Transcript
Speaker: The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
Speaker: Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
Speaker: This is episode number two of Normal Goes a Long Way. I'm Jill Devine, and in episode one, I introduced you to Laura Fleetwood and Ryan Finlow. Laura is my spiritual mentor on my faith journey, and Ryan is my male millennial mentor on this faith journey.
Speaker: And in episode one, we talked about their backgrounds and why they are equipped to be the interviewers for this podcast. And my role as the host is to let you know what to expect with the podcast and what to expect with each episode and also how you can interact and get involved.
Speaker: The first person Laura is going to interview is me. We're going to talk about my faith journey, where it started and where it is today. So let's begin part one of the faith journey interview between Laura Fleetwood and myself, Jill Devine.
Speaker: Hello, this is Laura Fleetwood, and I am here in the studio with the Normal Goes a Long Way podcast host Jill Devine. This is weird. It's so exciting. It's so weird. It's so exciting. I'm excited because today we get to hear your story. And this podcast is your story. I mean, it's going to be the journey that you are on in real time, in real life, when it comes to your faith.
Speaker: I think it's important for the listeners to understand where you come from in regard to your faith. Your background is a radio host. We want to hear all about that. How are you feeling about being in the hot seat? Nervous, but I'm also excited because this
Speaker: is me and this is who I think a lot of people are and so I am hoping that I can help some others and have them understand like what you're thinking and feeling is probably exactly what I am thinking or feeling or have thought or felt. I don't know I'm nervous
Speaker: because I sometimes think like I have really dumb questions and I don't know if anybody else has those same questions but you never know. Like I guess it's if you're thinking it somebody else is thinking it. So I just want this like the podcast name I want this to be normalized. I want people to know they're not alone in this and this is a very
Speaker: heavy topic, but it's a good topic. I'm learning that. I'm like really, really learning that. Absolutely. And I think it's important to remember too that everybody's faith journey is different. There is no one size fits all. And I think when people hear your journey, um,
Speaker: they'll realize that theirs is different but there will be some similarities as well. I think too having you do the interview is I don't feel as nervous. Like I know that we have said that you are my spiritual mentor and I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about some of these things with other people.
Speaker: Yeah, you're probably going to get some tears. It's OK. It's OK. That's why we're here. It's real. All right. Well, let's dive in. Let's do it. I'm proud of you for doing this. And I want you to take us back to your earliest memories when it comes to God. When you were a child, what did you think about God? Who did you think he was?
Speaker: I am not the typical child in regard to kids that grew up in the church. I didn't grow up in the church. I didn't start attending church until I would guess somewhere around eight. I'm not really sure.
Speaker: My parents moved out to the, uh, a suburb of St. Louis called St. Peter's, uh, when I was three ish and my sister was eight were five years apart. And in the connecting subdivision of ours, there is a church that's still there. Uh, it's a different name now, but small tiny church.
Speaker: they sent my sister and me there. And to this day, I haven't really asked them why it was important for them to send us there and why they weren't there. And I realized
Speaker: a few years ago that that has bothered me. And I'll fast forward to that real fast because when my husband and I took a baptism class for our oldest daughter, so at our church we go through a baptism class to really kind of understand what baptism means, our roles in it as parents and
Speaker: I laugh because I am a crier and I think the individual who is teaching that class was like, whoa, I didn't expect these tears to come out. But it made me realize that sense of belonging and experiencing everything with your family really means a lot to me.
Speaker: So what did that look like? Your mom and dad would drop you off at the church and what would you do? Did you go to Sunday school? Did you go to church? What do you remember about going to that church without your parents there? I don't remember a ton. I do remember it was so odd that I think my sister taught Sunday school and I had to have been in high school.
