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TSP Ep 127 Part 1: Brainstorming About Filmmaking Or More or Less of The Same
22 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve discuss (drum roll) Dick Head some more. But! They also discuss showing or not showing actors the rough cut, working with actors, and what we will do if our feature is a failure!
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Twin Shadows Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
My ears are on. My beer is open. It is fall. We have entered fall. Welcome everyone to Twin Shadows podcast. Podcast about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers. And you're joined as always by the two hoststists with the mostest bloat, Tom and Steve, because we're drinking beer. And, you know, there's like an age where beer is just like your worst enemy.
00:00:27
Speaker
Tom and Steve. Still drinking the beer and podcasting to no one. Six years later.
Inspiration for Filmmakers
00:00:35
Speaker
I think it's been even longer than that, crazy enough. Still working on Dickhead. Nine years later. Well, I mean, speaking of that, I mean, we have, you know, we've been kind of doing these progress reports kind of thing. Like to me, I always thought the podcast,
00:00:53
Speaker
other than like the interview episodes have always kind of ended up just being more like Video like are not video or yeah audio journals is a good way to put it and it's like, you know people it's like and then we just put it out there cuz you know there might one day all this shit might matter to somebody that's kind of like why I think we should post is because That could be, if we could, if we inspire one person to make a movie that doesn't suck, that would be the greatest gift of all. Like, I don't, I'm not here to make money off this. I'm here to talk to you, you know? Yeah. And then hopefully through that and then talk to other filmmakers and other people in the creative spaces and, and yeah, so yeah.
Project 'Dickhead' and Festival Aspirations
00:01:40
Speaker
That's the hope, right? We kind of made some,
00:01:44
Speaker
Things with Dickhead, it's nice because we're in a place where we were like, well, what are we supposed to work on for Dickhead? And it's like, I was thinking about it and I was like, I don't know. I was like, you mean going forward or? No, no, no. Cause when you asked when we were going to meet, like, what did you want to work on? And I was thinking, ah I was like, well, the sound was being covered. ah Jorge's back on board. We had talked. um He was like, I'm not even ready. I got to settle into like the move cause he moved to Australia. So did you tell him like, Hey man, take your time. Cause we're still. I told him take your time. Like no big deal.
00:02:20
Speaker
If you long as you're down, you have the job of cleaning the green rectangle. If you can do the other stuff, great. But he's got green rectangle artifact duty. Well, you didn't say that's your only job and it no you just meet that. depend No, no, no, no, no. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You know, we still have other stuff we'd like your help with.
00:02:38
Speaker
Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge. Jorge.
00:02:50
Speaker
he's gonna be called george ray but you know we've we got that going on and then um You've been putting together a list of festivals that we were into and yeah some deadlines came up um Recently for that's what this is gonna be about our Festival journey thus far. Yeah, and then I think we'll probably just tangent off and have like a normal long Overly rot log episode probably which would be which are always fun. I think to me Well, I do know my cuz obviously talking about the festival in that journey but
00:03:27
Speaker
Also, I did have a, I was thinking a lot about film lately and kind of breaking it down. So I wanted to ask you some questions on that. I'll have to think about how to how to word it. That's fine, we got time. but And I figured that might lead into a subject. The beer is giving me my second wind. um But yeah, to get back on topic or to get back on track. um Well, you were saying things to work on, sorry, and then I interrupt. Yeah, so we yeah, things to work on. so this is kind of tying into the things to work on. So we, we noticed, you know, Sundance and South by Southwest were like our top targets, of course, it's like every, right. If you get into those, the chances of your film going somewhere are like grow exponentially. Yeah. um Right. Like the, the,
00:04:16
Speaker
Hope is like you get into you get into if your film premieres at sundance there's a good chance just just that alone could get you some kind of deal with the streaming a streamer. That's a street cred right slightly better than to be right that we could maybe we get you know that maybe it's like whatever the thing is right above to be maybe it's movie.
00:04:36
Speaker
You can catch us on movie. yeah You have a promo code. and it's like And then the hope is like at least we make back the budget of the film. that would be That's like the ideal dream. If it gets further than that... The ideal dream is we make some scratch, as Kevin Smith, I saw him on The OVON, we'll make some scratch on this. Yeah. Because then we could actually pay people.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah, that'd be the dream to make enough to to get back the money we invested to pay people and Then if we had some extra cash at the end of that to keep making movies to go on to the next thing Because we have stuff lined up that we want to do but it's also like money. We got to finish it to like Finishing shit and and money. I would say money's the biggest issue right? Yes Like, if all we had to do was shoot stuff and then we could afford post, that's a lot easier than us actually having to do the post, right? And also, I think once you do a movie like how once we do a movie like how you do we did Dickhead, you just think, man, I really wish we could have done that, but with a budget.
Constraints and Creativity in Filmmaking
00:05:50
Speaker
But if we had, you know, what do you mean in post or shooting? Just in everything in every aspect of it. Like, yeah, we were able to upfront like come in with like a nice camera package. I mean, we shot that whole movie with a single lens.
00:06:06
Speaker
Well, we didn't, other than the black magic. I mean, it's a zoom lens. Yeah, no, but I mean, it's right. Like we, we didn't get a lens package. it's It was one lens. Like, yeah. Right. We shot that whole movie with a single len of s lens and a single camera. And that was what we shot the whole movie with. And I guess, of course, it's, you know, like that allowed us to um have a range of focal lengths being a zoom lens.
00:06:28
Speaker
But what I mean is like, you know, it's like, hey, for this, like, let's just go forth with a 50 or a 35 or whatever, like, yeah you know, and then whatever. But like, can I ask you a question? Can you change it? Sorry. No, no, no. If you could, if we redid or let's say back in time, we're we're getting ready to shoot dickhead, but we can't get the zoom lens because that that lens cost five thousand dollars loan. Yeah. So let's say we only have like a couple thousand for a lens.
00:06:52
Speaker
And so we got to get a prime, a good prime. What would be like the focal length you would like? I imagine it's either 35 or 50 for you. Are we going full frame or micro four thirds? Well, our camera is full frame, so we would have been working full frame. So we still have the red? Yeah, this is the red, but it's just like we don't get that zoom lens. We only have a prime to work with. Yeah, because if it was if we were doing the black magic, I'd say we would have to go with probably like a 35 or something smaller.
00:07:21
Speaker
Um, so that you have to do that, that conversion rate or whatever for the micro four thirds. But I think, uh, 50, um, especially now 50, huh? I'm surprised. Especially now that I'm like, I kind of liked the wides, but I liked the ability to go tight as well. And I think 50 is nice because it looks good in both. If you're, if you do like a medium to wide shot with like you would like of a tight, right? Yeah. Or, or how you would like a tight composed, a 50 would work too.
00:07:51
Speaker
And then you can also do an extreme close-up with a 50. That kind of gives you a more intimate, interesting kind of look. It'll distort. It will distort, but I mean, if Kubrick's okay with distortion, I'm okay with it, right? Like, I always think about the... There's that documentary that his daughter made when they was doing the Shining. And...
00:08:13
Speaker
He has that big ass lens looking down at Jack Nicholson's face when he's like howling and screaming in the in the fridge. And ah he calls cut and Jack's like, isn't this giving me a face distortion, blah, blah, blah. Cooper just goes.
00:08:28
Speaker
I'm behind the camera. You're yeah are you're behind the camera or I'm behind the camera, you're in front of the camera. And he's like, you look good. It looks good, right? And it's like, you know, I always think about that too. Cause it's like, I remember when we were shooting, like the actors were like, I don't know, don't shoot me from behind or don't shoot me from this angle or something like that. Sometimes I'm just like, sometimes you just want to look at someone from behind, like, and then have the scene reveal the character or yeah something like that. Like I always like, I always think about,
00:08:58
Speaker
what do you see in the best movies ever? Well, you see ah shots or they're behind or have their faces and lit or something like that because it's there's a um a reason behind it. yeah But so often in movies that aren't good, all you see is perfectly lit, beautiful people, like yeah the perfect you know light and they're you know they have that like almost like they're always in close-ups because it's like, look at my pretty face. yeah And then in those tights, they get to do all that VFX shit because like there isn't really anything in the frame. And it's like,
Exploring Film Techniques and Artistry
00:09:30
Speaker
I feel like I'm... Well, you seem like you're more anti... Because I like my tight shots, as you know, but that's because of my photography background where that's a lot more acceptable, I think. Oh, definitely. And I know you hate the tight shot. And I think that that feeling has grown
00:09:50
Speaker
And I don't know if it existed for dickhead. I don't know if you necessarily felt that way. No, I think, well, one thing for dickhead, the reason why I liked doing the tights that we did in dickhead. Cause we did tights, right? They were probably more tight than you would like now. Oh, when I look at, when I look at like, uh,
00:10:07
Speaker
Kevin and, uh, Jennifer in their bedroom on the tights. That's too tight. I'm like, holy shit. Like I'm of the mind that I think, um, who was it? That's there's a famous director that said like you have to earn the closeup. Yeah.
00:10:23
Speaker
um And I definitely do believe that it's because because in editing to cut to a tight like that and especially if you're doing like a back and forth like tight to tight true yeah it's like you almost have to like mentally visually reset. And then also it's like what are you looking at.
00:10:41
Speaker
Are you like, their eyebrows like this 50 feet in the air. And it's like, you're looking at their beautiful face and it's like at all its glory. But then it's also, it's like theyre like, I mean, there are some types that we have. It's so tight. We don't even see the whole head. We were just like, how much chin are we going to show in this tight? You know, and it's like when we were doing kind of the reframing. Yeah, I was gonna say in respect to that, that's because we went with a two by one aspect ratio instead of the original 16 by nine. Yeah. And so we lost a lot. I don't think we ever lost anything in the 16 by nine.
00:11:09
Speaker
Maybe like one shot, one or two shots. Definitely with Chris. There are shots where it's like, he don't even have a head. And I'm like, are the top of his head's gone? But I'm like, I don't mind. One, I don't mind that. And in respect to that, he didn't hold his position. Yes. Remember how hard that was? it like Oh, very tough. Stop moving. i didn't not And I don't mind. I don't mind cutting off heads. I don't mind doing any of that. I'm all about just what?
00:11:31
Speaker
what What is working for the shot, but I do believe you kind of have to work into that and I the more I've been like kind of thinking about movies and like filming and future projects I really like this idea to of like using the camera as an editing tool in the sense that like instead of working into a a shot, reverse shot, or that kind of thing. And you move the camera, like we'll do like, you like, so the camera's movement is the edit. Yeah. So it's like, okay, now it's time to look at the other actor. Instead of like having a cut for that, you pan you pan or you you can zoom, you can pull back or you can pull in or whatever with
00:12:09
Speaker
with that while moving the camera you you pan you tilt whatever it calls for the shot and you can move from a tight to a two shot to an ultra wide if you can pull off the camera movement and i think that something about that dynamic.
00:12:27
Speaker
just makes you just absorb the scene more. And that shit, I now i was thinking about that and then I was like, you know, that's just like last year in Miranda bed. That's like the everything, right? It's like, I just think, well, you yeah you know how I am. Cut as little as possible. Yeah, I was gonna say, you're just getting more and more into longer takes. Because i I, especially when we were editing Dick and it's like,
00:12:49
Speaker
You always, it's so hard to not feel the cut sometimes. yeah And I don't want to feel, I want it to just flow like it's invisible. But sometimes it's like, you you I know you have to cut, right? You have to edit. Obviously we don't just make one take movies and I don't want that. No, because that's also boring too. Yes, that's... Or it can be. It can be, but I think it's... um You ask a lot more of the audience too, if you're like that 1917 movie. There was a film, an indie film, I think it was done recently where it's like following um some kids going out for a night on the town and of course things escalate, I believe. And they didn't have a script and it's just one continuous take. And so the director just kind of walked through them like, okay, in this scene, this is your motivations. And then they kind of just ad-libbed all the dialogue.
00:13:39
Speaker
OK, but it's just as if I remember correctly, it's literally just one take following them around. He they shot it at one take. And yeah, you know, using the camera movements to to do the edits there. And all my point is. But yeah, I just wanted to share that with you. Yeah, I mean, I I I think that's cool. I'm just kind of thinking I want to I had this tirade that we were in our chat where we were talking about where I was just like, I wanted to go off more on how much new movies suck, then I was like, eh, give it a break, dude. But then I was thinking, we just have to rebel against that as filmmakers in a sense because- We rebel with it in our work, right? Yes, exactly. It's not like, oh, fuck new movies, they all suck. It's like, no, let them have their thing. If that's how filmmakers want to do their shit, let them do it like that. Absolutely. I remember I was
00:14:37
Speaker
Damn, I'm talking a lot. I'm sorry. I do this a lot. Yeah, you do. It's okay. Sorry. It's the Tom podcast. It's the Tom podcast it is, I know. It's just because I drive all the time and all I do is just have podcasts in my head. All I do is think, well, on the podcast, I've been talking about this and this and this. It's actually for like 40 hours a week. I just have this podcast in my head, ready to go.
00:15:00
Speaker
But I'll let you talk. I'll ask. I'll set this up and then I'll let you. ah I'll give you the layup, buddy. OK, so I was thinking about like how. Just kind of let new like filmmakers just kind of do their own thing and then. People were saying like, oh, it's the death of cinemas to death of movies, people like the TikTok people like.
00:15:22
Speaker
You know, they have a shorter attention span. People are moving away from a long form entertainment to short form entertainment. And I was thinking about that now. And the only thing I was I thought i at first I was like, yeah, that's kind of shitty. Like that kind of sucks. But then at the same time, I was thinking, who cares yeah if generations like don't want to watch long form movies and they just want to watch tick tock or whatever the fuck the next thing is.
00:15:50
Speaker
That's not what I'm making movies for. Yeah. And if, and I guess you have to at one point have an audience as a filmmaker because you need to, this is a business as that's a thing about film, it's a business as well. I kind of want to get your take on how you feel about that and and ah just the aspect of like, who cares? Like we're just going to make movies the way we want to make movies because that's what we love.
00:16:16
Speaker
Well, this will certainly kind of lead into what I want to talk to you about later because we should kind of just stick with the festival. Oh, yeah, we were talking about that, weren't we? Unless you want to just kind of go on a complete tangent, I could skip to the other question. But was we'll stick with the flow of things. How about that? Yeah. And then I'll lead into you. So, you know,
00:16:37
Speaker
I don't know how true that is to what them saying like, oh, the younger generation with TikTok and all of that. Cause podcasts exist and podcasts are long. I mean, look how popular Joe Rogan is and Lex Friedman. He literally had Trump on his podcast. I mean, that's a presidential candidate doing a podcast and that's long form. You know, I literally watched a podcast he did about, um,
00:17:03
Speaker
Oh, the Roman Empire one? No, no, no. It was about Neuralink. Okay. And what Elon Musk is doing with that and exploring that. It's an eight hour long podcast. So I watched it. Or at least six hours of it.
00:17:17
Speaker
and You know, I don't know how true that is. I mean, I'm, I'm older than the younger generation, but you know, if they don't have the attention span, they're going to be on their phone anyways. I mean, I do that when I watch movies at home, I start going on Reddit while watching the movie, you know? So what? And like, kind of like you said, I mean, who cares? And, and this is what I wanted to go into because, you know, film,
00:17:44
Speaker
is its own art form and you kind of have to conform to the art form, right? You you have your parameters that you can work within in it. and so And so you're constricted by that, for better or worse, however you want to see it. But I was thinking about this recently and I was thinking about film. And film is a very, probably the newest art form that exists outside of the digital realm.
