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TSP Ep 118 P1: Oscars Talk or The Shiny Golden Man
32 Plays9 months ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve discuss the Best Picture nominations, the new rules for qualifiers of the Oscars, and Tom gets powerful discussing a short story idea he has.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Speculation
00:00:00
Speaker
Yes, spillage equals wetness. Wetness often is a good thing, but not always. So, buddy, how are you doing? It's Friday night. Yeah, I'm doing okay. All right. Okay is okay by me. You ready to get this thing going? Yeah, let me just... Oops.
00:00:27
Speaker
What would I hit? This could be, it'll be interesting to see. This could be a very short episode or it could be very long. So I mean, I guess that's the only two options. That's true. I have a feeling this will be a long episode because there's a lot to talk about. There is and there isn't, but we'll see. Let's get ready to get kicked off. Yeah, there is something I was going to ask you and I completely forgot. Oh well.
Hosts' Stress and Procrastination
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome to Twin Shadows podcast podcast.
00:01:00
Speaker
I've only had a couple sips. Welcome to Twin Shout Us podcast. The podcast about film, filmmaking and filmmakers brought to you by your two greatest co-hosts and closeted lovers, Tom and Steve. Hey buddy, how's it going? It's going good, buddy.
00:01:20
Speaker
Well, I guess it's going good and it's not. We were talking about this earlier when we got here. Work's really coming down on us. So that's been rough. Yeah. Like I am so busy at work right now. But you know, I was thinking about it because I'm super busy at work. I'm super busy with home life. And then a lot of projects are coming up that I really have to dedicate a lot of time to. And
00:01:47
Speaker
You know, I'm a procrastinator, I've realized that. Jog at night, a 15 minute short is on year, probably on its seventh year now of post-production. Yeah, seven years, yeah. So, you know, there's a bit of a procrastination that I do commit, but you know, the one thing about procrastinators, as bad as we are, watch for bad, but
00:02:12
Speaker
you know, eventually you get pushed up against the wall and then you'll do like several all-nighters and get it done, right? Yeah. So I'm kind of feeling that positive stress of it where it's like, okay, no, I need to really stop fucking around and focus on the work and get it
Productivity and Deadlines in Film Projects
00:02:30
Speaker
done. And I'm trying to make it positive. So just within this past week, I've just really been focusing a little bit more and doing a little bit more around the house.
00:02:42
Speaker
And even with the projects, I haven't really gotten back on track with that, but at least with the podcast, our last week's podcast, you know, doing some of the editing for it. I didn't finish it. Unfortunately, I broke it up into two parts, but it's a super long one.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah. But, you know, just that getting back into that rhythm of that, of working on projects and then getting into a really good rhythm on working on different stuff within the house, different projects. And then at work, well, we have to be done within like two weeks before classes start with a lot of our
00:03:20
Speaker
intercession projects. So yeah, I'm really starting to, you know, I feel that fire burning my toes, so I'm really starting to move and get things done. So there's that positive element to it. I will say, at least into our defense, whenever we have a deadline, we will never really fuck that up. I think part of the problem is almost the openness
00:03:43
Speaker
Yes. And if like, because if we just like set hard goals on ourselves, normally we have always achieved those and that's how we did the kit to begin with. Yeah, writing the script with the post-production period and then filming. Yeah, it was just like, we're gonna give ourselves a couple months to do this and then a couple months to do that and then it was like, and we just rolled in to post and it was like, oh, we're dead.
00:04:08
Speaker
Well, also when we rolled into post, our thought process was, well, now we have all the time in the world. Yeah. And now we're taking all the time in the world. That's, yeah, that's the problem too. It's like, yeah, we're definitely, we've pushed like all of our good graces away from, in that aspect, I think. Yeah. But you know, like we did set a, I mean, maybe it wasn't that serious of a deadline.
00:04:32
Speaker
with having the rough cut done. And I'm saying it wasn't that serious because in my mind it was like, well, it's gonna take however long it's gonna take. Now I'm not worried about that. Cause every time we were working, we were making really good progress. And every time we would go over the edit, it just felt better and better. So it really, we were making gains and it didn't feel like we were just stirring the pot.
00:05:04
Speaker
you know, but we didn't make that deadline, but I still feel that huge pressure. It's like, okay, well now you didn't make that deadline. That was still your deadline. So now you're just behind a month now. So yeah, cause we should, we like, other than the break that we took, we would have been done last year, like with the edit, I think we would have been picture locked if we had just like kept that momentum going.
00:05:27
Speaker
And then it would have been just like this year would have been about like just interviewing the remaining posts crew and but I would also say in our defense we've always had and maybe this is a bad thing but we've always had good reasons.
Life Events and Project Timelines
00:05:42
Speaker
for when we took breaks, right? Like this break we took, obviously, for Sophia. But then, you know, Emma and Luke were born within that year, within this time span, right? Of post-production. Yeah, the year after we finished Dickhead, Luke was born. And then four years after that, Emma was born. And in between Luke and Emma was all the hectic thing with editors. And we went through a bunch of editors. Our editor drama.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, so it's never like it. We've never actually just.
00:06:13
Speaker
Not until, I think it was two years ago now, because we're in 2024, so it was 2022. I always go back to that cabin trip where- That was in 2022? Yeah. Wow. That feels like that was last summer. Yeah. That was two summers ago now. Oh, God. And that's where everything kind of culminated, I think, for where it was like, oh, no, we can just do this. Yeah.
Film Production: Budgets and Deadlines
00:06:40
Speaker
We just need to do this and we like made the most progress we've ever made and like, you know, you can't like rewrite history. So it's no point in speculating on what could have happened or would have happened or should have happened because what happened happened. But, you know, hopefully this film will speak for itself and.
00:06:59
Speaker
It'll definitely speak for something. I mean, I think it's definitely pretty good. And we're getting to a point, like you said, where we're going to start end up just stirring the pot soon. Yeah. Because we have gone back and looked at scenes and it's like, nope, I think we got it. Yeah. There's no major changes to be made. But that's also a good thing is what. It's very good. Is where we're really coming to that clear reality because
00:07:28
Speaker
I mean, a lot of the times we just got what we got. And it's like, well, yeah, I know what you're saying. It would be better if it were this way, but that way doesn't exist. All you have is the way that it is. And that's an easy pill to swallow, even though it's painful, but it's easy in the sense where there's no more avenues to take. If you're gonna go down this road, this is the route you have to take, or the best route to take, I should say. And that's a bit,
00:07:59
Speaker
comforting and are not comforting, but it's just easy to accept, easier to accept. Yeah, it is easier. And I think that's just part of just life as a filmmaker, like, because I think it also gives me a better appreciation for when I watch movies. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, when you see like a scene that's not really working or something, it's like, they probably wanted it to be better.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it's like, but you just can't always go back. And for the most part, realistically, you really can't go back unless you have a budget set aside for it. If we were paying everyone properly, we couldn't have probably done any of the reshoots or anything like that because that would have added thousands of dollars out of our own pockets. But also in that same avenue, that's not the word, my brain is mush, but in that same vein,
00:08:51
Speaker
I was watching this documentary on Heat and I was comparing it to the LA takedown or whatever it was, because Heat is basically just a retelling of Michael Mann's TV movie. Yes. That he did, like verbatim almost. Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
but one was shot with $10 million and was done in like a month. Verse one that took three months or a hundred plus days. And it was like a 40 million, 50 million, I don't know how ever million, but it was a big budget movie. And I mean, look at the difference between the two. I don't know if you've ever seen clips.
00:09:25
Speaker
I've never seen it, but I was reading about it because it's a fascinating story. Michael Mann has had a really interesting career where he makes some of the best movies ever and then he fucks up and goes back to TV and then he goes and then he's in TV for a bit, then he makes one of the best movies ever and then he fucks up and goes back to TV.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, and it's like he has had this very weird career, not that he makes bad TV, but like, you know, he came back and made a not Miami Vice.
00:10:00
Speaker
Not CSI or something like that. No, what was the TV show he made? Oh, fuck. See, I'm sorry. We're drinking J&B. J&B on the rocks. And we're tired. It's been a long, it's been a rough, it's been a long week. It feels like it's been a while since I've worked like five days in a row, like, because we've had the holidays. Oh, yeah. And then right after the holidays, there's a President's Day or Martin Luther King or whatever. Yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
And which we had often, I was like, so I just had like a bunch of, for short weeks and it was like. Still getting used to the grind. Yeah, it's, the full week is pretty brutal, I will say. But what I was gonna, why I was bringing that up is, you know, if we had the money, I think money does show in a film. Yes. When it has a proper budget. Well, also money just gets things done faster.
00:10:53
Speaker
When we pay our composer, it's not like you have six months to get this done. No, it's like we're going to pay you, you have eight weeks. We'd probably be a little more lenient because we're happy to be slow.
00:11:10
Speaker
But it's like, it's not like, oh, you have eight years to get the, the, the score done. No, you have like two months. Like, like we want, like, so that's what, when I say like things are going to really roll, right? Cause like the colorists, they're going to, you know, I think eight weeks is probably going to be like what we asked to have things done. Honestly, I don't know about that. And the only reason I say that is just because of the money.
00:11:32
Speaker
Yes, but I also, I think we have to be strict on a deadline or we run into Sean situations. Well, also, well, I'll backpedal with that, or not backpedal, but I'll say that I don't think we have to be as worried because we're gonna be working with people who make their living doing this. Yeah. And because of that, they can't hold onto a project for six months. They can't be working on your project for six months because they need to eat. So your project can only,
00:12:02
Speaker
be in their mind for like, okay, you're giving me this much money, I'll work on it for three months. Well, I think we had thought that with our editor. No, but they weren't. I know. Hopefully it's not the same situation. Yeah, they were like friends who were like, oh yeah, I could do that. And we were trying to, you know, obviously get a good deal on a good editor. And so we did one of the cheapest routes we could, and then we suffered for that. But I think the cost of the money
00:12:30
Speaker
I mean, how much were we willing to pay like 5,000? Was that how much it was? Yeah. So you're talking about 5,000 to edit an entire feature. That's really not a lot of money. It's not, but it's not it, but it also is. It isn't, isn't. For a film, it's not a lot of money. It depends on like your level, I think, because I think there will probably be people like that would jump at it if even if it was $1,000, like good editors or assistant editors, because I do think
00:12:59
Speaker
a professional editor should have a movie done in a couple weeks, right? And so to get $1,000 for, you know. You think that's how fast it takes to edit a movie? Absolutely. A couple weeks. Yes. No way. Yes. Working 40 hours a week?
00:13:15
Speaker
Like if you give yourself like that, right? Like it shouldn't take you more than that. I think it takes a couple months. I mean, I think it also depends on the experience of the editor and like how hard it is to work with the footage. So like our film probably take like eight more probably would have taken two years regardless.
00:13:35
Speaker
But I think a professional editor should be able to crank out at least the rough edit in a week. That'd be an interesting thing to ask a real editor. Yeah, because when you're working timelines, they're not going to want to work on one job for too long because of the money. Yeah, exactly. You're really only buying them for a certain time period, really. Yeah. I kind of feel like everything's going to be in tens. Ten thousand for coloring, ten thousand for...
00:14:05
Speaker
or VFX, and then probably 15,000 for composing. I sure hope not, because then the move is never going to count out. Well, that's not terrible, because I mean, if we're both only doing 5,000, and then if my money situation comes in like I think it might, we don't got to worry about shit. Yeah, that's true. But I mean, if it is coming out of us, it's going to be like,
00:14:33
Speaker
Oh, we're going to get half of coloring done this year. The next half will be next year. I sincerely hope I was thinking more like a $15,000 budget overall for everything. Yeah, I don't. Because I don't I don't even think it would be worth it to pay more than that.
00:14:52
Speaker
I don't think because of just the quality of like what the like all the mistakes we have like I think it's worth I don't know if it would it's gonna elevate the movie enough to like worth like Be spending so much money in a sense. I think it's worth it
00:15:08
Speaker
But you do make a good point where it's like, dude, you're not it's not Citizen Kane. Yeah, we're not literally a movie called Dickhead. So you have to have a cap. Yeah. And it's like you could I mean, you know, you could throw $50,000 at it and get the most perfect colorist. You could get the most perfect everything. Right. But it's not going to make the movie that much better. Yeah. And also they can only work with what they got. And a lot of it is pretty rough just in general to make that even better. Yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
And that's that's what I've been thinking too is like, you know, you have to be realistic to about like the output of the film. And like just actually what's like because to me, I think what's going to sound is going to be the sound is going to be the most important and then the then the composing.
00:15:53
Speaker
Like if we get good clean audio and room tone and all that and like all that mix is good and the composing that's going to be the biggest impact. I don't think we need to have like the craziest colorist or anything like that because I don't know because for the most part it looks decent especially when I've seen you go through and do your quick coloring and it's like this works for me like this is free.
00:16:20
Speaker
And I guess it's gonna be harder when we have to start matching shots and things like that. But it's also like, that's what their job, you know? At least that's what I'm thinking. Because I just don't want this to be like a money pit where we sink all this in. It's like, yeah, it doesn't go anywhere because it's one thing or another. Because that's a big fear of mine. Well, I gotta say, I believe, man.
00:16:48
Speaker
I mean, I've spent a ton of money on this project already. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean is that we've already spent, you know, everything. So, so I don't mind it, I guess, because I really want to, I just want to see it done to the best of its ability. Like when you were talking about the editing, well, there's only so many different avenues we can take with the way we're cutting it. Yeah. I understand that I accept that, but I think that,
00:17:16
Speaker
we can hit those ceilings for coloring, for audio mix, for composing, for VFX. Cause VFX probably be real cheap. I mean, we only have maybe like a couple things really, if anything. Yeah. You know, it's more like just enhancing. So, but I do think if we hit those ceilings, we'll walk away with something as solid as the edit. Yes. And if we can do that, then of the low budget films,
00:17:45
Speaker
will be the greatest 2B movie on the platform. Exactly. That's what I'm saying is like, man, I don't want to spend, you know, 50,000 just to be like next to another 2B movie. Hey, man, 2B has the Goonies. 2B has everything on it.
Streaming Platforms and AI in Film
00:18:00
Speaker
I don't know how they swung it, but everything ends up on 2B. The commercials. All roads lead to 2B, that's all I'm saying. The commercials and the autoplay. That's true. I don't even think you can get a commercial free subscription to 2B, can you? Do they even have that? I wouldn't even want to subscribe to 2B.
00:18:18
Speaker
No, they actually got good movies. They have the thing, the thing, the thing. They have good movies and good TV shows. Like, Tubi's pretty legit. It's just, you know, it's also completely full of garbage. Like, it is really a garbage dumping ground. Which is kind of cool though, right? Because... Oh, it's amazing.
