Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
TSP Ep 122 Part 2: Interview of Indie Screenwriter and Filmmaker Kat Rollinson
26 Plays6 months ago
In this second half, Tom, Steve, and Kat finish their conversation. They discuss the pros and cons on receiving feedback on their writing; Kat shares her first time on set and its benefits for future projects; and, lastly, Kat pitches her upcoming short!
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
If you would like to connect with Kat, you can find her LinkedIn here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kat-rollinson-323942231?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_profile_view_base_contac
Recommended
Transcript
The Role of Imagination in Storytelling
00:00:00
Speaker
are forcing the imagination of your audience is more powerful than sometimes just slapping them in the face with it. And what I also want to talk about about genre because we did you did talk about mostly romance.
Exploring Genre Inclinations
00:00:14
Speaker
Is that just where you are personally drawn or do you have like a desire or is it just what stories come to you?
00:00:22
Speaker
Well, I would say romance or drama was my other one. And I think, yeah, I think they are the stories that speak to me. I think, yeah, my, yeah, it's just where my characters take me, I suppose.
Inspirations from Film and Literature
00:00:38
Speaker
Do you have some film examples of like movies that you like in those genres like in drama and romance like would I guess or Just shoot us a list of movies that you like. I guess okay Well, I guess I've mentioned a few already So I'll re-mention eternal sunshine. I think that's really Yeah, beautiful It's all coming back around like yeah, of course you like internal sunshine after we've talked like
00:01:09
Speaker
It hits like all of your points. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, like I said, as well, you know, Black Mirror is a TV series, you know, hugely inspired by that.
Book Recommendations for Filmmakers
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, yeah, I mean, one
00:01:30
Speaker
drama film that was really, really good, that kind of sticks in my mind as network from the 70s. I'm mad as hell. I got that monologue. We're big Sydney fans over here. You've read his book, Making Movies?
00:01:58
Speaker
No, I haven't actually. It is absolutely required reading, I think, for anyone that wants to be in filmmaking. Yeah. It pretty much details every aspect of filmmaking. And then he has like little anecdotes about like.
00:02:13
Speaker
It's like, this is how you should do casting. And then he talks about how he casted a movie and it's like, and it actually goes into like nitty gritty details, like how he does rehearsals. Like. Yeah, it's actually really practical. Like it's a good book to just read in a practical sense. Cause he does break things down pretty nicely. Like how you should go about it. So that's your homework. And then making me, have you ever seen a movie? Have you ever seen a movie called, uh, in the mood for love?
00:02:42
Speaker
Oh, I don't think I have. No. All right. Well, there's your other homework assignment since you love the romances and drama, right?
Romance Films and Their Impact
00:02:50
Speaker
And it's very dramatic. It's not that funny. It's not a rom-com. But I would definitely recommend that you check that movie out. It's a beautiful, beautiful movie. OK. Well, I would go with my favorite romance, which would be The Apartment. Oh, there you go. Oh, yes. Very good. You've ever seen The Apartment? Yeah. Billy Wilder, 1960.
00:03:10
Speaker
Holy shit, I love that movie. You know, it may not seem like I'm the guy, but I love a good romance. Yeah, as I say, Tom loves rom-coms. I cannot get enough of them. They make me very sad. But I do love them. I don't mind being sad. I'm sad most of the time, so it's okay.
00:03:36
Speaker
But yeah, the apartment. I mean, it sounds like you've seen it, so. Yeah, it was a while ago. But yeah, I remember it being very good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I need to rewatch that one. One of my absolute favorites. And then Eyes Wide Shut, I think, is the greatest film about marriage ever made. Oh, OK. Right. I'll have to check that one out. There. Yeah, but that one you got to watch late at night because that one definitely has its sex scenes in it. Don't watch that one with the kids, that's for sure.
00:04:06
Speaker
Okay, noted. So one thing I wanted to ask you as well, while we're on the topic of writing and getting into it.
The Writing Process: Techniques and Tools
00:04:16
Speaker
What is your writing? Do you have a ritual, a pattern? Something I always like to ask writers because some writers are like, I can only write when I'm sitting at a particular desk when the sun is at 32 degrees facing the horizon or something. That's how I am. Is that something for you or can you just sit down and write whenever it calls?
00:04:41
Speaker
Oh, okay. I would say there's times when, so for example, maybe I go for a run and I got things popping through my head. I've got, you know, whole seems kind of there, but obviously you can't write it down while you're running along. So you kind of get back and you're like, okay, I've just got to throw this down and, you know, not in any kind of, you know, formatted way, just kind of,
00:05:08
Speaker
Just getting the ideas down maybe even just in bullet point form if i'm doing that just to kind of get the information out i can do that pretty much anyway because i just need to get out whenever i get a moment.
00:05:23
Speaker
if I need to actually make it coherent and nicely formatted and all of that stuff, you know, and actually kind of refine it, I suppose, that's where I would want to be in a more focused environment, I suppose, you know, so preferably, preferably with the door closed. I can just kind of go for it. Yeah. Do you ever utilize a recorder to just record your voice and, you know, and like get the idea down that way?
00:05:53
Speaker
I considered it. Um, and I, I think I even tried it once and I didn't quite, it didn't quite work out. Yeah. Uh, and yeah, I think, like I say, just throwing down a few bullet points on like Google, Google docs or whatever is, is more kind of, uh, yeah, just my quick go-to and then just go back and, um, flesh it out later. Yeah. I've, uh, I didn't, I've been doing the recorder. I kind of stopped recently, but.
00:06:23
Speaker
I was never into it because I didn't.
00:06:26
Speaker
I don't know, I just didn't feel right. But then I started utilizing it and I liked it a lot and I was even trying to work on a book where it's pretty much all through the recorder and then I'll just, you know, write it down later and flesh it out a little bit more. I don't know, it's something to, I think, try out because then, you know, anywhere you are, if you have your cell phone or something, you can just record your voice and jot down your ideas because when you were mentioning going for a run,
00:06:54
Speaker
something I like to do is just go for walks and just kind of ruminate on the ideas and let them work themselves out.