00:18:14
Speaker
Because digital, like that's it's its own thing, but it really hasn't developed. You know, it's still kind
Breaking Filmmaking Norms
00:18:20
Speaker
of mimicking very closely other things, right? Because you have like digital drawings and stuff like that, but that's kind of mimicking drawing and painting, just a digital form and whatnot. Same thing with digital movies. I mean, maybe video games, you could say is the newest art form. Yeah, that's probably right. I mean, if you were kind of like counter because it's like, um,
00:18:43
Speaker
weak if not being semantic, right? Because film is really just a combination of audio and visual, right? It's but it's combining photography and and sound into a ah thing. um But at the same time, if but video games are like, they do that, but then they add interactivity. Yeah. And that that exists in the digital space, right? You you play it digitally. Yeah. But with films, you know it it's still a relatively new art form.
00:19:11
Speaker
you know, I mean, when did the first silent, our first, yeah, silent film come out like 1920s, I guess, 1910s, maybe? I think it was the 1900s for sure. Yeah, early 1900s. So we're we're only like a hundred year, maybe more into this art form. Yeah. It's still very new. And I was thinking that like with modern films and how films are,
00:19:34
Speaker
You can see the generations of films. Like now you can see films and they're very snappy, right? There's fast edits. They're really tight. There's not a ah lot of room to just linger. um God, what film was I watching? I was watching an older film. I don't remember what it was.
00:19:51
Speaker
But they had just so many side things that would have been cut out, like just kind of hanging on a side character, doing a little something funny, and then it cut to something else. And it was like, dude, you would never have that in a modern film nowadays. ah For instance, I saw Harvey not too long ago. It's a great movie. you know ah And it's holding on certain characters that ah really you wouldn't hold on um nowadays.
00:20:15
Speaker
You know, you would have cut them, cut it short. You wouldn't linger. And older films lingered a lot, right? And and so yeah we're seeing the language of filmmaking or the artistry of filmmaking evolving and developing into its own thing. and And I was kind of thinking like, you know, I don't really think we've quite discovered what film is as an art form.
00:20:46
Speaker
Because I was also watching a Terrence Malick video essay. i don't I don't remember who it was, but it was like a 45-minute essay on YouTube. And he was just talking about like how Terrence Malick directs his films. And you know like he'll see a bird and he'll go, like let's just film in the bird and ignore the actor. And there's a reason why Malick relies so heavily on um narration, right? Because if you just go off the visuals, there's no real story. it's And also just the fact that from each image to the next image, they don't necessarily make sense. But when you see it as a whole, it comes together and it makes, it's cohesive. But I was but i really been thinking that, you know I don't think we've quite discovered
00:21:36
Speaker
what film is quite yet. We're still discovering it as we're going along. Well, I think like with, to to jump on that a little bit. Here, let me lead into you with this. so So, you know, I've kind of been exploring that concept of, you know, what what is a film? What is filmmaking? Do you need those tight cuts? Look at Tokyo story, right?
00:22:02
Speaker
That director, that movie's famous for breaking the line. He didn't give a shit about breaking the line. It was like, I don't care. This is the best composition. I'm gonna go with that. Did that bother you when you saw it? No. And there's so many rules to filmmaking and it's like, you know I don't think that's an issue. like sir Sure, if you wanna do a modern film, if you wanna make money probably and appeal to modern audiences, we we know that certain language of what filmmaking is currently. like I was even watching some movies filmed in the 90s and how different they are to now. you know And so my question, I guess, to you is how do you feel about that with what is a film? Do you do you feel like we've just we we know what it is? Well, what does it mean to you, I guess, is what I'm asking.
00:22:58
Speaker
Yeah, so I think at the heart of it, um I think it goes back to the basic elements of all of art, which is just that it's like a story. yeah um You know, if if you're telling, it ah if you're gonna make like a your ghost movie where it's like,
00:23:20
Speaker
this None of this is making sense, but it's like just exploring human nature, or if you're going to tell a story that's you know fantastical, you're telling Star Wars, right which is characters of human nature. like yeah Darth Vader ain't real. people There might be people that Darth Vader like represents throughout history, but like he's not really based on anybody in particular. yeah And while you watch something like um like gasper no way who does like really like weird kind of things but you know he like presents a scenario and then lets things play out like you could have like your climax or your uh what's the other movie he did uh enter the void um
00:24:03
Speaker
And the thing I was thinking about is like with art, you know, the easiest way to to kind of compare it is to think of the one at least I can think of is like, ah you have like painting, right? Where like, you have your eras of where everyone kind of has their thing. And there are people that that aren't that were like outside of that, right? Like you have like your van Goghs are doing whatever and then you have people doing like your um Impressionist paintings and then it goes to cubism and it goes into whatever the fuck people are doing nowadays I don't know right Jackson Pollock whatever kind of shit and people are like well How is that a painting and it's like who fucking cares? I got I think that's kind of where I've been kind of landing is like because you're like well What's a film? I'm like, I don't know. It's a story. It could be anything like I
00:24:48
Speaker
that the That's like kind of the beautiful thing about about it is um it doesn't necessarily have to be defined. And then at the same time, it does because someone has to sit through it you have to... The thing is, like i think and this is where film, I think, separates itself from every other art form, is Film has like the most involvement with people, like like painters. Maybe there's some famous like duo of painters or I don't know, you know, like I'm sure the 16th chapel was painted by a couple of people. It wasn't just Michelangelo, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I would have to look it up, but.
00:25:31
Speaker
To that respect, there ain't no film that was just, I mean, of course there was probably was a couple of films that were just made by one dude that hit record and then jumped in front of the camera, you know, James Rolf there or whatever, but we know how that works. Senna massacred his own career, you know what I mean? um
00:25:50
Speaker
But, you know, to answer the question, like, what is a film? It's like, whatever the fuck it wants to be. Like, ah I'm looking at the scripts that ah that I frame for you, and I'm thinking, like, none of those films are alike. There will be blood, alien. yeah Like, you're telling me this is the same medium? yeah Like, what? Like, one film, like even if you break down into, like, the allegories and everything, it's so is so different, right? It's like a book, and it's... It's like it's like every other art. like We try to define it because it makes it categorizable and then you can kind of sell that to people, and which is the essentially at the end of the day what you need to do with the film. At least with film specifically, right? Because guess what? The guy that did the paintings for your background or that the actress that worked in your movie, like
00:26:39
Speaker
They got to eat, right? Like, that's the thing is we don't live in this Star Trek society where people just do shit for free. Well, I mean, for us, they do. They got no choice because we're poor. um And like, I think that's what we can all strive for as like in a romantic aspect of it is like that we were all with just all for the craft for the craft. But I mean, we don't live in that world. right We live in, you know, we got to eat like, yeah, yeah, we got to eat. And, you know, the.
00:27:06
Speaker
And that's where film is ah as different. as it has There's a lot of hands in the pie, um and the pie being the project. And that's why I think film gets so messy, especially when you think about it, because I was looking at the box office results for this year. And I think Inside Out 2 is number one. It's like the highest grossing film of all time, isn't it?
00:27:31
Speaker
It's pretty, it's up there, but it's also it's also confusing because it's like, you have to consider ticket prices are like more expensive. Yeah, inflation, that's why Gone With the Wind is still number one in yeah some respects. Yeah, because I think when you look at like the number of tickets sold, but also it's like, well, also Gone With Wind was in theaters for like three years or something like that. Yeah, and it's like, what else are you gonna watch? Inside Out 2 was in theaters for two months and it made, you know, $8 billion dollars or whatever the hell it made.
00:27:57
Speaker
I mean, I think it was like 1.2 billion or something. yeah Yeah, it's an insane amount. It was a lot of money. And then I think number two is like Dune 2 or something at 400 million. and um Really? Dune 2's number two is the highest grossiness? I think so, yeah. And then like Godzilla, that Godzilla movie is like number five.
00:28:16
Speaker
Which one? The Godzilla, Kong, ah New Empire. Really? That's like the fit. It did that well. Yeah, like worldwide. Because like those movies do really big in the offshore markets. Yeah. and The non-American markets. I guess there's offshore. Well, Nolan's got to be up there, right? ah Barbie came out. Oh, that was last year. Oh, OK.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, so like this year because I was looking at like this year like it's been rough It's been like and I think this year is kind of like ah a paradigm shifter in the sense that like a lot of these Franchise movies they later need to get a lot better or they need to figure it out because like I don't think there's like any real like Marvel movies in the top ah Yeah Deadpool and Wolverine. Oh, that's number two. Yeah. Yeah and um But that's like a huge deal of a movie, right? Like, I think it had like, and those movies are so expensive. And it's also like, you have the legacy of Hugh Jackman playing as Wolverine. They have the most insane cameo. I haven't seen it, but- I haven't seen it either. You got the most insane cameos. You got all this shit that like people that have been like absorbed in this shit are gonna go see that movie. But then how many people- Even though we have it.
00:29:27
Speaker
I mean, I've checked out so hard on that like stuff. And I was thinking about, it was so funny, because I was thinking like the only movies I really want to see in theaters are horror movies now, because I know those at least- I do want to see Megapolis.
00:29:40
Speaker
I do too, but that's different. And I really want to support Coppola because it's like, dude, we we need more movie. it Maybe it's a stinker. It looks visually beautiful. It kind of reminds me of Bram Stoker's with the visuals. Do you care about all the Coppola as an evil dude kind of shit? No. Or he's like supports like people that like fuck kids and stuff. He's an artist, man. I mean, like I said, my one of my mentors said maybe that's the only thing these people can offer society.
00:30:09
Speaker
It's very optimistic. Yeah, it's very sorry optimistic. But you know like if you're gonna hate every art, if you're gonna hate an art piece because of the artist, then what the fuck, who are you gonna like?
00:30:22
Speaker
No, but I mean, that's it. That's the thing too is, uh, damn, there's so much shit I read and that I think about. And then I'm like, we got to type out on the podcast. Um, like if people, you know, people always have talking about like, Oh, the new generation doesn't want to see nudity or sex scenes in movies. Even though that's kind of making a comeback as of late, these I feel like it, she I really want to see that substance movie. Have you heard about that? I heard about it. Karen wants to see it, but also there's a movie with Nicole Kidman that just came out. I think it's in festivals and it's supposed to be real sexual.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah, you know, because... Yeah, it's supposed to be pretty heavy on the sex. Good, because I'm kind of glad that that's kind of coming back, because I was a big fan of those erotic thrillers from the 90s, like single white female. It's actually every Michael Douglas movie that came out in the 90s. I was thinking of all the Michael Douglas films. He was the king, like if Arnold was the king... Because he was a basic instinct, right? Basic instinct. What's the other one he did with Glenn Close? He also did... What's that movie called? Indecent Proposal? No.
00:31:21
Speaker
What's the one that he did with Glenn Close? That's not single white female? No. The one, I think it's, is it a decent proposal? No, that's where a guy pays a dude's wife to sleep with him for like a million dollars. That's right. What's the one where? No, I know which one you're talking about where she boils a rabbit. Yeah. What's that movie called?
00:31:41
Speaker
Single white female. That's what they'll do, man. Fuck them over, bro. They're gonna kill your pets. I'll be careful with those single white females, I'll tell you. No, single white females with... Not Meg Ryan. But yeah, that's a good... That's always the one I think about because I like that one. It's pretty good. That's the one where she moves in. She's like a crazy roommate.
00:32:02
Speaker
um She's like, damn, I can't remember who's in that movie. But yeah, like there's like, although like the 90s were interesting because it had, that that's what kind of what the best movies were, were the thrillers. Well, there's that Viggo Mortensen movie too where he ah broke out because it's um with Diane Lane? No, maybe? Unfaithful? Yes, I believe. Isn't it Michael Douglas in that? He might be. He was in every, all of these. Yeah, well,
00:32:30
Speaker
The guy hires Vigo to ah kill his wife, I believe, and then he seduces her. And that was a huge one because it was pretty graphic. Like he makes her have a shaky orgasm and everything like that. Go Vigo. Yeah, go Vigo. Once you go Vigo, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know, that's why Liv Tyler was so pissed. Let me ask you this then. So then what is film to you and then where do you discover what that is for your films? is it Is it something that you discover like what the film is as you're working on your individual projects? like
00:33:11
Speaker
To me- Where does that come into play? The core and this is- Is it always like, this is how I see films and this is how all my films are going to be, or is it a discovery as you're kind of going along with the individual film? I think I can boil it down pretty quick, easily for you. um To me, film has always been an experience. It's one of the reasons why I like going to the theater.
00:33:31
Speaker
ah and seeing it in a theater. I mean, I don't go to the movies. I was just saying you never go to the theater. and I mean, it's not because I don't want to. I can't i would yeah i would i'd be in it every week if I could. I'd be there twice. I'd see every movie that came out if they didn't suck. That's what I used to do for a while.
00:33:49
Speaker
I was trying to, and then I think I saw just a string of bad movies, and I was like, it ain't worth the time anymore, and it ain't worth the money. That's why you go to a theater that has beer, or wine, if you're into that. Yeah. cause i think Because like when I saw Dune 2, I was like, dude, oh when we saw Mandy, like these are like revelations to me when like when we saw Underwater yeah in theaters, when we saw um First Man. First Man. For me, nope was a big one. Nope.
00:34:17
Speaker
ah What was the other one I saw in theaters? recent I'm thinking more recently too. ah Long Legs in theaters was really good. Oh yeah, you saw that in a theater. It's like a different experience, but and the whole thing is like, it's an to me, film is like an experience. It's gonna make you feel something. There's a certain interactivity with film, huh? Yes, and it's and it asks... The best films ask something of the audience. It asks something of you. It does. It asks just for your a little bit of your investment of your attention attention. The best films do. And then the thing is like the worst films are like the fun films don't ask anything of you. They just ask you to have other than having a good
Theatrical Experience and Film as Interactive Art
00:35:00
Speaker
time.
00:35:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I think those films are just as valuable. And I think that it's a different skill to make that kind of movie, too. Oh, absolutely. From making a Tarantino film to ah We Ahu Balthazar or La Aventura or whatever. Completely different kind of skill set. Tarantino would never be able to make La Aventura. If he did a shot for shot remake, it wouldn't be the same movie.
00:35:25
Speaker
Well, wasn't that Gus Van Sant who did Psycho remake? Yeah. And it was like shot for shot. Yeah, but it sucks. Exactly. And you're like, but it's the exact same thing, but... But what happened? I don't know. I don't know. I never saw it. And I watched it. I remember watching because that movie fucked me up when I was a kid. Wasn't the cast?
00:35:45
Speaker
It could be the cast, it could be, you know, the and color, the color ah sets aren't exactly the same, right? Like... The sets were amazing in the original. The thing is, you know, there's so much... Like when he's in the lobby with her, right? And they're having that conversation and it's cutting to the ah Animal heads on the walls, I believe. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, and oh, dude, we'll have we cycle we're gonna cover. Yeah, there you go The next episode and I really want to do like a maybe a watch along commentary for the like podcast episode I think that'd be really you should research it though. and I don't want to like be I read a book on it I don't want to be Mystery Science Theater
00:36:25
Speaker
No, I read a book on Psycho. So I know a lot of shit. Did you read it or did you hear it? I listened to it. Well, because I don't have time to read. I'm glad I got you a book for your birthday. I know, I was thinking about that. It kind of makes me depressed. Hey, you go to the bathroom, right? It takes me an hour. It doesn't take me an hour. I don't have an hour. You need a lot of fiber. I have less than three hours a day, Monday through Friday.
