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TSP Ep 123: A Conversation About our Feature Dickhead
29 Plays6 months ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve have a conversation about there film Dickhead, discussing the entire film, the fears of being done with editing, and the hopes of what it will be. Also, these assholes gloat through the entire episode!
So come along with us and be a fellow asshole because that's a part of what it takes!
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Transcript
Mexican Love for Dragon Ball Z
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, Mexicans love Dragon Ball Z. Oh, so buddy, we're podcasting. Uh oh. And we're all recording. So thank God for editing the show. I'll say let me stand up or sit up.
Introduction to Twin Shadows Podcast
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome, everyone. Twin Shadows podcast podcast about film filmmaking and filmmakers.
00:00:24
Speaker
Hosted as always by the two coolest cats, whoever lived in a dumpster, Tom and Steve. What's up, buddy? I heard a cat that sounded like it was dying. It freaked me out. It sounded like a child screaming for help. Yeah, dude, cats are mysterious creatures like that. It kind of freaked me out. And then, you know, Karen didn't wake up at all. And I was just there listening to the pleas of a
00:00:54
Speaker
a cat in heat probably. Oh yeah. Don't they sound crazy when they get in heat, you know, and then you hear them like.
00:01:03
Speaker
I don't know if they're fighting or doing it, but there's a lot of... Evolution. Evolution is a crazy thing, man. It's a bit scary. It's pretty crazy. Evolution. That evolution.
Evolution of Podcasting Tools
00:01:16
Speaker
So, speaking of evolution, we kind of have evolved from our rocks and sticks and we're doing this remotely.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was more like an impromptu, as Stephen Wood put it, kind of episode. Yeah. Just kind of like, hey, let's jump on and get something recorded. We're a little too lazy and tired to...
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, let's not say lazy. Let's be negative. We're too tired to actually meet in person because like my studios and tatters, is that a word? My studio is so messy. I can't even move around in here. The house is messy. I'm exhausted. I don't even think I did anything today. Everyone's been sick. Oh yeah. And dying. Oh.
00:02:09
Speaker
That's way worse than it is over here. So yeah, dude. Look at this guy with his cell phone right now. Sorry, I'm trying to turn off the notifications. Oh, you won't hear him. Well, buddy. Yeah. Well, other than that, we are remote and we are doing this impromptu show. Yes, sir. And, uh, you got, damn, dude, you look pretty good on the camera there, buddy. Yeah. I look like, uh, it's the widescreen, so I'm just in the corner.
00:02:37
Speaker
Hard to see me. I'm sipping on this Traveler's Whiskey, blend number 40. All right. I got the last of the Crown Royal from last time with Coke. Oh, Crown Royal and Coke. Yeah. Yeah. And then we'll see where the night takes me. What dream comes next?
00:02:56
Speaker
Hey, as long as there's a drink to come next, you know, you're going, okay. Speaking of okay, buddy, how you been, man? You've been, you just said like, you know, life's in tatters or your house is in tatters and you know, and everything going all right. Oh yeah, everything's great. Just tired. Just real tired. Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, that's all. But been working a little bit.
Editing Challenges and Reflections
00:03:24
Speaker
been trying to get myself on a schedule, on a routine. So dickhead, you know, that's been a little hard to get on because of the podcast. The last one we did with Kat, I did a lot to clean up her audio. So that took a lot longer than I wanted. Yeah. Did she have any notes or anything she wanted removed? Yeah, there were a couple of things she wanted removed. So I did. And then,
00:03:52
Speaker
I messaged her and I didn't hear a response back from her, so I don't know. But the second part of that went up.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed the episode. You know, one of the best things about having a guest on and then having to be the one to edit it is I get to listen back again to what they said. Because, you know, when you're in the moment, it doesn't necessarily stick because you're also trying to keep a conversation flowing and interesting as best you can. So, you know, it's kind of hard to really just let
00:04:32
Speaker
the advice sink in so it was nice to just listen back and hear what she had to say and that was a lot of fun makes me wanna get more guests on you know as difficult as it is.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I have definitely enjoyed the last couple interviews. It's a, it's always a fun experience to just kind of sit down and just chat about things and especially when people start getting excited about it, it gets me excited. Like I know that's one reason why I always love having like Jared and Clark on or something. It's like,
00:05:06
Speaker
When they're on, it's just like, man, you know, I should be, we should be making stuff all the time, like nonstop, you know, like having Josh on. It's like, why aren't we making something right now? Like, what the fuck is wrong with us? Finish the kit, put it out so we can make other shit. And that's a good motivator and it's a good inspiration. So I enjoy having that kind of guest. But, you know, every now and then you do, you don't have a guest that, I don't know buddy, I don't know, you know, like,
00:05:35
Speaker
The opposite of inspirational in the sense where it's just like, damn, you really put me out, man. Yeah, but I haven't really had any guests like that. The only one. I was going to say, I think that's been few and far in between. Maybe only one. And even then, I mean, it's not like the guest was anything bad or anything like that. It's just.
00:06:00
Speaker
felt icky. Yeah. You know, it just definitely just felt like, ah, it feels like there's some sort of side angle going on here. But, um, side angle on our podcast. Hey, yeah, it's like, damn, man. Joke's on you, man. But, but yeah, dude, that's cool. Well, you did bring up something interesting. So let me ask you, uh, dickhead, you know, you said, let's finish it. Let's get it done. Yeah. Well, we were on a pretty good.
00:06:30
Speaker
We had a pretty good momentum. We were on a good roll there. Really working. And we got through a lot of very difficult scenes. Really punched them up, I think. I think we still got to finish the garage scene, right? The second half? Because we kind of just... No, we're done. We are? We got it. Yeah, we finished it. Oh, I thought it still needed some brushing up. But we said, but we quit after we finished the first half. No, we finished.
00:06:56
Speaker
We were starting to work on other stuff. Oh, okay. Cool. So then it's only scene five, which is, has now become the hardest scene so far. No, no, not really. It was always scene six, but no. Yeah. Scene six. Well, the hard part. So scene six, they're hard for the opposite reason.
00:07:18
Speaker
Scene six is difficult because you have a million choices to make. And you're trying to fit in all of these misshapen puzzle pieces. Where like scene five is you have five pieces, make a picture.
00:07:36
Speaker
and they're all completely different images. None of them are long enough. Scene 6 is like, okay, this is what you get when you shoot without a
Creative Solutions in Scene Editing
00:07:51
Speaker
script supervisor.
00:07:52
Speaker
That's scene six. It's like you don't have a script supervisor following continuity, following dialogue, following the people's motions in between takes. And that makes cutting between those takes very difficult.
00:08:09
Speaker
And then scene five, there's no coverage. And most takes don't even actually go all the way to the end of the scene. And then our two shot, our master doesn't even run the whole scene. So we literally have to...
00:08:34
Speaker
chopped, I mean, we like chopped like into everything that we have. And now it's just like, I think getting timing down on delivery and response, and maybe even adding in just more like looking at someone while they someone's talking over. Yeah, right. So like, Jennifer is talking to Richard. And like,
00:08:57
Speaker
It's on Richard or like by getting that reaction. Yeah. To maybe see about finding the best take. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we got to do some black magic with it, but yeah, when I was laying out the tracks so that I could start working on them and going through them. Cause I mean, from what we have so far, it feels like that's pretty much it. I'm just kind of searching for a little nugget that'll help tie it all together.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yep. Are a few nuggets. Um, but I'll see like one take that's several minutes long. And then the second take will be like 30 seconds. And I'm just like, Oh, fuck, I don't know what happened. And then there's even some takes where I don't know if they're actual takes or not, but it looks like people are acting, but there's no dialogue or there's no audio track for it.
00:09:51
Speaker
So I'm wondering like, okay, am I gonna have to maybe use some of the audio from the other takes to try to ADR it, so to say. But we've gotten to scene five and then we've kind of just hit this wall on things. We haven't gotten together to work on it. And for good reason, we've had a lot going on. But also, when we were working on the other scenes, we were pretty exhausted, but we still powered through it.
00:10:21
Speaker
So what do you think has gotten in the way? Do you think it's just life being too much right now and the legitimate excuse? Or do you think it's also some self-sabotaging going on? Well, I never like to put the blame on just one thing because I think that's a little too simplistic.
00:10:44
Speaker
It's definitely an amalgamation of things. And I think one of the main things is you said it. Scene 5 is probably, in a way, one of the hardest things that we've had to do to make work because of its importance to the film.
00:11:02
Speaker
Which it and it got elevated to a new importance, right? Right. If if we had kept our originally had kept scene three and so the interesting thing is that we did this completely on accident, but like scene three and C5 were kind of like the same thing.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, just more of just like a continuation of the scene, really. Right. So like scene three is supposed to be the more, oh, this is, uh, you believe they can be friends. And then scene five is like, what's wrong with Richard? Yeah.
00:11:40
Speaker
And then that leads into further of the film and, you know, what Dickhead's all about. Yeah. But scene three, just unfortunately, scene three is everything is wrong with that scene. It's ugly. The coverage is God awful. The angle, we only have one angle on Richard and it's really weird. Yeah, it's a it's a unique angle for him, for sure.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. And it doesn't match really with Jennifer's angle at all, which it was also the first scene that we shot with actors, which was probably a terrible idea because it's like nine pages of dialogue and brutal. Yeah. Yeah. But I think honestly, the main issue is
00:12:33
Speaker
Well, Juan, once we actually can schedule time and get together, we make progress, but we're starting also to get to a point where the progress feels less big because we're nearly there.
00:12:51
Speaker
I'm sorry to get to points where I'm looking at scenes and I'm like, oh, this is other than if you're going to like shorten or try to find our length in a clip. I don't really know what else to do with it. Like scene five, like other than like retiming the dialogue, I have no idea what else we can do with that. I've watched all those clips.
00:13:10
Speaker
thousand times. I've tried to make that jump scare work five different ways and it's somehow gets worse every time. It's like, well, we just kind of have to live with it. Originally, we had a good approach to it where Richard makes that funny face. I mean, that felt sloppy, but so far that was the best, I think. But it just, the thing is that
00:13:34
Speaker
it feels so sloppy in comparison to the rest of the film. And it's kind of hard to like separate that. Even in comparison to the end of the scene, remember how we ended it because we added temp music and we added Twin Peaks theme song? Yep. And I mean, that's a beautiful song.
00:13:54
Speaker
It evokes emotions in us because we know Twin Peaks so well, so it feels perfect for it. Yeah, it does. And it ends on such a high note with that song, but the start of the scene and most of the scene doesn't measure up to that end, so the balance is off, you know? Mm-hmm.
00:14:20
Speaker
Like, and there are, there's definitely standouts. Their first little talk when he puts up his fist and he goes, huh, you know, like, yeah, like they have some good playful interactions. And then there is a chemistry there between the two actors too.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But then you get to the second scene. And that's where reality sets in because that day, no, like everyone was fucking pissed off. Like, yeah, it was just a bad like that was you said it's like I think it was either it's either the worst or the second worst day of filming that we did. I think it was the worst because several actors didn't show for that day.
00:15:02
Speaker
We were behind schedule miserably. The wind was terrible. The street was way more noisy than we realized. And mostly it was the wind that was bad. And then I keep thinking of that advice Kasusha gave us when she was talking about, I would never let audio hold a cut.
00:15:29
Speaker
I would just have audio noted to the script supervisor that there's an audio issue there. And you see it, we have an audio person, we have Kylie call hold and you can just see the anger set into the actors and the emotional place they're at just completely drop.
00:15:49
Speaker
And you know, I'm watching these scenes, not hearing the audio because I was syncing it, but just seeing it. You can just visually see that frustration and it's like, fuck man, we just should have kept rolling with it and then just done another take if we were that upset about the sound.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah, and also, or even ADR'd it, right? It was just such a poor choice of location. I mean, it kind of makes sense that we wanted it to be outside of Kevin's house to kind of like keep relation as weird as our geometry is in this film where like our geography is where like, no one really knows or understands where anything actually is. It's like,
00:16:34
Speaker
It's a kind of magical land. Nothing really makes sense, geographically speaking. It is a bit surreal in that respect. Who knows where she lives? Does she live five minutes from her school? Is it 10 miles? What the fuck?
00:16:52
Speaker
she walks but then it's like Richard has a car but he's he I always thought in my head and I guess it never really made it into the movie so will never really matter but I always thought my head is that he drives to school and then he like walks to meet her on her way like a weirdo I could definitely see that or we could give Richard the benefit of the doubt and he was just borrowing his dad's car
00:17:16
Speaker
Oh, for the party? Yeah, they're a poor family. They only got one car. So he got permission to borrow it. Yeah, that's going to beat him because he doesn't fill it with gas. So interesting thing I just realized, at the party when Richard and Heather, or Richard and Kalista are going to leave, is their car trapped, locked in the
Overcoming Audio Challenges
00:17:39
Speaker
driveway? Yeah, it is. Yep. There's someone behind them. Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
which was, uh, Kylie and I, right? It's just a, I don't, I don't know whose car it is, but yeah, someone's car is there. Okay. Okay. Cause it's like, wait, why didn't they just drive to, to Jennifer instead of running towards her? They're trapped. That's why. Yeah. We wrote it in. Don't worry. Okay. Okay. Did it make it in the movie? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, you can see that there because he's he starts the car or he tries to he gets in and he's like, I can't get out shit, you know, like he says in the angle. No, he doesn't. But you you can see it. OK, it's there. And then when they run out. Uh huh. When they run over to the car, you can see that his car is blocked in. We'll have to VFX a a fake car behind him, huh? There is a car.
00:18:35
Speaker
Trust me, there's a car behind him. I've never been more sure of anything in my life. We've hit this wall with Scene 5. But honestly, once we get that down, I think we can render something out of time code. Let me do notes because you know this a lot better than I do all the shots. I just know what I would like more to happen.
00:19:04
Speaker
I would like to do those notes and then it's just a matter of adding in the temp audio, which could change things a little bit, I imagine. The sound might speed things up or allow us to elongate things. I think that's what we're going to run into is where the sound allows us to stretch a little more. There's definitely some scenes where I've been thinking,
00:19:34
Speaker
Once we actually add kind of some room noise, this might feel really fast. Yes. Well, yeah, that's positive. And there's also some just audio missing, right? Like, uh,
00:19:49
Speaker
Callista screams when she's being murdered. Which we have recorded, right? I think so. I think it's in there. If not, we can also just grab screams, right? Like that's a nice thing. I'm pretty sure we have a recording of her. We made a recording of her. I just don't know if it ever got transferred and all that.
00:20:09
Speaker
I'm pretty sure we also have we also have a bunch of her screams from like the audition and everything like that. So we could maybe pull from there because she did some good screams for us in her audition. Yeah, she had a really cool thing is it and the thing is it's all off screen. So it doesn't even have to be her, right? We could literally use anyone scream. Well, we could also probably just get her back to scream. Don't you think? I have no idea.
00:20:34
Speaker
I haven't talked to her in 10 years. She'll be like, you guys are still working on this. I thought you scrapped it. Oh, Dickhead 2026. I'll tell you 2026. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years. You know, a boyhood, but we're going to be ready for that sequel. I'll tell you. But yeah, I mean, right. Like.
00:21:00
Speaker
It's more like once we're satisfied with Scene 5, once we've just learned to accept what it is or is what it is, it's pretty much just final adjustments. Yeah, definitely.
00:21:19
Speaker
That picture lock, I don't really know what else to say. I mean, we're almost there. Well, our plan is to make sure we're on the same page. We get Scene 5 done. We render it out. We let me do some notes. We see if there's anything to be done with that. Probably take a couple weeks, because I can play with it on my own too. And then we do the temp audio version.
00:21:49
Speaker
And then we ask some friends to watch it for us, right? And give us their opinions. Yeah. And see if, cause yeah, definitely. And then we get all of that, see what they have to say, see how they feel, see if we can address those issues and then picture lock. Yeah. Damn. Shit, man.
00:22:16
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. It's like... And then we got to look for people to do the post from there. Yeah, because it's like, you need to find a colorist, a composer, and a sound mixer.
Post-Production Team Assembly
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, and probably a dialogue editor, I think we might have to, specifically. I'm just hoping that the sound mixer will do both. Yeah, if they can do that, that's great. But I mean, we need someone to work some black magic on that audio there.
00:22:47
Speaker
Yeah, I have a feeling we're going to have to eat a lot of gum paste or whatever the hell the phrase is. We have to eat a lot of shit on some of that audio. Well, let me just say it as diplomatically as possible. Hopefully, technology can save us.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too is like at least like I think a lot of our issue is high nose a noise floor Yeah, which luckily I think Like stuff like clarity and things like that tuned correctly should be able to eliminate most of that noise floor
00:23:27
Speaker
And I think there's other plugins that are even better than that as far as cleaning things up or if not cleaning it up, at least bringing the audio more to the front. I think there's stuff like that. Cuz Sean was telling me he knew one of the editors are the editor for one of the Transformer movies. And that guy was saying the audio on Transformers was pretty much all unusable.
00:23:53
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard this before a few times, not just about Transformers, but that the majority of audio is unusable. And that's why I like most films are 80 yard and you just have no idea. Like that's just part of it. They're that good at it, I guess. Oh, really? Yeah. I read something like 80% of dialogue is 80 yard. No shit. Hollywood pictures. Really?
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah. Wow, that's like, those actors are insanely good. Well, I know like famously there's that Logan scene with Hugh Jackman where it's the end and he's fighting in the forest and all of that's like 80 yard. But wow, that's hard to believe honestly.
00:24:36
Speaker
That's pretty hard to believe. But I, Sean, the editor guy, Sean told me that he ran the audio through this plug-in and it just, like there was tons of street noise and just, you know, just off-screen distracting sound.
00:24:55
Speaker
And that plugin was able to clean it all up and make it sound insanely good. But you know, it's probably like a $1,000, $2,000 app or plugin. Yeah, but I mean, that would be worth it. I mean, the thing too is like, if you find someone that has it,
00:25:14
Speaker
No, we got to find someone who has it and knows how to use it, you know? Right. It's like, OK, you paid two thousand for this. I'm going to give you five hundred to run it through our our movie. That's pretty fair, right? Like you do that a couple of times and you got profit going. I don't know. I guess I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, the hope is that we get our asses saved by technology to clean up the sound because.
00:25:41
Speaker
I mean, there's just no bringing people back to do lines. It's just, I mean, even if we did, it's like, it's been too long. It's been too long. And you know, I think the only person I would feel comfortable bringing back would be Grace. Yeah. And that's the only person. And that's because it's only been two years with her. It's only been two years with her. But Grace is also just, I mean, she's always, she's always cool.
00:26:10
Speaker
You know? And she's very understanding. So I do feel comfortable with asking her, but anyone else, I don't know, it's kind of like hide and shame until we have something to show them and then hide and shame from there when they see what we have to show them. That's kind of how I feel too. I'm just like, oh man.
00:26:33
Speaker
Hopefully we get some good Foley. Yeah. We might need to get Foley, yeah. Or maybe we can try to do Foley. I mean, I think that's essentially what we're going to try to do with the temp audio. I mean, the cool thing about the temp audio is I think we've been adding a lot of it as we've been going. Yeah, but we've been getting pre-recorded sound. When I say Foley, I mean, like, we're recording sound. No, no, yeah, but what I mean is like,
00:27:03
Speaker
I can feel the difference. There's, you know, when we actually like, I don't know if you've seen it recently, but the scene where Tom is dragging Jennifer by the hair in her house.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah, he throws her down on the ground and he drags her by hair and she's kicking yeah, I added like some like a like the like Yeah, you added like the shoe Like a sound where it's like scuffling against like oh you added that in tile Yeah, I added that in. Oh shit. I thought that was actually recorded
00:27:44
Speaker
No. Yeah, you did really good. But then you also added like boxes falling and Street Fighter sounds. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, I don't know about those. Well, that's it's a representation, right? Of course, of course. This is the sound of a struggle. And it's also an inside joke for us, right? Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, it's not actually real, right? It's funny. Like hope, like the whole idea is like,
00:28:10
Speaker
We had, we were like, we're just going to hide everything and sell it with sound that we can do later. That was the intention behind a lot of scenes. Yeah. Uh, because it was just like, well, we don't have the budget or the expertise to really execute this. Um, so we're just gonna just hide it as much as possible, which sound will let you hide a lot. It'll let you hide a lot.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, right. You're going to look at this, this empty hallway for probably a little too long. We made it last probably, but when the sound is in there, you're getting told the story and just staring at the, that flashlight. Yeah. On the ground. Once we have like good audio in there.