00:07:04
Speaker
But I always find myself coming up with some really good ideas that I'm like, okay, well, if this is a good idea, I'm going to remember it when I get back home and I can write it down. And then what usually happens is I completely forgot the idea or I completely forgot the nuance in the idea that made it profound. And so much of it is lost, whereas if I have that recorder, I can at least talk into it and just think out loud. And that's one thing I've really liked about it is just the ability to think out loud because
00:07:34
Speaker
In general, whenever I'm being creative, I kind of just talk to myself and work it out. You know, like I'm having a conversation with myself. Yeah, I don't know. Something to try for someone out there. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll try that again as well, because I think sometimes as well, when you sit down to write and you write some dialogue and you listen to it in your head and you've listened to it in your head dozens of times,
00:08:01
Speaker
And then you speak it out loud or somebody else speaks it out loud and you go, oh, no, that doesn't sound right. And so I think if you have those lines, if you're already doing it in a kind of dictating format to start with, maybe you catch some of that upfront.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point you make because I've noticed when I read back a script, I'll read the dialogue aspects out loud and try to act it out a little bit with my limited acting ability. But it really can help just to kind of see how the words are flowing together. Yeah, definitely. And you can kind of sometimes identify some weird dialogue choices along the way. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Managing Self-Doubt and Feedback
00:08:49
Speaker
One thing I want to talk about too is kind of like the subtext or theme of our interview I guess was when we had talked earlier was a lot about self-doubt and kind of overcoming that. And can you share an example of
00:09:06
Speaker
um when you were writing and you were like this is the biggest piece of shit and then you hand it to somebody and they're like no it's not or or if you have any examples like that I guess do you have any experiences where you're just like no this isn't good and then you're hearing the contrary or I guess vice versa where you're like this is so good but like people are like throwing the trash I hear that one a lot Steven's just like he just has a garbage can just for my scripts I think it's right next to his desk
00:09:31
Speaker
I try to hide it from him though. Well, I think I've been pleasantly surprised a few times by professional feedback. Like I say, my very first script, I got the professional feedback and I was just blown away by it because I thought, okay.
00:09:53
Speaker
This is literally the first thing I've ever written, and that's the kind of feedback I'm getting. Obviously, there were some points for improvement, but it was way, way better than I had expected. Then I put the same script onto the blacklist not long after that. I don't think it resonated with every viewer quite so much as it has resonated with the previous reviewer. I was quite like, wow,
00:10:22
Speaker
That was the same script, two different readers, two completely different reviews. It wasn't a disaster, the blacklist one, but it was a bit of a slap in the face and I was like, okay, maybe I don't.
00:10:40
Speaker
Got this after all, but I think I think you have to Be prepared for that, you know, if you're doing anything Creative is you are never going to have something that pleases everyone whether you're a writer sending out your scripts or whether that script gets made into a you know film or you know TV program and gets seen by people and
00:11:04
Speaker
you're never gonna please everybody. I think you have to just try and, I don't know, take that on the chin a little bit and go, okay, this is a subjective business, and not everyone's gonna like what I write, not everyone's gonna like what I create, and that's okay. If I like it, and if some other people like it, maybe even love it, then that's a huge achievement. And I think even getting something over the line is a huge achievement, because I think, you know,
00:11:35
Speaker
If you do have that voice of doubt and if you indulge it, you know, then you go, OK, OK, I don't think I can do this thing. I don't think I'm equipped to do it. And, you know, there's people out there who are better than me, so I'm not going to do it. So you don't do it. Then you continue to think that you can't do it. So then you don't try other stuff. You know, so it's kind of self perpetuating. So you have to kind of go, OK, maybe
00:12:00
Speaker
maybe I won't succeed. But if I don't do it at all, then I definitely won't succeed. So, you know, I should at least give it a go.
00:12:09
Speaker
Do you have any methods or practices that you use to judge your own work? Like how do you judge like what you've done is good? Or is it just like you read it and you're like, oh, that's funny. Or like, how does it work for you? This is good enough. Because I also want to ask you about rewriting.
00:12:31
Speaker
I'll hold it for a minute. Just a minute. Maybe two. Yeah. Because I have no idea. I always say every video does suck. And then I just make Stephen read it. And I'm like, yep, you're right. I think he still makes movies with me. I read it without cringing. And if I get to the point where I read it without cringing,
00:12:59
Speaker
Then I'll share it with a peer or two, get their feedback. Then if that kind of moves things forward, I kind of make some tweaks and things like that. Then go out, get some professional feedback, and then maybe start submitting it for competitions and things like that. But yeah, it's
00:13:22
Speaker
It can be quite awkward sharing your work for the first time, saving a piece for its first time, because you really have no idea how it's going to land with other people. You know how it landed with you. But yeah, other people may just go, no, I really don't get it. Or that was, yeah, too long winded, or you need to cut some characters or whatever. And you're like, no, but that person was really good. Yeah, but they didn't really have an arc. Okay, well, then cut them.
00:13:51
Speaker
You know, so things like that, you know, and have to kind of, yeah, take some of that, you know, on board. So when I was talking about competitions, I feel like especially since I'm on a lot of the subreddits and reading about like, I feel like there's almost like a different kind of screenwriting for competition as there is for like, like a practical
Writing for Competitions vs. Personal Style
00:14:15
Speaker
screenwriter. Because I feel like when you're writing for competitions, like, oh, I need to have something by page 10, I need to have this by
00:14:21
Speaker
Like it's like by page 10, I better have some kind of hook. I better have some kind of inciting incident something by page 10. Like it's like literally there are. It's like a chart that you can follow. Like, you know, it's page 55. This has to happen. It's 83. Right. So like, do you write things? Do you do that kind of like where it's like, but then I feel like everyone just writes the same, like.
00:14:45
Speaker
They're like it's it kind of starts when I read people's like when I like people are like, hey, can you read my script? Like I'm submitting it, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, it's like the same fucking thing I just read, like by the other person. Like it where's the like the individuality? Like where's the personality? Sorry. Yeah. Jesus Christ. What's going on? Sorry.
00:15:05
Speaker
But what I wanted to ask is like, do you do you see that yourself? Like as you're getting the judgments back that you're like, are these people just tired of reading the same kind of like, oh, it's page 10. Like here's the inciting incident and here's blah, blah, blah, blah. And how would you go about navigating that?
00:15:24
Speaker
Well, there was one script I had that I asked to appear to review and he was obviously kind of, you know, feeling back based on the kind of, you know, generally expected structures, you know, like save the cat or whatever. And I thought, okay, I take that on board. And, you know, most of it I could accommodate without compromising on what I wanted to do in that script.
00:15:50
Speaker
But there were a few things where I thought, you know what, I know it's kind of an unusual choice, but I'm going to stick with it because I think that it flows better like that. But then I guess you have to accept that maybe when you send it out for competitions and things, people go, yeah, but you didn't have your inciting incident by page 10. OK, yes, I didn't. But that's because, explain it. And other people may get it. They may say, OK, yeah, maybe that's actually because, yeah, you need to focus a bit more on this other thing.
00:16:20
Speaker
Whereas, you know, there are other scripts where, you know, I've written them and I've got the feedback that, you know, either you've really spent some time structuring this or you're a natural at it because, you know, it was basically you had that structure straight off. So, yeah, I guess, and I think that goes back to the point earlier that, you know, sometimes you watch so many of these things that you almost have structure ingrained into you anyway. Maybe sometimes you fight against it. Maybe sometimes you don't.