00:18:36
Speaker
because there's some really bad films and I mean just like legitimately these are bad films but sometimes they're kind of fun too in their own way or maybe because I come where we come from that world I come from that world so it's kind of neat to see like I see what you did there you suck
00:18:52
Speaker
You suck. It's very encouraging, I think, too, just to watch those. And you had brought up that a film you worked on is on 2B now. Yeah. So a shout out to Thomas Toulac and Who Done Done Done It is on 2B. Yep. Just came out last Friday.
00:19:14
Speaker
So, go check that out. I'm dying to watch it and because I said I'd watch it with you. So, I'm not, I haven't watched it. So, I'm real curious to... I think you're definitely gonna enjoy it. I wonder if they spent $50,000 in post. No.
00:19:31
Speaker
I mean, because that movie like it made it to like some at least Kevin Smith's festival, like his film fest. Yeah, what is that? The Smod film fest, because he opened up a theater in New Jersey, the Smod Castle. Yeah. And so they host a film festival there every year. And that film made it into that, which I mean,
00:19:51
Speaker
Kevin Smith. I mean, he's like a huge stoner that just loves to laugh. So I heard he gave up weed. Really? Yeah. He got checked into a psych ward and everything. Oh, yes. I did read about this. I read about it on Reddit. Yeah. Yeah. Because he was like like he was going to rob Williams himself, you know, like he was getting that bad. Yeah. Because I think it was like the stress and anxiety of of like all everyone was like he did he man that he man showing Netflix. Yeah. And everyone like shit on him real bad. And I think it like really fucked him up.
00:20:20
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, this is all speculation. Like Kevin, I hope you're doing great. Like I fucking love Kevin Smith. Come on the podcast. We'll hear your side of the story. I mean, Tusk. Great film. Did you ever watch it? We watched it together. Yeah, but we didn't finish. Oh, that's right. So did you actually. I never finished it. I need to finish it. Yeah.
00:20:40
Speaker
Whenever I think of Tusk, I just think of you being like, I love that ringtone. I think I downloaded it and sent it to you too.
00:20:52
Speaker
But yeah, you know, because we're talking about like a lot of other things. The main topic is going to be about some about screenwriting in this episode. And we're talking about the Oscars because nominations came out. Yeah, I just saw the Oscar notes. I was like, oh, shit, the Oscars. Yeah. And. But to get back to like talking about post and just, you know, finishing Dickhead and things like that, it's like
00:21:21
Speaker
I'm like, I'm really nervous about like just the funding aspect of it, I guess. And maybe we could just actually just try to push to get like a crowdfunding thing. Once we actually have numbers to see. I mean, I don't think it would go anywhere because marketing like that is really difficult. Yeah, you gotta really spend time on that.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, and most people, it just fails miserably because there's- But also if we could just get enough money to maybe pay for one little aspect, I mean, how that's a lot. Cause I, you know, I bet like if we could at least, I mean, if we could even just raise like five grand, which I don't think we could do in a minute, like if we had 10 more years. But like, if we're like, yeah, the movie's pretty much done, but we, like the thing is, one,
00:22:06
Speaker
I feel like the thing I think that bothers me the most is I have no idea what things are going to cost.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, right. Like I've done a little bit of looking, but it literally goes from people will do it for free. Like you could literally just get like some dude's assistant that is like wants to get a feature credit and will do your thing for free or for, you know, a couple of grand, which, yeah. Yeah. Or like you said, 10K, 15K, which is like, OK, that's where it's like buying cars, like essentially. Yeah.
00:22:41
Speaker
And that's like, and the thing is too is like, you know, it's all out of our pockets, like our, our personal pockets. Are you making that big LA money now? So you know what I'm saying? Big Papa? That goes all to the taxes and those little kids, dude. Oh my God.
00:22:56
Speaker
I mean, maybe I can just go exempt for a year and then just go to jail for like three years for tax evasion. Once we get all that sweet dickhead money, you can pay off your taxes. There we go. Or I can just win this screenwriting thing and that would pay for one thing. But I wanted to talk about something that we had talked about on the last episode, getting into some news. We had said that
00:23:19
Speaker
So that George Carlin special had come out, we had talked about it, the AI one. George Carlin, I wish I was dead. That creepy one. Or thank God I'm dead or whatever it is. So the family is filing a lawsuit against the podcast that did it. Which is that the Will Sasso podcast then?
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah, but it's not on the podcast anymore. It's called Dudsy. I've never really heard it and I didn't listen to the podcast. Yeah. But from my understanding is it's not monetized at all. There's really like for, but they do make money off merchandising and stuff. So I think they're going to try to go off after it that way. Yeah. Because I was reading- Well, that sounds disgusting, right?
00:24:04
Speaker
Using his voice without permission and you're making money off your merchandise from that I think well what I was reading with that was interesting is they're Saying that and even like in the video they're saying it's it's an impersonation Which i'm not really sure like legally and i'm not a lawyer. I'm not I have zero I do not I have no idea how this will turn out but legally
00:24:27
Speaker
I don't know what it would be to clarify, like, can an AI be an impersonation? Like, if Will Sasso does, like, Donald Trump, is that, you know, does Donald Trump get to sue him then for his likeness? Yeah. Like, you want to let her out real quick? Yeah. All right, dogs, try to let you in here.
00:24:50
Speaker
Because the claims on the copyright are, it's the used likeness without permission. But it's like, it's like a weird, it's gonna, I think this could possibly present like legal precedents for court cases because it's like, are, is AI generated content an impersonation or is it likeness?
00:25:18
Speaker
I mean, it would have to be likeness, right? Yeah, but I don't know. Like I said, it's gonna come down to a lot of legal, a very specific legal jargon. It might be a really huge case, right? Because it'll set the precedent for like deepfakes, essentially. Well, speaking of deepfakes, like Taylor Swift is like cracking down because a bunch of people are sharing deepfakes of like her being naked.
00:25:40
Speaker
Oh, really? And like, this has been like ongoing with a bunch of different celebrities. But when it comes to Taylor Swift, like things happen. Yeah. As people say, it's like she comes down Swift, you know, like whatever on the Internet. It's like, damn, do you like government laws, you know, and things like that are like are starting to shake up because of like. Well, that shit needs to be made illegal. Right. Yeah. Because also it doesn't just apply to celebrities. It can apply to like your daughter.
00:26:07
Speaker
my daughter. It applies to all of us. It applies to us. No one wants to see that. I promise you there will never be a deep fake of us. I don't know. I think there's a few. Maybe as like a joke. I think the hills have eyes. A couple of all of you. Yeah. Go ahead. All of that's really interesting to see how this is all going to pan out.
00:26:30
Speaker
You know, like I said, it really does seem like the Wild West. And I mean, this is what kind of like SAG or not SAG. Yeah, SAG was kind of like, hey, we're really worried about this. And WAG, right? Or is that WGA? Yeah. But the SAG was like, you know, we're really worried about this. Yeah. Because I think there are probably a lot of actors that have probably signed away.
00:26:53
Speaker
their rights to be digitally reproduced. And there's probably not a lot they can do about that anymore. And I bet there are studios that literally just own people. And they can just remake them in AI whenever. Yeah, I mean, there's gonna, I mean, government's gonna have to really get involved and set the precedent here, like the Supreme Court or something to what all of this is gonna mean in this new age. Because even with the George Carlin and talk about the WGA,
00:27:21
Speaker
I had never seen such convincing AI until that George Carlin, that AI George Carlin special. And then thinking like, wow, if it could come up with this standup skit, well, what's to prevent the AI from coming up with a really good script?
00:27:39
Speaker
You know, Cargill said that wasn't gonna fly. That wasn't gonna happen. That motherfucker, I told him. I'm like, really? You don't think? I don't know. I think that shit's gonna be pretty strong, pretty quick, pretty real, pretty quick. Yeah. And also the thing is too, is it doesn't even necessarily have to be good.
00:28:02
Speaker
Um for it to be used there could be human editors. Exactly, right? It just it you're like, okay I'm gonna feed you in like every script learn how like learn off these scripts and then generate and it's the thing is it's gonna generate original content, which I think is what is Interesting about it. Well, what's original mean? Well, essentially it's gonna write something that is probably gonna look like very closely to something but be its own take like whatever the
00:28:31
Speaker
perfect, I won't be perfect, but whatever the mushing of, because that's what kind of story is, right? Our experience is told out through different ways and mediums. You've been bullied here, you write Star Wars.
00:28:52
Speaker
I'm going to beat Darth Vader. You know, that was like George Lucas is bully like, right? It's probably some guy at Fox that like, you know, like stabbed him in the dick or something. Well, Fox is actually like save Star Wars. Maybe it was someone else. Let me ask you this.
00:29:06
Speaker
because it made me think of how you were talking about the AI, George Carlin, where they just fed it tons of his interviews and standup and then a bunch of the news, right? And asked it questions. And through that, it formed its standup. Yeah, and also, well, I'm not entirely sure because I was also reading things that contradict that, that kind of what they did was they also kind of fed it,
00:29:32
Speaker
Oh, well that's... So I was kind of starting to get disappointed in that because I thought it was a true example of an AI like pulling the originality, but then someone was saying like one of the podcast hosts probably wrote some of the jokes. Oh, okay. And I was like, oh, that... Those were probably the ones we laughed at. Yeah. But okay, well anyways, AI will eventually be there, right? To be able to do that at some point. Yes. And probably a lot sooner than we realize.
00:30:01
Speaker
So what happens when you have this AI and you're just feeding it all of these great masterpiece films? And then it's outputting something of a similar quality, even if it's a little less. I mean, being a little less than Dr. Strangelove, like, yeah, that's still going to be a fucking great movie. How would you feel about that? How do you feel about that? And then how do you feel about watching those movies as a consumer?
00:30:31
Speaker
Like how do you feel about that as a artist, filmmaker, and then how do you feel about it as a consumer? Well, as an artist, filmmaker, I don't care. Really? Not at all. Because to me, I'm just as an artist, filmmaker, and as a consumer, I'm just excited to see good things. I don't really care where they come from. I don't know any of these people.
00:30:56
Speaker
Like I would I would like to know them I would like to get to know like more screenwriters and directors and producers and gaffers and Best boys and electricians and all this shit. Yeah, I want to know more of them but
00:31:09
Speaker
At the end of the day, there's gonna be human oversight, of course, but also I just wanna see good shit. And if the robots are making the good shit, I don't fucking care. I couldn't care less. That's where I come as, what is it? It's like when the best rice to the top.
00:31:34
Speaker
That's some soil and green shit right there. Not like, you know, it's like when people are like, there's meritocracy. That's how I feel about, at least with art and film, because human writers suck. Yeah. Most of the movies, like we're going to talk about a lot of the Oscar films, really fucking bad writing. Like you've seen most of them? I've seen four of the ten. Oh, for the best pictures? You for best pictures. OK. And I've seen that.
00:32:03
Speaker
And I've only seen, so I've seen like five of the movies in total.
00:32:07
Speaker
like of all of them. So not that many, that's what I got to work on. So I have four more, so I have a bunch of the best pictures to watch. Luckily a lot of them are already available on streaming. There's only three that are not. I haven't seen a single best picture. You saw Oppen, oh, there's the other list. Yeah. I've seen half of Oppenheimer.
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah, because you guys came late. Yeah. So you got a lot to catch up on. Does that mean I gotta watch Oppenheimer again, I guess? I'm sorry, dude. But yeah, I've seen four of the best pictures and there are 10 best pictures. Seven are available to watch now. And then three are still in theaters. To go on a quick side there.
00:32:57
Speaker
Thomas Tulek, who we just mentioned, he posted an interesting thing on Facebook where he said, there's 10 best picture nominations, but only, how many? Five. But only five best directors. So do you think the best, like should best director be a bigger field like
Oscar Nominations and Diversity Rules
00:33:17
Speaker
best picture? No, and I don't think best picture should be 10. I think that's too many. I think best picture should be,
00:33:25
Speaker
However many really good movies there were Like what the what does that mean? Like my problem is it's like sometimes I'm like there are films like um That are just kind of thrown in there like I know a lot of people are like probably going to be like barbie should be there It's probably you might even win. I don't fucking know but like I don't think barbie should be in best picture Really? You didn't think it was that good not like to me best picture is like parasite
00:33:52
Speaker
Roma. Well, those don't exist this year, okay? The best you got that I've seen, which is only one film, is Oppenheimer. You know, even like a film like Coda. Like, that was a really solid movie. Yeah, it was very solid. And I... Even the Green Book was a solid film. Yeah, no, I have no problems with Green Book. There's no way Barbie's worse than Green Book.
00:34:14
Speaker
It's not. Barbie's better than green. Okay, so then there you go. But what I'm saying is like, I just want like, why does it have to always be 10? I think it's better when it's five. I think it should be like the top five movies. Well, I thought part of the reason why it was 10. And I don't know where I got this from. But I thought part of the reason was so that more mainstream films could get in.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yes, that was the big push because I think for a few years it was like eight. Because then maybe Barbie doesn't get in. Yeah. Otherwise. Barbie probably, yeah. I don't know. Because like there was that big push also because of the Marvel films, right?
00:34:55
Speaker
They're like, why is he my Captain America with Winter Soldier up for base picture? And it's like, well, because it's a piece of shit for them. But then, you know, people don't like to hear that. Yeah. And then it's like, well, then we get. But because of that, we get Avatar 2 in the fucking best picture nomination.
00:35:14
Speaker
And then they get to plaster best picture nomination on every marketing thing. And you're like, it's fucking Avatar 2. It's like a piece of shit. It's like a piece of flaming shit. But then on the same hand, you have these best pictures that no one even saw and they're completely slog. It's just a slog to get through. And they're these artsy fartsy movies that really don't inspire anything. And it's just slow and boring, right?
00:35:41
Speaker
We've watched the list a lot of times and it's like, okay, this is that best picture where you would never want to see it again. Yes. And no one's ever going to see it again and everyone's going to forget it even existed. Well. But it's like that Oscar best picture type of film. The one that always popped into my head is fucking, what is it, Shakespeare in Love?
00:36:02
Speaker
That film's good. Well, it went against Private Ryan. Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to look it up. Hey, but that doesn't count because we know Shakespeare in Love. We still talk about it to this day. Well, it's one I remember because I think that was the first time I ever actually paid attention to the Oscars was that year. Oh, really? Yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
I've been always always in them to movies and stuff, but I remember watching it with my grandma and it was like Shakespeare in love and then we rented it and then we watched it and I was like, oh, this is it's it's really it's pretty good. It's good But but private Ryan like that movie is monumental. Yeah in a lot of ways I mean it's still talked about to this day. I would I also would rather watch that any day over
00:36:45
Speaker
Shakespeare Love. Shakespeare Love. I've never seen it since then and that was like 1998 or something. That's true, I guess, if I had a choice. Well, I don't know if that's so true. I mean, Private Ryan's a little depressing. I don't mind depressing. I mean, existence is depressing. I thought you like good rom coms. Rom com. Yeah, but eh.