Speaker: When they asked me to teach Sunday school, I'm like, what are you talking about? What do I do? They're like, there's tubs over there. You can keep the kids busy. Luckily, I never had to do it. I
Speaker: was baptized around the age of 10 or 11, my godparents, so my parents chose godparents from the congregation. They didn't know these individuals. Interesting. Yeah. And I will say for a while, my godparents
Speaker: They were heavily involved in me like over the summer. They would take me to the zoo. They would take me on outings. I would go over there for dinner. I should probably actually reach out to them and I don't even have their contact information. For a while we did chat snail mail. I kind of remember the baptism. I do remember going through confirmation and
Speaker: I remember distinctly that because I remember trying out for high school cheer and then finding out it was going into my freshman year. I think when my mom picked me up, she told me that they had called to say I made it. So I remember telling those people, I remember a
Speaker: sleepover or What do you call those like the the lock? Oh, yeah the lock -in. I remember doing one of those classic high school youth Yeah, it was not a big church at all. And I can't even tell you Any of the people that I don't know anybody's names. I don't remember any of that and I don't remember a lot of
Speaker: Did we just do Sunday school or did we go to church? I can tell you right now, I can see inside that building. I know exactly where everything is. So I think it's interesting that your parents obviously felt it was important for you and your sister to be part of the church. They weren't, for whatever reason, that's their own story.
Speaker: And you obviously had relationships with people from the church, like your godparents and your teachers. So what you remember is very relational. What do you remember about God, about learning about him, about him being part of your life at that time? I don't remember anything.
Speaker: That's the hard part. Like that's confusing to me. Was I just not into it? I mean, I feel like I was into it, but I don't, I wasn't impacted.
Speaker: I don't feel like I was impacted. Do you remember at that time of your life, having a prayer life or studying God's Word? Nope. Nothing like that. I have a precious moments Bible. Do you remember precious moments? I do. Okay. So my grandma used to collect those and she had a big curio cabinet and I got a precious moments Bible.
Speaker: I've had it all these years. So I recently pulled it out. I had it in my oldest daughter's room for maybe it was in one of my nightstand. I think it was in my nightstand drawer and I thought, I'm going to put this in her pajama drawer. I just feel like a Bible with a pajama drawer. I know this may sound crazy. It's comforting.
Speaker: That's, I don't know, it's just one of those things. And so I put it in there and then I think one day she asked me about it and I opened it up and I have my name written in there. I mean, I could obviously tell us from when I was a child, my name, my baptism birthday, which I believe was 87 or 88. And so something prompted me to either purchase that on my own when I was a kid or ask my mom too.
Speaker: So there was something there beyond confirmation and going into high school. I don't remember attending again. Okay. At all. And how about your family? Did you ever talk about God in your family? Did you pray before dinner or anything like that? No. No. It's weird and interesting at the same time. And I don't know why I haven't asked my parents about this.
Speaker: I don't know. That'll be an interesting conversation when you do. I think my dad has more roots in faith than my mom, but we didn't discuss it. We just didn't discuss it. So it sounds like it might be fair to say you knew about God, but you didn't necessarily know Him or Jesus in a personal way. Not at all.
Speaker: I think maybe it was heaven and hell. Maybe that was something I thought about a lot. If you don't do the right things, you're not going to heaven. You'll go to hell. Yeah, maybe that was it. Because I know my grandmother on my dad's side, I know that she was strong in her faith.
Speaker: She passed away when I was in seventh grade, but I do remember a little side story with her. I hated spending the night places when I was a kid, probably still to this day, and her house was the only house that I liked to spend the night at. And I remember going one time, because she lived in St. Genevieve, and she took me to her church, and I just thought I was the coolest little kid because she was showing me off and taking me to the,
Speaker: the drug store and getting me stuff. But I remember, yeah, she had faith. I don't know. It's just, it's very confusing to me. And that was a Catholic raised family. So my dad and his siblings and my grandma and my grandpa. Okay, that's good to know. What kind of church did you go to when you were a kid? It was a Lutheran church. Okay. I don't really think I knew what that meant. I just thought it was just
Speaker: That's just church. So how did you get where you are now? Take us through the journey of college, career, family, and now you're working at a church and you're hosting this podcast about your very personal journey of learning more about faith and what that means in your life.