00:28:58
Speaker
It's going to it sells the story, right? And this is the suspense is building because you're like, is she like, of course, she's going to run out, right? And then it it builds a little bit more. She doesn't run out. And then we're going we could have like, oh, oh, oh, you know, like that fight, the struggle. How does it sound? Oh, yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
I mean, that'd be fucking rad, right? No, that scene will be very good. Because it solely relies on audio.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, and it was like, we'll do this later. I feel like there was a lot of scenes like that, like the end with Tom getting like, with the police. We still haven't recorded that. That's one thing we have to do before picture lock. We have to record that audio, that dialogue. Well, do you really want it to be us?
00:29:56
Speaker
I thought so, yeah. Well, let me talk to my cousin because he's an actual cop. So let me get like, what would you say here in real life? Because I think that'd be fun. But we just got to say dickhead. You fucking dickhead. Shoot that dickhead. Lexi was my daughter.
00:30:22
Speaker
Throw a good name. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, that's it, right? And then it's like, OK, that's it. Hire people. I mean, there's a composer I really want to get on the show. Yeah. His name is Andrew something.
00:30:41
Speaker
Let me see if I can look it up. Andrew Scott Bell. I mean, I'm going to try to get him on the show. He did the score for the Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey movies. Oh, OK. Was that the guy you showed me? And he had like an exorcist themed soundtrack? No, I was the different guy. Oh, OK, OK. That guy was pretty good.
00:31:10
Speaker
I feel like that's in line with your vision. That'll be fun, though, finding the composer. That's probably something we should do first. Something we should do first, yeah.
00:31:24
Speaker
Well, you know, you can't really you're not going to mix until you have your score because that has to get mixed. Yeah. Right. Well, I can still do a lot of like the dialogue. Yeah. And the yeah. And if they're going to do fully because I think the least a couple of people that I've reached out to about sound mixing.
00:31:41
Speaker
uh fully as part of their package it's like a complete like they do the full uh escape of audio did you listen to the dialogue they did well dude i don't even know man what i don't know what to hear like well did it sound good to you it just sounds like audio enough okay all right we'll definitely have to talk about that one
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah. The audio, the mixing is that's, I don't even know. Like that's where I'm like, man, we can do Cargill around or something, you know, all the Kasusha did give me a, um, recommendation for somebody to do the audio mixing. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Financial Challenges and Investments
00:32:25
Speaker
And she said they would be around 5,000. That's, that's a good deal. It just hurts.
00:32:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, back into debt. Time to get a loan. Time to get a second job. God damn it. If only this podcast made money. By the way, everybody, we do have a Patreon. What is our Patreon? Patreon.com slash Twin Shadows Productions.
00:33:01
Speaker
And if you want to support the movie, we promise it will be made someday. I had a cool idea. I was thinking what if there was like, you know, there's like GoFundMe and there's.
00:33:16
Speaker
like Indiegogo, those those things. Yeah. But what if there was one that was more investment centered, where it's like you give me $50 and I'm going to give you $50 plus 2% interest if the money ever makes a profit or if the movie ever makes a profit? Yeah, I don't want to get into that, man. That just sounds expensive.
00:33:40
Speaker
I'm just saying, it would give us money to get stuff done, and then if the movie ever does make money, which it will never make money, we're safe. But I think that would be a good way to get people to invest. Well, I will say, I did speak to a composer, I think he was on Facebook at the start, and he suggested that he might know some people who would invest into the film.
00:34:10
Speaker
You know, actually finding real investors could be a thing. You know, if you want to go down that route, it's just scary, right? Yeah, it is scary, but and also, um, I feel like it takes it a little bit out of our hands.
00:34:26
Speaker
That's why I'm saying it's scary. Yeah, in the sense too, where it's like, oh, we have like, right now, like if Dickhead just fails, it's like, okay, we're just saying, you know, in debt and sad and lonely and depressed, like always, like no big deal. But like if we, if someone gives us like $10,000 to finish the movie, I feel like it's like, oh. And by 10,000, he made 100,000, just so. Yeah, 100,000, 200,000.
00:34:52
Speaker
500,000. I think I need to quit my job now so I can just focus solely on going through every inch of this with a fine-tooth comb and making sure that it's okay. Honestly, if we have an investor, I don't think I'll feel that way. I'm all. I don't be like, hey, you got suckered. You invested in a film called Dickhead, man. Come on.
00:35:20
Speaker
I mean, I think it's a great title. I was thinking about it. And how perfect of a title it is, because I was thinking about that movie, Final Girls. It's about it's like, it's like a. It's called Final Girl. I know there's a movie called Final Girl. Maybe it's called Final Girls, but whatever the movie is, the setup is, it's like
00:35:46
Speaker
It's like alcohol anonymous. It's like a support group for final girls. Oh, okay. That's cool. Yeah. And I was like, you know, that's like a big thing is like the final girl, right? Like horror movies have the final girl. Well, our movie is about the horror movie dickhead, right? Like we have the date rapist and the incestual killer brother and the psycho best friend.
00:36:10
Speaker
And the conniving girlfriend that's a girl, she's kind of plotting behind her. Lexi's kind of plotting behind Jennifer's back a little bit. Well, literally everyone's a dickhead except for one person. Yeah. Right. Callista. Callista's the only one who's not a dickhead.
00:36:29
Speaker
and she gets violently murdered. That's another cool off-screen one where I feel like we have an entire playground that we can use because we don't need Heather to do anything, right? We can do whatever we want with how we want that kill scene to go. Oh, well, I must admit, the way I imagine it,
00:36:54
Speaker
And not to say we have to do it, but the theme or the heart of it or concept, I'm a little tired, so it's hard for me to think of words right now, but what would be the audio you hear when, I don't remember her name, but an alien, you know how it's the last two survivors? And the second to last girl, our woman is,
00:37:24
Speaker
just hear her dying over the intercoms, you know, and you just hear this like intense sound. I mean, it is horrific, right? The way she dies and it's like, oh my god, you just like heart-pounding. So, I kind of imagine something like that just, you know, she's being brutalized in the garage. It's not just a scream, it's like,
00:37:47
Speaker
Tom's fucking going to town on Calista. And then it's kind of represented, too, when we see her, she's just this giant bloody mess. Yeah. I know it's like spoilers for the movie because people have never seen it still, you know, but I mean, a lot of people don't put it that way. Yeah. But what I was thinking about, because I feel like that's a big aspect that's missing is without
00:38:13
Speaker
that the death throws or the death screams or whatever, you're kind of like when you watch that section of when Tom and or when Richard and Jennifer in that room together, it's kind of like, oh, you're chipping it out on us. Like, why isn't Tom busting down this door? Yeah. And it's like, he's taking care of Calista downstairs. He's taking care of business. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
Like, that's what he's been doing while they're having their moment. It's like he's like carving up this poor girl. Yeah. That Richard literally just left to die. I don't know how that's a spoiler. Oh, yeah. Damn it. Yeah, no. OK.
00:39:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I think all the spoilers are fine. I mean, if anyone's listening to this from the start, our entire podcast series and catching all our spoilers along the way. Thank you.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Thank you for listening. That's why I'm always saying it's like I don't really care too much about continuity mistakes because that means you watched it. That's true, yeah. And we've already won if you've watched it that far, right? Like if a human being that is not you or I sits down and watches dickhead from beginning to end, we've won.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's what we're out to do is make a movie that someone will watch. We'll watch. Yeah. Spend their time, but not just we'll watch because that's people we're going to be asking to help us, but to watch it and enjoy it. Yeah. If we can walk away with that, then.
00:40:04
Speaker
Yes, thank you, we made it. Not for someone to watch it and be like, hey, yeah, good job guys. Pat on the back like, wow, sure, good job. But if they actually see it and enjoy it, like legitimately, I mean, yes, we did it, we did it. We accomplished the goal, the huge goal, which is to make a movie that's enjoyable and that's not easy to do.
00:40:31
Speaker
Yeah. I can pat ourselves on the back for this, and maybe this is just more like a cathartic release. But every time I watch it, I just think, damn, we put so much intention behind everything.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, and it really can tell because I mean like the thing that I think would bother me is if people watch it and they just and that it gets completely missed because I know that's what I want to that's what I want to see because I think a lot of it will be missed.
00:41:07
Speaker
because it's yeah because when I'm like we have things that are like everything becomes like a mirrored reflection of itself in a degree and we play a lot with reflections in the in the filming and
00:41:25
Speaker
if you like pay attention, right? Like Jennifer chases Tom around the house. Tom gets chased around the house in a very similar manner, you know? And then it's like, you know, Tom's like constantly looking in the mirror. We have a big scene of Jennifer's reflection in the mirror in Kevin's bedroom. Like people kind of reveal themselves as a reflection in our film. And it's like, you might not catch that on the first watch.
00:41:54
Speaker
Or, but I mean, it's in there. And, you know, every time and like, well, I think there's a lot of little things in there. You know, there's a lot of little tidbits here and there that link back around. And then there's a lot of little things that allude to other things are foreshadow things or, you know, where we bring things kind of back full circle or
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's where we set things up. We check off his gun a lot. But it's a lot of small little details. Surprisingly, surprisingly, it's a lot of small little details that did translate. And of course, some of them were happy accidents, you know, that we just kind of discovered along the way of the editing. But definitely,
00:42:44
Speaker
like, I don't know, maybe 80% was intentional. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Layered Narrative and Audience Perception
00:42:50
Speaker
It's not more. And that's why I think the first edits were so crude is because
00:43:02
Speaker
There was a, I mean, God, it sounds so pretentious to say this. I'm sorry to our audience. Here we go. But strap in kids. Strap in. What I would say is that there's a sophistication to a lot
00:43:28
Speaker
that was overlooked, that can be easily overlooked. Did you just say we're sophisticated?
00:43:34
Speaker
I mean, the thing is, it's like... Us? Look at us, buddy. You got the camera. You can see me, man. I can see you, buddy. I'm sophisticated. I tell you, dude, like, just watch it and think about it. Like, the thing is, like, we have an explanation for everything in the movie for the most part. Well, the perfect example is what you were talking about earlier. The title, Dickhead.
00:44:01
Speaker
As simple as it is, as gratuitous as it is initially, right? I mean, there's a lot of people who are going to be turned off by a title like Dickhead, but it's for a reason. It's not just there. It's like, like we came to the title early on right away in the writing stages and we knew that that was going to be the perfect title. And that's why we've never really moved away from it because it's like,
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah, no, this is the title. This explains everything and there's layers to the explanation of that, right? It's literal and figurative. Yeah, like there's layers to that title as simple as it is within the context of the movie. And you have to see the movie and take time with the movie to
00:44:54
Speaker
Well, you probably don't have to take time with it. Let's not, uh, let's not over exaggerate here, but certainly you will understand. Oh, okay. This is why you call it that. Yes. And I think we, you know, it wasn't easy. I will say.
00:45:16
Speaker
But I think we hit a lot of emotional payoffs in the film that were never there. In any of the previous cuts, we've- Oh, definitely. We've capitalized and delivered on all the emotional payoffs that we had originally intended. Because really, and the thing too is what I'm so happy about and what kind of really gives me a lot of positivity. I mean, because when I look back, it's like,
00:45:47
Speaker
Man, we took too long. We did X, Y, and Z. All these mistakes. Jesus fucking Christ. There's just some messes that can never be fixed.
00:46:01
Speaker
There is some exceptional work on display. And when we allowed ourselves to like kind of ignore whatever imposter syndrome bullshit or whatever it is that was going on and just said, let's just take the movie seriously. Uh, guess what? Like it was, it worked like holy shit. Like I think the strength does come down to our writing.
00:46:31
Speaker
And what really kind of sells it is when you come in, it's like, you know, a lot of people like knives out because there's a lot of setup payoff.
00:46:47
Speaker
OK, when you think about Ryan Johnson, he's like if you say so. He's a big fan of this, where it's like, you know, this guy lives, there's knives all over the house, but you know, the only one he knows how to he grabs is the fake one or whatever. I don't know. There's a lot of setup and payoff in that movie. I didn't like it. I'm not a big fan of that movie. I kind of hate that movie, honestly. But. What I mean is like we we hopefully have a lot of setup and payoff.
00:47:16
Speaker
in the film that if you ever want to watch it again, I don't know if anyone would ever want to watch it twice. I'm hoping that once it's polished and it's nice and the audio is balanced and it actually sounds and the colors all match. Some of the scenes are still a little too bright, I think. Oh, yeah.
00:47:40
Speaker
I think there's just not even just color. Because I think there's technically difference between the color grade and then actually the brightness, that kind of thing. There's like dark to the grade, and then there's the correction. Yes. Yes, exactly. There is a difference between those two, yeah. But usually when you say color grade, I think when you say color grade,
00:48:08
Speaker
in the film industry, you kind of also mean color correction.
00:48:12
Speaker
Yeah, because I know there's definitely a difference between them. And then they might not even be done by the same person sometimes. Yeah, I have no idea. I have no idea. Probably not. I would imagine not. Yeah. Because I remember watching a video, our documentary on Ol' Brother were out there. They were the first ones to do it. And that was to do digital color correction. They were the first ones to do color grading. Never existed until that film.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, when you watch it and you're just like, they just, right. They, if you were watching that movie, you would not know that those, all those trees were like green as fuck.
00:48:51
Speaker
Like there were no, like that, if you ever watched the movie, the whole movie is kind of done in this like almost like sepia tone. Everything is yellow and brown and kind of like faded and diluted. But when you look at the raw image that they actually shot for the film, it's like,
00:49:10
Speaker
The trees are green and there's like, you know, normal contrast and all this shit. And they go in and they like were able to, I don't know how they do it. Like maybe they just hand, like hand select the trees individually and then they color time and change that. Well, back then probably. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just like, I remember watching that video and just thinking like.
00:49:31
Speaker
There's some movies are magic like movie magic. I mean, I don't know how else to put it, you know, like I mean, like with Dickhead. We tried so fucking hard to just make a cohesive story. Yeah. And I think as first time filmmakers, the problem is the story filmmakers. Well, I mean, first time like feature filmmakers and and really first time
00:50:02
Speaker
filmmakers in a degree where it's like, no, this is what we're going to do. Like, I mean, it's literally my first film. Right. Like this is our, like, this is our baby. Yeah.
00:50:16
Speaker
You know, despite like any short I've worked on or made or anything like that, like, no, Dickhead is like every bit of what I could put in made it into this film. And it's like, Dickhead, really? That's all we got. It's our one shot.
00:50:35
Speaker
It acapulates so much about who I am and what I love about film and horror as a genre. I think it's too easy to just beat up on yourself. It's too easy to
00:50:57
Speaker
to self-deprecate and be like, well, it's all just garbage. But also, I was watching, for the first time ever, I watched Autopsy of Jane Doe. And I was watching this movie. Go ahead. Do you want to stop me? Well, I don't know how much of a tangent you're going to go on with Jane Doe. It's a quick one. OK, yeah, please finish then. Sorry. OK, so I was watching Jane Doe.
00:51:28
Speaker
It's a pretty solid film. It's solid. It's a very solid film. I noticed that the funny thing is, and I know you, I don't know, maybe you think I'm crazy, but I was starting to get dickhead vibes a little bit of the way through. I guess that they have Emil Hirsch and Brian Cox. Not that I'm saying we have bad actors, but we don't got Brian Cox.
00:51:52
Speaker
You look at the original Hannibal Lecter himself. But there's a scene where he's sitting in an elevator with his son, played by Miller Hirsch, and they're kind of like having their moment. And I was like, this feels so much like Jennifer and Richard
00:52:16
Speaker
scene where they're having their moment, where it's a clear back and forth, because like, Amila Hirsch is like, it's probably a witch, like, this shit's not real. You killed my fucking girlfriend. He's probably a witch, dude. You killed my fucking girlfriend, you fucking, you daddy.
00:52:35
Speaker
He killed my girlfriend. Spoilers for autopsy of Jane Doe. I have two things to say about Jane Doe. And then I was just thinking like, dude, this is kind of very kind of reminiscent, which whenever I see that, I've never seen this movie before. And honestly, if Dickhead had like, let's say Dickhead only took a year to make, Dickhead would have came out around the exact same time as this film.
Film Comparisons and Thematic Depth
00:53:08
Speaker
I almost killed Steven. Oh, fuck. Like Jane Doe was released in 2016 and we shot Dickhead in 2015. So. Oh, shit. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. And I was just because I feel like part of the issue is just like, man, so many people are going to be like, you guys are fucking ripped off. This is boyhood, baby.
00:53:37
Speaker
Oh, but another thing. OK, so so Jane Doe wrapping it up. Hot flash. Hot flash. Really young for hot flash, my friend. So Jane Doe to wrap up about that. You know, the only thing I was thinking about is the end. This movie just doesn't know how to fucking end. Yeah, that's fair. And I felt I know that's one thing I was like,
00:54:05
Speaker
We kind of had a pretty lengthy drug out ending. Like the thing is, I remember you think so. Oh, yeah. Well, I really do it big time. Bad. Our ending. I think it was too much. I honestly think there's an argument to be made that we can end it in the bathroom.
00:54:31
Speaker
Oh, God, no. I honestly think that there's an argument to be made. I do not agree. One hundred percent. I do not agree. I think that's like a French new wave like avant-garde. No, I think that's correct. You end at like the most capital exclamation point. But I don't think we do because I think you lose.
00:55:00
Speaker
You lose on a big. Aspect of. This this this synergy. Irregardless, we're not ending it there. I'm just saying I think there is an argument to be made if for whatever reason the ending didn't work, we could have just ended it there. Yeah, if the ending didn't work, sure, but I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just saying I'm just saying there. I think where are we getting on on this?
00:55:30
Speaker
I'm just saying, it could happen. There's a proper universe where that happens. There's a universe where he's kind of there. Yeah, no, I'm serious. He just chops up to pieces and it just ends there and it's like... Yeah, no, I don't think so. There's a French movie that ends just like that, I'm sure.
00:55:51
Speaker
But what I'm saying is, damn it, I got me on defending like that, an idea that I thought would never work. Oh, yeah. It was just an idea. Okay, man. The fat on the end. So something that we did, and maybe this was more me, I don't know how you feel about it now, or maybe you like it now and you did it before, I don't know, is I cut out or we cut out
00:56:22
Speaker
Some like kind of like like what was a kind of a big scene that wasn't really working with them in the backyard or them outside kind of like that's a big scene. It's supposed to like signify like Tom fighting back. Yeah, I mean. But then he fights back again.
00:56:44
Speaker
which I think the way we have it now is way better. I think the way we have it now is way better. Like, like it's, if we are at a giving a percentage, it's like 90% better with that scene cut. Yeah. I don't think it that that's a big scene. I think that was, you made the right choice in cutting that 100%. It was just, I think that scene was a logical choice. You know, like you're running away,
00:57:12
Speaker
This is how you're trying to escape and the killer is a step ahead and cutting off the routes of escape. That's it. Well, it was that, but it was also to, to show the sadism.
00:57:27
Speaker
Yes, yes. It was it was there to capitalize the difference between the two, the two. Yeah, which I think is the origin as the intended of all of that. Yeah, right. And the thing is like Freeman's performance sells it. Yeah. And that's kind of like the thing I've enjoyed a lot because
00:57:54
Speaker
I know we were trying to, because I think we are going to end up in more around the 80 minute mark to the 90 minute mark. I'm fine if it's 90 minutes, but it has to be worth it. You know what I'm saying? And if the audio can push it to that, and if it needs to be that for the emotional
00:58:18
Speaker
aspects to land, 100% I'm okay with 90. I just would always say it needs to be like an hour, 10 or 70 minutes because we need to just show this and get out.
00:58:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that should be our mindset. We need to show this as fast as possible, get it out there as quick as possible and get out as fast as possible. And that's one thing I've been and the reason why I brought it up is and I know like maybe this episode is just more of a.
00:58:51
Speaker
This is just more of an insight to other filmmakers and to what goes into the thought process that we have into crafting the film. And that I think could be, there's maybe some value there, even if contextually that this doesn't make any sense to anyone but us, this conversation. Well, that's some of what I wanted to interject with was to clarify for those out there.