00:16:50
Speaker
But yeah, it does depend. I mean, maybe that's like my own arrogance. I'm not out there winning competitions or anything, nor am I necessarily writing for anyone else but myself. But I'm just like, I kind of hate how structured it feels like some people are where it's like, if your page one isn't this, like don't bother writing. And I feel like you get a lot of feedback like that from people online. It's like, it just feels so icky.
00:17:16
Speaker
where I'm like, have you ever read the script? Have you ever read a Coen Brothers script? Have you ever read like Alien or like some of the best movies ever? And you read their scripts, like they don't follow any of these rules. And I know that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot, but then when you watch movies and you're like, every movie kind of feels the same, it's because maybe these people are like, it's like everyone's bending themselves into like the structure. So you don't like the formula to it?
00:17:41
Speaker
I don't like that there's necessarily a formula. Like, have you ever read this? Did you watch tar? Have you seen tar? Not yet. It's on my list. If you ever read the script for tar, and I can send it to you if you want or Steven can send it to you, I can send it to him and he can send it to you or whatever.
Screenplay Structures and Creative Deviations
00:18:01
Speaker
The script for tar is very interesting because like in the first page, he's like, this is not a normal script.
00:18:06
Speaker
oh okay this is not like yeah a lot of this is like a lot of this is going to be determined on like the length of the music and like the actors and things like that and it's like do not like even though it's like i think that scripts like really really fucking long it's like 150 pages or something and he was like this is not reflective of the runtime
00:18:30
Speaker
That's an immediate no-no for a lot of competitions. And then when you start reading the script, you're like, I think it's Todd Phillips. Not Todd Phillips. Todd. Todd something. Sorry, Todd.
00:18:43
Speaker
taught something. The guy from Eyes Wide Shut, he's a piano player. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's the director and writer of Tar. I love that movie. And I was like, this script does, it's like, it literally is like, it's just like, oh, fuck all this. I'm doing what I want. And when he does what he wants, and it's like, I don't know, I just feel like it's, it's, there's two different worlds. There's like, the world of like, the people that are making the movies, and then there's the people like that are just like trying to sell and just,
00:19:12
Speaker
And I'm curious how what your take is on that because you've been in that competitive space and you've seen a lot of the other scripts that are out there. Are you getting that same vibe? Am I just completely out of left field here? I think when it comes to
00:19:28
Speaker
competitions, I think a lot of them will have guidelines for their first lot of reviewers that say it has to tick this box and this box and this box. And so you can start to see that things might get a little bit formulaic and everybody has to follow the same structure and everybody has to have the same kind of beats in their story. I think there's even more of a danger of that when you talk about
00:19:59
Speaker
AI reviewers and, you know, even AI produce scripts, you know, it's all going to end up going that
AI's Role in Creativity and Human Individuality
00:20:05
Speaker
way. So maybe, maybe that's, I think the thing with AI is it makes, if I'm being optimistic about it, I would say it would make
00:20:15
Speaker
the importance of human input go up you know so so for example you know you could get you know a script like that you know if you kind of you know pluck the right thing into the right tool but is it gonna sound human or do you need a human to actually produce it or at the very least edit it to a you know a human standard and i think maybe then that will make
00:20:38
Speaker
things that have been produced by a person and written by a person and made by a person more valuable. You can impose your individuality a little bit more because of that. But like I say, that's me being quite optimistic. I guess it would be less of an apocalypse if that were to happen, I suppose.
00:21:06
Speaker
And I feel like that's the right trajectory that it's going down. There will always be some kind of human oversight, I would hope. I mean, I guess that's the optimistic aspect of it. Hopefully that my big fear, at least in the regards of AI, is just big corporations using it as a money saving tactic, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
We're going to save a crap ton of money by just having essentially rewriters. The idea is just going to come from some producer and then they're going to spit out some screenplay, they're going to have someone look at it, and then they're just going to make that. And then that's going to cut out the screenwriter, it's going to cut out a bunch of other people that work on that.
00:21:53
Speaker
And I think that's kind of inevitable, unfortunately, because business dictates that you save money wherever you can, sadly. Well, film is a business, right? Exactly. Exactly.
00:22:09
Speaker
But then there'll be people like us that are just still making movies like the good old fashioned way like they used to do, you know, like, yeah.
Freedom in Independent Filmmaking
00:22:18
Speaker
And if you're making it yourself, you know, with your own crews and, you know, kind of, you know, micro budgets and, you know, uh, in the investors and things like that, then you can play around with the format a bit, you know, in the structure and you know, you can do things that are more,
00:22:37
Speaker
unusual and intriguing, you know, and maybe that's your USP, you know? Yeah. That's my USP. Yeah, Steven and I try to like, we always, that's what we always say. It's like, you know, we're gonna, we wouldn't necessarily, like, I wouldn't say no if Marvel was like, hey, you want to make a Marvel movie? So it's like,
00:22:58
Speaker
I always think of a do one for them and then a do some for me kind of thing because the unfortunate aspect of filmmaking is that it is so expensive because well, there's like two aspects to that, right? Like you can have a volunteer crew of people that are then volunteering their time.
00:23:16
Speaker
which is great, but then it's like, you can only do that so much. Like people need to like, you know, like we said, like, you know, your kids want to eat food. Like they like, you know, they like having like roof over their head when it rains, which requires money and like, and filmmaking is a huge time investment. So yeah, it's tough.
00:23:38
Speaker
And you're getting into that right now so you're gonna see like it's it's a it's a I mean we've been on film sets and you're a script supervisor what you know I want to get back to that a little bit as well like what was that experience like being on set and something we always like underline I'm gonna line it again.
00:23:58
Speaker
is networking. You talked about that. I'm going to be making a movie starting to sow those seeds of possibility, networking.
Networking and On-Set Experiences
00:24:08
Speaker
What are your networking tips and then describe what it was like being a script supervisor and can you talk about the set that you were on a little bit? Yeah, sure. Networking is an interesting one because I think
00:24:25
Speaker
In today's world, 90% of stuff is done online. You go on LinkedIn, you set up a profile, you start to connect with other writers and other creatives, and then you get invited to join the networks and blah, blah, blah, and it all builds and builds and builds.
00:24:45
Speaker
You can do all of that without having a single in-person conversation. And I think for somebody like me, who's an introvert, that's a lot more, my comfort zone is like, oh yeah, I just ping someone a message and then ping me one back and then you go, okay, yeah, maybe let's do a script swap or maybe let's just offer a bit of advice or maybe you never hear from them again. And then you just go, okay, it's just numbers game sometimes. But there will be the odd, you know, real kind of genuine, you know,
00:25:11
Speaker
connection within there where you do kind of collaborate more deeply and then maybe you do wanna actually have a Zoom call with somebody or whatever. But again, it's all kind of online. So then you think, well, okay, I need to maybe like meet people in person and how do I go about that in this very online world? So part of it might be going on a training course and meeting people there.