00:37:06
Speaker
I'm not a big fan of her anymore. You brought up something, and I think we should talk about it a little bit more. You mentioned writing for a grand prize of $5,000.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah. You want to tell us about that? Oh, that's the main discussion. Nevermind. I guess I should have read the notes. You should have because I struggled writing those main notes. But to get into the Oscars, you said you haven't seen too many, but there was a couple of things I did want to bring up. So
00:37:40
Speaker
One thing I think with this year, the Oscars enacted the diversity thing. Oh, yeah. And I'm curious if that's why Iron Claw got no nominations because it didn't meet the diversity requirements. No, because Oppenheimer doesn't meet them.
00:37:55
Speaker
It doesn't? No. Film threat, you know how I like watching them a lot. They were talking about that. I don't think any of the best pictures really meet the requirements and Oppenheimer certainly did it. Interesting. From what they said. And I know a lot of people, because I remember there was a big pushback because they included Jewish as a white category. Well, a lot of minorities would include Jewish as a white category. Yeah. And then a lot of Jewish people were like, well,
00:38:24
Speaker
We ain't white. Yeah. Well, no one wants to actually be white until it benefits them, right? Yeah. And then it's like, nope, I'm white. And I think that's a Dave Chappelle joke, right? Where he's like, Jews can be a minority until they need to be white or gays or whatever, like white men that are gay, right? They're gay until they need to be white.
00:38:46
Speaker
All right. Whatever it is. And it's like, yeah. Well, I mean, this whole diversity shit is it's it's fucking racist, man. Let's be honest. Right. Oh, you can't have white people only in your film. I mean, what? So you're going to exclude a film based on race? Like seriously? And then call yourself, you know, not racist. But I mean, I get it because within the vacuum, yeah, it makes sense within that specific time. Mm hmm.
00:39:15
Speaker
But I don't think that's necessary. You know, I think Hollywood naturally is kind of going in that direction anyways, you know, where it's becoming more open. It's more of, society is pushing more for diversity and of course films follow whatever society dictates, right? Wherever they feel that it's leading, that's where they're going to go because that's where the money's at.
00:39:38
Speaker
I don't know, man, that just sounds fucked up to me. Like, if Iron Claw didn't get it, I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll watch it if I watch all the other movies and be like, Iron Claw, that's a huge shot. Should have made it. Honestly, to me, like, of the four I've seen, it's probably second best. No, third best, because I think killers with Iron Moon Holdovers are really good.
00:39:59
Speaker
Well, it will be interesting for poor things. Yeah. I think that's the one that'll be really interesting to see. Because, I mean, the favorite was amazing. Yeah. And I've heard nothing but good things about poor things. Yorgos, that guy, he's someone to look out for. And one thing I love too is Motherfucker likes to build sets.
00:40:17
Speaker
And to me, I feel like that's almost becoming a dying art because everyone just wants to film in those fucking VR rooms or whatever they are. The light panel rooms were... And I saw a video where it was like, do you think this is real? And it was like a beach flowing in and out. And I was like, it looks fake as fuck. What are you talking about?
00:40:39
Speaker
Who's thinking this is real? Like someone that's never been to the beach before? I don't understand who this, who this appeals to. Well, I got to give, you know, I got to, you know, Nolan, I don't know. I don't know about Nolan.
00:40:52
Speaker
But I do appreciate him, right? Because Oppenheimer's very little VFX, right? It's all practicals. Our digital effects, it's mostly practical and being on location and building a lot of that stuff. Like he even blew up a fucking bomb, right? Yeah. So I mean, I do appreciate that about him. And I think there is something to that. It just, it makes something feel more epic.
Impact of Effects in Film
00:41:22
Speaker
I don't know. Just the way it's able to capture it. I don't know. I can't explain it. Yes. Maybe because it's a little less resolution. So you don't see the seams of the fakeness, right? Cause all films are fake in case people didn't know that. So you don't actually killing anybody. Yeah. So you don't see those seams, but with digital cameras now and the, the, the sharpness feels enhanced.
00:41:49
Speaker
So you just notice it more and it just feels so bad. We were talking about on the last podcast, I was watching the sci-fi film where you could tell everything was on a set. And you can, because of the VFX, they really just showcase how much things look like a set.
00:42:07
Speaker
I was watching Alien not that long ago. That's a little set that they recycled over and over. But goddamn, if that doesn't feel like it's a real fucking ship. Yeah, well, I was I was actually going to just bring up Alien because I saw someone had posted like a bunch of quotes from John Hurt.
00:42:23
Speaker
But they had a picture, like a behind the scene picture of him on the set, of him just leaning against the space jockey set in his spacesuit. And I was like, this looks so fucking great.
00:42:39
Speaker
And when you watch Alien and when you watch even like those old shitty sets in like the B sci-fi movies and stuff like that, it's like this just feels so tangible. Well, yeah, like the one before Alien, the space one that the writer did. Oh, Dark Star.
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I really dug the sets, right? And they're just like keyboards and shit like that, that they put lights in and whatnot or telephone keys or whatever. Yeah, well, A-car ends. A-car ends. Yeah. And they did an amazing job. Like it has, that film does have a charm to it.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, even though there is just a painted beach ball as one of the aliens or whatever. It's a rough one to get through, but there is a certain charm. There is a charm, and I am such a sucker for it. The problem is I feel like we might be in the minority because those movies don't make money.
00:43:34
Speaker
I mean, luckily Oppenheimer made money. Well, those movies don't make money, but Alien made money, right? Yeah, but that movie is almost 50 years old now. Yeah, that's true. But what I'm saying is that...
00:43:52
Speaker
there's something to be said of really good practicals and are just passion put into a movie. Like I was watching Lord of the Rings because it's on Max, HBO Max, and they have the extended versions. So while I'm taking care of Sophia, I'm also watching those with her because, you know, I got to kill time and it's comforting to have the sound.
00:44:14
Speaker
and to see the other scenes. Lord of the Rings is a weirdly perfect relaxation film. It's one I always put on too. It's like if you want to chill for the whole day, just put on the trilogy. It's going to last your entire night. Yep. But yeah, it is a bit like comfort food. There are VFX and they didn't age well, I'll admit, because the golem looks like shit now.
00:44:37
Speaker
It's not even the right coloring for everything else. It's a little, the coloring's off so it doesn't blend in as well. And it could be because, you know, everything's just so much more high quality. You know, the screen you watch is so much more fidelity than it used to be. So you can, again, you can see the seams better.
00:44:56
Speaker
But it still holds up and part of the reason why it holds up in my opinion is because it was shot in New Zealand. A lot of it was practical. Yeah. And then for the real fantastical stuff, sure, then they went. They did a lot of sound stages, but the thing is, they built the sound stages up. Yeah. Right? Like they built like the fake rocks and they felt, you know, the mountains and the, like, I know a lot of the, like when, in two towers,
00:45:21
Speaker
the trees, that's all done on a sound stage. But you know, they actually built trees and they built branches. But not even that, not only that, they also did miniatures and they utilized miniatures. Like he did every trick in the book is in Lord of the Rings, right? Forced perspective, like so many just visual effect tricks.
00:45:43
Speaker
They do them. Yeah. And it shines, like it's just a nice little marriage, even though I think the digital effects kind of hurt it now. Even though at the time I was like, oh my God, Kolo looks real. Yeah. So I don't know, but you know, everyone's leaned so hard into digital effects where it's just so, and there's always so much going on on the screen. You can't follow anything. You just get bored, numb to it. Yes.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah and i'm not gonna say like digital effects don't require artists creating art. It's just.
00:46:21
Speaker
To me, there is a difference. They're not there. One of the things that I think about a lot is when I'm thinking about digital arts versus being on set or a big green screen thing is take two movies from the same franchise. You have Star Wars, the prequels, and then you have the original trilogy, which had early VFX and blue screen and stuff for a lot of the space stuff. But then you have
00:46:50
Speaker
the map paintings. Have you ever seen that picture of the guy painting the stormtroopers? Yeah, I just saw that the other day. And you're like, God damn, that is so convincing. I always thought that was real. Yeah, right. And it's like they just hired a hundred extras and they build a hundred stormtrooper costumes and like it's there. But no, it's just a dude painting. And then they just put the glass in front of the fucking camera. Yeah. And then when you notice those stormtroopers don't move, they're like statues. Oh, shit, that is that's fake. Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
And then look at episode two. That scene at the end. I don't even remember episode two that one. That epic battle scene at the end when Mace Windu decapitates Jango Fett. Oh, at the arena? Yeah, that one. That looks so fucking awful. And how everyone is just walking down empty hallways. It looks like dog shit.
00:47:48
Speaker
compared to the dude that just painted it. That just painted on some glass. And that looks beautiful and it still convinces you to this day that it works. Yeah, I really had... I never knew that wasn't real. I never knew it until I saw that. And I think that is the best part of movie magic is when it convinces you that it's real or that it's like a magic trick. And I think one of the best ones who does digital effects, and you would never know it's fake, is David Fincher.
00:48:17
Speaker
He just uses it as little accent points, like making a building look a certain way or just changing maybe a little marquee. You never know. He does tons of VFX. And he does it so well. Like he really knows how to utilize it within the space he's working and just make it unnoticeable.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, because he also also it's like the director, it's about how knowing how to blend. Yeah. Like you need so much real so that you can build on top of. Yeah. I think when you build from nothing also, you have to have like the best of the best actors to pull off.
00:48:58
Speaker
essentially standing there and looking at tennis balls. From having worked on the limited amount of sets I've worked on, there's a real fucking energy to being there. And I imagine just standing there in front of a screen is...
00:49:17
Speaker
very demoralizing, I don't know. Well, isn't there that famous story?
Acting Challenges and Diversity in Casting
00:49:22
Speaker
Well, in this case, it's not famous, but that story of Ian McAllen. Yeah, crying on the set of The Hobbit. On the set of The Hobbit, because it was all VFR digital effects, and it was just all green screen or blue screen. Yeah, and he was mostly acting by himself almost all the time. Yeah. And like, you know, it's like, actors need it, you know? I think they need it. They need to see that person.
00:49:43
Speaker
They need to have that environment. Like the more real you can make it for them, I think the more real it becomes for them and it translates onto the film. And I think that's why method acting is so...
00:49:55
Speaker
what's like pursued though I did read an interesting article about Natalie Portman kind of thing like women don't really get the luxury of being method actors as opposed to men because they're expected to behave in certain ways and they have to like
00:50:16
Speaker
Um, they have to just act or like men can like, you know, they can become lincoln or whatever, right? Like they can share. Leto can mail people like dead rats and shit. Yeah, get away with it Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I mean That's that's a world. I don't know like someone's supposed to act on set. I don't know. Yeah, don't kill anyone Don't kill. Yeah, don't kill anyone. Yeah But we're talking about the oscars. Oh, yeah the oscars
00:50:40
Speaker
Um, yeah, and yeah, diversity and somehow I got into CGI versus practical, but. Well, see, that's when you need to use digital effects. Just add a couple black people, Asian people, some Mexicans, you know, look right there. See him. I mean, you should watch dickhead. We got it all.
00:50:59
Speaker
Well, actually we dealt, we're pretty, we wouldn't make it the best picture. I guess we get the, maybe you are allowed to ask, I guess. And if you, no one probably knows what we're talking about. So I think we're okay.
00:51:12
Speaker
I'm not even sure what we're talking about. Exactly, don't worry about it. But I will say, looking at the best picture list, other than poor things, because we already kind of talked about how we're excited to see that. And I believe neither of us have seen it. What are you looking forward to seeing like the most on the best picture list? Nothing. Really? The only thing I'm pretty, well, no, the one I did want to see is The Holdovers, because I wanted to watch that with my family. Yeah. Because you said it's a good like family movie.
00:51:41
Speaker
The Holdovers is really fucking good. So I wanted to watch that one, but no one wanted to watch it with me.
Interest in Upcoming Films
00:51:48
Speaker
And then the other one, maybe Flowers of the Moon, because of how you built it up. So, you know, that kind of got me interested. But really, I don't really... You know, because Oscar Best Pictures, they're always the same type of film. You know, and it's like, sometimes I want to have fun watching a film. Not to say that not all of them are. I mean, one of my favorite films is Parasite.
00:52:09
Speaker
Yeah. But a lot of times they're just, they take so much effort. Remember when we're talking about movies that take effort challenge, maybe they're too challenging for me. I'll give them that credit. It's just, I want to enjoy the film. Yeah. And a lot of them just aren't for whatever reason. Well, I will say I'm really interested in zone of interest.
00:52:37
Speaker
Even though that's probably the most challenging. It sounds boring. Those challenging films on the list. I'm just glad Saltburn's not on there. I heard bad things about that film and I do not care to see it. All I know is there's like a guy that like drinks like cum out of a bathtub, like water bathtub or something. Yeah, that sounds like something I can't wait to see. No, honestly, if Iron Claw was on that, that would have been my film I was looking forward to. Honestly, that to me is the fact that
00:53:04
Speaker
they got zero nominations is fucking insane to me. Like, absolutely, like, it's really good. Like, it's really fucking good. You know, there's an epidemic for men, right? Where they're like killing themselves and not going to college and all of them are virgins now. Hmm, I wonder what that Iron Claw movie's about. That's exactly like a lot of the stuff it addresses. Oh, interesting. So maybe that's kind of why I didn't get any recognition because it's a male movie.
00:53:33
Speaker
That's true. It is really just all about men and men struggle. Who wants to hear about the man struggle and male issues? We're all just dying off, but you know, fuck, we're patriarch. I wouldn't even say that's why it's so good. One reason I think it's so good is it takes a real life story and
00:54:01
Speaker
It just like gives it to you. Like here you go, like there's no- See, just like a man, it just gives it to you, huh? Yeah, like I would say it just shows like how fucked up people are and it doesn't hold back in a way. I think a lot of movies do hold back from that. Especially like half these movies are like based on real people or like real life stories, right?
00:54:29
Speaker
Barbie. Yeah, Barbie, which is based on real people. Killers of Flower Moon, right? Based on True Story. Maestro, Maestro, whatever. Based on True Story. Oppenheimer, True Story. Poor Things, True Story. It's out of interest. True Story. Well, like, all these, like, and I'm kind of getting really fucking sick of those movies, but then Iron Claw comes out and you're like, oh, fuck.
00:54:53
Speaker
Why are you getting sick of them? Because there's something, I'm so tired of just like, it feels like these are just like set there. It's so easy to, they're just set up and they're so easy to just knock out of the park because it's like, you can't really beat true life stories in a sense because it's like sometimes reality is like stranger than fiction. And
00:55:15
Speaker
every now and then you get like like that boys in the boat movie, which I mean, I know why I didn't get any nominations because it's like fucking like white power of the movie because it's a boat movie about fucking rowing. That's why I didn't get a nomination. And also like everything other than the rowing scenes, I think, are pretty like it's just that feel good movie. And like even like the conflict in the movie is like, I just get over it, whatever.