00:59:19
Speaker
We wrote the story. It's a slasher film that kind of turns itself upside down, takes a twist. And that was kind of the premise of it initially. And so we wrote it that way. But then through filming and with the first few cuts, it was not how the script was at all. Especially once we filmed it,
00:59:48
Speaker
we lost a lot of the original elements to what we had wrote and what we wanted because we caved in a little too early. But then once you and I took that time to edit it, we were able to cut it in a way and deliver it in a way to where we still hit the beats we had originally intended within the writing.
01:00:16
Speaker
and with our latest cut that I don't think, you know, people can definitely criticize the length of time it took to get here, but we never would have got here without this length of time, plain and simple. And it needed to take this amount of time to get to where this film is gonna be at when you finally see it. And when you finally see it, it's really gonna be pretty,
01:00:43
Speaker
pretty close to what the original script was. It's gonna definitely have the, if we moved away our cut scenes, it's still gonna have the heart of what we were trying to capture in those scenes. And that was- All that is still there. Yeah, and that's one of the things I'm happiest with this latest cut we have is the fact that it mirrors the script so closely and even better.
01:01:10
Speaker
You know, like, sure, some scenes maybe had their importance and, you know, you feel it's heartbreaking to have to cut them, but we're only cutting them because we also capture that like in scene five. Yeah, sure, we cut scene three, but we captured a lot. We're going to capture the heart of scene three and scene five. And that's why scene five is so hard because
01:01:35
Speaker
Scene three for our film was supposed to be the setup of the characters and for you to understand who these characters are, where they're coming from, their friendship. And then scene five is a continuation of kind of what scene three was with the discussion and developing that relationship. But we decided to cut it for the reasons Tom stated earlier.
01:02:01
Speaker
And also it just makes it more efficient, just cleaner because we're hoping to capture the heart of scene three and scene five, which is a lot of heart because it has to develop the relationship between two of the central characters. And so far we've done that in the other subsequent scenes and been able to hit that mark.
01:02:28
Speaker
For instance, in the original script of Scene 5, we then meet other characters, and then they have a little back and forth, and we develop those characters more and show the relationships. However, we didn't get them back, so we couldn't shoot that. But in Scene 6, we kind of establish
01:02:49
Speaker
all of that. And then later on and seeing like 40 or whatever at once they get to the Halloween party, we also establish other characters dynamics. And we're able to kind of bring it back around. And yeah, we didn't capture what was in the script, but we're still showing you the little nuggets of what was supposed to be there. And
01:03:13
Speaker
allowing the audience to realize that this is a living world, it's a much larger world, there is history between the characters and there's something to be had there. I'm definitely feeling buzzed. But so everyone's on the same page, that's one of the big aspects that we were able to do is
01:03:35
Speaker
Once we got to this later edit, we got closer again to the original concept, to the script for this film. And in some sense, a lot of that turned into kind of a happy accident. Oh, yeah. Because if, let's just say everyone had shown up that day
01:04:02
Speaker
Boy, we would be in a kind of a weird place only in the sense that our amateurish little horror film was going to be two and a half hours long. How long was the script? It was 90 pages, right? No, dude, the script is way longer than 90 pages. You probably have a faster... Let me... I could probably bring it up. It's probably around 125.
01:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds more about right. Let me look. I have the script here. Probably about 125 pages, which in film terms, one page equals about one minute. So roughly the film's around 125 minutes. I literally have the script right here if you want me to get it. I got it. It's open.
01:04:56
Speaker
Okay, it's loading. Really? It's only... 79 pages? There you go, buddy. 70 minutes. No way. 70 minutes. That can't be right. Well, I have the shot script right here and it's already longer.
01:05:24
Speaker
Well, the shot script is way long. Well, the shot script is 115 pages. So yeah, the original script is probably about 79 pages. Oh, wow. That's cool. Yeah. And I think we're going to hit around 80 minutes. I don't know. We might actually hit around 90. But that's fine. I'm fine with us hitting 90.
01:05:48
Speaker
If that delivers the emotional elements, because when we wrote the script, yeah, it's your cheesy horror film, but we try to make characters you would like. We try to make characters that you would miss when they die. And so we try to give every single character, at least some sort of emotional element, emotional beat to them. Definitely. And that way it would hurt when they die. And, and I think we captured that so far.
01:06:22
Speaker
I think something that because I know comparison is the thief of joy or whatever the kids say these days. Is that what the kids say? Yeah, man, they're kind of deep. You know, I should be less hard on them. They're pretty deep. They dig those churches deep, those whippersnappers. But what I want to say is like,
Filming Challenges and Thematic Elements
01:06:52
Speaker
We, uh, especially once I'm telling you, like we're watching it so raw right now, right? Yeah, we are. It is so raw and it's still like, I go back and forth and I have my up and down moments with it because there's sometimes it's just like, yeah,
01:07:15
Speaker
We really should have like said dressed. Yeah. Yeah. We really should have like, I don't know, maybe added a more interesting light or like something here, you know. Yeah. OK, this is pretty flat. It's pretty boring. I mean, yes, the party's supposed to be boring, but.
01:07:38
Speaker
I mean, it was all practical elements or practicality that got in the way of all of that, right? I mean, the vision of it. Whoo, man, what I imagine this film to be. Oh, no, yeah, definitely.
01:07:53
Speaker
But then there's like, there are just some beats when I watch them. I'm like, Jesus Christ, this is fucking intense. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think that that's the strength of our film. I'll say is that, you know, this is a film by two guys who
01:08:12
Speaker
never did a film before who did it for no money. And it has those elements of films that are like that, that you see on 2B. But I think we gave the audience a lot more than they were expecting and then also what they asked for.
01:08:35
Speaker
Yes, you know, absolutely. And that's all I can really be proud of because, yeah, I got to get back to comparison is the thief of joy when because I, you know. We've had quite a few guests on this show. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, getting ready. Here he goes. A lot of say something about how much better take it is.
01:09:05
Speaker
A lot of them. And then you're going to see Dickhead. He'd be like, fuck Tom. It's raw right now. You know, I'm just saying we've had.
01:09:18
Speaker
the experience, the pleasure of of having many guests that have been at or around what I would call our level. Because, you know, it's not like we're, you know, like the Henry Sugar short. It's like I hate that that kind of shit exists in a sense. But the hell the Henry Sugar short. Can you explain?
01:09:46
Speaker
Is that the one by The Kid? No, that's the one by Wes Anderson. Oh. Imagination of Henry Sugar or something. The one that got Best Picture with Benedict Cumberbatch on Netflix. Yeah. 45 minutes long if anyone wants to see it. Yeah. Sorry, I'm a bit drunk. I know it's called Henry Sugar or something. I'm pretty drunk too. I got dizzy when I was talking for a second. But yeah, I want to talk about it.
01:10:12
Speaker
You know, like in the vastness of the world, like all of that con like I hate saying I'm not gonna say content because stupid all of those films exist on some weird playing playing field. Right. So like
01:10:32
Speaker
What do you mean? No, no, hold on. Hold on. God, I'm getting there. OK, so like no matter what happens or wherever dickhead goes. Right. Like if dickhead ever gets released in any way, shape or form, which, you know, we're hoping it does, like Netflix or to be or something to be buys and find us on to be five million dollars.
01:10:56
Speaker
Five million dollars. You can have our movie. Or, you know, five hundred thousand. Five dollars. All right. Five cents. Five cents. Come on. Five pennies. I'll take a nickel. I'll take a nickel.
01:11:14
Speaker
It's like that it exists in the world where Casablanca exists. Oh God. Citizen Kane. 70 minutes. Passion of Joan of Arc, Saving Private Ryan, The Exorcist. All of these exist as these are all films.
01:11:39
Speaker
I mean, we can say like, oh, we had no budget. Oh, we had no experience. Right. But it's like at the end of the day, we're just trying to tell a story through filmmaking. Yeah. And. There's a lot of care and dedication that we hope can make it through. And, you know, we. You know, how do you say this without being an asshole? Let me hear.
01:12:07
Speaker
I mean, I will say this is what I'll say. Be an asshole. Come on. I want to hear the asshole version. OK, asshole version. So everyone else just rushed their shit out because that was what they want to do because everything to them is a stepping stone to the next thing. OK.
01:12:24
Speaker
While we could have very easily done that with Dickhead, we have sacrificed what could have been the potential of two or three more feature films in that time.
01:12:43
Speaker
you know, potentially make something, to make the thing that we wanted to make and to learn how to make the thing we wanted to make work. Yeah. Well, also to capture what we imagined this was, right? Yes. Yeah. So,
01:13:02
Speaker
you know, when our contemporaries, that's a good word. People like that word. When our contemporaries have put out their films. I mean, you know, like the thing is, is like, we've watched all of them. And, you know, they range from, you know, enjoyable,
01:13:27
Speaker
films like Natasha Hall, Great and Terrible Day of the Lord, Hair Trigger, to The Weird, and I don't even know who done it. I would actually kind of like to have that guy on the show. No, we got to get Thomas on the show. I'd love to have a talk with him because it's like I'm very
01:13:54
Speaker
I'm very fascinated by that level of egocentrism where the director is so in front of the camera that he's literally written himself into the movie and cast someone else to play him. Yeah. And it is so weird.
01:14:19
Speaker
I don't know. I'm so very fascinated by that film. It's very weird, but very interesting, right? Yeah. And then, you know, like, like we have, uh, that kill her movie, which, Oh yeah. Um, which, you know, I will say I did give it a chance on your recommendation. Cause I w the first time I watched it, I was like, Oh God, I'm done. Fuck this. But then you were like, no, man, don't be such a pretentious asshole. Just watch it. And that film.
01:14:51
Speaker
That film got, I enjoyed it, man. I was like, okay, this shit's really good. Like it really paid off after the midway point, I think is when it's, or maybe after the first act, it really started to come into its own and become its own thing. And I was like, oh shit, this is pretty damn cool. Pretty damn cool concept. And it worked really well. I mean, it certainly had its issues, but.
01:15:21
Speaker
Um, I mean, I would be proud of it for sure. I'd be like, hell yeah, I did that. Like, check it out. Yeah. I mean, that's why I'm not, I'm not trying to be disparaging. I'm not saying Dickhead is better or worse than any of these films. Definitely. I wouldn't say better.
01:15:37
Speaker
Well, like I said, we're pretty raw right now. Let's see what it looks like in the final. You know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm being crazy. No, I mean, I would say that I don't think Dick has better, per se. I would just say that we took our time and we found the right elements to keep in and to cut.
01:16:07
Speaker
And a lot of the films that you mentioned, they probably would have been a lot stronger if they killed their darlings more, you know? And a lot of them didn't and they left stuff in and then it kind of just went in weird directions, some of those films where it's like, oh, what are you doing? You had me and then now you lost me. So I think that will,
01:16:35
Speaker
I mean, that's what I hope will come through is the fact that we spent the time on this. And we gave people a little more than, than what they might expect. And we've made it worth their time. I hope my biggest hope, like when it comes down to like, that's like one stick heads, like all done.
01:17:00
Speaker
It's packaged for festivals and it's going to go out there and people finally start to see it. At least people take into account the layers that we have invested into the film, into the writing.
01:17:27
Speaker
I don't know, like, this is where I worry about being too close. Oh, we are way too close, unfortunately. It's like, I see, I can see every little piece, right? It's like when you watch Blade Runner a million times and you're just like, you know, like, oh, you know, that noodle connects to this noodle or some shit. First there was Blade Runner and then there was Dickhead. Sorry, Ridley.
01:17:56
Speaker
But I mean, I'm dead serious, right? Like, oh, I know you are. I mean, down to I mean, that's what I'm saying is like anyone that like is overly critical of the movie, I'm just like, but what about this, this and this? Like every little thing has something. I mean, and I'm like, does every movie have that?
01:18:21
Speaker
I don't think so. Is it a good thing? I hope so. Only because it feels like the movie has all these little reward nuggets.
01:18:33
Speaker
Yeah. It's like an achievement point. It's like, oh, I see what they did. You saw this. I see what you guys did there. I see. Right. Like, I feel like that as long as some people are appreciative of that, it's like, I see what you guys did there. And like that phrasing exactly. It's like that would just make me over the world because it means that I'm just not completely or we're not completely nuts.
01:19:00
Speaker
Yeah, because I feel like it's like it's clear as day When it's you know, it's like We have like a big thing and if you I know people listen this podcast like maybe they can like when they when the film finally becomes available to them to watch They'll have lucky and remember but I always will think about there's this This little tiny setup that you probably would never catch But it's there
01:19:31
Speaker
And it's Lexi. She's finally getting into her. It's just one-on-one. There's no pretension. She's not putting on an act. She's just melting into who she is as a person. And she points at Jennifer and she goes, you know he has his eye on you.
01:20:00
Speaker
And then we cut that fucker's eyes out. And it's like anyone that tries to take his Jennifer away from him, they get what there's coming to him.
01:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, in a sense. Yeah. And, you know, and that, you know, Callista makes a comment on it. And it's like a lot of people like make a comment on Kevin's eyes. And, you know, then we were from out. Yeah. And it's like, maybe that. I mean, I hope that the intention was that people would pick up on that. Right. And it's like, Lexi, you know, like.
01:20:49
Speaker
Her character is like, she's like playful, but once, you know, once all that is melted away, you realize like that's not who she is at all. Yeah. There's a scent. There's another side. Like he said, reflections. Yeah, it's all right. Exactly.
01:21:09
Speaker
Like the reflections of people, you know, show them to their true selves in a sense. And we kind of show that as as often as we can in the film. And it's a big part of the movie, too, is is reflections and mirrors are very present. And almost like every other scene, there's a fucking mirror. Yeah, Janet, when Jennifer is removing her shirt, but she stops just at the last minute, the last second.
01:21:39
Speaker
before revealing anything, giving too much away in the reflection of the mirror. You know, the lights cut out. And then, you know, she starts to investigate what's happening. But it's also like she never truly shows who she is either. And, you know, there you go in the mirror, you know, like it she doesn't, you know, fully reveal herself.
01:22:09
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm traveling a little too far with the traveler whiskey. But you know, these are the stuff I think about all the time, right? When I look at the film, it's like, no, everything in here has its purpose. And that's why it's so hard to cut away from the runtime, in a sense, because
01:22:36
Speaker
I felt like we've chopped away all the redundancy and everything that's left is left because it's adding something. Well, that's also why we need the beta viewers, I guess you could call them instead of beta readers, is for them to see what we're not and see if there's redundancy that we're not seeing.
01:22:59
Speaker
And then also if there is redundancy, well, is that bad? I mean, reiteration is not really a bad thing. You know, so it's, it's only a bad thing, um, when used incorrectly. Yeah. And this is why.
Emotional Scene Importance
01:23:20
Speaker
it was okay to cut scene three. Just because while scene three is a more light, playful version that also sets up the end scene very, very well. Unfortunately. Though other stuff cut things, other things set that up too. So it's okay.
01:23:49
Speaker
There's a lot of buildup to that final emotional scene between those two characters. Because really, that's when you kind of realize what the movie's all been about. And it's like, oh, this isn't just a Halloween ripoff, we hope. We hope. Right, because we rolled some pretty heavy dice
01:24:20
Speaker
What it's kind of like, this is like making fun of those movies in a sense. Yeah. Uh, because it's like, okay, you're so used to it, right? You're like, this is just going to be Halloween. This is just going to be Halloween. And then we're like, Nope.
01:24:39
Speaker
There's a point where we ripped the rug out and it's like, Oh, this you're right. This is a days and confused me. It's Halloween. Yeah. I don't know, man. I just hope, I mean, I'm really happy with the way things are going only in the sense that.
01:25:04
Speaker
Yeah, it sucks. That took so long. I mean, not sure we could have probably I'm sure there's a reality like I don't know. Hey, I hate kind of bullying the multiverse. You know, there's a reality where, you know, you're jelly and I'm peanut butter and we just hug all the time. Yeah. But, you know, like there's a universe where we definitely got this done faster. But
01:25:34
Speaker
Um. This product is. You know, to I mean, we're no Kubrick, but we take as long.
Meticulous Filmmaking Approach
01:25:46
Speaker
And that's because we've exhausted everything. I mean, to the point where it's like, we've gone through every take, every single clip, every little piece of audio dialogue. We've seen it. Even before the take, seeing if there's something before the take we could use.
01:26:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we've gone through, that's the thing Kubrick famous for, by the way, is he would go through every take a thousand times before he found the little piece that he wanted. Yeah. And he took a thousand takes, which is insane. Yeah.
01:26:24
Speaker
Well, but I kind of hate having too much takes. Um, because I sometimes have a hard time knowing what's right some, uh, cause it's like, I know, especially with scene six, I remember you would show me stuff and I'm like,
01:26:44
Speaker
Well, it's not that one is better. It's that one is different. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the worst part, right? It's just like, well, what do we want? Yeah. I don't know. We want what the story wants. Okay. Well, the story is getting what it wants. So what do you want? Uh, well, uh, I mean, this is the character. This is how they should feel. Uh, so maybe this, uh, well, the character also feels that way too. It's like, Oh, shit.
01:27:14
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we were literally getting down to the fucking like
Subtle Storytelling Techniques
01:27:18
Speaker
nitty gritty of like, well, this smirk more signifies that. Yeah. That she's kind of upset in this reaction while in this take.
01:27:31
Speaker
She's completely a smirk. She's actually just scowling full-on scowling Yeah, so it's like well, is she is she taking it more seriously? Is she taking it more playfully? What is the final outcome? And it's like is anyone in their fucking right mind going to be like Wow, that's gal signifies Yeah, that's true. That's true, but but
01:27:59
Speaker
In our defense, it's those little details that should hopefully add up to the bigger picture. Yeah, that the audience doesn't catch, but they're there because we've been building it. Yeah. And it also lets you find something to take away.
01:28:25
Speaker
Right. Like we have a big thing with, um, with reactions in the film. And this is one thing that, um, I would really push to other filmmakers. It's something that, uh, I've been really proud of in our edit is we don't let any, any, um, like nonverbal reactions go to waste. Yeah.
01:28:50
Speaker
There's a lot of showing and not telling that we're pulling off. And I think especially when you're dealing with audiences that like movies like Terrifier and stuff, you're like, oh, people. That is not our audience. People don't like subtlety, do they?
01:29:15
Speaker
I think about that big time because Kevin's character is like, it is all sold in his reactions. Luckily, and thank God for Chris,
01:29:29
Speaker
because, boy, does he not deliver in a lot of places, but when he does deliver, he delivers it in such a sweet way. And I'm so glad that we caught that. I'm going to bring a scene up. I'm going to talk about it because it's something that Stephen caught that is just just after kiss. Beautiful. Quick, quick break. Are we going to keep going longer? Because I'm going to fill up another drink if we are. I'm down.
01:29:59
Speaker
Okay. Well, do you want to talk about your scene? Cause I'm going to get to it eventually. And while I grab another drink. Yeah. Okay. I'm just building up to, uh, building up to it. Yeah. Build up as you need. Yeah. So, uh, we've kind of established that Chris's character, his name is Kevin.
01:30:22
Speaker
He's kind of a. He's a little bit more on the superficial side of things. He doesn't.
01:30:33
Speaker
Let's just say he's, you know, as like what they say is there's one too many conquests in the desert. You start to buy in your own bullshit type of thing. And that's kind of who Kevin's character is. Right. Like he he's hot for his small town.
01:30:54
Speaker
And that kind of gives him, and he's just sly enough and charming enough that he uses that to kind of get away with murder in a sense, almost. Like he can just bang you like any girl he wants. And it's like, oh, he's like that cute boy in the small town that is giving you attention type of guy. So that's who Kevin is.
01:31:22
Speaker
And so there's a scene where he's, you know, alone with Jennifer, because Jennifer has become his new object of affection. She's the new girl in town. The foreign girl that's caught everyone's eye, everyone's, you know, interest because they're all so
01:31:44
Speaker
interlocked in their own stories and who they are, right? If you've ever been to a small town or a small community, it's like everyone kind of knows everybody through somebody else or directly. And the scene is Jennifer has just been attacked by Tom, our stalker killer, psycho man.
01:32:13
Speaker
And. She's. You know, found some respite, some safety in the arms of this man. You know, played by Kevin. Our name, Kevin, played by Chris. And in this scene, the setup is kind of like this, right, like.