00:25:41
Speaker
And then for me, there was this, you know, going to this film set. And I'd only really met the director through LinkedIn, and I saw that she was hiring people onto the film set. And I said to her, oh, do you want me to reshare your recruitment email to my network?
00:26:03
Speaker
Oh, and by the way, if you need any extras, because at the time I was thinking I should try and get on a film set as an extra just so I can see how it all works and get a better idea and make myself a better writer. So I said, if you need any extras or whatever, then just let me know. I'd be happy to come along and do that for free. She said, well, I don't really need any extras, but how about being a script supervisor?
00:26:30
Speaker
Okay, let me just look up what that is. It's like usually a fun job. Something that we overlooked big time on our feature. Yeah, yeah. And we paid for it with the cost of all of this.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's basically you're kind of the resident clipboard. I hope I don't offend any script supervisors out there by saying that, but I pretty much had a clipboard surgically attached to my arm when I was on this film set, which is why I say that, because you've got the script and you've got your legend and all your documentation that you have to do.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I found it really, really, really intense being on the film set, but also a massive buzz. The whole day, adrenaline was just off the charts. Yeah, it is. It's a 12-hour day. It's like summer camp. Yeah, and just the whole time and I wasn't even like the time was just vanishing as well. You suddenly realize that you're wrapping up for the day and you're like, wow, my God, really has it been 12 hours? Feels like about two.
00:27:35
Speaker
So yeah, I really enjoyed being on the film set. Yeah, I really did. What was the film set? What was it about? Was it a big set or a small set? Sorry, that's where I'm at. What was it about? Yeah, it was a short film and it was somebody's personal production.
00:27:57
Speaker
She'd build up cast and crew and everything and written the script and then she was directing co-producing it as well. That was a film called The Name Has a Price and it was a film noir short. It was a really good- That's a great title on film noir.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was really. Oh, very good. Well, then you check out the name of the prize. I'm going to check it out. I wrote it down. So, so, yeah. So it was Anastasia Brown who got me on that, onto that set. And, uh, yeah, it gave me an opportunity and just, yeah, I guess, yeah, really.
00:28:47
Speaker
I really was very grateful for that because you know it wasn't just being on a film set it was being involved on a film set you know and kind of very uh yeah very much you know when you're a script supervisor you're kind of
00:29:01
Speaker
kind of everywhere. Yeah, it was a really great experience. Yeah, I'd say good script supervisor is like one of the most important jobs you can have on a set, just because they're kind of keeping track of what is working. And also continuity is such a pain in the ass.
00:29:20
Speaker
And then just being like, okay, you said this line on the previous take, but then on this take, you said it after. So when you're going in editing, it's just like, why didn't I pay attention to when they said the line? Because now I can't use this take over this take, or I have to cut things around, right? We have then the Lexi, where she would say her line's almost backwards.
00:29:48
Speaker
What the fuck is going on here? But yeah, that was just ignorance on our part, sorry. I just had to relent. You had to vent there. But being on a film set, how valuable has that been for your writing?
Insights from Film Set Experiences
00:30:01
Speaker
How has that translated? Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, very much so, very much so, because you see how things play out. And I think when you're
00:30:17
Speaker
When you're writing something on spec, you can do pretty much anything you like, you know, you can have aliens, you can do period dramas, you can have 50 million characters, you know, it's not going to cost you anything. I think when you, you know, see how things are in a film set, you see the complexity of it, you get a better appreciation of how to write something to make for a reasonable budget, I guess. So it kind of gave me that
00:30:45
Speaker
like valuable experience you know to kind of see everything that goes into actually making something happen and yeah and just yeah I think yeah I think it does make you a better writer and I think it means that you can then you know go on to to make your own short films with that you know valuable inside knowledge because you know just being there I just yeah absorbed so much it was great
00:31:12
Speaker
So incorporating that into the short film that you're working on now, did you figure, oh, I need to cut down my number of locations. I need to make sure I keep a low cast in mind. Was that kind of in your back pocket? Is that why your friend told you to skip the pilot slash proof of concept? Was that a bigger idea or was it just logistically harder?
00:31:40
Speaker
It was more that it was already tied to a bigger part of what I wanted to do. And so I think the general guidance was your first film is never going to be your best work. Just like your first script is never going to be your best work. You learn a lot.
00:32:06
Speaker
It's so crazy to say that though, because some filmmakers, sorry interrupt, but some filmmakers, their best movie is their first. Citizen Kane is his first movie. Clerks for Kevin Smith. He's never done better. Reservoir dogs are pulp fiction. A lot of people still consider Tarantino's best. Sorry, I know. Sorry to tangent it, but it's like, damn.
00:32:32
Speaker
But did they do little projects on the side that nobody knows about? That's the thing. That's true too. Tarantino did for sure. He did my best friend's birthday, which didn't actually end up being released fully. But yeah. But I think the general point was, if you're doing something that's tied into the rest of your portfolio, you want to do that when you've already built your knowledge and cut your teeth as a director. And I do not
00:33:01
Speaker
I have never directed anything. I think the things that I can do as a director and that I'm very clear on are division and being able to guide people on the vision.
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah, and just kind of, I guess, knowing how I want that all to play out and the kind of leadership, you know, aspect of it. What I'm less clear on is the more technical side of it. So things like the shot planning, for example, knowing how to evoke certain emotions from, you know, just changing the angle or, you know, whether it's a wide shot, narrow shot, you know, the kind of coloring and all that kind of stuff. So all that kind of technical stuff is the things that I'm kind of
00:33:44
Speaker
less confident on, but building my knowledge on. That's great because I want to interject real quick, is that you can hire a DP or you can hire a cinematographer that does know that. That's the collaboration aspect. You want this scene to be more serious, we can light this so that we generally feel more dramatic about this scene.
00:34:11
Speaker
And you don't necessarily need to know like, Oh, I have a 350 watt or light on this corner that's bouncing off the ceiling. And then we're going to use a 50 millimeter lens at this depth of field. Like you don't like, that's the best part about being a director. It's like you have, you just need to hire the people that know how to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's the greatest thing about like, it's like you don't have to know
00:34:33
Speaker
every aspect like sculpting sound and making sure you're actually capturing good sound like it's good to know these things but like
00:34:43
Speaker
If you know everything, then you might actually be like, it might almost be a problem in a sense, because then your DP doesn't really get to express themselves as much because you're like, I want a 35 millimeter lens over here, you know, like give me 15 feet from the camera at this angle. And then they're like, what am I doing? I'm just a camera operator now, like.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, I guess that's the pro. That's the plus side. I won't be dictating too much. Yeah, exactly. I like to encourage the collaboration because I'm a jack dumbass. I need as much help as I can get.