Speaker: How did you go from a kid who didn't really talk to God or think much about God to now hosting a podcast all about God? Isn't it weird? I find it fascinating and interesting and also like so hopeful and exciting because we don't know where this journey is going to take you. Right. We don't. We're on it with you. I don't know. It's,
Speaker: I try to pinpoint things. I do not remember. I mean, I'm sure God was in the back of my mind or heaven was in the back of my mind all along, but I didn't go to church. I'm sure through high school and college, maybe just, you know, here and there.
Speaker: I don't know, it was not a part of my life. I think a lot of people, like when people say, can you please say prayers for this or that? I mean, I probably did, but I don't think I probably understood. And I still think a lot of people don't understand really prayers. And I'm still learning that, but I'm a little bit more intentional. I know that there were certain people
Speaker: along the way that helped answer some of my faith questions. I'm trying to figure out even now when that all started. I'm going to say mid 20s.
Speaker: Okay. There was one friend of mine and she, her, her faith was, it is strong. Like I remember her saying to me one time, Oh my gosh, I cannot wait for heaven. And I said, but that means you're going to die. And she said, that's okay.
Speaker: And maybe I should add that death is not something that I like to talk about. I don't know why. It's a huge, I don't want to say huge fear. It's a fear of mine. It's an anxiety. I always thought, and maybe a little to this day, but not as much. If you had accepted God and heaven, you were okay with dying. Like the minute that you were like,
Speaker: I get you God. I'm excited for you. I'm ready for this. Then it was time for you to die. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. Does that kind of like give you a pit in your stomach a little bit? So it's kind of like if you accept Jesus into your life, then it's okay for you to go anytime. Yes. What are the tears for? Because I think about, I don't want to leave my girls.
Speaker: and people talk about how it's so glorious in heaven and I'm sure it is, but they're going to be sad. Well, I hope they're sad. It's a hard truth to understand that all we know here on earth is like just the first chapter of our eternal life because what you're experiencing now is what you know, right? Yeah. I haven't accepted that yet, I guess.
Speaker: I think that's totally normal and natural. I remember talking to a pastor and that's part of the faith journey too, but I remember him. I think I brought this up. I said,
Speaker: how is it okay I mean people are sad nobody wants their loved one to die I mean we know it's gonna happen but like it's done it's done and he was like there's no sadness in heaven and I said okay so are you telling me that I
Speaker: can't look over individuals who are at my wake or my celebration or whatever it is and I'm not going to see them crying because there's no sadness in heaven. So then that means I'm not going to see them sad on earth. And he was like, well, what I interpreted him saying was no. And then I was like, well, I mean, at that time I was in my twenties. I didn't have kids. I was like, now I'm thinking,
Speaker: Okay, so I'm never going to see my girl sad again. So it's just confusing to me that part. Yeah, I remember on my
Speaker: the podcast that I host talking to a gentleman, his name is Brandon and his wife, they're strong Christians. Like she was, and I would have never known this if I wasn't on this faith journey. She was a true disciple. And I mean, that's a terminology that we're going to learn, but she fought breast cancer and was just
Speaker: on her death bed and she was talking to people about Jesus and their faith. And I had told them they have three kids, young kids. And I said, I don't understand how like she was okay. Obviously she's not okay with saying goodbye, but he was like,
Speaker: She was ready. She was ready. And I'm like, no. And I cried throughout like the whole episode because I said, how can you be ready? How can you look at your three kids and be like, okay, God, this is okay. I'm okay with you doing this. And maybe this is another topic to talk about, but it just, the death thing I think has been a barrier. Okay.
Speaker: Well, that's definitely something that we should explore then in the podcast because eternal life is a huge part of the Christian faith. Our faith in this side of heaven is also an important part and that's worth exploring. What does faith look like as a living human and what does our faith mean for us after we leave this earth and step into heaven?