01:32:37
Speaker
She's explaining she's been attacked. And he's just kind of like playing along listening. And he's like not really paying attention.
01:32:50
Speaker
And she's just like giving this emotional heart wrenching, hopefully heart wrenching. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, it comes off pretty, pretty good. I think I'm pretty happy with how that all comes together. And then it comes all together. And Jennifer, she goes.
01:33:20
Speaker
And I'm going to wait for Steven. Oh, look at him go. He's pouring a Coke in the, into something born a Coke into something. Oh, he's getting ready. He's putting it in his seat. So the setup is this Jennifer goes, my dad, you know, he killed himself and the look.
01:33:52
Speaker
that Chris Gibbs right after that tells you everything you need to know about Kevin as a person. Yeah.
01:34:05
Speaker
And without that little like, wow, this is a, this is getting deep. I, you know, I just thought I was going to put it in you, you know, like, I was like, just fuck you and get out of here. And the first, you know, he's really being approached with some serious shit. Yeah.
01:34:28
Speaker
And originally in the script, things were flipped around. It's when he has his talk with Toasty versus Dad. And then I was kind of like, no, like this fits in a way because
01:34:45
Speaker
Chris, Kevin's character is conflicted in the sense that like, he's never really had to deal with serious shit before. Yeah, he's basically, he's basically 90210, right? Like, I mean, he's like, yeah, so-and-so slept with so-and-so, not like, oh, your dad died in the war and that left you scarred throughout your entire upbringing and dealing with heavy shit like that.
01:35:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's he's more lived the existence of. I'm the hot guy, you know, I'm the I'm the Victorville 10. Yeah, he's like, well, he is a Ted, but he's also just as happy go lucky fuck boy, right? Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly who he is. And.
01:35:35
Speaker
Uh, his relationships never get any more complex than. Hey, you want to bang? Okay. Hey, you want to bang it? I'm not going to be your boyfriend, but you know, if you want to have some fun, but I got abs, you want to touch him, you know, what really, uh, and then reiterates Chris's character in that scene is immediately after that, when he goes to his reply that I love.
01:36:04
Speaker
because then he says, yeah, I understand how that can be for you. Or, you know, yeah. How hard that could be. Yeah, he's like, yeah, I know how hard that could be.
01:36:14
Speaker
And it's like, bitch, you've never been through that kind of shit. Fuck you. You have no idea how hard that could be. But just him saying that, right? Just to increase his advantage over her, right? Moving the chess piece as he needs to. I love that line right after just like, because he's sincere too, right? He's the leader in such a sincere way. Like, yeah, I know how hard that can be. You know?
01:36:43
Speaker
We just got to enjoy life and make it better. Enjoy the day. Exactly. And he's like, I mean, in some ways, there's no bigger dickhead than Kevin. Because in a sense, he doesn't actually care about what's going on with her at all. You think so?
01:37:10
Speaker
I don't even remember originally in the script. He doesn't, right? In the script, he really doesn't. In the script, he doesn't. Like at all. I mean, if he actually cared, he would have called the police and like, or driven her to the police station or something. Or just somewhere safe.
01:37:30
Speaker
Taking her to Dal Taco, right? I mean, we doubled down. Don't worry, baby. I'm taking you to my mom's house. What? It's just been attacked by some stranger in her house. You know, she showed up at your party and you fucking drug her and you're too afraid that the cops will find out that you drug her. So you're going to like just dump her at your mom's.
01:37:54
Speaker
We double down on his douchery. The thing is too, I love that we don't address some of the things and that it is left ambiguous where he says, yeah, I called the police. They said it's going to take an hour. She's like, an hour? What the fuck? I feel like audience members will be like, I don't remember when he called the police and it's like, yeah, he never did. Or did he?
01:38:23
Speaker
He never even thought about it. The thought literally never crossed his mind. There's no way he's called the cops. Just that ain't happening.
01:38:33
Speaker
Sleep it off, feel better. And the thing too is, right, like through acting and through the script and through editing, it comes off so sincere. Which is the most painful part, right? Like we re-edited, because for all of those who don't know, there's a scene with Jennifer and Kevin when they're having a heart-to-heart after, as he's drugging her.
01:38:57
Speaker
And we did edit a little scare in there, so that might take away from it with this new cut we have, right? But the last cut we did, the original intention, it feels painful because Jennifer feels so safe with him, and it's such a sincere moment, but you know in the cup.
01:39:23
Speaker
is a sedative of some sort. You know, a date rape drug, essentially. Something his dad gives him to calm the bitch down, right? Yeah, a sedative to calm her down so she don't fuck up the party. That's really the idea behind all that. But with her just feeling so safe with him
01:39:48
Speaker
And like, he's gonna take care of her, or help her, I should say. Well, take care of her. He's gonna be that man that comes and saves a princess. And you realize, this motherfucker's worse than the dragon, man. And not even in a malicious way. I mean, maybe you might have thoughts of what Kevin might do once he gets to his mom's house or whatever.
01:40:14
Speaker
But in my head, it's not necessarily in a malicious way he's doing this. He just doesn't want her to spoil the party and spoil his chances at hooking up with someone. And. That's pretty malicious, buddy. Yeah, but it's not malicious. It's not malicious to the extent like he's trying to date rape her. You know, that's pretty fucking dark.
01:40:38
Speaker
I felt like that's, I mean, I... But it's left ambiguous. I was going to say exactly. It's left ambiguous. It's left ambiguous enough that if your interpretation was that he was going to essentially take... He might not even take her to his mom's. He could take her to fucking Motel 6. Because he knows she's going to pass out on him.
01:41:03
Speaker
And because she's practically passing out the entire time that he's getting her in the car. Yeah. Right. She's sluggish. She's slow. Her ankle is swollen and damaged. She can't even walk. And he's like literally dragging her out of his house. Yeah. To do.
01:41:23
Speaker
I mean, and that's where the audience can kind of fill it in. And the sad thing too is like, even though she's been drugged, and even though everything that's happened, she's just like, you know, thank you for taking care of me. Cause she doesn't even realize what's happened to her because she's under the influences.
01:41:46
Speaker
Under the influences of the drug and under the influence of him, right? Yeah.
Character Self-Medication and Development
01:41:51
Speaker
Having that heart to heart moment with her trying to be the good guy of the night in shining armor. And yeah, I mean, that scene, we need to capture that aspect of it. And we do. I just don't know how well it plays by the extension of things.
01:42:11
Speaker
but that's there. But man, that hurt a little bit. He has a lot of regret. You can tell. That's the one thing, Chris, I love that guy to death, Chris Lamonda, man. Oh, I love Chris. Great guy. He plays it really conflicted because he's not a complete sociopath.
01:42:40
Speaker
Kevin's character is not a sociopath. He's just a playboy dickhead. Like, that's what he is. Yeah, he just breaks women's hearts and doesn't feel bad about it. Yeah, he, you know, like, we set it up, you know, one too many conquest in the desert.
01:42:56
Speaker
You buy your own bullshit. He believes that he is the hottest shit that has ever walked the earth. Yeah. And there's that scene in the car and it's like, God damn it, dude, we really fucking did it. We really did it. Yeah. This is why I like alcohol more than weed sometimes, because it's like, you know, like, I will say this weed, like.
01:43:21
Speaker
dramatically lowers my IQ. Like, plummets. Like, I'm hanging out in the low digits, single digits. Like, they're probably species of snail that have like higher IQ than when I'm stoned. But, you know, the whiskey, I think the whiskey almost like brings out like a poetic romanticism. That's why Bukowski did it. It's because it's kind of like self-destruction through
01:43:53
Speaker
the elimination of the bullshit. You know, while I think you might use a drug like LSD or psilocybin to- Onto drugs, everyone. I think those also kill the bullshit, but they're not doing it in a self-destructive way. They're doing it in a constructive way.
01:44:17
Speaker
It's a constructive way. That's the interesting thing about psilocybin versus like alcohol or LSD. It's like alcohol.
01:44:31
Speaker
It wants to just destroy in a sense, right? Alcohol is like, alcohol is fire. Yeah. And like psilocybin is like, it's just water. It's just rain. Maybe you might drown, but it also nourishes life. Cause it's like, man, when you're, when you're going on a trip and you're kind of like,
01:44:58
Speaker
man, who gives a shit about this kind of thing? Like, I'm just going for it. And that's kind of like Kevin. Yeah, he's kind of like, he's like the alcohol. Like he can he'll get you a solution. But you're gonna have to suffer.
01:45:20
Speaker
And that happens, right? And this is the love of, okay, sorry, I was the tangent, it came back to me. So Chris, in the car. He's sitting in the car. And this is as he's gonna take the protagonist somewhere safe.
01:45:39
Speaker
Well, he's taking her away from the party. We don't really understand why. But this is what's set up for the audience. So they know what's going on. Yeah, he's taking her out of the party because she's too fucked up. She's too fucked up. She went through too much shit. He's getting her somewhere else.
01:45:57
Speaker
Right. To do whatever you think he might be doing. I mean, the thing is, is we never answer the question. It's completely left off the audience to truly interpret his intention. And we already questioned his morality with the fact he would give someone a date rape drug to help them.
01:46:21
Speaker
Yes. Like what? But there's this scene and it's such a lovely little thing that happens. And he, they're sitting in the car together and he looks away from her and he goes, fuck, this is not how I saw this night going. Yeah.
01:46:39
Speaker
This isn't what I wanted. Yeah. And it's like, there's some genuine, there's genuineness behind that statement. Yeah. But also it's like, bro, bro, look what you did. Like, but at the same time, it, it doesn't necessarily humanize his character.
01:47:04
Speaker
No. But it shows that he... Well, it humanizes him, right? Because humans also can do evil things, but it shows he's not simple. He's not one-dimensional. Exactly. He is not one-dimensional. And that is one thing that we tried to put in with all of our characters. None of our characters are one-dimensional. There's almost a reason why they're all dickheads, right? There is. There's a reason why they're all dickheads to an extent.
01:47:34
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I mean... Or a justification for themselves as to why. As to their dickhead dickeriness. They're able to justify their shitty actions. Like all of us, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's really what dickhead... I mean, really, I mean, that's what we were trying to write. We're just real people. As best we could, as best as amateur writers can.
01:48:04
Speaker
I mean, the thing was and one reason why I think just Dickhead is so special. Is that there are aspects of. Everything we know and everyone and and everyone like in those movies or in those characters, sorry. Yeah. And. Wait, what do you mean? Like, it's unfortunate that we all kind of know a Mr. Ward.
01:48:35
Speaker
I based Mr. Ward off of me.
01:48:37
Speaker
Right. Like we all kind of know that guy that, you know, he made a couple of wrong choices. He fucked his life up to a degree that he didn't want to. And he's trying to do everything he can to just live day to day because there's no excitement, no joy left in his life. And so he's literally trying to eke out any little bit he can because
01:49:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:09
Speaker
And he says it. He says it clear as day. I feel like we really knocked it out of the park when it comes to Bo and Ward, especially in that final monologue that he gives. He's like, you don't realize what life is until it happens to you or why kids? What it does to you. What it does to you. But it takes away.
01:49:38
Speaker
And Jennifer, she doesn't, she literally cannot, she cannot sympathize, she can't sympathize with the word at all. Because she has no idea what that life is like. Her struggles are completely different from what his are. Although she knows it's wrong, right? She just knows like, okay, that's not right. Whatever you're doing, it ain't right.
01:50:06
Speaker
There's also this really, there's this interesting aspect of the film too where everyone is like self-medicating in the worst way.
01:50:17
Speaker
Oh, shit, this is hitting too close to the hole, buddy. Right. Like like Tom. Right. Like he he had no like no sense of like his idea of family is so corrupted and fucked and twisted. That he tries to build his own family through violence and murder. While he tries to fix, he tries to repair his family through violence and murder.
01:50:46
Speaker
Right, which is like, well, that's not gonna work. That usually never goes right. Right, you know, and then you have, you know, you have Jennifer, who she is kind of like a loose she it's like, oh, you she gives, you know,
01:51:02
Speaker
Uh, Kevin gives her a glass of alcohol and she's like, good, I like it strong. Right? Like she's just like, I'm just going to pack it down. I'm just going to pack like, well, she likes the fuck, right? That's how she feels the void in her is through sex. But also what I was going to say is like, uh,
01:51:23
Speaker
the pain and the agony that she feels, she's just so good at bearing it away. That this thing that just happened to her, she's already ready to start. She was literally attacked and assaulted in her house. And she's just like- Twice, essentially, right? Twice. Because Ward, that was a very traumatic experience with her instructor. Yeah.
01:51:51
Speaker
And it's like, well, you know, I'm just gonna take it. I'm just gonna get drunk and I'm probably gonna fuck this guy. And, you know, maybe it will make me feel better. And it's like, and you know, and Richard, he's just nipping, right? He's like, I just what I love. I love what we did with this. And it's,
01:52:14
Speaker
Richard only has one thing that he cares about. He only has one thing that is and he is and it is such a perfect reflection of Tom. Yeah. In that like he is sole purposed. He only gives a shit about Jennifer. Where is she? What is she doing? Who is she with? Why isn't she with me? Where is she? Yeah.
01:52:44
Speaker
And that is, and that's what we show, right? Like we even set it up, like, Oh, the Calista is like, like poor Calista, she is our innocent sacrifice. She is our lamb. Um, she is our lamb. And this is more like, this is an interesting kind of podcast because it's like, I would hope that, uh, this, this podcast in particular,
01:53:11
Speaker
for other filmmakers out there could just go into, like, if you're not really thinking about your stories like this, like, I think this is something Steven and I gave a lot of thought about. And rediscovering that in the edit has been very rewarding because when we were sitting at the dining room table,
01:53:38
Speaker
And we were going through like who these characters were, their intentions, their actions and the reasons behind why they're doing what they're doing. Like that is it's so hard to do that without like there's a subtlety to it that it's not easily just done. And I hope that the biggest hope is that like
Dedication and Inspiration in Filmmaking
01:54:08
Speaker
Some of that comes across and man, it's you know, sometimes it's like you talking about dickhead. We talk about dickhead. Mm hmm. And and like I know I know I know like the coloring isn't there. The sound isn't there. Yeah. But I'm also just like, yeah, there's just like it's just amateurish as fuck sometimes. Oh, yeah. But there's a heart, right?
01:54:33
Speaker
There's always a heart at the center. Even the amateurish, amateur stuff. It's like. Just, I mean, I don't know, I hope it's it's earned. In a sense, because. We we cut away, we were deliberately going in and cutting every little bit of fat.
01:55:02
Speaker
Like this is going to be the leanest beefy steak. Hopefully you, you know, I mean, it's going to probably be sauteed in butter and everything. So hopefully it comes out. Okay. But, well, there's a certain charm. We, we hope comes across with this film that yes, we understand who we are, where we're coming from, but hopefully you, you can see past the blemishes.
01:55:33
Speaker
and see that there's a lot of sincerity. You know, I mean, we spent, I mean, we're getting close to 10 years. We spent that amount of time specifically working on this film, trying to get it done. Like, yeah, even when we were just kind of sitting on our, on our asses, it's not like we're walking away from the film. I mean,
01:55:57
Speaker
dickhead is always on my mind, dude. Like getting a dud's always on my mind. What I'm gonna do next with it is always on my mind. What I need to do tonight with Scene 5, you know, I mean, after this podcast, you know, part of my hopes is to just review some of the footage and not fuck around with this thing. Like there's a certain amount of sincerity in heart
01:56:26
Speaker
that we're pouring into this that we hope comes across. And I think it does. I think it does. And I think that's where the charm is. And I think that's what every,
01:56:42
Speaker
first time filmmaker, amateur, no budget person excels is because like Clerks, Clerks is always my go-to. Kevin Smith put a lot of heart into that film. He put his soul into that film and that's why that film is still one of his greatest films ever. It's because he poured so much of himself into it and if it didn't succeed,
Dickhead's Long-Term Impact
01:57:10
Speaker
That's it, you never would have heard Kevin Smith again, but it did succeed because, well, he made an amazing film. And I'm not saying we're that at all, because that's not up to us to decide, that's up to our audience, to a audience to decide for us. But certainly, you know, there's a lot of agony
01:57:38
Speaker
that we went through and that we're trying to turn into something worth people's time. Oh, the agony, yes. Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, because it's tough. I mean, I'm stressed. I got white hairs from this shit. I got a lot of debt from this shit. I mean, this has completely shaped my life.
01:58:04
Speaker
And sometimes that's a hard thing to accept is how much it shaped my life because then I'm always like, God, this film is called Dickhead. I made a film called Dickhead that shaped my life. And I think there's a lot within that statement, but
01:58:28
Speaker
I think that's part of the beauty. Yeah, I do think that's part of the beauty. And I think that's where this film can shine is that we're not taking advantage of anyone. We're trying to just make a film that people are going to like.
01:58:45
Speaker
And if you like it and you watch it enough times, oh, maybe you might see these other little nuggets we'd thrown in there. Kind of like Starship Troopers, right? First time I saw Starship Troopers, I was just like, dude, this action film is fucking awesome. And then eventually I was like, oh, wait a second. This film is way deeper than that superficial action. There's actually like a statement on fascism and, wait, are we the Nazis? You know, are we the bad guys?
01:59:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah, there's a lot to break down with Starship Troopers, but yeah, yeah, there's that element and and and with this film. Yeah, I mean, we just well, it's nothing like that, but I don't I forgot my point. Fuck. Well, what I want to say is and what I think about. And this brings me back to like when we watch our contemporaries
01:59:44
Speaker
And I mean, I will say this is a good aspect about the great and terrible day of the Lord done by Jared, Jared, Clark, Mason, and Clark Runciman, good friends of ours. And it's like, they had a lot of good
02:00:05
Speaker
of like setting up these little pieces to give you like a little nugget, um, as you go, but it didn't ever feel like the payoff was there. Hmm.
02:00:29
Speaker
Because even at the end of the movie, when you, when everything is kind of spelled out as to what was
Exploration of Film Themes and Morality
02:00:38
Speaker
really going on, it's kind of like, there's probably an easier way to do this. There probably is, but no, I don't. And I don't. And when I don't meet what I mean by easier way to do this is like, dude, God is an asshole.
02:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, God, I mean, yeah, because they do show that. Yeah, God's kind of a dick, right? I mean, yeah, there's kids dying of cancer. Like, what the fuck, God? Yeah, right. And it's statement. And also, it's like, you know, and, you know, I will say that that's one thing I, man, like,
02:01:26
Speaker
And I don't know if it, I'm curious to see what some people say about it when we actually show it to other people. Well, I think that's where we parallel Starship Troopers, and maybe this is kind of to the point I tried to get at earlier. Yeah, go ahead. Is that when you see this movie, you can see it on the superficial level, and it's just a silly, hopefully comedic slasher film.
02:01:53
Speaker
But if you give it a little bit more attention, you'll see that there are deeper elements being discussed and touched upon. And also, not necessarily a criticism, which is where I come from within my work, where I don't necessarily want to criticize, but merely just shine a light on. For instance, with Kevin's character.
02:02:22
Speaker
you know, the morality of him and what he's doing and who he is. Is he good? Is he bad? I don't know. He's both, right? He's definitely both, but who is he ultimately? And, and you can decide, I mean, he's probably, he probably turned out to be the most complexed character just within his portrayal within the story, you know?
02:02:53
Speaker
So there are those deeper elements that we try to touch upon, like just the fact that, yeah, a lot of guys are assholes and they just want to get laid because we're guys, we know how we think. You know, there's a shittiness to us. And there's a predator-iness there and showcasing that, but also not necessarily criticizing it, but just simply,
02:03:21
Speaker
Observing it and yeah, I feel a lot of it is This is just how it is yeah, like this is just how life is sometimes and Like even with think yeah, go ahead. Sorry one thing that is So important to me about Richard's character Is that essentially if Nobody was murdered
02:03:50
Speaker
Nothing would happen. Yeah. Without like Tom being this instigate like he's this instigating force. He's this instigating catalyst into all of the into each character. Each character is like is like essentially like everything would just been fine. Like Jennifer would have went to the party. She would have fucked Kevin. Richard would have been extremely sad.
02:04:22
Speaker
And you know what? Like they would have met up the next day and they would have been friends. They would have laughed and joked and watched shitty movies and she would go and bang toasty next. And then she would go and bang whoever the heck she wanted. And she'd probably sleep with Ward at some point.
02:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, she'd finally break down and sleep with Ward. And then she would hit like some kind of rock bottom where she maybe overdosed on like, methamphetamines or something. I don't know. And then that's when Richard comes in for the rescue, right? To pick up all these broken pieces and glue them back together.
02:04:59
Speaker
And who knows, maybe they actually get married and she is like Jenny and Forrest Gump, but she's with the freaking loser. She's finally just kind of accepted that like, yeah, life maybe doesn't just get better than the guy that is obsessively in love with me.
02:05:18
Speaker
And to appreciate that, right? For Richard's point of view. And that could have been a movie and that could be a story of its own. Yeah. If everything went right. But the thing is, it's like, it's so messy. And I love that how messy it is. Literally, right? See the layers, man, the layers. And this is one thing about the film that, uh,
02:05:47
Speaker
is so fucking sweet. And it and this edit does a really good job of it. And so the movie is called Dickhead. And we know that Richard's character, his name is Richard Head, short for Dickhead. But also every like you mentioned that we've mentioned is everyone is a dickhead and nobody gets what they want. Yeah, literally.
02:06:17
Speaker
Every time someone gets close to getting what they want, it is violently ripped away from them. Yeah. It's a it's a tragedy. This is comedic tragedy that we've every single, every character, no one gets what they want. I mean, honestly, honestly, get Jennifer. Yeah.
02:06:43
Speaker
Richard literally saves or attempts to save Genesis for his life. And it isn't good enough because you know what? There was nothing that he could do that would make her love him. Yeah, there is nothing he can do, right? He it is the Forrest Gump Jenny like Jenny loves Forrest, but she doesn't she's not in love with Forrest.
02:07:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like he's too. He's like, he's all this work. She needs to work on himself. Like she doesn't need essentially like a boyfriend. That's also her child. Yeah. And that's what Richard would have been for Jennifer. Yeah.
02:07:29
Speaker
right? He's so emotionally damaged and fucked up and weird. And he needs a lot of therapy and self-love before you can, you know, like, because the thing is, is like, he's supposed to be with Callista. They're kind of a match made in heaven, which is so, which adds to the tragedy because she is so obviously into him.
02:07:55
Speaker
And she would definitely treat him how he wants to be treated. She's the one who would give him the love that he wants, but also needs. Yes. And that is like, it may be. But of course, Jennifer is the idealized version of that, right? She's hot, but she's damaged. She's a fantasy that he's built up in his head.
02:08:24
Speaker
And, but at the end of it is she's like, well, I'm not a fantasy girl. I'm a real person. And that's why he can't understand is that she's a real person who has her own needs and she's going through her own struggles. Has that like nerd, as that guy, as that man who
02:08:44
Speaker
the idea of the grand romantic gesture is so kind of like intoxicatingly, right? Like, it's like, well, I mean, the damsel in distress, man. If I just do X, Y and Z, she'll love me. Yeah, she'll see. Have you ever seen, have you ever had that thought? If I could just do RBX. Oh, yeah. Why would love me? Oh, yeah, I think every guy has.
02:09:14
Speaker
That's right. Unless they're Kevin. If I was just a, exactly. And that's why Kevin is so, it's so fucked up because he literally has to resort to like Bill Cosby being her because, and the other thing too is right. Any other night they fuck.
02:09:37
Speaker
Oh yeah. It's just like, hey, let's have a drink. Let's just have a good time. We're going to listen to some sexy Sade on the, on the stereo. We're going to do some slow dancing and then we're going to go to plow town, you know? Yep. And like, maybe he even forgets her, her name is or. Right. Like they just, they just move on, right? They probably just move on. Mm-hmm.
02:10:07
Speaker
It's just, man. Yeah, she's like the perfect girl for Kevin. Because she would bang him, and then when he says, like, I don't want a girlfriend, she'd be like, yeah, that's fine. I didn't want you as a boyfriend.
02:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, I just wanted to use you for some momentarily self pleasure. Yeah. Because I'm dealing with all this emotional baggage that I can't really deal with. Yeah. And Kevin would just be that guy that she goes to for a good time when she needs it and then says fuck off and he's completely fine with that. Yeah. Yeah. Because she doesn't really like and then because once she starts to open up emotionally to him,
02:10:47
Speaker
Then she's vulnerable to him. And she's vulnerable to him. He just takes advantage of that. Yeah, because that's what he's always done though. Yeah. And it's like, damn, dude, we're fucking smart. Like, goddamn. Like, goddamn, dude. Well, will anyone see that? I mean, I think, I mean, that's good.
02:11:10
Speaker
Does anyone see that? People figured out 2001. People figured out 2001. They can figure out Dickhead. Dickhead. That's what I love about Dickhead is also everyone kind of has a representation. Oh, yeah. These archetypes of people. Everyone is kind of in there, right?
02:11:37
Speaker
You got the garage. The garage is like a beautiful, like a breakup of the story. Oh, yes. Send me the garage. So. Up until the garage, you have this straight up story. It's a pseudo.
02:12:01
Speaker
It's not even a love triangle. I don't even know what it is, right? Lexi is in love with Kevin. Kevin wants to fuck Jennifer. Richard is in love with Jennifer. Kalista is in love with Richard, but we don't know why she has this infatuation with Richard. She just does. And it's because it's really important that she does, but
02:12:26
Speaker
The sad thing is, and this doesn't ever made it in the movie, is that Jennifer also has this kind of infatuation with Toasty, who has an infatuation with Kevin. Yeah, who said love actually with Kevin and wants to beg him. And he's like, come on, bro. It's not even like a love triangle. It's like, I don't even know. I love Hexagon. I love Decahedron. You know, like Jesus Christ, everyone is like kind of trying to fuck everybody else. And everyone has a connection to Tom.
02:12:58
Speaker
Through Karen, which Karen is the object he's trying to replace and Karen with her within her own self. She's just this like Jennifer just this damage are this woman who's going through a lot and just kind of wants to
02:13:18
Speaker
just needs to get through it, right? Cause she's dealing with Tom and it's like, fuck man, this guy like shit, my brother, but he's my brother. So I got to take care of him. There's the obligation of family and just going through those struggles of, of just trying to get through the day. Yeah. And it's like, you know,
02:13:43
Speaker
That's one thing too is like the whole movie pretty much takes place in like 24 hours or like 48 hours. Yeah, yeah, literally probably 48 really 24 hours. Really? But yeah, with Karen 48 hours or 36 hours, maybe 24 hours. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, like literally a very short time span, right? Like in 24 hours between so, you know, on the October 30th that night,
02:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's October 30th until October 31st. Yeah, it's 24 hours. Yeah. And it's like, literally in one day, every single one of these people's lives is destroyed. Just because they all make the wrong plans. It's like a new glance, man. But it's like, it's like a nuke of bad, of bad choices. Like everyone just. Everyone is just doing the wrong thing. It's so beautiful, in a sense.
02:14:43
Speaker
doing the wrong things to fix themselves, to fix the problems, to fill the hole in their heart. Everyone's trying to fill that void. And it's like,
02:14:58
Speaker
This isn't how you do it. Like you don't do it with, you know, you don't do it by murdering people. That's not a good place to start. You don't do it with drugs. You don't do it with alcohol. You don't do it with obsession, fantasy. Yeah, exactly. You just kind of have to see the world as it is and be grateful for that. And if they were all just grateful for what they had,
02:15:26
Speaker
They never would have these issues, right? Like if Jennifer was just grateful for having her dad who's a hero and died a hero and not sought out all these other men, she wouldn't be punished for being
02:15:49
Speaker
sexually active for being a person. You know, the interesting thing too is Jennifer only ever gets punished when she puts her trust in someone other than herself. Exactly. And that's a big tragedy for Jennifer. It's like, if only you believe in yourself. If only she didn't go to Kevin or to the party, she would have been okay.
02:16:18
Speaker
If only she held true to who she had built herself up as a defense mechanism for good reason, she would have been fine, you know, to just trust in herself, believe in herself. But instead of running, she stopped at one point. And that pit stop is what did her in. Unfairly, unfairly, tragically so.
02:16:46
Speaker
Yeah. You know, because if Kevin didn't do what he does to her, she'd be sober enough to be like, yeah, I'm just fucking out of here. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, I appreciate everything you've done, Kevin, but I'd like to borrow your phone so I can dial 911. I need to borrow that phone. I need to get out of here or I just need to hide in the closet.
02:17:12
Speaker
It's going to pass, and I'm going to be fine. You know, just believe in herself, rely on herself like she had always done. You know, and within this movie, Alex Garland, right, he did Men, where he showcased Men as kind of this predatory force. I mean, Men, we have our issues, right? That's not a surprise there.
02:17:40
Speaker
If only Jennifer held true to that skepticism apprehension, maybe not even that. Maybe not even that, but she had a chance. But because she believed in other people, she was punished for it. I don't know, maybe that's a bad message.
02:18:04
Speaker
I don't think in that respect, but that's the truth. You know, my thing is, is it's not a bad message because maybe it's a bit nihilistic in the sense that like most things just end terribly. So
02:18:28
Speaker
It's just the thing was, it's like, and it all comes back to the title, dickhead. Because in the end of the day, it's all about the fact that when we're, you know, not upfront with who we are and what the story is all about. I don't know. What am I talking about?
02:18:57
Speaker
Oh, that's right. So Dickhead writes all about the fact that we're our own biggest enemy. And that I mean, really, when you think about it, that's kind of a big thing in the movie, too, is
02:19:23
Speaker
is everyone's I mean, you might it's easy to say that like Tom is the villain. But really, I do think everyone is their own worst enemy in this film. Yes. And the problem is and they're faced with that.
02:19:43
Speaker
Yeah. Right. The reason why Lexi gets killed. Lexi gets killed because she cannot let Kevin go. Yeah. And because of that, she seeks him out and he's trying.
Complex Love Dynamics
02:19:59
Speaker
And he's no good for her too. And she knows it. Yeah. She says it. She says it. She knows it. In scene six, she's like,
02:20:10
Speaker
You know, he has his eye on you, right? Like he had his eye in the desert. Like he had his eye on me. Like he had his eye on Karen. Like he had his eye on X, Y, and Z. Countless women. And once Kevin gets what he wants, he's out of there. Yeah. Yet she holds on to that
02:20:38
Speaker
I don't know what it is. Like that's what I kind of love about Lexi's character is she shouldn't love Kevin, but she does. Yeah. And it just genuinely loves him. She genuinely loves him. It's kind of like, uh, the small town girl and the small town boy, right? Exactly.
02:21:01
Speaker
Like if she's a prom queen and he's a prom queen king king and they probably were prom queen and king at their high school and yeah, you know, they had this sweet high school first love romance like that's kind of what I have in my head and she's nothing's ever
02:21:21
Speaker
matched up. And if he can only get his shit together and she could only get her shit together, they would just be like the perfect little couple, small town couple.
02:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, literally. But you know what? They're 35-year-olds in community college. So they have dreams of the big city. That's actually a cool aspect too that we could talk about. It's almost like a satire, but in a sense, it's very true to reality that people just get stuck in community college. Oh, yeah.
02:22:03
Speaker
And yeah, that's me. And it's people that, well, I mean, at least you work there. I mean, people that, you know, there are literally people that are like in their late 30s that have been, they have 500 AA's at this point. Yeah. And it's like, you know, we know, like, and that the sweet thing about like Mr. Ward's class,
02:22:25
Speaker
is it has like a, there's like a mix of people. Cause we have like margarita in the background and we have a bunch, some other people in the background that are a little bit younger. Hopefully like Heather was pretty young when we did the movie. Like she's probably only 18 taking a photo class for the pre-req for her nursing degree or whatever the fuck she is. Cause that's like her lame costume is her nursing outfit showing she's like the studious. Yeah. Her and Richard both have lame costumes, right?
02:22:55
Speaker
Well, Richard's costume is a reflection. I'm a mechanic. But everyone is wearing a mechanics outfit because, you know, they're it's a reflection of Michael Myers, right? Yeah. Not a reflection, but it's it's symbolic of Michael Myers. Yeah. And symbolic of just like evil dudes wearing coveralls. I'd say all do. Yes, they all do. You see a man coming at you with coveralls. Run. Yeah, he's a killer.
02:23:25
Speaker
But I mean, like, that's what's so cool. Like, I don't know, man, like I like talking about it because there there was a lot of thought put into it. And there was a lot of thought put into the edit. And there's an equally deep amount of thought putting to trying to just make all of this show on the screen. Yeah.
02:23:52
Speaker
I know it's a big thing for you and it's, I mean, it's a big aspect I think of just strong storytelling is if you let someone discover something over just flat out telling them, there's just, there's like a little bit more connection there. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like right, right. We're doing all this telling right now, like on the podcast.
02:24:18
Speaker
Like if someone like watched the movie and then they listen to this, like maybe they would be like, they could come back to the film with a different perspective. But it's like, to me, it's all there. Like all of this is in the footage that is gonna be on the screen. It's just, do you want to make those, like, are you going to invest yourself into this shitty amateur film?
02:24:47
Speaker
I mean, I don't even know if it's that shitty. I mean, just if the audio comes out okay, we're okay. If the audio comes out okay, we're okay. We can have a shitty score. I mean, it would suck, but it is what it is. As long as the dialogue and the sound effects come out okay, we're okay.
02:25:15
Speaker
from what I've seen in the edit. Because really, all the music is doing right now is just underscoring the emotions that we're trying to put on screen. Yeah, definitely. And as long as we can get music that underscores the emotion that we're trying to deliver, we're fine. Yeah. I mean, it would be nice to have like some kind of like
02:25:43
Speaker
legendary score that you know,
02:25:47
Speaker
I mean, I think the cool thing, the thing is, is like when you make a movie in Halloween, like, unfortunately, we don't have too much that kind of sells. I mean, like all of it is that it's Halloween. Yeah, like there's a pumpkin. It's Halloween in California. So, you know, Halloween doesn't necessarily stand out so much out here, right? I mean, really, you only know it's Halloween because of the decorations.
02:26:18
Speaker
And we did get a lot of shots of decorations. But are they in the film? No. No. Because there's no place to put them. There isn't. There's nowhere to put those those insert shots of this is Halloween. This is Halloween. And because that it just adds that would just add too much fat. It doesn't need to be there.
02:26:49
Speaker
And we have the thing is, is like we have these like pretty rich character moments. And I like to say that we executed it in a way that hopefully
02:27:10
Speaker
comes across. And I don't know. The thing is too, it's like, man, it's so audience based. And that's what's so scary about being a filmmaker. It's so audience based. It's so audience based. Like to me, if someone's like,
02:27:27
Speaker
Kevin's a dog character. It's like Kevin isn't that dumb. Kevin's very smart. Kevin just wants to fuck. That's the scary part about Kevin. Kevin's very smart. And he is very good at fucking or at least getting to fuck. Kevin's very good at getting what he wants. Yeah. Like Lexi said, he gets what he wants.
02:27:54
Speaker
You think you might know him, you think you might figure it out. Like Richard, right? Richard's smarter than Kevin. I think if they did an IQ test, Richard would come out smarter, but Kevin knows how to get what he wants. He's just, he's, he's always, he's the winner. He's always going to win. He's going to beat you no matter what.
02:28:16
Speaker
And we kind of forced him to lose because if he did win, the movie was just end. Yeah. You just go to the mom's house and it's over. And the thing is, is too, is like, I'm so glad that we were able to edit it back to our original intention because Chris was so opposed to like having Kevin be this bad guy. But if Kevin isn't a bad guy,
02:28:45
Speaker
It just doesn't work. It doesn't make any sense because there is no moral reason to do what he did or what he's done.
02:29:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, you don't just date. You don't just give like date. You don't fucking sedate someone without their consent. Right. Probably even with someone's consent, you don't sedate someone. I don't know. Unless you're doing an operation like you don't just a date people. You don't just drug people without their consent. Like that's a hard no. Right. Yeah. That's a fucking hard no. Yeah.
02:29:29
Speaker
Because I remember it was just like, man, he was trying so hard to make this character into something else. But the problem is, if Kevin's a good guy, what's the point of their whole interaction? The thing is, if Kevin is a good guy,
02:29:53
Speaker
Jennifer comes to him and he takes care of her in a sense. And then he just right. And then it's where it's literally over. Right. Like, Oh, I'll take care of you. Everything's okay now.
02:30:07
Speaker
That at the end, for all credits, Tom never gets to her, you know, he never break down Kevin's door to find her in there. Kevin's just rubbing her head while she sleeps it off and then they wake up and they go to the police station in the morning. Yeah.
02:30:25
Speaker
End of story, right? But no, Kevin's afraid that he will somehow be implemented in this trucking. Yeah. So he's trying to kind of cover his ass. Yeah. All he cares about is himself. And he gets and that gets him killed. Yeah. Or what? I mean, he might not be dead. Who knows? They can too. The Dickening. Yeah.
02:30:52
Speaker
But I mean, talking about it, buddy, it makes me all that much more hopeful because I think it's easy for people that haven't seen it to miss a lot of this. And I think that's OK. I think that's a it's a good thing to an extent. It's a good thing to an extent because
02:31:19
Speaker
If people miss this, miss those elements, where does Dickhead end up? We need people to find the deeper elements so that they can appreciate it. I think, well, what I hope actually, it's not what I, well, I think that you give audience their due and or respect, they'll take care of you.
02:31:50
Speaker
in the sense that they're going to pick up on the cues and the clues that you're putting in and laying throughout the film. That's the hope. That's kind of like the dream. Because right, it's like.
02:32:09
Speaker
All these things that we talked about with Kevin and Kalista and Lexi and Jennifer and Richard and Tom and Karen and Lester. These beats and story aspects, to me, they're all pretty much clear as day.
02:32:36
Speaker
when you watch the movie because I'm so close, right? I've seen it a thousand times and I wrote it, we wrote it and we directed it and we've edited it to capitalize on these aspects because we're hoping it can be sold to the audience. And we are giving a large amount of respect to the audience in the fact that
02:33:07
Speaker
We aren't just spelling it out in a nonchalant way where it's like, oh, look at these bad guys. No, we don't do that. Like, yes, it's fairly obvious that Tom is a bad guy.
02:33:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yes, it is fairly obvious that Richard, something is wrong with Richard. It's fairly obvious that Kevin's not a good guy.
02:33:43
Speaker
It's fairly obvious that Kevin is not a good guy. It's fairly obvious that Mr. Ward is not a good guy, that Mr. Lester is not a good guy, that Lexi has some ulterior motives. And it is very obvious, and this was a long tangent, probably an hour and a half long tangent on getting back to why the garage scene is so cool. Oh, yes, please.
02:34:10
Speaker
We've been spending all this time with these characters and you're delving in deep, right? It's like, man, does Jennifer actually really like Kevin or was he just a close respite into her nightmare?
02:34:31
Speaker
Does everyone really hate Richard? What's going on with that? No one is nice to this guy. We've been dealing with these characters for this past 40 minutes to an hour. And then we enter this scene where we have four characters that have never been introduced.
02:34:49
Speaker
Never been talked about, really. In the script, though, they weren't introduced, OK? They were. All right. This was a little bit done. This was done a little bit smarter in the script than ends up in the actual film. Well, at least Tosti was introduced. Yeah. Not Bill House or. Wasn't it the twin sisters? Carol, no. Sherry. Sherry, what are their names?
02:35:20
Speaker
Cause side characters were named after the Simpsons. Yeah. All side characters are named after the Simpsons. Regardless, whatever, uh, I wanted her name. That's Mr. Ward. Mother. Oh yeah. Jennifer's mom was Jennifer's mom. Yeah. Cause Jennifer's dad was a bigger element, right? Her longing for her father's for her father.
02:35:53
Speaker
Oh, and this script that I have right here is, doesn't even have, they're just called toasty and other guy. Really? It's just as other guy. Yeah. Wow. Well, they got a name and it was mill house. That's his name, Ben's. And then I think the Audra and, and, uh,
02:36:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're Sherry and Terry. Sherry and Terry. Sherry and Terry, yes, from Simpsons. But what's cool about that scene is that whole scene is us essentially, one, making fun of ourselves.
02:36:46
Speaker
And to just making fun of horror movies in general, like kind of like poking at them. Yeah. Because. It's like every horror movie has that scene where the killer just goes crazy. But also.