00:35:27
Speaker
Like I was saying earlier, it's like the sum of the parts. The product is greater than the sum of the parts. Yeah. Do you plan to work on more sets to increase your knowledge base or do you feel like working on the one short film was enough and then you can focus on the screenwriting and potentially future directing?
00:35:56
Speaker
I'm open to other opportunities, you know, to go on to sets for sure. I think, yeah, I think, like I say, it was a real, um, yeah, a real buzz being there and yeah, really enjoyed it. So yeah, I'd be open to that. How do you fit that in with like your, your day to day schedule? Was it like a weekends only kind of thing for the film shoot? Or I don't know if you only have weekends off. I'm sorry. That's an assumption on my part. How did you make that work?
00:36:25
Speaker
So for the shoot last year, I took some some leave from my day job. So yeah, it was partly weekend, partly midweek. Yeah. But I think, you know, if it was to be. Yeah, I guess I would have to weigh up each opportunity if it were to come and see, you know, can I fit it into my schedule, whether it's my work schedule, family schedule, etc. And yeah, yeah, but but certainly try.
00:36:52
Speaker
And how do you navigate that reality of family, day job, passion?
Balancing Writing with Life Commitments
00:37:02
Speaker
Do you make time to write every day or is it just kind of when you have the energy, how are you managing all of that? And are you managing it well? Oh, well, I would say,
00:37:20
Speaker
I do what I can when I can, so I don't put pressure on myself to do something every day because there may be days when you have a long day at work or you're kind of out on a family day out and you need to be there, be with them.
00:37:36
Speaker
then you can't always make time every day to write. Well, maybe some people still do, but I think I allow myself some leeway. But I think if I have a period where I don't write for
00:37:55
Speaker
a little while for whatever reason that is. Maybe you're either on holiday or you're working on something quite intensely and you can't really spare the time. I find that I get a mental buildup that I have to get some release at some point. Writing is a release, I suppose. It's not just something that I have to make myself to do, it's something that I want to do.
00:38:25
Speaker
it has to come out at some point. Even if it is just throwing down a few bullet points of ideas like, oh yeah, I've got this thing, I haven't got time to write it right now, but I do want to just jot it all down and then I'll come back to it when I do get the time.
00:38:39
Speaker
So with these on and off moments with the creativity or with the working, when you do sit down and start working, do you then devote like a ton of hours and you spent your whole day working or is it still, or do you still keep that balance where, you know, you only maybe apply four hours of your day devoted to that?
00:39:04
Speaker
It depends what I can devote to it, really. It depends what I can shoehorn in. So it may be just, you know, a couple of hours in the evening, you know, after I've finished work and, you know, the kids are in bed or whatever, or it might be, you know, I don't know, an afternoon or, you know, yeah, whatever I can, whatever I can squeeze in really. Do you ever beat yourself up for not working when you do have
00:39:28
Speaker
the opportunity to, and then is there any value in beating yourself up when you don't? Yes to the first question, no to the second, yes. Yeah, I do kind of think, oh God, I could have done some writing tonight, but instead I didn't have any energy and maybe I just sat and watched a film. And then you can say to yourself, ah yes, but I sat and watched a film. And that is research.
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. But no, but you know, maybe you don't sit and read a film, you know, watch a film, maybe you, I don't know, fall asleep. Yeah, but is there any value in beating yourself up? Absolutely not. No, no. And yeah, I think, I think
00:40:16
Speaker
the fact that you're doing something that you enjoy and you want to do it. But there might be times when you don't have the energy or you don't have the time or you actually just want to give yourself a day off. There's nothing wrong with that. And I think sometimes if you try and make yourself sit down to do something, that's when you seize up
00:40:43
Speaker
mentally and you know I mean I find my my flow happens not when I'm sitting in front of a laptop but when I'm doing something and that's when I have to just jot down these notes you know so I might be out for a run I might be doing the washing up or whenever you know traveling to work or blah blah blah just throw it down and then write it properly when you get the time because um yeah I think sitting down in front of a laptop
00:41:08
Speaker
So right can be quite daunting. Yeah. Something I'm curious about. Thank you for saying that. Oh yeah, something I'm curious about. You're making me feel better about myself.
00:41:21
Speaker
I wanted to talk a little bit about rewriting in that respect then. Can I just ask one more thing before we switch? So you had mentioned family time and make him, you know, it made me think of the idea of being present, you know, where you can be there with family, but of course your mind somewhere else, like on the projects, thinking about how this scene is going to play out or, you know, just kind of always working.
00:41:51
Speaker
How, I'm not even sure what my question is, but just the idea of being present and are you, I guess,
00:42:01
Speaker
Have you found a good way to do that, you know, with all your other commitments? Because I know for myself, I think a big issue I run into is a lot of times I'm not present. My mind's always somewhere else and I'm always brainstorming on the next idea or, you know, even if I'm with family, I'm always kind of still searching, well, where's the story here? How could we make this story work or like at a Thanksgiving dinner or something like that?
00:42:28
Speaker
Oh, could there be a story here with the family getting together? Oh, how does this happen? Do you ever run into issues where you lack being present in the moment? I would say it depends kind of where you are and what you're doing. So I think if you're doing something where you're kind of, you know, very engaged, like you're, I don't know, uh, playing a card game or, you know, you're at a theme park or whatever, and you're kind of
00:42:58
Speaker
You've got so much going on in that family situation that you are fully focused on that, I suppose.
00:43:05
Speaker
But yeah, there might be moments where your brain goes off on the tangent. Actually, I was just using the example of a theme park. Actually, when I was at a theme park about a year and a half ago, I was in the queue and I got inspired by this sign because obviously there is a lot of time queuing. So maybe that was a bad example because I saw this sign and it was talking about queue jumping and stuff.
00:43:32
Speaker
And that just kind of got me onto this thing about a family who are kind of in a roller coaster queue and they're kind of squabbling family. And by the time they get, it's like a two hour queue. By the time you get to the front of the queue, you've kind of got through your troubles kind of thing. And the whole thing is about the roller coaster is a metaphor for family life. And that all came to me when I was in a roller coaster queue.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yeah, but I think yeah, I think I think it's hard to switch that off. Yeah. I don't think you want to switch that off because the best stories come from you. Like personally, I feel.
00:44:14
Speaker
Because who can argue, you're like, that character sucks. And you're just like, that's me. How can you argue that, right? You're in a line for two hours. Maybe you don't need to make a two hour movie about someone in a queue. Sorry, I don't use queue for sending in lines. Do it in real time, huh?