Speaker: Those are weighty questions as far as what is heaven like? What will we know or see in heaven? And we don't really know. The Bible gives us some glimpses, but mourning is such a huge part of being a human, mourning those that we lose. And just because we're Christians doesn't make that grief any less, I don't think.
Speaker: but it does give us hope that it's not the end. This is my perspective because you are, I'm just, I'm trying to comfort you because you're sad. You're sad thinking about the time when your time comes leaving. And it sounds like you've heard that there will be no sadness in heaven, but gosh, our loved ones are here.
Speaker: on earth. Anyone listening, I just want to say, just because you're a Christian does not make your grief of losing a loved one any less than somebody who doesn't have faith. That grief is grief. You also, though, have the hope that you will be with them again. And that's the difference.
Speaker: Yeah, that's definitely a topic that we need to explore deeper. I'm right down right here. Death in heaven. Yeah, because that's you made me think like, it's okay to be fully comfortable in your faith.
Speaker: and still not be okay with death. Absolutely. Because that's not how I kind of think. And I'd like to ask a pastor about that too. That would be good because they can explain how God, when he created us, did not create death. That was not part of the original plan. And that's why it hurts so much. So we'll get into that for sure.
Speaker: Well, back to the... Back to the story. Yes. Oh, is that what we were talking about? Your friend, your faithful friend. Yeah. When she was like, oh, I can't, you know, I can't wait. And I'm like, what?
Speaker: But she really did pull it out of me to go to church and try new things. And I didn't ask a ton of questions, but we went to a couple of different churches. I remember going to one that was pretty contemporary. And one of my favorite bands is Coldplay.
Speaker: Oh, me too. I didn't know that. Love Coldplay. And we went to this church and I think my great uncle was not doing well too. There was something that was playing into that.
Speaker: We went to church and they were playing a Coldplay song on stage. And after they got done, it was the opening and they said, if you're new here and you're wondering, why are they playing Coldplay or they can't be Christians because they're playing Coldplay or this isn't a church because they're playing Coldplay. They made some sort of statement like it doesn't matter.
Speaker: It's the universal like language. And of course I was like, yes, because of my background in radio. And then there was something that was speaking to me too. Again, it was something with my great uncle and I thought, wow. And this was her home church, maybe not her home church, but definitely a church that she would go to and she would go to on Saturday nights. So then we would make,
Speaker: some dates to go to church on Saturday nights and then have some dinner afterwards. And it wasn't regular, but it was, it was introducing it to me. I remember trying out churches on my own and man, how brave was that? Like for me to do that. And like some of them were small. So you're in your twenties now. Yeah. Or in early thirties. So in, and some were small and it was like,
Speaker: Oh, they definitely knew I was a newbie, but clearly
Speaker: none of those stuck. Something just wasn't there. It's something just, it wasn't right or I don't know. Do you remember what your motivation was for trying out churches? I'm just curious. Um, there had to be something in you that was like stirring up this desire, this motivation to find a church home. I'm just curious what that was. I wanted to
Speaker: grow my faith. That was it. I wanted to grow my faith and I knew in order to do that for me, I needed to find a church. So my mom's mom, my grandma, very big into her faith. And I remember turning to her a lot.
Speaker: that we started connecting more on that level. Like it was a big joke in our family. Like my sister would be like, oh yeah, you're just trying to butter up grandma. You're getting her through the faith side. I was like, whatever works. And we would just joke around about it. But so it would start turning to her and asking her questions whenever. And she lives in Illinois. So it was like an hour away from us, but still easy to go and see her.
Speaker: And when I mentioned a little bit ago about that pastor about talking about the sadness, so she set up
Speaker: a lunch with him and me and her and my grandpa. During this time, I was working for a radio station and the individual I was working with, it was weird because he was Catholic, but he was also questioning a lot of things and not even questioning them, making statements.