00:36:54
Speaker
I guess I could take out time on the weekend to do it, but that that's normally when I'm watching in movies and doing shit like that, spending time with my family. Yeah, because I try to do like an hour for a family time, Monday through Friday, and then bathe. Yeah, that's it, just an hour. That's all I got. I got shit. Your your schedule is so fucking packed. Yeah. Yeah, I can tell you. I get up at 4.30. I get home at 6. I feed the kids.
00:37:21
Speaker
They have 4.30 to, so then that's like what, a 13 and a half hour? Yep. Just devoted to work? Yeah, if i'm if traffic is good, I can get home at 5.30 and then I have a 30 minute to kind of relax and then I'll make dinner or I'll help Katie make dinner or whatever. And then after dinner, I wash up the shit, take the kids in, do bath with them, bathe myself, get them in bed, go to bed. That's Monday through Friday. That sucks. That's all I do.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yep, if I'm not in bed by eight, i won't because i need the if I'm in bed by eight, I'll fall asleep by nine. Yeah. And then I'll get like six hours or seven hours of sleep and then I'll wake up and do it all over again. Jesus. And that's my life.
00:38:06
Speaker
And then, you know, I just listen to books and shit on the drive. So about my question. Yeah. So some to use a psycho. But yeah, I wanted to talk about that because there's a I know a lot of shit about that but that movie now that is just so fascinating that we can talk about. There's so much controversy in that movie. I had no idea. um So essentially, ah Hitchcock i and this is something I didn't really know. ah Vertigo was a huge failure when it came out.
00:38:33
Speaker
Oh, really? like And that's considered his best, right, by a lot of people? like It was on the sight and sound like number one. It was like number one for like 20 years or 30 years or something. Really? Vertigo. Yeah, Vertigo. it's like It was like the number one movie and then it got replaced by that Jean de Chanel 243 or whatever. That French movie, that two and a half hour French movie, that's just about the life of a female, like a French prostitute that's just like a day in the life. It's like four hours long.
00:39:01
Speaker
Really? Yeah, they like people are like, oh, it's so you know, and I remember I tried to watch it. I started it and I was like, I'll have to wait. It's French. It's too long. It's just one of those movies where it's like... It's French. Maybe it's like three and a half hours or something. I mean, look at Man Eats Dog. I loved it, but I was like, damn, this is fucking French. Yeah, I like French films. I like non-American films a lot. I've been watching a lot of Japanese films too. Oh, Japanese films. Big recommend for the podcast if you guys are listening, Tam Popo.
00:39:32
Speaker
Oh, Tampopo. So good. I don't know if I've seen it, but I know the title. So fucking good. Oh, my God. I think about that movie all the time. on What's it about? It's about a woman whose husband passes away and she's trying to keep their ramen shop afloat. And two truck drivers who have seen it travel around that on their truck stop, they stop at random ramen shops and they read books about making ramen and they essentially like coach this woman into becoming better at ramen.
00:40:01
Speaker
And there's all these weird intercuts about Japanese people traveling around the world and like introducing people to ramen. and it's like And there's this wonderful scene that's so cool because like ramen is like a very slurpy kind of thing. And this Japanese guy and one of the intercuts is this Japanese guy in an Italian restaurant in Italy, and he's slurping his spaghetti or his pasta. And people are like, Oh my God, it's what the hell is wrong with this guy? Because he's eating like ramen. And then eventually everyone there's not I don't think there's a single line of dialogue. It's just
00:40:38
Speaker
And then if people are looking and then a kid does it and then the parents smacks them and then the Japanese guys select and then the ah a couple other people go and then the whole restaurant is slurping their fucking noodles. That's great. But yeah, and the whole thing is like the woman, right? She's going through like these reps where they're like, okay, you know, like pick up the the pot, get over here, putting the thing, blah, blah. Because the whole thing is like, it's a ah sign of respect that they, the bowl is empty when it's returned to them. Yeah, also slurping, I believe is a sign of respect. Yeah, it's because they're eating it so fast. And there's a scene that, that ah other than the the Italian slurping scene, there's ah an intercut that is like, it's so well done. And I can't eat ramen the same since I watched it. And ah it's,
00:41:22
Speaker
ah the proper instructions on ramen eating. And it's like ah a master ramen eater is sitting with this kid and he's just like, well, master, raman how do you do it? Like, what's the thing? And he's like, well, first you stroke.
00:41:39
Speaker
um but You stroke the noodles slowly. You must respect it. And then you take the pork and you pick it up and you slide it under the noodles. You don't eat the pork yet. Do not dare eat the chasoo yet. And then it's like, he was like, do you start with noodles or do you start with the broth? And he and and the the master's like,
00:42:01
Speaker
Well, this is of some, you know, there there's there's some theory on this on what you should do. And he's like, well, properly, I say you pick up the bull, you sit three times, and then you get the noodle. and it's like it It just goes into it. It's like a long as he I go for the chassis right away, man. But.
00:42:23
Speaker
I will say you'll never eat ramen again after you watch that movie, and it's the same way. and I don't know if I've seen it. i That might have been on my list to see. like I highly recommend it. For a while, like when Netflix used to do the DVDs, or if they still do. but and That might have been on my list, and I just i don't know if I've seen it or not.
00:42:40
Speaker
I have ah three movies I'm watching this weekend. If anyone wants to do a, well, no one will listen, but if anyone listened to listen this episode, if you want to watch along and we can, um, I'm going to watch three movies this weekend. That's my goal. What's your plan? I'm going to watch Phantom of the paradise, which I was watching on an airplane and I didn't get to finish it and I really want to watch it. So Brian De Palma film, it's like Phantom of the opera. Oh, okay. Except it's done in a like.
00:43:06
Speaker
weird acid rock style kind of thing where it's like, guy is, he does it records for, he's he wrote an opera for this huge record company they're gonna put on a show, but they put this cocky guy in the role of the woman that's supposed to be in it and he breaks out and murders everybody and and the whole audience just thinks they're in on it and then the opera people are like, well, they like it, cool.
00:43:31
Speaker
That kind of shit's going, I don't know. It's interesting, it's weird. And then I'm gonna watch Vanishing Point, which is this like Tarantino-recommended car movie from the 70s. Oh, okay. About a job that this guy that's driving a Dodge Charger, Challenger, something, I don't know. That one sounds real familiar. um And then the third movie I really want to watch is... um is ah oh ah Oh, as ah Dario Argento's Bird with the Crystal Plumage. Oh, that's a classic. Which I have never seen. and it's I've never seen it. I think I rented it and then never watched it. Okay. But I mean, I've always heard of that one. I have two for me. Okay. Not to say I'm going to watch it this weekend. But point break, I want to watch that again. The Patrick Swayze one? Uh-huh. Because the cinematographer, she's the one who did Hurt Locker. That's James Cameron's wife, our ex-wife.
00:44:26
Speaker
yeah And she did a lot of like, uh, she's the director alongside a photographer. She's a cinematographer and she did a lot of, uh, um, I don't know. I don't want to say revolutionary things, but essentially like the camera they used was this camera they invented to get some of the tight handheld shots.
00:44:46
Speaker
It's a great movie actually. Yeah, it's actually really good. So I wanted to rewatch that because I hadn't seen it since I was a kid because my cousins loved it. ah my ah Sean and his brothers, the Bonias, man, they loved that. And so we'd watch it like every weekend. So I want to see that again. And then I want to see Wings of Desire.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah, you were talking about that and I was like, yeah, that's on my list too. I have a lot of movies I want to watch. And they did a remake of it. It's with ah Nicholas Cage. It's with angels who are watching humans. And then one of the angels falls in love with it.
00:45:18
Speaker
with a woman, and I guess he goes back to Earth. um And so that's all I know. I think I might've seen the Nicolas Cage one, I think, ah but of course. It wasn't that Los Angeles movie, right? Angels in Los Angeles? Actually, i it might've been, yeah. Oh, then I've seen that one. Where they're wearing like black trench coats and shit. Yeah, that's Wings of Desire. and that Oh, okay. Yeah. Which makes sense, right? Wings, angel wings, desire, falling in love with some female, and Peter Falk's in it.
00:45:47
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I don't know who he plays or anything. I tried watching it, but I couldn't get subtitles. But I understood his section, because that was in English. So I really want to watch that one. That's like the ones I'm really itching to watch. Yeah, there's a film. That reminds me of another movie that I've been wanting you to watch. I don't think you've watched it yet. It's A Matter of Life and Death. I really, really, really want you to watch that movie. Did you tell me to watch that? I did a while ago, like probably years ago by now.
00:46:16
Speaker
But but ah that's the one that I think I i and really, really need you to watch it. It's by um the guys that did Red Shoes. Oh, no shit. Okay. Then it's going to be amazing. I remember I was, I i was like, kind of, after we watched Red Shoes, I was like obsessed with those guys. I watched like all their movies. Do you know the order they did it? Well, like, cause Red Shoes was their first, right? I don't think it was their first cause they made movies in the thirties and then Red Shoes, I think came out in the forties. Cause Red Shoes. And then I know later they did a Peeping Tom. yeah So where does this film fall? Was it after that? After Red Shoes. Oh, after Red Shoes. So it's in the middle.
00:46:50
Speaker
Before Peeping Tom or something? Because I think it's like post-World War II. Oh, wow. that Those like films around that time are very weird, I think, because a lot of those films, it's like... So influenced by it. Casablanca is so weird in the sense because... That film came out before World War II ended. Yeah. It came out in 42. And when you think about it, and they're like, oh, these concentration camps aren't so good. They had no idea yet. Yeah. And also, what if the Nazis won, right? Yeah, and it's like... a
00:47:22
Speaker
You know, wait, sorry. ah Please forgive us, we're just actors. Yeah, no, you know, they'd kill that guy. Uh, fucking Sam, you bastard. You know, like you're the Sam Merlot or Sam Merlot or whatever that guy's name is. Um, Merlot. I can't, no, it's not his name. Sam. I didn't know Sam's last, had a last name.
00:47:45
Speaker
I think they're it's said once in the movie. Oh, okay. Play it again, Sam. All I remember is there's a ah movie called Fade to Black,
00:47:57
Speaker
um which is about this guy that's obsessed with movies, and he bets it's what Mickey Rourke's first movie, maybe? Oh, wow. Mickey Rourke's like a punk asshole. He's like a bully to this kid that's a film nerd who dresses up like famous film characters and murders people.
00:48:14
Speaker
but what yeah And ah he asks them as like a bet. He's like, and because because they work at a film distribution or like a film reel like kind of like storage house. And and everyone there is obsessed with the movies. The whole movie is about people being obsessed with movies kind of thing.
00:48:33
Speaker
And he meets this woman who looks exactly like Marilyn Monroe, but she's from Australia. Of course. And he falls in love with her because, and he calls her Marilyn and shit like that. And she's like kind of ditzy. The kid. The kid. Yeah. and Who's been murdering people. Yes. Okay.
00:48:49
Speaker
After he dresses up and pretends that I guess he's like he and he talks like old Filmmakers, but in a bad way and it's kind of funny and charming but at the same time it's like It's kind of creepy cuz you think like oh, yeah That's what that Joker kind of kid where that Joker guy was I shot up the the theater and that's like kind of like I don't know Oh really cuz well this hat this came out in the 80s So way before all that shit. yeah um But Fade the Black, highly recommend. It's a really fun movie. um But he asks Mickey Rourke's character who's like an asshole. He's like, you know, if you can tell me then the name last name of Sam's character in Casablanca, you know, I'll give you a hundred bucks.
00:49:30
Speaker
yeah And the guy's like, I've seen that movie back and forth 25 times. I had the reel at home, blah, blah, blah. It's like Mickey Rourke. like yeah like You're super young, Mickey Rourke. He's probably 20. And when you see him, you're like, damn, Mickey Rourke, what the fuck happened, bro? You got hit in the face a lot, because that thing was fucking handsome as fuck. Oh, I remember. He was always on the like ah most beautiful people alive and all that shit. yeah i was a big I'm a big fan of Angel Heart.
00:49:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm, which is uh, I never got into it. I tried watching I was like this movie sucks Fuck this although it had a the Bill Cosby Daughter not van is a vanity. No, um, I want to say Lisa bone is a bonnet. Yeah, not bad Jesus. She's Lisa Bonet. She's so beautiful. She's very naked in that in that movie Yes, she is that I always compare it to another movie, but I can't say what I compare it to because it's spoiler. I Oh, so I should finish Angelheart? I know De Niro's in it. I was like, what's De Niro? Like, what is this? What am I watching? I remember because I watched it. Oh, this voodoo bullshit. It was on my noir list when I was watching every noir I could get my hands on. Oh, yeah, when you guys did that, right? Yeah, and I think we watched like 100 noir films for like... Jesus, that's cool. And yeah, it turns out, yeah, you know, that movie's great. I love it. And it's... So I should just...
00:50:59
Speaker
power through it. You have to give it its due because it kind of takes a while to get going because the movie doesn't make any sense until like the very end. I think I stopped like 20, 30 minutes and I was like, eh, I'm not vibing this. Remember how we were saying like some of the best movies don't ask too much of you just to like kind of sit and enjoy it? Just pay attention. This movie asks a lot of you because you're like, okay, this guy's playing that and then this guy's this.
00:51:27
Speaker
What the fuck? Yeah. Cause I won't spoil what I'm going to spoil. That makes me want to watch it now. When you watch and want to go through it when you watch it, there's a movie that it is almost it is very similar to. And that's one thing I kind of love about watching old movies.
00:51:47
Speaker
Is you like see the inspirational inspirations that's like oh my god like How unoriginal these fuckers are right? Yeah, it's uh, it's a park Chan Wook film It's a korean film and you're like those fuckers just were ripping this off. Oh, yeah Oh, that's another one. I really want to see is the Chongqing express. That's oh, it's on the criterion. Is that Park Chan Wook?
00:52:10
Speaker
and I don't know who it is. I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. There's like a couple films on the criterion list where I'm like, we really got to get back into this because I really want to fucking watch Paris Texas. I was going to say my big one is Paris Texas. I really want to watch Paris Texas. I want to watch that movie for like a decade now. and i'm like Well, it's on the criteria list. Sometimes I think like, you know, fuck it it. If it's on the list, I don't give a shit. I just want to see it now. Yeah, because I've been like, I know I can't wait. I'll just wait. I'll wait. We'll watch it someday. yeah I'll be on my deathbed like we need to get back into because it was so educational. It really is. And also, it's just it's it's educational and
00:52:51
Speaker
It's really nice just kind of like having a focused film to talk about in a sense where we're like really kind of um thinking about like why the film works and what doesn't work. Cause I was looking at back at the ah ratings and I was like, we gave Morena Bad like a five. Like that movie's like a fucking perfect film. Like what are we doing? No, Morena Bad deserved it. I mean, it's very Morena Bad, you know, like with the capital B. Makes me think of Close Up.
00:53:20
Speaker
But when you think about it, I think about those shots in that movie. That's some of the most gorgeous photography ever. And we said that at the time. We were like the cinematography in this film is possibly in set design are the castle or mansion it's at the villa, whatever. Yeah. Some of the most beautiful, the most beautiful ever, if anything. Right. I mean, we're in a bad literally.
00:53:44
Speaker
possibly the most beautiful film. It's definitely one of, like, cause I was thinking about, um, when I was thinking about Dickhead and I was thinking about black bad sounds natural the black and white.
00:53:57
Speaker
Because, yeah, I saw that big turtle the day and, you know, when we were going to do... The big turtle of the day? No, the turtle. Oh, the turtle. I saw the tortoise, I was just... The turtle. And I was like, dude, that's not real. Because I remember when we were going out to Vegas to do the... Actually to shoot Scene 1, because we never actually shot Scene 1.