00:55:45
Speaker
And then you get iron claw where it's like everyone's just killing themselves left and right. No one's getting over it at that one. No one's getting over it. Like everyone's just trying to push themselves. Like everyone has a, you know, most people had a fucked up dad, you know, but I guess I just, I,
00:56:00
Speaker
Most people had a fucked up dad. It's like, speaking of George Carlin, it's like that George Carlin joke where it's like, hell's filled with dads. Is that a joke? Yeah. He was like, he's like, you know, when you go to a funeral, they're always like, oh, I hope they're looking down on me. He's like, not if they were a dad.
00:56:22
Speaker
All dads go to hell. Wait, was that the AIG? No. Oh, okay. That's sort of one of his specials. I was like, thank God. He's like, hell is filled with fathers.
00:56:35
Speaker
But like, to me, like, because I've been watching a lot of older movies, always, like, as I do.
Old Films: Relevance and Critique
00:56:41
Speaker
Oh, I saw you on your on the Plex Cat People's on there. Yeah, I watched. I heard that movie is amazing. It's so fucking weird. I heard it's really good. It is. I watched it. Yeah, I was like, oh, wait, that's can't be kept people in here. Yeah, I got to watch it.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah, so the same guy that recommended Cat People to me also recommended that Curse of the Demon that I was telling you about, which is like the ring that was made in the 50s. Is that on the Plex too? Yeah. Oh, okay. And to me, that is a true hidden gem because I had never, never heard anyone talk about it.
00:57:15
Speaker
And it's probably one of the best horror movies I've seen in so long. Oh, wow. And it's really fucking good. Like, it's a movie that actually does probably deserves to be remade today because the effects are kind of leave a lot to be desired because it was made in the 50s. Yeah. And and it's like, or maybe it's 60s. Like House on Haunted Hill. Yeah. With the skeleton. But like the setup of the story is like,
00:57:40
Speaker
there's like essentially like a religious occultist priest guy that curses you with this demon and like you have three days and then you die. Oh wow, that is a lot like the ring. And you have to essentially give him back this cursed object without him knowing.
00:57:59
Speaker
Oh cool. So there's like this thing where he's like won't accept like a piece of paper from the person and like there's all these like there's tricks and it's like trying to figure out how to sneak it back to him to like get rid of the curse. Yeah that sounds fun. And like yeah and it's like it's fucking great it's so fucking good and then the demon like eats the guy at the end. Okay well thanks for spoiling it. Well he's some like demon eats somebody. He eats a lot of people this demon he's a fucking he's a hungry demon. It's not really a spoiler I mean
00:58:27
Speaker
It's a movie about a demon that eats people. He's gonna eat somebody. Somebody's gonna die at the end of the movie. I won't say who, but somebody. Someone has to. But I was literally like blown away. I love that watching like an older film and then just seeing it like how timely it still is and how it still holds up so well or even feels like it's beyond now. Like cat people. That movie's like nuts.
00:58:53
Speaker
Do you know what it's about? A little bit, because my mentor who I talk about all the time, he was telling me, he's like, yeah, you got to watch Cat People. You never heard of that? I was like, no, I never heard of Cat People. He's like, oh, it's by so-and-so and so-and-so's in it. You know, because he knows he's from that time as well. He was probably in it. He is the cat person. But yeah, he's just so knowledgeable and he's like, yeah, dude, you got to watch Cat People. If you want to see a good horror film, watch Cat People. Yeah.
00:59:20
Speaker
Sounds stupid. I'll tell you the premise and it's the craziest premise ever. It's about a woman from like Slovakia or like Croatia or whatever. And she is from a village of people that believe that if she has sex, she will turn into a cat and murder her husband.
00:59:38
Speaker
beside me. And so she's afraid to fuck the guy because she'll murder him. And then she keeps coming and seeing this cat in the zoo. She starts to believe the hype, right? And so she starts feeding this big ass leopard at the zoo and shit or panther or whatever it is. And things just kind of spiral out of control from there.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, it gets really good. That's like there's some really great like stalking scenes that of nothing. Oh, it's just like the camera. It's like an almost like an early Sam Raimi ish like where is like the threat and it's like the actors are just portraying that they're frightened and like there's like something stalking them and then like there might be like a rustle in the bushes and they're way more psychological. Yes. Wow. Okay. And it's
01:00:31
Speaker
A plus. You know, it's so interesting since you're watching all these older movies just to hear you give the synopsis because it's like, shit, that doesn't sound like what you would think an old-timey movie is. Like singing in the rain, like, it's just people singing in the rain, you know? And it kind of is this cheesy thing. But then when you're like, actually, it's about the advent or the invention of the talkies and then all the silent film actors going away and this depressing thing. It's like Babylon.
01:01:01
Speaker
And it's like, oh, wow, that's actually, sounds really interesting and really deep of a subject matter, not just some, I guess, cause when I think of old films, I always think of the fifties, you know, and how those films were, right? And they're all musicals, a little bit campy. Yeah, well, the Hayes code kind of came in at that time, pre-writes the ratings. And then it's like, you can't do this, you can't do that. And it's like, you know, it's like with the diversity thing to some,
01:01:31
Speaker
It's a, I think the diversity thing is way lesser of an extent of like the Haze code or it's like, well, you just, just like throw some people in that aren't white and you're probably fine.
01:01:41
Speaker
Right? Just cast people that aren't white. And you're probably good. Yeah, we'll be good. Except don't put someone in that's don't cast any trans actors that are going to play like our straight people or non trans actors are going to play trans characters. And you're probably. Yeah, yeah. Because for some reason, that's a big problem. And I don't that was one that I'll never I will never understand that position. Whereas I just don't understand it at all. I mean, they're actors. Guess what they do. Yeah.
01:02:08
Speaker
It's like, we're not resurrecting Lincoln. Daniel Day-Lewis could be Lincoln. Guess what? He isn't Abraham Lincoln, but he's going to betray Abraham. Kelly Murphy, you know, surprisingly, wasn't Oppenheimer. He's actually really bad at math, surprisingly.
Casting Controversies and Podcast Plans
01:02:22
Speaker
You know, I think he, I think he took away a job from Oppenheimer. Yeah. You know, and even like it's like, uh, you know, Richard Simmons can't play Richard Simmons in his, in his bio. Polly Shore needs a job.
01:02:34
Speaker
But yeah, it's something, it boggles my mind. But I will say, because it's almost been, because I've been watching so many new movies, I just have to kind of like rebel against it because man, most of them really fucking suck and it really bums me out. Well, I'll say in defense of new movies, this year was bad.
01:02:56
Speaker
This was a bad, wait, this year just started, last year was bad. Last year was really bad. So maybe- Especially for like the, for me of the mainstream, like the bigger movies, like- Oh dude, I watched a lot of B-movies last year, like Slotherhouse, Silent Knife.
01:03:13
Speaker
Yeah, just tons of B movies like that Jesus Christ, you're like it getting through them is agony and the thing is that that blows my mind is like I I don't know why but I keep going on social media to read and I always make sure I'm posting and trying to tweet so Yeah, you gotta get us more guests. Yeah, I'm trying
01:03:35
Speaker
I try, well, I haven't even really reached out because like our schedules have been chaotic. And it's like, how would we even schedule a guest right now? Like, we have one time slot, 10 p.m. on a Friday. Hey man, you get Kevin Smith, I'll call off work, dude. I'll do whatever it takes, okay? That's true, yeah. You know, you get someone, I'll do whatever I have to. I know, that's why it's like, we need to bring the people on, we need to bring people back on the show. We still have a lot, like, we still gotta finish the Jared and Clark episode. Yeah, I was thinking about that too recently. I've been talking...
01:04:04
Speaker
I've been talking with Steven and Joe. Oh, yeah. I've been talking with them because... Did you see his YouTube video he did? Yes. On Boy and the Heron. Yeah. Well, it was film in general, but like appreciation of film. Yeah. So that's when I reached out and I was like, damn, dude, you know, it's been a while. Like we should really... That's so funny you mentioned it because I was like, oh, it'd be kind of cool to get them back on and talk about his YouTube and, you know, what he might have plans for with that. Because who did it? It was... Miyazaki.
01:04:34
Speaker
Oh. No, was it Steve, or? What's the other fucker's name? Joe. It was Steve. Yeah, Steve. Yeah. Yeah, Steve's the one, he's the writer, director, and Steve's the cinematographer. It's so funny kind of seeing that because he's so insightful. It's like, damn, dude, I'm just like a dumb monkey, like, what can't people? What can't people? That a good movie. Hey, man. Sometimes, you know, you speak to the masses.
01:05:03
Speaker
Yes, I do. They're like, oh, I understand, master. I understand. But I mean, so other than one other thing I want to talk about the Oscars is, you know, every year we try to do like some kind of thing for the Oscars and, you know, I'll probably try to have like a party and again and
01:05:24
Speaker
Maybe we can actually try to do the live stream, but maybe not because then we all have kids and like the kids like we'll be hanging out would be my guess. So maybe it needs to be a little more low key in that sense.
01:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one. Like really we got to do without the kids. And also if we're going to stream it, we kind of have to have like something set up to be a good stream, not just people randomly yelling in the background. Yeah. But I mean, I'd be down to do a good stream. Yeah. Look at our partners owe it to us to let us chase our dreams. We gave them the dreams of children. But the real question, buddy.
01:06:04
Speaker
And you opposed this to me. I like how it's in color. I even upped the DPI on the printer. Yeah, I was like, wow, that's a really good looking image. I thought it'd be like black and white Xerox, where it's kind of scary. Is that a person? We even have some nice printer paper, but I was like, I ain't gonna go that far.
01:06:20
Speaker
Then I'll get in trouble. So you posed the question, Selma Hayek or Kate Upton, and I think... Now, I will add this footnote. I was just sending that to you as like a joke because it was... Oh.
01:06:36
Speaker
A little perverted, and I love how you put it in the actual podcast. So what is this question you ask it, sir? So it was just a, you know, just a simple male objectification of women about, you know, the physical beauty of two very talented female actresses. Well, Kate Upton's not an actress, right? She's a... She was in a movie. Model, isn't she? She's been in a movie. Oh, really? I thought she was only a model. I think she was in that...
01:07:05
Speaker
layover movie with Alexandra Daddario. But Salma Hayek, right? She just, like, she's beautiful. And there's like... Yeah. Well, I mean, Kay Upton's just like, whew, my God, you're real? We're of the same species? Jesus, what happened to me? I was saying, I know I've been looking at the picture and Salma Hayek just has the superior belly button.
01:07:28
Speaker
So, you know, I'm gonna go with you know, she's yeah, you know, I'm a bit big on belly buttons There's some like weird looking belly buttons. I've seen where it's like Like I got a cute one. Oh, yeah, Sophia's I Don't know man. I hope she grows into it. She's still developing That she don't even have kneecaps yet, but it's so it's so funny because it's like I
01:07:51
Speaker
Oh, it's the cutest belly butt I've ever seen still, you know? Yeah. Damn those kids. They just know how to pull at those heartstrings, right? Well, they got to survive, right? It's evolutionary. That's true. I definitely like, yeah, you're the cutest kid ever. It was like, but is that true or is that just biology? So stay tuned for Oscars and then we're going to jump in. I say we should try to do that, a live stream for it if we can. Everyone else is doing it.
01:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, it just sometimes hard. No, I know it's hard. It's all of it's hard right now, but we need to, I don't know. I think I've been thinking about this lately. Like we need to, well, I guess I've always, even before everything now, I've been thinking about just the sacrifice of things. And I think if you wanna achieve the level we're aiming for or the levels we're aiming for, there has to be great sacrifice.
01:08:47
Speaker
Absolutely. And I mean, of course, we want to find that balance because, you know, I don't want to fuck up someone else's life because of my choices, you know, especially someone so young and innocent and who didn't ask for any of what I put them through.
01:09:05
Speaker
But you have, there has to be that sacrifice. There's only so much time in the day and so much energy one possesses and something's got to give. So I don't, I don't know. I mean, we got to figure out what that balance is, but. No, but you're right. I think, um, and this is like, this can also go out to, you know, everyone out there that wants to get into like filmmaking or wants to be a filmmaker. It's a field.
01:09:34
Speaker
of art that is collaborative. No one is doing this on their own. And if you are pretending like that's why I always I'm like.
01:09:45
Speaker
The, you know, I remember you and always brings me back to, sorry, because I'm rambling. Brings me back to an episode that we did with Jared and Clark, where you and Jerry were like, arguing about like our tour theory. Yeah, but I don't really know what it means. So kind of just argue what I think. It's like essentially like every aspect is coming from like the one person.
01:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. Which only really like kind of fits with like Kubrick in a sense where like Kubrick like the one. But not even true. I mean, look at Peter Sellers, right?
01:10:17
Speaker
No, but what I'm saying is what I mean by that is he had such control that he would watch the seamstresses do the stitches to make sure that they were the accurate stitches to the time period for the film. Damn, isn't that fucking crazy to know what's accurate? If someone's sewing in front of me, I'd be like, I don't know what the fuck they're doing. I'm just drinking over here. But also to me, I'm like,
01:10:45
Speaker
If someone is noticing, like, I'm at a level where I'm like, if someone notices the stitch on the clothing, I won. Like, that's where I'm at. Like, I fucking won. Like, you are paying that close of attention to my movie.
01:11:02
Speaker
Yes, I won. Like you were like there. You're watching the movie at that degree. Yeah, with that much attention spent on it. Like there's nothing greater that a filmmaker could ask for. Like if someone is scrutinizing your film to that detail, that means they're watching it a lot. Yeah, that means you have eyes on your film, which is like what you know what you need.
Filmmaking: Collaboration and Audience Engagement
01:11:23
Speaker
But you know what I want to get back to is like it's never just one person.
01:11:30
Speaker
And it's always a collaboration, but it's also a huge sacrifice because if you're not willing to give it your all, everyone that else that does is gonna should hopefully if the universe has any like fairness should stand out above you. And
01:11:55
Speaker
That's something I think about a lot because it's like there are people that have probably given way more and hopefully that means that they've gotten further. Because it's not necessarily even about like raw talent. No. As much as it's about like just your dedication. Yeah. Like when we talk about the edit, right? We go from
01:12:19
Speaker
Like we needed those years to also learn and how to become better storytellers and how to really understand things and how to kind of like layer and pace. And that's something we're even still learning and still fine tuning. And, you know, it's going to only hopefully make everything that we do in the future be better. And it's just, but that's, it's so hard to quantify.