00:44:33
Speaker
but like yeah like you can design a story around that and you're like this kind of this resonates right like this will resonate because it happened it's real and um some of the best stuff you pull is from you know your real life and then you can hide that in a sci-fi or you can hide that into horror or you can mask it so like you're not necessarily just like exposing yourself like completely well hearing you just
00:44:57
Speaker
Mention this queue or this line you're in and and the story that unfolds, you know, I can just perfectly picture it Right away. That was yeah, I like that idea a lot. That's really cool. It's brilliant Yeah, it really is and you're and it's like yeah, you know that I love when stuff like that happens
00:45:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The little serendipitous moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it does happen. Yeah, it does happen. It's hard to switch that off. Yeah, I think it's impossible, especially when you're when you write a lot. You just start looking at you see everything as a story, right? Like.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah. But also sometimes somebody will say something, maybe you're at a family gathering or the kids say something or whatever, and you're like, oh my God, that's so funny. I'm going to write that down. Or I can't believe, oh, they'll tell you some anecdote. And you're like, oh yeah, I'm using that. Yeah.
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's great because it's like, how do you beat that authenticity? When you're imagining people saying things, it's so much better just to actually pull from what people actually say. If you've ever listened to people talk, people talk so fucking different. They talk so different, so weird, you're like, this is weird.
00:46:09
Speaker
The way they phrase things or the way they're looking at the world is so foreign to you and you're like, I would never be able to figure that out. I can imagine what they would say, but actually then hearing them say it, it's like a weird confirmation. That's how different we can be. But I do want to dig into rewriting because I always tell people writing is rewriting.
00:46:33
Speaker
And what is your process? Do you do page one rewrites for when you are submitting to competitions and when you are working for yourself? Then how do you know when you're done? So the question, I can rephrase it in a nice question format. So how do you feel about rewriting? What are your focuses when rewriting? And then how do you know when you're done? How do I feel about rewriting? It is
00:47:00
Speaker
hard. Yes, it's agony. It's a necessary part of the process though, because when you first write something down, your first draft, and you look at it and you're like, yeah, I love that, I love that, I love that. Then you send it out to somebody and they come back to you with a list of bullet points, you're like,
00:47:22
Speaker
oh how could I not have seen that and oh I didn't really look at it that way and you know okay so maybe I do need to rethink that or maybe I do need to embellish that you know detail or maybe I do need to remove that or you know yeah so but I find it I find it really really hard and well last year actually I applied for this festival where you could or the competition where you could request feedback and you could actually
00:47:50
Speaker
Re-submit your script for free within a certain window after you had that feedback so it kind of gave you that opportunity to do the rewrite so you submit your script get feedback do the rewrite submitted again i guess the good news is that i got an accolade for that one quarter finalist and i don't know whether i would have got that.
00:48:11
Speaker
without having done the rewrite. But I think the assumption would be probably no, because the feedback would have enhanced the script.
Handling Feedback and Maintaining Vision
00:48:20
Speaker
But I think also that it's so subjective, like I've been saying before. The feedback that you get from one person could be like, yeah, wow, we really love this. It was great script, great ideas, great characters. And then the next person goes, yeah, I didn't really get it. I thought this character was a bit flat. They could be wildly different.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah, so just because you've rewritten it based on one or a few people's feedback that you've had already, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's how it's going to land with the next person who reads it. Yeah, so I think rewrites can be quite tough. Are you selective at all with your feedbackers? As in who I get feedback from? Yes.
00:49:05
Speaker
Well, I mean, I guess when you get the pro feedback, you don't know who's doing it. When you get peer feedback, you do. Yeah, I guess it just depends at the time, you know, whether anybody wants to do a script swap, or if there's somebody that I particularly want to get their opinion for whatever reason, you know, if they have
00:49:28
Speaker
a different approach to me and I want to get their, um, you know, knowledge. Yeah, I guess it's a case by case basis really, but, um, but yeah, I don't kind of, yeah, I don't have any set pathway that I take generally. So, so would you say all feedback is then useful? Oh, it is.
00:49:53
Speaker
Good to know how it's received by other people. Um, but I think when you get, okay, so let's say you get a list of 10 points for improvement and you go through them and you think, okay, the first one, yep, completely agree with that. I'm going to do that one. Second one, partially agree with that one. Okay. Maybe I could tweak that a little bit, but maybe not to the extent that they've suggested. And then the third one, you might go, do you know what? If I do that.
00:50:19
Speaker
I'm going to compromise my vision and I don't want to compromise my vision. And so, yeah, so I think, you know, and even when.
00:50:28
Speaker
You know, you get this pro feedback and things like that. They say, you know, this is obviously our opinion. You know, what you do with it is up to you. That can be quite tough as well. Just sort of thinking, am I going to be bold and not do that thing that they suggested? And sometimes, yeah, you have to go with your vision.
00:50:51
Speaker
I think that takes a big level of confidence to know that it would be a compromise to your vision because I feel like when you get feedback sometimes there's like this knee-jerk reaction that you need to change it instead of actually just looking at it because like you said it's very subjective and some people just like things very obvious while some people like things a little more subtextual or even just like just vague
00:51:17
Speaker
Yeah. And that's something I struggle with, too. It's like how out there do you want to put something like?
00:51:29
Speaker
Do you want it to be as plain as day that this is character bad? You're character didn't seem villainous enough. I'm like, okay, he's the hero, but okay. Not necessarily like that, but that's something I struggle with.
00:51:52
Speaker
I don't necessarily want to just, you know, it's like it should be like at the beginning of six cents. Have you seen six cents? I'm about to spoil it. Spoilers. Yeah, I know. I know the plot line. Don't worry. Okay. But it'd be like at the beginning if like you had seen Bruce Willis die and become the host.
00:52:10
Speaker
Yeah, like I bet there were probably people that would have been making clear. Yeah. And then it's like, well, then you it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. And I worry. I think that a lot of people do want that. They want that like obvious statement of, yeah, this. Yeah. You know, it's black and white. Like, you know, you have good guys and bad guys or you like, can you make this character a little more agreeable? And it's like.
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah, because I was thinking. Yeah, totally miss the point. Yeah. Yeah. And that could be a professional writer, right? Like you mentioned Save the Cat. You know, it's like people always bring up that book for when it comes to screenwriting. And I'm like, that guy wrote Richie Rich or blank check. He wrote blank check.
00:52:59
Speaker
Like yeah, he made probably a lot of money writing but it's like I wouldn't want to be I wouldn't be proud that I wrote blank check. I love that movie as a kid, by the way, but yeah, sorry, seen it. Yeah, well, you know, like with the feedback.
00:53:17
Speaker
I thought about doing it more, but then I've also thought like, well, who am I and what do I know? Because I gave someone on LinkedIn, they wrote a short script and they wanted to shoot it my way. So I said, yeah, I'll go ahead and read it for you and give you my input. And so I did. Never heard from that person after that, not even a thank you or anything. And it made me doubt my, or maybe not doubt myself, but I don't know.