Speaker: He was definitely getting into my ear, not on purpose, but I felt like I was kind of a follower and I looked up to him and I was like, oh, I, you know, I want to listen to what you have to say. Very impressionable. Like, I mean, I am, I always joke that maybe I'm naive, but I just feel like it's one of those where I just kind of like think.
Speaker: Oh, can't we all just get along? You know, that's just kind of how I am. So when you started saying these things, I was like, why have questions? Well, we had a listener. This is so random. I read an email from her the other day. We had a listener that somehow we connected and she actually went to the same church as my grandma.
Speaker: And she and I started talking and I need to reach find her now that I think about it. I'm writing down her name. I need to find her. And so she's a listener of your show, of your radio show. Yes. Happens to go to the same church as your grandma and you connect. And we connect. And I can't really remember. And so this, I was probably like 32 ish.
Speaker: This was around 2008, I think. Yeah, it was like 2008 -ish. And I can't even remember how it got brought up, but I need to reread that email. It is saved in a Bible that my grandma gave me, but she was somehow
Speaker: we started talking about God. So one day I said, hey grandma, can I come to your church with you? And so I had told this listener I was gonna go, it was the first time we were gonna meet. It wasn't a great church for, for someone who's not a regular worshipper, I saw some people that apparently I guess it would be the Holy Spirit that was getting in them. And I just saw some things that I'm like,
Speaker: What is happening around me? The spirit was moving. That's where I didn't understand. And like one lady was talking about the Holy Spirit. I don't know if this is right, like a sexual way. And I was like, what is happening? Like, Grandma, what church are you bringing me to? But anyway, it was nice to experience that with her. And it was nice to meet this listener. And this listener was just so,
Speaker: welcoming and calming and that was one what I wanted to refer to her. But back to the story with the pastor. I had all these questions from this guy that I was working with.
Speaker: Also, there was a time where I was the single one forever. And I had a friend that wanted me, wanted to set me up with a friend of hers who happened to be black. And I was like, Oh, I don't think I, in my head, I don't think I can date a black man because I think it's against my religion, even though I'm not really practicing, but I think it would upset my grandma.
Speaker: and my family and God. Wow. Where did I get that? I don't know because I would have never thought that.
Speaker: So that's part of this faith journey too, is learning these things that were in the back of my mind. And I'm not saying any one person said that, I don't know, I don't know. And I think that this is part of Christianity with people and beliefs. Like, you do this, you're bad, you're going to hell. So somehow I thought that. My grandma sets up this lunch and we are talking about all kinds of things. I can't even remember some of the stuff because I remember the guy at work.
Speaker: He brought something up about Noah's ark and questioning that and I brought it to the pastor's attention and then I brought up the heaven and the sadness and then I said, I also have another question for you. And he said, okay. And I said, you know, is it against
Speaker: religion or the Bible to date someone that's not the same race as you and he was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. I think it was so important the whole room heard what that pastor was telling me and talking about in the Bible. This misconception that I had about
Speaker: interracial relationships because I didn't feel that way then, I don't feel that way now, but something was telling me it was making me doubt and I didn't know why, but it had just kept going back to religion. So I'm so glad that the pastor kind of looked at me like, no, I mean, no. And again,
Speaker: not letting people get inside my head. Like this is one reason why I'm doing this. I don't want the things that are in my head or the things that I don't know are true. Like they always say, follow your gut. I want what's in my gut to, I guess, be validated. Well, thank you for asking that question because that is not something that Christianity teaches that interracial relationships are not okay.
Speaker: so far from it. So then I just started thinking of these things and saying, okay, if you're really doing this, you have to do it for yourself. So I did feel kind of isolated as far as me trying to do things. Again, I don't have a significant other at this time. I'm just trying to do things on my own. I'm trying to figure it out. What do I do?