01:12:46
Speaker
what's good and what's bad because there's only like, you know, people that are like, why didn't Avatar 2 win Best Picture? Yeah.
01:12:55
Speaker
And those people outnumber us. By a lot. Yeah. By billions in fact. Right? But then it's like, I feel like, you know, and then you, and there are people like, that will be like, oh, you, you know, you're talking about cat people. Like the movie sucks. There's, where are the cats?
01:13:16
Speaker
where they can't people there are no fucking cheetahs in this movie you know or whatever and it's like but like aren't you aren't you getting the subtext like aren't you getting like the like the frustration the the fear and everything that comes from like everything that's like you know surrounding like the uh the beliefs of like these people and like the expectations that were laid on the women and like the fear and the the power of
01:13:42
Speaker
Belief and like all that shit like that is all layered in the movie But it's like also about a movie about a girl. It's afraid she's gonna turn to a fucking cat Yeah Yeah, I mean like what it's like the apartment There is a gunshot in the apartment and it's you know, it happens on accident. Oh, that's right, huh? There's almost there's no action in that movie other than a lot of people fucking in his apartment yeah, but like that's I always come back to that movie because
01:14:12
Speaker
That movie is one of the greatest movies ever made.
Modern vs. Classic Film 'Magic'
01:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, for you. Yeah. There's no competition. The intentions of the filmmaker are felt. The emotions of the actors are felt. And to me, that's like the most important part, and this is what I've been really caring about when I watch movies lately, is how does it make me feel and what can I remember?
01:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, because problem my biggest problem with all the with a lot like as you mentioned you watch a lot of movies like It's a Wonderful Knife and what was the Back to the Future one? Oh Totally killer totally killer and I thought that film was I was funny fun. Yeah, I was fine with it I didn't I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. It was fine. I watched it Actually, that was the only movie I watched in my in the backyard on the screen last year Kiernan Sherpa
01:15:08
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it. But yeah, the girl that she's the new Sabrina in like the I guess they canceled that show. Yeah, I didn't watch it at all. So I don't know if it was any good or not. But what I'm getting to is a lot of these movies, like they just they don't have any emotional resonance.
01:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, at least for me. And like, that is probably more of a personal issue than more than anything. But then I watch movies that give me that make me feel and I'm like, well, these movies are making me feel like the like these ones, like maybe it's because I don't have a certain connection to them or what I think it goes back to what my
01:15:48
Speaker
theory is because, you know, at work we were updating computers. So what we'll do, because we're stuck in one classroom waiting for stuff to update and you know, you know how it is to update a bunch of computers in a room. You're in that room for a long time and we have a big TV. So we'll put on movies. Yeah. So we have something in the background to just just for sound, I guess, more than anything. And I put on the Goonies and I was like,
01:16:18
Speaker
You know, because I remember when the Goonies came out, it was such, such a huge part of the zeitgeist, at least in my family, where it really resonated with them. And even to this day, they still quote the Goonies.
01:16:32
Speaker
And I was like, damn, what's the difference between like the Goonies and that J.J. Abrams film? Eight millimeter? No, that's the other one, Nicolas Cage. What was it called? Eight something. 16 millimeter? Super eight. Super eight.
01:16:50
Speaker
You know, because that's essentially the Goonies in E.T. So what's the difference between that and that? Because I bet you never thought of Super 8 until I mentioned it or if you see it on like a little, you know, video essay. I did try to rewatch Super 8 a few years ago because I'm ever really enjoying it in theaters because I'm such a sucker for movies about making movies. And like half that movie is about them like making a movie. Which is fun, especially at the end credits you get to see it. Yeah.
01:17:18
Speaker
And you're like, that's like all I've ever wanted to do. So I'm like, you know, it has a lot of resonance for me for that. But then also, it's like there is just something lacking. Yeah, why isn't Super 8 the Goonies? But you know what I think it is, is that everything wasn't as commercial as it is now. Everything wasn't as
01:17:42
Speaker
You know, we don't need, a lot of times people won't even say they're films. They'll just say it's content, creating content. You know, it's just about creating something to be consumed. It's not about making a movie and the perspective has changed. You know, it's about the money. It's about the content. It's about hitting diversity quotas. It's about hitting PC quotas. It's about hitting money quotas, right? For the market and all of that.
01:18:07
Speaker
It's about getting your main actor on Jay Leno or, I'm sorry, Jay Leno hasn't done the night show in a long time, but. Ultimately it equates to his money. It's about the money. And of course film has always been about the money, but the filmmakers didn't feel like it was about the money. It felt like they were trying to make a movie within a world where they had to then produce a profit, which is reasonable to ask. And so there's a different heart
01:18:36
Speaker
You know, like the Goonies, they were just trying to make a fun kids movie. Whereas like Super 8, I mean, it feels like just trying to make content. And so many other films, it's like, oh, you're just making this so that when I'm sitting at home, I'll put on Netflix and I'll stream you.
01:18:56
Speaker
And then I'll pay that subscription. I will say this, and this is something, you bring up a good point. I think I have an answer for you about the difference, like an actual concrete answer. No, but I mean, I feel like that, that my theory holds true in that they were just coming at it from a different place and producing something that was different, even though they look similar, you know, like even though McDonald's looks like a hamburger. Shit, man, it ain't no fucking hamburger.
01:19:26
Speaker
Well, one thing I want to say is, and it's, there was, there's a point in history, and it's probably, I want to say it's going to be like, probably like post maybe like 2005 or something where we just started losing
01:19:46
Speaker
that movie magic. And The Goonies was directed, I just confirmed this, and I was proud that I remembered. The Goonies is directed by Richard Donner, who did Superman. And it's heavily produced by Steven Spielberg. It was when Steven Spielberg was doing Poltergeist. He was producing these movies where he was kind of directing, but not directing. Oh, kind of directed The Goonies? Yeah. Oh, wow. And it's like, there were three movies
01:20:12
Speaker
Spielberg had like this influence over and I go on don't worry don't lose me so speak there were three movies right that Steve and it's gonna be poltergeist yeah the Goonies and gremlins
01:20:26
Speaker
Oh, really? These are all heavily produced by Steven Spielberg. Where he almost directed them? Yeah, where he's like the influence of Spielberg and Amblin can be felt. His producing company can really be felt like in this. And they were like, this is like the 80s era where Spielberg was like untouchable.
01:20:49
Speaker
And then you have Super 8, which is coincidentally also produced by Spielberg. No shit. Yes. So directed by JJ Abrams, whose hero is Steven Spielberg, JJ Abrams has been chasing and wanting to be Steven Spielberg as, and I think for the problem is it's like, whereas
01:21:13
Speaker
It's like going from the progenitor to like the next step down where he's a- Imitation. Imitation as opposed- He's AI George Carlin. He's AI George Carlin, whereas he only had a taste of the real deal, right? Richard Donner, Toby Hooper, and Joe Dante. Joe Dante, yeah.
01:21:42
Speaker
Steven Spielberg, like, you know, like he was there on set. He was making sure that that magic was there. Right. Like Gremlins doesn't work without Spielberg. Right. Probably being there. And like, of course, Giordante probably he did a lot of work, but like Giordante fucking hated working on Gremlins, things like that. Yeah. Well, Gremlins too. Right. He hated. Well, he hated Gremlins one too. Yeah. As well. Because of working with all the puppets. It was a huge pain in the ass. Oh, OK.
01:22:10
Speaker
And he was like, I'm never going to do it again. But then he kind of got forced into doing Gremlins 2, I believe. It's a very interesting story, I think. I've heard it before, but I'm getting it. Well, because Poltergeist is a really interesting story as well. Yeah.
01:22:23
Speaker
where it's like, yeah, Toby Hooper, lentoriously, like hard to work with a director. But yeah, the whole thing about like Steven Spielberg, like standing in the water with the main actress when she was like afraid that the lights were going to fall on her and electrocute her. So he got in the water with her. It's like, well, I mean, in regards to Poltergeist, I heard that he really kind of directed that film. Yeah.
01:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, and you hear that like with a lot of things. I've never heard for the other ones. Yeah. I've only heard that for Pultur guys. Definitely. But it's like, you know, like we are entering the generation of filmmakers where it's like, they're, this is like JJ Abrams, right?
Influence of Directors like Tarantino and Spielberg
01:23:04
Speaker
He, you know, he wants to be Steven Spielberg, but he's not Steven Spielberg. And like he needed to find his own identity and not, and not essentially just like make a copy of a copy.
01:23:14
Speaker
And then you have that with like even with even to which Sizelle a little bit where he's like chasing those heroes of his all like old. Like if you watch singing in the rain and then you watch Babylon, you'll be like, what the fuck? Like, why did he make that? Like Babylon is such a weird movie in juxtaposition to seeing in the rain because it's like Babylon is the movie that is like that. It's so weird.
01:23:44
Speaker
Because Babylon is the universe in which singing in the rain came out in the 50s and it's about the same kind of era.
01:24:00
Speaker
it has such a different take where Babylon is far enough away where it's like you can look back and be like, yeah, there were a lot of gross aspects as well. And that kind of muddies the water a bit, right? Because you have all the weird darkness. In Babylon, yeah. Singing in the rain is like,
01:24:20
Speaker
It's mostly pretty- He's still singing in the rain, right? Yeah. He's still dancing in the rain. Yeah. Yeah. And like there's still, it's like pretty much like hyped up and vibey and then there's still like this beautiful magic to the Hollywood scene. Yeah. Which Babylon imitates.
01:24:36
Speaker
But then it's like oh yeah and then we have those like weird Tobey Maguire scenes and then right like. Yeah when it turned into a horror movie like what the fuck. Yeah no one like gets in a bathtub and blows their brains out and seen in the rain.
01:24:52
Speaker
But it's like, you know, like it's like it's really weird, right? It's like we were far enough away from that era where we can look back at the horrors and also we're in an era where everyone wants to only really look at the bad. Well, I think they wanted to be acknowledged because it happened. Right. Right. Everyone wants to acknowledge the horrors. It's time to bear witness to exactly some of this bullshit and.
01:25:16
Speaker
I think a lot of people still want to live in the dream. A lot of people still want to be ignorant to it and just remember the good old days. I don't know if be ignorant, but I would say that certainly, you know, looking at the bad is so fucking depressing. That too. And that was one thing about with Scorsese's movie that I really liked is like,
01:25:42
Speaker
Like, motherfucker did not hold back. And a lot of people are like, he wasn't the right person to tell the story. It should have been... Because he's not. You know, he's fucking Mark Scorsese. I was like, who better to tell the story than... Like, probably the greatest living... Filmmaker. Is he the greatest living filmmaker? He's one of them. He's definitely one of them. Who else? Herzog. Spielberg, I guess.
01:26:10
Speaker
Like of the old guard. Tarantino's a little too young in my opinion, so I won't include him. He is, but I also... But like, I'm really Scott. Yeah. I'm trying to think who else is still alive.
01:26:28
Speaker
And making movies, too, on top of that. Yeah, the thing is, Corsese is still pumping out movies. But, I mean, if you talk about it in that way, Corsese is untouchable, right? Because he's been making movies for, like, 70 years. And, I mean, he's made true masterpieces. True masterpieces. Because, you know, I know it's fun to shit on Tarantino, but, like, he's completely reshaped movies.
01:26:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, I would consider Tarantino more of the, of the, he's like, you said the progenitor of like Chazals and, you know, all these new young directors that are out that, I don't know if Chazal, I wouldn't say Chazal is like, is heavily influenced by
01:27:16
Speaker
Tarantino at all. Oh, no, no, not turned but I mean you see so many directors nowadays who it's like Yeah, you you'd like pulp fiction for you. Pulp fiction is like top five for a good reason. I mean, it's an amazing movie but it's like That's your era, you know and and Tarantino's that progenitor of this new Golden era of cinema that doesn't exist now. I kind of hate it because tearing because uh
01:27:44
Speaker
Too many people cannot write like Tarantino can write. No one can write like Tarantino. Especially dialogue. And I was watching Stretch because I had got that other movie that was kind of like Stretch. And I was like, oh, maybe I should just watch Stretch again, too. And I was watching it and I was like, oh, my God, like Tarantino like ruined. He's kind of ruined movies. In a sense, yeah. Because everyone tries to write like that witty. To be the Tarantino like a bullet train.
01:28:13
Speaker
Yes. Where it's like you're not even hearing, like you're hearing the ghost of Tarantino and like the dialogue. This pale imitation that sounds like Bad Robot. Isn't that interesting? J.J. Abrams is Bad Robot. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is too is like JJ Abrams own success has probably ruined him as an artist to some degree.
01:28:41
Speaker
because so JJ Abrams, so then he becomes really popular and big. So like Steven Spielberg start trying to make movies like JJ Abrams, but JJ Abrams is trying to make Spielberg movies. And then that's how you get like, what's up shitty Spielberg movie with like all the references, a ready player one.
01:29:02
Speaker
like that movie fucking sucks like i don't care what anyone says that movie is hot garbage no it does suck but what is cool to see and you know it's just you know it makes you feel gross it's just seeing the delorean again yeah or seeing um the iron giant right yeah godzilla fight the iron giant or whatever you know and and yeah that pulls
01:29:24
Speaker
You're pulling all that nostalgia and it's disgusting because I like it. Yeah, that's what I hate too is because it's like, you know where they hit me and it fucking sucks. It's so cheap. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's how I feel. Exactly how I feel. Yeah. Because it's like,
01:29:39
Speaker
You know, you know how to fucking pull my heartstrings, you fucking piece of shit. Like, like with Spielberg, you fucking cocksucker. Like, well, people are going to direct the new Indiana Jones. But that new Indiana Jones, it's like when they're playing the indie theme and it's like kind of slow when it builds and it's like, you fucker, you're pulling. Oh, like the commercial, right? You said how much you love the trailer. Yeah, it's like... That's, but you know, that's... And then you see... But then the bad version of that is Star Wars.
01:30:06
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Cause they did that shit. They retold A New Hope and it's like, dude, it's just so disingenuous. Like it's disingenuous. That's the big issue. All of this shit is just so disingenuous. No one's sincere and all the sincere movies are hard to find. You know, no one talks about sincere movies. Like I wasn't a big fan of minus one, but that movie was sincere.
01:30:33
Speaker
Oh, I love minus one. I loved it. And I will fight for that movie forever because you know, I shit on it because she and Godzilla.
01:30:42
Speaker
Which isn't fair, which isn't fair. I'm placing a very unfair bias, but it fucking sucks. But it doesn't suck. But, you know, Shinga, or Minus One, was a very sincere movie. For whatever they were trying to do, it was very sincere. It wasn't coming from a place like, oh, we're going to make tons of money on this, or, oh, this is going to be great on the new platform. Apple Plus, when we get, you know, when they buy us, that wasn't a part of the equation.