00:53:47
Speaker
As a person or dare I say fellow writer, you know, I want to give good feedback because I think it is important like you were talking about getting negative feedback or issues where you, you know, the critique where you need to change things and
00:54:03
Speaker
I think that's the most important feedback you can get, you know, not just, oh, yeah, it was great. I loved it. That's awesome. Yeah. Strokes of ego. That's great to hear. That's what you want to hear. But honestly, hearing the critique and the criticism, that's far more valuable because let's be honest.
00:54:24
Speaker
It's not going to be a hundred percent perfect throughout, you know, like maybe the story within itself is great, but maybe the middle section is a little slow or it's not, you know, formulated that well. And so it's, it's very important to hear that critique so that you can fix it, you know, and that is valuable. And yeah, and I'm getting to the point where.
00:54:48
Speaker
In the feedback I get, I'm starting to get real selective, you know, and I want to hear from people who aren't going to tell me it's good, which really isn't hard for me to find, coincidentally. But, you know, I really do value hearing that someone who won't be afraid to tell me what they really think.
00:55:17
Speaker
You know, Tom's definitely one of those people that I can rely on. And of course my ego gets in the way where I don't wanna hear and I'm like, ah, you just don't get it, you're dumb. But- You're not wrong. But then, you know, when I step back and really think about it, like, okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. And I think one of the hardest aspects with feedback is deciding what to listen to and what not to. You know, that's probably the hardest thing to do because
00:55:47
Speaker
you very easily can move away from your vision.
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's all the same, man. We had some feedback and we took it and it was the biggest, one of the biggest mistakes I think we made when we did our feature as we got a couple of people that gave kind of like similar feedback about a certain scene. And then so we completely changed that scene. And then we were watching it and we're like, all the intensity's gone now. Like, God, like fucking A. Like, why did we listen to people like, sorry, but
00:56:20
Speaker
And yeah, when talking about...
00:56:25
Speaker
getting feedback. I wanted to talk a little bit about pitching and comparison because I feel like especially with screenwriting, a lot of people worry so much about being compared to things when really like that's like just how our human brains kind of work.
Pitching Ideas and Crafting Loglines
00:56:44
Speaker
Right. A lot of people say this story is like seven meets, you know, like Daddy's Day Out or something or Baby's Day Out. And you're like, that'd be a weird movie.
00:56:51
Speaker
But what kind of experiences have you had with pitching and then do you kind of do that kind of comparison where it's like my movie is like this and this type of thing? And then can you talk about that a bit? Yeah, I have done that for some of my scripts, especially where I have started working on pitch materials.
00:57:18
Speaker
It's a little bit of an uncomfortable exercise because you go, OK, so this is like this meets this. So, for example, it's like, you know, eternal sunshine meets the time traveler's wife, for example, with a little bit of Russian dolls thrown in. And then you kind of go, yeah, but they're all like, you know, very, very well received films and shows and things. And I'm just little old me.
00:57:43
Speaker
Am I really putting myself in those ballparks? But I guess what they're saying is it's more like, what is the tone? What is the style? What is the voice? And what would you therefore compare yourself to? It's not necessarily saying, what would you compare the quality of your writing to? Although, obviously, there was something I read recently about comps that said,
00:58:07
Speaker
Whatever you do, when you're writing a company and saying this is like X meets Y, don't go for something that was a badly received film. That is going to create the perception in the investor or producer or whoever's reading it, mind that, okay, well, this is a flop. That's true. That's a good point. You want to aim high in a way to
00:58:33
Speaker
getting them reading more. When you say badly received film, what does that mean exactly? Because I'm thinking of Fight Club, for instance. When Fight Club came out, it was a total flop. Didn't make anything in the box office. It was in the secondary market that it actually picked up and essentially became a cult classic and very successful. So in that example,
00:58:59
Speaker
same fight club be a good idea I guess maybe now with because you have a wider context perhaps like what would be some I would say yes now yeah but if you are writing your pitch deck
00:59:13
Speaker
20 years ago, maybe not. You know, wait, wait for it to become a success before you can put it in there. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Cause time and context is everything, right? Cause Blade Runner is a failure of a film. And then it's like also one of the greatest films ever made.
00:59:29
Speaker
Fuck. Yeah. And make a lot of money, but it's also like considered one of the greatest sci-fi films. Yeah. Um, so yeah. And, but, uh, have you had experience pitching? Have you pitched professionally? Um, and then how has that kind of gone? I have not. It's professionally, so I can't really, uh, advise. Stepping out of your comfort zone type of thing. Are you nervous about pitching? I think.
00:59:56
Speaker
I can present because I have to do that sometimes as part of my day job and sometimes presenting in senior audiences and things like that. So I think I have the kind of background for that, even if it's not in a filmmaking context. And if I've got the passion for my project then, which of course I do,
01:00:26
Speaker
then I think I would hope that those two things would come together and also the adrenaline of being in the room would get me through that. But I haven't actually put that to the test yet. Well then, can I put you on the spot? You going to make her pitch? Can you pitch us your short film that you're going to be directing?
01:00:48
Speaker
Ah, now this is unfair because you're putting me on the spot. If I was going into an actual pitch, I would have done a lot of preparation in order to distill it into just a few lines that I could say to somebody. But let me give that a go. Come on, sell it to us. Sell it to us here. We're overseas. This is through the internet. You want an investor? Here we are.
01:01:13
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Do excuse me a second. There's a bit of noise at my end. Just bear with me. Okay. So, um, so did you take your break? You know, you stepped away, you know, for the pitch. Um, okay. So,
01:01:39
Speaker
So I want you to think about for a minute the last time that you spoke to yourself in an unkind voice.
01:01:47
Speaker
Okay, five seconds ago. And I was just about to say, maybe that was an hour ago, maybe you're doing it right now. And now I want you to think about, would you ever use that same voice to speak to other people? Or would you be more moderate? Would you be more accommodating and be nice to people, essentially?
01:02:11
Speaker
bearing that in mind, the short film that I've written, it's called Do Unto Yourself, and it's about a lady who's in her 50s, and she's basically spent a lifetime or, you know,
01:02:29
Speaker
bringing herself down, putting herself down. And that voice isn't getting any nicer as years progress, you know, and even especially when she's comparing herself to what she used to be. And so in this short film, the inner critic becomes an outer critic. So she actually has such an acute case of self-doubt that it materializes into a separate being that kind of follows her around and criticizes her all the time.
01:02:58
Speaker
She gets this opportunity at work to pursue a promotion and then she gets intrigued by this but at the same time she has this voice dragging her down and the only way that she can go ahead and push herself forward at work is by brutally murdering this outer voice that she's externalised.
01:03:21
Speaker
So yes, having beaten this separate voice to death, she then moves forward with her life. She applies for the promotion, she gets the job, she gets the respect at work that she has deserved but didn't think beforehand that she did deserve. And yeah, so it's kind of a real positive take on the inner critic and slaying the inner critic.