00:54:18
Speaker
We only ever shot like scene two. Because scene one was supposed to be this big thing. No, we did shoot scene one. No, we never did. Not yes not with what's her face. That's always scene two is in the bathroom. But scene one has a stand in who is Kylie. Which was like two shots. Yeah, that's all scene one was. Yeah. It just naturally leads right in. It was like the Tarantino rip.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah, because it was just, we follow her feet around the house. Yeah, and she goes to the bathroom and then boom, scene two. Yeah. And then scene one just got completely, well, we rewrote it, right? We rewrote it. Yeah. And we were just like, we got to have like a story here so that people kind of know who this character is. Because I love this, i and this is one thing I do love about ah Dickhead is like, we have these characters and they kind of haunt the movie.
00:55:08
Speaker
Yeah, in a sense. And I kind of like that, and especially in the new in the in the in the picture lock, is that we we focus on Jennifer a lot more because everything's a lot tighter. But like all the side characters are kind of like, they kind of just haunt the movie a bit. And then you have, and then there's like this act two kind of like turns all that on its head because Jennifer kind of then leaves the movie for a bit.
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah, literally, and then every almost all of that too, right? Yeah, and then all these character and then we just spend all the time with like all these characters that have kind of been lingering around, which is, I thought oh i think it's like, oh, that's really kind of cool. That's really kind of, like what we did was pretty cool.
00:55:49
Speaker
And I can get back into, then this will kind of lead into... Well, I still want to hear about films and your approach on filmmaking and what a film is. But yeah, so like, well... But to continue this cover, this tangent here. Yeah. But you know, I was thinking about that and I was like, you know, that's pretty cool. And then I was thinking about like, Marina Bad and then The Tortoise, because when we were out to Vegas,
00:56:10
Speaker
We took the long way around. Yeah, I showed you my the route I like to take. Yeah, which is like almost like the down 29 palms, like way around like that. We didn't go through Joshua Tree. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, we took the 40, right? The 40. The 40. Yeah. Like Laughlin up to Stateline, essentially, where I lost my goddamn debit card, which is which kind of sucked.
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah, whiskey pizza. And I'm like, don't worry, buddy. I got it. I got it. Thank God I had money
Las Vegas Adventure and Filmmaking Reflections
00:56:40
Speaker
at the time. No, I just used my credit card, I think, too. Oh, yeah, you did. You were like, no, I got my credit card. I was like, no, Tom, don't use the credit card. But, you know, then we dropped acid and went to Vegas, and that was like the greatest experience ever. It was, man. I think about that experience a lot. That was like, it was so great. Very often. Yeah, that was like a huge just reset. Like... Well, just, I mean...
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, man, I mean, that was just such a powerful experience, so surreal and just like magical. It really was. Especially when you think about it. It was just this magical, beautiful thing we did. We just wandered around, like, we fucking... It was fear and loathing in Las Vegas, really, in a nutshell, like contained within a few hours. Yeah, it was, well, a whole night. Yeah, but I mean, fear and loathing, like, takes place over, like, weeks, days. Yeah, because of Derby and all that shit. Yeah, but for us, it was like one night.
00:57:35
Speaker
fucking finding the American dream and going to the darkness. Well, I just remember, dude, it was so crazy. That night was so nuts, because we were just wandering around. I just remember I would look at people's eyes. Yeah, man, that was scaring me, man. No one's got a fucking soul here, dude. That shit was scaring me bad. Like, all these people are just like, we're just living with these fucking NPCs, dude. Like, holy shit, this is what real life is? Like, none of these people- I'm getting some weird vibrations here. Yeah, and I was like, these fucking people, you know, like, goddamn bats.
00:58:07
Speaker
like Everywhere. Yeah, and it was fucking crazy. And then we went to that fucking restaurant. We tried to find a goddamn Singapore sling or something. Yeah, we went on a journey for that. And then ah that lady brought a Singapore slings and she was like, well, this is the bartender said it's like this, like, this is a fucking Singapore sling. You're my goddamn fucking umbrella in this drink.
00:58:27
Speaker
And then we just chugged him and walked out. We didn't even pay. And it was like- Yeah, we walked out. Yeah, it was like, dude, that was crazy. It was so fucking, like, I've never done that in my life. Me either. I've never dined and dashed, essentially. No, we just were like, this ain't no fucking Singapore Slingu. We chugged that way, we left. We ain't paying for this shit. And it was fucking crazy, dude. And then we were just walking around. I had no idea. And then we just, you lost you thought you lost your phone, but it was in the car the whole time. It was fucking crazy. It was wild night.
00:58:57
Speaker
I remember I lost you for a bit and I was just like, yeah, he'll come back. Yeah, he went to the bathroom. I got lost. And then the bartender came and said, hey, I think your buddy's not okay. And I was like, what? That bartender that we were chatting with all night. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, you got to go find him. And I was like,
00:59:17
Speaker
what And then I look and you're just like standing in the fucking a bathroom, like looking in the mirror or something, dude. I was just like, I was just tripping. I was like, dad, let's. No, yeah, when I went to that bathroom, dude, I got lost, man. I was like, let's go eat. Because I was super drunk too at that point. Oh, we had been drinking all night. Finally, the alcohol caught up to me, plus everything else. And I just kind of, I got really fucking lost in there, man. Because I came out, I was like, Tom's gone. and where where i I was sitting there waiting for you to come to the damn little diner that they had. Yeah, you ditched me for a hamburger. I was waiting for you. I didn't know you were in there. In there? It was like four in the morning. you were just like I was just sitting there like, I don't know where he went, but I'm sure he's with the you know he's with God. you know
01:00:06
Speaker
He found that tortoise. No, but yeah, i think it was yeah yeah yeah and all came down to that tortoise. and the tortoise finally found you. And we did the work, you know, we, uh, we shot all the little, shit I mean, I think I do regret that we, uh, we didn't get everything that we wanted. We fucked up. And it was like, we fucked up because we drank on the job and everyone did too. Well, that and also it was like,
01:00:35
Speaker
And then we rushed it. Everyone was like, let's just get it all done the night. And it was like, we had we had we went against our own schedule. Cause we had given ourselves two days to do everything. And we were ah we were ahead of schedule and that's why everyone was like, well, let's just get it done. Let's just get it done. And then, well, I mean, in a sense, everything kind of, everything worked out. I mean, i don't i you know you don't ever want to live with regrets because you don't You never know, like we probably would have cut it anyway. like Now there's no way we would have cut the shot that we had originally planned to shoot. I could talk about that a bit since Steven stepped out. And we probably talked about this a lot. I apologize if ah you've heard this story a million times, but we essentially had this big long one-er with Grace where she,
01:01:33
Speaker
playing the role of Karen. She sits on the bed and she has a telephone conversation with Jennifer, because at this point, I'm not sure if we had decided that scene three was a cut. I think we had, and I kind of had written around ah written around that,
01:01:55
Speaker
um so that we kind of filled in the gaps because, Losing scene three was like kind of like this big deal. And if you listen to our podcast at all, you know, we've talked about scene three a lot, like in how much of a loss it was. And when we were doing the reshoot, I've seen one and two with Karen and Grace playing Karen. We kind of filled in the gaps a bit, having that telephone conversation, um just to kind of like help fill in what we were missing, like the important beats
01:02:29
Speaker
of that scene for what you need to know. So we already knew we were gonna lose scene three by that point. I feel like we did. At least that's, if not, then we're just like really lucky. No, we didn't. Cause when did we do the reshoots? Was that after Vegas?
01:02:48
Speaker
Well, the no you mean after the cabin? No, after Vegas. Cause remember we did reshoots with Marianne in, suzanne Yes, that was way after. ah Okay, so then we knew by then? Probably. I feel like it was kind of like, how the fuck did... Because i guess we did the reshoots and then it was just like, yeah, this ain't gonna work. And it didn't we didn't use anything. Yeah, and that was kind of where...
01:03:15
Speaker
It's kind of like a big, well, the thing is, especially with Dickhead, and ah we learned, hopefully we learned a lot of lessons and that we actually learned, and we followed through with what we learned in a sense where- Only time will tell on that one. I will say, we're like especially with the reshoots, it was kind of like,
01:03:36
Speaker
A lot of that was kind of like Hail Mary's, in a sense. Like, but well, if only this would have worked. And then we tried to kind of, we tried whatever we could functionally manage to work, to get to work. And it's like, no. Yeah, it don't work. No, it don't work. But the biggest reshoot did work, which was scene one and two. Yeah, bringing in grace, play care. That did work. So we can't knock our reshoots that much. No, but at the same time,
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, it was like, I think that, it's just, I think, damn, sorry, a little drunk. Me too. Bringing, yeah, these bears are strong. and Did you try the coffee one yet? I wanted you to try that one. Oh, there's a, I'm trying great pumpkin, imperial pumpkin ale. Oh, that one's like 12%. So be careful with that one. I got,
01:04:30
Speaker
Two more. And they're both like eight or nine percent. And they're like warm now. ah ah yeah They got a little chill, but um maybe we pop them in the freezer. But yeah, like, no, bring it in. I mean, I mean, I love Grace. I'm a big fan of Grace. Well, yeah, she saved our asses. How many times? yeah you know She always came in. She's like literally that one person. It's like.
01:04:57
Speaker
You know, Grace is special at again, another tangent, but she's special for us in the sense that, you know, I feel comfortable. If we go to her and ask her to help us, she will, and she'll deliver. Yes. You know, and that's like a beautiful thing. Like there's going to be no judgment where I feel with others. It'd be like, are you fucking serious? You didn't do this right the first time is like, no.
01:05:26
Speaker
I'm not going back, you fucking asshole. Whereas with Grace, it'd be like, oh, you guys didn't get it? Sure. I'll come by. And she did, right? Literally she did when we did reshoots with her. Yeah. Yeah. The level of comfort with her, you know, where. And I think and that's an invaluable trait to have as a filmmaker, especially as a filmmaker with an actor. An invaluable thing to have, right? With an actor. Yeah. Yeah. Because a big thing is like, um,
01:05:54
Speaker
we kind of were like, yeah, we fucked up. We fucked up in Vegas. We all know we should have not rushed at all that night. And then it kind of, it showed and it it shows that bad. We've a thing is like, I don't even know what the extra we were going to do, but I mean, I'm just thinking of the edit now and how well it works
Improving Suspense and Film Execution
01:06:14
Speaker
now. Yeah. Well, the extra, well, it works a lot better now because I think it builds more suspense. Yeah. We, we sacrifice suspense for,
01:06:23
Speaker
what is essentially like a twist. um Because the idea was, yeah I don't know, I can talk about it. My guys can talk about it since it doesn't exist. It's our film, so we can talk about it. So we have this long runner. Please tell me, because I kind of forgot. Grace goes into the bathroom. She's preparing the bathtub because, you know, she's got all that pumpkin guts on her, long day, she's tired, she just kind of wants to relax in the bath. Have a nice bath after a long day. Yeah.
01:06:51
Speaker
and The idea was, so we have this master shot that we're just watching everything in this wide. Is this the initial approach to it? Or is this, are you tired strictly about what we actually captured? No, this is the initial approach. Okay. So we have this wide. Walk me through it. We have this master shot, right?
01:07:12
Speaker
where we are watching her kind of, she has her conversation with Jennifer on the bed. She gets up, she goes in, strips her clothes, she gets in the bath. But while she's stripping her clothes, we were supposed to cut to a profile shot of her undressing while hiding in the POV. We were supposed to cut to a POV. Oh, that's what we cut completely. Because we never shot it. Yeah.
01:07:39
Speaker
we rushed it and we never finished the night. And we were just like, oh, we got it. Just leave it off screen. Which works better. It works better, but it, let's just say, I'm just saying, regardless of whatever happens, if this is, and this is one thing I was thinking about too, because when I was doing, and this will kind of bring it back to, and they bring it all the way back at the beginning, when we were talking about getting ready for the Sundance stuff, where I was just, I've been thinking a lot about where it's like,
01:08:08
Speaker
I don't necessarily even know what's like, what's better. It's just like, it's like things just work or they don't work. And when things work, that there's ways to make the things that are working better, but it's really hard to know to get to the working part. I think that's where filmmakers struggle is a lot of filmmakers try to make things work and they don't get there.
01:08:34
Speaker
but Well, yeah, I think that's every film that isn't executed correctly, right? Yeah, but you see the. The thought process behind it, right? Yeah, because it's not because it's not like a ah better or worse, because like, especially when you're editing, there's just there are sometimes where it's like, yeah, this is better. Yeah. But then there are sometimes where I'm like.
01:08:56
Speaker
These are kind of like the same thing but different. Like what's working, what's working? They both work. Okay, so we have these two things that work. The Sophie's choice, right? Right, we have these, or sometimes it's even more than two, right? We have these things that work. Now, what are you trying to portray? What are we trying to execute here? What best captures that, yeah. Yeah, and then that's where the better comes in.
01:09:24
Speaker
And we were preparing um because we were going to submit to Sundance, which we missed the deadline for. Well, spoilers. Spoilers. Yeah, we're going. So to get back to the beginning, um you know, we were looking at festivals and our two top targets, of course, are Sundance and South by Southwest. Go ahead. Film.
01:09:45
Speaker
What does it mean to you? And then how do you approach that with your individual films? Because I want to complete that ah that. Because I've really been thinking a lot about this. Like the idea that I think film is such a new medium that I don't think it's fully evolved into understanding what it is. Like sculpture, you know what you got. Painting, you know what you got. Photography, not yet. It's still too early, I think.
01:10:17
Speaker
storytelling, I was literally thinking about storytelling too. I was like, you know what? Storytelling is the oldest art form of all of them. Easily. Yeah. Right. Cause I mean, oral storytelling, like because that existed before it was written down and and it's been passed along and learning how to tell a good story. That's, that is literally probably the oldest art form older than paintings would be. Cause there's no external medium.
01:10:46
Speaker
And it's just, you just need you. but You just need you. and but But I would say, I was like storytelling is probably the oldest form of art that's ever existed because it predates anything recorded.
Storytelling and Historical Contexts
01:10:59
Speaker
you know right It just either has been told long enough that it still exists now or yeah from it's the first fucking kid advantage guy that was just
01:11:09
Speaker
Then it was like, yeah, that monkey, he fucking got it. yeah But you know that got lost so long the way. you know but Bob ate that mushroom. Bob died. That was that probably the first story. you know But Jim ate that mushroom and he said, ooh. Jim sausage. and We should eat that mushroom, Jim saw. Don't eat the mushroom, Bob. I remember one thing, there's another tangent in history.
01:11:37
Speaker
ah it And that like, it took a long time for people to like, start like moving the dead. So like for a long time, it would just be like, well, he died. Okay. Like I think so and then it was kind of like, that was kind of like a big step in what essentially became like civilization and like the first roots of like, where we were like on the Tigris and the Euphrates and that kind of shit was like,
01:12:09
Speaker
graveyards, that kind of thing, like how important that was and like, um, just kind of like acknowledging life and death as like a species and people and things like that. Well, we've done that for a long time. Oh, no. Yeah. Like thousands, hundreds of thousands of years probably. But like, that was like kind of like,
01:12:29
Speaker
The first step, like you're right, like a dog dies. The other dogs don't go and bury it. They fucking just eat it or whatever. They hell. oh Yeah, but they're not like bearing it. I'm like, you know, some animals do remember. Elephants. Elephants, things like that. But like, that wasn't really like a thing in humanity for a while, I guess. I don't know if that's right or not. Who fucking knows? Sounds right. I ain't got no time machine. We'll go with it. We don't know. Like that's what I say i was thinking about too. Like we don't fucking know a lot. But yeah, film, what film means to me I said it before and I'll say it again, it's an experience.