01:31:10
Speaker
Yeah. And well, the thing is too is no movie, no Godzilla movie. And there's, I think, I saw that. I think that there's like 38 Godzilla movies or something. Shit. And there's not a single one that has even come close to the original.
01:31:31
Speaker
No. Well, Shin Godzilla, in my opinion. Not to me. The original is still so much better. Because, well, Shin Godzilla also... I think Shin Godzilla is a great sequel. Shin Godzilla is a representation of a different disaster. It is, but I think that's why... And that's its power, right? But it's like a perfect sequel, because where can you go with Godzilla after that, after the original? Like, Aliens. I think Aliens is like a perfect sequel, because it's like, well, where do you go after Alien?
01:31:59
Speaker
And it's like, oh, yeah, go in that direction. That's great. Yes, you made something that I love and I'm so glad I got to see it. Again, the progenitor, I don't know if he can ever...
01:32:14
Speaker
be a progenitor. I don't know if a sequel can ever be better than an original. Like even Empire Strikes Back versus A New Hope, man, A New Hope just has it. And this is just for me, it just has that extra power, man. It has that bit of magic. Yeah. And it is rare. I mean,
01:32:31
Speaker
Because technically, I think you can. It has happened. Subjectively, it can happen. There are sequels that are better than the original. Die Hard. Isn't Die Hard technically a sequel? Because the originals with Frank Sinatra. I don't know. Frank Sinatra played John McClain. Really? Yeah, because John McClain is like a pulp novel. Really? I didn't know that. I know there's like a novel for Die Hard, but everyone says it's terrible. It's a terrible book.
01:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, I'm sure there's stuff like that. But, you know, the go-to is Godfather II versus Godfather. But Godfather is so much better.
01:33:10
Speaker
Godfather is really good but... No, that's a bad way to say it. That's a bad way to word it. It's definitely not like... That's a very bad way to word it. The thing with Godfather is it's like there are two masterpieces that are headbutting each other with like... And then there's a third one which is like... It's like some kind of like inbred stepchild. Oh, Francis Ford Coppola being a great living...
01:33:32
Speaker
Director but he I mean he hasn't made anything. I move that fucker made Jack since uh Ram Stoker although he wants to do that make Opolis Yeah, and that he's self-funded Josh, and I were talking about that today actually so we'll see we'll see maybe that'll bring him into the conversation who releases their film first the Coppola or us Because Megalopolis has been in production for over ten years. Hey, that's a good competition
01:33:57
Speaker
But I mean, I like Francis Ford Coppola because he's done a lot for film like a
Classic Directors' Evolution
01:34:01
Speaker
zoetrope. Yeah. And then the magazine and he really tries to help filmmakers get out there and films. Well, he didn't even really want to direct a lot of the movies. Like he didn't want to direct Godfather. Oh, really? He wanted Martin Scorsese to direct. Wow. And Scorsese. Could you imagine that? Wow. And Scorsese was, I think he made, he made something else instead.
01:34:24
Speaker
And so he had to end up taking the reins and directing it himself. He wanted George Lucas to direct Apocalypse Now. And Lucas was like, I'm making this movie called Star Wars, so I can't do it. I think George made the right choice, even though Apocalypse Now is probably one of the greatest movies ever made. But Star Wars is as well. That's an interesting question. Here's this. What's better, Star Wars or Apocalypse Now?
01:34:51
Speaker
I mean, socially, culturally, obviously it has to be Star Wars. There's really nothing, no movie probably bigger than Star Wars, honestly. Yeah, I'm not gonna show Luke apocalypse now until he's like 15. No, of course not. Luke and I have watched Star Wars already, right? But what's like... Apocalypse Now is a better movie. Who wins? Who wins in the fight of cinema, the cinema battleground? Apocalypse Now. It has to.
01:35:19
Speaker
The issue with Apocalypse Now is it's one of those, it's like, it's in that Blade Runner category. It's in the editing, right? Where it's like, motherfucker did not leave it alone. Like, which, like, there's so many different versions and each version kind of changes it. Yes. Well, I saw. To a great degree. I saw Apocalypse Now Redux.
01:35:40
Speaker
That's the newest one or there's like a final redux. I think it's the second to newest, but that was a very good cut of it. And I think, yeah, and it's like, that's one thing with these filmmakers that like George cannot leave his fucking movies alone. Copa look, cannot leave his movies alone, right? Ridley Scott, how many- Hey, why are you talking shit on them? We're still gonna come up with dickhead read.
01:36:08
Speaker
We're not making dickhead redux. I could see us actually like doing like just like doing like an evil dead thing where like we just remake dickhead.
01:36:20
Speaker
Will Matt go man it? Yeah. Um, but you know, like, I think that's the thing about these filmmakers when they make a masterpiece is that they can't leave them alone. Well, probably because they were like us, they had to settle with shit they didn't want to settle on. Yeah. Except we made Dickhead and they made Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, you know, and it's like, nah, dude, walk away. You won that one. You won that fight. Don't worry. Yeah. Although the, they have made them better.
01:36:51
Speaker
Yeah, which is crazy to think about but there is actually like Well, I heard the best version of blade runner is with the um the narration but also The longer version and the alternate ending where it's not oh, I think the best one is without narration personally I've only seen that one without net without. Mm-hmm
01:37:16
Speaker
I think that was the best one. Blade Runner is so hard because I think there's literally like six different cuts of it. Yeah. Well, I don't know how many for sure, but I know there's at least four because there's at least four. But I will say the one that I've seen at least two that I know of, but the one that I think is the best is the one with the unicorn origami with no voiceover.
01:37:44
Speaker
because, uh, honestly, they've actually all been better. The only one who really made it worse was George Lucas. Yes. Right. Cause like apocalypse. Now the version I saw it was like fucking great. Yeah.
01:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, Pockups now is really good, but it's also based on one of the best novels, Hard Darkness. And it's a story that's been told over and over. The guy that has to go up and discover who he is, wow. I think I have two or three copies of that book and I've never read it. It is so short. I don't even know if it's a novella. I don't even think it's a novel.
Kubrick's Thematic Depth
01:38:23
Speaker
I remember reading it in high school. Yeah. I've never been able to get through it. But it's pretty good, right? Well, yeah, it's one of the greatest books. Yeah. And I think they've actually made Heart of Darkness, the movie with Vel Kilmer was in it. Oh, really? Yeah. I know he's in The Ghost in the Darkness. Oh, Ghost in Darkness, which...
01:38:42
Speaker
I don't know if that's a remake. That's all. Both of the darkness is about a true story, in fact. About them going to hunt like The Last White Lion or some shit, right? No, it's where the lions go psycho and they're killing all the people. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. It's a great movie. But yeah.
01:39:03
Speaker
Damn, we really went off on that one, huh? That's why I said, I think there's a lot to talk about, man. It's been a while. There's always a lot to talk about. It's been a while and this is like one of our only outings. That's true. It's like the only time I can really like just like truly relax and just talk about the things I care about. When I'm at work and I'm just like, have you guys ever heard of cat people? Like what the fuck comes at it again? People are always like, you're really in the movies, aren't you? And I'm just like, where's Steven?
01:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, right, that I actually know cat people. I was like, Tom, you got cat people? I've been wanting to watch that. Yeah.
01:39:40
Speaker
And it's like, you're excited to watch it? Like I wouldn't have to like talk you into watching Blade Runner. You know, my, my, my mentor also told me about a film worth watching, but it's more art world. I think it's called Bucket of Blood. Yes, of course. Bucket of Blood. Yeah. Directed by Roger Corman. Okay. Well, there we go. Did you like it? It's okay. It's like, it's like, it's about the art world, right? Wait, am I thinking of Bucket of Blood or let me see, which maybe that's not the right title.
01:40:10
Speaker
You know me. Because Bucket of Blood is directed by Roger Corman. Yeah. Yeah. It's about the art world. Yeah. Yeah. He said if you want a perfect depiction of what the art world is truly like, watch Bucket of Blood. Yeah. It's one of the movies that kind of started off like The Grindhouse. Oh, no shit. Mm hmm.
01:40:34
Speaker
Well, I think it's, or it used to be for free on YouTube. So anyone, if you want to check it out. Most Roger Corman productions and film, which, you know, interesting enough, Roger Corman is the one that gave Coppola his shot at making movies. Well, he gave tons of people. Like almost everybody. Yeah. And then the thing that's cool is like, then Coppola followed that up and like gave a bunch of people their shot. But was that Roger Corman before he was,
01:41:00
Speaker
Roger corman as he's well known now because uh bucket of blood I believe is well, I just looked up his 1959 so it's it's pretty early corman and then Roger corman mostly then became like a producer and then just kind of directed a few things like he made like his own star wars he's made like roger corman made like everything like every like b like movie you've made is probably his fingerprints are there it's so cool how he has that like
01:41:29
Speaker
that thumbprint on so many things. Like, that's pretty fucking cool. But no one would know. Unless you know movies, you really wouldn't know. Yep. And you're, yeah, exactly. I guess like Tarantino, right? Except Tarantino's making Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, his latest film, you know. But that thumbprint just there, and it's gonna echo for at least a few more decades. And that's where I gotta give it to Tarantino is,
01:41:57
Speaker
He's not gonna, he's not like, oh, I'm completely original. He's like, no, I got that from this movie. I got that from this movie. He's never claimed that. I've never heard him say anything like that. Like, oh, it's all me, it's all me or any shit like that. That's what I love. Cause he, his love of film is so infectious.
01:42:14
Speaker
And that's what it's like. Oh, he's one of us like he's just one of us and he just you know, he put in the work and he put it in and he has the memory and the knowledge to be able to like Well, I'll say it all together. He's got one more film in him And You know, I worry that
01:42:38
Speaker
I mean, I'm sure it'll come along again, but that's like the last filmmaker where it's like, oh shit, he's coming out with another film. Like there's, I mean, I get excited. I remember leading up to Once Upon a Time, how excited I was. And I was like, oh my God, another Tarantino film. And I think I placed an unfair bias on it, you know, cause he's got to live to such a high bar.
01:43:02
Speaker
And he really never fails? No, not even close. You know, he really doesn't ever fail reaching that bar. He might not lift it as high as you want him to. He might not raise it. But he's definitely doing the rep, right? He's like, I got one. The thing I will say is, if your worst movie is deathproof, you're doing really fucking well for yourself. That's true. And I love deathproof. Deathproof's a lot of fun.
01:43:28
Speaker
And I know, because a lot of people are like, after Kill Bill, his movies all suck. And I'm like, get the fuck out of here. Like, Django Unchained is awesome. Who says that? A lot of people, like, a lot of people have been coming down on him lately. Because I've heard tons of people say, like, Inglorious Bastards is their favorite. Django is their favorite.
01:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, because I've heard there's a lot of hate for Hateful Eight, which I don't get. And in my opinion, I think that's his magnum opus, is that what they call it? Yeah. I mean, really his greatest film is Pulp Fiction.
01:44:02
Speaker
Yes, Pulp Fiction is his greatest film. His greatest film. But I think Hateful Eight is like peak, peak, like, yes, you have mastered the craft. You are master filmmaker. Here we go. Pulp Fiction is a movie that it's like I can just pick scenes from that movie and play them in my head like on repeat. There's one. And it's also one of those movies every time it's on. I'm sitting down, I'm watching it. There's this. If I see it on streaming, I'm sitting down, I'm watching it.
01:44:31
Speaker
There's a shot in Pulp Fiction that I absolutely love, and it's when Butch is sneaking back into his apartment, and it's this tracking shot following from behind him, and it's like the camera jumps over a fence. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that scene, yeah. Yeah. That's right before the car accident. Yes. Dude, see how that movie's just ingrained. Yeah. And I'm just like, there's nothing particularly
01:44:57
Speaker
Exciting. Exciting. I love how but I love how real it is. Exactly. Yes, it's like it is just it was like they were a gorilla shooting. Yes, exactly. And it's like, OK, this is like Butch trying to sneak into his house because he got to get he has to get the fucking watch. Right. And there's been this build up.
01:45:15
Speaker
about him needing to get this watch. I mean, I know like if we ever get to the criterion list again, it is on the list and we'll talk about it, but like he has to go and get his father's watch, right? If you've never seen Pulp Fiction, like how are you listening to our podcast? Yeah, that's like mandatory. There are only like five mandatory films to listen to this podcast. It's like you need to have watched Alien, the thing. Pulp Fiction. Yeah. And there's probably two others.
01:45:45
Speaker
Come and see. Like, please go watch Come and See. It is free on YouTube. No shit. There is a cut on YouTube. Like, it's a subtitled cut. Just go and fucking watch Come and See. It's free on YouTube. You know, no one really ever talks about Come and See. That's the craziest thing. Yeah. People know about it. Cinephiles know about it, but no one ever talks about it. I don't get it. Well... Too real? It's too real. Well, you talk about challenging films, right? Jesus Christ.
01:46:14
Speaker
I still remember the first time I watched, I was like, ah, fuck. I didn't want to watch it, so I was drinking whiskey. And I was like, oh, fuck, what am I watching? She's like, oh, it's the whiskey getting to me, isn't it?
01:46:28
Speaker
Man, that film. I remember... Especially the start of it, it's so rough, right? It's just like, what the fuck is this? I remember thinking like, yeah, because you're like, what is this? It's like... It's like, oh god, I'm watching like fucking autistic kids find a gun in the dirt. But then at the end, it's like, holy shit. Are you for real? Right, because it's a movie that... Because a lot of people...
01:46:54
Speaker
like we'll watch Saving Private Ryan. And Matt Damon's kid was like, I wanna fight for America, yeah. But then you don't get to see the scene where like everyone's getting burned alive in a building and they're trying to decide how they're gonna kill the Nazis. And then, you know, the character, he's just standing there like shooting pictures of Hitler.
01:47:17
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I don't know. That's the difference between come and see and like Private Ryan. When you finish watching Private Ryan, you're like, yeah, let's go kill those Nazis. And, you know, you're buying into the propaganda, you know, like fight the evil. But when you watch come and see, it's like, let's kill some fucking Nazis because I fucking hate them. But also when you watch and it's just so dark, it's like this dark.
01:47:40
Speaker
A hateful film that... The thing about the end of Come and See, it's not even like, let's go fight the Nazis. It's just like, Jesus Christ war is so awful. No, I know. I know, it's just... We shouldn't even fight the Nazis because there shouldn't be Nazis. Well, of course. There's no excuse for humans to do this because we collectively agree that like,
01:48:07
Speaker
hurting each other is probably bad, I would hope. Well, no, they don't, collectively. That's the problem, that's the problem, right? I mean, I love USC, look at USC, it's about damage. But it's like, I guess that's true, it's like if you live in reality, then necessity is...
01:48:25
Speaker
We're still those fucking monkeys in 2001, man. We are that different. And we're America, we got the biggest stick. And that's why that's one of the greatest match cuts in history, is because the bone becomes the nuke.