02:37:05
Speaker
The garage is like it leads to one of the most intense scenes, I think in the whole film probably are like the first, maybe it's the second big payoff scene, but it's like one of the big payoff scenes in the movie is I think is Audra and her delivery and everything that happens there. And it was something else. And, um,
02:37:35
Speaker
It's kind of like.
02:37:39
Speaker
other than like because it's like oh tom yeah yeah he killed his sister ew gross but it's like no tom is a bad dude like yeah he's fucked up in case you weren't sure yeah no like this dude is he's a bad fucking dude like if jennifer gets in this dude's hands like bad this is bad right like there's no good outcome happening here
02:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, you got to keep Tom away from everyone, essentially. Yeah. Yes. And this is the scene that it sets
Character Struggles and Downfalls
02:38:15
Speaker
up just how bad Tom can be. Yeah. Like just in case, like, because I think the thing is with the opening. Is that the unfortunately, I think the opening just plays too fast still.
02:38:32
Speaker
Um, I don't think there's really anything we can do about it. What do you mean by too fast? I feel like, so we have this beautiful buildup.
02:38:48
Speaker
of Karen coming home. And it's like, you kind of get to see who she is, right? She like hides alcohol all around her house. She's hiding booze because she uses it. Everyone is self-med, like, that's the whole thing, right? Like all of us are just self-medicating.
02:39:09
Speaker
to try and get past our problems, because it's so hard to just deal with them directly. Karen's problem is that she has to take care of her brother all on her own. And it is not easy. He's kind of crazy. He's kind of he's special in the sense that he's 20 year old psychopath. I mean,
02:39:37
Speaker
I don't know, really honest to put it, he's not really portrayed in any other way. I mean, like, you could argue that he might be a little special ed or something. I don't know. Like, maybe that's not even how you use, maybe that's not even proper language to use special ed. I don't think people use that kind of language anymore. But something is really wrong with Tom.
02:40:06
Speaker
And Karen is the person that takes care of Tom. And so when things really hit the when shit really hits the fan, it hits it bad and it hits it hard. And something that's really cool too, that I've been thinking about and it is and it has to do with the 24 hour cycle of the film.
02:40:32
Speaker
And the fact that for most people, for a lot of us, our lives could so easily just be destroyed in one day. Oh, yeah. And it just takes the exact wrong type of thing to happen to just completely destroy our life.
02:40:58
Speaker
And that, you know, like, the thing is, you know, a lot of people would make a thriller about like criminals, like robbing banks or a jewel heist or, um, you know, drug dealers or crackheads or whatever. These are just normal people that
02:41:22
Speaker
When shit starts falling apart, none of them, none of their self coping mechanisms end up working for them. They all end up working against them. Jennifer uses sex and her sexual appeal to bury her more intrusive thoughts instead of dealing with them. Tom,
02:41:46
Speaker
Uh, he, you know, kills his sister, jerks off on her dead body. Probably fucks her. That goes fuck. Kevin, you know, like we keep talking about Kevin, but it's like, Kevin's an interesting guy. Like he's an interesting character. Well, you know, when you were talking about how Chris wanted to play him as a good one, that just made his character more complex. Right. And it kind of leaned harder into.
02:42:17
Speaker
how much of a dickhead Kevin is, right? Because when we wrote Kevin, he's an asshole. He's really not that redeemable. No, but with the way Chris wanted to play him, it's like, yeah, maybe you made him worse. Maybe you made him a worse person for having this conflict in him because
02:42:46
Speaker
his choices are amplified, right? The consequences of his choices become even more amplified through that. Yeah. And I love that kind of like his superficial nature is destroyed because
02:43:10
Speaker
his eyes, right? Like all he had, he never really got deeper than like, Oh, she was hot. Yeah. And so like, that's literally ripped from him. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
02:43:30
Speaker
And it's like all he ever used was his eyes, right? Like he never really addressed any of these other senses or like feeling or touch or, you know, he's just like, he's like, damn, baby, you good looking, you know, like. You want to, you want to see my bedroom? You want to see the stocking on my fan? I think we cut that out. That might be worth adding in as a joke.
02:43:59
Speaker
I don't even think it's worth, I don't even think it's a joke. I think it's a character defining kind of thing where. Oh, it's, it's a truth to him, but it's kind of funny, right? She just looks up at the fan and there's a stocking hanging from it. I think one thing is that the stocking on the fan, the thing that that could do too, is it can kind of sell Jennifer on like, Oh no. Don't trust him.
02:44:31
Speaker
But she does, and I think we can't have this- But she also knows who he is, though, too, right? Kevin really never got one over on Jennifer. No, but I kind of like the idea that she believes that she can change him and destroy him.
02:44:59
Speaker
Yeah, but that's more Lexi who believes she can change him. Jennifer is just like, I'm gonna play his own game. And he's never... I'm gonna play it better than him. Yeah, and he's never dealt with someone who's played his own game. That's where Jennifer has an edge. Well, Lexi also calls her out on that, too. Well, yeah, because she's like, fuck you. Fuck you, it works. You know?
02:45:25
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, damn, there's some beauty to that, man. There's a certain amount of envy and jealousy to that. Because Lexi's like, I used to be like you or I thought I could beat him. But he always wins. He gets what he wants.
02:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, because what he wants ain't that deep. But then Jennifer replies with like, well, that's all I want, too. Yeah. Right. Because that's beautiful, dude, because Lexi wanted it all. She wanted the life, the relationship, the love. And Jennifer is just like, no, I want a hard dick to ride. Yeah. That looks good. Yeah.
02:46:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's dude. This whiskey is, uh, it's telling you on a journey, telling me things. It's really, that's really nice, man. Well, that was always a beautiful dynamic between Jennifer and Kevin is that Kevin never really had Kevin thought he was playing chess, but Jennifer was like, I already won, dude. I'm going to get exactly what I want from you.
02:46:44
Speaker
And I'm good. And either you're going to like it or you're not, but hell, I'm getting what I want. Wow. That's so cool. And that's also why, you know, one of the elements of why Richard hates Jennifer, right? She's getting what she wants from who she wants and none of those people are him. This is why it breaks my heart a little bit too, also about, uh,
02:47:14
Speaker
Two things. We never got the Richard and Toasty scene. That's in the script. That'd have been nice. But I think it's also fine within the edit. Like, but I'm not missing it. No, but what I'm saying is, is like, it sells this layer. That is maybe this is the, can you tell us what happens between Richard and Toasty in that scene? Cause I, I forgot. So if I. Emery.
02:47:43
Speaker
Remembering this correctly. Let me look at the script real quick, everybody. I was going to say, let me look at the script really quick, everybody. Yeah, that's a great scene. But one second. You got all the time in the world, buddy. Don't worry. And bacon.
02:48:13
Speaker
Is that really we wrote that? Yeah. Oh, God. Poor Ben. Poor Ben. Maybe I thought we did write a scene where Richard was in the garage that we didn't know. Yeah, he's in the garage and he meets Toasty.
02:48:38
Speaker
Well, whatever. I can't find it. Richard supposed to meet Tosti. The thing is, Tosti goes in the garage and then Richard, when he's looking for Jennifer, he goes in the garage to see if she's in and there. The thing is, is like. The thing with this Tosti character is that he was kind of supposed to be the thing that like messed mess everything up. In his own way, yeah. In the sense that like. He was like.
02:49:08
Speaker
the hot guy's hot friend. Because Toasty, in a lot of ways, could be better than Kevin. He's a bit of the antithesis to Kevin, right?
02:49:24
Speaker
Yes, because he's like laid back, he does drugs, he's cool, like he probably plays guitar. But also he's genuine. He's Eddie. Well, yeah, so he's genuine, right? Yeah. Like Tosti's a genuine guy. If he's saying he likes you, it's because he likes you. He's not saying that to put it on and get what he wants. Yeah, like the thing is I kind of liked it where Tosti kind of was in the Jennifer.
02:49:55
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, dude, don't treat her like she's just the same old bitch that like all the women that you've been with. Yeah. It's like, dude, this one's pretty damaged. Like. Yeah. Like be good to her. Like, don't. I mean, at least if you're going to have mercy on one person.
02:50:15
Speaker
Please, yeah. And the thing too is like, there's like, in my mind, there should be this confrontation scene where... I mean, Toasty within the original concept of the script, so everyone knows, Toasty was another good person. It was really Calista and Toasty who were the two, because we kind of portrayed all the men as bad.
02:50:38
Speaker
I wanted to have one that wasn't. So we have like one good woman and then one good man to just show this balance that like, yes, there are good people. It's not all just men are bad or whatever. There's good people in the world and Tosti and Kalista were those two people. It's just we didn't get to shoot the scenes with Tosti, unfortunately. Yeah, we got one day with Luca.
02:51:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We got one day and we thought we were going to get two days while actually Freeman said his car broke down and caught on fire or some crazy shit. Yeah. His car caught on fire. Yeah.
02:51:20
Speaker
Well, I mean, that car catching fire completely, like, well, I don't want to say completely fuck this, but it fucked us in the sense of developing those elements within the script that existed because we weren't able to shoot any of that. I'm still talking about why the garage scene is so cool. And the reason the garage scene is so cool, other than the fact that
02:51:47
Speaker
It's essentially as a fourth wall breaking element. Yeah, when we wink at the audience. Is the garage scene is like that scene in a horror. It's like it's like scream. Yeah. It's like our scream moment where it's like Randy. It's like this is, you know, the rules to survive a scary movie. This is what you do. Don't say we'll be right back.
02:52:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. They never come back. You know, like Stu, he goes, I'll be right back. And then it's like, oh, oh, you said it. You said it. You don't fucking say that. Right. And like that's kind of like this was like our homage to that. And it's like.
02:52:36
Speaker
These stoners sitting in a garage, getting fucking stoned in the middle of a horror movie. It's just going to get them all killed. That really sounds like a very bad idea. Yeah. And the thing too is like they're talking about babe.
02:52:56
Speaker
Sorry, buddy. The most innocuous movie to ever... Babe has probably never been mentioned in any other horror movie ever. Well, A, one of my favorites. But, you know, we bring it in. We make it all work. Wait, so Garage Seed, explain.
02:53:23
Speaker
Oh, so the garage scene is cool because essentially it's the halfway point. Uh-huh. It's like the bridge between like the acts of the film. Yes, it is. Yeah. It's like an intermission almost, right? Yeah, a recap of what's going on in a sense. It's like, okay, so we have this guy.
02:53:47
Speaker
It's like, so you're telling me like killers that don't talk, you know, there's some kind of thinkers or something. And it's like, and then I'll just like, I don't know, they all suck. Like, what's the fucking point? Yeah. And then they're just getting high. And it's like, you know what, man, I'm glad I'm not in a scary movie, which I think we ended up cutting a lot of those lines. But
02:54:11
Speaker
Either way, essentially it's like that scene is like about people talking about what it would be like to be in a movie. And we shit on a lot of movies, but I think that ended up getting cut. And then we come back and like our killer just murders everyone in this garage. And then we set up possibly other than what happens later with Jennifer.
02:54:39
Speaker
is without a doubt the most insane, intense scene in the whole film. With Audra? With Audra. And I don't know if this is just... I go back and forth on like... Well, you made that scene very intense, buddy.
02:55:02
Speaker
Because well, the thing is, is I wanted because you're there to be that. Yes. But I also wanted there to be no doubt that Tom is not a there is nothing. No sympathy for him. There is sympathy for the devil. Right. Because well, the thing is, and because it makes what happens later that much more impactful. Because
02:55:33
Speaker
The thing is when you see what Tom does to Audra, and then you see what Richard does to Tom, you're like, yeah, fuck you, dude. The parallels. Like it almost, we're turning the audience into almost like sadists. How so? Because we're manipulating the audience in a sense that like,
02:56:04
Speaker
They probably would never would want to watch someone be tortured in the way that Tom gets tortured. But because of what he's done. You're like cheering it on in the sadistic way. You want the vindication and even though we make Tom like justice, even though he goes for a full R word.
02:56:29
Speaker
The fucker. God damn it, Max. Right? That was not necessarily the intention that Tom is special needs. Is that what happens? Is that something? Is he low intelligence? Is there a word? I don't think Tom was ever low intelligence. And the script.
02:56:57
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no. He was never... There was never a question on to whether he, you know, had trouble learning disabilities. I don't know how to put it. Tom in the script is a victim who then becomes the monster. Like some victims do, like pedophiles, right? They say a lot of pedophiles are...
02:57:24
Speaker
have been victims of pedophilia and it kind of perpetuates itself. I mean, that's kind of who Tom is. He's this victim of abuse and he becomes the abuser. Sadly. I mean, I mean, it's a tragedy really. I mean, like we wrap it up in this comedy shell, but really it's this tragedy where, where Jennifer could have had a different storyline and everyone else could have had a different story, but because
02:57:55
Speaker
Just, well, shit happens. And Tom is a victim and there's, there's a sympathy there, but then also at the end of it, how much sympathy can you have for someone who then becomes the abuser?
02:58:21
Speaker
What are the power? OK, so one thing I think that is really important about the garage, but I don't think I don't think that ever comes across. That never comes across in the film. You won't see that in the film because that's just backstory. That's never expanded upon. I don't even think that's expanded upon in the script originally, but that's that's just who Tom is. He's he's a victim who becomes the victimizer. Yeah.
Symbolism and Plot Progression
02:58:49
Speaker
And that's part of the power of the garage scene is the garage scene is like the exploitation capitalized. It's, it's so exploitative in the sense that like, but, and then it also, the violence perpetrated in the garage is later than kind of perpetrated again. Yeah.
02:59:19
Speaker
Like also, also I'll say within the script, we needed a higher victim count. Absolutely. I mean, we needed a higher, we needed a higher death count. So, you know, that's where that's slotted into. The garage originally was about, it had two purposes. One, we need to kill more people.
02:59:43
Speaker
Because people love seeing murder in a slasher film. If you're watching a slasher film, you're watching Michael Myers, you're watching Scream, Freddy Krueger, Jason, especially Jason. Do you want to see the murder? We needed a way to clear out the house. We needed a reason to get Richard out of the house.
03:00:08
Speaker
And the way to do it was everyone is just like, whoa, there's dead bodies here. This is kind of what I love about how ghetto it is. But it was like, yo, there's a bunch of dead people here. And instead of people being like, oh, no, let's call the police. I'm just like, get the fuck out of here. I've been smoking crack all night.
03:00:32
Speaker
Right? Like, they're all a bunch of Kevins, right? Like, everyone is just looking out for themselves. No one gives a shit that there's dead bodies, right? But can I set it up too? Yeah. Originally, one of the early editions of the script. No one ever leaves the house. Jennifer suffers the date rape. She's still sedated, but she comes too.
03:00:58
Speaker
and she comes to in the house and she awakes to a house where there's just a fucking massacre. Dead bodies fucking everywhere. Now, of course, we couldn't do that because practical reasons. So that was the original idea was it all happens within Kevin's house. Jennifer wakes up, Richard's the only survivor and he's there to save Jennifer.
03:01:27
Speaker
And then it all goes down within the house. Yeah. But then we decided to move it outside of the house, the final act. So we needed a motivating factor for everyone to then leave the party. And of course, once the garage massacre is discovered,
03:01:48
Speaker
It's like, I'm not fucking staying in this house with a bunch of dead bodies. I'm getting the fuck out, you know? And of course everyone fucking bounces. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that original idea is probably way better. I liked it. And you know what I, cause you know what it was based on? Do you know what it was based on?
03:02:19
Speaker
Final Fantasy 7. Oh, okay. When you first really encounter Sephiroth at Shinra Tower and you wake up to nothing but dead bodies. Right, and they're just like blood streaks down the hall. Yeah, it was just like, holy fuck, a massacre happened. How terrified that was, right? The aftermath, just encountering pure brutality.
03:02:46
Speaker
And that's what that party was, just them encountering, or Jennifer waking up and encountering pure brutality. Dickhead too. The dickening, we can do that. Right? Tom's daughter wakes up and everyone is just dead. Tom has murdered them all. Which is fucking scary, right? That's a fucking, that builds a lot, right? That builds a mythos of this murderer.
03:03:14
Speaker
It implants that in your head that, okay, this person is ferocious and we need to avoid this person at all costs. Because if we encounter them, we're going to end up like the blood streaks on the walls. Yeah.
Script Evolution and Impactful Ending
03:03:30
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. I mean, the problem is boy.
03:03:39
Speaker
logistically, it would have been hard as fuck to pull that off for us. Well, yeah, we would have had to have your house full of blood and guts for weeks and weeks. Because you had to live in that house until we shot it. So it would have had to stay bloody for continuity's sake.
03:04:07
Speaker
And that's kind of hard to do. That's a little hard to do when it's talking about everyday life. Like, oh yeah, kids go to school. I'm going to get my in and out, come home while there's blood and guts on the walls. But that was the original idea for the script was that it takes place at Kevin's house and the massacre happens off screen and you wake up to it.
03:04:32
Speaker
And then they're in this house where all the lights are cut off and everything. It's dark. And Richard comes to save Jennifer. And, you know, I don't even remember how the script goes from there. I'm sure we have earlier, uh, edits or additions, additions, additions, additions, earlier edits of the script where that's how it plays out. But.
03:05:01
Speaker
Tom wanted the change and I think that changed a lot of it actually because he wanted it to take place at Tom's house, like kind of go back full circle. But originally we always had the ending in mind. I mean, that was one of the first elements of the story that we knew we wanted was the ending and for everything to kind of get flipped on its head.
03:05:30
Speaker
And we went with that. I just don't quite remember how that played out. I remember there's an original script, Richard, like Jennifer's hiding in the closet, I think. And then Richard goes into the room hiding. And then he meets Jennifer as a savior. And then they're just trying to escape the house. And then, of course, Tom finds them. But that was an original idea.
03:05:59
Speaker
Oh, I can talk to this a bit, buddy. So the original idea, and it kind of holds true still to this day, the original idea was a dream that I had about essentially being at a house party at Steven's house.
03:06:23
Speaker
I may or may not have had house parties. To wake up and find everyone dead and that the killer and the ultimate act of sadistic pleasure forces you to kill the love of your life.
03:06:46
Speaker
And the resulting act of going through that makes you worse than the killer himself. Makes that act of being pushed to the limit where you would murder the person you love the most in the world, makes you into the monster worse than the monster.
03:07:12
Speaker
And that was always the original intention. And that's why the film wraps in the way it does. Because essentially the dickhead becomes the monster that the monster fears. Because to be, the thing is, I don't want to get into anything too personal.
03:07:41
Speaker
Uh-oh. There are both dead bodies in my backyard, I promise. No one has ever been murdered at my house. No murders, but... Traveler. Traveling all over the place. I know, it's like...
03:08:09
Speaker
This is where a dickhead gets kind of personal. In a sense, in a sense that you haven't killed anyone, have you, buddy? No, never killed anyone. Not yet. Or ever. But. You know.
Twisted Love and Flaws
03:08:27
Speaker
Love. And this is something that I've always kind of tried to hold true throughout the whole project is
03:08:35
Speaker
is that love would make you do crazy things. It'll make you do things that you never thought you could ever possibly do. And that's always been kind of a central theme to the film, is that when love gets twisted or you have a false idea of what love is,
03:09:05
Speaker
you tend to do irrational stupid things. Yeah. And so, you know, like you have the womanizer, you have Kevin. He's like, essentially, Mr. More successful Mr. Ward.
03:09:27
Speaker
Especially in the sense... He's who Mr. Ward wishes he were. Exactly. Mr. Ward wishes he was Kevin because Kevin is just fucking... Or Mr. Ward was Kevin, right?
03:09:43
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Mr. Ward was Kevin, to put it more likely. And Mr. Ward is what Kevin becomes. And that's like, that's all like in the story, like, it's all kind of there, right? And, you know, a lot of this is just drawn from like, when you build up the idea of someone in your head, and then to be just let down,
03:10:11
Speaker
And while you build this fantasy in your head. And then you just see this fantasy crumble around you so violently. Because you see the real person.
03:10:29
Speaker
Yes. Because I mean, the core central of the story, and I love that we kind of had like, we've kind of underlined this accidentally. I think it was just like a accident. And like, like, what is it when you move like all the clips back? Essentially, what happened was like,
03:10:55
Speaker
There's a line that Richard has where he whispers to Tom, you know, like it's didn't you realize this is all been about me? And then somehow in the edit, it got messed up where that it's all about me got added in again. Oh, really? So that he goes.