Filmmaker's Intent and Audience Experience
01:13:03
Speaker
As a filmmaker, all I wish to do is provide an experience for my audience and and have something that I enjoy because
01:13:14
Speaker
I don't want to pretend to know what audiences want because I only kind of know what I like and I want to essentially, and I feel like I can execute that the best. Like when I watch um Dickhead, you know, it reminds me of a lot of other films. Like of course a lot of people draw comparisons to Halloween, but you know, like you got summer party massacre and you got- But rightfully so, but also, I mean,
01:13:41
Speaker
We hadn't seen Slumber Party Massacre at the time. No. And to me, that's a good thing in the sense that like, we're telling stories that have resonated before. And it's because these and I was thinking about it because I was like, ticket is like, it's so weird and how personal it is of a story.
01:14:04
Speaker
Um, I mean, we don't really know someone that wrapped their head and told paper and murdered anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. good point But, you know, like the characters like, like Richard being in love with Jennifer and the Kevin character, like kind of just swooping in and being like the, well, I'm hot, so let's fuck. And like the the Jennifer character being like, you're hot, but I can just use you because you're hot. And the Kevin character thinking, well, yeah, that's great.
01:14:34
Speaker
And then being more sinister because, you know, at the end of the day, I think um you and I both recognize, and and this is something too that's interesting as we've matured, especially with the story and how we've edited the film and everything is like, like the Kevin character is just as dangerous as the Tom character. And that's kind of where. I mean, you could say that the way it ended is because of Kevin. Mm hmm.
01:15:04
Speaker
Exactly and it kind of and then of course that his father was All of that and it's like a janitor of all that and it's like generational and it's like this is the kind of shit that hit me know that gets passed along that gets passed along and this is the kind of shit that like Everyone had like people have to deal with because it's like a thing where you're taught, right? It's like You know and then and on all these things and it's like all this adds up into like well, they just have a shitty party. I You know, at the end of the day, like if we're not following Jennifer, it's like people just getting shit face at this house. And that's all there is to do is just get shit face, right? yeah And then whatever darkness ensues. And darkness always ensues because boredom, nothing else is better to do. I mean, we've seen that shit. We've seen it.
Messages in Films and Audience Interpretation
01:15:58
Speaker
And we just tried to capture it and and add ah an entertaining twist, I guess, in a sense. I don't think we're too heavy on the message. and There's a message. and It's there. If you want it to be. Which I think is nice. I think that's the most important thing, because those are the films that I appreciate the most, where you get out of it what you want.
01:16:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's not like, and I think that's where modern films really kind of suck the most is they are just, they're shoving it down your fucking throat, right? And sometimes it really works. Come and see really works. Cause come and see us like, guess what? War is bad, we're all right? like Yeah. Guess what? War sucks.
01:16:49
Speaker
And we're gonna look at all they went through for come and see though, right? Yeah. You literally can't make that today. But also it's like the most serious of topics. Oh yeah. Like.
01:17:00
Speaker
that's what ah Something that is so beautiful about that film too, um is Florian or Floria or whatever that fucking kid is. Florian. Florian, that kid in the opening, right? He's like, they're digging. The gun, the gun. Yeah, they're digging in the the dirt of corpses essentially to look for,
01:17:20
Speaker
you know, shit to play with because they ain't not got nothing better to do. And they find the gun and it's like, now I can go to war and fight. Yeah. And the mom's like, Jesus Christ, you're so fucking stupid kid. Like, yeah. And he's, you know, and then it shows and then, you know, what happens in the movie happens and it's like, fuck. So like the kid didn't even have boots. So for your films? Yeah.
01:17:48
Speaker
Do you approach every film the same way and then apply your theory on what films are to your films are in the future? Do you think you're going to do that or how is your approach going to be? I don't think so. Um, at least with how I've written, uh, films,
01:18:10
Speaker
It's, I don't think there's like a single approach. I'm not thinking about it. It's so it's like story first for me in a sense. But I gotta imagine you're thinking of how you're gonna make this as your writing. Oh, of course. And I've always, even in like when you go back and listen to the scripts that we've read on the podcast, I always try to write something we could make.
01:18:32
Speaker
Now, sometimes I go above and beyond that where it's like, you know, on a spaceship or some shit. Yeah, like this ain't ever gonna happen, but it's- But it's a fun story and like, let's have a fun setting. Because like, ah I ain't gonna do no fucking spaceship movie unless someone gives me like a lot, give me like some, unless there's millions of dollars in the budget. No, that's not true. I know you would definitely do a spaceship movie if you had a set designer, yes an art director who could make it work. Like Darkstar, right?
01:19:03
Speaker
For all its flaws, if you could have them make your set, yes you'd be like, hell yeah, we're we're making this in space. It's a beach ball alien, let's do it. Maybe not a beach ball alien, but you don't have to say like, yeah if we can accomplish the set in space,
01:19:19
Speaker
Let's do it.
Favorite Films and Storytelling Approaches
01:19:20
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I love sci-fi I would and the Probably one of my favorite movies if not, my favorite movies alien I mean, come on like and that movie is like my favorite horror film. It's probably my favorite Yeah, you know, it's definitely like maybe the Exorcist because it's just So fucking good like as a story. It's just so fucking good and like the approach to it right because it it it's very grounded and it's like yeah I mean like I mean like yes it's say in our um
01:19:51
Speaker
kauuzoo Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu. Pazuzu.
01:20:05
Speaker
but as an adult to me the scariest scenes when i watched i rewatched it um not that's on the list you cheater see the movie many times But I was watching it, it's been since I had kids, since i had probably since I had Luke, and not since Emma, that I last watched it. And the the thing that was kind of bugging me was like, dude, the fucking like medical treatments that they try to put her through, because they're trying to- They're just as barbaric. They're trying to rationalize and understand what's going on with,
01:20:37
Speaker
with the daughter. That's her name? Reagan. Reagan, yes. And they're trying to understand what's going on with Reagan. And it's like, fuck, dude. Like, I forget like how like barbaric medicine is. Especially back then, right? The practices and just like the shit that they're doing her. And it's like, Pazuzu, he didn't even have to show up, you know? Yeah. He's like, damn, motherfucker, chill out. He's like, slow down, everybody. I'm just Pazuzu. Yeah.
01:21:01
Speaker
You know, they're just like poking and prodding her and doing all this shit to this little girl trying to because, you know, she's a little different. She's doing some shit. And it's like the funny thing is like, that's interesting. I never thought about it that way. And it's like.
01:21:16
Speaker
Interesting. There's probably a movie there where it's like she was never possessed. and But just what she's put through is the horror. Because it's like it can't be spiritual or it can't be this mystical element. It's got to be grounded in. Yeah. It's all in your head. Yeah. So let's crack that open. It's schizophrenia. Let's shove a needle up your nose and stab your brain. Yeah, you got to get lobotomized here. What?
01:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, that you that's really you know, that's because I always loved that element of the film right where The priest is going around and kind of investigating this as it did because it's kind of this semi-new art Yeah to it um So, yeah, that's a really interesting element I never ought to rewatch it because I haven't seen it since I was Probably like an older teenager, you know, cuz always that film don't watch it. You're too young Don't mess with that shit And yeah, that's interesting. That's really interesting. i never because that never I mean, that always stood out to me as the most interesting aspects, like figuring it out in this discovery of what's going on. like
01:22:27
Speaker
Like obviously the possession stuff is the attention grabber, right? Like her head spinning around is like, holy fuck. yeah But for me, the most interesting aspect of the exorcist is the noir aspect of, well, you know, is she just...
01:22:44
Speaker
bipolar, you know, what's going on, just yeah all in her head. And yeah let's subject her to this because the treatments. The mom is like super secular, if I remember correctly. Ellen Burstyn's character is like, yeah, i don I'm not religious. and Yeah, the church is like the last
Horror Films: Classic versus Modern
01:22:59
Speaker
resort, right? Yeah, because nothing's fixing it. And she's just, and then she hears about, ah she, you know, goes down to church and she's like, I don't know what to do. And then Father Charis comes. And then the cool thing about the exorcist too is
01:23:15
Speaker
It's just all build up. Oh, that's the best part. It is just all so build up. and then it And especially at that time, because I mean, my parents still talk to it talk about it to this day. It pays off. I don't know if another film can ever pay off to that extreme, because we're just so...
01:23:33
Speaker
um What's that word? Desensitized? Because we've seen, I mean, Terrifier 3 exists. Yeah. You know, we're so desensitized to so much shit. Yeah, and they're just like, just on the poster, it's like someone with like a ripped up face for Terrifier 3. And it's like, this is where we're at, huh? They're gonna make it four already. Oh, yeah. I mean, Terrifier 3 probably will make more money than A lot of movies. Inside out. It's going to show inside out. No way. It's going to show inside out. No, it's not going to make more than inside out. It can't. wait Nothing beats kids movies. No. Kids movies, ah it's a kind of a cheat. You know how many times I've watched Up? A lot. Yeah. That's why I'm really caring about that. I can literally recite lines from that. I mean, I've noticed details no one else would notice. Like I was like, because they also have a
01:24:26
Speaker
a little TV series they did that's one season, because Ed Asner died, unfortunately. But in the opening credits, they show one of the houses, and I was like, that's the same house they show in the opening of Up, but then when they show it, it looks like a ghost, like a scary movie type of house. I was like, they show that same exact house, but it looks nice. And I was like, damn, dude, that's how many times I've seen this film. I recognize a fucking house.
01:24:54
Speaker
That's how I feel about ah Boo Brothers. Well, you know, when I was a kid, I mean, I can't tell you how many every time I say like, oh, yeah, I watched that movie a million times. I watched Jurassic Park a million times. I watched T2 for me. I watched T2 a
Influence of Childhood Films
01:25:10
Speaker
lot. Well, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Return of the Jedi.
01:25:14
Speaker
um last crusade Like there's some films that I just watched on repeat. i mean And then when I didn't see it the next day, like I felt an emptiness. So I was like, I got to see them again. I miss Indy. It's funny looking at me now, but dude, I remember when I was a kid, I was so obsessed with Arnold. All I wanted for my birthday was a, uh, like a curl bar.
01:25:37
Speaker
It's like a workout like Arnold. Oh, Terminator, dude. I watched that film. I watched Terminator 2. I watched Terminator. Yeah. Especially when they were making John Connor. I remember I watched T2 a lot and we went to a friend's house and their parents were like, what kind of movies do you like to watch? and I was like, I want to watch Terminator 2. That's my favorite movie. and They're like, what?
01:26:05
Speaker
Your mom lets you watch Terminator 2. We'll watch that at some point. I'm like, I watched Terminator 2, I watched Commando, Predator, Last Action Hero. like ah fuck My favorite movie is so every Arnold movie, dude. as like That's all I would watch, just fucking Arnold movies growing up. like I loved Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would watch all of them. Last Action Hero, Red Heat.
01:26:27
Speaker
um
01:26:30
Speaker
Commando, Total Recall, Running Man, like you name it. I mean fuck i remember um remember ah when I was little, little, maybe 10 or 11, maybe even younger. there was There's that weird-ass Arnold movie. It was his first film. It's called like Hercules in New York or something.
01:26:57
Speaker
I remember trying to sit through and watch it. That movie's so fucking weird. It is such a fucking weird movie. Hercules in New York or france San Francisco or Hercules somewhere. That movie's he is like sexually assaulted. Like fucking weird shit happens in that movie to Arnold. That might not be his first movie. I bet his first movie was A Long Goodbye. Actually, I don't know.
Film Recommendations and Escapism
01:27:23
Speaker
Maybe that was his first starring role was Hercules in New York. But I did watch Long Goodbye. That's a great movie. Highly recommend it. Everyone should go watch Long Goodbye. um Which is really weird if you've watched a lot of those noir movies um featuring... ah What's that guy's name?
01:27:55
Speaker
Humphrey Bogart playing, uh, Jesus. Sam again, right? Sam Spade or something like that. Is that his name? Fucking booze. Kills your brain cells. Don't drink kids. I mean, I think it's good. Sometimes you just gotta to like combat the bullshit. I think that's something, that's something to kind of think about.
01:28:28
Speaker
Sometimes you can get so lost in this perceived romanticism of life and love and whatever. Or just drown in it. You just need something to kind of like kill the brain cells and stop the thousand assortments. I'm sure I'm self-treating for something, but I don't know.
01:28:57
Speaker
You know, Hercules in New York, shitty movie, but I loved Arnold as a kid. You actually saw that? Oh yeah. I've never seen that film. It's not even his voice. It is not, it fucking sucks. he mean He's like, he's raped in that movie by a woman. It's crazy. Or sexually assaulted, maybe. I don't know if it's actually rape, but I don't think there's penetration. I don't know, whatever. Let's get on to another topic. Speaking of rape. Wait, so let me ask you this. Sure.
Scripted versus Spontaneous Filmmaking
01:29:28
Speaker
So when you are writing your films and you're deciding how they're going to be made, do you ever go into like, I'm going to make this really tight. It's going to be this kind of film. Or do you're like, I'm going to see a bird in a tree and I'm going to film that bird in a tree and it's going to be narrative. And we're going to see where it goes. Like, does that ever occur? I don't, I don't plan for that, but in my experience,
01:29:56
Speaker
I mean, I think boy do. I want shit. I love to just kind of play. Yeah. And I did. I think that was one thing that was really fun about Dickhead. What do you mean play? It's like so we had I would say we had like ideas on how a lot of scenes and shots would be set up and shot. And then we would get in the room and I would be like.
01:30:20
Speaker
I don't want to see it like this. I really want to do it like this. Like, can we try it like this? And then sometimes it would be like, yeah, we can try it. And then sometimes it'd be like, we ain't doing it. What do you mean? Sometimes we wouldn't do it like, which is time constraints, reality sets in, or just it was bad. Yeah, definitely reality sets in. And it's like, it's like, do we have a schedule? And that's where kind of things, that's where I want to be like,
01:30:49
Speaker
I get pissed off when we work with, I shouldn't name names, I guess, um where it's like, he's just like, well, we just got it, you know, set up and shoot the shot. And it's like, dude, let's just fucking feel it out. Like, let's just, one, I want to do as many takes until it's right. Two, ah if we're like, hey, we want to move the light over here and see what it looks like and make it different. Let's just do it like where we're here.
01:31:11
Speaker
and You have, one, you have, you can do that, but you also have to be real. And that's the hard part sometimes. That's the balancing act, right? That's the balancing act. Because, has and I remember- Time is money, right? And I remember, and I think this is this was probably one of my favorite shots, and I don't think we yeah we had planned it, and it was just something I was just like, let's just, we had talked about it, and we were like, let's try this. And it's that panning shot of her walking outside.
01:31:39
Speaker
Who? Marianne when she's coming down the stairs and it's like ah the camera pans as she walks outside. Oh, yeah. Yeah. you Yeah. And I remember we were kind of it wasn't supposed to be like that. And I was like, let's just try it. And that's like one of the coolest shots that we have. And it just kind of really worked out.
01:31:57
Speaker
Sometimes that happens, but also sometimes the experimentation doesn't work. I think it takes a lot of discipline to know when to do that, when not to do that. Also, I think it also takes really good planning so that you get what's intended, like for our reshoots when we didn't get all of Scene 1 and 2 as intended.
01:32:19
Speaker
because You know, if we did a second day of shooting, we would have finished early. me And then we could have done some more experimental stuff, you know, like, Hey, you know what? We did this shot earlier, especially because that day you put together a, um, which I hate you do this, but you always do it, but you put together a rough cut and you show people. Which I hate when you do that. There's one thing I learned in art as a photographer, don't ever show them until it's done.