01:48:40
Speaker
And the thing is, which is bad on Kubrick because I had no idea what that fucking shit was. I had to research it on Wikipedia and I'm like, oh, that's what that thing is. Yeah. No idea. That's what that is. That's true. But it's still I mean, the representation even is just like the OK, you got to be Kubrick level intelligence to understand. Oh, the bone is a nuke now. Well, not even that necessarily it's a nuke, but it's like technology. That's literally what it's technology. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:49:06
Speaker
Like, the bone becomes the ship, because the bone was the tool. And fuck, if I ever understood the obelisk was making people... Making things until... Yeah. So much of that movie flew over my head, but it's by Kubrick, so... It's still masterful. Like he argued, it's like the film is a cinematic experience. It's not a narrative storyline. Oh, that's what his... Okay, then, Kubrick, you won again.
01:49:36
Speaker
And that's why it's one of the greatest movies ever. It's because it's... Yeah, 2001's gotta be... Although, God, man, strange love of his films. Well, you know, I think I rewatched... I think it was last year I watched it because I was just like, I was feeling real down about movies. So you watched Dr. Strange Love? Because every now and then I'll do that. I'm just like, man, I just watched like John Wick and I'm like, I don't want to watch a good movie. It kind of...
01:50:07
Speaker
It just, it kind of destroys your love for cinema a little bit, right? Watching all these bad movies, like, man, I need a- It's soulless movies. Is this an art form? Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes, it is. And then I watched and I'm like, because I was watching Strange Love, and...
01:50:25
Speaker
Um, the scene that I love, I just love it. It's so goddamn, it's so goddamn good. And it's probably the scene that people are like, Oh, is it the, you know, the big board? Is it the, this is the war room. There's no fighting in the war room. No, it's when, uh, uh,
01:50:43
Speaker
Uh-huh. Your favorite scene, huh? It's just this, the way that, I love the way that Kubrick plays with mirrors. And it's that scene where, um, Hurling stayed in, uh, Jack, Jesus, this J.M.B. Hurling stayed, who the Jesus stayed in? Uh, fuck, the, the general. Oh, when he's in bed with the woman, that's not his wife.
01:51:10
Speaker
Was that Peter Sellers' character? No. No, he's in bed with his wife, right? Peter Sellers, yeah, because he gets a phone call for the base. It's not him. No, no, no, but is that the general you're talking about? The one who goes crazy? No. Which one? There's so many, I don't know, they're different positions. God, what is his name? Oh, George C. Scott. George C. Scott, yes. He's in bed with his wife, isn't he? It's not his wife, it's his mistress.
01:51:37
Speaker
Oh, it's his mistress. I thought that was his wife. No, yes, it's his mistress. Yes, that's who I meant. Yeah, you're right. It's not Peter's. And he's getting the call. And that scene is so fucking perfect. And you're just like, God, every little aspect of this, like the way the camera moves or doesn't move and the framing and and it's like, you know, and he's like, you know, like, you know,
01:52:03
Speaker
It's the perfect satire. It's literally the perfect satire. Yes, exactly. Like the greatest actors. I mean, George C. Scott, come on, man. And the name, Strange Love, which is kind of interesting because the whole movie's about like... But also it's like Strange Glove on our string glove, right? Yeah. Because you have the minefield with his strange glove. Yeah. But what I love too is...
01:52:26
Speaker
It's about a bunch of powerful men that are just gonna have a harem of women that they have to repopulate. And then it's like, maybe it's not, maybe the apocalypse isn't so bad. Yeah, I know, right? That's the way it is. That's a happy ending. And then the world is destroyed. And it's like, what the fuck? Well, the most iconic scene from that film has to be the, where he's riding the nuke down. Yeah. And I mean, what a great, what a great shot, right? Just sitting on the nuke.
01:52:56
Speaker
writing it down to the enemy. Granted, that's such the cliche, but when you think about it, what a fucking shot. What a setup for that. Strange Love is so good. I think that's his best film. Hands down, yeah. In my opinion, that's his best film. Hands down. From the start to the end. It's a challenging movie.
01:53:24
Speaker
It is, but it's still, it's so funny and fun. Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's just pitch perfect, man. And then it makes you, I mean, watch one film, watch Dr. Strangelove, man. You'll be a better filmmaker all the way around. Oh yes, you will. Study that film. Like, I mean, yeah, study Citizen Kane too, but Strangelove, like shit. Well, I think the thing that makes Strangelove so good
01:53:54
Speaker
is how close it as a pair as like as a satire that it touches to reality still to this day sadly yeah unfortunately but also the thing that is so good about it it's like every piece of the film is working together to like
01:54:17
Speaker
make the film just like a better complete whole. I imagine people are like when he's like going through like the emergency kit and he's like two pieces of chewing gum, four sticks of beef jerky or whatever, one bayonet and it's like
01:54:39
Speaker
Why is he reading this to everybody? But it's also just so military. It's such a thing that the military would have him do. Did Kubrick ever serve? No. Of course not, dude. He's a fucking coward.
01:54:55
Speaker
He was a fucking afraid of flying. What a bitch. Well, he loves soldiers, right? I mean, you got Spartacus, you got- Well, he was- Paths of Glory, you got- He always talked about- Metal jacket. The necessity of war.
01:55:14
Speaker
So he felt like it was an evil necessity. I think he really didn't believe humans are still those monkeys from 2001. Oh, without a doubt. And he's like, we haven't really moved that far. I think that's kind of the whole point of 2001. Exactly. And then maybe humans evolve at the end.
01:55:36
Speaker
Well, I like the argument that the most human character in 2001 is Hal. Why is that? Because Hal essentially like his whole thing is like Bowman and the other character are like they're kind of robotic in their emotions and like they just go through the same routine every day where Hal's like trying to figure out like
01:56:00
Speaker
What it is to be human and he actually lies and cheats and he murders like he's like the most human character in the movie and some to some degree. That's interesting. He's like manipulative and all this stuff. And a human through their growth too. Like from birth and of consciousness to then his death.
01:56:20
Speaker
Exactly. And his death in the film is... It's such a sad death, man. It's so basic, but... They're stripping away everything that is him until he's nothing. Yeah, he's like, I feel it fading away, Dave. Right? It was Dave? Yeah. Dave, what are you doing? Yeah, Dave Bowman. I can't remember what the other guy's name is. Like, Dave, don't stop. Yeah. And then he's describing his death as like...
01:56:46
Speaker
Yeah, and he's like, there's a song I used to, you know, be saying when I was being programmed. And it's like him, right? It's right. It's like if you were talking to someone, it's like when I was a boy, like, this is what was sung to me as a child. That's super interesting. I never saw it that way. That's really interesting. Yeah. Because I mean, Hal's voice is so monotone, so, you know, you don't get the inflection of emotion there. It's like unless you really pay attention, you don't notice, but he cheats during their chess game.
01:57:15
Speaker
He does, right? But Dave calls him out on it, doesn't he? Yeah, and it's like he shouldn't be able to do that kind of thing. Which is how I play chess, because I don't really know a lot of the rules. Yeah, and it's just really interesting in that kind of respect, because it's like... Yeah, that is really interesting to think of that perspective on that film. See, that's the thing with so many of Kubrick's films, you can watch them time and time again,
01:57:42
Speaker
And there's so many different perspectives to see of what the film is. And you're not really wrong. Yeah, exactly. And you weren't wrong before. It's just a new lens in which to view it through. And I would say his most challenging film isn't even 2001. I think it's A Clockwork Orange. Why is that? Because A Clockwork Orange
01:58:06
Speaker
I think your interpretation tells a lot about yourself and how you kind of feel about your perspective place in society because Clockwork Orange is like, I think there are some people that come out feeling almost sympathetic towards Alex, which is very strange because he's a violent rapist and a murderer. But also it's like he's like through
01:58:33
Speaker
manipulation of the government. He has gone through essentially mind control and like complete like behavioral modification and where it's like what the government wants is to test prisoners out for, you know, to change like their
01:58:56
Speaker
to control people and to make them what they want as like the good citizen and like what does it mean to
01:59:07
Speaker
Like have your own personality and like your own life.
Film as a Reflection of Human Nature
01:59:11
Speaker
And like, did society make Alex the way he was? Or is it a product of who he is? Cause it's like, there's- And then should that be can then control, right? Should you control the monster? Exactly. And like, also it's like, well, you don't condone his actions, but look at the- But you also don't condone the actions to control, you know- There's that. And then also- The damnation.
01:59:36
Speaker
The thing that's interesting about it too is like, you're never like, I don't think you're ever supposed to be sympathetic towards Alex, but it's like- But he also has a charm. So that gives you a natural sympathy towards him. Yeah, but cause you also have to like juxtapose that he's a child, right? Oh, cause he's like a teenager, right? He's 15 or 16.
02:00:02
Speaker
Well, is that how old he's supposed to be in the movie? Yeah. Damn, shit, they really aged fast in the future, huh? Right? Cause it's like, he's like 15, 16. And like, I think there's a lot of like implications. I remember that scene where it's like showing him in his room for the day and then it fast forward and he's like banging the chicks. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. And it's like, when he gets out of the behavioral modification, right?
02:00:27
Speaker
No, that's before. Well, I thought that was after. No, it's before. Okay. And it's right before he gets caught, essentially, before he goes in and does the singing in the rain thing. And then singing in the rain of all the movies. Yeah. And it's like, God damn, dude. Yeah, you know, because I'm not a like, I don't know, rape in films just really. That's always a tough watch for me.
02:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, of course, but you know like the trigger films like I'm not really a trigger warning person, but that one's like But damn man if Kubrick didn't do that but for lack of a better word tastefully You know like it has a reason to be in there
02:01:11
Speaker
Well, I think that's why I hate when people are trying to censor old films. I'm fine with trigger warnings or warning people about the content of films. Yeah, I think that's fine. I mean, like the parental guidance, whatever that is, right, with the PG. I mean, I'm fine with that.
02:01:35
Speaker
Right. Like, cause that's like a trigger warning a little bit, right? Like if you don't want to see something too graphic, don't watch Rated R. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's a reason we have rating systems because it's like you, you should know going in what, what like, especially like for families, like, like what to expect. There's certain movies you don't want to watch with families, but I think,
02:01:56
Speaker
film should not really shy away from these things because it is a part of being human. It's an unfortunate aspect of being human, but unfortunately it's a very real human thing. Humans do what humans do and they're monkeys.
02:02:16
Speaker
We really haven't gone that far. We're still, we're not that far from being afraid of the leopard. Yeah, I mean, that's why it's such a beautiful cut, right? Because we're still the monkeys with the bone, except we have less fur and the bones floating in space now. And the sadness is we think we're so much, so further ahead. So sophisticated from that. That's the arrogant, there's like a human arrogance. That's the hubris, right? Yeah, hubris, exactly, that's a perfect word for it. And, because I was thinking about it, because I read like, probably like one of the saddest
02:02:45
Speaker
It's like stories I've ever heard. And I was like, this would make like one of the most haunting short films ever. So do tell there was a story about a man that he's like a he was like a single father.
02:03:02
Speaker
And he was in his forties and he had a two-year-old son and he had a heart attack and he died. The dad. The dad. And no one came and checked for like a few weeks and they found the toddler dead because he had starved to death because he was a toddler, he doesn't know how to feed himself. And they found him curled up in the arms of the dead father. And the father had been dead for a few days before the toddler had died.
02:03:28
Speaker
And that's a real story. That's a real story. And a social worker that was doing checks to make sure like everything was okay. Cause he had to get clear signs that he was having heart troubles. And so like they were supposed to be doing like these routine checks, but it was like a week or two weeks or something in between the checks, which was enough time for the, unfortunately for the toddler to, you know, die of starvation.
02:03:54
Speaker
And I was like, could you imagine that short film where it's like, it's like from the perspective of the toddler. Like I imagine shooting it. I imagine shooting it. Making like the Rugrats cartoon. Almost like, yeah, shoot it in black and white. And it's like the whole time there's just this heavy presence of like the dead father. And it's like that's awful. Right. And it's like, I was just reading the story and I was like, I don't know, man, that's a tough one. And I was thinking, right, like, but that it's such a, like just hearing the story, I was just like,
02:04:24
Speaker
That could happen. Like that happened. Jesus Christ. That's what happens when babies aren't taken care of. They will die. And it's like parents. And it was such a fucking tragedy. It's like, God damn, it just, when I read that, I didn't even finish reading the article. Cause I was like, there's just,
02:04:40
Speaker
There's no good outcome to the story. It's already over. Yeah, there's this is just like the saddest thing I've ever because like, you know, like, dude, why don't you do this? That'd be good. I mean, I don't know if I'd watch it. I wouldn't want to watch it. I'll help you make it, though. Exactly. I wouldn't want to watch it, but fuck would it hit you?
02:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, it hit me. I mean, I know I was just reading that Hemingway story, right? The uh, if you can make someone cry with two sentences or whatever, right where it's um What is it newborn shoes never worn? Yeah What are you shot yourself Yeah, I just remember thinking like I was just reading that and I was like
02:05:27
Speaker
I mean, maybe that's like a fucked up part of me where I was like, that would make a good movie. Or that would make a powerful film, I guess. But that's what films are supposed to be, right? Cause I mean, let's be real, films are this generations are this new age of books. You know, no one who reads nowadays, no one fucking reads, but we watch movies and that's how you can reach people now is through visual, through visual media.
02:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, you should, man. Maybe you should really work on that one. Maybe that should be your next film. Yeah, because I was like, well, functionally, it would be kind of easy to shoot. And as a parent, I mean, you would have a deeper insight the most, you know, you'd be able to really hit that true nerve. Yeah. But then what's the point? What are you trying to do? What's the ultimate outcome? Just, oh, hey, I just made something.
02:06:24
Speaker
I think the ultimate outcome is like, like what's the, what's the purpose? What would be your purpose? I think my part of the purpose to me, the thing that stuck out is like, there isn't like some kind of like overarching thing watching over us.
02:06:50
Speaker
Like shit, just bad things like this just happen. And there's no one really to blame for it. Because I was thinking, it's like, do we blame the social worker? Do we blame the father for not going and getting health checks? Do we blame the mother of the child for not checking in on them having a baby? Or the baby for not being more clever?
02:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Learning how to, you know, like find the Cheerios or whatever. Because I was thinking like in the shot of the movie, like, like there'd be like an Amazon delivery where someone's like knocking on the door and like the toddler is like at the door, but it doesn't know how to answer the door kind of thing. It's like, I'm hungry. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think just because it's like, you got to figure out that ultimate angle. And that's interesting that pure nihilistic perspective where
02:07:41
Speaker
Yes, you're outraged or you're moved emotionally, but there's no point in being moved because there's no point. Exactly. Or not that there's no point, but that there's nothing to be upset about because that is simply nature.
02:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. That's hard to convey. That'd be a hard one to convey. That's why it's tough because there's a thing that I've always liked where it's like nature doesn't give a shit. Well, no. Nature will drown a baby as fast as it drowns an adult. But see the problem with that.
02:08:14
Speaker
Cause your story could have like a positivity to it. Whereas when you say nature doesn't give a shit, your anthropomorphizing nature. That's true. Right. It doesn't, it doesn't not give a shit either. Nature doesn't have that aspect to it. Exactly. It just is. So, you know, the positive ending or that kind of happy ending is the sense that yeah, it's a tragedy, but at the same time,
02:08:40
Speaker
Like you said, who do you be mad at? There's no one to really be mad at. And there's a positivity in that, like let go of that emotion. But of course, it's an emotionally impactful. Yeah, man, that'd be really, you should, I think you should.
02:08:56
Speaker
Consider that, because that'd be a really difficult film to write. Because who wants to watch that? Well, obviously. Well, I want to see that. There's power to it. But to convey that perspective, that'd be real tricky. How do you convey that? Because you could do the sob story, like, the baby's dead. And of course, that's sad, but that's too cheap. That's too easy to do it in a perspective where
02:09:25
Speaker
It just is as simple and as cruel as that is, you know? I was also, because I was like, my mind immediately jumps to like, you can almost make it almost cheap in the sense where it's like, he dialed 911, but he didn't hit send. If only the baby hit send. No, that's true. But it's like, you gotta find, because I'm like, man, how do you do that?
02:09:52
Speaker
Cause in my head I was just like, this is like one of the most, cause the reason why to me it's so fucked up is because it, like you said, it's just the nature of reality. Like sometimes. What can you be? Who can you, there's not, yes, you're upset, but there's nothing to be upset at. Yeah. You're upset at of the event that occurred, but you can't direct, there's no way to direct it.
02:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a it's like so you got to let it go. Yeah, exactly. It's like if this is a horrible tragedy and like maybe we there's a lesson to be learned here. I don't even think you put a lesson.
02:10:30
Speaker
No, no, I'm just saying, but like just. Well, I'm just saying in the context. But like in the reality and right. We should maybe like, you know, check in on people a little more. Well, yeah, I mean, like there's like this shouldn't happen. And we need to figure out how to make that happen. But that's what like. So within nature, I mean. Right. Like we can't be birds are falling out of the sky because their bellies are filled with so much plastics that they can't digest enough food. But even then it's like you can't be mad at the tiger for eating the baby seal.
02:10:59
Speaker
Or like, have you ever seen like the Komodo dragon videos? I've seen enough nature to know how, I've seen hyenas trying to rip off an elephant's dick, baby elephant's dick. Like one of the most horrific things is Komodo dragons because they will, they are really attracted to pregnant deers. Oh wow. Because they like to rip out the babies while they're like in the womb. And it's like, can you imagine something more fucked up than that? Like, goddamn.
02:11:27
Speaker
Like the animal kingdom is pretty goddamn brutal. Fucking like bacteria and shit like the the prion. Have you heard of you've heard of those, right? The prions or whatever they are in the brain, the brain. Yeah. Just what they put the animal through our fungus. But, you know, maybe maybe the perspective could be the dad's already dead and you just always see like his feet kind of sticking out. But then it's the baby going through its every day. Yeah.
02:11:58
Speaker
And then at the end, it's like, Oh, shit. It just crawls into his arms. And then you understand like, Oh, wait. No. Yeah. This. Oh, and then like cascades into that end.
02:12:14
Speaker
Cause the sad thing is I'm like, the more I'm thinking about the reality of the situation, I'm like, his diaper probably like is overflowed. No, you put that man. And it's like, Jesus Christ. But see only a parent would know that too, right? Like the reality of like, yeah, you gotta change those diapers pretty often or else that shit's overflowing. Cause the kid, they won't like,
02:12:34
Speaker
They'll be uncomfortable and they'll cry and whine about it. And then you show the kid crying because and then you realize like, oh, it's crying because the diaper needs to be changed and the caca is like starting to bother its body. Oh, man. Right. Like, God damn it. Honestly, I think you do. That's.
02:12:52
Speaker
That's something, man. Because I was thinking, like, that's powerful, but I'm like, I don't even know if I could put myself through that. Like, who's like. But that's why it's you're the perfect person, because you don't you don't want to put yourself through it. So you would figure out how to do it right, how to do it right. Ah, man, I you know, of all your ideas you've mentioned, I think that's that's the one you go for. Yeah, but not a feature.
02:13:18
Speaker
No, that's what I was saying. Not a feature, no. That's too much. No, you would not watch that for a feature. That's just too much. But yeah, man, I think that's what you should really go with. You, Tom Casper, were indirect by who you're gonna cast in that. Well, I got a kid, you got kids. It ain't hard to find the actor. Yeah, but that's the scary thing is like,
02:13:47
Speaker
I don't know. Like I think if doing something like that would change you. Like that's like some come and see shit. Yeah. Well, no, cause you're not going to put the kid through it. No, no, no. But like just the, you as a director. Well then good. As it should. True. Every film should. That would be. Cause then you'll see through the bullshit. It wasn't, you weren't doing it for the money or for the.
02:14:09
Speaker
Notoriety like fuck that probably that could hurt you if anything, you know fucking doing that Yeah, oh definitely. You just what you would have to do is figure out a smart script to convey such a Because there would be no dialogue obviously. Yeah to convey a very simple but also complexed
02:14:31
Speaker
matter, right? It's like zero. Zero's a very easy thing to conceive of, but like, how do you really express it? It's impossible to express absolute nothingness, right? So yeah, that would take some real effort to get that into a script, but if you could manage that. Yeah.
02:14:55
Speaker
Damn, dude, this is just my opinion from a drunk father, but man, I think that that should be your next short man. Yeah, because I remember just reading the story and I was like, I don't want this to be real, which I guess would be a reason to film it because like the audience, the viewers would be like, please, this can't be real, but then it's real.
02:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, because you've got to have a message, but no message too. There can't be a message. The message is that there is no message, but you've got to convey it in a way that's understandable, just the nihilistic perspective of things. But in the negative, it's a negative, but then it's positive because there's nothing to direct towards. So then what do you do if you can't direct the anger or the sadness or anything towards anything? Well, then you've got to let it go.
02:15:51
Speaker
Which has its positiveness to it, right? Like to accept that. Yeah, shit's bad. So that's why you just say dark jokes and have this gallo sense of humor. Cause there is something about, I don't want to make sure I'm using this word right, but like the banality
02:16:11
Speaker
been all here. Um, I've looked that word up a couple of times. How if I know what it is, I barely learned what hubris was is on originality. Yeah. I don't know if that's the word for you. No, but I want to try to think of like there's shit because like when it's a directed
02:16:35
Speaker
Action like when a person goes into a school and like shoots up like a bunch of kids Right. Like uh-huh. It's like we can like we can point so many fingers Yeah, yeah, like oh, why was this that right? It's like there's someone to blame There's something again. There's that direction you can blame it you can target on right thing But there's something about just the absolute
02:17:02
Speaker
uncaring nature and the reality and the innocence of a baby is They're so innocent. They can't even take care of themselves Yeah, and it's like it's just so heartbreaking that they're so innocent. They don't even know that if they don't eat they'll die. Mm-hmm
02:17:23
Speaker
Damn, Tom. Yeah, right. No, that's that's something that's something for you, man. That's that's really I will. I hope I seriously hope I know. I don't think we got into that script for you to write. But I hope that'll be your next project, and I would love to help you on that. That's that's something that's something powerful. Yeah, I just think it's like.
02:17:50
Speaker
Anyone that watched that would just be ripped apart. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to be responsible for that, I guess. That's a fear of mine. It's like, but then it's like, that's also. Well, that's why I think you gotta, that's what I'm saying. I think you gotta be real. But that's what I'm saying. I think you gotta have that reason. You're talking about nihilism, which is the absence of reason. Yeah. So, but you gotta have a reason because you're dealing with people who
02:18:18
Speaker
who don't exist in nihilism. You can say the universe is nihilistic, but for us individually, we are not nihilism. Correct. So that's why it's so hard to convey. There's no reason, but there is a reason. And you gotta find out what the reason is while also depicting no reason.
02:18:45
Speaker
Well, I mean, the reason is that... It's sad. It's powerful. What's the reason? It's that sometimes there is just absolute tragedy, right? I don't know how else to put it. Sometimes shit happens, but... Bad shit happens for no reason? That's so...
02:19:10
Speaker
If you're going to put someone through that, that's so fucking lame. But it's also just like existence is complete is suffering, you know, like the whole Buddhist thing, like just I don't even know if that's even the point, though. The point is that. But that's what I'm saying. Like, that's that's that's what you got to figure out is that perspective. And if you can figure out what that answer is, well, then the script will naturally present itself to you.
02:19:35
Speaker
Well, there isn't even really a script. But the story, like, okay, this is the perspective, this is what's happening, this is how to convey it, like, and how to convey it. Yeah.
02:19:46
Speaker
Because I don't even know. That's a tough one. That's an IQ above me, man. I'm just thinking, even just to think, how would you even shoot that? See the difference? I'm the monkey with the bone. You're being the monkey in space with the duke. And it's like, I can't. But the problem is, there's not that big of a separation. Exactly. That's the thing, right? That's the thing. Right, exactly. It's like, no matter. There is something about that.
02:20:16
Speaker
no matter how far we advance or how far that we believe we've advanced, that hubris, it's like every now and then we still just, we fall victim to just, you know, the
02:20:32
Speaker
just things happening. It's not even cruelty. It's not even cruelty. It's not even cruelty. It's just so easy to anthropomorphize because we do it with everything. Well, as we will because we are- Like how many people talk to their fucking car? We are what we are, though. We only know what we are. Because it's like the danger of consciousness is that we project consciousness onto everything. Onto everything, yeah.
02:21:00
Speaker
And even things that could, like, you know, there's like, we can't really measure consciousness either. So like, we can't really say like, what is or what isn't conscious. I will say the good thing about this story is I'm so glad it's your story and not mine. Because Jesus, man, that would, wow, that would really drive me up the wall trying to just figure out that one.
02:21:24
Speaker
That's why I've been I'm glad that's for you to figure out not me man I've been thinking about cuz I was like, do you just play it like almost like Security cam footage or something? It's like no I almost I mean, I'll say I almost see it like first person, but you don't want to do that No, you're like the Rugrats things stuck out to me, but No, you can't that no
02:21:47
Speaker
I don't know, I don't know. You wanna be subtle. I was thinking, what if you just always shot from the floor? But you don't wanna pull on the heartstrings. The heartstrings will naturally pull. Yes. So you don't wanna be like, look what I'm doing here. Yes, you cannot. Look what's going on. Little baby curled up into his arms. Look, it can't be that, because yes, that really happened, but it has to be natural.
Storytelling Techniques and Emotional Depth
02:22:14
Speaker
That has to be the end.
02:22:16
Speaker
Oh, well, you literally it wasn't. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, that was the end. Yeah. Because, you know, I imagine it's just like the camera always just sits on the floor. And you never see a perspective other than from sitting on the floor.
02:22:37
Speaker
And it's gotta be in black and white because toddlers don't see in color in a sense. What if it starts off with like the kid in like their swing or their rocking chair? And it's like they have to escape. No, no, no. And then, yeah, they get out because it's like, hey, you haven't picked me up to change me or feed me. And so it gets up and then it's starting to wander around. Like that could be the start, like,
02:23:04
Speaker
I don't know. Like, I don't know a kid's that old that where they can move around. Well, like if in the swing and the story, it's two. So it'd be the same. The kid is the same age as Emma. Well, yeah, you know what two year olds do. So which is weird are in their bed or something like this. I think Emma could like like she'd rip open like the peanut butter. I don't know. Yeah, Emma doesn't count. She's that girl's a survivor. But, you know, you know, like she'd eat me, dude.
02:23:33
Speaker
That'd be like, I think that'd be a nice spot to start it, like maybe waking up from bed or, you know, something every day that a kid does, but they've been there too long, so it's unnatural. And that's where you already implant the idea that something's not right. Well, you just start with a black screen and then you hear the baby crying. Cause that's like how Emma always like kind of signals. Oh, and then she, she self comforts. Yeah.
02:24:02
Speaker
And then that's when she, oh, fuck, fuck you, dude. And then it's like the journey, like it would be like the journey to find the body. No, no, I don't even think you do that. I think you just have the body present, but in the background. But of course it's a reveal, like if there's feet on the floor that aren't moving, like it's kind of obvious, so that's hard to do. Yeah. Maybe you just allude to it the entire time, but you got to also show the body at the start. Yeah.
02:24:31
Speaker
Because you wanna hint at it, but then right away you also wanna show the body that is actually there, but you also don't want people to understand that that's- Because I think that the thing is, is the audience, it's how soon do you clue them in that there is no escape? Well, that's where the Amazon thing could be good. Because that could be the telling of the audience, like, look, this kid ain't getting help. Mm-hmm.
02:25:00
Speaker
Cause you probably have to explain that a little bit so that they understand like, oh shit, no one's actually coming. Fuck. That's just a hard one to write, man. That's a really hard one to write in general. Like just how do you execute? It's a hard one to execute in general, let alone the power of how tragic it is.
02:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, because... But if you can figure that out, dude, I don't know, maybe you want me to cut it on the podcast, because that's... Oh, no. I wouldn't...
02:25:36
Speaker
I've been thinking about... That's when JJ Abrams is like, fuck Spielberg. Good robot. You can see the next production, good robot. This is something I've been thinking about too, we can talk about as well because we're talking about screenplays. I think sometimes people are almost too protective of their screenplays.
02:25:58
Speaker
Because I- Well, you definitely aren't. Because I don't, if someone wants to rip me off, I couldn't care less to that degree. I mean- Yeah, but have you ever been ripped off art-wise? No. Because I have in photography. Damn, does it not piss you off, especially when they're succeeding and you're not- Well, I mean, but I think it's- I've been through it and it was just like,
02:26:28
Speaker
Well, I've been in situations where I've had ideas for stories and then I will like look and be like, oh, that movie is coming out. That is like that exact same thing. And honestly, that could be a little ego boost because like, hey, I had the same idea except you're making yours for like 40 million. I had a actual. Cause I think that's happened to me quite a few times. Yeah. Um, but like, I don't, I couldn't like, I don't care if I feel like someone wants like,
02:26:53
Speaker
Excellent. Yeah. Like the lone baby directed by Steven. That's the lone baby. That's the title. The lonely baby. I think I would call it the last day. No, that's no, that's not it. That's not it. I don't know. Your title would have to be, you know, maybe that's one thing to figure out is a title and then you can kind of use that to springboard you to the, I got a P. Okay. You want to do pause? Cause I got, yeah.