Speaker: And then I meet a woman that is a dear friend of mine at my previous radio job, very strong Christian. She and her husband recently just planted a church. I didn't even know what that term was. Even when I first met her, I didn't know if you start a church, you plant it. And it's kind of weird now. This is the first time I've ever thought about it, that planting a church is a weird
Speaker: analogy. Do you want to explain like, what that means? Or? Well, I don't know the origin of that metaphor. But I might assume that it refers to when Jesus told the parable of the sower and the seeds and, you know, some seeds take root, some are
Speaker: caught in the weeds and that planting a church is similar in that we don't control the outcome. We can just share the word. We can just plant the seeds, plant the church. That's what I thought. That would be what I assume, but I never thought about it. And the only reason why I know I'll plant the seeds is because of my current job in ministry with community groups. And that's the only, so that's what I thought. I was like, yeah, I wonder if that's it. I'll have to look that up. We have to ask somebody that question. I'm right in a town.
Speaker: Yeah, so she and I would have conversations and I would just kind of talk to her about, it wasn't necessarily deep questions, it would just be more of clarification on certain things. Like, well, what did it mean when Mary did this? Or I don't know, it was stuff like that.
Speaker: She was helpful for dissecting maybe some stuff. Still at this point, I'm not reading the Bible or anything like that. We probably met around 2012 -ish. Now, I met my husband in 2010. His parents, very strong Christians, his mom worked for a church. They definitely appreciated that I had an interest and that I kind of
Speaker: got my husband Brian back involved. Like we would go to their church and then we would just go wherever with their church, but we still hadn't found our own home church. But his mom was very, very good at making sure prayers were happening, introducing Jesus to me. And that was good. So it pushed me more to like, okay,
Speaker: I need to find a home and I still kept shopping around. And then one of my best friends, she was a member at a Lutheran church and she said, Oh, you should check it out. And so I went in 2016 and now I'm working for that church. I love how God works.
Speaker: So two things stand out for me listening to your story. The first is that they're kept being these people.
Speaker: along the way that weren't giving you all the answers, but they kept you moving forward on the journey. Yeah. That's fascinating that God kept putting people in place that just at the right time, it kept you wondering and kept you intrigued and kept you searching.
Speaker: Playing off of that there were two other people at the radio station and this was in the last couple years that I Knew that they were strong Christians, too And I would go to them and ask them questions and now when you say that
Speaker: I'm thinking these things like I did not know what a Gentile was. And it's very confusing. Like that is a non -Jewish person, correct? Correct, yes. And then I remember, and so again, this goes back to what is it society? Is it the media? Who is it? But I asked one of the guys and I think he was kind of like, is this a joke at first? And then he really was helpful. And it made me feel better is like, okay,
Speaker: Does it matter if you're like, can you go to heaven even if you decide on cremation or you donate your body? And that's, I mean, you can only imagine we're like in the kitchen of our building. He goes, no, I, I, it doesn't matter, Jill. And I said, really? Again, here I am very impressionable. He's like, no, I don't think it matters what you choose to do with your body.
Speaker: And that was just like a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders. Like what? Why?
Speaker: Yeah. So that's the other thing that stood out to me. Number one, the people that God, and it was God, putting those people in place. And second, these questions that you kept having about very practical doubts or practical issues in your life that had to do with faith. And you asked the questions. You asked people about them.
Speaker: And I just want to point out how rare I think that is. So I'm really proud of you because it feels like that's what kept propelling you forward. You were curious about these things, you know, for some reason you had in your mind that your family wouldn't approve of you dating a black man. And you asked a pastor about it.
Speaker: You had these fears about death and dying. You had fears about if it made a difference, if you were cremated, and you asked the question to people that you knew were Christians. And I think that's amazing. I wish more people would do that. But a part of me also is a little scared about that, because what if those people had answered incorrectly?