01:32:50
Speaker
Well, I think film is so different from that because... Yeah, but you and me understand. Ain't no one else can understand. But I don't i don't know if that's necessarily true. well Well, one thing I will say this. People catch things you don't. Yes, and I'll say this. And it's so important on the day that they catch that. But also when you showed them, I'll say it felt like some of the people were deflated.
Feedback and Actor Involvement
01:33:18
Speaker
I don't care. I do. We need them to be energized, engaged, because we had to shoot still. i mean We didn't. Yes, we did. I did. I did inserts and shit. That never made it. But even then, to me, so i'm i'm a I was with the cast and crew doing those inserts. They were still there with me.
01:33:41
Speaker
Well, I think they were going out in the town, weren't they? Yeah, we all were. But we were still doing, I mean, I was supposed to do the inserts and it was just, all I'm saying is that should have just been between us. I know you wanted to show everyone, because it's like, hey, look, it's so exciting. And it is. I'm not afraid of it at all. It's not about you being afraid, it's about them keeping the momentum and the motivation.
01:34:08
Speaker
I would say if that is a concern, we're doing things very wrong and very badly. No, I don't think so. I think because ah him in my opinion, you just don't show a work in progress to the client. I think that's fear. No, no, no. I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you. No, I'm telling you. I've worked with clients and photography and I've showed them the rough photos before they're edited and everything's corrected.
01:34:38
Speaker
And every, a few times I've done it, not every time, but if certainly a few times I've done it, I can just see them become deflated from the way the images look. And then I show them the end results and it's like, oh yeah, okay, that's better. But you just see like that wind taken out of them. And so in my opinion,
01:34:59
Speaker
It's better to just show the end result to the client. And in respect to our films, we don't have an audience. So really our clients are, is everyone who's been involved up to that point. Cause we don't pay anyone. So, you know, the imagination fills in the gaps. They can read the room. I mean, look at the Audra scene, right?
01:35:23
Speaker
I watched that now and it's just like, fuck man, this is just, we did so good. Cause it's just like, ah and certainly on that day on the set, do you, I mean, you remember after we filmed it, we were just like, man, I just need a drink now. Like, what did we go through? You know, and and we felt that momentum and with scene one and two, we, everyone felt that momentum. We knew it was good. We knew we had it.
01:35:50
Speaker
I want to push back a lot here because I feel like that's like working with people that aren't professional. I don't agree. I think that's where it's different. If you're shooting a model, a model is not a professional photographer. An actress is a professional filmmaker, ah set director, set decorator, they're professionals. If you're a show someone and that deflates them, they're unprofessional.
01:36:14
Speaker
And that's stupid. You don't want to work with unprofessional people. In the sense that, like, if you show an actress, like, and I know some people, they have a lot of issues with this, like um Jeff Bridges, he has to see his playback. The Coen brothers did not show, would not let him watch the playback on Big Lebowski. Big issue for him. and And he was like, you know, I have to see it to know what to correct. And they wouldn't let him watch it.
01:36:41
Speaker
and he had a huge issue with it. And you might say, oh, they're the best one, the best movies ever made, who knows? so But to me, it's like, if you're afraid to show them what they did as, because this is just as much their art as yours, um then they did something bad. And, or we did something wrong. um Yeah, it's not color graded, but it,
01:37:07
Speaker
That's not, and you know. But see, I'm saying it's not an issue. The sound ain't right. It's not an issue of wrong, it's just an issue of understanding. but then And I'll say this, look at our real world situation. We weren't working with professionals. We are.
01:37:22
Speaker
Really? Yes, great. Our audio person was professional? No, no, no, no. Our set design was professional. The cameraman was professional. The directors were professional. I hope so. We tried. We weren't professional. We're trying. We're not pros. We don't get paid for this shit. But we're trying. Exactly. We're trying. We're attempting to be. And that's what we can't be afraid of. We can't be afraid to be professional.
01:37:44
Speaker
Look, I'm just, this is my advice. Because you are, I think you're hanging on no from the photography. this This is my advice to people out there. Show the finished work. Don't show the work in progress to the client. would be They're not clients.
01:38:02
Speaker
to the people who participated in it. But you could get back into the photography. They're not clients. They are the artists. But you know what I'm saying. I don't. Well, as I disagree with you greatly. You don't have to know what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is do not show the rough to them if you can avoid it. Because they are just... Especially where we're coming from at our level.
01:38:28
Speaker
show them the end result because also a lot of that might not make sense until you see it as a cohesive whole. And that's the issue. We're the directors. We know what the cohesive whole is or hopefully we have a good understanding of what that is. But a lot of people will not because they're not the directors. Like I know for a fact we use some of the takes that the actors didn't like.
01:38:58
Speaker
But then once we put the edit together, it was like, actually, no, that take was better. But what I would say is I would want them to see it so they could possibly either correct it or have a comment if they want to see it. But I think we also, as the directors, we need to know what that is. And I think we do, because when we saw one and two, we knew what it was.
01:39:29
Speaker
And I think we've shown that in the picture lock, right? Because of with how tight it is and how well it's working. Like, yeah, we understand. In fact, we probably didn't understand as well as we actually accomplished. like No, we didn't. like I think we actually.
01:39:45
Speaker
ah surpassed our expectations, if I may say so. Absolutely. I think, I mean, I don't want to necessarily say there was a degree of luck. It it was- I'm sure there is, like- Oh, there's always a degree of luck. There's always a degree of chance, but it's also just us essentially to go back to sculpting, like you brought up a little bit, it was just sculpting it down to the thing. Yeah. For me, I want, to I want,
01:40:14
Speaker
Maybe after the day, like the thing was is like, I want them to have input. Cause if they're watching it and they're like, I can do that better. But no one gave you
Flexibility and Collaboration in Filmmaking
01:40:23
Speaker
input. Yeah, because maybe they were all, and this is another thing too that I've noticed is a lot of people get way too excited for stuff and they have no idea what's good or bad. Do you think possibly people are too timid?
01:40:40
Speaker
to express themselves? Oh, absolutely. But I also don't think there's a one thing fits all here. It's also a huge amount of it is the level of trust you have with your crew and the people.
01:40:55
Speaker
Um, cause you know, there are like, this actually gets brought up a lot with, um, actors that demand to be in the editing room. I think suddenly Sidney Lumet spoke of this quite often in his book. And he's like, I never let actors into the editing room. Except when he was forced to with, um, 12 Angry Men, cause Humphrey Bogart was not Humphrey Bogart. Wasn't he a producer? No. Um,
01:41:21
Speaker
for care of who it was. Well, one of the actors. It wasn't Humphrey Bogart. One of the actors was a producer, right? Yes. It wasn't Humphrey Bogart. He's not in that movie. Oh, I'm sorry. Jane Fonda. Peter Fonda. Peter Fonda. Yeah. I was like, Humphrey Bogart. I get them confused. Peter Fonda. He was a producer. Yes. And he had to be in there, which Sidney Lumet hated. Yes. Well, I think, well, Sidney Lumet even talks about it where he's like, it's a very intimate setting between the editor and the director.
01:41:50
Speaker
and no one else should be there um for editing. He felt, because even the cinematographer, he didn't want at times, right? Doesn't he mention that? Like he was like, I know- He doesn't let anyone in. Yeah. Yeah. But he's forced to, right? In that setting. Sometimes there are forced to, and like sometimes act, like I know ah Freakin talks about this, because Al Pacino has to be in the editing room. Really? He doesn't let them pick certain takes, things like that. Really? Yeah.
01:42:17
Speaker
Damn. And so, and I was thinking about that because ah to me, it's like, all it's so like one, never have a rule, never have a rule that ah you don't, other than like safety first, never have, never have like concrete rules because you never know when things will change. That's like the first thing I would say to anybody.
01:42:38
Speaker
Like with Grace, I will, i like, cause you were like, don't show Grace. And I was like, well, one, I wouldn't care because I would want her opinion because I know she's a filmmaker. She directs and she writes and she edits and she colors films all the time. Like that's what she does to make money. um So I want people that I try, like one one thing we were sending out, like the rough cut, I wanted to send it out to people that would understand. Yeah. Cause half the time when I would say, Hey, watch this, they'd be like, Oh, well there's a green rectangle. And I'm like, we fucking know.
01:43:08
Speaker
Guess what? News flash, we fucking know. yeah Does the story work? Did you understand the characters? like That's why I appreciated Andre's notes. Even though I wish they were a little more detailed when he says, like oh, I don't understand character motivations, which character? Yeah. Jennifer's motivations.
01:43:27
Speaker
Richard's motivations, like i like there are like nine characters in our movie. I need to know because guess what? We can't address it unless there's specific details. But that's besides the point. My point whole point is the reason why I don't mind showing like even just like framing and on and all this stuff is, I need their input. If they're saying, hey, if you give me this angle, I'll give you this, I need to know that because that might be better than what we're planning. Has that ever played out? It did with Audra because I remember when we were working with Audra, she kept saying, ah she said because I remember she wasn't saying a line, right?
01:44:05
Speaker
And she said, well, I don't understand why you aren't hearing the line correctly. And I remember we talked, we wouldn't, just and hers just me and her, we went and talked and I said, you are kind of like, I was like, imagine you're in love.
01:44:21
Speaker
with this guy and you're doing all this stuff to kind of impress toasty, Gianluca. And she's like, okay, I can kind of do that. And I said, the whole thing was like, you're kind of like, kind of like playing up like this, like when people, when they're like making fun of you, like you don't watch movies, like all this stuff. I was like, it's because you're kind of, cause being like, everyone in this room is like a movie nerd and you're not, but you're trying to fit in.
01:44:45
Speaker
I'll play that through. and you know This is what you told her. Yes. I'll never forget this because she was the only actress that kind of asked about this. And I was like, fuck, why don't well they all ask like this? Like, why don't they all like try to figure out what the characters are doing or why they're saying what they're saying? Like most of the time, that was the different, the weird thing with Marianne was she was so prepared. She didn't really ask a lot of questions. It was just like, she was just showed up ready. Do you do you think with Marianne that there was perhaps an over preparedness where it was
01:45:24
Speaker
like this is how it has to be as I prepared for, and this is what I set my mind to? No, um because, man, I don't think this is a problem because there I think that there probably could be an example where over preparedness is an issue if they over prepare incorrectly.
01:45:45
Speaker
um With Mary Ann, she, took it and she at least was mostly consistent with who she made Jennifer. And while it didn't necessarily align with how we kind of have thought Jennifer was, how we she made she made the character her own yeah and she played that through. And that is, you can't really ask for more.
01:46:11
Speaker
other than like, yeah, we wanted her to be a little more this and that. And we tried to, we have takes where we tried to get that out of her, but those takes are never really that good because I don't know if she just couldn't deliver it. She wasn't ready for it. She didn't prepare for it. And it was like, the thing, and I want to just it reiterate this, you have to understand each person and how you work with them. Marianne does not work well on the fly.
01:46:38
Speaker
We couldn't just throw stuff at her. It never worked. Almost never. We couldn't just say, hey, try this. It just, those takes fucking sucked. Every time she came in with what she had prepared, it worked great. She got it done. like we She was a one or two taker, right? We always look at her. The first or second take was always great. And then after we get to the third or fourth, where we're like, you know, like, can you try like this, be a little more fun, be a little more light, do this or that, you know, like, um,
01:47:08
Speaker
Don't play it so serious. Like you have some fun with it. It would just be bad. Those takes suck. And Chris is the opposite. So you can't prepare the same way with Chris as you do with Jennifer or with Marianne. Chris was like, I don't know how prepared he was, but by take seven or by take eight, Fucker was nailing every line. He didn't move too much, but Marianne's exhausted because she just did the take like 12 times. Cause she did, if we did her tight and now it's drawn take eight for Chris. So she's done the lines 12 times. She's not really feeling it. Chris isn't maybe vibing with her as much, but he's getting into it.
01:47:44
Speaker
And it's like, okay, so now we have to do things do a little bit differently. Like maybe we shouldn't have had her read the lines every time. So we should have had a stand in then. Something like that for Chris. And then like that was something you have to understand but with Grace. Grace is like, we will let Grace play. We tell her what we want. She plays. She does her thing. you know frame it he's very Freeman was like that the the best of both worlds. He became prepared, but he would play.
01:48:10
Speaker
and he would experiment and he would try things. When we were like, hey, ah you know, why don't we try this thing where if you're a little crazy or you're doing things a little different, and then we get that, well, I'm gonna start with you down here, and I wanna work my way up with you, you know? yeah And it's like, where the fuck did that come from? That wasn't, I don't even think that's even in the script, even if it is in the script, i' that delivery is so fucking weird. And like the way he does it, and it's like a guy that's completely lost his mind.
01:48:37
Speaker
He's completely different from, I know this is spoilers for the film, but if you watch, if that line does not sound like it's coming out of the guy that's like, well, I just want to go to the party and hang out, but it's like,
Character Evolution and Actor Contributions
01:48:49
Speaker
but no one invites me. And it's like, ah this dude just gutted a girl and he's like fucking psycho now. Like he is, he could transformed. He transformed. And he transformed in a way that we didn't necessarily anticipate because I know when we had talked about it and we had written it,
01:49:07
Speaker
Richard's supposed to be like a goddamn Terminator at this point. Yeah. Like he's essentially like, I'm just going to torture the shit out of you. Like he was just supposed to torture and just like be completely cold and like dead eyed. And he was the only, like he was just like, you made that you you made me this? This is what you made? I'll show you what you really wanted. And he he made it different. He made it American Psycho.
01:49:37
Speaker
Do you think it's an energy level that maybe the it's just energy kind of just, it's just people runs out like you know like ah like a horse, right? There's an early start starter horse who starts off early and they finish first because they had such a strong start. And then there's a late horse that you know takes a little bit and then they kind of get that energy and then they can finish.
01:50:01
Speaker
do Do you think it might be something like that, like an energy aspect, or do you think- It is. Well, like I said, it's understanding. It's understanding. what But where do you think that comes from, I guess? like Because, for instance, let's say Marianne's best takes are the first one and two takes. And then let's say we're like, well, we're not quite feeling it, let's do a few more.
01:50:28
Speaker
would then the best correct course to be, well, we're not quite feeling it, so let's take a couple more, but let's take a break so she has time to rest. Yes. And then start anew. Yes. And then explore it that way, and then that would be the best approach to kind of get those more in hindringen style um ad lib take In hindsight, that's what we should have done. And then it's under and on the fly, we have to be like, okay, she needs that break. So now let's bring in Chris to do his, bring her in, have him stand in, stand in, do his lines. So he's still kind of building up and then get him at the end, tail end, maybe take her out by then and then have him finish his lines. Like that would have been a better
01:51:12
Speaker
That's the role of the organization. I think that's one of the roles of the director is to understand how to work your actors. And some, like, compare the two horses. Sorry. I mean, that's just... Well, it's better than... What is that analogy? It's better than Hitchcock, which compared them to Cows. ah He said actors are like cows. They sat around and they chew all day. And then sometimes they did they they say something brilliant. And that's what he said about actors. They're cows, right? He just said they just stand there and they chew all day.
01:51:42
Speaker
um And it's like, right, you just have to understand. and like And that comes back to the whole professional thing. Professional actors, shouldnt they should see, because like traditionally, you would bring everyone to see the dailies. like That's how it would work. Everyone would come and watch the dailies, and then they could they would be like, hey,
01:52:04
Speaker
Oh, you know, the director didn't see that the boom's in the corner. Let's reshoot. The director didn't see this. The producer didn't see this. The actor would see the daily and say, I can do that line better now that I've seen it. But not every actor would say that.