03:11:18
Speaker
you know, it's been all about me. And then again, the line repeats, it's been all about me. And it's like, yeah, it's called Dickhead. Yeah. And the movie, you know, like all these horror movies are about the final girl. And it's about her escaping, you know, the big bad villain.
03:11:46
Speaker
But this movie is called dickhead. So it's about the two biggest assholes, the two biggest dickheads meet right in the dickhead battle royale.
03:12:01
Speaker
It's really the idea of an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. Yes. And what happens then? Yes, exactly. Which is where we turn it on its head, right? What happens when Michael Myers meets someone who's more vicious and terrible than him? What happens when Michael Myers meets Cthulhu? And it's because it's not like, and the thing is, it's not
03:12:30
Speaker
It's the power in my mind of why the story works the way it does is it's not that Richard is worse than Tom. It's that he loves Jennifer in such a sick and twisted way.
03:12:59
Speaker
the same way that Tom loves his sister in a sick and twisted way. And it's almost like a statement on ungenuine love. And the dangers of that. Because it's not about the person, it's about them.
03:13:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a narcissistic kind of love. It's selfish and cruel. Like Richard loves Jennifer because she was like the first person that kind of gave a shit about him. But that love became an obsession to him. Yeah. And
03:13:54
Speaker
Jennifer is also in her own way a dickhead because Oh, yeah, I know she kind of she knows she kind of cruelly lets it all happen Yeah, and we're and the whole thing is is we're trying Jennifer Jennifer is not oblivious to Richard's feelings Yes, she knows how he feels
03:14:18
Speaker
It's just that she treats her like how she wants to be treated. And she addresses that in the script, which is so nice. Yeah. That's what I think I really like. It's like. It's all there, right? Yeah, it's there. I mean, she literally is like, you call me your little marionette because you want
03:14:44
Speaker
You don't want me for me. You want this idea of me that's like a puppet to you. Yeah. You want to control every aspect of me because it would fit better into what you want me to be. You want what I really want into your narrative. Yes. That's like accepting me for a human being. Exactly. Right. She compares herself to a marionette, a puppet.
03:15:11
Speaker
And Richard's like, No, I don't. I love you. Don't you get it, baby? I'll give you everything you want. Yeah, but that's what that's what's so cool is Jennifer, like,
03:15:33
Speaker
Jennifer's character doesn't necessarily want or need anything from a man. No, not at all. She needs to learn how to kind of get over her own trauma. Yeah. And and that's kind of cool because like every time she does something for herself, she wins. Yeah, she well, she mirrors Kevin a lot, right? They both get what they want. Yeah.
03:16:03
Speaker
But it's unhealthy. And at the end, her fatal flaw, her fatal flaw comes out and it's that she trusts that she trusts in people. When she should just trust in herself. Herself. Exactly.
03:16:24
Speaker
Which again, is that a good message? It's, but it's a message. It's a message. This movie is like a PSA. Yeah. Like it's like, be careful. Yeah. Be careful. Be very careful. Cause. And not the thing is too, is it's like, we're not nihilistically trying to say.
03:16:53
Speaker
like avoid all of this, avoid these feelings. No. The thing that we're trying to say most of all is like. So the message of like the final message, the real big takeaway
03:17:16
Speaker
Because in a sense, it's like the true villain gets away. I mean, I know we spoiled the shit out of the movie, but it's like Tom is the actually he is the sole survivor of all of this. Everyone else dies. Everyone. That's so crazy, right?
03:17:40
Speaker
God, that is so beautiful. It's so disturbingly poetic. Man, I didn't ever really actually think about that. Well, I was going to say- You know, I was waiting for you to come back. Sorry. Well, I was going to say one of the things we're
03:18:06
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of flaws to these people, but I think also within the script, we're not trying to criticize it. We're just observing it. And then these are some of the negative outcomes to that. You know, I mean, in the universe where Richard and Jennifer realizes Richard's love, maybe that works out. Maybe that's the love that Jennifer needs.
03:18:36
Speaker
in the universe where Richard and Calista hooks up, that's probably the love that Richard needs. There's not necessarily a damnation to any of this. It's just, here's just some of the bad outcomes that happens with this kind of behavior and approach. You know, because really, how bad is Kevin? He just wants to fuck.
03:19:04
Speaker
You know, going back to Kevin again, he just wants to fuck. And that's not bad. I mean, sex isn't a bad thing. But if that's all you're after, that can have negative consequences, especially with how deep you're willing to go. And that reigns true for everyone. The negative consequences like Lexi with her
03:19:34
Speaker
undying love for Kevin, while the negative consequences of that. You know, it leads her, I mean, Lexi, she could have got to any other party in the entire area. You know, she could have been partying in LA, having a good time. But because she wants Kevin, and despite her knowing that he's not good,
03:20:02
Speaker
She doesn't care because that's what she wants. And she still goes for it. And it leads to her ruin. Just like so many other characters who have a deeper story within what we wrote. Right. Yeah. You know, I was just saying this on the when you when you left. I didn't leave. I was always here this whole time.
03:20:30
Speaker
But I mean, I was just saying this. It's so. I don't know what to say, funny, but it's like tragic and like the almost like the divine comedy. Are you not compared us to Dante?
03:20:52
Speaker
And it's that damn. Okay, buddy, please tell me. Well, this is a big spoiler. So I don't know. This whole podcast, we kind of spoiled the entire movie. But if you don't want to get extra spoiled, skip how many minutes away? I don't know. The next five hours. Ah, fuck it. Just take it. All right. If you listen to this, this blog you earned, earned the right to get spoiled.
03:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, well, whatever. So who gives a shit? It's a movie called the kid. The only person that survives the kid is Tom. Yeah. He's the only one who survives is Tom. And he doesn't die. He's the victim. Of a madman. And that's why I think it's there's like this beautiful symmetry
Tom's Transformation and Survivor's Tale
03:21:50
Speaker
He's using the big words now. So, Tom is the ultimate villain. Yeah. I mean, he's a victim. He literally starts as a victim and becomes a victim. Yeah. Because he becomes a victim of Richard. Yeah. Because he creates Richard. To an extent, yeah. To an extent, yeah.
03:22:19
Speaker
So it's kind of, it's, I mean, dude, like I, I must be fucking drunk and shit. Oh, I mean, definitely drunk. Yeah. I'm waiting for you to be like, you know, I see you and fuck you. No, never, buddy. It's fucking wild. I'm thinking of things like on, I'm like on another level. Like, yeah. So when you really think about it, Tom is a victim.
03:22:49
Speaker
Yeah. That becomes, he takes his own power by taking Karen's life and everything that Karen is. Yeah. Because really Karen, in most aspects, it's like this shining light, this like force of good. Yeah. Because she's making all the sacrifices to make sure that
03:23:17
Speaker
Everything is taken care of. That's not just about herself. She's like the most selfless character. Yeah, right. She doesn't just go and do whatever she wants. Yeah. And Tom completely destroys that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he he completely destroys that because. Of how corrupted and twisted he becomes.
03:23:48
Speaker
Yeah. Well, he's turned into and the fact that and we just keep showing how bad he is, how bad he is and how bad he is. And somehow it's so I'm just like, I kind of like hit this epiphany because Tom is the only survivor at the end of the movie, right? He's a fire girl.
03:24:15
Speaker
He's the final girl, like he's the final dickhead. Yeah. And in a way, because because Richard dies, he's the sole inheritor of the title. And we end on that. Yeah. Right. We do the freeze frame. And I love the freeze frame. I do. And it's fucking brilliant. I love it.
03:24:43
Speaker
It's literally brilliant. And I'm like, all this shit is like, it's crazy. It is, I know, I know I'm drunk. Yes, you are. But my IQ is elevated. Oh shit, you drink the good whiskey. I'm just amazed with how little you're moving. And I keep thinking your camera's frozen. No, but I know you're still there. I'm just like,
03:25:12
Speaker
I mean, every time I like when I actually like, well, lately when I sit down, I haven't watched the newest cut because we've done a lot since and I haven't. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I haven't seen that either. I haven't made a full render, so I haven't seen like everything how it plays out. Yeah. So like I said, I haven't I haven't watched the new cut, but
03:25:39
Speaker
Like I said, we're getting, we're getting pretty close to like, which is awesome. Surreal. I'm looking at that bottle of Chinese whiskey right now, buddy. It probably turned into poison by now. You got me. So yeah, that small little bottle, I think was like around a hundred dollars or something.
03:26:06
Speaker
Did he freeze again? Oh, no, he's still there. Sorry. He's alive. Jesus Christ, I drank almost this whole bottle of whiskey. Well, I drank two bottles, but they were already other last legs. Now I switched to white claws, so that's where I'm at. I'm almost done with it. So I think when I started this bottle was right. Oh, my God, Tom. It was right that much here.
03:26:36
Speaker
So I drank this much. He drank an entire bottle. Yeah. Twin Shadows podcast. Drink, do drugs, talk film. What I'm so grateful for and what I think is just like amazing is that
03:27:04
Speaker
even though we do fail to deliver sometimes. And it's just the aspect. Just the nature of where we're at, where we're at, what we're doing, the budget. Yes. And we still manage to like have all of these things in there.
03:27:33
Speaker
There is like, I don't think there's no, I don't think we have the right in the sense to just have everything that we do. Like when you really think about it. It's a movie called Dickhead.
03:28:01
Speaker
No, no, no, that's the coolest part. No, but that's my point. It's a movie called Dickhead. It's a movie called Dickhead. But that encapsulates everything. That's why it's such a good title. That's why we've never been able to settle because, you know, when we talk to the everyone else, we're like, well, Dickhead's a working title. But I know at least in the back of my mind, I was like, no, Dickhead's the title. Like it just encapsulates everything perfectly.
Dedication to Creative Vision and Editing Process
03:28:33
Speaker
And maybe there's no right to it. But that's where we are. And that's a good thing, man. That's why I feel so positive about all of this shit, you know? Is he frozen again? No, no, his head moved. He's still here. He's still here. I promised you I'm not frozen. I'm just... He's still here. It's just like, because like... But we really have no right to it.
03:29:00
Speaker
You know? And I think that's a beautiful thing, man. That's why, I don't know, man. I just... I feel... I mean, we have a podcast for this, you know? There's a specialness. You know, I was talking about the Chinese whiskey. Yeah. And about how, because you're like, oh, it's probably poisoned by now or whatever. Because like, to me... Well, that's just me being negative, but... I mean, I got that as a symbolic gesture. And we... You said...
03:29:28
Speaker
We're not going to drink that. Because it was like, hey, let me get this for you because we finished principal photography.
03:29:34
Speaker
But you're like, no, not until we're done with the film. Well, to me, to me, it's not until we're done with picture lock. Because that's where we're done in a sense. Not that we're done with the film, but it's like our efforts are actually doing the work. And we've worked so tirelessly
03:30:06
Speaker
Every time, the thing is, like you said, even when we don't meet up to work on it, we're still thinking about it. You think about it every day, I think about Dickhead every, every goddamn day. Every day, probably every hour. Every day of every hour, every minute, it's still there in the back of our minds, like, should we clean dishes? Yes, we have to.
03:30:32
Speaker
But man, we really need to start fucking working on this film. Okay, well, we can't work on the film. How are we gonna address this aspect? It just completely brainstorming, constantly, constantly, every moment dedicated to a film called Dickhead. In all its glory, but also in all of its woe, because there are so many shots, like you said, that are,
03:31:02
Speaker
So amateurish, you know, and there's so much distress and anxiety because it's like, fuck, this is garbage. Yeah. But we're trying to construct this garbage in such a way that it means something because this is our one shot. That's how I see it. This is our one shot.
03:31:24
Speaker
and treating it as such. Not even like it's our one shot, but it's like, fuck, if I could ever just say I did a movie and just put myself out there and be completely vulnerable and open to criticism, this is a sword we're gonna die on, dude.
03:31:47
Speaker
Well, the thing that is fucking crazy, like it is actually nuts to me. And I think this speaks highly of your genius, my friend. Too kind. When we were writing this. We kind of had this in mind. In a sense that.
03:32:15
Speaker
It's tough to say because I don't want to be like too, uh, I just put it out there, man, where we're, we're already almost four hours into an impromptu podcast where we just glow about our filth. Like, so seriously, when we, we sat down and we wrote this. We were just like, we're just going to make a fun movie.
03:32:39
Speaker
but and then put ourselves and everything we know kind of into it. And what I mean by everything we know, it's not everything we knew about film, everything we knew about storytelling, but just everything we knew about people and everything that we knew about just the rational, not the rationalization, but like you said, it's not that we're, we do not judge any of our characters.
03:33:10
Speaker
It's just, we decided that we are going to set up this, these characters in a sense that, you know what? You probably know a Kevin. You probably know a Mr. Ward. You probably, I mean, hopefully Tom. No, but also, you know, I love these characters. You know, even Tom, like,
03:33:40
Speaker
There's a certain amount of sympathy for him. Like, I love these characters and that's the hardest thing is what we do to these people. Because for me, they're people. Yeah, exactly. And that's why when we're, we capture this a couple of times of our actors breaking.
03:34:07
Speaker
And, um, by breaking, I just mean like the technical term of breaking where like they, uh, fall out of the scene and like, they're genuinely laughing or, um, not generally, they're generally laughing. They're like, actually, right. That's like,
03:34:27
Speaker
Marianne and Suzanne exchange a look and they have a smile. That is genuine. Between themselves, yeah. Yeah. As people not acting. Chris and Jennifer, Chris and Marianne have a scene where they're like laughing with each other and it's just genuine. Yeah.
03:34:48
Speaker
And it's like this is like what we wanted to capture the whole time. And that's one thing I love too is like when I was going back and kind of reading the script, I kind of went back and was reading the script because I haven't read it in a while.
03:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I was going back and just reading it and then I was thinking about like what we actually shot and I was like, we were actually like, like what we read, what was in the script is like what the lines were said. And sometimes it feels so improvised. Mm hmm.
03:35:24
Speaker
And I think that's a very high compliment to us. And I know this whole podcast has kind of been us just masturbating on each other for three hours and 43 minutes for right now. But that's us.
03:35:43
Speaker
Maybe it's just because we've been working on this for 10 years. And like I said, I pop up and I look at that. I don't know Chinese.
03:35:59
Speaker
And I just think like once we just get picture locked, you have no choice but to like drink that entire bottle and whatever happens happens. And like, I just think that there's like, there might be this absolute overwhelming sense of relief.
03:36:30
Speaker
And like, just as like, um, like, you know, like when you've had a burden, like, I want to say, I know I'm going to cry like a baby once. Like even just picture, just picture lock. I don't even really, like, I understand that like composing and that is going to be, that's going to be an entirely different set of.
03:36:53
Speaker
It's own beast. Beasting, right? Because then we're going to have to go back through all the audio and pull that out for the mixer to be like, well, here's every time that this person said what. Yeah. Do one of these what's fit better than this? What? Yeah. Does this what have a better noise floor? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And it's like, you know, like the, but, you know,
03:37:23
Speaker
on a like creative. Making sure the film is what it is. Picture lock is it? Yeah. Once the edit is finalized, once we actually finally say, OK, let's polish this fucker. Yeah.
03:37:46
Speaker
Right. Like once we're like, OK, this scene is that the length that needs to be this cut is the length that needs to be. Let's polish this coal and get to the diamond, right? I think Tom is dead. I'm thinking because it's like it's not even like let's polish this coal into a diamond. It's it's just like. But what I mean by that is you and I have taken it as far as we can take it. Which is terrifying.
03:38:17
Speaker
That's a scary thing. But we have to get there. You know, it's like Final Fantasy. You've always got to fight the behemoth, and you know he's going to kick your ass. He's going to wipe a few people out. You got to face it. No, no, no, yeah. To me, that's kind of the exciting part. I'm kind of ready for that.
03:38:41
Speaker
Well, we've talked about this before and, you know, we've always just said how hard that is to imagine. Hey, it is. Because it's just, it's been... It's been 10 years. Eight, well, what? Eight years? Eight years. Eight years, you know? It's, oh, I mean, it's been seven years in post.
03:39:08
Speaker
I mean, I think we started, it's been nine years if you want to count like when we started writing. Yeah, I do want to count that because, um, you know, when we wrote it, I mean, I remember going to Denny's and being up all night drinking coffee, working on the story and doing that as like a little reward to keep me going, you know, and just, I don't know how I did it.
03:39:35
Speaker
I don't know how we did it, but certainly, you know, going off of like four or five hours of sleep because spent literally the whole night working until the sunrise on the script. And then, and then finally getting to that point where we heard actors actually reciting the lines and putting faces to the characters.
03:40:06
Speaker
and feeling it fleshed out. I mean, when we were watching the film the last time, I was asking like, Tom, is that actually in the script? Did we write that? And you're like, yeah, bro, look, that's in the script. We wrote that. And feeling that joy of like, damn, that's a funny ass line that we came up with.
03:40:35
Speaker
Well, it's like, like I said, it's like with the, the symmetry, the rhythm, the reflections. These things may have not have been necessarily consciously thought of, but somehow we made it work into the movie. Like what? Yeah, with this current cut. Like what? Cause, cause you know, the first cut you did of the film was great.
03:41:07
Speaker
but it was so different from everything. We are at least everything I imagined. And then we saw the other edits from other editors and it was like, oh shit. But I always knew that, well, I saw what Tom did, so I have hope.
03:41:26
Speaker
And then to see where we've come with this current edit and to be like, oh shit, we're actually nailing the elements that we wanted to within the script. We're, we're bringing it back around. Thankfully. Yeah. It's so crazy. Like I can't, it's so hard to fathom and I know I've been making some big pauses, but it's like, I'm processing it. I'm looking at that Chinese whiskey.
03:41:55
Speaker
What's that Chinese whiskey mean? What does it mean to you, man? To me, what it means is. Not only have we been able to do it. We were able to do it well. And. While yes, I think compromise is an aspect of filmmaking,
03:42:24
Speaker
And like I know, like you said, and there's no way around it. There really isn't like there's just going to be some like shitty scenes in the movie. I don't know about shitty scenes. Well, certainly going to be some stuff where we're like, oh, there's, you know, we're going to take our beating. We're going to take our beating. There are some rough aspects, but but hopefully that's part of the charm.
03:42:49
Speaker
Oh, let's see what sound can do, you know, let's see what we could do. But like. The thing is, is like when I just hope that when someone watches the movie. They'll be able to take away something that. Is. I don't want to say magical, because that's fucking lame.
03:43:19
Speaker
Yeah. I don't want someone to take away something magical when they watch Dickhead. I want them to be like, Jesus Christ, maybe I needed to take another look at X, Y and Z. I don't know the Tom in my life, the Richard in my life, the Kevin in my life. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
03:43:42
Speaker
And it's more, it's like, okay, this is a, I, and the problem is we're going to get this a lot. The Halloween comparisons will never end when it comes to Dickhead. As they shouldn't. They shouldn't. And the thing is, is we're, uh, that's a heavy crutch. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a heavy crutch in the fact that
03:44:09
Speaker
We are kind of building on the backbone that there is like this Halloween fandom. Yeah. And hopefully that when those guys watch the movie and ladies, I'm sure there's quite a bit of Halloween ladies. I like Halloween. They'll watch the movie. They'll watch Dickhead and they'll be like.
Narrative Levels and Thematic Reflection
03:44:29
Speaker
Oh, haha. Oh, haha. And it's like, yeah. OK. We did this for you. Yeah.
03:44:39
Speaker
As long as someone kind of gets this podcast is the summation of everything I love about the film.
03:44:49
Speaker
I mean, I've talked about it and with this absolute joy for almost four hours now. Literally? Literally. Yeah, impromptu quick podcast. Four hours. Here we are. This is why when people, it's like, why is it not done? What takes it so hard? We're examining every little aspect. If Karen picks up a coffee cup,
03:45:18
Speaker
That says like, I did it for daddy. We're going to figure it out. Like why that's in there, like, right? Like, or, or we put it in there for a reason. Yeah. Like she doesn't have a coffee cup that says I did it for daddy. This is just a terrible example, but.
03:45:34
Speaker
Like right when she kicks the pot when she comes in the house, oh, you'll be the death of me. Oh, this will be, you know, like all of these things, like every little thing, every little thing, her talking, you know, everyone always talks about like, oh, Tom stares at me weird.