Speaker: Like, because there are pastors who may not approve of an interracial marriage. I can't believe that in this day and age. And maybe there aren't anymore, but there certainly were at one point in time the damage that that could have done. Or what if your friend had said, oh my gosh, no, you have to be buried in a, you know, in a casket for you to be raised on the final day or something like that. You know, like, so that's why I think this podcast is so important.
Speaker: because we're going to ask those practical questions and we're going to get the real answers. And so you've in a way, you've been doing this podcast already in your life. Like you've already been asking the normal questions. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker: It's just another God thing that he's like, okay, we're gonna make a way for you to be vulnerable and keep asking these questions in a public platform where now everybody can take their journey with you and hear the answers. And by the way, some of these interviews we do,
Speaker: we're probably going to get different answers and different perspectives. And I want to point that out because we are humans and God is God. And we only can understand like a tiny fraction of who He is on this side of heaven. And that's part of the wrestling that comes with Christianity is that
Speaker: in some circumstances, in many circumstances, like we don't know. The Bible does not tell us everything. And that's, for me, part of the fascination of the Christian faith is that it's a constant wrestling. And in the end, it comes down to trust, that regardless, you know, we trust in the core things.
Speaker: So I'm excited about our first series that's going to be all about the basics of Christianity. Yeah, it's going to be huge and helpful in understanding certain things like the basics, but that's going to lay the foundation. And I have lots of questions. That's awesome. I mean, I've been a Christian my whole life and I have lots of questions. And that's good to know, too.
Speaker: to know that you've had it a part of your life. And that's another fascinating thing for me that I want to learn more about. But for those individuals who it was from the day they were born until now, I am super, super fascinated about that. And one of the things, too, that
Speaker: I never thought that this would ever come out of my mouth like my husband and I considering private school for our children. A private Christian school. Yes.
Speaker: polarizing topic that I never, I can't believe it. And maybe for you, Laura, it's not as polarizing because that's what you know. I don't know. It is something that has been on my heart. It's getting better, but there's lots of questions that I have.
Speaker: Lots of questions. Okay, I'm writing that down too. One thing that I do want to point out, one of the main things that I want from this podcast is I want people to know you can be a normal person and be a Christian. And I don't think that we can hit home on that enough. Just like the intro says,
Speaker: I like tequila. I sin. I do things wrong. That's sinning. That's part of the process. Like, I think sometimes people and maybe it's just me that you think of a Christian, a true Christian, that one really does get it. Every single
Speaker: thought every single second, every single hour, it's nothing but God, which I mean, that's not a bad thing, but it's not like that. Just because I might cuss, which I do,
Speaker: I can still be a Christian. Yes, absolutely. So that's part of this as well. Besides learning all the different things and asking the questions and we are going to get into some deep, heavy stuff, everyday life, you can be a Christian.
Speaker: Yes, and all of us struggle with all the things. Christians aren't exempt from any struggle that anybody else may have. This was such an honest, raw conversation. Thank you for letting us just learn more about your story and being honest about your faith journey, where you've been. And in the next episode, we're going to talk more about where you are now.
Speaker: This crazy, crazy experience that God has placed you now to work at a church to go from being a radio host for 20 years, a well -known radio host, to now working in the church. That's what the next episode's going to be about. So can't wait to learn more about that and continue the conversation.
Speaker: In our next episode, we're going to wrap up with my faith journey. We will focus on where I am now, but we'll also talk about my career as a radio host and my career in ministry and how they kind of work together. Here's a little preview of that.
Speaker: What are some of your favorite memories or moments? Like if you could pick two moments from your radio career that stand out to you that the listeners might want to know. I got to meet Will
Speaker: Smith. Oh my gosh. He was awesome and kind. And I was doing morning. So it was early in the morning and he smelled really good. And he was just so great. So you interviewed him in person? Yes. Wow. Yeah. He came into the studio and he took pictures with us. He was like, this guy's a superstar. Like you don't get much. Yeah. Like that was one of my fondest memories. And it was just great.
