how, what I'm going to do.
01:14:22
Speaker
I'm going to plug the show. And I'm going to do that by begging you to give us those five stars. If not you, who? And I'm going to beg you to tell your best friend about the show, because if not you,
01:14:36
Speaker
who i beg you to post about us on your social media, because if not you, who people don't listen to us when we say the show is good. Think about it.
01:14:48
Speaker
Use your brain for once in your life. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. Don't know. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I'm tired. It's been a weird day for me. Anyway, listeners, uh, anyway, find us on social media.
01:15:03
Speaker
Come back next week when we're going to have another fantastic returning guest. I'm very excited to have back. Mr. Al Bates will be coming back on the show and we're going to be talking about Megalopolis.
01:15:15
Speaker
wow but So you know you want to check that out. So until next week, ah be good. Goodbye.
01:15:29
Speaker
Goodbye. Bye. Bye.
01:15:45
Speaker
Bad Movie Podcast.