01:03:47
Speaker
Sorry, saying murder is good. I'm just messing. All right. So is this like a Cape Fear meets? What kind of movie is this? What would you say it's like? Give me an example of some movies. What would I say it's like? Like some well received movies it's like.
01:04:17
Speaker
Well, I guess, in a way, you could make a fight club comparison because, you know, in fight club, both the protagonist and the antagonist were the same person, you know, so, and, you know, that kind of twist isn't, say again, sorry. I said spoilers. Sorry. You can spoil anything. It's okay.
01:04:44
Speaker
So yeah, as in they are both the same person, but it's not necessarily apparent from the first scene that they are the same person. So you see this person in an abusive relationship. And as the film progresses, then you realise that she's actually in an abusive relationship with herself.
01:05:09
Speaker
You know what I thought of I like this pitch almost immediately and I got a job check the name But there's a Bruce Willis movie. I believe was called the kid Yeah, it's called the kid essentially Somehow the like eight-year-old version of Bruce Willis comes to the future and
01:05:33
Speaker
to see Bruce Willis now. And he's like, man, I turned into such an asshole, like what went wrong? And then it's like a kind of like a, like a, it's a nice little story about like him, like, cause he was like a little shitty kid. That was like a sad kid and he became like a, you know, like an asshole adult. And so it's like him like kind of like rebonding with his childhood.
01:05:57
Speaker
Um, he doesn't murder him, his childhood. Yeah. But no, no, no, but I would recommend actually checking it out because it kind of has like a similar kind of set up and you can see what worked there and what doesn't work there. Um, I would check it out. The kid, the kid. Okay. Bruce Willis from, uh, to my list, uh, my homework list. Yes. Sorry. You're, I didn't realize you're gonna have so much homework. So, so Kat, do you have any experience with log lines?
01:06:27
Speaker
Uh, yes. And can you explain to us what that is?
01:06:33
Speaker
So it's a brief summary of the film, the story, I guess. So you may want to include in there, you know, sort of the, well, the protagonist and what kind of, you know, person they are, also what is the challenge that they face and some of the journey that they follow in order to overcome that.
01:07:00
Speaker
And yeah, try and make it as punchy as possible. I've heard this kind of, you know, 25 words or less, you know, kind of a benchmark. Yeah. So what would the log line be for your short film?
01:07:15
Speaker
So for my short film I have and I'm trying to remember it precisely so just bear with me while I... Because I know we've worked on the log line for our feature and oh that's tough you know to just kind of encapsulate the whole thing in just a few words I mean that's an extremely difficult... it's like riding a haiku. Yeah it is yeah you have to
01:07:41
Speaker
Distill it and distill it and rework it. So for my short film, it's an aging woman with an acute case of imposter syndrome must slaughter her worst critic in order to pursue a promotion. It's a great line. Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Yeah, I like that. Sorry, we're all positivity here. Well, we get excited for this kind of stuff. Oh, yeah, very. That's awesome. Thank you. Let's start wrapping it up then. We have a few questions to wrap things up.
01:08:12
Speaker
Do you have any tips or tricks for our listeners to consider in any aspect of your creative life, like time management or actually getting into writing or anything like that?
01:08:26
Speaker
Well, we've talked a little bit about festivals and competitions, and whilst I'm not an expert on that by any means, I can at least share a little bit of my, you know, what I do. So I started off by just targeting the bigger festivals because I read a blog that said, just target the bigger festivals, you know, the big breaks and the titans and, you know, all these, you know, very, very
01:08:51
Speaker
high, high, highly competitive, you know, festivals. And, you know, I wasn't really
01:09:04
Speaker
kind of getting anywhere with that. And then one day, you know, when I'd written this short film that I kind of then later developed into this pilot, et cetera, I thought, you know what, I'm going to enter it into this regional competition and, you know, see how it does. And I actually got my first ever, you know, selected email because I always kind of, you get that email that goes, you know, your judging status has been updated and you go,
01:09:30
Speaker
Oh God. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to look at it, but it's going to say not selected and it said semi-finalist and I was like, Oh, okay. Um, so I think.
01:09:39
Speaker
I think it really depends what you're looking for and what you want to get out of
Submitting to Film Festivals
01:09:45
Speaker
it. So in my case, I found the more kind of indie festivals or regional festivals generally where I would kind of get a bit of traction, but then entering them into the bigger ones as well or medium-sized ones as well so that you kind of have a shot at those because you never know, you may have that script that people love.
01:10:07
Speaker
So, yeah, and I think, you know, if you see a festival where you think, you know, I like their ethos or I like what they're offering as a prize, you know, maybe it's table read, maybe it's, you know, mentorship, maybe it's getting your scripts in front of the right people, maybe it's even a cash prize, you know, whatever it is that's important to you. Yeah, so I think, you know, I guess, yeah, my advice is,
01:10:34
Speaker
know what you want to get out of it and then target them accordingly. And if you just want to go for the bigger ones and you want to get the grand prize in the big break competition, then yeah, go for it.
01:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, but just know what you want to get out of it, I guess. And yeah, I know your budget because they can be wildly different and there's some things that are free, you know? So it's worth looking around as well because there are plenty of things that you can submit to for free. Yeah. And do you have any last words of inspiration or wisdom for our listeners before we say goodbye?
Pursuing Creativity Despite Challenges
01:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, I guess, you know,
01:11:18
Speaker
just do your thing you know whether it's writing filmmaking any other kind of creative endeavor you know if you want to do it do it because if you don't do it then you know
01:11:35
Speaker
you're going to feel like you should have done it. You know, and if, if you, if you do it and you know, you write that script or you make that film or whatever, and you do something that you're proud of, then that's incredible. And you know, that's, that's, uh, yeah, more than most people get around to. So yeah, go for it. If you would like to share, um, where can people find you and possibly your content?
01:12:00
Speaker
Well, I'm on multiple, you know, writing sites. So LinkedIn is where you can see my log lines and, you know, what I've worked on, kind of a summary, I suppose.
01:12:15
Speaker
Um, and then my scripts are on various sites like, you know, stage 32, ink tip, film freeway, all these various, uh, ISA sites, you know, that, um, I may have submitted through. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I guess, you know, LinkedIn, I guess is the, the one way you'll kind of see the overview more so than the other places. Well, that's where I found you. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You've linked in.
01:12:47
Speaker
And just a big thank you from, you know, Steve and I for being on the show and I hope you hope you had a good time. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, that went really, really quickly. Yeah. And thank you. Well, that's good. Really, really appreciate the opportunity. Like I said, you know, this is putting myself out of my comfort zone as well. So so, yeah, box ticked.
01:13:09
Speaker
ticked all the boxes. Yes. And with that, yeah, I think we're wrapping up. Thanks everyone for listening to the Twin Shadows podcast and make sure you check out Kat because she's doing everything right. So you'll be, I'm sure hearing from her in the future or seeing her movies because they're going to be incredible. So with that, cut.