01:52:18
Speaker
Right? So it was like a thing. But then does that make them unprofessional? For instance, you said Jeff Bridges needed to see his takes. Like, does that make him unprofessional? No, but what I think the difference is, is like, what you were saying is your fear is they get deflated and they lose their spirit on the project. No, it's not my fear. I've seen it. Well, that's a fear. Your fear is that they get deflated. That your concern is they get deflated and they lose their passion for the project because they see what the work is. That's not professional.
01:52:48
Speaker
But if Jeff Bridges is professional, then how can you say that's not professional? My thing is like, if, okay, here's the example with Jeff Bridges. So he has to see his takes because he wants to see what he's doing to make it better or worse. Coen brothers say, no, fuck off. He quits the movie. There's no big Lebowski. Unprofessional garbage. What he does is,
01:53:13
Speaker
He says, hey, can I just see a couple of takes? And they go, e sure. So they showed him a couple of takes? We don't do this. Here you go. He went back and he watched some of the playback. OK, now he goes back and he does a couple more takes. He's happy. Everyone works. That's a compromise. Filmmaking. Is that what happened? Yes, that's all right. Now.
01:53:37
Speaker
The thing is, is there's a lot of egos in the room. And that's where a concern could be, because they are like, oh, you know, that light doesn't look good on me. Like I had brought up earlier, like, why are you shooting me from the back? You know, like Grace would say, like, I don't want you to be shot up my nose, whatever. and But I'm like, this is the angle.
01:53:55
Speaker
Did she? I don't think she ever said that, did she? She did. In hindsight, you're right. We should have done that straight down. We didn't, we were, and that was like, we're like- Well, we couldn't. We couldn't, right? yeah I don't think we, yeah, we didn't have like a ladder or something. We tried to, but we couldn't, that was the best we got. Yeah, we couldn't get higher. Yeah. um Yeah, we did try, we couldn't get higher. Yeah, we didnt just didn't have any of that.
01:54:17
Speaker
for that shot. Yeah, if maybe if we ah we didn't have like maybe a proper C-stand or something to mount it to. so For whatever reason, we could not essentially elevate the camera directly above her. We did it as best as we could. Right, which was still a little bit of the nose. Because I think at one point I stood on, someone stood on the bed. Alex was doing the camera at that point, I believe. I think someone stood on the bed and it was just too shaky. Like there's just, yeah I'm on the bed, I can't balance.
01:54:42
Speaker
And also that shot's fairly wide and you could, you would be able to see it. Yeah. um So it just didn't work. But, you know, like the thing is, it's like, one, understand where you're, where you're working with. Don't have a concrete rule. Everyone is different. That's the ah scariest thing, I think, because then you have, you pair your, we paired our Chris's and our Marianne's, which is rough and without the understanding. Well, then, so then how do you balance that? Like,
01:55:12
Speaker
It's just like experience, I think. So then you have to acknowledge your inexperience and then just what, just go with it and hope for the best. Yeah. Essentially the only solution. That's life.
01:55:26
Speaker
I don't, I mean, or you just become a tyrannical Kubrick that just says that we're doing it 80 times because I want to do it till it's right and it's not right and I won't know what's right until I see it's right. So then what about rehearsals? Do you think that could be solved in rehearsals if someone takes the time to do that? I definitely think, well, I think rehearsals are important, not necessarily because the actors learn the material, but you learn how to work with those actors. So just seeing how they're working and then just seeing what you could push, like, yes, let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. And then seeing where they're fatiguing. And it's like, oh, and that's where we could have learned how to do that better.
Director and Actor Dynamics
01:56:02
Speaker
And it's also like, these are things we didn't do rehearsals. But not only that, we weren't really even thinking about that kind of shit. Yeah, we didn't know that existed. I don't know if we didn't know that existed, but it was just like, it was just like, well, not in the mind, but also like,
01:56:17
Speaker
We had a lot of different, like like I said, Marianne was like, I'm doing rehearsals, I'm ready to go. And she would come prepared. She became prepared, ready to go. And she knew what scenes we were shooting that day. She knew everything. She knew all those pages of dialogue. And if we threw anything at her,
01:56:33
Speaker
It was bad. Like not necessarily like she would deliver it bad, but she had to learn it. She would have to take a break and she would go and read the script. And because we would add pages sometimes and be like, hey, we're doing this. And she's like, I wasn't ready. So we would, you know, during lunch, she would just sit there and read and read and read and read. And it's like, shit. Like, but that wasn't something we were really thinking about. We were thinking about, well, who's going to fucking do the lights? Like, where's fucking Louise? Like, oh, put the camera over there. Like we have a four hour set up just to get this one shot and blah, blah, blah. So then that's the lack of experience and then also the lack of manpower. A lack of experience, lack of manpower. And it's just like, now that we know these things, it's like the hardest part, ah the hardest job of a director is knowing how to work with the crew and the actors. Once you do that, things kind of fall into place. So then let me ask you, so to say you're doing your next short, whatever it is, who gives a shit? How?
01:57:29
Speaker
How do you plan to remedy that? Have you thought about that at all? I have. I know I have it. I know I have. And it's, well one, it's easy if you are working with people you've worked with before. So get familiar. Get familiar. Familiar with people. And that's one of the best things that you can do. And I think that's why a lot of people had like, a lot of directors have their actors.
01:57:53
Speaker
And crew, right? Yeah, true yeah because yet you develop shorthand, you know how they work, and it just makes life easier. We could shoot with grace a lot faster than we can shoot with another actress. Like you and me, I'll be like, and it'll be like, okay, Steven, I get it. Oh, okay, I don't know if I made, if I said any language there, but ah Tom knows what I mean.
01:58:15
Speaker
Or if it's like, hey, can we just try doing a pan, a whip pan or something instead? And you're just like, yeah, but we got to move the light. Can we do that first? I'm like, of course, please, let's make it right. um But like when we were going with Grace, right, it's like, hey, we we need you to get like sink in the bathtub and then pop up.
01:58:37
Speaker
And then she would do it and you're like, you're breathing weird. Don't do it like that. And then she would try it differently. And then, you know, like, and then it's like, Oh wait, you can't breathe under water. Yeah. And then it's like, kind of like you develop like a comfort level with it. Right. Like, and it's all, cause the thing too is like, especially I feel like at, when we're at our level and our, like, maybe it's like an experience, maybe it's, well, definitely an experience. I mean, we've only, uh, that too, but it's also just like,
01:59:05
Speaker
We tread so carefully. Do you think we're too delicate? To our detriment. Do you think we're too delicate? Yes. Yes. But we're delicate for the reason that- We're delicate for the right reasons. we're Yeah, we're delicate because we don't want to lose them. But it's too- So then is that too delicate? Yes. At that point? you know We're treating fine China when it's like, this is what made it China. it's I always think about when you first start working with computers. Uh-huh.
01:59:33
Speaker
And you're so careful when you put that that CPU and you're like, oh, I don't want to buy. Yeah, I always panic. I don't want to bend the computer. I don't want to bend the pins. I don't want to do that. And now I'm just like, I just slap that shit in there and I slap it in. It's like, yeah, whatever happens happens. I've done it a million times. And I always think about that. And I'll never forget this. I watched one of the I watched Freeman's documentary interview.
01:59:55
Speaker
Oh, for a dickhead. Yeah. You actually watched the whole, his whole- I did. It was a long, it was a long time ago, but I'll never forget it. One of the things he said was Tom and Steven were so nice that I felt that they were too afraid to push me to be the best actor I could be.
02:00:14
Speaker
And I just remember thinking, no, we didn't want you to quit. yeah and this kind of thing At the same time, I thought, he's not wrong, and not even a little bit. these things And I just remember thinking, yep, we didn't we didn't push him at all. We were so afraid to push too hard that they would just walk away. And we kind of left that as a blanket sentiment for everyone, huh? Instead of understanding our actors that we could push it couldn't,
02:00:43
Speaker
Yep. and But that's an experience. That's what it was. An experience and and also the the thing too was just like, And I know it's shady to say like money would keep them here in a sense, but it does. Of course. You give me money, man, I'll get naked for you right now. Right? Like if it's like, well, if I'm paying you to be here, there's a level of, and this is also where professionalism comes in. Not just money, but also contractually, right? Yeah. Which equates to money.
02:01:16
Speaker
Yes. And it's like, like if Freeman was like, you know what, fuck you guys. I don't want to do another weekend of this shit. And he just left. What are we going to do? Sue him? yeah Yeah, right. Like, no, of course not. Are you fucking serious? No. is There's no money involved. It was just like he essentially he's a volunteer.
02:01:39
Speaker
Volunteers can stop whenever the fuck they want. yeah And we were we were very cognizant of that. So we wanted to make sure that we were being very careful about that. And in the sense where it's like, you know, you're working with Jack Nicholson in The Shining and Kubrick says, yeah, I don't give a shit if you're worried about the distortion on your face.
Artistic Risks and Expectations
02:01:58
Speaker
I'm shooting you with this lens because it looks better. He's just going to do it.
02:02:02
Speaker
He doesn't care. He doesn't care if Jack Nicholson has an ego trip. And he's the most biggest actor in the world. Kubrick don't give a fuck. But also at that time, Kubrick's one of the biggest directors in the world. Exactly. But at the same time, right? Like, I'm not saying we need to be Kubrick. I'm just saying... Well, but what I'm saying too is that... There's levels. Yes, exactly. There's levels. And we ain't level 10, bro. No, we're level zero. We're level one. You know what I'm saying? We ain't level one. Level one is like Lucky McKee. You know, like...
02:02:33
Speaker
Simon like Barrett like it's so different For us right it's just so different for us because Even if we're paying someone and they walk away, what are we to do? We get well, there's the only thing is like we could threaten legal action. at least Yeah, but we can't do that That's not a reality. It's like I can't afford a lawyer. Yeah so then there's literally nothing we can do so like at our level it's just so
02:03:01
Speaker
It's so much more volatile. you know It's just so much more volatile. Even to even now, it's so volatile. I mean, like getting back to kind of everything we're doing, the sound team, you know I asked, well, what if we don't like it?
02:03:20
Speaker
You know, what can we do then? You know, like if you're giving us a score that we don't like, ah how do we you want to approach it? Cause I don't want to have to pussy foot around shit, you know, if it's not working for me, I want to be able to say it, but also I don't want to hurt someone. And then they walk away and it's like, well, shit, man, I'm not going to get someone as good as you at the rate I'm offering. You know, that's a real thing. And that's.
02:03:49
Speaker
And just an inherent risk, I think, of making art. That's just a risk you have to take. And that's why... So then are you going to err, going forward now with post on this, are you going to err on the side of caution or on the side of risk?
02:04:06
Speaker
I want to say, at least where I'm at, I just want to do like whatever we can to get it done. Because I feel like I'm kind of even past getting the best movie because that could take another decade if we're being honest. No, we're being honest. It could, it could. I don't think it would take that long. Very easily it could. I think it could take a couple of years. And I don't want to do that. I guess I'm there where I'm like, I don't want to do that because I'm like, so do you want to just be done with it? I do in a sense where I'm, I think,
02:04:42
Speaker
It's like a stagnation in our progression as artists and filmmakers. Like, Dickhead's at where it's at. We didn't make ah Citizen Kane. Yeah, as we always say. yeah yeah And that's what we always bring it back to. Like, we didn't make Citizen Kane, nor were we trying to, but we didn't. Yeah. We made something interesting and special, and we've seen that in the edit. Well, we feel that. And we feel that, but like,
02:05:12
Speaker
there's gotta to be a point where we're just like, okay, we finish it so that we can move on to the next thing that hopefully will be better.
Balancing Perfection and Pragmatism
02:05:20
Speaker
A sense of pragmatism has to yes insert itself with us. Yes, because it's like, well, we could be where we could make this movie for the rest of our lives if we wanted to, and it could be 10% better than it is now. And then at the end of the day,
02:05:35
Speaker
The movie you're making for the rest of your life is called Dickhead. That's the movie you're making for the rest of your life. Right. And I think about that sometimes too. And I'm just like, yeah, we were just trying to make a fun movie. Like we need to treat it in a sense where it's like we don't need to. With the edit, I feel like it was fair to exhaust every single avenue and every single like take just for our own personal benefit of understanding editing filmmaking and all that.
02:06:06
Speaker
But now I'm at a point where I'm just like, I don't think the movie gets too much better with stuff. um But my argument to that would be that because we took our time, we now have the film we have. And I feel that we still need to take that time. Now, with that said, the time it takes is exponentially faster.
02:06:35
Speaker
Yes. you know like Yes, the edit took years. It needed to take years. And the sound needs to take the same amount of time, but in relation, in the sense that it needs to take the time necessary, but that time isn't as long as what the edit required. You know what I'm saying? Yes. We're really we're we're ready going at a very fast speed And we can figure out the edit and give it its due amount of attention and we can wrap it up so quick now because everything's already set in motion. And so, like, cause one of my worries is is, you know, like with VFX and you're like, oh, I just want that rectangle. I was like, well, yeah, I know you want the rectangle, but you know, we still need to put in the time and get a lot of shit right.
02:07:31
Speaker
But like the ship, right, we need like, it's only gonna take a day at worst. Like for instance, key framing the sky to make it look day for night. Okay, that's extra work. Let's put in that extra work because that extra work to key frame that sky for that like half a second. Well, it's probably longer than that. Let's say two seconds. That's only 48 frames that we have to key frame.
02:07:59
Speaker
That's not an entire movie we're editing. so like yes we still need it I feel like we still need to put in that same amount of effort, but we also have to understand that putting in that amount of effort isn't going to take the same amount of time to produce the results we need. Yes.
02:08:18
Speaker
And I agree completely. I think where I'm at is like, if they have, if like Adam delivers a score that isn't as powerful as Rosemary's baby, I'm not going- We can't place that expectation. I ain't gonna lose sleep. We can't place that expectation. If it's something I like, I'm happy. I'll be happy. Okay, but what's the difference between you liking the score versus you loving the score? How how much does that matter?
02:08:43
Speaker
It matters, but I also don't. That thing is is like when ah like we were talking about the color grade. I just don't know. I don't know what I can't know. But so I'm. But you know when you love something and when you don't. Yes.
02:08:55
Speaker
And I don't want to say I don't love the score. and if i'm That's just an example. I'm not really talking about reality. I don't know. I'm talking about reality. So like it like if Adam delivers something, like they've already delivered a couple of samples, there were stuff I liked and there were stuff I didn't like. And I gave them notes and I said, this stuff I don't like. I don't like it at all.
02:09:13
Speaker
You said that? Yes. Good for you. I said, you know, I call it the spidery strings. Oh, yeah. I said, I fucking hate this. Take this shit out. I said it professional, more professionally, but I said, I don't like it. Take it out. Give me something better. Give me something impactful, sharp and hard. Better is a bad way to frame it. But I didn't say better. I said I want something more intense, impactful and hard.
02:09:35
Speaker
Give me that. And he said, okay, I understand what you're saying. Let me come back and get to you. You said that intensive path on heart. Jesus Christ. If you said that to me, I'd be like, what the fuck is this? Intensive path on heart. ah What the fuck does that mean? Well, I gave you the notes. oh But I mean, those are the notes I sent to them. I don't know. But I've just seen like, how does that translate? I don't like that thing is like, it's all.
02:09:56
Speaker
but It's all ethereal. Yeah, everything is ethereal. Like that's why I'm saying it's like that's why I'm kind of like I want to be done with it in a sense because it's like So like the edit was so hard just to get to a point where we felt right I don't it was and I was like I don't want to do another eight years of this on VFX and but and I know it won't I know it won't but I'm saying it I that I just I can't I I'm saying is it won't. I know. but because to I'm telling you, I can't do another eight years on dickhead. I can't do another eight. I can't even do another six months on dickhead. But what I'm saying to you is it won't, but we still need to have that same veracity. Yes.