03:45:51
Speaker
Oh, Richard's going to burst an eye vessel vessel looking at me. Like when I bend over, I was like, well, if you weren't such a slut, then he wouldn't burst an eye vessel. And it's like, well, I need to be a slut so that Kevin will want to fuck me again. Cause if I'm a hot slut, Kevin will might like me. Yeah. You know, all of these things are like, it's like layers. There's like all these onions that are ready to be peeled. And also it's like.
03:46:18
Speaker
these losers have a party and everyone gets killed. I hope that's okay. Yeah. Let's say peel the onions, everyone's gonna cry.
03:46:32
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, like the whole thing, like you said, we've been trying to strike this balance, right? Of this deeply layered, intricate, character-driven story that if you completely miss all of that, it will still work. Yes. And that's one of the best parts about the film, I think. And, you know, going back to the parallel of Starship Troopers or the allusion to Starship Troopers,
03:47:03
Speaker
You can watch it without going any deeper and hopefully enjoy it. And then if you want to watch it more deeply, there's a reward for that too. Yeah. I don't know, man. You know, I'll say. I'll say that. And it'll be so interesting when we're post all of this and we're just reflecting back.
03:47:32
Speaker
That's going to be the most interesting part for me. Because right now I feel like it's so, it's in a special place. And I really feel like it's in a special place. And regardless of the reception, I'm going to be happy with this film because we got it to where
03:48:00
Speaker
it could like the maximum of where it could go. Yes. And that is so cool. We delivered so much on where it could go and accomplished it. And we're hitting that mark so that if people don't like it or don't get it, I'm okay with that.
03:48:28
Speaker
But then there's the fact that if people do like it, I just feel like we're coming to the conclusion of it for ourselves. And that means a lot because, you know, there's like George Lucas who's still editing Star Wars and Coppola who has a million edits of,
03:48:53
Speaker
Godfather and... Not Godfather. Apocalypse now. Apocalypse now. And there's so many edits of Blade Runner.
03:49:01
Speaker
But we're getting to that finish line for what Deckhead is. And regardless of how it's received, I'll be like, it's fucking done, dude. It's fucking done. We got it to what it can be. There's nothing more that could be extrapolated from anything there. Maybe someone else could come down the line and do better, but... I doubt it. Well, I was gonna say, but it's not gonna be much better. It's gonna be just...
03:49:30
Speaker
You know, it's not even going to be percentage points. It's going to be like decimal points better. You know, it's going to be a hundredth from a percent. Yeah. It's going to be these small percentages that maybe someone could do better, but we're achieving this.
03:49:50
Speaker
from nothing, you know, because we're nobodies. We're nobodies who grew up from nothing, who just dreamt of something bigger and wanted to accomplish something. And it was like, from the start of this film, it was like, when I got on board with this, it's because of you, because it was like, well, Tom's a filmmaker, so let's make a fucking film. Yeah.
03:50:17
Speaker
and trying to accomplish that to the 10th degree. Because even if we never do this again, at least for myself, I can rest on the fact that, yeah, I fucking tried. If this isn't good enough, if this isn't good enough, then I don't know. But at least with this, I tried and I think we succeeded.
03:50:47
Speaker
And what could be drawn from, from what we, what we have, what we've done, what we have and what we accomplished. You know, it's a finished piece of work and like it or not, it is what it is. Well, and what I want to say is too, and that's beautifully said buddy, really it is. And what I want to say.
03:51:15
Speaker
Let me have, let me finish my little drink here. Okay. While you finish that, I'm going to tinkle for five seconds. Okay. Uh, Chinese whiskey. I wonder what it tastes like. All I know is once we finally picture luck, Steve and I are going to drink that entire bottle.
03:51:46
Speaker
I don't care if we black out, if we vomit, we shit ourselves for drinking that bottle of Chinese whiskey. And now that you're back, I want to say that the thing is, I think I give in very easily on hopes and dreams.
03:52:16
Speaker
There's a reason I don't play the lotto.
03:52:21
Speaker
And it's because every time I play the lotto, I believe I'm going to be the winner. And it's like, it's so disappointing when you play it and you know, like, you know, you're not going to win, right? It's like, it's a very depressing thing. But somehow within me, I don't know what it is. Like that hope has never been snuffed out. Like that hope for greater things for the grandeur. And yes, I acknowledge that it took a
03:52:50
Speaker
a long fucking time. But you know what? I have also come to a place where I don't care what the audience says. I don't care. Yeah, definitely. I don't care if they don't get it. I don't care if they think it's stupid or dumb or bad or whatever. The thing is,
03:53:21
Speaker
I know without a doubt. I mean, literally it is like we just talked for four hours longer than the actual movie. Like double, triple almost the runtime of the film. I know without a doubt what is in the film. And if, you know, you have some guy watch it and they're like,
03:53:50
Speaker
Well, these characters are one dimensional, blah, blah, blah. Like I know that guy is full of shit and or fucking stupider than dog shit. Yeah. And I can rest easily knowing that that's the case.
03:54:07
Speaker
because we have quite literally exhausted every possible resource, every, I mean, every little aspect of the film. Aside from reshooting it. Yeah, aside, I mean, and even then, like, a lot of the stuff that we reshot has never made it in.
03:54:36
Speaker
Yeah. I think for one, I think we re-shot like at least 40 shots or 40 takes, something like that. There's a lot of reshoots that we did and we may be using two or three of them. Yeah. In the whole film. And it's just because
03:55:07
Speaker
The reshoots, while I do believe that they can be necessary, and I think it's a good thing if you have, you know, the time and the effort to go and do it. The thing was is we never got to, we,
03:55:32
Speaker
We needed to get to where we are now to understand what we actually needed to reshoot. Yeah. It was kind of like we only had like a hint of what we needed to reshoot.
03:55:48
Speaker
When in reality it was like, no, uh, actually really we only needed to reshoot like two things other than audio, like, uh, ADR, like which I would have, which we probably could have really used bringing in the people back in to do their lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:56:09
Speaker
I mean, we, we were probably going to have to suffer with a less than perfect audio, but I mean, like, I mean, I'm talking like actual, like literal, like, Hey, let's come back. Let's bring people back in and reshoot. Uh, if we could have just fixed that jump scare a little bit better and set that up a little bit better and maybe, uh, done a few more scenes with Marianne walking into the school. Yeah.
03:56:40
Speaker
I'd be happy. All the other reshoots were kind of necessary. I mean, one reshoot was worth it, only to see if it would work. And that was Suzanne having her moment in Kevin's room.
03:57:06
Speaker
And I think, uh, you know, people always say like less is more. You kind of want to say like, yeah, fuck you. Like no one really actually thinks that, but it's kind of true. We're like less is more, right? Like if we like ever see the Boba fetch show. No, no one did.
03:57:30
Speaker
You know what's cool about Boba Fett? He's got like eight minutes. He's got like eight minutes of runtime in the entire Star Wars saga outside of his TV show. And that's probably being generous. It's probably more like four minutes. And it's like Boba Fett's also like the one character everyone knows. Right. And he's got four minutes of screen time, maybe less, maybe more. I don't actually know how much Boba Fett actually has in the original trilogy.
03:57:59
Speaker
I feel like it's pretty low. Well, it's extremely low. It's probably like five minutes, honestly. It's like literally Darth Vader giving his speech, right, about capturing them. And then Return of the Jedi. Boba Fett. OK, I actually just googled this. He was. So Boba Fett has six and a half minutes of screen time across the entire original trilogy.
03:58:29
Speaker
That was close. Six and a half minutes across three movies. Now, to be fair, he's not in A New Hope, but in Empire and Return of the Jedi. This motherfucker's got six and a half minutes.
03:58:49
Speaker
And who doesn't know Boba Fett, man? Yeah. That's one of the most iconic characters of Star Wars, dude. But there's like this sweet balance, right? Yeah. And you got to be careful. Because you didn't need more of him, right? And then you see what's happened with more of that. Yeah, and it's gross. Well, I haven't even watched it. I don't know how bad it is.
03:59:18
Speaker
Well, no one's talking about it and I haven't heard a second season, so. Well, even Mandalorian, that show is all over the place. I mean, that's essentially Boba Fett, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, until they literally brought back Boba Fett.
03:59:42
Speaker
And they're like, don't you remember this guy? Oh yeah, remember the guy that had six minutes of screen time? Like that's so crazy, right? Like we think about like Freddy Krueger and we always think about, you know, we talk about Michael Myers. I bet Michael Myers in the original Halloween is probably only on screen for
04:00:09
Speaker
10 minutes. I was going to say 20. I was going to say probably 20. Like, I mean, do you count him as a kid? No, but I'm sure they would. Nine minutes and 37 seconds. Wow. There you go. And the original Halloween. Is that counting him as a kid?
04:00:33
Speaker
It doesn't set the shape. The shape appears on screen for nine minutes and 37 seconds. Well, there you go. So, I mean, that's kind of crazy. Like that's what I'm thinking about the whole less is more thing.
04:00:53
Speaker
because I think in today's world, so I watched the Abigail movie and I watched it. So like, it's like, it's loosely based on an Agatha Christie story, which I actually listened to the audio book, which is weird because the audio book is read by Dan Stevens, who was in the movie.
04:01:18
Speaker
Oh, has a plot about the book that he narrates, which is like kind of. Like, whoa. But it's about a bunch of like criminals that kidnap a vampire. OK. I think you would hate it. It's probably a five out of 10.
04:01:41
Speaker
Yeah. Not probably. It is a five out of 10. Um, but I also watched that love wise bleeding. You said you hated that, but I kind of like it. I kind of dug it. Hey, for everyone. I mean, I like lesbians. What can I say? They're kind of my thing. I love being good lesbians.
04:02:06
Speaker
I'm kind of jealous of lesbians because they can just keep kind of like fucking for forever. Like lesbians agree when it's over, when like sex is over. Yeah. It's like, are you tired? Yeah, I'm tired. Are you tired? Yeah, I'm tired. Okay. Okay. We could stop. So that doesn't normally happen to you. No, I like generally like men. That's like, we like bust a nut and it's like,
04:02:37
Speaker
Well, you know, I hope you had a good time. My service here has ended. My nut has been busted and I do not fear to be ready to go for at least 10 to 20 minutes. And that's if everything is working very well. It's probably more like four to eight hours.
04:03:03
Speaker
on the standard, you know, like, yeah, just gonna go like, you know, round two, I mean, maybe like Usain Bolt can do that kind of shit. I don't got that level of stamina, you know, like I pop and I'm kind of done for the day. Okay.
04:03:23
Speaker
But, you know, I was just saying, you know, lesbians, they just keep going at it. It's like, oh, you guys are buddies, man. You had 57 orgasms today. Yeah. What a big deal. Right. There's no like filleted dick to like, kind of like call a stop sign. So you just keep going. I don't know. That's pretty cool. You know, I never saw it from that perspective.
04:03:48
Speaker
Uh, yeah, that's pretty cool. Uh, but in the movie that loves lies bleeding, I wrote what I thought was a pretty good review. Oh, we're going to get into your review at four and a hours and 12 minutes, huh? Yeah. Lay it on me, daddy. So Jesus. Let me find the review I wrote.
04:04:19
Speaker
Shit's hard, man. It's hard to figure out technology. Everything leaks to everything else. Yeah. Plus I also post, I've been posting a lot in the low budget filmmaking thing. Oh man. Miss 45 years in that movie. I've never even heard of that movie. It's great little flick. It's about a girl that gets, uh, fortunately she gets raped.
04:04:49
Speaker
as women do, unfortunately. Yeah. And then she starts just taking out her revenge. She starts taking out her revenge on people. Yeah. I can't even find my review. No one liked it. I guess it wasn't very good. No one agreed with me. So it's kind of like a podcast.
04:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, who cares? There are four hours in. OK, so Love Lies Bleeding. I will say I watched that movie a couple of days ago. Yeah. And it stars Kristen Stewart and this chick named Katie O'Brien, who's like this bodybuilder lady and Ed Harris from like you might recognize Ed Harris.
04:05:38
Speaker
Yeah. From such films as. Everyone looks so gross in that film. The Rock. Yes. Everyone is kind of ugly. Everyone is so gross. Which I kind of love. So that film, I remember what I wrote and it was if Panos Cosmodos, the guy that directed Mandy, Quentin Tarantino had a baby and they threw it in the blender and then whatever it was left over, they filmed.
04:06:08
Speaker
That's what Love Lies Bleeding is. I wanted to do a podcast almost about this topic all on itself. Well, we still got to do A Night With The Devil? Late Night With The Devil? Yes, we got to talk about that. Because I think there's a lot to discuss about that. Because you wrote that up and I actually watched the film.
04:06:34
Speaker
Because a lot of people were like, that movie kind of tanked because- No, it was really successful, wasn't it? Like, considering? No, the people that actually were going to go and watch it hated the fact that they had AI images. So it tanked and so they just rushed it out to streaming. Oh, no shit. And then people have been watching it on streaming and they're like, oh, it's actually pretty good.
04:07:02
Speaker
And then it came out that the guy that was paid to do the graphics for the movie used the AI because he thought it was cool. He was like, I thought it was good. And it like tanked the movie. And it was like they didn't actually like an artist didn't lose his job because of the AI images. He was paid for it. And he just wanted to try a few images out.
04:07:32
Speaker
But it's also like, you know, people are so upset about AI taking over art. And I thought it was the funniest thing. This is the funniest thing, right? It's like...
04:07:42
Speaker
AI, an AI art image when like a contest against human artists and the human artists are like, like, that's so bullshit. Like the AI beat us. And I'm like, maybe you guys just like you suck more than the AI art. I did. No one ever think of that. That's fair. Yeah. Like AI sets the standard.
04:08:10
Speaker
I think a lot of people, I think that's kind of what's missing. I know we just did a four hour podcast talking about how great we are. But when the AI is doing better than you,
04:08:29
Speaker
You know, it's probably not like, you know, you should probably start applying for jobs at Costco or something. Like, you're fucked. Like, right. Like, I get it. You know, the A.I. gets to train and do like all kind of image generation or whatever. It's a shit piece your ass.
04:08:53
Speaker
You probably just suck. Like that's kind of like going to become the new normal in a weird way. Oh yeah. It's like you got to be better than the AI or the AI is just going to take your job. And then the AI is going to copy your better image. It's weird. It's real weird. It's rough. It's, it's rough, but well, we're going to have, we'll talk about it, but there's that kind of like a whole episode, I think kind of.
04:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's a whole nother episode. Oh, but oh, the other thing I want to this would also fold into that episode. And this talks about love flies bleeding because. That movie was seriously like Mandy meets once upon a time in Hollywood, like smashed together like a nasty pancake of like man made. Interesting.
04:09:49
Speaker
And I think that like maybe we're at an age in our lives and in the fact that we've seen so many films to like combined. Yeah. That we notice
04:10:07
Speaker
the rip offs so much clearer than we do in older films because those films are ripping off older films that we've been never even heard of or seen. Right? Like Howard Hawks and like bringing up baby, like that dude's probably like ripping off stuff we'd never even heard of. Like he's like, uh, like Ansel Adams pictures, like up in his garage, like that he's jerking off to. And he's like, look at those clouds, man. You know, like Howard Hawks.
04:10:37
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like maybe that's like kind of how it feels like to be a modern filmmaker today where it's like you're just ripping off Tarantino and Panos Cosmodos, the guy that made Mandy, like you're literally just it's just it's just a ripoff. Lovelace Bleeding is just literally it is just a ripoff of those like that that style of movie. Yeah.
04:11:06
Speaker
with sexy lesbians. Yeah.
04:11:13
Speaker
And it's like, you, did no one catch this? Was no one like, this is like exactly like that scene in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where he's feeding his dog and like, that's how he like, like no one, no one caught that. Okay, cool. We're just going to roll with it. You know, like at least I can honestly feed it his dog.
04:11:39
Speaker
So she feeds her cat and sends the dog. So it is literally almost like shot for shot where she's just like shaking the can so that the food falls in the bowl.
04:11:53
Speaker
Oh, OK. Brad Pitt does. And once upon a time in Hollywood, when he comes home, he like shakes thing in there. He's like, yeah. And then it once upon a time in Hollywood, they smash that chick's face into the table until like her jaw breaks. Oh, that's in Love Lies Bleeding. That's in Love Lies Bleeding. They smash someone dude's face into a table until his jaw breaks. And I'm like, I've seen this before.
04:12:23
Speaker
And I was like, holy shit. This is what like all movies are. It's like the more movies you see, the better understanding you have with the ripoffs. Yeah. But also like the better appreciation you have for like parasite.
04:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Because Parasite, I mean, I can't detect anything unoriginal in that movie. Parasite's great, man. Like when you watch Parasite, I genuinely would be curious to talk to someone that thinks Parasite is a bad movie.
04:13:04
Speaker
Just because I've never talked to someone that's so stupid in my life. Like maybe it might be interesting. Yeah. Like I'd be willing to take that risk that like talking to someone so dumb would probably make me dumber and just trying to talk to that dumb person. But at the same time, dude, it's like. Have you seen Parasite? Yeah, it's there, man. It's all there.
04:13:36
Speaker
All right, buddy, let's wrap this up. I'm like staying awake. Yeah. Do you have any last words in this four hour and a half podcast? Well, this was our impromptu podcast of us talking about our failed dickhead. Probably the podcast of dickhead. Honestly, I think we kind of laid it all out for the first time.
04:14:00
Speaker
and its entirety with spoilers and everything else, you can extrapolate the entire film. And, you know, I don't know how this will work as a podcast because we're talking about something we know about that no one else does. Yeah, contextually, no one has any idea. No one has any idea, but
04:14:27
Speaker
Stay tuned. $16.99. Dickhead on stream. I'll sign it to you right now. You send me some money. You get it right now. We don't have the tip or anything done, but you get it. All right, buddy. I think that wraps up Twin Shadows podcast, whatever the hell this number is.
04:14:53
Speaker
Whenever you got your mouse ready to hit that stop button. Well, I just want to say one last thing buddy, you know I'm glad I'm doing this journey with you and We'll see what happens man, we'll see what happens it's gonna be exciting it's probably gonna be heartbreaking and
04:15:14
Speaker
Oh, it's gonna be heart-wrenching because I think a lot of people aren't gonna just recognize right off the bat what it is that they're seeing. Yeah, and I mean, you made those comparisons to like Once Upon a Time and Mandy, and certainly we're doing that with Halloween, but I would hope that we're at least
04:15:43
Speaker
adding something new to, to those kinds of characters. And, you know, hopefully, hopefully people could see the, the love and dedication we've put into it. And I love the dedication we put into this podcast. Yeah. I mean, I'll say this last few words and then send us out, man. Send us out buddy.
04:16:13
Speaker
I'm going to send this out with a few drunken words from a drunken guy. It doesn't really matter how hard you try, as long as you know that you put it in. And I think that's one thing that separates the amateur filmmakers from the professional filmmakers.
04:16:42
Speaker
The amateurs just do things because they're cool and pretty. The professionals do things because there's a reason behind it. And I want to hopefully distinguish myself and ourselves as the professionals that we are.
04:17:05
Speaker
Holy shit. Oh, I'm so professional. I am drunk as shit during a four and a half hour podcast about nonsense. But it's not easy to make a movie. In fact, if any movie ever comes out, it's a miracle. Even Beverly Hills Chihuahua 3 or whatever. But
04:17:32
Speaker
When it comes to a film like Dickhead, I mean, I just hope, like, well, if anyone actually listened to this whole podcast, like, I'd hope you'd have some level of excitement trying to see what we kind of put together. And that once that we have it ready and in a condition that we are happy with,
04:17:58
Speaker
You will just be completely blown away that these two loser assholes were able to put together this fucking beautiful little project because I I mean, it's there. I don't give a shit how close we are to the story. It's in the edit. I don't give a shit what anyone says. It's there.
04:18:26
Speaker
All of Caravan's actions and reactions are there. They're in the goddamn story. We put it in there. It's there. Like, I don't know how else to say that, that it's, that it's there, right? Like, other than like being like, yes, Richard is worse than Tom.
04:18:52
Speaker
Like maybe you should wear a t-shirt that says that, but it's like, no, no, right? It is important that they wear the same thing. They essentially wear the same thing. Yeah. That's all I got. It's called cuts. I'm like, I can barely hear my eyes open. Cut. Cut.