02:10:39
Speaker
Yes, you're right. But I'm ah I'm also just like, do you not? And it's just until it's done, it will be my fear until it's done because of how long it took. There's nothing that we could say or do that will change that until it's done, because it that it's been that fear has been leaning over me for a decade.
Challenges and Confidence in Film Completion
02:10:56
Speaker
And it's been every single day since we wrapped that the the film will never get done. It's going to get done, dude. And I'm just like, and I've told you that since day one, I guess I guess my fear in working together, you're right. Cause this is our thing. Like you were talking about like Steven, as long as you're good with the color, I'm happy.
02:11:14
Speaker
And it's like, no, dude, like I get it. I don't want you to to compromise in that respect. We need to be on this together. yes Especially in post. Like, I mean, there's some elements where like, sure, you get what you want. I get what I want. I probably mostly get what I want just with the nature of things and how compromising and and and how how generous you are.
02:11:39
Speaker
you know I know there's some things that you were like, fuck you, dude, but I know, and I'm sorry. where ah But I guess one of my fears is that I don't wanna settle on good enough. I wanna settle on it being right. Yes. And I think that attitude has led us to the edit we have.
02:12:04
Speaker
Cause I'm very happy with the edit. I mean, I, I was going through the audio and I was just catching things cause I'm literally working in, uh, a timescale that's less than 24 frames per second with the audio, you know, it's working within 60 instead of 24. So I'm really noticing details. And I, you know, I found a couple issues, well, like 10, um, but that's it. But like.
02:12:34
Speaker
You know, we, I don't know, we, we got it with the edit, man. Like I truly feel that's as good as it's going to get. And any better, it's just going to be, like you said, just diminishing results. Like we're getting 0.1% better and I'm fine with not getting 0.1% better. That's where I'm thinking. Cause no one's going to see it, but I am worried about with like the score, the VFX and the coloring where it's like,
02:13:01
Speaker
There's areas to explore and avenues to go down and discover what's going to work. And I feel like there is that sweet spot that we can hit. And we can't settle on good enough. We have to settle on what's right for the film. And it's hard to know because like with music, I don't fucking know music, man. like
02:13:31
Speaker
Like you, you're saying intense, harder, and whatever. I mean, yeah, I would give the same kind of as like, I don't know. You know, like with cinematography, I'd be like, yeah, let's switch to this lens and let's switch this f-stop and let's bring down the lighting here and we're going to do this. Like I i know that and I can.
02:13:51
Speaker
really give um detailed feedback. But with this shit, it's like, oh, fucking no. But I i i do know when I'm not there, I would guess I would say.
Striving for Success in the Film Industry
02:14:05
Speaker
And I don't want us to settle on good enough because we haven't yet and we've gotten far. And I feel like if we keep on,
02:14:18
Speaker
then yeah, because I guess the way I see it is like, I don't want to, like you said, I don't want to be working on Dickhead for eight years, but I also see it for myself. This is it. If Deckhead fails, I don't know if I'm ever going to do another film after this. I'd like to, sure.
02:14:37
Speaker
But I'm still paying off debt from Dickhead when we shot principal almost a decade ago. yeah And I can't afford to be doing that you know for another 10 years of my life with where in general. you know I just can't, I can't. I'm tired of eating top ramen, you know what I'm saying? So I guess I just feel it like this is it for me, give it all we got. And if it fails, then fail.
02:15:09
Speaker
yeah Sure, I'll do movies, sure, I'll help out. I'll enjoy it, but I guess I just see it as like, this is it. Like, this is the one shot. Either it's gonna, we're Luke, you know, attacking the Death Star, man, and either of those torpedo missiles are gonna hit the exhaust port or it's not, and it's over, you know? And I feel like we've had such positive results thus far.
02:15:39
Speaker
Like looking back at it, like the editing was that wall we hit, you know, that instrumentable wall. But I mean, now being over that wall, I'm so proud, man. I am so proud of this film. like i We gloat so much about it. It's kind of obnoxious listening on the podcast when I edit. It's like, God, here we go again. This film's great. We have to. but but But it's also true. Well, I mean, that's how we feel. But what I'm saying is like,
02:16:10
Speaker
you know, compared to what it was and what it could have been, right? Oh, yeah. You know, like we, we did a lot. We did a lot and we did a lot we should be proud of. And I just have so much faith in this film still that I don't want to settle on good enough. And that's kind of my worry is that it's just good enough. When I know, I mean, obviously it's not going to be Citizen Kane, but You know, maybe it could be like, I don't know. ah ah Maybe that's, that's too arrogant to say, but certainly a hope would be like the evil dead. The first one, yeah you know, it has a lot of issues. It's a fucking rough ass movie, you know, it's,
02:17:05
Speaker
There's a lot of people who would see it and not like it. well But you know like that's that's a movie to be fucking proud of. And that's a movie that launched Sam Raimi and all of his crew. And here's how I think about it. Hopefully I could change your perspective a little bit on that. I've always thought of it as Dickhead as the door opener. Exactly.
02:17:27
Speaker
like I don't necessarily think it it's gonna go super far. I don't think it's gonna be like, it's not an Evil Dead, it's not some legacy ah thing. if it if If that happens, it's because of the way audiences connect with it and it would be something I didn't really foresee. I don't know how people foresee that. I don't think when they were making Evil Dead, that's what they were thinking. They weren't thinking, oh, we're gonna make a movie that literally like changes how people think about indie filmmaking. and you know, the fucking Coen brothers help with that movie shit like that. Like, yeah you know, like they saw it and they loved it. And it's like, maybe someone sees the dickhead and they see the potential in us. And it's all I want. All I want is it to be, it's like a calling card. It's essentially the most expensive calling card we've ever, we could ever put together.
02:18:17
Speaker
I see it
Standing Out in a Saturated Industry
02:18:18
Speaker
the exact same way, yeah but that's what I'm saying is it's that door opener that needs to open the door. yeah I mean, how well was the Evil Dead received? Probably not that well if I had to imagine because they made the Evil Dead 2, which is just a reboot of the Evil Dead. Yeah, i essentially like, here's money to do it better. Yeah. so So that's what I mean in saying the evil dead. like I don't expect Dickhead to be clerks, per se. I don't. No, me either. ah Certainly Citizen Kane at eight. But I do expect it to be that calling card. And that's why I feel like we gotta get it as good as possible because
02:19:01
Speaker
I think it's harder nowadays. It is. Like, I think it was probably harder to make them. It was harder to make a movie without a fat without a doubt um back in the day, right? Cause you had to pay for film. You kind of had to knew what know what you're doing. But I think it's harder now in the fact that there's just so much abundance. There's so much saturation. And so we're kind of, I think held at a higher standard. yeah know You have something special there.
02:19:31
Speaker
or else you're just not gonna get noticed. Literally making a film in my opinion nowadays from the limited knowledge I have is not good enough. no It's gotta be something that has an extra spark. And this is why we always talk about um like all of our quote unquote contemporaries in a sense where I'm thinking where it's like, that movie didn't go anywhere.
02:19:58
Speaker
That movie didn't make those guys any money back. yeah Like maybe they broke even through some kind of like streaming deal with Tubi or whatever. Like maybe they got their money back. And it's like, if that's where the ultimate resting place for Dickhead is, is where we at least get our money back. It's like, okay,
Future Projects and Filmmaking Passion
02:20:17
Speaker
like we can then say we have the experience and the knowledge if somehow we could get the money or raise the funds to do it again.
02:20:27
Speaker
but I would never put in the same kind of, if Dickhead doesn't essentially open those doors like we're saying, I'm not gonna go into huge debt. I'm not gonna expect you to go into huge debt for the next thing. We're just gonna make small short films and try to make an anthology that opens another door. And that is, in my opinion, the next course of action for us. Yeah.
02:20:48
Speaker
where we make monies without, it's like not going into debt, just calling in favors and being like, look, we did this. The next thing will be better. If we can get a little bit of money, good. But even better, even better. But you know, the dream is it opens doors so that we become film. Oh, yes. This will lead this lead into the next project that can do a little better and to the next project that a gradual Yes. Momentum. Let me ask you if you're, have the same sentiment as me here. I don't care if Dickhead makes money. I don't care. I'd love for it too. So we could pay off the debt or recoup the cost of our debt and then pay our, our people. i would That's my dream. That's a dream. But I don't care. Same.
02:21:45
Speaker
What I care about is that Dickhead is a good movie for what it is and it leads to the next step.
02:21:57
Speaker
Yes. And then maybe we'll be like, hey, we actually got money for this second film. Here's some cash, everybody. Like, I know we didn't pay you for that, but, you know, we got some extra cash for this. We got some scratch, actually. Yeah. Here's some money. But yeah, I mean, I don't care if Dickhead makes money. I just want it to be something we can be proud of. And and i and that's always been how I feel about it.
02:22:22
Speaker
Like I don't care about making the money for it. Me neither. and Because it's to me, i especially with how long everything how long it's been and ah how long ah all that stuff has taken,
02:22:42
Speaker
I've always just thought of it as this was the most jumping in the deep end
02:22:51
Speaker
film education that you could ask for. At yeah no matter what happens with the film, we know how fucking hard it is to make a movie. We know how hard it is to make a good movie. So
Filmmaking Joy versus Day Job Dissatisfaction
02:23:05
Speaker
it and if ah all that at the end of the day is Dickhead lives on Tubi and we just live with the knowledge that Every time you see a movie that's good, you know that those people are fucking, you know, that a miracle happened. Yeah. Right. And that is because the thing is, is like, ah I like if someone was like, hey, we'll just pay you to review movies all day. I would fucking do that in a heartbeat. Are you fucking kidding? What the fuck is it? If people want to go to our Patreon. Right. Like I.
02:23:38
Speaker
My thing is just like, we've done the god the goddamn grindstone. We've done the nine to five for, and I was like, and I just remember, I don't know, I was at the conference in Canada.
02:23:51
Speaker
The guy was like, you know, people are retiring. I need to pee actually. But people are like, people are retiring 10 years later. So everyone in this room, you guys will probably all want to retire until you're 70 years old. They told you that? Yeah. They're like, just look around. None of you are going to retire until you're in your 70s. And I just remember thinking, I'm going to fucking kill myself. Jokes on you. yeah i just And I was like, I was dead serious. I just thought, I i won't make it.
02:24:22
Speaker
I was like, I don't know if I can do five more years of this. like I wanna see the kids grow up, but I can't do this. And I was dead fucking serious. I was like, oh i was like there's no way. there I'm getting your gun.
02:24:34
Speaker
I'm killing myself. Well, I mean, Katie already put the lock on it. I don't know the combination anymore because I told her about this. And I was like, I'm dead serious. I will do this for another five years. I will fucking die kill myself before I do this for another five years. I told her that. so not Either you get a job and we figure it out and we have something where I get a job where I'm working part time or closer to home or we can pay for the kids, but I ain't doing this.
02:24:58
Speaker
You got five years, I told her. I'll fucking, I'll do it. like I said, I'll drive off a fucking cliff. I don't give a shit. It's 14 hour days or just not sustainable. Not for another five years. I said, I'll give you five years. Kids will be in school. If we haven't figured it out, I'm just gone. I'm gonna kill myself. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be alive doing this longer. I'm like, I don't even know if I'll give you five years. Like that shit might change to fucking two weeks. There's a fucking leap here, man. but i just i was like i'm like I'm dead fucking serious. I just, I can't do it.
02:25:27
Speaker
can't do it anymore. Like, and then because and then it's like almost like a tease every time we work on the movie and it's like, God, dude, you just like, it's like, oh, I forgot what it's I feel like. It's like this is what it's like to feel alive and like, actually feel like you're accomplishing something not that you're just fucking putting your head to the grindstone that's just grinding your fucking soul away. Because it's like every time we make a little every I remember every time we were doing the edit and we'd make a little breakthrough. It's just like,
02:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um my Oh, that's so cool. Oh, that's so cool. When we cut from Tom ah to Richard, and it's like, that's so fucking cool. like We saw that. That's cool. I don't feel like that in day-to-day.
02:26:13
Speaker
yeah I don't have that experience. um I'll see a movie where I see something like that and that's cool that you get ah that little rush when you watch fucking, ah you know, Blade Runner and you're thinking about replicants and the nature of humanity and like, oh, that's so cool. And then you're like, you know, Harrison Ford's like, you know, zoom in 3% on the top right corner. take Oh, shit, like, there's a snake on that bitch, you know? And it's like, and that leads to something you're like, oh, man, they thought of that. Someone thought of that and they put in a movie and they edited together. And there was like, someone made those graphics and you look at how they did the the the CGI, the CGI and ah Escape to New York. It's actually not CGI, it's just green lines and a miniature. yeah And then they filmed it and they photographed it and it's like, it's not a computer. It's a fucking model, a real life model. It's not a computer at all. And you're like, that's so fucking cool. Why don't we do stuff like that anymore? There's like an authentic feel to that. And it's just like, that movie is so cool. Escape from New York. You know, John Carpenter, like he did a lot of these cool things with graphics.
02:27:12
Speaker
And like, just, you know, in 2001, like, none of those fucking computer screens are computer screens. That shit didn't exist. It's some dude that drew a fucking picture. You know, it's like a fucking picture, or it's like a projection or some weird shit. And it's like, that's so cool. Like, I want to be doing shit like that. You know what I don't want to do? Change passwords all day. Get a list of people. All these passwords are compromised. Contact these users and have them change their passwords.
02:27:39
Speaker
All right, I guess I'm doing that all day. Hey, you gotta change your password. Why? Some guy told me he needed to. You know, I just have no, like, some guy was like, ah you know, why wasn't this fixed? I was like, I don't know, I just work here. You don't just work here. And I said, yes, I just work here. I don't give a fuck if this company fails. I don't give a shit anymore. Like, it's done. I'm dead. I'm dead inside. I don't fucking care. Like, you guys pay, you guys make sure my kids aren't homeless. That's it.
02:28:09
Speaker
That's it. You know what I'm proud of? That shot from Tom to Richard. I'm proud of that. We found that. You know what I'm proud of? Those shit, like finding that stuff. When I hear the the ducking or whatever, the low sound taken out for the party, I'm proud that we have that. I'm like, that's fucking cool. That's cool. I don't give a shit about whatever the fuck's happening at work. Maybe I used to care at first, but it's like, dude, the shit all got dragged in the mud. I don't fucking give a shit.
02:28:39
Speaker
you know and It's a deal when we were going to start putting in the festivals. and I'm like dude and i'm kind of glad that we didn't even submit the Sundance because I was just thinking. like you know I don't even think like Sundance proper is even the right festival. It's like maybe Sundance Midnight is for us. Well, yeah, that's what we're looking for. But I'm
Pride in Film Despite Limited Resources
02:29:02
Speaker
just like, dude, like we made a, it's like we made like that, we made like, and you know, I'm sorry I'm shitting on that Kill Her movie, but we made that book better. That's it, we made that book better. And I know it's like, that's arrogant, you say it's arrogant and cocky when you listen back on the podcast, but like, that is what I, how I feel. Yeah.
02:29:23
Speaker
You know, like, especially with how long we took trying to figure everything out, what should we have? We've paid that due. And it's like, you know, I'm sure they probably made that movie in less than a year. And that movie probably had somewhat budget. I mean, Brandon got paid to be on that set. There are gaffers on that set. What the fuck's a gaffer? We don't know. No whole idea. All right, that's going to be good. All right. Take